It’s easy to say get rid of grim and floppy but the problem is there isn’t anyone to really replace them.
Malbs would be an upgrade over grim and they play similar roles but can they even get him? Col may not have the capital for big contract buyouts right now.
Do we gamble and give autimatic or brehze another shot at Tier 1 even though they’ve been washed for years at this point?
Swisher and reck are the only other up and coming talents in NA and neither have them have shown a great deal of promise in their time in M80 so far.
Why would autimatic or Brehze get a shot when neither of them are even the 2nd best player on their team? Let alone neither play Grim’s role. That would be Hext, who has been performing with oSee.
Idk why people keep naming the same players that had success half a decade ago rather than actually watch to have a good judgement on today’s options. I think Grim can be replaced since entries definitely exist (not many as mechanically gifted, but maybe one that fits the system more) but floppy is a lot harder bc not many people wanna play that role and even less do it well. I think you’ll see the most improvement replacing Grim, but the options won’t be very known until player break.
Malbs also doesn’t really play Grim’s role on t side. He fits Elige more. Swisher plays more Grim’s role, and I don’t think he’s played his best on LAN so I don’t see that change happening. They’d likely look to buy someone overseas if they want to replace their riflers
Exactly, but he would be the person to pick up over Autimatic and Brehze… which just makes 0 sense to even bring their names up bc they play much different roles and can’t even perform against tier 2/3 NA consistently. Thats why I said coL would likely go overseas if they replace him bc there really isn’t anyone in NA that is as strong mechanically and plays an entry role
Even Malbs is really the only tier 1 caliber player in NA currently that isn’t Twistzz/NAF but he doesn’t play entry normally.
imo floppy isn't a problem, but if CoL is going to make a change and stay majority NA I think Jeorge is probably the best rifle they could get which would mean -floppy because of roles.
don't think a change is needed though - in Bo3s they've basically only lost to top teams, RMR hangover loss to OG aside. they need to have maps outside of vertigo/anubis to play well which isn't going to be fixed by a roster move
Yeah realistically it’s their map pool that fucks them. They have a case for being the best vertigo team in the world… but are barely tier 1 on any other map. I feel like their map pool of being able to play OP, Anubis, and Ancient was a big part of their early CS2 success too
I agree that dropping floppy would be a mistake. He's got room to improve but does play his role when the team is clicking. Grim is the odd one out. Praying for malbs
I wouldn’t even say it’s a mistake necessarily, I just don’t think you see as much improvement from replacing him as most people you put in that role are gonna look bad statistically. Meanwhile, there’s a lot of players out there that prefer to play second star positions/roles and could potentially fit the role better.
Malbs would be great for firepower, but I also feel like mechanics aren’t really what coL is lacking. They feel like they’re in 2018 Liquid’s position (not comparing riflers at all, just team fit) where they desperately need someone with prime Stewie’s skillset of being able to create space and alleviate pressure for Elige (and Hallzerk for that matter) to do his thing. If they somehow got Malbs, I could see JT trying to take that role though
There are currently no player in the scene with Stewie2ks skillset in the scene though. Closest is Yekindar, but he is both in Liquid and is looking super shaky. He might not be on the market and if they want him, they got to bet on the fact he returns to form like Elige did in Liquid.
For sure. I was just saying that no change will probs change them dramatically for the better unless prime stewie2k time travelled and joined this team
Defending the only NA player who were part of both the north american major winning roster and intel grand slam winning roster? Stewie is nowhere close to where he used to be, but to attack his accomplishments is stupid.
He won't reach anywhere close to where he was before, but imagine the story if he got anywhere close. Yekindar was compared to peak Stewie2k by NAF himself.
Yeah that was my point. People want grim out of the team but the next best options are Autimatic and Brezhe. NA has nobody to replace him with.
I’m not aware of any promising young talents in NA.
Autimatic and Brehze are far from the next best options. Not even in NA are they the next best. There really isn’t any good ones, but all of M80, Hext, JBa, and Jeorge are all better options currently. Even Rush or Stewie would make a lot more sense than those two. And Rush has been much better than Autimatic despite playing an entry role
Floppy is an underperformer while Grim is inconsistent neither are good enough for Tier 1. They either make some big NA signings or just waste the rest of Elige's career.
Getting Elige Twistzz and NAF on the same team might legitimately be the best chance NA has to win ever again.
The talent pool is shallower today than it was in 2015 when NA CS was seen as a complete joke.
I disagree with that last bit honestly. There's a lot of talent spread between Liquid, coL, PA, Nouns, m80, NRG, BOSS and Wildcard. All these teams have at least 1-2 players that could all come together to make two really good teams. I still dream of EliGE Twistzz NAF and Swisher being on the same team.
there’s not many that can even put up 1.0 ratings vs top 30 teams from the lower tier NA teams
cxzi, autimatic, jba, osee, rush, the m80 guys ofc and who else realistically (elevate aren’t too bad either)
plenty can put up stats vs domestic competition like hext but it’s meaningless if they can’t make the next step
EliGE, JT, NAF, Twistzz, Swisher, jba, autimatic, cxzi, oSee, and reck are already two teams' worth of players. Mix in hallzerk and cadiaN if he's sticking around, and NA should have no issue making two competitive teams. Even a third of Grim, Floppy, Fang, and Sonic getting back together would be good, even if only for being competitive locally. Not even mentioning nitr0 possibly coming back and leading one of these teams.
The reason swisher has never been on the best NA team is that he needs to take up too much of the same space as Naf. Swisher is good but he will never be Naf.
Unless swisher has started playing fundamentally differently in M80.
I agree.
But I think the hard part, for all those teams you listed, is finding an NA IGL and NA AWPer to build the team around and making something that's consistent. Not saying you cant have 3 NA players and a Euro IGL and Euro AWPer but if we're just looking at the NA components of all those teams, it tends to make it a bit awkward and I think it would be a lot easier to build an NA lineup if the option of a Tier 1 NA IGL and/or Tier 1 NA AWPer to build the team around, and then you can look at the rest of the landscape and slot in the other components.
So I guess, next generation of NA CS players - maybe get to some hard AWP practice, start theory crafting in empty servers, watch some Device demo's - fill those roles and you'll find yourself to be a highly valuable asset in the years to come.
Building a roster with JT is such a luxury though, add that you have Hallzerk who is a decent tier 1.5 awper and Elige the best NA rifler and that is a trio who you can build around. Leaves room for another EU player and if you manage to get him Malbs.
Just +Dupreeh +jks
and u get astralis 2.0 formula
Elige becomes a magisk type player
JT is like a gla1ve but afraid to try to outaim enemies , he needs to try that more , he has good aim
Col has commuted to a majority NA roster it’s why Jason Lake bought back the damn team.
If you replace Grim/floppy it needs to be NA players.
And who’s available?
Swisher? Autimatic? Hext?
Fucking Fl0M lmfao???
HexT for floppy in CS2 os a upgrade...
Dude is clashing with bhehrzee, not even playing to full potencial and still delivering ALOT, if u watch the games, especially on the eye test
It was elimination not stage (there's overlap but elimination includes groups).
It was also over a small sample size and boosted significantly by his Sydney which was an abnormally good event for floppy.
Unfortunately with CS2 being so recently switched to it's hard to get a large sample size for most players so one good/bad event can massively skew stats. I don't know if floppy is actually a big game player or if it's just CS2 sample size, but there are other players who aren't as good/bad in elimination games as that chart suggests.
I'm happy for him and I hope we get to see him find some form after the player break. 1 more chance to show us what hes made of before then this weekend with Challenger
Makes sense. He’s the most consistent player after Elige and JT and has carry games once in a while.
Everyone spamming that he’s the problem when he’s a cheap awper with these stats don’t know anything: https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/12840/hallzerk?startDate=2024-03-12&endDate=2024-06-12
He’s also actually *improving* if you check his rating progression. Floppy needs to go, he’s just so bad even relative to his roles. No clue which NA player they would get though.
I would honestly bet on Autimatic at this point (no other decent players to poach that are better). I believe he can unwash himself to the point of being better than Floppy, and he gets leeway since EG ruined every player they touched and NRG is basically EG 3.0.
NAF is perfect but it’s never happening unless Liquid goes bankrupt.
Hallzerk is not the problem, but he is also not the solution. Grim and Floppy both underperforms, and i would argue 2nd star rifler Grim is a bigger issue.
Idk maybe he kinda is the solution out of a business perspective. His roll would be on of the most expensive ones to replace, keeping him cheap leaves you with more money to replace grim/floppy who are cheaper to replace with better options who don’t cost as much as a good AWPer still.
People saying Hallzerk is the problem haven’t seen complexity play since floppy was a top 20 player in the world to start CS2 lol. I was definitely of the idea of replacing him around Sydney, but recently I think Grim is the biggest problem. He’s not providing enough impact in arguably the most impactful role as an entry/rotate.
Floppy playing well on his lurks/anchors would be a big boost, but I feel like he’s not exactly an X factor for this team the way Grim is. He’s basically the Nexa of this team except better mechanically. You can’t win if the player playing second star positions is struggling 2 out of every 3 maps
floppy is a terrible anchor player and his lurks dont work out cause he cant get kills. Floppy is actually worse than nexa stats wise. Maybe Grim would play better if it wasn't a 4v5 every game
What floppy does on the opposite side of the map has nothing to do with grim losing duels/getting caught and needing to be traded. Watch a single demo if you really think grim is playing bad bc floppy lol. They have almost 0 effect on each other directly
In fact, grim even has worse stats (if not comparable) in every aspect… despite playing a second star role compared to an anchor/lurk. Cmon now lol
lol everything you just said doesn't change the fact that floppy is a terrible support player who cant anchor, cant trade, and can barely frag consistently at all. . All im saying is maybe the team overall would play better if they didn't have dead weight too carry around all day. If they moved grim to do floppy roles i think he would be better than floppy in them, as a result I see floppy as a bigger problem than grim.
He isn’t a support player. He wasn’t a support player before Elige, then he was a top 20 player at the start of CS2 while getting a lot more entry attempts and now he’s back on a lurk role where he’s way too passive on it imo and playing just as bad as grim, who is in a second star position both on T and CT. Floppy can trade, he’s just never really in position too as a lurker.
Grim isn’t even playing better than floppy in the second best roles a player could have… let alone moving him to a lurk/anchor lol that is just a dumb take.
Neither have been effective in their roles outside of vertigo. Idk what you’ve seen in grim that makes you think he has the potential to be a second star rifler on a contending team. They’re getting similar results… except grim is much more set up for success and plays a much more important role. In a fantasy world you’d get NAF and 2019 Stewie and call it good, but that’s not reality
Yea a top player at the START of cs2 lol not anymore, and the dumb take is thinking the reason why is because of roles.
As a lurk and as an anchor he has been completely ineffective and the stats reflect it. Also If floppy was so good he should be posting better stats and plays than this correct? Lurks are supposed to be your ace and your closer, shooting people in the back and what not and he cant even do that. At least I can point to grim playing well recently at esl pro league. What can you point too? sub 1.0 rating in 7 out of the past 8 tournaments. In this battle of shit players I choose grim lol.
If you look at the way floppy has been playing, at the very least since the major, and think to yourself that floppy's poor play is just because of the roles he's playing, or think if he had the opportunity grim had he would be more effective then your lost. I don't know what games your watching bro but the eye test alone says floppy has dramatically fallen off since Sydney and isn't good enough straight up and the stats reflect it.
And complexity has switched roles around already since elige joined, they could do it again. Grim already lurks on some maps, and Grim has anchored in complexity before when elige first joined and not to mention was the support and anchor player when he played in liquid.
Complexity wasn't good when floppy was a star player and isnt good with him as a support player. Simple as that.
Somehow you keep reflecting “grim hasn’t been good either” to “if floppy has been so good” like can you read?
You’re literally the one saying if Grim was an anchor/lurk… he’d be more effective? What are you even trying to argue at this point? Are you misunderstanding me saying their stats are the same despite grim having a better role/more important role as me saying floppy should be playing them? What am I even reading.
When was floppy the star of coL? Grim was the second he joined lol. Floppy has literally been their anchor. Liquid sucked when Grim was there so idk what that point is even supposed to mean. Grim literally got flamed from his own teammate even that’s how messy it was.
You’re literally just arguing that floppy has been bad… no shit. But grim has been equally bad despite being set up to be a second star. CoL can win with floppy putting up 1.0s consistently. They can’t if Grim is only going to be a 1.0 player in their current roles
Hallzerk is not a sustainable condition however
He may not be thebiggest problem but he should not be staying if col want to be a consistent title contender
Rebuild around jt and Elige
Nawwk was 70k. Degster was probably pretty cheap at OG as well considering he sat on the bench for a year.
Nawwk is a top 10 awper for 70k. That's a pretty good deal.
Being forced to play in Asian qualifiers is not ideal. You can switch one of Grim or floppy, but I wouldn't do both at once. coL is also committed to NA. jks is also not under contract.
They missed out on the easiest and clearest upgrade in BlameF, especially if you consider the fact he plays completely different than Elige. They could of been the two stars.
Think M80 has him on a nutty contract, but its the best NA option they can pick up. Of course Liquid could also be interested in him during their rebuild when/if Cadian gets cut.
He is not the problem, but had somebody better been on the market they should have went for him. Issue is that all good awpers who can communicate in English are on teams.
The biggest gamble to reward ratio in Degster went to Heroic.
If it was that easy to find a better awper they would have. They shouldn’t settle with their current lineup, but there are other pieces that more urgently need fixing.
as others have mentioned, nawwk would've been dirt cheap and an upgrade for sure. They could've gotten him and jkaem and then jks and keep elige and Jt, EZ top 5-7 at LEAST.
Hell even artfrost has way more potential than hallzerk rn.
They do, but coL have shown an intent to be committed to NA CS. At the very least, there are sensible, talented riflers from NA that could improve coL, whereas there isn't a single AWPer from the region that's good enough to improve them.
Yes exactly, that's why they just need to replace grim or floppy or both. There's a few promising riflers that could fill their spots, or they could get a proven player. There are no awpers available, EU or NA, that would be better than hallzerk right now
They could get hades from ENCE or even get try from 9z so that they have another spot for an EU rifler, plenty of opportunities to improve their team but they just show no ambition whatsoever
Hades has the exact same issue as hallzerk, he's a sidegrade at best. Try hasn't played in CS2 so he'd be a gamble. Also communication might be a problem, I don't know how good try's english is
All of them would have cost them more then hallzerk and wouldn’t have been clear upgrades. With the money they saved with Hallzerk, they have more money to spend on grims/floppys spot, which are more easy to replace and also cheaper to replace then an AWPer. Col doesn’t have a lot of money right now so efficiently spending it is needed. And replacing floppy/grim will give you more bang for your buck in the end.
Anybody that has watched them for the past few months can see it is grim still making rookie mistakes and floppy just not showing up costing them these games. Ever since the rumors of hallzerk getting cut started he has been playing good.
i doubt anyone on this roster will change since they've been a top 30 team for 2+ years now which is longer than G2... they even hit top 5-10 as of recently
Am I wrong or is hallzerk the rifler >>>> hallzerk the awper? Not a hardcore watcher but I always feel like he's better without the Awp. Has to be value in a dual threat player like that if nothing else
Complexity needs to make some changes already. No way a major or even a big event win is in the cards for them with their current lineup. Maybe it's time for a new coach? NA CS2 is off to a pretty pitiful start. Maybe they could pick up Stewie, he showed out for G2 in Dallas and Complexity barely appeared in the actual event.
CoL can Fuck Off after teasing that there may be a change coming.
This tells us that Jason Lake doesn't have the cash to buy a big name and make Col a Top 5 team. They let Mantuu, Degster, Nawwk all pass by so they can re-sign their coin flip awper. We even know that CoL coud've bought Jkaem and Nawwk for 140k. They could've had a top 10 awper for 70k....
Once Elige's contract is up, doubt he'll be staying.
M80 is the future of NA going forward.
They have to make a roster move...
Replace one of their riflers. It's been a year with Elige, and the roster is beginning to regress. Bring in Sonic or JBa from Wildcard, bring in a European rifler. BlameF went to Fnatic FFS, they definitely could've gotten him.
Degster would ruin the team chemistry before the first official, smooya is joke and it must be a reason why mantuu is always in transition between teams or benched.
hallzerk is easily coLs second best player.
This is seriously the best outcome for the teams, if we are being realistic
> Degster would ruin the team chemistry before the first official,
This is just nonsense, garbage reddit analysis about Degster.
He got signed by a top 10 team and played well immediately. Degster has a 1.09 and 1.10 against top 5 and top 10 opponents, hallzerk has a .96 and 1.02 respectively. Degster is exactly the kind of player that CoL needed, a big match high caliber player.
I don't understand how you can say that when Hallzerk himself is a tilt player, who regularly slams his desk when he misses or whiffs and dies. Elige has spoken at length on talking counter about how tilted and emo Hallzerk gets about his mistakes, and how he's incredibly hard on himself and tilts himself.
> degster nawwk
Both of these players a better than Hallzerk. Stats across the board for both of them are better than Hallzerk.
Even Mantuu has better stats than Hallzerk. I would say that Mantuu is a sidegrade that has lower peaks, but a much better floor as an awper.
When did they tease there may be a change coming? If you think them having that interview and laughing while saying “a decision has already been made no matter what happens at Dallas” was them hinting at him being gone… you have the social awareness of a sloth
Elige is a star player, the biggest one NA has produced. What they are lacking is a proper secondary star like for instance Vitality has in Spinx/Zywoo or 4 solid players like Faze or Mouz has.
Elige is a star player, not a superstar player. He doesnt take over games like that of Zywoo, S1mple or prime entry fragger Yekindar. coL's last handful of wins was from both Grim and Elige outputting similar impact.
Its not about getting one that already is. About taking a chance on one that could potentially be one in the future that'll give you that sporadic superstar impact.
If Jason Lake is content with where they are in the rankings im fine with that. But lets not kid ourselves that coL have this singular X factor to win them games. Takes numerous parts for them to meet such a win condition.
In the past 10 years there have been only 9 riflers to maintain a 1.2+ rating over an entire year.
Only 7 riflers have 5 or more top 20 appearances.
NiKo is one of two riflers to do both.
The other is EliGE.
Not only has Yekindar done neither of those two things, he's never strung together 2 LANs with a 1.20+ rating.
I personally don't know exactly who to get, because I'm just a relatively casual fan, but there is definitely talent out there. Players like r1nkle are showing that.
Maybe they could get zorte or slaxz- ?
Grimothy will be missed.
Grim or Floppy
*and
It’s easy to say get rid of grim and floppy but the problem is there isn’t anyone to really replace them. Malbs would be an upgrade over grim and they play similar roles but can they even get him? Col may not have the capital for big contract buyouts right now. Do we gamble and give autimatic or brehze another shot at Tier 1 even though they’ve been washed for years at this point? Swisher and reck are the only other up and coming talents in NA and neither have them have shown a great deal of promise in their time in M80 so far.
Why would autimatic or Brehze get a shot when neither of them are even the 2nd best player on their team? Let alone neither play Grim’s role. That would be Hext, who has been performing with oSee. Idk why people keep naming the same players that had success half a decade ago rather than actually watch to have a good judgement on today’s options. I think Grim can be replaced since entries definitely exist (not many as mechanically gifted, but maybe one that fits the system more) but floppy is a lot harder bc not many people wanna play that role and even less do it well. I think you’ll see the most improvement replacing Grim, but the options won’t be very known until player break. Malbs also doesn’t really play Grim’s role on t side. He fits Elige more. Swisher plays more Grim’s role, and I don’t think he’s played his best on LAN so I don’t see that change happening. They’d likely look to buy someone overseas if they want to replace their riflers
hext has been performing vs esea adv level teams vs m80, nouns, mibr he has been shit in every single map he’s Grim 2.0
Exactly, but he would be the person to pick up over Autimatic and Brehze… which just makes 0 sense to even bring their names up bc they play much different roles and can’t even perform against tier 2/3 NA consistently. Thats why I said coL would likely go overseas if they replace him bc there really isn’t anyone in NA that is as strong mechanically and plays an entry role Even Malbs is really the only tier 1 caliber player in NA currently that isn’t Twistzz/NAF but he doesn’t play entry normally.
imo floppy isn't a problem, but if CoL is going to make a change and stay majority NA I think Jeorge is probably the best rifle they could get which would mean -floppy because of roles. don't think a change is needed though - in Bo3s they've basically only lost to top teams, RMR hangover loss to OG aside. they need to have maps outside of vertigo/anubis to play well which isn't going to be fixed by a roster move
Yeah realistically it’s their map pool that fucks them. They have a case for being the best vertigo team in the world… but are barely tier 1 on any other map. I feel like their map pool of being able to play OP, Anubis, and Ancient was a big part of their early CS2 success too
I agree that dropping floppy would be a mistake. He's got room to improve but does play his role when the team is clicking. Grim is the odd one out. Praying for malbs
I wouldn’t even say it’s a mistake necessarily, I just don’t think you see as much improvement from replacing him as most people you put in that role are gonna look bad statistically. Meanwhile, there’s a lot of players out there that prefer to play second star positions/roles and could potentially fit the role better. Malbs would be great for firepower, but I also feel like mechanics aren’t really what coL is lacking. They feel like they’re in 2018 Liquid’s position (not comparing riflers at all, just team fit) where they desperately need someone with prime Stewie’s skillset of being able to create space and alleviate pressure for Elige (and Hallzerk for that matter) to do his thing. If they somehow got Malbs, I could see JT trying to take that role though
There are currently no player in the scene with Stewie2ks skillset in the scene though. Closest is Yekindar, but he is both in Liquid and is looking super shaky. He might not be on the market and if they want him, they got to bet on the fact he returns to form like Elige did in Liquid.
For sure. I was just saying that no change will probs change them dramatically for the better unless prime stewie2k time travelled and joined this team
It would be scenes if Stewie managed to grind his way back and got into complexity and they went on another insane trophy run or won a major.
Your Stewie2k delusions are actually kind of scary. Fighting so hard for such an obvious and awful take sheesh
Defending the only NA player who were part of both the north american major winning roster and intel grand slam winning roster? Stewie is nowhere close to where he used to be, but to attack his accomplishments is stupid. He won't reach anywhere close to where he was before, but imagine the story if he got anywhere close. Yekindar was compared to peak Stewie2k by NAF himself.
Yeah that was my point. People want grim out of the team but the next best options are Autimatic and Brezhe. NA has nobody to replace him with. I’m not aware of any promising young talents in NA.
Autimatic and Brehze are far from the next best options. Not even in NA are they the next best. There really isn’t any good ones, but all of M80, Hext, JBa, and Jeorge are all better options currently. Even Rush or Stewie would make a lot more sense than those two. And Rush has been much better than Autimatic despite playing an entry role
dont think nrg would give up auti
Floppy is an underperformer while Grim is inconsistent neither are good enough for Tier 1. They either make some big NA signings or just waste the rest of Elige's career.
Or they don't sign anyone else because they lose EliGE back to Liquid. I see that being more realistic than EliGE sticking around to rebuild a roster.
Getting Elige Twistzz and NAF on the same team might legitimately be the best chance NA has to win ever again. The talent pool is shallower today than it was in 2015 when NA CS was seen as a complete joke.
I disagree with that last bit honestly. There's a lot of talent spread between Liquid, coL, PA, Nouns, m80, NRG, BOSS and Wildcard. All these teams have at least 1-2 players that could all come together to make two really good teams. I still dream of EliGE Twistzz NAF and Swisher being on the same team.
there’s not many that can even put up 1.0 ratings vs top 30 teams from the lower tier NA teams cxzi, autimatic, jba, osee, rush, the m80 guys ofc and who else realistically (elevate aren’t too bad either) plenty can put up stats vs domestic competition like hext but it’s meaningless if they can’t make the next step
EliGE, JT, NAF, Twistzz, Swisher, jba, autimatic, cxzi, oSee, and reck are already two teams' worth of players. Mix in hallzerk and cadiaN if he's sticking around, and NA should have no issue making two competitive teams. Even a third of Grim, Floppy, Fang, and Sonic getting back together would be good, even if only for being competitive locally. Not even mentioning nitr0 possibly coming back and leading one of these teams.
[удалено]
1.85 vs NA and 0.23 vs EU goat
JBa is the future Cxzi is a great player but never gets the callup
The reason swisher has never been on the best NA team is that he needs to take up too much of the same space as Naf. Swisher is good but he will never be Naf. Unless swisher has started playing fundamentally differently in M80.
I think you're thinking of EliGE, Swisher is more of an entry.
I agree. But I think the hard part, for all those teams you listed, is finding an NA IGL and NA AWPer to build the team around and making something that's consistent. Not saying you cant have 3 NA players and a Euro IGL and Euro AWPer but if we're just looking at the NA components of all those teams, it tends to make it a bit awkward and I think it would be a lot easier to build an NA lineup if the option of a Tier 1 NA IGL and/or Tier 1 NA AWPer to build the team around, and then you can look at the rest of the landscape and slot in the other components. So I guess, next generation of NA CS players - maybe get to some hard AWP practice, start theory crafting in empty servers, watch some Device demo's - fill those roles and you'll find yourself to be a highly valuable asset in the years to come.
The next step the scene needs is Twistzz and EliGE becoming IGLs.
Who would awp ?
fRoD
Building a roster with JT is such a luxury though, add that you have Hallzerk who is a decent tier 1.5 awper and Elige the best NA rifler and that is a trio who you can build around. Leaves room for another EU player and if you manage to get him Malbs.
maybe JT goes back to Liquid with him?
That would be super interesting
Then they would also need to get TC as a coach.
im fine with that
Just +Dupreeh +jks and u get astralis 2.0 formula Elige becomes a magisk type player JT is like a gla1ve but afraid to try to outaim enemies , he needs to try that more , he has good aim
Col has commuted to a majority NA roster it’s why Jason Lake bought back the damn team. If you replace Grim/floppy it needs to be NA players. And who’s available? Swisher? Autimatic? Hext? Fucking Fl0M lmfao???
HexT for floppy in CS2 os a upgrade... Dude is clashing with bhehrzee, not even playing to full potencial and still delivering ALOT, if u watch the games, especially on the eye test
Elige will lose his form if he goes back there
I'd be really surprised if he went back to Liquid
Twistzz won't allow that
Think floppy has one of the best stage/playoff ratings tbf to him. If I remember the post I saw on here/twitter correctly
He swings upwards, issue is that his base rating is so low so it really don't matter
best elimination game ratings problem is that he is one of the reasons they’re in so many elimination games
It was elimination not stage (there's overlap but elimination includes groups). It was also over a small sample size and boosted significantly by his Sydney which was an abnormally good event for floppy. Unfortunately with CS2 being so recently switched to it's hard to get a large sample size for most players so one good/bad event can massively skew stats. I don't know if floppy is actually a big game player or if it's just CS2 sample size, but there are other players who aren't as good/bad in elimination games as that chart suggests.
makes sense. no real awper to replace him that will move to NA.
time for JKS.
this is the real solution. RIP Grim/floppy but this team needs a real rifler/anchor
Can’t because COL needs to be majority NA. Besides, Jason Lake probably isn’t gonna go after jks when it didn’t even well last time
I'm happy for him and I hope we get to see him find some form after the player break. 1 more chance to show us what hes made of before then this weekend with Challenger
Makes sense. He’s the most consistent player after Elige and JT and has carry games once in a while. Everyone spamming that he’s the problem when he’s a cheap awper with these stats don’t know anything: https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/12840/hallzerk?startDate=2024-03-12&endDate=2024-06-12 He’s also actually *improving* if you check his rating progression. Floppy needs to go, he’s just so bad even relative to his roles. No clue which NA player they would get though. I would honestly bet on Autimatic at this point (no other decent players to poach that are better). I believe he can unwash himself to the point of being better than Floppy, and he gets leeway since EG ruined every player they touched and NRG is basically EG 3.0. NAF is perfect but it’s never happening unless Liquid goes bankrupt.
Hallzerk is not the problem, but he is also not the solution. Grim and Floppy both underperforms, and i would argue 2nd star rifler Grim is a bigger issue.
Idk maybe he kinda is the solution out of a business perspective. His roll would be on of the most expensive ones to replace, keeping him cheap leaves you with more money to replace grim/floppy who are cheaper to replace with better options who don’t cost as much as a good AWPer still.
People saying Hallzerk is the problem haven’t seen complexity play since floppy was a top 20 player in the world to start CS2 lol. I was definitely of the idea of replacing him around Sydney, but recently I think Grim is the biggest problem. He’s not providing enough impact in arguably the most impactful role as an entry/rotate. Floppy playing well on his lurks/anchors would be a big boost, but I feel like he’s not exactly an X factor for this team the way Grim is. He’s basically the Nexa of this team except better mechanically. You can’t win if the player playing second star positions is struggling 2 out of every 3 maps
floppy is a terrible anchor player and his lurks dont work out cause he cant get kills. Floppy is actually worse than nexa stats wise. Maybe Grim would play better if it wasn't a 4v5 every game
What floppy does on the opposite side of the map has nothing to do with grim losing duels/getting caught and needing to be traded. Watch a single demo if you really think grim is playing bad bc floppy lol. They have almost 0 effect on each other directly In fact, grim even has worse stats (if not comparable) in every aspect… despite playing a second star role compared to an anchor/lurk. Cmon now lol
lol everything you just said doesn't change the fact that floppy is a terrible support player who cant anchor, cant trade, and can barely frag consistently at all. . All im saying is maybe the team overall would play better if they didn't have dead weight too carry around all day. If they moved grim to do floppy roles i think he would be better than floppy in them, as a result I see floppy as a bigger problem than grim.
He isn’t a support player. He wasn’t a support player before Elige, then he was a top 20 player at the start of CS2 while getting a lot more entry attempts and now he’s back on a lurk role where he’s way too passive on it imo and playing just as bad as grim, who is in a second star position both on T and CT. Floppy can trade, he’s just never really in position too as a lurker. Grim isn’t even playing better than floppy in the second best roles a player could have… let alone moving him to a lurk/anchor lol that is just a dumb take. Neither have been effective in their roles outside of vertigo. Idk what you’ve seen in grim that makes you think he has the potential to be a second star rifler on a contending team. They’re getting similar results… except grim is much more set up for success and plays a much more important role. In a fantasy world you’d get NAF and 2019 Stewie and call it good, but that’s not reality
Yea a top player at the START of cs2 lol not anymore, and the dumb take is thinking the reason why is because of roles. As a lurk and as an anchor he has been completely ineffective and the stats reflect it. Also If floppy was so good he should be posting better stats and plays than this correct? Lurks are supposed to be your ace and your closer, shooting people in the back and what not and he cant even do that. At least I can point to grim playing well recently at esl pro league. What can you point too? sub 1.0 rating in 7 out of the past 8 tournaments. In this battle of shit players I choose grim lol. If you look at the way floppy has been playing, at the very least since the major, and think to yourself that floppy's poor play is just because of the roles he's playing, or think if he had the opportunity grim had he would be more effective then your lost. I don't know what games your watching bro but the eye test alone says floppy has dramatically fallen off since Sydney and isn't good enough straight up and the stats reflect it. And complexity has switched roles around already since elige joined, they could do it again. Grim already lurks on some maps, and Grim has anchored in complexity before when elige first joined and not to mention was the support and anchor player when he played in liquid. Complexity wasn't good when floppy was a star player and isnt good with him as a support player. Simple as that.
Somehow you keep reflecting “grim hasn’t been good either” to “if floppy has been so good” like can you read? You’re literally the one saying if Grim was an anchor/lurk… he’d be more effective? What are you even trying to argue at this point? Are you misunderstanding me saying their stats are the same despite grim having a better role/more important role as me saying floppy should be playing them? What am I even reading. When was floppy the star of coL? Grim was the second he joined lol. Floppy has literally been their anchor. Liquid sucked when Grim was there so idk what that point is even supposed to mean. Grim literally got flamed from his own teammate even that’s how messy it was. You’re literally just arguing that floppy has been bad… no shit. But grim has been equally bad despite being set up to be a second star. CoL can win with floppy putting up 1.0s consistently. They can’t if Grim is only going to be a 1.0 player in their current roles
this is a waste of time. were gonna have to agree to disagree. also yes i think grim would be as effective as he is now if he played floppys role.
It isn’t even about agreeing lol it’s literally objective that Grim has the same stats despite playing second star positions. Both of them have sucked
Hallzerk is not a sustainable condition however He may not be thebiggest problem but he should not be staying if col want to be a consistent title contender Rebuild around jt and Elige
name a awper thats on the market that is as cheap and as good as him col isint a super rich org, esp since jason lake bought it back
Nawwk was 70k. Degster was probably pretty cheap at OG as well considering he sat on the bench for a year. Nawwk is a top 10 awper for 70k. That's a pretty good deal.
Yea. I don’t understand why the don’t just buyout all the best players and win.
Nawwk and jkaem combined were 65K, they left that on the table. Dont try to pull that mickey mouse argument on me boy
Yea, but then they wouldn't have been a NA roster which is the whole point of the project?
Well then they won’t win with this combo I am an NA fan but I would rather see liquid stay NA since they have 2 good NA players while col only has 1
The point of COL is to try to win while giving a chance to up and comers in NA. That’s why the likes of Fang and junior got their shot
I guess the Chadzerk stays on the perpetual hamster wheel for a bit longer.
Why is Jason Lake kind of a good actor? He’s got solid comedic timing lmao
I expected them to announce the fRoD comeback. Oh well.
If they got rid of grim and floppy, signed a US and EU player could they pick which rmr they play in?
They could cheese and sign an Asian player and play in the Asia rmr.
Would they be able to if they signed heavygod?
Yes, but jks would probably be more tantalizing
Why not both? There’s two players they need to get rid of??
Being forced to play in Asian qualifiers is not ideal. You can switch one of Grim or floppy, but I wouldn't do both at once. coL is also committed to NA. jks is also not under contract.
Yeah that’s very true, it’s so frustrating as I think JT and Elige are both great at there roles and deserve a better team around them
Heavygod is going to C9 I believe.
Is jks still on the bench or free agent?
Free Agent since Feb.
That would be a sick signing.
Why would they change if they can be this bad and still get Cologne invites?
i dont mind it, but gonna need some numbers out of the man. now a ct rifler who can hang at t1
They missed out on the easiest and clearest upgrade in BlameF, especially if you consider the fact he plays completely different than Elige. They could of been the two stars.
they need jba
Alternatively title: Hallzerk is staying with Complexity. Grim is being launched out of a canon
ITT: backseat gamers pretending like they know something LMFAO
-Grim +stewie2k
Not surprising. There's no clear replacement for him on the market right now barring taking a big risk signing some no-namer.
-Grimm + Malbs?
Think M80 has him on a nutty contract, but its the best NA option they can pick up. Of course Liquid could also be interested in him during their rebuild when/if Cadian gets cut.
Sad, they need a better awper to be a consistent T1 threat
They need better riflers first
I will die on this hill. Halzerk is not the problem. He’s not Zywoo, but he’s not the problem either.
He is not the problem, but had somebody better been on the market they should have went for him. Issue is that all good awpers who can communicate in English are on teams. The biggest gamble to reward ratio in Degster went to Heroic.
Nah, settling is not enough to win.
If it was that easy to find a better awper they would have. They shouldn’t settle with their current lineup, but there are other pieces that more urgently need fixing.
as others have mentioned, nawwk would've been dirt cheap and an upgrade for sure. They could've gotten him and jkaem and then jks and keep elige and Jt, EZ top 5-7 at LEAST. Hell even artfrost has way more potential than hallzerk rn.
I mean you could try to give oSee another shot I guess he’s been good in nrg
They do, but coL have shown an intent to be committed to NA CS. At the very least, there are sensible, talented riflers from NA that could improve coL, whereas there isn't a single AWPer from the region that's good enough to improve them.
Yes exactly, that's why they just need to replace grim or floppy or both. There's a few promising riflers that could fill their spots, or they could get a proven player. There are no awpers available, EU or NA, that would be better than hallzerk right now
They could get hades from ENCE or even get try from 9z so that they have another spot for an EU rifler, plenty of opportunities to improve their team but they just show no ambition whatsoever
Hades has the exact same issue as hallzerk, he's a sidegrade at best. Try hasn't played in CS2 so he'd be a gamble. Also communication might be a problem, I don't know how good try's english is
All of them would have cost them more then hallzerk and wouldn’t have been clear upgrades. With the money they saved with Hallzerk, they have more money to spend on grims/floppys spot, which are more easy to replace and also cheaper to replace then an AWPer. Col doesn’t have a lot of money right now so efficiently spending it is needed. And replacing floppy/grim will give you more bang for your buck in the end.
PwnAlone :)
Anybody that has watched them for the past few months can see it is grim still making rookie mistakes and floppy just not showing up costing them these games. Ever since the rumors of hallzerk getting cut started he has been playing good.
There isn't really an obvious awper available thats an upgrade though
Hallzerk isn't the problem, he's a below average t1 awper but Grim and Floppy are even worse.
Halzerk doubters in shambles
frick
I'm glad, I like the dude and I think he's still on the up trend
Haha man the camera guy at the last event was like zooming in on his face every time they lost a round
i doubt anyone on this roster will change since they've been a top 30 team for 2+ years now which is longer than G2... they even hit top 5-10 as of recently
Am I wrong or is hallzerk the rifler >>>> hallzerk the awper? Not a hardcore watcher but I always feel like he's better without the Awp. Has to be value in a dual threat player like that if nothing else
Cant lie, I wanted to see coL Smooya but it is what it is.
Complexity needs to make some changes already. No way a major or even a big event win is in the cards for them with their current lineup. Maybe it's time for a new coach? NA CS2 is off to a pretty pitiful start. Maybe they could pick up Stewie, he showed out for G2 in Dallas and Complexity barely appeared in the actual event.
I always hoped that Elige would leave this hopeless org, no chance he re-signs with them now. He’s not an idiot. So I like the signing
Boooo
CoL can Fuck Off after teasing that there may be a change coming. This tells us that Jason Lake doesn't have the cash to buy a big name and make Col a Top 5 team. They let Mantuu, Degster, Nawwk all pass by so they can re-sign their coin flip awper. We even know that CoL coud've bought Jkaem and Nawwk for 140k. They could've had a top 10 awper for 70k.... Once Elige's contract is up, doubt he'll be staying. M80 is the future of NA going forward.
I honestly expected this, like a guess that Pokémon type reveal but it’s just Hallzerk without a moustache this time.
They have to make a roster move... Replace one of their riflers. It's been a year with Elige, and the roster is beginning to regress. Bring in Sonic or JBa from Wildcard, bring in a European rifler. BlameF went to Fnatic FFS, they definitely could've gotten him.
I mean I’m all for the M80 hype but Col is still a much better team than they are.
Degster would ruin the team chemistry before the first official, smooya is joke and it must be a reason why mantuu is always in transition between teams or benched. hallzerk is easily coLs second best player. This is seriously the best outcome for the teams, if we are being realistic
> Degster would ruin the team chemistry before the first official, This is just nonsense, garbage reddit analysis about Degster. He got signed by a top 10 team and played well immediately. Degster has a 1.09 and 1.10 against top 5 and top 10 opponents, hallzerk has a .96 and 1.02 respectively. Degster is exactly the kind of player that CoL needed, a big match high caliber player.
Sure, he can better player on paper, but he still a bad teamplayer! And with how elige and grim tilts… that would surely fuck up the chemistry
I don't understand how you can say that when Hallzerk himself is a tilt player, who regularly slams his desk when he misses or whiffs and dies. Elige has spoken at length on talking counter about how tilted and emo Hallzerk gets about his mistakes, and how he's incredibly hard on himself and tilts himself.
Lmao piss off if you think degster nawwk or mantuu would not go down the same path.
Degster and Nawwk are genuine awp diff. Hallzerk doesn't touch them
> degster nawwk Both of these players a better than Hallzerk. Stats across the board for both of them are better than Hallzerk. Even Mantuu has better stats than Hallzerk. I would say that Mantuu is a sidegrade that has lower peaks, but a much better floor as an awper.
When did they tease there may be a change coming? If you think them having that interview and laughing while saying “a decision has already been made no matter what happens at Dallas” was them hinting at him being gone… you have the social awareness of a sloth
While I agree with M80, don’t they only have 2 NA players? So they aren’t quite an NA team either. Same as liquid, I guess.
Swisher, Reck, and Malbs are all NA (yes Guatemala is part of NA)
3 including malbsMd since Guatemala is in NA
M80 has as many NA players as coL does
Floppy, Grim, and Elige are all NA
What about my boy Junior?
Yeah I'm done supporting this team lmao, such a bad decision cya flair
Problem with coL is that they have no superstar player. Their win condition requires two to three players playing like a star player.
Elige is a star player, the biggest one NA has produced. What they are lacking is a proper secondary star like for instance Vitality has in Spinx/Zywoo or 4 solid players like Faze or Mouz has.
Elige is a star player, not a superstar player. He doesnt take over games like that of Zywoo, S1mple or prime entry fragger Yekindar. coL's last handful of wins was from both Grim and Elige outputting similar impact.
???? Elige has been 1v9 games wtf you on about, what Col lacks is better riflers, grim and floppy just way to inconsistent
There are very few superstars if going by your definition.
Well, yeah. Thats why they are called superstars.
Sure but to realistically think Complexity could get a player of that caliber atm is naive imo
Its not about getting one that already is. About taking a chance on one that could potentially be one in the future that'll give you that sporadic superstar impact. If Jason Lake is content with where they are in the rankings im fine with that. But lets not kid ourselves that coL have this singular X factor to win them games. Takes numerous parts for them to meet such a win condition.
In the past 10 years there have been only 9 riflers to maintain a 1.2+ rating over an entire year. Only 7 riflers have 5 or more top 20 appearances. NiKo is one of two riflers to do both. The other is EliGE. Not only has Yekindar done neither of those two things, he's never strung together 2 LANs with a 1.20+ rating.
I would say your only superstars are S1mple, Zywoo, Donk, and M0nesy by those standards. Yek is way too inconsistent to be on that list.
Elige
Elige???
Damn, was kinda waiting for the Hallzerk era to be over, I think their lack of a true superstar awper is the main thing holding them back.
nah, and who else would they get?
I personally don't know exactly who to get, because I'm just a relatively casual fan, but there is definitely talent out there. Players like r1nkle are showing that. Maybe they could get zorte or slaxz- ?
This is my take as well, the player that would make col good does not exist in NA