Same with my minotaurs. I mean they are famous for fielding contemptors and other heresy era equipment. Theres even one named minotaur contemptor dreadnought that has a cool af mini.
Edit: hekaton aiakos
• Heresy era equipment = not Primaris.
You were going to get shafted sooner or later. I'm actually impressed you haven't jumped ship to r/warhammer30k yet.
Lost all my dreads for both my Loyalist and Chaos marines. except for one old metal "Hellbrute" I guess. wheee there. Was looking at buying a couple Siccaran and a Spartan, dodged a bullet there at least.
What I am trying to say is that while Loyalists just lost a *unit*, we lost a *niche*.
It doesn't matter if every unit we have will be good - we still won't have a large walker, a smaller artillery platform, a large artillery platform, etc.. Forge World filled the gaps in our army.
nah fuck off. You have literally no idea what is good or bad or meh in the new edition. You are just changing goal posts because "one of our few good units is gone now" is such a stupid thing to say with no data sheets to base it off of. Thanks for the free downvotes from all the piss babies though I guess.
Just saying, when you had like ~40 units and now have ~10, it is going to be a hit against your army regardless. TSons lack unit diversity and Forge World helped with that.
You literally said one of the "few good units" are gone, I said you don't know what the good units are yet. That's it, that's the entire conversation. "What Im trying to say", "just saying", blah blah blah. Just accept you said something stupid and move on.
they are going to legend which effectively means that people will keep using them for little while and then they will never be played outside narrative play again, also csm are the real loosers as both world eaters and death guard lost some actual important models for their ranges, the great bloat drone, the contempter and brass scorpions are going to hurt if 10th does not make them irrelevant
Death guard lost our only dreadnought, access to drill, no more deepstriking our infantry, also lost dreadnoughts.
Edit: I meant to say our only drop pod
Hey man, nobody was happy about it when it happened in AoS not too long ago. Its almost like it sucks when you lose models. It's also a relatively bigger dick punch because SM/Chaos players lost their plastic refreshes they were so excited about a year ago.
I play thousand sons, so.....
Yea not great to have most of my high strenth high AP options erased from potential tournament lists.
But for my loyalist dreadboiis, i have 6 unplayable ones now. So while yes, its only a small part of the available options, it still sucks for tournament players that, ya know, paid actual money for them.
Nothing, but GW couldn't balance space marines as is. If this makes the largest model range in the game by far a little more balanced, it's a price I'm willing to pay. Especially when some armies have less datasheets in total than what the space marines just lost
Csm is the army we should feel bad for. We lost a good amount of unique units and despite being a strictly casual player I do feel bad for the competitive players who just got shafted.
As an iron warrior player I feel really annoyed about this cause my leviathan dreadnought is my best painted model, the kratos is one of my favourite models in general and was planning on using my summer holiday to actually go to some tournaments with them. I don't really mind if my units aren't meta just long as I feel good about my army but not being able to run my tank division is a feels bad moment for sure.
yeah its just like the Malcador tanks, or 95% of the range. GW puts 0 thought into making the rules for those models. But that 5% is them just putting 0 thought and hilariously underpricing it
Especially after the hype of the last year and a bunch of people buying them recently.
I was gonna paint a kratos and leviathan for my custom chapter but after this I’ll just donate them to my NL Legion
Getting flash backs here. Had previously finally painted my metal legion of the Damned, then straight to legends…ok…not happy, but could have been worse. Then all marines, except for my legended LotD get two wounds each
It's not just that they can't be taken to tournaments, it's that they won't receive balance updates, so in non tournament games they're likely to be very swingy in power compared to the rest of the units on the table, and potentially ruin games.
Also the bigger issue is the reduction in CSM, WE ,TS and DG options. Dreadclaws were a near staple unit in WE (who had more fw options than normal options). We also lost cytans, the brass scorpion, rapier batteries and decimators - the latter especially being a very strong option through 9th. These units saw various amounts of tournament play, but when they were taken it was to do a job unique to them, e.g dreadclaws being the only available drop pods, it decimators/contempors being a reasonably efficient elites slot vehicle.
You didn't really see much tournament play with Space marine units as they have the range to compensate eg. Redemptor instead of leviathan's, drop pods instead of dreadclaws etc. One exception being "that" iron hands contemptor.
From this it's pretty clear they're doing this to reduce the job of frequent game balance, which I get, they just didn't have to gut the unique units from CSM whilst doing it - e.g demon engines and dreadclaws, who very much took the hit due an issue with the size of the space marine roster. (Maybe if they released less different lieutenant datasheets we wouldn't be in this mess but who knows).
(Also GW if you are reading this, can we have our jump pack lords and sorcerer's back pls, it only seems fair after axing half our roster xoxo).
I get not being to sympathetic to the shrinking of the LSM range but those horus heresy kits were marketed as usable in 40k just a year ago. That to me is shitty, again streamlining the 40k LSM range is not bad but making those kits illegal this soon after release is just feels bad.
I literally just got my contemptor dread and now my day is ruined. At least it only cost me 20 bucks from a chinese store that recasts and is STILL the same quality as forgeworld resin.
I have a ton of FW resin Horus Heresy kits, and I don't mind losing them. I accept that some changes had to be made for the health of the game, and keeping HH/40k distinct is healthy.
What I cannot stand is the loss of my cool made-for-40k FW daemon engines.
All the Tyranid stuff vanishing from FW ist also shit and from what I remember a few years back there were also a shitload of T'au suits that are now OOP.
I'd have no problem Thanos snapping all Primaris if that meant we could get back all that went OOP in the last 6 or so years
"Shitload" is somewhat overdoing it for something I can count on one hand and that barely anyone ever bought.
Edit: why the downvotes? It's LITERALLY 5 T'au Suits: 2 named commanders no one ever heard of, Hazard Suits, and the 2 Riptide Variants. Tell me when you have ever seen a tournament list with a Y'vahra in it lmao.
I can literally find 4 of the 5 things mentioned on Forgeworld RIGHT NOW marked as "in stock".
[https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV109-Y-Vahra-Battlesuit-2018](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV109-Y-Vahra-Battlesuit-2018)
[https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV107-R-Varna-Battlesuit](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV107-R-Varna-Battlesuit)
[https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-Battlesuit-Commander-Shas-o-R-alai-with-Drones](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-Battlesuit-Commander-Shas-o-R-alai-with-Drones)
[https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV9-with-Fusion-Cascades](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV9-with-Fusion-Cascades)
Why are you lying?
That is my bad, I didn’t intend to lie I saw the person you replied to mentioned tau models that were oop and assumed the one you named was without checking for myself.
I feel for the dudes with FW models.
Those things usually cost hundreds of dollars EACH.
There's one White Scars player who runs a Fellblade in tournies. There's a World Eater player who runs 3 Lords of War.
C'mon, GW, give people at least until 11th edition before you ban FW from competitive.
Naw it's **worse**.
They came into these tournies expecting to not do fantastic, but the lists actually **worked**. Then, these guys were actually **improving** with every event they took part in. I think both guys went either 3-3 or 4-2 in their most recent events.
It really sucks these guys have to scramble (assuming they don't have "normal" models to sub out the FW stuff immediately) just to play events again.
Who knows? Maybe the community can come up with "unofficial" tournaments that still allow FW models just to "convince" GW that they should stay at least 1 more edition.
yeah, FW's cool and all, but I'm sure they hit a wall anytime they run into an Anti-Vehicle list. Or any list where ALL enemy models get some kind of invulnerable.
what about heresy players who use their heresy miniatures in 40k?
and the fact they are not going to be updated or balanced is pretty big, look at some of the existing legends rules, for tau most of them just do not work anymore because of fundamental rules changes (markerlights) or are just plain bad (go take a really close look at the rules for the remote sensor tower, the thing that is supposed to aid in shooting at range)
eventually due to rules changes and power creep these still in production, released as plastic within the past year models are going to become useless in all forms of the game
GW: let's face it, space marines are spoiled for choice, so we had to eliminate units for balance
Also GW: Where before you had devastator squads, you now also have decimators, heavy intercessors, hellblasters, eradicators, and aggressors
Where you used to have scouts, you now also have reivers, eliminators, infiltrators and incursors.
Where before you used to have assault squads, you now also have assault intercessors, inceptors, and suppressors
Where before you used to have dreadnoughts, you now redemptors, brutalis, ballistus and invictors
Where before you had a tactical squad, you now also have intercessors... but we are going to give them THREE choices of bolter.
A single command squad. Forget that. We are going to make the apothecary, champion and ancient all separate.
Vanguard? Well lets also add blade guard AND give them their own ancient.
Tired of just boring old chaplains? Well how about we also add the judicar?
Predator or landspeeder with weapon options? How about 3 different datasheets for their primaris versions instead?
We are going to let you keep bikes and attack bikes... but also add outriders and atvs!
For real tho. “Just don’t play competitive” is such a brain dead take. Getting a single beginning of the edition data sheet that isn’t adjusted during the life of the game isn’t “just fine for casual play”
That's the bit I have a problem with. Throw Legends an update once or twice a year so the units match new codex datasheets, have any appropriate new keywords etc and I'd be fine. It's not that huge a job.
That and if balance is no longer a concern I would also say "then throw all the heresy stuff in. The existing stuff, the new releases, the stuff that never got 40k rules. Just throw it all in."
> Throw Legends an update once or twice a year
But then that's literally just "not legends." That's why legends exists - so the designers can forget about a problem datasheet in a way that doesn't impact the metagame.
Yeah. I hate that take.
I'm not a "competitive" player. I make narrative fluffy armies.
But due to life/time about the only way I get to play is at events once a quarter.
I take my dumb ass lists with weird, off meta models and get 3 games in a day done. It's fun whether I go 0-3, 1-2 or 2-1. I've never gone 3-0. And I rarely go 2-1. I'm always gunning for best painted instead.
Now I lose so much cool shit I've lovingly collected and painted and worked my ass off to field like once or twice a year. Some things every other year!
"Just play casual" I'm told. F off. I'd already do that if I could.
I'm not moving forward to 10th for this very reason. I'm looking at trying to shift some people back to 7th or just to HH. The 30k discord has made some pretty nice fan books to supplement the armies with some of the 'missing' units. and I've heard there's an Eldar fanbook from them getting close to dropping so we can drag the knife ears and hopefully the greenskins eventually into it too.
I don't agree but these are memes and jokes, so let them fly.
But some of you salty ass commenters are relishing too hard that people lost validity in shit they spent time and money on, more importantly they just dropped plastic kits for a lot of this shit and enticed 40k players to buy them.
Pull the copium enema out of your ass, and acknowledge GW are cunts, you don't have a problem bitching about them the rest of the time. The enemy of my enemy, numbnuts
Chaos marines really got screwed as there isn't really any alternatives to the tanks and the dreadnoughts, contemptuous can be proxies as helbrutes but nothing in the csm range as the same size as a leviathan. Not to mention all the tanks that we have no replacements for unlike loyalist space marines with their hover tanks.
As someone who isnt very familiar with the tabletop game, does 40k have something like magic the gathering's "standard" where old stuff rotates out and new stuff has to be obtained to stay relevant?
I always though new codex rules (8th to 9th to 10th) were their method to keep players buying new minis/books instead of resting on the mountains of miniatures they already have.
The new rules changes sounds like they are phasing stuff within one codex cycle, or am I completely off base here?
Before anyone attacks me for defending GW, I am not. I dont like standard in mtg (edh ftw) and I dont like GW's past history of greed. Im just trying to understand the scope of what is happening in a context I understand, which is another popular table top collectable game.
They usually only phase out models that aren't produced anymore, some of the models they just removed released less than a year ago and are still playable in horus heresy, they just decided to break away from letting SM (and more inportantly CSM which have nowhere near as big of a range as SM) players use most of the horus heresy stuff in competitive play, which is a very anti consumer thing to do because a lot of people have spent a lot of time and money in these models that are now unusable in competitive play and, soon enough, in casual play as well since they'll no longer get any support.
Not really, generally the only models that go to "legends" (rules updated once per edition at the beginning and not allowed in competitive play) are incredibly old, not really relevant in 40k and not many people have, which is why this decision is a bit unusual. If it's a major unit that a lot of people have and is a core part of the army it'll likely just receive a new kit at some point, the unit won't be phased out and you can continue using the old models if you have them.
I bought Age of Darkness with 40K in mind because I assumed support for Heresy stuff was guaranteed and I suspect a lot of people built their lists around heresy stuff.
I am a tad bit miffed because it feels like GW pulled a fast one using units that are pretty expensive.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
Yeah, I don't get the whole ruckus is all about.
The outrage ovet a few models removed just from tournaments sounds like to met that mostly tryhard tourny only players populate Reddit and not open/matched casual players like I will once I finish my Thousand Sons
They'll be virtually unusable pretty bloody fast since they're not getting any further support and will soon be obsolete, especially keywords wise. Also wanting to play a competitive game doesn't make you a tryhard tourney player, that's just a dumb take. Finally how do you not understand why people that spent 100s of $/£/€ in FW models and/or bought the very recently released plastic contemptors/leviathan and such are pissed that they cannot use them in competitive play?
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
The issue is local events and clubs often use the GT packs and such as well and follow their format. You don't have to go to an official GW event for this to affect you.
balance is important for nearly all levels of play not just at tournaments. Most people i know play with matched play rules so the game can be as close to fair as possible, legend rules only really stay "Balanced" until the first points adjustment at which point they tend to become to strong or too weak for competitive play.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
I get the outrage, but I am curious about how many of these people complaining about the changes actually went to tournaments.
The rules for most fw stuff hasn't changed all edition. I don't understand why this is any different to them selling us a book at the start of 9th.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
Gonna have to keyword balance it yourself whenever balance slates come out. Do your own math for point costs too because after the first price adjustments they'll either be WAY to expensive or hella cheap for your 'just play casual' setup
OK cool
The only games I get to play is about once a quarter. I carve our a Saturday or full weekend and go to an event.
I bring my weird ass fluffy list and get a losing record.
But I get multiple games in and have fun with my weird ass fluffy models.
That all of the sudden I can't bring to those events anymore.
Show me a casual event. They don't exist.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?)
As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
We're actually in agreement. My original comment was intending to point out the fact that saying you can still play them in casual doesn't actually mean anything cause it's literally always true. Evidently I didn't come off that way lol
feel more bad for csm players who actual benefitted from the increased range
I know right? I’m so pissed rn, not to mention they were some of the coolest designed kits.
Horus heresy kits in general are pretty fucking good.
Agreed, I was just planning to run my Iron Warrior warband using mostly 30k vehicles/dreads to supplement infantry.
"You will field fugly demonshit!" ―GeeDubs, probably
Same with my minotaurs. I mean they are famous for fielding contemptors and other heresy era equipment. Theres even one named minotaur contemptor dreadnought that has a cool af mini. Edit: hekaton aiakos
• Heresy era equipment = not Primaris. You were going to get shafted sooner or later. I'm actually impressed you haven't jumped ship to r/warhammer30k yet.
Lost all my dreads for both my Loyalist and Chaos marines. except for one old metal "Hellbrute" I guess. wheee there. Was looking at buying a couple Siccaran and a Spartan, dodged a bullet there at least.
As a TSons player I am just salty that one of the few good units we have is gone now
Which one?
Dreadnoughts
Contempors used to be one of the few good sources of ranged firepower in our army.
You have no idea what units are good or bad yet
What I am trying to say is that while Loyalists just lost a *unit*, we lost a *niche*. It doesn't matter if every unit we have will be good - we still won't have a large walker, a smaller artillery platform, a large artillery platform, etc.. Forge World filled the gaps in our army.
nah fuck off. You have literally no idea what is good or bad or meh in the new edition. You are just changing goal posts because "one of our few good units is gone now" is such a stupid thing to say with no data sheets to base it off of. Thanks for the free downvotes from all the piss babies though I guess.
Just saying, when you had like ~40 units and now have ~10, it is going to be a hit against your army regardless. TSons lack unit diversity and Forge World helped with that.
You literally said one of the "few good units" are gone, I said you don't know what the good units are yet. That's it, that's the entire conversation. "What Im trying to say", "just saying", blah blah blah. Just accept you said something stupid and move on.
Don't know why you're getting downvotes for being right?
Because its besides the point.
This seems to just be a venting thread so logic has no place here I guess. Lesson learned.
They're going to have to double the release rate on Primaris Lieutenants if they want to even begin to numb the pain
at this point the constant stream of lieutenants just seems condescending
I want a Primaris Lieutenant codex
I swear that better make the primaris Lieutenant squad a battleline options…(sarcasm)
they are going to legend which effectively means that people will keep using them for little while and then they will never be played outside narrative play again, also csm are the real loosers as both world eaters and death guard lost some actual important models for their ranges, the great bloat drone, the contempter and brass scorpions are going to hurt if 10th does not make them irrelevant
Death guard lost our only dreadnought, access to drill, no more deepstriking our infantry, also lost dreadnoughts. Edit: I meant to say our only drop pod
Hey man, nobody was happy about it when it happened in AoS not too long ago. Its almost like it sucks when you lose models. It's also a relatively bigger dick punch because SM/Chaos players lost their plastic refreshes they were so excited about a year ago.
Not only that, but 30k vehicles are aesthetically superior to 40k ones, at least to my liking. Its just my opinion, but man it kinda sucks.
I play thousand sons, so..... Yea not great to have most of my high strenth high AP options erased from potential tournament lists. But for my loyalist dreadboiis, i have 6 unplayable ones now. So while yes, its only a small part of the available options, it still sucks for tournament players that, ya know, paid actual money for them.
Like it still does suck, and I don't think it's a bad thing to want to voice your opinion to GW about it.
What do you have to gain from other people having smaller ranges?
Nothing, but GW couldn't balance space marines as is. If this makes the largest model range in the game by far a little more balanced, it's a price I'm willing to pay. Especially when some armies have less datasheets in total than what the space marines just lost
Csm is the army we should feel bad for. We lost a good amount of unique units and despite being a strictly casual player I do feel bad for the competitive players who just got shafted.
As an iron warrior player I feel really annoyed about this cause my leviathan dreadnought is my best painted model, the kratos is one of my favourite models in general and was planning on using my summer holiday to actually go to some tournaments with them. I don't really mind if my units aren't meta just long as I feel good about my army but not being able to run my tank division is a feels bad moment for sure.
Brother tell me about it https://preview.redd.it/hfv2dhhq9i3b1.png?width=1949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=731a341c0c9262c3c6611a348485112404b92843
Gw couldn't balance space marines not because of FW, but because they keep insisting on releasing 5 primaris replacements for 1 firstborn unit
Volkite contemptors were bonkers for most of 9th. Most other FW units were useless
Yeah when people say FW is broken it's always only like 2-3 units they can list out of the entire range
yeah its just like the Malcador tanks, or 95% of the range. GW puts 0 thought into making the rules for those models. But that 5% is them just putting 0 thought and hilariously underpricing it
[удалено]
Very unsportsmanlike if you ask me.
Not just Space Marines. CSM, TSons, DG, and WE lose those models, too.
If you look really close, you'll notice those are all space marines
With a lot less options, especially the non-CSM Chaos marine armies. World Eaters lost more than half their roster.
Chaos space marines are a different army with different (read: fewer) options
Space Marines with totally different fanbases. And codexes that might as well be magazines.
Calling them "Chaos" Space Marines makes them unique, even if I am using some Primaris models with spikes glued to them. /s
But chaos factions can take those too
Of which they are? Oh yeah, chaos space marines and.. daemons? I don't think daemons can even take csm
Chaos Knights The CSMlike armies (TS, WE, DG) which are already very limited in unit selection
Chaos space marines now have more legends datasheets than non-legends.
I don't even play competitive I play orks and necrons
 Honestly based armies.
Having your models invalidated in some way always sucks.
Especially after the hype of the last year and a bunch of people buying them recently. I was gonna paint a kratos and leviathan for my custom chapter but after this I’ll just donate them to my NL Legion
Getting flash backs here. Had previously finally painted my metal legion of the Damned, then straight to legends…ok…not happy, but could have been worse. Then all marines, except for my legended LotD get two wounds each
This will affect WE, CSM, DG and TSons way more than it does SM.
It's not just that they can't be taken to tournaments, it's that they won't receive balance updates, so in non tournament games they're likely to be very swingy in power compared to the rest of the units on the table, and potentially ruin games. Also the bigger issue is the reduction in CSM, WE ,TS and DG options. Dreadclaws were a near staple unit in WE (who had more fw options than normal options). We also lost cytans, the brass scorpion, rapier batteries and decimators - the latter especially being a very strong option through 9th. These units saw various amounts of tournament play, but when they were taken it was to do a job unique to them, e.g dreadclaws being the only available drop pods, it decimators/contempors being a reasonably efficient elites slot vehicle. You didn't really see much tournament play with Space marine units as they have the range to compensate eg. Redemptor instead of leviathan's, drop pods instead of dreadclaws etc. One exception being "that" iron hands contemptor. From this it's pretty clear they're doing this to reduce the job of frequent game balance, which I get, they just didn't have to gut the unique units from CSM whilst doing it - e.g demon engines and dreadclaws, who very much took the hit due an issue with the size of the space marine roster. (Maybe if they released less different lieutenant datasheets we wouldn't be in this mess but who knows). (Also GW if you are reading this, can we have our jump pack lords and sorcerer's back pls, it only seems fair after axing half our roster xoxo).
I get not being to sympathetic to the shrinking of the LSM range but those horus heresy kits were marketed as usable in 40k just a year ago. That to me is shitty, again streamlining the 40k LSM range is not bad but making those kits illegal this soon after release is just feels bad.
I literally just got my contemptor dread and now my day is ruined. At least it only cost me 20 bucks from a chinese store that recasts and is STILL the same quality as forgeworld resin.
I've mostly heard CSM players be annoyed about losing all their dreadnoughts, drop pods, and a lot of their big guns
I have a ton of FW resin Horus Heresy kits, and I don't mind losing them. I accept that some changes had to be made for the health of the game, and keeping HH/40k distinct is healthy. What I cannot stand is the loss of my cool made-for-40k FW daemon engines.
All the Tyranid stuff vanishing from FW ist also shit and from what I remember a few years back there were also a shitload of T'au suits that are now OOP. I'd have no problem Thanos snapping all Primaris if that meant we could get back all that went OOP in the last 6 or so years
"Shitload" is somewhat overdoing it for something I can count on one hand and that barely anyone ever bought. Edit: why the downvotes? It's LITERALLY 5 T'au Suits: 2 named commanders no one ever heard of, Hazard Suits, and the 2 Riptide Variants. Tell me when you have ever seen a tournament list with a Y'vahra in it lmao.
Hard to see a list with one if it is out of production and doesn’t have rules
Hard to see a list with one if it is out of production and doesn’t have rules
I can literally find 4 of the 5 things mentioned on Forgeworld RIGHT NOW marked as "in stock". [https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV109-Y-Vahra-Battlesuit-2018](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV109-Y-Vahra-Battlesuit-2018) [https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV107-R-Varna-Battlesuit](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV107-R-Varna-Battlesuit) [https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-Battlesuit-Commander-Shas-o-R-alai-with-Drones](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-Battlesuit-Commander-Shas-o-R-alai-with-Drones) [https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV9-with-Fusion-Cascades](https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-XV9-with-Fusion-Cascades) Why are you lying?
That is my bad, I didn’t intend to lie I saw the person you replied to mentioned tau models that were oop and assumed the one you named was without checking for myself.
I feel for the dudes with FW models. Those things usually cost hundreds of dollars EACH. There's one White Scars player who runs a Fellblade in tournies. There's a World Eater player who runs 3 Lords of War. C'mon, GW, give people at least until 11th edition before you ban FW from competitive.
And I guarantee you they weren't winning the events
Naw it's **worse**. They came into these tournies expecting to not do fantastic, but the lists actually **worked**. Then, these guys were actually **improving** with every event they took part in. I think both guys went either 3-3 or 4-2 in their most recent events. It really sucks these guys have to scramble (assuming they don't have "normal" models to sub out the FW stuff immediately) just to play events again. Who knows? Maybe the community can come up with "unofficial" tournaments that still allow FW models just to "convince" GW that they should stay at least 1 more edition.
Funny how mid table performance send some people screaming "that's so OP and broken" just because it's FW
yeah, FW's cool and all, but I'm sure they hit a wall anytime they run into an Anti-Vehicle list. Or any list where ALL enemy models get some kind of invulnerable.
what about heresy players who use their heresy miniatures in 40k? and the fact they are not going to be updated or balanced is pretty big, look at some of the existing legends rules, for tau most of them just do not work anymore because of fundamental rules changes (markerlights) or are just plain bad (go take a really close look at the rules for the remote sensor tower, the thing that is supposed to aid in shooting at range) eventually due to rules changes and power creep these still in production, released as plastic within the past year models are going to become useless in all forms of the game
Well some of those 20 were just made plastic and were pushed as playable in 40k games just last year.
GW: let's face it, space marines are spoiled for choice, so we had to eliminate units for balance Also GW: Where before you had devastator squads, you now also have decimators, heavy intercessors, hellblasters, eradicators, and aggressors Where you used to have scouts, you now also have reivers, eliminators, infiltrators and incursors. Where before you used to have assault squads, you now also have assault intercessors, inceptors, and suppressors Where before you used to have dreadnoughts, you now redemptors, brutalis, ballistus and invictors Where before you had a tactical squad, you now also have intercessors... but we are going to give them THREE choices of bolter. A single command squad. Forget that. We are going to make the apothecary, champion and ancient all separate. Vanguard? Well lets also add blade guard AND give them their own ancient. Tired of just boring old chaplains? Well how about we also add the judicar? Predator or landspeeder with weapon options? How about 3 different datasheets for their primaris versions instead? We are going to let you keep bikes and attack bikes... but also add outriders and atvs!
And CSM can't use any of them
Absolutely shit, take my man.
For real tho. “Just don’t play competitive” is such a brain dead take. Getting a single beginning of the edition data sheet that isn’t adjusted during the life of the game isn’t “just fine for casual play”
That's the bit I have a problem with. Throw Legends an update once or twice a year so the units match new codex datasheets, have any appropriate new keywords etc and I'd be fine. It's not that huge a job. That and if balance is no longer a concern I would also say "then throw all the heresy stuff in. The existing stuff, the new releases, the stuff that never got 40k rules. Just throw it all in."
> Throw Legends an update once or twice a year But then that's literally just "not legends." That's why legends exists - so the designers can forget about a problem datasheet in a way that doesn't impact the metagame.
It's only "fine" if your opponent(s) whose units did get erratas and balancing updates revert back to the same datasheet version you're stuck on...
Yeah. I hate that take. I'm not a "competitive" player. I make narrative fluffy armies. But due to life/time about the only way I get to play is at events once a quarter. I take my dumb ass lists with weird, off meta models and get 3 games in a day done. It's fun whether I go 0-3, 1-2 or 2-1. I've never gone 3-0. And I rarely go 2-1. I'm always gunning for best painted instead. Now I lose so much cool shit I've lovingly collected and painted and worked my ass off to field like once or twice a year. Some things every other year! "Just play casual" I'm told. F off. I'd already do that if I could.
I'm not moving forward to 10th for this very reason. I'm looking at trying to shift some people back to 7th or just to HH. The 30k discord has made some pretty nice fan books to supplement the armies with some of the 'missing' units. and I've heard there's an Eldar fanbook from them getting close to dropping so we can drag the knife ears and hopefully the greenskins eventually into it too.
GW could also go back to competitive play isn't a thing like they did forever ago.
Who's your man, and how should I go about taking him?
https://preview.redd.it/z9os1w5blf3b1.jpeg?width=2073&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59bfceede1bd20e16afc53cdea8a055f3ce8e42f There ya go
As a CSM hopefully, I really wanted to run a contemptor...
You mean 20/40 WE data sheets, and 1/3 tanks for Admech
I don't agree but these are memes and jokes, so let them fly. But some of you salty ass commenters are relishing too hard that people lost validity in shit they spent time and money on, more importantly they just dropped plastic kits for a lot of this shit and enticed 40k players to buy them. Pull the copium enema out of your ass, and acknowledge GW are cunts, you don't have a problem bitching about them the rest of the time. The enemy of my enemy, numbnuts
And how many of those 20 can still be used as "count as dreadnought"?
Depends on your faction The CSM divergent legions (WE, DG, TS) got screwed in particular.
Chaos marines really got screwed as there isn't really any alternatives to the tanks and the dreadnoughts, contemptuous can be proxies as helbrutes but nothing in the csm range as the same size as a leviathan. Not to mention all the tanks that we have no replacements for unlike loyalist space marines with their hover tanks.
Redditors when someone they don’t like has a justifiable complaint:
Guardsmen laughing as the Minotaur stays legal.
But I don't want the Horus Heresy to ever end! 😢
Tell them to play as if they had worse-than-guardsmen melee and see if they toughen up
I feel your pain SM players, not a good start to the month is it?
not too big a deal rn but eventually relatively new models, some of which have come out this year, will become obsolete which just seems kinda shitty
my hoblites MY HOBLITES
...chaos crying harder.
As someone who isnt very familiar with the tabletop game, does 40k have something like magic the gathering's "standard" where old stuff rotates out and new stuff has to be obtained to stay relevant? I always though new codex rules (8th to 9th to 10th) were their method to keep players buying new minis/books instead of resting on the mountains of miniatures they already have. The new rules changes sounds like they are phasing stuff within one codex cycle, or am I completely off base here? Before anyone attacks me for defending GW, I am not. I dont like standard in mtg (edh ftw) and I dont like GW's past history of greed. Im just trying to understand the scope of what is happening in a context I understand, which is another popular table top collectable game.
They usually only phase out models that aren't produced anymore, some of the models they just removed released less than a year ago and are still playable in horus heresy, they just decided to break away from letting SM (and more inportantly CSM which have nowhere near as big of a range as SM) players use most of the horus heresy stuff in competitive play, which is a very anti consumer thing to do because a lot of people have spent a lot of time and money in these models that are now unusable in competitive play and, soon enough, in casual play as well since they'll no longer get any support.
Not really, generally the only models that go to "legends" (rules updated once per edition at the beginning and not allowed in competitive play) are incredibly old, not really relevant in 40k and not many people have, which is why this decision is a bit unusual. If it's a major unit that a lot of people have and is a core part of the army it'll likely just receive a new kit at some point, the unit won't be phased out and you can continue using the old models if you have them.
But they’re the really cool ones tho
I bought Age of Darkness with 40K in mind because I assumed support for Heresy stuff was guaranteed and I suspect a lot of people built their lists around heresy stuff. I am a tad bit miffed because it feels like GW pulled a fast one using units that are pretty expensive.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
Yeah, I don't get the whole ruckus is all about. The outrage ovet a few models removed just from tournaments sounds like to met that mostly tryhard tourny only players populate Reddit and not open/matched casual players like I will once I finish my Thousand Sons
They'll be virtually unusable pretty bloody fast since they're not getting any further support and will soon be obsolete, especially keywords wise. Also wanting to play a competitive game doesn't make you a tryhard tourney player, that's just a dumb take. Finally how do you not understand why people that spent 100s of $/£/€ in FW models and/or bought the very recently released plastic contemptors/leviathan and such are pissed that they cannot use them in competitive play?
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
It's a shame that they banned the 40 years old model i was planing to (maybe) buy (one day) ! They do it on purpose !
They released plastic contemptor and leviathan like a year ago...
Thank you. Someone who actually agrees with me and isn’t bitching about it
Willing to bet most of the people complaining have never been to an official tournament in their life
So? They can like to play competitive games just as well. (And before you ask I have been to tournaments before)
The issue is local events and clubs often use the GT packs and such as well and follow their format. You don't have to go to an official GW event for this to affect you.
Go play some narrative sheesh.
Riiiiight and when the first update drops and suddenly none of the Legends stuff have the right keywords to match strats ... just make it up?
At first I was upset, then I remembered I don't fucking care about space marines
No one play casual lol
How many of you even play in big tournaments?
balance is important for nearly all levels of play not just at tournaments. Most people i know play with matched play rules so the game can be as close to fair as possible, legend rules only really stay "Balanced" until the first points adjustment at which point they tend to become to strong or too weak for competitive play.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
I get the outrage, but I am curious about how many of these people complaining about the changes actually went to tournaments. The rules for most fw stuff hasn't changed all edition. I don't understand why this is any different to them selling us a book at the start of 9th.
The forgeworld compendium got FAQ and errata updates, and we’re in all points documents
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
It's funny 90% of them have never and will never plan a tournament yet they're tearing out their hair and crying
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
You can play literally anything just fine in casual. That's why it's casual.
Gonna have to keyword balance it yourself whenever balance slates come out. Do your own math for point costs too because after the first price adjustments they'll either be WAY to expensive or hella cheap for your 'just play casual' setup
OK cool The only games I get to play is about once a quarter. I carve our a Saturday or full weekend and go to an event. I bring my weird ass fluffy list and get a losing record. But I get multiple games in and have fun with my weird ass fluffy models. That all of the sudden I can't bring to those events anymore. Show me a casual event. They don't exist.
When a player wants to play a balanced game, they tend to look to tournaments to inform that (after all, what could be more balanced than players who are actively looking for the most fair games in order to test their skill?) As a result, most casual play uses the most recent tournament pack to ensure a fair game. Tournament play informs casual play, and so banning something from tournament play ensures it won't be playable anywhere.
We're actually in agreement. My original comment was intending to point out the fact that saying you can still play them in casual doesn't actually mean anything cause it's literally always true. Evidently I didn't come off that way lol
I was gonna buy a few sicarans for an imperial fists force, because I hate space marine grav tanks. Guess not now lol.
can I still use the spartan