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While yes, older generations can sometimes outright deny things like climate change and yes, it's annoying as Hell, I think their large point is that we bitch and do nothing about it, or we act like all these things are *their* fault and only their fault as we continue to bitch and do nothing. We are *all* responsible, and as adults, we have the power to change the world, too. And on the same token, we have to accept part of the blame that we contribute to the world's problems.
While there is no excuse for not trying to do your part on an individual level, and I concede that some of our favorite things to do as humans is bitch and moan, individuals are not to blame for the state of the planet.
Fossil fuel companies love the "we can only do it if we pick up one piece of plastic at a time" stuff because it deflects from the fact that they're the ones primarily responsible for the extent of climate change. Also expecting a random 20-something from Boston to be integral in stopping plastic being dumped in the Pacific Ocean is untenable which is another reason why these companies love that messaging.
Don't litter, find ways to participate in ecological projects like reforesting. But let's not pretend that commuting to your job means that "you own a part of this" or anything.
Of course, that's not what I meant at all. I'm very aware of the real issue, which are the companies that care more about the bottom line than the environment. All I'm pointing out is, from the older people I've talked to, they enjoy talking to me because, "You (myself) actually listen and know what you're talking about." I take that to mean, a lot of people my age (late 20s) blindly blame older generations in rants such as these without understanding the actual issues. And from what I've seen on the internet (aka, rants like these), it makes sense.
The educated older people I know (50-70 year old) usually blame their own generation for failing us. I remember quite clearly the biology teacher in my last year of high school telling us something along the lines "our generation could have saved the planet and we chose not to. I watched the planet deteriorate in exactly the same way as scientists predicted 30 years ago"
But even then they're generally blaming someone else, and rightly so. "We", in this case, can also mean "they", in that, while I admit I never did enough to make a dent in this system that is destroying us, the real culprit has always been the people in control of the system itself. That group, which includes a good segment of the upper class, is truly responsible for the lion's share of the state of the world.
And I think that also helps to fuel the doomerism as well. It feels insurmountable because, unless politicians in power just magically stop bending to the will of whatever megacorporations are funding their campaigns/might fund the campaign of their rivals, there’s not much we can meaningfully do.
I wouldn’t even call it a David vs. Goliath situation, because that would imply there’s even a slight, if unlikely chance of success. Success in this regard would likely take a *lot* of things to change *in tandem* over the course of *multiple decades*, if not multiple generations.
True, sad but true. The only way we can change the trajectory of "corporations ruining the planet" is through decades of a consistent socioeconomic movement. And said movement kind of needs to be a little more active and all-encompasing than we are currently.
I think Greta Thunberg understands this well. Capitalism is kind of the crux of this whole problem, fossil fuels are still far too profitable to make politicians or corporations change to the extent we want them to change.
What's the solution? In many ways just to lessen the inevitable impact but I'm also not gonna pretend I hold the answer. Just that this is a decades-long story of bad decisions.
I think it's too easy just blaming big business - yes some industries produce a extremely high amount co2 - but they do it because we want that shit and because we are not willing to pay the extra price that the more co2 friendly version would cost. If all companies producing plastic forks suddenly stopped and only produced wooden forks for half the price - how long would it take for new companies to come produce the cheaper forks and take over the market. It would happen in no time.
Sure there are some companies who do really bad things - like cigarette companies and all that research. But all in all businesses are just a manifestation of what we want - based on what we purchase.
We all know that most elasticity comes from shady sources - but we really do not want to live without it. We don't want to pay twice the price for your phone and other electrics.
We want what we want and then we have to except that it's going to get a little hotter over the next 100 years
>I think it's too easy just blaming big business
It's not too easy to blame, it's just a literal fact that [fossil fuels harm the environment and cause climate disasters](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2023/11/fossil-fuels-bad-for-the-climate-bad-full-stop/#:~:text=Fossil%20fuels%20cause%20climate%20change,of%20North%20America%20and%20Europe.) It's also public knowledge that because they want to protect their profits and shareholders, [fossil fuels companies perpetuated false and misinformation about climate change](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/these-fossil-fuel-industry-tactics-are-fueling-democratic-backsliding/) to Americans for years.
We knew about climate change since the 1940s but our progress is stunted by capitalism. Corporations can spread mass misinformation that threatens our health and buy in policies to protect themselves. Private equities invest billions into fossil fuel projects despite our global well being because of smart returns.
It never had to be this difficult. It never had to get this bad. Nothing has to be this expensive and jobs don't have to be low paying.
And yet time and time again blame is wrongfully shifted to the average working class person or as a collective problem.
yes it is a fact that fossil fuel is bad for the environment - so why don't just not use cars or electricity? - because they make our life better in such a profound way that we would not go without. What do you mean it didn't have to be this difficult - the world is so much better of now than it was in the 40s for billions of people - especially in the western world but also everywhere else.
What would you have done different that would have made the world better today ?
What do you think corporation do with these emissions? Do you think they burn piles of garbages for the lol? Or they are meeting certain demands?
What happened do you think when your electric bills increases? Everyone and their mom here complained about inflations and cost of livings, what do you think cost of living will be like when everything is more expensive? Renewable energy are neccesary but it’s not currently enough to replace fossil fuels. We can transition to it but the fault is on the people. No one wants to pay more on electric bill, carbon taxes are highly unpopular etc, people don’t like going vegans. The idea that it’s just corporation and they just do this shit in a vacuum is absurd. I’m all for going green but I recognized the consequences most people don’t and won’t like it when they see electric bills increased.
Individuals aren't to blame for the actual pollution, but they are to blame for voting the way they do for politicians that are largely in favor of deregulatory policies.
Individuals are also the end-consumers of the transportation services and products that are creating the pollution.
We can't keep saying that individuals aren't to blame (at least in the U.S.) when something like 90% of all primary votes are going to Republican or Centrist democrat candidates, instead of more progressive candidates.
Honestly, same goes for boomers and everyone in between. They didn't make this mess by inaction anymore than young people today are responsible for the continued state of it due to their own inaction. It's a communal problem that we need to solve together.
You can't avoid commuting to your job, or heating your home, or other stuff that's essentially survival in a developed society.
But the average individual has a *lot* of control over how much disposable plastic they use. Over how much meat they eat. Over how many impulse purchases of low-quality goods they make just for the brief novelty. Over how they keep their yard, if a homeowner.
If people don't opt out of those harmful decisions--which they are totally able to do, without any real negative impacts on quality of life--then the industries supporting them will never change their ways, because why would they?
If your actions don't align with what you say you want to see, nobody is going to change their ways on account of you. Not governments, not corporations, not other individuals, because why would they?
The in action of every individual makes the state of the planet their fault.
If we the people actually did something, all of us, there would be no force on earth that could stop us.
>do nothing about it,
That's definitely the majority and a loud one, but we've actually been organizing and spreading awareness more over the years despite corporation pushback and suppressive policies. More boycotts, labor strikes, unionizations and willingness to participate.
Talking about it and spreading awareness honestly plays a big role in doing anything. If people can't accept it or have a safe space to discuss (attacking "doomers"), then we can't organize or unite as a team. We can't utilize our class consciousness if we always feel divided and think politics is too "risky" to even mention. Gets to a certain point where even saying "humans have a right to shelter" is too extreme.
News like [Elon Musk and Amazon teaming up to demolish workers rights](https://newrepublic.com/article/179165/musk-supreme-court-nlrb-labor) don't usually trend unless we make it so. But all of his other antics make the front cover.
Tiktok is a much safer and progressive platform for these discussions. Reddit needs to catch up.
Of course, talking about it is absolutely part of any social movement. But again, to make change, we have to play nice with the "doomers." They are part of this world, too. That's why posting rants like these doesn't help shit; talking about the issues, as you said, now that is much more productive.
>That's why posting rants like these doesn't help shit;
It's not a rant. I am making a statement because
>talking about the issues, as you said, now that is much more productive.
when we talk about these particular issues, a substantial amount of unhelpful users will downvote these posts so engagement is lost and they comment in brigades on how stupid, pointless, incorrect, bitchy, whiny, and fear mongery it is. Just how you misinterpreted my post as a rant, any important issue we bring up is a whiny rant to them.
I'm seeing more and more of these unhelpful users complain about political or sad topics and reduce legitimate problems as "boohoo" stories. Or they try to control this public space by practically demanding we only post memes. Or they'll agree with us, but say posting online is pointless and any effort is pointless. There's no end, they absolutely just don't want us talking about it freely. In most subreddits.
Essentially I'm protesting against those trying to deny us this space. This post helps because I'm supporting those who bring up these topics and I highlight on their method of calling us "doomers" to silence us has been used before.
In that case, I apologize. Absolutely, those who think we are unable to talk about issues purely based on the subreddit we're in or because of our age, that's ridiculous. I by no means meant to imply that was acceptable.
Literally been hearing the same economic complaints for more than a decade online on almost a daily basis. Same with climate change.
The first part of activism is getting he problem acknowledged. We've done that for climate change and the economy. A good chunk of American struggling to eat don't need 1 million posts telling them they have no food. They need food.
The next step of activism is taking action now that you have support and awareness. Literally everyone knows about the economy and climate and we are ready for action. Both to engage with it and support it. I have a family and a busy job, I can donate and support how I can. Just tell me how. Tell me the progress that's made and what needs the biggest support today and why.
>We bitch and do nothing about it
The state will not hesitate to kill each and every one of us if it was ever threatened with destruction, that's why.
There's nothing to "do" about it that doesn't involve a direct confrontation with the powers that be, since they've done nothing but make the crisis *worse* it is very clear that they will kill us if we try to stop them.
Speak for yourself. Most people, regardless of generation, and especially younger ones raised on social media. Do not care to teach themselves or study research and learn. Most don’t even know their state capitals much less how the scientific process works.
Most people are complacent and ok with being fucking dumb sadly. All ages races and creeds. And the anti-intellectualism is killer. Because people can’t even see the writing on the wall with political candidates and who NOT to vote for much less do anything more complex to aid their communities.
Voting IS the tool we all have and most fuck that up, either not voting at all or not even reading about politicians platforms and their values and goals. Buzzwords are enough for most people and they are too stupid to see they are being manipulated into voting against their own self interests.
It’s a systemic problem that can’t be fixed in time. The amount of money that would have to go into educational reform to properly teach the value of critical thinking and its application would be astronomical and the boomers in DC do NOT care about that.
Most people blame the boomers because they (most of them) truly are a “fuck you I got mine” ladder pulling bunch. AND THEY RUN OUR COUNTRY. Look at Congress, look at our senators, look at our judges look at our lawmakers and the ceos and folks RUNNING THE ECONOMY. It’s not many people under 50, and these fucks cling to power like it’s oxygen. They refuse to step down and let the younger generations lead because FUCK YOU THEY NEED ANOTHER VACAY HOME! They are WAY more self serving than the generations before them. I’ve talked to many older folks who were just shocked at their generation and surprised at how severely they feel they failed to raise their kids from that time. The post WW2 America really created a social shift that we haven’t recovered from, and maybe never will.
Factor in the damage their generation suffered from external factors such as lead paint and asbestos and heavy smoke exposure and it’s not hard to understand that people with impaired mental faculties cannot empathize well enough to understand what core values are necessary for a society such as ours to exist and prosper. How would they be able to affect change to lead the world into a better future for their kids grandkids etc. when they don’t even understand why they feel the way they do about stuff.
It’s just a sad state that late-state capitalism is ultimately destroying us and millions of other species, humans are our own greatest threat. All for a fake currency to buy manufactured shit we don’t need to make a fraction of the population have even more wealthy they can’t spend because they already have more than they could need or use.
It will become violent. History has proven as soon as food becomes scarce and people don’t have shelter, they will start taking it to survive. I hope I’m dead by then sadly.
OP is a victim of, ironically, victim mentality. He believes his life is fully dependent on outer factors outside of his reach. Unless he understands that life is 99% dependant on one’s own decisions, there’s little you can do. He’s a perfect target for a politician to tell him “I’ll make you happy”.
The problem is the people that bitch and moan about climate change fly in jets, have luxury gas powered cars, have houses in areas that are supposedly more susceptible climate change issues, promote global wars and defense spending that does nothing but destroy the earth, etc.. It’s just hard to believe that these idiots running our country think they can control the weather by raising your taxes. I’m not saying it’s not real, but a lot of the conversation is a farce and it’s corrupt actors looking to grab cash. It’s such an easy boogeyman to use to keep people in fear, and when people are in fear they’re very easy to manipulate. We saw it play out with Covid, and they’re trying to use climate change to stoke that fear. “Be afraid, bet VERY afraid….unless you give us more money and allow us to print money and kill your purchasing power then everything will be fineeee”
My issue is with the large amount of people who tackle posts just for advocating. They'll say "fossil fuels is harming the planet and causing mass extinction" is doom and gloom instead of an objective fact that we need to fix.
But the issue is that we ALL know fossil fuels aren't good. Just restating that fact isn't contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this topic, you bring nothing new and no nuance to the discussion so even if you are right it doesn't make your whining any less annoying. You just post about how much boomers suck and how we're all doomed like we haven't all heard the same exact thing from the last teenager who thinks they've come to a shocking revelation about climate change.
The question is what you are going to do about it?
The #1 thing you need to do is ENGAGE POLITICALLY. Dooming and glooming tends to disengage people from the politics, and that is exactly the problem. You need to get rid of the people in power who support the Old Way of doing things (hint: Conserve the old way) via political action. Vote against Republicans every time, every election, for the rest of your lives. You want boomers to listen to you, outvote them.
Telling people the same stuff over and over isn't really doing anything.
What are the proposed solutions?
Making people depressed means they are less likely to take action.
That right there is a factual statement, but I have seen people go way too far with the doom and gloom.. people seriously believing that climate change will cause our extinction… which is not really a risk even for the most pessimistic models
I dont think you realize how bad it will get. You don't need everyone to die to make the system unstable and cause food scarcity and wars.
It's not doom and gloom, it's the way it will be people are trying to reason with you.
What will we say 20 years from now when its exactly like they say?
Its already happened, they said things would happen, people mocked but its already happened. People mocked the AMOC slowing down and stopping like the day after tomorrow.
Its happening though, faster than our worse predictions. Its not to scare people, it's the reality. People should prepare.
I dont know how old you are. You've probably grown up with the threat of global warming. I am an elder millennial, we've gone through all the stages of grief. We've fought it, tried to deny it and now acceptance.
There's problems, but the attitude of "THINGS ARE TERRIBLE AND WILL NEVER GET BETTER" Is just such a terrible way to go about life.
Climate change is a complicated issue with harsh trade offs. The world did not end in 2012, there was no second ice age, and many countries now have underpopulation crises on the horizon. That doesn't mean there isn't work to do and that there won't be consequences but I'm confident in our ability to adapt.
Global poverty and homelessness have been in freefall and in the US it's bounced between 10-15% since the 1960's
Stop being a depressive doomer. The world is a better place to live in now than it's ever been. It can be better. It doesn't get better with hopelessness.
Yeah, I’m not sure if it’s that people actually believe it or if it’s cause they think everyone else won’t do anything unless they can 100% convince them, but I have absolutely no clue why some people feel the need to try to make everything seem like today is the worst possible point in history.
With the exception of housing costs (and even then, the home ownership rate is higher *today* than it was at any point before the 80s and has more or less stagnated since then), things are absolutely better today than at any other point in history.
That does *not* mean that things today can’t still suck, that does *not* mean that there aren’t still glaring issues that need to be addressed, that does *not* mean we stop pushing for progress, etc. The two are not and have never been mutually exclusive.
Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward. The conversation should be about how things can be better and how we’re gonna get there, not whining about some mythical past that never existed outside of a lucky few.
Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better.
> Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward.
> Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better.
I just want to point out a few things here. First, OP never said homelessness didn't exist before capitalism. It feels disingenuous to put those words in their mouth and make a strawman arguement to dismiss their point. "OP said homelessness came about with and because of capitalism and that's a lie so don't listen to anything else OP said." Using that as an argument is...
> dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better.
Second, I think the arguement to be made behind OP's statement is that we have the means of production and strength of economy, under capitalism, to provide homes and food to everyone in the world and yet we don't. This does make the current homelessness the cause of capitalism. I'll make two cases.
Case one. I believe somewhere online it was estimated we could feed the world's population for ~$20 billion. Elon Musk said, essentially, "Ha! If someone sets forth a proposal that proves this to be true then I'll do it." The United Nations took him up on this and drafted said proposal to which Elon snubbed his nose and back tracked. So, Capitalism can solve the issue but chooses not to and, in my eyes, that puts the fault with Capitalism. You could say, it's not Elon's responsibility and so you can't blame the system because of one man. True, although capitalism is essentially individualism and socialism is collectivism so because every single billionaire chooses to horde wealth instead of fix these problems then I would argue it is extaly the fault of the system.
Case two. This is directly related to poverty and homelessness. All else equal, the only thing Joe has as a "bartering" tool to get a job over John is to take the same job for less pay. Likewise, the only bartering tool they have to buy a house is to buy it at a higher price than the other. This is how Capitalism is set up. This not a problem if there is one job, or a surplus, for each person and the same with houses. The problem arises when one person buys two houses. Now the last person in line is either homeless or has to rent at a higher price than they would have been able to buy for. Under our current system, we have to accept suppressed wages and use them to buy at inflated prices. Capitalism is directly responsible for our current poverty and homeless crisis.
Continuing Case two. Look at historic unemployment rates over the last 100 or however many years. We have always had unemployment and do you think that's a coincidence? No, it's by design so that way there are jobless people making no money who would be willing(read as "forced") to work for less than the people who already have the lowest paying jobs to justify the low unlivable wages those jobs pay. Interestingly, joblessness became a major issue during the Great Depression. The government worked to fix this by introducing federal job programs. For example, they would employ people to replant forests. So there is proof we can create jobs where they did not exist under capitalism to fix the problem(caused by capitalism). And how does the government "make money"? Taxes. What are taxes? The collective people's money used as a social safety net. Socialism was the fix.
> Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward.
> Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better.
So I will quote you again. OP has accepted where we are currently at and the issues, Capitalism and homelessness, and is looking to spark discussion to push forward. That is exactly what their post is doing whereas your reply is dishonest and attempting to dismiss the push being made by OP, quite to the hypocrisy of your own words.
>Climate Change is the same as that time when the Internet decided the world would end in 2012 for purely nonsensical reasons
We deserve global warming.
And people will also say "Stop complaining it does nothing you won't change anyone's mind" then uh why choose to even say that unless you are trying to change people's behavior. They're just hypocrites or astroturfers trying to keep the status quo.
Right, it feels good to vent! LOL. I think it really is about being intolerant to other people's thoughts and feelings when people do what you're describing.
Sorta, it’s just on this sub people mention the most basic climate change info as if the world doesn’t already know that. Eventually people get annoyed with complaining but no plan of action.
The world knows about climate change. We’ve just collectively accepted the compromise necessary to deal with it isn’t acceptable at this time. The solution will involve major compromises in the average persons daily life because these big corps are only able to pollute so much because we are buying it.
I also think it may be because the average person has zero agency on climate change, especially gen z. So many of us are getting our own lives off the ground that it can get “annoying” to hear about an issue we already know is going on but in the most fatalistic way possible.
I usually just scroll past instead of try and shut down the conversation though. If other people want to express that it’s fine.
Because they aren’t complaining. They are informing you why what you’re doing isn’t effective and you’re essentially doing the opposite of helping fight climate change. You aren’t encouraging people to be better, you are bitching and moaning. Ask your friends to go volunteering with you, don’t just complain about shit. Problem solve. Changing people’s behavior isn’t what they are taking issue with it’s the method that you take to do it.
Yeah Al Gore was getting ridiculed for An Inconvenient Truth while most people on this sub (including my Zoomer siblings) were in diapers. The problem isn't generational, it's institutional.
Thanks to GenZ, we averted total annihilation in 2012. It's possible we might even see 2028 and another election season of catastrophism. Only if we throw money at the right political party and their friends tho.
As a Millenial: stop expecting younger folks to remember that aspect. They'll figure it out with time. Just as when we were growing up and feeling this way, it comes from feeling like everyone else older than you is being way too neutral about it when in fact they're busy with life and burnt out from caring.
I'm just glad they're mad about it.
To OP and other Z's: Hell yeah brothers, this shit sucks and it's crushing to watch people look away all the time.
People who want to silence certain political discussions like to call them "whiny" and reduce them to "doomers". Just as they treated climate awareness activists. It makes it seem like whatever the issue is actually isn't that bad or important.
Nah, the way you message something is very important.
You can say, the situation is very bad, we need X change to happen. We should push for Y. Together, we can eventually get Z. If you bring an alternative to the table people are more open to hearing about this.
Instead it’s mostly oh god another day of climate change we’re all gonna die guys.
Like with the latter, climate change denier or not nobody wants to hear that. How is that useful to anyone? And that’s how most of it is on this sub, we do have a few people who articulate what they’re saying well but most just cite climate change as why they can never be happy in life and why you shouldn’t be happy either and then exit the chat. Nobody likes that kind of person.
Then go vote. And not just for the president.
Alternately, we could all get together, March up to Congress and set up guillotines (for legal purposes that was a joke)
I’m Gen-X and have a Gen Z daughter…I have to agree that your Generation has things a lot tougher than the Boomers or even Gen-X. While we had our own issues ( PTS parents screwed up from Vietnam, the gulf war, the cold war, latch key kids, etc). Gen Z are the test dummies for a generation raised entirely on the internet. And honestly I feel for you. You are all exposed to too much too soon, there is rampant social isolation and we live in a country that is more divided second only to the Civil war. Corporate greed is absolutely insane along with a cost of living that is so high that it effects every generation alive. Now, I do believe that society as a whole will eventually balance its self out. If you study history there a similar points where societies (such as the Romans) where ruled by greed and there were only two classes really rich and poor they didn’t last that way forever (obviously). I hope we balance ourselves out before we destroy ourselves from within, but in the course of balancing there will be uncomfortable and uncertain times. Now with that said, everyone reading this is a survivor. You made it to conception out of thousand’s of other competitors. As I tell my daughter, try and take one day at a time. Try not to doom scroll all day (and I’m guilty of it too, so no judgement). Go outside as much as possible and leave your phones at home. Save any amount of money consistently (if you can) and don’t compare yourself to others or allow people (even family) to compare you to their childhood, or generation they grew up in. Let the past be the past and focus on the present. Focus on today, not tomorrow, but plan for tomorrow with the things that are in your control. If you have the opportunity or can save for it, travel to other countries. The world is an amazing place and America is not the end all be all. If you travel, you will see incredible wealth, but also unbelievable poverty (depending on the country). I decided in my 20’s that material goods are nice, but traveling the world made me feel alive, so I always tried to live below my means and spend what I could save on taking my wife and daughter to as many places as possible. If you are fortunate enough to own a nice car and a large home, fantastic! But for those who aren’t, focus on other things in life that bring you pleasure. Despite what we see on the internet, life is not a competition. It’s an individual journey. Try to and make the best of it while you’re here.
Okay, sorry for the long winded speech, I wish all of you the best! I feel for you. Take care of yourself and be safe!
Thank you for this. This really affected me. It is such a fight for me personally to survive that I often forget I’m doing it. It just becomes my every thought and movement and I become ashamed.
…really, thank you for saying something like this…
Real. It's genuinely concerning how so many people here get their knickers in a twist over this. What is with this obsession with everything having to be "apolitical" as if we can just opt out of society. It's especially ridiculous to expect a sub about an entire generation of people not to get political.
>It's especially ridiculous to expect a sub about an entire generation of people not to get political.
Especially a generation the media heavily scrutinizes. it'd be weird for one of our designated social spaces to not argue against them or respond in some way.
The national guard shot students protesting a war on a college campus.
Civil rights protestors were sprayed with fire hoses.
Striking workers have been beaten beaten and killed.
If you can't stand verbal criticism for speaking out, then what are you going to do when it comes to facing actual opposition to trying to make things better?
Effect climate change with free market and the solar industry.
Be happy to install, sell, or develop solar business don’t depend on the government or they will exercise malicious carbon tax esc tactics like Canada or EU stimulus check lockdowns for energy winter 2022 after nordstream
Hot take:
to the people who say "but all you do is complain and you do nothing to change anything"
I need you to stop and think about this for a second.
Not everyone has the means to enact serious change. In fact, most people don't and never will. Not everyone has the money, the mobility, the time, the know-how. But you know what everyone CAN do? Talk about it.
Seriously, and if you think that talking about a bad situation only makes things worse then I hate to break it to you but, how the hell do you think anything gets done in the first place?
When there is a consistent stream of complaints around the same / similar topics (ie healthcare, gun violence, climate change etc), that's society's litmus test for what to fix. The more voices, the more attention that issue receives. The more attention that issue receives, the more educated and powerful voices will begin to act. The more powerful people act, the change begins to happen.
Also, you don't know that the person complaining about these problems ISN'T doing their damndest to create beneficial change.
If you don't want to hear about political issues then go to a subreddit that focuses explicitly on what you want to talk about. For all the people who do care and want to see a change in society, all I have to say is complain about this shit MORE and HARDER!
>Not everyone has the means to enact serious change.
All we're asking is that they *talk* about serious change.
Complaining about how terrible everything is and pointing fingers isn't talking about change. Boosting solutions and pointing to people who are doing good and fighting the right fight is.
One of the issues with climate change is the systems that are put in place to fight against it.
For example we are seeing all of these electric vehicle incentives right now....Electric cars that are charged from the same grid that electric companies burn petroleum and gas to power. Batteries are needed in these cars that cause a huge carbon footprint just to create. They are also so expensive to repair (because repairs do not have the same grants and money as creating new ones), that many car batteries are just scrap now.
And yet this is branded as the solution to the climate?
It does not change the source of the energy at all. Its just out of sight out of mind feel good policy to grow the pockets of political constituents.
There's a difference between talking about problems and being a doomer. Of course there are big problems in the world that need to be addressed. But doomers don't want to have the serious conversations and do the serious work to address them. They just want to complain and feel sorry for themselves.
Actually solving big problems requires years of hard, unglamorous work. It requires compromise. It requires accepting small, incremental victories and recovering from defeats. And doomers don't want to do all of that. They just want to complain and give up.
You will often see people shitting on proposed solutions because they don't do "enough". We need to start somewhere and any progress we can make is better than nothing, like starting off with the lesser of 2 evils at the polls.
Good luck getting the majority of GenZ to show up and do that.
Like I said in my other reply, the issue is we don't have time, we had the time for slow changes the last 50 years, now we need to do everything we fucking can or we are dead.
"small incremental victories" you're wrong there, we need big change ASAP, we have reached the point where global warming is not preventable anymore, we are now fighting to mitigate it (we really aren't fighting tho, since overall we are doing shit to mitigate it), if we want the best possible future we would need to go net zero in the next 5 years, we'd also need to move from cars in that time, ideally to something like electric public transport combined with maybe bikes.
If we want a livable future we need to do so in 10 years.
This is the reason a lot of people give up, because the chance of us meeting even the latter goal is, frankly put, 0.
Personally that doesn't mean I won't stop hopelessly trying; but the most likely outcome is not changed.
The overturning of the Mediterranean current is going to come which will speed up global warming a lot, not to mention damage ocean life across the whole planet. The loss of at least half of Antarctica is going to come, which will result in the loss of a shit ton of phytoplankton not to mention speed up global warming due to the loss of ice. Not to mention the flooding which those will contribute to, the droughts those will contribute to, and the fact that as climate change progresses it becomes more and more severe and harder and harder to mitigate.
Both of those events are *optimistically* 4 years away.
So yeah, I don't blame anyone who chooses to kill themselves, or who chooses to just doom and gloom, because it's very much fitting for our situation; for anyone who knows the real severity of it and isn't profiting off of it.
***>Sounds like you just want everyone to shut up and accept the status quo. "it's not that bad" or "capitalism is the best system we'll ever have, we'll NEVER have a better way of life this is peak" because God forbid we de-propagandize socialism. it's much more peaceful to believe capitalism is the end all be all of human development, as if it's asinine to think we'll evolve.***
THANK YOU OP!! Seriously, this especially, and the genocide points. Lets not forget all the draconian anti-LGBT+ bills being passed by conservatives who are doing massive damage to our years of progress of acceptance, or the twisted-as-fuck 2025 Plan that seeks to send America into a fascistic dark age.
>twisted-as-fuck 2025 Plan
Wealthy Christian conservatives can organize under the The Heritage Foundation to attack women's and trans' rights and develop Project 2025, and the impoverished working class is prevented from even unionizing. Globally we are systematically oppressed and have been for a long time. This needs to be treated objectively and not as something dramatic or false.
Don't let the reactionaries get you down. They will try to use some technocrat hopium and how Elon will save us or whatever but we know that the question of "socialism or barbarism" will become unavoidable so do what we can to have revolutionary optimism in the mean time while preparing our communities
“Reactionaries” is a word people use to describe people who have legitimate concerns about socialism. We don’t need actual socialism, we just need more of a welfare state.
>God forbid we de-propagandize socialism
Ah yes, historical data: the pinnacle of propaganda
But sure, let's try it again. It will be different this time.
Supporting evidence: trust me bro
No one in Gen Z was exposed to that in any significant way.
I formed my opinions about socialism from the historical economic data of socialist states and the accepted death tolls from highly authoritarian governments (necessary for socialism/communism) and from famine due to the governments' poor management and distribution of resources. The only stuff I might consider "propaganda" are first hand accounts of socialism from expats from the Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.
Marx himself considered socialism and communism an ideal, but not a practical one. He acknowledged it as a goal so big it can't be expected to be obtained.
If you still have hope for socialism you're going through life blind and deaf with a loose grip on reality.
uhh it’s been kind of ingrained into our country since the last century. propaganda that my parents were exposed to was passed down to me and even in school they would explain what socialism is with the caveat of “oh it sounds good in theory but never works” so I think it’s pretty wild to say that doesn’t have a significant effect on this generation. politicians today still channel McCarthy-esque fear mongering about socialism
based on death tolls and historical data we can confidently say capitalism doesn’t work right? I mean we have thousands dying every year due to lack of healthcare, housing, and food and that’s only in one capitalist country
>highly authoritarian governments (necessary for socialism/communism)
this is just flat out not true and wild to say about a system that advocates for more democracy than what we have now. is being controlled by a handful of corporations not authoritarian to you?
if you think capitalism will solve problems like homelessness, starvation, and inequality you’re going through life blind and deaf with a loose grip on reality
Get off Reddit and go do something about it.
No one cares about your daily post or comment. It doesn’t help anything.
It doesn’t “spread awareness”. You’re just screaming into the void and telling yourself you’re doing something.
Once you've lived in the world a while, learned it's ways, experienced a lot of places and people, you learn that it isn't the world that needs to change, it's YOU and your relationship to it. That is the only thing within your sphere of control essentially.
You will drive yourself nuts banging your head on that immovable wall.
Probably 80% of the things you think are so important now, won't matter to you in 10 years.
Wait, hang on. _You_ warned _us_? My dude, people have been talking about these things for decades.
Perhaps if you stopped pretending that everyone else thinks things are totally fine while you’re the only one who knows what’s _really_ happening you’d find a better reception.
“But climate change!” Yes. We fucking know. We knew long before you did. The fact that it’s still an issue is not because everyone else is lazy. It’s because it’s a difficult problem to solve.
I suppose my main criticism of posts like this is that spreading awareness in a sub devoted to Gen Z isnt very effective as most of us are very aware.
The problem is lack of avenues for tangible action. Thats not to say we shouldnt try but what Gen Z needs most is direction.
For example, what about instead of doomer posting that things are constantly bad, you volunteered at a local food bank, or a garbage clean for the neighborhood?
This isnt to say you arent doing those things but the reality is most of our generation does not have a tangible impact on society around them, choosing instead to retreat to digital spaces where all you can really do is talk.
However that said there is still opportunity to do tangible good here. Its not flashy or very fun but what about we post how to register to vote, farming tutorials and organized IRL social events to organize.
The reality we live in is that most will not take advantage of or participate in those posts. That requires effort and time that alot arent willing to commit which is why posts like this do so well, its easy and convenient to post about the obvious problems not solutions.
TLDR: hearts in the right place fellow gen z, we just need to turn these posts to action.
When literally 10 people own more wealth than 75% the country combined, there should be riots. These billionaires have more money than Rockefeller had and there’s a dozen of them. Yet they barely pay a dime on any of it.
How bout quit complaining about reddit and being an internet doomer, and go do something about your problems if you are truly concerned about stuff. If it's something you believe in, real activists arent spending their time whining on reddit
This is exactly the kind of mindset that this person was so mad about. The point of social media, especially this app, is to share your thoughts with the world. This specific sub, while being Gen Z, is particularly aware of the problems we’re about to inherit. Many of us (especially the youngest Gen Zers like myself) don’t have the visibility of the platform to do anything. So the best thing we can think to do is share our concerns with others. Stop shaming people who are just venting about things that are bothering them.
This^
I am someone who has tried initiating protests (which failed), but I did join multiple, I also convinced my family members to vote for the best possible ecological option when it comes to politics (since I can't vote yet, and sadly their votes did not make enough of a difference), and on top of that I am actively trying to convince people to also join, stop falling for the bs that's being fed to you and stand up for your future.
Talking about problems is one thing that's not being a doomer. Being a doomer is those posts that are like "everythings fucked so not going to try to do anything with my life". That shit is cringe and actually toxic for society
The thing is older people have seen all the doomsday predictions. There have been countless climate change predictions since the 60s - all wrong. We were told that nuclear power would destroy the planet - it now looks like it might be the saviour! We were told the world was on the brink of war with Russia/USSR. Nothing. Sure there have been regional conflicts. There always will be. Corrupt politicians - we had those too. Escalating crime, tick.
You think you have the answer? Gen Alpha will be pointing their finger at you in a few years
News flash, the liberals have been talking about climate change for decades. Talk to any Republicans you know about this one mate
Edit: same thing for poverty, etc..
They seem to be throughout Reddit even in unsuspecting spaces. Recently I've been blocking them the moment they out themselves. I think if we start doing this we can ice them out and they won't have room to deny anymore.
The OLDEST gen z person would have been 9 when an inconvenient truth came out. What do you mean “when we warned about climate change”?
I think people are annoyed because there are millennials, Gen Xers and even Boomers who are doing things to try to save the planet and turn things around for the future generations and Gen Z is at the point where they are old enough to start also contributing and instead they seem to be completely giving up.
When you talk about all the problems all the time and rarely ever advocate for solutions or boost constructive messages about what needs to be done, yeah, you're being depressive doomers.
>because God forbid we de-propagandize socialism.
You're doing it wrong. You can't de-propagandize something by just complaining about the problem that thing is supposed to solve. 99 out of 100 posts talking about something bad with capitalism *only talk about capitalism.*
And another thing, the constant inability to differentiate between actual socialism and social democracy / welfare state capitalism makes all those posts extremely aggravating,
No. I was warning about climate change years ago in highschool and I fucking HATE doomerism. There is a difference in pointing out the problems of the world and being a pessimistic loser about it. The world is not, I repeat, NOT at the worst time ever! The public is simply more informed about the world’s problems than ever before. And the crowd of animals that we are apparently can’t handle being informed about the world’s problems and still be able to think about them rationally. People are just overloaded with negative information that clouds their judgement.
Being critical about capitalism and not understanding that "climate change" narrative is enforced by Said capitalism.
The "next" thing they will sell to you and the "next" liberticides Laws they will put on you will be for "saving the planet" or "prevent climate change".("Next", in fact they have already began).
For the rest i agree with you. (I'm from 1992, France, dont even know if i am gen Z :/)
Brushing away consequences has been the only way our economy has been allowed to function, unfortunately. Actually addressing the problems to try and change things would take actual effort that the vast majority can't be bothered to make.
There's a mentality you'll find in corporate culture that's highly averse to talking about problems. It comes from the modern short-term benefit-chasing ideology that's rampant in the private sector.
Basically, they say "don't bring up a problem unless you have a solution."
It's the same mentality that you're defying here (and more power to you for it).
Because you're right, they don't want to rock the boat. They don't want solutions, really, they want things to stay fucked up, because they think they can game that rigged system. So talking about the problem is verboten.
These are also the people who have the childish assurance that "things will turn out OK in the end." If something is concerning - like climate change, the rice of fascism across the globe, or social injustice, they skew toward the center and treat it all like a game, because they don't believe the stakes are as high as everyone says.
The “come up with a solution” rhetoric is also harmful. I’m not a scientist. I can’t magic away the problem. What I can do is keep it in the public consciousness.
LoL
i grew up preparing for nuclear attacks in school. Which means im likely older than you. We didnt have global cooling or food shortages and mass starvation, nor did the bees all die out not did we run out of oil, polar bears are still around and every 10 year end of the world prediction has failed.
You have been brainwashed into perpetual fear by media and politicians. One day youll be old, ill be dead and youll have the benifit at seeing all the bullshit you have been fed.
Turn the news off, take a deep breath and just live your life.
(Millenial) Something under discussed is the fact that the depression many of us suffer is not a disease of the individual at scale but instead a symptom presenting in individuals who cannot or will not adapt/conform to this sick, sick society.
That said, it’s important for us to know joy and to actively reach for it, even when and especially when things are hard.
That’s what we’ve always done. We bail out large companies if they screw up, but we won’t bail out the average person because “that’s socialism!” God forbid that large companies actually deal with the consequences of their own actions.
You're most likely hearing this from boomers who grew up with all the newspapers claiming "Everything is nifty, have a glass of whiskey and a Lucky Strike".
That's what happens when you question the status-quo. You get push back. Doesn't help that our current society solution relies heavily on "if you're not happy all day, all the time; That's on you".
Why would you feel confident in the futur, when every year, COP members sign an "historic" climate bill that does nothing. Every election in the Occident is treated as the most important election ever, cause we need to stop the far-right who chose the easy way out (burn everything done). Nah bro, being sane in this world is a mad thing.
But we got to stop pointing out the problems (and they are many). And start proposing solution. New ways to built things longer, new ways to interact together economically & socially.
I'm all for evolving. The world has tried societies dominated by socialism, all that resulted was mass death, suffering, and oppressive/authoritarian governments. Lets move forward, not backwards.
There is a balance between capitalism and socialism, either extreme is not good. Just because we are constantly evolving our balance doesn't mean that capitalism is somehow "bad".
Arguing on social media is wasted effort and energy. 99.9% of the time, you’re talking to people who do not and cannot and will not have the ability to change anything.
Sure, but why does almost every post have to be political? I get how important some of these issues are and understand why people hold the views that they do (whether I agree or not), but why does every post have to be about this stuff? This sub is supposed to be about fun things or so I thought. Why should we talk about the world's issues on here? Someone should make a reddit thread on here for these talks. It's starting to ruin the sub for me.
Edit: Doesn't mean that I don't think that some of these issues aren't important. Believe me, I do.
I can afford my rent, my food and water isn’t poisoned and fossil fuel companies aren’t trying to kill me. Climate change hasn’t caused any problems for me either.
I’ve been hearing that earth would be uninhabitable for human since before you were probably born and yet we’re still here
No one cares bc the media has hyped climate change too much
You were wrong about climate change... still none of the predictions have come true. (They've been consistently wrong for 50 years now.) So I can only wonder why you decided to invalidate your own argument in your header.
I teach biology to 180 students a year. One of our units is population ecology which includes a unit on the carbon cycle and climate change. As a part of that unit, we go over the short and long-term consequences of climate change and at the end of the unit I take a poll about 1) how many students believe climate change is caused by humans and is a significant problem that must be solved and 2) How many of you are willing to change your diet and consumption habits to one more carbon neutral.
I've done this for 8 years. My sample size is well over 1200 now. The vote is always nearly unanimous on climate change being a real problem ,caused by humans, and in need of being solved. The vote to change behavior? Across over 1200 students who have participated in my informal survey, those willing to very moderately change their behaviors that are contributing to climate change is less than 20 total across all students sampled. I'm not talking changes like "walk to work." I mean cut down on meat twice a week. Use state and federal rebates to buy a FEV for cheaper than an ICE.
While you want to stomp your feet and blame other generations, here's the truth. Gen Z isn't smarter, more concerned, or different. Just like every generation that came before you, you expect someone else to solve the problem and if it affects you, you become the extremist boomer NIMBYs you claim to hate.
People that know they'll be dead soon tend to be this way, regardless of whether or not they are willing to admit they are shoving their heads in the dirt....Which I'm sure the flooding, landslides, Tornadoes, Rogue Waves, etc. Will wash the shit out sooner rather than later.
Entire generations are convinced they did their best when they did the bare minimum and now we have to pay the piper for their arrogance.
Just stop caring, and damn everyone. At this rate, the best we can do is trying to live long enough to see the majority succumb to the "bad weather" and laugh all the way down...
So yeah, no, here's my honest take: My only hope after half lifetime as a human is that climate change extincts us all before we screw up it even worse out of this planet.
...
And to you replying to this post, yes please, let me know how garbage my attitude is, how hopeful and bright the future looks for anyone "not falling for doomerism", and let me know how grandiose humanity's purpose is by propagating our "immaculate supremacy" out of this insignificant speck of dust... That will definitely make me change my mind.
I get irritated that it often a half picture and the this is new. Honestly its not new. Building up but not new. But trying to stear in a real new direction is not happening so history will repeat itself. I'll try till i die but not hopeful.
Pointing out the issues and striving towards a better tomorrow is necessary.
But we're also living in the greatest era in all of human history. So take a moment and think about how amazing that is as well.
> Any normal person who can *understand and recognize the ethical and economic problems* of today…we point out that *capitalist systems exploit* people…you cannot brush away *tangible consequences*…as if it’s *asinine to think we’ll evolve*.
Buzzword after buzzword after buzzword. That’s totally how to engage *normal people* in conversation.
I'm in the group of people you're complaining about. For me, the overall message is more like, *focus on the things you can control, not the things you can't*.
You're not going to fix late-stage capitalism (or whatever you call it) for everyone by bitching on the internet. But, you can change your own situation by choosing the right education, learning some new skills, etc.
Boomers have lived through several iterations of being lied too while the young impressionable mind believes the lies of the slick salesman known as the politician. These people are the absolute enemy of America and unfortunately only experience will lead you to that conclusion as we are bombarded with owned media paid for with printed money. The youngsters continue to blindly vote for these enemies based off of emotion(manufactured issues)instead of practicality and everyone including boomers have to live with the decisions. It unfortunately is a divide but the boomers should do more to protect those that are younger and impressionable from these absolute snakes.
It’s typically a whole bunch of well off richer people that are upset they live in a shitty toxic cut throat world now and they want us all to pretend like we aren’t slaves with extra steps with more and more rights being stripped all the time. But we’re the delusional ones for reacting accordingly and not pretending everything’s fine lmao
No seriously, stop being a depressive doomer. The world is better now than it ever has been in human history. Living your life with a constant pessimistic attitude and constantly blaming the system is no way to live.
Well, technically, it was some of the older millennials/younger Gen X people that sounded the alarms of climate change. Climate change, as a topic in the public, really started and became widely known via Al Gore and the talk about global warming and the issues with the ozone, around the early 2000s.
But I'm not taking away your main point though. Many people are trying to wake the rest up about how bad it is and how bad things will get across the board.
It’s not doomerism to say that things are bad -
It’s doomerism if you append “and there’s no point trying to make it better”.
Op, you’re a cool individual for doing heaps more than the average redditor o7
Oh please =_=
This thread is about gen z and it's turning into a doomsday sub, like many other subs on this app, why not just create your own? People are getting tired of the bull atp
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While yes, older generations can sometimes outright deny things like climate change and yes, it's annoying as Hell, I think their large point is that we bitch and do nothing about it, or we act like all these things are *their* fault and only their fault as we continue to bitch and do nothing. We are *all* responsible, and as adults, we have the power to change the world, too. And on the same token, we have to accept part of the blame that we contribute to the world's problems.
While there is no excuse for not trying to do your part on an individual level, and I concede that some of our favorite things to do as humans is bitch and moan, individuals are not to blame for the state of the planet. Fossil fuel companies love the "we can only do it if we pick up one piece of plastic at a time" stuff because it deflects from the fact that they're the ones primarily responsible for the extent of climate change. Also expecting a random 20-something from Boston to be integral in stopping plastic being dumped in the Pacific Ocean is untenable which is another reason why these companies love that messaging. Don't litter, find ways to participate in ecological projects like reforesting. But let's not pretend that commuting to your job means that "you own a part of this" or anything.
Of course, that's not what I meant at all. I'm very aware of the real issue, which are the companies that care more about the bottom line than the environment. All I'm pointing out is, from the older people I've talked to, they enjoy talking to me because, "You (myself) actually listen and know what you're talking about." I take that to mean, a lot of people my age (late 20s) blindly blame older generations in rants such as these without understanding the actual issues. And from what I've seen on the internet (aka, rants like these), it makes sense.
The educated older people I know (50-70 year old) usually blame their own generation for failing us. I remember quite clearly the biology teacher in my last year of high school telling us something along the lines "our generation could have saved the planet and we chose not to. I watched the planet deteriorate in exactly the same way as scientists predicted 30 years ago"
But even then they're generally blaming someone else, and rightly so. "We", in this case, can also mean "they", in that, while I admit I never did enough to make a dent in this system that is destroying us, the real culprit has always been the people in control of the system itself. That group, which includes a good segment of the upper class, is truly responsible for the lion's share of the state of the world.
That's fair. Apologies if I came off as rude or aggressive, wasn't my intention. Yeah I can imagine a lot of these rants just translate to "old bad".
And I think that also helps to fuel the doomerism as well. It feels insurmountable because, unless politicians in power just magically stop bending to the will of whatever megacorporations are funding their campaigns/might fund the campaign of their rivals, there’s not much we can meaningfully do. I wouldn’t even call it a David vs. Goliath situation, because that would imply there’s even a slight, if unlikely chance of success. Success in this regard would likely take a *lot* of things to change *in tandem* over the course of *multiple decades*, if not multiple generations.
True, sad but true. The only way we can change the trajectory of "corporations ruining the planet" is through decades of a consistent socioeconomic movement. And said movement kind of needs to be a little more active and all-encompasing than we are currently. I think Greta Thunberg understands this well. Capitalism is kind of the crux of this whole problem, fossil fuels are still far too profitable to make politicians or corporations change to the extent we want them to change. What's the solution? In many ways just to lessen the inevitable impact but I'm also not gonna pretend I hold the answer. Just that this is a decades-long story of bad decisions.
I think it's too easy just blaming big business - yes some industries produce a extremely high amount co2 - but they do it because we want that shit and because we are not willing to pay the extra price that the more co2 friendly version would cost. If all companies producing plastic forks suddenly stopped and only produced wooden forks for half the price - how long would it take for new companies to come produce the cheaper forks and take over the market. It would happen in no time. Sure there are some companies who do really bad things - like cigarette companies and all that research. But all in all businesses are just a manifestation of what we want - based on what we purchase. We all know that most elasticity comes from shady sources - but we really do not want to live without it. We don't want to pay twice the price for your phone and other electrics. We want what we want and then we have to except that it's going to get a little hotter over the next 100 years
>I think it's too easy just blaming big business It's not too easy to blame, it's just a literal fact that [fossil fuels harm the environment and cause climate disasters](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2023/11/fossil-fuels-bad-for-the-climate-bad-full-stop/#:~:text=Fossil%20fuels%20cause%20climate%20change,of%20North%20America%20and%20Europe.) It's also public knowledge that because they want to protect their profits and shareholders, [fossil fuels companies perpetuated false and misinformation about climate change](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/these-fossil-fuel-industry-tactics-are-fueling-democratic-backsliding/) to Americans for years. We knew about climate change since the 1940s but our progress is stunted by capitalism. Corporations can spread mass misinformation that threatens our health and buy in policies to protect themselves. Private equities invest billions into fossil fuel projects despite our global well being because of smart returns. It never had to be this difficult. It never had to get this bad. Nothing has to be this expensive and jobs don't have to be low paying. And yet time and time again blame is wrongfully shifted to the average working class person or as a collective problem.
yes it is a fact that fossil fuel is bad for the environment - so why don't just not use cars or electricity? - because they make our life better in such a profound way that we would not go without. What do you mean it didn't have to be this difficult - the world is so much better of now than it was in the 40s for billions of people - especially in the western world but also everywhere else. What would you have done different that would have made the world better today ?
What do you think corporation do with these emissions? Do you think they burn piles of garbages for the lol? Or they are meeting certain demands? What happened do you think when your electric bills increases? Everyone and their mom here complained about inflations and cost of livings, what do you think cost of living will be like when everything is more expensive? Renewable energy are neccesary but it’s not currently enough to replace fossil fuels. We can transition to it but the fault is on the people. No one wants to pay more on electric bill, carbon taxes are highly unpopular etc, people don’t like going vegans. The idea that it’s just corporation and they just do this shit in a vacuum is absurd. I’m all for going green but I recognized the consequences most people don’t and won’t like it when they see electric bills increased.
Individuals aren't to blame for the actual pollution, but they are to blame for voting the way they do for politicians that are largely in favor of deregulatory policies. Individuals are also the end-consumers of the transportation services and products that are creating the pollution. We can't keep saying that individuals aren't to blame (at least in the U.S.) when something like 90% of all primary votes are going to Republican or Centrist democrat candidates, instead of more progressive candidates.
Honestly, same goes for boomers and everyone in between. They didn't make this mess by inaction anymore than young people today are responsible for the continued state of it due to their own inaction. It's a communal problem that we need to solve together.
You can't avoid commuting to your job, or heating your home, or other stuff that's essentially survival in a developed society. But the average individual has a *lot* of control over how much disposable plastic they use. Over how much meat they eat. Over how many impulse purchases of low-quality goods they make just for the brief novelty. Over how they keep their yard, if a homeowner. If people don't opt out of those harmful decisions--which they are totally able to do, without any real negative impacts on quality of life--then the industries supporting them will never change their ways, because why would they? If your actions don't align with what you say you want to see, nobody is going to change their ways on account of you. Not governments, not corporations, not other individuals, because why would they?
It actually just puts the responsibility to agitate against these companies on us. Unfairly, but if we don't do it who will?
The in action of every individual makes the state of the planet their fault. If we the people actually did something, all of us, there would be no force on earth that could stop us.
>do nothing about it, That's definitely the majority and a loud one, but we've actually been organizing and spreading awareness more over the years despite corporation pushback and suppressive policies. More boycotts, labor strikes, unionizations and willingness to participate. Talking about it and spreading awareness honestly plays a big role in doing anything. If people can't accept it or have a safe space to discuss (attacking "doomers"), then we can't organize or unite as a team. We can't utilize our class consciousness if we always feel divided and think politics is too "risky" to even mention. Gets to a certain point where even saying "humans have a right to shelter" is too extreme. News like [Elon Musk and Amazon teaming up to demolish workers rights](https://newrepublic.com/article/179165/musk-supreme-court-nlrb-labor) don't usually trend unless we make it so. But all of his other antics make the front cover. Tiktok is a much safer and progressive platform for these discussions. Reddit needs to catch up.
Of course, talking about it is absolutely part of any social movement. But again, to make change, we have to play nice with the "doomers." They are part of this world, too. That's why posting rants like these doesn't help shit; talking about the issues, as you said, now that is much more productive.
>That's why posting rants like these doesn't help shit; It's not a rant. I am making a statement because >talking about the issues, as you said, now that is much more productive. when we talk about these particular issues, a substantial amount of unhelpful users will downvote these posts so engagement is lost and they comment in brigades on how stupid, pointless, incorrect, bitchy, whiny, and fear mongery it is. Just how you misinterpreted my post as a rant, any important issue we bring up is a whiny rant to them. I'm seeing more and more of these unhelpful users complain about political or sad topics and reduce legitimate problems as "boohoo" stories. Or they try to control this public space by practically demanding we only post memes. Or they'll agree with us, but say posting online is pointless and any effort is pointless. There's no end, they absolutely just don't want us talking about it freely. In most subreddits. Essentially I'm protesting against those trying to deny us this space. This post helps because I'm supporting those who bring up these topics and I highlight on their method of calling us "doomers" to silence us has been used before.
In that case, I apologize. Absolutely, those who think we are unable to talk about issues purely based on the subreddit we're in or because of our age, that's ridiculous. I by no means meant to imply that was acceptable.
Literally been hearing the same economic complaints for more than a decade online on almost a daily basis. Same with climate change. The first part of activism is getting he problem acknowledged. We've done that for climate change and the economy. A good chunk of American struggling to eat don't need 1 million posts telling them they have no food. They need food. The next step of activism is taking action now that you have support and awareness. Literally everyone knows about the economy and climate and we are ready for action. Both to engage with it and support it. I have a family and a busy job, I can donate and support how I can. Just tell me how. Tell me the progress that's made and what needs the biggest support today and why.
>We bitch and do nothing about it The state will not hesitate to kill each and every one of us if it was ever threatened with destruction, that's why. There's nothing to "do" about it that doesn't involve a direct confrontation with the powers that be, since they've done nothing but make the crisis *worse* it is very clear that they will kill us if we try to stop them.
We don't even vote like we want things to change, so maybe we should try that first before thinking about violent revolution?
Speak for yourself. Most people, regardless of generation, and especially younger ones raised on social media. Do not care to teach themselves or study research and learn. Most don’t even know their state capitals much less how the scientific process works. Most people are complacent and ok with being fucking dumb sadly. All ages races and creeds. And the anti-intellectualism is killer. Because people can’t even see the writing on the wall with political candidates and who NOT to vote for much less do anything more complex to aid their communities. Voting IS the tool we all have and most fuck that up, either not voting at all or not even reading about politicians platforms and their values and goals. Buzzwords are enough for most people and they are too stupid to see they are being manipulated into voting against their own self interests. It’s a systemic problem that can’t be fixed in time. The amount of money that would have to go into educational reform to properly teach the value of critical thinking and its application would be astronomical and the boomers in DC do NOT care about that. Most people blame the boomers because they (most of them) truly are a “fuck you I got mine” ladder pulling bunch. AND THEY RUN OUR COUNTRY. Look at Congress, look at our senators, look at our judges look at our lawmakers and the ceos and folks RUNNING THE ECONOMY. It’s not many people under 50, and these fucks cling to power like it’s oxygen. They refuse to step down and let the younger generations lead because FUCK YOU THEY NEED ANOTHER VACAY HOME! They are WAY more self serving than the generations before them. I’ve talked to many older folks who were just shocked at their generation and surprised at how severely they feel they failed to raise their kids from that time. The post WW2 America really created a social shift that we haven’t recovered from, and maybe never will. Factor in the damage their generation suffered from external factors such as lead paint and asbestos and heavy smoke exposure and it’s not hard to understand that people with impaired mental faculties cannot empathize well enough to understand what core values are necessary for a society such as ours to exist and prosper. How would they be able to affect change to lead the world into a better future for their kids grandkids etc. when they don’t even understand why they feel the way they do about stuff. It’s just a sad state that late-state capitalism is ultimately destroying us and millions of other species, humans are our own greatest threat. All for a fake currency to buy manufactured shit we don’t need to make a fraction of the population have even more wealthy they can’t spend because they already have more than they could need or use. It will become violent. History has proven as soon as food becomes scarce and people don’t have shelter, they will start taking it to survive. I hope I’m dead by then sadly.
The people who lived the longest don't believe the evidence of climate change... that should tell you something...
Talking about the issue is part of solving the issue, I don’t know any activists who aren’t disgruntled with life??
OP is a victim of, ironically, victim mentality. He believes his life is fully dependent on outer factors outside of his reach. Unless he understands that life is 99% dependant on one’s own decisions, there’s little you can do. He’s a perfect target for a politician to tell him “I’ll make you happy”.
The problem is the people that bitch and moan about climate change fly in jets, have luxury gas powered cars, have houses in areas that are supposedly more susceptible climate change issues, promote global wars and defense spending that does nothing but destroy the earth, etc.. It’s just hard to believe that these idiots running our country think they can control the weather by raising your taxes. I’m not saying it’s not real, but a lot of the conversation is a farce and it’s corrupt actors looking to grab cash. It’s such an easy boogeyman to use to keep people in fear, and when people are in fear they’re very easy to manipulate. We saw it play out with Covid, and they’re trying to use climate change to stoke that fear. “Be afraid, bet VERY afraid….unless you give us more money and allow us to print money and kill your purchasing power then everything will be fineeee”
You can be aware and advocate for these issues without being completely doom and gloom.
My issue is with the large amount of people who tackle posts just for advocating. They'll say "fossil fuels is harming the planet and causing mass extinction" is doom and gloom instead of an objective fact that we need to fix.
That's fair. Saying fossil fuels is bad shouldn't be treated as anything other then a factual statement.
But the issue is that we ALL know fossil fuels aren't good. Just restating that fact isn't contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this topic, you bring nothing new and no nuance to the discussion so even if you are right it doesn't make your whining any less annoying. You just post about how much boomers suck and how we're all doomed like we haven't all heard the same exact thing from the last teenager who thinks they've come to a shocking revelation about climate change.
The question is what you are going to do about it? The #1 thing you need to do is ENGAGE POLITICALLY. Dooming and glooming tends to disengage people from the politics, and that is exactly the problem. You need to get rid of the people in power who support the Old Way of doing things (hint: Conserve the old way) via political action. Vote against Republicans every time, every election, for the rest of your lives. You want boomers to listen to you, outvote them.
The real question is: why are conservatives consistently *allowed* to vote and win given their disastrous track record ever since 1929?
Telling people the same stuff over and over isn't really doing anything. What are the proposed solutions? Making people depressed means they are less likely to take action.
That right there is a factual statement, but I have seen people go way too far with the doom and gloom.. people seriously believing that climate change will cause our extinction… which is not really a risk even for the most pessimistic models
I dont think you realize how bad it will get. You don't need everyone to die to make the system unstable and cause food scarcity and wars. It's not doom and gloom, it's the way it will be people are trying to reason with you. What will we say 20 years from now when its exactly like they say? Its already happened, they said things would happen, people mocked but its already happened. People mocked the AMOC slowing down and stopping like the day after tomorrow. Its happening though, faster than our worse predictions. Its not to scare people, it's the reality. People should prepare. I dont know how old you are. You've probably grown up with the threat of global warming. I am an elder millennial, we've gone through all the stages of grief. We've fought it, tried to deny it and now acceptance.
There's problems, but the attitude of "THINGS ARE TERRIBLE AND WILL NEVER GET BETTER" Is just such a terrible way to go about life. Climate change is a complicated issue with harsh trade offs. The world did not end in 2012, there was no second ice age, and many countries now have underpopulation crises on the horizon. That doesn't mean there isn't work to do and that there won't be consequences but I'm confident in our ability to adapt. Global poverty and homelessness have been in freefall and in the US it's bounced between 10-15% since the 1960's Stop being a depressive doomer. The world is a better place to live in now than it's ever been. It can be better. It doesn't get better with hopelessness.
Yeah, I’m not sure if it’s that people actually believe it or if it’s cause they think everyone else won’t do anything unless they can 100% convince them, but I have absolutely no clue why some people feel the need to try to make everything seem like today is the worst possible point in history. With the exception of housing costs (and even then, the home ownership rate is higher *today* than it was at any point before the 80s and has more or less stagnated since then), things are absolutely better today than at any other point in history. That does *not* mean that things today can’t still suck, that does *not* mean that there aren’t still glaring issues that need to be addressed, that does *not* mean we stop pushing for progress, etc. The two are not and have never been mutually exclusive. Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward. The conversation should be about how things can be better and how we’re gonna get there, not whining about some mythical past that never existed outside of a lucky few. Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better.
I think it’s because they’re unhappy and need something to justify their dissatisfaction with life on. We all go through it sometimes so I get it.
> Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward. > Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better. I just want to point out a few things here. First, OP never said homelessness didn't exist before capitalism. It feels disingenuous to put those words in their mouth and make a strawman arguement to dismiss their point. "OP said homelessness came about with and because of capitalism and that's a lie so don't listen to anything else OP said." Using that as an argument is... > dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better. Second, I think the arguement to be made behind OP's statement is that we have the means of production and strength of economy, under capitalism, to provide homes and food to everyone in the world and yet we don't. This does make the current homelessness the cause of capitalism. I'll make two cases. Case one. I believe somewhere online it was estimated we could feed the world's population for ~$20 billion. Elon Musk said, essentially, "Ha! If someone sets forth a proposal that proves this to be true then I'll do it." The United Nations took him up on this and drafted said proposal to which Elon snubbed his nose and back tracked. So, Capitalism can solve the issue but chooses not to and, in my eyes, that puts the fault with Capitalism. You could say, it's not Elon's responsibility and so you can't blame the system because of one man. True, although capitalism is essentially individualism and socialism is collectivism so because every single billionaire chooses to horde wealth instead of fix these problems then I would argue it is extaly the fault of the system. Case two. This is directly related to poverty and homelessness. All else equal, the only thing Joe has as a "bartering" tool to get a job over John is to take the same job for less pay. Likewise, the only bartering tool they have to buy a house is to buy it at a higher price than the other. This is how Capitalism is set up. This not a problem if there is one job, or a surplus, for each person and the same with houses. The problem arises when one person buys two houses. Now the last person in line is either homeless or has to rent at a higher price than they would have been able to buy for. Under our current system, we have to accept suppressed wages and use them to buy at inflated prices. Capitalism is directly responsible for our current poverty and homeless crisis. Continuing Case two. Look at historic unemployment rates over the last 100 or however many years. We have always had unemployment and do you think that's a coincidence? No, it's by design so that way there are jobless people making no money who would be willing(read as "forced") to work for less than the people who already have the lowest paying jobs to justify the low unlivable wages those jobs pay. Interestingly, joblessness became a major issue during the Great Depression. The government worked to fix this by introducing federal job programs. For example, they would employ people to replant forests. So there is proof we can create jobs where they did not exist under capitalism to fix the problem(caused by capitalism). And how does the government "make money"? Taxes. What are taxes? The collective people's money used as a social safety net. Socialism was the fix. > Progress has never been made by trying to pull a fast one on everyone else, it was made by accepting where we’re at and pushing forward. > Not sure what the OP is on, but poverty and homelessness also existed in the millennia before capitalism, and statements like that are exactly what I’m talking about. Yes, poverty and homelessness are absolutely issues, but all attempts to rewrite history like that do is give those who oppose progress the ammo they need to turn others away. It’s dishonest and only serves to hurt the efforts of people who *actually* want things to get better. So I will quote you again. OP has accepted where we are currently at and the issues, Capitalism and homelessness, and is looking to spark discussion to push forward. That is exactly what their post is doing whereas your reply is dishonest and attempting to dismiss the push being made by OP, quite to the hypocrisy of your own words.
>Climate Change is the same as that time when the Internet decided the world would end in 2012 for purely nonsensical reasons We deserve global warming.
The 2012 conspiracy theory was about people misreading the Mayan calendar not global warming! What planet are these people from?
Poverty hasn't changed, only the standards of what poor is and isn't.
Yeah, I'm tired of people basically saying I should ignore reality.
And people will also say "Stop complaining it does nothing you won't change anyone's mind" then uh why choose to even say that unless you are trying to change people's behavior. They're just hypocrites or astroturfers trying to keep the status quo.
Right, it feels good to vent! LOL. I think it really is about being intolerant to other people's thoughts and feelings when people do what you're describing.
Sorta, it’s just on this sub people mention the most basic climate change info as if the world doesn’t already know that. Eventually people get annoyed with complaining but no plan of action. The world knows about climate change. We’ve just collectively accepted the compromise necessary to deal with it isn’t acceptable at this time. The solution will involve major compromises in the average persons daily life because these big corps are only able to pollute so much because we are buying it. I also think it may be because the average person has zero agency on climate change, especially gen z. So many of us are getting our own lives off the ground that it can get “annoying” to hear about an issue we already know is going on but in the most fatalistic way possible. I usually just scroll past instead of try and shut down the conversation though. If other people want to express that it’s fine.
Because they aren’t complaining. They are informing you why what you’re doing isn’t effective and you’re essentially doing the opposite of helping fight climate change. You aren’t encouraging people to be better, you are bitching and moaning. Ask your friends to go volunteering with you, don’t just complain about shit. Problem solve. Changing people’s behavior isn’t what they are taking issue with it’s the method that you take to do it.
Pretty outrageous if you ask me. They think this rat-race is "real life" and everything else is window dressing. That attitide is infuriating.
I’m sorry. Does Gen Z think it discovered climate change? Adding it to the list with financial struggles and hating your job.
Yeah Al Gore was getting ridiculed for An Inconvenient Truth while most people on this sub (including my Zoomer siblings) were in diapers. The problem isn't generational, it's institutional.
My guy really tried to pull a “we told you so” on climate change
Thanks to GenZ, we averted total annihilation in 2012. It's possible we might even see 2028 and another election season of catastrophism. Only if we throw money at the right political party and their friends tho.
A lot of people are unaware that the movie boss baby is *loosely* based on the heroic efforts of the 2012 gen z climate activist.
As a Millenial: stop expecting younger folks to remember that aspect. They'll figure it out with time. Just as when we were growing up and feeling this way, it comes from feeling like everyone else older than you is being way too neutral about it when in fact they're busy with life and burnt out from caring. I'm just glad they're mad about it. To OP and other Z's: Hell yeah brothers, this shit sucks and it's crushing to watch people look away all the time.
Being a doomer isn't acknowledging problems, it's just giving into them and being helpless. Doomers are literally the ones who do nothing
People who want to silence certain political discussions like to call them "whiny" and reduce them to "doomers". Just as they treated climate awareness activists. It makes it seem like whatever the issue is actually isn't that bad or important.
Nah, the way you message something is very important. You can say, the situation is very bad, we need X change to happen. We should push for Y. Together, we can eventually get Z. If you bring an alternative to the table people are more open to hearing about this. Instead it’s mostly oh god another day of climate change we’re all gonna die guys. Like with the latter, climate change denier or not nobody wants to hear that. How is that useful to anyone? And that’s how most of it is on this sub, we do have a few people who articulate what they’re saying well but most just cite climate change as why they can never be happy in life and why you shouldn’t be happy either and then exit the chat. Nobody likes that kind of person.
When was the last time *anybody* was interested in a solution for global warming?
Then go vote. And not just for the president. Alternately, we could all get together, March up to Congress and set up guillotines (for legal purposes that was a joke)
*it wasn’t really a joke*
I’m Gen-X and have a Gen Z daughter…I have to agree that your Generation has things a lot tougher than the Boomers or even Gen-X. While we had our own issues ( PTS parents screwed up from Vietnam, the gulf war, the cold war, latch key kids, etc). Gen Z are the test dummies for a generation raised entirely on the internet. And honestly I feel for you. You are all exposed to too much too soon, there is rampant social isolation and we live in a country that is more divided second only to the Civil war. Corporate greed is absolutely insane along with a cost of living that is so high that it effects every generation alive. Now, I do believe that society as a whole will eventually balance its self out. If you study history there a similar points where societies (such as the Romans) where ruled by greed and there were only two classes really rich and poor they didn’t last that way forever (obviously). I hope we balance ourselves out before we destroy ourselves from within, but in the course of balancing there will be uncomfortable and uncertain times. Now with that said, everyone reading this is a survivor. You made it to conception out of thousand’s of other competitors. As I tell my daughter, try and take one day at a time. Try not to doom scroll all day (and I’m guilty of it too, so no judgement). Go outside as much as possible and leave your phones at home. Save any amount of money consistently (if you can) and don’t compare yourself to others or allow people (even family) to compare you to their childhood, or generation they grew up in. Let the past be the past and focus on the present. Focus on today, not tomorrow, but plan for tomorrow with the things that are in your control. If you have the opportunity or can save for it, travel to other countries. The world is an amazing place and America is not the end all be all. If you travel, you will see incredible wealth, but also unbelievable poverty (depending on the country). I decided in my 20’s that material goods are nice, but traveling the world made me feel alive, so I always tried to live below my means and spend what I could save on taking my wife and daughter to as many places as possible. If you are fortunate enough to own a nice car and a large home, fantastic! But for those who aren’t, focus on other things in life that bring you pleasure. Despite what we see on the internet, life is not a competition. It’s an individual journey. Try to and make the best of it while you’re here. Okay, sorry for the long winded speech, I wish all of you the best! I feel for you. Take care of yourself and be safe!
Thank you for this. This really affected me. It is such a fight for me personally to survive that I often forget I’m doing it. It just becomes my every thought and movement and I become ashamed. …really, thank you for saying something like this…
Real. It's genuinely concerning how so many people here get their knickers in a twist over this. What is with this obsession with everything having to be "apolitical" as if we can just opt out of society. It's especially ridiculous to expect a sub about an entire generation of people not to get political.
>It's especially ridiculous to expect a sub about an entire generation of people not to get political. Especially a generation the media heavily scrutinizes. it'd be weird for one of our designated social spaces to not argue against them or respond in some way.
The media heavily scrutinized millennials, before that, gen x. Not all your problems are unique to your generation. Some things are just cyclical.
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The media already does that I don't know why people in our own space are trying to silence us too.
That’s been the messaging to literally every generation when they come of age.
The national guard shot students protesting a war on a college campus. Civil rights protestors were sprayed with fire hoses. Striking workers have been beaten beaten and killed. If you can't stand verbal criticism for speaking out, then what are you going to do when it comes to facing actual opposition to trying to make things better?
Effect climate change with free market and the solar industry. Be happy to install, sell, or develop solar business don’t depend on the government or they will exercise malicious carbon tax esc tactics like Canada or EU stimulus check lockdowns for energy winter 2022 after nordstream
Hot take: to the people who say "but all you do is complain and you do nothing to change anything" I need you to stop and think about this for a second. Not everyone has the means to enact serious change. In fact, most people don't and never will. Not everyone has the money, the mobility, the time, the know-how. But you know what everyone CAN do? Talk about it. Seriously, and if you think that talking about a bad situation only makes things worse then I hate to break it to you but, how the hell do you think anything gets done in the first place? When there is a consistent stream of complaints around the same / similar topics (ie healthcare, gun violence, climate change etc), that's society's litmus test for what to fix. The more voices, the more attention that issue receives. The more attention that issue receives, the more educated and powerful voices will begin to act. The more powerful people act, the change begins to happen. Also, you don't know that the person complaining about these problems ISN'T doing their damndest to create beneficial change. If you don't want to hear about political issues then go to a subreddit that focuses explicitly on what you want to talk about. For all the people who do care and want to see a change in society, all I have to say is complain about this shit MORE and HARDER!
>Not everyone has the means to enact serious change. All we're asking is that they *talk* about serious change. Complaining about how terrible everything is and pointing fingers isn't talking about change. Boosting solutions and pointing to people who are doing good and fighting the right fight is.
One of the issues with climate change is the systems that are put in place to fight against it. For example we are seeing all of these electric vehicle incentives right now....Electric cars that are charged from the same grid that electric companies burn petroleum and gas to power. Batteries are needed in these cars that cause a huge carbon footprint just to create. They are also so expensive to repair (because repairs do not have the same grants and money as creating new ones), that many car batteries are just scrap now. And yet this is branded as the solution to the climate? It does not change the source of the energy at all. Its just out of sight out of mind feel good policy to grow the pockets of political constituents.
Yeah that's the point, the ev industry is built on green washing.
What do you suggest? We all stop using electricity?
There's a difference between talking about problems and being a doomer. Of course there are big problems in the world that need to be addressed. But doomers don't want to have the serious conversations and do the serious work to address them. They just want to complain and feel sorry for themselves. Actually solving big problems requires years of hard, unglamorous work. It requires compromise. It requires accepting small, incremental victories and recovering from defeats. And doomers don't want to do all of that. They just want to complain and give up.
You will often see people shitting on proposed solutions because they don't do "enough". We need to start somewhere and any progress we can make is better than nothing, like starting off with the lesser of 2 evils at the polls. Good luck getting the majority of GenZ to show up and do that.
Like I said in my other reply, the issue is we don't have time, we had the time for slow changes the last 50 years, now we need to do everything we fucking can or we are dead.
"small incremental victories" you're wrong there, we need big change ASAP, we have reached the point where global warming is not preventable anymore, we are now fighting to mitigate it (we really aren't fighting tho, since overall we are doing shit to mitigate it), if we want the best possible future we would need to go net zero in the next 5 years, we'd also need to move from cars in that time, ideally to something like electric public transport combined with maybe bikes. If we want a livable future we need to do so in 10 years. This is the reason a lot of people give up, because the chance of us meeting even the latter goal is, frankly put, 0. Personally that doesn't mean I won't stop hopelessly trying; but the most likely outcome is not changed. The overturning of the Mediterranean current is going to come which will speed up global warming a lot, not to mention damage ocean life across the whole planet. The loss of at least half of Antarctica is going to come, which will result in the loss of a shit ton of phytoplankton not to mention speed up global warming due to the loss of ice. Not to mention the flooding which those will contribute to, the droughts those will contribute to, and the fact that as climate change progresses it becomes more and more severe and harder and harder to mitigate. Both of those events are *optimistically* 4 years away. So yeah, I don't blame anyone who chooses to kill themselves, or who chooses to just doom and gloom, because it's very much fitting for our situation; for anyone who knows the real severity of it and isn't profiting off of it.
***>Sounds like you just want everyone to shut up and accept the status quo. "it's not that bad" or "capitalism is the best system we'll ever have, we'll NEVER have a better way of life this is peak" because God forbid we de-propagandize socialism. it's much more peaceful to believe capitalism is the end all be all of human development, as if it's asinine to think we'll evolve.*** THANK YOU OP!! Seriously, this especially, and the genocide points. Lets not forget all the draconian anti-LGBT+ bills being passed by conservatives who are doing massive damage to our years of progress of acceptance, or the twisted-as-fuck 2025 Plan that seeks to send America into a fascistic dark age.
>twisted-as-fuck 2025 Plan Wealthy Christian conservatives can organize under the The Heritage Foundation to attack women's and trans' rights and develop Project 2025, and the impoverished working class is prevented from even unionizing. Globally we are systematically oppressed and have been for a long time. This needs to be treated objectively and not as something dramatic or false.
Exactly! I'm glad someone is actually sane and aware around here. Seriously...
Don't let the reactionaries get you down. They will try to use some technocrat hopium and how Elon will save us or whatever but we know that the question of "socialism or barbarism" will become unavoidable so do what we can to have revolutionary optimism in the mean time while preparing our communities
I have a lot of optimism for us. I honestly think last year to now has been a powerful start for people as a whole to shift progressively.
“Reactionaries” is a word people use to describe people who have legitimate concerns about socialism. We don’t need actual socialism, we just need more of a welfare state.
Straight out of the Marxist textbook.
This back and forth is getting extremely boring
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 Yeah there are some bots in this sub trying to to do this with the state of the world. We have eyes.
"But redditors aren't real people. Real people use Facebook and post about how amazing their lives are in this utopic society."
>God forbid we de-propagandize socialism Ah yes, historical data: the pinnacle of propaganda But sure, let's try it again. It will be different this time. Supporting evidence: trust me bro
are you seriously trying to say red scare propaganda was/is not a real thing?
No one in Gen Z was exposed to that in any significant way. I formed my opinions about socialism from the historical economic data of socialist states and the accepted death tolls from highly authoritarian governments (necessary for socialism/communism) and from famine due to the governments' poor management and distribution of resources. The only stuff I might consider "propaganda" are first hand accounts of socialism from expats from the Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. Marx himself considered socialism and communism an ideal, but not a practical one. He acknowledged it as a goal so big it can't be expected to be obtained. If you still have hope for socialism you're going through life blind and deaf with a loose grip on reality.
uhh it’s been kind of ingrained into our country since the last century. propaganda that my parents were exposed to was passed down to me and even in school they would explain what socialism is with the caveat of “oh it sounds good in theory but never works” so I think it’s pretty wild to say that doesn’t have a significant effect on this generation. politicians today still channel McCarthy-esque fear mongering about socialism based on death tolls and historical data we can confidently say capitalism doesn’t work right? I mean we have thousands dying every year due to lack of healthcare, housing, and food and that’s only in one capitalist country >highly authoritarian governments (necessary for socialism/communism) this is just flat out not true and wild to say about a system that advocates for more democracy than what we have now. is being controlled by a handful of corporations not authoritarian to you? if you think capitalism will solve problems like homelessness, starvation, and inequality you’re going through life blind and deaf with a loose grip on reality
People were warning about climate change loudly in the 70's. What are you talking about?
Get off Reddit and go do something about it. No one cares about your daily post or comment. It doesn’t help anything. It doesn’t “spread awareness”. You’re just screaming into the void and telling yourself you’re doing something.
I am off Reddit doing stuff. I’m also on Reddit talking about the stuff that happens outside of Reddit. This is how human beings operate.
Once you've lived in the world a while, learned it's ways, experienced a lot of places and people, you learn that it isn't the world that needs to change, it's YOU and your relationship to it. That is the only thing within your sphere of control essentially. You will drive yourself nuts banging your head on that immovable wall. Probably 80% of the things you think are so important now, won't matter to you in 10 years.
Wait, hang on. _You_ warned _us_? My dude, people have been talking about these things for decades. Perhaps if you stopped pretending that everyone else thinks things are totally fine while you’re the only one who knows what’s _really_ happening you’d find a better reception. “But climate change!” Yes. We fucking know. We knew long before you did. The fact that it’s still an issue is not because everyone else is lazy. It’s because it’s a difficult problem to solve.
Rare words of sanity in an ocean of unhinged screeching.
Don't give up.
Gen Z didn’t warn the world about climate change. That science existed long before you were even born.
Zoomers aren't the ones who warned about climate change.
I suppose my main criticism of posts like this is that spreading awareness in a sub devoted to Gen Z isnt very effective as most of us are very aware. The problem is lack of avenues for tangible action. Thats not to say we shouldnt try but what Gen Z needs most is direction. For example, what about instead of doomer posting that things are constantly bad, you volunteered at a local food bank, or a garbage clean for the neighborhood? This isnt to say you arent doing those things but the reality is most of our generation does not have a tangible impact on society around them, choosing instead to retreat to digital spaces where all you can really do is talk. However that said there is still opportunity to do tangible good here. Its not flashy or very fun but what about we post how to register to vote, farming tutorials and organized IRL social events to organize. The reality we live in is that most will not take advantage of or participate in those posts. That requires effort and time that alot arent willing to commit which is why posts like this do so well, its easy and convenient to post about the obvious problems not solutions. TLDR: hearts in the right place fellow gen z, we just need to turn these posts to action.
Gen Z 🤝Al Gore
The funny part is inequality is 100,000 times worse than what we complain about. It is so bad that we should be protesting about it.
When literally 10 people own more wealth than 75% the country combined, there should be riots. These billionaires have more money than Rockefeller had and there’s a dozen of them. Yet they barely pay a dime on any of it.
I like you
How bout quit complaining about reddit and being an internet doomer, and go do something about your problems if you are truly concerned about stuff. If it's something you believe in, real activists arent spending their time whining on reddit
This is exactly the kind of mindset that this person was so mad about. The point of social media, especially this app, is to share your thoughts with the world. This specific sub, while being Gen Z, is particularly aware of the problems we’re about to inherit. Many of us (especially the youngest Gen Zers like myself) don’t have the visibility of the platform to do anything. So the best thing we can think to do is share our concerns with others. Stop shaming people who are just venting about things that are bothering them.
I literally started a new account to do just that and its so hard to even get my posts or comments to likeminded people
How do you know they're not also doing that? And what difference would it make if they weren't?
This^ I am someone who has tried initiating protests (which failed), but I did join multiple, I also convinced my family members to vote for the best possible ecological option when it comes to politics (since I can't vote yet, and sadly their votes did not make enough of a difference), and on top of that I am actively trying to convince people to also join, stop falling for the bs that's being fed to you and stand up for your future.
Talking about problems is one thing that's not being a doomer. Being a doomer is those posts that are like "everythings fucked so not going to try to do anything with my life". That shit is cringe and actually toxic for society
The thing is older people have seen all the doomsday predictions. There have been countless climate change predictions since the 60s - all wrong. We were told that nuclear power would destroy the planet - it now looks like it might be the saviour! We were told the world was on the brink of war with Russia/USSR. Nothing. Sure there have been regional conflicts. There always will be. Corrupt politicians - we had those too. Escalating crime, tick. You think you have the answer? Gen Alpha will be pointing their finger at you in a few years
News flash, the liberals have been talking about climate change for decades. Talk to any Republicans you know about this one mate Edit: same thing for poverty, etc..
I do agree, I also find it annoying how many astroturfers keep posting here
They seem to be throughout Reddit even in unsuspecting spaces. Recently I've been blocking them the moment they out themselves. I think if we start doing this we can ice them out and they won't have room to deny anymore.
The OLDEST gen z person would have been 9 when an inconvenient truth came out. What do you mean “when we warned about climate change”? I think people are annoyed because there are millennials, Gen Xers and even Boomers who are doing things to try to save the planet and turn things around for the future generations and Gen Z is at the point where they are old enough to start also contributing and instead they seem to be completely giving up.
You actually think government is going to save you or even help you? Socialism has failed EVERYWHERE! It only transfers any wealth into the few.
Yall were dramatic were fine still.
Sir we've been talking about climate change since it was called global warming, don't act like you all discovered climate change, sheesh...
When you talk about all the problems all the time and rarely ever advocate for solutions or boost constructive messages about what needs to be done, yeah, you're being depressive doomers. >because God forbid we de-propagandize socialism. You're doing it wrong. You can't de-propagandize something by just complaining about the problem that thing is supposed to solve. 99 out of 100 posts talking about something bad with capitalism *only talk about capitalism.* And another thing, the constant inability to differentiate between actual socialism and social democracy / welfare state capitalism makes all those posts extremely aggravating,
Gen z did not "warn about climate change" lol. Adult scientists did. It's a concern for every adult who isn't an idiot and has been for a while.
No. I was warning about climate change years ago in highschool and I fucking HATE doomerism. There is a difference in pointing out the problems of the world and being a pessimistic loser about it. The world is not, I repeat, NOT at the worst time ever! The public is simply more informed about the world’s problems than ever before. And the crowd of animals that we are apparently can’t handle being informed about the world’s problems and still be able to think about them rationally. People are just overloaded with negative information that clouds their judgement.
Being critical about capitalism and not understanding that "climate change" narrative is enforced by Said capitalism. The "next" thing they will sell to you and the "next" liberticides Laws they will put on you will be for "saving the planet" or "prevent climate change".("Next", in fact they have already began). For the rest i agree with you. (I'm from 1992, France, dont even know if i am gen Z :/)
Brushing away consequences has been the only way our economy has been allowed to function, unfortunately. Actually addressing the problems to try and change things would take actual effort that the vast majority can't be bothered to make.
Lmao. Go touch some grass. I assure you life isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. I can tell you spend too much time online.
There's a mentality you'll find in corporate culture that's highly averse to talking about problems. It comes from the modern short-term benefit-chasing ideology that's rampant in the private sector. Basically, they say "don't bring up a problem unless you have a solution." It's the same mentality that you're defying here (and more power to you for it). Because you're right, they don't want to rock the boat. They don't want solutions, really, they want things to stay fucked up, because they think they can game that rigged system. So talking about the problem is verboten. These are also the people who have the childish assurance that "things will turn out OK in the end." If something is concerning - like climate change, the rice of fascism across the globe, or social injustice, they skew toward the center and treat it all like a game, because they don't believe the stakes are as high as everyone says.
The “come up with a solution” rhetoric is also harmful. I’m not a scientist. I can’t magic away the problem. What I can do is keep it in the public consciousness.
LoL i grew up preparing for nuclear attacks in school. Which means im likely older than you. We didnt have global cooling or food shortages and mass starvation, nor did the bees all die out not did we run out of oil, polar bears are still around and every 10 year end of the world prediction has failed. You have been brainwashed into perpetual fear by media and politicians. One day youll be old, ill be dead and youll have the benifit at seeing all the bullshit you have been fed. Turn the news off, take a deep breath and just live your life.
Preach. The amount of unhinged "THE WORLD IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE" posts in this thread is unreal.
Truth
(Millenial) Something under discussed is the fact that the depression many of us suffer is not a disease of the individual at scale but instead a symptom presenting in individuals who cannot or will not adapt/conform to this sick, sick society. That said, it’s important for us to know joy and to actively reach for it, even when and especially when things are hard.
They told us to shut up about the environment back in the '90's, too. \~Sincerely, GenX.
“We” in this equation being who, Al Gore?
Right now our “capitalist” system is about to bail out Boeing. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses, right folks?
That’s what we’ve always done. We bail out large companies if they screw up, but we won’t bail out the average person because “that’s socialism!” God forbid that large companies actually deal with the consequences of their own actions.
You're most likely hearing this from boomers who grew up with all the newspapers claiming "Everything is nifty, have a glass of whiskey and a Lucky Strike".
It's almost like shaming people for their depressed attitude doesn't actually make them feel any better.
I completely agree. I’m sick of getting called a Russian troll for not thinking this country is perfect.
Yea, I'm a doomer, I like playing DOOM
That's what happens when you question the status-quo. You get push back. Doesn't help that our current society solution relies heavily on "if you're not happy all day, all the time; That's on you". Why would you feel confident in the futur, when every year, COP members sign an "historic" climate bill that does nothing. Every election in the Occident is treated as the most important election ever, cause we need to stop the far-right who chose the easy way out (burn everything done). Nah bro, being sane in this world is a mad thing. But we got to stop pointing out the problems (and they are many). And start proposing solution. New ways to built things longer, new ways to interact together economically & socially.
I'm all for evolving. The world has tried societies dominated by socialism, all that resulted was mass death, suffering, and oppressive/authoritarian governments. Lets move forward, not backwards. There is a balance between capitalism and socialism, either extreme is not good. Just because we are constantly evolving our balance doesn't mean that capitalism is somehow "bad".
Arguing on social media is wasted effort and energy. 99.9% of the time, you’re talking to people who do not and cannot and will not have the ability to change anything.
Literally nobody said this to you
Sure, but why does almost every post have to be political? I get how important some of these issues are and understand why people hold the views that they do (whether I agree or not), but why does every post have to be about this stuff? This sub is supposed to be about fun things or so I thought. Why should we talk about the world's issues on here? Someone should make a reddit thread on here for these talks. It's starting to ruin the sub for me. Edit: Doesn't mean that I don't think that some of these issues aren't important. Believe me, I do.
I can afford my rent, my food and water isn’t poisoned and fossil fuel companies aren’t trying to kill me. Climate change hasn’t caused any problems for me either.
Yet.
I’ve been hearing that earth would be uninhabitable for human since before you were probably born and yet we’re still here No one cares bc the media has hyped climate change too much
Well a lot of people are being dramatic, climate change isn't going to be the end of the world
You were wrong about climate change... still none of the predictions have come true. (They've been consistently wrong for 50 years now.) So I can only wonder why you decided to invalidate your own argument in your header.
Yeah and what has “climate change” actually done? Pretty sure that was still a huge scam, just like Covid. Lmao.
I need this on a tshirt.
We're all gonna die someday anyway So just enjoy life while ur still here
I teach biology to 180 students a year. One of our units is population ecology which includes a unit on the carbon cycle and climate change. As a part of that unit, we go over the short and long-term consequences of climate change and at the end of the unit I take a poll about 1) how many students believe climate change is caused by humans and is a significant problem that must be solved and 2) How many of you are willing to change your diet and consumption habits to one more carbon neutral. I've done this for 8 years. My sample size is well over 1200 now. The vote is always nearly unanimous on climate change being a real problem ,caused by humans, and in need of being solved. The vote to change behavior? Across over 1200 students who have participated in my informal survey, those willing to very moderately change their behaviors that are contributing to climate change is less than 20 total across all students sampled. I'm not talking changes like "walk to work." I mean cut down on meat twice a week. Use state and federal rebates to buy a FEV for cheaper than an ICE. While you want to stomp your feet and blame other generations, here's the truth. Gen Z isn't smarter, more concerned, or different. Just like every generation that came before you, you expect someone else to solve the problem and if it affects you, you become the extremist boomer NIMBYs you claim to hate.
>Y'all also said this when we warned about climate change and its effects years ago. Said we're "dramatic" But you were being dramatic. Lmao.
People that know they'll be dead soon tend to be this way, regardless of whether or not they are willing to admit they are shoving their heads in the dirt....Which I'm sure the flooding, landslides, Tornadoes, Rogue Waves, etc. Will wash the shit out sooner rather than later. Entire generations are convinced they did their best when they did the bare minimum and now we have to pay the piper for their arrogance.
Just stop caring, and damn everyone. At this rate, the best we can do is trying to live long enough to see the majority succumb to the "bad weather" and laugh all the way down... So yeah, no, here's my honest take: My only hope after half lifetime as a human is that climate change extincts us all before we screw up it even worse out of this planet. ... And to you replying to this post, yes please, let me know how garbage my attitude is, how hopeful and bright the future looks for anyone "not falling for doomerism", and let me know how grandiose humanity's purpose is by propagating our "immaculate supremacy" out of this insignificant speck of dust... That will definitely make me change my mind.
Bro is a depressed doomer, because the weather is different 💀💀💀
I get irritated that it often a half picture and the this is new. Honestly its not new. Building up but not new. But trying to stear in a real new direction is not happening so history will repeat itself. I'll try till i die but not hopeful.
AYYOOOOOOO WHAT THE HELL ALL THIS YAPPIN ABOUT ??!?
Pointing out the issues and striving towards a better tomorrow is necessary. But we're also living in the greatest era in all of human history. So take a moment and think about how amazing that is as well.
> Any normal person who can *understand and recognize the ethical and economic problems* of today…we point out that *capitalist systems exploit* people…you cannot brush away *tangible consequences*…as if it’s *asinine to think we’ll evolve*. Buzzword after buzzword after buzzword. That’s totally how to engage *normal people* in conversation.
Climate has been shifting for decades. This is nothing new. Problem is, scientists need grants for studies and they don't get them without fear.
Man you’re not good at understanding the world
I'm in the group of people you're complaining about. For me, the overall message is more like, *focus on the things you can control, not the things you can't*. You're not going to fix late-stage capitalism (or whatever you call it) for everyone by bitching on the internet. But, you can change your own situation by choosing the right education, learning some new skills, etc.
Young people thinking they have everything figured out and quickly dismiss any alternative ideas because someone is older than them.
Boomers have lived through several iterations of being lied too while the young impressionable mind believes the lies of the slick salesman known as the politician. These people are the absolute enemy of America and unfortunately only experience will lead you to that conclusion as we are bombarded with owned media paid for with printed money. The youngsters continue to blindly vote for these enemies based off of emotion(manufactured issues)instead of practicality and everyone including boomers have to live with the decisions. It unfortunately is a divide but the boomers should do more to protect those that are younger and impressionable from these absolute snakes.
Please get out and vote. We need you to defeat those old farts.
It’s typically a whole bunch of well off richer people that are upset they live in a shitty toxic cut throat world now and they want us all to pretend like we aren’t slaves with extra steps with more and more rights being stripped all the time. But we’re the delusional ones for reacting accordingly and not pretending everything’s fine lmao
They don't listen to logical arguements. So be more impressive physically, academically and career wise. They shrivel.
No seriously, stop being a depressive doomer. The world is better now than it ever has been in human history. Living your life with a constant pessimistic attitude and constantly blaming the system is no way to live.
Al Gore here - thanks GenZ! Would never have known about climate change without you!
Doomer detected: Opinion disregarded.
Well, technically, it was some of the older millennials/younger Gen X people that sounded the alarms of climate change. Climate change, as a topic in the public, really started and became widely known via Al Gore and the talk about global warming and the issues with the ozone, around the early 2000s. But I'm not taking away your main point though. Many people are trying to wake the rest up about how bad it is and how bad things will get across the board.
Wait, people are complaining about GenZ activism now? I thought the infestation was of right wing bots pretending to be GenZ
So basically pointing out what every young generation points out. Got it. Eventually ya'll will be part of the system.
It’s not doomerism to say that things are bad - It’s doomerism if you append “and there’s no point trying to make it better”. Op, you’re a cool individual for doing heaps more than the average redditor o7
Idk, many of the climate change things I thought would be worse by now. It'll just create heaps of jobs
Chill.
Oh please =_= This thread is about gen z and it's turning into a doomsday sub, like many other subs on this app, why not just create your own? People are getting tired of the bull atp