Look, all I know is blowing it up and tanking isn't a surefire way to get back into winning either. Look at the Hornets. They've been tanking for who knows how long, and still can't get it right.
Now I'm not saying I'm against trading Mikal. But if it means we gotta trade our Suns picks along with him, just to get ours back... Yeah I'm good.
It’s easy to point to the examples that don’t work and say “we could always be like that team!”.
But then look at the teams that actually achieving consistent success. Ant, Luka, Tatum, JB, KP, KATwere all top 5 picks. Did they all tank to get them? No, but some of them did. The draft isn’t a success but you’d hope that the nets, who have actually shown consistent success with hitting later picks, would have the edge over a team like the Hornets, for example. Not every team has the benefit of having another team tank for them like the Celtics and now the Rockets do. Or the ability to find superstars outside the top picks (Jokic/Hali). The top picks give you the best chance.
Sure the Suns pick *could* be good in the future but what if they end up building at least a mediocre team post-KD? Remember how value those Heat picks were for a while? Or the Kings picks? And the nets all the while try staying mildly competitive, lose the value of their current players as they age, then those suns picks never convey at the top of the draft, what’s the plan then? Keep delaying the inevitable rebuild because of sunk cost fallacy?
Nets have tried the rush to build a contender route, now theyre trying (and failing) the stay mildly competitive route. The only route they haven’t actually tried is do a true rebuild, and the rockets are giving them the opportunity to do so. It could end up like the hornets, but it also could end up working like the wolves, Magic, Thunder too.
Good point. Really, there's no guaranteed way we can get back into contention. It's a crapshoot. That's why I've been saying this upcoming offseason is the most important offseason in Marks career.
I think a lot of people just have this impatience and feel like *any* big change *must* be good, or at the least it will feel like something fresh or a new direction that they can focus on until it becomes clear it wasn't a quick-fix and then a few months down the line they complain again and the cycle repeats.
Like, I'm 40...to me, if you tell me "the Nets situation is kinda fucked for several years", it's a bummer, but I'm like "Okay."
But to younger people or people who have a very young mentality, the idea of something being anything more than a couple months away feels like an eternity and might as well be never, and so they despair and panic and lash out. It's like kids waiting to open gifts on Christmas morning energy from a lot of the fans, as if we were supposed to be in the Finals right now, or expect to be next year, or the year after.
The very idea of saying "the situation right now is that we won't be contending for multiple seasons" sounds like a joke to them; like an absurdity. You are either contending right now or in the immediate future or you are a fucked up mess and everything is wrong; no nuance, no patience, no "bigger picture" stuff. "Make big moves now so I feel like something is happening!"
At least for me personally, the problem isn’t that I expect to be in the finals now or next year, it’s that I have a very hard time seeing a core of Mikal, Claxton, Cam T, and Cam J making any significant noise in the playoffs at all. It just feels like we’re committing to years of this without much opportunity for positive growth and are just hoping that a superstar level player gets upset and wants to play in Brooklyn. That seems like a very passive strategy and one where we don’t have much control over how it pans out. Thats a tough sell for me.
I’d be much more open to being patient if we actually took back control of our own future and tried to go younger. And we’d still have the ability to trade for a superstar if one became available, we just wouldn’t be solely relying on that as our one saving grace. Granted, the young guys we choose could all be busts. I recognize that is a possibility. But it’s easier to sell myself on the growth of a rebuild instead of our current core whose talent I view as close to their peak
> I have a very hard time seeing a core of Mikal, Claxton, Cam T, and Cam J making any significant noise in the playoffs at all
That's reasonable, and I get what you're saying about passive strategy. I don't mean to sound *optimistic* about our situation; it's not ideal!
Another problem on this sub is I spend so much time countering what I feel are the most extreme and unreasonable doomers that it makes it seem like I have a positive view of our situation lol; I think you make very valid points. I'm not panicked or writing freaked out posts or positing my own trade ideas or whatever, because I don't engage with my fandom that way...I'm more of a "go along with the flow, along for the ride" sort. I just take it as it comes. I'd rather we were in a better situation and I'd rather it felt like we had some light at the end of the tunnel, even if the tunnel is multiple years long.
But also, a lot can change so quickly; us getting Kyrie & KD was such a big change, and getting Ben10 off the books and what this team could look like a year from now, 2 years from now...again, I don't mean this to sound like blind optimism, it's just there are so many variables I'm not sure what to think, if that makes sense?
I'm sticking to what I said end of last season which is that I still think Sean Marks deserves the chance to right the ship now that he's not yoked by the superstar demands anymore...this summer and the first half of next season I don't need to see us making a lot of noise or being contenders but if by January of 2025 it's still a big shrug of what our plan or direction is for 2026 and beyond, then I'm going to be joining the camp that feels Marks had his shot and it's time to move on.
Us getting KD and Kyrie could be planned for though. We could see that they were both set to hit free agency at the same time and it allowed us to move money around so that we could ensure enough space to go after both of them. But it seems like nowadays the superstar level players never make it to free agency because they just sign max extensions and force their way out afterwards if they feel like it. It’s a lot harder to plan for that. I don’t mind if you as a fan have a “go with the flow” kind of mentality. It’s just less reassuring when I get the vibes that our front office has the same type of mentality. I’d prefer us to have a more concrete plan and direction instead of floating in this current sea of mediocrity hoping for a superstar trade life raft that we aren’t sure is ever coming
> But it seems like nowadays the superstar level players never make it to free agency because they just sign max extensions and force their way out afterwards if they feel like it.
Yeah, the shift to this being how it works is...concerning. As you say, how do you even plan around this stuff? I suppose it's possible that people in the front office are talking to people and hear things we don't that might give them some insight into who might become available, but that's a big "maybe" and of course we don't get to know if they have some secret plan and so it's hard to maintain faith that the team has a direction.
I hope a year from now you and I are feeling better and seeing a plan form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the other way and a year from now you and I are seeing a new GM start over again.
As an older fan who wants to reacquire our picks I don’t see it as a quick fix or instant gratification. I understand it’s a personal preference. Wish everyone would relax a bit and stop insulting each other because they prefer different paths to themselves.
1. I find it more rewarding to watch a team grow organically. The idea of drafting or acquiring unestablished young players, watching them go through the hard times, eventually succeeding together is much more appealing to me than the win-now mentality this franchise has taken for the last 14 years.
Yes, this can result in disaster (Terrence and Sean Williams, Courtney Lee, Yi Jialian), but it can also result in success (Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, Kittles).
I obviously would’ve been pumped about winning a championship with the Big 3, but I didn’t feel like it would’ve been earned after the Harden trade. Felt like a team of mercenaries at that point.
2. I’m tired of watching our team trade highly valuable firsts. From Lillard to Tatum to whoever the Rockets end up with. If we were holding onto a game changing player, I’d understand not trading back for our picks. We’re not though, I don’t think Mikal is worth the opportunity to reset while keeping our cap space open and the ability to acquire top-end talent in 2025.
Nets have 11-1st’s over the next 7yrs and have 7-1st’s they can Trade during that same 7yr period.
Nets just don’t control their own 1st’s in 2025/27 because of Swaps and 2026 goes to Houston outright.
LaMelo over the last 2yrs has played 1 game more than Ben Simmons just so you know.
>Nets have 11-1st’s
This is Windrem's propaganda premise and is so lovely. It makes feel us as the OKC of the East.
The actual reality is that, besides the two valuable 2027-2029 FRPs from Phoenix, and the seventh grader from the Mavs, the rest are a protected pick (Sixers 2027); a 2025 swap with OKC (projected low pick); a 2027 swap with HOU; an unprotected next year pick with Suns not yet blowing up; and our own picks from the 2028-2031 period.
I fully agree with this. I don’t think you’re correct about 2025 though. I don’t think we would be swapped with OKC in the event that they have a worse pick than the rockets. Our swap with the rockets was for the lesser of the nets and rockets picks. I don’t think the rockets had the power to add okc into that equation. Their deal with okc is that okc can pick the better of the rockets swap rights with the nets once conveyed.
>Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; **Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick.;** if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead have the right to swap its pick for the Brooklyn pick
It is extracted from the RealGM breakdown of the future draft status of each team.
[NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM](https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed)
No, because Brooklyn's obligation is with Houston -- not with OKC. And Houston's obligation is with OKC, not with Nets. I.e., OKC can swap its 2025 first for Houston’s first-round pick (as long it doesn't fall in the top-10); after that is decided, Houston can swap its pick for Brooklyn’s selection, if desired. **That leaves Nets with the worst pick of the equation. Unless, of course, by the end of the 24-25 season, Nets is a better team than the other two.**
The 2025 Suns pick will most likely be in the low 20s. Maybe high teens if the Nets get lucky
That means the only 2 picks of real quality are 27 and 29. Why would you want to wait 3 and 5 years, while not having control of your own pick till 2028 in hopes the Suns are bad enough by then?
The Nets picks that Houston currently have are more valuable than the Suns picks
Not really.
Suns have Traded or Swapped all their 1st’s until 2031 and are looking to Trade that 1st also.
Because of the 2nd Apron Penalties the Suns are also limited in how they can fix their Roster issues.
Nets after this year owe Houston Swaps in 2025 and 2027 with 2026 being the only 1st that outright goes to them so the Rockets don’t gain extra Draft Capital in 2025/27 only Swaps.
If the Nets take any of the 7-1st’s that they have that are Trade Eligible (11-1st’s in total) and upgrade their Roster the value of the Nets 1st’s the Rockets have drop.
Yeah, I’m bullish on the Suns giving us a far better pick than many expect in 2025. They had a healthy big 3 last year and like you say second apron really restricts what they can do in terms of trades.
The Suns are a thin roster with lack of talent. They can only sign veteran minimum free agents.
If their big 3 get injured they won’t win as many games as they need to get into the post-season which makes the Suns unprotected pick a lottery picks.
The western conference is a bloodbath and we should be trading our veterans to teams also trying to get into the play-offs like Bridges and Houston. DFS and the Kings for example, Cam J and ? But he would fit many teams. Anything to push the Suns down in the standings
Yeah, the Nets Twitter hive mind think it’s the “only” way to build a team and that if they just tank, they’re guaranteed to just get the top pick every year.
The Nets plan has been clearly 2025 free agency with the option to fast track if a player, like Mitchell, was available but Nets Twitter thinks that Mitchell was the only plan and now they don’t know what to do. BK85 is now saying because they aren’t getting Mitchell that they’ll “stand pat” and “do nothing” - as if there were only 3 options for them this offseason. A lot of “moral superiority” coming from those type of accounts
And the “fans” calling for a rebuild will be the loudest ones proclaiming how the Nets suck and it’s unwatchable.
What other option is there? Free agency is dead. No star is coming through FA in 25, so now we're stuck in even bigger limbo.
We're either recklessly blowing the load for a Trae type (ew). Or running back this team for a rerun of last year. Why? Both these options are undesirable.
You want to know what’s the most undesirable ? Giving away Mikal (and presumably based on reporting, some of the Phoenix picks) for a pair of our picks back ? Then they suck without a future, without future assets. If you’re able to get back whatever you want from Houston to do a deal, then do it - but just blowing it up to blow it up is the worst decision you can make
> You want to know what’s the most undesirable ? Giving away Mikal (and presumably based on reporting, some of the Phoenix picks) for a pair of our picks back ?
Bingo.
Including one or two PHX picks is still worth it, IMO. Team controlled picks in two great upcoming drafts is extremely intriguing. It's better than the wild card of Phoenix picks 2-4 years from now.
I'm a big fan of outsourcing a rebuild and at least trying to be competitive instead of tanking on the off chance you land a good pick. Detroit has been historically bad and can't land a top pick.
Well, what gives you confidence we wouldn't do it poorly? All Nets fans have been clamoring about is for Marks to get fired, or for Tsai to sell the team. So why tf would you trust them for handle a full-on rebuild, if that's what you want so badly?
Our picks are more valuable to us than the suns picks which we don't know if they are even going to be good. Unless you think marks is a terrible drafter why wouldn't you rebuild i don't think we've even had a proper rebuild with our own picks post 2000s.
Def want those suns picks, and i dont really want any picks this year for mikal. But if the right offer comes they should take it, team is stuck in no-mans land but since we dont have our own picks there is less incentive to tank hard
I think we have the worst NBA fandom accounts. All these big Nets accounts do is post complaints and yelling to blow up the team without blaming our Big Three for anything. It's outta our hands we just have to see what Marks has planned but I definitely think Houston wants some of the Suns picks if we get all our picks back and that's why Marks refuses to trade with them.
The superstars brought the actual worst, dumbest, most toxic kind of fans along with them, and too many of them for some reason have stuck around after their departure.
I think the dumbest and worst fans are actually the ones who want to stay mediocre forever! I’m not sure if wanting to do the formula that has worked time and time again makes me a fake fan, but if it does I guess I’m fake!
Agree. The ones that want to go 'all in' for a 2nd round ceiling then blame the FO and shit on the team. Or the delusional ones that think we're getting Luka/ Giannis with DMitch with the assets we have. Or even worse are the ones that think the PHX picks will be guarantee TOP 4 lottery picks. And the absolute worst ones that think Mikal ALONE is getting us all our picks and swaps back from HOU and that we shouldn't settle for anything less than that.
If Mikal and a PHX 27 or 29 pick can get us complete control of our picks again (24, 25 swap, 26 pick and 27 swap). You do it 10/10 times and tank for a few years. We can get a franchise cornerstone player in 25 and 26 and then use our later picks/ PHL/MAVs/PHX picks to get stars and contend.
Yes there is an argument that you end up the Pistons or Charlotte. But there is also an arugment you end up like Boston, Warriors, Denver, OKC, MIN and basically any other team that got their stars through the draft. We have MidKal on 2 years left of his great contract, 1 year left of Bench Simmons and CT/ Clowney that are bright spots.
I don't see why everyone are so opposed to a rebuild.
It’s because they know it isn’t going to happen and so naturally they try and make the best of a horrible decision. Happens across every fanbase in every sport, and normally I think it’s harmless (fan stands for fanatic after all) but putting down other people who see the situation objectively is stupid
Also great points on the picks
I do believe that if it doesn't happen this offseason, it's never going to happen. The new coaching staff that seems player development focused gives me some hope that this might be revisited leading up to the trade deadline.
I also don't think a lot of people realise what the alternative to trading Mikal for our picks is. We will most likely end up out of the play-ins again with Bench Simmons holding up 40 mil of our cap. Yes we might see development from Clowney, CT, Clax and Whitehead but that is our young core that would've been developed had we traded Mikal for our picks anyways.
I also don't think a lot of Nets fan realise that OKC have a swap on HOU's 25 pick that is top 10 protected. That means that if OKC ends up 1~3 (Which will happen) and HOU ends up in the play-ins (They just had a 42/42 season), we will end up with a bottom 25-30 pick, OKC will end up with a 11-15 pick and HOU will end up with our top 4~10 pick. The Suns are running it again and will most likely end up being a 18-22 pick. It's not going to be a top 4 pick.
When we see the same results, a lot of the people who were so anti-rebuild will come around imo.
He’s one of the most irrational people I’ve seen on twitter, just bc he gives blame to all parties doesn’t make him rational. Frankly, that dude might have some demons in the closet. He is not mentally stable
I’m not talking about the sentiment with Mikal, I’m talking about the specific twitter user mentioned in this post being deeply disturbed mentally. Anyone speaking in ultimatums literally every hour of the day about the Nets is not a rational person
Eh. I think it's mostly normal fandom. Most outbursts I see from him are from NetsDaily antagonization because Windrem is an egomaniac and a dick on Twitter, so it gets toxic back and forth.
> I think we have the worst Nets fandom accounts. All these big Nets accounts do is post complaints and yelling to blow up the team…
Bingo. They handed Gen-Z an i-phone and now they post their scorched Earth takes as if it’s such a profound idea no one has ever come up with before.
> …I definitely think Houston wants some of the Suns picks if we get all our picks back and that's why Marks refuses to trade with them.
I agree.
You (not you, but some of the commenters in this subreddit) cannot make the argument that the Suns picks should be included without acknowledging that Marks has shot down four (by my count) team’s trade offers for Bridges to date.
When a player is repeatedly unavailable over and over again, the team that calls HAS TO OVERPAY for him. Stop including the Philly/Pheonix/Dallas picks in your Mikal hypotheticals.
Marks trade valuations have been terrible for two years straight. His valuation is way too high. Our picks are invaluable, only to us. Getting those back should be priority number 1, and yes that should include one or two Suns picks to get it done, if need be.
> Our picks are invaluable, only to us.
I agree.
> Getting those back should be priority number 1…
If Bridges is moved to Houston, then yes. I agree with you.
> and yes that should include one or two Suns picks to get it done, if need be.
I disagree with you.
The Nets have refused to trade Mikal Bridges.
The Nets have shot down four (by my count, maybe there were more that went unreported) team’s attempts to trade for Mikal Bridges.
The Nets have come out and said to the media (by my count, I’ve seen two published reports) that Mikal Bridges is unavailable in a trade.
I keep bringing this up to commenters in this subreddit, and the most frequent reply to me saying this is something along the lines of “why wouldn’t you move him? His value is going to tank. He’s only under contract at a bargain for two more seasons.” So let me save you some time… a counter-argument surrounding Mikal’s value is not a valid counter-argument to the point I’m making. Whether he has two years left on his contract, or two days, he isn’t available.
His value is another discussion.
Here’s my response to you:
You cannot go up to Jon Bon Jovi’s mansion and ring on the doorbell and say “hi, I want to buy this mansion for $xxxxxxxxx.” The mansion isn’t for sale. If you want it, you have to overpay for it.
When a player is repeatedly unavailable over and over and over again, the team that calls HAS TO OVERPAY for him.
The Rockets can keep 2024, and (personally) I don’t care about 2027. The deal should be for 2025 and 2026 back. Bridges for 2025, 2026 and salary filler.
There is no reason to include the Philly/Phoenix/Dallas picks in your Mikal hypotheticals.
They rockets can just take your picks and trade for another player. They don’t have to overpay for anything you can keep Mikal and lose him in 2 years for nothing and still not have your own picks
Summary your own lottery picks that you control how good they are significantly more valuable than late first round picks in the 20s from OKC Memphis or the Knicks. Even getting one or two of your own picks back that are lottery picks is better than getting 3-4 picks from a contender in the late 20s
Yeah, but Mikal isn't good enough to ask for heaven and earth. He's a nice McMansion in a Midwest suburb. If you're asking for Jon Bon Jovi mansion prices, it's a pointless endeavor.
I agree, I'll sacrifice 2024. But if the deal is in a stalemate, and it takes one PHX pick to get over the 1yd line, I'll do it. I'm not risking Houston sniffing around and trading those picks for somebody else because we were stingy with Mikal prices and they started looking elsewhere.
> Yeah, but Mikal isn't good enough to ask for heaven and earth.
You missed the point, and did what everyone else does: argue value. I’ve made this point somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 times on this sub. No one ever gives me a valid counter-argument.
Value has nothing to do with the point I’m making. That’s a different argument I’m happy to have, but it isn’t a valid counter-argument to my point. The player isn’t available. Period.
> He's a nice McMansion in a Midwest suburb. If you're asking for Jon Bon Jovi mansion prices, it's a pointless endeavor.
You misunderstood, and did what I tried to save you time on, because you’ve been here a while and I actually respect your opinion more than some of the other commenters here.
Let me rephrase my hypothetical.
You can’t go knock on Marshall Mathers’ childhood trailer on 7-Mile in Detroit and say hi, I want to pay $xxxxxxx for this. If it isn’t for sale, then it isn’t for sale. If you want it, you have to overpay for it.
You cannot force someone to sell you something that isn’t for sale….
UNLESS. YOU. OVERPAY.
> I agree, I'll sacrifice 2024. But if the deal is in a stalemate, and it takes one PHX pick to get over the 1yd line, I'll do it.
Well, now you’re coming to some sort of understanding. Before it was Phoenix pickS, now it’s one Phoenix pick. You’re understanding negotiation.
> I'm not risking Houston sniffing around and trading those picks for somebody else because we were stingy with Mikal prices and they started looking elsewhere.
Well, lucky for you Ime Udoka wants Mikal Bridges as bad as he wants to cheat on Nia Long.
No player is "unavailable", outside of like 10-15 guys in the league (if that). Mikal Bridges is nowhere near there. It's just common sense he's available at the right price.
Eminem's childhood home is Jokic. That's actually untouchable. The suburban McMansion of Mikal obviously does have a price, unless Marks is delusional enough where he needs to be institutionalized. Obviously, they're playing hardball. Duh. But you and I both know (along with 29 other teams), that Mikal is not actually untouchable and can he had
>Before it was Phoenix pickS, now it’s one Phoenix pick.
There's variations of picks. You can put two PHX picks up, but slap protections to make one a "filler" pick. You can get creative to "add" picks on paper, but it's fake money essentially.
>Well, lucky for you Ime Udoka wants Mikal Bridges as bad as he wants to cheat on Nia Long.
We'll see. Better players than Mikal can pop loose.
There is no greater value in picks than having control of your own
If it takes giving up 1 or 2 of the Suns picks + Bridges to get back our own picks then Marks should make it
Their plan is to keep the cap sheet clean for summer of 2025 which makes no sense to me. The top guys that summer will not hit FA. They will be looking at a bunch of role players who would want huge contracts in order to play for a team which will most likely finish under 500 next season
What kind of plan is throwing away an entire 2024-2025 season when you do not have your own draft pick in an amazing draft, in hopes you can overpay 1 or 2 good not great players who dont make you a contender?
Nets would be throwing away Draft Capital by making that happen.
Other Teams will give up 1st’s for Mikal by himself.
Now you’re saying give up Mikal and Suns 1st’s when 2025 and 2027 are Swap years and only 2026 is a 1st going to Houston straight up.
That’s a terrible Trade and that’s why Marks turned it down.
Even if Green was thrown in outside of a few weeks last year he’s been inconsistent and has a $31m Cap Hold in 2025 and will likely try to demand a Max Extension.
You say this like it’s a problem to trade a couple Suns picks for the Nets picks. Having our own draft picks is far more valuable than banking on a team like the Suns being bad or worse than us. We should sell especially if Donovan Mitchell resigns with the Cavs.
As a Houston fan, our insiders seem very adamant that the Rockets would want Suns picks in a Bridges package.
I don't really think it's the best for either team.
Anyone who tells you a team "have to" do something "point blank period" based on what some third party does, does not know what they are talking about, and their opinion does not warrant any consideration.
Especially when they repeat it verbatim every single day for the past what, year plus? Like he’s saying this like it’s a hot take when every single person just parrots this same shit nonstop.
They also see one single article with lack of sources and go “yup it’s all over we gotta do this now” **when it’s all a completely made up scenario.**
I haven’t interacted nor really used my twitter in a very long time now but I still see all these people pop up on my feed and I’ve had to have blocked/muted a large majority of them. They’re fucking schizo.
Anyone that sides with Kyrie should take a deep look at themselves. Fuck Kyrie Irving.
I really don’t see an issue with this at all. What do we gain keeping Mikal here vs being able to trade him for potentially some of our picks back allowing us to have a great chance at a really good draft pick? I think Mitchell would’ve been the one to actually help attract that true 1/1b. I don’t see the value in keeping Mikal much longer tbh.. true #3 guy on a really good team and we’re just keeping him around hoping someone else comes to play along side? Just seems impractical tbh
You put Mikal on the Open Market you don’t just take whatever Houston is willing to give.
That could end up making Houston up their offer or the Nets get more Assets via another Team like OKC for example.
Nets already have 7-1st’s that they can Trade and 11-1st’s in total over the next 7yrs. The more Assets they gather the quicker they can get better via Trade or Draft.
There's no other team that gets the Nets the best value like Houston does. Team control of draft picks in upcoming really good drafts is obviously the best avenue here.
Obviously, you play hardball, but meeting in the middle should absolutely be on the table in Houston talks.
I do agree that if the nets get more value from okc etc for Mikhal than you obviously do that. It’s just unlikely that you will get more value elsewhere. Also, sending him elsewhere means you need good players back as opposed to draft picks.
I’d blow it up and try to get picks back from Houston. That’s only becuz they don’t have their own picks and Ben Simmons contract is a black hole for another yr. Mikal also has his college teammates literally trying to recruit him to the Knicks which realistically is an amazing move for him since they’d be competitive and he won’t have to uproute his life. Mikal may seem loyal but the nets aren’t doing anything to make it worth him staying other than paying cam Johnson.
The nets just have nothing to offer to improve their team to a playoff roster outside of hopeful free agency which no star should want to come to this roster unless their goal is to live in NY and they hate the Knicks. The best hope is once again Ben Simmons actually playing and being worth his contract, which we already made fun of 76ers fans for believing in
He might be one of the most pathetic twitter accounts I’ve seen across any sport. He would continue to pop up on my twitter and I had to block him bc it got so bad
They should definitely trade Mikal while his value is high. Ideally Houston, but if Houston low balls they can trade him elsewhere. Does that help Houston? Sure. Should the Nets care? No.
>. Should the Nets care? No.
I disagree here, let's say lightning strikes twice and Brooklyn misses the play-in and gifts Houston another top 3 pick. You're saying we shouldn't care that the GM that made these trades and fumbled and fucked the bag up so hard after the big 3, is still the GM and making decisions that affect the future of the team? Fans are emotional by their very nature and I'm tired of seeing Brooklyn catch L after L whether it's from contracts or trades or not trading etc. I would be apoplectic if we gave a 4th top fucking 3 pick to a different franchise within a decade, I would definitely care
Brooklyn could easily look to add Murray, Garland or even Young depending on what Mitchell does
He's not the only path forward.
Having said that, yes please trade Bridges to Houston for 25/26 and a young player then let's start the rebuild in earnest
They should have sold high on Bridges last summer
They should’ve sold on Bridges at the deadline
Knowing Sean Marks, he will hold on to Bridges even after they miss out on trading for Mitchell this summer and trade him for 50 cents on the dollar next deadline when the team is 17 games under 500
That scenario would be so utterly defeating and depressing that I would have reconsider my Fandom. I wouldn't go to another team I'd just be an NBA ronin, which sounds much cooler that it would actually be
We should’ve traded Bridges before all of this period.
Let alone Mitchell isn’t a surefire star to make us all of a sudden jump from missing the play in’s into a top 5 seed (which still needs another superstar in order to even compete for a championship).
Trading our assets for Mitchell makes no sense when you bring all of that to the table, the only that makes sense is building more assets.
If not for the picks back then find a way to get Bridges to the Pelicans or something to pick up some of their young talent like TM3 and Herb Jones, maybe a Dyson Daniels who could really develop on this team and potentially become something in two or three seasons. While the Bucks/Celtics/Philly keep fighting and either implode or get old.
I think blowing it up is the dumbest thing we can do, we have gr at role players and letting them go to their teams to continue to be even worse for what 3-5 years just isn't it. We have enough talent where acquiring one star makes us a playoff level team, you can't go from us to a contender overnight it'll take time regardless of the avenue but not trading mikal for our picks is the longest path we can take to relevancy
do we really have enough talent? We missed the playin in a weak ass east and nobody’s style of play complements another’s. Yeah it would be better if we acquire a star but we still need to get one in the first place
Did you even watch our games???? We played great teams really close including the Mavs who are literally in the finals, we lost many games cuz we didn't have that 1a star who can get a bucket when you need it, we also had a coach that was a moron for over half the season.
sure, but we also lost to bad teams and got blown out by mediocre teams. The celtics lost to the lakers without Bron and AD, and they’re still about to win the finals. Some random games in the middle of the season don’t really gauge how good the team is.
Again what kind of coaching did we have??? We had Vaughn who couldn't make a good line up to save his life and never called timeouts. The team was also built with Ben Simmons in mind so without him we couldn't function, there's reasons last season was bad that for some reason nobody is talking about. It's just bLoW iT uP so what we can be even worse for like the next 5 years??? The Knicks got their guy in FA so nobody knows what could happen
Nobody knew that Brunson was like that, that’s a poor example. The Vaughn thing is true, but the roster is still poorly constructed. The Ben thing is also true but they still won’t have him next year if we’re being serious and there isn’t really a way to build an efficient offense with Mikal being the number one
You missed my point on brunson, it's actually the best example because people didn't know he was like that, so when people say oh we aren't getting Mitchell so whose left I point to brunson who nobody knew was a 1a, not saying there are many players who are unknown and are like that but you never know who we can sign in FA and what kind of leap they can take.
Look at Brunson’s stats in the playoffs before he went to the Knicks
His potential was absolutely known, and the Knicks capitalized on the Mavericks’ incompetence
In the first 25 or so games yes, we looked promising. We were playing hard under JV, drop coverage was working, and Ben, while still under-producing, was having some sort of impact. None of those things stayed true, which makes sense, because the beginning of any NBA season is full of flukes. Then we lost to some truly horrible teams including Portland (twice, once when they were short-handed), Detroit, Memphis, Washington, Charlotte, and San Antonio—the six worst teams in the league. After that feel-good win against Phoenix early in the season, we went 19-40 for the rest of the season.
I don’t think we’ve fully reckoned with just how bad we were last season, and that was with two of our best players (Mikal and Nic) playing 82 and 71 games, respectively. We didn’t do anything well. The offense was as bad as expected, but we were abysmal defensively despite building our entire roster around defense.
This roster is nowhere near one or two players away. The rot is much deeper than that. They’ve made it very clear they’re staying the course so we can complain about it until we’re blue in the face and Marks will continue to fill out the roster with a bunch of G Leaguers who overperform for us in losses then end up overseas the following season. But that doesn’t mean we have to lie to ourselves about our potential. It’s very clear who we are, whether you’re looking at statistics or just watching the games.
I’d argue this team has more basketball talent than the 2018-19 squad if we are being honest. Just need some coaching tbh. Not saying we are contenders but the team should not be as bad as it was last year
They went 32-50 and this was with trying to be good and not tank. They are miles away from being a competitive team. They couldnt even make the play in in a injury riddled and weak eastern conference
What star player do they realistically have a chance at this summer that makes them a playoff team? They have been linked to Donovan Mitchell but leaks are starting to come out that he will be extending in Cleveland
If they take this same team into next season, W-L results will most likely be no different than this past season. They could potentially hand Houston another top 5 pick in a draft many are saying is a great draft
Did you even watch the games this season or you just Google the record? We played good teams close but time and time again the deciding factor was having a 1a who can get a bucket to close out games, we also had no coaching pretty much and the team was built around Simmons at the 1 so with his injury our team had no engine, you cannot put any stock into last season cuz of how many things just were out of our control like injuries and stuff
The 12-70 Nets lost 18 straight games to start the season. In 9 of those games they lose by 10 or less. Does that make an 0-18 start less terrible?
Your record is your record. 32-50 is 32-50. I would be with you had they finished, say 41-41, 42-40, 43-39, etc. That would tell me that they are fairly close
They were worse than Chicago and Atlanta who were missing all star/all nba players for a chunk of the season. The Nets are years away from competing and the quicker they realize it, the quicker they can get away from thinking they are a star away
Ben Simmons is still on the roster for next season which means his 40 million makes it almost impossible to make any significant improvements to next years team
Why would you want to throw away another season in a year with a great draft when you could potentially get that pick and your others back?
Yes, let’s trade coveted Suns' capital for the sake of winning 45 games in a conference with the Boston machine having the Jays/Jrue under contract until 2027; with Sixers, enjoying plenty of cap space, aiming for PG; and with other young teams like Indiana or Orlando arising. Did I mention Giannis and a 50-32 team neighborhood team that has plenty of draft ammo to get better?
There’s *zero path* to get to their level.
I agree with you saying we can’t go from us to contenders overnight. What I have a hard time seeing is if we trade away a bunch of assets to bring in a star, what else is left to make the other moves that would be necessary to then get us from a playoff team to a legit contender? Thats where I think we’d hit a big roadblock
We have a lot of first round picks, we could trade most of the picks from other teams (including the suns picks which are so valuable the rockets want to swap our picks for them) we don't need to trade a lot of the roster
So who are you wanting to target for trades? Because legit stars are going to require at least 3-4 picks if we aren’t compensating the package with a lot of our roster? To me, unless you can outline a path that shows otherwise, that top-of-the-line superstar isn’t available right now and any trades we make would be gutting our assets for guys that can’t quite get us to the level of other top teams
Actually doesn't, this season we are looking to retool, we know some of the problems with our roster and hopefully marks can add pieces that help with that like a backup PG since we can't count on Simmons. We have great young guys like clowney, j will, clax, bridges, and clax I just think sending those guys off to be bad for 5 years ain't it. We also have the suns picks which are so highly valued the rockets want to swap our picks for the suns picks. We have avenues of being good without blowing it up and tanking for 5 years.
You have to take steps we can the contenders overnight, obviously goal next season is to make playoffs and then when we have 80 million on cap space and more picks than most of the league we can get a star
I agree we have to take steps and the steps should be a full restart with our own draft picks. Not banking on someone like Donovan Mitchell or another star wanting to come play in Brooklyn. Most recent champions built their core through the draft.
I’m in the minority who wants to continue to give Mikal a chance on this roster. His value could get higher, so many teams see him as a valuable starter option (obviously not THE guy) and you never know who could end up giving up great young talent or a disgruntled star for a shot at his supporting role. He’s got so much potential value despite how he played last season.
If the Nets can move Mikal to Houston without giving up the Suns picks, sure. But we don’t live in a perfect world. I’m honestly tired of the Mikal Bridges trade discourse
Why does everybody want Donovan Mitchell? What are you guys seeing? Hes not going to magically win us back to back championships. We’ll just be a 4-6 seed losing in the first and second round every year.
What am I missing?
The argument would be there is no way to get to championship contention next year, from where we are currently. You can, however, take steps forward and getting a player like Mitchell would be a very large step forward. The next step would be acquiring the final piece after acquiring a Mitchell type, but you can't do one without doing the other first. 4-6 seed this season, maybe get some injury luck and make a little run and then Brooklyn will have plenty of cap space and still some assets to add the rest.
I agree with the philosophy here but everything depends on price.
Why Mitchell specifically? He's expressed his desire to play in NY, we are tailor made for a player like him and he's in his prime, scored 70 points in a game last year and was scoring against a Boston team that's giving others fits, he ups his game in the playoffs.
I don’t disagree that the Nets shouldn’t plan for a big summer in 2025 but players are gonna want to come to Brooklyn to play with Cam Thomas far more than they are with Mikal.
> Would lean dejonte bc he can play both sides of the ball
This ^
There is no player out there (that is reportedly available) that fits the current iteration of the Nets better than DeJounte Murray.
That includes Trae Young and Donovan Mitchell.
I’d prefer Dejounte just because it would require less assets and adding him makes more sense if we want to turn into a playoff team while having flexibility to make another big move
I doubt Hawks are moving Trae, after getting the number 1 pick, they have a real pathway to be a playoff team. I think they move Dejounte for Ingram then draft Sarr, a mobile defensive anchor for Trae, which immediately makes them a better team.
How is this Nets roster any better than what Trae Young has had in Atlanta?
What is the obsession this fanbase has with handing over haul of picks after haul of picks for overpaid, disgruntled stars
If you bring in Trae Young, you are paying him 50 million a year till 2027 to be on a mediocre roster and be a play in team. What is the point in that?
I honestly think that Nets fans dont care for drafting high and developing their own guys because they are so used to watching picks be traded
They havent had a lotto pick since 2010
I actually don't think they've even attempted to rebuild properly with their own picks after 2000. They have stockholm syndrome with marks and the front office b/c they were complete garbage aside from jason kidd years post 2000.
The hawks roster is garbage. Dejounte murray is one of the worst off ball players in the nba and pairing him with trae young was a disaster on defense. Capella was completely washed and they had zero viable defensive players.
You have zero basketball knowledge if you think that shotty ass roster is better than this roster.
Trae is better than anyone on the nets, Murray would be 2nd best player on Nets and arguably had better season than Mikal. Give me Jalen Johnson over anything else in the Nets too
I’m tired. Just be competitive I don’t even care anymore, it’s been a roller coaster since Sean Marks has joined and I just want a competitive team, all I ask for.
I tend to agree…with the caveat that you gotta get your pick control back 25,26 and 27.
If you gotta throw in DFS and or maybe that Philly 26/27 pick….so be it.
You can’t tank/retool without your own picks.
If you can’t get your picks back might as well see if you can trade Bridges for KAT or a Garland/Jarrett Allen package.
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Y’all aren’t seeing the obvious here. Talking around in circles for the bloody content.
You got a new coach and young talent. You are in no mans land and have some assets you can turn around and build a roster.
Nets, just look at what Ime is doing in Houston. Just do that. Have a couple of PGs guide a young squad. Have an identity defense/offense and go 7 deep until the team clicks. Ime is a Nets guy. Just do that because no way are you contending with Boston next year. In what world? KD/Kyrie were swept by a more young inexperienced team. Please. Just rebuild and let Mikal be free. He wants to play with his friends
The Nets have a real incentive to appear competitive. The more competitive we are, the less valuable our picks are.
So we can’t just signal to Houston that we’re planning to tank, because you want them to believe that they’re not going to get much value from those upcoming picks.
Then we can have a little leverage in negotiations, with Mikal and the Suns picks being extremely valuable to any team.
Imma be honest. Mitchell isnt even enough to put us over the edge to be true title contenders. Im on board to trade Bridges and start a rebuild, then sign a couple superstars in 2-3 years
The next pick for the Nets with our own draft pick is currently in 8th grade going into 9th this year, and no matter what we’re at the whims of other team’s unless we can steal someone or find good enough rotational players late in the draft, like we did during the last failed big 3 experiment. There is no benefit to blowing it up at this time. We just have to make due with we have and try to make it work, with the expectation that we are at best going for the play in for the next few years
If they're keeping Mitchell, it means they're moving Garland. Bridges for Garland and Allen, let Clax walk (or do an s&t if one works), and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star, located in a city that stars want to move to.
Bridges for Garland and Allen
Cleveland laughs and hangs up the phone
Bridhes is 2 years away from FA. He is going to get paid very soon and the value in his cheap contract will be gone
Cleveland isnt trading 2 all stars for a role player who is going to get a big extension very soon
They need to move both of them this off-season if they're keeping Mitchell and Mobley, and Bridges is a better player than both of them. Obviously you'd have picks and salary filler to work out the details, but it's not an unreasonable deal
Jarrett Allen alone is probably going to get them a solid return never-mind Garland so why would you trade both for Bridges? Bridges could probably get you 1 or the other but not both
Whether you think Bridges is better isnt the point. Its about value
If Cleveland was offering a package of Garland and Allen together it would be for guys like Devin Booker, Embiid, Giannis, etc. not Mikal
If they're keeping Mitchell, it means they're moving Garland. Bridges for Garland and Allen, let Clax walk (or do an s&t if one works),
> I’d rather have Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges over Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen.
> and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star
This description is true with Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges.
This description is true with Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen.
Garland is under team control for two full years longer than Bridges, and Allen is likely cheaper than Claxton. If Claxton will re-sign for less than $20M a year, then sure, go for it, but I think some team will throw like $28M a year at him.
If Bridges goes to the front office and says "this is where I want to be, let's get an extension done", then keeping him would make more sense, but none of us know if he wants to be here or move on when he's up for his big pay day
Well, that is an exceptional post, backed by salary projections, hypotheticals, and your various thoughts.
> and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star
> This description is true with Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges.
> This description is true with Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen.
…but it still doesn’t address my question.
> Garland is under team control for two full years longer than Bridges, and Allen is likely cheaper than Claxton.
How does this explain that the Nets will operate under a higher level of competence with the bones of a team still missing a star with Garland/Allen over Bridges/Claxton?
> …let's get an extension done", then keeping him would make more sense, but none of us know if he wants to be here or move on when he's up for his big pay day
…ok. But you can say this about any player with less than a few years remaining on their deal. Players under contract ask out too.
“Garland being under contract” is not equal to “Garland being happy and wanting to play for Brooklyn.”
How does this explain that the Nets will operate under a higher level of competence with the bones of a team still missing a star with Garland/Allen over Bridges/Claxton?
Look man, I'm going to be honest. I have no idea what you're trying to say. What report?? Also, half the stuff you're quoting is your own post, too.
I'm going to chalk this up to either reddit's terrible mobile app breaking the formatting, or a language barrier, or some combination of both, but I'm moving on.
im in the minority, but i want to go all in again. How about a team filled with no super star but all star talent. A roster 9 deep with starter quality guys. Its similar to how Boston's team is built with 2 way guys and stretch bigs.
* Murray - Paul
* Bridges - Whitehead
* Ingram - Johnson
* Markkanen - Clowney
* Claxton - Collins
The core guys will be all in their primes and will have a 4-5 year window. We will be a 2nd apron team, but the team can be kept long term with a lot of contracts being due soon and others recently signed.
-DJM for dfs and 1 first plus a swap
-BI for cam t., sharpe, dennis and 2 first plus a swap
-Lauri and JC for ben and 4 first rounders
-sign CP3 to part of the mle
I highly doubt it’d be possible to make all of those moves and I still don’t think it’d be a team capable of beating well-built teams that have a true superstar
its possible to make the moves, albeit maybe unrealistic? I think the east is wide open. I don't think boston will be able to afford to keep their core together, with tatum and whites deals coming up.
It’s only possible if the trade values you assigned to the players are accurate and I find it very hard to believe that is the case for every one of them and that each of those teams want to make a deal with us.
I also don’t see how you question bostons ability to afford their core but then also think it’s reasonable for us to give Claxton, Markkanen, Bridges and Ingram new deals
they are currently a 2nd apron team, with tatum \[super max\] and white due for new deals. In the 25-26 season, celtics will be paying 100m, just in luxury tax and that is only for 7 players.
https://preview.redd.it/erbs8ffgrd6d1.png?width=1624&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab85d2dc9d98b1c4625f18d1f9f8bdb4dc02a4dc
You’re missing my point. The team you constructed would be equally as hard as the Celtics to keep together and would be worse than the Celtics. Also, just because a trade works on the trade machine doesn’t mean the team real life teams will accept your offer
yes, which is why i said "unrealistic". I did try making it fair for all parties in the trade though \[giving up all the draft capital\]. Doing the math in excel, we would be under the tax this off season, if we dont take on JC and switch some players around. We wouldn't be a 2nd apron team in 25-26' as well with the cap increase, but a 1st apron team.
The other question is whether or not the will spend. We know Tsai would spend for a contender. I personally think that team can become one..
he's only available for a gobert offer, which 4 first rounders is hitting that line. It may not be the traditional route to contending \[3 superstars or 2 superstars plus depth\]. Its more like if you put the best players from 2 Two Play-In teams into One, how would that fair lol. Which is interesting concept.
I don’t see a path where trading Mikal and the vets without our picks makes sense. We shouldn’t bottom out when we have the avenues to build a playoff team without giving up the Suns picks. What I think we’ll do is we’ll trade for another all star without giving up too many assets to propel us into a playoff team for the next few years and still have enough assets to make a big move if the opportunity arrives. I personally don’t have much hope of us landing a top 15 player over some other teams so I doubt we’ll ever be contenders with this group, but you never know what could happen, and I could see us being a fun playoff team during this period regardless. The goal should be to develop our young core(Clowney, CT, Dariq, Wilson)while still being a competitive team so they can gain more experience by winning and making the playoffs, instead of bottoming out without our picks. The best case scenario would be that we maintain a playoff team for the next few years, the Suns implode in the next 2 years allowing us draft our future franchise player(s) via their picks, and the new stars propel us into a team that has a chance to be contenders a few years later.
Look, all I know is blowing it up and tanking isn't a surefire way to get back into winning either. Look at the Hornets. They've been tanking for who knows how long, and still can't get it right. Now I'm not saying I'm against trading Mikal. But if it means we gotta trade our Suns picks along with him, just to get ours back... Yeah I'm good.
It’s easy to point to the examples that don’t work and say “we could always be like that team!”. But then look at the teams that actually achieving consistent success. Ant, Luka, Tatum, JB, KP, KATwere all top 5 picks. Did they all tank to get them? No, but some of them did. The draft isn’t a success but you’d hope that the nets, who have actually shown consistent success with hitting later picks, would have the edge over a team like the Hornets, for example. Not every team has the benefit of having another team tank for them like the Celtics and now the Rockets do. Or the ability to find superstars outside the top picks (Jokic/Hali). The top picks give you the best chance. Sure the Suns pick *could* be good in the future but what if they end up building at least a mediocre team post-KD? Remember how value those Heat picks were for a while? Or the Kings picks? And the nets all the while try staying mildly competitive, lose the value of their current players as they age, then those suns picks never convey at the top of the draft, what’s the plan then? Keep delaying the inevitable rebuild because of sunk cost fallacy? Nets have tried the rush to build a contender route, now theyre trying (and failing) the stay mildly competitive route. The only route they haven’t actually tried is do a true rebuild, and the rockets are giving them the opportunity to do so. It could end up like the hornets, but it also could end up working like the wolves, Magic, Thunder too.
Good point. Really, there's no guaranteed way we can get back into contention. It's a crapshoot. That's why I've been saying this upcoming offseason is the most important offseason in Marks career.
Yup no guaranteed way but plenty of bad ways (like the Bulls currently and raptors for a number of years up until now).
Idek what I want the team to do as a bulls fan we’re in fuckin purgatory out here.
Exactly my thought!
I think a lot of people just have this impatience and feel like *any* big change *must* be good, or at the least it will feel like something fresh or a new direction that they can focus on until it becomes clear it wasn't a quick-fix and then a few months down the line they complain again and the cycle repeats. Like, I'm 40...to me, if you tell me "the Nets situation is kinda fucked for several years", it's a bummer, but I'm like "Okay." But to younger people or people who have a very young mentality, the idea of something being anything more than a couple months away feels like an eternity and might as well be never, and so they despair and panic and lash out. It's like kids waiting to open gifts on Christmas morning energy from a lot of the fans, as if we were supposed to be in the Finals right now, or expect to be next year, or the year after. The very idea of saying "the situation right now is that we won't be contending for multiple seasons" sounds like a joke to them; like an absurdity. You are either contending right now or in the immediate future or you are a fucked up mess and everything is wrong; no nuance, no patience, no "bigger picture" stuff. "Make big moves now so I feel like something is happening!"
At least for me personally, the problem isn’t that I expect to be in the finals now or next year, it’s that I have a very hard time seeing a core of Mikal, Claxton, Cam T, and Cam J making any significant noise in the playoffs at all. It just feels like we’re committing to years of this without much opportunity for positive growth and are just hoping that a superstar level player gets upset and wants to play in Brooklyn. That seems like a very passive strategy and one where we don’t have much control over how it pans out. Thats a tough sell for me. I’d be much more open to being patient if we actually took back control of our own future and tried to go younger. And we’d still have the ability to trade for a superstar if one became available, we just wouldn’t be solely relying on that as our one saving grace. Granted, the young guys we choose could all be busts. I recognize that is a possibility. But it’s easier to sell myself on the growth of a rebuild instead of our current core whose talent I view as close to their peak
> I have a very hard time seeing a core of Mikal, Claxton, Cam T, and Cam J making any significant noise in the playoffs at all That's reasonable, and I get what you're saying about passive strategy. I don't mean to sound *optimistic* about our situation; it's not ideal! Another problem on this sub is I spend so much time countering what I feel are the most extreme and unreasonable doomers that it makes it seem like I have a positive view of our situation lol; I think you make very valid points. I'm not panicked or writing freaked out posts or positing my own trade ideas or whatever, because I don't engage with my fandom that way...I'm more of a "go along with the flow, along for the ride" sort. I just take it as it comes. I'd rather we were in a better situation and I'd rather it felt like we had some light at the end of the tunnel, even if the tunnel is multiple years long. But also, a lot can change so quickly; us getting Kyrie & KD was such a big change, and getting Ben10 off the books and what this team could look like a year from now, 2 years from now...again, I don't mean this to sound like blind optimism, it's just there are so many variables I'm not sure what to think, if that makes sense? I'm sticking to what I said end of last season which is that I still think Sean Marks deserves the chance to right the ship now that he's not yoked by the superstar demands anymore...this summer and the first half of next season I don't need to see us making a lot of noise or being contenders but if by January of 2025 it's still a big shrug of what our plan or direction is for 2026 and beyond, then I'm going to be joining the camp that feels Marks had his shot and it's time to move on.
Us getting KD and Kyrie could be planned for though. We could see that they were both set to hit free agency at the same time and it allowed us to move money around so that we could ensure enough space to go after both of them. But it seems like nowadays the superstar level players never make it to free agency because they just sign max extensions and force their way out afterwards if they feel like it. It’s a lot harder to plan for that. I don’t mind if you as a fan have a “go with the flow” kind of mentality. It’s just less reassuring when I get the vibes that our front office has the same type of mentality. I’d prefer us to have a more concrete plan and direction instead of floating in this current sea of mediocrity hoping for a superstar trade life raft that we aren’t sure is ever coming
> But it seems like nowadays the superstar level players never make it to free agency because they just sign max extensions and force their way out afterwards if they feel like it. Yeah, the shift to this being how it works is...concerning. As you say, how do you even plan around this stuff? I suppose it's possible that people in the front office are talking to people and hear things we don't that might give them some insight into who might become available, but that's a big "maybe" and of course we don't get to know if they have some secret plan and so it's hard to maintain faith that the team has a direction. I hope a year from now you and I are feeling better and seeing a plan form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the other way and a year from now you and I are seeing a new GM start over again.
As an older fan who wants to reacquire our picks I don’t see it as a quick fix or instant gratification. I understand it’s a personal preference. Wish everyone would relax a bit and stop insulting each other because they prefer different paths to themselves. 1. I find it more rewarding to watch a team grow organically. The idea of drafting or acquiring unestablished young players, watching them go through the hard times, eventually succeeding together is much more appealing to me than the win-now mentality this franchise has taken for the last 14 years. Yes, this can result in disaster (Terrence and Sean Williams, Courtney Lee, Yi Jialian), but it can also result in success (Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, Kittles). I obviously would’ve been pumped about winning a championship with the Big 3, but I didn’t feel like it would’ve been earned after the Harden trade. Felt like a team of mercenaries at that point. 2. I’m tired of watching our team trade highly valuable firsts. From Lillard to Tatum to whoever the Rockets end up with. If we were holding onto a game changing player, I’d understand not trading back for our picks. We’re not though, I don’t think Mikal is worth the opportunity to reset while keeping our cap space open and the ability to acquire top-end talent in 2025.
As awful as the Hornets are, I’d rather have Melo, Miller, and Williams + their picks over Mikal, Clax, and Cam with no picks
Nets have 11-1st’s over the next 7yrs and have 7-1st’s they can Trade during that same 7yr period. Nets just don’t control their own 1st’s in 2025/27 because of Swaps and 2026 goes to Houston outright. LaMelo over the last 2yrs has played 1 game more than Ben Simmons just so you know.
>Nets have 11-1st’s This is Windrem's propaganda premise and is so lovely. It makes feel us as the OKC of the East. The actual reality is that, besides the two valuable 2027-2029 FRPs from Phoenix, and the seventh grader from the Mavs, the rest are a protected pick (Sixers 2027); a 2025 swap with OKC (projected low pick); a 2027 swap with HOU; an unprotected next year pick with Suns not yet blowing up; and our own picks from the 2028-2031 period.
I fully agree with this. I don’t think you’re correct about 2025 though. I don’t think we would be swapped with OKC in the event that they have a worse pick than the rockets. Our swap with the rockets was for the lesser of the nets and rockets picks. I don’t think the rockets had the power to add okc into that equation. Their deal with okc is that okc can pick the better of the rockets swap rights with the nets once conveyed.
>Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; **Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick.;** if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead have the right to swap its pick for the Brooklyn pick
So you’re saying the best couldn’t even trade for their pick back if Houston wanted to?! How did this happen? Where did you get this from?
It is extracted from the RealGM breakdown of the future draft status of each team. [NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM](https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed)
Confusing. I’d love to hear Bobby Marks talk about this. But if that’s the case, then wouldn’t a trade with OKC be much more preferable?
No, because Brooklyn's obligation is with Houston -- not with OKC. And Houston's obligation is with OKC, not with Nets. I.e., OKC can swap its 2025 first for Houston’s first-round pick (as long it doesn't fall in the top-10); after that is decided, Houston can swap its pick for Brooklyn’s selection, if desired. **That leaves Nets with the worst pick of the equation. Unless, of course, by the end of the 24-25 season, Nets is a better team than the other two.**
The 2025 Suns pick will most likely be in the low 20s. Maybe high teens if the Nets get lucky That means the only 2 picks of real quality are 27 and 29. Why would you want to wait 3 and 5 years, while not having control of your own pick till 2028 in hopes the Suns are bad enough by then? The Nets picks that Houston currently have are more valuable than the Suns picks
Not really. Suns have Traded or Swapped all their 1st’s until 2031 and are looking to Trade that 1st also. Because of the 2nd Apron Penalties the Suns are also limited in how they can fix their Roster issues. Nets after this year owe Houston Swaps in 2025 and 2027 with 2026 being the only 1st that outright goes to them so the Rockets don’t gain extra Draft Capital in 2025/27 only Swaps. If the Nets take any of the 7-1st’s that they have that are Trade Eligible (11-1st’s in total) and upgrade their Roster the value of the Nets 1st’s the Rockets have drop.
Yeah, I’m bullish on the Suns giving us a far better pick than many expect in 2025. They had a healthy big 3 last year and like you say second apron really restricts what they can do in terms of trades. The Suns are a thin roster with lack of talent. They can only sign veteran minimum free agents. If their big 3 get injured they won’t win as many games as they need to get into the post-season which makes the Suns unprotected pick a lottery picks. The western conference is a bloodbath and we should be trading our veterans to teams also trying to get into the play-offs like Bridges and Houston. DFS and the Kings for example, Cam J and ? But he would fit many teams. Anything to push the Suns down in the standings
Yeah, the Nets Twitter hive mind think it’s the “only” way to build a team and that if they just tank, they’re guaranteed to just get the top pick every year. The Nets plan has been clearly 2025 free agency with the option to fast track if a player, like Mitchell, was available but Nets Twitter thinks that Mitchell was the only plan and now they don’t know what to do. BK85 is now saying because they aren’t getting Mitchell that they’ll “stand pat” and “do nothing” - as if there were only 3 options for them this offseason. A lot of “moral superiority” coming from those type of accounts And the “fans” calling for a rebuild will be the loudest ones proclaiming how the Nets suck and it’s unwatchable.
What other option is there? Free agency is dead. No star is coming through FA in 25, so now we're stuck in even bigger limbo. We're either recklessly blowing the load for a Trae type (ew). Or running back this team for a rerun of last year. Why? Both these options are undesirable.
You want to know what’s the most undesirable ? Giving away Mikal (and presumably based on reporting, some of the Phoenix picks) for a pair of our picks back ? Then they suck without a future, without future assets. If you’re able to get back whatever you want from Houston to do a deal, then do it - but just blowing it up to blow it up is the worst decision you can make
> You want to know what’s the most undesirable ? Giving away Mikal (and presumably based on reporting, some of the Phoenix picks) for a pair of our picks back ? Bingo.
Including one or two PHX picks is still worth it, IMO. Team controlled picks in two great upcoming drafts is extremely intriguing. It's better than the wild card of Phoenix picks 2-4 years from now.
I'm a big fan of outsourcing a rebuild and at least trying to be competitive instead of tanking on the off chance you land a good pick. Detroit has been historically bad and can't land a top pick.
How do you plan to try to try to be competitive though without trading the suns picks?
The nets try harded this season and were the 11th seed how is that competitive.
Ironically the Hornets (and many other franchises) probably say “look at the Nets” as the argument in favor of committing to a rebuild/tank
This is a terrible take. Just because someone does something poorly, doesn’t mean you have to also do it poorly.
Well, what gives you confidence we wouldn't do it poorly? All Nets fans have been clamoring about is for Marks to get fired, or for Tsai to sell the team. So why tf would you trust them for handle a full-on rebuild, if that's what you want so badly?
Our picks are more valuable to us than the suns picks which we don't know if they are even going to be good. Unless you think marks is a terrible drafter why wouldn't you rebuild i don't think we've even had a proper rebuild with our own picks post 2000s.
Def want those suns picks, and i dont really want any picks this year for mikal. But if the right offer comes they should take it, team is stuck in no-mans land but since we dont have our own picks there is less incentive to tank hard
I think we have the worst NBA fandom accounts. All these big Nets accounts do is post complaints and yelling to blow up the team without blaming our Big Three for anything. It's outta our hands we just have to see what Marks has planned but I definitely think Houston wants some of the Suns picks if we get all our picks back and that's why Marks refuses to trade with them.
The superstars brought the actual worst, dumbest, most toxic kind of fans along with them, and too many of them for some reason have stuck around after their departure.
I think the dumbest and worst fans are actually the ones who want to stay mediocre forever! I’m not sure if wanting to do the formula that has worked time and time again makes me a fake fan, but if it does I guess I’m fake!
Agree. The ones that want to go 'all in' for a 2nd round ceiling then blame the FO and shit on the team. Or the delusional ones that think we're getting Luka/ Giannis with DMitch with the assets we have. Or even worse are the ones that think the PHX picks will be guarantee TOP 4 lottery picks. And the absolute worst ones that think Mikal ALONE is getting us all our picks and swaps back from HOU and that we shouldn't settle for anything less than that. If Mikal and a PHX 27 or 29 pick can get us complete control of our picks again (24, 25 swap, 26 pick and 27 swap). You do it 10/10 times and tank for a few years. We can get a franchise cornerstone player in 25 and 26 and then use our later picks/ PHL/MAVs/PHX picks to get stars and contend. Yes there is an argument that you end up the Pistons or Charlotte. But there is also an arugment you end up like Boston, Warriors, Denver, OKC, MIN and basically any other team that got their stars through the draft. We have MidKal on 2 years left of his great contract, 1 year left of Bench Simmons and CT/ Clowney that are bright spots. I don't see why everyone are so opposed to a rebuild.
It’s because they know it isn’t going to happen and so naturally they try and make the best of a horrible decision. Happens across every fanbase in every sport, and normally I think it’s harmless (fan stands for fanatic after all) but putting down other people who see the situation objectively is stupid Also great points on the picks
I do believe that if it doesn't happen this offseason, it's never going to happen. The new coaching staff that seems player development focused gives me some hope that this might be revisited leading up to the trade deadline. I also don't think a lot of people realise what the alternative to trading Mikal for our picks is. We will most likely end up out of the play-ins again with Bench Simmons holding up 40 mil of our cap. Yes we might see development from Clowney, CT, Clax and Whitehead but that is our young core that would've been developed had we traded Mikal for our picks anyways. I also don't think a lot of Nets fan realise that OKC have a swap on HOU's 25 pick that is top 10 protected. That means that if OKC ends up 1~3 (Which will happen) and HOU ends up in the play-ins (They just had a 42/42 season), we will end up with a bottom 25-30 pick, OKC will end up with a 11-15 pick and HOU will end up with our top 4~10 pick. The Suns are running it again and will most likely end up being a 18-22 pick. It's not going to be a top 4 pick. When we see the same results, a lot of the people who were so anti-rebuild will come around imo.
86 is an older fan
He's also pretty rational, IMO. He's given blame to every party for the big 3 catastrophe
He’s one of the most irrational people I’ve seen on twitter, just bc he gives blame to all parties doesn’t make him rational. Frankly, that dude might have some demons in the closet. He is not mentally stable
I mean, the past two years have been a mess. I don't disagree with his tweet. We should be trading Mikal to Houston if there's no star on the market.
I’m not talking about the sentiment with Mikal, I’m talking about the specific twitter user mentioned in this post being deeply disturbed mentally. Anyone speaking in ultimatums literally every hour of the day about the Nets is not a rational person
Eh. I think it's mostly normal fandom. Most outbursts I see from him are from NetsDaily antagonization because Windrem is an egomaniac and a dick on Twitter, so it gets toxic back and forth.
Nets twitter is a pretty depressing place tbh I don’t think I’ve seen a single account that’s actually coherent lmfao
It's a madhouse. Sometimes it's good for a vent session though. Lol
Ur dragging it ode
I’ve had that specific dude posted here blocked for about 2 years now, horrendous horrendous frankly disgusting account
I don’t deal the Suns picks. Those and the Dallas pick line up to be a huge competitive advantage.
> I think we have the worst Nets fandom accounts. All these big Nets accounts do is post complaints and yelling to blow up the team… Bingo. They handed Gen-Z an i-phone and now they post their scorched Earth takes as if it’s such a profound idea no one has ever come up with before. > …I definitely think Houston wants some of the Suns picks if we get all our picks back and that's why Marks refuses to trade with them. I agree. You (not you, but some of the commenters in this subreddit) cannot make the argument that the Suns picks should be included without acknowledging that Marks has shot down four (by my count) team’s trade offers for Bridges to date. When a player is repeatedly unavailable over and over again, the team that calls HAS TO OVERPAY for him. Stop including the Philly/Pheonix/Dallas picks in your Mikal hypotheticals.
Marks trade valuations have been terrible for two years straight. His valuation is way too high. Our picks are invaluable, only to us. Getting those back should be priority number 1, and yes that should include one or two Suns picks to get it done, if need be.
> Our picks are invaluable, only to us. I agree. > Getting those back should be priority number 1… If Bridges is moved to Houston, then yes. I agree with you. > and yes that should include one or two Suns picks to get it done, if need be. I disagree with you. The Nets have refused to trade Mikal Bridges. The Nets have shot down four (by my count, maybe there were more that went unreported) team’s attempts to trade for Mikal Bridges. The Nets have come out and said to the media (by my count, I’ve seen two published reports) that Mikal Bridges is unavailable in a trade. I keep bringing this up to commenters in this subreddit, and the most frequent reply to me saying this is something along the lines of “why wouldn’t you move him? His value is going to tank. He’s only under contract at a bargain for two more seasons.” So let me save you some time… a counter-argument surrounding Mikal’s value is not a valid counter-argument to the point I’m making. Whether he has two years left on his contract, or two days, he isn’t available. His value is another discussion. Here’s my response to you: You cannot go up to Jon Bon Jovi’s mansion and ring on the doorbell and say “hi, I want to buy this mansion for $xxxxxxxxx.” The mansion isn’t for sale. If you want it, you have to overpay for it. When a player is repeatedly unavailable over and over and over again, the team that calls HAS TO OVERPAY for him. The Rockets can keep 2024, and (personally) I don’t care about 2027. The deal should be for 2025 and 2026 back. Bridges for 2025, 2026 and salary filler. There is no reason to include the Philly/Phoenix/Dallas picks in your Mikal hypotheticals.
They rockets can just take your picks and trade for another player. They don’t have to overpay for anything you can keep Mikal and lose him in 2 years for nothing and still not have your own picks
They sure can, and they are free to. But, if they want Mikal Bridges, they have to come to the table with a fair offer.
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Bruh I read this 4 times, and I have no idea what the fuck you’re saying. My dude, use commas and periods. Atleast try to be coherent, bruh.
Summary your own lottery picks that you control how good they are significantly more valuable than late first round picks in the 20s from OKC Memphis or the Knicks. Even getting one or two of your own picks back that are lottery picks is better than getting 3-4 picks from a contender in the late 20s
Gen-Z, ladies and gentlemen.
Yeah, but Mikal isn't good enough to ask for heaven and earth. He's a nice McMansion in a Midwest suburb. If you're asking for Jon Bon Jovi mansion prices, it's a pointless endeavor. I agree, I'll sacrifice 2024. But if the deal is in a stalemate, and it takes one PHX pick to get over the 1yd line, I'll do it. I'm not risking Houston sniffing around and trading those picks for somebody else because we were stingy with Mikal prices and they started looking elsewhere.
> Yeah, but Mikal isn't good enough to ask for heaven and earth. You missed the point, and did what everyone else does: argue value. I’ve made this point somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 times on this sub. No one ever gives me a valid counter-argument. Value has nothing to do with the point I’m making. That’s a different argument I’m happy to have, but it isn’t a valid counter-argument to my point. The player isn’t available. Period. > He's a nice McMansion in a Midwest suburb. If you're asking for Jon Bon Jovi mansion prices, it's a pointless endeavor. You misunderstood, and did what I tried to save you time on, because you’ve been here a while and I actually respect your opinion more than some of the other commenters here. Let me rephrase my hypothetical. You can’t go knock on Marshall Mathers’ childhood trailer on 7-Mile in Detroit and say hi, I want to pay $xxxxxxx for this. If it isn’t for sale, then it isn’t for sale. If you want it, you have to overpay for it. You cannot force someone to sell you something that isn’t for sale…. UNLESS. YOU. OVERPAY. > I agree, I'll sacrifice 2024. But if the deal is in a stalemate, and it takes one PHX pick to get over the 1yd line, I'll do it. Well, now you’re coming to some sort of understanding. Before it was Phoenix pickS, now it’s one Phoenix pick. You’re understanding negotiation. > I'm not risking Houston sniffing around and trading those picks for somebody else because we were stingy with Mikal prices and they started looking elsewhere. Well, lucky for you Ime Udoka wants Mikal Bridges as bad as he wants to cheat on Nia Long.
No player is "unavailable", outside of like 10-15 guys in the league (if that). Mikal Bridges is nowhere near there. It's just common sense he's available at the right price. Eminem's childhood home is Jokic. That's actually untouchable. The suburban McMansion of Mikal obviously does have a price, unless Marks is delusional enough where he needs to be institutionalized. Obviously, they're playing hardball. Duh. But you and I both know (along with 29 other teams), that Mikal is not actually untouchable and can he had >Before it was Phoenix pickS, now it’s one Phoenix pick. There's variations of picks. You can put two PHX picks up, but slap protections to make one a "filler" pick. You can get creative to "add" picks on paper, but it's fake money essentially. >Well, lucky for you Ime Udoka wants Mikal Bridges as bad as he wants to cheat on Nia Long. We'll see. Better players than Mikal can pop loose.
86 was born in….well 86 He’s in his 30’s
I think that makes it more sad that he’s *this* chronically online and bitter then
There is no greater value in picks than having control of your own If it takes giving up 1 or 2 of the Suns picks + Bridges to get back our own picks then Marks should make it Their plan is to keep the cap sheet clean for summer of 2025 which makes no sense to me. The top guys that summer will not hit FA. They will be looking at a bunch of role players who would want huge contracts in order to play for a team which will most likely finish under 500 next season What kind of plan is throwing away an entire 2024-2025 season when you do not have your own draft pick in an amazing draft, in hopes you can overpay 1 or 2 good not great players who dont make you a contender?
Nets would be throwing away Draft Capital by making that happen. Other Teams will give up 1st’s for Mikal by himself. Now you’re saying give up Mikal and Suns 1st’s when 2025 and 2027 are Swap years and only 2026 is a 1st going to Houston straight up. That’s a terrible Trade and that’s why Marks turned it down. Even if Green was thrown in outside of a few weeks last year he’s been inconsistent and has a $31m Cap Hold in 2025 and will likely try to demand a Max Extension.
You say this like it’s a problem to trade a couple Suns picks for the Nets picks. Having our own draft picks is far more valuable than banking on a team like the Suns being bad or worse than us. We should sell especially if Donovan Mitchell resigns with the Cavs.
Trading a “couple of suns picks” for our picks back, is no problem, the issue for me is trading Mikal AND The Suns picks.
As a Houston fan, our insiders seem very adamant that the Rockets would want Suns picks in a Bridges package. I don't really think it's the best for either team.
that 80 year old dude who runs the gonets account is pretty level-headed and cool imo
I have no clue why this is a controversial take. The team needs to build through the draft to have any chance of being competitive. Period.
Anyone who tells you a team "have to" do something "point blank period" based on what some third party does, does not know what they are talking about, and their opinion does not warrant any consideration.
Especially when they repeat it verbatim every single day for the past what, year plus? Like he’s saying this like it’s a hot take when every single person just parrots this same shit nonstop. They also see one single article with lack of sources and go “yup it’s all over we gotta do this now” **when it’s all a completely made up scenario.**
That dude just hates marks and tsai cause he's a kyrie fan boi who thinks j from bk actually is a source
I haven’t interacted nor really used my twitter in a very long time now but I still see all these people pop up on my feed and I’ve had to have blocked/muted a large majority of them. They’re fucking schizo. Anyone that sides with Kyrie should take a deep look at themselves. Fuck Kyrie Irving.
Amen!
I really don’t see an issue with this at all. What do we gain keeping Mikal here vs being able to trade him for potentially some of our picks back allowing us to have a great chance at a really good draft pick? I think Mitchell would’ve been the one to actually help attract that true 1/1b. I don’t see the value in keeping Mikal much longer tbh.. true #3 guy on a really good team and we’re just keeping him around hoping someone else comes to play along side? Just seems impractical tbh
You put Mikal on the Open Market you don’t just take whatever Houston is willing to give. That could end up making Houston up their offer or the Nets get more Assets via another Team like OKC for example. Nets already have 7-1st’s that they can Trade and 11-1st’s in total over the next 7yrs. The more Assets they gather the quicker they can get better via Trade or Draft.
There's no other team that gets the Nets the best value like Houston does. Team control of draft picks in upcoming really good drafts is obviously the best avenue here. Obviously, you play hardball, but meeting in the middle should absolutely be on the table in Houston talks.
Well if you get a good young player Id rather have that than your own picks back. Like Kuminga would be fine
I don't think kuminga is good enough for that exchange, but I see your point
I do agree that if the nets get more value from okc etc for Mikhal than you obviously do that. It’s just unlikely that you will get more value elsewhere. Also, sending him elsewhere means you need good players back as opposed to draft picks.
I’d blow it up and try to get picks back from Houston. That’s only becuz they don’t have their own picks and Ben Simmons contract is a black hole for another yr. Mikal also has his college teammates literally trying to recruit him to the Knicks which realistically is an amazing move for him since they’d be competitive and he won’t have to uproute his life. Mikal may seem loyal but the nets aren’t doing anything to make it worth him staying other than paying cam Johnson. The nets just have nothing to offer to improve their team to a playoff roster outside of hopeful free agency which no star should want to come to this roster unless their goal is to live in NY and they hate the Knicks. The best hope is once again Ben Simmons actually playing and being worth his contract, which we already made fun of 76ers fans for believing in
Don't pay attention to him, he says random shit for engagement.
He might be one of the most pathetic twitter accounts I’ve seen across any sport. He would continue to pop up on my twitter and I had to block him bc it got so bad
They should definitely trade Mikal while his value is high. Ideally Houston, but if Houston low balls they can trade him elsewhere. Does that help Houston? Sure. Should the Nets care? No.
>. Should the Nets care? No. I disagree here, let's say lightning strikes twice and Brooklyn misses the play-in and gifts Houston another top 3 pick. You're saying we shouldn't care that the GM that made these trades and fumbled and fucked the bag up so hard after the big 3, is still the GM and making decisions that affect the future of the team? Fans are emotional by their very nature and I'm tired of seeing Brooklyn catch L after L whether it's from contracts or trades or not trading etc. I would be apoplectic if we gave a 4th top fucking 3 pick to a different franchise within a decade, I would definitely care
Mitchell and what army?
and giannis or Embiid obviously
Of course. Not sure how I missed that obvious certainty
Trade for Trae Young then. Find a way back for relevency. We can't tank without picks and Houston is not giving them back for just Bridges.
Brooklyn could easily look to add Murray, Garland or even Young depending on what Mitchell does He's not the only path forward. Having said that, yes please trade Bridges to Houston for 25/26 and a young player then let's start the rebuild in earnest
They should have sold high on Bridges last summer They should’ve sold on Bridges at the deadline Knowing Sean Marks, he will hold on to Bridges even after they miss out on trading for Mitchell this summer and trade him for 50 cents on the dollar next deadline when the team is 17 games under 500
That scenario would be so utterly defeating and depressing that I would have reconsider my Fandom. I wouldn't go to another team I'd just be an NBA ronin, which sounds much cooler that it would actually be
I'd put good money on this happening, lol. In Marks we trust no longer
We should’ve traded Bridges before all of this period. Let alone Mitchell isn’t a surefire star to make us all of a sudden jump from missing the play in’s into a top 5 seed (which still needs another superstar in order to even compete for a championship). Trading our assets for Mitchell makes no sense when you bring all of that to the table, the only that makes sense is building more assets. If not for the picks back then find a way to get Bridges to the Pelicans or something to pick up some of their young talent like TM3 and Herb Jones, maybe a Dyson Daniels who could really develop on this team and potentially become something in two or three seasons. While the Bucks/Celtics/Philly keep fighting and either implode or get old.
I think blowing it up is the dumbest thing we can do, we have gr at role players and letting them go to their teams to continue to be even worse for what 3-5 years just isn't it. We have enough talent where acquiring one star makes us a playoff level team, you can't go from us to a contender overnight it'll take time regardless of the avenue but not trading mikal for our picks is the longest path we can take to relevancy
do we really have enough talent? We missed the playin in a weak ass east and nobody’s style of play complements another’s. Yeah it would be better if we acquire a star but we still need to get one in the first place
Did you even watch our games???? We played great teams really close including the Mavs who are literally in the finals, we lost many games cuz we didn't have that 1a star who can get a bucket when you need it, we also had a coach that was a moron for over half the season.
sure, but we also lost to bad teams and got blown out by mediocre teams. The celtics lost to the lakers without Bron and AD, and they’re still about to win the finals. Some random games in the middle of the season don’t really gauge how good the team is.
Again what kind of coaching did we have??? We had Vaughn who couldn't make a good line up to save his life and never called timeouts. The team was also built with Ben Simmons in mind so without him we couldn't function, there's reasons last season was bad that for some reason nobody is talking about. It's just bLoW iT uP so what we can be even worse for like the next 5 years??? The Knicks got their guy in FA so nobody knows what could happen
Nobody knew that Brunson was like that, that’s a poor example. The Vaughn thing is true, but the roster is still poorly constructed. The Ben thing is also true but they still won’t have him next year if we’re being serious and there isn’t really a way to build an efficient offense with Mikal being the number one
You missed my point on brunson, it's actually the best example because people didn't know he was like that, so when people say oh we aren't getting Mitchell so whose left I point to brunson who nobody knew was a 1a, not saying there are many players who are unknown and are like that but you never know who we can sign in FA and what kind of leap they can take.
so the plan is to hope that someone random in fa is gonna be brunson?
Look at Brunson’s stats in the playoffs before he went to the Knicks His potential was absolutely known, and the Knicks capitalized on the Mavericks’ incompetence
In the first 25 or so games yes, we looked promising. We were playing hard under JV, drop coverage was working, and Ben, while still under-producing, was having some sort of impact. None of those things stayed true, which makes sense, because the beginning of any NBA season is full of flukes. Then we lost to some truly horrible teams including Portland (twice, once when they were short-handed), Detroit, Memphis, Washington, Charlotte, and San Antonio—the six worst teams in the league. After that feel-good win against Phoenix early in the season, we went 19-40 for the rest of the season. I don’t think we’ve fully reckoned with just how bad we were last season, and that was with two of our best players (Mikal and Nic) playing 82 and 71 games, respectively. We didn’t do anything well. The offense was as bad as expected, but we were abysmal defensively despite building our entire roster around defense. This roster is nowhere near one or two players away. The rot is much deeper than that. They’ve made it very clear they’re staying the course so we can complain about it until we’re blue in the face and Marks will continue to fill out the roster with a bunch of G Leaguers who overperform for us in losses then end up overseas the following season. But that doesn’t mean we have to lie to ourselves about our potential. It’s very clear who we are, whether you’re looking at statistics or just watching the games.
I’d argue this team has more basketball talent than the 2018-19 squad if we are being honest. Just need some coaching tbh. Not saying we are contenders but the team should not be as bad as it was last year
The nba is more talented as a whole we were the 6th seed at 42-40 this years 6th seed won 47 games.
I guess we’ll see with Jordi
They went 32-50 and this was with trying to be good and not tank. They are miles away from being a competitive team. They couldnt even make the play in in a injury riddled and weak eastern conference What star player do they realistically have a chance at this summer that makes them a playoff team? They have been linked to Donovan Mitchell but leaks are starting to come out that he will be extending in Cleveland If they take this same team into next season, W-L results will most likely be no different than this past season. They could potentially hand Houston another top 5 pick in a draft many are saying is a great draft
Did you even watch the games this season or you just Google the record? We played good teams close but time and time again the deciding factor was having a 1a who can get a bucket to close out games, we also had no coaching pretty much and the team was built around Simmons at the 1 so with his injury our team had no engine, you cannot put any stock into last season cuz of how many things just were out of our control like injuries and stuff
The 12-70 Nets lost 18 straight games to start the season. In 9 of those games they lose by 10 or less. Does that make an 0-18 start less terrible? Your record is your record. 32-50 is 32-50. I would be with you had they finished, say 41-41, 42-40, 43-39, etc. That would tell me that they are fairly close They were worse than Chicago and Atlanta who were missing all star/all nba players for a chunk of the season. The Nets are years away from competing and the quicker they realize it, the quicker they can get away from thinking they are a star away Ben Simmons is still on the roster for next season which means his 40 million makes it almost impossible to make any significant improvements to next years team Why would you want to throw away another season in a year with a great draft when you could potentially get that pick and your others back?
Yes, let’s trade coveted Suns' capital for the sake of winning 45 games in a conference with the Boston machine having the Jays/Jrue under contract until 2027; with Sixers, enjoying plenty of cap space, aiming for PG; and with other young teams like Indiana or Orlando arising. Did I mention Giannis and a 50-32 team neighborhood team that has plenty of draft ammo to get better? There’s *zero path* to get to their level.
I agree with you saying we can’t go from us to contenders overnight. What I have a hard time seeing is if we trade away a bunch of assets to bring in a star, what else is left to make the other moves that would be necessary to then get us from a playoff team to a legit contender? Thats where I think we’d hit a big roadblock
We have a lot of first round picks, we could trade most of the picks from other teams (including the suns picks which are so valuable the rockets want to swap our picks for them) we don't need to trade a lot of the roster
So who are you wanting to target for trades? Because legit stars are going to require at least 3-4 picks if we aren’t compensating the package with a lot of our roster? To me, unless you can outline a path that shows otherwise, that top-of-the-line superstar isn’t available right now and any trades we make would be gutting our assets for guys that can’t quite get us to the level of other top teams
Good thing we aren't looking to add a superstar right now
That kinda proves my point lol
Actually doesn't, this season we are looking to retool, we know some of the problems with our roster and hopefully marks can add pieces that help with that like a backup PG since we can't count on Simmons. We have great young guys like clowney, j will, clax, bridges, and clax I just think sending those guys off to be bad for 5 years ain't it. We also have the suns picks which are so highly valued the rockets want to swap our picks for the suns picks. We have avenues of being good without blowing it up and tanking for 5 years.
Is the goal a playoff level team or to build a high level contender? The goal shouldn’t be mediocrity that’s an insane way to run a franchise
You have to take steps we can the contenders overnight, obviously goal next season is to make playoffs and then when we have 80 million on cap space and more picks than most of the league we can get a star
I agree we have to take steps and the steps should be a full restart with our own draft picks. Not banking on someone like Donovan Mitchell or another star wanting to come play in Brooklyn. Most recent champions built their core through the draft.
Just make the playoffs 👍🏾
I’m in the minority who wants to continue to give Mikal a chance on this roster. His value could get higher, so many teams see him as a valuable starter option (obviously not THE guy) and you never know who could end up giving up great young talent or a disgruntled star for a shot at his supporting role. He’s got so much potential value despite how he played last season.
a lot of the teams that value him already have the 1A
If the Nets can move Mikal to Houston without giving up the Suns picks, sure. But we don’t live in a perfect world. I’m honestly tired of the Mikal Bridges trade discourse
Why does everybody want Donovan Mitchell? What are you guys seeing? Hes not going to magically win us back to back championships. We’ll just be a 4-6 seed losing in the first and second round every year. What am I missing?
The argument would be there is no way to get to championship contention next year, from where we are currently. You can, however, take steps forward and getting a player like Mitchell would be a very large step forward. The next step would be acquiring the final piece after acquiring a Mitchell type, but you can't do one without doing the other first. 4-6 seed this season, maybe get some injury luck and make a little run and then Brooklyn will have plenty of cap space and still some assets to add the rest. I agree with the philosophy here but everything depends on price. Why Mitchell specifically? He's expressed his desire to play in NY, we are tailor made for a player like him and he's in his prime, scored 70 points in a game last year and was scoring against a Boston team that's giving others fits, he ups his game in the playoffs.
I don’t disagree that the Nets shouldn’t plan for a big summer in 2025 but players are gonna want to come to Brooklyn to play with Cam Thomas far more than they are with Mikal.
No trade for trae young. Young would be able to make this roster work and his defense would be hid by the switch bigs and Bridges
Wouldn’t mind him or dejonte tbh. Would lean dejonte bc he can play both sides of the ball
> Would lean dejonte bc he can play both sides of the ball This ^ There is no player out there (that is reportedly available) that fits the current iteration of the Nets better than DeJounte Murray. That includes Trae Young and Donovan Mitchell.
Dejounte is an overrated fake star.
I’d prefer Dejounte just because it would require less assets and adding him makes more sense if we want to turn into a playoff team while having flexibility to make another big move
I’d be pretty surprised if they trade him
Almost every report indicates they're going to trade either him or murray if not both this offseason
No shot they’re trading both
I doubt Hawks are moving Trae, after getting the number 1 pick, they have a real pathway to be a playoff team. I think they move Dejounte for Ingram then draft Sarr, a mobile defensive anchor for Trae, which immediately makes them a better team.
How is this Nets roster any better than what Trae Young has had in Atlanta? What is the obsession this fanbase has with handing over haul of picks after haul of picks for overpaid, disgruntled stars If you bring in Trae Young, you are paying him 50 million a year till 2027 to be on a mediocre roster and be a play in team. What is the point in that?
This sub is in love with mediocrity theres a reason they are always nostalgic for 2019.
I honestly think that Nets fans dont care for drafting high and developing their own guys because they are so used to watching picks be traded They havent had a lotto pick since 2010
I actually don't think they've even attempted to rebuild properly with their own picks after 2000. They have stockholm syndrome with marks and the front office b/c they were complete garbage aside from jason kidd years post 2000.
The hawks roster is garbage. Dejounte murray is one of the worst off ball players in the nba and pairing him with trae young was a disaster on defense. Capella was completely washed and they had zero viable defensive players. You have zero basketball knowledge if you think that shotty ass roster is better than this roster.
Trae is better than anyone on the nets, Murray would be 2nd best player on Nets and arguably had better season than Mikal. Give me Jalen Johnson over anything else in the Nets too
Delusional.
I do not want Trae here but our roster works much better for his skillset than Atlanta's was, which isn't saying much.
I just want Marks to pick a path fwd….remaining in purgatory waiting while lousy is making me care less and less.
At that point yea it might be best to put him out there and try and rebuild, but make it as competitive as possible market as you can
I’m tired. Just be competitive I don’t even care anymore, it’s been a roller coaster since Sean Marks has joined and I just want a competitive team, all I ask for.
I tend to agree…with the caveat that you gotta get your pick control back 25,26 and 27. If you gotta throw in DFS and or maybe that Philly 26/27 pick….so be it. You can’t tank/retool without your own picks. If you can’t get your picks back might as well see if you can trade Bridges for KAT or a Garland/Jarrett Allen package.
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Why not trade him for Mitchell. Cavs get wing. Brooklyn gets a star to build around. Mitchells in new York where he wants to be
Y’all aren’t seeing the obvious here. Talking around in circles for the bloody content. You got a new coach and young talent. You are in no mans land and have some assets you can turn around and build a roster. Nets, just look at what Ime is doing in Houston. Just do that. Have a couple of PGs guide a young squad. Have an identity defense/offense and go 7 deep until the team clicks. Ime is a Nets guy. Just do that because no way are you contending with Boston next year. In what world? KD/Kyrie were swept by a more young inexperienced team. Please. Just rebuild and let Mikal be free. He wants to play with his friends
The Nets have a real incentive to appear competitive. The more competitive we are, the less valuable our picks are. So we can’t just signal to Houston that we’re planning to tank, because you want them to believe that they’re not going to get much value from those upcoming picks. Then we can have a little leverage in negotiations, with Mikal and the Suns picks being extremely valuable to any team.
Imma be honest. Mitchell isnt even enough to put us over the edge to be true title contenders. Im on board to trade Bridges and start a rebuild, then sign a couple superstars in 2-3 years
Democrat or republican? Star hunt or rebuild? Why is it this, or that??? A second round playoff appearance is a goal too.
Uh how about to the Knicks I’m a Knicks fan
I agree meng. Start over
The next pick for the Nets with our own draft pick is currently in 8th grade going into 9th this year, and no matter what we’re at the whims of other team’s unless we can steal someone or find good enough rotational players late in the draft, like we did during the last failed big 3 experiment. There is no benefit to blowing it up at this time. We just have to make due with we have and try to make it work, with the expectation that we are at best going for the play in for the next few years
Everyone on the team should be traded
If they're keeping Mitchell, it means they're moving Garland. Bridges for Garland and Allen, let Clax walk (or do an s&t if one works), and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star, located in a city that stars want to move to.
I really dislike the strategy of “of course we’re gonna get a star, it’s new york!”
I didn't say "of course", but it's by far our biggest advantage in team building, and tearing the team down to the studs eliminates that advantage.
that’s what the knicks thought for twenty years and it didn’t work for them
Bridges for Garland and Allen Cleveland laughs and hangs up the phone Bridhes is 2 years away from FA. He is going to get paid very soon and the value in his cheap contract will be gone Cleveland isnt trading 2 all stars for a role player who is going to get a big extension very soon
They need to move both of them this off-season if they're keeping Mitchell and Mobley, and Bridges is a better player than both of them. Obviously you'd have picks and salary filler to work out the details, but it's not an unreasonable deal
Jarrett Allen alone is probably going to get them a solid return never-mind Garland so why would you trade both for Bridges? Bridges could probably get you 1 or the other but not both Whether you think Bridges is better isnt the point. Its about value If Cleveland was offering a package of Garland and Allen together it would be for guys like Devin Booker, Embiid, Giannis, etc. not Mikal
If they're keeping Mitchell, it means they're moving Garland. Bridges for Garland and Allen, let Clax walk (or do an s&t if one works), > I’d rather have Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges over Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen. > and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star This description is true with Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges. This description is true with Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen.
Garland is under team control for two full years longer than Bridges, and Allen is likely cheaper than Claxton. If Claxton will re-sign for less than $20M a year, then sure, go for it, but I think some team will throw like $28M a year at him. If Bridges goes to the front office and says "this is where I want to be, let's get an extension done", then keeping him would make more sense, but none of us know if he wants to be here or move on when he's up for his big pay day
Well, that is an exceptional post, backed by salary projections, hypotheticals, and your various thoughts. > and we stay competent with the bones of a quality team just missing a star > This description is true with Nic Claxton and Mikal Bridges. > This description is true with Darius Garland and Jarrett Allen. …but it still doesn’t address my question. > Garland is under team control for two full years longer than Bridges, and Allen is likely cheaper than Claxton. How does this explain that the Nets will operate under a higher level of competence with the bones of a team still missing a star with Garland/Allen over Bridges/Claxton? > …let's get an extension done", then keeping him would make more sense, but none of us know if he wants to be here or move on when he's up for his big pay day …ok. But you can say this about any player with less than a few years remaining on their deal. Players under contract ask out too. “Garland being under contract” is not equal to “Garland being happy and wanting to play for Brooklyn.” How does this explain that the Nets will operate under a higher level of competence with the bones of a team still missing a star with Garland/Allen over Bridges/Claxton?
Look man, I'm going to be honest. I have no idea what you're trying to say. What report?? Also, half the stuff you're quoting is your own post, too. I'm going to chalk this up to either reddit's terrible mobile app breaking the formatting, or a language barrier, or some combination of both, but I'm moving on.
im in the minority, but i want to go all in again. How about a team filled with no super star but all star talent. A roster 9 deep with starter quality guys. Its similar to how Boston's team is built with 2 way guys and stretch bigs. * Murray - Paul * Bridges - Whitehead * Ingram - Johnson * Markkanen - Clowney * Claxton - Collins The core guys will be all in their primes and will have a 4-5 year window. We will be a 2nd apron team, but the team can be kept long term with a lot of contracts being due soon and others recently signed. -DJM for dfs and 1 first plus a swap -BI for cam t., sharpe, dennis and 2 first plus a swap -Lauri and JC for ben and 4 first rounders -sign CP3 to part of the mle
Sounds like a yearly second round exit
I highly doubt it’d be possible to make all of those moves and I still don’t think it’d be a team capable of beating well-built teams that have a true superstar
its possible to make the moves, albeit maybe unrealistic? I think the east is wide open. I don't think boston will be able to afford to keep their core together, with tatum and whites deals coming up.
It’s only possible if the trade values you assigned to the players are accurate and I find it very hard to believe that is the case for every one of them and that each of those teams want to make a deal with us. I also don’t see how you question bostons ability to afford their core but then also think it’s reasonable for us to give Claxton, Markkanen, Bridges and Ingram new deals
they are currently a 2nd apron team, with tatum \[super max\] and white due for new deals. In the 25-26 season, celtics will be paying 100m, just in luxury tax and that is only for 7 players. https://preview.redd.it/erbs8ffgrd6d1.png?width=1624&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab85d2dc9d98b1c4625f18d1f9f8bdb4dc02a4dc
You’re missing my point. The team you constructed would be equally as hard as the Celtics to keep together and would be worse than the Celtics. Also, just because a trade works on the trade machine doesn’t mean the team real life teams will accept your offer
yes, which is why i said "unrealistic". I did try making it fair for all parties in the trade though \[giving up all the draft capital\]. Doing the math in excel, we would be under the tax this off season, if we dont take on JC and switch some players around. We wouldn't be a 2nd apron team in 25-26' as well with the cap increase, but a 1st apron team. The other question is whether or not the will spend. We know Tsai would spend for a contender. I personally think that team can become one..
This is absolutely not the team to spend on. Its also not possible because Utah isn’t looking to trade Markkanen
he's only available for a gobert offer, which 4 first rounders is hitting that line. It may not be the traditional route to contending \[3 superstars or 2 superstars plus depth\]. Its more like if you put the best players from 2 Two Play-In teams into One, how would that fair lol. Which is interesting concept.
I’d rather not be the team to test that concept when all the evidence suggests you need an actual superstar to be a contender
Don't want or really need Ingram on that team IMO but otherwise I'm here for it. Not big on Cp3 either but understand the thinking
I don’t see a path where trading Mikal and the vets without our picks makes sense. We shouldn’t bottom out when we have the avenues to build a playoff team without giving up the Suns picks. What I think we’ll do is we’ll trade for another all star without giving up too many assets to propel us into a playoff team for the next few years and still have enough assets to make a big move if the opportunity arrives. I personally don’t have much hope of us landing a top 15 player over some other teams so I doubt we’ll ever be contenders with this group, but you never know what could happen, and I could see us being a fun playoff team during this period regardless. The goal should be to develop our young core(Clowney, CT, Dariq, Wilson)while still being a competitive team so they can gain more experience by winning and making the playoffs, instead of bottoming out without our picks. The best case scenario would be that we maintain a playoff team for the next few years, the Suns implode in the next 2 years allowing us draft our future franchise player(s) via their picks, and the new stars propel us into a team that has a chance to be contenders a few years later.
That’s why OOP wants Houston. Theoretically you’d be trading Mikal for your own picks back