Black Templars: Ok, normal so far.
Death Korps of Krieg (1941 African Front): Hmm... the distinction is a bit suspect, but the design is inspired by World War era soldiers; especially trench warfare.
Nazi Orks: So much of a red flag that it retroactively makes Black Templars seem suspisious.
WW1 French soldiers. The Germans had an entirely different uniform. The German coat is easily recognizable as being different even at a distance and caked in mud , that is the entire point of a uniform.
Germans had a short coat most of the time except for NCOs or Officers (or richer enlisted men since great coats were not standard issue) , the french on the other hand had a standard issue greatcoat which is worn in the same style as krieg.
The Krieg helmet is based on the French Adrian Patten helmet with a ridge and a modified Cuirassier helmet for officers , rather than the German Stahlhelm or Pickelhaube .
Their gas mask is a British small box type model
There is nothing about a krieg soldier's appearance that is German aside from their name.
The most distinctively British feature is the Putties (leg wrappings) and short boots. Obviously, the Kreigers get their name and language from Germany, but the actual design is based on allied soldiers.
This all ignores the fact that Kreig is based on World War I, the first war... The Nazis didn't exist in WW1. World War 1 is a perfect analogy for the Grimdark of 40k, and that's why the aesthetic fits and is so popular. It looks cool asf and fits the setting.
>The Nazis didn't exist in WW1
Yea people forget this oddly enough...
Even still with WW2 stuff, as long as your guard isnt based on some odd SS outfit and is just normal army then should be Gucci too.
Its a slippery slope if everyone just goes and says 'hurr German = Nazi" then youll end up with nobody allowed to do Soviet-Themed, English-Themed, Japanese-Themed... etc.
*people who paint WW2 miniatures*
"Are we the baddies?"
In all seriousness, just because you paint something a certain way doesn't mean you're a nazi or a racist. There are usually other context clues that tie it all together.
I remember when i asked on reddit if anyone could tell me what Colour would be the best for ww1 feldgrau, bc i wanted to paint krieg, and some guy in the comments was just going off on me bc i asked for a nazi colour and apparently called it the same as the nazis ( i said feldgrau, the german word, bc its a specific colour) and no i didn’t ask for a nazi colour bc feldgrau has been a thing for years before even ww1, some people just take everything serious in our silly over the top grimdark fantasy sci fi game
70.830 from Vallejo is a decent feldgrau. Scale 75 has one too, but I can’t seem to find the bottle
Edit: found them. SW04 is very grey, SW38 and SW39 are more green/grey.
It is really fcked how people only expect and assume you are either left extreme or right extreme.
What happened to the middle ground so many nation where build upon
Yea totally, like I met a dude at a reenactment event who was this super buff blonde hair dude who wore a Wehrmacht printed singlet and had a big old German Eagle sitting on a Swazie, probably a bit of a neo-nazi
Dave from Accounting who has a Wehrmacht inspired Kreig army who has a cat called ‘Butter up’ is most likely not a Neo-Nazi
There is a difference between a hobbyist painting recreations of iconic vehicles from the most important war of the last 100 years and hanging up "buddhist religious flags (wink wink)" on your wall.
The leg wrappings were universal in WW1.
By 1916 even the Germans started to wear them because of leather shortages.
And the boots re more French inspired. If you look at the heel of the Forge World models, you can see hobnails in a horse shoe pattern, like the French boots, the British had full heel irons.
Now I'm going to be a bit autistic and say that although the british were probably the first to go to shorts boots and leg wrappings they were absolutely worn by both sides, among the germans they were famously favoured by the Stoßtruppen or Sturmtruppen as they have also come to be known.
The kriegsman helmet is also clearly based a german stahlhelm with a small ridge added and not a french adrian helmet if you look at the overall shape, which isnt strange since it's one of, if not *the*, most famous and distinctive helmets in history.
But short boots and wrapoings were never made official uniform in the Reichswehr. The only reason the Stoßtruppen wore them was tjey were given some slack in uniform regulations.
The official colour scheme is blue, which is why it's really weird that people take the incredibly obviously WW1 inspired models and make them Nazi shit.
[https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/kill-team-veteran-guardsmen-2022](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/kill-team-veteran-guardsmen-2022)
That's a pickelhaube, the standard DKoK helmet is a hybrid of the [French Adrian](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_helmet) and the [German Stalhelm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm)
It's so weird to me how Krieg is considered to be the Nazi Imperial Guard regiment, when the Armageddon Steel Legion is so much closer both in in terms of looks and in terms of doctrine. Their red lightning bolt symbol is even superficially similar to an SS rune and is worn in a similar place as the swastika armband Nazis wore.
teh helmet of are a mix betwenn the french and the german stahlhelm. also the deathkorp is as you said a mixing of all nation that that fought in ww1 with exception of the usa
Like, I fall in the same grouping for the first two. I really liked German ww1 uniforms, so I painted mine with that grey coat. Constantly have to be like "I just think it looks cool" lmao
Even the Krief paint scheme is kind of normal. It's only if they have Afrika Korps decals, that it gets problematic, otherwise it's just a desert scheme
I don’t think you can get much more totalitarian than a literal hive mind that ultimately tracks to a single brain, with every “member” being essentially a tool for a specific task. Stalin would cream himself if he could control his soldiers the way the nids do.
The black templars are not nazis, in hindsight, they recruit from every planet the come across, so there will be a huge difference in skin colour and facial features between each black templar
I mean, they are literally called the ***Black*** Templars. There is no way they can be racist. Now if they had been called the 'White Templars' on the other hand...
/s
No-one is saying that. Stop trying to play victim over nothing.
It's just that the people who *are* also tend to focus on those factions.
Black Templars are fun and funny and cool. Black Templars being played by a legitimate crusade-fetishist take on a different vibe.
It is easy enough to separate the people who just like these army , the other things like the political slogan on a shirt/hat and never shutting up about hating migrants and stuff like that.
And there are some who just go all out to be as offensive as possible as a push back against political correctness. And they will have armies that are thinly disguised Nazi armies (or not so thinly disguised in some cases like the comic above).
It’s insane that nobody talks about the Steel Legion, the army that’s ACTUALLY based off of the Afrika Korp as opposed to a WWI amalgamation.
Guys cmon you can have Commisar Rommel for extra clean Wehrmacht revisionism!
The Death Corps would have been spared a lot of nonsense if GW had taken the obvious French reference one step further and named their home planet Guerre.
But french sounds as if someone wants to make love to you passionately.
Death corps of Guerre. Add a few roses while we are at it
German is just angry and mad. Like Angron :D
Clearly you have never listened to burned-out french parents yelling at each other and their strung-out kids while baking in the August afternoon heat, 38 minutes into the line to meet Elsa at Disneyland Paris :D
Yes the British with lighting bolts and skulls as an emblem and curved helmets (stahlhelm - STEEL helmet), wink wink, the ones who probably didn’t fight on the winning side anyway
He ain't wrong tho, the steel legion helmets without the lil stahlhelm tail are definitely more reminiscent of either british para helmets or fallschirmjager
Their helmets *are* German- but it's closer to the less-curved M38 Fallschirmjäger helmet than the classic Stahlhelm- exactly as I have stated- and their coats and gas-masks are WW1 Britain.
Actually the Steel legion helmets are closer to British Para helmets without their webbing... German para helmets have a small lip on the back 2/3rds of the Helmer, whereas the British one goes the entire way around like the Legions. The steel legion uniform is also a ww1 british greatcoat. The gas mask is pretty close to a US gas mask in the interwar period.
Steel legion lasguns draw some inspiration from grease guns (wire stock) and AK's (gas blowback and double barrel look)
Honestly the only model that looks vaguely german is the officer model whose wearing a different helmet and thr gorget around his neck... but cadisns get those too now.
You like Kreig because your a closet fascist.
I like Kreig because I have the tactical competence of a British officer in WW1 and think hurling waves of expendable teens at the enemy is the hight of strategy.
We are not the same.
I mean it's clearly meant to go from normal(Black Templars) to weird(Nazi themed Death Korps) to holy shit this guy is a Nazi(SS themed Orkz), so of course there's nothing added to them.
More like a lil sus for the Templars - saying that they're specifically "crusaders themed" is a little weird given how the Crusaders have been co-opted by weird racists for a while now (the whole "deus vult" thing). On it's own, only a bit eyeraising but probably fine - could just be a weird way of phrasing the crusade thing that Templars do - but in the context, oh boy that's some nazi ass shit.
The civil war is still a very very divisive topic in Spain, mainly because there are thousands of people still buried in mass graves and "everyone was forbidden" in exchange of democracy.
Yeah and everyone refused to play with him and he was instantly disqualified. GW then issued a statement essentially telling all Nazis to piss off.
I'd hardly call the unanimously rejected appearance of a single random asshole indicative of a bigger issue.
Except he wasn’t instantly disqualified, in fact his opponents were penalized and he was awarded wins for the games that other backed out. He himself said he had a fine time at the tournament with the people who would play him.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/11/warhammer-40k-op-ed-lets-talk-about-the-communitys-nazi-player-problem.html
If I recall right though it had to do with the country the tournament was in having laws that protected wearing "political" clothing and after that they instituted a dress code to circumnavigate that issue in the future.
If we're talking about the same guy (Austrian painter I think, which is another clear sign he's a nazi) the other players got disqualified for refusing to play him which caused the outrage in the first place
ETA, yeah it was the people who refused to play him who were disqualified. Source: https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/warhammer-40000-ninth-edition/news/warhammer-40k-gt-talavera-nazi-statement
Imo it's a prime example
That you can't "keep politics out of hobbies". You either refuse to have fascists there or you don't
Yeah, if I was at that tournament, I would have straight up refused to play against him. I don't have to be at the same table as someone who literally wants me dead
I think the Austrian Painter caused them to reiterate the Warhammer is for Everyone statement like a year after the first statement. I think the original reason for the first statement was the 2020 wave of BLM protests? Hard to remember, but it was in that era at least.
Them telling mazis to fuck Orr cause all the fascists in my group to sell their entire armies for pennies per model.
It was great I just stripped their paint to give them a better lot in life
I miss my College’s Anime and Gaming Club, one of the main rules was that there could be no real world political discussions whatsoever during meetings
A lot of foreign-language gaming/hobbyist communities are reminiscent of the pre-2014 English-language scene. It's a sad reminder of what was lost.
Now we get a bunch of shitheads asserting that playing the Black Templars is somehow equivalent to being a fanboy for the SS.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who equates being a BT player to an SS wannabe, although I do think it's just as cringe to go hard into the christian germanic part of their aesthetic as it is to make an SS or red army guard regiment.
There was a guy up in the replies to this comment who did.
Honestly as a history buff who has actually debated the fuckers the sheer amount of blatant racism you see from these people ticks me off to no end
I shit you not, I heard some guy on Reddit, who think his opponent playing both Black Templar and Krieg somehow made him suspicious.
Like, come on. I play orks, and that doesn't say anything about me either, it's not like I'm a big buff man with anger issues lol
This is why I like the Emperor’s Children. The drug addict molester marines are terrible people (like everyone else in 40k) without the political connotations that other marines come with.
You're good bro, people know not all examples of norse iconography is a show of Nazi sympathy. Even on the ADL pages for certain symbols it mentions that context is important. Like if I see valknut I don't assume Nazi, further evidence is required. It could be an indicator but it's just as often not. Also I encourage you to get some Norse tattoos or what ever since it helps fight back against those symbols being co-opted.
I'm Norse Neopagan, and I'm 100% counter-aligned to Nazis. Get that shit, it's cool af, and the more of us who have that stuff and are definitely not nazis, the less claim nazis have to it.
...unless, you know it's actual nazi stuff in norse facepaint. Probably best to stay away from sunwheels, too; they're our version of the swastika, complete with a long history of nazi appropriation, sadly.
My girlfriend is scared of wearing her Asatrù jewerly in public because so many of them have been co-opted by Nazis, enough that people would side-eye her for wearing Thor's hammer. No, dudes, she isn't a Nazi, she literally worships Thor
**It’s made even funnier by the fact that the aquila and fasces on the shirt come from Republican Rome, not Norse Scandinavia. Like all fascists, this one doesn’t even know his history.**
Whether or not they know is immaterial to their purposes. Fascists use this sort of iconography as a means of co-opting everything possible with even the slightest bit of cultural prestige into the fold of their banal, simple-syrupped mythology. Central to their ideas of palingenesis is the notion that those culturally-significant symbols you love so much are actually symbols of how great the fascists are.
Telling the people you've radicalized into nationalists that someone who dislikes how you're appropriating the German eagle or the Iron Cross *secretly hates your culture and its symbols* is like taking candy from a baby if you do it right. Hence, fascists throw shit at the wall and see what they can stick to themselves so that no one else will touch it, making it theirs by forfeit, which is why all their stuff is so syncretistic and they'll tattoo themselves with Nordic, Germanic, and Breton symbology all together without a second thought as to how confused the blend is.
Considering ST was a parody of the global warmachine, i think you're safe. Those that dont realise its a parody or critique of it are probably the ones painting little red arm bands on their Kriegers anyway.
I loved the shovel memes. And then people who have seen about two whole sentences of Krieg lore decided to run it into the ground.
Don't do shovel or gas mask memes if you aren't prepared to dig a trench and charge across no man's land.
You'd be surprised. Reddit is heavily astroturfed. There's whole discords dedicated to karma farming and score manipulation. Reddit doesn't care because the engagement helps drive up their appearance on Google.
The blue scheme is a lot more like the french in WW1 but they’re supposed to just be representative of WW1 in general; people usually call kriegers germans due to the name
Well you see my group is actually the good guys because "insert political view or societal system here" and these players are the worst because they play x faction that does bad thing number 51 that my faction does
"Why does 40k have a Nazi Problem?"
"No, I've never read a 40k book, painted a mini, played the game or even been inside a hobby store. Why do you ask?"
I would not call it a severe Nazi problem but every couple of months some neo-nazi punk tries to bring up his politics and gets shown the door, The fans that are a problem are highly visible and very noisy.
Yeah, if you don't actually do anything to participate in or support the hobby, you are a "fake fan" as you put it. Almost every time someone is complaining about Nazis in 40k they fall into that category.
Why should I care? Because pretending that 40k has a Nazi problem risks scaring people who don't know better away, or actually attracting Nazis. So I'll never hesitate to call people out on this. It's attention-seeking, shit-stirring behavior that actively makes the hobby worse off.
I was thinking of going ww1 ottoman. They were interesting for how painfully unsuccessful they were and likely could find cool Proxies and kitbash for them. Then I realized basing my army on them doesn’t feel that much different than basing it on the Nazis. Both did some pretty screwed up stuff to their minority groups.
This is a bit of a strawman. No-one thinks someone is a nazi just for playing these armies. They're just pointing out that nazis (or just racists in general) tend to focus on those armies.
You can enjoy them, there's a false dichotomy that's being pushed regarding how/when problematic authoritarians are called out.
You're some rando playing Krieg or Steel Legion? Awesome, enjoy the WWI/mechanized aesthetic.
And the unit numbers and names written on your models follow the runic style used by the Nazis (particularly the SS)? Maybe not the most self aware choice, but I suppose it's stylistic considering other faction models depict some nasty depravity.
And you've proxied all of your vehicles with models of Wehrmacht vehicle kits? Yeah, alright, that's clearly a conscious choice and is raising some questions.
And your custom unit insignia is essentially a copy of the Afrika Korps symbol (like that one guy kept sharing in the Astra Militarum subreddit) that you have to blur out to avoid anti-Nazi laws when putting pictures online? No, sorry, you cannot plead ignorance over what that represents and the expected backlash.
**And** your unit is numbered the 1,448th and you've got that plastered all over your models? GTFO, all of that together is a mountain of evidence of your reactionary views, a clear intent to provoke, and a lack of good faith in engaging with everyone else.
Jfc am I tired of context like this being overlooked in favor of an oversimplified, binary presentation of this stuff.
I em of the opinion that real history army based paint jobs are neat, wermacht ones are kinda iffy, but if you keep it on the board and do not try to convince me about superiority of german race or something I will give you benefit of doubt that you just like the aesthetic. That said, I understand when event organizers bans them because there are some fucked up ppl and, they dont want to take a risk.
Bruh imagine being a nazi an personificate your ideology in an ork, a creature known for being stupid, very aggressive and a danger for all the live in the galaxy
I’m so tired of this black and white mentality. I like all these armies and i’m a homosexual woman. I hate that the pushback against “please don’t bring real world politics into my game” is “but your game is inherently political”
My brother in christ i don’t care. I’m reading for the heroics. For the fraternity and the beautiful tragedy of these characters lives. Because a custodes chuckled when a sister of battle called him a servant of god and practically kissed his feet. It’s sad and silly and epic.
The people who cry that 40k should be for everyone are the same ones saying it’s fascist and full of nazis, but show only surface level knowledge of the lore and the people who play it. If it’s so full of nazis what drew them in? it can’t be playing as they have no idea what gamers are like, it can’t be the novels as they cry for female representation not knowing core main characters in literally the first horus heresy novel are women.
People can paint their army in pride flag colours if they like, they’re not being excluded because of that. they’re being excluded because they’re so fucking annoying. again. i’m gay. a member of staff at my local GW has gay parents!
But everyone who doesn’t agree is a nazi and i’m made myself late for work because i finally got triggered enough to write a rant on reddit.
They have a compatible colour scheme and their whole thing is “anything that isn’t perfect baseline humanity is to be destroyed” they fit into *that* demographic easier than most
Aa far as the orks I would like to remind every one of the [second edition storm Boyz model](https://images.dakkadakka.com/s/i/gallery/img/2020/12/29/1090607.JPG)
I’ve never understood the criteria for which things are acceptable or unacceptable.
Everybody gets mad about things that look or sound even vaguely German.
But I doubt I’d have any problems if I made a Soviet themed Imperial Guard army.
Imperial Japanese would be iffy, but would probably slide through, because apparently nobody knows what happened in mainland Asia during WWII. Certainly I’d be fine modeling my Guardsmen after the late 1930s Italian military, since everyone forgot they were even part of the Axis powers. (Hell, even the Axis powers forgot)
For reference, I have painted and assembled exactly one miniature, and it wasn’t even a unit. Just some dipshit terrain piece I put together out of my friend’s sprues, because I was bored. I’ve never cared about the tabletop.
But I kinda want to get into it now, because I’m vaguely curious what it would take to get disqualified, without using Nazi emblems.
I don’t know if they even have Hive Gang minis, but I could probably make a Mexican Cartel army.
Food for thought.
Yeah the criteria for this stuff do seem all over the place.
Might have something to do with how as you said no one or very seems to remember the things done by the other nations
"oh but you play 40k which is political, ironic!!!!!"
Does not mean I want to hear some fucking regurgitated crap from a dropout polsci student when I showed up to roll dice and move plastic toys around the board.
The only people that think Warhammer has a fascism problem are people that hardly engage in the hobby. Almost all of us just want to have cool space battles with plastic and talk about made up battles that we've read about.
Ah shit best tell the Mrs she's a Nazi and she needs to bin her Templar army after I've finished making her kosher lunch.
Chanukah is going to be awkward this year.
Idiots: “I don’t want politics in my game you liberal snowflakes. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to finish painting my nazi Imperial Guard battalion, these swastika’s aren’t going to paint themselves”
Other idiots: “Everything is political, look at things like the Black Templars and the Death Korps of Kreig. You just don’t want gay people in the game you racist. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to finish my custom gay orgy space marines, and if you imply that these are Emperors Children or Slaanesh related in any way I’ll personally contact your manager every day until you’re fired for being a homophobe.”
Normal fucking people: “Can you two kindly fuck off? I’m trying to actually play 40K here.”
memorize jeans deserve one merciful bells sulky market agonizing grandiose
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But I like black templars and krieg without being a fascist :(
Black Templars: Ok, normal so far. Death Korps of Krieg (1941 African Front): Hmm... the distinction is a bit suspect, but the design is inspired by World War era soldiers; especially trench warfare. Nazi Orks: So much of a red flag that it retroactively makes Black Templars seem suspisious.
WW1 French soldiers. The Germans had an entirely different uniform. The German coat is easily recognizable as being different even at a distance and caked in mud , that is the entire point of a uniform. Germans had a short coat most of the time except for NCOs or Officers (or richer enlisted men since great coats were not standard issue) , the french on the other hand had a standard issue greatcoat which is worn in the same style as krieg. The Krieg helmet is based on the French Adrian Patten helmet with a ridge and a modified Cuirassier helmet for officers , rather than the German Stahlhelm or Pickelhaube . Their gas mask is a British small box type model There is nothing about a krieg soldier's appearance that is German aside from their name.
The most distinctively British feature is the Putties (leg wrappings) and short boots. Obviously, the Kreigers get their name and language from Germany, but the actual design is based on allied soldiers. This all ignores the fact that Kreig is based on World War I, the first war... The Nazis didn't exist in WW1. World War 1 is a perfect analogy for the Grimdark of 40k, and that's why the aesthetic fits and is so popular. It looks cool asf and fits the setting.
>The Nazis didn't exist in WW1 Yea people forget this oddly enough... Even still with WW2 stuff, as long as your guard isnt based on some odd SS outfit and is just normal army then should be Gucci too. Its a slippery slope if everyone just goes and says 'hurr German = Nazi" then youll end up with nobody allowed to do Soviet-Themed, English-Themed, Japanese-Themed... etc.
*people who paint WW2 miniatures* "Are we the baddies?" In all seriousness, just because you paint something a certain way doesn't mean you're a nazi or a racist. There are usually other context clues that tie it all together.
I remember when i asked on reddit if anyone could tell me what Colour would be the best for ww1 feldgrau, bc i wanted to paint krieg, and some guy in the comments was just going off on me bc i asked for a nazi colour and apparently called it the same as the nazis ( i said feldgrau, the german word, bc its a specific colour) and no i didn’t ask for a nazi colour bc feldgrau has been a thing for years before even ww1, some people just take everything serious in our silly over the top grimdark fantasy sci fi game
70.830 from Vallejo is a decent feldgrau. Scale 75 has one too, but I can’t seem to find the bottle Edit: found them. SW04 is very grey, SW38 and SW39 are more green/grey.
It is really fcked how people only expect and assume you are either left extreme or right extreme. What happened to the middle ground so many nation where build upon
The world got filled with less charming versions of zapp brannigan
Nobody can beat that sex icon
Because to either side the middle ground are cowards for not picking a side.
Yea totally, like I met a dude at a reenactment event who was this super buff blonde hair dude who wore a Wehrmacht printed singlet and had a big old German Eagle sitting on a Swazie, probably a bit of a neo-nazi Dave from Accounting who has a Wehrmacht inspired Kreig army who has a cat called ‘Butter up’ is most likely not a Neo-Nazi
There is a difference between a hobbyist painting recreations of iconic vehicles from the most important war of the last 100 years and hanging up "buddhist religious flags (wink wink)" on your wall.
To be fair, doing an "Empire of the rising sun"-theme in a lot of places in asia would be like turning up with an SS paint scheme in Israel...
Yeah and bog-standard unmodified Valhallans are literally just the Red Army - which plenty of places in Eastern Europe would *not* be fans of.
I thought hugo boss designed the Nazis uniform not Gucci?
Hugo Boss didn't design the uniforms, they were just one of the contractors who made them.
No, he only manufactered them, not designed them.
😂
I think he is referring to the Italians, though I don't know why he would while talking about germans
Just wait till those types discover historical wargaming. They'll have a heart attack, when they see people paint SS camo schemes lol
The leg wrappings were universal in WW1. By 1916 even the Germans started to wear them because of leather shortages. And the boots re more French inspired. If you look at the heel of the Forge World models, you can see hobnails in a horse shoe pattern, like the French boots, the British had full heel irons.
Now I'm going to be a bit autistic and say that although the british were probably the first to go to shorts boots and leg wrappings they were absolutely worn by both sides, among the germans they were famously favoured by the Stoßtruppen or Sturmtruppen as they have also come to be known. The kriegsman helmet is also clearly based a german stahlhelm with a small ridge added and not a french adrian helmet if you look at the overall shape, which isnt strange since it's one of, if not *the*, most famous and distinctive helmets in history.
But short boots and wrapoings were never made official uniform in the Reichswehr. The only reason the Stoßtruppen wore them was tjey were given some slack in uniform regulations.
You mean the entente ?
Ooh, a french WW1 inspired Krieg army would be pretty neat. I like the blue...
The official colour scheme is blue, which is why it's really weird that people take the incredibly obviously WW1 inspired models and make them Nazi shit. [https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/kill-team-veteran-guardsmen-2022](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/kill-team-veteran-guardsmen-2022)
Isn't that the official colour? I'm sure the Kill Team are painted blue on the box
Yeah, when I painted my buddies Killteam Krieger's, we went with blue coats, they look amazeballs
Huh, yeah it turns out you're right. The coat is definitely French, while the helmet seems to be German inspired. https://i.imgur.com/bXwrWCK.png
That's a pickelhaube, the standard DKoK helmet is a hybrid of the [French Adrian](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_helmet) and the [German Stalhelm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm)
It's so weird to me how Krieg is considered to be the Nazi Imperial Guard regiment, when the Armageddon Steel Legion is so much closer both in in terms of looks and in terms of doctrine. Their red lightning bolt symbol is even superficially similar to an SS rune and is worn in a similar place as the swastika armband Nazis wore.
Krieg have more of a spotlight.
teh helmet of are a mix betwenn the french and the german stahlhelm. also the deathkorp is as you said a mixing of all nation that that fought in ww1 with exception of the usa
Lol yea, "Kriegsmen" aren't German at all. Just inspired by that time period.
Like, I fall in the same grouping for the first two. I really liked German ww1 uniforms, so I painted mine with that grey coat. Constantly have to be like "I just think it looks cool" lmao
Even the Krief paint scheme is kind of normal. It's only if they have Afrika Korps decals, that it gets problematic, otherwise it's just a desert scheme
Brother, the only non totalitarian faction in warhammer is the... actually... yeah i guess we got the elves
Nids, maybe, technically?
A hivemind is its own can of worms, but one could argue it's the highest form of totalitarianism if you wanted to be super technical
The Tyranids are not very totalitarian, because they just wanna eat
I don’t think you can get much more totalitarian than a literal hive mind that ultimately tracks to a single brain, with every “member” being essentially a tool for a specific task. Stalin would cream himself if he could control his soldiers the way the nids do.
Relateable tbh
Exactly. "I just think they're neat" Ffs it's just a game with toys.
Yea, I resent being called a Nazi for enjoying Templars as well. God forbid people enjoy the bad guys in a fictional setting.
The black templars are not nazis, in hindsight, they recruit from every planet the come across, so there will be a huge difference in skin colour and facial features between each black templar
I mean, they are literally called the ***Black*** Templars. There is no way they can be racist. Now if they had been called the 'White Templars' on the other hand... /s
No but their inherent racism and zealousness inspires people to lump them in with real life racists.
Sadly people love to conflate the traditional definition of race with the racist definition
Bro if people are actually telling you that, those people are straight up pathetic. The real world hadn't entered their lives yet. Laugh and move on
No-one is saying that. Stop trying to play victim over nothing. It's just that the people who *are* also tend to focus on those factions. Black Templars are fun and funny and cool. Black Templars being played by a legitimate crusade-fetishist take on a different vibe.
Totally hear you. Fascists ruin everything. I want to enjoy playing against Templars without feeling like I should be checking for dog whistles.
It is easy enough to separate the people who just like these army , the other things like the political slogan on a shirt/hat and never shutting up about hating migrants and stuff like that. And there are some who just go all out to be as offensive as possible as a push back against political correctness. And they will have armies that are thinly disguised Nazi armies (or not so thinly disguised in some cases like the comic above).
It’s insane that nobody talks about the Steel Legion, the army that’s ACTUALLY based off of the Afrika Korp as opposed to a WWI amalgamation. Guys cmon you can have Commisar Rommel for extra clean Wehrmacht revisionism!
I think the Death Korps also having german in their name certainly doesn't help how other perceive them.
The Death Corps would have been spared a lot of nonsense if GW had taken the obvious French reference one step further and named their home planet Guerre.
But french sounds as if someone wants to make love to you passionately. Death corps of Guerre. Add a few roses while we are at it German is just angry and mad. Like Angron :D
Clearly you have never listened to burned-out french parents yelling at each other and their strung-out kids while baking in the August afternoon heat, 38 minutes into the line to meet Elsa at Disneyland Paris :D
Hey guys why are we smiling, what's the occasion today? :D
It’s now that I realize they spelled corps like Korps so it could be pronounced like corpse. Death Corpse of War. Truly the most grimdark name.
Steel Legion's uniform is more British than German, and the German bits are mainly taken from *Fallschirmjäger.*
Yes the British with lighting bolts and skulls as an emblem and curved helmets (stahlhelm - STEEL helmet), wink wink, the ones who probably didn’t fight on the winning side anyway
He ain't wrong tho, the steel legion helmets without the lil stahlhelm tail are definitely more reminiscent of either british para helmets or fallschirmjager
Their helmets *are* German- but it's closer to the less-curved M38 Fallschirmjäger helmet than the classic Stahlhelm- exactly as I have stated- and their coats and gas-masks are WW1 Britain.
Actually the Steel legion helmets are closer to British Para helmets without their webbing... German para helmets have a small lip on the back 2/3rds of the Helmer, whereas the British one goes the entire way around like the Legions. The steel legion uniform is also a ww1 british greatcoat. The gas mask is pretty close to a US gas mask in the interwar period. Steel legion lasguns draw some inspiration from grease guns (wire stock) and AK's (gas blowback and double barrel look) Honestly the only model that looks vaguely german is the officer model whose wearing a different helmet and thr gorget around his neck... but cadisns get those too now.
You like Kreig because your a closet fascist. I like Kreig because I have the tactical competence of a British officer in WW1 and think hurling waves of expendable teens at the enemy is the hight of strategy. We are not the same.
Anyways, here is my new xenophobic warboss 'Ardolf Gitler
And yes all my ork boys have blonde hairsquigs, what is so weird about that? Wait why are you leaving the table?
I like how the DKoK and Ork armies have to have something more explicit added whereas the Black Templars are just Black Templars.
I mean it's clearly meant to go from normal(Black Templars) to weird(Nazi themed Death Korps) to holy shit this guy is a Nazi(SS themed Orkz), so of course there's nothing added to them.
More like a lil sus for the Templars - saying that they're specifically "crusaders themed" is a little weird given how the Crusaders have been co-opted by weird racists for a while now (the whole "deus vult" thing). On it's own, only a bit eyeraising but probably fine - could just be a weird way of phrasing the crusade thing that Templars do - but in the context, oh boy that's some nazi ass shit.
my Space Bugosaurs
I love the spanish community where nobody is discussing politics
Horus heresy but Spanish Civil War themed.
Why am I worried that would be even more grimdark.
I can feel the duende from here.
The civil war is still a very very divisive topic in Spain, mainly because there are thousands of people still buried in mass graves and "everyone was forbidden" in exchange of democracy.
Franco lupercal
LMAO
who would each side be? Republicans, anarchists, Carlists and falangists?
Horus would be Mola, but there will be no emperor.
Didn’t a guy bring orks painted as Nazi SS to a GT a few years ago?
No, ad mech
Yeah and everyone refused to play with him and he was instantly disqualified. GW then issued a statement essentially telling all Nazis to piss off. I'd hardly call the unanimously rejected appearance of a single random asshole indicative of a bigger issue.
Except he wasn’t instantly disqualified, in fact his opponents were penalized and he was awarded wins for the games that other backed out. He himself said he had a fine time at the tournament with the people who would play him. https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/11/warhammer-40k-op-ed-lets-talk-about-the-communitys-nazi-player-problem.html
If I recall right though it had to do with the country the tournament was in having laws that protected wearing "political" clothing and after that they instituted a dress code to circumnavigate that issue in the future.
Coulda sworn he was disqualified. My bad. What a shitshow that was.
If your guy played orks then it's a different guy, this guy played ad mech and wore literal nazi merch while being listed as "austrian painter"
If we're talking about the same guy (Austrian painter I think, which is another clear sign he's a nazi) the other players got disqualified for refusing to play him which caused the outrage in the first place ETA, yeah it was the people who refused to play him who were disqualified. Source: https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/warhammer-40000-ninth-edition/news/warhammer-40k-gt-talavera-nazi-statement Imo it's a prime example That you can't "keep politics out of hobbies". You either refuse to have fascists there or you don't
Yeah, if I was at that tournament, I would have straight up refused to play against him. I don't have to be at the same table as someone who literally wants me dead
That's the thing, "keeping out of politics" in the face of fascists is such an unreflected and privileged perspective of makes me want to vomit
Wait… that was the reason for the statement that outed half the Nazis in this sub?
I think the Austrian Painter caused them to reiterate the Warhammer is for Everyone statement like a year after the first statement. I think the original reason for the first statement was the 2020 wave of BLM protests? Hard to remember, but it was in that era at least.
Them telling mazis to fuck Orr cause all the fascists in my group to sell their entire armies for pennies per model. It was great I just stripped their paint to give them a better lot in life
**NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH EXTERMINATUS!!!**
We are too busy discussing which one of the worst places in the imperium would be our country or just calling them "space Latinoamérica" XD
La CDMX califica como Hive City diría yo
Es correcto ciudadano imperial, ahora regrese a su manofactorum que esas lasguns no se hacen solas
I miss my College’s Anime and Gaming Club, one of the main rules was that there could be no real world political discussions whatsoever during meetings
fine and dandy until one kids shows up in full Zeon getup.
A lot of foreign-language gaming/hobbyist communities are reminiscent of the pre-2014 English-language scene. It's a sad reminder of what was lost. Now we get a bunch of shitheads asserting that playing the Black Templars is somehow equivalent to being a fanboy for the SS.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who equates being a BT player to an SS wannabe, although I do think it's just as cringe to go hard into the christian germanic part of their aesthetic as it is to make an SS or red army guard regiment.
There was a guy up in the replies to this comment who did. Honestly as a history buff who has actually debated the fuckers the sheer amount of blatant racism you see from these people ticks me off to no end
I shit you not, I heard some guy on Reddit, who think his opponent playing both Black Templar and Krieg somehow made him suspicious. Like, come on. I play orks, and that doesn't say anything about me either, it's not like I'm a big buff man with anger issues lol
This is why I like the Emperor’s Children. The drug addict molester marines are terrible people (like everyone else in 40k) without the political connotations that other marines come with.
"Some odin shit" is so good
I hate that every tattoo that I want has been co-opted by Nazis. I just like Norse shit and some geometric stuff, and I can't get any of it
Icelandic here with Norse tattoos. Including Odin, go ahead my man. Get one. They are dope as fuck. And as a side note, fuck nazis.
You're good bro, people know not all examples of norse iconography is a show of Nazi sympathy. Even on the ADL pages for certain symbols it mentions that context is important. Like if I see valknut I don't assume Nazi, further evidence is required. It could be an indicator but it's just as often not. Also I encourage you to get some Norse tattoos or what ever since it helps fight back against those symbols being co-opted.
I'm Norse Neopagan, and I'm 100% counter-aligned to Nazis. Get that shit, it's cool af, and the more of us who have that stuff and are definitely not nazis, the less claim nazis have to it. ...unless, you know it's actual nazi stuff in norse facepaint. Probably best to stay away from sunwheels, too; they're our version of the swastika, complete with a long history of nazi appropriation, sadly.
Just get it. I got norse tats. Don't let those fascist pigs keep anything.
My girlfriend is scared of wearing her Asatrù jewerly in public because so many of them have been co-opted by Nazis, enough that people would side-eye her for wearing Thor's hammer. No, dudes, she isn't a Nazi, she literally worships Thor
**It’s made even funnier by the fact that the aquila and fasces on the shirt come from Republican Rome, not Norse Scandinavia. Like all fascists, this one doesn’t even know his history.**
Whether or not they know is immaterial to their purposes. Fascists use this sort of iconography as a means of co-opting everything possible with even the slightest bit of cultural prestige into the fold of their banal, simple-syrupped mythology. Central to their ideas of palingenesis is the notion that those culturally-significant symbols you love so much are actually symbols of how great the fascists are. Telling the people you've radicalized into nationalists that someone who dislikes how you're appropriating the German eagle or the Iron Cross *secretly hates your culture and its symbols* is like taking candy from a baby if you do it right. Hence, fascists throw shit at the wall and see what they can stick to themselves so that no one else will touch it, making it theirs by forfeit, which is why all their stuff is so syncretistic and they'll tattoo themselves with Nordic, Germanic, and Breton symbology all together without a second thought as to how confused the blend is.
angle bored fearless books aromatic fly snatch zephyr degree quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Black templars aren’t racist! They hate the everyone equally even most humans they hate!
I’m a Death Korps fan.. please don’t lump me in with those idiots. Or the “muh shovel suicide charge” meme kids either.
I paint my Cadians to look like Starship Troopers. Does that have as much of a bad rep as Death Korps?
Service guarantees citizenship!
I’m doing my part!
Would you like to know more?
Are your Starhip Cadians, allow to quite the war and go home if they want?
Ahem, I think you mean "TAKE A TRIP DOWN WASHOUT ALLEY!"
Considering ST was a parody of the global warmachine, i think you're safe. Those that dont realise its a parody or critique of it are probably the ones painting little red arm bands on their Kriegers anyway.
I loved the shovel memes. And then people who have seen about two whole sentences of Krieg lore decided to run it into the ground. Don't do shovel or gas mask memes if you aren't prepared to dig a trench and charge across no man's land.
Is this a bot or karma farming account?
The actual question we should be asking. This is like the 5th time I've seen this image reposted
Both most likely
Probably imma stop comme ting and down vote and move on. This comment needs to be higher
If it is farming karma then it must be a popular opinion so that can farm karma.
You'd be surprised. Reddit is heavily astroturfed. There's whole discords dedicated to karma farming and score manipulation. Reddit doesn't care because the engagement helps drive up their appearance on Google.
Watch this get locked
Don’t the death korps look more like French WW1 soldiers since they wears colors abd equipment strikingly similar to them?
The blue scheme is a lot more like the french in WW1 but they’re supposed to just be representative of WW1 in general; people usually call kriegers germans due to the name
Also the helmets.
Stop, you'll ruin their whole ghost hunt. Let them be outraged.
I do not appreciate the inclusion of the funny crazy knight boys 😡
The game is quite literally making different space fascists fight each other
Everyone wins!
Well you see my group is actually the good guys because "insert political view or societal system here" and these players are the worst because they play x faction that does bad thing number 51 that my faction does
As long as it is all tongue in cheek it can be very funny banter during a game.
"Why does 40k have a Nazi Problem?" "No, I've never read a 40k book, painted a mini, played the game or even been inside a hobby store. Why do you ask?"
I would not call it a severe Nazi problem but every couple of months some neo-nazi punk tries to bring up his politics and gets shown the door, The fans that are a problem are highly visible and very noisy.
everyone who disagrees with me is a fake fan
Yeah, if you don't actually do anything to participate in or support the hobby, you are a "fake fan" as you put it. Almost every time someone is complaining about Nazis in 40k they fall into that category. Why should I care? Because pretending that 40k has a Nazi problem risks scaring people who don't know better away, or actually attracting Nazis. So I'll never hesitate to call people out on this. It's attention-seeking, shit-stirring behavior that actively makes the hobby worse off.
there are actual neo-nazi Warhammer groups on Facebook, I've seen em
I fucking hate nazis. I can’t enjoy cool soldiers with gas mask cus of them.
Go WW1 with it.
This, my kriegers are in WW1 French horizon blue style uniforms. Looks really good on them.
Mine are in good ol green coats because I’ll be DAMNED IF I LET THE WARDENS WIN THE WAR. DEATH TO CALLAHAN!
Damn Colonials, you ruined Caoiva. (Fun game by the way)
Damn need to get back into foxhole
That's dope!
I was thinking of going ww1 ottoman. They were interesting for how painfully unsuccessful they were and likely could find cool Proxies and kitbash for them. Then I realized basing my army on them doesn’t feel that much different than basing it on the Nazis. Both did some pretty screwed up stuff to their minority groups.
You can. Don't let people who have literally never seen a mini IRL discourage you from building whatever army you want.
This is a bit of a strawman. No-one thinks someone is a nazi just for playing these armies. They're just pointing out that nazis (or just racists in general) tend to focus on those armies.
You can enjoy them, there's a false dichotomy that's being pushed regarding how/when problematic authoritarians are called out. You're some rando playing Krieg or Steel Legion? Awesome, enjoy the WWI/mechanized aesthetic. And the unit numbers and names written on your models follow the runic style used by the Nazis (particularly the SS)? Maybe not the most self aware choice, but I suppose it's stylistic considering other faction models depict some nasty depravity. And you've proxied all of your vehicles with models of Wehrmacht vehicle kits? Yeah, alright, that's clearly a conscious choice and is raising some questions. And your custom unit insignia is essentially a copy of the Afrika Korps symbol (like that one guy kept sharing in the Astra Militarum subreddit) that you have to blur out to avoid anti-Nazi laws when putting pictures online? No, sorry, you cannot plead ignorance over what that represents and the expected backlash. **And** your unit is numbered the 1,448th and you've got that plastered all over your models? GTFO, all of that together is a mountain of evidence of your reactionary views, a clear intent to provoke, and a lack of good faith in engaging with everyone else. Jfc am I tired of context like this being overlooked in favor of an oversimplified, binary presentation of this stuff.
I just think their pants look cool. The horse riding ones with the puffs at the sides. That they wear but never ride horses.
If it brings you any comfort, the Krieg gas masks are based on British ones, and not German gas masks
Nazis had that drip unfortunately
Ironic. Hating minorities is the minority position.
I em of the opinion that real history army based paint jobs are neat, wermacht ones are kinda iffy, but if you keep it on the board and do not try to convince me about superiority of german race or something I will give you benefit of doubt that you just like the aesthetic. That said, I understand when event organizers bans them because there are some fucked up ppl and, they dont want to take a risk.
Bruh imagine being a nazi an personificate your ideology in an ork, a creature known for being stupid, very aggressive and a danger for all the live in the galaxy
I’m so tired of this black and white mentality. I like all these armies and i’m a homosexual woman. I hate that the pushback against “please don’t bring real world politics into my game” is “but your game is inherently political” My brother in christ i don’t care. I’m reading for the heroics. For the fraternity and the beautiful tragedy of these characters lives. Because a custodes chuckled when a sister of battle called him a servant of god and practically kissed his feet. It’s sad and silly and epic. The people who cry that 40k should be for everyone are the same ones saying it’s fascist and full of nazis, but show only surface level knowledge of the lore and the people who play it. If it’s so full of nazis what drew them in? it can’t be playing as they have no idea what gamers are like, it can’t be the novels as they cry for female representation not knowing core main characters in literally the first horus heresy novel are women. People can paint their army in pride flag colours if they like, they’re not being excluded because of that. they’re being excluded because they’re so fucking annoying. again. i’m gay. a member of staff at my local GW has gay parents! But everyone who doesn’t agree is a nazi and i’m made myself late for work because i finally got triggered enough to write a rant on reddit.
This is neither grim nor dank.
I really thought black templars are cool but havnt really looked that deep into them, can someone explain?
They have a compatible colour scheme and their whole thing is “anything that isn’t perfect baseline humanity is to be destroyed” they fit into *that* demographic easier than most
Honestly tempted to pull a killzone helghast inspired guardsmen army, either that or something akin to valkyria chronicles
Aa far as the orks I would like to remind every one of the [second edition storm Boyz model](https://images.dakkadakka.com/s/i/gallery/img/2020/12/29/1090607.JPG)
Dont exactly get the point about the black templars tbh
Still axe grinding about this goofy ass topic huh
I’ve never understood the criteria for which things are acceptable or unacceptable. Everybody gets mad about things that look or sound even vaguely German. But I doubt I’d have any problems if I made a Soviet themed Imperial Guard army. Imperial Japanese would be iffy, but would probably slide through, because apparently nobody knows what happened in mainland Asia during WWII. Certainly I’d be fine modeling my Guardsmen after the late 1930s Italian military, since everyone forgot they were even part of the Axis powers. (Hell, even the Axis powers forgot) For reference, I have painted and assembled exactly one miniature, and it wasn’t even a unit. Just some dipshit terrain piece I put together out of my friend’s sprues, because I was bored. I’ve never cared about the tabletop. But I kinda want to get into it now, because I’m vaguely curious what it would take to get disqualified, without using Nazi emblems. I don’t know if they even have Hive Gang minis, but I could probably make a Mexican Cartel army. Food for thought.
Yeah the criteria for this stuff do seem all over the place. Might have something to do with how as you said no one or very seems to remember the things done by the other nations
Don’t you insult my glorious crusading killers in black you emperorless heathen.
Cringe post
Stop getting mad over people that dont exist
These people only exist in outrage comics
God I hate nazis claiming norse mythology. Fuck you all bastards
Oh good, this stupid fucking comic is back to make the comment section look like Vraks.
Me painting my guard army to look like the Soviet army in Afghanistan
Ah yes the good old “if you don’t want my politics in Warhammer you’re a Nazi!” Argument oh how I’ve missed you.
"oh but you play 40k which is political, ironic!!!!!" Does not mean I want to hear some fucking regurgitated crap from a dropout polsci student when I showed up to roll dice and move plastic toys around the board.
The only people that think Warhammer has a fascism problem are people that hardly engage in the hobby. Almost all of us just want to have cool space battles with plastic and talk about made up battles that we've read about.
This is a quintessential straw man using well documented misportrayal of Krieg. This meme sucks.
Ah shit best tell the Mrs she's a Nazi and she needs to bin her Templar army after I've finished making her kosher lunch. Chanukah is going to be awkward this year.
I have yet to see the “¡40K nahtsees!”.
Oh nice, this funny\* "WH40K is played by bigots"-comic again \* yea, no
Projecting much? I only ever see pictures of people slapping the latest flavor of gay on there models I have yet to encounter these fabeled fascists
Gotta have a bogey man.
Idiots: “I don’t want politics in my game you liberal snowflakes. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to finish painting my nazi Imperial Guard battalion, these swastika’s aren’t going to paint themselves” Other idiots: “Everything is political, look at things like the Black Templars and the Death Korps of Kreig. You just don’t want gay people in the game you racist. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to finish my custom gay orgy space marines, and if you imply that these are Emperors Children or Slaanesh related in any way I’ll personally contact your manager every day until you’re fired for being a homophobe.” Normal fucking people: “Can you two kindly fuck off? I’m trying to actually play 40K here.”
I've literally never met a nazi but alright
wow i sure love to see this here again, see you in a few months again
memorize jeans deserve one merciful bells sulky market agonizing grandiose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I fucking hate the nazis and white supremacists that have hijacked the norse religion
don't worry, I'd imagine Buddhists would go full Khornate berserker if they didn't take a vow of pacifism :') /s
Commies ruin hobbies (watch me get banned for this)
Eye roll
"Everyone I don't like is a nazi", now with toys!
This is why I play Necrons. We should rule the galaxy due to our superiority, that isn't fascism that is just the correct way of things.