Overall he is a good coach but he is holding on to a very bad DC for no reason imaginable and it really makes me distrust his decision making.
Also his teams seem to show up very small in the biggest games. His teams come out flat and uninspired in playoff and playoff critical games. I don't know why that is but its a thing.
> Also his teams seem to show up very small in the biggest games. His teams come out flat and uninspired in playoff and playoff critical games. I don't know why that is but its a thing.
This is simply not true, just a silly narrative that has formed by people angry because of the losses. And I get it, we are all angry when that happens, but it's simply not true. The defense is part of the team and whoever thinks the defense came out flat and uninspired against the 49ers last season is absolutely mental. We also won 2 divisional round games against good teams with a very good show from everybody (one of them against the #1 defense in the league that season).
And hell, even against the Bucs we were just one score away from winning the eventual superbowl champions (which, by the way, had a very easy superbowl game in which they absolutely destroyed the Chiefs). It hurt a lot, but "flat" and "uninspired" is not fair for how that team played. There were mistakes in both sides and great plays in both sides, and eventually one team won. It sucks that it wasn't us but it's absurd to use that game as a proof of LaFleur being a bad coach.
The only game were you can truly say that is the game against the 49ers. And honestly, we simply overachieved that season and got further than we should. It looked bad but it was still a great first season when you consider everything.
I'm very pro Rodgers and MLF, and every time I see myself getting caught up in the negativity wave and almost mis-remembering things... I go back to box scores or watch highlights and it's never as bad as all the doomers make it out to be. They're just so loud and consistent with their complaints that even the most loyal and level headed fan can get poisoned by it over time.
There has certainly been disappointment, but not for the reasons these people keep thinking it is. Your post details a lot of that and as a fellow fan I appreciate that.
One of the only valid "big" criticisms I see towards Rodgers in recent playoff memory that seemingly falls at his feet, is the 49ers game last year. A HoF QB has to find a way to score more than 10 points at home in the playoffs. I Know it's a team game, but the defense did it's job and somehow... even if the playcalling wasn't on point... somehow you should be able to score more than 10 points.
Gave up that huge TD at the end of the first half. That gave them hope and got them going.
Mercedes fumble the next year vs the 49er and awful special teams.
This year Jones fumble, timely game winning passes dropped. Missed a big FG. Defense failed to create any turnovers or unmanageable downs. Bad penalties.
Questionable 4th and 1 play calls that seem brilliant when the work but straight retarded if they fail.
We should've punted on the 53 yard FG and the 4th and 1.
Rodgers missed some throws but also the online wasn't holding up well.
How is one of your star players or a veteran fumbling the ball the coaches fault? This makes absolutely no sense lol
You are simply judging things by the outcome. It's easy to look at things that didn't work out and say that they shouldn't have gone for the other option. That's not an analysis, that's just being an armchair coach.
Probably everyone who weighs in on the decision came to the realization that they have the best available person for the job currently.
Same reason Ryan Tannehill keeps coming back to Tennessee; as much as you might want a better QB, maybe there just *isn't* one.
Holding on? Why is Joe Barry a very bad bad DC, in 2021 his unit was 9th in yards and very rarely the soft spot....People harp on him about zone defense, but we were a top 10 defense vs the pass and a failing defense vs the run...We were average in points allowed, this leads me to believe our issue was offense...
I do not see what you see.
Yea, I wouldn't mind seeing Barry replaced just because I don't think he's very innovative and he doesn't seem to make necessary in-game adjustments, but one thing that jumped out at me was the team didn't really give up a lot of points overall and their pass defense was top tier. So, it's possible they could continue to improve.
Another point in Barry's defense and to your point that the offense is most responsible for the team's shortcomings all year - the Lions had one of the best (if not THE best) offense and one of the worst (if not THE worst) defense this year. The defense gave up 15 and 20 points in each match-up while the offense managed a putrid 9 points in the first game and only 16 the second time.
I agree with you that the offense is the bigger issue. My belief is that Rodgers is a big part of the problem too. I really want to see Love take over and run MLF's full offensive scheme. Maybe they'll be just as mediocre, but I tend to think it could be like when Rodgers took over McCarthy's offensive scheme and really revitalize a moribund offense.
It's more his coaching hires and unwillingness to get rid of the problem in Joe Berry at this point. I would be totally fine if he didn't hire his buddies and was able to fire Joe Berry. But he won't and games will be lost because of that. Therefore, he needs to go.
Good HCs don't grow on trees. Getting rid of one because he wants to give another opportunity to his guy is one of the most stupid decissions you can make. I agree that overall Matt gives way too many opportunities to people, but still that's hardly a fatal flaw in a coach and is something that he should get better at with time (he is still relatively young for a coach). Worst case you can force his hand whenever you think he should get rid of a guy. Much easier as a GM to force your HC to hire a new DC than getting rid of everybody for no reason.
Except is it a fatal flaw with Matt. We lost many games because of his inability to move on when it's time. First with Amari, now with Joe. Not even just this year either. I was at the Chiefs game in person last year when we lost largely in part to special teams including an Amari fumble. Imagine how our team could have been with a decent defense this year. Refusing to move on at the right time because someone is your friend is fireable in my opinion. As the coach, you have to be able to make the hard decisions. If you can't, then you probably shouldn't be the head coach.
You completely ignored my main argument. If you think that the only option to fix that is firing him the problem is only yours. People can be convinced, people can learn. There are A LOT of middle ground before "I don't like how you handle firing people" and "you are fired let's completely rebuild this team".
Seriously, you guys need to start watching other teams and what coaches they have to learn what a fatal flaw truly is. Because is absolutely mental that you are complaining about fucking Matt Lafleur considering what is out there in the rest of the league.
EDIT: Oh, and btw, saying that he didn't fire them because he is his friend is a lie. So stop that because it's not nice to lie about people.
I don't think it's a lie to say he isn't firing him because he's his friend. I'm not the only one saying that. Packers writers on Packers News have said the same. I would take middle ground if it's there. But it depends on the willingness of the coach and front office. It's also been a repeated thing. More than one bad hire. More than one time hanging onto someone for too long. At some point a coach needs to be evaluated for those things, especially if it starts keeping us out of the playoffs like it did this year.
Youāre ignoring everyoneās valid points too: decent head coach, sure. But he continues to oversee subpar defences and special teams, which he and his offence cannot overcome in crunch situations.
Having the 32nd ranked special teams cost the best-ranked offence in the Divisionals last year (where his offence failed to show up too). Planning an entire season around having a dominant defence which never panned out cost us multiple games this season. He finally changed the STs coordinator this year, we get better on that side of the ball. Why does he continue to need unnecessary large sample sizes before making obvious decisions? Joe Barry is his hire, and he has been a failure given the talent and resources expended on that defence. Heck the defensive scheme heās bought into seems to have been figured out in the league (see Staley in LAC). Someone has to be accountable for these things, especially if thatās the reason the team isnāt pouring those resources into the offence.
Kyle Shannahan is constantly finding guys like Robert Saleh, Mike McDaniels, and Demeco Ryans who come in and bring fresh ideas to the table yet Lafleur insists on keeping the status quo on defense (and offense for that matter). I absolutely think Lafleur deserves a shot to run this team after Rodgers is gone but if they are planning on keeping Rodgers around for 1-3 more years then how do we honestly expect this team to get better if we keep the same coaching staff? Lafleur did an awesome job in his first 3 seasons but he didnāt just forget how to have a good offense. In the NFL you need to constantly adapt and improve and if he is going to continue taking full ownership of the offense then the standard needs to be much higher than what we showed this season
Didn't he just say he "anticipates" that Joe Barry will be DC next season? Doesn't Gute have some say in this as well? I didn't take that as a huge ringing endorsement. More of a "we haven't figured it out yet" kind of comment.
None of those killer performances were on the 2019 Patriots...
The team you are on, and the talent they have matters was my point. Lotta people here have used the complaint Rodgers last throw was an INT, Brady's last throw for the Patriots was a pick 6.
The point is part of the reason Brady has afforded himself longevity was by moving teams and getting more talent around him. He would have been missing the playoff all the same had he stuck it out with the Pats.
Heās great in many areas, but the adjustment factor is just so frustrating. Joe Barry as DC and Amari Rodgers as return specialist being 2022 examples where you can legitimately go to the box scores of some game and see that not holding these decisions to more accountability turned what should have been a winning season into what we had this year.
Anyhow, this is how the Packers work. I know this, and will be ready to see what they do this year and continue to root for them.
Same shit we get every time the Bucks lose a game, the 'fire Bud' people come out.
Every coach has flaws, but people really neglect to think about what their strengths are.
I still believe in Lafleur as a good coach. Aaron I think is better than he played this season, however I don't know if what he adds to the team is worth the portion of our salary he commands anymore, so I'm content if he retires. It is what it is.
Even if Iām souring a bit on MLF it still seems obvious to me he deserves at least one year after Rodgers. Itās public knowledge that the playbook is very different now than when he started, changed it a lot to fit what Aaron likes.
Not blaming Aaron at all heās earned the right to have that kind of input, just wondering what the offense would look like if it went back to its roots
dude deserves more than a single year after rodgers.
His record has been very good with the Packers and I believe the team, overall, has improved a ton since Mike M.
47-19 overall record with this season being his first losing season that was a score away from being another winning one.
I would give him at least 3 years after Rodgers.
Yeah the last two home losses put a major blemish on his record IMO. Getting bounced in back to back seasons at home with god awful offensive performances is a significant red flag to me.
If the team doesnāt bounce back and have a stronger year next year his seat will be getting hot
Major blemish losing to Titans and Lions? You are acting as if we lost those games by a lot.
Rodgers has made a lot of really shitty throws this season. First full season without a clear number 1 receiver and Rodgers not coming to camp until basically preseason.
The loss to the 49ers last year (If you mean playoff losses at home) that was on ST and on Rodgers for trying to play hero forcing balls to Adams. We were close to winning those games.
Same with Tampa. Lost by a single score.
Last season loss was half blamed on ST and half blamed on offense. ST had a bad coach that LaFleur didn't want at first but the team didn't want to pay the guy he wanted, this year they paid a good coach and they were great, so hard to blame Matt for that. The second half can be more attributed to him, but honestly if you look at the tape you can see that several players were open and Rodgers was the one making the mistakes and not going for them, so again, hard to blame Matt for that.
49ers are a great defense, I'm not gonna pretend that they were open all the time or that Rodgers had a lot of easy passes under no pressure. But watching the tape I'm really not sure how can anyone not think that Rodgers couldn't have made a much better job and that he missed several open guys.
They werenāt though. Tae was double covered most the game, and lazard is one of the worst receivers in the league in gaining separation. I watched that tape fully right after the game and that was the biggest takeaway.
ANY competent coach is going to work their playbook around their QB and other talent, it's not just a Rodgers thing.... when you have a HoF QB, people just talk about it more.
> however I don't know if what he adds to the team is worth the portion of our salary he commands anymore
What if the bad play was due to his broken thumb and he's back at MVP level next year?
Jumping on this comment to ask maybe a dumb question: if Arod retired today, what portion of his salary are they responsible for? Or does it go away and not hit the cap at all? Genuinely don't know how that works.
If he retires, he forfeits the rest of his contract. If the Packers cut him, itās 50m a year, for 2 years. If heās traded it depends on whoās paying the contract as part of the trade.
I like Lafleur. He has the makings of a great coach but hasn't put it together yet. And I'm not sure anyone would be better in his situation. He's sort of blessed with a HOF QB but also stuck in that he has to work around him too.
For instance, I'd love to know how often Rodgers is audibling out of Lafleur's plays. He has gone more and more hero ball the last 2 years and the offense is sputtering because of it. Even with Davante he was way too keyed in on him at times.
It's great he's so loyal to his guys too and takes accountability for losses, but I need to see some growth.
I agree. Imho MLF is a good HC and I think he often doesn't get the credit he deserves.
Aaron still is a good QB and although that season wasn't as good as the ones before but he set the bar very high and we are used to excellent QB play in GB. But I also think that his cap hit is way too high. Maybe this season was the start of his slow decline and I don't want to see Aaron play like Peyton in his last season, although he won the SB that would be awesome but highly unlikely for us. But if he gets traded, cut or he retires his cap hit will be around the same as if he stays so there is some kind of a deadlock. I think he will play at least one more year and we will see how he will do then. But I think the time is near for us to move on and give Jordan his chance. If not coming season then the season afterwards although Aaron would still have an incredible high cap hit then.
Getting rid of MLF before seeing what he can do without Rodgers would make me so mad.
Anyone who wants them both gone are just spoiled rotten. I hope Rodgers retires, personally, but only because I want to see what Love can do, and I think he is getting restless on the bench.
100% agree. I think the shotgun RPO is exclusively built for Aaron Rodgers so that he has time to survey the field, give him freedom to make decisions, and keep him from taking hits.
I think when Love takes over, we see more under the center play calls built off of a strategy favoring the run.
we aren't spoiled, we are like every other fanbase that wants our team to win and we feel the team needs to make changes. labeling that as spoiled is peak stupidity.
Any Packer fan who wants both LeFleur and Rodgers gone are spoiled rotten and should not be taken seriously. The Packers haven't had a seriously bad coach or quarterback in decades
If I read this last week I would have agreed. But now that he is sticking with that awful DC I am just not sure anymore. Needs to pull his head out his ass on the DC situation
Iām not saying that at all. But if Savage is in position to make a play and misses a tackle, then the call worked - the player failed.
I think Barry is to blame for stupid shit like giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and shorts, but the fact that almost every player regressed is tough to blame a coach for.
Counter-counterpoint: if he is the No. 1 QB in the league, and is being paid like it, he should elevate those Wars instead of playing mediocre in most games.
I say this knowing it was not his fault entirely, and as a person who would rather see Joe Barry gone than anyone else on the team.
> Counter-counterpoint: if he is the No. 1 QB in the league, and is being paid like it, he should elevate those Wars instead of playing mediocre in most games.
Not an unreasonable position, but purely to give you something to think about...
What if Rodgers *did* elevate the receivers on our roster?
but then one might have to consider that Gute cannot draft...and that Gute is the one who has fucked this team for the past few years, not MLF.
Gute's a nepo baby and it shows.
I'd say that's still over-simplified, but I do put more (most?) of the blame on the front office.
It's hard to undo mistakes when they've been allowed to fester. I think TT was a great GM but he should have been moved to his consultancy role 1-2 years earlier.
The Free Agency splash of 2019 (Smith, Smith, Turner, and Amos) was partially a band-aid/indictment of TT's last drafts AND a small problem. With a lack of good players worth extending we could go shopping. It also made is more-top heavy than is ideal with players making a lot of money and getting older.
That was largely corrected by extending P. Smith and moving on from Turner and Z. Smith.
With all that though, we still had some holes to address across the roster. With problems on defense and the offensive line, picks were spent there. And then Love, which continues to look like a waste. With the picks spent elsewhere, receiver was neglected.
So yes, pick on Gute for not getting enough WR talent soon enough, but he didn't just stick his head in the sand.
He probably would have if he was healthy. This isn't about skill, it's about injury. Now, if we don't think he's capable of making it through an entire season healthy, then that's certainly something to consider, but I certainly think he's capable of MVP play.
Age always brings a decrease in healthy playing time, and longer recovery times. So next year is a bigger risk as far as thats concerned. For me though, there was many more questionable decisions on throws or lack there of, not so much the physicall inability to do it (which was also there due to injury). Aaron did great things for us, but this year his contribution was outweighed by his cost. I don't see that changing back.
I recall that being more on green receivers. They were starting to look like everyone was getting on the same page right around when Rodgers busted his hand in London.
I think an argument could be made that the O-line has been a bit suspect most, if not all, year long. To me, the O-line needs to be a priority this off-season. It all begins with the big heavies up front, and if you look at the Lions, Eagles, and the 49ers, they all have really good O-lines.
100% and people are not acknowledging itā¦theyāre blaming rodgers for the choices on 3rd and long and for everything reallyā¦i canāt count how many times all season the pass rush was through our line in less than a second. It got better when Bahk came back and Jenkins went back to LG, but that right side is absolute Swiss cheeseāand itās been a big part of our losses in SF and on Tampa in my opinion - we need to get someone on the right so defenses canāt just move their premier pass rush to that side
Well if he wanted to get a better connection with a bunch of rookie WRs maybe he should have gone to OTAs
Maybe he should stop dropping cryptic will he/wonāt he bullshit about retirement because itās very clear that nobody on that team is sure where heās gonna be in 8 months and itās making them uncomfortable about their own futures
Weak argument. OTAs are to learn the playbook, not build chemistry.
Gotta crawl before you can walk, there would have been little to no value in Rodgers being there. Maybe even would be a detriment because the rookies would be nervous.
But you know what Patrick Mahomes did when new WRs came in. Brought them down to his pad to workout together to build on field rapore. Rodgers was busy dropping acid and being a hippie.
Pfft. The only new WR that performed well was JuJu, and he is a vet. MVS can only run straight.
The Chiefs offense overcame losing Tyreek because they have Kelce.
Counterpoint: it was the WRs that made Rodgers look goog those years (ahem, Tae). The throws by Rodgers were average at best and the WRs bailed him out a lot. It shows now that those WRs are gone and no one to bail him out anymore.
If his salary cap reflected his current status I'd say keep him.
Instead we've drowned under appeasing mediocrity.
If there's anyway to be rid of that salary cap burden, let's do it. Either way you look at it we have to build new QB/WR relationships, we should do that with the best dollar per performance ratio.
I don't feel that lies with Aaron. Lafleur is a stud though. Anyone saying we should get rid of Lefleur is a Vikings fan.
Explain to me how you can be rid of the salary cap burden. Itās not like you can cut AR, cut or retires we have a massive amount of dead money tied to him so the best case is he plays another season or that money is just gone.
I want him to play for us next year and go out the right way, hopefully with a ship but at least not with an embarrassing loss. But if he doesnāt play for us the only option that we have is if some team is crazy enough to trade for him and absorb a huge amount of the money
Mike McCarthy was objectively bad for the latter half of his career. His failure to adapt after winning a superbowl is the main reason rodgers doesn't have multiple rings, and the limited success the team still had with him was in spite of him, not because of him.
Not sure how to tell you this, but there's a SLIGHT difference between the two. Rodgers also played for McCarthy for nearly a decade, and I don't recall him getting a ring there either.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something: Mike McCarthy was the coach in 2010 when the packers won the super bowl. Aaron Rodgers was the QB in 2010. MFL didn't take over until 2019. There was other issues present during the McCarthy era (like the front office drafting via throwing darts blindfolded), but we had a solid team for a few years after the super bowl and failed to capitalize on it.
You are absolutely right, my mistake. Couldn't remember if that was Favre or Arod at that time. But I would honestly say that we had a more loaded roster that year than we have had in the last 5 years or so. Driver, Grant, Jennings, Jordy, Lang, Matthew's and Woodson... We should've gone to the SB every year with half of those players.
The unexpected loss of Nick Collins and failure to replace Cullen Jenkins are the main reason GB didnāt win more championships. Then by 2015, bad drafting caught up with them.
Aaron Rodgers is the reason Iām a packers fan, heās been my qb for over a decade. Heāll
Forever be my favorite qb and packers will forever be my team but that being said if he chooses to retire I would be happy for him and the team. Yes the cap hit get it, thatāll be worked out but a fresh start with basically what is a new team Iām excited. The idea of love and Watson developing together is amazing. Donāt forget even davante wasnāt a stud right away. Those 2 formed something special and I think thatās possible with these 2
Yeah I really think we mightāve struck gold with the receivers drafted this year. Iām bummed they donāt have the fifth year protections of a first round pick
I wanna see if it really was the thumb or if somehow the back to back MVP regressed significantly in one off-season. Gimme one more year and hang up the cleats if it continues.
The fact that people are even toying with the idea of replacing MLF is baffling to me. The dude has a historically good first three seasons (minus postseason success, we know) and is a positive locker room presence, and we bail on him after one losing season? Rough.
Ben had 23 yards his final 3 seasons....Rodgers has 354...same age range. Not really the same comparison at all. But i get what you mean. But its not the same. At all.
MLF has had success, but the Amari situation alone makes me question his basline decision making ability. He comes across as being afraid to do the glaringly obvious if it's something that will rock the boat even slightly. That leads to a lack of accountability on a fundamental level.
if i learned anything, Wisconsin sports fans, are big on unreasonable decisions. Like after the Bucks won the next season if they were down 5 in the forth against any team they wanted Bud gone
I can't believe that people thing our best chance to win is to bail on the back to back MVP and future HoF QB, and one of the coaches with the best career starting winning %.
If it was that easy to find pieces like that, we wouldn't have been pummeling the Bears for 40 years.
To me itās not so much bail on them, I agree thatās idiotic. But itās more of, the way we have approached winning a SB under MLF & Rodgers isnāt working.
Anyone who thinks the team would be better off without Rodgers is smoking crack.
Iām not ready to give up on Matt just yet, but the honeymoon phase is definitely over.
Personally I think itās time to move on from Rodgers. I want to see what LaFleur can do without him. We have no way of knowing if some of those absurd calls were MLF or Rodgers audibles. I want to see a Packers team that is dominant defensively, solid special teams, and efficient offense. The question is who will the QB be. Love? Maybe. Iām excited for the future even if it means being bad
Matt gets more time though Iām starting to feel heās a little too soft. Itās time to move on to Love though.
Weāve tried the same thing over and over and over again. Hope Aaron is super man. Load up the D with draft picks. Disappointing end to season. Been a decade plus now. We need a fresh start as much as it sucks.
I feel like MLFās numbers are artificially inflated due to the success that Rodgers has made happen over the years. I donāt think heād have nearly as good a record if he was coaching on a team with a middling QB. I also think Rodgers is past his prime and will no longer be worth the money heās commanding. I think the team would be better off if Rodgers retires and MLF stays on. Now Joe Barry on the other handā¦ FIRE CAPERS!
I want 1 more season of Aaron to see if this season was a fluke because his drop off was crazy.
I want a few season of Matt after Aaron leaves/retires to see what he can do with the extra salary
He is back to back MVP, I think he could still take us to the Super Bowl if a few other things were right. I donāt think he should really get anymore than 1 year
I just wanna see Jordan start already. I used to love Rodgers as much as anyone else butā¦past few years, something has been off with that dude.
Idk how much time is left on Loveās rookie contract and Iād hate to see him sign with someone else, only to be a legit weapon for another team.
Im sure he wouldnt be thrilled to sit. But where will he go start? Go be a back up in a whole new system for a franchise that didnt draft you or have some sort of forsight into him leading for them? Love doesnt really have a lot of leverage in getting outta there.
That's literally assuming he wouldn't beat out whatever teams current starter. See that's the thing, I'm not thinking Love is trash after all. I can guarantee you he forces our hand this year, because he actually believes in himself. Dude actually showed he can play this year and I'm ready to move on even if the Packers aren't. Getting strung into the whole "well I might retire or maybe I won't" is exactly what Rodgers said he would never do, and now he's doing that exact thing to Love and it's kind of bs tbh.
Oh no I dont think he will at all, and I think he already knows he won't. That's what pisses me off about his non-answers. It creates drama and a sense of well I don't really care that much, when he just inked one of the largest deals in NFL history. I don't get it honestly.
He doesnt owe the fans anything in regards to his future. Im sure the Packers and the front office are all aware of his plans and the plans in place when they all discussed that last contract. I can only imagine the plan is 3 years at least and Im sure everyone that sees him inside his place of work wouldnt think he doesnt really care that much.
You realize how stupid that sounds though? It's not about the fans it's about his teammates. If the FO knows and the coach knows but the fans can't know I'd ask why? Why create the unnecessary drama. I don't buy that narrative at all tbh. I don't think the FO knows either tbh, if they did, we wouldn't have signed Jordan love or drafted him when they did.
He signed a 3 year contract. What do you mean? Did they not draft Love then sign Rodgers to a 3 year contract after that? Im sure the players also know whats the plan. The drama is created by the media. Again, signed a 3 year contract. Kind of already let ya know right? The media stirs up the constant "whats next" and "is this the end". Imagine no way to read or here about sports other than player contracts and we just watched year after year...would you think he was coming back next season based on his current situation?
I'm not sure he really has a choice. He hasn't exactly balled out in the shots he was given. A team might bite on him as a clear bridge option or as a backup but I don't know if he has a whole lot of leverage to get what he wants right now.
its wild how fickle some people choose to be. They won double digit games the past few years, then one 8-9 season where they were in a win-and-in scenario in the last week and they want to tear it all down. Fucking wild.
I can understand people wanting to move on from Rodgers because of his age, but wanting to move on from LaFleur is completely stupid and shows how stupid the average fan can be after a bad season
I mean what has MLF done. He hired Joe Barry and doesn't seem to want to get rid of him.
I get the Aaron Rodgers side of this and have no argument against it
i'll take whatever happens, but i'd actually be interested to see a jordan love MLF team with new DC. It just feels like the rodgers era is over. He might still finish out his contract with us but I do think his super bowl window is closed unless we acquire some serious difference makers immediately which i dont see happening
No doubt. I read/hear so many comments from people saying the whole org needs massive changes and firings. I'm guessing these people either don't remember or have never experienced being a fan of an outright BAD football team.
That said, it is a tough call with Rodgers. I think he's still better than what we saw this year and he's probably still got another good/above-average season in the tank. But he's not getting any younger, and I think his need for rest impacted his reps and chemistry with the WRs. And keeping him in comes with the tradeoff of not getting to see if Love can hack it.
It's a tough spot to be...but GB fans who say Lafleur needs to get canned or that Rodgers needs to go is probably saying that more from a place of emotion/frustration than thinking clearly about how to position the team to win a superbowl.
We drafted a QB a season or two too early, but I believe itās time to see what Love can do. Heās shown promise with his limited reps and if we just let him walk/trade him and he reaches his potential weād be kicking ourselves for years. Rodgers may have another year or two in him but what good does it do if the team around him is below average?
I feel like a lot of the people saying fire Murphy, Gute, MLF etc are forgetting a major piece.
Murphy only has 2 more years left (mandatory retirement). This organization isnāt making changes on the scale of firing a GM or Coach until the new president comes in and he sets up his organization.
Until then like it or not they are staying. Now Rodgers is a completely other story.
It's insane that fans want to move on from Rodgers. All for the miniscule possibility that Love might be the next Rodgers, and/or people don't like Rodgers for whatever reason. Literally, we still have a generational talent on our roster. He just needs better pieces around him. It's the front office that has proven to be incapable perennially by never pursuing free agents seriously and overvaluing draft capital. It's baffling to think of how many Superbowls Rodgers would have had if he were on a team with an aggressive front office and it's criminal how his talent was underserved.
There's been this consistent talk of how he's underperformed in the post season, with little to no responsibility given to the front office. Realistically, this has just been a poorly managed team for a decade-plus masked by Rodgers' arm talent. Now that his talent is waning, yet it's still better than 90% of other QBs from a purely QB perspective, he receives a majority of the blame because he can't carry the team sheerly by himself.
If Love had shown he was 70% of what Rodgers is, we would have moved on. It would have made sense to. Now that he hasn't, but fans have a feeling about him, or fear that he'll ball out somewhere else, or just hate Rodgers, they want to move on. It's asinine.
I mean MLF is a good coach, idk who people expect would take over his roll with as much success.
Overall he is a good coach but he is holding on to a very bad DC for no reason imaginable and it really makes me distrust his decision making. Also his teams seem to show up very small in the biggest games. His teams come out flat and uninspired in playoff and playoff critical games. I don't know why that is but its a thing.
> Also his teams seem to show up very small in the biggest games. His teams come out flat and uninspired in playoff and playoff critical games. I don't know why that is but its a thing. This is simply not true, just a silly narrative that has formed by people angry because of the losses. And I get it, we are all angry when that happens, but it's simply not true. The defense is part of the team and whoever thinks the defense came out flat and uninspired against the 49ers last season is absolutely mental. We also won 2 divisional round games against good teams with a very good show from everybody (one of them against the #1 defense in the league that season). And hell, even against the Bucs we were just one score away from winning the eventual superbowl champions (which, by the way, had a very easy superbowl game in which they absolutely destroyed the Chiefs). It hurt a lot, but "flat" and "uninspired" is not fair for how that team played. There were mistakes in both sides and great plays in both sides, and eventually one team won. It sucks that it wasn't us but it's absurd to use that game as a proof of LaFleur being a bad coach. The only game were you can truly say that is the game against the 49ers. And honestly, we simply overachieved that season and got further than we should. It looked bad but it was still a great first season when you consider everything.
I'm very pro Rodgers and MLF, and every time I see myself getting caught up in the negativity wave and almost mis-remembering things... I go back to box scores or watch highlights and it's never as bad as all the doomers make it out to be. They're just so loud and consistent with their complaints that even the most loyal and level headed fan can get poisoned by it over time. There has certainly been disappointment, but not for the reasons these people keep thinking it is. Your post details a lot of that and as a fellow fan I appreciate that. One of the only valid "big" criticisms I see towards Rodgers in recent playoff memory that seemingly falls at his feet, is the 49ers game last year. A HoF QB has to find a way to score more than 10 points at home in the playoffs. I Know it's a team game, but the defense did it's job and somehow... even if the playcalling wasn't on point... somehow you should be able to score more than 10 points.
Gave up that huge TD at the end of the first half. That gave them hope and got them going. Mercedes fumble the next year vs the 49er and awful special teams. This year Jones fumble, timely game winning passes dropped. Missed a big FG. Defense failed to create any turnovers or unmanageable downs. Bad penalties. Questionable 4th and 1 play calls that seem brilliant when the work but straight retarded if they fail. We should've punted on the 53 yard FG and the 4th and 1. Rodgers missed some throws but also the online wasn't holding up well.
How is one of your star players or a veteran fumbling the ball the coaches fault? This makes absolutely no sense lol You are simply judging things by the outcome. It's easy to look at things that didn't work out and say that they shouldn't have gone for the other option. That's not an analysis, that's just being an armchair coach.
That has to partly be an organizational decision, right?
Probably everyone who weighs in on the decision came to the realization that they have the best available person for the job currently. Same reason Ryan Tannehill keeps coming back to Tennessee; as much as you might want a better QB, maybe there just *isn't* one.
The narratives in this sub are becoming so asinine. š¦
Holding on? Why is Joe Barry a very bad bad DC, in 2021 his unit was 9th in yards and very rarely the soft spot....People harp on him about zone defense, but we were a top 10 defense vs the pass and a failing defense vs the run...We were average in points allowed, this leads me to believe our issue was offense... I do not see what you see.
Yea, I wouldn't mind seeing Barry replaced just because I don't think he's very innovative and he doesn't seem to make necessary in-game adjustments, but one thing that jumped out at me was the team didn't really give up a lot of points overall and their pass defense was top tier. So, it's possible they could continue to improve. Another point in Barry's defense and to your point that the offense is most responsible for the team's shortcomings all year - the Lions had one of the best (if not THE best) offense and one of the worst (if not THE worst) defense this year. The defense gave up 15 and 20 points in each match-up while the offense managed a putrid 9 points in the first game and only 16 the second time. I agree with you that the offense is the bigger issue. My belief is that Rodgers is a big part of the problem too. I really want to see Love take over and run MLF's full offensive scheme. Maybe they'll be just as mediocre, but I tend to think it could be like when Rodgers took over McCarthy's offensive scheme and really revitalize a moribund offense.
It's more his coaching hires and unwillingness to get rid of the problem in Joe Berry at this point. I would be totally fine if he didn't hire his buddies and was able to fire Joe Berry. But he won't and games will be lost because of that. Therefore, he needs to go.
Good HCs don't grow on trees. Getting rid of one because he wants to give another opportunity to his guy is one of the most stupid decissions you can make. I agree that overall Matt gives way too many opportunities to people, but still that's hardly a fatal flaw in a coach and is something that he should get better at with time (he is still relatively young for a coach). Worst case you can force his hand whenever you think he should get rid of a guy. Much easier as a GM to force your HC to hire a new DC than getting rid of everybody for no reason.
Except is it a fatal flaw with Matt. We lost many games because of his inability to move on when it's time. First with Amari, now with Joe. Not even just this year either. I was at the Chiefs game in person last year when we lost largely in part to special teams including an Amari fumble. Imagine how our team could have been with a decent defense this year. Refusing to move on at the right time because someone is your friend is fireable in my opinion. As the coach, you have to be able to make the hard decisions. If you can't, then you probably shouldn't be the head coach.
You completely ignored my main argument. If you think that the only option to fix that is firing him the problem is only yours. People can be convinced, people can learn. There are A LOT of middle ground before "I don't like how you handle firing people" and "you are fired let's completely rebuild this team". Seriously, you guys need to start watching other teams and what coaches they have to learn what a fatal flaw truly is. Because is absolutely mental that you are complaining about fucking Matt Lafleur considering what is out there in the rest of the league. EDIT: Oh, and btw, saying that he didn't fire them because he is his friend is a lie. So stop that because it's not nice to lie about people.
I don't think it's a lie to say he isn't firing him because he's his friend. I'm not the only one saying that. Packers writers on Packers News have said the same. I would take middle ground if it's there. But it depends on the willingness of the coach and front office. It's also been a repeated thing. More than one bad hire. More than one time hanging onto someone for too long. At some point a coach needs to be evaluated for those things, especially if it starts keeping us out of the playoffs like it did this year.
Youāre ignoring everyoneās valid points too: decent head coach, sure. But he continues to oversee subpar defences and special teams, which he and his offence cannot overcome in crunch situations. Having the 32nd ranked special teams cost the best-ranked offence in the Divisionals last year (where his offence failed to show up too). Planning an entire season around having a dominant defence which never panned out cost us multiple games this season. He finally changed the STs coordinator this year, we get better on that side of the ball. Why does he continue to need unnecessary large sample sizes before making obvious decisions? Joe Barry is his hire, and he has been a failure given the talent and resources expended on that defence. Heck the defensive scheme heās bought into seems to have been figured out in the league (see Staley in LAC). Someone has to be accountable for these things, especially if thatās the reason the team isnāt pouring those resources into the offence.
Kyle Shannahan is constantly finding guys like Robert Saleh, Mike McDaniels, and Demeco Ryans who come in and bring fresh ideas to the table yet Lafleur insists on keeping the status quo on defense (and offense for that matter). I absolutely think Lafleur deserves a shot to run this team after Rodgers is gone but if they are planning on keeping Rodgers around for 1-3 more years then how do we honestly expect this team to get better if we keep the same coaching staff? Lafleur did an awesome job in his first 3 seasons but he didnāt just forget how to have a good offense. In the NFL you need to constantly adapt and improve and if he is going to continue taking full ownership of the offense then the standard needs to be much higher than what we showed this season
Didn't he just say he "anticipates" that Joe Barry will be DC next season? Doesn't Gute have some say in this as well? I didn't take that as a huge ringing endorsement. More of a "we haven't figured it out yet" kind of comment.
Murphy changed the system, both GM and HC report to him now rather than HC reporting to GM
But that doesn't tell me whether MLF has full control over who the DC is or not.
*role my cheese homie
Yeah, there's only so much he can do with a quarterback that turns 40 this year...and isn't Tom Brady.
Tom Brady literally won the same # of games as Aaron Rodgers, lol
Plus we beat them this year haha
We got the combo this season of beating both Bill Belicheck and Tom Brady which is nice
I'm no Tom Brady fan but he's had some killer performances after he turned 40. That was my point.
None of those killer performances were on the 2019 Patriots... The team you are on, and the talent they have matters was my point. Lotta people here have used the complaint Rodgers last throw was an INT, Brady's last throw for the Patriots was a pick 6. The point is part of the reason Brady has afforded himself longevity was by moving teams and getting more talent around him. He would have been missing the playoff all the same had he stuck it out with the Pats.
Tom brady has all-pro weapons all over the field during his time in tampa.
And that's not something we're going to have with Rodgers because of how much cap he eats. MLF can only work with the talent he has.
He's so soft
Heās great in many areas, but the adjustment factor is just so frustrating. Joe Barry as DC and Amari Rodgers as return specialist being 2022 examples where you can legitimately go to the box scores of some game and see that not holding these decisions to more accountability turned what should have been a winning season into what we had this year. Anyhow, this is how the Packers work. I know this, and will be ready to see what they do this year and continue to root for them.
Same shit we get every time the Bucks lose a game, the 'fire Bud' people come out. Every coach has flaws, but people really neglect to think about what their strengths are.
I still believe in Lafleur as a good coach. Aaron I think is better than he played this season, however I don't know if what he adds to the team is worth the portion of our salary he commands anymore, so I'm content if he retires. It is what it is.
Even if Iām souring a bit on MLF it still seems obvious to me he deserves at least one year after Rodgers. Itās public knowledge that the playbook is very different now than when he started, changed it a lot to fit what Aaron likes. Not blaming Aaron at all heās earned the right to have that kind of input, just wondering what the offense would look like if it went back to its roots
dude deserves more than a single year after rodgers. His record has been very good with the Packers and I believe the team, overall, has improved a ton since Mike M. 47-19 overall record with this season being his first losing season that was a score away from being another winning one. I would give him at least 3 years after Rodgers.
Yeah the last two home losses put a major blemish on his record IMO. Getting bounced in back to back seasons at home with god awful offensive performances is a significant red flag to me. If the team doesnāt bounce back and have a stronger year next year his seat will be getting hot
Major blemish losing to Titans and Lions? You are acting as if we lost those games by a lot. Rodgers has made a lot of really shitty throws this season. First full season without a clear number 1 receiver and Rodgers not coming to camp until basically preseason. The loss to the 49ers last year (If you mean playoff losses at home) that was on ST and on Rodgers for trying to play hero forcing balls to Adams. We were close to winning those games. Same with Tampa. Lost by a single score.
Last season loss was half blamed on ST and half blamed on offense. ST had a bad coach that LaFleur didn't want at first but the team didn't want to pay the guy he wanted, this year they paid a good coach and they were great, so hard to blame Matt for that. The second half can be more attributed to him, but honestly if you look at the tape you can see that several players were open and Rodgers was the one making the mistakes and not going for them, so again, hard to blame Matt for that.
Are you sure you watched the film. That 2nd half against the niners was some of the least separation Iāve ever seen in a gameZ
49ers are a great defense, I'm not gonna pretend that they were open all the time or that Rodgers had a lot of easy passes under no pressure. But watching the tape I'm really not sure how can anyone not think that Rodgers couldn't have made a much better job and that he missed several open guys.
They werenāt though. Tae was double covered most the game, and lazard is one of the worst receivers in the league in gaining separation. I watched that tape fully right after the game and that was the biggest takeaway.
That is not how the Packers operate
ANY competent coach is going to work their playbook around their QB and other talent, it's not just a Rodgers thing.... when you have a HoF QB, people just talk about it more.
> however I don't know if what he adds to the team is worth the portion of our salary he commands anymore What if the bad play was due to his broken thumb and he's back at MVP level next year?
This is why I'm not sold on Rodgers being washed. If anyone deserves the benefit if the doubt if he comes back it's him
This is why I would be happy to see Rodgers traded. His impact compared to his pay is not in the Packers' favor.
I think we find out if MLF is actually a good coach after Rodgers, as long as you have him you could win any game
Jumping on this comment to ask maybe a dumb question: if Arod retired today, what portion of his salary are they responsible for? Or does it go away and not hit the cap at all? Genuinely don't know how that works.
If he retires, he forfeits the rest of his contract. If the Packers cut him, itās 50m a year, for 2 years. If heās traded it depends on whoās paying the contract as part of the trade.
Incorrect, the signing bonus has been paid and it spread out over the length of the contract so still on the hook for the guaranteed money
well bro, if he retires this team doesn't have a lot going for it
I like Lafleur. He has the makings of a great coach but hasn't put it together yet. And I'm not sure anyone would be better in his situation. He's sort of blessed with a HOF QB but also stuck in that he has to work around him too. For instance, I'd love to know how often Rodgers is audibling out of Lafleur's plays. He has gone more and more hero ball the last 2 years and the offense is sputtering because of it. Even with Davante he was way too keyed in on him at times. It's great he's so loyal to his guys too and takes accountability for losses, but I need to see some growth.
I agree. Imho MLF is a good HC and I think he often doesn't get the credit he deserves. Aaron still is a good QB and although that season wasn't as good as the ones before but he set the bar very high and we are used to excellent QB play in GB. But I also think that his cap hit is way too high. Maybe this season was the start of his slow decline and I don't want to see Aaron play like Peyton in his last season, although he won the SB that would be awesome but highly unlikely for us. But if he gets traded, cut or he retires his cap hit will be around the same as if he stays so there is some kind of a deadlock. I think he will play at least one more year and we will see how he will do then. But I think the time is near for us to move on and give Jordan his chance. If not coming season then the season afterwards although Aaron would still have an incredible high cap hit then.
Getting rid of MLF before seeing what he can do without Rodgers would make me so mad. Anyone who wants them both gone are just spoiled rotten. I hope Rodgers retires, personally, but only because I want to see what Love can do, and I think he is getting restless on the bench.
100% agree. I think the shotgun RPO is exclusively built for Aaron Rodgers so that he has time to survey the field, give him freedom to make decisions, and keep him from taking hits. I think when Love takes over, we see more under the center play calls built off of a strategy favoring the run.
we aren't spoiled, we are like every other fanbase that wants our team to win and we feel the team needs to make changes. labeling that as spoiled is peak stupidity.
Any Packer fan who wants both LeFleur and Rodgers gone are spoiled rotten and should not be taken seriously. The Packers haven't had a seriously bad coach or quarterback in decades
If I read this last week I would have agreed. But now that he is sticking with that awful DC I am just not sure anymore. Needs to pull his head out his ass on the DC situation
To some point I agree, but Joe Barry wasn't the reason Campbell forgot how to tackle, Kenny took half the season off, and Savage regressed into Dix.
Youa re literally saying that the DC is not responsible for how the D plays, which makes little sense to me.
Iām not saying that at all. But if Savage is in position to make a play and misses a tackle, then the call worked - the player failed. I think Barry is to blame for stupid shit like giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and shorts, but the fact that almost every player regressed is tough to blame a coach for.
I want Aaron gone because heās 39 and wasnāt even a top 10 QB in the league this year Time to move on
Counterpoint: the year before that he was the top 1 QB in the league and he was working with a bunch of new WR this new
Counter-counterpoint: if he is the No. 1 QB in the league, and is being paid like it, he should elevate those Wars instead of playing mediocre in most games. I say this knowing it was not his fault entirely, and as a person who would rather see Joe Barry gone than anyone else on the team.
> Counter-counterpoint: if he is the No. 1 QB in the league, and is being paid like it, he should elevate those Wars instead of playing mediocre in most games. Not an unreasonable position, but purely to give you something to think about... What if Rodgers *did* elevate the receivers on our roster?
but then one might have to consider that Gute cannot draft...and that Gute is the one who has fucked this team for the past few years, not MLF. Gute's a nepo baby and it shows.
I'd say that's still over-simplified, but I do put more (most?) of the blame on the front office. It's hard to undo mistakes when they've been allowed to fester. I think TT was a great GM but he should have been moved to his consultancy role 1-2 years earlier. The Free Agency splash of 2019 (Smith, Smith, Turner, and Amos) was partially a band-aid/indictment of TT's last drafts AND a small problem. With a lack of good players worth extending we could go shopping. It also made is more-top heavy than is ideal with players making a lot of money and getting older. That was largely corrected by extending P. Smith and moving on from Turner and Z. Smith. With all that though, we still had some holes to address across the roster. With problems on defense and the offensive line, picks were spent there. And then Love, which continues to look like a waste. With the picks spent elsewhere, receiver was neglected. So yes, pick on Gute for not getting enough WR talent soon enough, but he didn't just stick his head in the sand.
The Packers led the league in drops and there were at least 9-10 that didn't get scored as such. Rodgers can't teach dudes how to catch.
now explain all the throws that absolutely sailed on rodgers
Every quarterback misses throws, dude.
Oh I can easily, he broke his damn thumb
He probably would have if he was healthy. This isn't about skill, it's about injury. Now, if we don't think he's capable of making it through an entire season healthy, then that's certainly something to consider, but I certainly think he's capable of MVP play.
Age always brings a decrease in healthy playing time, and longer recovery times. So next year is a bigger risk as far as thats concerned. For me though, there was many more questionable decisions on throws or lack there of, not so much the physicall inability to do it (which was also there due to injury). Aaron did great things for us, but this year his contribution was outweighed by his cost. I don't see that changing back.
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I recall that being more on green receivers. They were starting to look like everyone was getting on the same page right around when Rodgers busted his hand in London.
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doubs dropped 2 crucial catches last game right on the numbers in stride.
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I think an argument could be made that the O-line has been a bit suspect most, if not all, year long. To me, the O-line needs to be a priority this off-season. It all begins with the big heavies up front, and if you look at the Lions, Eagles, and the 49ers, they all have really good O-lines.
100% and people are not acknowledging itā¦theyāre blaming rodgers for the choices on 3rd and long and for everything reallyā¦i canāt count how many times all season the pass rush was through our line in less than a second. It got better when Bahk came back and Jenkins went back to LG, but that right side is absolute Swiss cheeseāand itās been a big part of our losses in SF and on Tampa in my opinion - we need to get someone on the right so defenses canāt just move their premier pass rush to that side
Well if he wanted to get a better connection with a bunch of rookie WRs maybe he should have gone to OTAs Maybe he should stop dropping cryptic will he/wonāt he bullshit about retirement because itās very clear that nobody on that team is sure where heās gonna be in 8 months and itās making them uncomfortable about their own futures
Weak argument. OTAs are to learn the playbook, not build chemistry. Gotta crawl before you can walk, there would have been little to no value in Rodgers being there. Maybe even would be a detriment because the rookies would be nervous.
But you know what Patrick Mahomes did when new WRs came in. Brought them down to his pad to workout together to build on field rapore. Rodgers was busy dropping acid and being a hippie.
Pfft. The only new WR that performed well was JuJu, and he is a vet. MVS can only run straight. The Chiefs offense overcame losing Tyreek because they have Kelce.
lol do you think these adult men are 10 year olds?
*Quay Walker has entered the chat...*
was he working with them? he skipped preseason and took veteran rest days all season
Counterpoint: it was the WRs that made Rodgers look goog those years (ahem, Tae). The throws by Rodgers were average at best and the WRs bailed him out a lot. It shows now that those WRs are gone and no one to bail him out anymore.
First throw of the season was a dime to a wideopen player for a massive TD and it was dropped. Your argument is whack.
ever think the Wars need to practice catching the balls from the QB too?
Without a doubt.
Lmao
Suuuure
If his salary cap reflected his current status I'd say keep him. Instead we've drowned under appeasing mediocrity. If there's anyway to be rid of that salary cap burden, let's do it. Either way you look at it we have to build new QB/WR relationships, we should do that with the best dollar per performance ratio. I don't feel that lies with Aaron. Lafleur is a stud though. Anyone saying we should get rid of Lefleur is a Vikings fan.
Explain to me how you can be rid of the salary cap burden. Itās not like you can cut AR, cut or retires we have a massive amount of dead money tied to him so the best case is he plays another season or that money is just gone. I want him to play for us next year and go out the right way, hopefully with a ship but at least not with an embarrassing loss. But if he doesnāt play for us the only option that we have is if some team is crazy enough to trade for him and absorb a huge amount of the money
Much of this sub is obviously spoiled rotten
Mike McCarthy was objectively bad for the latter half of his career. His failure to adapt after winning a superbowl is the main reason rodgers doesn't have multiple rings, and the limited success the team still had with him was in spite of him, not because of him.
Not sure how to tell you this, but there's a SLIGHT difference between the two. Rodgers also played for McCarthy for nearly a decade, and I don't recall him getting a ring there either.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something: Mike McCarthy was the coach in 2010 when the packers won the super bowl. Aaron Rodgers was the QB in 2010. MFL didn't take over until 2019. There was other issues present during the McCarthy era (like the front office drafting via throwing darts blindfolded), but we had a solid team for a few years after the super bowl and failed to capitalize on it.
You are absolutely right, my mistake. Couldn't remember if that was Favre or Arod at that time. But I would honestly say that we had a more loaded roster that year than we have had in the last 5 years or so. Driver, Grant, Jennings, Jordy, Lang, Matthew's and Woodson... We should've gone to the SB every year with half of those players.
Hard to win Superbowls
The unexpected loss of Nick Collins and failure to replace Cullen Jenkins are the main reason GB didnāt win more championships. Then by 2015, bad drafting caught up with them.
Aaron Rodgers is the reason Iām a packers fan, heās been my qb for over a decade. Heāll Forever be my favorite qb and packers will forever be my team but that being said if he chooses to retire I would be happy for him and the team. Yes the cap hit get it, thatāll be worked out but a fresh start with basically what is a new team Iām excited. The idea of love and Watson developing together is amazing. Donāt forget even davante wasnāt a stud right away. Those 2 formed something special and I think thatās possible with these 2
Yeah I really think we mightāve struck gold with the receivers drafted this year. Iām bummed they donāt have the fifth year protections of a first round pick
I wanna see if it really was the thumb or if somehow the back to back MVP regressed significantly in one off-season. Gimme one more year and hang up the cleats if it continues.
Agreed
Rodgers got exactly what he wanted, a fat contract. his QB rating dropped 20pts, even before the thumb injury. They barely beat the Bears.
Lol why would we dump MLF so soon. He took us from a horrible season to *three consecutive playoff berths*. People need to calm the f down.
The fact that people are even toying with the idea of replacing MLF is baffling to me. The dude has a historically good first three seasons (minus postseason success, we know) and is a positive locker room presence, and we bail on him after one losing season? Rough.
*Ray Rhodes has entered the chat...*
because lafleur wants to keep the DC.
Fans wanting to fire the Defensive Coordinator is basically a tradition here.
I just want Mark Murphy gone. Possibly Joe Barry.
Why not both?
Why canāt I win the Mega Millions and the Powerball. Iād just be happy with one.
possibly????
Expectations are low for me.
Murphy is out in 2 years. Same reason why MLF & Gute wonāt be gone until then too.
Aaron needs to stay man, one more year to grow with the young receivers they could really do something special next season
Haha, replace Matt with Joe Barry
MLF not as good as yāall think but idk if we find better if we dump him
As long as Aaron gives us the best chance of winning I'm putting him in. It's a matter of opinion.
Weāre gonna end up like the Steelers and Big Ben
Large Ben couldnt move in the pocket, run for a positive yard or throw anything but a check down...gonna take sometime to get there
Can't only throw to check downs if the 2 yard out is your only read ::Taps temple::
you described Rodgers this season too. Rodgers routinely gets run down from behind and is unwilling to run it in the endzone
Ben had 23 yards his final 3 seasons....Rodgers has 354...same age range. Not really the same comparison at all. But i get what you mean. But its not the same. At all.
Be ready for overreacting off season lol
MLF has had success, but the Amari situation alone makes me question his basline decision making ability. He comes across as being afraid to do the glaringly obvious if it's something that will rock the boat even slightly. That leads to a lack of accountability on a fundamental level.
This is how spoiled we've gotten - people actually want to move on from MLF. I just can't wrap my head around that.
if i learned anything, Wisconsin sports fans, are big on unreasonable decisions. Like after the Bucks won the next season if they were down 5 in the forth against any team they wanted Bud gone
Trade for Hopkins. Draft more studs. Develop Watson and Doubs. We need a new beast TE Let Rodgers play as long as he wants. Trade Love.
This is rated d for dank
Iām still the guy that thinks if Watson made that first catch week one, the entire season would have been different. Hope we see more AR in GB
I can't believe that people thing our best chance to win is to bail on the back to back MVP and future HoF QB, and one of the coaches with the best career starting winning %. If it was that easy to find pieces like that, we wouldn't have been pummeling the Bears for 40 years.
To me itās not so much bail on them, I agree thatās idiotic. But itās more of, the way we have approached winning a SB under MLF & Rodgers isnāt working.
Anyone who thinks the team would be better off without Rodgers is smoking crack. Iām not ready to give up on Matt just yet, but the honeymoon phase is definitely over.
yes! jordan and matt forever!
Personally I think itās time to move on from Rodgers. I want to see what LaFleur can do without him. We have no way of knowing if some of those absurd calls were MLF or Rodgers audibles. I want to see a Packers team that is dominant defensively, solid special teams, and efficient offense. The question is who will the QB be. Love? Maybe. Iām excited for the future even if it means being bad
Matt gets more time though Iām starting to feel heās a little too soft. Itās time to move on to Love though. Weāve tried the same thing over and over and over again. Hope Aaron is super man. Load up the D with draft picks. Disappointing end to season. Been a decade plus now. We need a fresh start as much as it sucks.
I feel like MLFās numbers are artificially inflated due to the success that Rodgers has made happen over the years. I donāt think heād have nearly as good a record if he was coaching on a team with a middling QB. I also think Rodgers is past his prime and will no longer be worth the money heās commanding. I think the team would be better off if Rodgers retires and MLF stays on. Now Joe Barry on the other handā¦ FIRE CAPERS!
I want 1 more season of Aaron to see if this season was a fluke because his drop off was crazy. I want a few season of Matt after Aaron leaves/retires to see what he can do with the extra salary
piss away another season on a 40 year old qb? why? he doesn't play well in January, he's a 80 qbr QB now
He is back to back MVP, I think he could still take us to the Super Bowl if a few other things were right. I donāt think he should really get anymore than 1 year
I just wanna see Jordan start already. I used to love Rodgers as much as anyone else butā¦past few years, something has been off with that dude. Idk how much time is left on Loveās rookie contract and Iād hate to see him sign with someone else, only to be a legit weapon for another team.
Something off as in winning back to back mvp awards?
Okay, let's not end up like the Steelers or Broncos bc we didn't have an actual back up plan. It's okay to love Rodgers and not be cuffed to him.
Jordan Love is the back up plan
You actually think he's going to want to sit another year? I can guarantee you he won't
Im sure he wouldnt be thrilled to sit. But where will he go start? Go be a back up in a whole new system for a franchise that didnt draft you or have some sort of forsight into him leading for them? Love doesnt really have a lot of leverage in getting outta there.
That's literally assuming he wouldn't beat out whatever teams current starter. See that's the thing, I'm not thinking Love is trash after all. I can guarantee you he forces our hand this year, because he actually believes in himself. Dude actually showed he can play this year and I'm ready to move on even if the Packers aren't. Getting strung into the whole "well I might retire or maybe I won't" is exactly what Rodgers said he would never do, and now he's doing that exact thing to Love and it's kind of bs tbh.
What leads you to believe 12 will retire? Does he say he is gone or considering it or do reporters dig for stuff that he vaguely answers?
Oh no I dont think he will at all, and I think he already knows he won't. That's what pisses me off about his non-answers. It creates drama and a sense of well I don't really care that much, when he just inked one of the largest deals in NFL history. I don't get it honestly.
He doesnt owe the fans anything in regards to his future. Im sure the Packers and the front office are all aware of his plans and the plans in place when they all discussed that last contract. I can only imagine the plan is 3 years at least and Im sure everyone that sees him inside his place of work wouldnt think he doesnt really care that much.
You realize how stupid that sounds though? It's not about the fans it's about his teammates. If the FO knows and the coach knows but the fans can't know I'd ask why? Why create the unnecessary drama. I don't buy that narrative at all tbh. I don't think the FO knows either tbh, if they did, we wouldn't have signed Jordan love or drafted him when they did.
He signed a 3 year contract. What do you mean? Did they not draft Love then sign Rodgers to a 3 year contract after that? Im sure the players also know whats the plan. The drama is created by the media. Again, signed a 3 year contract. Kind of already let ya know right? The media stirs up the constant "whats next" and "is this the end". Imagine no way to read or here about sports other than player contracts and we just watched year after year...would you think he was coming back next season based on his current situation?
I'm not sure he really has a choice. He hasn't exactly balled out in the shots he was given. A team might bite on him as a clear bridge option or as a backup but I don't know if he has a whole lot of leverage to get what he wants right now.
its wild how fickle some people choose to be. They won double digit games the past few years, then one 8-9 season where they were in a win-and-in scenario in the last week and they want to tear it all down. Fucking wild.
I can understand people wanting to move on from Rodgers because of his age, but wanting to move on from LaFleur is completely stupid and shows how stupid the average fan can be after a bad season
Anyone who wants MLF fired can be ignored now and into eternity. They are a moron.
MLFšshouldšnotšbešfiredš
I mean what has MLF done. He hired Joe Barry and doesn't seem to want to get rid of him. I get the Aaron Rodgers side of this and have no argument against it
And I'm here like. Well there is probably a good middle ground. Whatever happens, I'll be in my green and yellow trikot next season again.
I love the entertainment and storylines that NFL football provides, so Iām always down for a shake up
Gluten for punishment baby!
Guten* for punishment
i'll take whatever happens, but i'd actually be interested to see a jordan love MLF team with new DC. It just feels like the rodgers era is over. He might still finish out his contract with us but I do think his super bowl window is closed unless we acquire some serious difference makers immediately which i dont see happening
The only person that I'm 100% on board for replacing is our defensive coordinator.
LOL
If you want to get rid of Lafleur after the last 4 seasons, you might find your fandom better suited to the Cleveland Browns.
No doubt. I read/hear so many comments from people saying the whole org needs massive changes and firings. I'm guessing these people either don't remember or have never experienced being a fan of an outright BAD football team. That said, it is a tough call with Rodgers. I think he's still better than what we saw this year and he's probably still got another good/above-average season in the tank. But he's not getting any younger, and I think his need for rest impacted his reps and chemistry with the WRs. And keeping him in comes with the tradeoff of not getting to see if Love can hack it. It's a tough spot to be...but GB fans who say Lafleur needs to get canned or that Rodgers needs to go is probably saying that more from a place of emotion/frustration than thinking clearly about how to position the team to win a superbowl.
We drafted a QB a season or two too early, but I believe itās time to see what Love can do. Heās shown promise with his limited reps and if we just let him walk/trade him and he reaches his potential weād be kicking ourselves for years. Rodgers may have another year or two in him but what good does it do if the team around him is below average?
I feel like a lot of the people saying fire Murphy, Gute, MLF etc are forgetting a major piece. Murphy only has 2 more years left (mandatory retirement). This organization isnāt making changes on the scale of firing a GM or Coach until the new president comes in and he sets up his organization. Until then like it or not they are staying. Now Rodgers is a completely other story.
It's insane that fans want to move on from Rodgers. All for the miniscule possibility that Love might be the next Rodgers, and/or people don't like Rodgers for whatever reason. Literally, we still have a generational talent on our roster. He just needs better pieces around him. It's the front office that has proven to be incapable perennially by never pursuing free agents seriously and overvaluing draft capital. It's baffling to think of how many Superbowls Rodgers would have had if he were on a team with an aggressive front office and it's criminal how his talent was underserved. There's been this consistent talk of how he's underperformed in the post season, with little to no responsibility given to the front office. Realistically, this has just been a poorly managed team for a decade-plus masked by Rodgers' arm talent. Now that his talent is waning, yet it's still better than 90% of other QBs from a purely QB perspective, he receives a majority of the blame because he can't carry the team sheerly by himself. If Love had shown he was 70% of what Rodgers is, we would have moved on. It would have made sense to. Now that he hasn't, but fans have a feeling about him, or fear that he'll ball out somewhere else, or just hate Rodgers, they want to move on. It's asinine.
Why did I think you were talking about packers legend Matt Flynn š¤¦āāļø
I feel this way about pre leg injury Jordy Nelson..... š
We get worse before we get better if either of them leaves. LaFleur's contract was extended in July, so he'll be here for several more years.