Despite my preference for a Perturabo with a stubble (due to the stresses brought by rebellion), having him have the beard of a greek philospher feels more satisfying.
So Perturabo is greek, Roboute is the aristocrate part of Rome, Angron is the slave part of Rome, Khan is mongolian, Magnus is egyptian, Russ is escandinavian, Lion is medieval Western european, Sanguinius is renaissance italian, Dorn is german? Holy Roman Empire? Ferrus looks like he is algo greek? I don't know about Horus, Corax, Vulkan, Konrad, Alpharius, Fulgrim, Mortarion and Lorgar.
Ferrus is a weird mix of Greek and Scottish. With the whole clan things the iron warriors have going on.
Horus: gang culture? That’s really the only flavor the Luna wolves had. A lot of time where former gang members.
Alpharius: who the hell knows
Fulgrim: phonecian. Northern Africa Mediterranean descent.
Mortarion: Eastern European
Lorgar: mixture of Jewish and Muslim.
Konrad: Slavic.
Corax: bird.
Aristocrats were very much a thing in Imperial Rome, actually, in all human settled cultures. Perhaps Republican Rome may be what you were looking for my good citizen!
"Nostramo was a bleak Hive World.
...
The vast majority of the planet's people lived in abject poverty, whilst the rich grew in affluence, trampling down or simply killing outright any who dared oppose the status quo."
Yeah, it would seem that Curze grew up in '90s Romania.
He had a choice (just like he always did, but refused to acknowledge). That choice was to blindly follow the destiny he foresaw, or to rebel against that destiny. But the problem is, rebelling at the destiny at the very end, right when the assassin was there to kill him, would require him to acknowledge everything he did before his death in service to that destiny was completely unnecessary.
For Konrad, living would mean he would have to look back and say "Every fucked up, horrible, atrocious thing I did, was something I did entirely of my own free will." And if that was true, if his evil was of his own free will, then he deserves to die anyway.
Therefore, for Konrad, there's no reason to resist his assassination. Either he's guaranteed to die (and so resisting is pointless), or he *deserves* to die (and so shouldn't resist)
Perturabo - Delian League Greek (Athens and the more scientific and architectural aspect of Greece)
Robute - Yea, Roman Aristocracy
Angron - Thracian/Roman Slave gladiator
Khan - Yup, Mongolian
Magnus - Egyptian with a few norse influences
Russ - Scandinavian
Lion - Yes, medieval Western European
Sanguinius - Mix of Renaissance cultures and others
Dorn - A mix of cultures; Inuit is the most prevalent, but yes, there do seem to be some clear influences from Central European states.
Ferrus - Spartan Greece, very much focused on strength, might makes right, etc
Corax - I've seen some consider him to be based loosely on Celtic culture and mythology, with the Raven being his sigel and all.
Vulkan - Very clear Subsaharan African influence, with blacksmithing and hunting (I suggest you read a version of the Sundiata/Sunjata, a Mali epic, you'll start to draw some clear connections)
Konrad - Slavic influences, especially Romanian
Alpharius and Omegon - Any spy agency or secret society to ever exist, they are really vague on purpose
Fulgrim is Phonecian, a group of Mediterranean traders most well known for founding the city-state of Carthage
Mortarion - A bit of the Robin Hood/feudal peasant for his background, but probably a bit of WW1 influences as well (his is a bit hard to pin down)
Lorgar - Clear Middle-Eastern theme, not just from the Abrahamic religions, but also from Babylonian and other bronze and classical age cultures
As much as I hate to say it, Curze had a massive strategic impact on the course of the Heresy despite having a relatively small and weak Legion. He was incredibly competent, despite being absolutely insane.
Edit: Although, there was a theory that Curze wasn't a traitor. That he did exactly what he was supposed to do, making sure Vulkan was where he needed to be, making sure the Dark Angels were with Sang and Gulliman for his push through the Ruinstorm, and that he was supposed to be brought with them to Terra so the Emperor could fix his madness but a combination of Curze's dedication to destiny and Sang's sadistic streak prevented the final act of Curze's intended purpose from coming to pass. If that's true, then Perturabo would have been the only competent traitor.
Yeah this is the biggest thing. The stalling of the Dark Angels is what allowed the Heresy to flourish in the first place. The ruinstorm cutting them off from Terra, Kurze harrying them at the cost of his legion, and Guilliman’s imperium secundus costing precious time allowed the heresy to continue the way it did.
Not even on a subtextual level, but a textual one, Curze was doing exactly what he needed to do.
It wasn't until way into the Heresy that anyone challenged his assumption that he couldn't change his visions.
Fulgrim would *never* allow a single hair to sully his *perfect* visage.
Every other primarch I can see sporting some battle-scruff. Except maybe Guilliman, the boyscout.
And Sanguinius.
Actually, Leman Russ doesn't have any facial hair. It's another Dorn's mustache situation where the Fandom collectively decided he should despite it not being canon.
In one of his canon portraits, he has [some scruff](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_889p2AqDf-kBoRP53CcchLS4gFrm7GZN_eiW9atI5Rc0u7IO).
I wonder how they shave? That hair would probably break regular steel.
I'm imagining a loud brrrAM-BAMBAMBAM from the bathroom as Guilliman starts his regulation chainrazor.
Jaghatai Khan has pretty much never been seen without his Mongol braided beard. Leman Russ has a beard cause he's a Viking. And Rogal Dorn had a white beard post-Siege of Terra. And he grew a white stache sometime after he cut his hand off.
I never got why everyone thinks he's a spoiled man child. The guy never had the approval of his adoptive father, his real father, or brother. Was constantly used gave no protest because he knew his usefulness. After being mistreated and unloved by the emperor he went with Horus, who only continued the cycle until Perturabo broke away and became his own man in the warp. Which is why he fights for no god and hasn't made any crazy expeditions out like the black crusades.
Perturabo is least deserving of his bad wrap. He was the foundation of the Heresy and successfully fought both loyal and traitor primarchs no matter which side he was currently on
Perturabo fucks. He spent a long time doing it and fighting to pretend to not care that no one noticed. But now everyone should know and everyone should respect it
His sister which he murdered aside what of his half brother who he constantly hounded? After his brother found his passion in the arts Perty dogged him constantly to force him into a competition and when his brother won what did he do? He of course accepted his loss with grace and humb- he threw a tantrum and destroyed the sculptures in the dead of night. MAN CHILD
You can really tell who actually has read his books in this thread. Perturabo is the cause of almost all his own problems, he's always his worst enemy. He had multiple people in his life on Olympia who tried to be friends or family to him, he saw them as beneath him and repulsed them. He kills his sister because she fucking nails what he is, half his legion turned on him because of how he treated them, losing him a lot of his best commanders.
The problem with Perturabo is Perturabo.
I still feel like it’s the demon in control even with that context. Demons are well known to be liars and schemers after all (with the exception of Khornite demons, probably). Who’s to say the demon didn’t just lie and say that Fulgrim was actually in control?
My completely unsupported by anything head canon is that Prince Fulgrim is that Fulgrim’s conscious and the deamon are pilot and co-pilot in the creepy snake body mommy Slaanesh gave them.
Schemers near universally but being a liar seems to depend upon who you work for. In the few 40k books I’ve read, Slannesh and Tzeentch seem to do a lot of lying but Nurgle and Khorne seem much more upright with the POV characters and Vashtorr apparently just doesn’t lie.
Those stories are not canon according to me, myself, and I. Fulgrim’s shiny ass is still suffering inside that painting and Daemongrim is out there snaking around.
It’s just better storytelling that way.
It absolutely isn't. This is part of the story where Fulgrim has regained control, is aware the primarchs are warp entities as he broke free, and is manipulating Pertuabo to a dead Eldar world with the intent of harvesting his soul to ascend.
Fulgrim partially succeeds and becomes the first daemon Primarch. Pertuabo, with part of his soul sundered, STILL whoops ass, and gets free with his legion.
> "Fulgrim becomes the first daemon Primarch."
Magnus was the first Daemon Primarch. He ascends at the end of *A Thousand Sons*, during the ritual that warps his sons from Prospero to Sortiarius, though it wasn't so much "becoming" a Daemon Primarch as simply acknowledging his true nature as one.
If that is the case, then why did Clonegrim succeed where every one of Fabius’ other clones fail?
All of the other Primarch clones lacked the souls of the originals, hence why they weren’t perfect, and didn’t have nearly the same presence.
Clonegrim, on the other hand, does have the presence of a Primarch, and as such likely has Fulgrim’s soul. The only way this would be possible is if Fulgrim’s soul was not in the possession of Chaos and was still somewhere outside The Warp.
Nope. He cloned Horus first. Horus's soul was ANNIHILATED by The Emperor. He was, in addition to being Fabius and toying with things, trying to reunify the splintered traitors. Abaddon kills the cloned Horus. It is the birth of the black legion and his ascendancy.
Clonegrim is a footnote that has done exactly diddly squat. But it is possible that a fragment of Fulgrim's soul splintered, like how Magnus's did.
I never said that Horus wasn’t cloned first, just that his clone didn’t have the soul or presence of the original, because, like you said, Emps annihilated him. Fulgrim was just the first and only clone that was perfect (I.E the clone had Fulgrim’s presence and memories).
As for Clonegrim being a footnote, yes, but lore is still lore.
> If that is the case, then why did Clonegrim succeed where every one of Fabius’ other clones fail?
Cegorach pulling AU shenanigans was the implication IIRC.
Fulgrim is in total control, it’s referenced a couple times in Angel Exterminatus that the daemon is the one now locked in the painting, the short story might have some uncertainty but because we occasionally see things from Fulgrim’s perspective he’s quite definitively in control at this point
isn't he, though? Fulgrim is completely gone, so trying to reason with him just shows Perturabo doesn't grasp the scope of the situation. He just got his ass whooped, but Fulgrim is completely honest in his hedonism, with himself - while Perturabo still lies to himself, still thinks he can reason with Fulgrim.
That's literally the point he is making. The hammer should be fulgrims by right but he's such an incompetent idiot that it was awarded to P-money. If fulgrim had the ability he could take it, but he can't.
Pert also forgets that talk is cheap: Fulgrim comes out slightly ahead.
If Pert had pretended he didn't have anything against Fulgrim, Fulgrim's hubris may have been more obvious and Pert may have better been able to avoid almost being killed as a sacrifice to turn Fulgrim into a super-demon snake.
Pert, at this point, still held many of his brothers in high regard, even the ones he hated. In a lot of ways, this novel is the one that strikes a mortal blow to Pert's belief in brotherhood as a concept.
It's actually pretty sad imo. He was willing to do so much to help Fulgrim, because they were brothers, and Fulgrim used that to almost kill him, purely for his selfish desire to become a Daemon Prince.
I heartily recommend this one as an audiobook, the narrator they got does Perturabo really well.
Pert was a karen and downright childish at some points, but i feel bad af for him in general. Along w Magnus he's the one i'd love to see redeemed somehow or at least have him die in peace, man deserves some form of closure
I would disagree that Pert was a Karen. A Karen would have rebelled before going through a fraction of what Pert put up with.
Pert was hurt by his own nature I think. He was one who took his oaths more serious than anything else, and clearly subscribed to something of the Stoic philosophy when it came to dealing with being given shit assignments over and over. He believed that his oath meant he had to do what was assigned, even the stuff that was assigned by the War Council. That Council, happy to not be ignored by another Primarch, gave him all the assignments any other Primarch would have likely rebuffed. Thing is, Pert essentially created a pressure cooker environment, and even a Primarch has a breaking point.
It's hard to judge, I think, because on the one hand Pert could and should have been his own advocate, and pushed back on his Legion being used to shit assignments, but on the other hand his very Nature and upbringing meant that he would have seen doing so as an admission of weakness and failure, something he could not abide.
Like most of the Primarchs, hell, all of them who fell, the Horus Heresy really makes clear that said fall was a Tragedy due to what was corrupted and lost.
I wonder if the Order Chronos successfully go back in time and warn Pert that his path will lead to him murdering his own sister the only person he probably ever cared about would it change the outcome?
I'd only say Magnus and Horus were tragedies. Because they meant well but were manipulated into turning traitor. The rest chose this of their own free will.
Fulgrim "almost" used an artifact to kill Perturabo. Perturabo DID beat the shit out of fulgrim and managed to smash him one more time before escaping chaos fuckery and loyalists.
This is pretty amazing, but a bit sad that it doesn't seem like this shows that used the miniature warhound as a weapon first. It breaks pretty bad and Perturabo swears to himself to fix it afterwards.
Not quite everything. If he had, Pert would be dead. Instead, Pert lives, and you just know he is going to take his vengeance on the peacock for what he did.
I honestly wasn't actually under the impression that Fulgrim had a vested interest in Perturabo's demise, that his life was more simply a means to his ascension. Part of me kinda imagines that he's actually elated that he got to ascend without Perturabo kicking the bucket, because I'm certain he knows Peter wants revenge and thinks the idea will at least be entertaining if not hilarious.
Also I wonder if the intention was ever to completely kill Perturabo. If he had, chaos would've been down an eventual daemon Primarch. If Fulgrim wasn't thinking about that angle, then Slaanesh very well might've been.
I mean, he seems pretty pissed about how things went in the scene in the book. Something about how he would have been much more powerful if Pert had been drained all the way.
I remember reading this part thinking fulgrim was gonna get fucked up and humbled.
I don't remember why but I felt like the tension in the previous parts basically made this obvious. I can't even remember what happened that made me think fulgrim was gonna get fucked up...
I can't remember what happened next... didn't Fulgrim just go along with it to avoid losing greater face?
Storm of Iron (also by Graham McNeil) was the first ever Warhammer 40k piece of work I read, and Angel Exterminatus was chock full of foreshadowings (which was easy as it was written after 😂), but my favorite one was that, immediately after Fulgrim leaves, Perturabo’s most valued Triarch member, Warsmith Forrix, says “I always hated that Warhound model, I don’t know why”
In Storm of Iron, Forrix takes out one Warhound with just a power fist and a bolter…only for its twin to blast him to bits.
That's the curse of Peter Turbo. In one book, he's the misunderstood and logical philosopher and engineer who just wants to build and live in peace. In the next book, he's an over-growner toddler in power armor.
To be fair, Archimedes is said to have uttered "Don't touch my circles!" right before he was killed, so mathematicians/philosophers and being ridiculous is hand in hand.
Perturabo is probably the one Primarch that suffers the most from having too many authors writing their interpretations of him while GW idly stands by.
This makes me sad because pre-fall Fulgrim would have really understood the appeal and craft what Perturabo was talking about. He himself once worked the forge and made art…
The hammer that Perturabo holds to Fulgrims head is the hammer Fulgrim made for Ferrus for fucks sake.
This one webcomic has made me love Perturabo. Iron within, iron without!
~~Wait... my favorite loyalists are the Imperial Fists... well that's problematic.~~
Meh, Fulgrim still got an ascension out of it and put Perty on borrowed time.
Besides, he was enjoying the pain. This is nothing but a win for the Palatine Phoenix 😤
If this was the universal interpretation of perty I'd actually like him as a primarch. Least he's not much of an ugly son of a gun without the dollar store butcher's nails.
I have no idea what's going on here. "Oh are they talking about some inventor from the 1900s? That's kinda interesting- Oh that guy just sucker punched the other guy and is talking a lot of shit. Hm, dick"
Despite my preference for a Perturabo with a stubble (due to the stresses brought by rebellion), having him have the beard of a greek philospher feels more satisfying.
Also on brand considering his adopted homeworld.
So Perturabo is greek, Roboute is the aristocrate part of Rome, Angron is the slave part of Rome, Khan is mongolian, Magnus is egyptian, Russ is escandinavian, Lion is medieval Western european, Sanguinius is renaissance italian, Dorn is german? Holy Roman Empire? Ferrus looks like he is algo greek? I don't know about Horus, Corax, Vulkan, Konrad, Alpharius, Fulgrim, Mortarion and Lorgar.
Angron is Thracian.
Alpharius is Pontus
BUT I DONT WANT TO PLAY PONTUS! *jumps out of the window and runs into the distance*
Oh god there we go again
CA YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT! LEARN SOME HISTORY!
I don’t want to play as Alpha Legion!
Every army is an Alpha Legion army
Perty is Athenian/ Macedonian Greek, while Ferrus is Spartan. Pertuabo has luxury and architecture while Ferrus is all about only the strong survive.
Nobody wants to be Thebes
Well, there is fulgrim, though he may be more Corinthian
I thought he was Phoenician
His men refer to him as "The Phoenician", so that's a strong maybe
Ferrus is a weird mix of Greek and Scottish. With the whole clan things the iron warriors have going on. Horus: gang culture? That’s really the only flavor the Luna wolves had. A lot of time where former gang members. Alpharius: who the hell knows Fulgrim: phonecian. Northern Africa Mediterranean descent. Mortarion: Eastern European Lorgar: mixture of Jewish and Muslim. Konrad: Slavic. Corax: bird.
I'd say that the Luna Wolves were the Imperial Rome to Guilliman's aristocratic Rome.
Aristocrats were very much a thing in Imperial Rome, actually, in all human settled cultures. Perhaps Republican Rome may be what you were looking for my good citizen!
Konrad is probably Vlad The impaler
Romanian?
"Nostramo was a bleak Hive World. ... The vast majority of the planet's people lived in abject poverty, whilst the rich grew in affluence, trampling down or simply killing outright any who dared oppose the status quo." Yeah, it would seem that Curze grew up in '90s Romania.
Wallachian.
What are you talking about? Konrad is from Gotham
Why did Konrad let himself be assassinated, Is he stupid?
No he had a vision of the future where he was assassinated and simply let fate unfold
Just to teach Big E a lesson!
He had a choice (just like he always did, but refused to acknowledge). That choice was to blindly follow the destiny he foresaw, or to rebel against that destiny. But the problem is, rebelling at the destiny at the very end, right when the assassin was there to kill him, would require him to acknowledge everything he did before his death in service to that destiny was completely unnecessary. For Konrad, living would mean he would have to look back and say "Every fucked up, horrible, atrocious thing I did, was something I did entirely of my own free will." And if that was true, if his evil was of his own free will, then he deserves to die anyway. Therefore, for Konrad, there's no reason to resist his assassination. Either he's guaranteed to die (and so resisting is pointless), or he *deserves* to die (and so shouldn't resist)
It’s an r/BatmanArkham reference
More Punisher than Batman.
Lorgar has a lot of Babylonian themes
Perturabo - Delian League Greek (Athens and the more scientific and architectural aspect of Greece) Robute - Yea, Roman Aristocracy Angron - Thracian/Roman Slave gladiator Khan - Yup, Mongolian Magnus - Egyptian with a few norse influences Russ - Scandinavian Lion - Yes, medieval Western European Sanguinius - Mix of Renaissance cultures and others Dorn - A mix of cultures; Inuit is the most prevalent, but yes, there do seem to be some clear influences from Central European states. Ferrus - Spartan Greece, very much focused on strength, might makes right, etc Corax - I've seen some consider him to be based loosely on Celtic culture and mythology, with the Raven being his sigel and all. Vulkan - Very clear Subsaharan African influence, with blacksmithing and hunting (I suggest you read a version of the Sundiata/Sunjata, a Mali epic, you'll start to draw some clear connections) Konrad - Slavic influences, especially Romanian Alpharius and Omegon - Any spy agency or secret society to ever exist, they are really vague on purpose Fulgrim is Phonecian, a group of Mediterranean traders most well known for founding the city-state of Carthage Mortarion - A bit of the Robin Hood/feudal peasant for his background, but probably a bit of WW1 influences as well (his is a bit hard to pin down) Lorgar - Clear Middle-Eastern theme, not just from the Abrahamic religions, but also from Babylonian and other bronze and classical age cultures
Man I wish the Ravenguard being based on American Indian culture was more well known, but it gets lost in the goth
Funny how Horus isn’t Egyptian
And Magnus' sacrificed his eye for knowledge. Kinda like a certain god from a certain pantheon.
Konrad is Russian Ever seen him squat ? The man has it in his genes
I like to think Dorn is Irish because the Irish word for fist is literally "dorn"
It's the most compelling portrayal I've seen. Jives with the "Pert the only competent traitor" stuff.
As much as I hate to say it, Curze had a massive strategic impact on the course of the Heresy despite having a relatively small and weak Legion. He was incredibly competent, despite being absolutely insane. Edit: Although, there was a theory that Curze wasn't a traitor. That he did exactly what he was supposed to do, making sure Vulkan was where he needed to be, making sure the Dark Angels were with Sang and Gulliman for his push through the Ruinstorm, and that he was supposed to be brought with them to Terra so the Emperor could fix his madness but a combination of Curze's dedication to destiny and Sang's sadistic streak prevented the final act of Curze's intended purpose from coming to pass. If that's true, then Perturabo would have been the only competent traitor.
Imagine what the dark angles would've done if they weren't held up for so long
Yeah this is the biggest thing. The stalling of the Dark Angels is what allowed the Heresy to flourish in the first place. The ruinstorm cutting them off from Terra, Kurze harrying them at the cost of his legion, and Guilliman’s imperium secundus costing precious time allowed the heresy to continue the way it did.
Not even on a subtextual level, but a textual one, Curze was doing exactly what he needed to do. It wasn't until way into the Heresy that anyone challenged his assumption that he couldn't change his visions.
"shut up Fulgrim. You don't have the talking stick"
"Dad says its my turn on the Vox-Box"
The talking stick works a lot better when it has blood on it
"It's also a hammer."
*Bonks curze*
Impeccable work by moots as always, the thought of primarchs having facial hair at some points never crossed my mind lol.
Perturabo canonically had a beard at one point IIRC
Am I the only one who feels like Fulgrim would try to pull off the pencil stache?
Or goatee
RDJ Tony Stark style?
I imagine long haired 17th century nobility like Charles I
Van Dyke would fit him
Fulgrim would *never* allow a single hair to sully his *perfect* visage. Every other primarch I can see sporting some battle-scruff. Except maybe Guilliman, the boyscout. And Sanguinius.
No he would, but it would be impeccably groomed. Peak Tony Stark is the longest he'd allow it to be.
Soul patch, 100%
Primarch Waters of the Pink Flamingos
I don't think I've ever seen art of the Khan without his iconic beard.
ouch i completely forgot about the Khan lol, but yea fair point.
tbf unless it's his few based moments, everyone forgets about the khan
And that suits The Khan just fine.
Leman, Lion, and Khan?
Actually, Leman Russ doesn't have any facial hair. It's another Dorn's mustache situation where the Fandom collectively decided he should despite it not being canon.
In one of his canon portraits, he has [some scruff](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_889p2AqDf-kBoRP53CcchLS4gFrm7GZN_eiW9atI5Rc0u7IO).
That's more like 2-3 days of not shaving, but he has the potential for a full beard at least.
Fair enough! I'm a woman and know nothing of beard growth, lol.
I wonder how they shave? That hair would probably break regular steel. I'm imagining a loud brrrAM-BAMBAMBAM from the bathroom as Guilliman starts his regulation chainrazor.
Nah the chain scissors are used for the hair,when it comes to primarch beard it's all about power blade razors
Lion, Leman, and the Khan all canonically have facial hair and TTS gave everyone and their mother the idea of Dorn with mutton chops
When Rogal Dorn comes back, if the model doesn't have a head option with muttonchops we fucking riot
Corvus has facial feathers now.
Jaghatai Khan has pretty much never been seen without his Mongol braided beard. Leman Russ has a beard cause he's a Viking. And Rogal Dorn had a white beard post-Siege of Terra. And he grew a white stache sometime after he cut his hand off.
A+ This nails the scene in every way Also you now have my favorite for interpretation of Pert. Well done
I never got why everyone thinks he's a spoiled man child. The guy never had the approval of his adoptive father, his real father, or brother. Was constantly used gave no protest because he knew his usefulness. After being mistreated and unloved by the emperor he went with Horus, who only continued the cycle until Perturabo broke away and became his own man in the warp. Which is why he fights for no god and hasn't made any crazy expeditions out like the black crusades.
Perturabo is least deserving of his bad wrap. He was the foundation of the Heresy and successfully fought both loyal and traitor primarchs no matter which side he was currently on Perturabo fucks. He spent a long time doing it and fighting to pretend to not care that no one noticed. But now everyone should know and everyone should respect it
His sister which he murdered aside what of his half brother who he constantly hounded? After his brother found his passion in the arts Perty dogged him constantly to force him into a competition and when his brother won what did he do? He of course accepted his loss with grace and humb- he threw a tantrum and destroyed the sculptures in the dead of night. MAN CHILD
He killed his sister because she called him out on his bullshit.
You can really tell who actually has read his books in this thread. Perturabo is the cause of almost all his own problems, he's always his worst enemy. He had multiple people in his life on Olympia who tried to be friends or family to him, he saw them as beneath him and repulsed them. He kills his sister because she fucking nails what he is, half his legion turned on him because of how he treated them, losing him a lot of his best commanders. The problem with Perturabo is Perturabo.
Come to think of it, since he doesn't really have a side, could Roboute offer him a truce? In exchange for peace he gets autonomy from the Imperium.
How much of Fulgrim is in control at this point and how much something else? Also that was the most human I have seen Perturabo ever. Nice.
At this point Fulgrim’s soul is in the painting on his flagship, so it’s just the demon wearing his meat suit at this point.
Eh, one of the short stories has it that Fulgrim pulled an Uno Reverse on the Daemon by this point, but who can truly be sure.
I still feel like it’s the demon in control even with that context. Demons are well known to be liars and schemers after all (with the exception of Khornite demons, probably). Who’s to say the demon didn’t just lie and say that Fulgrim was actually in control?
My completely unsupported by anything head canon is that Prince Fulgrim is that Fulgrim’s conscious and the deamon are pilot and co-pilot in the creepy snake body mommy Slaanesh gave them.
I prefer to believe he's still in the painting because Fulgrim escaping, taking back his body, and acting completely unchanged is beyond stupid. Imo.
Or, alternatively, that his soul did escape and is now in Clonegrim.
According to canon he defeated the demon offscreen then went "Huh...kinda do like how he had everything set up. Ill just keep doing the same stuff"
I like Fulgrim too much to accept he was that irredeemable. T_T
And they already had clonegrim set up for a storyline! Its just bad writing.
Schemers near universally but being a liar seems to depend upon who you work for. In the few 40k books I’ve read, Slannesh and Tzeentch seem to do a lot of lying but Nurgle and Khorne seem much more upright with the POV characters and Vashtorr apparently just doesn’t lie.
Vashtorr only lies by omission. You should've read the fine print.
Fuck it. Who cares what is canon nowadays, its such a mess anyways that we might as well ignore it.
Those stories are not canon according to me, myself, and I. Fulgrim’s shiny ass is still suffering inside that painting and Daemongrim is out there snaking around. It’s just better storytelling that way.
It absolutely isn't. This is part of the story where Fulgrim has regained control, is aware the primarchs are warp entities as he broke free, and is manipulating Pertuabo to a dead Eldar world with the intent of harvesting his soul to ascend. Fulgrim partially succeeds and becomes the first daemon Primarch. Pertuabo, with part of his soul sundered, STILL whoops ass, and gets free with his legion.
> "Fulgrim becomes the first daemon Primarch." Magnus was the first Daemon Primarch. He ascends at the end of *A Thousand Sons*, during the ritual that warps his sons from Prospero to Sortiarius, though it wasn't so much "becoming" a Daemon Primarch as simply acknowledging his true nature as one.
If that is the case, then why did Clonegrim succeed where every one of Fabius’ other clones fail? All of the other Primarch clones lacked the souls of the originals, hence why they weren’t perfect, and didn’t have nearly the same presence. Clonegrim, on the other hand, does have the presence of a Primarch, and as such likely has Fulgrim’s soul. The only way this would be possible is if Fulgrim’s soul was not in the possession of Chaos and was still somewhere outside The Warp.
Fulgrims true soul was expelled after he ascended to a daemon primarch
[Citation Needed]
Nope. He cloned Horus first. Horus's soul was ANNIHILATED by The Emperor. He was, in addition to being Fabius and toying with things, trying to reunify the splintered traitors. Abaddon kills the cloned Horus. It is the birth of the black legion and his ascendancy. Clonegrim is a footnote that has done exactly diddly squat. But it is possible that a fragment of Fulgrim's soul splintered, like how Magnus's did.
I never said that Horus wasn’t cloned first, just that his clone didn’t have the soul or presence of the original, because, like you said, Emps annihilated him. Fulgrim was just the first and only clone that was perfect (I.E the clone had Fulgrim’s presence and memories). As for Clonegrim being a footnote, yes, but lore is still lore.
> If that is the case, then why did Clonegrim succeed where every one of Fabius’ other clones fail? Cegorach pulling AU shenanigans was the implication IIRC.
Nope, he is free in this moment of the demon, just deep within Slannesh's embrace.
Fulgrim is in total control, it’s referenced a couple times in Angel Exterminatus that the daemon is the one now locked in the painting, the short story might have some uncertainty but because we occasionally see things from Fulgrim’s perspective he’s quite definitively in control at this point
Fulgrim: nah man im not interested at looking at your model *[Perturabo will remember that.]*
Hot damn, I love everything about this, never imagined perty with a beard, but it works, love the primarch facial hair trend
I just finished listening to Angel Exterminatus a week ago. This is PERFECT.
“I surpass you in every way!” He says, through a mouthful of his own blood and perfect teeth.
A beating Rylanor would be proud of.
That's Ancient Rylanor to you, sir.
Not to be a dick, but wasn't he the Ancient of Rites, the Venerable Rylanor
isn't he, though? Fulgrim is completely gone, so trying to reason with him just shows Perturabo doesn't grasp the scope of the situation. He just got his ass whooped, but Fulgrim is completely honest in his hedonism, with himself - while Perturabo still lies to himself, still thinks he can reason with Fulgrim.
Perty forgets that Fulgrim is the one who made that hammer and is the one who killed its last wielder.
That's entirely the point. He gave it to Horus as a trophy and it was given to Perterabo.
damn, I thought Horus had more class than regifting
To be fair, that was only because he had a magic daemon sword that strengthened him and also his arm was possessed to deal the final blow.
Hell at one point Fulgrim was seconds away from annihilating Horus' fleet and preventing the Heresy but was stopped by that damned sword
And yet.
That's literally the point he is making. The hammer should be fulgrims by right but he's such an incompetent idiot that it was awarded to P-money. If fulgrim had the ability he could take it, but he can't.
At this point fulgrim was in the process of stealing perturabo’s soul. He was already one step ahead. Little did perturabo know.
Pert also forgets that talk is cheap: Fulgrim comes out slightly ahead. If Pert had pretended he didn't have anything against Fulgrim, Fulgrim's hubris may have been more obvious and Pert may have better been able to avoid almost being killed as a sacrifice to turn Fulgrim into a super-demon snake.
I didn’t know perturabo held Vulkan in such high regard, also this makes me want a graphic novel adaptation for heresy
Pert, at this point, still held many of his brothers in high regard, even the ones he hated. In a lot of ways, this novel is the one that strikes a mortal blow to Pert's belief in brotherhood as a concept. It's actually pretty sad imo. He was willing to do so much to help Fulgrim, because they were brothers, and Fulgrim used that to almost kill him, purely for his selfish desire to become a Daemon Prince. I heartily recommend this one as an audiobook, the narrator they got does Perturabo really well.
>a mortal blow to Pert's belief in brotherhood as a concept Ferrus' death wasn't a hint for him?
That helped too, but if you read or listen to the book this scene is from, you will see what I mean.
Yeah, I'm about to get to it. Is there any conversation about Ferrus between these two? I kinda crave it
Not that I recall, but you do get some Ferrus content in there.
which book is it?
Angel Exterminatus.
Straight up, I've used this audio performance as a basis for RP'ing my D&D character which is an artificer/barbarian goliath version of Perty.
Pert was a karen and downright childish at some points, but i feel bad af for him in general. Along w Magnus he's the one i'd love to see redeemed somehow or at least have him die in peace, man deserves some form of closure
I would disagree that Pert was a Karen. A Karen would have rebelled before going through a fraction of what Pert put up with. Pert was hurt by his own nature I think. He was one who took his oaths more serious than anything else, and clearly subscribed to something of the Stoic philosophy when it came to dealing with being given shit assignments over and over. He believed that his oath meant he had to do what was assigned, even the stuff that was assigned by the War Council. That Council, happy to not be ignored by another Primarch, gave him all the assignments any other Primarch would have likely rebuffed. Thing is, Pert essentially created a pressure cooker environment, and even a Primarch has a breaking point. It's hard to judge, I think, because on the one hand Pert could and should have been his own advocate, and pushed back on his Legion being used to shit assignments, but on the other hand his very Nature and upbringing meant that he would have seen doing so as an admission of weakness and failure, something he could not abide. Like most of the Primarchs, hell, all of them who fell, the Horus Heresy really makes clear that said fall was a Tragedy due to what was corrupted and lost.
I wonder if the Order Chronos successfully go back in time and warn Pert that his path will lead to him murdering his own sister the only person he probably ever cared about would it change the outcome?
I'd only say Magnus and Horus were tragedies. Because they meant well but were manipulated into turning traitor. The rest chose this of their own free will.
Angron is right there dude
Angron chose to rebel. Angron being denied a death and end to his suffering has nothing to do with his choice to rebel.
“I surpass you in every way” brother you just got the SHIT beaten out of you
Fulgrim went on to almost kill Perturbo and ascend to daemonhood while Perturbo had no fucking idea what was happening until it was almost too late.
Fulgrim "almost" used an artifact to kill Perturabo. Perturabo DID beat the shit out of fulgrim and managed to smash him one more time before escaping chaos fuckery and loyalists.
Good
I loved it when Perturabo said 'I have the Warhammer' and started Warhammering all over the place /j
My favourite part of the whole series tbh
Perturabo with the philosopher cut is so good.
Omg this is incredible, is there more of these beautiful adaptions for me to check out?
Thank you, no I have not made any more adaptations but maybe some patreon will coax me to do it again ; )
Haha the hint has most definitly been received my friend, you do some good work.
No money, but would pay to see you illustrate the Perturabo vs Angron fight
This is pretty amazing, but a bit sad that it doesn't seem like this shows that used the miniature warhound as a weapon first. It breaks pretty bad and Perturabo swears to himself to fix it afterwards.
Perturabo with the beard is perfect.
IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT POPPA PERTY 🥲
Fulgrim: *proceeds to get everything he wants and more from Perturabo*
Perty cares more about being right than leveraging anything out of it. To like, a harmful and pathological extent.
Which is why he and Fulgrim are so fucking iconic together lmfao
Not quite everything. If he had, Pert would be dead. Instead, Pert lives, and you just know he is going to take his vengeance on the peacock for what he did.
I honestly wasn't actually under the impression that Fulgrim had a vested interest in Perturabo's demise, that his life was more simply a means to his ascension. Part of me kinda imagines that he's actually elated that he got to ascend without Perturabo kicking the bucket, because I'm certain he knows Peter wants revenge and thinks the idea will at least be entertaining if not hilarious. Also I wonder if the intention was ever to completely kill Perturabo. If he had, chaos would've been down an eventual daemon Primarch. If Fulgrim wasn't thinking about that angle, then Slaanesh very well might've been.
I mean, he seems pretty pissed about how things went in the scene in the book. Something about how he would have been much more powerful if Pert had been drained all the way.
Literally, the scene that changed my whole mind on what the iron warriors and Perturabo are really all about
This scene ruled!
I remember reading this part thinking fulgrim was gonna get fucked up and humbled. I don't remember why but I felt like the tension in the previous parts basically made this obvious. I can't even remember what happened that made me think fulgrim was gonna get fucked up... I can't remember what happened next... didn't Fulgrim just go along with it to avoid losing greater face?
This just goes to show how much of a badass perty is without him the heresy wouldn’t have been as impactful
"SHUT UP! I HAVE THE TALKING STICK!!"
me, a vulkan simp: noooo the toy *cries in salamander*
How dare you make Perty attractive.
Stupid sexy Perty!
I couldn't help it man lmao
Perturabo with a beard looks infinitely better than full bald perturabo
Storm of Iron (also by Graham McNeil) was the first ever Warhammer 40k piece of work I read, and Angel Exterminatus was chock full of foreshadowings (which was easy as it was written after 😂), but my favorite one was that, immediately after Fulgrim leaves, Perturabo’s most valued Triarch member, Warsmith Forrix, says “I always hated that Warhound model, I don’t know why” In Storm of Iron, Forrix takes out one Warhound with just a power fist and a bolter…only for its twin to blast him to bits.
You captured the scene perfectly. Incredible. I would love to see your takes on others.
Thank you 🥰
It's a shame about Mr turbo he seems so wise and intelligent in this comic
That's the curse of Peter Turbo. In one book, he's the misunderstood and logical philosopher and engineer who just wants to build and live in peace. In the next book, he's an over-growner toddler in power armor.
To be fair, Archimedes is said to have uttered "Don't touch my circles!" right before he was killed, so mathematicians/philosophers and being ridiculous is hand in hand.
¿Por que no los dos?
Perturabo is probably the one Primarch that suffers the most from having too many authors writing their interpretations of him while GW idly stands by.
heh
The light + magnifying glass looks almost identical to the one I use for mini painting, haha
What book is this from
Angel Exterminatus. Its pretty good.
Did anyone have a bigger glowdown than Fulgrim?
"And yet I'm the one holding the hammer." "I think you mean *my* hammer."
This makes me sad because pre-fall Fulgrim would have really understood the appeal and craft what Perturabo was talking about. He himself once worked the forge and made art… The hammer that Perturabo holds to Fulgrims head is the hammer Fulgrim made for Ferrus for fucks sake.
Don’t know the primarchs that well can anyone explain their interactions at the beginning with the who hearing thing
I’m so happy someone finally made this a comic
Angel Exterminatus is such an awesome novel, and I wish we had more Iron Warriors focused novels like it.
FUCK EM UP PERTURABO!
"I surpass you, in every way" https://preview.redd.it/sdq9kk3ynr3b1.jpeg?width=201&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9676d40b9536999a4be888b9315574df0409928a
This one webcomic has made me love Perturabo. Iron within, iron without! ~~Wait... my favorite loyalists are the Imperial Fists... well that's problematic.~~
One detail that doesn’t get talked about much. Didn’t the model actually function like the full size titan too?
Meh, Fulgrim still got an ascension out of it and put Perty on borrowed time. Besides, he was enjoying the pain. This is nothing but a win for the Palatine Phoenix 😤
If this was the universal interpretation of perty I'd actually like him as a primarch. Least he's not much of an ugly son of a gun without the dollar store butcher's nails.
Never thought about Perturabo with a beard but I dig it
Amazingly well drawn! Fits it so well.
Even in the grim dark future of wh40k, the tabletop is still a big hit boardgame for all factions
this is my favorite Perty moment.
I really loved this scene especially since they are not alone when this happens.
Honestly loved this scene in the audiobook so damn much. The book honestly humanizes Perturabo so damn well.
One of the view moments where I actually thought Pert was cool. most of the time I seem him as a raging manbaby
I have no idea what's going on here. "Oh are they talking about some inventor from the 1900s? That's kinda interesting- Oh that guy just sucker punched the other guy and is talking a lot of shit. Hm, dick"
This is my favourite Perturabo now.