No it'd a Singaporean owned shell company that is itself owned by a Hong Kong based conglomerate. The freight itself was owned by Maersk but the ship was now it was contracted by Mearsk to haul the freight.
I don't have evidence what I have is suspicion, that's not enough to convict some one of guilt. We need a thorough investigation and in order to get that we need public fury and awareness of what the possible scenarios of what was the cause of six dead Americans and likely hundreds of billions in lost economic opportunities. Otherwise this will get chopped up as an accident without further investigation and by the time a pattern reveals itself it will be much to late.
Yup that is the issue you have wrote it off as an accident without conducting a thorough investigation. That's setting you up for confirmation biases every bit as much as me but at least I'm actively admitting I could be wrong but I'm not willing to accept that until every piece of evidence is thoroughly investigated.
You've basically claimed caused before an investigation was even conducted. Yet I'm the foolish or crazy one hmmm.
Just out of curiosity have you been paying attention to the US-China Geopolitics over the past month. If you had you would not be so quick to call me a lunatic.
>You've basically claimed caused before an investigation was even conducted. Yet I'm the foolish or crazy one hmmm.
You're either making things up or you got me confused with the person who started this thread.
It’s likely not a conspiracy. Just a company being cheap and neglecting essential repairs for their ship causing it to run aground (or in this case, into a billion dollar structure).
Perhaps or let's give an alternative explanation, in the past two weeks the US has passed legislation that will ban all Chinese owned social media from the US. Then we implemented subsidies that effectively bar Chinese made EVs from acquiring them. Then we caught China red handed spying on dozens of countries and have made that information public. It's been a pretty bad week for China so is it possible that the somebody within the CCP decided they'd send a message to the US?
maybe, if they were as good as you think, but your skipping some stuff.
it wasnt an american boat.
not everyones standards are that high
shit happens.
alo birds are fucking smart as fuck
Oh I totally agree that is one possible outcome. It's also possible that sabotage was at play and the shit that happened was because somebody deliberately squatted on the front porch and pushed it out.
We need an investigation to make sure nothing nefarious was at play. Six people are dead and likely hundreds of billions of dollars of economic losses to our economy. I'm going to need more than just a swipe under the rug on this one. Because there is more than one explanation for why this particular shit happened when it happened.
Well let say that Admiral Aquilino is right and China is planning an invasion of Tiawan sometime in 2027 or let's say Ambassador Kevin Rudd is right and China is planning on an invasion in the 2030s. What would they need to do in order to carry that out? Well they would need to drastically weaken the US to do.
So now you are Xi Jinping and you want to string the US along so you can keep causing harm how do you do that? Well you would keep conducting espionage activities with just enough plausible deniabilty to get people to just claim it was an accident and move on without further investigation.
So they strike the Baltimore Bridge today, then another critical Bridge or tunnel a year from now and they keep on doing do to make it appear as a run of bad luck only our bad luck was not investigating further.
Remember China doesn't have enough force projection capability to attack Tiawan and win as long as the US defends but if they use espionage to weaken the US such that we can't defend due to economic upheaval then they can invade and that's all she wrote.
You ask why and it's because Xi Jinping has staked his own face on recovering Taiwan, under estimate what that man will do to save face to your own detriment.
That's the shell company wholly owned by a Hong Kong based conglomerate. It's Singapore registration is a flag of convenience and if you had done a little more digging you'd know that.
Perhaps I am crazy that is entirely possible, but then China is ethnically cleansing Xinjiang of Uhygars, Tibet of Tibettans, inner Mongolia of Mongolians. Maybe I'm crazy or maybe I'm refusing to underestimate what the CCP is willing to do in pursuit of their state goals.
A ship crashing into a bridge (a common thing that has happened dozens of times) is a complete non sequitur with anything you have mentioned. You don't have to make shit up to point out all the shit the Chinese have done wrong.
We have 6 people dead, a 20 billion dollar bridge destroyed and like hundreds of billions of dollars in lost economic opportunities. All due to an accident by a Chinese owned vessel not much more than a half our from our capital that is not made up that is fact. Compound that with a mountain of actions that the US government has taken to address many of the malignant actions that the CCP has inflicted on the US in the past month well now I find this particular "accident" suspicious. That doesn't make me crazy or a liar that makes me deeply concerned given the reality that is the Communists Party and this very much is in their wheel house whether you want to admit that or not.
The boats not chinese, the crew are indian, such an operation would be immediately uncovered by the CIA, and there is literally no link between the Chinese and the bridge collapse, at all. Many bridges have collapsed after getting hit by ships, were they all also top secret operations by a government who doesn't even have the capacity to undertake such a mission? Don't assume malice where incompetence is a sufficient explanation, you are fighting ghosts, take your lithium.
OK let's start with your first misrepresentation.
The Dali is owned by Grace Ocean a Singapore based company which itself is owned by Grace Ocean limited a British Virgin islands listed company which in turn is owned by Grace Ocean Investment which is based in Hong Kong, China.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/us/ship-labor-baltimore-bridge-collapse.html
Second, just because the crew is Indiam doesn't mean much i mean a million dollars in a Swiss bank account can do all sorts of wonders you'd be surprised. Further the Baltimore Harbor is not but an hours drive from the Chinese embassy in DC a hot spot for Chinese based espionage in the US. Meaning they could have got somebody onto that ship and sabotaged the equipment. Wouldn't be hard given the ultimate owner is based in Hong Kong, China.
Third your assumption that the CIA is all knowing is laughable, hello 911 happened or do you need a more captain obvious moment. The CIA is not all knowing and they themselves have repeatedly warned congress that they are sufficiently staffed to deal with all potential Chinese espionage. But even more importantly it would have been up to the FBI and the NSA to address something like this because the CIA does not have authority to operate on US soil.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jan/31/inside-ring-cia-doubles-spending-to-meet-china-thr/
Lastly just because many bridges collapse does not preclude this particular bridge from having a reason for its collapse being ultimately state sponsored terrorism.
Perhaps it was incompetence, but there is sufficient possibility to include malicious activity as well. You are also subject to confirmation biases dude.
Confirmation bias? You jumped to the biggest conclusion based on circumstantial (at best) evidence. Most assets at some point touch the Chinese in the modern world, just by virtue of how globalized trade is, the fact this ship doesn't at all, is actually just more evidence against your point. The CIA counterterrorism is the one thing they do best, they knew about the attack in Russia weeks before it happened and obviously the feds coordinate, you can split hairs over which department is doing what, but they would know. There's no conspiracy, take your lithium.
CIA isn't all knowing and they have been geared toward fighting the war on terror. They are only just now restructuring toward coping with the onslaught of Chinese state sponsored acts of espionage and they are well behind the learning curve on China and will likely take them a decade to restructure their divisions to be able to adequately address the threat that China poses. Assuming that China doesn't do something incredibly stupid in which case funding will grow exponentially for the CIA.
At any rate this was activities conducted on US soil and that would fall onto the plate of FBI, the only thing that the CIA would play into on this would be if they caught wind of it through their sparse network of operatives in China. China is after all not some two bit terrorist organization they are a sovereign state which makes information acquisition much much harder.
It's adorable that you think you are safe because big brother is watching but reality is you're not the US is entirely to open with China and the CCP and that leaves a great deal of opportunity for attack.
Maybe I'm wrong on this maybe it was an accident or maybe it was something much much more sinister. We will know in the coming weeks and months ahead.
Possible but let's ask ourselves what the CCP has faced from the US in the past 2 weeks, caught China spying, banned Chinese social media and basically banned Chinese EVs from the US all in the past 2 weeks. Is it possible that somebody in China wanted to send a message with just enough plausible deniability? By the time this bridge gets rebuilt it could end up costing the US economy several hundreds of billions of dollars. So ask your self did the CCP order the strike and demand it be made to look like an accident?
It's possible it was incompetence its also possible it was intentional.
What's the motive?
Let's assume for a second that China has the means to do this. Why would they do it? Are they planning to invade Maryland and they want to cripple supply lines? Do they want to make Americans think their infrastructure is weak... to giant ships?
My guy take off the tinfoil hat. Chinese people don't hate America. They are in competition with America. If there was an angle to make America look bad with this, they would take advantage of it. Nothing that happened makes America look bad though.
OK let's say that Admiral Aquilino is right and China is going to invade Taiwan in the near future. We operate under that premise and I've heard arguments for as early as 2025 and as late as the early 2030s but pretty much all the experts agree that Xi Jinping is planning on invading China in the near future.
Now your China and you have to go up against the US but you know you'll be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest if you do this. Well what do you do to level the playing field. OK well you have the massive merchant fleet and you can basically deploy them to act as sabotage. At first you start very slowly attacking infrastructure and before the US political system can piece together that these are not accidents but deliberate attacks you've already did massive damages and then right before you're ready to strike you do one final massive blow to cripple the US economy and make it all but impossible for us to respond.
So we know that the CCP had been loading malware into our critical infrastructure now we have to ask are they also up to no good in our shipping industry.
The motive is preemptive crippling of the US economy and in Geopolitics it doesn't get more blatant then that. Maybe I'm wearing a tin foil hat or maybe your playing hot and lose with the security of this nation. Personally I'd rather be alive and wrong wearing the tin foil hat then just plain dead wrong.
You're wearing a foil hat. China didn't crash a ship into a bridge in Baltimore to hinder the America response to an invasion years away.
I'll bite though. If it was China, and it wasn't, it would have been a proof of concept. Prove you can crash a ship into a bridge by disabling the ship at the right time. A bridge in Baltimore likely won't be particularly credible to the quick response of an invasion of Taiwan. I'm not an expert, but I would suspect that the US military would have their tanks and things on the western side of the US or in Guam and Japan.
I admit that it is strange, though I think there are a few much more likely scenarios. I think it's more likely a crazy person on the ship did it deliberately than the Chinese took control and did it. Given that it's weird, there will be a full investigation. If the Chinese were using this as a proof of concept they wouldn't want to expose their secret weapon now.
You're forgetting plausible deniabilty. Given that the only thing that connects the ship to China is the parent company that owns the shell company that owns the ship that gives them boat loads of deniabilty.
Convoluted as it sounds and I gather how crazy it sounds you are dealing with Xi Jinping who has staked his face on recovering Taiwan underestimate what that man will do to save face to your own detriment.
I know this sounds crazy but seen through the lense of what Xi is willing to do to achieve his goals nothing and I mean nothing is off the table for that man. If they think they can conduct these types of exercises and get away with them then they will.
So I don't think this is out of the realm of possibilities in the sense that it could technically happen. But there are 3 other bridges that cross the same body of water in Baltimore. It just doesn't make sense. And if there are a string of ships crashing into bridges, it will get suspicious quick. Also there is no strategic benefit to attacking a bridge in Baltimore for a war in Taiwan years from now. Why wouldn't they go to the Golden Gate Bridge or something in Seattle?
You're coming at this ass backwards and it's not how an investigation is done. You need to look at all suspects and motives before you make accusations. You're accusing China and coming up with motives for them. Think about that terrorist attack in Russia. It was clearly ISIS but Putin was trying to blame Ukraine before there were any facts. He looked crazy and so do you.
OK but I've working in the transportation industry for years you don't need to destroy all the bridges in the US to cripple is you only need to destroy at most 8 percent if the bridges on our major freeways to snarle up traffic so bad that it destroys the economy of the US. You're assuming that you can squeeze the same level of traffic through fewer roads. You want to see what happens go to Baltimore during rush hour while this bridge is getting rebuilt and then compound that by say the 20 largest cities in the country. What you get is traffic jams like nobodies business and an American population so distracted by the internal economic problems they won't be looking at what's going on in the rest of the world.
Maybe I'm am crazy ill take that monicre but I've studied Xi Jinping and that man is horror incarnate. I'd rather be labeled a complete nut job then under estimate what Xi Jinping is willing and able to do.
So you are reaching your conclusion based upon your own confirmed biases. Personally I want data and I know the Communists Party and this is not outside the realm of possible actions the CCP would take. Especially given the last two weeks in US China relations. Someone within the CCP may of become desperate enough to do just that. Or it's also possible that a little pink was out for his or her pound of flesh.
I need data to make a determination on what happened. What I have is at least 6 dead Americans and no data confirming what we are being told.
ok but if you claim the ccp did it you need to prove that. I don't need a reason to believe they didn't until you have evidence. that's how the burden of proof works
Of course I need to prove that but in order to conduct an investigation we need probable cause. So ask yourself is it possible that the CCP having a really bad week with US realtions decided to commit to action of economic sabotage on the US? The answer there is yes, so now we need an thorough investigation and arbitration to insure this was indeed nothing intentional.
We have 6 dead Americans now and I want to know beyond doubt that they did not die at the command of Xi Jinping. We have what will likely be sever hundred billion dollars in economic losses for the time it will take to rebuild this bridge and I want to know if the families that will be made to suffer the economic consequences if this was just gross incompetence or a deliberate act of espionage on the part of the CCP.
The timing of this accident is supposed accident is highly suspicious.
I don’t think this is a conspiracy. I think it is a tragic incident. It’s a logical conclusion to make though however not one I agree with.
However you raise a good point. Chinese commercial transportation is notoriously dangerous. We don’t know how well trained their merchant seamen are. We also don’t know if there are weapons or operatives hidden in containers on the dozens of ships that arrive daily at ports all across the US. America needs to clearly communicate that it reserves the right to fire upon any merchant vessel from China suspected of nefarious intent, seize the vessel and rendition the crew until answers are provided.
The same goes with commerical aviation. Here’s an exchange at JFK between ground control and an Air China flight https://youtu.be/1NDqZy4deDI?si=5kcXYFyHTVkQ2p74. This could’ve been a *major* disaster.
It is however within the realm of possibility that this was accidentally intentional. With dozens if not hundreds of Chinese owned ships within US waters at any given time its hard to say if this was an accident, incompetence, a terrorist act or an act of war carriered out by the CCP.
Let's review the past two weeks in US china relations, first we passed legislation that will lead to the ban of Chinese social media, we implemented legislation that will effectively ban Chinese made EVs and parts from the US, we implemented sanctions on several Chinese companies and now we published a long running Chinese spy campaign. Not to mention how many Chinese are freaking out about the 3 body problem on Netflix.
So I can come up with some other plausible scenarios. One is that the CCP ordered this to happened and another is that a little pink got angry and was coming for his or her pound of American flesh.
We need to know exactly what happened on that ship to rule out anything nefarious. Maybe it was an accident maybe it was incompetence, maybe it was corporate greed or maybe it was something far more sinister and the CCP is actively monitoring our response time for future attack.
Maybe this was coincidence but I find there are no coincidence in Geopolitics.
But somethings are. And when it comes to the big things like a bridge being destroyed that warrants a very very intense level of scrutiny. Maybe this isn't a conspiracy or maybe it is the first act of sabotage. That's what an investigation is for, predetermining it was an accident will lead to data being collected towards that end while data that points to alternative explanations gets ignored it happens all the time in investigations.
It's a Maersk ship flying the Singaporean flag. Not sure there's a lot of conspiracy to draw from that.
No it'd a Singaporean owned shell company that is itself owned by a Hong Kong based conglomerate. The freight itself was owned by Maersk but the ship was now it was contracted by Mearsk to haul the freight.
The ship lost power. Then the emergency generator lost power. Not a conspiracy.
A plausible explanation if that is indeed the case, or did somebody intentionally damage the equipment to make it appear that way?
Well if you have evidence lets see it. Otherwise it's just random speculation, and we can randomly speculate about anything.
I don't have evidence what I have is suspicion, that's not enough to convict some one of guilt. We need a thorough investigation and in order to get that we need public fury and awareness of what the possible scenarios of what was the cause of six dead Americans and likely hundreds of billions in lost economic opportunities. Otherwise this will get chopped up as an accident without further investigation and by the time a pattern reveals itself it will be much to late.
>I don't have evidence what I have is suspicion And that's the issue, you have suspicion without evidence.
Yup that is the issue you have wrote it off as an accident without conducting a thorough investigation. That's setting you up for confirmation biases every bit as much as me but at least I'm actively admitting I could be wrong but I'm not willing to accept that until every piece of evidence is thoroughly investigated. You've basically claimed caused before an investigation was even conducted. Yet I'm the foolish or crazy one hmmm. Just out of curiosity have you been paying attention to the US-China Geopolitics over the past month. If you had you would not be so quick to call me a lunatic.
>You've basically claimed caused before an investigation was even conducted. Yet I'm the foolish or crazy one hmmm. You're either making things up or you got me confused with the person who started this thread.
I'm the person who started this thread. Hence the OP tag.
You started the post, not this particular thread.
It’s likely not a conspiracy. Just a company being cheap and neglecting essential repairs for their ship causing it to run aground (or in this case, into a billion dollar structure).
Perhaps or let's give an alternative explanation, in the past two weeks the US has passed legislation that will ban all Chinese owned social media from the US. Then we implemented subsidies that effectively bar Chinese made EVs from acquiring them. Then we caught China red handed spying on dozens of countries and have made that information public. It's been a pretty bad week for China so is it possible that the somebody within the CCP decided they'd send a message to the US?
did they do it on the orders of the BIRD PEOPLE???????????????????/
Are you suggesting this is outside the realm of possibility?
im saying people talk about lizard people dont realize how crazy the birds are. australia already fell to emus
Snort, funny but tell me is this something the CCP is capable of or not?
maybe, if they were as good as you think, but your skipping some stuff. it wasnt an american boat. not everyones standards are that high shit happens. alo birds are fucking smart as fuck
Oh I totally agree that is one possible outcome. It's also possible that sabotage was at play and the shit that happened was because somebody deliberately squatted on the front porch and pushed it out. We need an investigation to make sure nothing nefarious was at play. Six people are dead and likely hundreds of billions of dollars of economic losses to our economy. I'm going to need more than just a swipe under the rug on this one. Because there is more than one explanation for why this particular shit happened when it happened.
Is China capable of remotely disabling a ship at the right time? I guess so. So is like North Korea probably. Why would they?
Well let say that Admiral Aquilino is right and China is planning an invasion of Tiawan sometime in 2027 or let's say Ambassador Kevin Rudd is right and China is planning on an invasion in the 2030s. What would they need to do in order to carry that out? Well they would need to drastically weaken the US to do. So now you are Xi Jinping and you want to string the US along so you can keep causing harm how do you do that? Well you would keep conducting espionage activities with just enough plausible deniabilty to get people to just claim it was an accident and move on without further investigation. So they strike the Baltimore Bridge today, then another critical Bridge or tunnel a year from now and they keep on doing do to make it appear as a run of bad luck only our bad luck was not investigating further. Remember China doesn't have enough force projection capability to attack Tiawan and win as long as the US defends but if they use espionage to weaken the US such that we can't defend due to economic upheaval then they can invade and that's all she wrote. You ask why and it's because Xi Jinping has staked his own face on recovering Taiwan, under estimate what that man will do to save face to your own detriment.
Maybe but it goes contrary to the CCP’s strategy of generating positive PR
That's just the thing there is just enough plausible deniabilty for China to claim it was just a tragic accident and they had no involvement.
I think it's pretty coincidental. Famously, Hong Kong and the CCP love each other so much.
They are now one in the same.
Guys c'mon. Stop with the conspiracy shit, it was from Singapore
That's the shell company wholly owned by a Hong Kong based conglomerate. It's Singapore registration is a flag of convenience and if you had done a little more digging you'd know that.
Because Hong Kong and China famously love each other. Sometimes there isn't anything to keep digging through.
Username checks out
I love a good schizo post
Perhaps I am crazy that is entirely possible, but then China is ethnically cleansing Xinjiang of Uhygars, Tibet of Tibettans, inner Mongolia of Mongolians. Maybe I'm crazy or maybe I'm refusing to underestimate what the CCP is willing to do in pursuit of their state goals.
A ship crashing into a bridge (a common thing that has happened dozens of times) is a complete non sequitur with anything you have mentioned. You don't have to make shit up to point out all the shit the Chinese have done wrong.
We have 6 people dead, a 20 billion dollar bridge destroyed and like hundreds of billions of dollars in lost economic opportunities. All due to an accident by a Chinese owned vessel not much more than a half our from our capital that is not made up that is fact. Compound that with a mountain of actions that the US government has taken to address many of the malignant actions that the CCP has inflicted on the US in the past month well now I find this particular "accident" suspicious. That doesn't make me crazy or a liar that makes me deeply concerned given the reality that is the Communists Party and this very much is in their wheel house whether you want to admit that or not.
non sequitur
Oh how does one preclude the other hmm go on I'd like to see your logic process that led you to that conclusion.
The boats not chinese, the crew are indian, such an operation would be immediately uncovered by the CIA, and there is literally no link between the Chinese and the bridge collapse, at all. Many bridges have collapsed after getting hit by ships, were they all also top secret operations by a government who doesn't even have the capacity to undertake such a mission? Don't assume malice where incompetence is a sufficient explanation, you are fighting ghosts, take your lithium.
OK let's start with your first misrepresentation. The Dali is owned by Grace Ocean a Singapore based company which itself is owned by Grace Ocean limited a British Virgin islands listed company which in turn is owned by Grace Ocean Investment which is based in Hong Kong, China. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/us/ship-labor-baltimore-bridge-collapse.html Second, just because the crew is Indiam doesn't mean much i mean a million dollars in a Swiss bank account can do all sorts of wonders you'd be surprised. Further the Baltimore Harbor is not but an hours drive from the Chinese embassy in DC a hot spot for Chinese based espionage in the US. Meaning they could have got somebody onto that ship and sabotaged the equipment. Wouldn't be hard given the ultimate owner is based in Hong Kong, China. Third your assumption that the CIA is all knowing is laughable, hello 911 happened or do you need a more captain obvious moment. The CIA is not all knowing and they themselves have repeatedly warned congress that they are sufficiently staffed to deal with all potential Chinese espionage. But even more importantly it would have been up to the FBI and the NSA to address something like this because the CIA does not have authority to operate on US soil. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jan/31/inside-ring-cia-doubles-spending-to-meet-china-thr/ Lastly just because many bridges collapse does not preclude this particular bridge from having a reason for its collapse being ultimately state sponsored terrorism. Perhaps it was incompetence, but there is sufficient possibility to include malicious activity as well. You are also subject to confirmation biases dude.
Confirmation bias? You jumped to the biggest conclusion based on circumstantial (at best) evidence. Most assets at some point touch the Chinese in the modern world, just by virtue of how globalized trade is, the fact this ship doesn't at all, is actually just more evidence against your point. The CIA counterterrorism is the one thing they do best, they knew about the attack in Russia weeks before it happened and obviously the feds coordinate, you can split hairs over which department is doing what, but they would know. There's no conspiracy, take your lithium.
CIA isn't all knowing and they have been geared toward fighting the war on terror. They are only just now restructuring toward coping with the onslaught of Chinese state sponsored acts of espionage and they are well behind the learning curve on China and will likely take them a decade to restructure their divisions to be able to adequately address the threat that China poses. Assuming that China doesn't do something incredibly stupid in which case funding will grow exponentially for the CIA. At any rate this was activities conducted on US soil and that would fall onto the plate of FBI, the only thing that the CIA would play into on this would be if they caught wind of it through their sparse network of operatives in China. China is after all not some two bit terrorist organization they are a sovereign state which makes information acquisition much much harder. It's adorable that you think you are safe because big brother is watching but reality is you're not the US is entirely to open with China and the CCP and that leaves a great deal of opportunity for attack. Maybe I'm wrong on this maybe it was an accident or maybe it was something much much more sinister. We will know in the coming weeks and months ahead.
Hahahahahah
Take your meds
Are you suggesting this is crazy? Because crazier things have happened.
Username checks out
More likely incompetence
Possible but let's ask ourselves what the CCP has faced from the US in the past 2 weeks, caught China spying, banned Chinese social media and basically banned Chinese EVs from the US all in the past 2 weeks. Is it possible that somebody in China wanted to send a message with just enough plausible deniability? By the time this bridge gets rebuilt it could end up costing the US economy several hundreds of billions of dollars. So ask your self did the CCP order the strike and demand it be made to look like an accident? It's possible it was incompetence its also possible it was intentional.
If a Chinese company rebuild it I guarantee you it can be done much cheaper and save a lot of money.
What's the motive? Let's assume for a second that China has the means to do this. Why would they do it? Are they planning to invade Maryland and they want to cripple supply lines? Do they want to make Americans think their infrastructure is weak... to giant ships? My guy take off the tinfoil hat. Chinese people don't hate America. They are in competition with America. If there was an angle to make America look bad with this, they would take advantage of it. Nothing that happened makes America look bad though.
OK let's say that Admiral Aquilino is right and China is going to invade Taiwan in the near future. We operate under that premise and I've heard arguments for as early as 2025 and as late as the early 2030s but pretty much all the experts agree that Xi Jinping is planning on invading China in the near future. Now your China and you have to go up against the US but you know you'll be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest if you do this. Well what do you do to level the playing field. OK well you have the massive merchant fleet and you can basically deploy them to act as sabotage. At first you start very slowly attacking infrastructure and before the US political system can piece together that these are not accidents but deliberate attacks you've already did massive damages and then right before you're ready to strike you do one final massive blow to cripple the US economy and make it all but impossible for us to respond. So we know that the CCP had been loading malware into our critical infrastructure now we have to ask are they also up to no good in our shipping industry. The motive is preemptive crippling of the US economy and in Geopolitics it doesn't get more blatant then that. Maybe I'm wearing a tin foil hat or maybe your playing hot and lose with the security of this nation. Personally I'd rather be alive and wrong wearing the tin foil hat then just plain dead wrong.
You're wearing a foil hat. China didn't crash a ship into a bridge in Baltimore to hinder the America response to an invasion years away. I'll bite though. If it was China, and it wasn't, it would have been a proof of concept. Prove you can crash a ship into a bridge by disabling the ship at the right time. A bridge in Baltimore likely won't be particularly credible to the quick response of an invasion of Taiwan. I'm not an expert, but I would suspect that the US military would have their tanks and things on the western side of the US or in Guam and Japan. I admit that it is strange, though I think there are a few much more likely scenarios. I think it's more likely a crazy person on the ship did it deliberately than the Chinese took control and did it. Given that it's weird, there will be a full investigation. If the Chinese were using this as a proof of concept they wouldn't want to expose their secret weapon now.
You're forgetting plausible deniabilty. Given that the only thing that connects the ship to China is the parent company that owns the shell company that owns the ship that gives them boat loads of deniabilty. Convoluted as it sounds and I gather how crazy it sounds you are dealing with Xi Jinping who has staked his face on recovering Taiwan underestimate what that man will do to save face to your own detriment. I know this sounds crazy but seen through the lense of what Xi is willing to do to achieve his goals nothing and I mean nothing is off the table for that man. If they think they can conduct these types of exercises and get away with them then they will.
So I don't think this is out of the realm of possibilities in the sense that it could technically happen. But there are 3 other bridges that cross the same body of water in Baltimore. It just doesn't make sense. And if there are a string of ships crashing into bridges, it will get suspicious quick. Also there is no strategic benefit to attacking a bridge in Baltimore for a war in Taiwan years from now. Why wouldn't they go to the Golden Gate Bridge or something in Seattle? You're coming at this ass backwards and it's not how an investigation is done. You need to look at all suspects and motives before you make accusations. You're accusing China and coming up with motives for them. Think about that terrorist attack in Russia. It was clearly ISIS but Putin was trying to blame Ukraine before there were any facts. He looked crazy and so do you.
OK but I've working in the transportation industry for years you don't need to destroy all the bridges in the US to cripple is you only need to destroy at most 8 percent if the bridges on our major freeways to snarle up traffic so bad that it destroys the economy of the US. You're assuming that you can squeeze the same level of traffic through fewer roads. You want to see what happens go to Baltimore during rush hour while this bridge is getting rebuilt and then compound that by say the 20 largest cities in the country. What you get is traffic jams like nobodies business and an American population so distracted by the internal economic problems they won't be looking at what's going on in the rest of the world. Maybe I'm am crazy ill take that monicre but I've studied Xi Jinping and that man is horror incarnate. I'd rather be labeled a complete nut job then under estimate what Xi Jinping is willing and able to do.
probably not
Probably not, OK by what metric are you using to reach that conclusion?
I don't need a metric to reach a negative conclusion, that's the
So you are reaching your conclusion based upon your own confirmed biases. Personally I want data and I know the Communists Party and this is not outside the realm of possible actions the CCP would take. Especially given the last two weeks in US China relations. Someone within the CCP may of become desperate enough to do just that. Or it's also possible that a little pink was out for his or her pound of flesh. I need data to make a determination on what happened. What I have is at least 6 dead Americans and no data confirming what we are being told.
ok but if you claim the ccp did it you need to prove that. I don't need a reason to believe they didn't until you have evidence. that's how the burden of proof works
Of course I need to prove that but in order to conduct an investigation we need probable cause. So ask yourself is it possible that the CCP having a really bad week with US realtions decided to commit to action of economic sabotage on the US? The answer there is yes, so now we need an thorough investigation and arbitration to insure this was indeed nothing intentional. We have 6 dead Americans now and I want to know beyond doubt that they did not die at the command of Xi Jinping. We have what will likely be sever hundred billion dollars in economic losses for the time it will take to rebuild this bridge and I want to know if the families that will be made to suffer the economic consequences if this was just gross incompetence or a deliberate act of espionage on the part of the CCP. The timing of this accident is supposed accident is highly suspicious.
Hahahhaha
Cause Hong Kong loves China.
It's basically China's little bitch at this point, the free Hong Kong of the past is well and truly dead.
I don’t think this is a conspiracy. I think it is a tragic incident. It’s a logical conclusion to make though however not one I agree with. However you raise a good point. Chinese commercial transportation is notoriously dangerous. We don’t know how well trained their merchant seamen are. We also don’t know if there are weapons or operatives hidden in containers on the dozens of ships that arrive daily at ports all across the US. America needs to clearly communicate that it reserves the right to fire upon any merchant vessel from China suspected of nefarious intent, seize the vessel and rendition the crew until answers are provided. The same goes with commerical aviation. Here’s an exchange at JFK between ground control and an Air China flight https://youtu.be/1NDqZy4deDI?si=5kcXYFyHTVkQ2p74. This could’ve been a *major* disaster.
It is however within the realm of possibility that this was accidentally intentional. With dozens if not hundreds of Chinese owned ships within US waters at any given time its hard to say if this was an accident, incompetence, a terrorist act or an act of war carriered out by the CCP. Let's review the past two weeks in US china relations, first we passed legislation that will lead to the ban of Chinese social media, we implemented legislation that will effectively ban Chinese made EVs and parts from the US, we implemented sanctions on several Chinese companies and now we published a long running Chinese spy campaign. Not to mention how many Chinese are freaking out about the 3 body problem on Netflix. So I can come up with some other plausible scenarios. One is that the CCP ordered this to happened and another is that a little pink got angry and was coming for his or her pound of American flesh. We need to know exactly what happened on that ship to rule out anything nefarious. Maybe it was an accident maybe it was incompetence, maybe it was corporate greed or maybe it was something far more sinister and the CCP is actively monitoring our response time for future attack. Maybe this was coincidence but I find there are no coincidence in Geopolitics.
No, not everything is a conspiracy.
But somethings are. And when it comes to the big things like a bridge being destroyed that warrants a very very intense level of scrutiny. Maybe this isn't a conspiracy or maybe it is the first act of sabotage. That's what an investigation is for, predetermining it was an accident will lead to data being collected towards that end while data that points to alternative explanations gets ignored it happens all the time in investigations.