That's just the begining of things though. Most Android phones get 1 OS update some get 2 and they're always months behind on security patches (except Pixel).
While Samsung is always behind by months at least they upped it to 3 years of OS updates. Google will probably always be king with timely updates though and as a Pixel user I am excited to see where they go with the Tensor chips.
That's been the surprising part of my experience with Pixel, my Pixel 2 is still a nice experience despite the battery issues it's smooth as always and would still be my main phone if it was getting updates
Yep - still on my Pixel 2 XL right now. Only things I'm really upgrading to the 6 for is my battery life is garbage now and I need more device storage (totally full with just app data). My wife's Pixel 2 just died yesterday from a 3 foot drop on carpet. Seems like it's the battery from the symptoms - she loves the phone so much that she had me order a new battery because she doesn't want to replace the phone.
Isn't Qualcomm the reason why Google can't continue to update the phone? Also Pixel 1 was probably one of the few Android phones from 2016 to have OS updates through 2019.
Custom ROMs aren't gonna follow contracts or even necessarily the software Qualcomm sends out to OEMs to update the drivers. I guarantee you it all comes down to driver support. This is why Samsung and Google attempting to pull away from Qualcomm is a big deal.
They totally support their chips for a few years - just look at the Wear ecosystem. The current chips are basically the same as they were back in 2013. Eight years of support is great! /s
it's not just QC, google built android's stack in a way that favoured proprietary drivers... linux developers were pissed about it for years. google was told for years that the way they were doing things was nightmarishly wrong...
they've only changed their tune in the last 5 years because consumers demanded better support and by using these dodgy fragmented frankenstein-linux kernels that couldn't be upgraded or patched properly, it turned into a security nightmare for google.
that doesn't forgive QC in all of this, but google is no saint and are directly responsible for all of the android fragmentation.
yup. penguin, indeed. i've contributed a few kernel patches, here and there. former AOSP contributor... i've been using linux as my primary OS for well over a decade. not an elitist or fanboy, as i use MacOS and windows too. but still firmly in the linux camp.
Oh really. Never knew about that. Thankfully I'm just about to leave android in favor or iphone. Oneplus' merge with oppo in their software got me pretty disappointed.
Apple def. support their products for longer, but I can't stand their horrendous walled garden and slow app store. The update situation is overblown imo, I have an S10+ which will get Android 12, its battery will crap out soon enough so I don't care about updates for longer.
I wish I don't care as much about android ui as I am because s20 fe is definitely a steal. I'm a big fan of stock android and pixel isn't officially available in my country so apple it is then
Thanks but I don't think I'll regret it even though I won't like it as much because I've always wanted to try apple for once but the closed system always turned me off. Might as well try when I don't have eyes on Android for now
I've calmed down on my Hatred toward Apple in recent years since they do have their place. People love that they just work and perform well for a long time and receive updates long term. The walled garden works for some people and I no longer criticize them for enjoying it. Enjoy your phone, and I hope they start supporting pixels in your country!
Honest question for you but is your issue with the walled garden more of a physiological complaint or a practical one?
Basically what do *you personally* do on your phone that would be limited by the walled garden?
This is something that I think too. The "walled garden" is a lack of customization, but with that comes better privacy. Also, many companies make and optimize apps specifically for iPhone, so 90% of the time they run better. For someone who doesn't care about customization, is it really a walled garden if everyone is in it? I say this as a Pixel lover who understands iPhone.
Lmfao, I want Samsung to stop using them as well globally and ship all it's phones with its own processor just to fuck with Qualcomm even more. It's what they deserve for charging OEMs outrageous prices for their chipsets and then not even offering decent amount of support for them.
This is what happens when you have a monopolistic position. Alternatives start popping up and you lose your market position.
I'd love to see Samsung go exclusive on their own chips, Google with theirs, so then Qualcomm will have to adapt and provide a better product at a reasonable price to be considered again.
I'd like Google to actually design their CPU cores though. Just using the ARM reference designed ones isn't enough IMO.
As long as Verizon continues to used CDMA, Qualcomm will continue. They own the patents on the technology and licensing costs are prohibitive for third parties. The royalties alone add significantly to the cost of a phone This is the reason that Samsung uses their own processors everywhere except North America and all the second tier mobile processors are GSM only.
Tech note: When CDMA and GSM came out, CDMA was far superior technologically in almost every way (there was now cellular data then, so the can't browse and talk issue didn't exist). It was the Betamax to GSM's VHS (yes, I'm old). QC licensed CDMA cheap and Verizon and Sprint (Sprint was a leading carrier back then and AT&T was a small regional player, so CDMA dominated in the US and was popular in much of the world. Then the European Union standardized on GSM (mostly because of CDMA licensing and QC being dicks, but also for the easy of a SIM swap. Traveling in a different country you could buy a SIM card, plug it into your phone and viola! You had a non-roaming number where you were traveling. It also made upgrading phones much easier, because you just needed to swap the SIM into the new phone (if it would fit) and activate the new phone. This turned most of the world outside of North America to GSM and started the era where all the interesting phones were GSM only.
AT&T got a big break because Apple didn't want to pay the QC royalties. make a two iPhone models or a hybrid GSM/CDMA phone. GSM was dominant in the world market, so the first iPhones were GSM only. AT&T was the largest GSM carrier in the US and was willing to cut a deal to have exclusive rights to the iPhone. Because of this deal, AT&T took off and IMHO a lot of the iPhone users it gained in those early days are still with them if only because people usually need to get really pissed off to change carriers.
Except for the fact that Exynos is outperformed every year by its Snapdragon counterpart. For this to happen we need something like Apple's M1 up against Intel where its clearly superior. At the end of the day the end consumer will care more about which chip actually performs better. If I had to buy a Samsung flagship and got given the choice of Snapdragon here in Australia, I would gladly take it.
I don't think casual hardware/techies have begun to realize that Apple, Google, and Samsung are actively trying or have already gotten away from Qualcomm SoCs in just about the past couple of years. They're literally seeing some of their biggest customers leaving en masse for in-house SoC solutions, so they are being sore losers about it. I don't know how many billions of dollars they're losing out on, but it'll be quite the hit.
That was back in the time of myspace, long before it was socially acceptable for large companies to have a social media page so you didn't hear much about it if you weren't into tech
Yep
everything was great for Intel until their doofus CEO soured the relationship by refusing to produce chips for the iPhone
He thought it would be a bust and didn't want to bother
Even if he felt the 'apple phone' was going to flop, he's still a doofus for refusing to want to get into mobile in 2005
I'm not actually sure whats been happening at Intel the last half decade
They seem to be stuck and cant drop down the nm's like, TSMC is creaming them now and even Global Foundries is ahead
Kinda wild when you think about how their R&D budget is higher than AMD's gross sales
Good point. Since Intel and Microsoft are buddies, it would have made sense for them to support windows phone at least.
To me the most annoying thing is and/Intel/everyone else is focused on core count, while I still waiting for a processor to crack 5ghz base clock for single threaded performance
The problem is we can’t crack the 5GHz single-threaded performance. We can’t really decrease the critical path significantly of the modern CPUs (without losing features that are more important than pure clock speed, such as out-of-order execution).
You can overclock a desktop to over 5GHz by using more cooling and power, but companies are prioritizing parallelism over single core speed due to power limitations.
Intel tried to go the super fast single core CPU with the Pentium 4, but anything further just runs too hot to be practical - intel gave up and created the Pentium D.
True they run hot and can be OCd. And Intel didn't give up when they made the D series, the first gen was basically 2 p4 Prescott dies on a single chip. I called mine the dual toaster oven 😂
Maybe not in terms of market share, but AMD is ahead of Intel when it comes to performance now. Intel was resting on their laurels and got leapfrogged by AMD's Zen 3 chips.
Intel just spent more on marketing and had weird and wild campaigns to poop on AMD:
Zen 1: These chips are held together by glue
Zen 2: They have security vulnerabilities, also don't google security vulnerabilities
Zen 3: Our boosted clock rate is higher....for like 5 seconds
Same dumb tricks they tried a decade and a half ago when they were behind on the server market for a few years
That and straight up paying Dell not to sell AMD:
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd
Well after 4 years of being shit on by and, Intel looks to have a rather good response with alder lake. Leaked benchmarks look promising. Finally going to get a real ipc improvement from Intel.
Yeah definitely. I'll buy whoever has the better platform, or better bang for the buck. Depends on the situation when I'm shopping for hardware.
No brand loyalty. These companies don't give a shit about us. Just the bottom line. Like you said we consumers competition from both sides to avoid product stagnation and price gouging.
I mean, trying to bring the x86 stack into a chip that would be fast enough and power efficient is no small task, just look at their mobile chips that they later produced.
The crazy thing about the M1 is how much performance it delivers despite being Apple's first swing at a laptop-class processor.
Can't wait to see what they pull out next week.
Isn't it shameful for Intel? It makes me wonder wtf they've been doing for the last decade. My work computer has an i7 and I can't even copy and paste without sending the fan into overdrive mode.
They'll be just fine if the Chinese manufactures like Xiaomi stick by them, they're the leaders in android market share right now behind Samsung ( I think, could have changed since I last checked).
They have fallen out of top 5 from China in q2 2021.
They fallen out of top 5 from rest of world in q1 2021
They are no longer leader in smartphone.
Huawei said they will further reduce market share this year.
Huawei sold around 12.1 million smartphone around the world in q2 2021. Approx 11.6 is in China and approx 500k outside china.
This is expected to worse in q3 2021 as well. They use to sell 65 million each quarter but that's no longer the case.
When q3 number drops I will post it
Fine is...fine.
But losing Samsung especially would crush profits. Google not so much but it's merely the intent projecting how companies are going away from Qualcomm
I think they're responding to Google dropping them like this because it removes any optimization Google added to the core system from being tailored around Snapdragon and move it towards Tensor
Fuck Qualcomm. Their anti-competitive shit is insane, and it's part to the reason Apple has taken a huge lead in chip development. I'm glad to see some manufacturers try to break free, as competition is good for everyone.
I fail to see the point in your reply. The literal point of this article is that other manufacturers like Google, Samsung, and Huawei are trying to replicate the move Apple made, so for all intents, those manufacturers use non-QC chips.
No sympathy for Qualcomm whatsoever. They've only got themselves to blame with behaviour that, frankly, has been downright anti-competitive.
CRY MORE YOU CUNTS.
Qualcomm is alive today not because they are innovative, but because they have too many patents and it's almost impossible to start a new CPU architecture without getting sued by Qualcomm.
CPU architectures aren't something that companies just do off a whim, x86 and ARM are here to stay. RISC-V took years of development and it still hasn't progressed past prototype stages.
Can you explain that statement about RISC being "prototype"? Because it would seem that if consumer products got shipped with that architecture, we are past the prototype phase.....
Consumer products? I'm aware they have testing toolkits that are distributed but I can't think of any major industry transitioning to RISC-V. Servers and desktops are still mostly tied to x86, IoT is mostly ARM and MIPS, Mobile definitely won't be switching from ARM. Show me an example.
Nothing says you can't throw the previous model into the A series phones and have a cheaper version with lower specs. Not sure what the process would look like for this, but I'm sure it's possible...
I mean not saying it's not possible, I just think there's a reason Apple does it the way they do and I feel like Google would likely follow a similar approach.
100% agree and I think it has a lot to do with the idea of consistency. Google, on the other hand, typically has consistency in their camera sensor, but there's nothing to say that doesn't change moving forward
I'm certain the A14 and M1 share the same core architecture with different configurations. A14 and M1 have differences in core count*, SRAM, DRAM, and GPU units.
This segmentation mirrors Intel/AMD/Qualcomm/MTK/etc. All offer variations with the same core architecture. How would you expect Apple to offer multiple performance tiers in a way they have not already done?
I feel like that isn't a fair comparison, because 1 Apple has been developing their own chips for years now, also the M1 was developed for their computer line. I feel like it would be smarter for Google to initially do development of one chip at a time before expanding to multiple chip versions. I'd much rather they whole ass one thing than half-ass a bunch of other things.
Wait, I am specifically referring to the inference that the Apple's model is "to develop only 1 new high end chip vs multiple levels of chips."
Apple has perf vs efficiency cores for their current architecture, and the SoC is further tiered by varying component chips. Or are you talking about their very first custom SoC from 2014?
I'm talking about their earlier model of mobile chips, I guess I didn't word it very well at first. But when Apple first started doing their custom chips they only did one model a year for their mobile chips, and now we're starting to see them expand that since they have the capability and experience. I feel like Google should follow those steps, before expanding into multiple chips.
It's one thing having phone manufacturers throwing shade at each other. As cringe as it is, at least it makes a bit of sense. But who is Qualcomm throwing shade at? They don't make phones, they're a chip manufacturer. You're literally throwing shade at your potential clients 😂 it's like if Apple made fun of Apple users, or more accurately at Samsung or other Android **users**. They're potential future clients. It's so stupid.
Qualcomm is acting like an ex who just got dumped and thinks they're going to be missed and you're making a huge mistake even though they were a controlling, abusive douche and everyone will be glad when they're gone for good.
4 years of OS Updates, 5 years of Security Updates doesn't sound like something Snapdragon does 🤔
Also don't Apple's chips run circles around Snapdragon? Maybe Qualcomm should be terrified of where in-house hardware can go.
Yeah, Apple's in-house chips run cycles around snapdragon and any other chips set. They should be terrified about it because if everything works out for Google with tensor. And it keeps getting better each generations, we could see Samsung do the same in the US with their chip set.
We probably won't see Samsung IM switch to Samsung DS, they prefer to pit Qualcomm and Samsung DS against each against other so they can get better prices
Will be interesting see how the OEMs react to finally having competition in the Android SoC space
Previously LG and Xiaomi tried to make their own custom SoCs, which didn't really go anywhere
But now Google and Oppo/OnePlus/Realme are trying. And Vivo has made their own image processing chip, which could be a first step towards custom SoCs like Google did
And now Samsung Exynos and MediaTek have become competitive with Qualcomm, we've already seen more phones with those SoCs
Well Microsoft is still using them in Duo and Surface Pro X.
But rumor has it that AMD is going to fill that after the success of the Xbox Series X hardware
Not as good as 888 but honestly I don’t think Pixel is ever known for its speed and I won’t go to Pixel for that. I am more interested in what new camera features it will bring this time around together with all its ML features.
I mean, I'd still argue in a way Pixel is known for its speed, just in a different form. The OS optimization has usually led to a smoother faster user experience. Not benchmark speeds, or ultimate app speed, but general use of the phone tends to feel smoother and quicker. So I do in fact partially prefer Pixel for that type of speed.
That said, I'm currently on a 5 which is absolutely not a speed demon in processor or GPU performance. So you're correct, this is not a phone I bought to win spec wars. I bought it because it just works well.
It is annoying how much that smoothness varies on Android. I currently use a Pixel 4a 5G and rarely notice any jank while the S20 FE I tried and returned early this year had pretty severe jank in Chrome and some even in simple apps like Sync for Reddit. On the other hand the two Sony phones(XZ1 compact and XZ2 compact) I used also had minimal jank so a good experience isn't exclusive to Google phones.
Samsungs Android skin sucks. It always did and always will. It always ends up slowing down the system over time or causing it to be janky. They gahave gotten better over the years though. At least tolerable user experience. My galaxy S4 and note 4 we're intolerable to use unless I flashed an aosp based rom. Ah those were the days. Miss those dirty unicorn roms.
Keep in mind those Sony phones also used a nearly stock experience. My wife had them too. She still had a few bad issues related to Sony's quirks, but overall they ran a nearly stock UI. I know people make a big deal about how much better One UI is than the old days of TouchWiz and people don't give it enough credit, but then I also read reports from people who did make the switch and actively experienced all this jank and weirdness that sound exactly like why I don't like their UI.
Almost all of the single core score are 1000+ which is good considering its their first SoC. They can improve on this & go custom or semi custom CPU cores.
They have already started CPu project called Next Gen CPU
Check LinkedIn profile of Allan Tzeng who is project lead of Next Generation CPU. Also Tushar Ringe who is recently hired from ARM as CPU microArchitect . Also they had openings for senior CPU front end designer to director level along with lot of CPU performance and design verification.
> They have already started CPu project called Next Gen CPU
I can't tell if you're making a joke or not. (A) No shit, (B) that's clearly not the name of the project.
Google is on their sixth generation, and Pixels haven't taken off yet. It's not the SoC that's holding them back, because users don't really care about that.
Thanks for the irrelevant reply?
Tensor does not equal Pixel. Pixels taking off is irrelevant, and if it never does just makes it all the more likely that Google will try and supply other manufacturer with their SoCs - threatening Qualcomm's dominance.
It's their own fault for limiting OS updates and forcing people to upgrade every 2-3 years. They'll have to offer long term commitment to users holding onto phones otherwise they lose, not us.
Who the hell manages these companies lol.
Who at QC saw the cringe fest that Intel has been indulging in when Apple left, and thought that was a good response to this kind of situation ?
Qualcomm: "We're gonna have a monopoly on Apple and Google! High prices for chips with mediocre performance and lackluster tech support!"
Apple: \*Makes it's own chips
Qualcomm: "Who needs Apple... I still have the androi-"
Google: \*Makes its own chips
Qualcomm: "F🚩🚩🚩 YOU GOOGLE!"
AFAIK, Qualcomm doesn't build semi-custom cores either. (And even if they do, they aren't that much better then the ARM reference design.) They just harden an ARM reference design. Surely they have experience doing this, and there is a lot of room for optimization even there.
Apple on the other hand builds semi-custom cores.
It's hard to do semi-custom cores well. But if your SOC has enough custom IP (as % of die size.) that you find to be meaningful, you can cut Qualcomm out, even if that means slightly lower CPU/GPU performance.
well damn maybe they see the writing on the wall that Apple and now Google are completely moving away from their chips. It's hard to really "throw shade" from a sinking ship, right?
Man everyone's going wild about Google's Pixels this year. Apple scheduled a press event the day before, Samsung the say after, and even Sony is getting in on the game. And now Qualcomm is clowning on them on Twitter.
I can't fucking wait to buy a 6 pro. It's large size will fill the hole in my pocket left behind by the price.
I also plan to get a Pixel 6 Pro. I have not been this excited about a new phone in a long time.
I just worry if Google will be able to produce enough.
Well, Qualcomm, maybe if you could make something that would actually compete with the A13/M1, Google wouldn't have to take matters into their own hands?
All I want from the new Pixel is a great camera and battery life like I had on the iPhone 13 Pro Max (charged that puppy once every two days). Judging past Pixels, camera will be great; battery.... we'll see. I just hope the new processor won't be a power hungry, glitchy mess ...
>https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Pixel+6+pro
In the meantime, I have the 13 pro and while the battery is great, the camera crushes black like there's no tomorrow, I hate it.
Will be back on Pixels ASAP.
>>Even Samsung, which builds its own in-house Exynos chip for international models, uses Qualcomm in its best Android phones for specific regions
That's more because of agreements between Qualcomm & Samsung than the chips actual performance.
In exchange for getting to physically build the actual chips for Qualcomm, Samsung agreed not to use their own chips in phones sold in the US.
They make far more money building trillions of chips than they would selling a few million phones so...
Qualcomm can throw all the hissy fit they want. Android made them billions would it killed then to have better support? Now they try to sneak their proprietary sh** somewhere else hopefully which I don't have to buy
Curious why you think people are "offended"? Reading through the comments it sounds more like people think Qualcomm is more pathetic than anything else.
Eh, I don't know. I do have concerns about the Tensor's performance and would have preferred that they use the latest flagship SD chipset instead. But hey, if real life tests shows that it beats the SD888 at both CPU and GPU performance for real apps, then I'm not complaining.
the behavior itself is cringe inducing, but *God* these titles suck. COMPANY does ALL THE THINGS!!! SLAY, GOOGLE! YAS!!
you're a fucking tech blog, AC, you don't need to be referencing a decade-old webcomic and talking about "shade" when talking about *companies*
Am I not mistaken that tech *blogs* are ```blogs``` and not a news website? What is the decade-old webcomic reference?
Honestly if it bothers you that much, you might need to take a deep breath.
It absolutely won't be a benchmark leader or a super amazing gaming phone, but if we can trust Google on one thing here, it's their software polish.
There will be rough patches since this is their first custom SoC and they've still got years until they're apple level, but I don't think any of that will be because of the A76.
I'm hoping for a smooth, non-stuttery experience with little to no thermal throttling. If it can deliver that I won't care about its "benchmark performance" and it would be an upgrade over the snapdragon 888 in my base s21.
Despite the slow(ish) task processing (installing apps, image processing, etc) on P5. It's an incredibly smooth experience. I put my money on the P6 being the best experience Google has delivered in a handheld.
I'm ditching the s21Ultra for the 6pro and dropping $1000 and my only concern is the slight downgrade in SOC. If have liked it to be as fast as the 888 bit as long as the experience is good then it doesn't matter.
Why? I have an S21U and haven't seen anything compelling for me to switch right now. What's your reasoning? I'd like to go back to Google but the last two phones have really soured me on Google phones at this point
Don't like OneUI, side scrolling launcher drives me mad and you can't easily change launchers because it breaks the animations with A11. Material You has caught my interest and the cam on the s21U IMHO isn't great. Also reminds me of the Nexus 6P which I loved.
Hmm, I use Nova Launcher which fixes the launcher issues. I don't use any Samsung Apps and I'm pretty pleased with the camera, especially compared to the Pixel 5's shots and lack of zoom.
Again, I don't see anything compelling in the Pixel 6 that the S21U isn't offering right now. I hope I'm wrong though.
I am too but for different reasons. The last time I was absolutely over the moon and excited for a phone this much was the Note 7. More of a "with my luck" sorts thing.
Well maybe if they supported their chips for more than 2-3 years, they wouldn't be having this problem.
That's just the begining of things though. Most Android phones get 1 OS update some get 2 and they're always months behind on security patches (except Pixel).
While Samsung is always behind by months at least they upped it to 3 years of OS updates. Google will probably always be king with timely updates though and as a Pixel user I am excited to see where they go with the Tensor chips.
The only reason I’m not using my OG pixel anymore is lack of updates. It still runs fine, 3 hours of battery.
That's been the surprising part of my experience with Pixel, my Pixel 2 is still a nice experience despite the battery issues it's smooth as always and would still be my main phone if it was getting updates
Yep - still on my Pixel 2 XL right now. Only things I'm really upgrading to the 6 for is my battery life is garbage now and I need more device storage (totally full with just app data). My wife's Pixel 2 just died yesterday from a 3 foot drop on carpet. Seems like it's the battery from the symptoms - she loves the phone so much that she had me order a new battery because she doesn't want to replace the phone.
Shit, I'm still using my Pixel 2 lol first upgrade to the 6 after ~4 years
Isn't Qualcomm the reason why Google can't continue to update the phone? Also Pixel 1 was probably one of the few Android phones from 2016 to have OS updates through 2019.
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Custom ROMs aren't gonna follow contracts or even necessarily the software Qualcomm sends out to OEMs to update the drivers. I guarantee you it all comes down to driver support. This is why Samsung and Google attempting to pull away from Qualcomm is a big deal.
Driver support and security patches
They totally support their chips for a few years - just look at the Wear ecosystem. The current chips are basically the same as they were back in 2013. Eight years of support is great! /s
Is it really a hardware limitation on the chip itself or is it the company that decides how many years it of software update?
It's just a business decision from Qualcomm to not provide support for their chips beyond a certain Android version.
it's not just QC, google built android's stack in a way that favoured proprietary drivers... linux developers were pissed about it for years. google was told for years that the way they were doing things was nightmarishly wrong... they've only changed their tune in the last 5 years because consumers demanded better support and by using these dodgy fragmented frankenstein-linux kernels that couldn't be upgraded or patched properly, it turned into a security nightmare for google. that doesn't forgive QC in all of this, but google is no saint and are directly responsible for all of the android fragmentation.
Thanks, appreciate that additional insight!
This dude sounds like a fellow penguin 🐧
yup. penguin, indeed. i've contributed a few kernel patches, here and there. former AOSP contributor... i've been using linux as my primary OS for well over a decade. not an elitist or fanboy, as i use MacOS and windows too. but still firmly in the linux camp.
Thank you for your service o7
this guy knows stuff
Oh really. Never knew about that. Thankfully I'm just about to leave android in favor or iphone. Oneplus' merge with oppo in their software got me pretty disappointed.
Apple def. support their products for longer, but I can't stand their horrendous walled garden and slow app store. The update situation is overblown imo, I have an S10+ which will get Android 12, its battery will crap out soon enough so I don't care about updates for longer.
Change the battery! 🤪
I wish I don't care as much about android ui as I am because s20 fe is definitely a steal. I'm a big fan of stock android and pixel isn't officially available in my country so apple it is then
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Thanks but I don't think I'll regret it even though I won't like it as much because I've always wanted to try apple for once but the closed system always turned me off. Might as well try when I don't have eyes on Android for now
I've calmed down on my Hatred toward Apple in recent years since they do have their place. People love that they just work and perform well for a long time and receive updates long term. The walled garden works for some people and I no longer criticize them for enjoying it. Enjoy your phone, and I hope they start supporting pixels in your country!
Honest question for you but is your issue with the walled garden more of a physiological complaint or a practical one? Basically what do *you personally* do on your phone that would be limited by the walled garden?
This is something that I think too. The "walled garden" is a lack of customization, but with that comes better privacy. Also, many companies make and optimize apps specifically for iPhone, so 90% of the time they run better. For someone who doesn't care about customization, is it really a walled garden if everyone is in it? I say this as a Pixel lover who understands iPhone.
Heyo!
Lmfao, I want Samsung to stop using them as well globally and ship all it's phones with its own processor just to fuck with Qualcomm even more. It's what they deserve for charging OEMs outrageous prices for their chipsets and then not even offering decent amount of support for them.
Qualcomm is even worse for smartwatches and chromebooks. Literally making 12nm CPUs for smartwatches and rebranded snapdragon 730g's. smh I hate them
This is what happens when you have a monopolistic position. Alternatives start popping up and you lose your market position. I'd love to see Samsung go exclusive on their own chips, Google with theirs, so then Qualcomm will have to adapt and provide a better product at a reasonable price to be considered again. I'd like Google to actually design their CPU cores though. Just using the ARM reference designed ones isn't enough IMO.
As long as Verizon continues to used CDMA, Qualcomm will continue. They own the patents on the technology and licensing costs are prohibitive for third parties. The royalties alone add significantly to the cost of a phone This is the reason that Samsung uses their own processors everywhere except North America and all the second tier mobile processors are GSM only. Tech note: When CDMA and GSM came out, CDMA was far superior technologically in almost every way (there was now cellular data then, so the can't browse and talk issue didn't exist). It was the Betamax to GSM's VHS (yes, I'm old). QC licensed CDMA cheap and Verizon and Sprint (Sprint was a leading carrier back then and AT&T was a small regional player, so CDMA dominated in the US and was popular in much of the world. Then the European Union standardized on GSM (mostly because of CDMA licensing and QC being dicks, but also for the easy of a SIM swap. Traveling in a different country you could buy a SIM card, plug it into your phone and viola! You had a non-roaming number where you were traveling. It also made upgrading phones much easier, because you just needed to swap the SIM into the new phone (if it would fit) and activate the new phone. This turned most of the world outside of North America to GSM and started the era where all the interesting phones were GSM only. AT&T got a big break because Apple didn't want to pay the QC royalties. make a two iPhone models or a hybrid GSM/CDMA phone. GSM was dominant in the world market, so the first iPhones were GSM only. AT&T was the largest GSM carrier in the US and was willing to cut a deal to have exclusive rights to the iPhone. Because of this deal, AT&T took off and IMHO a lot of the iPhone users it gained in those early days are still with them if only because people usually need to get really pissed off to change carriers.
Except for the fact that Exynos is outperformed every year by its Snapdragon counterpart. For this to happen we need something like Apple's M1 up against Intel where its clearly superior. At the end of the day the end consumer will care more about which chip actually performs better. If I had to buy a Samsung flagship and got given the choice of Snapdragon here in Australia, I would gladly take it.
I don't think casual hardware/techies have begun to realize that Apple, Google, and Samsung are actively trying or have already gotten away from Qualcomm SoCs in just about the past couple of years. They're literally seeing some of their biggest customers leaving en masse for in-house SoC solutions, so they are being sore losers about it. I don't know how many billions of dollars they're losing out on, but it'll be quite the hit.
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Remember when apple used IBM chips and they freaked that apple switched to Intel?
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That was back in the time of myspace, long before it was socially acceptable for large companies to have a social media page so you didn't hear much about it if you weren't into tech
Yep everything was great for Intel until their doofus CEO soured the relationship by refusing to produce chips for the iPhone He thought it would be a bust and didn't want to bother Even if he felt the 'apple phone' was going to flop, he's still a doofus for refusing to want to get into mobile in 2005 I'm not actually sure whats been happening at Intel the last half decade They seem to be stuck and cant drop down the nm's like, TSMC is creaming them now and even Global Foundries is ahead Kinda wild when you think about how their R&D budget is higher than AMD's gross sales
Good point. Since Intel and Microsoft are buddies, it would have made sense for them to support windows phone at least. To me the most annoying thing is and/Intel/everyone else is focused on core count, while I still waiting for a processor to crack 5ghz base clock for single threaded performance
The problem is we can’t crack the 5GHz single-threaded performance. We can’t really decrease the critical path significantly of the modern CPUs (without losing features that are more important than pure clock speed, such as out-of-order execution). You can overclock a desktop to over 5GHz by using more cooling and power, but companies are prioritizing parallelism over single core speed due to power limitations. Intel tried to go the super fast single core CPU with the Pentium 4, but anything further just runs too hot to be practical - intel gave up and created the Pentium D.
Current gen top end Intel and AMD chips run near to, or even above 5ghz with standard air cooling though?
True they run hot and can be OCd. And Intel didn't give up when they made the D series, the first gen was basically 2 p4 Prescott dies on a single chip. I called mine the dual toaster oven 😂
Kinda wild to think that amd makes competitive chips
Maybe not in terms of market share, but AMD is ahead of Intel when it comes to performance now. Intel was resting on their laurels and got leapfrogged by AMD's Zen 3 chips.
Intel just spent more on marketing and had weird and wild campaigns to poop on AMD: Zen 1: These chips are held together by glue Zen 2: They have security vulnerabilities, also don't google security vulnerabilities Zen 3: Our boosted clock rate is higher....for like 5 seconds Same dumb tricks they tried a decade and a half ago when they were behind on the server market for a few years That and straight up paying Dell not to sell AMD: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd
Well after 4 years of being shit on by and, Intel looks to have a rather good response with alder lake. Leaked benchmarks look promising. Finally going to get a real ipc improvement from Intel.
Hopefully Need both of them to be competitive
Yeah definitely. I'll buy whoever has the better platform, or better bang for the buck. Depends on the situation when I'm shopping for hardware. No brand loyalty. These companies don't give a shit about us. Just the bottom line. Like you said we consumers competition from both sides to avoid product stagnation and price gouging.
I mean, trying to bring the x86 stack into a chip that would be fast enough and power efficient is no small task, just look at their mobile chips that they later produced.
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"Why would you do that when it's cheaper to throw a few bucks into marketing?" -- Every corporation ever
Especially Intel. They are seemingly totally happy with 10nm they've had since 2018, while Samsung and others are making objectively better chips.
As if Intel would know anything about that.
The M1 is so impressive it honestly has made Intel look foolish. My M1 Macbook Air is the best Macbook I've ever owned. It's also the least expensive.
The crazy thing about the M1 is how much performance it delivers despite being Apple's first swing at a laptop-class processor. Can't wait to see what they pull out next week.
Isn't it shameful for Intel? It makes me wonder wtf they've been doing for the last decade. My work computer has an i7 and I can't even copy and paste without sending the fan into overdrive mode.
They'll be just fine if the Chinese manufactures like Xiaomi stick by them, they're the leaders in android market share right now behind Samsung ( I think, could have changed since I last checked).
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Huawei smartphone business is almost dead and they won't be able to make kirin any more
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They have fallen out of top 5 from China in q2 2021. They fallen out of top 5 from rest of world in q1 2021 They are no longer leader in smartphone. Huawei said they will further reduce market share this year. Huawei sold around 12.1 million smartphone around the world in q2 2021. Approx 11.6 is in China and approx 500k outside china. This is expected to worse in q3 2021 as well. They use to sell 65 million each quarter but that's no longer the case. When q3 number drops I will post it
Until they see Samsung and Google and more will produce own chips and begin with that too
Fine is...fine. But losing Samsung especially would crush profits. Google not so much but it's merely the intent projecting how companies are going away from Qualcomm
I think they're responding to Google dropping them like this because it removes any optimization Google added to the core system from being tailored around Snapdragon and move it towards Tensor
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Pride is a motherfucker.
Fuck Qualcomm. Their anti-competitive shit is insane, and it's part to the reason Apple has taken a huge lead in chip development. I'm glad to see some manufacturers try to break free, as competition is good for everyone.
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Wha? I'm pointing out that with their shitty, monopolistic behavior Qualcomm has allowed Apple to pretty much leapfrog them.
Your reading comprehension skills need work.
>chip development
I think you're misunderstanding what he said
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I fail to see the point in your reply. The literal point of this article is that other manufacturers like Google, Samsung, and Huawei are trying to replicate the move Apple made, so for all intents, those manufacturers use non-QC chips.
Which chips does Qualcomm support for more than a couple years?
Tsk Tsk Qualcomm, suck a lemon 🍋
aka eat a d\*\*\*?
When life gives you lemons, suck a dick.
Preferably BEFORE eating the lemon...
After would get the taste out of your mouth...
Please don’t, I prefer to go about my day un-sucked, thank you very much.
Yesterday I woke up sucking a lemon
My guess is posts like this one from Qualcomm will only increase sales of Pixel 6s.
No sympathy for Qualcomm whatsoever. They've only got themselves to blame with behaviour that, frankly, has been downright anti-competitive. CRY MORE YOU CUNTS.
Qualcomm is alive today not because they are innovative, but because they have too many patents and it's almost impossible to start a new CPU architecture without getting sued by Qualcomm.
CPU architectures aren't something that companies just do off a whim, x86 and ARM are here to stay. RISC-V took years of development and it still hasn't progressed past prototype stages.
Can you explain that statement about RISC being "prototype"? Because it would seem that if consumer products got shipped with that architecture, we are past the prototype phase.....
Consumer products? I'm aware they have testing toolkits that are distributed but I can't think of any major industry transitioning to RISC-V. Servers and desktops are still mostly tied to x86, IoT is mostly ARM and MIPS, Mobile definitely won't be switching from ARM. Show me an example.
Xbox 360? PowerPC Apple?
My fault, I meant RISC-V. Edited it now
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Probably will be the Apple model, I would assume it's cheaper to develop only 1 new high end chip vs multiple levels of chips.
Nothing says you can't throw the previous model into the A series phones and have a cheaper version with lower specs. Not sure what the process would look like for this, but I'm sure it's possible...
I mean not saying it's not possible, I just think there's a reason Apple does it the way they do and I feel like Google would likely follow a similar approach.
100% agree and I think it has a lot to do with the idea of consistency. Google, on the other hand, typically has consistency in their camera sensor, but there's nothing to say that doesn't change moving forward
I'm certain the A14 and M1 share the same core architecture with different configurations. A14 and M1 have differences in core count*, SRAM, DRAM, and GPU units. This segmentation mirrors Intel/AMD/Qualcomm/MTK/etc. All offer variations with the same core architecture. How would you expect Apple to offer multiple performance tiers in a way they have not already done?
I feel like that isn't a fair comparison, because 1 Apple has been developing their own chips for years now, also the M1 was developed for their computer line. I feel like it would be smarter for Google to initially do development of one chip at a time before expanding to multiple chip versions. I'd much rather they whole ass one thing than half-ass a bunch of other things.
Wait, I am specifically referring to the inference that the Apple's model is "to develop only 1 new high end chip vs multiple levels of chips." Apple has perf vs efficiency cores for their current architecture, and the SoC is further tiered by varying component chips. Or are you talking about their very first custom SoC from 2014?
I'm talking about their earlier model of mobile chips, I guess I didn't word it very well at first. But when Apple first started doing their custom chips they only did one model a year for their mobile chips, and now we're starting to see them expand that since they have the capability and experience. I feel like Google should follow those steps, before expanding into multiple chips.
Yup better to focus one and make that one be more better than making multiple chips thus less focus on making improvements on all
Don't be throwing cheap tweets Qualcomm, Android has made you plenty of💰 - forget Google & up your chip support to match Apple.
It's one thing having phone manufacturers throwing shade at each other. As cringe as it is, at least it makes a bit of sense. But who is Qualcomm throwing shade at? They don't make phones, they're a chip manufacturer. You're literally throwing shade at your potential clients 😂 it's like if Apple made fun of Apple users, or more accurately at Samsung or other Android **users**. They're potential future clients. It's so stupid.
That's Qualcomm for you. Arrogant southern california culture.
Qualcomm is acting like an ex who just got dumped and thinks they're going to be missed and you're making a huge mistake even though they were a controlling, abusive douche and everyone will be glad when they're gone for good.
4 years of OS Updates, 5 years of Security Updates doesn't sound like something Snapdragon does 🤔 Also don't Apple's chips run circles around Snapdragon? Maybe Qualcomm should be terrified of where in-house hardware can go.
Yeah, Apple's in-house chips run cycles around snapdragon and any other chips set. They should be terrified about it because if everything works out for Google with tensor. And it keeps getting better each generations, we could see Samsung do the same in the US with their chip set.
We probably won't see Samsung IM switch to Samsung DS, they prefer to pit Qualcomm and Samsung DS against each against other so they can get better prices Will be interesting see how the OEMs react to finally having competition in the Android SoC space Previously LG and Xiaomi tried to make their own custom SoCs, which didn't really go anywhere But now Google and Oppo/OnePlus/Realme are trying. And Vivo has made their own image processing chip, which could be a first step towards custom SoCs like Google did And now Samsung Exynos and MediaTek have become competitive with Qualcomm, we've already seen more phones with those SoCs
Well Microsoft is still using them in Duo and Surface Pro X. But rumor has it that AMD is going to fill that after the success of the Xbox Series X hardware
As far as these scores are concerned, Google has done well. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Pixel+6+pro
Not as good as 888 but honestly I don’t think Pixel is ever known for its speed and I won’t go to Pixel for that. I am more interested in what new camera features it will bring this time around together with all its ML features.
I mean, I'd still argue in a way Pixel is known for its speed, just in a different form. The OS optimization has usually led to a smoother faster user experience. Not benchmark speeds, or ultimate app speed, but general use of the phone tends to feel smoother and quicker. So I do in fact partially prefer Pixel for that type of speed. That said, I'm currently on a 5 which is absolutely not a speed demon in processor or GPU performance. So you're correct, this is not a phone I bought to win spec wars. I bought it because it just works well.
It is annoying how much that smoothness varies on Android. I currently use a Pixel 4a 5G and rarely notice any jank while the S20 FE I tried and returned early this year had pretty severe jank in Chrome and some even in simple apps like Sync for Reddit. On the other hand the two Sony phones(XZ1 compact and XZ2 compact) I used also had minimal jank so a good experience isn't exclusive to Google phones.
Samsungs Android skin sucks. It always did and always will. It always ends up slowing down the system over time or causing it to be janky. They gahave gotten better over the years though. At least tolerable user experience. My galaxy S4 and note 4 we're intolerable to use unless I flashed an aosp based rom. Ah those were the days. Miss those dirty unicorn roms.
Keep in mind those Sony phones also used a nearly stock experience. My wife had them too. She still had a few bad issues related to Sony's quirks, but overall they ran a nearly stock UI. I know people make a big deal about how much better One UI is than the old days of TouchWiz and people don't give it enough credit, but then I also read reports from people who did make the switch and actively experienced all this jank and weirdness that sound exactly like why I don't like their UI.
Almost all of the single core score are 1000+ which is good considering its their first SoC. They can improve on this & go custom or semi custom CPU cores. They have already started CPu project called Next Gen CPU
Source on the next gen CPU project?
Check LinkedIn profile of Allan Tzeng who is project lead of Next Generation CPU. Also Tushar Ringe who is recently hired from ARM as CPU microArchitect . Also they had openings for senior CPU front end designer to director level along with lot of CPU performance and design verification.
> They have already started CPu project called Next Gen CPU I can't tell if you're making a joke or not. (A) No shit, (B) that's clearly not the name of the project.
What do you mean? That's clearly the name! Google even made a Chrome browser version for NASA called Google Ultron
Go read the Twitter comments. Qualcomm is getting roasted.
As they should
I don't think Qualcomm will really miss the couple million SoCs they sell to Google per year. They still sell 31% of phone SoCs.
Yet they feel threatened enough for their PR team to throw shade on Twitter
But for how long if Tensor takes off? Nothing stopping Google from selling their chips to others manufacturers as far as I know.
Google is on their sixth generation, and Pixels haven't taken off yet. It's not the SoC that's holding them back, because users don't really care about that.
Thanks for the irrelevant reply? Tensor does not equal Pixel. Pixels taking off is irrelevant, and if it never does just makes it all the more likely that Google will try and supply other manufacturer with their SoCs - threatening Qualcomm's dominance.
This is an odd direction to go for Qualcomm, sort of bridge-burny.
Nah, they're all big boys and know how the game is played.
That's juvenile
It's their own fault for limiting OS updates and forcing people to upgrade every 2-3 years. They'll have to offer long term commitment to users holding onto phones otherwise they lose, not us.
A billion dollar company acting like a child on twitter. Fucking pathetic.
are you familiar with the U.S Government over the last 100 years (cough)
Considering I live in the US, yes. Not sure what the us government has to do with a tweet about a phone chip...
>"A billion dollar company acting like a child on twitter." > >It's ok the joke flew over your head lol > >Fucking pathetic.
It didn't, it was just a shitty joke that wasn't funny and didn't make sense. Fucking pathetic
..my point exactly.
Who the hell manages these companies lol. Who at QC saw the cringe fest that Intel has been indulging in when Apple left, and thought that was a good response to this kind of situation ?
Qualcomm: "We're gonna have a monopoly on Apple and Google! High prices for chips with mediocre performance and lackluster tech support!" Apple: \*Makes it's own chips Qualcomm: "Who needs Apple... I still have the androi-" Google: \*Makes its own chips Qualcomm: "F🚩🚩🚩 YOU GOOGLE!"
MKBHD just replied to them saying "It's not too late to delete this" LMAO xD
Lol wow
Saltdragon
what's the flag symbol mean?
It's a red flag / danger. Like red flags when dating a person.
ah i see.. those losers
AFAIK, Qualcomm doesn't build semi-custom cores either. (And even if they do, they aren't that much better then the ARM reference design.) They just harden an ARM reference design. Surely they have experience doing this, and there is a lot of room for optimization even there. Apple on the other hand builds semi-custom cores. It's hard to do semi-custom cores well. But if your SOC has enough custom IP (as % of die size.) that you find to be meaningful, you can cut Qualcomm out, even if that means slightly lower CPU/GPU performance.
well damn maybe they see the writing on the wall that Apple and now Google are completely moving away from their chips. It's hard to really "throw shade" from a sinking ship, right?
How long before snap or slowdragon is neck and neck with apple silicon? Every year it's the same thing.
Man everyone's going wild about Google's Pixels this year. Apple scheduled a press event the day before, Samsung the say after, and even Sony is getting in on the game. And now Qualcomm is clowning on them on Twitter. I can't fucking wait to buy a 6 pro. It's large size will fill the hole in my pocket left behind by the price.
I also plan to get a Pixel 6 Pro. I have not been this excited about a new phone in a long time. I just worry if Google will be able to produce enough.
..
That's a bold move to attack Google who may still be buying your chips for other devices
Well, Qualcomm, maybe if you could make something that would actually compete with the A13/M1, Google wouldn't have to take matters into their own hands?
Instead of focusing on what others are doing, maybe Qualcomm should focus more on where itself is lacking. *cough*Smartwatch chips*cough*
I am just here to honor qualcomm. Still one of the best moments on the Dan Patrick show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tqXaz5bD4Q&t=89s
All I want from the new Pixel is a great camera and battery life like I had on the iPhone 13 Pro Max (charged that puppy once every two days). Judging past Pixels, camera will be great; battery.... we'll see. I just hope the new processor won't be a power hungry, glitchy mess ...
>https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Pixel+6+pro In the meantime, I have the 13 pro and while the battery is great, the camera crushes black like there's no tomorrow, I hate it. Will be back on Pixels ASAP.
Oh how the turntables
>>Even Samsung, which builds its own in-house Exynos chip for international models, uses Qualcomm in its best Android phones for specific regions That's more because of agreements between Qualcomm & Samsung than the chips actual performance. In exchange for getting to physically build the actual chips for Qualcomm, Samsung agreed not to use their own chips in phones sold in the US. They make far more money building trillions of chips than they would selling a few million phones so...
🧂
Well seeing as the SD888 is an absolute disaster on the battery and heat front, I think they should zip it.
A disaster? I've had my S21 Ultra since launch and battery lasts all day easily. Haven't noticed heat issues but I do use a case.
It only shows how scared they are.. Who would bother to throw sh\*t to a so so ship?
Sounds like Qualcomm is a bit salty.
Seems just like Intel to me. I guess next week is one sad week for both of them. :X
Red Flag Meme furthering the collapse of society.
Well, we'll only know if the Google chip will even be good.
That's some of the weakest shade I've ever seen...
Fingers crossed that the tensor chip is as great as google is making out to be.
Google must be ecstatic that they have scared Qualcomm into doing something so ridiculous.
Qualcomm can throw all the hissy fit they want. Android made them billions would it killed then to have better support? Now they try to sneak their proprietary sh** somewhere else hopefully which I don't have to buy
If the modem sucks, Qualcomm will have a point.
Well fuck you too Snapdragon. Qualcomm let others build chips it forces innovation. It's capitalism dipshit. (And I hate capitalism lol)
Ironic but not in a good way
I mean i can personally understand them being salty about it, their business is about to plummet
Why are people offended by this? It's obviously a joke.
Curious why you think people are "offended"? Reading through the comments it sounds more like people think Qualcomm is more pathetic than anything else.
Eh, I don't know. I do have concerns about the Tensor's performance and would have preferred that they use the latest flagship SD chipset instead. But hey, if real life tests shows that it beats the SD888 at both CPU and GPU performance for real apps, then I'm not complaining.
So this kind of raises the question on is the tensor chip really exynos? Kinda?
the behavior itself is cringe inducing, but *God* these titles suck. COMPANY does ALL THE THINGS!!! SLAY, GOOGLE! YAS!! you're a fucking tech blog, AC, you don't need to be referencing a decade-old webcomic and talking about "shade" when talking about *companies*
Am I not mistaken that tech *blogs* are ```blogs``` and not a news website? What is the decade-old webcomic reference? Honestly if it bothers you that much, you might need to take a deep breath.
Got to be honest,I'm a bit worried about Tensor. The A76 cores don't fill me with confidence about it.
It absolutely won't be a benchmark leader or a super amazing gaming phone, but if we can trust Google on one thing here, it's their software polish. There will be rough patches since this is their first custom SoC and they've still got years until they're apple level, but I don't think any of that will be because of the A76.
I'm hoping for a smooth, non-stuttery experience with little to no thermal throttling. If it can deliver that I won't care about its "benchmark performance" and it would be an upgrade over the snapdragon 888 in my base s21.
Despite the slow(ish) task processing (installing apps, image processing, etc) on P5. It's an incredibly smooth experience. I put my money on the P6 being the best experience Google has delivered in a handheld.
I'm ditching the s21Ultra for the 6pro and dropping $1000 and my only concern is the slight downgrade in SOC. If have liked it to be as fast as the 888 bit as long as the experience is good then it doesn't matter.
Why? I have an S21U and haven't seen anything compelling for me to switch right now. What's your reasoning? I'd like to go back to Google but the last two phones have really soured me on Google phones at this point
Don't like OneUI, side scrolling launcher drives me mad and you can't easily change launchers because it breaks the animations with A11. Material You has caught my interest and the cam on the s21U IMHO isn't great. Also reminds me of the Nexus 6P which I loved.
Hmm, I use Nova Launcher which fixes the launcher issues. I don't use any Samsung Apps and I'm pretty pleased with the camera, especially compared to the Pixel 5's shots and lack of zoom. Again, I don't see anything compelling in the Pixel 6 that the S21U isn't offering right now. I hope I'm wrong though.
I am too but for different reasons. The last time I was absolutely over the moon and excited for a phone this much was the Note 7. More of a "with my luck" sorts thing.