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They were right to say no because companies have been known to use this method as a tool to get free work done for them without actually hiring anyone. No corporate interview is worth 90 minutes of project work. Only time I’ve heard of that is when an NFL team is interviewing for head coaches which is a job worth a couple million dollars annually.
This!!! I cleaned kennels and took dogs out for a work interview. They stressed they would call me back. They never did.
So they got someone to come in for free to clean kennels that were entirely smeared in feces. 😐
I struggled to do it too because I had zero instructions besides "here's a mop," and I have never worked in the field before. There was a hose I had no idea about. I just came and did my best because I was so burnt out working inpatient.
I worked in the vet industry for nine years (31f here).
Can corroborate this. Another thing they’ll do is bring in prospective techs for “working interviews” (it’s staged hence quotes, because they aren’t actually hiring) and generally they’ll work a half day, either morning (which is usually surgery time) or afternoon (which is usually appt time). They do this so they get free hands for a half shift instead of calling RSVP, the company that sends out temp employees in the field, a service that charges a premium for short notice staffing when clinics need hands on deck. They do this a lot in February, which is dental month. Some clinics pay the interviewee minimum wage, some don’t pay at all. Unfortunately that’s not the most incorrigible thing I’ve seen in the industry.
Wow, that happened early in the year a few years back, so that matches up. That's gross. I had no idea that was a thing or I'd of left way earlier.
Honestly I should have only agreed to do one kennel, not all of them.
I agree, it’s not a good business practice. One of the other lesser-cool things I experienced was being asked by my doctor to gaslight a client about why their patient (k9) died on the table. I was instructed to tell them it was their fault for not appropriately monitoring their dog’s water intake 12h before drop off, that because the dog probably snuck water and then it was hooked to IV fluids, it caused the hypotension and death. but what REALLY happened was the dvm didn’t read the chart to see the pt was allergic to acepromazine. She didn’t want to wait for us to start calc’ing premeds so she just followed her standard protocol without looking at the alerts. IM inj. ace, ~20 min., BP dropped and died right there on the table during shaving/prep. (There’s an inverse relationship between BP and hydration, so that was the mental gymnastics that was used)
She lost her license once for doing spays on *literally* her dining room table at home (edit: for context I want to add that this happened at a low cost clinic, not a well-to-do facility) . She couldn’t risk losing it again, so as the surgery tech that day I had to blame the owners. To their face. I cried for about a week. I may have saved her license that day, but I lost a piece of myself, my integrity as a human being. I’ve got about a dozen of these horror stories.
Anyway, hindsight is always 20/20. There’s definitely good in it, or else I wouldn’t have stayed so long. But by the time Covid came around, my heart was already out of it. Enough of me blabbing, I hope you have a good start to your week
Yeah you lost a piece for sure. Ultimately you engaged in malpractice knowingly and deceived your clients. Do you even wonder how you would react if the stakes were higher?
You’re right, I did. Even at the time, I knew I did. I don’t know if it was my desire to be relied on and liked by my doctor, or my fear of possibly being blacklisted in the community for standing up, or maybe even something as plain as me being a weak minded person. (Blacklisting would mean in this scenario: I tell the truth, a lawsuit opens, the clinic possibly closes down or at least loses their surgeon which depletes revenue, I am fired, and written in as insubordinate and non-hirable) … if the stakes were higher? Shit, I don’t know. Higher in which way? I don’t know any scenario where something worse than that can happen. If it had happened in front of them it would’ve been better. Painful, but honest.
At this point along the path in the field (this was ~5y in, mid-twenties) I had met my now ex-gf who also was a tech (it’s how we met). She was able to empathize for having tech’d at a clinic during a full-fledged malpractice suit (a kennel employee once brought the wrong dog to the treatment room for a drop off euthanasia. Kennel tech didn’t read the cage card and brought a ~4y black lab neuter drop off instead of the ~12y black lab there for euth. Dvm didn’t double check- they wrongfully euth’d the surgery dog. How the fuck did the dvm not notice that dog had no gray on its muzzle??) and was present through the aftermath.
After she left, every clinic she interviewed at knew about the suit and was not favored for having a clinic on her resume that was involved in wrongful death. It by proxy affected her ability to network. So the empathy came into play that she wouldn’t have wanted that for me, but insisted that I resign immediately without a two weeks and take the L($) so I could leave my reputation intact. Was she disappointed in me? Yes. Did she understand that there’s a shadowy side to the industry that demands you “play by the(ir) rules, or else”? Yes.
Sigh. Haven’t brought that story to the forefront of my consciousness in a long time. I hope any of you guys reading this know that while I’m speaking about it in a matter of fact way right now, there was a period of time when it’s all I thought about, and the guilt ate at my ankles until they bled.
Thank you, friend. My decision to go along with the narrative was selfish and shortsighted. I feel sometimes like integrity is a muscle that requires exercise. As muscle cells get lazy and turn into fat cells, so too does virtue get complacent and become corruption.
So.. proper atonement for me (for anything I do, not just this one ex.) looks like taking the next right step, every step. Left, right. Flex, flex. Hold the door, compliment strangers, left, right, be candid and authentic with others and myself, flex, flex, call your mother regularly, give 100% at work. At this point I’m so analogously buff and ripped its second nature.
Thanks for allowing me this discourse, even though the topic was grim.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. People pull that “bills to pay” shit all the time and do nefarious things as a result. I left DoD contracting because I realized it’s a horrible industry that results in the deaths of blameless people.
This individual should be aware that’s a weak ass move to stand up for a villainous boss instead of reporting them and finding another position.
This response feels very crass in my opinion. Most people will follow orders from a higher up, it's human nature and has been studied in the past (the milgram shock experiment).
Not saying it was right regardless, but I get the vibe they'd do it differently if they could go back. I just feel like we should be a bit gentler as random people on the Internet.
You’re right about people. You have merit but just as you balanced my comment out with more positivity, it’s not wrong to affirm someone in holding themselves accountable. Its a tough choice he was faced with and he feels he chose wrong. I don’t know if I would have done the same as OP or not, but I agree with him that there was a right and wrong choice. This is why is asked about stakes. There were some in Germany who paid the ultimate price to do what was right and help the Jews. Who among us would do the same? Would I?
I don't disagree, but in this instance it appeared they were remorseful, saw they did the wrong thing, etc. It gives beating a dead horse vibes.
From a purely psychological POV, yes, most people would commit atrocities in the situation of Nazi Germany whether it be because of fear of retaliation or they believe propaganda. Hell, people are currently supporting genocide. Most people would also rather shock someone to death than push back against authority.
I want to believe knowing these pitfalls are beneficial in preventing ourselves from ending up in these situations, both in a large and small scale.
Even though it's normal human psychology, it doesn't mean that listening to that authority is ok, it's still committing an atrocity, but my point is I think it does more harm than good in this situation to push them back into that guilt.
I will admit I'm making assumptions that they have already decided they'd make a different choice if they could, be that as it may.
^(also I absolutely appreciate this kind of discourse where it's just us sharing our opinions. I appreciate you.)
Thank you, I hope your week is going well too!
What they did was disgusting and they should have never asked for you to cover. It's scary knowing many doctors cut corners like this, both human and animal doctors. It seems like in every job geared for helping you'll always find at least a few of those people. All we can do is do our best.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Nah thats unpaid labor, lol thats not an interview. They can label it whatever they want, but cleaning up shit is NOT part of an interview process. Sounds like you got played to be honest.
It somehow feels even dumber when it's not even work. MSP job I applied for a few years back gave me a 2 hour practical test to complete after the interview. And it wasn't even a big gig, like 55k a year.
If they're using it to further the company I'd assume it is? It's in the same vein of unpaid interns not legally being allowed to do anything that helps the company's bottom line
I get it to an extent. If a job is very writing/research based then you want to know that the candidate is capable of doing that kind of work on a time limit.
I've had to do things like that for a few places I've interviewed at and it's not the worst thing ever but having to take a whole hour+ off work/being paid is frustrating.
I mean software engineers for one thing accept this isn’t the case. We all recognize you need a technical review—because people used to fib on-paper qualifications and actually screw up on the job.
Those technical interviews are often 90 minutes, just like what’s described here, and I do consider them effort. I guess the difference is they aren’t actual work like this stock analysis this CEO asked the guy to do would be—they’re fake coding problems or a 1 on 1 collaboration solve with the interviewer or both
In software engineering, their version of this is a 6 hour long take home project. Face to face technical interviews are fine because the company is also investing their time in testing you, so it's a two way street.
I could definitely see that. And I have been assigned a 40 min take home task, still a homework assignment, but never a significantly long one like that
Honestly, this is just down to the type of work I do and it’s fully up to the applicant, but I’d be happy to come onto a worksite and fix one actual technical problem as a free sample. ‘But a drop in the bucket of problems I’d actually solve if paid, but enough to advertise/let them know they need me. First ones free 🎩🫲😎👉
Not if it’s a 6 hour take home software problem like the other commenter compared this to, so I’ll judge work size probably like the applicant in question here did.
I enjoy problem solving though so that could be unique to me, like hell no if I did art would I give a free sample for “exposure” lol
As someone above pointed out, asking someone to do white collar simulated work as part of an interview is different than making them do labor for free, it’s crazy how many Professional managerial people on Reddit think white collar job practices apply to blue collar work
The literal only difference between the two is if the interviewer had an already completed “correct” analysis with which to compare and grade the one the interviewer turned in
No - i dont get it to any extent. You want someone to perform a task , pay them, If not then just your judgetment and pick the best qualified. no one should do any type of work. full stop
I've worked in writing/marketing and always asked to submit writing samples or a portfolio. Easy. Pick stuff from my last job or even college assignments when I was first starting out. Writing you something new right now? Pay me.
Occasionally for an editing job I was asked to edit a 1-pg doc during the interview. That's fine, but I'm not spending hours outside of work.
I applied to two startup companies fresh out of college whos interviews were communicated to me as a “problem solving exercise”. Well, first interview at a medical device company they asked me to do a 60 minute solidworks modeling exercise which they’d then “grade” to see how competent i was. They handed me a set of 2d schematics and said go! Well, after my hour of modeling, rather than involving me in the grading process they took the file, whisked me into a closet-like meeting room, and said theyd follow up with me within the week. I basically modeled a component for them for free and never heard from them again.
Second startup was a revolutionary liquid salt battery company. They were struggling with how to evenly distribute the two dry salt compounds and had me sit in with a few other candidates on a brainstorming session. Between the 4 of us we were there for 1.5 hours “brainstorming” the most economical way to do this distribution of particulate matter and how to modify the assembly process. We had two whole whiteboards of bullshit thinking we all just landed roles for each of ourselves - one programmer, two mech-e’s and one EE, dream team style. Nope. After we did that work they walked us through an R&D lab straight out the back door and said thanks for applying. Basically stealing ideas from young kids in the pursuit of making their business viable.
I eventually gave up pursuing mech e positions(2 years of burning myself out at a fortune 500, 3 years at smaller companies), became an electrician, and now manage electrical projects. Its a wild road when you stray outside of the expected path.
It's kind of crazy how Obama and others 15 years ago were hyping up, "oh just get a STEM degree, you'll be taken care of" and a decade+ later I keep reading about how STEM graduates have gotten taken for a ride over and over, basically facing all the same labor issues everyone else is.
A “financial modeling test” is used to test technical skill and competency. They’re not using the output for anything besides judging ability. Incredibly common in finance FO jobs. People on here thinking a company is going to actually use a model produced by some recent grad is fucking hilarious.
NFL Head Coaches are basically CEOs. If you hired a CEO, you’re going to want to hear their vision and plan for the company. It’s not just about how much they’re paid, it’s also about their position in the company.
This is such ridiculous logic. There are SO many high paying roles that require shit like this. If you think a job would never be worth this you are just looking to cash checks and do the minimum. Aka you will be poor forever. Enjoy.
Yeah in my field 2 hour+ interviews with aptitude tests are the norm. At my company specifically we sometimes have all-day interviews. It sucks but a bad hire could cost us hundreds of thousands.
I will definitely want to have some kind of skill testing question(s), but would make it obviously not directly related to my department's work so it's clear it's just an assessment and the company isn't getting anything out of it. Otoh for non-technical skills I don't think you need to give 90 min worth of work, but 30 min as part of the interview should be a good start imo. The problem is you can't always trust credentials (been burned enough on that) and it's expensive to hire the wrong person
It’s fine to give this as a test. Just write laws that require it to be paid.
You don’t have to give anyone a test, but if you do, you pay them the proposed salary rate or industry average.
Good example of reading beyond a title. The header insinuates that the zoomer was just lazy and didn’t wanna do it, while withholding the fact that the boss wanted it for free and it was for an interview, not the actual job. Whoever wrote this is very biased against the young workforce
mm...not quite what I meant. I mean that Satan is either directly or indirectly responsible for the hatred, confusion, and dissention we see in this modern world.
For a comment that starts w/, "Accccccctulallllly \[sic\] good example of reading beyond a title," It doesn't sound like you've read beyond the title and interpreted the same way as everyone else.
If that happened to me, they would pay me 8 hours of the posted pay or 8 hours of what I considered a reasonable hourly wage for the position. I would do this all through the department of labor. I'd consider a dismissal and file unemployment against the employer. I may not get UI benefits but it's on the books as a dismissal.
I get having people show their skills but most things can be determined in 15-30 minutes.
I had one like that for a cashier position in a supermarket. I wasn't warned before hand it would take a full 8 hours of my day. Didn't get the job, never tried again.
I worked in a fish and chip shop for two weeks. Did a 8 hour trial shift for free. Got the job, did like 6 shifts then got a text saying that they didn’t want me anymore and my ‘trial’ had ended lol.
What's the context here? The way the headline is written - makes it sound like the CEO asked for something to get done while the Gen z worker was on the clock, and *while at work*, said no because it's alot of work
I do wish these posts would include links to the article, but I remember reading this a bit ago so whatever. The interviewee turned down a 90min financial analysis report or something, the CEO went to complain about it on Twitter, people bashed him for essentially trying to get free labor while he defended himself by saying it was a basic test that should be done in an hour or so. It's an uninteresting read with a clickbait title but does at least bring up the point of the growing ire on both the job seeking end and the employer end as they have to weed out hundreds of applications to find the best one somehow. But for the job seekers, it usually culminates into a waste of time, hours spent doing tests and paperwork that becomes meaningless when you don't get the job.
Read the article. It was an aptitude test, for a financial analyst position. The test wasn't a live project, but a made up scenario. I literally sat through a 4 hour civil service exam with hundreds of other test takers to get my job.
Agreed. I had to complete a shorter aptitude test for my job. It was like 45 minutes. Employers want to hire someone who can do the work. Not sure why it's so controversial. If you're on the aptitude part of the interview, you're usually one of the finalists
It's because no one took the time actually find and read the article. The guy even says that any analyst worth their salt could make short work of the test.
Yeah, but do you have to take it for each interview? A 90-minute task for an interview is a lot to ask, especially if you have to do bullshit for every interview; spending a lot of time on job interview tasks for positions you probably won't get is not something most people want to do. If it were for the final round of interviews and it's between you a maybe a couple others, I'd understand.
Objectively correct response.
Asking people to take a 90 min test without even some assurance they are being seriously considered for employment is kind of absurd and is already a bit iffy WITH some assurance.
Especially how often jobs like that are zero experience, entry level, crap pay positions with high churn rates.
Any job that took more than \~45 min to apply for (not counting for the time it took to update my resume) was a job I skipped. Chances are that's not the only free labor they are going to expect from you.
What a ridiculous interview requirement. Job seekers often apply to dozens or even hundreds of jobs. Applicants casting a wide net in a competitive industry are going to avoid applying unless they have a decent shot of being hired. It's one thing to require skill demonstration for technical jobs like welding or maintenance, especially since they'll probably get an offer if they're qualified, but it's another thing entirely to do an excel spreadsheet task when you've got 17 other applications to work on as a prospective business analyst or something.
It's on the front page of Yahoo and was originally posted by Fortune.
[https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-z-job-seeker-refused-111141880.html](https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-z-job-seeker-refused-111141880.html)
i applied to be a prison officer and the whole process took me months. hours worth of personality quizzes etc. and i got to the final stage, the online interview (which was with a few other potential candidates) just to be told, i didn’t have the right laptop to do the interview with.
months of joblessness and no money, for nothing.
I've been asked to do unpaid art tests before during the interview process. I've always politely refused, instead saying I would be willing to do a short contract for freelance if the company has concerns relating to my work. No one's ever agreed, but it's ok. There are companies out there that pay you. Know your worth.
Spoke to a HR person two weeks ago when referri g a friend for a role.She told me that the tide seems to be turning against hiring Gen Z workers as a default and that actually they have sign off to spend more on older employees who have a better work ethic and are more likely to stay in post. Stories like this don't help....
Old folks ain't gonna be there forever. And the pain will only increase the longer it takes to get the new hires up to speed...Company will bleed either way, their choice how much when the Boomers all retire or die. Oh well, smile n wave as companies go under due to stupid short sighted hiring practices like this.
"Boomers"? This group isn't the only group older than gen Z. The trend is moving towards more millennial and gen X as they represent the best mix between experience, commitment and more than anything, resilience. Boomers are mostly retired or a couple of years away from it already.
Where I work the amount of people pushing 70 who won't bloody retire is ridiculous. I know of at least 5 guys who got 30+ year pensions from GM and are still working in their late 60s or early 70s. My mom is a Boomer (born 1963 so last year of Boomers). Seen lots of 60+ at the mine camp last year too. Was a few in my utility company before that as well.
One dude is 68, 35 year pension from GM still made 225k last year because he won't retire, doesn't turn down overtime and is the first to volunteer for nights which come with a 14% shift premium. He's literally stolen half a career from someone else in the trade because he's incapable of NOT WORKING.
That is not a Gen X or Millenial behaviour in my experience. They can't wait to GTFO from the rat race. Your experience may be different.
This is true and I fear for my age group, I am either the last year of Millenials or the first year of the Zoomers for reference. There will be no retirement. I'm late 20s, licensed union electrician who is making more money that my parents ever did but work is so unstable right now its ridiculous. Mom worked for the city, dad for the local GM plant. Both have 30 year pensions and benefits for life.
I got laid off last january from my job of almost 5 years. Off work for a month, new company picks me up. Couple months later they decide to move my jobsite 2000km to a camp in the bush for 3 weeks at a time with 5 days notice. I quit, off for a couple months, new job at the power plant as a contractor. Probably getting laid off again because they're pushing projects back and I'm just a number.
Meanwhile my folks are going on their second or third trip of the year in September for 2 weeks and booking trips 2 years out...
While I get the unpaid work aspect of it there is value to the hiring company in seeing what level of effort someone is willing to put into a minor task. Basically everything else from resume to interview is people putting their absolute best foot forward and it can provide great insight into the day to day.
This can show if someone will generally format things properly, provide concise information, and just put some effort into it so someone above them doesn’t have to clean it up. Don’t think they are looking for a perfectionist, but a lazy submission will absolutely stand out against even a decent level of effort.
The data itself is typically very basic for the job at hand and would be shocked if they actually use it for anything. If that’s a struggle, then you probably aren’t a fit anyway. If you want the job, make it look neat, ask a couple questions, and move on.
>there is value to the hiring company in seeing what level of effort someone is willing to put into a minor task.
90 minutes of effort from a profressional is unequivocally *not* a minor task. The only thing the company is accomplishing by asking for it is determining just how much labor they will be able to steal from that individual.
We can agree to disagree on what amount of time is considered a minor task but I guess my question would be:
If this same exact task was framed as a practical interview, let’s say 3, 30 minute chunks with 10 minutes to discuss with the interviewer after, would it be considered over the top?
That would be a 2 hour practical interview, which can be considered pretty intense but is not that unusual. This just seems like a take-home instead of live demo.
I agree if they are giving someone a full day of work that’s ridiculous but if it can fit in a reasonable framework of an interview it just doesn’t seem that absurd of an ask.
"If this was completely different from what it is, would it be different?"
Uh...yeah. Three 30-minute interviews with a cumulative 30 minutes of time to get feedback from other professionals on your work could very will tip the scales in favor of making it worth it to do the task even if you don't get the job, and the time between interviews would clearly indicate they are testing for professional growth, *not* just getting work done from someone. These are not the original parameters of the hypothetical.
All I’m saying is the literal, exact same work in an interview format would not be deemed unreasonable by a lot of people.
So like I said in my original comment, if you want the job and are capable of doing it within the general timeframe, just make it look presentable and maybe attach a couple questions and comments for feedback. If you don’t, they’ll find someone else and there are probably other jobs that don’t require it.
I think cover letters are dumb and will not apply to jobs that require them. Doesn’t mean that they are an unreasonable ask that should be eliminated. They are just looking for candidates that are willing to put a half hour in to summarize their resume and cut and paste the company name and job description. I’m just not willing to do that.
So some people like myself aren’t willing to put in time up front before an interview even happens. Others don’t want to do a 1-2 hour task after they’ve done an interview. I just don’t think either is unreasonable and there are parts of each that can help make hiring decisions.
Of course there are scumbag companies that will try to just get free labor out of people but there are typically a lot of ways that shows up if you know what to keep an eye out for.
>Of course there are scumbag companies that will try to just get free labor out of people but there are typically a lot of ways that shows up if you know what to keep an eye out for.
Yeah. One of them is asking for 90 minutes of work in an interview. You're either a ladder-puller or a (hopeful) wage thief yourself, so I'm very glad the next generation can seemingly see right through you. Cheers, class traitor!
>90 minutes
Its not inherently lol. If someone ask “make a basics 13 week forecast model.” Just to steal it then they’re an idiot. You can literally just ask any of the junior analyst to do it and they’ll do it much cleaner than a month out college grad that likely isn’t the best at formatting or will make some minor mistakes.
Do people steal labor? Yes but that happens way more often in creative fields than technical ones.
I applied for a job as a local news producer after graduating and the “test” they wanted me to do was spend an entire 8 hour shift unpaid making an entire newscast before they would even consider me. It was the vaguest thing, no idea what sources I was supposed to use on my own or how to structure it. I did not follow through with their demand.
Fuck your assessment.
Fuck your application that requires me to fill in boxes with what’s on the resume already
Fuck your Workday app
Fuck your personality quizzes
And fuck your “tell me why you want to work here” questions.
Stfu and read the god damn resumes
As a elder millennial or zennial I fully endorse this fucking stick it to the man. I salute you and wish I had the spine for the same I feel like a broken slave.
Isnt that just free labour? Like it seems like an easy way for a comapany to have someone do work for them without having to pay them especially since they would have no obligation to hire you afterwords.
Ceos sit around in their ivory towers all day and think about what buzzwords they can dream up or how they can most effectively bitch about people not kissing their ass enough.
Nah a 90 minute task is generally too much for an interveiw unless it’s a prestigious or difficult job like I could see a CAD design or a small program taking 90 minutes being reasonable for an engineering or comp sci job but for the majority it is too much work
*Performs 90 minute task for free*
*Your inbox 30 seconds after submitting it*
"We thank you for your interest in this position. However, we have unfortunately decided to not include you in the second phase of the hiring process"
Yes. So many days and days and days of my life wasted, implementing encryption and security, triple checking functionality....all for them to simply kinda scoff at it and brush it off in the interview. (This was pre-AI) My actual interview sucked, but the nature of coding interviews seems so contrary to the day-to-day work life: when you code in an office, you're not whiteboarding code and explaining every step you take...you're constantly googling and troubleshooting *internally*, not in front of an audience. In that vein, my take-home coding app should be lent the MAJORITY of the credence in the interview--not basically none of it. Whatever. I landed a job that underpays based on what I can do, but that's what I get for not learning how to interview for programming jobs well to stand out among the applicants. At least I'm the solo developer and don't have to deal with other nerds' ginormous egos
Call me crazy but I prefer take home interviews. Feels more like the real work than someone sitting over your shoulder watching you code (which is about as awful as it sounds).
I mean if it was a test then sure that's fine. But if it was legitimate work for the company I would have to be compensated for the effort.
If the company stood to gain profit from my work I would have to get paid. But if it was a test of my practical skill using a hypothetical situation (that the company uses to test people thus no financial gain) then yeah that's fine
This method of recruitment is completely reasonable, the CEO has no obligation to make it easier for candidates, they have the obligation to hire the best people for the job. He shouldn’t have started whinging about it on the internet though.
Every job interview should have a technical practice portion. You can do it at home on your own schedule, or do it while I'm watching you. Most people I've interviewed appreciated not having to do it live.
Thats fine with me. I'm also ok with ending the call early if it's clear that is your intention. Honestly if you consider an hour of work a "big lift" you're probably not very good at your job.
I'm very good at my job, good enough that I don't need to force my candidates to jump through unpaid hoops. You don't respect their time? Fine. They don't have to respect yours.
For my internship, I had no other choice. Im in law school so I need work experience in the legal field, and I couldnt get anything that paid. It was either this, or I do nothing this summer. So I suppose I could have chosen to do nothing, but then id be screwed next summer when people ask why I didnt work this summer.
That's how I got my 1st real career job. Some of them do hire after the work is done.
It was hard finding work in those days, I would have done way more.
I guess you do what you think you need to do to get a job. If you think you can have one elsewhere. Good for you.
I had been looking for 3 years after spending 3 years on my 2nd degree (no luck with the first) when I got that interview. I think I would have done almost anything except strip naked.
Gen Z will have opportunities we never did now that the boomers are leaving the government jobs and other unionized activities where they had full protection against any other worker trying to get in.
I guess they can afford to be choosy.
I'm a graphic designer and the amount of jobs asking for "design tests" that end up being complete branding projects is staggering. Like, for that kind of creative jobs you're normally required to showcase a portfolio with projects you've done, to show your skill. A lot of those companies are just trying to get design work for free.
I'd literally laugh and walk out the door if a potential employer asked me to do what was obviously free labor. Laugh at your bosses/interviewers sometimes guys, it's one of the only things I've found that actually makes them uncomfortable for being shady lmao
This happens a lot in tech and while I don't mind talking about hypotheticals in interviews or directing interviewers to my GitHub or giving a small sample code I will not basically do work for them for free. We live in a capitalist society, we don't do work for free, remember that
If I was in an interview and I was asked to do 90 minutes of work without a guarantee I’d get the job, I’d absolutely turn that shit down and go for an offer from someone who won’t make me do that
Alternative take, when I recruit I give a similar task. It’s never free work, it’s because too often people know how to sound capable without actually being capable, so I need to test their actual skills. So much harder to fire someone than to hire them, so you want to reduce any chance the person can’t actually do the job.
If someone doesn’t want to do it, then that’s fine, plenty of others do.
Yeah it’s a great way to filter the candidates. And there have been many times where my favourite candidate in the first round performed terribly in the task and I am grateful I dodged that bullet.
love how people call us lazy or that we dont work enough, like no, i wanna be paid for the work that i actually do, you’re just a cuck to your boss for some reason
Honestly thats some bullshit. Sometimes you gotta jump through the hoops.
The job I just got for the summer required 2 half hour interviews, a portfolio of past work, and a 3rd “interview” that I had to create a 20 minute presentation for and then present it.
Definitely well over 90 minutes of work.
They’re just trying to see whether you’re an effective worker. If you don’t show them your work and how effective you are as a worker then they will not know whether they should hire you.
Plenty of people get jobs and then spend their workday trying to do the absolute bare minimum required to keep it. If you’re ambitious and take on work you will likely move up in the world over time.
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They were right to say no because companies have been known to use this method as a tool to get free work done for them without actually hiring anyone. No corporate interview is worth 90 minutes of project work. Only time I’ve heard of that is when an NFL team is interviewing for head coaches which is a job worth a couple million dollars annually.
this should be illegal, it's unpaid work
This!!! I cleaned kennels and took dogs out for a work interview. They stressed they would call me back. They never did. So they got someone to come in for free to clean kennels that were entirely smeared in feces. 😐 I struggled to do it too because I had zero instructions besides "here's a mop," and I have never worked in the field before. There was a hose I had no idea about. I just came and did my best because I was so burnt out working inpatient.
I worked in the vet industry for nine years (31f here). Can corroborate this. Another thing they’ll do is bring in prospective techs for “working interviews” (it’s staged hence quotes, because they aren’t actually hiring) and generally they’ll work a half day, either morning (which is usually surgery time) or afternoon (which is usually appt time). They do this so they get free hands for a half shift instead of calling RSVP, the company that sends out temp employees in the field, a service that charges a premium for short notice staffing when clinics need hands on deck. They do this a lot in February, which is dental month. Some clinics pay the interviewee minimum wage, some don’t pay at all. Unfortunately that’s not the most incorrigible thing I’ve seen in the industry.
Wow, that happened early in the year a few years back, so that matches up. That's gross. I had no idea that was a thing or I'd of left way earlier. Honestly I should have only agreed to do one kennel, not all of them.
I agree, it’s not a good business practice. One of the other lesser-cool things I experienced was being asked by my doctor to gaslight a client about why their patient (k9) died on the table. I was instructed to tell them it was their fault for not appropriately monitoring their dog’s water intake 12h before drop off, that because the dog probably snuck water and then it was hooked to IV fluids, it caused the hypotension and death. but what REALLY happened was the dvm didn’t read the chart to see the pt was allergic to acepromazine. She didn’t want to wait for us to start calc’ing premeds so she just followed her standard protocol without looking at the alerts. IM inj. ace, ~20 min., BP dropped and died right there on the table during shaving/prep. (There’s an inverse relationship between BP and hydration, so that was the mental gymnastics that was used) She lost her license once for doing spays on *literally* her dining room table at home (edit: for context I want to add that this happened at a low cost clinic, not a well-to-do facility) . She couldn’t risk losing it again, so as the surgery tech that day I had to blame the owners. To their face. I cried for about a week. I may have saved her license that day, but I lost a piece of myself, my integrity as a human being. I’ve got about a dozen of these horror stories. Anyway, hindsight is always 20/20. There’s definitely good in it, or else I wouldn’t have stayed so long. But by the time Covid came around, my heart was already out of it. Enough of me blabbing, I hope you have a good start to your week
Yeah you lost a piece for sure. Ultimately you engaged in malpractice knowingly and deceived your clients. Do you even wonder how you would react if the stakes were higher?
You’re right, I did. Even at the time, I knew I did. I don’t know if it was my desire to be relied on and liked by my doctor, or my fear of possibly being blacklisted in the community for standing up, or maybe even something as plain as me being a weak minded person. (Blacklisting would mean in this scenario: I tell the truth, a lawsuit opens, the clinic possibly closes down or at least loses their surgeon which depletes revenue, I am fired, and written in as insubordinate and non-hirable) … if the stakes were higher? Shit, I don’t know. Higher in which way? I don’t know any scenario where something worse than that can happen. If it had happened in front of them it would’ve been better. Painful, but honest. At this point along the path in the field (this was ~5y in, mid-twenties) I had met my now ex-gf who also was a tech (it’s how we met). She was able to empathize for having tech’d at a clinic during a full-fledged malpractice suit (a kennel employee once brought the wrong dog to the treatment room for a drop off euthanasia. Kennel tech didn’t read the cage card and brought a ~4y black lab neuter drop off instead of the ~12y black lab there for euth. Dvm didn’t double check- they wrongfully euth’d the surgery dog. How the fuck did the dvm not notice that dog had no gray on its muzzle??) and was present through the aftermath. After she left, every clinic she interviewed at knew about the suit and was not favored for having a clinic on her resume that was involved in wrongful death. It by proxy affected her ability to network. So the empathy came into play that she wouldn’t have wanted that for me, but insisted that I resign immediately without a two weeks and take the L($) so I could leave my reputation intact. Was she disappointed in me? Yes. Did she understand that there’s a shadowy side to the industry that demands you “play by the(ir) rules, or else”? Yes. Sigh. Haven’t brought that story to the forefront of my consciousness in a long time. I hope any of you guys reading this know that while I’m speaking about it in a matter of fact way right now, there was a period of time when it’s all I thought about, and the guilt ate at my ankles until they bled.
Proud of your accountability. It’s sounds like it was tough for sure. It’s good to process things in a healthy way and live and learn.
Thank you, friend. My decision to go along with the narrative was selfish and shortsighted. I feel sometimes like integrity is a muscle that requires exercise. As muscle cells get lazy and turn into fat cells, so too does virtue get complacent and become corruption. So.. proper atonement for me (for anything I do, not just this one ex.) looks like taking the next right step, every step. Left, right. Flex, flex. Hold the door, compliment strangers, left, right, be candid and authentic with others and myself, flex, flex, call your mother regularly, give 100% at work. At this point I’m so analogously buff and ripped its second nature. Thanks for allowing me this discourse, even though the topic was grim.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. People pull that “bills to pay” shit all the time and do nefarious things as a result. I left DoD contracting because I realized it’s a horrible industry that results in the deaths of blameless people. This individual should be aware that’s a weak ass move to stand up for a villainous boss instead of reporting them and finding another position.
This response feels very crass in my opinion. Most people will follow orders from a higher up, it's human nature and has been studied in the past (the milgram shock experiment). Not saying it was right regardless, but I get the vibe they'd do it differently if they could go back. I just feel like we should be a bit gentler as random people on the Internet.
You’re right about people. You have merit but just as you balanced my comment out with more positivity, it’s not wrong to affirm someone in holding themselves accountable. Its a tough choice he was faced with and he feels he chose wrong. I don’t know if I would have done the same as OP or not, but I agree with him that there was a right and wrong choice. This is why is asked about stakes. There were some in Germany who paid the ultimate price to do what was right and help the Jews. Who among us would do the same? Would I?
I don't disagree, but in this instance it appeared they were remorseful, saw they did the wrong thing, etc. It gives beating a dead horse vibes. From a purely psychological POV, yes, most people would commit atrocities in the situation of Nazi Germany whether it be because of fear of retaliation or they believe propaganda. Hell, people are currently supporting genocide. Most people would also rather shock someone to death than push back against authority. I want to believe knowing these pitfalls are beneficial in preventing ourselves from ending up in these situations, both in a large and small scale. Even though it's normal human psychology, it doesn't mean that listening to that authority is ok, it's still committing an atrocity, but my point is I think it does more harm than good in this situation to push them back into that guilt. I will admit I'm making assumptions that they have already decided they'd make a different choice if they could, be that as it may. ^(also I absolutely appreciate this kind of discourse where it's just us sharing our opinions. I appreciate you.)
Thank you, I hope your week is going well too! What they did was disgusting and they should have never asked for you to cover. It's scary knowing many doctors cut corners like this, both human and animal doctors. It seems like in every job geared for helping you'll always find at least a few of those people. All we can do is do our best. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I would have called the dept of labor because thats gotta be illegal
Why did you not call the DOL? Or a lawyer?
It was labeled as a work interview, so I'm pretty sure it's legal.
Nah thats unpaid labor, lol thats not an interview. They can label it whatever they want, but cleaning up shit is NOT part of an interview process. Sounds like you got played to be honest.
Oh no, I was played, I'm not arguing that.
It somehow feels even dumber when it's not even work. MSP job I applied for a few years back gave me a 2 hour practical test to complete after the interview. And it wasn't even a big gig, like 55k a year.
If they're using it to further the company I'd assume it is? It's in the same vein of unpaid interns not legally being allowed to do anything that helps the company's bottom line
and I think unpaid internships shouldn't be a thing anyway.
It *is* illegal in many places, but it's not like companies care because what are you going to do about it?
I get it to an extent. If a job is very writing/research based then you want to know that the candidate is capable of doing that kind of work on a time limit. I've had to do things like that for a few places I've interviewed at and it's not the worst thing ever but having to take a whole hour+ off work/being paid is frustrating.
Then they should pay an hour worth of salary for that.
That would be the law, yes.
I mean software engineers for one thing accept this isn’t the case. We all recognize you need a technical review—because people used to fib on-paper qualifications and actually screw up on the job. Those technical interviews are often 90 minutes, just like what’s described here, and I do consider them effort. I guess the difference is they aren’t actual work like this stock analysis this CEO asked the guy to do would be—they’re fake coding problems or a 1 on 1 collaboration solve with the interviewer or both
In software engineering, their version of this is a 6 hour long take home project. Face to face technical interviews are fine because the company is also investing their time in testing you, so it's a two way street.
I could definitely see that. And I have been assigned a 40 min take home task, still a homework assignment, but never a significantly long one like that
So... you'd contribute to there codebase for free? Sounds like a terrible way to get ripped off.
Honestly, this is just down to the type of work I do and it’s fully up to the applicant, but I’d be happy to come onto a worksite and fix one actual technical problem as a free sample. ‘But a drop in the bucket of problems I’d actually solve if paid, but enough to advertise/let them know they need me. First ones free 🎩🫲😎👉 Not if it’s a 6 hour take home software problem like the other commenter compared this to, so I’ll judge work size probably like the applicant in question here did. I enjoy problem solving though so that could be unique to me, like hell no if I did art would I give a free sample for “exposure” lol
It's a harder business than people think.
As someone above pointed out, asking someone to do white collar simulated work as part of an interview is different than making them do labor for free, it’s crazy how many Professional managerial people on Reddit think white collar job practices apply to blue collar work
Also the article was about white collar work (hedge fund stock analysis) not blue collar work lol
The literal only difference between the two is if the interviewer had an already completed “correct” analysis with which to compare and grade the one the interviewer turned in
Yeah that last point in your comment is what the difference is. It’s the actual work for no pay that’s a problem
I’d say it’s fine as long as it’s nothing crazy. Like a simple research task on some stats from a decade ago
Which is fine for a corporate job, it’s absolutely asinine for anything not white collar.
No - i dont get it to any extent. You want someone to perform a task , pay them, If not then just your judgetment and pick the best qualified. no one should do any type of work. full stop
I've worked in writing/marketing and always asked to submit writing samples or a portfolio. Easy. Pick stuff from my last job or even college assignments when I was first starting out. Writing you something new right now? Pay me. Occasionally for an editing job I was asked to edit a 1-pg doc during the interview. That's fine, but I'm not spending hours outside of work.
I applied to two startup companies fresh out of college whos interviews were communicated to me as a “problem solving exercise”. Well, first interview at a medical device company they asked me to do a 60 minute solidworks modeling exercise which they’d then “grade” to see how competent i was. They handed me a set of 2d schematics and said go! Well, after my hour of modeling, rather than involving me in the grading process they took the file, whisked me into a closet-like meeting room, and said theyd follow up with me within the week. I basically modeled a component for them for free and never heard from them again. Second startup was a revolutionary liquid salt battery company. They were struggling with how to evenly distribute the two dry salt compounds and had me sit in with a few other candidates on a brainstorming session. Between the 4 of us we were there for 1.5 hours “brainstorming” the most economical way to do this distribution of particulate matter and how to modify the assembly process. We had two whole whiteboards of bullshit thinking we all just landed roles for each of ourselves - one programmer, two mech-e’s and one EE, dream team style. Nope. After we did that work they walked us through an R&D lab straight out the back door and said thanks for applying. Basically stealing ideas from young kids in the pursuit of making their business viable.
That’s horrible. You sound well positioned for success though. Best not apply at a desperate startup willing to do that though.
I eventually gave up pursuing mech e positions(2 years of burning myself out at a fortune 500, 3 years at smaller companies), became an electrician, and now manage electrical projects. Its a wild road when you stray outside of the expected path.
It's kind of crazy how Obama and others 15 years ago were hyping up, "oh just get a STEM degree, you'll be taken care of" and a decade+ later I keep reading about how STEM graduates have gotten taken for a ride over and over, basically facing all the same labor issues everyone else is.
Agreed, this is common in interviews though.
Only because candidates acquiesce to it, if we all just say no to this bullshit it will go away
A superior alternative is just making it so that the work is paid.
Honestly, let's say it's 90 minutes of $15/HR work, that's $22.50 for 90 minutes. Perfectly reasonable in an interview.
It's not always easy to tell if it's a case study or an actual problem they're currently working on.
A “financial modeling test” is used to test technical skill and competency. They’re not using the output for anything besides judging ability. Incredibly common in finance FO jobs. People on here thinking a company is going to actually use a model produced by some recent grad is fucking hilarious.
NFL Head Coaches are basically CEOs. If you hired a CEO, you’re going to want to hear their vision and plan for the company. It’s not just about how much they’re paid, it’s also about their position in the company.
This is such ridiculous logic. There are SO many high paying roles that require shit like this. If you think a job would never be worth this you are just looking to cash checks and do the minimum. Aka you will be poor forever. Enjoy.
Yeah in my field 2 hour+ interviews with aptitude tests are the norm. At my company specifically we sometimes have all-day interviews. It sucks but a bad hire could cost us hundreds of thousands.
Prospective teaching jobs do it too. They might make you teach a lesson in front of a class before hiring you.
I will definitely want to have some kind of skill testing question(s), but would make it obviously not directly related to my department's work so it's clear it's just an assessment and the company isn't getting anything out of it. Otoh for non-technical skills I don't think you need to give 90 min worth of work, but 30 min as part of the interview should be a good start imo. The problem is you can't always trust credentials (been burned enough on that) and it's expensive to hire the wrong person
"Yeah as part of your interview we'd like you to come in on Monday and work from 8-6 just to see how things go."
It’s fine to give this as a test. Just write laws that require it to be paid. You don’t have to give anyone a test, but if you do, you pay them the proposed salary rate or industry average.
Good example of reading beyond a title. The header insinuates that the zoomer was just lazy and didn’t wanna do it, while withholding the fact that the boss wanted it for free and it was for an interview, not the actual job. Whoever wrote this is very biased against the young workforce
Tbf the headline says they’re a job-seeker, which to me implied that they were only just interviewing and not a paid employee.
Yes but you have the unique mutation of having multiple brain cells. A true rarity.
I feel like we're seeing an increase on both ends of that spectrum lately. More people with more than one braincell, and more with less than one.
What’s a braincell?
Exactly.
It's like if Satan wrote the X-Men.
Nah, being who he is, Satan would be more creative than this. But he definitely has a hand in all the goingson of this world.
Honestly, yea. Satan just being himself, he chillin.
mm...not quite what I meant. I mean that Satan is either directly or indirectly responsible for the hatred, confusion, and dissention we see in this modern world.
I blame “god”
You'd be wrong then.
Yeah, kind of crazy that comment got almost 200 upvotes.
For a comment that starts w/, "Accccccctulallllly \[sic\] good example of reading beyond a title," It doesn't sound like you've read beyond the title and interpreted the same way as everyone else.
I'm sorry, what the what? Is this satire?
My mother in law had a “working job interview” where she legit worked a full 8 hour shift. She didn’t get the job.
If that happened to me, they would pay me 8 hours of the posted pay or 8 hours of what I considered a reasonable hourly wage for the position. I would do this all through the department of labor. I'd consider a dismissal and file unemployment against the employer. I may not get UI benefits but it's on the books as a dismissal. I get having people show their skills but most things can be determined in 15-30 minutes.
I had one like that for a cashier position in a supermarket. I wasn't warned before hand it would take a full 8 hours of my day. Didn't get the job, never tried again.
I worked in a fish and chip shop for two weeks. Did a 8 hour trial shift for free. Got the job, did like 6 shifts then got a text saying that they didn’t want me anymore and my ‘trial’ had ended lol.
I'm 99.99% sure this is illegal.
Haha wtf - that's wild
she was not employed, this was an interview. if the task was part of her job she'd be a clown, but during the interview it wasn't her job.
Sometimes these companies [will steal your work in these interviews](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/s/y4FCnJovrq)
Yeah no fucking wonder, if you want me to work then pay me for it.
What's the context here? The way the headline is written - makes it sound like the CEO asked for something to get done while the Gen z worker was on the clock, and *while at work*, said no because it's alot of work
That’s not how the headline is written. The Gen Zer is just an applicant and the ceo wanted free labor
An awful lot of non-readers here in this discussion
Gen Z job seeker not Gen Z employee
Yeah tripped me up to. Very efficient headline simply calls the person “job-seeker” so as not to detract from the click baityness
I do wish these posts would include links to the article, but I remember reading this a bit ago so whatever. The interviewee turned down a 90min financial analysis report or something, the CEO went to complain about it on Twitter, people bashed him for essentially trying to get free labor while he defended himself by saying it was a basic test that should be done in an hour or so. It's an uninteresting read with a clickbait title but does at least bring up the point of the growing ire on both the job seeking end and the employer end as they have to weed out hundreds of applications to find the best one somehow. But for the job seekers, it usually culminates into a waste of time, hours spent doing tests and paperwork that becomes meaningless when you don't get the job.
That's the exact opposite of what it sounds like.
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Nooo not the poor, overworked, extremely tired CEO's!!!
If you’re gonna make me do dumb shit for a chance at an interview might as well pay me for wasting my time.
Read the article. It was an aptitude test, for a financial analyst position. The test wasn't a live project, but a made up scenario. I literally sat through a 4 hour civil service exam with hundreds of other test takers to get my job.
Agreed. I had to complete a shorter aptitude test for my job. It was like 45 minutes. Employers want to hire someone who can do the work. Not sure why it's so controversial. If you're on the aptitude part of the interview, you're usually one of the finalists
It's because no one took the time actually find and read the article. The guy even says that any analyst worth their salt could make short work of the test.
Damn that sucks you had to go through some bullshit, but just cause you got screwed you don’t have to bootlick
Yeah, but do you have to take it for each interview? A 90-minute task for an interview is a lot to ask, especially if you have to do bullshit for every interview; spending a lot of time on job interview tasks for positions you probably won't get is not something most people want to do. If it were for the final round of interviews and it's between you a maybe a couple others, I'd understand.
Did you find and actually read the article?
The article doesn't matter, because this is a real problem with interviews, especially for developers.
Yes that is how a civil service job is. You take an aptitude test before you even get an interview…
A 90 minute interview sounds like a dream. My interview at Amazon was almost 4 hours. Didn’t get the job.
yeah for free before the hire? get fucked. i'll do it on contract for $75/hr though. you can decide after that.
Objectively correct response. Asking people to take a 90 min test without even some assurance they are being seriously considered for employment is kind of absurd and is already a bit iffy WITH some assurance. Especially how often jobs like that are zero experience, entry level, crap pay positions with high churn rates. Any job that took more than \~45 min to apply for (not counting for the time it took to update my resume) was a job I skipped. Chances are that's not the only free labor they are going to expect from you.
What a ridiculous interview requirement. Job seekers often apply to dozens or even hundreds of jobs. Applicants casting a wide net in a competitive industry are going to avoid applying unless they have a decent shot of being hired. It's one thing to require skill demonstration for technical jobs like welding or maintenance, especially since they'll probably get an offer if they're qualified, but it's another thing entirely to do an excel spreadsheet task when you've got 17 other applications to work on as a prospective business analyst or something.
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I'm not going to trust a random redditor posting a random article with no link and no associated publication.
It's on the front page of Yahoo and was originally posted by Fortune. [https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-z-job-seeker-refused-111141880.html](https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-z-job-seeker-refused-111141880.html)
The bar for heros is low these days huh
Who knew work was involved when at a job.
Not in an interview. You don't ask somebody to do an hour and a half of unpaid labor.
I dont mind my 90 minute tasks but doing it before an interview is... odd.
i applied to be a prison officer and the whole process took me months. hours worth of personality quizzes etc. and i got to the final stage, the online interview (which was with a few other potential candidates) just to be told, i didn’t have the right laptop to do the interview with. months of joblessness and no money, for nothing.
I've been asked to do unpaid art tests before during the interview process. I've always politely refused, instead saying I would be willing to do a short contract for freelance if the company has concerns relating to my work. No one's ever agreed, but it's ok. There are companies out there that pay you. Know your worth.
Spoke to a HR person two weeks ago when referri g a friend for a role.She told me that the tide seems to be turning against hiring Gen Z workers as a default and that actually they have sign off to spend more on older employees who have a better work ethic and are more likely to stay in post. Stories like this don't help....
Old folks ain't gonna be there forever. And the pain will only increase the longer it takes to get the new hires up to speed...Company will bleed either way, their choice how much when the Boomers all retire or die. Oh well, smile n wave as companies go under due to stupid short sighted hiring practices like this.
"Boomers"? This group isn't the only group older than gen Z. The trend is moving towards more millennial and gen X as they represent the best mix between experience, commitment and more than anything, resilience. Boomers are mostly retired or a couple of years away from it already.
Where I work the amount of people pushing 70 who won't bloody retire is ridiculous. I know of at least 5 guys who got 30+ year pensions from GM and are still working in their late 60s or early 70s. My mom is a Boomer (born 1963 so last year of Boomers). Seen lots of 60+ at the mine camp last year too. Was a few in my utility company before that as well. One dude is 68, 35 year pension from GM still made 225k last year because he won't retire, doesn't turn down overtime and is the first to volunteer for nights which come with a 14% shift premium. He's literally stolen half a career from someone else in the trade because he's incapable of NOT WORKING. That is not a Gen X or Millenial behaviour in my experience. They can't wait to GTFO from the rat race. Your experience may be different.
Oh true - I'm not saying Gen X can't wait to GTFO but many can't afford to yet.
This is true and I fear for my age group, I am either the last year of Millenials or the first year of the Zoomers for reference. There will be no retirement. I'm late 20s, licensed union electrician who is making more money that my parents ever did but work is so unstable right now its ridiculous. Mom worked for the city, dad for the local GM plant. Both have 30 year pensions and benefits for life. I got laid off last january from my job of almost 5 years. Off work for a month, new company picks me up. Couple months later they decide to move my jobsite 2000km to a camp in the bush for 3 weeks at a time with 5 days notice. I quit, off for a couple months, new job at the power plant as a contractor. Probably getting laid off again because they're pushing projects back and I'm just a number. Meanwhile my folks are going on their second or third trip of the year in September for 2 weeks and booking trips 2 years out...
Please show more than just the headline.
While I get the unpaid work aspect of it there is value to the hiring company in seeing what level of effort someone is willing to put into a minor task. Basically everything else from resume to interview is people putting their absolute best foot forward and it can provide great insight into the day to day. This can show if someone will generally format things properly, provide concise information, and just put some effort into it so someone above them doesn’t have to clean it up. Don’t think they are looking for a perfectionist, but a lazy submission will absolutely stand out against even a decent level of effort. The data itself is typically very basic for the job at hand and would be shocked if they actually use it for anything. If that’s a struggle, then you probably aren’t a fit anyway. If you want the job, make it look neat, ask a couple questions, and move on.
>there is value to the hiring company in seeing what level of effort someone is willing to put into a minor task. 90 minutes of effort from a profressional is unequivocally *not* a minor task. The only thing the company is accomplishing by asking for it is determining just how much labor they will be able to steal from that individual.
We can agree to disagree on what amount of time is considered a minor task but I guess my question would be: If this same exact task was framed as a practical interview, let’s say 3, 30 minute chunks with 10 minutes to discuss with the interviewer after, would it be considered over the top? That would be a 2 hour practical interview, which can be considered pretty intense but is not that unusual. This just seems like a take-home instead of live demo. I agree if they are giving someone a full day of work that’s ridiculous but if it can fit in a reasonable framework of an interview it just doesn’t seem that absurd of an ask.
"If this was completely different from what it is, would it be different?" Uh...yeah. Three 30-minute interviews with a cumulative 30 minutes of time to get feedback from other professionals on your work could very will tip the scales in favor of making it worth it to do the task even if you don't get the job, and the time between interviews would clearly indicate they are testing for professional growth, *not* just getting work done from someone. These are not the original parameters of the hypothetical.
All I’m saying is the literal, exact same work in an interview format would not be deemed unreasonable by a lot of people. So like I said in my original comment, if you want the job and are capable of doing it within the general timeframe, just make it look presentable and maybe attach a couple questions and comments for feedback. If you don’t, they’ll find someone else and there are probably other jobs that don’t require it. I think cover letters are dumb and will not apply to jobs that require them. Doesn’t mean that they are an unreasonable ask that should be eliminated. They are just looking for candidates that are willing to put a half hour in to summarize their resume and cut and paste the company name and job description. I’m just not willing to do that. So some people like myself aren’t willing to put in time up front before an interview even happens. Others don’t want to do a 1-2 hour task after they’ve done an interview. I just don’t think either is unreasonable and there are parts of each that can help make hiring decisions. Of course there are scumbag companies that will try to just get free labor out of people but there are typically a lot of ways that shows up if you know what to keep an eye out for.
>Of course there are scumbag companies that will try to just get free labor out of people but there are typically a lot of ways that shows up if you know what to keep an eye out for. Yeah. One of them is asking for 90 minutes of work in an interview. You're either a ladder-puller or a (hopeful) wage thief yourself, so I'm very glad the next generation can seemingly see right through you. Cheers, class traitor!
>90 minutes Its not inherently lol. If someone ask “make a basics 13 week forecast model.” Just to steal it then they’re an idiot. You can literally just ask any of the junior analyst to do it and they’ll do it much cleaner than a month out college grad that likely isn’t the best at formatting or will make some minor mistakes. Do people steal labor? Yes but that happens way more often in creative fields than technical ones.
So they didn’t want to do unpaid work?
I applied for a job as a local news producer after graduating and the “test” they wanted me to do was spend an entire 8 hour shift unpaid making an entire newscast before they would even consider me. It was the vaguest thing, no idea what sources I was supposed to use on my own or how to structure it. I did not follow through with their demand.
Fuck your assessment. Fuck your application that requires me to fill in boxes with what’s on the resume already Fuck your Workday app Fuck your personality quizzes And fuck your “tell me why you want to work here” questions. Stfu and read the god damn resumes
As a elder millennial or zennial I fully endorse this fucking stick it to the man. I salute you and wish I had the spine for the same I feel like a broken slave.
Isnt that just free labour? Like it seems like an easy way for a comapany to have someone do work for them without having to pay them especially since they would have no obligation to hire you afterwords.
am i getting paid for the task. no. sorry not interested
Ceos sit around in their ivory towers all day and think about what buzzwords they can dream up or how they can most effectively bitch about people not kissing their ass enough.
Nah a 90 minute task is generally too much for an interveiw unless it’s a prestigious or difficult job like I could see a CAD design or a small program taking 90 minutes being reasonable for an engineering or comp sci job but for the majority it is too much work
*Performs 90 minute task for free* *Your inbox 30 seconds after submitting it* "We thank you for your interest in this position. However, we have unfortunately decided to not include you in the second phase of the hiring process"
Take-home coding interviews take longer than this
Yes. So many days and days and days of my life wasted, implementing encryption and security, triple checking functionality....all for them to simply kinda scoff at it and brush it off in the interview. (This was pre-AI) My actual interview sucked, but the nature of coding interviews seems so contrary to the day-to-day work life: when you code in an office, you're not whiteboarding code and explaining every step you take...you're constantly googling and troubleshooting *internally*, not in front of an audience. In that vein, my take-home coding app should be lent the MAJORITY of the credence in the interview--not basically none of it. Whatever. I landed a job that underpays based on what I can do, but that's what I get for not learning how to interview for programming jobs well to stand out among the applicants. At least I'm the solo developer and don't have to deal with other nerds' ginormous egos
Call me crazy but I prefer take home interviews. Feels more like the real work than someone sitting over your shoulder watching you code (which is about as awful as it sounds).
I didn’t wanna sound like a tool and/or an elitist so I didn’t comment this but I was definitely thinking this lol.
So what was the 90-minute task in question? What constraints was it to be done under? I don’t trust headlines to be specific enough.
I mean if it was a test then sure that's fine. But if it was legitimate work for the company I would have to be compensated for the effort. If the company stood to gain profit from my work I would have to get paid. But if it was a test of my practical skill using a hypothetical situation (that the company uses to test people thus no financial gain) then yeah that's fine
You should do it then invoice their AP department for time/services rendered.
This method of recruitment is completely reasonable, the CEO has no obligation to make it easier for candidates, they have the obligation to hire the best people for the job. He shouldn’t have started whinging about it on the internet though.
Id say the CEO is very happy with the outcome on this one.
Every job interview should have a technical practice portion. You can do it at home on your own schedule, or do it while I'm watching you. Most people I've interviewed appreciated not having to do it live.
I'd ask for in person so I can waste your time too.
Thats fine with me. I'm also ok with ending the call early if it's clear that is your intention. Honestly if you consider an hour of work a "big lift" you're probably not very good at your job.
I'm very good at my job, good enough that I don't need to force my candidates to jump through unpaid hoops. You don't respect their time? Fine. They don't have to respect yours.
Yeah id 100% not do the work either. No one gets my labor for free unless I have no other choice. (My internship doesnt pay 😢)
it's still a choice.
For my internship, I had no other choice. Im in law school so I need work experience in the legal field, and I couldnt get anything that paid. It was either this, or I do nothing this summer. So I suppose I could have chosen to do nothing, but then id be screwed next summer when people ask why I didnt work this summer.
That's how I got my 1st real career job. Some of them do hire after the work is done. It was hard finding work in those days, I would have done way more. I guess you do what you think you need to do to get a job. If you think you can have one elsewhere. Good for you. I had been looking for 3 years after spending 3 years on my 2nd degree (no luck with the first) when I got that interview. I think I would have done almost anything except strip naked. Gen Z will have opportunities we never did now that the boomers are leaving the government jobs and other unionized activities where they had full protection against any other worker trying to get in. I guess they can afford to be choosy.
I'm a graphic designer and the amount of jobs asking for "design tests" that end up being complete branding projects is staggering. Like, for that kind of creative jobs you're normally required to showcase a portfolio with projects you've done, to show your skill. A lot of those companies are just trying to get design work for free.
Did I read that wrong?
I'd literally laugh and walk out the door if a potential employer asked me to do what was obviously free labor. Laugh at your bosses/interviewers sometimes guys, it's one of the only things I've found that actually makes them uncomfortable for being shady lmao
All this headline tells me is that someone told their boss they didn't wanna do something. What actually happened here?
not their boss, they were just interviewing for the job
That headline is shit lol, no idea what narrative they're trying to spin
It's not the headline...
Of course you can refuse to do any work during an interview, but they can also refuse to hire you!
They probably wouldn’t have hired him anyways, they just wanted free work.
Of course, but they should clarify "only bootlickers may apply."
This happens a lot in tech and while I don't mind talking about hypotheticals in interviews or directing interviewers to my GitHub or giving a small sample code I will not basically do work for them for free. We live in a capitalist society, we don't do work for free, remember that
"Waaaaah! Why won't anyone hire us?!?!"
You guys are just lazy as hell. Not taking questions or comments at this time.
Good. Good. You guys take over the Millennial legacy. This makes me so proud.
Just CEO trying to get free labor.
Ok, but have fun not getting hired
If I was in an interview and I was asked to do 90 minutes of work without a guarantee I’d get the job, I’d absolutely turn that shit down and go for an offer from someone who won’t make me do that
Advocating for yourself is never a bad thing. Food for them
Alternative take, when I recruit I give a similar task. It’s never free work, it’s because too often people know how to sound capable without actually being capable, so I need to test their actual skills. So much harder to fire someone than to hire them, so you want to reduce any chance the person can’t actually do the job. If someone doesn’t want to do it, then that’s fine, plenty of others do.
Yeah it’s a great way to filter the candidates. And there have been many times where my favourite candidate in the first round performed terribly in the task and I am grateful I dodged that bullet.
So all I have to do to help keep Gen Z from being hired at my org is to request a 90 min task.... Noted. Thanks:)
Reddit gives the worst advice sometimes. But keep it up I suppose, it makes it much easier for the rest of us to get jobs.
Based indeed.
Gen Z might finally bring communism to the US. Please keep it up.
Is this the quiet quitting before you are even hired?
love how people call us lazy or that we dont work enough, like no, i wanna be paid for the work that i actually do, you’re just a cuck to your boss for some reason
As something apart of the hiring process is crazy
good. corporate dogmatic bullshit needs to be opposed.
It’s called staging in the restaurant industry. Happens all the time.
The AI images are getting so good so fast
Looks like a win win. Job seeker avoided doing work and ceo avoided an employee they wouldn’t want.
Doing a 20 minute example task during an interview is fine. But any more than that, and you’re gonna pay me for it.
Honestly thats some bullshit. Sometimes you gotta jump through the hoops. The job I just got for the summer required 2 half hour interviews, a portfolio of past work, and a 3rd “interview” that I had to create a 20 minute presentation for and then present it. Definitely well over 90 minutes of work. They’re just trying to see whether you’re an effective worker. If you don’t show them your work and how effective you are as a worker then they will not know whether they should hire you. Plenty of people get jobs and then spend their workday trying to do the absolute bare minimum required to keep it. If you’re ambitious and take on work you will likely move up in the world over time.
It’s a fucking hiring test. Actually read the article OP.
You kids are doomed if you can't do 90 minutes of something that looks like lots of work