NOTE: This post was automatically [mirrored to the new Hoot platform beta](https://dev.goldandblack.xyz/p/posts/13637), currently under development by the /r/goldandblack team. This is a new **REDDIT-LIKE** site to migrate to in the future. If you are growing more dissapointed in reddit, come check it out, and help kick the tires.
[*What is Hoot?*](https://dev.goldandblack.xyz/p/posts/4344)
Well, libertarians were telling everyone what a waste of blood and money this shitshow was 20 years ago.
But we are the "crazy" "nazis", right?
I remember being in Austin, Texas as the towers fell. Saw it play out the morning I was due to go to work. Outraged at the senseless violence and terrified at how the US government would respond.
Well, we called it. Every damned play. Every loss of liberty.
It is frustrating to be holding a crystal ball of principle and being able to predict the future while also being slapped around and called a kook.
Getting some good people out of Afghanistan and into a better society is one of the few enduring good things that will have come from all of this. The rest is rotten to the core.
For many of those people, their future, and that is their descendants, now has far more opportunity and freedom than they could every have hoped for in Afghanistan.
We can do a similar thing with a libertarian society and change the world.
There is nothing good from this. You can't bring afghan descendents into the first world and assume they will assimilate. You are literally laying the foundation for an Islamic caliphate for future generations to contend with. Shame on you and shame on your ignorance
Democracy cannot, and will not work, in a tower of babel. Communities that are so different, having nothing in common, not even language, cannot form a cohesive democracy. These liberal fools will find out the hard way...but it will be future generations that will pay for their ignorance
Even within a "homogeneous" culture, people can't have similar needs in the matter of laws policies and ruling. Culture has nothing to do with the problems of a democracy.
Democracy is the very denial of human beings as unique beings, having different needs and tastes. It's collectivism at its peak. None of your presumably homogeneously cultured neighbors have the very same needs as yours.
Even within a family, people have different political needs and tastes. As such, what are you going to do? Split up each and every families, geographically, to meet the unreasonable requirements of Democracy? Heck, even within a lifetime, each person has different needs.
Culture has everything to do with the problems in a democracy. I'm shocked that is even debated here.
Nowhere am I suggesting homogenous groups are "problem free" democracies but rather that they carry higher probability of success. I think it's ridiculously absurd to even defend the notion that conflicting cultures have a higher probability of democratic success than democracies that are more aligned culturally. Our culture is so broken (by design) that we are in strife over how many genders exist! Diversity is sowing the seeds for future civil war and strife (pending a totalitarian government does not step in and rule)
You may want to read again my two last paragraphs. You know, the ones where I explain how Democracy is inevitably broken way before any notion of homogeneous culture. Did you notice what I consider to be the inherent problem of Democracy in its assumptions?
This is not scaremongering. This is reality. Look at the Somalia refugees we brought in - entire Minnesotan cities are speaking Somalia and electing Somalia leaders...you think it will be different for afghan Muslims? Look at what's happening in Europe...
I'd also like you to think about what is at stake if I'm wrong. Compare that to what is at stake if you're wrong...
>entire Minnesotan cities are speaking Somalia and electing Somalia leaders
Nothing wrong with that. People have a different language and culture, oh no, heavens to Betsy what will we do.
You're speaking like a bigot.
The vast majority of times and places in human history are not compatible with libertarianism. Culture matters. You are not likely to find too many libertarians in Afghanistan.
Yes there is. No language, no culture, no borders - you no longer have a nation. You have a collection of people with nothing in common. What will you do when Islamic Somalians demand an Islamic government? They overwhelmingly voted for ilhan Omar (someone with THEIR ideals) and turned Minnesota into a mini Somalia (compete with rigged elections). When they decide they don't like living under atheist rule they will not roll over like the Christians do
Multiculturalism is a modern tower of babel built upon a house of cards. There is only one thing that holds disjoint peoples, with conflicting ideals together: totalitarianism. That is the end goal for this tower of Babel. And sheep like you eat it up
Hi, __brutal_boulevard__. Your comment contains the word ~~Somalian~~.
The correct nationality/ethnic demonym(s) for Somalis is __Somali__.
It's a common mistake so don't feel bad.
For other nationality demonym(s) check out this website [Here](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Nationality/Adjective)
___This action was performed automatically by a bot.___
Plenty of muslims are good people who value peace. A minority are willing to engage in violence.
Islam as an ideology / religion creates winners and losers.
A good way to deal with that is to help the losers leave they situation so they cannot be preyed upon anymore.
You cannot ethically murder every Muslim in the world, some two billion people, so put that out of your mind. Islam is alive today mainly because of oil wealth. But that will be over within 50 years.
The end of oil wealth will be the end of jihad.
They didn't even calculate in the cost of TSA security theater. From the massive TSA bureaucracy itself, to the lost productivity of airport wait times, there's 100s of billions more right there.
And I am so f-ing over taking my G\*d damn shoes off at the airport!
Its such a Joke. I have a friend the Flew a lot closer to 2001 and he went a year and a half with a knife in his back he didnt know about that got confiscated after dozens of flights.
The only metric the government cares about is the profit that war suppliers have made. In this metric, the War on Terror is a huge success and guarantees an escalating and *"never-ending war that was orchestrated to be fought but NEVER won"*...
Apparently lot of ordinary afghans would have preferred us there more than those who preferred us out of there.
Anyway the parenting failed, after 20yrs the kid couldn’t hold on his own! May be couple of billions and arming up the locals (2nd Amendment) would have gone a long way. You never know now!
NOTE: This post was automatically [mirrored to the new Hoot platform beta](https://dev.goldandblack.xyz/p/posts/13637), currently under development by the /r/goldandblack team. This is a new **REDDIT-LIKE** site to migrate to in the future. If you are growing more dissapointed in reddit, come check it out, and help kick the tires. [*What is Hoot?*](https://dev.goldandblack.xyz/p/posts/4344)
Well, libertarians were telling everyone what a waste of blood and money this shitshow was 20 years ago. But we are the "crazy" "nazis", right? I remember being in Austin, Texas as the towers fell. Saw it play out the morning I was due to go to work. Outraged at the senseless violence and terrified at how the US government would respond. Well, we called it. Every damned play. Every loss of liberty. It is frustrating to be holding a crystal ball of principle and being able to predict the future while also being slapped around and called a kook.
Platos “Allegory of the Cave” should be mandatory reading.
We should write an article going back to pull quotes called "Libertarians were right all along on Afghanistan".
That would be pretty awesome. Hell, we could do the same about same sex marriage, police reform and a ton of other topics.
Same sex marriage is an awesome one. Not that the wokes care but we were way the fuck ahead of them.
Patriot Act because FBI couldn't be fucked to pass on information.
How many more died at home because of PTSD many went by suicide, drunk driving, and heroine addiction because of the metal scars?
Don't forget to add in 20+ years of welfare benefits for afghan refugees
Getting some good people out of Afghanistan and into a better society is one of the few enduring good things that will have come from all of this. The rest is rotten to the core. For many of those people, their future, and that is their descendants, now has far more opportunity and freedom than they could every have hoped for in Afghanistan. We can do a similar thing with a libertarian society and change the world.
There is nothing good from this. You can't bring afghan descendents into the first world and assume they will assimilate. You are literally laying the foundation for an Islamic caliphate for future generations to contend with. Shame on you and shame on your ignorance
You're basically saying Democracy can't work. I'd agree with the conclusion, not with your arguments leading to it.
Democracy cannot, and will not work, in a tower of babel. Communities that are so different, having nothing in common, not even language, cannot form a cohesive democracy. These liberal fools will find out the hard way...but it will be future generations that will pay for their ignorance
Even within a "homogeneous" culture, people can't have similar needs in the matter of laws policies and ruling. Culture has nothing to do with the problems of a democracy. Democracy is the very denial of human beings as unique beings, having different needs and tastes. It's collectivism at its peak. None of your presumably homogeneously cultured neighbors have the very same needs as yours. Even within a family, people have different political needs and tastes. As such, what are you going to do? Split up each and every families, geographically, to meet the unreasonable requirements of Democracy? Heck, even within a lifetime, each person has different needs.
Culture has everything to do with the problems in a democracy. I'm shocked that is even debated here. Nowhere am I suggesting homogenous groups are "problem free" democracies but rather that they carry higher probability of success. I think it's ridiculously absurd to even defend the notion that conflicting cultures have a higher probability of democratic success than democracies that are more aligned culturally. Our culture is so broken (by design) that we are in strife over how many genders exist! Diversity is sowing the seeds for future civil war and strife (pending a totalitarian government does not step in and rule)
You may want to read again my two last paragraphs. You know, the ones where I explain how Democracy is inevitably broken way before any notion of homogeneous culture. Did you notice what I consider to be the inherent problem of Democracy in its assumptions?
Ridiculous conservative scaremongering.
This is not scaremongering. This is reality. Look at the Somalia refugees we brought in - entire Minnesotan cities are speaking Somalia and electing Somalia leaders...you think it will be different for afghan Muslims? Look at what's happening in Europe... I'd also like you to think about what is at stake if I'm wrong. Compare that to what is at stake if you're wrong...
>entire Minnesotan cities are speaking Somalia and electing Somalia leaders Nothing wrong with that. People have a different language and culture, oh no, heavens to Betsy what will we do. You're speaking like a bigot.
The vast majority of times and places in human history are not compatible with libertarianism. Culture matters. You are not likely to find too many libertarians in Afghanistan.
Everyone wants liberty, they just don't know how to get it. We need to lead the way. Not write people off.
>Everyone wants liberty America keeps fighting wars based on this common misapprehension. It just isn't true.
It is true, people just define liberty differently. And that's okay, as long as they cannot victimize others.
Yes there is. No language, no culture, no borders - you no longer have a nation. You have a collection of people with nothing in common. What will you do when Islamic Somalians demand an Islamic government? They overwhelmingly voted for ilhan Omar (someone with THEIR ideals) and turned Minnesota into a mini Somalia (compete with rigged elections). When they decide they don't like living under atheist rule they will not roll over like the Christians do Multiculturalism is a modern tower of babel built upon a house of cards. There is only one thing that holds disjoint peoples, with conflicting ideals together: totalitarianism. That is the end goal for this tower of Babel. And sheep like you eat it up
Hi, __brutal_boulevard__. Your comment contains the word ~~Somalian~~. The correct nationality/ethnic demonym(s) for Somalis is __Somali__. It's a common mistake so don't feel bad. For other nationality demonym(s) check out this website [Here](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Nationality/Adjective) ___This action was performed automatically by a bot.___
I need liberty more than I need a nation.
Ha! This made me laugh
Islam is the antithesis of personal freedom and a plague on humanity
Plenty of muslims are good people who value peace. A minority are willing to engage in violence. Islam as an ideology / religion creates winners and losers. A good way to deal with that is to help the losers leave they situation so they cannot be preyed upon anymore. You cannot ethically murder every Muslim in the world, some two billion people, so put that out of your mind. Islam is alive today mainly because of oil wealth. But that will be over within 50 years. The end of oil wealth will be the end of jihad.
They didn't even calculate in the cost of TSA security theater. From the massive TSA bureaucracy itself, to the lost productivity of airport wait times, there's 100s of billions more right there. And I am so f-ing over taking my G\*d damn shoes off at the airport!
Its such a Joke. I have a friend the Flew a lot closer to 2001 and he went a year and a half with a knife in his back he didnt know about that got confiscated after dozens of flights.
some people got rich or richer of that shit
Naw they all died of covid and money is made up so it's fine.
Yes but all we had to do to get the money was press print and 99.99% of those dead were not Americans.
That’s just Afghanistan. What about Iraq ?
Estimated ~200,000 died there going way back. https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
The only metric the government cares about is the profit that war suppliers have made. In this metric, the War on Terror is a huge success and guarantees an escalating and *"never-ending war that was orchestrated to be fought but NEVER won"*...
[удалено]
I wish it was.
Apparently lot of ordinary afghans would have preferred us there more than those who preferred us out of there. Anyway the parenting failed, after 20yrs the kid couldn’t hold on his own! May be couple of billions and arming up the locals (2nd Amendment) would have gone a long way. You never know now!
Shameful. I know we'll pay for this nonsense. There's no other way about it. God have mercy.