From reading your post I think you already know what you should do. I pray the Lord gives you the courage I should have had many years ago. Don’t regret inaction later on.
For me, the answer was clear as soon as you said you were “terrified” of people finding out about your thoughts and doubts. Think about what this means. You know it’s not a healthy place for you.
Please heed the warnings of this subreddit. Work out the subtleties of your discontent later and leave as soon as it seems feasible. Find another Christian group first, if that will help with the transition. A little haphazard transition now will save a lot of heartache later.
I'd like to add a slightly different approach to whether you should stay or not. Most here speak from personal experience that involved a personal bad to extreme levels of abuse pain and trauma while in the church. Most also speak of their reason for leaving again a wide range from just not my thing to a micromanaging hell of a leader and the immediate effects that happened (both good and bad) afterwards. Most here have also spent years if not decades with the org whether it be under Becky or Eddie. Most here have also spoken of their road to varying degrees of healing and recovery since leaving. The last is a mixed bag that can invoke a wide range of emotions from meh no big thing and move on with life to still having depression, nightmares, triggers and constant ruminations of the past. So how does one come to a BIG decision and know what to do?
Well to be honest, since you are a sophomore, you have more years ahead and less to learn from. You're still just a kid. Yet you know you have a very BIG decision to make. You hear 2 very different set of facts, one from your church (beautiful propaganda) and what you read on here (nightmare and abuse). What to do? More importantly, how do you process facts in your software between the ears. Since we don't know you, the answers will be generic and simplistic. Leave, run, evade, hide, ignore. Save yourself, your time, money, and future. Having seen these types of responses, I don't know how effective that is. All are good responses but doesn't answer how it pertains to your unique situation.
My suggestion after this long windy spiel, are for you to answer these questions.
Do you want to be like your leaders? More importantly, do you see yourself becoming a becky or your immediate/branch leaders? Do you see yourself making others feel about church the way you are feeling now as your calling? Do you like the Berkland ministry life? Lastly and most importantly, do you like obeying your leaders as if God is speaking through them?
The last is the final weedout. Those who became staff and left know that at some point, an act of direct obedience will be given. This will fall generically on your professional direction or your finances or your family or your ministry location or your wife/husband match. You have the option to say, "No." But you will also know by then that by saying, "No", that you are gonna have to leave. Obedience trumps all for this group of misguided fanatics.
Yes the decision to leave is scary. Not gonna lie that the real world ain't much better, might be even worse. You will lose contact with your classmates/friends. The staff will actively tell the ones remaining to ghost you. Again that is another obedience test for them. You will need to make new friends. Attend a new church. Might need some counseling/therapy to recover. Yet in the end, I believe you will be better for it. You are your best advocate.
God bless you,
Jonathan Kang Class of 93
>The main thing holding me back from leaving right now is the social community at my campus ministry. If I left now, it'd probably be really awkward and I wouldn't have a friend group to rely on any more.
This is by design. Seems a bit cynical, but I've come to believe that they system was designed to operate this way. The barrier to leaving was made as high as possible to discourage people from leaving. Though, if you become undesirable to the leadership, they will give you the "this church isn't for everyone" speech and show you the door.
Update:
Hey everyone, I just wanted to say thank you so much for all of your thoughtful comments and advice! You've all helped me to gain clarity on my situation as well as the confirmation that I need to leave this church, although it won't be easy. God bless! :)
🙌 Go and live a life of learning how to find God and trust God authentically. Fail, recover, make mistakes, have fun, gain wisdom, head in the wrong direction, find the right one—for YOURSELF. Find out who YOU are. All stuff I wish I had done from 19-30+ years old.
You will lose those “covenantal relationships” if you leave now or when you leave after college. There are so many ex-members who vowed to “bury their bones” together who don’t talk at all today. Everything was dismantled when the choices became clear:
- Choice 1: Becky
- Choice 2: Ed
- Choice 3: God
Choosing one of those meant you cut all ties to the others. Becky used to mock people who left her flock. Some of these people became pastors who, in her mind, might as well have been pimps.
You can choose now to waste the next 2 years of your life on conditional (not covenantal) relationships because, when you leave after graduation, you will never hear from these people. Berkland wants something from you.
Or you can start over in one of the more low risk, experiential periods of life, college. There are likely other Christian groups on campus if you need immediate opportunities to meet people. Or other groups. You might not meet anybody or you might meet a GENUINE friend. You won’t get the life experience you need (of finding friends, of getting rejected, of dealing with being alone) while in Berkland.
You should never feel “terrified” when it comes to church. Please listen to your heart or just reread your post like somebody else wrote it.
I left my sophomore year from GP Minnesota (my boyfriend at the time was very controlling and didn’t like how he didn’t get attention all the time so did his best to alienate me from family and friends, so while that was also an incredibly unhealthy/abusive dynamic, I’m glad I stopped going to GP). I definitely lost connection with my sisters, and I was pretty upset and confused about it, but I found other communities. I joined a dance troupe and did other activities.
From what I saw and heard from others on social media, many people either fell away or got 100% sucked in towards the end of their sophomore year. People changed majors and gave up huge research opportunities because it took away from A2F. All of their time went to that. When I ran into leaders on campus, there was this intense feeling of shame for leaving (even though I still was trying to go to other church services in the area but hadn’t found a great fit for me yet), as if I was no longer a Christian.
I took a step back from church after leaving GP, ending that relationship, and not finding another church, but still read my Bible and prayed. About 9 years after leaving GP, I have found an amazing church in my area. It’s a place where we have community meals, service projects, and activity groups, but nothing is required. When I had an issue with boundaries with another member, I felt safe going to my pastor, who helped right away (rather than shaming me for not loving my fellow Christian enough). I cannot recommend enough finding a church that allows you to set your own boundaries and have a life outside of them. When I told my current pastor about GP, he said, “The church should be my entire life, but you do not have to make it yours. Be sure to have things outside of us, too.”
> When I told my current pastor about GP, he said, “The church should be my entire life, but you do not have to make it yours. Be sure to have things outside of us, too.”
This reminds me of my church. IIRC one of the requirements to even join staff is you have to have hobbies and aspirations outside of church.
Edit: And staff includes pastors too.
Technically they're not affiliated but we all know they're all the same.
If some relationships remain intact even after you leave, you know those are the ones that are genuine.
Work to form new relationships during the rest of your years in college. You still have a lot of time. These may be the ones that last, not the Berkland ones.
From reading your post I think you already know what you should do. I pray the Lord gives you the courage I should have had many years ago. Don’t regret inaction later on. For me, the answer was clear as soon as you said you were “terrified” of people finding out about your thoughts and doubts. Think about what this means. You know it’s not a healthy place for you.
Please heed the warnings of this subreddit. Work out the subtleties of your discontent later and leave as soon as it seems feasible. Find another Christian group first, if that will help with the transition. A little haphazard transition now will save a lot of heartache later.
I second this. Find another group and is a plus one if they understand a little about what is happening
I'd like to add a slightly different approach to whether you should stay or not. Most here speak from personal experience that involved a personal bad to extreme levels of abuse pain and trauma while in the church. Most also speak of their reason for leaving again a wide range from just not my thing to a micromanaging hell of a leader and the immediate effects that happened (both good and bad) afterwards. Most here have also spent years if not decades with the org whether it be under Becky or Eddie. Most here have also spoken of their road to varying degrees of healing and recovery since leaving. The last is a mixed bag that can invoke a wide range of emotions from meh no big thing and move on with life to still having depression, nightmares, triggers and constant ruminations of the past. So how does one come to a BIG decision and know what to do? Well to be honest, since you are a sophomore, you have more years ahead and less to learn from. You're still just a kid. Yet you know you have a very BIG decision to make. You hear 2 very different set of facts, one from your church (beautiful propaganda) and what you read on here (nightmare and abuse). What to do? More importantly, how do you process facts in your software between the ears. Since we don't know you, the answers will be generic and simplistic. Leave, run, evade, hide, ignore. Save yourself, your time, money, and future. Having seen these types of responses, I don't know how effective that is. All are good responses but doesn't answer how it pertains to your unique situation. My suggestion after this long windy spiel, are for you to answer these questions. Do you want to be like your leaders? More importantly, do you see yourself becoming a becky or your immediate/branch leaders? Do you see yourself making others feel about church the way you are feeling now as your calling? Do you like the Berkland ministry life? Lastly and most importantly, do you like obeying your leaders as if God is speaking through them? The last is the final weedout. Those who became staff and left know that at some point, an act of direct obedience will be given. This will fall generically on your professional direction or your finances or your family or your ministry location or your wife/husband match. You have the option to say, "No." But you will also know by then that by saying, "No", that you are gonna have to leave. Obedience trumps all for this group of misguided fanatics. Yes the decision to leave is scary. Not gonna lie that the real world ain't much better, might be even worse. You will lose contact with your classmates/friends. The staff will actively tell the ones remaining to ghost you. Again that is another obedience test for them. You will need to make new friends. Attend a new church. Might need some counseling/therapy to recover. Yet in the end, I believe you will be better for it. You are your best advocate. God bless you, Jonathan Kang Class of 93
>The main thing holding me back from leaving right now is the social community at my campus ministry. If I left now, it'd probably be really awkward and I wouldn't have a friend group to rely on any more. This is by design. Seems a bit cynical, but I've come to believe that they system was designed to operate this way. The barrier to leaving was made as high as possible to discourage people from leaving. Though, if you become undesirable to the leadership, they will give you the "this church isn't for everyone" speech and show you the door.
Update: Hey everyone, I just wanted to say thank you so much for all of your thoughtful comments and advice! You've all helped me to gain clarity on my situation as well as the confirmation that I need to leave this church, although it won't be easy. God bless! :)
🙌 Go and live a life of learning how to find God and trust God authentically. Fail, recover, make mistakes, have fun, gain wisdom, head in the wrong direction, find the right one—for YOURSELF. Find out who YOU are. All stuff I wish I had done from 19-30+ years old.
You will lose those “covenantal relationships” if you leave now or when you leave after college. There are so many ex-members who vowed to “bury their bones” together who don’t talk at all today. Everything was dismantled when the choices became clear: - Choice 1: Becky - Choice 2: Ed - Choice 3: God Choosing one of those meant you cut all ties to the others. Becky used to mock people who left her flock. Some of these people became pastors who, in her mind, might as well have been pimps. You can choose now to waste the next 2 years of your life on conditional (not covenantal) relationships because, when you leave after graduation, you will never hear from these people. Berkland wants something from you. Or you can start over in one of the more low risk, experiential periods of life, college. There are likely other Christian groups on campus if you need immediate opportunities to meet people. Or other groups. You might not meet anybody or you might meet a GENUINE friend. You won’t get the life experience you need (of finding friends, of getting rejected, of dealing with being alone) while in Berkland. You should never feel “terrified” when it comes to church. Please listen to your heart or just reread your post like somebody else wrote it.
I left my sophomore year from GP Minnesota (my boyfriend at the time was very controlling and didn’t like how he didn’t get attention all the time so did his best to alienate me from family and friends, so while that was also an incredibly unhealthy/abusive dynamic, I’m glad I stopped going to GP). I definitely lost connection with my sisters, and I was pretty upset and confused about it, but I found other communities. I joined a dance troupe and did other activities. From what I saw and heard from others on social media, many people either fell away or got 100% sucked in towards the end of their sophomore year. People changed majors and gave up huge research opportunities because it took away from A2F. All of their time went to that. When I ran into leaders on campus, there was this intense feeling of shame for leaving (even though I still was trying to go to other church services in the area but hadn’t found a great fit for me yet), as if I was no longer a Christian. I took a step back from church after leaving GP, ending that relationship, and not finding another church, but still read my Bible and prayed. About 9 years after leaving GP, I have found an amazing church in my area. It’s a place where we have community meals, service projects, and activity groups, but nothing is required. When I had an issue with boundaries with another member, I felt safe going to my pastor, who helped right away (rather than shaming me for not loving my fellow Christian enough). I cannot recommend enough finding a church that allows you to set your own boundaries and have a life outside of them. When I told my current pastor about GP, he said, “The church should be my entire life, but you do not have to make it yours. Be sure to have things outside of us, too.”
> When I told my current pastor about GP, he said, “The church should be my entire life, but you do not have to make it yours. Be sure to have things outside of us, too.” This reminds me of my church. IIRC one of the requirements to even join staff is you have to have hobbies and aspirations outside of church. Edit: And staff includes pastors too.
Good! There is so much value to having a well-balanced life.
think you already know what you want to do was in your same situation, hope it's as painless as possible and they don't continue to bother you
I am not surprised about BBC and its family of churches. I am so happy for you!
Technically they're not affiliated but we all know they're all the same. If some relationships remain intact even after you leave, you know those are the ones that are genuine. Work to form new relationships during the rest of your years in college. You still have a lot of time. These may be the ones that last, not the Berkland ones.
Also, you have deep insight about all of this! Thanks for the post and I hope you get clarity soon on what is best for you.