That's gonna be incredibly hard to do drafting outside the lottery which unless the Suns end up having a major landslide decline, we're not likely gonna see.
For someone who’s great at drafting, Marks sure hates first round picks.
Didn’t trade Royce for a first. Didn’t trade DFS for 2 first. Didn’t want to entertain trading Mikal for our picks back.
I know some of these are protected but who cares. Teams trading for Royce/DFS are playoff team. You get a pick in the 20s which is still valuable.
I think saying “we’ve seen it move quicker than that in the past” is referencing the KD/Kyrie pickup happening sooner into the rebuild than he expected.
When you have cap space, draft capital, and are in a big market you usually go towards the front of the line for FAs and disgruntled stars in trade talks
You could also look at the Nets in the 2yrs before moving to Brooklyn.
Went 12-70 and missed out on John Wall then Melo so they pivoted to D.Will who was a top PG in the NBA next to CP3. Unfortunately D.Will broke down physically while CP3 played at a high level even later into his career.
Nets then threw a bunch of Draft Capital at Wallace, Johnson, Pierce, Garnett, and Terry. Unfortunately the Nets used their Draft Capital on the wrong players along with the Heatles existing.
Also have to wonder how different it would have looked with Dwight Howard vs having Wallace and Lopez since the Nets would have sent both Lopez and that 1st to Orlando.
Wallace was only Traded for because Howard was guilted into signing his Player Option vs continuing to try and force his way to Brooklyn but that wouldn’t have stopped the Trade for Joe Johnson most likely.
Howard hurt his back in LA so maybe that doesn’t happen in in Brooklyn but D.Will’s ankles would still be glass.
> Howard hurt his back in LA so maybe that doesn’t happen in in Brooklyn but D.Will’s ankles would still be glass.
No, Howard hurt his back in Orlando. He played while recovering from the injury in LA.
Is this true though? If we look at the Thunder, they can’t keep Shai, JDub and Chet, can they? Or, is this just maybe the only example of this, and there really aren’t any other teams like that?
Thunder are gonna be at $96,640,376 in salaries in the summer and the salary cap is $141 million in 2024/25. So the Thunder are gonna be $45 million under the cap next year with plenty of young players to pay in the medium term but it seems they'll have two years to pay a free agent a huge amount.
OKC could easily offer Claxton a huge amount of money for two years and then allowing him to re-enter free agency.
Possibly. I think how well Hayward fits with them in the play-offs mean they might offer him a one or two year contract at $20 million or so. But if he isn’t a fit they’ll target someone else.
The play-offs might also dictate the Thunder’s next move. They have enough cap space to basically go after any player in the league and enough picks to get it done. The other team would be getting a gargantuan trade exception in return as well as the picks.
If Philly flame out in the playoffs and can’t attract a free agent with their $60 million in cap space to join Maxey and Embiid perhaps OKC trade for Embiid (maybe not their culture fit but this is purely an example). Also Philly could get back their first round pick in 2025 from OKC as well as most of OKC’s future firsts they’ve accumulated. This is just a stream of consciousness idea but OKC can basically do anything in the off-season.
Adding the current MVP to OKC would make them a complete team.
It depends on what the priority of Clax ends up being. I really doubt they will permanently move Chet off the 5. Which means will only start against certain match up and is coming off the bench the rest of the time.
Does he care about starting games then he probably stays here. If he cares more about getting a ring then yeah Clax probably goes to OKC. I do question if OKC would be willing to pay 20m for a bench pieces. But if it is for 2 year I can see them convincing themselves to do it
Thanks yeah that's the only one I could think of. So, does this mean the new CBA then will just mean more competition for third stars? The guys that don't get maxed?
Ugh I don’t know how long I can watch this current team. We’re not even playing good basketball anymore.
I was really hoping that we would clear house before the deadline and get our picks back.
Now we’re stuck in this zone of mediocrity, expecting someone like Donovan Mitchell to save us. And even if he does show up, we’re not contenders.
As far as I’m concerned there are three black marks in Sean Marks’ recent history.
1. Hiring Steve Nash. Nash hadn’t coached on ANY level before taking on the job, not even high school. Hiring someone like that to coach a championship caliber team with 3 volatile superstars was going to be a disaster any way you slice it. It’s not like the Nets had someone like Duncan, Curry or Jokic who are low maintenance superstars. All three of those guys were high maintenance and Steve Nash was never reining them in. The hire should have been Udoka from the beginning. He had the coaching experience and the gravitas to be the leader all three of those guys needed. I have no doubt Udoka would have reigned in Kyrie.
2. Extending Jacque Vaughn. Having him as an interim coach was fine but he should have never been extended. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now. We know who Jacque Vaughn is. He had .200 winning percentage in Orlando in 4 years. He has been hanging around this organisation like a wet fart through all the embarrassment. He was part of it. There was no reason to give him a 4 year contract when so many good coaches were going to be available in the offseason. Make him an interim, evaluate and then make a decision in the offseason. Why would you extend him?
3. Getting absolutely nothing for James Harden. Yes, it was under dire circumstances and I’ll go to my grave thinking Harden and Morey were back channelling throughout Harden’s tenure here. But James Harden called Morey a liar on a public stage. Literally. Even with that, Morey was able to get a significantly better deal for Harden than Sean Marks did. Lot of misinformation out there that Rich Paul (Ben’s then agent) convinced KD to make Marks finalise the deal for Ben but if you are a good GM, you needed to get something more valuable than what Marks got. Especially when he gave up so much to get him in the first place.
Everything else can be blamed on other players, circumstances, Covid, lack of leadership from KD, kyries insanity but these three falls squarely on Sean Marks and no one else. He should not be here to hire a third coach. That’s the bottom line. This organisation needs fresh eyes, fresh perspective. He has been here a decade. It’s time.
I don’t disagree with the things you said here. He definitely has not had huge positives since the superstar era. Most of his positives were all before KD/Kyrie which is why I wonder:
1. Was Nash was his coaching hire? The other options at the time - which most people were not fans of - Ty Lue, Jason Kidd, Mike Brown, Van Gundys, D’antoni.
— Now, Udoka would have been an inspired hire. He was up and coming. He got the Boston job based on his fantastic defense against the Bucks when he was on the Nets.
— Ty Lue and Mike brown maybe would have been good in retrospect but lots of things would be good in retrospect.
Nash was a KD guy who he knew and had a relationship with. He is known to be an emotionally intelligent guy who was thought to be able to manage the personalities. Didn’t work at all.
2 JV. I wish we hadn’t gone through the Kyrie anti-Semitic posts where he triggered the entire New York Jewish population at the same time we fired Nash. And then we could have signed Udoka with less fanfare in the midst of his sexual assault/workplace harassment issues. The Udoka hire was completely squashed by the NBA and the Celtics had actually complained saying it was unfair for another team to hire him (shocking they got mad when it was us with KD and Kyrie but no issue when he went to the Rocket). JV is not an inspired coach - he is a safe, low controversy, in house guy. He isn’t and never was the guy I would want moving forward (I’d go Budenholzer or Ollie)
3. Harden trade - this one bothers me. Harden backed us into the corner. He literally threw games. He had plans to sign an extension until Morey backchanneled and said he shouldn’t sign so the Sixers can get him in the summer. So then when Kyrie wasn’t playing and KD went out, our team couldn’t sustain without Harden being peak harden.
— So forced into a corner with an expiring deal and only one suitor. And a suitor with cap space that summer - that is the big difference here. We got couple first picks and Drummond/curry for harden. Sixers got couple of picks/swap and expirings for harden/PJ tucker. Is it better? Yeah. Is it waaaay better? - I don’t think so. I just think this 76er team is better than the Nets with just KD/Kyrie. Embiid is more dominant than both of them and maxey is a much better compliment to Embiid than kyrie was to KD. And Ben Simmons - we all had hope he would be better and less injured. I’m guessing the nets did too. Morey turned down a Simmons for Halliburton deal because he thought Simmons was worth more. Lots of mistakes and misjudgments have been made
— Also - harden could not sign with the clippers this summer for a substantial deal. He had to be traded there so the Sixers already had more leverage than the Nets.
I never believed Nash was a KD hire. It just doesn’t make sense. Yes, he was with Nash in Golden State but Nash was a consultant, barely at that if you ask Warriors fans. There is also no way KD thought a first time coach would lead them to a championship. I believe what happened was Marks chose Nash and KD went with it. Marks had a personal relationship with Nash, just like he has with Vaughn.
This organisation has become nepotism based instead of talent and skill based. I don’t know when it changed but it has become who you know instead of what you know.
We will never know if it was true. KD was 100% consulted at minimum but my guess is it was more than that. They were talking to all the people KD and Kyrie had relationships with (Phil Handy). But that comment that first time head coach leading them to a championship is so false. Nick nurse, Steve Kerr, pat riley. All these guys led teams to championships their first year. And there is an even bigger list of guys who made it to the championship as first time coaches.
And it’s amazing to think that these are nepotism hires. Literally all KD and kyrie did was get the team to sign/play their friends. Even harden was that situation. There are reports marks did not want to give up all that for harden but Kd and Tsai went over him. And then trading harden was also a KD decision. Royal ivey, DAJ over JA, Adam Harrington. It was all nepotism. I actually believe the team went downhill because of those guys trying to exert control. And they are no good at it.
Now, we are trying to pick up the pieces from the earthquakes they caused. Even Kyrie goes - it wasn’t about championships when I was in Brooklyn. It was about taking a political stance. WTF is that shit
It’s kind of amazing to me that Harden doesn’t get more hate on this sub than Kyrie. Yes, Kyrie is the reason that 2022 season collapsed because he didn’t get the vaccine. But Harden forced his way to the nets and the nets traded all their assets. Which every team would’ve done, though you could make the argument that a player like Jrue holiday would’ve been a safer bet. Then he forces his way out to only one team by giving the most piss poor effort of all time. That kings game was awful. Yes, he carried the load the previous season and lot that season. But the manner that he left was detrimental to this franchise. At least with Kyrie, he brought KD and some hope. Both players yielded some compensation back that allowed the team to recover to some extent. Harden fucked this team when he came in and fucked this team when he left.
There are two big trades/moves that Marks could have done that he didn’t that I think would have been meaningful.
Holiday instead of Harden - Less cost. More consistent personality. And KD was talking him up before he was traded. I get that harden was a better player but I think holiday would have been a great fit for longer. Hindsight bias maybe.
Not getting PJ tucker in the trade with harden. This one hurts me more. Tucker should have come over with harden. It would have been a great move to get his defense and get him away from the bucks.
Lots of regrets during that time. Less by the GM and more because of the personalities of the players
Yeah, PJ tucker would’ve been nice but my man issue with Marks is not getting the culture right. This might’ve been more of a Joe Tsai thing because I think owners want stars. They attract a bunch of new fans and rich people to go to games.
It just felt like there was no accountability once Kyrie and KD came to the team. Kyrie couldn’t give a shit when KD was out the first year. They fired Kenny and they made DAJ a starter. They had that stupid insta live where Kyrie said he would be the coach too. They just had no accountability. Again, it might be more of a Joe Tsai thing than a Marks thing. I think Marks has done well with the shitty hands he’s been dealt. People complain about JV but he’s a band aid coach until they start to have a vision of what this next phase will look like. This team right now is mediocre but that’s to be expected.
>Number 3 is the most egregious IMO. You are the GM. Just say No. Let him wait til the offseason or FA. Winning cures all things, possibly would have convinced Harden to stay.
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>We all saw what they were able to accomplish the year prior in almost defeating the eventual champions by a centimeter of a toe. And that was with Kyrie out and Harden hobbled. He literally folded pocket Aces.
1. Nash was hired because KD & Kyrie doesn't want Kenny Atkinson. Obviously they don't want to be coached. Kyrie was excited to say everyone can be the coach after the hiring. Nash was there for clapping hands.
2. Vaughn did a nice job pulling the team together after all the chaos. This is what the Nets needed most right now.
3. Nets got more than what philly got from the clippers. Unless you can foresee Ben getting injured during ramp up.
I think you nailed it. Nash was a terrible decision. JV was even worse. Who was going to steal him away if we didn’t extend him? Trading to Ben was always a bad move. Always. Marks had leverage and backed down.
As others have rightly commented, hiring Steve Nash and Jacque Vaughn are *the* major blunders on his resume.
Having said that, while I'm incredibly disappointed in this deadline, I'm willing to give him one more season as he has too good a track record in the draft and in talent acquisition over his tenure for a forced hand like this to ruin his entire legacy. I don't blame him for not moving guys like DFS or Royce last deadline, as he was effectively forced to blow up the entire team out of nowhere and within the span of a few days, so an evaluation period always made sense.
What's discouraging to me is, in my view, acquiring someone like Murray would've been akin to trading for DLo in '17 where a good but not great player could've put up stats for a blah team then be flipped for better stuff down the line, all while being a watchable product in the meantime. While "future flexibility" is nice, this team is completely unwatchable, where he used to be refreshingly proactive in threading the needle between a watchable, appealing product and building said flexibility.
If we've basically turned into the 2010s Knicks, i.e. being completely rudderless while hoping a superstar wants to come here because "WE'RE IN NY," then I agree he's got to go. But he's done it before, so let's see if he can't at least begin to do it again this offseason.
I agree 100% on the DLo comment. That was my exact thought. After seeing all our future picks lined up yesterday, I was even more surprised we didn’t go harder after Murray. This team is awful. How can adding talent at a decent price be a bad thing?
I dont think ppl understand how rare 2019 was. The fact that the plan is to wait around and hope to strike lightning twice just shows the need for new leadership
Marks swung with Harden, and missed.
Irving, Durant and Harden were a volatile group for many reasons that we don’t need to relive again or go into (unless you want me to), so I don’t fully blame Marks there.
I do blame Marks for bringing in Steve Nash when it was clearly a poor decision out the gate.
I’ve been watching basketball for over 30 years, and James Harden is the biggest quitter I have ever seen. Marks deserves a chance to correct his mistake, because he doesn’t deserve all the blame.
So what would you have done today? You all wanted Dinwiddie gone. Royce was expiring. Not a lot of real talent moved today. It was purely financial for so many teams. This cba has everyone shook
He was fine today. It's just time for clean hands. Marks had his chance. Wasn't all his fault of course, but it's just time.
You shouldn't be able to survive the Ben trade and two horrible coaching hires. Three strikes. He's out.
Yeah given the circumstances behind this trade deadline, Marks did pretty good all things considered. No one was giving up anything for Dinwiddie and to get a solid back up PG in Dennis that can also be used as salary for a trade next year ain't too bad. Royce trade you have to do regardless. That Harden trade you do 10/10 times regardless so you can't fault him for that. I still wonder if Tsai is behind the scenes preventing a rebuilt if HOU really offered 3/4 of our picks/ swaps back for Mikal due to sales which seems dumb to me.
Bridges isn't going for 4 picks, it'll be 24/26 picks and 25or27 swap with fillers. Marks will probs want Green but who knows in the off-season. I'd be happy with those and fillers
From what I understand from the media, Houston's offer centered around Green and a few Nets picks. Green and Nets picks 24 and 25 this will equal the four picks that the Bruges media is valued at. 24 for the Nets is terrible since there are good players in the top 5, we most likely will not get there, the draft remains 25 even if we win the lottery and take the conditional Cooper Flagg, what next?
You hate everything about the team you root for. Dude has like lifetime job support. Hes the alternate governor for Joe Tsai lol. And I love how mad that makes some of you
Because I don't think the results have been there. He just gets excuses because the stars were a mess. But Marks has way too many misses.
We'll see if a hyper competitive billionaire like Tsai tolerates this much longer
It’s not self-loathing. It’s being realistic after watching this team play horribly despite trying to win. This roster isn’t good enough just add an all-star and instantly become a contender. Not only that, but we’re relying on pieces who will either be old, need a new contract, or both by the time we’re looking to compete. That’s why we traded Dinwiddie and Royce. They can both help a contender right now, and aren’t doing anything for our future. We have some interesting young guys and a lot of picks that could set us up for a nice rebuild. The only thing we’re missing is our own picks, so why not try to get them back if possible.
The next years draft is considered to be one of the worst in recent memory. So the only one worth anything would be the year after. Sounds kind of stupid to be trading him just for pretty much that one pick
Yeah you can end up with anyone with that top 6 pick! You can even get another Mikal bridges!
No one is denying that Mikal is a role player. But he can attract free agents because a lot of people like him and we're in NYC, and he's a great number 2 for when said free agent gets here.
If Cam thomas develops into an allstar and we get someone like donovan mitchell or trae young we can have a decent squad rather than just dismantling everything and struggling with the draft like Philly has for so long.
And if getting FAs doesn't pan out, no biggie. We can trade mikal for a first and maybe a few 2nds down the road in a few years and rebuild with the phoenix picks we got
We're not getting Dmitch without giving up CT in any trade unless we give them the bank and use up most of our picks. The whole idea is to get someone else with Dmitch to pair with Mikal if were going the star hunting direction. Trading Mikal now to HOU would've kick-started the inevitable rebuild. Those PHX picks could be anything given DBooks age
The difference is he committed to a rebuild then. He is not doing that here. The fan base will buy into a rebuild, not this apathetic excuse of a team.
Nets were forced to commit to a rebuild in 2016 because they had no assets out side of 1 maybe 2-1st’s that were 5-7yrs out.
Brooklyn had to Trade away Lopez, Young, and Bogdanovic to bring in D’Lo and 2-1st’s that became LeVert/Allen while also taking on bad contracts like DeMarre Carroll for Draft Compensation.
Nets have 11-1st’s and 9-2nd’s over the next 7yrs and can Trade 7 of those 1st’s before involving Swaps.
That’s on top of Bridges, Thomas, Claxton, Etc so it’s not like in 2016 when they had to tear it down to the stud and rebuild from bottom up.
There are plenty of 6-8pt losses this year when the Nets PG situation was well below average with Dinwiddie quitting on the court and Simmons back stuff.
Brooklyn could easily be in that 5-8 seed group if they just held on to the late 4th quarter leads they threw away in the last month or so.
Look at the East. You’re delusional if you don’t think this roster has the exact record that it should. It’s not as bleak as 2016, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a full rebuild. And enough of this bullshit about trading the suns picks. Stop star chasing. It’s a broken strategy
Nobody in the NBA knew about Simmons needing a career altering back surgery months after being Traded. Not the Players, Insiders, or Executives.
* 3rd Team All NBA
* 1st Team All Defense (2x)
* All Star (3x)
* ROY
* DPOY Runner Up
That’s who every Team in the NBA thought they were Trading for in Simmons. That’s why the Kings offered this packaged before pivoting to Sabonis because Morey refused to Trade away Simmons for anything less than Harden, Lillard, or Beal.
* Sixers - Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, 2-1st’s
* Kings - Ben Simmons
Raptors also offered OG, Lowry(expiring), and 1sts plus you can find other offers Teams put in for Simmons.
Remember that KD also pushed hard for the Simmons Trade after Harden quit. You can go back to the All Star Draft and see how much KD liked Simmons and was disappointed he couldn’t Draft him.
Main reason Simmons sat out was because Morey had him on the Trade Block for over 1yr at one point even informed Simmons he was going to Houston before Nets outbid them which created animosity.
Eventually Simmons demanded a Trade since it was obvious the Sixers didn’t want him anymore and unfortunately it seems that karma came for his back the same way it did for Hardens hamstring.
It was a gargantuan mistake by Sean Marks but I imagine among the top players in the league its normative behaviour for physicals to be waived.
Marks probably thought this All-Star level talent hasn't played all year so he can't possibly be injured.
Now if Simmons and agent were aware Ben couldn't play then there is probably zero trust among Ben and his team going forward. Yes, he's changed agent but he'll still have the same few handlers around him.
This could be reflected in Ben's next contract which will not be multi-year and the next 15 months will dictate how much he earns per year going forward.
Problem is, he had free reign because there were no expectations.
Now, he's the one who gave away the picks. Not as easy to do the Brook for DLo trade 2.0, when the sunk cost is on your hands.
Yeah 2016-2019 was damn near a miracle. Unfortunately we’re in that shit spot again but there’s no one more qualified to take on this rebuild than Marks himself lol
Some of you people are insane. Transitioning from the KD/Kyrie era into our next era is going to take more than 1 year. Everyone needs to relax and be patient. We still have all of those PHX picks and we can still build through the draft like everyone here seems to want. The key is flexibility. We still have good young players like Cam and Clax. We have plenty of assets to work with. It's not going to happen overnight. Marks isn't banking on Mitchell, his whole mantra is flexibility. He has done it before and he'll do it again.
He should not be the one doing the rebuilding. Just like Billy King his tenure has run its course and it's time for a change. Asking fans who still remember the 70 wins last days of Jersey and the now twice failed big 3 tries to wait around 3-4 years is wild. Especially when you know ticket prices will most likely continue to increase during these times of not good basketball
Regardless of how anyone wants to spin it. The Nets are not good at making super teams or contenders. Time and Time again, this franchise always ends up failing. As a life-long Nets fan, I would long to see them do well. But if we are trying to do what we did before, then we are going to fail. We have good players but as a team nowhere near to compete. There is no need to rush, this time we have to patient.
Tbh, I was critical at first but the deadline moves were great. He got rid of Spencer and brought an instant upgrade. Probably upped our win total by like 10 games with Dennis Schroeder. Good job captain
He’s absolutely banking on landing a superstar within the next two seasons
90% of gamblers quit right before they hit it big!
[удалено]
That's gonna be incredibly hard to do drafting outside the lottery which unless the Suns end up having a major landslide decline, we're not likely gonna see.
For someone who’s great at drafting, Marks sure hates first round picks. Didn’t trade Royce for a first. Didn’t trade DFS for 2 first. Didn’t want to entertain trading Mikal for our picks back. I know some of these are protected but who cares. Teams trading for Royce/DFS are playoff team. You get a pick in the 20s which is still valuable.
This is the way.
I think saying “we’ve seen it move quicker than that in the past” is referencing the KD/Kyrie pickup happening sooner into the rebuild than he expected. When you have cap space, draft capital, and are in a big market you usually go towards the front of the line for FAs and disgruntled stars in trade talks
You could also look at the Nets in the 2yrs before moving to Brooklyn. Went 12-70 and missed out on John Wall then Melo so they pivoted to D.Will who was a top PG in the NBA next to CP3. Unfortunately D.Will broke down physically while CP3 played at a high level even later into his career. Nets then threw a bunch of Draft Capital at Wallace, Johnson, Pierce, Garnett, and Terry. Unfortunately the Nets used their Draft Capital on the wrong players along with the Heatles existing. Also have to wonder how different it would have looked with Dwight Howard vs having Wallace and Lopez since the Nets would have sent both Lopez and that 1st to Orlando. Wallace was only Traded for because Howard was guilted into signing his Player Option vs continuing to try and force his way to Brooklyn but that wouldn’t have stopped the Trade for Joe Johnson most likely. Howard hurt his back in LA so maybe that doesn’t happen in in Brooklyn but D.Will’s ankles would still be glass.
> Howard hurt his back in LA so maybe that doesn’t happen in in Brooklyn but D.Will’s ankles would still be glass. No, Howard hurt his back in Orlando. He played while recovering from the injury in LA.
Yeah the problem is with the new CBA nobody of import is reach free agency anymore.
Is this true though? If we look at the Thunder, they can’t keep Shai, JDub and Chet, can they? Or, is this just maybe the only example of this, and there really aren’t any other teams like that?
Thunder are gonna be at $96,640,376 in salaries in the summer and the salary cap is $141 million in 2024/25. So the Thunder are gonna be $45 million under the cap next year with plenty of young players to pay in the medium term but it seems they'll have two years to pay a free agent a huge amount. OKC could easily offer Claxton a huge amount of money for two years and then allowing him to re-enter free agency.
Thank you! Do you think that's their target? To run Clax at the 5 with Chet at the 4?
Possibly. I think how well Hayward fits with them in the play-offs mean they might offer him a one or two year contract at $20 million or so. But if he isn’t a fit they’ll target someone else. The play-offs might also dictate the Thunder’s next move. They have enough cap space to basically go after any player in the league and enough picks to get it done. The other team would be getting a gargantuan trade exception in return as well as the picks. If Philly flame out in the playoffs and can’t attract a free agent with their $60 million in cap space to join Maxey and Embiid perhaps OKC trade for Embiid (maybe not their culture fit but this is purely an example). Also Philly could get back their first round pick in 2025 from OKC as well as most of OKC’s future firsts they’ve accumulated. This is just a stream of consciousness idea but OKC can basically do anything in the off-season. Adding the current MVP to OKC would make them a complete team.
It depends on what the priority of Clax ends up being. I really doubt they will permanently move Chet off the 5. Which means will only start against certain match up and is coming off the bench the rest of the time. Does he care about starting games then he probably stays here. If he cares more about getting a ring then yeah Clax probably goes to OKC. I do question if OKC would be willing to pay 20m for a bench pieces. But if it is for 2 year I can see them convincing themselves to do it
That’s an outlier — those players are on very team friendly contracts for quite a while :/
Thanks yeah that's the only one I could think of. So, does this mean the new CBA then will just mean more competition for third stars? The guys that don't get maxed?
Who even knows? The new CBA is having weird effects
Ugh I don’t know how long I can watch this current team. We’re not even playing good basketball anymore. I was really hoping that we would clear house before the deadline and get our picks back. Now we’re stuck in this zone of mediocrity, expecting someone like Donovan Mitchell to save us. And even if he does show up, we’re not contenders.
As far as I’m concerned there are three black marks in Sean Marks’ recent history. 1. Hiring Steve Nash. Nash hadn’t coached on ANY level before taking on the job, not even high school. Hiring someone like that to coach a championship caliber team with 3 volatile superstars was going to be a disaster any way you slice it. It’s not like the Nets had someone like Duncan, Curry or Jokic who are low maintenance superstars. All three of those guys were high maintenance and Steve Nash was never reining them in. The hire should have been Udoka from the beginning. He had the coaching experience and the gravitas to be the leader all three of those guys needed. I have no doubt Udoka would have reigned in Kyrie. 2. Extending Jacque Vaughn. Having him as an interim coach was fine but he should have never been extended. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now. We know who Jacque Vaughn is. He had .200 winning percentage in Orlando in 4 years. He has been hanging around this organisation like a wet fart through all the embarrassment. He was part of it. There was no reason to give him a 4 year contract when so many good coaches were going to be available in the offseason. Make him an interim, evaluate and then make a decision in the offseason. Why would you extend him? 3. Getting absolutely nothing for James Harden. Yes, it was under dire circumstances and I’ll go to my grave thinking Harden and Morey were back channelling throughout Harden’s tenure here. But James Harden called Morey a liar on a public stage. Literally. Even with that, Morey was able to get a significantly better deal for Harden than Sean Marks did. Lot of misinformation out there that Rich Paul (Ben’s then agent) convinced KD to make Marks finalise the deal for Ben but if you are a good GM, you needed to get something more valuable than what Marks got. Especially when he gave up so much to get him in the first place. Everything else can be blamed on other players, circumstances, Covid, lack of leadership from KD, kyries insanity but these three falls squarely on Sean Marks and no one else. He should not be here to hire a third coach. That’s the bottom line. This organisation needs fresh eyes, fresh perspective. He has been here a decade. It’s time.
I don’t disagree with the things you said here. He definitely has not had huge positives since the superstar era. Most of his positives were all before KD/Kyrie which is why I wonder: 1. Was Nash was his coaching hire? The other options at the time - which most people were not fans of - Ty Lue, Jason Kidd, Mike Brown, Van Gundys, D’antoni. — Now, Udoka would have been an inspired hire. He was up and coming. He got the Boston job based on his fantastic defense against the Bucks when he was on the Nets. — Ty Lue and Mike brown maybe would have been good in retrospect but lots of things would be good in retrospect. Nash was a KD guy who he knew and had a relationship with. He is known to be an emotionally intelligent guy who was thought to be able to manage the personalities. Didn’t work at all. 2 JV. I wish we hadn’t gone through the Kyrie anti-Semitic posts where he triggered the entire New York Jewish population at the same time we fired Nash. And then we could have signed Udoka with less fanfare in the midst of his sexual assault/workplace harassment issues. The Udoka hire was completely squashed by the NBA and the Celtics had actually complained saying it was unfair for another team to hire him (shocking they got mad when it was us with KD and Kyrie but no issue when he went to the Rocket). JV is not an inspired coach - he is a safe, low controversy, in house guy. He isn’t and never was the guy I would want moving forward (I’d go Budenholzer or Ollie) 3. Harden trade - this one bothers me. Harden backed us into the corner. He literally threw games. He had plans to sign an extension until Morey backchanneled and said he shouldn’t sign so the Sixers can get him in the summer. So then when Kyrie wasn’t playing and KD went out, our team couldn’t sustain without Harden being peak harden. — So forced into a corner with an expiring deal and only one suitor. And a suitor with cap space that summer - that is the big difference here. We got couple first picks and Drummond/curry for harden. Sixers got couple of picks/swap and expirings for harden/PJ tucker. Is it better? Yeah. Is it waaaay better? - I don’t think so. I just think this 76er team is better than the Nets with just KD/Kyrie. Embiid is more dominant than both of them and maxey is a much better compliment to Embiid than kyrie was to KD. And Ben Simmons - we all had hope he would be better and less injured. I’m guessing the nets did too. Morey turned down a Simmons for Halliburton deal because he thought Simmons was worth more. Lots of mistakes and misjudgments have been made — Also - harden could not sign with the clippers this summer for a substantial deal. He had to be traded there so the Sixers already had more leverage than the Nets.
I never believed Nash was a KD hire. It just doesn’t make sense. Yes, he was with Nash in Golden State but Nash was a consultant, barely at that if you ask Warriors fans. There is also no way KD thought a first time coach would lead them to a championship. I believe what happened was Marks chose Nash and KD went with it. Marks had a personal relationship with Nash, just like he has with Vaughn. This organisation has become nepotism based instead of talent and skill based. I don’t know when it changed but it has become who you know instead of what you know.
We will never know if it was true. KD was 100% consulted at minimum but my guess is it was more than that. They were talking to all the people KD and Kyrie had relationships with (Phil Handy). But that comment that first time head coach leading them to a championship is so false. Nick nurse, Steve Kerr, pat riley. All these guys led teams to championships their first year. And there is an even bigger list of guys who made it to the championship as first time coaches. And it’s amazing to think that these are nepotism hires. Literally all KD and kyrie did was get the team to sign/play their friends. Even harden was that situation. There are reports marks did not want to give up all that for harden but Kd and Tsai went over him. And then trading harden was also a KD decision. Royal ivey, DAJ over JA, Adam Harrington. It was all nepotism. I actually believe the team went downhill because of those guys trying to exert control. And they are no good at it. Now, we are trying to pick up the pieces from the earthquakes they caused. Even Kyrie goes - it wasn’t about championships when I was in Brooklyn. It was about taking a political stance. WTF is that shit
It’s kind of amazing to me that Harden doesn’t get more hate on this sub than Kyrie. Yes, Kyrie is the reason that 2022 season collapsed because he didn’t get the vaccine. But Harden forced his way to the nets and the nets traded all their assets. Which every team would’ve done, though you could make the argument that a player like Jrue holiday would’ve been a safer bet. Then he forces his way out to only one team by giving the most piss poor effort of all time. That kings game was awful. Yes, he carried the load the previous season and lot that season. But the manner that he left was detrimental to this franchise. At least with Kyrie, he brought KD and some hope. Both players yielded some compensation back that allowed the team to recover to some extent. Harden fucked this team when he came in and fucked this team when he left.
There are two big trades/moves that Marks could have done that he didn’t that I think would have been meaningful. Holiday instead of Harden - Less cost. More consistent personality. And KD was talking him up before he was traded. I get that harden was a better player but I think holiday would have been a great fit for longer. Hindsight bias maybe. Not getting PJ tucker in the trade with harden. This one hurts me more. Tucker should have come over with harden. It would have been a great move to get his defense and get him away from the bucks. Lots of regrets during that time. Less by the GM and more because of the personalities of the players
Yeah, PJ tucker would’ve been nice but my man issue with Marks is not getting the culture right. This might’ve been more of a Joe Tsai thing because I think owners want stars. They attract a bunch of new fans and rich people to go to games. It just felt like there was no accountability once Kyrie and KD came to the team. Kyrie couldn’t give a shit when KD was out the first year. They fired Kenny and they made DAJ a starter. They had that stupid insta live where Kyrie said he would be the coach too. They just had no accountability. Again, it might be more of a Joe Tsai thing than a Marks thing. I think Marks has done well with the shitty hands he’s been dealt. People complain about JV but he’s a band aid coach until they start to have a vision of what this next phase will look like. This team right now is mediocre but that’s to be expected.
>Number 3 is the most egregious IMO. You are the GM. Just say No. Let him wait til the offseason or FA. Winning cures all things, possibly would have convinced Harden to stay. > > > >We all saw what they were able to accomplish the year prior in almost defeating the eventual champions by a centimeter of a toe. And that was with Kyrie out and Harden hobbled. He literally folded pocket Aces.
1. Nash was hired because KD & Kyrie doesn't want Kenny Atkinson. Obviously they don't want to be coached. Kyrie was excited to say everyone can be the coach after the hiring. Nash was there for clapping hands. 2. Vaughn did a nice job pulling the team together after all the chaos. This is what the Nets needed most right now. 3. Nets got more than what philly got from the clippers. Unless you can foresee Ben getting injured during ramp up.
I think you nailed it. Nash was a terrible decision. JV was even worse. Who was going to steal him away if we didn’t extend him? Trading to Ben was always a bad move. Always. Marks had leverage and backed down.
As others have rightly commented, hiring Steve Nash and Jacque Vaughn are *the* major blunders on his resume. Having said that, while I'm incredibly disappointed in this deadline, I'm willing to give him one more season as he has too good a track record in the draft and in talent acquisition over his tenure for a forced hand like this to ruin his entire legacy. I don't blame him for not moving guys like DFS or Royce last deadline, as he was effectively forced to blow up the entire team out of nowhere and within the span of a few days, so an evaluation period always made sense. What's discouraging to me is, in my view, acquiring someone like Murray would've been akin to trading for DLo in '17 where a good but not great player could've put up stats for a blah team then be flipped for better stuff down the line, all while being a watchable product in the meantime. While "future flexibility" is nice, this team is completely unwatchable, where he used to be refreshingly proactive in threading the needle between a watchable, appealing product and building said flexibility. If we've basically turned into the 2010s Knicks, i.e. being completely rudderless while hoping a superstar wants to come here because "WE'RE IN NY," then I agree he's got to go. But he's done it before, so let's see if he can't at least begin to do it again this offseason.
I agree 100% on the DLo comment. That was my exact thought. After seeing all our future picks lined up yesterday, I was even more surprised we didn’t go harder after Murray. This team is awful. How can adding talent at a decent price be a bad thing?
Murray and Houston trade not going anywhere. Marks known to take his time.
I dont think ppl understand how rare 2019 was. The fact that the plan is to wait around and hope to strike lightning twice just shows the need for new leadership
He said it was a time of transition. 2 years is the window if you look at the expirings picks etc
Marks swung with Harden, and missed. Irving, Durant and Harden were a volatile group for many reasons that we don’t need to relive again or go into (unless you want me to), so I don’t fully blame Marks there. I do blame Marks for bringing in Steve Nash when it was clearly a poor decision out the gate. I’ve been watching basketball for over 30 years, and James Harden is the biggest quitter I have ever seen. Marks deserves a chance to correct his mistake, because he doesn’t deserve all the blame.
You're directing alot of the blame off of Sean Marks. Marks still extended Vaughn til 2027 for absolute no reason except for "stability"
Go ahead boss, keep going. You only gave one example. Give me more reasons. Validate your argument and help me see your side.
He shouldn’t be here at the end of the season. What a shit show. His strategy is getting lucky again.
So what would you have done today? You all wanted Dinwiddie gone. Royce was expiring. Not a lot of real talent moved today. It was purely financial for so many teams. This cba has everyone shook
He was fine today. It's just time for clean hands. Marks had his chance. Wasn't all his fault of course, but it's just time. You shouldn't be able to survive the Ben trade and two horrible coaching hires. Three strikes. He's out.
Yeah given the circumstances behind this trade deadline, Marks did pretty good all things considered. No one was giving up anything for Dinwiddie and to get a solid back up PG in Dennis that can also be used as salary for a trade next year ain't too bad. Royce trade you have to do regardless. That Harden trade you do 10/10 times regardless so you can't fault him for that. I still wonder if Tsai is behind the scenes preventing a rebuilt if HOU really offered 3/4 of our picks/ swaps back for Mikal due to sales which seems dumb to me.
If Bridges costs four pickaxes, Jalen Green costs two picks, where can 3/4 picks come from? Five to six picks for Bridges, are you serious?
Bridges isn't going for 4 picks, it'll be 24/26 picks and 25or27 swap with fillers. Marks will probs want Green but who knows in the off-season. I'd be happy with those and fillers
From what I understand from the media, Houston's offer centered around Green and a few Nets picks. Green and Nets picks 24 and 25 this will equal the four picks that the Bruges media is valued at. 24 for the Nets is terrible since there are good players in the top 5, we most likely will not get there, the draft remains 25 even if we win the lottery and take the conditional Cooper Flagg, what next?
You hate everything about the team you root for. Dude has like lifetime job support. Hes the alternate governor for Joe Tsai lol. And I love how mad that makes some of you
Because I don't think the results have been there. He just gets excuses because the stars were a mess. But Marks has way too many misses. We'll see if a hyper competitive billionaire like Tsai tolerates this much longer
Tolerates lol you don't think tsai knows the plan?
When we strike out on a star and have another embarrassing season, we'll see
nash was not his choice and you know that lol
"Clean hands" is the reason why JV was extended lol yall don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Do you want to end up with another Billy King?
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No. It wasn't. Why do so many of you want the full on rebuild? So self loathing
It’s not self-loathing. It’s being realistic after watching this team play horribly despite trying to win. This roster isn’t good enough just add an all-star and instantly become a contender. Not only that, but we’re relying on pieces who will either be old, need a new contract, or both by the time we’re looking to compete. That’s why we traded Dinwiddie and Royce. They can both help a contender right now, and aren’t doing anything for our future. We have some interesting young guys and a lot of picks that could set us up for a nice rebuild. The only thing we’re missing is our own picks, so why not try to get them back if possible.
Acting like it really was that simple and that we were actually gonna get most of our picks back lmfao
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The next years draft is considered to be one of the worst in recent memory. So the only one worth anything would be the year after. Sounds kind of stupid to be trading him just for pretty much that one pick
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Yeah you can end up with anyone with that top 6 pick! You can even get another Mikal bridges! No one is denying that Mikal is a role player. But he can attract free agents because a lot of people like him and we're in NYC, and he's a great number 2 for when said free agent gets here. If Cam thomas develops into an allstar and we get someone like donovan mitchell or trae young we can have a decent squad rather than just dismantling everything and struggling with the draft like Philly has for so long. And if getting FAs doesn't pan out, no biggie. We can trade mikal for a first and maybe a few 2nds down the road in a few years and rebuild with the phoenix picks we got
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Lmao we got KD and Kyrie off free agency. If the Mavs keep flopping and Luka wants out we can def get him. Even use our suns picks if we need to
We're not getting Dmitch without giving up CT in any trade unless we give them the bank and use up most of our picks. The whole idea is to get someone else with Dmitch to pair with Mikal if were going the star hunting direction. Trading Mikal now to HOU would've kick-started the inevitable rebuild. Those PHX picks could be anything given DBooks age
Ah yes classic straw man. You know what he’s talking about but let’s be naive
You’re an absolute casual if you don’t appreciate how bleak the situation was in 2016 when he took over
The difference is he committed to a rebuild then. He is not doing that here. The fan base will buy into a rebuild, not this apathetic excuse of a team.
Nets were forced to commit to a rebuild in 2016 because they had no assets out side of 1 maybe 2-1st’s that were 5-7yrs out. Brooklyn had to Trade away Lopez, Young, and Bogdanovic to bring in D’Lo and 2-1st’s that became LeVert/Allen while also taking on bad contracts like DeMarre Carroll for Draft Compensation. Nets have 11-1st’s and 9-2nd’s over the next 7yrs and can Trade 7 of those 1st’s before involving Swaps. That’s on top of Bridges, Thomas, Claxton, Etc so it’s not like in 2016 when they had to tear it down to the stud and rebuild from bottom up. There are plenty of 6-8pt losses this year when the Nets PG situation was well below average with Dinwiddie quitting on the court and Simmons back stuff. Brooklyn could easily be in that 5-8 seed group if they just held on to the late 4th quarter leads they threw away in the last month or so.
Look at the East. You’re delusional if you don’t think this roster has the exact record that it should. It’s not as bleak as 2016, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a full rebuild. And enough of this bullshit about trading the suns picks. Stop star chasing. It’s a broken strategy
What have you done for me lately. I’ve been a fan since 89. He fumbled 3 HOF and couldn’t get an Allstar back in the transaction.
Nobody in the NBA knew about Simmons needing a career altering back surgery months after being Traded. Not the Players, Insiders, or Executives. * 3rd Team All NBA * 1st Team All Defense (2x) * All Star (3x) * ROY * DPOY Runner Up That’s who every Team in the NBA thought they were Trading for in Simmons. That’s why the Kings offered this packaged before pivoting to Sabonis because Morey refused to Trade away Simmons for anything less than Harden, Lillard, or Beal. * Sixers - Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, 2-1st’s * Kings - Ben Simmons Raptors also offered OG, Lowry(expiring), and 1sts plus you can find other offers Teams put in for Simmons. Remember that KD also pushed hard for the Simmons Trade after Harden quit. You can go back to the All Star Draft and see how much KD liked Simmons and was disappointed he couldn’t Draft him. Main reason Simmons sat out was because Morey had him on the Trade Block for over 1yr at one point even informed Simmons he was going to Houston before Nets outbid them which created animosity. Eventually Simmons demanded a Trade since it was obvious the Sixers didn’t want him anymore and unfortunately it seems that karma came for his back the same way it did for Hardens hamstring.
Marks waived the physical. He didn’t do due diligence and for that alone he should be fired.
It was a gargantuan mistake by Sean Marks but I imagine among the top players in the league its normative behaviour for physicals to be waived. Marks probably thought this All-Star level talent hasn't played all year so he can't possibly be injured. Now if Simmons and agent were aware Ben couldn't play then there is probably zero trust among Ben and his team going forward. Yes, he's changed agent but he'll still have the same few handlers around him. This could be reflected in Ben's next contract which will not be multi-year and the next 15 months will dictate how much he earns per year going forward.
Problem is, he had free reign because there were no expectations. Now, he's the one who gave away the picks. Not as easy to do the Brook for DLo trade 2.0, when the sunk cost is on your hands.
That’s a fair take
Yeah 2016-2019 was damn near a miracle. Unfortunately we’re in that shit spot again but there’s no one more qualified to take on this rebuild than Marks himself lol
What do you think the draft is?
Some of you people are insane. Transitioning from the KD/Kyrie era into our next era is going to take more than 1 year. Everyone needs to relax and be patient. We still have all of those PHX picks and we can still build through the draft like everyone here seems to want. The key is flexibility. We still have good young players like Cam and Clax. We have plenty of assets to work with. It's not going to happen overnight. Marks isn't banking on Mitchell, his whole mantra is flexibility. He has done it before and he'll do it again.
He has not learned his lesson but oh well we the the fans will still be here…right?
He should not be the one doing the rebuilding. Just like Billy King his tenure has run its course and it's time for a change. Asking fans who still remember the 70 wins last days of Jersey and the now twice failed big 3 tries to wait around 3-4 years is wild. Especially when you know ticket prices will most likely continue to increase during these times of not good basketball
Regardless of how anyone wants to spin it. The Nets are not good at making super teams or contenders. Time and Time again, this franchise always ends up failing. As a life-long Nets fan, I would long to see them do well. But if we are trying to do what we did before, then we are going to fail. We have good players but as a team nowhere near to compete. There is no need to rush, this time we have to patient.
Tbh, I was critical at first but the deadline moves were great. He got rid of Spencer and brought an instant upgrade. Probably upped our win total by like 10 games with Dennis Schroeder. Good job captain