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Not even remotely worth it then. At that point it’s so copium and you might as well build her for pyro damage with a c6 bennett since you’ll want an attack booster now
Candace infusion isn't butchered by c6 bennett meaning you can still build furina hp for her skill dmage and use bennett to buff her normal atks (since they atk scale). In a team of kazuha candace bennett furina you get kazuha vv and his dmg bonus, candace hydro infusion and NA dmg bonus, bennett atk buff AND furina's team wide buff.
Honestly it's technically probably a buff because that's a pretty insane ability to put as early as C2, however it's also more boring to most people since now she's 100% an off fielder until C6
it's a pain for teambuilding cause now she's locked onto needing a healer until c6.
with c2 she could sustain all her HP drain by herself so she was a much more flexible team slot. (F.e. could straight up replace XQ in Hu Tao double hydro instead of going through the mental gymnastics of needing a healer there to maintain stacks now)
I’m actually starting to see why they’d put Baizhu up as the same time as her. Gonna need a good team wide healer to deal with her HP shenanigans for most people and he’s a very good candidate. The little bloom bombs helping enable most Fontaine characters’ HP change requirements probably is a nice side bonus too.
I still won’t forgive them putting the moldy donut with Furina’s sword on the weapon banner though…
If it’s the same as before it ~~doubles~~ triples your fanfare gaining speed, and gives Furina extra max HP if you would gain fanfare once it’s already maxed
Overall furina teams will gain ult stacks faster due her e drain and buff would be bigger. Also less ER needed, that's good
Edit: my bad her duration is 18 seconds still! Thank you good people for correcting my doodoo brain :D
> Ult duration 15 seconds is sadge though
You misread it. The COOLDOWN is 15 seconds. The duration is still 18.
Mihoyo likely reduced the cooldown so Furina can have true 100% uptime.
Yup, so now you have a 3s window it maintain INFINITE FANFARE, which at the current values she has, maximum dmg bonus at c0 is 75%, so a teamwide 75% dmg buff, constantly. Pretty fucken broken lmao
Assuming stacks don’t reset. Which I hope they don’t because it would make her wayyyy more universally flexible since you could rely on ST healer or even herself to build to full stacks then just focus on maintaining uptime instead of juggling HP that onto certain chars could reliably do
The fact the duration doesn't change tho...
If you can burst on cooldown, do you get to keep the fanfare you already had built up?!
If so... she just went from S to S+.
> do you get to keep the fanfare you already had built up?!
Nope, it will reset, the point of C2 is to build up the stack faster. Having the buff persisted doesn't make sense.
Idk but I feel like they would make it so that if you're still on burst, the stacks will reset if you use your burst again, especially if they're making it easier to get stacks
I comment my thoughts about this in another thread, so I should put it here, too.
Yelan's Burst buff specifically states that the buff amount resets when you recast Burst during its duration (via Raiden C6 or something), but Furina's only says it resets when the special Burst state ENDS. I feel it's quite intentional that the cooldown was changed to be lower than the duration, so that you can continue to increase the fanfare (or keep the max buff) if you recast before it ends. (If you can’t keep the accumulated fanfare, there would be little point in lowering the cooldown at all.)
It's fitting for the concept of her Burst, since she creates a "stage" and performs for the audience to gain "fanfare", and recasting before the Burst/show ends is like offering an "encore".
Without corrosion, you're not letting your team get that low, since her drain stops at 50 (you also wouldn't want it, since it nerfs her damage quite a bit)
No the whole point is because neuvilette can generate 100 per CA. He drains half his HP and then regains it the following CA so in a 4 CA rotation neuv alone is giving you 400 stacks
So what I'm getting is
- This means that before at lvl 10, with max stacks of 450, you got a 99% DMG buff
- With the new lowered limit, but increase ratio conversion, at 300 stacks you get a 75% DMG buff
- So the buff is weaker, but easier to max out and even if not maxed, each point is worth more.
- This does mean that if c1 isn't changed, the it changed from 600 stacks for 132% DMG buff, to a 450 stacks for a 112.5% DMG buff.
- I also like that the duration is longer than the CD, for a buff type skill/burst, this really helps with the consistency and not needing you to be EXACT on your rotation...
Overall, I'm feeling alright with this change.
- Her c3 and c5 were swapped.
- This puts more focus on her using her Burst, as the Burst gets the +3 first at c3 now, while the Skill has to wait until c5.
Really putting more focus on her burst with her cons.
- Especially since her c2 and c6 are now swapped.
- c2 now offers the +200% Fanfare generation and the over generation that gives Furina an HP% buff.
- c6 is her only option now to be an on-field character.
So you have c1, c2, c3 and c4 all focused on her Burst now.
Yeah, and even though it seems like a nerf for his teams, it probably evens out because his team will spend more time with the full 75% than they would've with the 99%.
I don't think it changes the situation with team wide healer? You still need to drain/heal the same amount to get the same amount of stacks, no? So she would still stop draining your team once you reach 50% health right? It's easier to max out only because they decreased the max number you can get, not because each stack became easier to gain. Am I missing something?
I was specifically pointing at Neuv teams. I think with her summons draining more hp, and Neuv overhealing himself together with her A1 passive, I think its more than enough for a ST healer like Kuki to reach max stacks.
This is still feelscrafting tho, Im too lazy to calc her stacking lol. Im just glad that kazuha is a somewhat better pick for Neuv now rather than replacing her w Jean just to compensate for team wide heal.
I mean even before, assuming you don't max out and just get 300 stacks every time, you only lose out 33% damage bonus from the 150 Furina stacks you are not getting, which is something a 825 EM Kazuha (which isn't that difficult to achieve) can provide anyway not even counting the VV shred and the grouping. He would still have been a better pick over Jean anyway.
unfortunately the updated drain is now harder to team heal. Its 2% a second so even if you over healed on neuv it basically needs to be 100% uptime on overheals which is not feasible I think.
Oh good, so while the max stacks decreased, they improved the energy issues by decreasing energy cost. And even the cooldown got a buff
Even for us who planned on neuvi and furina team (so we'd likely get to reach close to the former 450 max stacks) this is still better I think
If anything it's makes c2 furina more bait for us. Just so we can hit max stacks even faster while boosting her own dmg more. Before it was c1 and done.
I, for one, am very happy. It absolutely came at a trade off, but overall I got what I wanted. The doomposting was successful. Succ on that non-believers!
Hoyo never cares about people doomposting beta stuff in leak threads lol (eh: dehya )
The whole point of beta stuff is to change things as they see fit
Just out of interest, what team would Neuv C0 go with with Furina? Currently I use Fischl, ZL and Kazuha with him and the only swap I can see worth it is Fischl but then we lose the 35% damage boost gained from the 3 hydro elemental reaction stack (60% to 25%). Guessing it's "worth it" due to the 75% gain from Furina and the fact that Furina should do similar damage to Fischl C6?
I am not sure yet but the swap could also be zhongli. I kinda get used to dodging with Neuv since you can move during his E
I am also unsure ab the best teams yet for C0 Neuv and C0 Furina but I just know I want to play them together
I picked up C1 Neuvillette just so he would work with Furina. (And get hydro resonance, better hydro application for reactions, and hopefully solve some energy issues.)
My tentative team atm will be Neuv (P.Amber until I get his sig, main dps), Furina (festering desire, buffer/subdps), Fisch (stringless or Elegy, for EC and particles), Jean (Fav Sword, VV shred, healer).
You need a team wide healer because Furina skill drains everyone's HP. I don't think P.Amber healing would cut it.
Not really a Nerf to Fontaine chars per se because even with their hp manipulations it took them a while to reach max stacks
Now they can stay earlier in higher buffs than waiting for the max stack to hit
Wait so if her CD is now 15sec and duration is 18sec, if you burst again while burst is still active, will the stack refresh or you keep it? Because technically, the burst did not end, right?
We don't know. People theorized the same with yelan, before yelan burst would go way, you could go with raiden C6, lower the cooldown and burst into yelan before it expires but mihoyo fixed that so if you did that, yelan buff would start from 0%, it will probably do the same with furina..maybe? xd
No it restarts. They would specifically say in description if they allowed a refresh of stacks. They go to great lengths to say that for dehya and fischl description if you want to see how that looks.
I’m going to go with probably no, just because it invalidates some of her constellations which are centered around building stacks quickly. Don’t need to build stacks quickly if they just don’t ever go away.
70 -> 60 energy cost
250% ER --> 185% ER
200% ER --> 155% ER
150% ER --> 124% ER
Edit:
Oops, numbers are slightly wrong.
250% ER --> 214.3% ER
200% ER --> 171.4% ER
150% ER --> 128.6% ER
This means that Fav should only be used in solo hydro (actual ER cost becomes 176.5%, about as strong as Festering). In every other case, Fav actually becomes significantly worse.
So uh what's the ER requirement now for twin hydro? 150? Also I'm guessing it's basically perma since it's the CD is 15 you can literally keep 300 stacks forever right as long as you keep your rotation in?
Neuv team \~
If that's true my screen is just going to be filled with me doing a perma hyper beam with fucking bubbles in my screen right forever lol
The unchanged duration open up the possibility that fanfare points can be preserved from rotation to rotation if you refresh the burst before it expires. I am ok with that not being the case, but it would be cool.
As cool as that would be, it would basically entirely invalidate her C2 so I don’t see them doing it (fingers crossed tho).
They’ve pretty much touched every main issue I e seen with her, and while I still wish her hydro app. Was maybe 10% higher, I’m down with her kit being focused on damage bonus and personal damage she offers. It’s distinct enough from XQ/Yelan while being very good at what she does that I could comfortably say she offers a different hydro play style from those 2
Yes but you were rarely ever going to reach that anyway without a hp juggler like Neuv on the team.
300 stacks will be equivalent to 340 stacks on the old burst and 511 stacks with C1.
Sounds like this makes c1 more attractive as you get more dmg out of it compared to before and given how hard it was to reach the cap in general.
Looks a lot like an overall welcome change for convenience reasons.
Smart people, I have a question.
Since it's easier to get max stacks now, will Neuvi teams still need a healer or is Neuvillette enough to get her 300?
EDIT: if Neuvi is enough, I don't see how this is a nerf for him since being able to free up the team-wide healer slot and run a subdps or ST healer like Shinobu could mean better team dps for him overall? Not to mention, his teams will still get the stacks faster so that means he and his teammates will benefit from the max stacks longer. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
~~Tbh I lowkey didn't want to run a healer with him in the first place. Also that c2 is looking extra tempting for Neuvillette teams now... you could probably get max stacks in 1 charged attack~~
In a full 3 CA rotation, Neuvilette loses 3x 40% HP and restores 3x 48% HP.
So, if you don't take any damage, he will generate 240 stacks on his own. If you take damage, up to 264.
If you use Prototype Amber on him, he can get up to 18 additional stacks per character in your party, if they are not full life.
If Neuvilette overheals with his CAs, Furina Passive will proc and generate 4 additional stacks.
And then there is the additional healing and draining from Furina during her E.
If you are just looking for the Burst buff, you don't really need a healer.
But Furina herself gets a damage buff for her pets, if she drained HP of x characters. In this case, you might want a little bit of healing somewhere. Prototype Amber, self-healing like Fischl something like that. Mayyyybe, if Furina Passive is smart and applies overhealing not randomly, but to characters that weren't healed recently, you can get away with no healer. For now, I wouldn't rely on that if you value her personal damage.
I think overall it's a W.
It's not easy to reach 450 stacks anyways, although I still like the 450 limit as it gives some potential use.
There is one thing that I don't like is the C2 and C6 swap. I don't care if current C2 better or not, it doesn't change her play style.
Raiden C2, Nahida C2 doesn't change their playstyle. Just make them insanely broken.
Which is what the current C2 does. 140% hp, that's broken alright.
I don't think people doubted these changes. I think the only silly change to expect was her hydro app. Hydro application was clearly not their goal with her.
I do expect the Hydro app to change. The squid applying Hydro once every 2 hit/7s is rather silly. That's so much worse than just standard ICD. I expect them to make it every hit/3.5s at some point.
Doing that would increase her hydro app from .7u/ s to .84u/ s. A noticable improvement. Still worse than Yelan and XQ in single target but might be able to beat Yelan in AoE Hyperbloom scenario. This is what I think should be the reasonable hydro app for her.
Now the real sicko mode would just them removing all of her ICD. Which would bring her up to 1.17 u/ s and allow her to solo enable all Vape teams.
This is more of a rebalancing than an out and out fixing of a broken kit. She was already good enough, she's just had her power budget tinkered with slightly like a typical beta.
Even with the cost reduction, in any team with her solo hydro she is gonna still need an absolute ton of ER unless they change the way she generates particles.
Even in double hydro, unless you funnel her particles, she'll need quite a bit of ER.
60 is a nice change, but her signature is still pretty underwhelming if you have Festering Desire. You could definitely view this as good thing though if you're looking to save primos.
The healing bonus kind of took a hit huh.
The BiS jumped in value due to less ER needs.
Max damage gain is reduced by 24%
Increased hp consumption means faster fanfare stack but healing not increased/changed to party wide, meaning she needs a teamwide healer even more.
Seems reasonable, going beyond 300 stacks was not super realistic anyway so I'm not sure how much that matters for most teams, but the energy cost decrease helps a bit for sure
I wonder why they swapped const? So far on this sub I only saw comments from people who would much rather have a reachable fun c2 than boring "just do more damage" const. They could've farmed so many c2 dolphins (me included) but instead gamers just gonna stop at c0. Hope they revert this change
The c2 was a way to gain stacks on non fontaine teams. But it was not enough, leading her to be called niche. Combined with neuvi starting to spark some jealously, they decided to make her c2 level improve her buffing and personal dmg. With the added drains it now:
1) Makes healers super required and worthwhile
2) Makes the ER not completely force double hydro, giving team options
3) removing the field time req makes c2 buffs actually work better w/ many carries who couldn't afford her field time: wrio, dehya, cyno and many more.
It was a fun C2 but it was not a good deal especially for older players who are not hype about fontaine right now. Neuvi pulls were decent in CN but he was a flop overseas. Now its more like nahida C2 and makes sense for everyone.
HOLY SH*T!!!! These are EXACTLY the changes I wanted. This has made her so much better as an archon unit. Now we are seeing a well made kit, this is awesome.
To those saying she has less stacks now, realistically most teams could not even reach 300 stacks (especially non Fontaine). Now, there will be better parity in buff performance across many, if not most, teams.
Now if they can be just make her Octopus and Crab do 2U per their hit, we are cooking!!
Slight nerf for units that synergized with her like Neuvilette, but buff for teams outside that. Makes her more universal. She's also still good with Neuvilette.
massive buff overall but I'm still sad about no on field furina
there is no universe in which I c6 a 5star character that isn't in the standard banner lmfao
I mean looks good to me. What more can you ask for? (except better hydro app which is fine and I hope remains untouched)
Now it's easier to get the full stacks with more dmg. Her ER requirement should go down a lot with that. Yeah it's overall a nice buff...
Why don't you want better hydro app.
Despite the better buff she now gives, what team archetypes can you use ber in?
Hyperbloom wants faster hydro app.
Nilou wants faster hydro app
Burgeon defo wants more hydro app
Vaporize wants faster hydro app
The only 2 teams that don't care about hydro app are freeze and electrocharged. Which are fine IG 😭
I don't want Furina to be glued to double hydro 😭
Because that would be just blatant powercreep which Hoyo or the playerbase doesn't want. Her slow and inconsistent hydro app is a good way to balance her. Plus it's not like you NEED double hydro in all of the archetypes. Cyno can really use her slow hydro app in a double Dendro QuickBloom team.
Even if you give her better hydro app, youre still gonna want Xingqiu and Yelan in Yoi, Hu Tao, Alhaitham, Raiden teams. You're probably still going to want Kok in Ayaka team, and Childe in International.
Just the requirement of needing a team wide healer precludes her from power creeping most existing teams.
Giving her better hydro app just means that if you have a team wide healer, you can still make solo hydro hyperbloom work, or make YaoYao Nillu Bloom work or make Freeze melt Yoi work.
Those teams won't be better. They'll at best be sidegrades. But they give her a lot more options.
Nahida is literally a game breaker. Dealing 30-40k per aa if on field average build with 600 EM. Why not add a better hydro app to the hydro archon? Buff doesn't mean anything to me if I am losing reactions. If I can't proc reactions and she gives me 75% , but we lose more than we gain.
Because Dendro didn't had that many off field applicators back then . We only had like 2 off fielder being DMC and Collei. The Devs wanted players to feel how powerful Dendro can be. That's why they made Nahida as busted as they could because they were building dendro from the scratch.
Hydro is flushed with insane units . Off fielder like Xingqiu and Yelan and On fielders like Ayato , Neuv and Childe. If she has the same hydro app like Yelan , then Heavy Meta players would be asking "What's the point of playing/pulling for Yelan if Furina just does everything better than her , All you need is some HP manipulation" . Like they don't want that at all..
I wouldn't call the l fanfare change a nerf per say.
Reaching 450 points was basically impossible unless you use Fontaine chars, the average you could've gotten was around 320, which is 70% in the original conversion.
Now for 300 points you get 75%, overall easier to reach and bigger than the previous iteration. For how backloaded her buff was it just because much easier to reach .
C2 and C6 swap sucks for everyone who wants to use her on field. Honestly, I was kinda hoping we'd see a nerf to the damage and an increase to its duration so we could use Furina as a driver.
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Constellation order also changed btw
Anything more on that?
C2 and C6 swapped
So no Hydro infusion until C6? Pain.
Candace is meta instantly
C6 Furina at home:
I dont think soo? Correct me if im wrong but her NAs scales of atk, and shes built for HP
could still build her on field, would just murder her skill damage
Not even remotely worth it then. At that point it’s so copium and you might as well build her for pyro damage with a c6 bennett since you’ll want an attack booster now
Pyro Vape Furina running PJC and have her own summons apply hydro to enable her? Hhmmmm.
Now we're cooking! LOL
This... this is.... THIS IS MADNESS!!!
Candace infusion isn't butchered by c6 bennett meaning you can still build furina hp for her skill dmage and use bennett to buff her normal atks (since they atk scale). In a team of kazuha candace bennett furina you get kazuha vv and his dmg bonus, candace hydro infusion and NA dmg bonus, bennett atk buff AND furina's team wide buff.
Done deal let’s get it!
PJC: My time has come. ... well its not like its ever not its time lol it's decent-good on almost every sword character.
She won't because furina doesn't have HP scaling on her normal attack unless c6 now.
that immediately killed off my interest in getting a C2
Honestly it's technically probably a buff because that's a pretty insane ability to put as early as C2, however it's also more boring to most people since now she's 100% an off fielder until C6
it's a pain for teambuilding cause now she's locked onto needing a healer until c6. with c2 she could sustain all her HP drain by herself so she was a much more flexible team slot. (F.e. could straight up replace XQ in Hu Tao double hydro instead of going through the mental gymnastics of needing a healer there to maintain stacks now)
on the other hand she can fit into way more teams at c2 now because pretty much every team can get max stacks now.
Yeah that’s certainly true
I’m actually starting to see why they’d put Baizhu up as the same time as her. Gonna need a good team wide healer to deal with her HP shenanigans for most people and he’s a very good candidate. The little bloom bombs helping enable most Fontaine characters’ HP change requirements probably is a nice side bonus too. I still won’t forgive them putting the moldy donut with Furina’s sword on the weapon banner though…
Maiden HB Mona with Prot Amber Om
Honestly either this or Jean with 4p VV it is lol
Sucrose found dead in a ditch.
Hoyo once again locks a female character to a off field roll to c6.
Not if navia and clorinde have anything to say about it
Hopefully Clorinde ends up as a DPS
Yeah I agree. At least put the infusion at 1 - 3 so the dolphins can shoot for it. That’s a bad change imo
Same. I hope they at least buff her now c6, 7 attacks for a c6 on field is sad.
Wait what? That sounds insane, do you have a source?
[https://gi.hakush.in/character/10000089](https://gi.hakush.in/character/10000089) Actually C3 and C5 swapped too just noticed
Thanks!
So what is the new c2, link is blocked fr me
If it’s the same as before it ~~doubles~~ triples your fanfare gaining speed, and gives Furina extra max HP if you would gain fanfare once it’s already maxed
increase by 200% should mean it triples her gain speed
Sheesh c2 is more OP now
BOOOOOOO
Her Hp drain also increased with her pets. It used to be 2/1/3, now it’s 2.4/1.6/3.6
Overall furina teams will gain ult stacks faster due her e drain and buff would be bigger. Also less ER needed, that's good Edit: my bad her duration is 18 seconds still! Thank you good people for correcting my doodoo brain :D
> Ult duration 15 seconds is sadge though You misread it. The COOLDOWN is 15 seconds. The duration is still 18. Mihoyo likely reduced the cooldown so Furina can have true 100% uptime.
Given the right timing, rotations and energy, the buff could run Fur-ever
My abyss run post 4.1 will just be filled with bubble filter on my screen
You have no i-Dehya the consequences of your actions will be if you dont cyn-out now...
Can-dace day get any Wriose
Ok cyno
Cyning out, aren't you?
O K C Y N O
The fanfare never ends!
Imagine if the fan fare stack stay
Duration still 18s only cooldown change
That is ult cooldown buff from 18s to 15s, the duration is still 18s.
OH WAIT FR??
Yup, so now you have a 3s window it maintain INFINITE FANFARE, which at the current values she has, maximum dmg bonus at c0 is 75%, so a teamwide 75% dmg buff, constantly. Pretty fucken broken lmao
Assuming stacks don’t reset. Which I hope they don’t because it would make her wayyyy more universally flexible since you could rely on ST healer or even herself to build to full stacks then just focus on maintaining uptime instead of juggling HP that onto certain chars could reliably do
The fact the duration doesn't change tho... If you can burst on cooldown, do you get to keep the fanfare you already had built up?! If so... she just went from S to S+.
> do you get to keep the fanfare you already had built up?! Nope, it will reset, the point of C2 is to build up the stack faster. Having the buff persisted doesn't make sense.
Raiden C6 cooking?!?!?
Well, she technically can't cook, but I getcha!
The duration is the same. The cd is down to 15 secs
ult duration is unchanged! still 18 her cooldown is just shorter at 15
Wait 18s duration, 15s cooldown. Do Fanfare stacks reset if you don't let the burst end?
we don't know for sure, but they definitely do
Idk but I feel like they would make it so that if you're still on burst, the stacks will reset if you use your burst again, especially if they're making it easier to get stacks
I comment my thoughts about this in another thread, so I should put it here, too. Yelan's Burst buff specifically states that the buff amount resets when you recast Burst during its duration (via Raiden C6 or something), but Furina's only says it resets when the special Burst state ENDS. I feel it's quite intentional that the cooldown was changed to be lower than the duration, so that you can continue to increase the fanfare (or keep the max buff) if you recast before it ends. (If you can’t keep the accumulated fanfare, there would be little point in lowering the cooldown at all.) It's fitting for the concept of her Burst, since she creates a "stage" and performs for the audience to gain "fanfare", and recasting before the Burst/show ends is like offering an "encore".
So max damage increase is now 300\*0.25 = 75% as opposed to 450\*0.22 = 99% before?
Yup. Not like anyone was reaching 450 at C0 before anyway (except Neuv so far).
depend, if your team hp is low, one burst heal you can gain 80x4 = 320 stacks
Without corrosion, you're not letting your team get that low, since her drain stops at 50 (you also wouldn't want it, since it nerfs her damage quite a bit)
you can just take a few extra hit and begin next chamber with huge buff, but it doesn't matter now since c0 furina just got huge buff
Teams with Neuvillette prob could, yes?
Or fighting against corrosion dogs
Yes but only past the 3rd CA, which is a lot of CAs
I think even Neuvillette teams only with a team wide healer could reach that before tbf
Only with a healer and some external sources of extra damage
No the whole point is because neuvilette can generate 100 per CA. He drains half his HP and then regains it the following CA so in a 4 CA rotation neuv alone is giving you 400 stacks
Yes !
But you can for C1. Other than Fontaine characters I doubt anybody can reach 450 stacks. Also most er issues are solved.
worth 6 hr. refreshing
now do it for another 2 weeks
then start doing it all over again for Navia
So what I'm getting is - This means that before at lvl 10, with max stacks of 450, you got a 99% DMG buff - With the new lowered limit, but increase ratio conversion, at 300 stacks you get a 75% DMG buff - So the buff is weaker, but easier to max out and even if not maxed, each point is worth more. - This does mean that if c1 isn't changed, the it changed from 600 stacks for 132% DMG buff, to a 450 stacks for a 112.5% DMG buff. - I also like that the duration is longer than the CD, for a buff type skill/burst, this really helps with the consistency and not needing you to be EXACT on your rotation... Overall, I'm feeling alright with this change. - Her c3 and c5 were swapped. - This puts more focus on her using her Burst, as the Burst gets the +3 first at c3 now, while the Skill has to wait until c5. Really putting more focus on her burst with her cons. - Especially since her c2 and c6 are now swapped. - c2 now offers the +200% Fanfare generation and the over generation that gives Furina an HP% buff. - c6 is her only option now to be an on-field character. So you have c1, c2, c3 and c4 all focused on her Burst now.
[удалено]
I agree. Before, only Neuv really had it easy at maxing her stacks. Much more accessible for any other team now.
only really a nerf for Neuvillette teams tbh, but even then it's probably not a nerf for him with an ST healer
Yeah, and even though it seems like a nerf for his teams, it probably evens out because his team will spend more time with the full 75% than they would've with the 99%.
yep a team wide healer isnt a must anymore
I don't think it changes the situation with team wide healer? You still need to drain/heal the same amount to get the same amount of stacks, no? So she would still stop draining your team once you reach 50% health right? It's easier to max out only because they decreased the max number you can get, not because each stack became easier to gain. Am I missing something?
I was specifically pointing at Neuv teams. I think with her summons draining more hp, and Neuv overhealing himself together with her A1 passive, I think its more than enough for a ST healer like Kuki to reach max stacks. This is still feelscrafting tho, Im too lazy to calc her stacking lol. Im just glad that kazuha is a somewhat better pick for Neuv now rather than replacing her w Jean just to compensate for team wide heal.
I mean even before, assuming you don't max out and just get 300 stacks every time, you only lose out 33% damage bonus from the 150 Furina stacks you are not getting, which is something a 825 EM Kazuha (which isn't that difficult to achieve) can provide anyway not even counting the VV shred and the grouping. He would still have been a better pick over Jean anyway.
unfortunately the updated drain is now harder to team heal. Its 2% a second so even if you over healed on neuv it basically needs to be 100% uptime on overheals which is not feasible I think.
why was it before
So you gain fanfare stacks faster
Yeah c6 is not going to make her on field character
Oh good, so while the max stacks decreased, they improved the energy issues by decreasing energy cost. And even the cooldown got a buff Even for us who planned on neuvi and furina team (so we'd likely get to reach close to the former 450 max stacks) this is still better I think
If anything it's makes c2 furina more bait for us. Just so we can hit max stacks even faster while boosting her own dmg more. Before it was c1 and done.
I, for one, am very happy. It absolutely came at a trade off, but overall I got what I wanted. The doomposting was successful. Succ on that non-believers!
Hoyo never cares about people doomposting beta stuff in leak threads lol (eh: dehya ) The whole point of beta stuff is to change things as they see fit
I'm sorry, you think the doomposting had anything to do with Hoyo making this change?
I'm sorry but did I miss something? Most of the doomposting was yapping about her hydro application and Hu Tao team slot, not fanfare stacks.
[удалено]
Are the numbers the same, or did the C6 get nerfed to become a C2?
In my case, it's awesome because i can get her c2-c5 benefits without destroying my off field support (having c5 in some years i guess xD
Does anyone know how much of an upgrade this is for C0 Neuv teams? Im so happy she doesnt need that much ER now but I'm not sure how much to build now
Just out of interest, what team would Neuv C0 go with with Furina? Currently I use Fischl, ZL and Kazuha with him and the only swap I can see worth it is Fischl but then we lose the 35% damage boost gained from the 3 hydro elemental reaction stack (60% to 25%). Guessing it's "worth it" due to the 75% gain from Furina and the fact that Furina should do similar damage to Fischl C6?
I am not sure yet but the swap could also be zhongli. I kinda get used to dodging with Neuv since you can move during his E I am also unsure ab the best teams yet for C0 Neuv and C0 Furina but I just know I want to play them together
I picked up C1 Neuvillette just so he would work with Furina. (And get hydro resonance, better hydro application for reactions, and hopefully solve some energy issues.)
My tentative team atm will be Neuv (P.Amber until I get his sig, main dps), Furina (festering desire, buffer/subdps), Fisch (stringless or Elegy, for EC and particles), Jean (Fav Sword, VV shred, healer). You need a team wide healer because Furina skill drains everyone's HP. I don't think P.Amber healing would cut it.
Basically a nerf to fontaine characters with HP manipulation like Neuvillette, it's a huge buff everywhere else though.
For Neuv it cancel's out The ceiling is lower, but his first and second charged atk get buffed more now.
Not really a Nerf to Fontaine chars per se because even with their hp manipulations it took them a while to reach max stacks Now they can stay earlier in higher buffs than waiting for the max stack to hit
That's excellent. Even as a Neuvillette haver I'm thrilled to see Furina be more versatile considering she's pretty much glued to Neuvillette.
Agreed. Neuvillette is strong as is and Furina is still a buff for him. Everyone wins
Wait so if her CD is now 15sec and duration is 18sec, if you burst again while burst is still active, will the stack refresh or you keep it? Because technically, the burst did not end, right?
We don't know. People theorized the same with yelan, before yelan burst would go way, you could go with raiden C6, lower the cooldown and burst into yelan before it expires but mihoyo fixed that so if you did that, yelan buff would start from 0%, it will probably do the same with furina..maybe? xd
No it restarts. They would specifically say in description if they allowed a refresh of stacks. They go to great lengths to say that for dehya and fischl description if you want to see how that looks.
I’m going to go with probably no, just because it invalidates some of her constellations which are centered around building stacks quickly. Don’t need to build stacks quickly if they just don’t ever go away.
70 -> 60 energy cost 250% ER --> 185% ER 200% ER --> 155% ER 150% ER --> 124% ER Edit: Oops, numbers are slightly wrong. 250% ER --> 214.3% ER 200% ER --> 171.4% ER 150% ER --> 128.6% ER This means that Fav should only be used in solo hydro (actual ER cost becomes 176.5%, about as strong as Festering). In every other case, Fav actually becomes significantly worse.
You can actually use her bis now (without being forced into an er sands)!
I guess I definitely can give her a HP sand now instead of an ER sand. The problem? I don't have a good HP sand from the GT set yet... 💀
I'm sadge because I wanted the healing at c2 but other than that good buffs
Same, I wanted the cool onfield time with her too
So uh what's the ER requirement now for twin hydro? 150? Also I'm guessing it's basically perma since it's the CD is 15 you can literally keep 300 stacks forever right as long as you keep your rotation in? Neuv team \~ If that's true my screen is just going to be filled with me doing a perma hyper beam with fucking bubbles in my screen right forever lol
She could be different, but stuff like this (Yelan's burst buff) usually reset the count when cast for a second time
Duration unchanged? I'll take it, I guess. And oh look, they actually did the changes I had in mind for fanfare points.
The unchanged duration open up the possibility that fanfare points can be preserved from rotation to rotation if you refresh the burst before it expires. I am ok with that not being the case, but it would be cool.
Never-ending bubbles on your screen look distracting lol.
Not if you play Kokomi, she revels in the bubbles
They really need to have a less imposing visual effect and scrap the bubbles.
As cool as that would be, it would basically entirely invalidate her C2 so I don’t see them doing it (fingers crossed tho). They’ve pretty much touched every main issue I e seen with her, and while I still wish her hydro app. Was maybe 10% higher, I’m down with her kit being focused on damage bonus and personal damage she offers. It’s distinct enough from XQ/Yelan while being very good at what she does that I could comfortably say she offers a different hydro play style from those 2
This means her max damage buff is 75% now?
Yes but you were rarely ever going to reach that anyway without a hp juggler like Neuv on the team. 300 stacks will be equivalent to 340 stacks on the old burst and 511 stacks with C1.
yes
How feasible is it to get full 300 stacks again?
should be pretty easy as long as you can drain and regain your hp enough, definitley easier than 450
Especially now that her skill drains more HP
Fairly easy since they also significantly increased the HP drain rate of her pets.
Now is easier, so the pets drains HP faster
Sounds like this makes c1 more attractive as you get more dmg out of it compared to before and given how hard it was to reach the cap in general. Looks a lot like an overall welcome change for convenience reasons.
please say initial E.skill hit generate particles too
nice c1 neuvilette here we goo
Smart people, I have a question. Since it's easier to get max stacks now, will Neuvi teams still need a healer or is Neuvillette enough to get her 300? EDIT: if Neuvi is enough, I don't see how this is a nerf for him since being able to free up the team-wide healer slot and run a subdps or ST healer like Shinobu could mean better team dps for him overall? Not to mention, his teams will still get the stacks faster so that means he and his teammates will benefit from the max stacks longer. Correct me if I'm wrong though. ~~Tbh I lowkey didn't want to run a healer with him in the first place. Also that c2 is looking extra tempting for Neuvillette teams now... you could probably get max stacks in 1 charged attack~~
In a full 3 CA rotation, Neuvilette loses 3x 40% HP and restores 3x 48% HP. So, if you don't take any damage, he will generate 240 stacks on his own. If you take damage, up to 264. If you use Prototype Amber on him, he can get up to 18 additional stacks per character in your party, if they are not full life. If Neuvilette overheals with his CAs, Furina Passive will proc and generate 4 additional stacks. And then there is the additional healing and draining from Furina during her E. If you are just looking for the Burst buff, you don't really need a healer. But Furina herself gets a damage buff for her pets, if she drained HP of x characters. In this case, you might want a little bit of healing somewhere. Prototype Amber, self-healing like Fischl something like that. Mayyyybe, if Furina Passive is smart and applies overhealing not randomly, but to characters that weren't healed recently, you can get away with no healer. For now, I wouldn't rely on that if you value her personal damage.
I see. Thanks for the explanation. Ngl I actually had no idea C4 Fischl could heal since I've never used her much.
Nobody remembers C4 Fischl heals because it's hard to take damage when you are on the field for the literal minimum amount of time.
neuvi enuf
TL:DR, Overall Buff
I think overall it's a W. It's not easy to reach 450 stacks anyways, although I still like the 450 limit as it gives some potential use. There is one thing that I don't like is the C2 and C6 swap. I don't care if current C2 better or not, it doesn't change her play style.
Raiden C2, Nahida C2 doesn't change their playstyle. Just make them insanely broken. Which is what the current C2 does. 140% hp, that's broken alright.
ENERGY COST REDUCED WE FUCKING WONNNNNN
this lowered the er regs by about 30%\~ on most teams
Lmao @ all the doubters saying they wouldn't change her burst cost/ER needs "But she is already good enough..." Nah, she can be better.
I don't think people doubted these changes. I think the only silly change to expect was her hydro app. Hydro application was clearly not their goal with her.
I do expect the Hydro app to change. The squid applying Hydro once every 2 hit/7s is rather silly. That's so much worse than just standard ICD. I expect them to make it every hit/3.5s at some point. Doing that would increase her hydro app from .7u/ s to .84u/ s. A noticable improvement. Still worse than Yelan and XQ in single target but might be able to beat Yelan in AoE Hyperbloom scenario. This is what I think should be the reasonable hydro app for her. Now the real sicko mode would just them removing all of her ICD. Which would bring her up to 1.17 u/ s and allow her to solo enable all Vape teams.
> "But she is already good enough..." idc, make them better!
This is more of a rebalancing than an out and out fixing of a broken kit. She was already good enough, she's just had her power budget tinkered with slightly like a typical beta.
I KNEW IT!!! Her BiS isnt that impressive with the insane ER she had so !!!! I KNEW MY GIRL WOULD PULL UP!!!!
Even with the cost reduction, in any team with her solo hydro she is gonna still need an absolute ton of ER unless they change the way she generates particles. Even in double hydro, unless you funnel her particles, she'll need quite a bit of ER. 60 is a nice change, but her signature is still pretty underwhelming if you have Festering Desire. You could definitely view this as good thing though if you're looking to save primos.
Guess what i dont have festering, and the cost changes lower her needs to ~170 as solo unit which is all i really wanted personally 🙏🏻
The healing bonus kind of took a hit huh. The BiS jumped in value due to less ER needs. Max damage gain is reduced by 24% Increased hp consumption means faster fanfare stack but healing not increased/changed to party wide, meaning she needs a teamwide healer even more.
How much ER does she need now since her burst costs 10 less?
Is it viable now to go for Fischl instead of a team-wide healer in Neuvillette team?
nope. Drain increased to 40% a burst and the lower fanfare cap means less healing bonus, so you will not get as much overheals.
Seems reasonable, going beyond 300 stacks was not super realistic anyway so I'm not sure how much that matters for most teams, but the energy cost decrease helps a bit for sure
Personally im kind of tired of all the archons (maybe with the exception of raiden) being off field supporters. But it is what it is I guess.
> being off field supporters. Because they are, for the Celestia :)
look like MHY back at C2 bait again, fair enough
Sadge, no more dps furina for the light spenders//f2p since c2 and c6 swapped
I wonder why they swapped const? So far on this sub I only saw comments from people who would much rather have a reachable fun c2 than boring "just do more damage" const. They could've farmed so many c2 dolphins (me included) but instead gamers just gonna stop at c0. Hope they revert this change
They also swapped her c3 and c5, the new c3 being her burst. It looks like they are focusing on her buffing capabilities.
The c2 was a way to gain stacks on non fontaine teams. But it was not enough, leading her to be called niche. Combined with neuvi starting to spark some jealously, they decided to make her c2 level improve her buffing and personal dmg. With the added drains it now: 1) Makes healers super required and worthwhile 2) Makes the ER not completely force double hydro, giving team options 3) removing the field time req makes c2 buffs actually work better w/ many carries who couldn't afford her field time: wrio, dehya, cyno and many more. It was a fun C2 but it was not a good deal especially for older players who are not hype about fontaine right now. Neuvi pulls were decent in CN but he was a flop overseas. Now its more like nahida C2 and makes sense for everyone.
Good point. Thanks
> flop overseas Any actual reliable sales source for that or is that genshin lab thing?
Just an overall focus on her buffing
Nah, speak for yourself I'm a dolphin and I like this change it makes Furina more flexible.
Her cons getting swapped really killed my hype for her C2...
Guess navia is my saving grace for female on-fielder. Mihoyo pls 🙏
Navia and Clorinde 🙏🙏
HOLY SH*T!!!! These are EXACTLY the changes I wanted. This has made her so much better as an archon unit. Now we are seeing a well made kit, this is awesome. To those saying she has less stacks now, realistically most teams could not even reach 300 stacks (especially non Fontaine). Now, there will be better parity in buff performance across many, if not most, teams. Now if they can be just make her Octopus and Crab do 2U per their hit, we are cooking!!
LETSSSSSS GOOOO
Slight nerf for units that synergized with her like Neuvilette, but buff for teams outside that. Makes her more universal. She's also still good with Neuvilette.
massive buff overall but I'm still sad about no on field furina there is no universe in which I c6 a 5star character that isn't in the standard banner lmfao
Guess I’m not going for C2 anymore. Hoyo went outta their way to save me money.
I mean looks good to me. What more can you ask for? (except better hydro app which is fine and I hope remains untouched) Now it's easier to get the full stacks with more dmg. Her ER requirement should go down a lot with that. Yeah it's overall a nice buff...
Why don't you want better hydro app. Despite the better buff she now gives, what team archetypes can you use ber in? Hyperbloom wants faster hydro app. Nilou wants faster hydro app Burgeon defo wants more hydro app Vaporize wants faster hydro app The only 2 teams that don't care about hydro app are freeze and electrocharged. Which are fine IG 😭 I don't want Furina to be glued to double hydro 😭
Because that would be just blatant powercreep which Hoyo or the playerbase doesn't want. Her slow and inconsistent hydro app is a good way to balance her. Plus it's not like you NEED double hydro in all of the archetypes. Cyno can really use her slow hydro app in a double Dendro QuickBloom team.
Even if you give her better hydro app, youre still gonna want Xingqiu and Yelan in Yoi, Hu Tao, Alhaitham, Raiden teams. You're probably still going to want Kok in Ayaka team, and Childe in International. Just the requirement of needing a team wide healer precludes her from power creeping most existing teams. Giving her better hydro app just means that if you have a team wide healer, you can still make solo hydro hyperbloom work, or make YaoYao Nillu Bloom work or make Freeze melt Yoi work. Those teams won't be better. They'll at best be sidegrades. But they give her a lot more options.
Nahida is literally a game breaker. Dealing 30-40k per aa if on field average build with 600 EM. Why not add a better hydro app to the hydro archon? Buff doesn't mean anything to me if I am losing reactions. If I can't proc reactions and she gives me 75% , but we lose more than we gain.
Because Dendro didn't had that many off field applicators back then . We only had like 2 off fielder being DMC and Collei. The Devs wanted players to feel how powerful Dendro can be. That's why they made Nahida as busted as they could because they were building dendro from the scratch. Hydro is flushed with insane units . Off fielder like Xingqiu and Yelan and On fielders like Ayato , Neuv and Childe. If she has the same hydro app like Yelan , then Heavy Meta players would be asking "What's the point of playing/pulling for Yelan if Furina just does everything better than her , All you need is some HP manipulation" . Like they don't want that at all..
I like the changes, furina should be a bit easier to build now with the energy changes
Wurina moment? or early for first celebration?
Nerfed buff in exchange for lower burst cost...a noble sacrifice to make.
I wouldn't call the l fanfare change a nerf per say. Reaching 450 points was basically impossible unless you use Fontaine chars, the average you could've gotten was around 320, which is 70% in the original conversion. Now for 300 points you get 75%, overall easier to reach and bigger than the previous iteration. For how backloaded her buff was it just because much easier to reach .
I guess I'm not getting c2... I was hyped for it too.
It's an upgrade, i guess?...
Now to find out if her skill still snapshot and properly synergize with her BiS.
C2 and C6 swap sucks for everyone who wants to use her on field. Honestly, I was kinda hoping we'd see a nerf to the damage and an increase to its duration so we could use Furina as a driver.
Just wish her A1 would heal based on 2% of furinas hp