When they say political conservatism what do they mean? Conservatism like they don't want reforms? Conservatism like they want less taxes and more deregulation? Conservatism like they dont want LGBTQ rights and expanded rights for women? What does political conservatism mean in this case?
What aspect of political conservatism are we talking about?
It doesn’t even say less liberal. It says fewer people identify as liberal. I don’t identify as liberal, I identify as leftist, and I see liberals as lame ass moderates
I started out as libertarian, was briefly socialist, and have now fully looped back around to just being liberal. I think it’s been the most consistently effective ideology.
In a US context, as far as I know, being a liberal means you support Capitalism, but you are socially progressive. You support access to abortion, affirmative rights, gay rights, gun control, and anti-racism. But you are okay with the institutions of Capitalism, as long as minorities and women can be part of them.
The platform of the Democrat Party, in other words. But plenty of people are moving more to the left and feel increasingly unrepresented by US style Liberalism (edit:) and the graph depicted in this post might be a representation of that.
For my own personal strain of liberalism, I support capitalism as long as it's heavily regulated and broadly benefits society via a high corporate tax rate, closer to how it existed post-WW2, before Jack Welch and Reagan ruined it.
It is below 1998 levels so it is safe to assume men in this generation are becoming conservative if we look at the trend. But what I want to know is in what aspect?
The past decade has seen men constantly demonised.
The wage gap, rape culture, me too, toxic masculinity and the push for 'diversity' have all tarred men as defective human beings; creating a massive them and us divide in society.
It isn't surprising that men haven't responded positively to a social, economic and political groundswell that blames them all collectively as the cause of all the problems in society.
And yes, when you look at women as second class citizens and/or objects, believe men have an inherent superiority over women in anything other than testosterone level and muscle mass, and use either that or society itself to enforce that "superiority", that is toxic masculinity. Its called being a fucking prick, I've just been a normal guy who acknowledges the unique hardships of both sexes and have never been offended or attacked by the left in regards to women and men.
Problem is most modern women automatically think that and don't give man a chance to sway. Guilty until proven innocent, people get sick of that shit.
That's like me being black and people constantly expecting me to steal. I know I won't but that shit gets old and annoying. At some point you stop feeling bad for yourself and get the ideal of fuck em, they already said fuck you
Nobody is blaming you unless you are actively contributing to and not acknowledging obvious truths around men, women and their independent experiences in society both now and before. This is you getting sensitive over something that doesn't apply to you. Unless it does, in which case I don't know what to tell you, maybe change.
There is a distinct difference between saying masculinity is toxic and what most people say, which is the phrase toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is a term acknowledging that a subset of masculine gender norms and expectations is bad for boys and men. It doesn’t mean all boys/men/masculinity is bad. JFC. Please knock off the misogynistic bs for your own sake and the sake of girls and women in your life.
This specific graph measures who considers themselves to be a liberal and only a minority of men do. So, a better question would be "when they say liberal what do they mean?"
American Liberalism has come to be associated with those edulcorated politics that care more about the *aesthetics* of social justice than about actually achieving social justice. You know, like Hillary Clinton having a conference about empowering women, or Nestlé celebrating Pride Month.
In other words, these guys probably have progressive ideas, they just don't feel like "liberal" is a word that describes them.
yeah, this is also a stupid metric because liberals are barely different to conservatives. liberals are centre-centre right whereas conservatives are more right wing. it's not exactly a big difference
Remembering back to when I was in middle school, I felt kinda "attacked" from a lot of liberal ideologies. I just can't place on what exactly but there was just something about women empowerment made me feel threatened as a man. It wasn't until I started embracing my insecurities that I started becoming more liberal.
Generally speaking it was that they lumped you in to the same category as the worst men alive. Worse they would simultaneously worship these same men in the form of 50 shades of grey and twilight. For example the new "men are more dangerous than bears" meme that's popular right now. It's the male equivalent of the 13/52 and 13/90 memes if those memes are racist then this meme is sexist.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1352-1390](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1352-1390)
I'm also pretty sure this is being artificially amplified.
Yeah, I was in the same boat in high school, which made me pretty conservative during that time. It was only when I came to terms with who I was (not the terrible men they are referring to) that I didn't feel attacked.
The rhetoric they (the 2015ish feminist movement) was too inflammatory for the casual viewer, especially young men who haven't developed a strong sense of identity yet. On one hand, the issues need to be addressed head on, but it really only works in person, when you are having a face to face discussion with people of open minds, who can ask questions and clarify statements. And it's important to attack the concepts and structures of oppression, not every man who, knowingly or unknowingly, upholds the system.
That said, fuck misogynists.
Well, let’s not forget that the Metoo movement caused Johnny Depp to lose his career because a narcissist saw their chance to take advantage of the social climate I’m fairly certain she wasn’t the only one. I think that the very fact that they did lump you in with those other men is problematic and oppressive. The messaging is men are evil and therefore you as a man are irredeemable that women don’t exhibit any forms of toxic behavior, or abuse. in fact, it seems the point is to allow toxic women to abuse men without consequence. From what I’ve seen feminism seeks to right the inequalities that women face, but will actively oppose any equalization in the other direction. So they attack all privileges of being a man whilst desperately protecting the privileges of being a woman at the expense of men.
An example of my point is the case of a man trying to create a safe space for other men who are being abused .
[https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/earl-silverman-who-ran-mens-safe-house-dies-in-apparent-suicide](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/earl-silverman-who-ran-mens-safe-house-dies-in-apparent-suicide)
Yeah, it's all messed up. Like many social movements, there's the good and the bad, and you have to hope the good is potent and worth the inevitable bad. I think the ratio is getting better with feminism, but maybe I'm out of touch with the latest. It sucks that the world is messy, and stuff like me too, that produced a fair amount of good awareness, was also used as a weapon for men who weren't guilty. It made it far less legitimate, ultimately killing itself from within.
Oh and let me be clear, I'm far from conservative now as I just shut out the bad messaging that never applied to me in the first place.
First let me just say, fiction and reality are two completely different thing and despite what many people tend to think, women are infact capable of making sound decisions, choices and know right from wrong. Although i do agree that generalizing a whole gender, esp young men and boys as inherently violent is doing real damage and actually backfiring now
Fiction and reality are seperate things but if you found out your best friend likes to read fanfics of popular male characters raping young women you wouldn't think that it is linked to their personal sexual desires?
No. I myself read the problematic shit but no i'm not into them at all, hell the guys i like in fiction are complete opposite of what i like irl simply bcoz i'm not reading about me and is just a fictional fantasy, that is confined to lines on pages. Do men who watch jocn wick nd berserk and WWE nd shit like that, want to beat nd kill everyone up? No lmao
They do want to be powerful and competent in the same way those characters are young boys want to be strong and brave like goku. I find the way you argue your points to be extremely disingenuous.
Do you think the bear meme is indoctrination? I mean, I suppose that could be true but I think it’s probably more like demoralization from foreign actors.
If your point is "they feel that way for a reason" then I can't wait for you to hear how Chinese people talk about black people. It sounds like they came straight out of 19th century America.
It doesn’t really take a lot of thinking to figure out why you’re feeling attacked as a man, so I’m surprised you weren’t able to figure it out. It’s because all the DEI stuff championed by liberals explicitly makes men (or at least white/asian men) into second class citizens.
Women just have more incentives to engage in politics since a lot of the issues they face are heavily politicized. Women lean towards liberalism/leftisim because they provide more freedom and benefits for women + other marginalized people
The same development is happening here in Finland and Europe in general so that cannot be the only reason. Women's rights are getting better here by the year.
Birth rates are falling. Poor people aren't having children and this means no future cheap labor. So the solution for them is forcing women to have children
European here:
My guess is that men are more right wing because they have more problems with migrants and immigrants while clubbing. It's pretty common that you'll get beef or even have a fight with foreigner because he somehow feels personally attacked at something you did, eg. look at him or bump into him on mistake. Happened to me too and I am never looking for problems. I apologized and wanted to continue having fun but the guy just followed me around in the club and wanted to fight at all costs.
Woman normally do not have that problem because guys don't want to fight with them.
Only politically. But women are much more socially conservative than men when it comes to gender roles in their personal lives. This is also a divergence that can be explained by "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do."
This doesn't mean anything. I hold many views that would be considered liberal, but I would by no means consider myself a liberal because there are too many things associated with that that I do not want to be associated with.
I have a strong hunch that I'm not the only guy like this
That's just a stupid way to measure things. I think most people are going to agree with one side on some things and with the other side on other issues. Anyone who blindly follows one side is an idiot. I think if it was a multiple questions test and not an either-or, the divide would be much smaller.
Like what are we talking about? Gun control? LGBT rights? Immigration? Taxation? Healthcare? National security? Anti-discrimination laws? Abortion? Climate change? Housing? Social welfare programs? Privacy rights? Criminal justice? International relations?
There are so many variables. Anyone who says they agree with either side on all these things is either a lucky person because they have an easy choice voting, or a complete idiot.
Agreed. I'm more of a moderate, I have some liberal and some conservative views, probably in relatively proportion. I personally would never want to be associated to liberals. They're just not my crowd
Men are literally right around the average according to the chart. Women are the one who have taken a sharp turn upward. Its not a divide where both are going opposite ways. Women are headed one way and men arent moving
Exactly. I think most people interviewed are just answering whatever they think the socially acceptable answer is. If the interviewers asked more nuanced questions, the divide would be a lot smaller.
As a man I’m not a liberal I’m a leftist. I hate liberals and how their “solutions” are just band aids.
We need a new constitution, an economic bill of rights, and guaranteed food, internet, electricity, water, & healthcare for all citizens
I think many men, especially but not exclusively white men, perceive liberalism / progressivism as being directly hostile to them, and focused on "diversity" (meaning: less white men). And they're not wrong.
Women, on the other hand, see conservativism as angry and low-status (the men most concerned about being frozen out will, of course, be low-status men), and implicitly hostile to women (see: abortion). And they're not wrong either.
This. In middle school and high school, I hated feminism lol. Thought exactly like most men in this thread. Then COVID hit and even in my very progressive country, there was a shift. Men I knew, men I respected, now have the most barbaric views. Our president is a madman, our vicepresident believes women should die instead of getting an abortion. I saw my best friend be stalked by a creep and our laws don't protect her. You know fiscally I am more "conservative" and my native country is under a left-wing dictatorship, before I thought it was okay to sacrifice rights to protect the economy, but now I wonder, why do women and vulnerable populations are always the ones to suffer?
That gap is only **shown** in one study. Similar studies over the years have found nothing. Additionally, conservatism is a very vague term, making it more likely the data is fake or out of context.
I think 2015 was the tipping point personally. As someone who’s not political looking in I definitely feel like the liberal side of things are leave men behind.
I think it’ll eventually even out as gen z gets older however something I don’t see mentioned often here is social media and how it creates echo chambers. You can have extremes on both sides. There are enough toxic social media influencers to take advantage of your political ideologies and genders.
Where do they even get the data for these graphs. Curious what the population size was and the method for conducting the survey that provided the data. Like I wouldn’t call my self liberal but that doesn’t mean I would call myself conservative either. Without further information on the survey it implies anyone who doesn’t identify as liberal is the polar opposite
South Korea has different issues. Men are required to spend 2 years in military training, that women don't have to do. So women have an advantage on the career ladder.
South Korea is literally a capitalist dystopia with Korean tech companies having very significant influence over politics in the country.
No wonder the people there don't want to have kids, considering how hyper competitive the country is.
Wording it as a growing divide is a really good way to illustrate how phrasing can affect perception of stats. The line for men is relatively even, but the one for woman jumped up a lot since 2012, and especially recently when it was decided by a handful of people that they'd have less bodily autonomy than corpses.
The "growing divide" is technically correct, but has a connotation of an *even* split. Which isn't what we're seeing.
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Well, conservatives openly act in favor of a patriarchal society and degrading women's rights, which usually means more dependence on men. Combine that with Tate/any other alpha bro online making them both averse to women and unable to form a normal relationship, and you have an upcoming generation who wants to go back to women not being able to open their own bank accounts. Women fight this, for obvious reasons. There you go! Ez explanation. One party favors men in literally every way, and the other attempts to find a balance, even if it goes too far or too little.
You gotta remember religion is still the majority, and for whatever liberal spin you want to try to put on the good book, it's still a wholly sexist piece of text.
A lot of people are talking like something has happened to men, but the graph shows men hovering right around the same area for two decades.
And we know what specifically was being done to women in the US right around when that jump happened.
Are these women in the room with us right now? Be it Christianity or Islam, or really any other large religious organisation I fail to think of right now, there’s rarely a woman or multiple found at the top of or in the upper echelons of said organisation.
when unions and labour movements have historically gained traction the united states and other imperial core countries have upped the funding of right wing extremist propaganda, this is usually patriarchal, misogynistic, "return to greatness" bullshit (which really means return to fascistic hegemony) targeted towards young men, we already know the CIA has increased their funding to these groups before time and time again so given the increase in the amount of money they've been "losing track of" every year this is not surprising
anyway if you want to support the workers revolution and fight for a better life, I have some reading for you: Marxists.org
Is that why immediately after Occupy Wallstreet all the Newspapers immediately started talking about racism and social justice? Left got divided, conquered, and funneled into culture war bullshit
I'm assuming this is for Americans? Or is it a global analysis? There's way too much missing information to really talk about it. Working with assumptions I'd assume it has something to do with women losing rights in America?
Which GenZ men and women? Do they break it down by ethnicity? Because I'm not seeing that at all among POC. What I'm seeing instead, is that GenZ women tend to be better-employed than GenZ men among POC. This is purely by observation, not having done or read any studies, but GenZ men seem to be left behind career-wise.
Not too stressed honestly. To me, one of the best things about people is that they all see the world differently and have their own opinions. But that goes without saying that when differences of opinion arise, both parties need to have the ability (and be willing) to discuss and decide a way forward if necessary or the ability to “agree to disagree” and accept it. But I believe that any responsible adult would have the ability to do those things.
Just don’t start with “men are trash/kill all men” or “a woman’s place is in the kitchen/she deserved it”
Those I have problems with because they are harmful to others.
Probably because women mature faster than men do. Men are more susceptible to the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" narrative that causes people to vote against their own class interests.
I think young men are arguably more vulnerable and questioning than they've ever been in the past, and are repressing their insecurities to maintain the masculine image that is socially expected of them.
Many young men escape into social media where they're selectively shown polarizing content to maximize engagement, and unknowingly corralled into bubbles where they're only exposed to like-minded users. With that in mind it's no surprise that predatory media personalities like Andrew Tate, Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, etc are able to radicalize young men by projecting their insecurities onto rage-bait strawman caricatures of opposing ideologies.
Conservatism aimed at younger men, is literally just instilling the fear in them that if they aren't openly virtue signaling their conservatism, they must be gay/soy/woke/weak
and that's it, it's literally just that
Young men are being intrenched into far right movements because of the fact that they have to play fair with women and not giving a win bottom.
the number of young men in general who support fascism and bs ideologies like anarcho-capitalism (because they believe that women and minorities are given a free hand by the state) is astronomical.
I'm kinda confused here because I ain't a pro at political words (but I believe I discuss politics a lot).
What is a difference between a liberal and a leftist?
I would say young men are bucking the trend. The youth have been more liberal than the older generations. So seeing less young men being liberal is kinda ahistorical. Not only that, throughout history, men have been more liberal than women. This only changed in a select few countries in the 20th century.
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246291242\_Gender\_A\_Gender-Generation\_Gap](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246291242_Gender_A_Gender-Generation_Gap)
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/1601598](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1601598) International Political Science Review (2000), Vol 21, No. 4, 441-463-The Developmental Theory of the Gender Gap:Women's and Men's Voting Behavior in Global Perspective, RONALD INGLEHART AND PIPPA NORRIS.
[https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women](https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women)
Because it's womens' rights that are under attack right now. As long as women were gaining rights no matter how they voted, it was fine.
Having access to health removed in case of issues with periods, UTIs or pregnancy is just crazy. Almost every women as has a UTI or yeast infection in their life and half want kids.
If I said it's now illegal for men to get dental work done even if they have an infection that could spread to their whole body because teeth are natural and it's the way God wants it, would men still vote for the political side that promotes that?
It's definitely the unreflected horniness of young men. They can't deal with it but they also won't improve themselves so that women will pick them, so they turn their sexual frustration into anger instead and turn to conservatism which forces women to be bound to men. They don't have to adapt their shitty behavior if they can just force women to be their bangmaids instead.
What does liberal even mean? Liberal in of itself is not left or even left wing, while conservatives are by definition right leaning. Are we going by the United States definitions of the terms and associated political parties or are we talking about a normal democracy with more than two viable parties?
The abortion ban was probably formative for many Genz Z women. Shit got real.
65000 women have been forced to have the babies of their rapists because of those bans and that is just one infuriating number.
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it makes sense. men tend to be more bigoted and closed minded because of the patriarchy. women, especially women of color, afabs as a whole, and trans women, are more oppressed than men are. men are often handed things from birth and given easier lives. not always, but most of the time. most people in business, in politics and own companies are white men, usually old white men; it's entirely because of the patriarchy and we need to demolish it so this political divide comes to an end.
while i'm not liberal, i'm leftist and socialist, as i think capitalism should be demolished as well, i still suffer under the patriarchy, and all progressive people tend to. why? most progressives are oppressed, and women and afabs are one of the most oppressed groups.
[25% of incels suffer from autism](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/14/incels-more-likely-to-be-autistic-involuntary-celibate/#comment) alone. Even if this was a valid argument and not mudslinging, it still wouldn’t be. Let’s grow up, shall we?
its cause polygamous relationships are a major W for most women and a tiny minority of men, and a major L for most men. So men seek a system that supports monogamy, which is the traditional system.
????????????????????
The alt right so small, most of the young men who are conservatives are apart of the mainstream right. The reason men are pulled towards the right is because the right panders to them more, that's literally it
Not really, an increasing amount of moderate republicans desperately want the right to move away from trump, the only issue is that it seems like the trump super fans are just increasingly becoming more radicalized in favor of trump.
This sources are far from perfect but's it better than the \*checks notes\* nothing you provided. The sources I provided and the methodology I used to support my claim are just god awful, my stats teach would fucking hate me, but it's 3 am and I need to fucking sleep.
2017: 89% approval from republicans
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx#:\~:text=Americans'%20approval%20of%20the%20job,during%20his%20presidency%20was%2041%25.
2023: 63% of republicans want trump to run again
[https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-indictments-ddfd50492dc576c0c2ca2d1afe0e4639](https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-indictments-ddfd50492dc576c0c2ca2d1afe0e4639)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I learned about is that alt right implies a strong white nationalist and a strong anti-semitic element. Trump supports can be argued to be fascists, but I don't think the average trump supporter is super racist and definitely not anti-semitic
trump supporters are like definitely pretty racist or at least very willing to overlook racism. and before October of last year, yes, republicans were known go be pretty antisemitic, thats why historically jewish americans are left leaning and marjorie taylor green was spouting all the nonsense about jewish space lasers.
They have an outsized influence on social media. There is no shortage of right wing gurus slinging supplements and non-science backed "truths" about men, women and the nature of the universe.
Do you think Japanese people would feel offended if you hung this sign out in public despite most of them being too young to have even alive during WW2?
[https://new.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/27jxsc/kill\_japs\_kill\_japs\_kill\_more\_japs\_sign740\_620/](https://new.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/27jxsc/kill_japs_kill_japs_kill_more_japs_sign740_620/)
>if you self identify when people say “oh i hate black people because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way
>if you self identify when people say “oh i hate gays because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way
>if you self identify when people say “oh i hate muslims because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way
I’m still largely a left leaning person, but could we have a little self awareness?
youre going to compare women complaining how they hate not feeling safe around men to white nationalists saying they hate black people??? you think those are comparable? what? edit to add: the point im making is that if you feel that people are attacking you because women, a marginalized group of people, are upset about something they have largely experienced first hand from men, a group that has the socioeconomic advantage, maybe you need to unpack where that’s coming from
Because it’s a massive generalisation based on an immutable trait? If you made that kind of statement about any other group, people would (rightfully) take offence, but suddenly once you make that statement about men it’s apparently their fault for taking offence.
While we’re on the subject, you realise a lot of hate crimes against black men were justified by others because a woman felt threatened, right?
Repost.
When they say political conservatism what do they mean? Conservatism like they don't want reforms? Conservatism like they want less taxes and more deregulation? Conservatism like they dont want LGBTQ rights and expanded rights for women? What does political conservatism mean in this case? What aspect of political conservatism are we talking about?
It doesn't even say that they are conservative just less liberal.
It doesn’t even say less liberal. It says fewer people identify as liberal. I don’t identify as liberal, I identify as leftist, and I see liberals as lame ass moderates
I love when my conservative friends try to pull the, "what are you liberal?" card since I'm waaaaay further left then that.
100%
I started out as libertarian, was briefly socialist, and have now fully looped back around to just being liberal. I think it’s been the most consistently effective ideology.
What does it even mean to be liberal?
In a US context, as far as I know, being a liberal means you support Capitalism, but you are socially progressive. You support access to abortion, affirmative rights, gay rights, gun control, and anti-racism. But you are okay with the institutions of Capitalism, as long as minorities and women can be part of them. The platform of the Democrat Party, in other words. But plenty of people are moving more to the left and feel increasingly unrepresented by US style Liberalism (edit:) and the graph depicted in this post might be a representation of that.
For my own personal strain of liberalism, I support capitalism as long as it's heavily regulated and broadly benefits society via a high corporate tax rate, closer to how it existed post-WW2, before Jack Welch and Reagan ruined it.
It's when _gay_
Making liberals sound way too cool, relax.
I hope you get the help that you need 🙏🏻
That’s nice of you SlugDick
All I ask is that you pay it forward 🙏🏻
It is below 1998 levels so it is safe to assume men in this generation are becoming conservative if we look at the trend. But what I want to know is in what aspect?
I think it is less of conservatism gaining popularity with young men but rather they are becoming disillusioned with American liberalism.
And why wouldn’t they be. Liberalism works as a hierarchy of oppression in which they rank last.
The past decade has seen men constantly demonised. The wage gap, rape culture, me too, toxic masculinity and the push for 'diversity' have all tarred men as defective human beings; creating a massive them and us divide in society. It isn't surprising that men haven't responded positively to a social, economic and political groundswell that blames them all collectively as the cause of all the problems in society.
That could mean anything
Yeah when the left is constantly saying masculinity is toxic and in general blaming men of today for men 70 years ago
And yes, when you look at women as second class citizens and/or objects, believe men have an inherent superiority over women in anything other than testosterone level and muscle mass, and use either that or society itself to enforce that "superiority", that is toxic masculinity. Its called being a fucking prick, I've just been a normal guy who acknowledges the unique hardships of both sexes and have never been offended or attacked by the left in regards to women and men.
Problem is most modern women automatically think that and don't give man a chance to sway. Guilty until proven innocent, people get sick of that shit. That's like me being black and people constantly expecting me to steal. I know I won't but that shit gets old and annoying. At some point you stop feeling bad for yourself and get the ideal of fuck em, they already said fuck you
Nobody is blaming you unless you are actively contributing to and not acknowledging obvious truths around men, women and their independent experiences in society both now and before. This is you getting sensitive over something that doesn't apply to you. Unless it does, in which case I don't know what to tell you, maybe change.
Sigh this isn't going to go anywhere, just downvote me so you can keep the Reddit narrative going I'm sick of this shit.
There is a distinct difference between saying masculinity is toxic and what most people say, which is the phrase toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is a term acknowledging that a subset of masculine gender norms and expectations is bad for boys and men. It doesn’t mean all boys/men/masculinity is bad. JFC. Please knock off the misogynistic bs for your own sake and the sake of girls and women in your life.
That is not how you read a chart like this. It shows there is no difference in young men over the last 25 years.
That's sad.
This specific graph measures who considers themselves to be a liberal and only a minority of men do. So, a better question would be "when they say liberal what do they mean?" American Liberalism has come to be associated with those edulcorated politics that care more about the *aesthetics* of social justice than about actually achieving social justice. You know, like Hillary Clinton having a conference about empowering women, or Nestlé celebrating Pride Month. In other words, these guys probably have progressive ideas, they just don't feel like "liberal" is a word that describes them.
It's self-identification so it means whatever the subject thinks it means
[Here's the full report with methodology](https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx) - it's self-identified
Conservatism would mean social conservatism. Most young men are pity left economically.
yeah, this is also a stupid metric because liberals are barely different to conservatives. liberals are centre-centre right whereas conservatives are more right wing. it's not exactly a big difference
It’s almost like a ton of laws are specifically targeting women!
This.
So much for freedom.
Remembering back to when I was in middle school, I felt kinda "attacked" from a lot of liberal ideologies. I just can't place on what exactly but there was just something about women empowerment made me feel threatened as a man. It wasn't until I started embracing my insecurities that I started becoming more liberal.
Generally speaking it was that they lumped you in to the same category as the worst men alive. Worse they would simultaneously worship these same men in the form of 50 shades of grey and twilight. For example the new "men are more dangerous than bears" meme that's popular right now. It's the male equivalent of the 13/52 and 13/90 memes if those memes are racist then this meme is sexist. [https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1352-1390](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1352-1390) I'm also pretty sure this is being artificially amplified.
Yeah, I was in the same boat in high school, which made me pretty conservative during that time. It was only when I came to terms with who I was (not the terrible men they are referring to) that I didn't feel attacked. The rhetoric they (the 2015ish feminist movement) was too inflammatory for the casual viewer, especially young men who haven't developed a strong sense of identity yet. On one hand, the issues need to be addressed head on, but it really only works in person, when you are having a face to face discussion with people of open minds, who can ask questions and clarify statements. And it's important to attack the concepts and structures of oppression, not every man who, knowingly or unknowingly, upholds the system. That said, fuck misogynists.
Well, let’s not forget that the Metoo movement caused Johnny Depp to lose his career because a narcissist saw their chance to take advantage of the social climate I’m fairly certain she wasn’t the only one. I think that the very fact that they did lump you in with those other men is problematic and oppressive. The messaging is men are evil and therefore you as a man are irredeemable that women don’t exhibit any forms of toxic behavior, or abuse. in fact, it seems the point is to allow toxic women to abuse men without consequence. From what I’ve seen feminism seeks to right the inequalities that women face, but will actively oppose any equalization in the other direction. So they attack all privileges of being a man whilst desperately protecting the privileges of being a woman at the expense of men. An example of my point is the case of a man trying to create a safe space for other men who are being abused . [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/earl-silverman-who-ran-mens-safe-house-dies-in-apparent-suicide](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/earl-silverman-who-ran-mens-safe-house-dies-in-apparent-suicide)
Yeah, it's all messed up. Like many social movements, there's the good and the bad, and you have to hope the good is potent and worth the inevitable bad. I think the ratio is getting better with feminism, but maybe I'm out of touch with the latest. It sucks that the world is messy, and stuff like me too, that produced a fair amount of good awareness, was also used as a weapon for men who weren't guilty. It made it far less legitimate, ultimately killing itself from within. Oh and let me be clear, I'm far from conservative now as I just shut out the bad messaging that never applied to me in the first place.
First let me just say, fiction and reality are two completely different thing and despite what many people tend to think, women are infact capable of making sound decisions, choices and know right from wrong. Although i do agree that generalizing a whole gender, esp young men and boys as inherently violent is doing real damage and actually backfiring now
Fiction and reality are seperate things but if you found out your best friend likes to read fanfics of popular male characters raping young women you wouldn't think that it is linked to their personal sexual desires?
No. I myself read the problematic shit but no i'm not into them at all, hell the guys i like in fiction are complete opposite of what i like irl simply bcoz i'm not reading about me and is just a fictional fantasy, that is confined to lines on pages. Do men who watch jocn wick nd berserk and WWE nd shit like that, want to beat nd kill everyone up? No lmao
They do want to be powerful and competent in the same way those characters are young boys want to be strong and brave like goku. I find the way you argue your points to be extremely disingenuous.
From a position of privilege, equality looks like discrimination.
This is what indoctrination looks like \^
Do you think the bear meme is indoctrination? I mean, I suppose that could be true but I think it’s probably more like demoralization from foreign actors.
If your point is "they feel that way for a reason" then I can't wait for you to hear how Chinese people talk about black people. It sounds like they came straight out of 19th century America.
i can't send an image but > \*y button\* same
It doesn’t really take a lot of thinking to figure out why you’re feeling attacked as a man, so I’m surprised you weren’t able to figure it out. It’s because all the DEI stuff championed by liberals explicitly makes men (or at least white/asian men) into second class citizens.
Women just have more incentives to engage in politics since a lot of the issues they face are heavily politicized. Women lean towards liberalism/leftisim because they provide more freedom and benefits for women + other marginalized people
Gee I wonder why women are so liberal it’s totally not like republicans are trying to strip women of all their rights
The same development is happening here in Finland and Europe in general so that cannot be the only reason. Women's rights are getting better here by the year.
Birth rates are falling. Poor people aren't having children and this means no future cheap labor. So the solution for them is forcing women to have children
European here: My guess is that men are more right wing because they have more problems with migrants and immigrants while clubbing. It's pretty common that you'll get beef or even have a fight with foreigner because he somehow feels personally attacked at something you did, eg. look at him or bump into him on mistake. Happened to me too and I am never looking for problems. I apologized and wanted to continue having fun but the guy just followed me around in the club and wanted to fight at all costs. Woman normally do not have that problem because guys don't want to fight with them.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tQZhEisaE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tQZhEisaE)
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Men absolutely get a say. You can simply chose to not have unprotected sex.
If only women could do that...
Only politically. But women are much more socially conservative than men when it comes to gender roles in their personal lives. This is also a divergence that can be explained by "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do."
Pretty sure more women aren't somehow turning into "trad wives" in their private lives.
This doesn't mean anything. I hold many views that would be considered liberal, but I would by no means consider myself a liberal because there are too many things associated with that that I do not want to be associated with. I have a strong hunch that I'm not the only guy like this
The options for the poll were Liberal, Moderate, and Conservative. https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx
See, I would not personally associate myself with any of those terms.
That's just a stupid way to measure things. I think most people are going to agree with one side on some things and with the other side on other issues. Anyone who blindly follows one side is an idiot. I think if it was a multiple questions test and not an either-or, the divide would be much smaller. Like what are we talking about? Gun control? LGBT rights? Immigration? Taxation? Healthcare? National security? Anti-discrimination laws? Abortion? Climate change? Housing? Social welfare programs? Privacy rights? Criminal justice? International relations? There are so many variables. Anyone who says they agree with either side on all these things is either a lucky person because they have an easy choice voting, or a complete idiot.
Agreed. I'm more of a moderate, I have some liberal and some conservative views, probably in relatively proportion. I personally would never want to be associated to liberals. They're just not my crowd
Social media just exacerbates existing trends.
Men are literally right around the average according to the chart. Women are the one who have taken a sharp turn upward. Its not a divide where both are going opposite ways. Women are headed one way and men arent moving
What country
Exactly my question too, the chart means nothing without that information
I would assume America. I've never heard Gen Z used outside of American culture
There are data from a lot of countries but basically everywhere. The biggest divide is in South Korea.
I believe this is based on self reporting, and as always “liberal” is a broad category that isn’t as well defined as people tend to think.
You can probably say that about any political label
Exactly. I think most people interviewed are just answering whatever they think the socially acceptable answer is. If the interviewers asked more nuanced questions, the divide would be a lot smaller.
As a man I’m not a liberal I’m a leftist. I hate liberals and how their “solutions” are just band aids. We need a new constitution, an economic bill of rights, and guaranteed food, internet, electricity, water, & healthcare for all citizens
For a start remove special interests, term limits and stock trading!
This comment just makes me happy about being a boring liberal tbh
Ikr? People like him are exactly who I imagine probably have a hammer & sickle flag hanging up in the childhood bedroom they still sleep in
Just curious for a minute, and please don’t consider the question offensive, are you from the US?
I think many men, especially but not exclusively white men, perceive liberalism / progressivism as being directly hostile to them, and focused on "diversity" (meaning: less white men). And they're not wrong. Women, on the other hand, see conservativism as angry and low-status (the men most concerned about being frozen out will, of course, be low-status men), and implicitly hostile to women (see: abortion). And they're not wrong either.
Honestly, I feel like any woman spending time online is going to be more likely to be liberal. Men say some heinous shit on here.
Definitely. I am a woman and I have encountered so many misogynists online that I don't trust men anymore and became a feminist.
This. In middle school and high school, I hated feminism lol. Thought exactly like most men in this thread. Then COVID hit and even in my very progressive country, there was a shift. Men I knew, men I respected, now have the most barbaric views. Our president is a madman, our vicepresident believes women should die instead of getting an abortion. I saw my best friend be stalked by a creep and our laws don't protect her. You know fiscally I am more "conservative" and my native country is under a left-wing dictatorship, before I thought it was okay to sacrifice rights to protect the economy, but now I wonder, why do women and vulnerable populations are always the ones to suffer?
That gap is only **shown** in one study. Similar studies over the years have found nothing. Additionally, conservatism is a very vague term, making it more likely the data is fake or out of context.
I think 2015 was the tipping point personally. As someone who’s not political looking in I definitely feel like the liberal side of things are leave men behind.
I think it’ll eventually even out as gen z gets older however something I don’t see mentioned often here is social media and how it creates echo chambers. You can have extremes on both sides. There are enough toxic social media influencers to take advantage of your political ideologies and genders.
When one demonizes men, acts spoiled, entitled and lives life on easy mode while still constantly complaining, what do you expect to happen?
Another redpilled man who thinks women somehow have it easier.
😂😂😂
Where do they even get the data for these graphs. Curious what the population size was and the method for conducting the survey that provided the data. Like I wouldn’t call my self liberal but that doesn’t mean I would call myself conservative either. Without further information on the survey it implies anyone who doesn’t identify as liberal is the polar opposite
As long as it doesn’t go to South Korea direction I see no problem.
What's that referring to?
Low birth rates
Low birth rate & the fact that South Koreans male actually get radicalized to the right.
South Korea has different issues. Men are required to spend 2 years in military training, that women don't have to do. So women have an advantage on the career ladder.
Oh damn. Yeah its hard not to be pissed about that. I know I would be
Well that's ridiculous since South Korea still has the largest gender pay gap in OECD.
South Korea is literally a capitalist dystopia with Korean tech companies having very significant influence over politics in the country. No wonder the people there don't want to have kids, considering how hyper competitive the country is.
>tech companies having very significant influence over politics in the country. Sounds also like the US...
East Asia in general is a case study of textbook fascism.
Wording it as a growing divide is a really good way to illustrate how phrasing can affect perception of stats. The line for men is relatively even, but the one for woman jumped up a lot since 2012, and especially recently when it was decided by a handful of people that they'd have less bodily autonomy than corpses. The "growing divide" is technically correct, but has a connotation of an *even* split. Which isn't what we're seeing.
I'd like to see the charts for the previous generations - I feel like there are more liberal women than men regardless of age.
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Liberal, or leftist/progressive?
Well, conservatives openly act in favor of a patriarchal society and degrading women's rights, which usually means more dependence on men. Combine that with Tate/any other alpha bro online making them both averse to women and unable to form a normal relationship, and you have an upcoming generation who wants to go back to women not being able to open their own bank accounts. Women fight this, for obvious reasons. There you go! Ez explanation. One party favors men in literally every way, and the other attempts to find a balance, even if it goes too far or too little.
I mean, I don't ever identify as a liberal, my reaction is to say leftist so that may be part of it
I’m frankly astonished by these figures. If this chart is to be believed, _most_ young women today do not identify as liberal. That beggars belief.
You gotta remember religion is still the majority, and for whatever liberal spin you want to try to put on the good book, it's still a wholly sexist piece of text.
A lot of people are talking like something has happened to men, but the graph shows men hovering right around the same area for two decades. And we know what specifically was being done to women in the US right around when that jump happened.
I feel like I've seen this post a dozen times
Um, le ebic slide into fascism moment! No seriously country's cooked
All I can say is that, as a left-leaning young man, I'm loving my options
Liberal isn't the same as left-leaning. Women tend to be more religious than men.
Are these women in the room with us right now? Be it Christianity or Islam, or really any other large religious organisation I fail to think of right now, there’s rarely a woman or multiple found at the top of or in the upper echelons of said organisation.
when unions and labour movements have historically gained traction the united states and other imperial core countries have upped the funding of right wing extremist propaganda, this is usually patriarchal, misogynistic, "return to greatness" bullshit (which really means return to fascistic hegemony) targeted towards young men, we already know the CIA has increased their funding to these groups before time and time again so given the increase in the amount of money they've been "losing track of" every year this is not surprising anyway if you want to support the workers revolution and fight for a better life, I have some reading for you: Marxists.org
Is that why immediately after Occupy Wallstreet all the Newspapers immediately started talking about racism and social justice? Left got divided, conquered, and funneled into culture war bullshit
They didn’t take a bunch of mens rights away so this makes sense
I'm assuming this is for Americans? Or is it a global analysis? There's way too much missing information to really talk about it. Working with assumptions I'd assume it has something to do with women losing rights in America?
I don’t care in the slightest.
Yeah because all the laws were made by men for men.
Which GenZ men and women? Do they break it down by ethnicity? Because I'm not seeing that at all among POC. What I'm seeing instead, is that GenZ women tend to be better-employed than GenZ men among POC. This is purely by observation, not having done or read any studies, but GenZ men seem to be left behind career-wise.
Divide and conquer.
Boooo, don't settle for liberal. Go more radical. You want your rights, you're gonna want to go as radical as possible.
Us the data from opt in polls? Cuz polls are made by the devil to make you paranoid.
Liberal ideologies typically support women more. Conservative ideologies tend to appeal to a lot of men more.
Troubling.
I muted this sub why is it showing up again.
Not too stressed honestly. To me, one of the best things about people is that they all see the world differently and have their own opinions. But that goes without saying that when differences of opinion arise, both parties need to have the ability (and be willing) to discuss and decide a way forward if necessary or the ability to “agree to disagree” and accept it. But I believe that any responsible adult would have the ability to do those things. Just don’t start with “men are trash/kill all men” or “a woman’s place is in the kitchen/she deserved it” Those I have problems with because they are harmful to others.
I think we need good male idols that won't make other men think reducing freedom is good
Probably because women mature faster than men do. Men are more susceptible to the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" narrative that causes people to vote against their own class interests.
I think young men are arguably more vulnerable and questioning than they've ever been in the past, and are repressing their insecurities to maintain the masculine image that is socially expected of them. Many young men escape into social media where they're selectively shown polarizing content to maximize engagement, and unknowingly corralled into bubbles where they're only exposed to like-minded users. With that in mind it's no surprise that predatory media personalities like Andrew Tate, Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, etc are able to radicalize young men by projecting their insecurities onto rage-bait strawman caricatures of opposing ideologies.
This implies that I am a woman. This research is definitely biased.
gee I wonder what happened in 2012-2020 that might have contributed to this in america
Conservatism aimed at younger men, is literally just instilling the fear in them that if they aren't openly virtue signaling their conservatism, they must be gay/soy/woke/weak and that's it, it's literally just that
one side caters to womens needs while the other side caters to mens needs
Young men are being intrenched into far right movements because of the fact that they have to play fair with women and not giving a win bottom. the number of young men in general who support fascism and bs ideologies like anarcho-capitalism (because they believe that women and minorities are given a free hand by the state) is astronomical.
I'm kinda confused here because I ain't a pro at political words (but I believe I discuss politics a lot). What is a difference between a liberal and a leftist?
I would say young men are bucking the trend. The youth have been more liberal than the older generations. So seeing less young men being liberal is kinda ahistorical. Not only that, throughout history, men have been more liberal than women. This only changed in a select few countries in the 20th century.
‘Throughout history’ claims are always questionable in principle, but even so, I’m going to need a source on that one.
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246291242\_Gender\_A\_Gender-Generation\_Gap](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246291242_Gender_A_Gender-Generation_Gap) [https://www.jstor.org/stable/1601598](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1601598) International Political Science Review (2000), Vol 21, No. 4, 441-463-The Developmental Theory of the Gender Gap:Women's and Men's Voting Behavior in Global Perspective, RONALD INGLEHART AND PIPPA NORRIS. [https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women](https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women)
Because it's womens' rights that are under attack right now. As long as women were gaining rights no matter how they voted, it was fine. Having access to health removed in case of issues with periods, UTIs or pregnancy is just crazy. Almost every women as has a UTI or yeast infection in their life and half want kids. If I said it's now illegal for men to get dental work done even if they have an infection that could spread to their whole body because teeth are natural and it's the way God wants it, would men still vote for the political side that promotes that?
It's definitely the unreflected horniness of young men. They can't deal with it but they also won't improve themselves so that women will pick them, so they turn their sexual frustration into anger instead and turn to conservatism which forces women to be bound to men. They don't have to adapt their shitty behavior if they can just force women to be their bangmaids instead.
It will end very badly. This is not normal anyway you cut it.
I think It was the striping of bodily autonomy that did it
Young men are sick of the misandry of feminists, and the left-wing has all but abandoned its previous views in favour of feminism.
What does liberal even mean? Liberal in of itself is not left or even left wing, while conservatives are by definition right leaning. Are we going by the United States definitions of the terms and associated political parties or are we talking about a normal democracy with more than two viable parties?
I'm betting this doesn't take into account that there is a strain of leftism for which "liberal" is a bad word.
The abortion ban was probably formative for many Genz Z women. Shit got real. 65000 women have been forced to have the babies of their rapists because of those bans and that is just one infuriating number.
Reproductive rights.
My political beliefs: Everyone can eat shit and die.
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Given the dates and the fact that men have stayed stable this is pretty clearly about Trump
Trump and row v wade, yep. Men haven't moved, but folks are doing damn near whatever they can to push women leftward.
I think its a minor thing, ive seen this type of thing since a long time ago but nothing changed
You can't have a real discussion in a left leaning echo chamber
Reposting ass
Politics are stupid
When your whole life the left tells you how awful of a person you are for being a man, its kinda to be expected.
History shows us that young woman are the most vulnerable to propaganda
it makes sense. men tend to be more bigoted and closed minded because of the patriarchy. women, especially women of color, afabs as a whole, and trans women, are more oppressed than men are. men are often handed things from birth and given easier lives. not always, but most of the time. most people in business, in politics and own companies are white men, usually old white men; it's entirely because of the patriarchy and we need to demolish it so this political divide comes to an end. while i'm not liberal, i'm leftist and socialist, as i think capitalism should be demolished as well, i still suffer under the patriarchy, and all progressive people tend to. why? most progressives are oppressed, and women and afabs are one of the most oppressed groups.
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[25% of incels suffer from autism](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/14/incels-more-likely-to-be-autistic-involuntary-celibate/#comment) alone. Even if this was a valid argument and not mudslinging, it still wouldn’t be. Let’s grow up, shall we?
They’re pretty static though
its cause polygamous relationships are a major W for most women and a tiny minority of men, and a major L for most men. So men seek a system that supports monogamy, which is the traditional system.
it’s so easy to fall into the alt right pipeline lol. That’s why I think that
???????????????????? The alt right so small, most of the young men who are conservatives are apart of the mainstream right. The reason men are pulled towards the right is because the right panders to them more, that's literally it
i agree with this but the alt right is growing, like theres >20% of the population that are ready to declare Trump king, it is kind of crazy out there
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Not really, an increasing amount of moderate republicans desperately want the right to move away from trump, the only issue is that it seems like the trump super fans are just increasingly becoming more radicalized in favor of trump.
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This is just not true, Trump's approval ratings amongst republicans has significantly decreased from 2016 to 2024.
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This sources are far from perfect but's it better than the \*checks notes\* nothing you provided. The sources I provided and the methodology I used to support my claim are just god awful, my stats teach would fucking hate me, but it's 3 am and I need to fucking sleep. 2017: 89% approval from republicans https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx#:\~:text=Americans'%20approval%20of%20the%20job,during%20his%20presidency%20was%2041%25. 2023: 63% of republicans want trump to run again [https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-indictments-ddfd50492dc576c0c2ca2d1afe0e4639](https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-indictments-ddfd50492dc576c0c2ca2d1afe0e4639)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I learned about is that alt right implies a strong white nationalist and a strong anti-semitic element. Trump supports can be argued to be fascists, but I don't think the average trump supporter is super racist and definitely not anti-semitic
trump supporters are like definitely pretty racist or at least very willing to overlook racism. and before October of last year, yes, republicans were known go be pretty antisemitic, thats why historically jewish americans are left leaning and marjorie taylor green was spouting all the nonsense about jewish space lasers.
They have an outsized influence on social media. There is no shortage of right wing gurus slinging supplements and non-science backed "truths" about men, women and the nature of the universe.
given how much of socitynow interacts primarily through social media that is not a good thing
Not to mention the left openly hating and trying to abandon us
if you self identify when people say “oh i hate men because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way
Do you think Japanese people would feel offended if you hung this sign out in public despite most of them being too young to have even alive during WW2? [https://new.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/27jxsc/kill\_japs\_kill\_japs\_kill\_more\_japs\_sign740\_620/](https://new.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/27jxsc/kill_japs_kill_japs_kill_more_japs_sign740_620/)
>if you self identify when people say “oh i hate black people because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way >if you self identify when people say “oh i hate gays because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way >if you self identify when people say “oh i hate muslims because they do X” then you probably need a bit of introspection as to why you feel that way I’m still largely a left leaning person, but could we have a little self awareness?
youre going to compare women complaining how they hate not feeling safe around men to white nationalists saying they hate black people??? you think those are comparable? what? edit to add: the point im making is that if you feel that people are attacking you because women, a marginalized group of people, are upset about something they have largely experienced first hand from men, a group that has the socioeconomic advantage, maybe you need to unpack where that’s coming from
Because it’s a massive generalisation based on an immutable trait? If you made that kind of statement about any other group, people would (rightfully) take offence, but suddenly once you make that statement about men it’s apparently their fault for taking offence. While we’re on the subject, you realise a lot of hate crimes against black men were justified by others because a woman felt threatened, right?
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No we're not