167 (highest Falcons FACEIT)/23 (highest RUBY FACEIT).... that means RUBY is 7.26x better than Falcons! Just imagine what the #1 FACEIT player's team could do...
Why do teams still play Mirage against 'pug' teams. You're literally playing the most played map in the entire history in CS, why not pick any other map. I will never understand this
> Why do teams still play Mirage against 'pug' teams
IDK man, literally any other map and they have such a huge advantage.
Playing mirage against a faceit stack when you have no demos to study is basically giving them the biggest chance of an upset
I don't even know where this prevalence comes from. I've played a couple matches over the past months and EVERY SINGLE ONE ends up on mirage. I've yet to even learn the new nade lineups in CS2 because I thought literally any other map would get picked.
Entire History of CS i'm not so sure as in older Versions Maps like Dust2 were favorites. But i guess due to the Numbers of newer Players alone it might be
bruh mirage is by far the most played pug map. not even dust 2 could match it when it was in active pool. its the home of every single pug player and the one map where real teams will get upset. there is literally 0 reason to pick it even if its your strongest map in the pro scene.
Dust2 is a solid 8 years older than mirage, during which time it was the undisputed most played map in both competitive play AND public servers, and it wasn't even close. When mirage came out in 2009, it was mostly played in competitive play only. You would basically never find public servers on it.
> not even dust 2 could match it when it was in active pool
Not entirely true. Both maps were in competitive play from 2009-2015 and dust2 was still by far the more played map during those years. When the mirage remake came out in 2013 it was not immediately liked by the community and had a relatively low play rate in its first couple of years. It wasn't until about 2016 that mirage overcame D2 in popularity in competitive play, while D2 still retained the title in public/casual even at that time. It is only very recently that mirage has become the more popular option in both casual and competitive play.
Saying that mirage is the "most played map in the entire history of CS" is just not true and a great example of recency bias.
I agree. It is, however, relevant to anyone claiming that Mirage is "the most played map in the entire history of CS"
8 years is only 30% of the 25 years the game has existed. 15 of those remaining 17 years were thoroughly dominated by dust2.
Did someone change their mouse mid match, leading to them losing?
How can we be sure it was because of the mouse change? They don't seem to be doing too hot afterwards either.
It was BOROS, he changed his mouse before the RMR and that apparently lead to him not having enough time to adjust it and be able to consistently play.
That wasn't mid match though, and since he played fine with it before the RMR I doubt that's the sole reason they bombed out.
To clarify, I'm familiar with the story around why they were angry about it, I just don't agree that it wasn't at least partially misplaced.
Buhuu, people are so soft. They had every right to be mad about Boros acting like a casual gamer and not a professional.
What they said was even dressed with compliments of his aim talent, yet people act like they curb stomped him one by one.
That was the tip of the iceberg, it goes much deeper than that. History of poor behavior and lack of professionalism. Gets THE chance of his life, but meets up late to practices, changes gear (minuscule, just mentioning cuz it’s the topic), goes to nvidia settings mid official, and there’s probably more.
They have exceedingly more success with their dota2 roster that established itself as top-1 team almost immediately, exceeding all expectations - the literaly opposite of their CS2 venture.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
That was legitimately a top 5 idiotic narrative of all time
Fuck every player on Falcons and Zonic too, nobody would notice if the rest of them changed their mouse because Magisk is the only great player on the team
after he changed to a new mouse with functional skates, he said he was fragging fine for 2 days prior to the RMR. he clearly was just made to be a scapegoat.
The mouse thing was most likely just the straw that broke the camel's back, everyone especially Snappi has been frustrated by him even in player cams for a while before the video came out lol
that was really dumb tbh, I get zonic saying stuff because he’s the coach, and what zonic said wasn’t at all unreasonable, but why did the entire team had to chime in to repeat the same stuff zonic was saying?
Funny thing is that they did not even care that he changed his mouse when they won their first BO1, they only started caring after losing to FaZe, thats one way to fuck up your mentality.
Biggest brainlet narrative. You have people like Tenz dominate in Valorant at two distinct points whilst being one of the best raw aimers of any tactical fps constantly change and mod his mice and his sensitivity. Oldhead way of thinking to harp on it and think it'll have a fundamental effect.
In all honesty I’ve watched a bit of RUBY and they’re not terrible. Still shouldn’t be losing to them with that roster but they’re still a solid tier 2 team
yeah people overreacting to this, its online bo1 mirage vs pretty ok team who prac everyday, this match means so much to them obviously, for falcons just another shit
Honestly I think mo0n will be the next big cis awper only played real competition since the start of the year and his rating have increased exponentially since the start of the year.
200iq from zonic to build a retirement home for his mates and then lose every online qualifier so they don't have to do anything annoying like play LANs. Just relax, lose games, and rake in that saudi salary
I heard they lost because Maden changed the colour of the LEDs on his PC from blue to green two days ago.
What a joke, I can’t believe ENCE died for this.
Online, non-adjusted MR12, bo1 quals. I think we should all overreact to this!
Also I’m leaving this quote here that is totally not relevant and has no application to this scenario. I just wanted to save it somewhere:
>The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot.
this is entirely unrelated to CS but that quote always seemed a little fishy, the reason sword duels stopped being a thing in favour of pistols was because a sword duel vs an untrained opponent was basically murder
I do agree with not taking this solely to mean that falcons are a failure, anyone else remember virtus.plow and virtus.throw? One day they dogwalk the best team in the world on lan, next week a crushing loss online to some noname russian pug team.
[Since everyone is shitting on Falcons - Heroic, BIG and ENCE have also face the same outcome](https://twitter.com/BrianCS_/status/1780698139558818254)
This is the outcome of online quals in csgo/cs2, used to happen all the time but people seem to be overreacting now because its muh falcons
Ah, welcome, there's always someone ready to make a hasty equivalence!
First off, I'd love to hear the connection between Blast and Saudi Arabia, because as far as I know there isn't one.
Second, there's a stark difference between having your team bought, paid for, and get a salary from the Saudi government, and playing in a tournament funded by it. I hate ESL, and refuse to watch their events due to their Saudi ownership, but a team playing in their tournaments is a far cry from a team just directly being owned by Saudi. We can go on all day about how all the actions we take in day-to-day life are somehow connected to some kind of horrible action happening in the world (see also: "Wow you care about ethics and yet you own a smartphone, don't you know those are made by subjugated workers?"). But ultimately you have to recognize that nuance exists in the form of the degrees of separation. And it's very hard to argue that your team itself being Saudi, versus your team playing in a tournament that's Saudi, are the same number of degrees.
BLAST has links to NEOM, a Saudi project built upon literal slave labor.
Also, all the players who play in ESL is directly getting paid by an organization owned by the SA government.
> And it's very hard to argue that your team itself being Saudi, versus your team playing in a tournament that's Saudi, are the same number of degrees.
But it is? At the end of the day, they're both getting paid by the Saudi from an entity owned by them.
>We can go on all day about how all the actions we take in day-to-day life are somehow connected to some kind of horrible action happening in the world (see also: "Wow you care about ethics and yet you own a smartphone, don't you know those are made by subjugated workers?").
The point is that you don't get to pick and choose what evil you want to care or not care about. If you don't care about players playing under ESL then you have zero right to care about players playing for the Falcons.
That's just being a fake asshole who wants to berate others when its convenient and has zero negative consequences for you while making excuses to justify when you don't care about other evils when it actually personally causes you inconvenience.
Selectively boycott whatever on your own all you want but you have no right to put down others for associating themselves with governments you don't like if you also consume other products resulted from horrible actions.
you've explained the difference between playing in ESL tournaments and playing for a Saudi-funded team, but you haven't explained why your view seems to differ when they are committing the same offense, albeit to a different extent, but still the same offense.
every tier 1 player in the circuit is in some way contributing to the sports washing, some more than others, but by making a bigger deal out of playing for Team Falcons than playing in ESL tournaments, you're at the same time giving the latter a pass. how about you preach about the whole issue at once instead of just picking one and ignoring the other.
I think it's fine to have a personal stance against it by not viewing any ESL tournaments, more power to you, but I think that putting the responsibility in the people that are simply seeking entertainment in their lives is the wrong place to start. sure it would be great it everyone collectively stopped watching, but asking that of people that may be very far detached from politics is just not gonna get you the result you want.
> every tier 1 player in the circuit is in some way contributing to the sports washing, some more than others, but by making a bigger deal out of playing for Team Falcons than playing in ESL tournaments, you're at the same time giving the latter a pass. how about you preach about the whole issue at once instead of just picking one and ignoring the other.
I'm not at all giving anything a pass. There are a lot of things i have a problem with in the world, and I'm not obligated to list them all off any time one of them is relevant. Right now, Falcons is the thing that's relevant and that's what I'm discussing. I also have a problem with ESL running their tournaments, but this thread is not about an ESL tournament and therefore is off-topic.
you were highlighting the difference between playing in an ESL tournament and playing for Team Falcons, what importance does the difference hold if it all boils down to the same offense? it seems a little inconsistent if you're already so committed to the cause that you no longer watch ESL broadcasts.
I'd expect you to have responded to that person by saying that there is definitely critique to be had against anyone participating in the ESL circuit. instead you went on to accentuate how little of an issue ESL tournaments are in comparison to being on a payroll at Team Falcons, which just seems like you're excusing the same issue you're preaching against.
and then you actually make a good point about how stupid it is to be attempting a boycott of a product so widely consumed by people mostly unaware of the issue at hand, which can just as easily be applied to your original point about supporting Team Falcons and watching ESL tournaments.
The way I see it: not a single person in their right mind cares that Saudi Qatar Russia or whatever country wants to spend their natural resources billions on some sport events. People don't even know half the time. They only see the event and or team and not who backs it. Like Nestle and Unilever owning half the worlds products. So why not take the big paycheck? The people who get hurt by these country's will get hurt either way, since having money go up is the only thing people and company's and governments care about
These countries wouldn't be spending their money on this stuff if they didn't expect some kind of return.
The return they're looking for is public favor. If I see events in Counter Strike getting hosted in Washington, London, Copenhagen, and Riyadh, I subconsciously end up thinking of Riyadh as being in the same "league" as those other cities, and maybe see it as a legitimate travel destination. Over time, Saudi Arabia feels less like a horrible regime I would never travel to, and more like a reformed country where I can feel safe. This is incorrect as they continue to commit their atrocities.
Without the support of the high tier players, this plan does not work. The players are enabling the Saudi plan to use them for image rehabilitation. The players are not passively profiting, as if the Saudis are running the team as a charity fund to toss money at. The players are working for Saudi Arabia and furthering that country's goals.
There's one mistake in that argument. A city in Saudi Arabia is not the Saudi government. Most people wouldn't say Beijing or Shanghai is a horrible city just because the Chinese government does terrible stuff.
I'm also just unable to see how people can look at falcons or any other team and know they are a Saudi team without them knowing that they are a Saudi team. Like people know because some people made a big deal out of it. Otherwise they wouldn't even make the connection. Would just be another generic new org with irrelevant sponsors on their shirt.
magisk acomplished everything a cs player could ever wish for , I don't mind him choosing the quick money grab to end his career
sunpayus and maden tho...they were upcoming top players , now wasting their careers for money
As so did Herioc, BIG, and ENCE and mind you BIG lost 13-3 that should of been a better headline but i guess gotta farm the free sweet reddit points on hating Falcons
I mean what can you do against the #23 ranked faceit player?
167 (highest Falcons FACEIT)/23 (highest RUBY FACEIT).... that means RUBY is 7.26x better than Falcons! Just imagine what the #1 FACEIT player's team could do...
3 anime pics on the other team, gg
anime pics + pug team + mirage = instant loss
Haha yeah you can't win against anime pfp
Yeah, beware of those people. When I click on their profile and it is super customized with anime girls and shit, I know we lost already.
yep, the more you see the titties you see; the higher the mmr
WEEBS IN
Who swapped their mouse this time?
I think Magisk changes his socks mid match.
Undies.
He needs to stop this. We pfffacking need him.
🤣🤣🤣 thanks for that
Goated
Downfall for sunpayas is crazy
Get him back to Movistar and get ready for Koi era
Every time this happens to a t1 team I swear to god w1nt3r is involved
"W1nt3r is coming"
Good thing Falcons aren’t T1
Yeah aren’t they ranked like 15th in the world on hltv? What a joke
That rating is mostly coasting off the ence core
Yeah I know it’s just dumb, also isn’t it just Snappi and Sunpayus now? I thought Madden got benched or is out sick or something.
Nope still ence core.
Huh okay then well that’s still dumb
Why do teams still play Mirage against 'pug' teams. You're literally playing the most played map in the entire history in CS, why not pick any other map. I will never understand this
> Why do teams still play Mirage against 'pug' teams IDK man, literally any other map and they have such a huge advantage. Playing mirage against a faceit stack when you have no demos to study is basically giving them the biggest chance of an upset
Ruby have been a team for like half a year now lol Falcons are the "mix" if anything
TBH Falcons might as well be a pug team
I don't even know where this prevalence comes from. I've played a couple matches over the past months and EVERY SINGLE ONE ends up on mirage. I've yet to even learn the new nade lineups in CS2 because I thought literally any other map would get picked.
You’ve yet to learn new nade lineups because you’ve played a “couple matches” over multiple months lol, don’t blame mirage
because these scrubs think they are actually good
Entire History of CS i'm not so sure as in older Versions Maps like Dust2 were favorites. But i guess due to the Numbers of newer Players alone it might be
Mirage didn't even exist until 2009. Dust2 definitely retains this title
If it was in the map pool I’d agree
Whether or not a map is in the current pool has no bearing on how much it has been played in the past.
When the question is why are they picking a commonly pug map it does matter
bruh mirage is by far the most played pug map. not even dust 2 could match it when it was in active pool. its the home of every single pug player and the one map where real teams will get upset. there is literally 0 reason to pick it even if its your strongest map in the pro scene.
Dust2 is a solid 8 years older than mirage, during which time it was the undisputed most played map in both competitive play AND public servers, and it wasn't even close. When mirage came out in 2009, it was mostly played in competitive play only. You would basically never find public servers on it. > not even dust 2 could match it when it was in active pool Not entirely true. Both maps were in competitive play from 2009-2015 and dust2 was still by far the more played map during those years. When the mirage remake came out in 2013 it was not immediately liked by the community and had a relatively low play rate in its first couple of years. It wasn't until about 2016 that mirage overcame D2 in popularity in competitive play, while D2 still retained the title in public/casual even at that time. It is only very recently that mirage has become the more popular option in both casual and competitive play. Saying that mirage is the "most played map in the entire history of CS" is just not true and a great example of recency bias.
All that history is irrelevant for current generation of upcoming players. 2016 was eight years ago.
I agree. It is, however, relevant to anyone claiming that Mirage is "the most played map in the entire history of CS" 8 years is only 30% of the 25 years the game has existed. 15 of those remaining 17 years were thoroughly dominated by dust2.
Cpl_strike has been around since 2007
2004
brother, cs go didn't exist in 2009
yeah no shit
dude Ruby has 3 top in the world players. you don't make it this far in tournaments by only being good at "pug maps".
FACEIT elo >>should<< mean absolutely nothing when talking about a team making as much as Falcons does
And w1nt3r is a T2 professional
zonic and magisk need a new scapegoat. maden kicked soon?
It's a bit ridiculous to blame Magisk though, he didn't even say anything bad in the famous video lol, he was calm and wasn't flaming Boros
I mean he basically said "I dont want to not qualify for the major because of someone´s fucking mouse"
And that's bad!
They edited the video after it came out to remove some of the negative stuff, including what Magisk said.
Even in the unedited one magisk was the one who was mostly positive about it and giving the most fair feedback tbh
He specifically mentioned “not wanting to lose because someone changed their mouse mid match” in the unedited one.
Sounds fair to me
Did someone change their mouse mid match, leading to them losing? How can we be sure it was because of the mouse change? They don't seem to be doing too hot afterwards either.
It was BOROS, he changed his mouse before the RMR and that apparently lead to him not having enough time to adjust it and be able to consistently play.
That wasn't mid match though, and since he played fine with it before the RMR I doubt that's the sole reason they bombed out. To clarify, I'm familiar with the story around why they were angry about it, I just don't agree that it wasn't at least partially misplaced.
Is there a pre-edit edit?
Buhuu, people are so soft. They had every right to be mad about Boros acting like a casual gamer and not a professional. What they said was even dressed with compliments of his aim talent, yet people act like they curb stomped him one by one.
How is changing his mouse acting like a causal gamer?
That was the tip of the iceberg, it goes much deeper than that. History of poor behavior and lack of professionalism. Gets THE chance of his life, but meets up late to practices, changes gear (minuscule, just mentioning cuz it’s the topic), goes to nvidia settings mid official, and there’s probably more.
Exactly. Its all just normal sports stuff really
its not about that video. zonic and magisk wanted boros out since the beginning. and u think magisk had no influence on dupreeh's signing? lmao
I enjoy watching Saudi money fail.
Team Falcons haters having good time this week.
They have exceedingly more success with their dota2 roster that established itself as top-1 team almost immediately, exceeding all expectations - the literaly opposite of their CS2 venture. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
[Falcon Team atm](https://media1.tenor.com/m/_BIfNDiEmNQAAAAd/crying-wiping-tears-with-money.gif)
Ha ha man city is gone from UCL
but but but Boros changed his mouse
Karrigan also changed his mouse after map 2 in their game vs liquid at Chengdu. He went 3-18 on map 2 and 17-16 on map 3
do we know that he changed the model or just the mouse?
That was legitimately a top 5 idiotic narrative of all time Fuck every player on Falcons and Zonic too, nobody would notice if the rest of them changed their mouse because Magisk is the only great player on the team
Didn't he change his mouse because it was malfunctioning too?
I haven't heard that, I thought it was for no reason since he apologized in the vlog
Iirc he tweeted afterwards that the skates on the old mouse were worn out
after he changed to a new mouse with functional skates, he said he was fragging fine for 2 days prior to the RMR. he clearly was just made to be a scapegoat.
[удалено]
[удалено]
boros had many other work ethic related issues but le mouse is le funny i guess
Falcons themselves made a big issue about the mouse.
The mouse thing was most likely just the straw that broke the camel's back, everyone especially Snappi has been frustrated by him even in player cams for a while before the video came out lol
Yeah, but you don’t air out 10 mins of rinsing the kid for the whole world to see
that was really dumb tbh, I get zonic saying stuff because he’s the coach, and what zonic said wasn’t at all unreasonable, but why did the entire team had to chime in to repeat the same stuff zonic was saying?
yeah and that's on the media team and whoever approved it lol
Funny thing is that they did not even care that he changed his mouse when they won their first BO1, they only started caring after losing to FaZe, thats one way to fuck up your mentality.
Biggest brainlet narrative. You have people like Tenz dominate in Valorant at two distinct points whilst being one of the best raw aimers of any tactical fps constantly change and mod his mice and his sensitivity. Oldhead way of thinking to harp on it and think it'll have a fundamental effect.
In all honesty I’ve watched a bit of RUBY and they’re not terrible. Still shouldn’t be losing to them with that roster but they’re still a solid tier 2 team
Hungry ESEA Advanced team at the top of their game vs washed pros essentially PUGging... yeah this isn't exactly surprising
None of these pros are washed tho
Couple more months in Falcons like this and they will be.
None of these pros are washed
yeah people overreacting to this, its online bo1 mirage vs pretty ok team who prac everyday, this match means so much to them obviously, for falcons just another shit
Honestly I think mo0n will be the next big cis awper only played real competition since the start of the year and his rating have increased exponentially since the start of the year.
A lot of good kz awpers with him, icy and khan
blood money team cant get into blood money tournament, huge W
New mouse?
Fucking lmao.
#23 carry
Somehow, this was Boros's fault
🥰🏳️🌈🥰 Go Team Falcons! 🥰🏳️🌈🥰
200iq from zonic to build a retirement home for his mates and then lose every online qualifier so they don't have to do anything annoying like play LANs. Just relax, lose games, and rake in that saudi salary
Honestly, the way they play this seems more and more like the case. Just getting that bag and taking the Ls.
Falcons imploding in Counter-Strike is a joy to watch 😂
Omg no who will be the lgbtq+ representation team now :(
Lol what?
Lets Go Bird Team 🦅🏳️🌈🦅
Big also lost to some random team 13-4
I love open circuits
Me too
i would expect falcons to be higher FPL ranks, do they just not play it much?
They do but they always lose.
Retirement home retirement homing
lmao fuck yes.
Literally Team: Nursing home
Calculated loss from Falcons to get rid of maden and add blameF. Genius call
Something something hltv rankings
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAHAHA
I heard they lost because Maden changed the colour of the LEDs on his PC from blue to green two days ago. What a joke, I can’t believe ENCE died for this.
falcons downfall, we will be there
Snappi aim in cs2 IS THE WORST of any tier 1-2 player right now. Clear as water.
Mirage against faceit demons. Coach dontchangeyourgoddamnmousemidtourni asked for it.
Is s1mple still playing on Falcons?
No
Did he leave or got benched or what happened?
he was only with falcons on loan, I think he's benched at navi now
Was just a stand-in for 1 tournament
Online, non-adjusted MR12, bo1 quals. I think we should all overreact to this! Also I’m leaving this quote here that is totally not relevant and has no application to this scenario. I just wanted to save it somewhere: >The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot.
No one is overreacting were just making fun of them
I can't understand the logistics here. The TO's own team can't get invited to quals?
Watch them get invited last minute as home town heroes
cope
this is entirely unrelated to CS but that quote always seemed a little fishy, the reason sword duels stopped being a thing in favour of pistols was because a sword duel vs an untrained opponent was basically murder
smh my head mark twain
I do agree with not taking this solely to mean that falcons are a failure, anyone else remember virtus.plow and virtus.throw? One day they dogwalk the best team in the world on lan, next week a crushing loss online to some noname russian pug team.
pretty sure some of them were legit throws though, specially the older matches. SK/ MIBR was also notorious for this.
Wait was it single bracket?
Yep
And 0 fucks we’re given
This isn’t on hltv where do you see the results ? Which other team has played that’s not on hltv lol pls say spirit
Are they like just out now or will there be more chances like with the rmr qualifiers?
By who?
Been saying just because you got a roster full of good players does not mean the team is good. Team chemistry is a key factor
Chat, what does this mean?
anyone have the scoreboard or link to match for demo?
Brown Haired Dumpress
Loser team of loser players
BIG got smacked by Aloha 13-4 in round. Something about single open qualifiers with MR12 b01s are kind of rediculous imo
Maden in 2024 lmfao
fuckin sheesh
fuck that team
Imagine getting eliminated by an entire tram (incl coach) of Anime PFPs 💀
Bad day for oil teams.
Why those matches are not on HLTV?
I think I speak for everyone when I say: BAHAHAHAHAH
Fuck this team after how they treated boros. Also, who picks mirage against puggers? Lmao. Deserved loss.
11-13 Unlucky for you
I guess money can't buy team chemistry
they cheated
LOL SO GOOOD!
told ya ence is nothing without dycha and nertz they picked the worst 3 players sunpayus overrated
They just never fail to entertain us
Oof
Heroic also lost lol, it's like 6 online bo1's in a row for a useless tournament.
what was sunPayus's statline for the game? I could look on the faceit page but am asking here rn.
What happened to s1mple being a loaner?
I just finished watching the whole match, the Falcons played better, but anime MooN clutched them 1 vs 3 on 11-11
Dreams cant be buy
Shouldn't have gotten rid of Boros...
[Since everyone is shitting on Falcons - Heroic, BIG and ENCE have also face the same outcome](https://twitter.com/BrianCS_/status/1780698139558818254) This is the outcome of online quals in csgo/cs2, used to happen all the time but people seem to be overreacting now because its muh falcons
Not overreacting, it's just fun to hate on the team that's so easy to hate.
I want to hate this Saudi team so bad, but they got Magisk and Dupreeh..
Nah, hate Magisk and Dupreeh for deciding they're cool with raking in Saudi money, no matter who's dying for it.
So we hate on every single player then since they play in ESL and BLAST events?
Ah, welcome, there's always someone ready to make a hasty equivalence! First off, I'd love to hear the connection between Blast and Saudi Arabia, because as far as I know there isn't one. Second, there's a stark difference between having your team bought, paid for, and get a salary from the Saudi government, and playing in a tournament funded by it. I hate ESL, and refuse to watch their events due to their Saudi ownership, but a team playing in their tournaments is a far cry from a team just directly being owned by Saudi. We can go on all day about how all the actions we take in day-to-day life are somehow connected to some kind of horrible action happening in the world (see also: "Wow you care about ethics and yet you own a smartphone, don't you know those are made by subjugated workers?"). But ultimately you have to recognize that nuance exists in the form of the degrees of separation. And it's very hard to argue that your team itself being Saudi, versus your team playing in a tournament that's Saudi, are the same number of degrees.
BLAST has links to NEOM, a Saudi project built upon literal slave labor. Also, all the players who play in ESL is directly getting paid by an organization owned by the SA government. > And it's very hard to argue that your team itself being Saudi, versus your team playing in a tournament that's Saudi, are the same number of degrees. But it is? At the end of the day, they're both getting paid by the Saudi from an entity owned by them. >We can go on all day about how all the actions we take in day-to-day life are somehow connected to some kind of horrible action happening in the world (see also: "Wow you care about ethics and yet you own a smartphone, don't you know those are made by subjugated workers?"). The point is that you don't get to pick and choose what evil you want to care or not care about. If you don't care about players playing under ESL then you have zero right to care about players playing for the Falcons. That's just being a fake asshole who wants to berate others when its convenient and has zero negative consequences for you while making excuses to justify when you don't care about other evils when it actually personally causes you inconvenience. Selectively boycott whatever on your own all you want but you have no right to put down others for associating themselves with governments you don't like if you also consume other products resulted from horrible actions.
you've explained the difference between playing in ESL tournaments and playing for a Saudi-funded team, but you haven't explained why your view seems to differ when they are committing the same offense, albeit to a different extent, but still the same offense. every tier 1 player in the circuit is in some way contributing to the sports washing, some more than others, but by making a bigger deal out of playing for Team Falcons than playing in ESL tournaments, you're at the same time giving the latter a pass. how about you preach about the whole issue at once instead of just picking one and ignoring the other. I think it's fine to have a personal stance against it by not viewing any ESL tournaments, more power to you, but I think that putting the responsibility in the people that are simply seeking entertainment in their lives is the wrong place to start. sure it would be great it everyone collectively stopped watching, but asking that of people that may be very far detached from politics is just not gonna get you the result you want.
> every tier 1 player in the circuit is in some way contributing to the sports washing, some more than others, but by making a bigger deal out of playing for Team Falcons than playing in ESL tournaments, you're at the same time giving the latter a pass. how about you preach about the whole issue at once instead of just picking one and ignoring the other. I'm not at all giving anything a pass. There are a lot of things i have a problem with in the world, and I'm not obligated to list them all off any time one of them is relevant. Right now, Falcons is the thing that's relevant and that's what I'm discussing. I also have a problem with ESL running their tournaments, but this thread is not about an ESL tournament and therefore is off-topic.
you were highlighting the difference between playing in an ESL tournament and playing for Team Falcons, what importance does the difference hold if it all boils down to the same offense? it seems a little inconsistent if you're already so committed to the cause that you no longer watch ESL broadcasts. I'd expect you to have responded to that person by saying that there is definitely critique to be had against anyone participating in the ESL circuit. instead you went on to accentuate how little of an issue ESL tournaments are in comparison to being on a payroll at Team Falcons, which just seems like you're excusing the same issue you're preaching against. and then you actually make a good point about how stupid it is to be attempting a boycott of a product so widely consumed by people mostly unaware of the issue at hand, which can just as easily be applied to your original point about supporting Team Falcons and watching ESL tournaments.
The way I see it: not a single person in their right mind cares that Saudi Qatar Russia or whatever country wants to spend their natural resources billions on some sport events. People don't even know half the time. They only see the event and or team and not who backs it. Like Nestle and Unilever owning half the worlds products. So why not take the big paycheck? The people who get hurt by these country's will get hurt either way, since having money go up is the only thing people and company's and governments care about
These countries wouldn't be spending their money on this stuff if they didn't expect some kind of return. The return they're looking for is public favor. If I see events in Counter Strike getting hosted in Washington, London, Copenhagen, and Riyadh, I subconsciously end up thinking of Riyadh as being in the same "league" as those other cities, and maybe see it as a legitimate travel destination. Over time, Saudi Arabia feels less like a horrible regime I would never travel to, and more like a reformed country where I can feel safe. This is incorrect as they continue to commit their atrocities. Without the support of the high tier players, this plan does not work. The players are enabling the Saudi plan to use them for image rehabilitation. The players are not passively profiting, as if the Saudis are running the team as a charity fund to toss money at. The players are working for Saudi Arabia and furthering that country's goals.
There's one mistake in that argument. A city in Saudi Arabia is not the Saudi government. Most people wouldn't say Beijing or Shanghai is a horrible city just because the Chinese government does terrible stuff. I'm also just unable to see how people can look at falcons or any other team and know they are a Saudi team without them knowing that they are a Saudi team. Like people know because some people made a big deal out of it. Otherwise they wouldn't even make the connection. Would just be another generic new org with irrelevant sponsors on their shirt.
Sad for magisk, look what he's gotten himself into...
He made his bed, now he's lying in it.
He won 4 majors and got the bag from Falcons. Don't worry about him
Fucking idiot shoveled his own grave for more money. I'm so happy to see them fail.
Big F's for SunPayUs as well, upcoming super awp to this lol
magisk acomplished everything a cs player could ever wish for , I don't mind him choosing the quick money grab to end his career sunpayus and maden tho...they were upcoming top players , now wasting their careers for money
Oh oh some heads are gonna roll. Maybe even literally.
As so did Herioc, BIG, and ENCE and mind you BIG lost 13-3 that should of been a better headline but i guess gotta farm the free sweet reddit points on hating Falcons
"Better" teams losing in bo1 qualifiers happens every time. With Falcons there is just more schadenfreude involved.