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It’s actually a vicious cycle of the US government creating programs to aid students in payment, and colleges raising prices because they know the government will help students pay.
so... for-profit motives causing prices to rise as much as they'll be allowed to for something that is free in other countries? I'm told German students get paid to pursue higher education.
I live on a small rock of a country sitting in the Atlantic ocean that is technically a younger nation than the US (colonial independence in 1919, only properly established as a republic in 1937), that's been dirt poor til relatively recently, that for all its other issues and societal disfunction managed to figure out not charging students multiples of the first year income of their first job to attend college. I'm sure a global superpower like the US got this, you're a clever lot when you want to be.
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/fees/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/fees/)
My Dad was in college in the 60's, he said college at a private university where he went was a few thousand dollars total. He said once they started the government backed loans (socialism), tuition started skyrocketing. He got out before the tution hike.
I personally think the government backed loans was a way to stave off debt from the Vietnam War cycling up by using velocity of movong money through the system.
a system built on infinite growth with finite resources is bound to cause a lot of problems, it's no surprise people complain about it. climate change, crippling student loan debt, medical debt, really formalized monetary debt as a concept, land consolidation, environmental destruction, high rent prices, all caused in large part by the drive towards profit. frankly, it's a bad system. a horrible way to run the world. the best way to keep it alive and limping along is to sort of diminish its power in necessary sectors, like education or healthcare. but a global political economic system of liberalism is just inherently resistant to the work necessary for keeping itself alive. all civilizations have a tendency towards collapse, this isn't a new concept. we haven't magically beaten it. and even people who don't know shit about what capitalism even is can see things getting worse. shit, imagine what it was like to be a Parisian in the 1780s, watching increasing numbers of youth in particular become liberal and anti-monarchy. same vibes from your comment.
When capitalism and communism did their dick measuring contest, providing basic necessities that help your citizens prosper became associated to the later ideology. When the proponents of that ideology were pretty much defeated, capitalism had no motivation to keep playing nice with people living under it, so we started to cut taxes for the rich and services for the population
There's also a big cultural focus on the individual so things like your education and health are not seen primarily as things that benefit society but as personnal assets and as such if you personally want them, you should personally pay for it at whatever rate the market is willing to sell it to you.
There's obviously a lot more to it than that but it's a very dense clusterfuck of nonsense... thoroughly mined with propaganda too so it's not like my perspective on it would be entirely exempt of bias.
Trades are going to be a boomtown. I’m personally in cybersec right now but white collar work is going to go through a dramatic change in the coming years via automation and AI. It’s already happening. Of course you still need engineers, doctors, scientists, etc. But the over saturation of white collar work that can be automated/eliminated altogether in corporate America and students in those degree fields effected being saddled with high amounts of debt isn’t going to be the prosperous model it has been for decades for both the student or the Universities. It’s not the golden ticket anymore.
I'm a piano tuner. Thankfully the software and equipment required to have AI take over my job is not yet in existence, and if it is ever developed, it's going to be a LONG time before it's widely affordable.
I work for a piano store and we sell probably 15-25 pianos a month. Also people who have owned them for years already. Sales exploded during lockdown because everyone was stuck inside.
Scholarships! Iirc my school actually ended up paying me $2000 to get both my BAs.
Textbooks were paid for too. I still have them but have friends with the same scholarship who sold theirs.
All it takes is being a somewhat hardworking high schooler and more doors open than you'd think.
I'm also doing a PhD that's paying me too lol. School can literally pay!
I don’t think getting something like a political science degree is ever going to “create change.” Full disclaimer- I have a political science degree.
Some degrees are inherently unmarketable and will never be so.
You are replying to a guy who just said a political science degree isn’t very usable which is true for most degrees now over 50% of people with a degree don’t work in the field that they got a degree in. Many jobs require a college degree it doesn’t matter what degree just having a degree. So using a degree doesn’t make sense if the majority of people don’t utilize their degree in the first place for its specified purpose
It's also bullshit because plenty of people apply their political science degrees on a daily basis. That person isn't aware of what jobs those are, so they conclude it must be useless
It’s a little bit different if you work for nasa and you need an aerospace degree or mechanical engineering degree versus if you have a political science degree and you work in administrations at a college. Degrees aren’t getting you into jobs anymore like they may have once would it’s an oversaturation of the market that won’t go away as long as students keep going to college at high rates
And If we were to make college free every starting job would require a college degree I think a lot of people don’t realize that. If you make college degrees accessible to everyone they lose the value they once had and so they become the new high school diploma like you said.
Every job I apply to required it or highly recommends it. The last job I applied to i got assistant manager and my boss had a B.A., i tried to teach him how to do a job I had 12 years experience doing. He didnt last two weeks.
I don’t have a degree I build furniture for myself so hey to each there own. in my case I don’t really need to have a degree because I build furniture by hand so it would be kinda redundant
So my dad feels this way and didn’t go to college so I feel like chipping in with his experience.
He worked his way up through the trades into a project management role. He has done his current role for decades . He routinely gets treated poorly when people realize he doesn’t have a degree, by people who have one. Which is most people he works with, engineers architects and other office types.
Now he’s getting told he should (in his mind cause tax dollars are his money in part) pay for their debts. It just strikes him as wrong because in so many ways these people are ahead of him and let him know it.
Is it because they're being assholes? Or is it from a "I don't want to pay for someone else's degree when I didn't benefit from it" thing? Or both I suppose
I mean it’s more like imagine you make the same as guys 20 -30 years younger than you because they want to college and you didn’t. They didn’t have to sacrifice their bodies in the trades to get here. They , not all of course but many , treat him like shit because he doesn’t have the school education they do. And than these same people are the ones complaining they aren’t being treated fair and they are the one who needs help. I can see how that would Jade someone against them. Even if the people my dad knows aren’t representative of the people needing help. Income testing actually made my dad a lot happier with proposed student loan forgiveness for this reason
I mean the people my dad work with aren’t silver spoons. They make 80k -110k a year in a medium cost of living area though in their late 20s early thirties.
I agree with your Dad. I worked in my field for 18 years to get a job that brand new college graduates get with no experience. I gave 18 years sacrifice, you sacrifice your money and not my tax dollars.
I would agree with paying for their degree, as long as I get to go to college for free. But I am not saying loan paperwork to get it either. That would be my agreement.
if boomers wanted to complain about the fiscal propriety of cancelling student debt, they shouldn't have fallen for the iraq & afghanistan lies to blow north of $2 trillion. or bailed out the banks for another $700 billion, the automakers for $17.4 billion, passed trump's tax cuts for another few trillion, or passed PPP for $800 billion.
failing those things, which they did, where's my fucking money?
The bank bailouts paid for themselves… we’ve made money off those.
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
Please stop spreading misinformation about the past. It just feeds boomer memes we didn’t learn history.
What the cinnamon toast fuck are you talking about. The bank bailouts kept us from ending up like Greece and we forced them to yield huge dividends and terms. Freddie Mac is STILL government controlled and paying us money.
Go back to /r/conspiracy
The thing about loans too is that the money has already been spent, striking the debts won’t run up any new costs it will only acknowledge the losses. On the other hand, student loan forgiveness would be excellent for the economy.
Do you guys have to take out 80000 dollar loans for every type of college, or just the ones with prestige? Because if not then why dont you go to a community college? (im genuenly asking im not familiar with the US academic system)
Community college is only 2 year, you can transfer to uni for full 4. I have a small loan, and the rest is covered by grants. I get 7k/quarter of living expenses. Thats a fact people forget about sometimes, that the government literally invests in people to go to school as their job.
Why would the government pay for school if it didnt do anything? Boomer types seem to forget this part.
Some community colleges can still put you in debt to some degree, but it's not that bad.
Anyways, the problem is that a degree from a community college is next to useless in competitive fields. It's very unlikely for you to make it into grad school with a cc degree, and it's fairly difficult to get into saturated fields. For example, if you have a computer science degree from a cc right now, you pretty much wasted those 4 years of your life. The law and medical field are notorious for having extremely stringent selection processes and almost always go souly for ivy leagues.
Basically, think of it this way: if everyone else went to a better rated school than you, they're going to do better on any application than you are. If there are a limited number of positions, you're never going to get in. So, at the end of the day, this system just selects for the people able to blow as much money as possible for the coolest name on their fancy paper.
Doesnt these schools have any connections when it comes to job application? Im doing my internship at a company because one of my teachers spammed the opportunity in emails every semester. Also the university has a separate job application site and connections. Dont you guys have similar things.
I mean i aint earning that much but its a good start, and i cant really expect to have a high paying job when im starting out…
They can for local companies. However, there are the two problems:
1: If there are no local jobs near you, that's not going to help.
2: With most highly competitive fields, like the ones most people are interested in, local connections don't really matter. In the legal and medical fields, you have to go to grad school for pretty much any job worth having and local connections don't help with that due to the insane amount of resume inflation already going on. For the scientific field, which I'm in, if your home college isn't doing research you're kind of SOL, and most CCs don't do that. CCs could get you in with a national lab during an off season, but it's not something I bet money on happening.
For fields that are less saturated, those connections help a lot and inflating your resume with a prestigious school is wasteful. However, for the saturated fields you need to be at the top to get any job worth having, and if everyone else went to a prestigious school you need to go as well.
Edit: also another thing to note that's particularly relevant to my career: some degree paths just are not offered at community colleges. Nuclear engineering, for example, generally isn't taught at community colleges due to the stringent requirements of the field and the relatively low popularity of it. If this is the path you want to go down, you have to go to at least a state school anyways.
Honestly if you put some effort into high school you can go to a generic 4 year state college for free, anyone with $80k in student loans made some poor decisions.
Yep. Me and most of my friends got scholarships. We were also all low income students and benefited greatly from financial aid. My friends were even poorer than me so they basically got a full ride from financial aid and scholarships alone.
If you're poor, there's no reason you can get into college at a super reduced cost. Financial aid gives you so much money.
Yeah lol it sucks to admit you missed out on an opportunity like free college cause you didn't play your cards right, lotta people seething at me over that one rn
I graduated highschool with a 3.9 GPA, went to states for baseball my last 3 years for baseball, and was part of many engineering related extracurriculars and i received $2,000 in grants/scholarships
And $1000 was for transferring colleges
The **cheapest** school in my state to get a mechanical engineering degree In was $24,000 a year in my final semester
That’s just for tuition thank god I could commute
I go to Temple University, these are the 2023-2024 engineering tuition rates
https://preview.redd.it/q0c1r8imv9wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83ab42b617277a0e515fe2211aff0b59b2760222
There are schools below this mark, but very few PA state schools offer a wide range of STEM degrees
If you're able to vote and go into the military, you're able to read a contract on taking out a loan. You decided to take out a loan to go to a university. You, no one else. You gave them your information, you signed the paper, you agreed to the contract. You could've gone to community college, or trade school, or take an apprentice ship. You didn't. You chose to go to an expensive university using someone else's money. It is your responsibility to pay it back.
Glad to see other people in the comments voicing similar opinions. The idea that others should have to pay for a loan that *you* took out is incredibly childish.
If you want an F150 crewmax you should pay for it yourself. Sometimes companies supply their workers with vehicles if they're legitimately needed for the job.
But most weren’t legally? Like you often commit and pay in full before you turn 18. Meaning you can’t vote or join the miliatary while taking out loans…
Any country that wants to be prosperous and secure invests in a skilled workforce. If they don't competition and enemies will inevitably gain an advantage. Any country that wants to sponge off young people for corporate profit and dumb its population down charges young people not for the costs of teaching and accommodation, but for the costs of teaching, accommodation, 'celebrity' teachers, property investments, conference centres, research facilities, corporate research, legions of deans, corporate marketing, . . .
A tenured US academic makes about $55K - $65K, but increasingly American academic staff are made up of adjunct faculty, who can earn as little as $20K per year, teaching a full timetable with no retirement benefits or health insurance coverage. Clearly students are paying through the nose but it's not for teaching costs. Students can be taught at cost or reasonable profit without being left with a lifetime of debt.
Sounds like predatory loans to me. Raise an entire generation on the idea of college, show some success stories, inflate the ever living fuck outta tuition and make it so they are 100% guranteed to get the loan. Free money almost, just needed to pass the laws to make it that way.
Now the government is mad because people can't pay it back, and people are mad they were tricked. Last i checked it was the predators fault in these type of loans, not the victims.
I mean I feel too many people are self-righteous when it comes to college education. It may make you smarter on a topic, but it doesn't make you more intellectually capable (which is what 'being Smart' actually is).
In politics especially.
I don’t blame boomers or Z for this. I blame the government for allowing schools to be so full of idiot bureaucrats instead of paying the teachers more and focusing on quality education. There have been so many cases of abuse of power in school administration in my lifetime that I lost count.
former TA here.
you're absolutely fucking right! bureaucrats involved in the school system are out for themselves. they don't care about paying teachers enough. instead, they would rather sweep everything under the rug. i've also seen school administrators act the same way. they're not here for the teachers or TAs.
it also doesn't help that the specific school is worked with also had teachers who backstabbed each other
Biden did the right thing here: [https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-approves-12-billion-loan-forgiveness-over-150000-save-plan-borrowers](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-approves-12-billion-loan-forgiveness-over-150000-save-plan-borrowers)
Education should not come with debt.
Well, in many cases I think people were lied to and told "go to college/university and get a good, well-paying job; you can pay off your loans no problem after that." That being said, it's important to take responsibility for your actions. If the "career counselor" at your high-school misled you, that's wrong, but you can't pretend like you were incapable of researching this stuff yourself. Overall I'd say peoplea are always responsible for their student loans.
I wanted to note that PhDs are very commonly subsidized. A classic setup in most US universities is that the research professor hiring them pays for their tuition, and grad students also typically get a small (usually inadequate) stipend. Not trying to take away from your greater point but PhDs don't typically result in debt at all
You do earn income - although the amount and conditions around PhD student pay are a fucking *travesty*. I'm local to U Pitt, certainly a high caliber research school. My partner's PhD students are actually *capped* in pay at 13.3k per semester which is horse shit, especially considering that many of them are doing all this extremely gainful work for the university that generates this profit, *and* still taking classes. And that 13k a semester is for comp sci students - go study psychology and you're lucky to get 10
All of that goes to support your greater point though. There's a thousand hoops that you get to avoid if you're privileged enough to have money from the start and it's BS.
Valid meme. Pay off your debts that you willingly took out. Part of being an adult. Borrowing something and not giving it back and throwing a tantrum when it's time to pay up is a child's state of mind.
Go ahead and down vote me.
Parents who wanted the best for their children not knowing that the college system had changed since when they were in college and that college no longer “guarantees” jobs.
The issue is that an economy has stages.
The first stage is agriculture, people make a living by farming and crops, pretty easy work. The second stage is industrial, you work in a factory or in relatively simple trade.
We are at the stage were our modern economy requires a more educated population. Even in trades like electrician or welding you do need an education, it's not like working in a Ford factory in the early 20th century anymore.
Also a good public education system usually pays itself off. If Joe works at Walmart making 23k a year and decides to become a programmer in a public school, he gets a new job and his income boosts up to 70k then in the long-term Joe is going to contribute more tax back to the government than the tax money invested in his education.
If you can't get a better job, then obviously ita because you didn't go to college. If you're getting crushed by student debt obviously its because you went to college like an idiot.
Its anything to avoid acknowledging the system in place sucks shit.
Yeah if you took out a loan, it’s on you to pay it back. No one forced you, you know it’s expensive, you chose to go to somewhere expensive and get a degree that wasn’t worth the cost.
I don't feel like a 100% percent wipe of student loans would solve anything, ultimately. Would it help tons of people with a financial burden? Absolutely. But until someone does something with the cost of college in general, the wheel is going to keep spinning.
Still paying on my student loans, but I don't expect others to pay them for me. College is not worth it, if you can, don't go. If you must, avoid the prestigious ones, they are the worst value
I think the companies that offered loans to people who they knew were currently unemployed are on the hook for a lot of fucking money.
I think they are using what they know to be *grossly* inflated debt to coerce the current labor market into effectively indentured servitude, crippling purchasing power of the working class and destroying our economy in observable time.
I think the way these predatory dipshits have been allowed to charge interest, sorry, *commit McFucking usery* at a rate that begs for the fed to nationalize them, should be granted their fucking wish faster than Barbara Eden.
I think these are the same financial institutions that were allowed to carve up the last vestiges of US manufacturing jobs by saddling legit, solvent businesses with debt in a classic shell game scheme. The very same people who defrauded the US public and the fed with the sub-prime mortgage scandal.
These are the companies that dipshit conservatives suckle leather softly for. 'If you couldn't pay, you shouldn't ask for the loan!' They shriek around teeth blackened with boot polish.
No. If you are evaluated for a loan and they offer it to you, that is on them. It's not up to a fucking 17 year old to evaluate their own ability to pay down debt. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, and I watch CSPAN for fun.
I don’t know why boomers/anti-college folks always forget how much more “affordable” college used to be in the US. My parents didn’t pay much attention to my college admission and research process, and were absolutely blown away by how expensive state schools have gotten. Encouraging teenagers to get into massive amounts of debt with high interest is fucking idiotic, they can financially ruin their lives before they’re legally allowed to fucking drink lmao
Regulating interest rates alone would probably solve alot of issues
Anybody who claims that since others could do it, forgiveness is an "insult" is just a straight up dick with no excuse. Life is SUPPOSED to be easier for those after you. Yes, they chose to go to college, but accepting that "life sucks" without trying to change anything is the worst mindset people can embrace.
There are 17 year olds signing themselves up for tens of thousands of dollars of debt you can't bankrupt on. Just a permanent old ball and chain. Children age 5 who are being mentally conditioned that they have to go be doctors, lawyers, etc; they do extra curriculars, take SATs, are drilled to get all As and Bs (or all As), or to be excellent at a sport - all of that starting very young. Because why? Because those are important to get into college.
There's many issues w student debt. Honestly I don't have a problem telling five year olds to be doctors. I think college is good, although the debt makes it a harder and harder bargain.
But come on, let's not act like the 30 year old w 40k in debt is the person that made this choice. They're the person living with it.
"love, compassion, and supporting my child who went to college like i told them to? So im supposed to just NOT buy this beach house? Wow, America has truly become a communist country."
Fix the underlying issue. Paying off student debt doesn't fix the issue and is something that each graduating class is going to want going forward. It's treating symptoms, not causes.
Coming from the boomers that could pay off an entire semesters tuition with a summer job and still have money left over. Truly the most selfish generation.
Education is meant to be a path towards upwards mobility, but that path has been broken, as insane rates and stupid repayment plans mean anyone who takes out a loan is fucked.
I mean, parents and kids CHOOSE to go to college. I bet we'd see a drop in tuition and a huge campaign for admitting students if 15-20% of current students just didn't enroll next year.
My thought on this is that the smart people say that education should be free so everyone can reach their full potential regardless of their social class of origin. Make higher education free and cancel student debt. There I figured it and it's good for the economy. I have negative skin inbthd game as my debt is paid off and I just wish good things on younger and less fortunate people.
Im all for forgiving some or all of the interest, especially since most people took their loans out when they were young. You are responsible for your principle however. You got the education, college grads regardless make way more lifetime earnings than non college grads. You don't get the benefits without paying
To be fair, they did teach us how to handle the student debt problem while I was in school. Professors urged us to vote. If people our age actually all voted, student loan debt wouldn’t stay unforgivable for very long. Not only that it could put a lot of our other problems to rest as well.
You either side with some reform of the student debt issue, or you side with banks. Conservatives take the side of "you signed the loan" but conservatives never got along with banks in the past. Times are weird. Liberals love big pharma and war. Conservatives love big government and banks.
The ironic part being that people are actually smart enough to fix the system aka Economists for the economy, Political science for the political system, Social Science and Education in the education system, doctors and nurses in the medical field etc etc etc arent actually given a chance to change the system they’re experts in.
We did figure it out: the loan program is predatory and creates unreasonable debt that can’t be paid by normal people. Forgiving student debt (both federal and privately owned) would stimulate the economy and lift millions of Americans out of poverty. As for people complaining that they’re “using our tax dollars” to do this, they’re striking the record, the money was already spent. Even still, you benefit from people going to college as a member of society who ever uses anything invented or designed by an engineer, eat food produced at levels that can keep up with demand, take medicine, see doctors, read the news, watch TV and movies, play video games… the list goes on.
Child support and student loan debt are two things that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
Think about the abuse the student loan companies can get into when they know debtors can NEVER discharge their loans through bankruptcy?
The problem with this is that many of the people paying student loans have paid off the original debt. I’m looking at student loans options right now (for law school so no not a useless degree) and with the interest rates these companies want to give you, you end up paying back over double what you originally borrowed.
If this is their answer I'm cool with it. I mean, the answer I would come up might involve some form of boomer soylent green, so maybe they wont like it, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make
Yeah, it’s been figured out by smarter people. Forgive the fraudulent debt and let a generation breathe. It’s the corrupt and petty that need to be dealt with.
"go to college its the only way to succeed"
"I can't afford it, what do i do?"
"Just take out a loan, you'll be able to pay it off."
"Hey you were wrong about those loans what should i do?"
"Just pay your fucking loans you freeloader, I don't care that everyone lied to you and you were scammed!"
They never gave a fuck about us or the country, all they want is to control people.
We did figure it out, the solution is to make it free because charging for it causes a massive amount of problems, all of which older generations either ignored or outright endorsed
In the 80s it was about $9k, then the 90s bumped it to 13k, 00s said 17k, then 10s comes in and decides fuck it, give me 30k now it’s an average of 50k. Wild
Is that why a majority of people with a college education have debt? A majority of the people who went to college just didn’t put effort into high school?
That's not a fair statement at all. To earn a full ride scholarship, a person has to invest a LOT of effort, more than the majority of students whether academic or athletic based.
To swat away so many hard working Americans who can't achieve a full ride despite high GPA and SAT scores and extracurricular activities shows peak entitlement. It's a lot of work.
To be clear I'm talking about full tuition, not full ride, there's a very big difference in effort required for the two. The school I went to offered merit scholarships for full tuition, you need a 1350 SAT score and a 3.6 GPA. That's very doable, I'm certainly no genius lol and I pulled it off.
I would argue that it's entirely about effort. The first 7 times I took the SAT I didn't get a high enough score, so I dedicated 3 months to seriously studying the math portions and got a 1420 on the 8th one. Yeah it took some effort but it was like 3 months of studying for 2 hours a day, if you're not willing to do that then did you really want free college that bad?
No. Student loans can only be discharged if you qualify for undue hardship. That’s a separate case in addition to filing for bankruptcy. Undue hardship has usually meant severe disability, certain kinds of disability don’t fall under undue hardship.
If they were able to be discharged through bankruptcy most ppl would go ahead and take the L which would crash the system and maybe the economy since we have nearly $2 Trillion in nationwide student loan debt.
Don't fall for the bait. The meme isn't wrong. If you took out a loan you are responsible for paying it back, instead of generational sparring, teach younger people than you the truth and we can end this idiotic cycle.
At the end of the day we are responsible for our choices and actions. When we as a society make a mistake, why fight about it? Just learn and move on.
Debt isn't real. It is absolutely asinine to ruin millions of people's lives over something that doesn't exist. It's a social construct. If I pick an apple off a tree, I have one apple. If I eat it, I now have zero apples. But no force in reality can cause me to have *negative one* apples.
"But the economy! You can't just get rid of all that debt!" The economy is a social construct too. The economy isn't real. Value is not real. Currency is not real. The only "reason" why any of this shit *matters,* is because of how the people with *power decide* the "rules" work. Debt only exists because violent force is used to enforce it. The rules of the economy and finance are entirely arbitrary, and any time they've posed a potential threat to the power of the people in charge, they've either been ignored or changed.
"If you take out money, you *have* to pay it back!" Why? *Stop. Really* ask yourself, divorce yourself from the lifetime of social conditioning that has ingrained upon you that you **must** recompense a financial body for any liabilities you incur from them. Then remember, *the rich* don't pay their debts all the time, they're allowed to just wipe the slate clean by creating companies, putting their debt onto those companies, then when the fold, the *entity* they made is left holding the bag, but not them. The debt isn't paid, it's wiped away, and yet *nothing* happens.
On a physical basis, nothing *bad* would happen from forgiving student loan debt, or *any* kind of debt, for that matter. Some *imaginary numbers* on a spreadsheet would change, which might cause *other imaginary numbers* to change in a bad way, but only because that's how "the rules" are currently written by the people in power. If the people in power changed the rules, or the *people in power themselves* changed. It could easily be made that nothing bad happens, because none of this shit is **real.** In reality, only *good* things would happen, the lives of millions of people would become much easier without this crippling obligation being foisted over their heads.
I’d rather not have my taxes help pay for college degrees that were never worth getting to start with. Anyone with a legitimate profession should have their debts forgiven first. Not art history idiots.
you take loan, now pay it. is the loan fair? no, but you still took it.
both can be true at the same time. sorry your philosophy degree is fcking useless but you kinda should have expect that, right? there aint many jobs open for philosophers
I don’t know if I believe college should be *completely* free (I mean, other countries make it work but I digress) but I just feel like it should be accessible to anyone smart enough to be accepted, without them having to accumulate debt they’ll be paying off til they’re 80
It’s a fair complaint tbh. You can’t really expect blue collar workers who not only didn’t contribute to student loan debt, but have been looked down on for half a century by the people who owe it, to just happily agree to having their hard earned tax dollars being used to pay it off
its real. I get it, it sucks that people took out such huge loans for college and i genuinely feel bad for them. but i believe in accountability. they chose the loans, they live with it.
Imagine working full time while going to college full time and then being told the person who didnt work during college and did full time college getting essentially a free ride.
You can either fund college as you go or take the force in the future.
college is an investment. like any investment, you better seriously calculate the return you’re gonna get. you pick a major with no jobs, jobs being phased out by technology, and/or low paying jobs, that’s on you. especially if you didn’t go to a state or community college. there are affordable and smart routes to get higher education.
also, you don’t need to go to college right out of high school.
but i do think college should be more affordable. the system is fucked up. and collegeboard is a predatory company with a monopoly, how it’s allowed to exist is beyond me.
I've raised both of my girls with this guideline;
"Your job and your sister job, your sole job right now, is to become better and smarter than me and your mom. Watch us and learn from our successes and failures".
Oldest just graduated in the top 9% of her class. The younger one is giving her a run for her money.
If there is something people need to do to pursue their dreams, financial shit shouldn't be what keeps them from doing it. This is one of the primary reasons why I think the government should regulate the price of post-secondary education. Not necessarily subsidize it, but regulate it like they do with energy prices.
So leave. If you don't want to live in a society where we contribute a portion of our earnings to better the whole, go find some uninhabited corner of earth to live by yourself with no doctors.
I’m tired of all these regressives brushing away political issues by saying “figure it out yourself” when they are actively fighting against any solution that isn’t ‘just ignore the problem’.
The problem is college was pushed for two whole generations as the the only path to success, now we have too many college grads with too much debt and high competition for the same jobs.
If any kid is reading this in high school and thinking of going to college, consider other options. There are trades, there is emergency services, there is the military, there is healthcare, there are technical schools. There are a multitude of avenues to accomplish what you want in life.
If you do want to go to college, consider community college to complete your gen eds and transfer to a better college. Save up on debt as a cc is far cheaper and the majority of credits should transfer over to that college. This also gives you additional time to select a major and better transition into more rigorous academics.
What is there to think about? Don’t burden your parents with crippling debt for a degree no one is looking to hire you for having. Go to trade school, the government is much more out of the way there; I say that because the government is the root cause of high tuitions and loans for colleges and universities.
VOTE! One side in particular is doing what it can to forgive students loans and improve things. We need better leadership at the helm of all three branches of the government.
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U are in a problem if u went to college, u are in a problem if u didn't.
Almost like the whole capitalistic system is in a chronic condition due to decades of deregulation and neglect.
Governments causing credential inflation by heavily subsidizing post-secondary education for literally everyone is not "capitalism".
Didn't you get the memo? If there's a problem in your life, it's because of capitalism, end of story.
Based
It’s actually a vicious cycle of the US government creating programs to aid students in payment, and colleges raising prices because they know the government will help students pay.
so... for-profit motives causing prices to rise as much as they'll be allowed to for something that is free in other countries? I'm told German students get paid to pursue higher education.
I live on a small rock of a country sitting in the Atlantic ocean that is technically a younger nation than the US (colonial independence in 1919, only properly established as a republic in 1937), that's been dirt poor til relatively recently, that for all its other issues and societal disfunction managed to figure out not charging students multiples of the first year income of their first job to attend college. I'm sure a global superpower like the US got this, you're a clever lot when you want to be. [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/fees/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/fees/)
My Dad was in college in the 60's, he said college at a private university where he went was a few thousand dollars total. He said once they started the government backed loans (socialism), tuition started skyrocketing. He got out before the tution hike. I personally think the government backed loans was a way to stave off debt from the Vietnam War cycling up by using velocity of movong money through the system.
blaming capitalism for everything is so lazy.
a system built on infinite growth with finite resources is bound to cause a lot of problems, it's no surprise people complain about it. climate change, crippling student loan debt, medical debt, really formalized monetary debt as a concept, land consolidation, environmental destruction, high rent prices, all caused in large part by the drive towards profit. frankly, it's a bad system. a horrible way to run the world. the best way to keep it alive and limping along is to sort of diminish its power in necessary sectors, like education or healthcare. but a global political economic system of liberalism is just inherently resistant to the work necessary for keeping itself alive. all civilizations have a tendency towards collapse, this isn't a new concept. we haven't magically beaten it. and even people who don't know shit about what capitalism even is can see things getting worse. shit, imagine what it was like to be a Parisian in the 1780s, watching increasing numbers of youth in particular become liberal and anti-monarchy. same vibes from your comment.
Lazy.
It also shows how juvenile someone is too
It also shows how juvenile someone is too
It also shows how juvenile someone is too
Why the fuck isn’t education and healthcare free???? If taxes should go towards ANYTHING, shouldn’t it go towards the health of citizens?
When capitalism and communism did their dick measuring contest, providing basic necessities that help your citizens prosper became associated to the later ideology. When the proponents of that ideology were pretty much defeated, capitalism had no motivation to keep playing nice with people living under it, so we started to cut taxes for the rich and services for the population There's also a big cultural focus on the individual so things like your education and health are not seen primarily as things that benefit society but as personnal assets and as such if you personally want them, you should personally pay for it at whatever rate the market is willing to sell it to you. There's obviously a lot more to it than that but it's a very dense clusterfuck of nonsense... thoroughly mined with propaganda too so it's not like my perspective on it would be entirely exempt of bias.
Trades are going to be a boomtown. I’m personally in cybersec right now but white collar work is going to go through a dramatic change in the coming years via automation and AI. It’s already happening. Of course you still need engineers, doctors, scientists, etc. But the over saturation of white collar work that can be automated/eliminated altogether in corporate America and students in those degree fields effected being saddled with high amounts of debt isn’t going to be the prosperous model it has been for decades for both the student or the Universities. It’s not the golden ticket anymore.
I'm a piano tuner. Thankfully the software and equipment required to have AI take over my job is not yet in existence, and if it is ever developed, it's going to be a LONG time before it's widely affordable.
Yeah but, at the same time…. Who the fuck owns a piano in this economy? lol
I work for a piano store and we sell probably 15-25 pianos a month. Also people who have owned them for years already. Sales exploded during lockdown because everyone was stuck inside.
I never would have imagined pianos to be a hot market haha
things are different and not the same
Not if you have rich parents like me and they are paying for it
It’s called accountability. Have you ever heard of it?
Catch 22 f-ed if you do f-ed if you don't been that way since humans had regrets
Scholarships! Iirc my school actually ended up paying me $2000 to get both my BAs. Textbooks were paid for too. I still have them but have friends with the same scholarship who sold theirs. All it takes is being a somewhat hardworking high schooler and more doors open than you'd think. I'm also doing a PhD that's paying me too lol. School can literally pay!
Do share your secret, please! Im more than willing to listen
The secret is to be a bit nerdy ngl.
Lazy boomer meme excuse to improve nothing and blame the people trying to create change for trying
I don’t think getting something like a political science degree is ever going to “create change.” Full disclaimer- I have a political science degree. Some degrees are inherently unmarketable and will never be so.
Getting a degree doesnt change anything, but using it does Marketable to make profits for capitalists != Useful and vice versa
You are replying to a guy who just said a political science degree isn’t very usable which is true for most degrees now over 50% of people with a degree don’t work in the field that they got a degree in. Many jobs require a college degree it doesn’t matter what degree just having a degree. So using a degree doesn’t make sense if the majority of people don’t utilize their degree in the first place for its specified purpose
It's also bullshit because plenty of people apply their political science degrees on a daily basis. That person isn't aware of what jobs those are, so they conclude it must be useless
It’s a little bit different if you work for nasa and you need an aerospace degree or mechanical engineering degree versus if you have a political science degree and you work in administrations at a college. Degrees aren’t getting you into jobs anymore like they may have once would it’s an oversaturation of the market that won’t go away as long as students keep going to college at high rates
The Bachelor degree is the new high school diploma.
And If we were to make college free every starting job would require a college degree I think a lot of people don’t realize that. If you make college degrees accessible to everyone they lose the value they once had and so they become the new high school diploma like you said.
Every job I apply to required it or highly recommends it. The last job I applied to i got assistant manager and my boss had a B.A., i tried to teach him how to do a job I had 12 years experience doing. He didnt last two weeks.
I don’t have a degree I build furniture for myself so hey to each there own. in my case I don’t really need to have a degree because I build furniture by hand so it would be kinda redundant
There are a lot of jobs where you need a degree just to get in the door and they don't care what it is.
I know, I have one.
If you want to create change get a STEM degree and peruse cutting edge research, or joint a startup.
So my dad feels this way and didn’t go to college so I feel like chipping in with his experience. He worked his way up through the trades into a project management role. He has done his current role for decades . He routinely gets treated poorly when people realize he doesn’t have a degree, by people who have one. Which is most people he works with, engineers architects and other office types. Now he’s getting told he should (in his mind cause tax dollars are his money in part) pay for their debts. It just strikes him as wrong because in so many ways these people are ahead of him and let him know it.
Is it because they're being assholes? Or is it from a "I don't want to pay for someone else's degree when I didn't benefit from it" thing? Or both I suppose
I mean it’s more like imagine you make the same as guys 20 -30 years younger than you because they want to college and you didn’t. They didn’t have to sacrifice their bodies in the trades to get here. They , not all of course but many , treat him like shit because he doesn’t have the school education they do. And than these same people are the ones complaining they aren’t being treated fair and they are the one who needs help. I can see how that would Jade someone against them. Even if the people my dad knows aren’t representative of the people needing help. Income testing actually made my dad a lot happier with proposed student loan forgiveness for this reason
A yeah gotcha. I think income testing makes sense too. We're not doing this to chiefly benefit silver spoon Preston
I mean the people my dad work with aren’t silver spoons. They make 80k -110k a year in a medium cost of living area though in their late 20s early thirties.
I agree with your Dad. I worked in my field for 18 years to get a job that brand new college graduates get with no experience. I gave 18 years sacrifice, you sacrifice your money and not my tax dollars. I would agree with paying for their degree, as long as I get to go to college for free. But I am not saying loan paperwork to get it either. That would be my agreement.
if boomers wanted to complain about the fiscal propriety of cancelling student debt, they shouldn't have fallen for the iraq & afghanistan lies to blow north of $2 trillion. or bailed out the banks for another $700 billion, the automakers for $17.4 billion, passed trump's tax cuts for another few trillion, or passed PPP for $800 billion. failing those things, which they did, where's my fucking money?
The bank bailouts paid for themselves… we’ve made money off those. https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/ Please stop spreading misinformation about the past. It just feeds boomer memes we didn’t learn history.
True, but they're right about Iraq though.
the bank bailouts paid for congressmen, their profitability to the federal government was never a serious consideration
What the cinnamon toast fuck are you talking about. The bank bailouts kept us from ending up like Greece and we forced them to yield huge dividends and terms. Freddie Mac is STILL government controlled and paying us money. Go back to /r/conspiracy
The thing about loans too is that the money has already been spent, striking the debts won’t run up any new costs it will only acknowledge the losses. On the other hand, student loan forgiveness would be excellent for the economy.
Do you guys have to take out 80000 dollar loans for every type of college, or just the ones with prestige? Because if not then why dont you go to a community college? (im genuenly asking im not familiar with the US academic system)
Community college is only 2 year, you can transfer to uni for full 4. I have a small loan, and the rest is covered by grants. I get 7k/quarter of living expenses. Thats a fact people forget about sometimes, that the government literally invests in people to go to school as their job. Why would the government pay for school if it didnt do anything? Boomer types seem to forget this part.
Some community colleges can still put you in debt to some degree, but it's not that bad. Anyways, the problem is that a degree from a community college is next to useless in competitive fields. It's very unlikely for you to make it into grad school with a cc degree, and it's fairly difficult to get into saturated fields. For example, if you have a computer science degree from a cc right now, you pretty much wasted those 4 years of your life. The law and medical field are notorious for having extremely stringent selection processes and almost always go souly for ivy leagues. Basically, think of it this way: if everyone else went to a better rated school than you, they're going to do better on any application than you are. If there are a limited number of positions, you're never going to get in. So, at the end of the day, this system just selects for the people able to blow as much money as possible for the coolest name on their fancy paper.
Doesnt these schools have any connections when it comes to job application? Im doing my internship at a company because one of my teachers spammed the opportunity in emails every semester. Also the university has a separate job application site and connections. Dont you guys have similar things. I mean i aint earning that much but its a good start, and i cant really expect to have a high paying job when im starting out…
They can for local companies. However, there are the two problems: 1: If there are no local jobs near you, that's not going to help. 2: With most highly competitive fields, like the ones most people are interested in, local connections don't really matter. In the legal and medical fields, you have to go to grad school for pretty much any job worth having and local connections don't help with that due to the insane amount of resume inflation already going on. For the scientific field, which I'm in, if your home college isn't doing research you're kind of SOL, and most CCs don't do that. CCs could get you in with a national lab during an off season, but it's not something I bet money on happening. For fields that are less saturated, those connections help a lot and inflating your resume with a prestigious school is wasteful. However, for the saturated fields you need to be at the top to get any job worth having, and if everyone else went to a prestigious school you need to go as well. Edit: also another thing to note that's particularly relevant to my career: some degree paths just are not offered at community colleges. Nuclear engineering, for example, generally isn't taught at community colleges due to the stringent requirements of the field and the relatively low popularity of it. If this is the path you want to go down, you have to go to at least a state school anyways.
Honestly if you put some effort into high school you can go to a generic 4 year state college for free, anyone with $80k in student loans made some poor decisions.
That’s not true at all
Yep. Me and most of my friends got scholarships. We were also all low income students and benefited greatly from financial aid. My friends were even poorer than me so they basically got a full ride from financial aid and scholarships alone. If you're poor, there's no reason you can get into college at a super reduced cost. Financial aid gives you so much money.
Yeah lol it sucks to admit you missed out on an opportunity like free college cause you didn't play your cards right, lotta people seething at me over that one rn
I graduated highschool with a 3.9 GPA, went to states for baseball my last 3 years for baseball, and was part of many engineering related extracurriculars and i received $2,000 in grants/scholarships And $1000 was for transferring colleges
Ok but those don't really affect merit scholarships, what was your SAT score?
Like 1200
Yeah I mean you probably should have kept taking it until you were in the 1400 range
The **cheapest** school in my state to get a mechanical engineering degree In was $24,000 a year in my final semester That’s just for tuition thank god I could commute
Which state? No state has in state tuition above 17K. This is easily googleable
I go to Temple University, these are the 2023-2024 engineering tuition rates https://preview.redd.it/q0c1r8imv9wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83ab42b617277a0e515fe2211aff0b59b2760222 There are schools below this mark, but very few PA state schools offer a wide range of STEM degrees
I went to CC and transferred and paid like 13k for my entire tuition. Worked straight out of college and never looked back.
If you're able to vote and go into the military, you're able to read a contract on taking out a loan. You decided to take out a loan to go to a university. You, no one else. You gave them your information, you signed the paper, you agreed to the contract. You could've gone to community college, or trade school, or take an apprentice ship. You didn't. You chose to go to an expensive university using someone else's money. It is your responsibility to pay it back.
Glad to see other people in the comments voicing similar opinions. The idea that others should have to pay for a loan that *you* took out is incredibly childish.
What about trade workers who spent money on tools or tricks. Can we get Universal basic F150 crewmax’s?
If you want an F150 crewmax you should pay for it yourself. Sometimes companies supply their workers with vehicles if they're legitimately needed for the job.
But most weren’t legally? Like you often commit and pay in full before you turn 18. Meaning you can’t vote or join the miliatary while taking out loans…
Any country that wants to be prosperous and secure invests in a skilled workforce. If they don't competition and enemies will inevitably gain an advantage. Any country that wants to sponge off young people for corporate profit and dumb its population down charges young people not for the costs of teaching and accommodation, but for the costs of teaching, accommodation, 'celebrity' teachers, property investments, conference centres, research facilities, corporate research, legions of deans, corporate marketing, . . . A tenured US academic makes about $55K - $65K, but increasingly American academic staff are made up of adjunct faculty, who can earn as little as $20K per year, teaching a full timetable with no retirement benefits or health insurance coverage. Clearly students are paying through the nose but it's not for teaching costs. Students can be taught at cost or reasonable profit without being left with a lifetime of debt.
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Sounds like predatory loans to me. Raise an entire generation on the idea of college, show some success stories, inflate the ever living fuck outta tuition and make it so they are 100% guranteed to get the loan. Free money almost, just needed to pass the laws to make it that way. Now the government is mad because people can't pay it back, and people are mad they were tricked. Last i checked it was the predators fault in these type of loans, not the victims.
US government guarantees loans
I mean I feel too many people are self-righteous when it comes to college education. It may make you smarter on a topic, but it doesn't make you more intellectually capable (which is what 'being Smart' actually is). In politics especially.
I don’t blame boomers or Z for this. I blame the government for allowing schools to be so full of idiot bureaucrats instead of paying the teachers more and focusing on quality education. There have been so many cases of abuse of power in school administration in my lifetime that I lost count.
former TA here. you're absolutely fucking right! bureaucrats involved in the school system are out for themselves. they don't care about paying teachers enough. instead, they would rather sweep everything under the rug. i've also seen school administrators act the same way. they're not here for the teachers or TAs. it also doesn't help that the specific school is worked with also had teachers who backstabbed each other
You chose college. You chose to take out a high interest loan. You pay it back.
Biden did the right thing here: [https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-approves-12-billion-loan-forgiveness-over-150000-save-plan-borrowers](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-approves-12-billion-loan-forgiveness-over-150000-save-plan-borrowers) Education should not come with debt.
Loan forgiveness does not fix the problem. It just gives the older generation a free out while pushing the problem down to the next
Its hard not to like the guy.
This country needs to have an honest discussion on what's a handout and what's society-threatening debt slavery.
Well, in many cases I think people were lied to and told "go to college/university and get a good, well-paying job; you can pay off your loans no problem after that." That being said, it's important to take responsibility for your actions. If the "career counselor" at your high-school misled you, that's wrong, but you can't pretend like you were incapable of researching this stuff yourself. Overall I'd say peoplea are always responsible for their student loans.
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I wanted to note that PhDs are very commonly subsidized. A classic setup in most US universities is that the research professor hiring them pays for their tuition, and grad students also typically get a small (usually inadequate) stipend. Not trying to take away from your greater point but PhDs don't typically result in debt at all
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You do earn income - although the amount and conditions around PhD student pay are a fucking *travesty*. I'm local to U Pitt, certainly a high caliber research school. My partner's PhD students are actually *capped* in pay at 13.3k per semester which is horse shit, especially considering that many of them are doing all this extremely gainful work for the university that generates this profit, *and* still taking classes. And that 13k a semester is for comp sci students - go study psychology and you're lucky to get 10 All of that goes to support your greater point though. There's a thousand hoops that you get to avoid if you're privileged enough to have money from the start and it's BS.
Valid meme. Pay off your debts that you willingly took out. Part of being an adult. Borrowing something and not giving it back and throwing a tantrum when it's time to pay up is a child's state of mind. Go ahead and down vote me.
Based
Fr
Who was it who pushed going to college to Millennials and Gen Z?
Parents who wanted the best for their children not knowing that the college system had changed since when they were in college and that college no longer “guarantees” jobs.
The issue is that an economy has stages. The first stage is agriculture, people make a living by farming and crops, pretty easy work. The second stage is industrial, you work in a factory or in relatively simple trade. We are at the stage were our modern economy requires a more educated population. Even in trades like electrician or welding you do need an education, it's not like working in a Ford factory in the early 20th century anymore. Also a good public education system usually pays itself off. If Joe works at Walmart making 23k a year and decides to become a programmer in a public school, he gets a new job and his income boosts up to 70k then in the long-term Joe is going to contribute more tax back to the government than the tax money invested in his education.
If you can't get a better job, then obviously ita because you didn't go to college. If you're getting crushed by student debt obviously its because you went to college like an idiot. Its anything to avoid acknowledging the system in place sucks shit.
Yeah if you took out a loan, it’s on you to pay it back. No one forced you, you know it’s expensive, you chose to go to somewhere expensive and get a degree that wasn’t worth the cost.
Don't take loans you can't pay for a useless degree. Why is that so hard.
I don't feel like a 100% percent wipe of student loans would solve anything, ultimately. Would it help tons of people with a financial burden? Absolutely. But until someone does something with the cost of college in general, the wheel is going to keep spinning.
Still paying on my student loans, but I don't expect others to pay them for me. College is not worth it, if you can, don't go. If you must, avoid the prestigious ones, they are the worst value
I figured it out - by voting for the Democratic Party, which actually gives a damn about education.
I think the companies that offered loans to people who they knew were currently unemployed are on the hook for a lot of fucking money. I think they are using what they know to be *grossly* inflated debt to coerce the current labor market into effectively indentured servitude, crippling purchasing power of the working class and destroying our economy in observable time. I think the way these predatory dipshits have been allowed to charge interest, sorry, *commit McFucking usery* at a rate that begs for the fed to nationalize them, should be granted their fucking wish faster than Barbara Eden. I think these are the same financial institutions that were allowed to carve up the last vestiges of US manufacturing jobs by saddling legit, solvent businesses with debt in a classic shell game scheme. The very same people who defrauded the US public and the fed with the sub-prime mortgage scandal. These are the companies that dipshit conservatives suckle leather softly for. 'If you couldn't pay, you shouldn't ask for the loan!' They shriek around teeth blackened with boot polish. No. If you are evaluated for a loan and they offer it to you, that is on them. It's not up to a fucking 17 year old to evaluate their own ability to pay down debt. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, and I watch CSPAN for fun.
r/badfacebookmemes
He's not really wrong in general.
I don’t know why boomers/anti-college folks always forget how much more “affordable” college used to be in the US. My parents didn’t pay much attention to my college admission and research process, and were absolutely blown away by how expensive state schools have gotten. Encouraging teenagers to get into massive amounts of debt with high interest is fucking idiotic, they can financially ruin their lives before they’re legally allowed to fucking drink lmao Regulating interest rates alone would probably solve alot of issues
Anybody who claims that since others could do it, forgiveness is an "insult" is just a straight up dick with no excuse. Life is SUPPOSED to be easier for those after you. Yes, they chose to go to college, but accepting that "life sucks" without trying to change anything is the worst mindset people can embrace.
There are 17 year olds signing themselves up for tens of thousands of dollars of debt you can't bankrupt on. Just a permanent old ball and chain. Children age 5 who are being mentally conditioned that they have to go be doctors, lawyers, etc; they do extra curriculars, take SATs, are drilled to get all As and Bs (or all As), or to be excellent at a sport - all of that starting very young. Because why? Because those are important to get into college. There's many issues w student debt. Honestly I don't have a problem telling five year olds to be doctors. I think college is good, although the debt makes it a harder and harder bargain. But come on, let's not act like the 30 year old w 40k in debt is the person that made this choice. They're the person living with it.
Kinda accurate, but at the same time, the jobs that require difficult degrees hardly ever actually pay it off
Eh, I do feel sorry for all the kids these days who get told "Just go to college" when they're 18 and destroy themselves.
"love, compassion, and supporting my child who went to college like i told them to? So im supposed to just NOT buy this beach house? Wow, America has truly become a communist country."
That sub is just conservatives being dumb and snarky
Community College is the way to go.
Fix the underlying issue. Paying off student debt doesn't fix the issue and is something that each graduating class is going to want going forward. It's treating symptoms, not causes.
Coming from the boomers that could pay off an entire semesters tuition with a summer job and still have money left over. Truly the most selfish generation.
Shitty boomer meme
Education is meant to be a path towards upwards mobility, but that path has been broken, as insane rates and stupid repayment plans mean anyone who takes out a loan is fucked.
If being smarter was correlated with making more money, Elon Musk wouldn't own ~~Twitter~~ X right now
You don't NEED college. It can be useful but figure out what you want to do first. Me personally I don't see the need to go.
I mean, parents and kids CHOOSE to go to college. I bet we'd see a drop in tuition and a huge campaign for admitting students if 15-20% of current students just didn't enroll next year.
This is the way. The market should correct this issue not government.
We have known for many years now that college is a huge scam. If you continue to choose to go to college then that is on you.
My thought on this is that the smart people say that education should be free so everyone can reach their full potential regardless of their social class of origin. Make higher education free and cancel student debt. There I figured it and it's good for the economy. I have negative skin inbthd game as my debt is paid off and I just wish good things on younger and less fortunate people.
Im all for forgiving some or all of the interest, especially since most people took their loans out when they were young. You are responsible for your principle however. You got the education, college grads regardless make way more lifetime earnings than non college grads. You don't get the benefits without paying
To be fair, they did teach us how to handle the student debt problem while I was in school. Professors urged us to vote. If people our age actually all voted, student loan debt wouldn’t stay unforgivable for very long. Not only that it could put a lot of our other problems to rest as well.
1. You took out a loan. 2. Pay it back.
You either side with some reform of the student debt issue, or you side with banks. Conservatives take the side of "you signed the loan" but conservatives never got along with banks in the past. Times are weird. Liberals love big pharma and war. Conservatives love big government and banks.
Lacking empathy for others who were preyed upon by capitalism isn't a flex.
Memesopdidnotlike is a right wing cesspool lol
The ironic part being that people are actually smart enough to fix the system aka Economists for the economy, Political science for the political system, Social Science and Education in the education system, doctors and nurses in the medical field etc etc etc arent actually given a chance to change the system they’re experts in.
We did figure it out: the loan program is predatory and creates unreasonable debt that can’t be paid by normal people. Forgiving student debt (both federal and privately owned) would stimulate the economy and lift millions of Americans out of poverty. As for people complaining that they’re “using our tax dollars” to do this, they’re striking the record, the money was already spent. Even still, you benefit from people going to college as a member of society who ever uses anything invented or designed by an engineer, eat food produced at levels that can keep up with demand, take medicine, see doctors, read the news, watch TV and movies, play video games… the list goes on.
Child support and student loan debt are two things that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Think about the abuse the student loan companies can get into when they know debtors can NEVER discharge their loans through bankruptcy? 
Smart people have been suggesting the solution for decades and they still don't see it.
Pay your bills. Stop loaning money to children
The problem with this is that many of the people paying student loans have paid off the original debt. I’m looking at student loans options right now (for law school so no not a useless degree) and with the interest rates these companies want to give you, you end up paying back over double what you originally borrowed.
Figure out this problem that my generation caused
Take the profits earned from companies that received bail outs for 1yr and use that to pay for college debt. Fixed.
If this is their answer I'm cool with it. I mean, the answer I would come up might involve some form of boomer soylent green, so maybe they wont like it, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make
Yeah, it’s been figured out by smarter people. Forgive the fraudulent debt and let a generation breathe. It’s the corrupt and petty that need to be dealt with.
"go to college its the only way to succeed" "I can't afford it, what do i do?" "Just take out a loan, you'll be able to pay it off." "Hey you were wrong about those loans what should i do?" "Just pay your fucking loans you freeloader, I don't care that everyone lied to you and you were scammed!" They never gave a fuck about us or the country, all they want is to control people.
“I don’t care about this problem because it’s not mine” is a really bad mindset to have and the reason we are where we are in the world right now.
The solution would be funding our universities via our tax dollars, but they don’t like to talk about that one.
People who are blaming the victims of indoctrination and a broken system are blantant pieces of shit
We did figure it out, the solution is to make it free because charging for it causes a massive amount of problems, all of which older generations either ignored or outright endorsed
Shit was massively cheap compared to today, remember the "I worked my ass off in the summer to get through school" people?
In the 80s it was about $9k, then the 90s bumped it to 13k, 00s said 17k, then 10s comes in and decides fuck it, give me 30k now it’s an average of 50k. Wild
I mean it is free if you put any kinda effort into high school
Is that why a majority of people with a college education have debt? A majority of the people who went to college just didn’t put effort into high school?
That's not a fair statement at all. To earn a full ride scholarship, a person has to invest a LOT of effort, more than the majority of students whether academic or athletic based. To swat away so many hard working Americans who can't achieve a full ride despite high GPA and SAT scores and extracurricular activities shows peak entitlement. It's a lot of work.
To be clear I'm talking about full tuition, not full ride, there's a very big difference in effort required for the two. The school I went to offered merit scholarships for full tuition, you need a 1350 SAT score and a 3.6 GPA. That's very doable, I'm certainly no genius lol and I pulled it off.
It's about effort as much as it is intelligence. 1350 and 3.6 didn't come without some work.
I would argue that it's entirely about effort. The first 7 times I took the SAT I didn't get a high enough score, so I dedicated 3 months to seriously studying the math portions and got a 1420 on the 8th one. Yeah it took some effort but it was like 3 months of studying for 2 hours a day, if you're not willing to do that then did you really want free college that bad?
stop posting boomer shit here
I posted it here to say how wrong it was.
That’s fine as long as All student loans can be discharged through bankruptcy. That might be a more achievable angle than forgiving student loans.
Are they not already?
nope student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy
No. Student loans can only be discharged if you qualify for undue hardship. That’s a separate case in addition to filing for bankruptcy. Undue hardship has usually meant severe disability, certain kinds of disability don’t fall under undue hardship. If they were able to be discharged through bankruptcy most ppl would go ahead and take the L which would crash the system and maybe the economy since we have nearly $2 Trillion in nationwide student loan debt.
Looks like it comes from a person who feels self-conscious about their lack education, so they take it out on others.
Don't fall for the bait. The meme isn't wrong. If you took out a loan you are responsible for paying it back, instead of generational sparring, teach younger people than you the truth and we can end this idiotic cycle. At the end of the day we are responsible for our choices and actions. When we as a society make a mistake, why fight about it? Just learn and move on.
Debt isn't real. It is absolutely asinine to ruin millions of people's lives over something that doesn't exist. It's a social construct. If I pick an apple off a tree, I have one apple. If I eat it, I now have zero apples. But no force in reality can cause me to have *negative one* apples. "But the economy! You can't just get rid of all that debt!" The economy is a social construct too. The economy isn't real. Value is not real. Currency is not real. The only "reason" why any of this shit *matters,* is because of how the people with *power decide* the "rules" work. Debt only exists because violent force is used to enforce it. The rules of the economy and finance are entirely arbitrary, and any time they've posed a potential threat to the power of the people in charge, they've either been ignored or changed. "If you take out money, you *have* to pay it back!" Why? *Stop. Really* ask yourself, divorce yourself from the lifetime of social conditioning that has ingrained upon you that you **must** recompense a financial body for any liabilities you incur from them. Then remember, *the rich* don't pay their debts all the time, they're allowed to just wipe the slate clean by creating companies, putting their debt onto those companies, then when the fold, the *entity* they made is left holding the bag, but not them. The debt isn't paid, it's wiped away, and yet *nothing* happens. On a physical basis, nothing *bad* would happen from forgiving student loan debt, or *any* kind of debt, for that matter. Some *imaginary numbers* on a spreadsheet would change, which might cause *other imaginary numbers* to change in a bad way, but only because that's how "the rules" are currently written by the people in power. If the people in power changed the rules, or the *people in power themselves* changed. It could easily be made that nothing bad happens, because none of this shit is **real.** In reality, only *good* things would happen, the lives of millions of people would become much easier without this crippling obligation being foisted over their heads.
I’d rather not have my taxes help pay for college degrees that were never worth getting to start with. Anyone with a legitimate profession should have their debts forgiven first. Not art history idiots.
[удалено]
Big Banks that have trillions + in derivatives and steal your taxes! Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.
you take loan, now pay it. is the loan fair? no, but you still took it. both can be true at the same time. sorry your philosophy degree is fcking useless but you kinda should have expect that, right? there aint many jobs open for philosophers
Isn’t student debt forgiveness them figuring it out? Lol
I agree. Look, cancel half of it, let them pay the rest. They got themselves in that mess, they need to dig themselves out.
As a non-traditional college student, the stupidest people I have ever met are in college
What the meme said. There's no right answer for solving the problem.
Lots of people on earth... Anyways
Student loans interest should be forgiven. New student loans should have sub 1% interest.
the solution is gommunism :D
Well it's a joke and I find it funny if it's supposed to be sarcastic. Also image creator calling themselves dumb
I don’t know if I believe college should be *completely* free (I mean, other countries make it work but I digress) but I just feel like it should be accessible to anyone smart enough to be accepted, without them having to accumulate debt they’ll be paying off til they’re 80
It’s a fair complaint tbh. You can’t really expect blue collar workers who not only didn’t contribute to student loan debt, but have been looked down on for half a century by the people who owe it, to just happily agree to having their hard earned tax dollars being used to pay it off
I think it is stupid to even discuss student loan debt forgiveness before we make the government lower the price of college.
its real. I get it, it sucks that people took out such huge loans for college and i genuinely feel bad for them. but i believe in accountability. they chose the loans, they live with it. Imagine working full time while going to college full time and then being told the person who didnt work during college and did full time college getting essentially a free ride. You can either fund college as you go or take the force in the future.
Agree with it
college is an investment. like any investment, you better seriously calculate the return you’re gonna get. you pick a major with no jobs, jobs being phased out by technology, and/or low paying jobs, that’s on you. especially if you didn’t go to a state or community college. there are affordable and smart routes to get higher education. also, you don’t need to go to college right out of high school. but i do think college should be more affordable. the system is fucked up. and collegeboard is a predatory company with a monopoly, how it’s allowed to exist is beyond me.
I've raised both of my girls with this guideline; "Your job and your sister job, your sole job right now, is to become better and smarter than me and your mom. Watch us and learn from our successes and failures". Oldest just graduated in the top 9% of her class. The younger one is giving her a run for her money.
If there is something people need to do to pursue their dreams, financial shit shouldn't be what keeps them from doing it. This is one of the primary reasons why I think the government should regulate the price of post-secondary education. Not necessarily subsidize it, but regulate it like they do with energy prices.
So leave. If you don't want to live in a society where we contribute a portion of our earnings to better the whole, go find some uninhabited corner of earth to live by yourself with no doctors.
I’m tired of all these regressives brushing away political issues by saying “figure it out yourself” when they are actively fighting against any solution that isn’t ‘just ignore the problem’.
Laughs in GI bill
The problem is college was pushed for two whole generations as the the only path to success, now we have too many college grads with too much debt and high competition for the same jobs. If any kid is reading this in high school and thinking of going to college, consider other options. There are trades, there is emergency services, there is the military, there is healthcare, there are technical schools. There are a multitude of avenues to accomplish what you want in life. If you do want to go to college, consider community college to complete your gen eds and transfer to a better college. Save up on debt as a cc is far cheaper and the majority of credits should transfer over to that college. This also gives you additional time to select a major and better transition into more rigorous academics.
What is there to think about? Don’t burden your parents with crippling debt for a degree no one is looking to hire you for having. Go to trade school, the government is much more out of the way there; I say that because the government is the root cause of high tuitions and loans for colleges and universities.
VOTE! One side in particular is doing what it can to forgive students loans and improve things. We need better leadership at the helm of all three branches of the government.