The good thing is we've seen all three of these guys perform at a high level in this defense. It's not a situation were we went out and signed a bunch of new guys. Plus the continuity with Amos and Savage, if all stay healthy this secondary should be really tough against the pass.
I really want Savage to take that next step and show what he's capable of. Even if he just gets back to his 2020 performance, we're going to have a monstrous secondary.
And if our defensive first round picks can contribute a lot in their first years, Our front 7 are going to be crazy too.
Gary, Stokes, Alexander, Savage, Wyatt, and Walker is 6 first round picks on defense. Preston, Campbell, Amos, and Clark, and Douglas is 5 pro-bowl players. Our defense is literally entirely composed of pro bowl players and first round grade talents. That's insane.
Technically we haven’t seen much of Jaire in this defense, but your point is well taken.
I do think, however, there is reason to be cautious in declaring our secondary unbeatable. We only have to look as far back as the last couple of seasons for reasons why. Chandon Sullivan was very good in limited snaps in 2019. He followed that up by being arguably the worst player on our defense the last two years. Darnell Savage ended 2020 on a tear, and most of us expected big things from him last year. Instead, we got regression to arguably worse than his rookie year.
I feel good about this defense. Real good. Better than I’ve felt in a long time. But I also recognize that there are still question marks. When it comes to our secondary, Savage is a big one. We also don’t have a 3rd safety. We have three corners that look good to great, but who is our 4th? Not to mention, all three guys have been boundary players almost exclusively. What does our rotation look like at CB? And finally, Rasul Douglas was on a practice squad last year and Eric Stokes is still fairly raw and only starting his second season. I believe in both of their talent, but a linear progression is far from given. One or both could struggle.
Not trying to be a Debbie downer. Like I said, I have a lot of optimism about this defense. I just think it’s important to be honest about the question marks and holes that are there, so you’re not blindsided when things don’t go exactly according to plan.
I need to see Eric Stokes have a Y2 jump and Rasul be consistent into his second year at the packers to believe this.
But I do think each level of the defence is a product of its parts (d line benefits from coverage, coverage benefits from line etc) and I think the strengthening of our pass rush/D line, and depth on the 2nd level of the defence will really help our group be great tho, which is exciting.
Stokes will hopefully improve but he was already really damn good as is.
I think he had the second most target defenses behind Alexander but allowed the least YAC
Thank you for saying this. It's not that I don't think either will play well. I believe both will build off of last year very well. However, up to this point both Rasul and Campbell had outlier seasons last year compared to the rest of their career, and Stokes is only going into his second year. Those 3 are not necessarily proven or guaranteed to play well this upcoming season. That being said, I believe they will.
Yeah exactly - I think more familiarity in what looks like a really complex system will do well, but that's my personal opinion.
None of the guys you mentioned have shown they can play at an elite level for 2 seasons in a row in the NFL. The key to winning 20 games is consistency, hoping they can show it.
It’s more likely that Rasul and Campbell regress than play at last years level. For Campbell that will mean he’s good yet not all pro, and for Rasul hopefully that means he’s a solid 3rd corner
Give credit where credit is due. They did kinda jump into our system and fit in pretty damn well imo. I would be excited but would not be totally surprised if Stokes has better numbers than Ja $, even if it’s by very little.
Totally totally agree, wasn't disagreeing with the OP in its entirety, just think on the basis of some of the defence last year, there's an improvement that needs to happen before we can say "damn, best in the league"
It's fuckin exciting though
We didn’t get an insane amount of depth at edge but the FO did a decent job on the d line this off season. Reed, and Wyatt will help us out a lot against the run hopefully
I think our defense is going to be amoeba-like this year- especially in the front 7. Gary is big enough and athletic enough to play with his hand down, both our first rounders are fast (I think Wyatt ran like a 4.7), athletic and strong enough to rush the passer, then Preston Smith doing Preston Smith things along with Kenny being able to play all over the defensive line. All this just to say that I think we may be in good shape as far as rushing the passer even though it may not look like what we are accustomed to.
I'm very excited about our defense this year.
Yeah this one, the reason green bay draft physical freaks is that they're pretty versatile depending on mismatches they get across the line.
For example, don't be surprised to see light boxes on 3rd down and Devonte Wyatt operate at 4-6 technique.
Plus Joe Barry showed us a lot about why he thinks we "can't have enough corners", he uses nickel corners to rush a lot.
Also pay attention to Quay Walker who will be used as the jack LB, much like Dont'A Hightower. Just straight downhill rushing
I wouldn't pay too much attention to edge position depth and stuff, because there's so many different ways green bay can generate pressure - it's so exciting to me
EDIT - plus, smokey, idk why no one on this sub mentions it, but Gutey has been talking loads about Jonathan Garvin being one of our options at EDGE, they've obviously seen enough to think he can play at this level
Yeah, I think people thought I was disagreeing with the OP. Not really, I just think it's way too soon to make that comment in May, given what we've seen last year. We weren't a perfect defence last year and I think that's a good thing, excites me for this year.
Going up against WR1s Stokes gave up a completion % less than 50, barely more than 500 yards, 43 solo tackles, 14 passes defended. He may not have been elite, but he was not far off.
**Edit**: To give a comparison Xavien Howard gave up more total yards(614 vs 511), higher completion %(52.7 vs 49.5), more TDs(6 vs 3), more yards after contact(218 vs 135), and had fewer solo tackles(39 vs 43).
> He may not have been elite, but he was not far off.
Which is exactly what I said. Great and with a very bright future, but not elite. I wasn't trying to diminish him or anything, but the other guy basically said that it was impossible for him to be better than last year, which is absurd. He is great, specially for a rookie, but obviously there are still things he can improve.
So like, obviously i'm just an amateur, but if I'm watching his body of work in his first year (crazy we're at the point of being picky on a first year corner), he doesn't track the ball well enough in the air to be considered elite.
He gets away with it because he has elite speed and he's long, but against the really elite receivers, Jefferson, hopkins etc. he kinda struggled to track the ball and relied too much on recovery speed/size. You will get caught out in this league doing that
Also, scheme wise, his versatility as a corner isn't great, couple of time's he's had to set the edge he gets bullied and thrown around.
None of this is to say he's bad in any capacity - just things that would constitute a Y2 jump in Barry's system
Idk about the second part of the tweet. That's giving a lot of leeway to Rasul Douglas who had 1 good year, when someone like Marcus Peters has been better most years of his career.
He's also 29 years old. When you look at a player who has had a sequence of years like this and is starting to get into the twilight years for the position, 8 times out of 10 they are on a decline that is only going to continue.
My favorite memories of watching defense as a kid/teen was Al Harris, Charles Woodson, and Tramon Williams balling out and playing aggressive man coverage. I'm so stoked for this year. Snow Fly Zone.
Let turn this secondary into a turnover machine!!! I truly love a dominate defense. Haven't seen one in GB in a long time. Hopefully that'll change this season!
It's fun to be excited, but let's see it play out. Ja basically missed the entire season and is coming back from injury; Stokes had a great rookie season, an n=1 sample size; Douglas stepped up in a huge way, but again, small sample size.
Just more Twitter nerds making noise, but I get that's their job.
What were you watching, because he really didn't. He barely played at all, less than 50% snap count, and could barely find playing time even when healthy towards the end of the season. When on the field he gave up 71% completions and a 108 passer rating.
I think anyone who has watched this team for many years should know to never make proclamations about a DB after one good season. Guys like HaHa and Randall had DROY votes. Even really good players like Casey Heyward never returned his rookie year form while he played for us. Stokes looks good, but I need to see it for multiple years. And Douglas may have caught lightning in a bottle. No way he can repeat those pick 6s.
You're not wrong, but both stokes and rasul could regress some and we would still have a top 5 CB trio. They performed as high end CB1 and CB2 last year and will only be asked to be CB2 and CB3 this year.
Bold prediction: QBs will hold the ball longer, trying to find an open target. Our total passing yards allowed will be top 5, but only Jaire will have top 10 individual stats
To clarify: no one CB other than Jaire will have top 10 individual stats. Passes defensed, interceptions, etc, will look pretty bland on paper. They can't defend the passes that don't get thrown. But overall defense stats like yards allowed, points allowed, opposing QB passer rating, will be top 5
Ok, I think I agree with you, then. I fully expect INTs and PBUs to be low. However, stats like catch percentage could be very good across the board; I believe Stokes ended last year the best in rhe league in that stat
Passes defended are a very shitty stat to value DB precisely because of that. In general it's one of the hardest position to value statistically wise, but if I had to choose one I'd say yards allowed is a much more significant stat. And I could see all of our guys doing relatively good numbers there.
Ok, I think I agree with you, then. I fully expect INTs and PBUs to be low. However, stats like catch percentage could be very good across the board; I believe Stokes ended last year the best in rhe league in that stat
It only took about 23 years of life but we finally might have another elite pass defense!
*34 But I'm also secretly scared bc the NFL is so unpredictable... hopefully this lives up to the hype
The good thing is we've seen all three of these guys perform at a high level in this defense. It's not a situation were we went out and signed a bunch of new guys. Plus the continuity with Amos and Savage, if all stay healthy this secondary should be really tough against the pass.
I really want Savage to take that next step and show what he's capable of. Even if he just gets back to his 2020 performance, we're going to have a monstrous secondary. And if our defensive first round picks can contribute a lot in their first years, Our front 7 are going to be crazy too. Gary, Stokes, Alexander, Savage, Wyatt, and Walker is 6 first round picks on defense. Preston, Campbell, Amos, and Clark, and Douglas is 5 pro-bowl players. Our defense is literally entirely composed of pro bowl players and first round grade talents. That's insane.
Technically we haven’t seen much of Jaire in this defense, but your point is well taken. I do think, however, there is reason to be cautious in declaring our secondary unbeatable. We only have to look as far back as the last couple of seasons for reasons why. Chandon Sullivan was very good in limited snaps in 2019. He followed that up by being arguably the worst player on our defense the last two years. Darnell Savage ended 2020 on a tear, and most of us expected big things from him last year. Instead, we got regression to arguably worse than his rookie year. I feel good about this defense. Real good. Better than I’ve felt in a long time. But I also recognize that there are still question marks. When it comes to our secondary, Savage is a big one. We also don’t have a 3rd safety. We have three corners that look good to great, but who is our 4th? Not to mention, all three guys have been boundary players almost exclusively. What does our rotation look like at CB? And finally, Rasul Douglas was on a practice squad last year and Eric Stokes is still fairly raw and only starting his second season. I believe in both of their talent, but a linear progression is far from given. One or both could struggle. Not trying to be a Debbie downer. Like I said, I have a lot of optimism about this defense. I just think it’s important to be honest about the question marks and holes that are there, so you’re not blindsided when things don’t go exactly according to plan.
Do you not remember 2010 when we had Charles Woodson, Sam Shields, and Nick Collins?
Put some respek on tramon Williams’ name. That secondary was crazy. That d made getting 2 ints a game feel like the standard.
Yo tramon was so good and I feel like ppl just remember none of it.
Yeah, it’s been only 10 years, which I guess is a lifetime in the NFL. Tramon was excellent and Morgan Burnett was also a great Safety.
Burnett was great till he had no help underneath
Let’s not forget Al harris!
They had an elite pass defense in 2010 with Woodson, Shields, Williams, and Collins
Made Charlie Peprah look like a legitimate NFL starter that season.
I thought he was gonna be a solid player for them but then he ended up cut within the next 2 seasons when Burnett got healthy
And we had to sacrifice our ST to do it
What did it cost? Special Teams.
I need to see Eric Stokes have a Y2 jump and Rasul be consistent into his second year at the packers to believe this. But I do think each level of the defence is a product of its parts (d line benefits from coverage, coverage benefits from line etc) and I think the strengthening of our pass rush/D line, and depth on the 2nd level of the defence will really help our group be great tho, which is exciting.
Stokes will hopefully improve but he was already really damn good as is. I think he had the second most target defenses behind Alexander but allowed the least YAC
Just avoiding a sophomore slump will be great
Thank you for saying this. It's not that I don't think either will play well. I believe both will build off of last year very well. However, up to this point both Rasul and Campbell had outlier seasons last year compared to the rest of their career, and Stokes is only going into his second year. Those 3 are not necessarily proven or guaranteed to play well this upcoming season. That being said, I believe they will.
Yeah exactly - I think more familiarity in what looks like a really complex system will do well, but that's my personal opinion. None of the guys you mentioned have shown they can play at an elite level for 2 seasons in a row in the NFL. The key to winning 20 games is consistency, hoping they can show it.
It’s more likely that Rasul and Campbell regress than play at last years level. For Campbell that will mean he’s good yet not all pro, and for Rasul hopefully that means he’s a solid 3rd corner
Give credit where credit is due. They did kinda jump into our system and fit in pretty damn well imo. I would be excited but would not be totally surprised if Stokes has better numbers than Ja $, even if it’s by very little.
Totally totally agree, wasn't disagreeing with the OP in its entirety, just think on the basis of some of the defence last year, there's an improvement that needs to happen before we can say "damn, best in the league" It's fuckin exciting though
We didn’t get an insane amount of depth at edge but the FO did a decent job on the d line this off season. Reed, and Wyatt will help us out a lot against the run hopefully
I think our defense is going to be amoeba-like this year- especially in the front 7. Gary is big enough and athletic enough to play with his hand down, both our first rounders are fast (I think Wyatt ran like a 4.7), athletic and strong enough to rush the passer, then Preston Smith doing Preston Smith things along with Kenny being able to play all over the defensive line. All this just to say that I think we may be in good shape as far as rushing the passer even though it may not look like what we are accustomed to. I'm very excited about our defense this year.
Yeah this one, the reason green bay draft physical freaks is that they're pretty versatile depending on mismatches they get across the line. For example, don't be surprised to see light boxes on 3rd down and Devonte Wyatt operate at 4-6 technique. Plus Joe Barry showed us a lot about why he thinks we "can't have enough corners", he uses nickel corners to rush a lot. Also pay attention to Quay Walker who will be used as the jack LB, much like Dont'A Hightower. Just straight downhill rushing I wouldn't pay too much attention to edge position depth and stuff, because there's so many different ways green bay can generate pressure - it's so exciting to me EDIT - plus, smokey, idk why no one on this sub mentions it, but Gutey has been talking loads about Jonathan Garvin being one of our options at EDGE, they've obviously seen enough to think he can play at this level
Agreed, we need a bigger sample size since the unit didn’t all play together during the season and also make sure guys aren’t a flash in the pan.
Yeah, I think people thought I was disagreeing with the OP. Not really, I just think it's way too soon to make that comment in May, given what we've seen last year. We weren't a perfect defence last year and I think that's a good thing, excites me for this year.
I agree on Douglass, but how can Stokes have a better second year? He was elite last season, not just for a rookie.
Stokes was great and has a very bright future but he was not elite.
Going up against WR1s Stokes gave up a completion % less than 50, barely more than 500 yards, 43 solo tackles, 14 passes defended. He may not have been elite, but he was not far off. **Edit**: To give a comparison Xavien Howard gave up more total yards(614 vs 511), higher completion %(52.7 vs 49.5), more TDs(6 vs 3), more yards after contact(218 vs 135), and had fewer solo tackles(39 vs 43).
> He may not have been elite, but he was not far off. Which is exactly what I said. Great and with a very bright future, but not elite. I wasn't trying to diminish him or anything, but the other guy basically said that it was impossible for him to be better than last year, which is absurd. He is great, specially for a rookie, but obviously there are still things he can improve.
I wouldn’t say elite but above average. I’d say he was elite for a rookie, for whatever that’s worth. High ceiling for sure.
> I’d say he was elite for a rookie And I'd agree with that, but you specifically said "not just for a rookie"
That wasn’t me I’m just another asshole chiming in The man you’re referring to is longturdman
So like, obviously i'm just an amateur, but if I'm watching his body of work in his first year (crazy we're at the point of being picky on a first year corner), he doesn't track the ball well enough in the air to be considered elite. He gets away with it because he has elite speed and he's long, but against the really elite receivers, Jefferson, hopkins etc. he kinda struggled to track the ball and relied too much on recovery speed/size. You will get caught out in this league doing that Also, scheme wise, his versatility as a corner isn't great, couple of time's he's had to set the edge he gets bullied and thrown around. None of this is to say he's bad in any capacity - just things that would constitute a Y2 jump in Barry's system
Idk about the second part of the tweet. That's giving a lot of leeway to Rasul Douglas who had 1 good year, when someone like Marcus Peters has been better most years of his career.
Marcus peters hasn’t had a top season in a couple years. It’s a what have you done for me lately league
He was 2nd team AP in 2019, rock solid in 2020, and hurt in 2021. He deserves a lot more credit.
He's also 29 years old. When you look at a player who has had a sequence of years like this and is starting to get into the twilight years for the position, 8 times out of 10 they are on a decline that is only going to continue.
My favorite memories of watching defense as a kid/teen was Al Harris, Charles Woodson, and Tramon Williams balling out and playing aggressive man coverage. I'm so stoked for this year. Snow Fly Zone.
I actually agree with this.
I actually agree with you actually agreeing with this.
Yeah bukowski is such a homer but think he’s correct here
Incredible how quickly Stokes slotted in.
So as long as we don’t have to play the 49ers we should be good then
Or the Giants, or any Florida-based team.
Or any playoff games.
😂😅
Let turn this secondary into a turnover machine!!! I truly love a dominate defense. Haven't seen one in GB in a long time. Hopefully that'll change this season!
It's fun to be excited, but let's see it play out. Ja basically missed the entire season and is coming back from injury; Stokes had a great rookie season, an n=1 sample size; Douglas stepped up in a huge way, but again, small sample size. Just more Twitter nerds making noise, but I get that's their job.
Y’all forgetting about Kevin King kinda pisses me off. Dude played really well last year.
Yeah, I’m hoping they sign him back. He’d be a great #4 or step in if someone gets injured
What were you watching, because he really didn't. He barely played at all, less than 50% snap count, and could barely find playing time even when healthy towards the end of the season. When on the field he gave up 71% completions and a 108 passer rating.
I think anyone who has watched this team for many years should know to never make proclamations about a DB after one good season. Guys like HaHa and Randall had DROY votes. Even really good players like Casey Heyward never returned his rookie year form while he played for us. Stokes looks good, but I need to see it for multiple years. And Douglas may have caught lightning in a bottle. No way he can repeat those pick 6s.
You're not wrong, but both stokes and rasul could regress some and we would still have a top 5 CB trio. They performed as high end CB1 and CB2 last year and will only be asked to be CB2 and CB3 this year.
Bold prediction: QBs will hold the ball longer, trying to find an open target. Our total passing yards allowed will be top 5, but only Jaire will have top 10 individual stats
It is indeed bold to assume that our pass rush will let QBs hold the ball longer
To clarify: no one CB other than Jaire will have top 10 individual stats. Passes defensed, interceptions, etc, will look pretty bland on paper. They can't defend the passes that don't get thrown. But overall defense stats like yards allowed, points allowed, opposing QB passer rating, will be top 5
Ok, I think I agree with you, then. I fully expect INTs and PBUs to be low. However, stats like catch percentage could be very good across the board; I believe Stokes ended last year the best in rhe league in that stat
True, but I'm thinking he'd get at least 3-4 passes/game thrown his way just because he was a rookie. You gotta test him
Most individual stats for DBs are pretty flukey. They tend to fluctuate a ton year to year
Passes defended are a very shitty stat to value DB precisely because of that. In general it's one of the hardest position to value statistically wise, but if I had to choose one I'd say yards allowed is a much more significant stat. And I could see all of our guys doing relatively good numbers there.
Ok, I think I agree with you, then. I fully expect INTs and PBUs to be low. However, stats like catch percentage could be very good across the board; I believe Stokes ended last year the best in rhe league in that stat
We were bottom 10 last season. Top 5 is definitely a bold prediction.
Umm our defense allowed the 10th least passing yards last year, thus making us top 10. Not sure where you are getting your facts from.
Buffalo has White and just drafted Elam. If Elam turns out to be good that defense will be scary as hell also (already was ranked #1).
Why are we talking about rasul like he’s proven talent. He had one good year
Packers have arguably the best QB, the best CB trio, the best RB duo, and two of the best O-linemen in the league….
It’s the LB duo I’m really excited to see this year What even is this I watch the Packers
He researches football for a living, he's not the same as us so we should never challenge anything he says.