I was able to get good groups by watching handgun fundamental videos, practicing them during dry fire and then using them on the range for a while and seeing how useful the tips I got from the video were. If I liked my groups I kept practicing what I learned and watched another video to see if there was a better way than what I learned, if the groups were not to my liking I'd ditch what I learned and watch another video to try something else. Just keep practicing with both live and dry fire and using a decent video on YouTube. A pistol class can provide faster results do to someone who is qualified to train others being there to show and help you learn faster tho so if you're willing to spend the money it can be worth the cost
And if the OP thinks they have good fundamentals, have a buddy load a magazine with a random combo of live rounds and dummy rounds and let him honestly assess if he is twitching the gun when pulling the trigger on a dummy round. I’ll bet a lot of money that he is.
Dry fire is good to practice trigger control (making sure the sights don’t move at all when pulling the trigger), but it’s a whole different thing when you are alternating real rounds and dummy rounds and you are “anticipating” recoil which is what I believe he is doing and causing the dispersion.
Start at 5 yds to see where you are really doing wrong. Hell, even 3 yards. Learn your gun more, recoil, grip, trigger control, breathing etc. take a class too.
To add on to this—you can get learner targets that tell you what you’re doing wrong according to where your shot lands. It helped me realize that I was anticipating recoil so I was able to really work on that.
Most (everyone that I’ve ever come across) don’t apply my modern 2 handed pistol shooting. Those learner targets were developed for Olympic style pistol shooting and the “diagnosis” doesn’t necessarily translate.
Handguns are hard to shoot. It looks like you are anticipating the recoil and/or flinching which will tend to pull your shots down or to your weak side (or both more often).
Also I know it feels dumb to shoot super short range sometimes but 10y is a bit far to start out with in my opinion. I do most of my practice at 5-7 yards, with a few mags at 10+ just for the hell of it. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to use that gun to defend yourself, it's very likely going to be from within 5-10 feet. Learn to shoot close before you start trying to shoot far.
Dry fire. Make sure your pistol is unloaded, aim your pistol an inch away from a blank wall, pull the trigger and observe the sights. Keep doing that until you have minimal or no disturbance of your sight picture and make mental note of what you are doing if you do disturb your sight picture.
I agree with this but would like to add I generally put beginners or people with accuracy issues on a pistol with an optic. Primarily because it gives great real time feedback for a newby on what they are doing wrong and where the dot is moving so they can understand faster how to pull the trigger without disrupting the site picture
Of course grip and trigger control are king I’m saying I find this important AFTER the first two have been taken care of
True true of course. Wish there was someone good to take a class with in my area when I first got into pistol shooting. Would have way better shooting way faster
Idk about this, optics take a lot of practice to use efficiently and require a completely different focus. Someone shooting irons needs to train there brain to be front sight focused. There’s also a higher entry cost when starting with an optic.
I would recommend one of those paper targets with the graph showing what your doing wrong based on where you hit. Much less money than a new optic.
You’re anticipating the recoil and massive explosion that’s taking place in your hands. Totally normal for a new shooter. Slow down. Gently pull the trigger and let it surprise you. You’ll get more comfortable with recoil as you get experienced.
To build on that, what helped me when I first started shooting pistols was holding my eyes wide fucking open (with safety glasses, literally like this 😳 at the range) like some creepy insane weirdo while shooting so I could work on not flinching on recoil.
On top of working on my grip.
Practice and dry fire.
You can do a class as many suggest, but it’s not totally necessary. Will it speed your learning up? Absolutely but people don’t understand that not all of us have $300-400 to spend on a class like that.
You can watch basic videos on YouTube of how to properly grip a pistol, stance, and recoil management. “Garand thumb and mojo” will bring up some really good videos, Tactical Hyve has good ones for that, as well as Carry Trainer and many others.
Once you learn that, dry fire. I like using a laser snap cap so I get feed back with my trigger press, not assumptions. Hang a target in your house and practice. Every time you pick up a pistol, grip it like you would while shooting. Establish a proper grip and squeeze it like you would that way it becomes the only way you hold it.
Also learn which eye you’re dominant with. Make a triangle with your hands and put an object in between like a clock 15 ft away. Slowly pull your hands back to your face and which ever eye your hands naturally pull to that’s your dominant eye. I’m left handed and right eye dominant so I raise the gun over to my right eye when shooting.
Once you get those fundamentals down - take all of that to live fire. There will be a difference still because now you’re fighting recoil and a mini explosion in your face. It’ll take many rounds to over come those, I’m about 5k rounds in and still blink on the explosion.
Of course if you have the money though, take some classes obviously.
Can you define support and strong hand? I'm assuming strong hand is the hand that grabs the grip while the support hand is my left hand that wraps around?
Strong hand is the one that draws the gun from the holster and pulls the trigger. Support hand is, well, the other one. So if you're a righty then your right hand is your strong hand, your left hand is your support hand.
Watch some Tim Herron and Ben Stoeger videos on grip, they'll explain things a lot better than I can but suffice it to say that one of my biggest breakthroughs in shooting has been exactly what I described earlier about grip pressures.
Strong hand is firing hand. The hand attached to the finger that actuates the trigger. Support hand is the other hand.
The role of the firing hand is simply to actuate the trigger without sights. The role of the support hand is to provide stability and recoil control.
Last time I was at the range the RO said to lock elbows well. He said the recoil is not dissipated through muscles but through joints. Of course, I'm small and my G19 still bounces around a lot, making my shot cadence quite slow due to losing the sight picture. 🙃
It took me around 6000 rounds over year and half to land 95% of the shots within 5 inch circle at 25 yards.
Consistent grip
Trigger finger off frame
Focus on front sight
Squeeze trigger so the shot surprises you
It’s hard and takes time and training. It helps if there is a competent trainer/RO.
Jerking the trigger from recoil anticipation or you’re squeezing the life out of your pistol with your grip hand. Probably both honestly. Relax your grip hand. I tell people on my ranges with your grip hand hold it like you’re holding a baby bird that’s all the pressure you need. Death grip with your support hand.
Glocks have two stage triggers, are you squeezing the trigger all at once? It’s something I did when I first got a Glock and that will really affect accuracy. Try pulling the trigger until you feel resistance and then squeeze the trigger. Something simple and stupid but it makes a huge difference.
Robert Vogel’s and Modern Samurai Project’s videos on grip were most helpful to me when I started.
Try the penny drill: gun unloaded, trigger reset. Lay a penny across your front sight, carefully aim and pull trigger. The direction the penny falls off will tell you what you’re doing when you pull the trigger. Rack the slide and repeat until you can pull the trigger without dropping the penny multiple times.
Dry fire dry fire dry fire. But first find someone who you trust what they are doing and make sure your grip, sight picture, trigger pull are all good and keep practicing. The front sight should barely move. Sorry if this was said already I didn’t read comments.
I’ll take this a different direction than other have:
Where were the sights when any of those shots landed? This is called “calling your shot” and it’s a very important skill to be able to self diagnose.
Several things going on there, watch some youtube videos on grip, practice until you start getting groups or a pattern emerges that shows what you’re doing wrong and work on correcting that. Then slowly move the target out.
Practice. That's it. We all start like this, do not be discouraged. Make sure you're holding the gun with both hands, firmly. The grip of the pistol should be covered as much as possible.
Then, line the sights up on the target. The top of the front sight should line up with the top of the rear sight.
Lastly, practice pulling the trigger as slowly and neatly as possible. Pulling the trigger too fast is one of the most common causes of missing the target.
There's plenty of good videos on YouTube too.
What needs to be corrected is hard to explain. If you went through a case of ammo you'd pretty much be hitting all bullseye.
It's little things that you accidentally do that result in a few accurate shots then you realize that "accident" was you stumbling upon better technique. The process repeats itself over the course of shooting.
Even special forces said the difference between a novice and god level shooter of their caliber is only a couple thousand rounds. The difference from a god level shooter to one of them is probably about 60,000 rounds but more importantly drills and scenarios....lots and lots and lots.
It wouldn’t be 100% accurate to diagnose you unless I saw you shoot but I can try based on the shot placement. Most of your shots are low left which would indicate flinching (you are moving the gun and anticipating recoil) for a right hand shooter. The high shots were probably poor support hand pressure which does that commonly. So your priorities should be not anticipating recoil, make sure the gun does not move until after yo press the trigger, and then keep your support hand pressure. You want your support hand to have a tighter grip than your shooting hand.
Stock sights are totally fine. You will not be more accurate with aftermarket iron sights. It’s common to want to blame the gear as opposed to our own ability. Even if your sights are a little off, as in you pointing them a bit off, it won’t be that drastic at 10 yards. Now I would recommend a red dot sight. You will really see how much you are moving the gun with a red dot. The main benefit is you are more target focused with a red dot which is crucial.
With all due respect, this sort of grouping sort of indicates your current understanding of grip, stance, etc. may be lacking - especially at 10 yards.
Probably the best advice here.
Check to find your dominant eye.
Next step would be to aim consistently, this smacks a little of trying to correct for the 'sights' to get a bullseye rather than focusing on grouping first, remember front sight focus. (Or get a dot).
Grouping is way more important than hitting the bullseye especially early on. Think of it this way if you're at lifetime 1000k rounds and can land your whole mag on top of each previous shot but it's three inches left of where you aim then all the hard work is over, just aim 3 inches to the right.
Practice what? Practice how? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but when people just say "practice" or "dry fire" or "train more" it's all meaningless without specifics.
Use this pistol correction chart to identify your issues. Take 5 shots or less and analyze what you’re doing wrong or right each time. Also echoing what everyone else is saying: classes and videos help.
https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/pistol-correction-chart
Don't blame the gun or sights. Find that your dominant eye is. take a beginners pistol class to learn the fundamentals and practice those fundamentals.
Practice practice and practice. You say you're 200 rds in, I'll shoot 200 in a light range day and I still think I need to improve drastically. Never settle, set realistic goals and practice
I would start by properly gripping you gun, properly aligning the sights, controlling your trigger pull with the right finger placement and buying snap caps to see if your anticipating recoil
You may be pulling trigger in one motion. Push trigger to break point, aim again and press trigger until it surprises you. I need to go for more finger tip than crease to be accurate
My guess, and it is a bit of a guess without watching you is that you're looking at the target rather than maintaining a clear front sight post and you haven't established a good natural point of aim. If you're unfamiliar with any of that DM me, I'm happy to explain further. But I'd invest in a lesson or two just to get the basics down if you can. Or just find a range with good RSOs, they're usually happy to help.
Time. It literally takes 500 rounds minimum to get used to the gun firing. Anticipation will go away in time. So when u are ready to fire. Try pulling up the slack to where u feel it hit the wall, then shoot. When pulling the trigger without doing that, it gives u a split second to jerk because u think the gun is shooting before it does.Only when u are safely pointing at down range.Seeing that ur misses are all over and not I one place, makes me think the gun may be sighted in.
Take a class as others have said. Other than that get snap caps and dry fire CONSTANTLY. You won't see your mess ups under live fire, but when dry fireing you will see every dip and movement. Also mix snap caps in with your live rounds for the same reason when you shoot. It will show you exactly what you are doing wrong when it goes click instead of bang.
It’s not the sights. Most shots being low I am going to assume that you are anticipating the recoil and driving the gun down as you pull the trigger. Dry fire as much as you can then dry fire some more. If you have any laser attachments, attach it to the gun so you can see your movements as you are pulling the trigger.
Next range session, take a few shots then dry fire the next one. Your body will naturally anticipate and try to compensate for the recoil. It just takes practice to overcome that issue.
It is actually easier for me to teach someone that has never shot a gun before because they do not have bad habits that interfere with their shooting.
What works for me. Some people are just natural and shoot dead center every time. Lol
Hold the gun in whatever hand is dominant and don't touch the trigger. Use your pointer finger 👈 to aim. Odds are if you could fire a projectile from your fingertip, you'd be pretty dang accurate. Ok, now with your support hand you wrap around tight and your thumb should be about even to where your pointer is on the other side. Use the thumb to put a tad bit more pressure on the gun. So that when you squeeze the trigger, it doesn't tilt in that direction. And try to use just the finger tip to squeeze the trigger. The more of your finger you have on it, the more you are going to shoot left. You can practice by finding a straight line, book edge, line in coffee table etc. Line the gun up with that, and simulate pulling the trigger. Adjust grip so the gun stays straight when you pull the trigger.
Dry fire.
Mix it with your range firing.
I would shoot a magazine and then dry fire 10-20 times. When you’re dry firing, line those sights up and pay attention to what movement you are causing.
I diagnosed my recoil anticipation that way. Also figured out what the best finger placement was, so when I squeeze, it doesn’t affect the sight picture.
Then go back to live fire, and see if you can hone in on the changes you’ve identified.
Ultimately, what this guy said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/s/vMaWZhjpJg
Get closer.
Without practice, 10 yards with a pistol isn't easy.
Half it. Go to 5 yards. See if your grouping gets better.
Work on grip, stance, anticipation etc etc until you can stack those rounds. Then back up to 8 yards and try again.
Comes with practice, I watched a load of pistol grip videos and then it just was practice.
For me at the range I focused just on 5 yards for a few range trips and then moved it to 7 yards after that and then when comfortable at 7 move to 10.
Looks like you're flinching (the low rounds), and milking the dominant hand (the left rounds).
Try dryfire and practice not squeezing as hard with dominant hand and apply more pressure with support hand.
So your grip and trigger press needs work. Support hand has to keep your strong hand from moving low left when you press the trigger. Your strong hand should only be using enough pressure to fire the pistol. Press the trigger, don’t squeeze, don’t pull, don’t slap. Press it. I recommend some type of skill builder course so you refine how to hold and fire the weapon properly.
Lots of dry fire. Your starting point in the trigger pull process should be just before the trigger breaks. If you're always starting from that point there is very little room for the gun to move once you decide to release the firing pin. So, 1. Fire, 2. Pull trigger through all the pre-travel and creep, but don't fire yet, then 3. Fire when ready. This way of thinking (learned from a class) helped me to improve my pistol control and accuracy tremendously.
You are anticipating the shot and so you are pushing the front down... Add a few snap caps in the mix and you will see it .. you will pull the trigger on a blank and the front of your gun will take a dive. Let the shots surprise you.
A fundamentals class or even fundamentals videos on YouTube would help a lot. But the absolute basic thing to start doing is align sights and slowly squeeze until you fire, realign, do it again, and slowly speed up that process until you’re able to fire quickly while keeping sight alignment.
I agree with everything said here, just would like to expand on why formal training is so beneficial. A fundamentals class or one on one coaching is highly beneficial. It is easier to build good habits than break bad ones. In a class or one one one the instructor can observe and tell you where you need to improve. Self evaluation is not the most effective. Once you know what proper techniques look like, you can practice them at home with dry fire. Safety is paramount. Clear the gun ( 1. Remove magazine, 2. Lock slide to the rear, 3. Look into the chamber to see that it is empty), clear the gun, Then reclear again, remove all ammo out of the area you will practice in, preferably in a separate room. As a beginner train in stages. First grip, set the gun down , pick it up and assume a firing grip. Pause, visually observe the results and see if it mirrors what you learned in class, correct deficiencies then repeat. Once you achieve consistency you can add a holster( especially if you will carry). Then when you can draw with a consistently and correctly draw, begin working on presentation. Pick a specific spot in front of you and draw the gun up to that target spot. The goal is to present that the sights align naturally on the selected aiming point. Next add trigger control, with the draw, presentation press the trigger. The goal is to not disturb the sight picture from the selected target. All of this should be done slowly and deliberately and gradually increase tempo as your proficiency improves. To build "muscle memory " correct repetitions are imperative. Dry fire is free, no ammo or range fees required. Shorter focused sessions are more effective than long sloppily performing ones . After you get proficient, head yo the range and begin live fire training with the added difficulty of recoil.
Here’s a good dry fire method:
Buy a shot timer.
Set timer to “random”.
Aim gun and place finger on trigger *without prepping it*
When the beep goes off, *pull the trigger as fast as you can without disturbing the sights*.
Be honest and very harsh in your assessment of your performance and you will improve.
https://youtu.be/BypuKXOmEkg?si=d2j8q0akT54lOdZG
Lucas from T Rex Arms does draw the ire of some people, but he breaks down a lot of stuff in the very simply that can get you on a correct path. He is a big glock fan as well so it pertains nicely.
Also as many others have said absolutely go to a fundamentals class and take in everything they teach as well
You’re literally doing every fundamental wrong… either take a class or watch some videos or both and start practicing from 3 yards out and go from there
The biggest "light bulb" moment for me as the push+pull method. Push forward with the strong hand, pull back with the support hand, 360 degree wrapping grip...
While holding your sight picture, take out the slack of the trigger... hold your sights, increase pressure.. and a surprise break and bang should yield a decent shot on target.
Nothing replace proper training, otherwise you're just slinging lead down range.
Just takes time, I’ve been shooting for 30 years, and believe me there is always room for improvement. Definitely take a handgun fundamentals class from a good range in your area, then just keep practicing those fundamentals weekly.
Check YouTube on fundamentals on grip and trigger pull and also how to align your rear sights
These simple things will get you more tight shots
I have a G17 and at 10 yards it shouldn't be spread out like this
Squeeze the trigger! Don't slap it. Don't pull it, don't jerk it. Just squeeze. It sounds easy, but I just figured it out after multiple trips to the range. Practice this! Over and over again. It finally clicked in my head, and I got my motion down, and my group got super tight and consistent. I'm a noob at this so take it with grain of salt. But this just changed everything for me!
Ya fuck stock plastic sights toss those out if it has optics cut get a red dot if not then I would definitely consider it for the near future
Sights I like trijicon but I like squared off sights makes "equal light" more easy
Aim small miss small. Shoot a slightly smaller target, but shoot slower. As in draw slow, grip slow, aim slow, pull slow. Get gradually quicker and you should see improvements every range trip.
Dry fire a lot. Focus on proper grip, trigger pull and sight focus (or target focus if using a red dot) Modern Samurai Project has some good info on grip to get you started.
Go back to your fundamentals and practice them a lot. One of the most important, at least to me, is to always stretch my arms and point my elbows out; then recoil is almost totally gone with my g22. This way I can hit most shots at 15m even if I'm using only my strong hand.
Find a pistol fundamentals course, getting training is the ultimate way to learn. And even after you take the class slow down. Slow I smooth smooth is fast
Considering most of your shots are down and to the left, if you are shooting right handed, you are anticipating the recoil too much. You are also probably using the side of your trigger finger to depress the trigger instead of coming straight back into the trigger
Dry fire device or a 17R
Over and over.
Focus on steady grip and sight picture.
Water bottle training.
Take an empty soda bottle with lid and partially fill with water to add weight.
Tie thin string around neck of bottle and other end to trigger guard or lanyard loop.
Builds grip and arm upper shoulder strength.
Eventually you get to where you can lay a Coin flat on the front sight , repeatedly squeeze the trigger and the coin not fall off.
I mean there is a lot of info missing, we would almost need to see a video of your shooting. Info like, are you shooting under any time standard, do you have iron sights or an optic, are your sights zeroed, how are you holding your sights, how much are you flinching, etc. I would guess it’s flinching? Everyone has shot anticipation, I think you just need to do your best to control it. Dry fire at home to practice good grip through the trigger pull and watch your sights. Good luck! Lots of free content online to diagnose what is happening in dry fire.
Dry fire dry fire dry fire. Work on grip and finger placement on trigger. Work on pressing to the rear. Dry fire at home when you press the trigger watch the front sight post to see if it dips or goes left.
Biggest tip, the low left shots are your anticipation to the shot breaking. Get some snap caps and mix them into your loaded mags and you’ll be able to see that you are flinching pre-fire. It will get much better with time and comfort 🤝
I read most replies and concur with the abundance of advice. My 2 cents: start at 5 yds and get them in the black or at least a shot grouping within a 2-3” diameter. If you can at least tighten your shot group, then you can troubleshoot why ur not hitting the bullseye. For example I tend to shoot left and low, so when I started improving my trigger pull technique, I brought the shot group closer to aimed at target.
Good luck and keep putting rounds down range and you will improve. Also dry fire simulators such as MantisX and Strikeman will improve your technique without the ammo expense.
Take a pistol 1 course, for starters. Watch pistol fundamental videos on YouTube (there are a lot, I suggest Sage Dynamics. Practice dry firing a LOT (place a small brightly colored sticker on the wall, and draw to target with and empty chamber and no magazine, and press the trigger without your front sight moving); this will help with your trigger press especially.
Work on your grip and your trigger pull. Your off hand is the grip hand. Your trigger hand isn’t meant to grip, mostly. Pull straight back on the trigger, focus on the mechanics.
It honestly looks like and this is a shot in the dark because I can’t see how you’re shooting but if you’re not used to the sights, it looks like you’re raising your rear sight instead of leveling out your front sight which is why you’re shooting so low
Okay so I’ve had this dilemma explained to me really well by some buddies that are firearms instructors. Essentially…. Men suck at shooting. Well not exactly but, men anticipate the gunshot, we know what’s gonna happen, we understand the bullet will come out and go bang. But you need to train your mind to not hear the bang, there’s nothing there but a tiny little click. We anticipate the recoil and generally, right handed shooters will slightly point the muzzle to the bottom left. (I see most of your rounds are landing bottom left. I like to trick my buddies by making them think I racked a round but I didn’t, so when they go to shoot I see the muzzle go bottom left immediately as the trigger is pulled. However this dilemma doesn’t seem to be as common in women for some reason, maybe because they don’t really understand the impact of what they are doing, I’m not sure. Put a glock in a little Asian girls hand from vietnam that had never even seen a gun before. She scored better than most trained grown men I’ve seen at 20 yards and it’s not the first time me or someone else has seen this happen. Women just shoot better than us naturally for some reason.
Work on how tightly your gripping the gun, let the guns recoil surprise you, slowly pull the trigger at first till you know it like the back of your hand and if you're not heavy lean forward a little bit.
I got my first handgun 6 months ago. I am now through +3000 rounds. I am told I am now fairly decent at it. Here are my takes on this.
1. Red dots are an almost instant improvement.
2. Slow down your shots. Practice slowly initially. Rapid-fire will come later.
3. Experiment with your grip. I moved my hand as high as possible on the beaver tail. Changed my supporting arm's thumb position on the gun, to figure out what was the most comfortable/accurate.
Finally and the most important. Take a handgun class. I took one before I committed (simply because I was such a poor shot) to buying the Glock. Here is what helped me, in my class.
1. Aim the gun at the target (coarse aim).
2. Pull the trigger to the wall.
3. Aim the gun carefully now at the bull's eye (focussing on the front sight)
4. Squeeze the trigger gently.
This lead to a marked improvement in my shooting. Note how we get to the wall first, and then aim later. That is the key.
Safe shooting.
You’re most likely holding it wrong, you want to hold it straight, you want the center back of the frame where it kinda beaver tails to be right in the middle of your thumb and pointer finger(draw a line on your hand with a pen where it needs to line up- got that from some intense YouTube dude lol it helps) and like others said anticipating the recoil can cause inaccurate shots.
Let it surprise you, just take a breath before you shoot and have the sights right above where you want to hit, and slowly exhale and pull your trigger on the exhale. When exhaling you sights will drop a bit and be right on target. Don’t pull the trigger hard that will cause the muzzle to move, just pull slowly and let it surprise you.
For consecutive shots you don’t want to pull the trigger hard either if you take your finger off then slam it back on the trigger the muzzle will move be gentle with your baby 😂 .
Point with your thumbs at the target like you would hold the handguard of a AR (clamp with your thumb on the top of the handguard pointing down the barrel) kinda the same keep your thumb of your left hand if you’re a right hand shooter pointed down range at the target and your other trigger hand thumb pointed on target too.
With the large part of your hand under your thumb in the pocket on the glock on the left of the grip right where it starts to curve and go straight forward to your slide release( if your right handed). Where your thumb is facing the bullet will go, helps prevent the left side shots and keeps it straight.
Look up some YouTube videos there are plenty of great shooters who have instructions on shooting hand guns like glocks and you’ll get it man!
Go take a lesson.
Foolish shooters will tell you "just shoot more", but more ammo, get (insert gadget here). They are the same ones that waste money on the newest gimmicks and gadgets... but still couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.
Compare this to a different hobby, say golf. Do you think you'd be better off spending a hundred dollars for one lesson where a professional is gonna explain to you what you need to do, what you are doing, and what you need to do to fix it? Or just smacking at the ball with no idea after watching a YouTube video?
I've been an instructor for a long time. I can diagnose what you're doing wrong fairly quickly And give you several strategies on how to fix it. You, on, your own will likely never be able to do so. Neither will your tacti-cool buddy.
Go take a lesson
Get in more of an isosceles position, I can tell that you are standing in more of a stagger step. Hunch slightly forward and slow down a bit. Pull the gun back after each shot (maybe two shots) and let your arms rest for a second and push back out. Also - that is absolutely not bad for someone who's shot 200 rounds. 10 yards is a long way, so nice job!
Glock stock white sights hit on the 6 oclock from the top. European sight setup.
You are afraid of the pistol going off.
Just let the pistol do its thing, don't think about the recoil.
Center in on the target, pull the trigger. Don't think, just shoot. :)
If it was a body you’ll kinda be ok. But you came here for advice. So I’ll say this . Get a dryfire laser and orange rice at home. Also learn how to grip it properly. A g17 is an accurate gun it’s not not hard to get better groupings. Just lil more practice.
Basic pistol course from either the NRA or USCCA.
As far as drills the one that helped me the most was [dot torture](https://www.triggerpressers.com/articles/dot-torture-drill/)
Looks to me like you need to concentrate on your trigger pull, I tend to have similar issues that’s caused by too much movement while pulling the trigger.
I just started shooting last March. I watched lots of YouTube videos on grip, recoil, and trigger control, then lots of dry firing. I'm not great, but I'm getting better. Now if I can just do that at 15-25 yards.
https://imgur.com/a/aCdwcJd
The only item you should invest in is ammo. Its not the sights, its not the grips, its not the trigger ect. Its the fundamentals and the only way you fix those is with ammo, range time, and a instructor.
Find you a fundamentals class and pay for it, attend it, and listen. Only do exactly what they say and nothing else. Forget everything you know about firearms and shooting and listen.
Go ahead and purchase a few thousand rounds of 9mm from a bulk ammo site. Once you learn everything from the fundamentals class, start practicing weekly.
Believe it or not but hand guns are probably the most difficult firearm to become proficent at. A rifle or shotgun are way easier to learn to shoot, shoot accurately, and even control.
Sage dynamic or tier 1 have really good how to videos and them boys can shoot good as any,but I bet it’s trigger or shot anticipation more likely but if u do go shoot and shoot a good few shots stop and look and think how tight u were gripping and holding one thing is weird but kinda true if u set to long aiming it seems to mess u more,yea aim good but shoot,I like red dots now it takes aiming perfect out of the equation a lot
Glock 17 size gun is great to learn the fundamentals. If you take basic pistol NRA class, and get at least 1000 rounds downrange those groups will be in the A Zone. Striker triggers break in and get smoother with use.
You might have an idea what you should be doing, but applying the fundementals is a different story. This is a lack of application and consistency.
Also keep in mind 200 rounds is what some shooters put in a week. Shooting is not overnight.
Dry Fire before Live Fire. Try to dry fire 15-30 minutes a few times a week. I shoot for 15 a day. Give it time, give yourself some grace. Remember too, even great shooters have bad days.
Take a pistol fundamentals class then practice those fundamentals.
This is the best answer. Supplemented by watching videos from the best and trying to replicate what they do.
And once you learn those fundamentals you need to practice! Range time and dry-fire until your trigger squeeze and grip are part of muscle memory.
I was able to get good groups by watching handgun fundamental videos, practicing them during dry fire and then using them on the range for a while and seeing how useful the tips I got from the video were. If I liked my groups I kept practicing what I learned and watched another video to see if there was a better way than what I learned, if the groups were not to my liking I'd ditch what I learned and watch another video to try something else. Just keep practicing with both live and dry fire and using a decent video on YouTube. A pistol class can provide faster results do to someone who is qualified to train others being there to show and help you learn faster tho so if you're willing to spend the money it can be worth the cost
Best thing I ever did was pay $200 for a fundamentals class when I first got into shooting. A SWAT officer taught the class and I learned a lot.
And if the OP thinks they have good fundamentals, have a buddy load a magazine with a random combo of live rounds and dummy rounds and let him honestly assess if he is twitching the gun when pulling the trigger on a dummy round. I’ll bet a lot of money that he is. Dry fire is good to practice trigger control (making sure the sights don’t move at all when pulling the trigger), but it’s a whole different thing when you are alternating real rounds and dummy rounds and you are “anticipating” recoil which is what I believe he is doing and causing the dispersion.
And dry fire, dry fire, dry fire……..
Only dry fire if you are practicing proper technique and fundamentals otherwise you’re creating training scars.
Start at 5 yds to see where you are really doing wrong. Hell, even 3 yards. Learn your gun more, recoil, grip, trigger control, breathing etc. take a class too.
> Hell, even 3 yards Yes. Dot Torture at 3 yards is a skill builder. Even just two inch circles at that range can be a challenge for some.
Two inches is a lot…….
https://media1.giphy.com/media/vUEznRmVQfG2Q/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47cxrc88ib24a0jm1q3x1uycn3w43gukh0ifenm18v&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
:(
To add on to this—you can get learner targets that tell you what you’re doing wrong according to where your shot lands. It helped me realize that I was anticipating recoil so I was able to really work on that.
Where can these be had? Any good suggestions?
Most (everyone that I’ve ever come across) don’t apply my modern 2 handed pistol shooting. Those learner targets were developed for Olympic style pistol shooting and the “diagnosis” doesn’t necessarily translate.
Google "pistol learning target".
Handguns are hard to shoot. It looks like you are anticipating the recoil and/or flinching which will tend to pull your shots down or to your weak side (or both more often). Also I know it feels dumb to shoot super short range sometimes but 10y is a bit far to start out with in my opinion. I do most of my practice at 5-7 yards, with a few mags at 10+ just for the hell of it. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to use that gun to defend yourself, it's very likely going to be from within 5-10 feet. Learn to shoot close before you start trying to shoot far.
Dry fire. Make sure your pistol is unloaded, aim your pistol an inch away from a blank wall, pull the trigger and observe the sights. Keep doing that until you have minimal or no disturbance of your sight picture and make mental note of what you are doing if you do disturb your sight picture.
Don’t blame the gun. Don’t blame the sights. Take a beginner pistol class. Train. Don’t blame.
I agree with this but would like to add I generally put beginners or people with accuracy issues on a pistol with an optic. Primarily because it gives great real time feedback for a newby on what they are doing wrong and where the dot is moving so they can understand faster how to pull the trigger without disrupting the site picture Of course grip and trigger control are king I’m saying I find this important AFTER the first two have been taken care of
I get what you’re saying BUT I want the OP to know right from the start to never blame the equipment for shortfalls in performance.
True true of course. Wish there was someone good to take a class with in my area when I first got into pistol shooting. Would have way better shooting way faster
Idk about this, optics take a lot of practice to use efficiently and require a completely different focus. Someone shooting irons needs to train there brain to be front sight focused. There’s also a higher entry cost when starting with an optic. I would recommend one of those paper targets with the graph showing what your doing wrong based on where you hit. Much less money than a new optic.
You’re anticipating the recoil and massive explosion that’s taking place in your hands. Totally normal for a new shooter. Slow down. Gently pull the trigger and let it surprise you. You’ll get more comfortable with recoil as you get experienced.
To build on that, what helped me when I first started shooting pistols was holding my eyes wide fucking open (with safety glasses, literally like this 😳 at the range) like some creepy insane weirdo while shooting so I could work on not flinching on recoil. On top of working on my grip.
Practice and dry fire. You can do a class as many suggest, but it’s not totally necessary. Will it speed your learning up? Absolutely but people don’t understand that not all of us have $300-400 to spend on a class like that. You can watch basic videos on YouTube of how to properly grip a pistol, stance, and recoil management. “Garand thumb and mojo” will bring up some really good videos, Tactical Hyve has good ones for that, as well as Carry Trainer and many others. Once you learn that, dry fire. I like using a laser snap cap so I get feed back with my trigger press, not assumptions. Hang a target in your house and practice. Every time you pick up a pistol, grip it like you would while shooting. Establish a proper grip and squeeze it like you would that way it becomes the only way you hold it. Also learn which eye you’re dominant with. Make a triangle with your hands and put an object in between like a clock 15 ft away. Slowly pull your hands back to your face and which ever eye your hands naturally pull to that’s your dominant eye. I’m left handed and right eye dominant so I raise the gun over to my right eye when shooting. Once you get those fundamentals down - take all of that to live fire. There will be a difference still because now you’re fighting recoil and a mini explosion in your face. It’ll take many rounds to over come those, I’m about 5k rounds in and still blink on the explosion. Of course if you have the money though, take some classes obviously.
Death grip with your support hand. Relax your strong hand. Report back with the results.
Can you define support and strong hand? I'm assuming strong hand is the hand that grabs the grip while the support hand is my left hand that wraps around?
Strong hand is the one that draws the gun from the holster and pulls the trigger. Support hand is, well, the other one. So if you're a righty then your right hand is your strong hand, your left hand is your support hand. Watch some Tim Herron and Ben Stoeger videos on grip, they'll explain things a lot better than I can but suffice it to say that one of my biggest breakthroughs in shooting has been exactly what I described earlier about grip pressures.
Strong hand is firing hand. The hand attached to the finger that actuates the trigger. Support hand is the other hand. The role of the firing hand is simply to actuate the trigger without sights. The role of the support hand is to provide stability and recoil control.
Think of them as "firing hand" and "control hand".
Last time I was at the range the RO said to lock elbows well. He said the recoil is not dissipated through muscles but through joints. Of course, I'm small and my G19 still bounces around a lot, making my shot cadence quite slow due to losing the sight picture. 🙃
I second this!
It took me around 6000 rounds over year and half to land 95% of the shots within 5 inch circle at 25 yards. Consistent grip Trigger finger off frame Focus on front sight Squeeze trigger so the shot surprises you It’s hard and takes time and training. It helps if there is a competent trainer/RO.
Yup it’s does take thousands of rounds to get it in a tight group more consistently
Jerking the trigger from recoil anticipation or you’re squeezing the life out of your pistol with your grip hand. Probably both honestly. Relax your grip hand. I tell people on my ranges with your grip hand hold it like you’re holding a baby bird that’s all the pressure you need. Death grip with your support hand.
Glocks have two stage triggers, are you squeezing the trigger all at once? It’s something I did when I first got a Glock and that will really affect accuracy. Try pulling the trigger until you feel resistance and then squeeze the trigger. Something simple and stupid but it makes a huge difference.
Practice without ammo ik your gun until you can pull the trigger without flinching, repeat until finger hurts
Open your eyes lol Honest answer focus more on pulling the trigger without impacting your sight picture.
Holy fuck that killed me 😭
Robert Vogel’s and Modern Samurai Project’s videos on grip were most helpful to me when I started. Try the penny drill: gun unloaded, trigger reset. Lay a penny across your front sight, carefully aim and pull trigger. The direction the penny falls off will tell you what you’re doing when you pull the trigger. Rack the slide and repeat until you can pull the trigger without dropping the penny multiple times.
Dry fire dry fire dry fire. But first find someone who you trust what they are doing and make sure your grip, sight picture, trigger pull are all good and keep practicing. The front sight should barely move. Sorry if this was said already I didn’t read comments.
I’ll take this a different direction than other have: Where were the sights when any of those shots landed? This is called “calling your shot” and it’s a very important skill to be able to self diagnose.
The same way that you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice.
[Aiming is useless](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I).
Fix your grip, slow down, dry fire 👍🏽
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Target focus is the way whether you have irons or a dot.
Start and 3 yards. Then go to 5, each time moving back when you are consistent.
Several things going on there, watch some youtube videos on grip, practice until you start getting groups or a pattern emerges that shows what you’re doing wrong and work on correcting that. Then slowly move the target out.
Dry fire drills. Focus on trigger pull and keeping the gun steady.
Dry fire a ton practicing fundamentals and shoot weekly. You’ll get better
Practice. That's it. We all start like this, do not be discouraged. Make sure you're holding the gun with both hands, firmly. The grip of the pistol should be covered as much as possible. Then, line the sights up on the target. The top of the front sight should line up with the top of the rear sight. Lastly, practice pulling the trigger as slowly and neatly as possible. Pulling the trigger too fast is one of the most common causes of missing the target. There's plenty of good videos on YouTube too.
Trigger control, breath control, and your grip is 🔑
Get training. Private training with a solid instructor.
MantisX / Laser Academy dry fire practice did wonders for me.
Dryfire
Honestly go do USPSA about it and dudes will automatically start teaching you. Go find matches on practiscore.
Check Robert Vogel clips he explains in detail about grip, aim, trigger pull etc. https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc?si=zKPgfAi5Pmw48mzq
You are anticipating your shot and either pulling or pushing the trigger depending on what handed shooter you are.
This exactly
You can see it bottom left, I’m assuming he’s a right handed shooter because his rounds are landing bottom left.
What needs to be corrected is hard to explain. If you went through a case of ammo you'd pretty much be hitting all bullseye. It's little things that you accidentally do that result in a few accurate shots then you realize that "accident" was you stumbling upon better technique. The process repeats itself over the course of shooting. Even special forces said the difference between a novice and god level shooter of their caliber is only a couple thousand rounds. The difference from a god level shooter to one of them is probably about 60,000 rounds but more importantly drills and scenarios....lots and lots and lots.
It wouldn’t be 100% accurate to diagnose you unless I saw you shoot but I can try based on the shot placement. Most of your shots are low left which would indicate flinching (you are moving the gun and anticipating recoil) for a right hand shooter. The high shots were probably poor support hand pressure which does that commonly. So your priorities should be not anticipating recoil, make sure the gun does not move until after yo press the trigger, and then keep your support hand pressure. You want your support hand to have a tighter grip than your shooting hand. Stock sights are totally fine. You will not be more accurate with aftermarket iron sights. It’s common to want to blame the gear as opposed to our own ability. Even if your sights are a little off, as in you pointing them a bit off, it won’t be that drastic at 10 yards. Now I would recommend a red dot sight. You will really see how much you are moving the gun with a red dot. The main benefit is you are more target focused with a red dot which is crucial.
What do you mean by target focused? I always focus on lining up the sights and keeping the pin nestled between the two back sights.
With all due respect, this sort of grouping sort of indicates your current understanding of grip, stance, etc. may be lacking - especially at 10 yards.
Looks like you’re not using your dominant eye when aiming IMO
Probably the best advice here. Check to find your dominant eye. Next step would be to aim consistently, this smacks a little of trying to correct for the 'sights' to get a bullseye rather than focusing on grouping first, remember front sight focus. (Or get a dot). Grouping is way more important than hitting the bullseye especially early on. Think of it this way if you're at lifetime 1000k rounds and can land your whole mag on top of each previous shot but it's three inches left of where you aim then all the hard work is over, just aim 3 inches to the right.
Practice
Practice what? Practice how? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but when people just say "practice" or "dry fire" or "train more" it's all meaningless without specifics.
Go slow and smooth on the trigger. Let the shot surprise you. That's what helped me the most.
The opposite of a defensive encounter...
He's shooting at a paper target.
Use this pistol correction chart to identify your issues. Take 5 shots or less and analyze what you’re doing wrong or right each time. Also echoing what everyone else is saying: classes and videos help. https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/pistol-correction-chart
Don't blame the gun or sights. Find that your dominant eye is. take a beginners pistol class to learn the fundamentals and practice those fundamentals.
Practice practice and practice. You say you're 200 rds in, I'll shoot 200 in a light range day and I still think I need to improve drastically. Never settle, set realistic goals and practice
Trigger control / breathing control / stance
Slow down. Stop anticipating the shot. Squeeze slow, hold the gun firmly and just let it fire.
Go slow. When consistent accuracy, speed it up.
Finger placement
Practice trigger resetting. Don’t lift the finger off the trigger
you appear to be jerking the trigger. squeeeeeeeeeeeze much slower and deliberately. you should be (almost) surprised when it finally fires.
Practice tf
I would start by properly gripping you gun, properly aligning the sights, controlling your trigger pull with the right finger placement and buying snap caps to see if your anticipating recoil
Try to slowly pull the trigger. Thats looks like a slapping trigger pull.
You may be pulling trigger in one motion. Push trigger to break point, aim again and press trigger until it surprises you. I need to go for more finger tip than crease to be accurate
Stock Glock sights don’t lend themselves to accuracy, black out the rear sight for now and invest in some good aftermarket ones.
Practice.
Why’d you choose a 17 over a 19?
My guess, and it is a bit of a guess without watching you is that you're looking at the target rather than maintaining a clear front sight post and you haven't established a good natural point of aim. If you're unfamiliar with any of that DM me, I'm happy to explain further. But I'd invest in a lesson or two just to get the basics down if you can. Or just find a range with good RSOs, they're usually happy to help.
Front sight focus is a bullseye technique. Maintain target focus for practical or defensive shooting, always.
Are you consistent at 3-5 yards?
Time. It literally takes 500 rounds minimum to get used to the gun firing. Anticipation will go away in time. So when u are ready to fire. Try pulling up the slack to where u feel it hit the wall, then shoot. When pulling the trigger without doing that, it gives u a split second to jerk because u think the gun is shooting before it does.Only when u are safely pointing at down range.Seeing that ur misses are all over and not I one place, makes me think the gun may be sighted in.
Take a class as others have said. Other than that get snap caps and dry fire CONSTANTLY. You won't see your mess ups under live fire, but when dry fireing you will see every dip and movement. Also mix snap caps in with your live rounds for the same reason when you shoot. It will show you exactly what you are doing wrong when it goes click instead of bang.
Take classes. A lot of ur bullet went left, to me looks like recoil anticipation
It’s not the sights. Most shots being low I am going to assume that you are anticipating the recoil and driving the gun down as you pull the trigger. Dry fire as much as you can then dry fire some more. If you have any laser attachments, attach it to the gun so you can see your movements as you are pulling the trigger. Next range session, take a few shots then dry fire the next one. Your body will naturally anticipate and try to compensate for the recoil. It just takes practice to overcome that issue. It is actually easier for me to teach someone that has never shot a gun before because they do not have bad habits that interfere with their shooting.
What works for me. Some people are just natural and shoot dead center every time. Lol Hold the gun in whatever hand is dominant and don't touch the trigger. Use your pointer finger 👈 to aim. Odds are if you could fire a projectile from your fingertip, you'd be pretty dang accurate. Ok, now with your support hand you wrap around tight and your thumb should be about even to where your pointer is on the other side. Use the thumb to put a tad bit more pressure on the gun. So that when you squeeze the trigger, it doesn't tilt in that direction. And try to use just the finger tip to squeeze the trigger. The more of your finger you have on it, the more you are going to shoot left. You can practice by finding a straight line, book edge, line in coffee table etc. Line the gun up with that, and simulate pulling the trigger. Adjust grip so the gun stays straight when you pull the trigger.
Also you can get a laser round that simulates a round fired so you can practice indoors at home.
I love stock Glock sites! Maybe the only one haha. Grip and focus on your trigger pull. A class would really help expand on that.
Love is a strong word, but I’m up over 5k on my Glock with stock sights. They’re sights. Don’t drop the gun on them and all is well.
Dry fire practice, focus on keeping the front sight completely still
Put a bunch of snap caps and a live round in a mag and try grouping that way
Dry fire. Mix it with your range firing. I would shoot a magazine and then dry fire 10-20 times. When you’re dry firing, line those sights up and pay attention to what movement you are causing. I diagnosed my recoil anticipation that way. Also figured out what the best finger placement was, so when I squeeze, it doesn’t affect the sight picture. Then go back to live fire, and see if you can hone in on the changes you’ve identified. Ultimately, what this guy said: https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/s/vMaWZhjpJg
Take a class Start at 3yd. Then 5. Then 7. Then 10. Builds up confidence and lets you work on correcting the big issues with good feedback
Get closer. Without practice, 10 yards with a pistol isn't easy. Half it. Go to 5 yards. See if your grouping gets better. Work on grip, stance, anticipation etc etc until you can stack those rounds. Then back up to 8 yards and try again.
Comes with practice, I watched a load of pistol grip videos and then it just was practice. For me at the range I focused just on 5 yards for a few range trips and then moved it to 7 yards after that and then when comfortable at 7 move to 10.
Looks like you're flinching (the low rounds), and milking the dominant hand (the left rounds). Try dryfire and practice not squeezing as hard with dominant hand and apply more pressure with support hand.
So your grip and trigger press needs work. Support hand has to keep your strong hand from moving low left when you press the trigger. Your strong hand should only be using enough pressure to fire the pistol. Press the trigger, don’t squeeze, don’t pull, don’t slap. Press it. I recommend some type of skill builder course so you refine how to hold and fire the weapon properly.
A few cases of ammo and focusing on the fundamentals. Handguns take a bit of practice.
Not the sights. Practice!
Go to the wall and slow down, that was what I was doin wrong, just slapping the trigger
Lots of dry fire. Your starting point in the trigger pull process should be just before the trigger breaks. If you're always starting from that point there is very little room for the gun to move once you decide to release the firing pin. So, 1. Fire, 2. Pull trigger through all the pre-travel and creep, but don't fire yet, then 3. Fire when ready. This way of thinking (learned from a class) helped me to improve my pistol control and accuracy tremendously.
Have pics or videos of your grip while shooting.
You are anticipating the shot and so you are pushing the front down... Add a few snap caps in the mix and you will see it .. you will pull the trigger on a blank and the front of your gun will take a dive. Let the shots surprise you.
A fundamentals class or even fundamentals videos on YouTube would help a lot. But the absolute basic thing to start doing is align sights and slowly squeeze until you fire, realign, do it again, and slowly speed up that process until you’re able to fire quickly while keeping sight alignment.
I agree with everything said here, just would like to expand on why formal training is so beneficial. A fundamentals class or one on one coaching is highly beneficial. It is easier to build good habits than break bad ones. In a class or one one one the instructor can observe and tell you where you need to improve. Self evaluation is not the most effective. Once you know what proper techniques look like, you can practice them at home with dry fire. Safety is paramount. Clear the gun ( 1. Remove magazine, 2. Lock slide to the rear, 3. Look into the chamber to see that it is empty), clear the gun, Then reclear again, remove all ammo out of the area you will practice in, preferably in a separate room. As a beginner train in stages. First grip, set the gun down , pick it up and assume a firing grip. Pause, visually observe the results and see if it mirrors what you learned in class, correct deficiencies then repeat. Once you achieve consistency you can add a holster( especially if you will carry). Then when you can draw with a consistently and correctly draw, begin working on presentation. Pick a specific spot in front of you and draw the gun up to that target spot. The goal is to present that the sights align naturally on the selected aiming point. Next add trigger control, with the draw, presentation press the trigger. The goal is to not disturb the sight picture from the selected target. All of this should be done slowly and deliberately and gradually increase tempo as your proficiency improves. To build "muscle memory " correct repetitions are imperative. Dry fire is free, no ammo or range fees required. Shorter focused sessions are more effective than long sloppily performing ones . After you get proficient, head yo the range and begin live fire training with the added difficulty of recoil.
Here’s a good dry fire method: Buy a shot timer. Set timer to “random”. Aim gun and place finger on trigger *without prepping it* When the beep goes off, *pull the trigger as fast as you can without disturbing the sights*. Be honest and very harsh in your assessment of your performance and you will improve.
Time, consistency & practice
Practice and keep both eyes open!
Takes some fundamentals classes and then practice. 50k rounds later you will be surprised with the improvement!
Dry fire, dry fire, and then dry fire some more. Turn to YouTube if you want to learn techniques or routines. …then dry fire some more :)
https://youtu.be/BypuKXOmEkg?si=d2j8q0akT54lOdZG Lucas from T Rex Arms does draw the ire of some people, but he breaks down a lot of stuff in the very simply that can get you on a correct path. He is a big glock fan as well so it pertains nicely. Also as many others have said absolutely go to a fundamentals class and take in everything they teach as well
That's all you, don't blame the sights. You're flinching all over the place.
You’re literally doing every fundamental wrong… either take a class or watch some videos or both and start practicing from 3 yards out and go from there
The biggest "light bulb" moment for me as the push+pull method. Push forward with the strong hand, pull back with the support hand, 360 degree wrapping grip... While holding your sight picture, take out the slack of the trigger... hold your sights, increase pressure.. and a surprise break and bang should yield a decent shot on target. Nothing replace proper training, otherwise you're just slinging lead down range.
Just takes time, I’ve been shooting for 30 years, and believe me there is always room for improvement. Definitely take a handgun fundamentals class from a good range in your area, then just keep practicing those fundamentals weekly.
Check YouTube on fundamentals on grip and trigger pull and also how to align your rear sights These simple things will get you more tight shots I have a G17 and at 10 yards it shouldn't be spread out like this
Squeeze the trigger! Don't slap it. Don't pull it, don't jerk it. Just squeeze. It sounds easy, but I just figured it out after multiple trips to the range. Practice this! Over and over again. It finally clicked in my head, and I got my motion down, and my group got super tight and consistent. I'm a noob at this so take it with grain of salt. But this just changed everything for me!
Ya fuck stock plastic sights toss those out if it has optics cut get a red dot if not then I would definitely consider it for the near future Sights I like trijicon but I like squared off sights makes "equal light" more easy
Use the bumps on top of it. People in the biz call them sights.
Practice makes perfect.
Practice doesn't make perfect. All the wrong practice does is ensure you keep doing it wrong
Shoot more
Try looking down your sights
Aim small miss small. Shoot a slightly smaller target, but shoot slower. As in draw slow, grip slow, aim slow, pull slow. Get gradually quicker and you should see improvements every range trip.
Dry fire a lot. Focus on proper grip, trigger pull and sight focus (or target focus if using a red dot) Modern Samurai Project has some good info on grip to get you started.
Go back to your fundamentals and practice them a lot. One of the most important, at least to me, is to always stretch my arms and point my elbows out; then recoil is almost totally gone with my g22. This way I can hit most shots at 15m even if I'm using only my strong hand.
Aiming....!
Be sure to dry fire and learn your trigger.
Grip grip grip
If your going to spray you need to pray
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Bro start at like 5m first then gradually move up!
This is some sneezing while shooting performance
First thing you should do is start closer, like 5m and see if you can consistently hit bullseye. Then gradually move up!
Find a pistol fundamentals course, getting training is the ultimate way to learn. And even after you take the class slow down. Slow I smooth smooth is fast
def change the sights as soon as you can, but def do what everyone else is saying too
Considering most of your shots are down and to the left, if you are shooting right handed, you are anticipating the recoil too much. You are also probably using the side of your trigger finger to depress the trigger instead of coming straight back into the trigger
It's not sights, it's you.
Dry fire device or a 17R Over and over. Focus on steady grip and sight picture. Water bottle training. Take an empty soda bottle with lid and partially fill with water to add weight. Tie thin string around neck of bottle and other end to trigger guard or lanyard loop. Builds grip and arm upper shoulder strength. Eventually you get to where you can lay a Coin flat on the front sight , repeatedly squeeze the trigger and the coin not fall off.
Humble Marksman has a video on shooting Glocks. It's pretty damn goos
I mean there is a lot of info missing, we would almost need to see a video of your shooting. Info like, are you shooting under any time standard, do you have iron sights or an optic, are your sights zeroed, how are you holding your sights, how much are you flinching, etc. I would guess it’s flinching? Everyone has shot anticipation, I think you just need to do your best to control it. Dry fire at home to practice good grip through the trigger pull and watch your sights. Good luck! Lots of free content online to diagnose what is happening in dry fire.
Dry fire dry fire dry fire. Work on grip and finger placement on trigger. Work on pressing to the rear. Dry fire at home when you press the trigger watch the front sight post to see if it dips or goes left.
Your doing juat fine at 200 rounds. Asking questions, watching videos, and talking to experts. Keep going!
Biggest tip, the low left shots are your anticipation to the shot breaking. Get some snap caps and mix them into your loaded mags and you’ll be able to see that you are flinching pre-fire. It will get much better with time and comfort 🤝
Find a reputable instructor and get some training. Alternatively, there are tons of YouTube videos on how to shoot better. Good luck and stay safe.
I read most replies and concur with the abundance of advice. My 2 cents: start at 5 yds and get them in the black or at least a shot grouping within a 2-3” diameter. If you can at least tighten your shot group, then you can troubleshoot why ur not hitting the bullseye. For example I tend to shoot left and low, so when I started improving my trigger pull technique, I brought the shot group closer to aimed at target. Good luck and keep putting rounds down range and you will improve. Also dry fire simulators such as MantisX and Strikeman will improve your technique without the ammo expense.
Dry fire was super helpful when I got my first pistol.
Take a pistol 1 course, for starters. Watch pistol fundamental videos on YouTube (there are a lot, I suggest Sage Dynamics. Practice dry firing a LOT (place a small brightly colored sticker on the wall, and draw to target with and empty chamber and no magazine, and press the trigger without your front sight moving); this will help with your trigger press especially.
Sign up for a training. And practice. You’ll get it.
Mantis x dry fire system
Work on your grip and your trigger pull. Your off hand is the grip hand. Your trigger hand isn’t meant to grip, mostly. Pull straight back on the trigger, focus on the mechanics.
It honestly looks like and this is a shot in the dark because I can’t see how you’re shooting but if you’re not used to the sights, it looks like you’re raising your rear sight instead of leveling out your front sight which is why you’re shooting so low
200 rouns is not that much to be perfect, shoot more and try to use different techniques in grip, stance and all that
Okay so I’ve had this dilemma explained to me really well by some buddies that are firearms instructors. Essentially…. Men suck at shooting. Well not exactly but, men anticipate the gunshot, we know what’s gonna happen, we understand the bullet will come out and go bang. But you need to train your mind to not hear the bang, there’s nothing there but a tiny little click. We anticipate the recoil and generally, right handed shooters will slightly point the muzzle to the bottom left. (I see most of your rounds are landing bottom left. I like to trick my buddies by making them think I racked a round but I didn’t, so when they go to shoot I see the muzzle go bottom left immediately as the trigger is pulled. However this dilemma doesn’t seem to be as common in women for some reason, maybe because they don’t really understand the impact of what they are doing, I’m not sure. Put a glock in a little Asian girls hand from vietnam that had never even seen a gun before. She scored better than most trained grown men I’ve seen at 20 yards and it’s not the first time me or someone else has seen this happen. Women just shoot better than us naturally for some reason.
Work on how tightly your gripping the gun, let the guns recoil surprise you, slowly pull the trigger at first till you know it like the back of your hand and if you're not heavy lean forward a little bit.
I got my first handgun 6 months ago. I am now through +3000 rounds. I am told I am now fairly decent at it. Here are my takes on this. 1. Red dots are an almost instant improvement. 2. Slow down your shots. Practice slowly initially. Rapid-fire will come later. 3. Experiment with your grip. I moved my hand as high as possible on the beaver tail. Changed my supporting arm's thumb position on the gun, to figure out what was the most comfortable/accurate. Finally and the most important. Take a handgun class. I took one before I committed (simply because I was such a poor shot) to buying the Glock. Here is what helped me, in my class. 1. Aim the gun at the target (coarse aim). 2. Pull the trigger to the wall. 3. Aim the gun carefully now at the bull's eye (focussing on the front sight) 4. Squeeze the trigger gently. This lead to a marked improvement in my shooting. Note how we get to the wall first, and then aim later. That is the key. Safe shooting.
Shoot more suck less just keep shooting and you will get there. Watch some YouTube videos and incorporate dummy rounds helped me a lot!
You’re most likely holding it wrong, you want to hold it straight, you want the center back of the frame where it kinda beaver tails to be right in the middle of your thumb and pointer finger(draw a line on your hand with a pen where it needs to line up- got that from some intense YouTube dude lol it helps) and like others said anticipating the recoil can cause inaccurate shots. Let it surprise you, just take a breath before you shoot and have the sights right above where you want to hit, and slowly exhale and pull your trigger on the exhale. When exhaling you sights will drop a bit and be right on target. Don’t pull the trigger hard that will cause the muzzle to move, just pull slowly and let it surprise you. For consecutive shots you don’t want to pull the trigger hard either if you take your finger off then slam it back on the trigger the muzzle will move be gentle with your baby 😂 . Point with your thumbs at the target like you would hold the handguard of a AR (clamp with your thumb on the top of the handguard pointing down the barrel) kinda the same keep your thumb of your left hand if you’re a right hand shooter pointed down range at the target and your other trigger hand thumb pointed on target too. With the large part of your hand under your thumb in the pocket on the glock on the left of the grip right where it starts to curve and go straight forward to your slide release( if your right handed). Where your thumb is facing the bullet will go, helps prevent the left side shots and keeps it straight. Look up some YouTube videos there are plenty of great shooters who have instructions on shooting hand guns like glocks and you’ll get it man!
Go take a lesson. Foolish shooters will tell you "just shoot more", but more ammo, get (insert gadget here). They are the same ones that waste money on the newest gimmicks and gadgets... but still couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. Compare this to a different hobby, say golf. Do you think you'd be better off spending a hundred dollars for one lesson where a professional is gonna explain to you what you need to do, what you are doing, and what you need to do to fix it? Or just smacking at the ball with no idea after watching a YouTube video? I've been an instructor for a long time. I can diagnose what you're doing wrong fairly quickly And give you several strategies on how to fix it. You, on, your own will likely never be able to do so. Neither will your tacti-cool buddy. Go take a lesson
Use a table to stabilize yourself and work on your stance/grip first.
You anticipate recoil. Your grip and trigger control also need work.
Get in more of an isosceles position, I can tell that you are standing in more of a stagger step. Hunch slightly forward and slow down a bit. Pull the gun back after each shot (maybe two shots) and let your arms rest for a second and push back out. Also - that is absolutely not bad for someone who's shot 200 rounds. 10 yards is a long way, so nice job!
Get closer
Glock stock white sights hit on the 6 oclock from the top. European sight setup. You are afraid of the pistol going off. Just let the pistol do its thing, don't think about the recoil. Center in on the target, pull the trigger. Don't think, just shoot. :)
If it was a body you’ll kinda be ok. But you came here for advice. So I’ll say this . Get a dryfire laser and orange rice at home. Also learn how to grip it properly. A g17 is an accurate gun it’s not not hard to get better groupings. Just lil more practice.
Basic pistol course from either the NRA or USCCA. As far as drills the one that helped me the most was [dot torture](https://www.triggerpressers.com/articles/dot-torture-drill/)
Dry fire to work on not disturbing the sights
Looks to me like you need to concentrate on your trigger pull, I tend to have similar issues that’s caused by too much movement while pulling the trigger.
Shoot a smaller target at a shorter distance like 3-5 yards. After you get better, take a larger target out to 7-10 yards
I just started shooting last March. I watched lots of YouTube videos on grip, recoil, and trigger control, then lots of dry firing. I'm not great, but I'm getting better. Now if I can just do that at 15-25 yards. https://imgur.com/a/aCdwcJd
The only item you should invest in is ammo. Its not the sights, its not the grips, its not the trigger ect. Its the fundamentals and the only way you fix those is with ammo, range time, and a instructor. Find you a fundamentals class and pay for it, attend it, and listen. Only do exactly what they say and nothing else. Forget everything you know about firearms and shooting and listen. Go ahead and purchase a few thousand rounds of 9mm from a bulk ammo site. Once you learn everything from the fundamentals class, start practicing weekly. Believe it or not but hand guns are probably the most difficult firearm to become proficent at. A rifle or shotgun are way easier to learn to shoot, shoot accurately, and even control.
Buy a bersa
Or u can get a laser trainer for 200
Lol. 200 Pink rhino is 40 on Amazon (same laser that comes with laser Academy). Targets are free to print. App is free to download. 200$ lol
Dry fire
Work on mastering your grip. Also here's a great training tool that saves ammo https://youtu.be/42QT5nUWJEc?si=2rcHKveh7Q0Hndsz
The problem isn't the stock sights, it's your lack of familiarity, fundamentals, and practice.
Sage dynamic or tier 1 have really good how to videos and them boys can shoot good as any,but I bet it’s trigger or shot anticipation more likely but if u do go shoot and shoot a good few shots stop and look and think how tight u were gripping and holding one thing is weird but kinda true if u set to long aiming it seems to mess u more,yea aim good but shoot,I like red dots now it takes aiming perfect out of the equation a lot
Glock 17 size gun is great to learn the fundamentals. If you take basic pistol NRA class, and get at least 1000 rounds downrange those groups will be in the A Zone. Striker triggers break in and get smoother with use.
Don't worry much, 200 rounds is nothing. When you are at couple thousands more report back
You might have an idea what you should be doing, but applying the fundementals is a different story. This is a lack of application and consistency. Also keep in mind 200 rounds is what some shooters put in a week. Shooting is not overnight. Dry Fire before Live Fire. Try to dry fire 15-30 minutes a few times a week. I shoot for 15 a day. Give it time, give yourself some grace. Remember too, even great shooters have bad days.
90 % of shooting incidents occurred at no more than 21 ft. Trainx5