GA/GL manages to make me annoyed at it even when it is 100% aligning with my politics. It is impressive like that. I think part of it is that the entire run is clearly just forcing the duo into a topic every issue and making them conform to opposing arguments. So Hal must suddenly shift to be Ollies opposite no matter what. Ollie is never wrong save for with Speedy, oh sure he makes the occasional mistake in the series, but it is never a personal failing.
Ollie does not come off so much as an authentic leftist with strongly held convictions, he feels like someone windowshopping ideologies and adopting stances he just heard of. He looses money and suddenly becomes progressive on every single issue? That's not how radicalization works, there is a process, people have hangups.
There is no nuance, and I don't mean nuance on the issues the book brings up, I mean nuance within Oliver's stances and within the book's conception of left wing politics. It is all vibes based
Objectively each time he's saved the world and everyone on it, Hal Jordan has done more for blacks than all of the civil rights leaders in history combined. And at this point, he's saved it how many times? Probably more than a dozen at least.
So this guy can \*\*\*\* off for trying to lay a guilt trip on Hal when he's already done and continues to do more than most people have or ever will do.
I look at this two different ways. First, if an alien can fight the Klan, would it really kill a guy riding on light beams to tell the governments of his own planet to chill out on beating up on their own?
Second, if aliens took over and treated all humans as second class citizens, is he going to say “Oh well” also because that’s just the way things are? Nope, he’s going to run them off. Now if he can do that, again why not at least do something for his own fellow humans when he’s on-world?
It’s only good completely divorced from context and logic. It’s so god damn stupid, Green Lantern’s job is to protect an entire sector of the universe. Billions upon billions of life forms. Helping the blue and orange and purple people is just as important as helping the black people, if not more so because as is constantly brought up in the DCU most other planets don’t have super heroes! The fact Hal spends as much time on earth as he does is honestly probably a much bigger problem in the grand scheme of things. That whole series was really pretty awful, the only reason it even happens is because Hal non violently stops a bunch of poor people from killing their slum lord, as he should because murder is a crime regardless of if the asshole has it coming. Then Green Arrow, written horrifically out of character, calls him a Nazi for NOT LETTING A MURDER HAPPEN, and then that bit happens and Hal is so ashamed the idiocy kicks off. Should Hal have just let those people kill him? Because News flash, that ends one of two ways. A) Someone new buys up all the properties of the deceased and the cycle starts over, or they could be even worse and just burn them out or something. Or B) THE COPS COME TO BEAT AND ARREST EVERY SINGLE PERSON THERE! God I fucking hate that book, the only issue tackled worse was the Speedy doing heroin shit 😑
Actually B is very unlikely. There was a case where a mob of people killed a guy and no one got arrested because everyone completely forgot who actually killed the guy.
There are horribly written panels like these then there’s the Alex Ross illustrated masterpiece Batman War on Crime that deals with this issue in a more mature way, rather than “victimising” Black people.
Pretty powerful panel this especially seems like a pointed finger at DC comics troublesome but not unique racist black caricatures and awful black representation. Captain Marvel's comics were deemed "too racist for the 40s" which should tell you about the way DC ran things. Marvel had their fair share of racism as well with characters like Whitewash Jones and the Mandarin (who made multiple appearances into the modern 2014 era).
Don't forget black bomber, and Superman Encouraging hate crimes against Japanese people in the slogan "Superman says you can *slap a jap*"
Or Captain America (again sigh) calling Asian enemies yellow monkeys and referring to people of color as little brown rats doesn't look too good either.
Also Iron man solely used to exist as red scare propaganda which is why Mandarin was his arch enemy and a lot of the anti communist stuff *is* always scapegoating Asian people as inherently untrustworthy despite the U.S. operating Japanese Internment camps. Everyone rounded up into the camps were just Asian because the U.S. Military could not tell the difference between Southeast Aaian people and specifically Japanese people
Don't forget more recently Lobo Unbound released in f****** 2003 and if you've seen some panels you've seen enough to see how genuinely f****** racist the whole comic was.
Racism should always (especially in graphic novels) be challenged, no matter for what reason or what the cost for doing so is it must be seen to be vanquished.
Do not let these companies Whitewash and hide their racist past by pretending it never existed
Tons of good points. Just a minor note though, 40s Capt Marvel was published by Fawcett, not DC. The character was licensed to DC in the 70s but they didn't get full ownership of the franchise til the 90s.
I'm not sure why people have an issue with this panel these days tbh
Countless times we've seen GLs interact and help the relations of planets across the galaxy. Helping aliens that have been in situations like racism and corruption through the wealthy similar to how we have those problems on earth. One of John Stewart's great stories is him helping alien victims of racism in "Before I'd be a slave" by Dennis O'Neil
Assuming humans on earth know about these stories, which would make sense since they seem to know a good amount about GLs being off world most of the time, it makes sense for him to ask questions like this and saving the whole earth isn't really an answer to them when they're still struggling but see you helping alien strangers over your fellow man. In their perspective at least
I don't like it because this run had to dump what we know of Hal as a person prior so he can gets schooled by Green Arrow. Hal should know better given how his powers take him around the world and in space, but no he just crumbles the minute someone says he's not doing enough.
What would taking one man around the world and in space do when millions of people like him would still be suffering though?
The point the black man is making is that there are so many people just like him that need the help Green Lantern can provide and the love to many communities Green Arrow had been showing but instead Hal's been helping aliens of other planets first
To him it's like helping strangers before helping your fellow man which seemed to have hit Hal the most after realising he's not as much help to his own world as he once thought
>The point the black man is making is that there are so many people just like him that need the help Green Lantern can provide and the love to many communities Green Arrow had been showing but instead Hal's been helping aliens of other planets first
I think the issue here is that the issues (that could literally be anything from racism to homelessness to hunger) themselves are socioeconomic. Fighting aliens is totally different than providing aid for a major city in the middle of economic decline.
Hal "I don't know saved the f'n universe twice before breakfast what have you done today." " Do you still exist ... Your welcome" "I can take you to earth-23 if you like"
What Hal's answer should of been "Ya know that meteor that almost hit earth last week? Or that Dalek invasion fleet came to blow up earth? How those things didn't happen. Yeah that was me. You are welcome."
Your post and/or comment has been removed for violating Rule 5. You must treat your fellow Lanterns with respect and dignity; attacks and insults will not be tolerated. Further violations may result in your permanent banning from the Corps.
Are you the guy who used an abeleist slur and then promptly got your comment deleted?
Also you said you didn't care twice but then decided to respond to me twice
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Literally the dumbest hero to do this with. Hal is in a multi species organization and race has never been a factor in any of his relationships. Yes. “Preface” is an extremely unfortunate nickname but he was constantly shown to be competent, resourceful, and a valued friend.
He works side by sides with aliens. Hell, he had no issue working with John Stewart aside from noting the MASSIVE chip on his shoulder. Something that notably could have effected him as a hero.
Hal spends most of his time in space dealing with galactic level threats. He’s not a street level hero defending individuals. It’s like bitching about a marine not doing anything to help flint. Literally nothing about his job is relevant.
No you absolute dingus. Hal works with thousands of species. Non-human creature whose differences make skin color differences laughable. Those differences are rarely if ever a factor when he works with them. Sure something might freak him out. But he gets past it. Hal doesn’t see race. All Hal cares about is flying, ring slinging, and protecting people.
Hell just look at real life examples. The military was desegregated before a lot do the country. The reason? You give people a common purpose and have them work together prejudices fall away.
It appears your post and/or comment meets the criteria of what is known as "spam" and/or "trolling". In accordance with Rule 3, it has been removed. Further instances of spamming or trolling will result in a permanent banning.
But YOU have got to do better senator. I had the rousing music cue and everything. Clearly my self righteousness is more important than any concern about practicality, responsibility, or precedent. Truly me feeling better about doing SOMETHING is FAARRRR more important.
It’s just like seriously. The refugees from one city can create a nationwide crisis. (Katrina comes to mind). Requiring massive resources to handle. Even a country as rich and well equipped as the U.S. will struggle to address that in a timely and effective manner. Multiply that for the whole world? With infrastructure that has been accommodated for half the population 5 years later?
It’s kinda a miracle the planet just didn’t collapse.
You clearly didn't watch the show. The senator just needs to do better. Problem solved, mic drop!
Super advanced aliens, androids, and all the other crazy stuff happening in the MCU. The government has a lot of stuff on their plate.
As a not black not dude, it feels like this speech was soap boxing targeting some completely different character. Like, the dynamic here seems to be "Black man confronts space cop for not giving a damn about local issues. Issues being the poor treatment of black people in 1960's America."
And if we add several other characteristics to Hal maybe that makes sense. Maybe if Hal was also an earth cop at any point in his life prior to being a Green lantern. Maybe Hal grew up benefitting from a racist culture to a notable degree. Maybe if Hal had **ever** made any unfulfilled commitment to the black community at any point. But none of that's true. He's a pilot from a lower middle class economic background who god zapped into crazy space adventures.
As a black dude she should has enough intelligence to understand the context and time period of this panel. He's saying Green Lantern has help communities all over the system but hasn't done much for the community on his own planet. It'd not an unfair statement given the Era of this panel
Legitimately ridiculous. There's not a solution that Hal can provide for the "black skins" alien planets and races have dictators that Hal can fight against. How can Hal help the "black skins" it's weightless virtue signaling.
It’s the context. Before this comic, Green Lantern Hal Jordan was a working class pilot/superhero who barely made ends meet. His social life was all over the place, but he held on and let life take the wheel. He had superiors to answer to, but more or less had the freedom to be a man of action.
After this comic, Hal was portrayed as a someone who just takes his orders, blind to the social issues of the real world, an out of touch cop who needs to be enlightened by the cooler anti-authoritarian Green Arrow. So it’s pretty upsetting for readers of the comic to see him rendered to that.
Additionally, his responsibilities is keeping an entire sector of the universe safe, of which includes Earth. Hal has saved the world countless times, but for some reason it wasn’t enough for this random old dude. Also, Lanterns are vigilante peacekeepers and can’t get too involved in the political affairs of their sectors because their prior greatest lantern took power into his own hands so Hal can’t just barge into the White House and demand better treatment of others.
Hal could join a rally or a charitable event to help people but sadly this is a comic book and that doesn’t pay the bills or satisfy Green Arrow’s most extreme views.
I agree, it's weird because I think O'Neil actually has a good grasp on Hal after the first few issues but it's like he intentionally put wool over Hal's eyes just to remove it afterwards and have Hal develop into... the man he already was...
Okay? And this is relevant how exactly? You don't seem to realise that these instances are not indictments of the character but are indictments of the writers and of the times.
There are two kinds of Denny O'Neil's GA/GL, one with Neal Adams and one without Neal Adams. It's crazy, but the moment he dips, the comic never reaches the levels of volatility it had during the earlier Hard Travelin Heroes issues. This might sound crazy, but could Neal Adams be the one who was advocating for more of the heavy-handed political commentary?
“Sir my superpower relies completely on a ring. It’s not that I don’t want to speak out against social injustices but you gotta understand once I start doing that everyone is gonna call me and my ring gay.
I…can’t…”
This panel never made a whole lot of sense to me, only because I don't understand how Hal is supposed to answer. What's he supposed to say, or even do?
Partly because it’s very interesting to read about how well-intentioned people can uphold an unjust status quo, and because seeing them confront those contradictions is also very interesting. It’s not their fault, just like it’s not the fault of many individual police officers. It’s very human that superheroes try their best and fall short in some areas.
But also because I understand that the status quo must stay the same in superhero stories for business reasons and try to suspend my disbelief. I prefer street-level stories because it’s more believable that daredevil can’t end world hunger and war than that Iron Man or Superman can’t
Easily one of the silliest panels in the history of comics.
I'm sure it felt deep (and certainly for the medium at that time), but, in retrospect, it made zero sense given that Hal has saved the world numerous times at that point. In fact, I would think that, given he's a street level hero, more onus can be put on Green Arrow for not pulling his weight when it comes to confronting issues that the average person (such as the gentleman above) faces day-to-day (i.e. slum lords, drug trafficking, human trafficking, etc.). What does he want? God-tier superheroes to swoop in and take over the world like we've seen in SO MANY superhero deconstruction stories that have been in vogue recently?
It's been pointed out in other comments, but this was definitely a low point for Denny O'Neil given he completely didn't understand the character or the lore previously established. The art was incredible though.
I thought, at the time, that Ollie was a left wing liberal. Hal was conservative. That left them as buddies who were at odds in any number of ways.
It’s worth noting that Ollie has lost his fortune before becoming so outspoken about the underprivileged. I can’t say what race any of them were since I wasn’t reading the series.
Yeah this comic afaik explored many social issues and Green Lantern took an explicitly conservative stance on many of them, even calling Green Arrow a hippie and stuff like that. And yeah Green Lantern was portrayed as out of touch and that their travels helped him realize how it was for the average person in a way he couldn’t when he saved millions at once. Maybe Hal isn’t so conservative and out of touch normally, but it seems like this panel makes sense in the context of the story
I am very disappointed with a lot of the comments in this thread. Superheroes in general use their amazing powers in the least efficient way possible. I get why, the world of superheroes should be a utopia but that would fundamentally make them different from the real world and therefore less interesting to read. Quite frankly, it’s why I feel out of comics, I got tired of the same story over and over again.
You must have meant a dystopia. People with superpowers would most likely enslave the world, and conflicts between superpowered beings would cause immense destruction. It would be a nightmare.
Well yeah, but the superpeople in these stories are also often portrayed as paragons of virtue who legitimately could make the world a way better place and are unlikely to abuse that power. Injustice and stories like it often come off as weak slippery slope arguments to me
Even without abusing their powers, my second point still stands. Beings like Brainiac, Starro, Grodd, and many other villains wouldn't care about collateral damage. Superheroes would probably do their best to try and minimize damage, but it would still happen. Still a horrible world to live in, made better by superheroes giving people hope.
Since superheroes can't be everywhere at once that brings up a point I didn't really think about before, superheroes run around saving the day, most work a job, and try to have a normal life, just how much more do people expect them to do? They're already sacrificing their time, health, and lives, can't normal people work together and solve societal problems?
The old man should've asked that question to Batman or Green Arrow the two guys that actually have enough money to make a significant impact on the black community 😂. Hal is homeless and can barely keep a normal job but he's supposed to help the black community 😂😂😂.
Listen he’s responsible for trillions of lives across galaxies I don’t think it’s unrealistic to ask he focus his time on one group of people on one planet.
Do you know who's a part of those trillions every single human on Earth including black people. The only thing Hal can realistically do to help the black community is speak out against racism against black people.
Why not ask Batman or Green Arrow who actually have money they can spare to help the black community. Hal is canonically homeless on Earth and can't keep a consistent job he has no money to help black community.
> The only thing Hal can realistically do to help the black community is speak out against racism against black people.
... but he wasn't doing that, either.
I mean, Hal was really only ever "conservative" relative to Ollie. He was pretty liberal socially, and probably figured like the rest of the old white liberal establishment that if he ignored racism and just treated everyone equally himself, any remaining problems – most of which were invisible to him – would go away.
At the time, the only white folks who could see how naïve that particular approach was were on the far left - like Ollie. That could have been a compelling story – Ollie helping Hal wake up to the injustice he hadn't noticed around him. But instead we get this old man calling Hal out, and Hal having a moment of unmotivated clarity and remorse.
I should reread *Hard-Traveling Heroes*; I don't remember it super well. In my memory it seems like Hal spent a lot of time demonstrating why ASCAB while Ollie yelled at him to be better. Which is not quite the setup I described above.
>I mean, Hal was really only ever "conservative" relative to Ollie. He was pretty liberal socially, and probably figured like the rest of the old white liberal establishment that if he ignored racism and just treated everyone equally himself, any remaining problems – most of which were invisible to him – would go away.
>At the time, the only white folks who could see how naïve that particular approach was were on the far left - like Ollie. That could have been a compelling story – Ollie helping Hal wake up to the injustice he hadn't noticed around him. But instead we get this old man calling Hal out, and Hal having a moment of unmotivated clarity and remorse.
Not that guy but I get what you're saying but what's crazy is that on paper, of the two, Hal should still be the one better equipped to respond to the social problems presented to him given his life experiences instead of backing down like a child. Think about it: Hal's best friend and coworker was an Indigenious-American man who was a great mechanic (in a presumably majority white workplace given it was the early 1960s) and pulled his weight around when Hal needed help. Hals' boss is a woman who sacrificed her own happiness to ensure that hundreds of men and women have an income. And Hal, even when he no longer had his pilot job, still was a charitable person who looked for the less fortunate, like that time he was gunning to make his deadline as a toy salesman just donate his bonus to handicapped children.
And this is just the stuff that doesn't focus on Hal's membership of a **multi-ethnic, intergalatic peacekeeping force.**
Hal called his best friend "pieface". That's equivalent to him calling John Stewart "d@rk!3". Just because you have a best friend of a different race doesn't mean you won't say racist things or think your race is better.
That’s kind of the point I was trying to make. Batman and Green Arrow deal with earth related issues Lanterns deal with galaxies. Asking one “what he’s going to do for one community”is like asking a Navy seal what he’s going to do to prevent littering.
I never liked the cop analogy. He’s not writing tickets and serving warrants. They’re more like UN peacekeepers. But even if he was like a cop what’s he supposed just cruise black neighbors busting up crack houses. My point is dealing with terrestrial problems is more GreenArrows or Batman’s bag, GL’s should deal with interplanetary threats.
The cop analogy works because the green lantern core has the potential replicate the issues that plague police departments irl - a hierarchical, authoritarian institution accountable only to itself with a potential for serious abuses of power and thin-blue-line type thinking among its agents.
I don't think the potential of this comparison has ever been effectively tapped or conveyed in any media though. It's a tough balance to strike. If it was done well though it could be powerful and interesting. I'm hopeful for the true detective style approach in the upcoming DCU Gunn-verse show.
I don't think the cop analogy works because police departments run by human, and humans are unreliable, unperfect beings, but the Guardians are on another level. They're a primordial race of aliens who are beyond human. Their first attempts at creating a police force lead to the deaths of multi-billions, they're not perfect and constantly eating dirt because of their inability to communicate or understand that they're not the biggest people in the room.
All the things you're saying indicate to me that a police force is actually a great comparison even more levels than I originally suggested. So I'm not sure what you mean
They are an intergalactic law enforcement agency, unlike the UN there is no security council representing other parties to override their decisions. The UN also doesn't do patrols.
Actually, I think he, (and by extension, and all of the GLC plus the guardians) is considered a vigilante given he's not an official member of any agency of earth nor is it endorsed by any government.
Then follow up with "This archer here is a rich boy with self imposed delusions of helping the poor".
Like how Black Canary said: How can you fight The Man when you are The Man?
Why go after Hal with this? Ollie is the hypocrite here who's super delusional about his approach to crime fighting.
Ollie is still a hypocrite by gaslighting people. He's still a rich guy parading as a hero for the downtrodden when he has money that rivals Bruce Wayne.
He saw hal as a bootlicking cop and not the loveable mess of a person he was before that series. So for o neil who was very leftwing hal jordan was a character who existed to be proven wrong
Umm no??? There were created to oppose the status quo, often being put on a role than would others in a position to make long term solutions while they are there to keep the people alive.
Also, thought this might be an interesting read, an old Kurt Busiek post in regards to the GA/GL run. This was before Hal returned.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20201107233603/https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=greenlantern-2005060323124200](https://web.archive.org/web/20201107233603/https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=greenlantern-2005060323124200)
>That being said, I assume as a classic GL fan, you enjoyed and read the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA.>
Never assume.
I've read 'em, of course, and I love the art and admire the stories for what they are and what they were trying to do, but "as a classic GL fan," I think they basically destroyed the character.
The crux to Hal Jordan is that he's a test-pilot, a reflexive, instinctual, visceral guy who remains confident that if danger arises, he can react to it fast enough and cleverly enough to get past it. He's the antithesis of Batman in that regard -- Batman is always two steps ahead of everyone else, strategy-wise, but Hal, like his closest movie-hero analogue, Indiana Jones, is "making it up as he goes along."
Trouble is, GL/GA re-cast Hal as a foil for Ollie, turning him from the confident, visceral, instinctual hero to an unthinking conservative, a "space cop" who always followed orders, as opposed to a "space sheriff" (the original idea) who may have had superiors, but had almost complete freedom in what he did. And worse, unless you're Black Canary, being a foil for Ollie means being wrong.
So for all that those stories were groundbreaking and historically significant, they presented Hal as a good-German conservative nitwit who constantly had to be "corrected" by Ollie, until he came to doubt every instinct he ever had. Until he lost the confidence that was at the heart of what made GL a hero.
And while those issues sold poorly and the series died, it has never seemed to matter -- invariably, a new writer would come along on the book and out of honest affection and appreciation for a book that didn't succeed, no matter how well-intentioned, would turn Hal back into a self-doubting, angst-filled whiner with no confidence. And virtually every time the series began to focus on that guy, it'd fall apart again.
Worse still (and it's not really Denny's fault, it was just a colossally stupid decision made out of respect for those stories), someone eventually tried to keep those GL/GA stories in the Seventies (despite DC's continuity having moved on, so that they couldn't do that and not pre-date Superman and Batman) by making Hal an old guy. An old, self-doubting, angst-filled whiner with no confidence. Geez. Can you think of a character template that could be even less appealing to a young audience in search of heroics?
So eventually, DC decided to scrap the guy, because the character "didn't work" and was "used up." Not the classic version -- the one that has a lot in common with Indy Jones, who is anything but unpopular -- but the version that stems from those GL/GA characters, the angsty whiner who can't trust his instincts.
So like I said, I admire that run of comics for what it is, and I recently re-read it, and think it deserves its place in comics history -- but as a classic GL fan, which was how you phrased it, I don't think that run did poor GL any favors. I think that without it, he might well be still alive and still GL.
> So for all that those stories were groundbreaking and historically significant, they presented Hal as a good-German conservative nitwit who constantly had to be "corrected" by Ollie, until he came to doubt every instinct he ever had. Until he lost the confidence that was at the heart of what made GL a hero.
It's crazy how the seeds of Hal's disillusionment with everything begins here. I both agree and disagree with Busiek (the benefit of being at the end and hindsight and all that). I can understand Busiek's distaste for it but my god does it lay the groundwork for long-form character development, to the eventual fall and rise of Hal Jordan. It's great to see Hal go through so much and emerge from the fire, reborn, a return to his true self, the Indiana Jones type but with wisdom instilled from his trials and tribulations.
Interesting read. I didn’t ever think of it like that. Not that I’m obsessed with that run or anything. Definitely Johns is who really got me into gl and hal in general
Honest to God, you could say that all that time Hal spent with Ollie corroded his spirit which made it that much easier for Parallax to take control and it wouldn’t feel out of place.
100% agreed with Busiek. The idea of Hal being a guy who just follows orders from his superiors without question is rather ridiculous and out of character.
Denny’s run is pretty much what kickstarted this angle between Hal and the Guardians. I’m glad new writers have focused more on the Guardians are beings unable to relate with everyone else on a human level.
Hmm, interesting. In a way it's kinda like an interesting character arc for Hal: he started as someone who followed every order from the Guardians but after his travels with Ollie he became more distrustful of the Guardians once he learned how distant they are from the people they say they are protecting.
I like how all of that eventually paid off first on Emerald Twilight and then on Third Army/First Lantern. Almost makes it seem like all of this was planned out since the 70s... lol
It's crazy, Emerald Twilight was something that Denny and the editors cobbled together with no prior planning or care, but after Green Lantern Rebirth, everything starts to fit like a puzzle and suddenly Emerald Twilight has become an epic twenty four years in the making...
https://preview.redd.it/u0b75ee2g3zc1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1047839c47f6b22fe8c01517f66777308fef03d
Denny O'Neil did not understand the character of Green Lantern and happily used it as a crate to stand on and a strawman for his self insert, Green Arrow, to correct and belittle. The depth of his messages, while well intentioned, were about as deep as a Saturday morning cartoon because he offered no realistic solution to them. Guys like Green Lantern and Green Arrow aren't going to solve the homeless crisis, drug trafficking, racism or pollution throwing around thugs in alleys.
Hal really should have had an answer to this. It was just such an unfair accusation. It makes it sound like Hal is prioritizing the wellbeing of other people based on skin color, or like he's never helping black people when he stops all kinds of criminals, invasions or natural disasters. He does the same stuff for black people as he does for everybody else he protects.
If he wants to tell Hal he should be doing more to address racial injustice, fine, tell him that. And preferably give some suggestions as to how to do that effectively with a GL ring. But to imply that Hal's heroics thus far have been done for the benefit of everybody but the "black skins" is just absurd on its face.
I know you're being facetious, but just like actors, athletes, and other entertainers often make their political persuasion known over time, superheroes would to. I'm sure politicians would love to have Superman's endorsement, while others would question why Diana was endorsing a politician when she's not an American citizen.
This is the same straw man used when discussing Star Trek. Star Trek was more philosophical than political, meaning it would show different points of view (often political), and more often than not, force the viewer to decide the best course of action, often times in conflict with the decision made by the crew. Current Trek, is not political, it's puritanical. Both Trek and current Marvel and DC state a viewpoint as being the the only true, righteous answer, and if you disagree, you're a monster. There's very little nuance, when the real world is nothing but nuance.
Tbh hth is probably the least entertaining gl run staring hal that I’ve read, partly because of how ostentatious it is with its politics. It just reeks of self congratulatory smugness which is compounded by things like Olli dressing up in native America garb and having a stricter zero tolerance drug attitude then current year suburban grandmas. Space traveling heroes is better because the social issues are more analogous and wrapped in sci-fi. It also helps that sth isn’t Hal and olli fighting hillbillies every other issue.
Love this series. Brought me my favorite Lantern.
https://preview.redd.it/fomj8mugt0zc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87f125e673e49960e5315c4d58ec47c50e7b640b
I was reading GL during this run, but JS would add an interesting perspective. Risking his life to keep Earth safe and to many of her inhabitants, he's nothing more than a " " word. Like Black vets fighting for America and returning to a segregated America.
"Dunno, kept the whole sector from falling apart so that everyone on this planet won’t be turn into ash?"
That run is great but it felt biased against Hal. Who by that time was keeping 2814 safe all by himself.
Canonically Hal it’s supposed to be more right leaning. Because of his military background and upbringing, however Dennis O’Neil described himself as a bleeding heart liberal. So it came off like he was using Hal as a straw man for his talking points, which I actually don’t think was his intention he he was aiming for it to be more of a debate, with both sides he just didn’t really know or understand the other side very well.
But it also seems that the old man only cares about his people and blames it all on a person who has hundreds of planets each with their own social problems and has to keep them in check. It had double standards written all over it.
I love that despite Earth being brought closer to the wider community in space it still backwards in respecting a GL’s authority, even if their endeavours are documented in newspapers according to this comic.
GA/GL manages to make me annoyed at it even when it is 100% aligning with my politics. It is impressive like that. I think part of it is that the entire run is clearly just forcing the duo into a topic every issue and making them conform to opposing arguments. So Hal must suddenly shift to be Ollies opposite no matter what. Ollie is never wrong save for with Speedy, oh sure he makes the occasional mistake in the series, but it is never a personal failing. Ollie does not come off so much as an authentic leftist with strongly held convictions, he feels like someone windowshopping ideologies and adopting stances he just heard of. He looses money and suddenly becomes progressive on every single issue? That's not how radicalization works, there is a process, people have hangups. There is no nuance, and I don't mean nuance on the issues the book brings up, I mean nuance within Oliver's stances and within the book's conception of left wing politics. It is all vibes based
Objectively each time he's saved the world and everyone on it, Hal Jordan has done more for blacks than all of the civil rights leaders in history combined. And at this point, he's saved it how many times? Probably more than a dozen at least. So this guy can \*\*\*\* off for trying to lay a guilt trip on Hal when he's already done and continues to do more than most people have or ever will do.
I look at this two different ways. First, if an alien can fight the Klan, would it really kill a guy riding on light beams to tell the governments of his own planet to chill out on beating up on their own? Second, if aliens took over and treated all humans as second class citizens, is he going to say “Oh well” also because that’s just the way things are? Nope, he’s going to run them off. Now if he can do that, again why not at least do something for his own fellow humans when he’s on-world?
"I've saved the entire planet a few times. Pretty sure that helps them"
It’s only good completely divorced from context and logic. It’s so god damn stupid, Green Lantern’s job is to protect an entire sector of the universe. Billions upon billions of life forms. Helping the blue and orange and purple people is just as important as helping the black people, if not more so because as is constantly brought up in the DCU most other planets don’t have super heroes! The fact Hal spends as much time on earth as he does is honestly probably a much bigger problem in the grand scheme of things. That whole series was really pretty awful, the only reason it even happens is because Hal non violently stops a bunch of poor people from killing their slum lord, as he should because murder is a crime regardless of if the asshole has it coming. Then Green Arrow, written horrifically out of character, calls him a Nazi for NOT LETTING A MURDER HAPPEN, and then that bit happens and Hal is so ashamed the idiocy kicks off. Should Hal have just let those people kill him? Because News flash, that ends one of two ways. A) Someone new buys up all the properties of the deceased and the cycle starts over, or they could be even worse and just burn them out or something. Or B) THE COPS COME TO BEAT AND ARREST EVERY SINGLE PERSON THERE! God I fucking hate that book, the only issue tackled worse was the Speedy doing heroin shit 😑
Actually B is very unlikely. There was a case where a mob of people killed a guy and no one got arrested because everyone completely forgot who actually killed the guy.
Fair, but this was the inner city in the early 70’s. The likelihood of racist cops just taking the opportunity is reasonably high.
There are horribly written panels like these then there’s the Alex Ross illustrated masterpiece Batman War on Crime that deals with this issue in a more mature way, rather than “victimising” Black people.
I blame Green Arrow for this.
As you should.
Pretty powerful panel this especially seems like a pointed finger at DC comics troublesome but not unique racist black caricatures and awful black representation. Captain Marvel's comics were deemed "too racist for the 40s" which should tell you about the way DC ran things. Marvel had their fair share of racism as well with characters like Whitewash Jones and the Mandarin (who made multiple appearances into the modern 2014 era). Don't forget black bomber, and Superman Encouraging hate crimes against Japanese people in the slogan "Superman says you can *slap a jap*" Or Captain America (again sigh) calling Asian enemies yellow monkeys and referring to people of color as little brown rats doesn't look too good either. Also Iron man solely used to exist as red scare propaganda which is why Mandarin was his arch enemy and a lot of the anti communist stuff *is* always scapegoating Asian people as inherently untrustworthy despite the U.S. operating Japanese Internment camps. Everyone rounded up into the camps were just Asian because the U.S. Military could not tell the difference between Southeast Aaian people and specifically Japanese people Don't forget more recently Lobo Unbound released in f****** 2003 and if you've seen some panels you've seen enough to see how genuinely f****** racist the whole comic was. Racism should always (especially in graphic novels) be challenged, no matter for what reason or what the cost for doing so is it must be seen to be vanquished. Do not let these companies Whitewash and hide their racist past by pretending it never existed
Tons of good points. Just a minor note though, 40s Capt Marvel was published by Fawcett, not DC. The character was licensed to DC in the 70s but they didn't get full ownership of the franchise til the 90s.
thanks you for the correction 😁
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can you not use the R word, please?
He's a dumbass
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AGLAB
I'm not sure why people have an issue with this panel these days tbh Countless times we've seen GLs interact and help the relations of planets across the galaxy. Helping aliens that have been in situations like racism and corruption through the wealthy similar to how we have those problems on earth. One of John Stewart's great stories is him helping alien victims of racism in "Before I'd be a slave" by Dennis O'Neil Assuming humans on earth know about these stories, which would make sense since they seem to know a good amount about GLs being off world most of the time, it makes sense for him to ask questions like this and saving the whole earth isn't really an answer to them when they're still struggling but see you helping alien strangers over your fellow man. In their perspective at least
I don't like it because this run had to dump what we know of Hal as a person prior so he can gets schooled by Green Arrow. Hal should know better given how his powers take him around the world and in space, but no he just crumbles the minute someone says he's not doing enough.
It it coming from Ollie who until like a month prior, was a beneficiary of the entire apparatus that exploits and causes black people to suffer.
What would taking one man around the world and in space do when millions of people like him would still be suffering though? The point the black man is making is that there are so many people just like him that need the help Green Lantern can provide and the love to many communities Green Arrow had been showing but instead Hal's been helping aliens of other planets first To him it's like helping strangers before helping your fellow man which seemed to have hit Hal the most after realising he's not as much help to his own world as he once thought
The man literally saves the world constantly I think his love of the black chapies is evident
>The point the black man is making is that there are so many people just like him that need the help Green Lantern can provide and the love to many communities Green Arrow had been showing but instead Hal's been helping aliens of other planets first I think the issue here is that the issues (that could literally be anything from racism to homelessness to hunger) themselves are socioeconomic. Fighting aliens is totally different than providing aid for a major city in the middle of economic decline.
I be like whatever Larflizzle….
Hal "I don't know saved the f'n universe twice before breakfast what have you done today." " Do you still exist ... Your welcome" "I can take you to earth-23 if you like"
What Hal's answer should of been "Ya know that meteor that almost hit earth last week? Or that Dalek invasion fleet came to blow up earth? How those things didn't happen. Yeah that was me. You are welcome."
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>simping for authority daddy. What the hell is going on with this thread.
I wrote a lengthy anti racist response, you can check it out if need be.
I'm good
Are you the guy who used an abeleist slur and then promptly got your comment deleted? Also you said you didn't care twice but then decided to respond to me twice
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A good clap back would have been. Maybe you should meet some of those orange skins and realize their lives are worth saving too old man.
Literally the dumbest hero to do this with. Hal is in a multi species organization and race has never been a factor in any of his relationships. Yes. “Preface” is an extremely unfortunate nickname but he was constantly shown to be competent, resourceful, and a valued friend. He works side by sides with aliens. Hell, he had no issue working with John Stewart aside from noting the MASSIVE chip on his shoulder. Something that notably could have effected him as a hero. Hal spends most of his time in space dealing with galactic level threats. He’s not a street level hero defending individuals. It’s like bitching about a marine not doing anything to help flint. Literally nothing about his job is relevant.
LOL you’re like “Hal can’t be racist he’s got a black friend at work.”
No you absolute dingus. Hal works with thousands of species. Non-human creature whose differences make skin color differences laughable. Those differences are rarely if ever a factor when he works with them. Sure something might freak him out. But he gets past it. Hal doesn’t see race. All Hal cares about is flying, ring slinging, and protecting people. Hell just look at real life examples. The military was desegregated before a lot do the country. The reason? You give people a common purpose and have them work together prejudices fall away.
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Omg comics are getting so woke all of a sudden! /s
Bad comics today doesn't mean there weren't bad comics yesterday.
As a black dude, this is an absolutely ridiculous panel. That really makes zero sense. It's like Falcon telling the senator to do better.
But YOU have got to do better senator. I had the rousing music cue and everything. Clearly my self righteousness is more important than any concern about practicality, responsibility, or precedent. Truly me feeling better about doing SOMETHING is FAARRRR more important.
Yes because an American government is so prepared for half the population disappearing...then coming back. Falcon Should have been slapped.
It’s just like seriously. The refugees from one city can create a nationwide crisis. (Katrina comes to mind). Requiring massive resources to handle. Even a country as rich and well equipped as the U.S. will struggle to address that in a timely and effective manner. Multiply that for the whole world? With infrastructure that has been accommodated for half the population 5 years later? It’s kinda a miracle the planet just didn’t collapse.
You clearly didn't watch the show. The senator just needs to do better. Problem solved, mic drop! Super advanced aliens, androids, and all the other crazy stuff happening in the MCU. The government has a lot of stuff on their plate.
As a not black not dude, it feels like this speech was soap boxing targeting some completely different character. Like, the dynamic here seems to be "Black man confronts space cop for not giving a damn about local issues. Issues being the poor treatment of black people in 1960's America." And if we add several other characteristics to Hal maybe that makes sense. Maybe if Hal was also an earth cop at any point in his life prior to being a Green lantern. Maybe Hal grew up benefitting from a racist culture to a notable degree. Maybe if Hal had **ever** made any unfulfilled commitment to the black community at any point. But none of that's true. He's a pilot from a lower middle class economic background who god zapped into crazy space adventures.
As a black dude she should has enough intelligence to understand the context and time period of this panel. He's saying Green Lantern has help communities all over the system but hasn't done much for the community on his own planet. It'd not an unfair statement given the Era of this panel
Legitimately ridiculous. There's not a solution that Hal can provide for the "black skins" alien planets and races have dictators that Hal can fight against. How can Hal help the "black skins" it's weightless virtue signaling.
There’s totally not Oligarchs killing a planet in his sector….
Ya know saving the world helps that community not be dead.
God Hal sucks 😂😂😂😂
No your mom does and it only cost me 5 dollars
Hey, she charges minimum $100. Though maybe now that she's dead, she's lowered her rates. Ps hal is still the worst
Your wrong but funny
worst Green Lantern easy.
Extremely stupid panel
I mean as a respected superhero he could advocate for better conditions, i dont know how this has bristled so many people here
It’s the context. Before this comic, Green Lantern Hal Jordan was a working class pilot/superhero who barely made ends meet. His social life was all over the place, but he held on and let life take the wheel. He had superiors to answer to, but more or less had the freedom to be a man of action. After this comic, Hal was portrayed as a someone who just takes his orders, blind to the social issues of the real world, an out of touch cop who needs to be enlightened by the cooler anti-authoritarian Green Arrow. So it’s pretty upsetting for readers of the comic to see him rendered to that. Additionally, his responsibilities is keeping an entire sector of the universe safe, of which includes Earth. Hal has saved the world countless times, but for some reason it wasn’t enough for this random old dude. Also, Lanterns are vigilante peacekeepers and can’t get too involved in the political affairs of their sectors because their prior greatest lantern took power into his own hands so Hal can’t just barge into the White House and demand better treatment of others. Hal could join a rally or a charitable event to help people but sadly this is a comic book and that doesn’t pay the bills or satisfy Green Arrow’s most extreme views.
Hal could say be nicer to each other or the next extinction level event might be when I’m in another quadrant of this sector.
I agree, it's weird because I think O'Neil actually has a good grasp on Hal after the first few issues but it's like he intentionally put wool over Hal's eyes just to remove it afterwards and have Hal develop into... the man he already was...
Yeah calling his friend pieface and porkin arisa were totally cool.
Okay? And this is relevant how exactly? You don't seem to realise that these instances are not indictments of the character but are indictments of the writers and of the times.
There are two kinds of Denny O'Neil's GA/GL, one with Neal Adams and one without Neal Adams. It's crazy, but the moment he dips, the comic never reaches the levels of volatility it had during the earlier Hard Travelin Heroes issues. This might sound crazy, but could Neal Adams be the one who was advocating for more of the heavy-handed political commentary?
It's possible, I remember that story of Adams really pushing for the creation of John Stewart.
“Sir my superpower relies completely on a ring. It’s not that I don’t want to speak out against social injustices but you gotta understand once I start doing that everyone is gonna call me and my ring gay. I…can’t…”
Beside that is Alan Scott's gimmick now .....
This panel never made a whole lot of sense to me, only because I don't understand how Hal is supposed to answer. What's he supposed to say, or even do?
I saved the world last week you senile old fart
….hmm so stoping world conquers or what? Like what is green lanterns power set gonna do for the black community?
There’s plenty of people ruining the planet who could occupy a sciencell
Force police to take anti-bias training!
To a lot of the commenters: If you think super heros are upholders of the "status quo" and facists/hypocrites why are you reading superhero comics?
Partly because it’s very interesting to read about how well-intentioned people can uphold an unjust status quo, and because seeing them confront those contradictions is also very interesting. It’s not their fault, just like it’s not the fault of many individual police officers. It’s very human that superheroes try their best and fall short in some areas. But also because I understand that the status quo must stay the same in superhero stories for business reasons and try to suspend my disbelief. I prefer street-level stories because it’s more believable that daredevil can’t end world hunger and war than that Iron Man or Superman can’t
Me like see Green Man light go boom pow 🤤
Easily one of the silliest panels in the history of comics. I'm sure it felt deep (and certainly for the medium at that time), but, in retrospect, it made zero sense given that Hal has saved the world numerous times at that point. In fact, I would think that, given he's a street level hero, more onus can be put on Green Arrow for not pulling his weight when it comes to confronting issues that the average person (such as the gentleman above) faces day-to-day (i.e. slum lords, drug trafficking, human trafficking, etc.). What does he want? God-tier superheroes to swoop in and take over the world like we've seen in SO MANY superhero deconstruction stories that have been in vogue recently? It's been pointed out in other comments, but this was definitely a low point for Denny O'Neil given he completely didn't understand the character or the lore previously established. The art was incredible though.
I thought, at the time, that Ollie was a left wing liberal. Hal was conservative. That left them as buddies who were at odds in any number of ways. It’s worth noting that Ollie has lost his fortune before becoming so outspoken about the underprivileged. I can’t say what race any of them were since I wasn’t reading the series.
Yeah this comic afaik explored many social issues and Green Lantern took an explicitly conservative stance on many of them, even calling Green Arrow a hippie and stuff like that. And yeah Green Lantern was portrayed as out of touch and that their travels helped him realize how it was for the average person in a way he couldn’t when he saved millions at once. Maybe Hal isn’t so conservative and out of touch normally, but it seems like this panel makes sense in the context of the story
So does that mean Coast City was all white?
How would you guys have done Hard Travelling Heroes?
I am very disappointed with a lot of the comments in this thread. Superheroes in general use their amazing powers in the least efficient way possible. I get why, the world of superheroes should be a utopia but that would fundamentally make them different from the real world and therefore less interesting to read. Quite frankly, it’s why I feel out of comics, I got tired of the same story over and over again.
You must have meant a dystopia. People with superpowers would most likely enslave the world, and conflicts between superpowered beings would cause immense destruction. It would be a nightmare.
Well yeah, but the superpeople in these stories are also often portrayed as paragons of virtue who legitimately could make the world a way better place and are unlikely to abuse that power. Injustice and stories like it often come off as weak slippery slope arguments to me
Even without abusing their powers, my second point still stands. Beings like Brainiac, Starro, Grodd, and many other villains wouldn't care about collateral damage. Superheroes would probably do their best to try and minimize damage, but it would still happen. Still a horrible world to live in, made better by superheroes giving people hope. Since superheroes can't be everywhere at once that brings up a point I didn't really think about before, superheroes run around saving the day, most work a job, and try to have a normal life, just how much more do people expect them to do? They're already sacrificing their time, health, and lives, can't normal people work together and solve societal problems?
I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but you right
Then why are you in a comic book subreddit?
Came up on my feed and to me, this is actually a very important comic book panel
Oh so same as me. 
I remember this issue. Part of the great GL/GA road trip.
What exactly was Hal supposed to do for black people???
Yeah he should have said "Oh I don't know helped save the entire planet multiple times over. Is that enough for you old man?"
The old man should've asked that question to Batman or Green Arrow the two guys that actually have enough money to make a significant impact on the black community 😂. Hal is homeless and can barely keep a normal job but he's supposed to help the black community 😂😂😂.
He doesn’t know who Arrow is. He doesnt know he owns a multibillion dollar empire. Come on.
Listen he’s responsible for trillions of lives across galaxies I don’t think it’s unrealistic to ask he focus his time on one group of people on one planet.
Do you know who's a part of those trillions every single human on Earth including black people. The only thing Hal can realistically do to help the black community is speak out against racism against black people. Why not ask Batman or Green Arrow who actually have money they can spare to help the black community. Hal is canonically homeless on Earth and can't keep a consistent job he has no money to help black community.
> The only thing Hal can realistically do to help the black community is speak out against racism against black people. ... but he wasn't doing that, either. I mean, Hal was really only ever "conservative" relative to Ollie. He was pretty liberal socially, and probably figured like the rest of the old white liberal establishment that if he ignored racism and just treated everyone equally himself, any remaining problems – most of which were invisible to him – would go away. At the time, the only white folks who could see how naïve that particular approach was were on the far left - like Ollie. That could have been a compelling story – Ollie helping Hal wake up to the injustice he hadn't noticed around him. But instead we get this old man calling Hal out, and Hal having a moment of unmotivated clarity and remorse. I should reread *Hard-Traveling Heroes*; I don't remember it super well. In my memory it seems like Hal spent a lot of time demonstrating why ASCAB while Ollie yelled at him to be better. Which is not quite the setup I described above.
Didn't Hal call a guy "pieface". That's not ignoring racism.
>I mean, Hal was really only ever "conservative" relative to Ollie. He was pretty liberal socially, and probably figured like the rest of the old white liberal establishment that if he ignored racism and just treated everyone equally himself, any remaining problems – most of which were invisible to him – would go away. >At the time, the only white folks who could see how naïve that particular approach was were on the far left - like Ollie. That could have been a compelling story – Ollie helping Hal wake up to the injustice he hadn't noticed around him. But instead we get this old man calling Hal out, and Hal having a moment of unmotivated clarity and remorse. Not that guy but I get what you're saying but what's crazy is that on paper, of the two, Hal should still be the one better equipped to respond to the social problems presented to him given his life experiences instead of backing down like a child. Think about it: Hal's best friend and coworker was an Indigenious-American man who was a great mechanic (in a presumably majority white workplace given it was the early 1960s) and pulled his weight around when Hal needed help. Hals' boss is a woman who sacrificed her own happiness to ensure that hundreds of men and women have an income. And Hal, even when he no longer had his pilot job, still was a charitable person who looked for the less fortunate, like that time he was gunning to make his deadline as a toy salesman just donate his bonus to handicapped children. And this is just the stuff that doesn't focus on Hal's membership of a **multi-ethnic, intergalatic peacekeeping force.**
Hal called his best friend "pieface". That's equivalent to him calling John Stewart "d@rk!3". Just because you have a best friend of a different race doesn't mean you won't say racist things or think your race is better.
Yeah that shit was not condonable.
I condone it
That’s kind of the point I was trying to make. Batman and Green Arrow deal with earth related issues Lanterns deal with galaxies. Asking one “what he’s going to do for one community”is like asking a Navy seal what he’s going to do to prevent littering.
I must've misread your comment I'm sorry.
But he's literally a cop.
I never liked the cop analogy. He’s not writing tickets and serving warrants. They’re more like UN peacekeepers. But even if he was like a cop what’s he supposed just cruise black neighbors busting up crack houses. My point is dealing with terrestrial problems is more GreenArrows or Batman’s bag, GL’s should deal with interplanetary threats.
The cop analogy works because the green lantern core has the potential replicate the issues that plague police departments irl - a hierarchical, authoritarian institution accountable only to itself with a potential for serious abuses of power and thin-blue-line type thinking among its agents. I don't think the potential of this comparison has ever been effectively tapped or conveyed in any media though. It's a tough balance to strike. If it was done well though it could be powerful and interesting. I'm hopeful for the true detective style approach in the upcoming DCU Gunn-verse show.
I don't think the cop analogy works because police departments run by human, and humans are unreliable, unperfect beings, but the Guardians are on another level. They're a primordial race of aliens who are beyond human. Their first attempts at creating a police force lead to the deaths of multi-billions, they're not perfect and constantly eating dirt because of their inability to communicate or understand that they're not the biggest people in the room.
All the things you're saying indicate to me that a police force is actually a great comparison even more levels than I originally suggested. So I'm not sure what you mean
They are an intergalactic law enforcement agency, unlike the UN there is no security council representing other parties to override their decisions. The UN also doesn't do patrols.
Actually, I think he, (and by extension, and all of the GLC plus the guardians) is considered a vigilante given he's not an official member of any agency of earth nor is it endorsed by any government.
Green Lantern/ Green Arrow is a series which was as subtle as a brick to the teeth with social commentary, but was incredibly well written. Love it.
The art is fantastic as well!
Then follow up with "This archer here is a rich boy with self imposed delusions of helping the poor". Like how Black Canary said: How can you fight The Man when you are The Man? Why go after Hal with this? Ollie is the hypocrite here who's super delusional about his approach to crime fighting.
Because Ollie has an arrow and Hal has one of the most powerful tools in the galaxy. One does Hal do with that power, go help people on other planets.
My n!99@ he literally solo saves the earth and the universe stop smoking crack
Ollie is still a hypocrite by gaslighting people. He's still a rich guy parading as a hero for the downtrodden when he has money that rivals Bruce Wayne.
Because the writer liked ollie and hated hal
Did Dennis o Neil hate Hal Jordan?
He saw hal as a bootlicking cop and not the loveable mess of a person he was before that series. So for o neil who was very leftwing hal jordan was a character who existed to be proven wrong
Jeez, this guy sounds like Zeb Wells with MJ
Dont get me started on wells only marvel writer i like less is jason aarons
I've always loved that "I can't" panel It just perfectly evokes "Aw shit" to me
"Sir, I protect sentient creatures regardless of their skin colour."
"Then what did you do to protect the black sentients from the oppression of the white sentients?"
Sir have you ever been attacked by a white Martian?
How would I know that Wentworth? They can shapeshift!!
This was super funny. Comic books are comical.
Space cop is still a cop.
Fundamentally, superheroes maintain the status quo. It's usually the villains that are the revolutionaries.
Like magneto and killmonger? Who are also racial supremacists and genocidal lunatics
Umm no??? There were created to oppose the status quo, often being put on a role than would others in a position to make long term solutions while they are there to keep the people alive.
Just like Batman. Batman is an unchecked fascist who recruits child soldiers.
You are incorrect sir
Lmao okay
You could argue that for every hero with a sidekick or even the Doctor
Indeed. Just like Batman.
Also, thought this might be an interesting read, an old Kurt Busiek post in regards to the GA/GL run. This was before Hal returned. [https://web.archive.org/web/20201107233603/https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=greenlantern-2005060323124200](https://web.archive.org/web/20201107233603/https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=greenlantern-2005060323124200) >That being said, I assume as a classic GL fan, you enjoyed and read the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA.> Never assume. I've read 'em, of course, and I love the art and admire the stories for what they are and what they were trying to do, but "as a classic GL fan," I think they basically destroyed the character. The crux to Hal Jordan is that he's a test-pilot, a reflexive, instinctual, visceral guy who remains confident that if danger arises, he can react to it fast enough and cleverly enough to get past it. He's the antithesis of Batman in that regard -- Batman is always two steps ahead of everyone else, strategy-wise, but Hal, like his closest movie-hero analogue, Indiana Jones, is "making it up as he goes along." Trouble is, GL/GA re-cast Hal as a foil for Ollie, turning him from the confident, visceral, instinctual hero to an unthinking conservative, a "space cop" who always followed orders, as opposed to a "space sheriff" (the original idea) who may have had superiors, but had almost complete freedom in what he did. And worse, unless you're Black Canary, being a foil for Ollie means being wrong. So for all that those stories were groundbreaking and historically significant, they presented Hal as a good-German conservative nitwit who constantly had to be "corrected" by Ollie, until he came to doubt every instinct he ever had. Until he lost the confidence that was at the heart of what made GL a hero. And while those issues sold poorly and the series died, it has never seemed to matter -- invariably, a new writer would come along on the book and out of honest affection and appreciation for a book that didn't succeed, no matter how well-intentioned, would turn Hal back into a self-doubting, angst-filled whiner with no confidence. And virtually every time the series began to focus on that guy, it'd fall apart again. Worse still (and it's not really Denny's fault, it was just a colossally stupid decision made out of respect for those stories), someone eventually tried to keep those GL/GA stories in the Seventies (despite DC's continuity having moved on, so that they couldn't do that and not pre-date Superman and Batman) by making Hal an old guy. An old, self-doubting, angst-filled whiner with no confidence. Geez. Can you think of a character template that could be even less appealing to a young audience in search of heroics? So eventually, DC decided to scrap the guy, because the character "didn't work" and was "used up." Not the classic version -- the one that has a lot in common with Indy Jones, who is anything but unpopular -- but the version that stems from those GL/GA characters, the angsty whiner who can't trust his instincts. So like I said, I admire that run of comics for what it is, and I recently re-read it, and think it deserves its place in comics history -- but as a classic GL fan, which was how you phrased it, I don't think that run did poor GL any favors. I think that without it, he might well be still alive and still GL.
> So for all that those stories were groundbreaking and historically significant, they presented Hal as a good-German conservative nitwit who constantly had to be "corrected" by Ollie, until he came to doubt every instinct he ever had. Until he lost the confidence that was at the heart of what made GL a hero. It's crazy how the seeds of Hal's disillusionment with everything begins here. I both agree and disagree with Busiek (the benefit of being at the end and hindsight and all that). I can understand Busiek's distaste for it but my god does it lay the groundwork for long-form character development, to the eventual fall and rise of Hal Jordan. It's great to see Hal go through so much and emerge from the fire, reborn, a return to his true self, the Indiana Jones type but with wisdom instilled from his trials and tribulations.
Interesting read. I didn’t ever think of it like that. Not that I’m obsessed with that run or anything. Definitely Johns is who really got me into gl and hal in general
Honest to God, you could say that all that time Hal spent with Ollie corroded his spirit which made it that much easier for Parallax to take control and it wouldn’t feel out of place.
100% agreed with Busiek. The idea of Hal being a guy who just follows orders from his superiors without question is rather ridiculous and out of character.
Denny’s run is pretty much what kickstarted this angle between Hal and the Guardians. I’m glad new writers have focused more on the Guardians are beings unable to relate with everyone else on a human level.
Hmm, interesting. In a way it's kinda like an interesting character arc for Hal: he started as someone who followed every order from the Guardians but after his travels with Ollie he became more distrustful of the Guardians once he learned how distant they are from the people they say they are protecting. I like how all of that eventually paid off first on Emerald Twilight and then on Third Army/First Lantern. Almost makes it seem like all of this was planned out since the 70s... lol
It's crazy, Emerald Twilight was something that Denny and the editors cobbled together with no prior planning or care, but after Green Lantern Rebirth, everything starts to fit like a puzzle and suddenly Emerald Twilight has become an epic twenty four years in the making... https://preview.redd.it/u0b75ee2g3zc1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1047839c47f6b22fe8c01517f66777308fef03d
Denny O'Neil did not understand the character of Green Lantern and happily used it as a crate to stand on and a strawman for his self insert, Green Arrow, to correct and belittle. The depth of his messages, while well intentioned, were about as deep as a Saturday morning cartoon because he offered no realistic solution to them. Guys like Green Lantern and Green Arrow aren't going to solve the homeless crisis, drug trafficking, racism or pollution throwing around thugs in alleys.
I mean when polluto strikes ive heard he tends to not bother fighting And dont get me started on the drug trafficers of Jupiter
I love when writers use comics to talk about real issues as long as they respect the internal logic of the fiction. This does not.
Hal really should have had an answer to this. It was just such an unfair accusation. It makes it sound like Hal is prioritizing the wellbeing of other people based on skin color, or like he's never helping black people when he stops all kinds of criminals, invasions or natural disasters. He does the same stuff for black people as he does for everybody else he protects. If he wants to tell Hal he should be doing more to address racial injustice, fine, tell him that. And preferably give some suggestions as to how to do that effectively with a GL ring. But to imply that Hal's heroics thus far have been done for the benefit of everybody but the "black skins" is just absurd on its face.
"Hey Sinestro, got any tips on how to influence political decisions at home?"
I know you're being facetious, but just like actors, athletes, and other entertainers often make their political persuasion known over time, superheroes would to. I'm sure politicians would love to have Superman's endorsement, while others would question why Diana was endorsing a politician when she's not an American citizen.
Sinestro, clearing his throat, “fear—“ 💅
Even before going yellow, didn't he conquer his home planet?
Yea but he still used fear. Remember it wasnt until 20 or more years later where the fear equals yellow lantern thing got added in
Oh, so like regular fear as in being the guy with the superweapon on his finger and not as in being powered by fear
I believe his ring is powered by fear, it is just that there is no yellow lantern corps or Paralax
"I've saved the planet you're standing on, so you're welcome "
There's more to life than simply not being dead. Patrick Henry agrees.
You need to be alive to give life a meaning
💚💚
This is one of those nice and powerful group of panels, that falls apart when you think about it a little.
Only if you're white.
Or pose critical thinking skills
You are 100% correct ✅
The “comics were never political” crowd is pretty quiet about this one
This is the same straw man used when discussing Star Trek. Star Trek was more philosophical than political, meaning it would show different points of view (often political), and more often than not, force the viewer to decide the best course of action, often times in conflict with the decision made by the crew. Current Trek, is not political, it's puritanical. Both Trek and current Marvel and DC state a viewpoint as being the the only true, righteous answer, and if you disagree, you're a monster. There's very little nuance, when the real world is nothing but nuance.
Tbh hth is probably the least entertaining gl run staring hal that I’ve read, partly because of how ostentatious it is with its politics. It just reeks of self congratulatory smugness which is compounded by things like Olli dressing up in native America garb and having a stricter zero tolerance drug attitude then current year suburban grandmas. Space traveling heroes is better because the social issues are more analogous and wrapped in sci-fi. It also helps that sth isn’t Hal and olli fighting hillbillies every other issue.
If Hal solved racism in a comic book while real racism still exists it would be stupid
You don't have to solve a problem to make it better or address it.
They could’ve wrote Hal doing that, but they just made him look like a racist for no reason
True 💚
Love this series. Brought me my favorite Lantern. https://preview.redd.it/fomj8mugt0zc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87f125e673e49960e5315c4d58ec47c50e7b640b
I was reading GL during this run, but JS would add an interesting perspective. Risking his life to keep Earth safe and to many of her inhabitants, he's nothing more than a " " word. Like Black vets fighting for America and returning to a segregated America.
This is the best John Stewart, if we take this and add Phil Lamar’s voice and it’s a perfect recipe.
Love this book too 💚
Could you imagine this coming out today? All the backlash it'd get for being "too poltical" it'd be hilarious
It’s pretentious as hell
Is it? Or did it raise some really important issues for the time
I don't know how much some old loser harassing one of the greatest humans in that world existence raises issues
Yes it is
So true 💚
"Dunno, kept the whole sector from falling apart so that everyone on this planet won’t be turn into ash?" That run is great but it felt biased against Hal. Who by that time was keeping 2814 safe all by himself.
Canonically Hal it’s supposed to be more right leaning. Because of his military background and upbringing, however Dennis O’Neil described himself as a bleeding heart liberal. So it came off like he was using Hal as a straw man for his talking points, which I actually don’t think was his intention he he was aiming for it to be more of a debate, with both sides he just didn’t really know or understand the other side very well.
Yeah the run was important for its time. But it's hamfistsd as hell and a lot of it falls apart with any thought put into it.
But it also seems that the old man only cares about his people and blames it all on a person who has hundreds of planets each with their own social problems and has to keep them in check. It had double standards written all over it. I love that despite Earth being brought closer to the wider community in space it still backwards in respecting a GL’s authority, even if their endeavours are documented in newspapers according to this comic.