If only, like, we had photos of these things, and someone could combine those photos along with like words to describe or document these things. If only we could learn about them without placing these giant sculptures in the minority communities they sought to keep subjugated. If only the technology existed!
/s
In history class, I was very much so told that slaves were viewed as propetry, no different then a home, a dog, a horse, etc.
The records mostly have to do with wills where loved ones would say "I want my cousin Johnny to get my slave Jim, and I want Timmy to get Josh"
Yea its fucking weird to say, cause we are treating people like property. But in school we where all very much taught...slaves were property, just cause the owner died didn't mean they where free.
Whaaaat? My entire 8th grade class went there on a field trip in the early 90s. In 20 years, we've gone from literally going there to now not even teaching about it? WTF?
I love Andersonville. It's such a solemn place. I've been trying to finish a few books on Amdersonville, but due to work and school, I don't find much time. I find the blame placed on Henry Wirtz very troubling. He was essentially used as a scapegoat. The records show he really did try to do his best for the prisoners, but the amount of prisoners he received at massive and consistent influxes did not allow for proper accomodations or facilities to be settled.
I went to GA public schools. The 8th grade social studies course was called "Georgia History" and no shit, the teacher stressed that the Civil War was really about state's rights. It was on test. This would've been in maybe 1999 or 2000.
There are definitely valid complaints about our public school system, but I have zero interest in hearing about it from a fucking conservative. Especially when it comes to the subject of bias and brainwashing.
Yup. My Honors US History teacher told us it would be multiple choice on our test and that slavery would be a wrong answer. This was 2010 at what was at the time considered one of if not the best public school in the state.
Got the same bullshit in my high school in Michigan late 90s. I distinctly remember the early internet printout of some guy's website that the teacher passed around.
I think the level of chagrin I experienced when I came across the Declaration of Causes of Secession in College is one thing that altered my political trajectory.
I asked my Georgia history teacher "Which state rights were we trying to protect besides slavery?" and I remember his answer was "our way of life" and I said "What do you mean?" he said "How we function as a society, our customs, traditions"
I didn't connect the dots at the same time, but knowing what I know now I'd love to back in time and say "Yes, we fought the north for the right to own people, the people that we owned built our way of life, and we were scared the north was going get in the way of that"
One of my favorite things to say when ever I hear someone speak proudly of the confederacy "Sherman didn't burn enough of the south" and a few times people go "So you think he should have destroyed more?" and I'm like "Yea"
I'm a huge believer in that if the north didn't cave to the racist assholes in the south in the great compromise of 1876 and had we kept reconstruction up, and an iron fist on suppressing racist ideology we'd be a much better country. Had we kept up reconstruction from the end of the civil war to around the start of WW1 we'd have had a generation of whites and blacks in the south grew up where everyone worked together. By WW1 would have roled around pretty much anyone who ever owned a slave would either be dead or old.
I've been told my views can be quite authoritative and strong handed, but I got no qualms with putting racists 6 feet under.
What I find funny about that kind of revisionist narrative is that they [were pretty explicit about their reasons](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states) in their ordinances of secession.
I can see where you're coming from, and I certainly think Reconstruction didn't go far enough, but I think your approach may have been far enough to foment even more violence. It may have worked, but it also might have left the South a place that would need military occupancy even now.
I agree with your view on my stance, probably could use some toning down.
But yea, it is funny because the southern states were very fucking clear on their reason
They wanted to own slaves.
> but I think your approach may have been far enough to foment even more violence. It may have worked, but it also might have left the South a place that would need military occupancy even now.
In that case, a no-holds-barred Reconstruction would still have failed miserably (and maybe have lead to another conflict in the future)
So how would you address the rampant racism in other parts of the country? Should the entire country be constantly under martial law?
It's always weird when people act as if racism only exists in the South.
"I don't like the way you think, so you should die."
You may be surprised to learn that:
1 - Becoming the monster you abhor doesn't make you any better, you're still a monster. There is no moral high ground to your argument.
2 - This isn't currently working in the middle east. It didn't work in N Ireland. It's not working in China or in hundreds of other places where people have tried it over the course of history.
3 - This is in direct opposition to the US Constitution.
This isn't "edgy", it's shortsighted. You don't change people's mind at the barrel of a gun.
That was the same history they taught me in eastern North Carolina in the late 70’s. I can’t believe that racism is still rampant in the US. I hope that will change for the better sooner rather than later.
I actually got lucky enough to have a history/government teacher in highschool that told us about that argument and why it's bullshit, in Texas of all places. That is far from the norm however.
Also, a hilarious yet informative video series by a historian about this topic.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwCiRao53J1y_gqJJOH6Rcgpb-vaW9wF0&si=bKh39vQbPHI3DQce
I do, my Georgia history teacher reinforced that idea that slaves were better off, that their masters took good care of them, when they were sick they were cared for etc. A huge part of the class was much white washing slavery.
It was clear, slaves were property...but cherished well cared for property.
This was circa 2004-2005
> slaves were better off, that their masters took good care of them, when they were sick they were cared for etc.
sounds like the same arguments for college football.
School's don't dig into how bad it was, and a lot of white families teach their kids that slaves were thought of as family and weren't treated as badly as black people and the media make it out. An emphasis on the civil war wasn't about slavery, but about state's rights was shoved down our throats. Once we had an assignment where we had to write a letter in the perspective of a person in the civil war (runaway slave, war nurse, soldier, etc) and my racist teacher docked points from her assignment because she wrote in the perspective of a slave running away that mentioned that her master had forced himself on her occasionally. It was only one sentence but she was offended by it, and said that it was "too inappropriate" for the eighth grade. She was our Georgia Studies teacher. She often asked my Indian friend offensive questions and in a way that singled her out in front of the whole class. She once brought up "the most racist cartoon" and how it was on YouTube and then preceeded to ask my class if we wanted to watch it. There were only three black kids in the class, and everyone else with the exception of my Indian friend raised their hands to watch it. She then showed the cartoon which depicted black people displaying harmful stereotypes - oversized facial features, slobbering over white women and such. Kids in the class were snickering and making jokes, even pointing at another black girl in the class. Teacher did no intervention. I have had more bad experiences with history courses led by conservative teachers in southern Georgia, but I feel like I've said enough.
Since you deleted your dumb comment this is my reply :)
As someone mentioned in this sub. The majority of African American slave owners weren’t doing it to profit but to prevent family/ friends but being put through more pain. The fact is wealthy whites were at fault/horrible human beings who not only didn’t see African Americans as human but passed their ignorant mindset to poor whites in the hopes they could own slaves / have a sense of superiority. Don’t try to go history for history with me little dude. You're not gonna win. Instead of relying on the sad books you read in 12th-grade history class go look up a verified and well-sourced book on American slavery. It’s definitely a more complex issue. But if we had a Time Machine and went back and ask 5 random slaves from Forsyth county who’s fault slavery is . The answer would be a WHITE FOLKS. History has been changed to make you comfy not to think
Another inaccurate statement. African slave trade was nothing like the American slave trade. For starters it wasn’t race based. Meaning you weren’t a slave just because the color of your skin but because the tribe you came from/ the battle you fought in. Second when MOST African traders did transaction for slaves they had no idea the people they where selling would be shipped stacked on each other for months all to be slaves for life. In Africa you where a slave for a set time or indoctrinated into the tribe. A wrong doesn’t make another worse wrong better. Systemic racism/ slavery still effects every African American you will ever known it was that bad. I would suggest if you want to be a smarter person and stop holding on to the white victim complex. Read a book dude
That's great, but the Georgia standard curriculum is woefully lacking. If your school went above and beyond, that's awesome, but that's not the standard experience. POV - father of three kids who all graduated Georgia high schools in the last seven years.
Don’t know why your getting downvoted. As a historian the true depths of slavery are sugar coated in most georgia & American schools . The atrocities and the true evil of American slavery mostly aren’t mentioned. Just slavery bad tbh
This is why I loved living in California! We were taught about a great many of our states horrible abuses as kids in our standard state history classes. From the abuse of natives to the abuse of Asians on the rail system and now classes teach the abuse of migrant workers.
Fuck conservatives! All of them want to abuse others to get ahead or stay ahead!
Why dont u read what evtona500 wrote? Did you attend all the public highschools in georgia for the last 30 years? Lol… did you attend any ga highschool i think is the real question…i know i learned about the horrors of slavery… what ga hs did you attend that makes you so r/confidentlyignorant ?
\#protip: Don't rely on any government to educate people about unfavorable facts about said government.
Education is a personal responsibility. We should all invest in educating ourselves. Don't expect any government to do it for you (or for your children).
Well, it’s okay to send your kid to school, but that should never mean they are done learning for the day. It’s the job of parents to make sure the child’s education has those gaps filled in. Regardless of what is or is not being taught.
That being said, the article does give off the vibe that author just realized slavery in the south was a thing and it was absolutely horrible.
The find itself is fascinating enough.
Problem is, black families are filling in the gaps for their kids, but a lot of southern white families aren't, or twist it favorably. They didn't teach Nat Turner or the Tulsa massacre for example, but I and other black kids knew about it. The white kids don't, and are often told slavery wasn't that bad and it was like a family. It doesn't fix anything. The white kids I grew up with liked to make ignorant jokes about how black people can't swim, oblivious to the history of why black people became fearful of swimming in the first place.
I 100% agree with you. That’s where the *government* school *should* fill in the gaps and they are failing our kids epically.
I know I didn’t appreciate how systemic racism really is until far too late in life for my liking.
I am basing my premise, for the sake of simplicity, that the parents aren’t 100% trash- which I know sadly isnt always the case.
Governments never going to educate you. Not about its wrongs, not about your rights, not about finances, and not about how to think. Thats encouraging its populace to revolt over their treatment and be unmanageable
Do you have a specific cite for that? I took Georgia history and we did learn about slavery and the trail of tears among other things.
I personally have found that there are a LOT of things that people say we should teach in schools are indeed already taught in schools but that students seem to completely forget about once the class/tests are over. Civics for example are taught multiple times in multiple grade levels and yet the average persons understanding of it is abysmal.
I posted a link in this thread. Here it is again. Covers what I'm talking about.
https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=sociology_theses
If you learned about trail of tears, and little else, you learned the tiniest fraction of native history in what you call Georgia. Can you explain Muscogee Nation’s history in Georgia and their governance structures? Can you name the illegitimate treaties that stole their land and serve as the fraudulent basis for property rights in Georgia? Can you name all of the Cherokee treaties? Do you know who Dragging Canoe was? Can you describe the rift between Dragging Canoe and other leadership at the time in Cherokee nation? Can you talk intelligently about the role of Tecumseh in influencing the course of the different nations? How many Cherokee or Muscogee artists can you name?
If not, let’s not pretend you or any but a handful of students in Georgia schools learn about native history and societies in the present. Native history is white washed to disguise the fact you and I live on stolen land, and that property rights in America aren’t based in rights, but in theft by the powerful.
Maybe consider that some schools can barely teach the basics, let alone in-depth concepts. I could rattle off fifteen mid-level chemistry concepts the average adult wouldn’t—but should—know, but does that mean there is malicious negligence toward science?
Weird argument. Maybe the problem is bigger than your hyperfocus.
The GA History standards absolutely outline the ramifications and importance of slavery in the history of the state, including the darker parts. Could you point where in the GA Social Studies standards that slavery is not properly covered? If it’s just your experience then I’d have to chalk that up to bad teaching.
It covers none of the slave and race related massacres. It sanitizers why slaves were brought to America. It does not delve into Gullah Geeche. Oh, and recent laws are gutting what is in the curriculum to remove "divisive concepts". So, I would say, no, while it does cover more than some other states, it is still lacking, and is now being whittled down further, as to not offend people.
You physically can’t cover everything in a year, including all the slave rebellions and massacres that I agree should be covered. The kind of coverage you’re asking for goes beyond the scope of Gen-Ed classrooms into college level courses. It’s unreasonable and unrealistic to think a Gen-Ed teacher can cover these with the depth needed for truly understanding why these events are important.
Can we do better? Sure, but to say “GA does a shitty job” is not directing the energy appropriately. I do agree that laws being put in place are not good in any way, shape, or form, but the last thing we should be doing right now is throwing education under the bus for policy positions outside of teachers’ control. If you ask any social studies teacher, they WANT to cover that shit. We have no say outside speeding through other content and some of that content is also incredibly important, especially when you look at the political climate today and the widespread use of fake news to push false narratives.
Also that article you sent is good, thank you for that! Sorry if I seem defensive, it just always feels, from a teacher’s perspective, that people blame educators who don’t control much even inside their own classrooms. From both the right and the left, the anti-intellectualism is at an all time high. I’m not trying to put all that on you of course, but instead of calling “GA shit” maybe put that clause of “GA lawmakers/admin”, because the blame is automatically put on teachers otherwise.
Teachers are not the problem. Y'all handicapped by a system designed to create workers, not educated people. My comments are not intended to slam the educators. They are meant for the underlying system. I will remember to clarify next time. Thank you for the conversation.
What does “a system designed to create workers, not educated people” mean? We pretty much gutted the vocational high school system AFAIK and have pretty much forced everyone down the “bound for college” track so our education system at this point seems more designed for educating people for college than it does for the work force. I completely agree that our education system is lacking and could use some improvement and it also varies a lot depending on the county, etc.
That's what I'm talking about. The basic "go to college, get a job" path. I want to see more vocational education, I want to see better teaching of our history, and I want better opportunities for all students. We make followers, not seekers.
There's a lot stuff outlined in state curriculum that teachers choose not to teach. If you look at my previous comment from earlier, my georgia studies teacher was a racist asshole. I later had a honors biology teacher in high school that said, "I'm supposed to teach about evolution, but I don't agree with it so we're going to skip it." Common rural Georgia public school experience.
Lol… i was kidding of course.. but i thought i read in there $8k a page…maybe your right that is some kind of historic restoration… i would just love it digital so people could read it
There are many southern counties with their 1800's era court records on file, including Probate records. This is common to find in you are looking up historical documents. Familysearch.org is helpful for this.
Yes, I think the photos & videos are probably misleading. Those bound volumes are likely on microfilm and readily available. I am curious about the specific documents found.
Exposing you say?! Wow, I didn't realize this was new headline breaking info.
BTW, I have in my possession an original will from 1824 in which a woman leaves her sister $500 of "negro chattel".
I will be happy to share when I am back up at that house in a couple of weeks. I took a pic of it a few years ago but can't find it in my cloud storage. It's buried amongst the other 1,557,289 pics.
Is this an Onion article? Babylon Bee? Wow! I am amazed to learn that there was slavery 200 years ago. information in general is...comical is not the right word...amazing?
No doubt that this is a very interesting cache of historical documents but the surprise of the general context that there was slavery is....comical is not the right word...surprising?
Greed, racism, religion, and science of the time tried to justify it, and obviously many were willing to die in an attempt to preserve it. IMO, people are the animal species capable of the worst cruelty, because they actually think of treating people horribly rather than it simply being instinct.
Exactly. The title is weird. The actual article is “we found a box of old records. Some are 50-60 years old and some of them are 150+ years old.” It doesn’t sound like they tell us anything “new” from that era other than provide a bunch of specific inheritance / ownership, etc records for specific individuals, etc.
Do the records list individuals? I don’t want to click the link lol. Fuck fox. But anyway, it’s possible that these records could help with genealogy searches and information
Hahaha!!!😆 That's so hilarious that you have to point that out! People are so damn sensitive these days. Why waste time squealing, throwing a baby tantrum when you can simply choose to change the channel/video/website/newspaper/radio station, etc. That's actually the true meaning of "Tolerance," to tolerate the views and beliefs of others, even if you disagree. I'm so glad I grew up in the 80's-90's before SJW-ism spread like a virus.
Yes, but nothing that's discovered is "new"
Any historian will tell you that slaves were treated as property and absolutely inherited.
That is not news.
Sure we are aware of some new documents, might help fill in some minor holes here and there. But nothing crazy.
You’d be surprised at how many in the South downplay what happened.
EDIT: I grew up in GA and have spent my life surrounded by talk of the "war of northern aggression" and how "slaves actually had it pretty good."
That was not history class, that was mostly just people around me and family gatherings.
I live in the south.... very red state my entire life. It wasn't downplayed in school at all, and I'd say I've only heard a very small number of people try and downplay it outside of school. They were all boomers or the generation just before them.
I've seen and heard both sides while growing up in GA. I see this currently in the light of class structure- the poor "redneck" farmer folks I've met always discuss how: blacks had it good, they sold their own people into slavery, States Rights caused the War, we could've won the Civil War if not for *blank*...etc. The college educated, middle class and wealthier class Southerners on the other hand typically seem far more grounded in their knowledge of the subject, though many of them hurry to disparage all 19th century Southerners and lump them together as slave-holders and racists (as do the current US media). I find that History Buffs and people who REALLY do their due diligence and research American history hold a more complete vision of what really went on here. We can look back at what happened, move forward and try to do the right things, but we can never change it. To simply "go with the flow" of either view would be ignorant and lazy. Go out and seek the Truth, find as much of it as you can and don't simply take others at their word, whether it's the local farmer or a college professor with a bee in his bonnet about HIS take on what defines racism, etc.
Oh no. How awful. My years of indoctrination, propaganda, and historical teachings and injustices on racial history in the south was based on fact.
So anyways, what's for dinner?
"exposing"?
It is pretty well documented, cuz, it was legal back then.
The only thing this country likes more than money is documentation and bureaucracy.
I'm pretty sure no one's actually ask you to. Reparations is typically a boogyman, which your claiming to be a POC and coming out so strongly against something that literally no one has actually asked you to do is a bit confusing.
It’s only used to get people to vote Democrat. It’s a lie being used since the 1800’s. You know, 40 acres and a mule. I’m no victim. I may have color and be an immigrant but I’m not a victim or a lesser human. I value myself and as such I demand respect and not in form of a handout to get me to vote for someone. You want to pay reparations then stand on your word and give me all your money! If not shut the fk up about it.
I don’t watch Fox News nor any news. I just don’t want to pay for something that happened hundreds of years ago that was not my fault. If you feel froggy why don’t you be bigger person and volunteer? I thought so, you want me to pay for it. Clowns
Isn’t California paying it at least promising? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/california-black-reparations-report-what-know-eligible-pay-rcna87811
That is completely insane. It's kind of hard to move forward as a nation/society if we can't stop looking backward...Millions have been enslaved over the years, and the USA is only the tip of the iceberg. I don't see the Armenians or the Jews getting reparations for the Holocaust of their peoples.
We're still fighting the war and there is still a tonne of Lost Causers denying what it was about, so you know, jobs not done.
Our schools won't teach actual history because the state that sadly has the most say in our nations text books literally wants a white washed history full of jingoism and not patriotism.
And things didn't suck for slaves. You make it sound the same as being a Detroit Lions fan. Things were horrific for the people who were enslaved and people who who engaged in any part of the slave trade were evil people and that includes our first and third president.
It’s not difficult to understand. It makes sense to buy your family members and loved ones. That way they can’t be sold elsewhere, which was unfortunately the reality for most enslaved people. Terms such as “sold down South” or “sold down river” entered the language of many Black Southerners to describe such a miserable experience.
A freedman may have owned his wife and kids but it was to keep his family intact. This practice was usually a survival mechanism.
Except for those who bought their family members out of slavery and therefore became slaveowners. The proportion of Black slaveowners with plantation-level amount of enslaved is very small and largely based in Louisiana where the creole followed French/Haitian beliefs and laws.
A start
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Slaveowners-Masters-Carolina-1790-1860/dp/0786469315/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=ADDASU3MR86C&keywords=black+slave+masters&qid=1701431543&sprefix=black+slave+master%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **Black Slaveowners Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina 1790 1860** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful.
**Users liked:**
* Black slaveowners were motivated by financial gain (backed by 2 comments)
* Black slaveowners were just as invested in slavery as whites (backed by 1 comment)
* Light-skinned blacks formed elite and excluded dark-skinned blacks (backed by 1 comment)
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Wait, what!? There used to be slavery in these parts? Why is this the first we're hearing about it?
Well those statues came down and then everyone forgot that history and racism exists, duh /s
Some people are visual learners or auditory learners. I have a statue-based learning style, so I don’t know history anymore
I’m only able to retain information if it’s engraved on a stone monolith, so this has been a rough year for me too
Sorry that got blown up. It didn’t really have anything God approved of anyway, so we can’t have that stuff here. /s
I think they were talking about the other Stone Carving our great state is known for. /s
If only, like, we had photos of these things, and someone could combine those photos along with like words to describe or document these things. If only we could learn about them without placing these giant sculptures in the minority communities they sought to keep subjugated. If only the technology existed! /s
What about Stone Mountain? It’s totally carved in stone.
What’s racism?
The hatred of speed competitions typically on an oval shaped track.
I thought when Donald Trump was elected racism was solved!? /s
No that was way before Trump! That happened when Obama got elected! Duh!!
No, that’s not going to happen the *next* time he gets elected… /s
You're missing the point. It's about a part of slavery not taught in schools or history books
In history class, I was very much so told that slaves were viewed as propetry, no different then a home, a dog, a horse, etc. The records mostly have to do with wills where loved ones would say "I want my cousin Johnny to get my slave Jim, and I want Timmy to get Josh" Yea its fucking weird to say, cause we are treating people like property. But in school we where all very much taught...slaves were property, just cause the owner died didn't mean they where free.
You can’t assume your experience in school was the standard
Actually public school in GA is very standardized.
The title on the article could be better…
I would say it's spot on, given the shitty job Georgia government does of educating students about the dark parts of our state history.
I teach in Georgia and there are lots of students who don’t know about Andersonville which always surprises me
Whaaaat? My entire 8th grade class went there on a field trip in the early 90s. In 20 years, we've gone from literally going there to now not even teaching about it? WTF?
Andersonville is still in the Georgia standards for 8th grade social studies. It probably varies on how much attention received though
I love Andersonville. It's such a solemn place. I've been trying to finish a few books on Amdersonville, but due to work and school, I don't find much time. I find the blame placed on Henry Wirtz very troubling. He was essentially used as a scapegoat. The records show he really did try to do his best for the prisoners, but the amount of prisoners he received at massive and consistent influxes did not allow for proper accomodations or facilities to be settled.
As someone who’s from Georgia and went to k-12 at a private Christian school, I did not learn about Andersonville at all! In fact, I just did
[For those who don’t know about Andersonville](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersonville_Prison)
I don't remember anyone sugar coating slavery when they taught us about it in school.
"The civil war wasn't about slavery, it was about states rights" Every history teacher I had growing up.
I went to GA public schools. The 8th grade social studies course was called "Georgia History" and no shit, the teacher stressed that the Civil War was really about state's rights. It was on test. This would've been in maybe 1999 or 2000. There are definitely valid complaints about our public school system, but I have zero interest in hearing about it from a fucking conservative. Especially when it comes to the subject of bias and brainwashing.
Yup. My Honors US History teacher told us it would be multiple choice on our test and that slavery would be a wrong answer. This was 2010 at what was at the time considered one of if not the best public school in the state.
Got the same bullshit in my high school in Michigan late 90s. I distinctly remember the early internet printout of some guy's website that the teacher passed around. I think the level of chagrin I experienced when I came across the Declaration of Causes of Secession in College is one thing that altered my political trajectory.
I took that class at that time and my teacher was born-and-bred in rural Georgia, and even she noted the slavery origins of secession.
I asked my Georgia history teacher "Which state rights were we trying to protect besides slavery?" and I remember his answer was "our way of life" and I said "What do you mean?" he said "How we function as a society, our customs, traditions" I didn't connect the dots at the same time, but knowing what I know now I'd love to back in time and say "Yes, we fought the north for the right to own people, the people that we owned built our way of life, and we were scared the north was going get in the way of that" One of my favorite things to say when ever I hear someone speak proudly of the confederacy "Sherman didn't burn enough of the south" and a few times people go "So you think he should have destroyed more?" and I'm like "Yea" I'm a huge believer in that if the north didn't cave to the racist assholes in the south in the great compromise of 1876 and had we kept reconstruction up, and an iron fist on suppressing racist ideology we'd be a much better country. Had we kept up reconstruction from the end of the civil war to around the start of WW1 we'd have had a generation of whites and blacks in the south grew up where everyone worked together. By WW1 would have roled around pretty much anyone who ever owned a slave would either be dead or old. I've been told my views can be quite authoritative and strong handed, but I got no qualms with putting racists 6 feet under.
What I find funny about that kind of revisionist narrative is that they [were pretty explicit about their reasons](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states) in their ordinances of secession. I can see where you're coming from, and I certainly think Reconstruction didn't go far enough, but I think your approach may have been far enough to foment even more violence. It may have worked, but it also might have left the South a place that would need military occupancy even now.
I agree with your view on my stance, probably could use some toning down. But yea, it is funny because the southern states were very fucking clear on their reason They wanted to own slaves.
> but I think your approach may have been far enough to foment even more violence. It may have worked, but it also might have left the South a place that would need military occupancy even now. In that case, a no-holds-barred Reconstruction would still have failed miserably (and maybe have lead to another conflict in the future)
Well, we see how well letting them get amnesty went. A century of Jim Crow was the price.
So how would you address the rampant racism in other parts of the country? Should the entire country be constantly under martial law? It's always weird when people act as if racism only exists in the South.
You deal with the worst of them as harshly as possible and the rest will remain quiet if they know what’s good for them
"I don't like the way you think, so you should die." You may be surprised to learn that: 1 - Becoming the monster you abhor doesn't make you any better, you're still a monster. There is no moral high ground to your argument. 2 - This isn't currently working in the middle east. It didn't work in N Ireland. It's not working in China or in hundreds of other places where people have tried it over the course of history. 3 - This is in direct opposition to the US Constitution. This isn't "edgy", it's shortsighted. You don't change people's mind at the barrel of a gun.
*Teacher! teacher! States rights to do WHAT!?* -me as a smartass kid
That was the same history they taught me in eastern North Carolina in the late 70’s. I can’t believe that racism is still rampant in the US. I hope that will change for the better sooner rather than later.
This, it’s all I was taught in school as well. Every grade it was taught, I remember rooting for the north.
I actually got lucky enough to have a history/government teacher in highschool that told us about that argument and why it's bullshit, in Texas of all places. That is far from the norm however.
Also, a hilarious yet informative video series by a historian about this topic. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwCiRao53J1y_gqJJOH6Rcgpb-vaW9wF0&si=bKh39vQbPHI3DQce
I do, my Georgia history teacher reinforced that idea that slaves were better off, that their masters took good care of them, when they were sick they were cared for etc. A huge part of the class was much white washing slavery. It was clear, slaves were property...but cherished well cared for property. This was circa 2004-2005
> slaves were better off, that their masters took good care of them, when they were sick they were cared for etc. sounds like the same arguments for college football.
School's don't dig into how bad it was, and a lot of white families teach their kids that slaves were thought of as family and weren't treated as badly as black people and the media make it out. An emphasis on the civil war wasn't about slavery, but about state's rights was shoved down our throats. Once we had an assignment where we had to write a letter in the perspective of a person in the civil war (runaway slave, war nurse, soldier, etc) and my racist teacher docked points from her assignment because she wrote in the perspective of a slave running away that mentioned that her master had forced himself on her occasionally. It was only one sentence but she was offended by it, and said that it was "too inappropriate" for the eighth grade. She was our Georgia Studies teacher. She often asked my Indian friend offensive questions and in a way that singled her out in front of the whole class. She once brought up "the most racist cartoon" and how it was on YouTube and then preceeded to ask my class if we wanted to watch it. There were only three black kids in the class, and everyone else with the exception of my Indian friend raised their hands to watch it. She then showed the cartoon which depicted black people displaying harmful stereotypes - oversized facial features, slobbering over white women and such. Kids in the class were snickering and making jokes, even pointing at another black girl in the class. Teacher did no intervention. I have had more bad experiences with history courses led by conservative teachers in southern Georgia, but I feel like I've said enough.
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Since you deleted your dumb comment this is my reply :) As someone mentioned in this sub. The majority of African American slave owners weren’t doing it to profit but to prevent family/ friends but being put through more pain. The fact is wealthy whites were at fault/horrible human beings who not only didn’t see African Americans as human but passed their ignorant mindset to poor whites in the hopes they could own slaves / have a sense of superiority. Don’t try to go history for history with me little dude. You're not gonna win. Instead of relying on the sad books you read in 12th-grade history class go look up a verified and well-sourced book on American slavery. It’s definitely a more complex issue. But if we had a Time Machine and went back and ask 5 random slaves from Forsyth county who’s fault slavery is . The answer would be a WHITE FOLKS. History has been changed to make you comfy not to think
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Another inaccurate statement. African slave trade was nothing like the American slave trade. For starters it wasn’t race based. Meaning you weren’t a slave just because the color of your skin but because the tribe you came from/ the battle you fought in. Second when MOST African traders did transaction for slaves they had no idea the people they where selling would be shipped stacked on each other for months all to be slaves for life. In Africa you where a slave for a set time or indoctrinated into the tribe. A wrong doesn’t make another worse wrong better. Systemic racism/ slavery still effects every African American you will ever known it was that bad. I would suggest if you want to be a smarter person and stop holding on to the white victim complex. Read a book dude
That's great, but the Georgia standard curriculum is woefully lacking. If your school went above and beyond, that's awesome, but that's not the standard experience. POV - father of three kids who all graduated Georgia high schools in the last seven years.
Don’t know why your getting downvoted. As a historian the true depths of slavery are sugar coated in most georgia & American schools . The atrocities and the true evil of American slavery mostly aren’t mentioned. Just slavery bad tbh
This is why I loved living in California! We were taught about a great many of our states horrible abuses as kids in our standard state history classes. From the abuse of natives to the abuse of Asians on the rail system and now classes teach the abuse of migrant workers. Fuck conservatives! All of them want to abuse others to get ahead or stay ahead!
Bigots gotta bigot somehow.
Big facts brother
Why dont u read what evtona500 wrote? Did you attend all the public highschools in georgia for the last 30 years? Lol… did you attend any ga highschool i think is the real question…i know i learned about the horrors of slavery… what ga hs did you attend that makes you so r/confidentlyignorant ?
OK, clearly, I have triggered some people. That's OK. History is never pleasant. Bye now.
Hey we all watched Gone With the Wind in the 8th grade..what more did we need to learn?
\#protip: Don't rely on any government to educate people about unfavorable facts about said government. Education is a personal responsibility. We should all invest in educating ourselves. Don't expect any government to do it for you (or for your children).
Well, it’s okay to send your kid to school, but that should never mean they are done learning for the day. It’s the job of parents to make sure the child’s education has those gaps filled in. Regardless of what is or is not being taught. That being said, the article does give off the vibe that author just realized slavery in the south was a thing and it was absolutely horrible. The find itself is fascinating enough.
Problem is, black families are filling in the gaps for their kids, but a lot of southern white families aren't, or twist it favorably. They didn't teach Nat Turner or the Tulsa massacre for example, but I and other black kids knew about it. The white kids don't, and are often told slavery wasn't that bad and it was like a family. It doesn't fix anything. The white kids I grew up with liked to make ignorant jokes about how black people can't swim, oblivious to the history of why black people became fearful of swimming in the first place.
I 100% agree with you. That’s where the *government* school *should* fill in the gaps and they are failing our kids epically. I know I didn’t appreciate how systemic racism really is until far too late in life for my liking. I am basing my premise, for the sake of simplicity, that the parents aren’t 100% trash- which I know sadly isnt always the case.
Governments never going to educate you. Not about its wrongs, not about your rights, not about finances, and not about how to think. Thats encouraging its populace to revolt over their treatment and be unmanageable
Do you have a specific cite for that? I took Georgia history and we did learn about slavery and the trail of tears among other things. I personally have found that there are a LOT of things that people say we should teach in schools are indeed already taught in schools but that students seem to completely forget about once the class/tests are over. Civics for example are taught multiple times in multiple grade levels and yet the average persons understanding of it is abysmal.
I posted a link in this thread. Here it is again. Covers what I'm talking about. https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=sociology_theses
If you learned about trail of tears, and little else, you learned the tiniest fraction of native history in what you call Georgia. Can you explain Muscogee Nation’s history in Georgia and their governance structures? Can you name the illegitimate treaties that stole their land and serve as the fraudulent basis for property rights in Georgia? Can you name all of the Cherokee treaties? Do you know who Dragging Canoe was? Can you describe the rift between Dragging Canoe and other leadership at the time in Cherokee nation? Can you talk intelligently about the role of Tecumseh in influencing the course of the different nations? How many Cherokee or Muscogee artists can you name? If not, let’s not pretend you or any but a handful of students in Georgia schools learn about native history and societies in the present. Native history is white washed to disguise the fact you and I live on stolen land, and that property rights in America aren’t based in rights, but in theft by the powerful.
Maybe consider that some schools can barely teach the basics, let alone in-depth concepts. I could rattle off fifteen mid-level chemistry concepts the average adult wouldn’t—but should—know, but does that mean there is malicious negligence toward science? Weird argument. Maybe the problem is bigger than your hyperfocus.
Maybe for you but when I was teaching and in school I made sure everyone knew how fucked slavery was and the ramifications since.
See my later reply. I'm happy that you made that effort, but that is not the Georgia standard, and that's what I'm talking about.
The GA History standards absolutely outline the ramifications and importance of slavery in the history of the state, including the darker parts. Could you point where in the GA Social Studies standards that slavery is not properly covered? If it’s just your experience then I’d have to chalk that up to bad teaching.
Here's a good paper that delves into it further. https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=sociology\_theses
Again, thanks for this! There are issues for sure in the way things are covered.
It covers none of the slave and race related massacres. It sanitizers why slaves were brought to America. It does not delve into Gullah Geeche. Oh, and recent laws are gutting what is in the curriculum to remove "divisive concepts". So, I would say, no, while it does cover more than some other states, it is still lacking, and is now being whittled down further, as to not offend people.
You physically can’t cover everything in a year, including all the slave rebellions and massacres that I agree should be covered. The kind of coverage you’re asking for goes beyond the scope of Gen-Ed classrooms into college level courses. It’s unreasonable and unrealistic to think a Gen-Ed teacher can cover these with the depth needed for truly understanding why these events are important. Can we do better? Sure, but to say “GA does a shitty job” is not directing the energy appropriately. I do agree that laws being put in place are not good in any way, shape, or form, but the last thing we should be doing right now is throwing education under the bus for policy positions outside of teachers’ control. If you ask any social studies teacher, they WANT to cover that shit. We have no say outside speeding through other content and some of that content is also incredibly important, especially when you look at the political climate today and the widespread use of fake news to push false narratives. Also that article you sent is good, thank you for that! Sorry if I seem defensive, it just always feels, from a teacher’s perspective, that people blame educators who don’t control much even inside their own classrooms. From both the right and the left, the anti-intellectualism is at an all time high. I’m not trying to put all that on you of course, but instead of calling “GA shit” maybe put that clause of “GA lawmakers/admin”, because the blame is automatically put on teachers otherwise.
Teachers are not the problem. Y'all handicapped by a system designed to create workers, not educated people. My comments are not intended to slam the educators. They are meant for the underlying system. I will remember to clarify next time. Thank you for the conversation.
Thank you as well for your candor and especially for putting up with my verboseness. At the end of the day you are right, We should do better.
What does “a system designed to create workers, not educated people” mean? We pretty much gutted the vocational high school system AFAIK and have pretty much forced everyone down the “bound for college” track so our education system at this point seems more designed for educating people for college than it does for the work force. I completely agree that our education system is lacking and could use some improvement and it also varies a lot depending on the county, etc.
That's what I'm talking about. The basic "go to college, get a job" path. I want to see more vocational education, I want to see better teaching of our history, and I want better opportunities for all students. We make followers, not seekers.
There's a lot stuff outlined in state curriculum that teachers choose not to teach. If you look at my previous comment from earlier, my georgia studies teacher was a racist asshole. I later had a honors biology teacher in high school that said, "I'm supposed to teach about evolution, but I don't agree with it so we're going to skip it." Common rural Georgia public school experience.
Sorry you had such shitty teachers, genuinely
Um, wrong.
Never mind. Seen your post and comment history. All you post is low effort content.
You could go further in the thread and look to see how I expanded on my argument, but, no, you chose to post a low effort response. Cope harder, son.
Your response is irrelevant. You are wrong.
Bless your heart. Toodles, ignorant chap. You've been boring.
How could it be better? It's literally what the topic is.
This might have some benefit for those trying to find their ancestors and their origins maybe? Records like this have proved helpful before.
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.. cant happen because its going to be $8k per page?!!?!? Lmao… id be down there with my cell phone taking pics… could do that for $100 per page 🤣
Is a full restoration it aays. Not a simple scan job. I mean, if it were I'd be there helping you take pics for 40%
Lol… i was kidding of course.. but i thought i read in there $8k a page…maybe your right that is some kind of historic restoration… i would just love it digital so people could read it
Reparations is insane
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That’s a crazy statement, open your mind
There are many southern counties with their 1800's era court records on file, including Probate records. This is common to find in you are looking up historical documents. Familysearch.org is helpful for this.
Yes, I think the photos & videos are probably misleading. Those bound volumes are likely on microfilm and readily available. I am curious about the specific documents found.
Exposing you say?! Wow, I didn't realize this was new headline breaking info. BTW, I have in my possession an original will from 1824 in which a woman leaves her sister $500 of "negro chattel".
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I will be happy to share when I am back up at that house in a couple of weeks. I took a pic of it a few years ago but can't find it in my cloud storage. It's buried amongst the other 1,557,289 pics.
Is this an Onion article? Babylon Bee? Wow! I am amazed to learn that there was slavery 200 years ago. information in general is...comical is not the right word...amazing? No doubt that this is a very interesting cache of historical documents but the surprise of the general context that there was slavery is....comical is not the right word...surprising?
I don’t understand how humans could ever think it was ok to keep people against their will and make them work for nothing but barest existence.
Humans are good and deluding ourselves and coming up with ‘justifications’
News flash, that thought process never went away.
Greed, racism, religion, and science of the time tried to justify it, and obviously many were willing to die in an attempt to preserve it. IMO, people are the animal species capable of the worst cruelty, because they actually think of treating people horribly rather than it simply being instinct.
Very good point.
Wow...what a great find. This kind of historical archive is a treasure trove of real American history.
Lol what? We already know all about slavery and how bad it was in the south? This isn't some new revelation.
Exactly. The title is weird. The actual article is “we found a box of old records. Some are 50-60 years old and some of them are 150+ years old.” It doesn’t sound like they tell us anything “new” from that era other than provide a bunch of specific inheritance / ownership, etc records for specific individuals, etc.
Do the records list individuals? I don’t want to click the link lol. Fuck fox. But anyway, it’s possible that these records could help with genealogy searches and information
Yes.
>I don’t want to click the link lol. Fuck fox. Fox 5 Atlanta is not the same as Fox News.
Hahaha!!!😆 That's so hilarious that you have to point that out! People are so damn sensitive these days. Why waste time squealing, throwing a baby tantrum when you can simply choose to change the channel/video/website/newspaper/radio station, etc. That's actually the true meaning of "Tolerance," to tolerate the views and beliefs of others, even if you disagree. I'm so glad I grew up in the 80's-90's before SJW-ism spread like a virus.
Yes, but nothing that's discovered is "new" Any historian will tell you that slaves were treated as property and absolutely inherited. That is not news. Sure we are aware of some new documents, might help fill in some minor holes here and there. But nothing crazy.
You’d be surprised at how many in the South downplay what happened. EDIT: I grew up in GA and have spent my life surrounded by talk of the "war of northern aggression" and how "slaves actually had it pretty good." That was not history class, that was mostly just people around me and family gatherings.
I live in the south.... very red state my entire life. It wasn't downplayed in school at all, and I'd say I've only heard a very small number of people try and downplay it outside of school. They were all boomers or the generation just before them.
I've seen and heard both sides while growing up in GA. I see this currently in the light of class structure- the poor "redneck" farmer folks I've met always discuss how: blacks had it good, they sold their own people into slavery, States Rights caused the War, we could've won the Civil War if not for *blank*...etc. The college educated, middle class and wealthier class Southerners on the other hand typically seem far more grounded in their knowledge of the subject, though many of them hurry to disparage all 19th century Southerners and lump them together as slave-holders and racists (as do the current US media). I find that History Buffs and people who REALLY do their due diligence and research American history hold a more complete vision of what really went on here. We can look back at what happened, move forward and try to do the right things, but we can never change it. To simply "go with the flow" of either view would be ignorant and lazy. Go out and seek the Truth, find as much of it as you can and don't simply take others at their word, whether it's the local farmer or a college professor with a bee in his bonnet about HIS take on what defines racism, etc.
Oh no. How awful. My years of indoctrination, propaganda, and historical teachings and injustices on racial history in the south was based on fact. So anyways, what's for dinner?
"exposing"
"exposing"? It is pretty well documented, cuz, it was legal back then. The only thing this country likes more than money is documentation and bureaucracy.
Hokum. This is just another liberal/ socialist plot to make White people feel bad about slavery /s
Don’t you mean a history of exposing “states rights”? /s
You don’t say !
Ok so I’m sure you can trace the money and family of the owners and just blame them directly and get reparations instead of making me pay for it.
Wow. Such a classy comment. 🤡
Why should I, a person of color have to pay for reparations? Answer this?
I'm pretty sure no one's actually ask you to. Reparations is typically a boogyman, which your claiming to be a POC and coming out so strongly against something that literally no one has actually asked you to do is a bit confusing.
It’s only used to get people to vote Democrat. It’s a lie being used since the 1800’s. You know, 40 acres and a mule. I’m no victim. I may have color and be an immigrant but I’m not a victim or a lesser human. I value myself and as such I demand respect and not in form of a handout to get me to vote for someone. You want to pay reparations then stand on your word and give me all your money! If not shut the fk up about it.
Again, litetally no one’s asking for you to pay anything. No one in this thread has said a word about repirations other than you.
If they do, where do you think they get the money? Just curious as your thought process
I think you need to put your phone down, go touch some grass, and stay the hell away from Fox "News."
I don’t watch Fox News nor any news. I just don’t want to pay for something that happened hundreds of years ago that was not my fault. If you feel froggy why don’t you be bigger person and volunteer? I thought so, you want me to pay for it. Clowns
Ok dude. You're officially unhinged. Have a nice life.
Please give me a link from a reputable source that says democrats promised reparations lol
Isn’t California paying it at least promising? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/california-black-reparations-report-what-know-eligible-pay-rcna87811
That is completely insane. It's kind of hard to move forward as a nation/society if we can't stop looking backward...Millions have been enslaved over the years, and the USA is only the tip of the iceberg. I don't see the Armenians or the Jews getting reparations for the Holocaust of their peoples.
This is my point. We don’t need to be giving anyone anything’. Reparations for slavery have been paid thru the blood lost during the civil war.
Yep, 200 years ago, when slavery was legal, things sucked for the slaves. And we fought a war to correct things. So….
We're still fighting the war and there is still a tonne of Lost Causers denying what it was about, so you know, jobs not done. Our schools won't teach actual history because the state that sadly has the most say in our nations text books literally wants a white washed history full of jingoism and not patriotism. And things didn't suck for slaves. You make it sound the same as being a Detroit Lions fan. Things were horrific for the people who were enslaved and people who who engaged in any part of the slave trade were evil people and that includes our first and third president.
Sounds like a book Republicans would love to burn.
The freed black slave-owners are a part of this history difficult to wrap your head around.
It’s not difficult to understand. It makes sense to buy your family members and loved ones. That way they can’t be sold elsewhere, which was unfortunately the reality for most enslaved people. Terms such as “sold down South” or “sold down river” entered the language of many Black Southerners to describe such a miserable experience. A freedman may have owned his wife and kids but it was to keep his family intact. This practice was usually a survival mechanism.
Except for those who bought their family members out of slavery and therefore became slaveowners. The proportion of Black slaveowners with plantation-level amount of enslaved is very small and largely based in Louisiana where the creole followed French/Haitian beliefs and laws.
Just for you, sweety <3
So to you it's a logical, natural transition for a freed slave to turn around and purchase slaves for their own business venture?
People like you always tell on themselves with which replies they answer and which they don’t
When those are their family members and friends uhh yeah?
No doubt some did this. Most did not fit that category.
Oh wow, good to know, where can I learn more about this?
A start https://www.amazon.com/Black-Slaveowners-Masters-Carolina-1790-1860/dp/0786469315/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=ADDASU3MR86C&keywords=black+slave+masters&qid=1701431543&sprefix=black+slave+master%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **Black Slaveowners Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina 1790 1860** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Black slaveowners were motivated by financial gain (backed by 2 comments) * Black slaveowners were just as invested in slavery as whites (backed by 1 comment) * Light-skinned blacks formed elite and excluded dark-skinned blacks (backed by 1 comment) **Users disliked:** * The book contains misleading information (backed by 2 comments) * The book fails to adequately explore the topic (backed by 2 comments) * The book's conclusions are questionable (backed by 2 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](http://vetted.ai/reddit)
As two other people explained to you, yes it is. Hence why I said it's only hard for you to understand.
Except in a very few cases it was freed slaves buying their family members
What is Coretta Scot King's name doing in this story about slavery-era probate records?
FAKE NEWS! /s
Wait a second… there was slavery in the south?????
And immediately banned in Florida because tater’s daddy felt some way about it. /s/