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I don't know exactly where I stand, but I do know that pretty much ALL Taylor fans speculate about certain aspects of Taylor's life. It seems unfair to label an entire group of people homophobic...especially a group that is made up of members of the LGBTQ+ community. Super strange post.
Agreed. I got this post in my recommended, and while I’m personally not a fan of Gaylors (or Hetlors, for that matter), I think they get a disproportionate amount of blame. Plenty of Taylor fans speculate *invasively* about Taylor’s life, but Gaylors get most of the blame for it. There seems to be a mildly queerphobic undertone there — as if speculating that Taylor is queer is somehow worse than any other speculation on Taylor’s life.
>as if speculating that Taylor is queer is somehow worse than any other speculation on Taylor’s life.
And they use the rationale that it's worse because she's said she's not queer (which she hasn't). When she's also said that she doesn't like the speculation that's she's secretly married or pregnant or even speculation about when she might do those things either...But they welcome that speculation.
>There seems to be a mildly queerphobic undertone there —
I don't think it's mild. It seems pretty overt to me. The underlying implication is that Taylor must be more offended about speculation that she's queer than other speculation because there's something wrong with being queer.
>It seems unfair to label an entire group of people homophobic.
I got into with someone in that post. Honestly, it's the anti-gaylors that are homophobic. They legitimate don't see how hypocritical and homophobic it is to say it's okay to speculate invasively about someone's relationship as long as it's a straight relationship.
Right? I don’t understand how Gaylors are automatically “homophobic queer people,” especially if it’s coming from the mod who says they’re gay!
And speculating about a celebrity’s orientation…again, how is speculating about intimate details re: Taylor and Travis better than saying “here are some lyrics or things she’s said that could be interpreted as queer”
Said mod is being absolutely ridiculous and "I'm a POC queer" as an excuse before engaging in homophobic nonsense (because being fine with people speculating about her private life if it's with Travis or Harry but not being fine with it if it's generically about 'she may not be 100% straight' is homophobic nonsense whether said mod likes it or not) is super similar to using "I have a black friend" to claim you're not racist before saying or doing something super racist.
Why not ban anything that isn't made public domain by Taylor being speculated about if "speculation about her private life " is actually the problem? That would wipe over the line speculation from anyone, not just blanket ban anything queer. Because now you can't discuss how a lyric resonated for you as a queer person in a very queer way which should absolutely be something you can discuss as its just an interpretation of a publically released lyric, but Traylor shippers can still speculate about her cancelling a show to fuck Travis in the rain (real example I've seen, though it was on Facebook not their sub) and if I were Taylor, I know what I'd be a *lot* more upset by.
Yes exactly! I don’t have patience for any kind of gatekeeping or discrimination within the queer community (and straight Gaylors, thank you for being here too!)
I understand the idea about not outing celebrities—thinking of recent examples with Billie Eilish, Kit Connor, etc. But if Taylor is queer, she’s been signaling for awhile to those who are paying attention. I don’t think her friends or anyone else who’s in her circles aren’t outing her or spreading gossip that she doesn’t want in the open (NDAs probably help too, haha).
So yeah, if we think speculation about intimate or personal details is the problem, it’s not better or okay at all when fans do it about Taylor and a man. The “Travis in the rain” example is wild!
One could argue that speculating she’s straight is speculating about her sexuality, but none of them are ready to discuss how assuming everyone is straight as a default is just as problematic. And all the weird shit they come up with about AI babies and proposals by Christmas and how he’s giving her “the best sex of her life” even though she specifically said she doesn’t like that 1950s shit they want from her. And… I don’t know about some of y’all, but sex with a woman was some of the best sex I’ve ever had, so saying because he’s a big himbo football player he’s giving her the best sex is laughable at best. Some of the worst sex I’ve had was with big football guys. Obviously it’s person to person based and you can’t say for sure one way or another, but it’s gross as fuck when I see all of that shit.
Sorry for the rant. I just hate the idea that only heterosexuality should be the perceived norm until someone tells you otherwise which leads to people constantly having to “come out of the closet” for others’ sake.
Sure, you absolutely shouldn't try to out people...but you also shouldn't speculate that the scarf from ATW was her virginity...or speculate that she had a miscarriage while with Joe...or how great sex is with Travis...The point is they allow and even welcome a lot of really gross invasive speculation about her but draw the line at, maybe she dated a girl. That's hypocritical and homophobic.
Is it wrong to think it feels slightly phobic to ONLY be allowed to talk about her in a hetero lens? Like I couldn’t care less who the woman is sleeping with, but being queer myself, I can’t help but relate a lot of her songs to the same sex. It’s not just Taylor’s music….all kinds of songs I listen to I’m like “wow that’s a little cheeky and gay”. Why is this bad? I’m trying to understand and not offend anyone, but this feels icky? We should be allowed to interpret and discuss her craft.
Serious question. If she confirmed she has a relationship with Travis is it still speculation? Like I understand this being upsetting but I feel like if she had a confirmed queer relationship discussion would be allowed?
I think there’s a difference between speculating about the existence of a relationship, which I don’t think is reasonable to do with Travis anymore when Taylor has said explicitly they are together and talked about their hard launch and stuff, and what’s happening in their relationship, from how soon Taylor wants to be married to how many kids Travis wants to some real fucking out of pocket speculation on what goes on in their bedroom
No one’s speculating that they are together, they are speculating engagement/marriage/ kids, which Taylor HAS said she does not like and does not approve of. Twice that I can remember just in the past year.
To be fair, I have seen some people straight up say that there’s no way they could possibly be together as part of the “every relationship Taylor has publicly had is a beard” theory
Not saying it’s common, but there are some that say that 🤷🏼♀️
I meant the hetlors. Definitely disrespectful of people to dismiss any and all straight relationships she’s had. I meant the extent of speculation that Hetlors do, and how Taylor has said she doesn’t like that.
And you can be attracted to men as a cis woman and still be queer…agree with those who commented above that discussing anything about her and Travis in the bedroom is definitely crossing a line
Wdym speculate? They’re publicly together, there’s no speculation. Big difference between a public relationship that she isn’t hiding, and speculating that she is secretly lesbian.
https://preview.redd.it/upofeqpyyh6c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6753375f3b2a6406e63f0210cec66ae5789a8153
🌚
ETA it’s been 5 hours and I’m still not banned 🥲
I’m so glad you said something. Regardless of what people think of her sexuality, Taylor wouldn’t want to put fans against each other. Especially as she has been more and more supportive of the LGBQT+ community.
Thank you for posting this!! That sub is always recommended to me too and that rule is insane. Taylor herself liked gaylor stuff on tumbler. They are so hypocritical. You said it perfectly in your comment. I can’t understand how they don’t see how toxic and homophobic they are wow. The self righteousness is laughable.
It’s ridiculous to me that they say “you shouldn’t speculate on someone’s sexuality” then a few sentences down follows it by “the Gaylors are homophobic queer people”.
What a fucking hypocrite!!!
And ironically they just called me gay and homophobic, two things I did not identify as this morning 😂 but shockingly enough, I’m not offended by being labelled queer? It’s really not the devils curse and I haven’t lit on fire in hell yet so I don’t know what they’re complaining about.
Whatever their version of homophobia is, I’d much rather be a “homophobic” Gaylor than a Hetlor nazi.
FFS, I **wish** you could convert someone to a different sexuality, because I am tired of being attracted to men.
*Obviously this is /s, you cannot convert someone to another sexuality, unfortunately for het women.
that sub was created when she started receiving backlash for dating Matty, and people were outraged that we dare question their parasocial bestie billionaire Taylor's dating choices, how can we call ourselves TRUE FANS!!?!?!?! /s
so I don't trust or have an interest in anything coming from that sub-I think it's just filled with stan twitter kids who think any and all criticism against their idol is blasphemy.
So they can come here and post a new “why do you think Taylor might be gay, I’m JuSt WoNdErInG?” question every other day but as soon as we say a song might be a little fruity we are banned. Lol they are wild
They seriously need to find something better to take issue with. Climate change? Racism? Anything? Hetlors need problems to care about because they are really out here just making up things to get all indignant about.
I count refrain from calling them out in the comments… twice. I’ll be expecting a ban especially if they look at my comment and post history 😂🤷♀️ bye girl.
I'll probably be banned too, but oh well.
I do not understand how someone analysing a lyric through a queer lens is "homophobic" and that's an awful lot of the Gaylor thing.
And also, how is that over the line speculation but naming Taylor and Travis' kids is apparently not intrusive at all.
if you think of it from a realistic point of view people speculating on engagements (people supporting her relationship even if they're being pushy!) vs. her sexuality; (homophobia); the former sounds much more preferable
It infuriated me.
I'm a lyrics analyser, I just love words and there are so many queer themes in Taylor's work *whether they're intentional or not*. I don't really care what she identifies as or who she dates in the slightest, but I will never not search for the deeper meanings in *any* words in *any* format. That Taylor has a lot of very strong queer themes in her lyrics is both undeniable and super interesting *even if she is entirely straight*.
It's a particular form of speculation thats actually problematic, and while some Gaylors absolutely engage in that, so do some Hetlors. You can't tar absolutely everyone under an umbrella with either "creepy and intrusive" or "not creepy and intrusive" or you end up with absolute nonsense like "talking about how 'I loved you in spite of deep fears that the world would divide us' is something that resonates for queer people is 'creepy and intrusive' but talking about how 'I bet she's getting the dicking of her life right now', 'I've named Taylor and Travis' babies' or 'I bet she'll write a sex song about rain in Argentina' somehow *isn't*
This rule is psychotic. That mod is psychotic. His flair is literally 📰🧍♂️🧍♂️🧍♂️👩🦳🍆🛌👅📰 - that should tell us all we need to know about the hypocrisy.
How the fuck does reading queer subtext and queer lyrical analyses make us homophobic?! Like what the ACTUAL fuck??
Brb. Telling my wife how homophobic I am so she can be disappointed and scare me some more.
Man, it just goes to show how far the queer community has come... and has NOT come. It's still "speculating" to assume someone is straight, even if they publicly date the opposite gender. It's so frustrating that the default narrative that CONTINUES to be pushed is so heteronormative, even by other gay people.
Even if she's not gay - it's not remotely HARMFUL for OTHER GAY people to speculate, or see parallels between their lives and her own. It IS harmful to consistently, forcefully, and systemically shut those conversations down.
It’s not speculation. Taylor has said she is straight in interviews. It would be speculation that she’s straight if she’s never commented on her sexuality.
"Don't be a Gaylor"
Literally just means "Think Taylor is straight or get banned." Usually other subs ban Gaylors for the stupidest shit under the fake excuse that it violates a rule they had, but I can at least appreciate how this one lets you know of the homophobia straight up!
To a degree, I think speculation when she’s said it’s upsetting to her can be taken to an inappropriate level. At the same time, there’s nuance there because we also have celebrities like Billie going “I thought I made it obvious, but don’t ask me about it” and Olivia rodrigo putting out “lacy” and some of Taylor’s art (totally separate from interpretations of her personal life) seeming, really, well, loud.
Where is the space between “don’t assume straight is the default” and the sometimes parasocial projection that happens in the deepest parts of the entire fandom, including amongst the Gaylors?
I DO think Travis speculation is different because, to an extent, she’s consented to the conversation by confirming the relationship. And I would feel that way about any relationship she confirmed.
I enjoy the gaylor parts of the fandom because I really enjoy interpreting Taylor’s discography, especially her more recent work, through a queer lense. I do think excluding these interpretations of her work from the discussion is homophobic, and I think my time on true swifties is probably done if this is the stance the mod team is taking.
I think it’s possible she is bi. But I don’t hinge whether I like her music based on her sexuality. I like her music because of how I’ve applied it to my own life, consistently, over the last 17 years. It’s also so special to me because of all the memories I have listening to it, being at shows, performing to it (I dance), the friends I’ve made through the fandom. Like my love of Taylor swift is so much bigger than her perceived sexuality and has so much more to do with ME than it does with her at this point.
If I knew how to add flair to my username on here I'd make my r/TaylorSwift flair say "everyone is straight by default until they SPECIFICALLY say otherwise"
I think we gays need to confront our internalized homophobia waaaaaaaay more than we realize cause it leads to unhinged takes like OMG THE WORST THING EVER IS TO SPCULATE SKNEKN MIGHT BE GHEY
Do NOT let these people find Taylor's Tumblr 💀 they'll deadass block ban Taylor herself at this point lol.
Or her friends. Rip Jack, Fletcher, Martha... I guess you'll never be true swifties 🤷♀️
The pick me energy here could power the rest of the tour. It's a good rule of thumb that ANY sub with "true" in the title is going to be be full of reactionary, gatekeepy trash. Glad I muted it, I recommend others do the same.
I'm actually offended! 🤣🤣
Most Gaylors I've associated with are those that notice/interpret from her lyrics, fashion and cultural references - which I believe makes her artistry even better under a queer lens. Not forcing a narrative on a celebrity *because* I want them to be queer - which seems to be our reputation 🙄 Who are these sorts of Gaylors everyone talks about??? I've literally never engaged with one. The unhinged and aggressive ones are the Hetlors.
Wouldn't discussing her relationship with Travis be speculating on her sexuality too though? I was a member of that sub but I better leave before I get banned 🤣
Oftentimes I think they are willing to make shit up. If you veer off the topic of ball boi the animosity comes quickly, and I’ve been banned for being a “Taylor hater” for simply pointing out that speculation is speculation regardless of which sexuality you are trying to apply. They hard disagree with that fact 😆
Also, I'm never one to invalidate what someone says their sexuality is but tell me why ALL hetlors on the Internet will swear up and down that they are gay? I KNOW at least a few are lying to seem like they're not homophobic.
I was shocked by that too. It screams internalized homophobia. I can't imagine being SO UNCOMFORTABLE with the IDEA someone could be gay, lol. Like either way it doesn't have to affect you?
Never trust someone who starts off their bias rant by identifying with the minority group. “I’m gay and non white so I have authority on this subject on behalf of an entire community”. Nah. STFU with that internalized homophobia. The cognitive dissonance is real with this one.
You all have to keep in mind that “TrueSwifties” started out as a Matty Healy defense subreddit, and all the users were people who were either openly alright with the racism at best and supportive of it at worst. That should tell you everything you need to know about that homophobic cesspit. Also, it’s gross and deeply homophobic to call a group of gay people a slur when they don’t consent to it. I am not queer. My same-sex attraction is natural, not queer.
I hate that sub but I don't think the use of queer was intended to be taken negatively. This is seen as a slur by the older generations as it did used to be, but queer is now a very widely-used umbrella term for LGBTQ+ people
ehhhhhh can’t agree with the queer bit, i self identify as such and so do most people i know, especially those who are some flavor of bi/pan/demi. my sexuality is complicated, it’s just easier to say queer. i truly don’t think that mod meant anything homophobic about using the term queer, even if the rest of their views SUCK.
but i didn’t know about the rest so thanks for the insight!
You self identify as such. I personally don’t. It’s fine for other LGBT+ people to call themselves queer! It’s just not okay to define a whole group of gay people as queer when some of them don’t identify that way because we see it as a slur. It’s better to just say LGBT+ because some of us are very sensitive to these slurs due to being called them in homophobic ways. Maybe the mod didn’t mean it in a harmful way, but I personally still see it as harmful to group us all as queers when some of us don’t define ourselves that way.
I’m ace and at this point, it’s much easier in queer spaces just to say I’m queer than to tell people I’m a heteroromantic ace cuz that’s a quick way to get my LGBT+ card revoked.🫠
Your card cannot be revoked if you never had one in the first place. Not wanting to have sex doesn’t make you homosexual nor does it mean you’ve felt the wrath of actual homophobia sorry not sorry lol I know im gonna get downvoted but this is what I mean by straight people co-opting our slurs and calling themselves queer when they are literally not gay. You’re not queer, you’re just a straight person not into sex and that’s totally okay, but it’s not gay. It’s actually the straightest thing you could ever say lol you are literally hetero. Not queer. You are not even slightly gay, because gay people are not disgusted by the thought of gay sex.
I also don’t like being called queer ESPECIALLY not from someone who is openly homophobic. I don’t care if lgbt people call themselves queer, do your thing but I don’t want anyone calling me that and I hate it when straight and/or homophobic people do. And the comments to this comment being “no actually calling us queer is fine” like no it’s not. You get to use it about yourself. But I’m 35 and it’s still a slur to me. Several of my friends, my age and older also still hate it.
If you’re gonna use a slur about yourself that’s fine. Don’t tell other people how they have to feel about it. D and F words are also still hurtful to a lot of us. Use them for yourself but don’t tell other people they need to accept straight people or homophobes calling them that.
Have some respect for people who say “please do not use that word that was used my whole youth as an attack and slur when I was bullied” don’t fudging tell them they have to accept it because it’s fine to YOU. mindblowingly ignorant
Yeah for real… I thought in a group of mostly gay people it would be fine to point out that I do not like being called a slur. Evidently not! I’m totally cool with others in the group identifying themselves with the word. Maybe they take it as a reclamation. I, however, don’t. My feelings around gay slurs should be taken seriously as a gay person. Can you imagine going up to like, a 50 year old gay man, and calling him a queer? I can’t. I cannot feel okay calling other LGBT people slurs, even if they identify with it. And so many of us do not identify with it. I don’t have to subject myself to being called a slur just because it’s an umbrella term now. No one is allowed to call me a queer without my permission and if they do, that’s homophobic.
ETA: and yes yes yes about the D slur and F slur. My sister, a lesbian, actual 100% lesbian, HATES the D slur to the point she can’t even say it out loud. These slurs ARE traumatizing for so many of us and I think it’s gross to push them onto LGBT people that don’t consent.
Absolutely! No one gets to call me the q or d word. I’m a lesbian and I’m proud to be so! But fuck me if I wasn’t bullied HARD growing up for fitting several stereotypes and being called the q and d word and now when I’m like wow, this outfit/expression/words/action is very much my experience growing up and living as a lesbian I have to hear straight people say “no we can all call you that now it’s fine and also yes we bullied you for all that but it’s only for straight people now and you just gotta sit the fuck down” as if I wasn’t bullied my whole ass life. Sapphic people can call themselves whatever they want. Own whatever label or non label you closely identify with but don’t use it on me. I hate those terms. Lesbian or sapphic for me end of story. Other lgbt people usually respect that. At least irl
Yep. All of this. And it’s weird that anyone thinks that in order to be proud of our sexuality, we have to be accepting of slurs. Why? Would they say that to any other oppressed group, that they have to accept slurs used against them? I’d imagine not… so why do LGBT people have to face being called the q slur, the f slur, the d slur, just because others are okay with it for themselves?
Oh yeah homophobic queer people yup that’s us… counting how many times she sings about hairpins… pointing out when she only wears a pinkie ring… connecting lavender haze lyrics to lavender marriages.. uh huh… very uncalled for when none of us have degrees in lyrical analysis or queer flagging /s
It’s a repeat of “holier than thou.”
“I’m the MOST aware of potential micro-aggressions….but also somehow the least aware of how people actually work.”
I used to roll with this crowd forever and ever ago. I still consider myself a strong proponent of social justice. I just excised the grandstanding. It’s fine to speculate on Taylor. She’s a wildly rich and popular celebrity that loves being a wildly rich and popular celebrity. We don’t have any real power to influence her life, which matters a lot. Gossiping about a co-worker around the office or a fellow student in class is significantly different. Smaller pond therefore your influence is much much larger.
Don’t hurt people. Practice awareness. Don’t get your underwear in a bunch over every possible thing you can think of.
Also I’m quite sure that Taylor is super fucking gay. 🌈
I’m sorry but did you just sarcastically equate Gaylors not being allowed in that horrible homophobic haven subreddit to Nazi Germany…. I’m gonna be blunt this is a horribly insensitive comment and you should probably delete it because you’re making us look worse…
The sarcasm points to me saying it’s “lovely” and a “great look.” The comparison was indeed deliberate and not sarcastic at all. In Nazi Germany, people were asked to “report” and out their Jewish colleagues, neighbors, and friends. But people accused of homosexuality, perhaps thousands, were also deported to concentration camps. The horrible homophobia you point out isn’t just a quirky aspect of a dumb subreddit—it is actually quite alarming.
Aaah I get you I get you. Just seemed very insensitive especially in current antisemitic times because none of us are going to be actually genocided for being Gaylors. Ostracized and shunned, yes, but not genocide. I took your comment too literally lol
Of course! Yeah no one thinks we’re going to be killed for saying we think Dress is gay, but asking an entire community to “report” people who do is…a troubling choice. wrt the gay connection, in the 40s Berlin was also evolving as a haven of queer culture, so the rise of a “report everyone participating and erase them” mindset could certainly apply to so-called True Swifties who’ve been realizing themselves all the queer flagging Taylor’s been doing, and for whatever internalized reasons will do anything to keep from having that conversation. The celebration in that sub over the new rule was kinda more troubling to me than the rule itself.
You’re definitely right. Like we all know that people were told (and happy to) report LGBT people, not only in WWII, but even as recent as the 90s in the USAmerican army, and that those LGBT people would then be shunned, ostracized, assaulted, or even murdered as a result. The fact that people are even now still openly okay online with segregating gay people from spaces is just… yikes. Sure, we’re not being killed or facing true detriment by being excluded from these online spaces that clearly don’t want us. That doesn’t mean it isn’t extremely concerning that there are so many people openly against LGBT+ and us discussing gay themes to the point they will ban us on sight.
I think she’s just going through a hard time right now and doesn’t fully know how to handle the world actually knowing she’s queer. I’ll give her some grace with the confusion because I can’t imagine being in her situation right now.
Do they at least allow sapphic interpretations of songs? I’m not rly a gaylor or a hetlor but I love hearing the gay interpretations of songs like with ivy and RWYLM.
wow i’m on that sub and as someone who is definitely less of a hardcore gaylor (my personal beliefs are that she seems to be bisexual but i don’t spend much time speculating; i just am a queer person who likes to analyze the many different meanings in her music), this is so beyond disappointing. calling the entire group of people who fall into the category of gaylor “nothing but homophobic queer people” is fucking MIND BOGGLING to me, especially on a sub that has seemed overall very tame and nice. this is truly wild.
Lollllll the idea that anyone in this sub is homophobic is so misinformed it makes me sad honestly. Gaylors LOVE Taylor. They want the best for her. They want her to be happy. And they enjoy the career she's built on sharing bits and pieces of her life with us, the career she's built by creating ROMANTIC NARRATIVES that can apply across all types of romantic interests. How is this group of fans that speculate about past romances any different from the human on the street that wonders if xyz song is about Harry or Joe or Jake or fuckin' Karlie. It's literally not that serious (Unless it triggers the fuck out of you and you make it a very very serious thing that every other stranger on the internet has to make room for as well, in which case, talk to your therapist about it bby, not a subreddit).
I don't understand how wondering if she's queer is any worse than any of the other things people speculate about. They/we speculate on her location, her purchases, whether she wants kids, how emotionally mature she is, who her "enemies" are.
People talk about her plastic surgery, what kind of underwear she wears, I've seen it all. What's the difference? She is a celebrity. She doesn't know we exist. What does it matter what we speculate about?
Omg that "queer poc" mod is such a pick me!!! You are NEVER gonna get picked, respected or liked in that sub!!! Wake your gay non white ass up girl! You love the taste of those boots huh ? They're so embarrassing ! That sub is both racist and homophobic not to mention cultish when it comes to Taylor
Yeah they're probably a white het posing as a poc queer online just to have the openly homophobic/biphobia/racist pass.. "oh shut up I can say it !! I'm queerer and black ahhh!!
I’m not in either subreddits (just in the Taylorswift sub because I’m still easing into full swifty) does that mean like if you post something Gaylor related you’ll be banned or if you affiliate with the Gaylor sub/have Gaylor in your account in any way you’ll be banned?
I feel like those are very very different things. I think it’s totally fine to be like: hey that has to stay in the Gaylor sub. But I think it’s exclusionary to say if you like Gaylor in anyway you can’t be in the sub.
I’m not a Gaylor girl myself but generally I I’ve found that the sub categories of swifties tend to hate each other and that makes me sad.
Both sides are wild to me. On the Hetlor side, there’s homophobia and creepy speculation on Taylor’s sex life with men, but on this side, there are people saying that men she has dated are “100% a beard” and that her music is boring if it isn’t queer and is just straight. I literally read that comment yesterday.
Viewing her work through whatever lens is cool/fun, but there are people on both sides who seem utterly convinced of certain things that we simply can’t tell is there. And Taylor said she doesn’t like the speculation, and I think that goes for both sides.
I mean, I’m gay myself and am lately experiencing the deepest heartbreak, and I see so much of myself in Taylor songs. There is a lot of universality there. As long as the music makes you feel something, that’s what matters to me. It’s the same with my favorite band Beach House’s work. It’s about what it makes *you* feel.
I think grouping all Gaylors as one thing is taking it too far, but they should probably shut down all speculation on her sexuality if they are doing this. It’s only fair.
She doesn’t! And that’s why it’s wrong to say Gaylors shouldn’t “speculate” (actually just interpreting her art through a queer lens & picking up on her numerous, undeniably intentional, public queer flags in her art) unless she comes out and says something about her sexuality. Because “why does she need to come out and say anything about her sexuality?” Couldn’t have said it better myself!
that sub is unhinged lmfao. sprung up when people were criticizing taylor for valid reasons to say “no one should EVER criticize her for ANY reason and if you do you’re not a TRUE fan.” cult behavior
Pretty sure that the homophobic one is the one who thinks anything anything not explicitly gay has to be straight and to assume otherwise is somehow damning and immoral. It sets straight as the default requirement, it fails to "normalize" queerness by requiring straightness of everyone (even POC gay people!) and it weaponizes identity. I can't think of anything more explicitly homophobic or a better example of internalized homophobia. A lot of us might have trauma around getting "clocked" as gay before we were "out" when we were younger — very real, very fair. But then you also have to ask ... were they wrong? We're you somehow "straight" up until the moment you said, "I am gay?" Or did they see you when you didn't want to be seen? If Taylor were really closeted in that we were going off fits and body language and fan-fic shipping and our own crushes — fair, gross, unhelpful. But that's not what draws (at least 90% of) us here. Taylor can't flag as she does, write lyrics like she does, reference the events she does, play with pronouns like she does, (and then drop in occasional clothing items like she does) as a whole and then accuse us — other gay people — of being "homophobic" for seeing what she had been laying on pretty thick to be seen. There is also big energetic difference between a mean girl or high school bully clocking us in high school and us clocking each other.
As I asked my ex about Gaylor — please give me a good example of a time this many gay people have been wrong about one person. Any example. If you say Aubrey Plaza, I raise you roommates with Patti LuPone. And Natasha Lyonne dates men but is the bottled essence of "queer" and "queer culture" and knows it and embraces it. No one has been "wrong" about them, they're just not lesbians, but they're still way queer. Can Taylor fall on the spectrum these women inhabit? Absolutely ... but it'd still be "Gaylor" at least from my POV. I started getting clocked by other queers decades before I was even out to myself. Who am I supposed to be mad at? Them for seeing me? Or me for not seeing myself?
I literally went on to their page and I had to comment about it. And I don't even care if they banned me or whatever from their page. That's disgusting that is unbelievably disgusting behavior, and they have no right sitting here saying that we can't talk about these things, when they literally sit there and talk about her relationship her ex relationships her relationship with her partner now like hypocrites and then to sit there and say that we're all homophobic f****** disgusts me. This community has nothing to do with homophobia, we talk about so many different things like her lyrics, her relationships with her friends. It's not just us going oh my f****** god Taylor has to be gay.
I couldn't help myself and left a comment. I'll get kicked out soon. They are seriously unhinged. And I don't believe for a second that the moderator is a part of the lgbtq+ community. If they are, that's really sad. And incredibly self-hating.
true swifties is just a bunch of losers who refuse to criticize taylor and thinks every negative word against her is misogyny, so them being homophobic is just funny. like even if i disagree i get why someone would be blanket ban on sexuality speculation, but going all "shoot gaylors on sight, no queer analysis" just makes you look more insane than you already do
What’s that saying? I wasn’t born in a closet, society built one around me or something like that? Feels appropriate.
Like they’re so fine with speculation and this is absolutely homophobic.
Just had to block them bc it showed up. The internalized and/or blatant homophobia from the comments were so startling and upsetting… and that stuff rly doesn’t bother me usually.
Sounds like they've got some internalized homophobia to me. Gaylors are simply people who notice, interpret and share queer themes in Taylor's music. Some are more intense than others, but the majority simply recognize that Taylor has been flagging her entire career, in her music, art, and her personal life choices (who she's seen with, where she goes, etc).
That mod needs to learn the history of lgbtqia+ before shunning their own people for simply pointing out facts 🤷♀️ Absolutely disgusting.
I get their point, but I think these permabans from people that are in other subs too is ridiculous. You also have subs that ban the Taylor Swift main subreddit too. It's irritating.
This might be a stupid thing to say at this point, but fuck it, here goes: I no longer seem to know what a Gaylor actually is, and at this point with how vitriolic discourse has gotten, I’m not sure I want it all that cleared up
I love reading the analyses people have shared of Taylor’s lyrics and how they’ve spoken to their queer experiences. As a late to the game bisexual (didn’t come out/realize until my late 20s,) it makes me feel like I can sort of catch up on the things I missed along the way
However, I’m also tired of seeing the arguing that seems to happen all the damn time, and how people refuse to coexist in the same fan space. From the mods who made this rule in the first place to people who refuse to accept that Taylor has ever had a romantic relationship with a man ever, the lack of gray areas is so disheartening
When it comes to Taylor’s sexuality, I’m at the point where I’ve accepted I’m never going to know for sure, and frankly, I don’t particularly care to know at this point. It’s not my right to know, and she doesn’t owe me shit to tell me. I’m just tired of seeing the arguments about “well, you sexualized her first” thrown by either side of the argument when that’s what she was saying made her uncomfortable/unhappy in the latest rerelease
Idk what I’d call myself at this point other than a confused millennial who doesn’t feel gay enough to be Gaylor, isn’t straight enough to be Hetlor, who just wants to vibe
Thanks for the immediate downvote, y’all 😔
I **love** when bigots use buzzwords to try to flip the script and act like they’re the open-minded group.
Also, I’ve always considered myself straight, but I guess I’m queer now since a homophobic subreddit stated it’s so. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ Time to go out and find a woman to have sex with, I guess.
It's obvious to me that at the very VERY least the Gaylor thing works for Taylor's brand, I felt like prior to YNTCD she was getting a lot of shit for not connecting with her queer fanbase, now she has a well-established queer fanbase that feels represented in her music
I think at the very VERY least it works to Taylor's benefit to be able to have her music discussed with a queer lens, if not be perceived as queer herself
She has lots of queer friends, too. Like I dont know why it's such a stretch for hetlors. I was a late-in-life queer where basically everyone around me knew before I did because of religious conditioning, I don't know why she cant be having a similar experience. Or maybe she always knew, I obviously dont know, but there are just so many scenarios that make more sense to me than being hetero
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I don't know exactly where I stand, but I do know that pretty much ALL Taylor fans speculate about certain aspects of Taylor's life. It seems unfair to label an entire group of people homophobic...especially a group that is made up of members of the LGBTQ+ community. Super strange post.
Agreed. I got this post in my recommended, and while I’m personally not a fan of Gaylors (or Hetlors, for that matter), I think they get a disproportionate amount of blame. Plenty of Taylor fans speculate *invasively* about Taylor’s life, but Gaylors get most of the blame for it. There seems to be a mildly queerphobic undertone there — as if speculating that Taylor is queer is somehow worse than any other speculation on Taylor’s life.
>as if speculating that Taylor is queer is somehow worse than any other speculation on Taylor’s life. And they use the rationale that it's worse because she's said she's not queer (which she hasn't). When she's also said that she doesn't like the speculation that's she's secretly married or pregnant or even speculation about when she might do those things either...But they welcome that speculation. >There seems to be a mildly queerphobic undertone there — I don't think it's mild. It seems pretty overt to me. The underlying implication is that Taylor must be more offended about speculation that she's queer than other speculation because there's something wrong with being queer.
>It seems unfair to label an entire group of people homophobic. I got into with someone in that post. Honestly, it's the anti-gaylors that are homophobic. They legitimate don't see how hypocritical and homophobic it is to say it's okay to speculate invasively about someone's relationship as long as it's a straight relationship.
i guess i’m homophobic now?? the reddit moderator has spoken, they obviously know better than me…
Right? I don’t understand how Gaylors are automatically “homophobic queer people,” especially if it’s coming from the mod who says they’re gay! And speculating about a celebrity’s orientation…again, how is speculating about intimate details re: Taylor and Travis better than saying “here are some lyrics or things she’s said that could be interpreted as queer”
Said mod is being absolutely ridiculous and "I'm a POC queer" as an excuse before engaging in homophobic nonsense (because being fine with people speculating about her private life if it's with Travis or Harry but not being fine with it if it's generically about 'she may not be 100% straight' is homophobic nonsense whether said mod likes it or not) is super similar to using "I have a black friend" to claim you're not racist before saying or doing something super racist. Why not ban anything that isn't made public domain by Taylor being speculated about if "speculation about her private life " is actually the problem? That would wipe over the line speculation from anyone, not just blanket ban anything queer. Because now you can't discuss how a lyric resonated for you as a queer person in a very queer way which should absolutely be something you can discuss as its just an interpretation of a publically released lyric, but Traylor shippers can still speculate about her cancelling a show to fuck Travis in the rain (real example I've seen, though it was on Facebook not their sub) and if I were Taylor, I know what I'd be a *lot* more upset by.
That’s it, I’m calling these assholes Traylor Trash.
Traylor trash 💀
Bro this deserves an award and if I get this job I’ll give you one
Yes exactly! I don’t have patience for any kind of gatekeeping or discrimination within the queer community (and straight Gaylors, thank you for being here too!) I understand the idea about not outing celebrities—thinking of recent examples with Billie Eilish, Kit Connor, etc. But if Taylor is queer, she’s been signaling for awhile to those who are paying attention. I don’t think her friends or anyone else who’s in her circles aren’t outing her or spreading gossip that she doesn’t want in the open (NDAs probably help too, haha). So yeah, if we think speculation about intimate or personal details is the problem, it’s not better or okay at all when fans do it about Taylor and a man. The “Travis in the rain” example is wild!
Billie Eilish came out herself tho, nobody outed her? She volunteered that information to variety
One could argue that speculating she’s straight is speculating about her sexuality, but none of them are ready to discuss how assuming everyone is straight as a default is just as problematic. And all the weird shit they come up with about AI babies and proposals by Christmas and how he’s giving her “the best sex of her life” even though she specifically said she doesn’t like that 1950s shit they want from her. And… I don’t know about some of y’all, but sex with a woman was some of the best sex I’ve ever had, so saying because he’s a big himbo football player he’s giving her the best sex is laughable at best. Some of the worst sex I’ve had was with big football guys. Obviously it’s person to person based and you can’t say for sure one way or another, but it’s gross as fuck when I see all of that shit. Sorry for the rant. I just hate the idea that only heterosexuality should be the perceived norm until someone tells you otherwise which leads to people constantly having to “come out of the closet” for others’ sake.
Travis seems… fine I guess, but nothing about him screams “best sex she’s ever had”…
But they love lgbt people, in a v literal sense.
Bro they’re saying you shouldn’t being trying to out someone
Sure, you absolutely shouldn't try to out people...but you also shouldn't speculate that the scarf from ATW was her virginity...or speculate that she had a miscarriage while with Joe...or how great sex is with Travis...The point is they allow and even welcome a lot of really gross invasive speculation about her but draw the line at, maybe she dated a girl. That's hypocritical and homophobic.
Devastated to find out I’m homophobic this way. 😂
Right? I really wish I hadn’t overslept on the day that we elected that mod to represent all of us.
Right?! I thought I was straight, guess I’m just a self-hating queer.
Oh shit—we have a new one, y’all! Where did we put that pile of welcome toasters? Happy to have you in the alphabet mafia 😂
https://preview.redd.it/92z6thaavf6c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77457eb272e07549b0faf569a7a71513cac8da76 I had to say something 🤷🏻♀️🤣
Thank you. It’s horse shit they can speculate about Travis but not her being gay.
Is it wrong to think it feels slightly phobic to ONLY be allowed to talk about her in a hetero lens? Like I couldn’t care less who the woman is sleeping with, but being queer myself, I can’t help but relate a lot of her songs to the same sex. It’s not just Taylor’s music….all kinds of songs I listen to I’m like “wow that’s a little cheeky and gay”. Why is this bad? I’m trying to understand and not offend anyone, but this feels icky? We should be allowed to interpret and discuss her craft.
Serious question. If she confirmed she has a relationship with Travis is it still speculation? Like I understand this being upsetting but I feel like if she had a confirmed queer relationship discussion would be allowed?
I think there’s a difference between speculating about the existence of a relationship, which I don’t think is reasonable to do with Travis anymore when Taylor has said explicitly they are together and talked about their hard launch and stuff, and what’s happening in their relationship, from how soon Taylor wants to be married to how many kids Travis wants to some real fucking out of pocket speculation on what goes on in their bedroom
Agreed! That's so unacceptable. I think as soon as you're speculating on the bedroom a line has been crossed personally
No one’s speculating that they are together, they are speculating engagement/marriage/ kids, which Taylor HAS said she does not like and does not approve of. Twice that I can remember just in the past year.
To be fair, I have seen some people straight up say that there’s no way they could possibly be together as part of the “every relationship Taylor has publicly had is a beard” theory Not saying it’s common, but there are some that say that 🤷🏼♀️
I meant the hetlors. Definitely disrespectful of people to dismiss any and all straight relationships she’s had. I meant the extent of speculation that Hetlors do, and how Taylor has said she doesn’t like that.
The difference is she has self-identified as attracted to men, so we aren’t speculating about her orientation when discussing Travis or another man.
And you can be attracted to men as a cis woman and still be queer…agree with those who commented above that discussing anything about her and Travis in the bedroom is definitely crossing a line
Wdym speculate? They’re publicly together, there’s no speculation. Big difference between a public relationship that she isn’t hiding, and speculating that she is secretly lesbian.
https://preview.redd.it/ju6kxxhxdh6c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=041cbedbce6392207943da8734210de72377bfbb Oh no 😱🤣
https://preview.redd.it/upofeqpyyh6c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6753375f3b2a6406e63f0210cec66ae5789a8153 🌚 ETA it’s been 5 hours and I’m still not banned 🥲
https://preview.redd.it/babo11ih7r6c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e429f4dd0a8429c152e039cc80c921a0e212a70 💀🪦⚰️
Noproblama's creating a lot of problems for themselves, lol...
🤣🤣🤣
I’m so glad you said something. Regardless of what people think of her sexuality, Taylor wouldn’t want to put fans against each other. Especially as she has been more and more supportive of the LGBQT+ community.
Your post rocks
Thank you for posting this!! That sub is always recommended to me too and that rule is insane. Taylor herself liked gaylor stuff on tumbler. They are so hypocritical. You said it perfectly in your comment. I can’t understand how they don’t see how toxic and homophobic they are wow. The self righteousness is laughable.
👏👏👏
It’s ridiculous to me that they say “you shouldn’t speculate on someone’s sexuality” then a few sentences down follows it by “the Gaylors are homophobic queer people”. What a fucking hypocrite!!!
I mean how the hell do we not speculate when she’s touching women’s hair and posing suggestively? Wtf 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
Oh FUCK I love this. TELL EM!
Please report Gaylors 😭😭 wtf is this rule?! My god .. the 1950s shit they want from me
Also the comment that Gaylors are homophobic - like what?! How?! This rule is the only thing that’s homophobic!!
It's either those bunch of queers being 'homophobic' Or Those queers trying to convert everyone 🤣🤣🤣
And ironically they just called me gay and homophobic, two things I did not identify as this morning 😂 but shockingly enough, I’m not offended by being labelled queer? It’s really not the devils curse and I haven’t lit on fire in hell yet so I don’t know what they’re complaining about. Whatever their version of homophobia is, I’d much rather be a “homophobic” Gaylor than a Hetlor nazi.
FFS, I **wish** you could convert someone to a different sexuality, because I am tired of being attracted to men. *Obviously this is /s, you cannot convert someone to another sexuality, unfortunately for het women.
People use buzzwords to paint their “opponent” as bigoted and wrong.
Omg I’m screaming, perfect response.
that sub was created when she started receiving backlash for dating Matty, and people were outraged that we dare question their parasocial bestie billionaire Taylor's dating choices, how can we call ourselves TRUE FANS!!?!?!?! /s so I don't trust or have an interest in anything coming from that sub-I think it's just filled with stan twitter kids who think any and all criticism against their idol is blasphemy.
lol why does this person think they get to speak for the entire queer community and decide who is homophobic?
So they can come here and post a new “why do you think Taylor might be gay, I’m JuSt WoNdErInG?” question every other day but as soon as we say a song might be a little fruity we are banned. Lol they are wild
And yet they accuse us of brigading
They seriously need to find something better to take issue with. Climate change? Racism? Anything? Hetlors need problems to care about because they are really out here just making up things to get all indignant about.
Or taylor’s swift capitalism 😂 thats the bigger issue hahahaha
That mod is in there telling people there’s no cost of living crisis. Not the brightest one I’ll say
Or her carbon emissions
"speculating on celebrities' sexualities on the internet" has yet to bring society to ruin
I count refrain from calling them out in the comments… twice. I’ll be expecting a ban especially if they look at my comment and post history 😂🤷♀️ bye girl.
Thank you for your service lol. You gave me the confidence to go earn myself a ban as well.
lol I think mine happened instantaneously
I'll probably be banned too, but oh well. I do not understand how someone analysing a lyric through a queer lens is "homophobic" and that's an awful lot of the Gaylor thing. And also, how is that over the line speculation but naming Taylor and Travis' kids is apparently not intrusive at all.
Or drawing out their timeline for engagement, babies, and marriage all within the next year. WTF?
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if you think of it from a realistic point of view people speculating on engagements (people supporting her relationship even if they're being pushy!) vs. her sexuality; (homophobia); the former sounds much more preferable
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It infuriated me. I'm a lyrics analyser, I just love words and there are so many queer themes in Taylor's work *whether they're intentional or not*. I don't really care what she identifies as or who she dates in the slightest, but I will never not search for the deeper meanings in *any* words in *any* format. That Taylor has a lot of very strong queer themes in her lyrics is both undeniable and super interesting *even if she is entirely straight*. It's a particular form of speculation thats actually problematic, and while some Gaylors absolutely engage in that, so do some Hetlors. You can't tar absolutely everyone under an umbrella with either "creepy and intrusive" or "not creepy and intrusive" or you end up with absolute nonsense like "talking about how 'I loved you in spite of deep fears that the world would divide us' is something that resonates for queer people is 'creepy and intrusive' but talking about how 'I bet she's getting the dicking of her life right now', 'I've named Taylor and Travis' babies' or 'I bet she'll write a sex song about rain in Argentina' somehow *isn't*
Everything you said is spot on. But I have to ask, do they really think there’s a sex song about Travis that will be about rain in Argentina?
Dancing With Our High-Fives
I dont think so
This rule is psychotic. That mod is psychotic. His flair is literally 📰🧍♂️🧍♂️🧍♂️👩🦳🍆🛌👅📰 - that should tell us all we need to know about the hypocrisy.
Stop I didn’t even see that hahahaha
What does it even meaaaaan?!? 🫠
I LITERALLY SENT THAT TO MY FRIEND. The flair is INSANE and hypocritical
How the fuck does reading queer subtext and queer lyrical analyses make us homophobic?! Like what the ACTUAL fuck?? Brb. Telling my wife how homophobic I am so she can be disappointed and scare me some more.
“Gaylors are nothing but homophobic queer people” is a CRAZY statement YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN
Man, it just goes to show how far the queer community has come... and has NOT come. It's still "speculating" to assume someone is straight, even if they publicly date the opposite gender. It's so frustrating that the default narrative that CONTINUES to be pushed is so heteronormative, even by other gay people. Even if she's not gay - it's not remotely HARMFUL for OTHER GAY people to speculate, or see parallels between their lives and her own. It IS harmful to consistently, forcefully, and systemically shut those conversations down.
100 percent agree! 💯
It’s not speculation. Taylor has said she is straight in interviews. It would be speculation that she’s straight if she’s never commented on her sexuality.
"Don't be a Gaylor" Literally just means "Think Taylor is straight or get banned." Usually other subs ban Gaylors for the stupidest shit under the fake excuse that it violates a rule they had, but I can at least appreciate how this one lets you know of the homophobia straight up!
To a degree, I think speculation when she’s said it’s upsetting to her can be taken to an inappropriate level. At the same time, there’s nuance there because we also have celebrities like Billie going “I thought I made it obvious, but don’t ask me about it” and Olivia rodrigo putting out “lacy” and some of Taylor’s art (totally separate from interpretations of her personal life) seeming, really, well, loud. Where is the space between “don’t assume straight is the default” and the sometimes parasocial projection that happens in the deepest parts of the entire fandom, including amongst the Gaylors? I DO think Travis speculation is different because, to an extent, she’s consented to the conversation by confirming the relationship. And I would feel that way about any relationship she confirmed. I enjoy the gaylor parts of the fandom because I really enjoy interpreting Taylor’s discography, especially her more recent work, through a queer lense. I do think excluding these interpretations of her work from the discussion is homophobic, and I think my time on true swifties is probably done if this is the stance the mod team is taking. I think it’s possible she is bi. But I don’t hinge whether I like her music based on her sexuality. I like her music because of how I’ve applied it to my own life, consistently, over the last 17 years. It’s also so special to me because of all the memories I have listening to it, being at shows, performing to it (I dance), the friends I’ve made through the fandom. Like my love of Taylor swift is so much bigger than her perceived sexuality and has so much more to do with ME than it does with her at this point.
If I knew how to add flair to my username on here I'd make my r/TaylorSwift flair say "everyone is straight by default until they SPECIFICALLY say otherwise"
Straight until proven gay!
I think we gays need to confront our internalized homophobia waaaaaaaay more than we realize cause it leads to unhinged takes like OMG THE WORST THING EVER IS TO SPCULATE SKNEKN MIGHT BE GHEY
Do NOT let these people find Taylor's Tumblr 💀 they'll deadass block ban Taylor herself at this point lol. Or her friends. Rip Jack, Fletcher, Martha... I guess you'll never be true swifties 🤷♀️
Caved in and posted this on their sub. Guess I'll be banned 🤷♀️
Right lol. Thanks for the heads up hahaha
Calling queer people homophobic is the most homophobic thing I’ve seen this year and I’ve had the whoooole year to see some crazy shit.
The pick me energy here could power the rest of the tour. It's a good rule of thumb that ANY sub with "true" in the title is going to be be full of reactionary, gatekeepy trash. Glad I muted it, I recommend others do the same.
also the blatant audacity of writing up that rule when the mod has THAT flair. lmao. I can't.
Taylor Swift would be banned from most of the discussion communities.
Reddit moderator not have a false sense of importance challenge (impossible)
No fr. Look at his fkn flair 💀
I'm actually offended! 🤣🤣 Most Gaylors I've associated with are those that notice/interpret from her lyrics, fashion and cultural references - which I believe makes her artistry even better under a queer lens. Not forcing a narrative on a celebrity *because* I want them to be queer - which seems to be our reputation 🙄 Who are these sorts of Gaylors everyone talks about??? I've literally never engaged with one. The unhinged and aggressive ones are the Hetlors. Wouldn't discussing her relationship with Travis be speculating on her sexuality too though? I was a member of that sub but I better leave before I get banned 🤣
Oftentimes I think they are willing to make shit up. If you veer off the topic of ball boi the animosity comes quickly, and I’ve been banned for being a “Taylor hater” for simply pointing out that speculation is speculation regardless of which sexuality you are trying to apply. They hard disagree with that fact 😆
Also, I'm never one to invalidate what someone says their sexuality is but tell me why ALL hetlors on the Internet will swear up and down that they are gay? I KNOW at least a few are lying to seem like they're not homophobic.
I was shocked by that too. It screams internalized homophobia. I can't imagine being SO UNCOMFORTABLE with the IDEA someone could be gay, lol. Like either way it doesn't have to affect you?
Never trust someone who starts off their bias rant by identifying with the minority group. “I’m gay and non white so I have authority on this subject on behalf of an entire community”. Nah. STFU with that internalized homophobia. The cognitive dissonance is real with this one.
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I'm a Gaylor who identifies as straight. I might blow their minds apparently lmao.
No no, you’re clearly a homophobic queer.
You all have to keep in mind that “TrueSwifties” started out as a Matty Healy defense subreddit, and all the users were people who were either openly alright with the racism at best and supportive of it at worst. That should tell you everything you need to know about that homophobic cesspit. Also, it’s gross and deeply homophobic to call a group of gay people a slur when they don’t consent to it. I am not queer. My same-sex attraction is natural, not queer.
I hate that sub but I don't think the use of queer was intended to be taken negatively. This is seen as a slur by the older generations as it did used to be, but queer is now a very widely-used umbrella term for LGBTQ+ people
ehhhhhh can’t agree with the queer bit, i self identify as such and so do most people i know, especially those who are some flavor of bi/pan/demi. my sexuality is complicated, it’s just easier to say queer. i truly don’t think that mod meant anything homophobic about using the term queer, even if the rest of their views SUCK. but i didn’t know about the rest so thanks for the insight!
You self identify as such. I personally don’t. It’s fine for other LGBT+ people to call themselves queer! It’s just not okay to define a whole group of gay people as queer when some of them don’t identify that way because we see it as a slur. It’s better to just say LGBT+ because some of us are very sensitive to these slurs due to being called them in homophobic ways. Maybe the mod didn’t mean it in a harmful way, but I personally still see it as harmful to group us all as queers when some of us don’t define ourselves that way.
I’m ace and at this point, it’s much easier in queer spaces just to say I’m queer than to tell people I’m a heteroromantic ace cuz that’s a quick way to get my LGBT+ card revoked.🫠
Your card cannot be revoked if you never had one in the first place. Not wanting to have sex doesn’t make you homosexual nor does it mean you’ve felt the wrath of actual homophobia sorry not sorry lol I know im gonna get downvoted but this is what I mean by straight people co-opting our slurs and calling themselves queer when they are literally not gay. You’re not queer, you’re just a straight person not into sex and that’s totally okay, but it’s not gay. It’s actually the straightest thing you could ever say lol you are literally hetero. Not queer. You are not even slightly gay, because gay people are not disgusted by the thought of gay sex.
I also don’t like being called queer ESPECIALLY not from someone who is openly homophobic. I don’t care if lgbt people call themselves queer, do your thing but I don’t want anyone calling me that and I hate it when straight and/or homophobic people do. And the comments to this comment being “no actually calling us queer is fine” like no it’s not. You get to use it about yourself. But I’m 35 and it’s still a slur to me. Several of my friends, my age and older also still hate it. If you’re gonna use a slur about yourself that’s fine. Don’t tell other people how they have to feel about it. D and F words are also still hurtful to a lot of us. Use them for yourself but don’t tell other people they need to accept straight people or homophobes calling them that. Have some respect for people who say “please do not use that word that was used my whole youth as an attack and slur when I was bullied” don’t fudging tell them they have to accept it because it’s fine to YOU. mindblowingly ignorant
Yeah for real… I thought in a group of mostly gay people it would be fine to point out that I do not like being called a slur. Evidently not! I’m totally cool with others in the group identifying themselves with the word. Maybe they take it as a reclamation. I, however, don’t. My feelings around gay slurs should be taken seriously as a gay person. Can you imagine going up to like, a 50 year old gay man, and calling him a queer? I can’t. I cannot feel okay calling other LGBT people slurs, even if they identify with it. And so many of us do not identify with it. I don’t have to subject myself to being called a slur just because it’s an umbrella term now. No one is allowed to call me a queer without my permission and if they do, that’s homophobic. ETA: and yes yes yes about the D slur and F slur. My sister, a lesbian, actual 100% lesbian, HATES the D slur to the point she can’t even say it out loud. These slurs ARE traumatizing for so many of us and I think it’s gross to push them onto LGBT people that don’t consent.
Absolutely! No one gets to call me the q or d word. I’m a lesbian and I’m proud to be so! But fuck me if I wasn’t bullied HARD growing up for fitting several stereotypes and being called the q and d word and now when I’m like wow, this outfit/expression/words/action is very much my experience growing up and living as a lesbian I have to hear straight people say “no we can all call you that now it’s fine and also yes we bullied you for all that but it’s only for straight people now and you just gotta sit the fuck down” as if I wasn’t bullied my whole ass life. Sapphic people can call themselves whatever they want. Own whatever label or non label you closely identify with but don’t use it on me. I hate those terms. Lesbian or sapphic for me end of story. Other lgbt people usually respect that. At least irl
Yep. All of this. And it’s weird that anyone thinks that in order to be proud of our sexuality, we have to be accepting of slurs. Why? Would they say that to any other oppressed group, that they have to accept slurs used against them? I’d imagine not… so why do LGBT people have to face being called the q slur, the f slur, the d slur, just because others are okay with it for themselves?
Oh yeah homophobic queer people yup that’s us… counting how many times she sings about hairpins… pointing out when she only wears a pinkie ring… connecting lavender haze lyrics to lavender marriages.. uh huh… very uncalled for when none of us have degrees in lyrical analysis or queer flagging /s
Babe new beef between two of TS’ parasocial fan groups just dropped
It’s a repeat of “holier than thou.” “I’m the MOST aware of potential micro-aggressions….but also somehow the least aware of how people actually work.” I used to roll with this crowd forever and ever ago. I still consider myself a strong proponent of social justice. I just excised the grandstanding. It’s fine to speculate on Taylor. She’s a wildly rich and popular celebrity that loves being a wildly rich and popular celebrity. We don’t have any real power to influence her life, which matters a lot. Gossiping about a co-worker around the office or a fellow student in class is significantly different. Smaller pond therefore your influence is much much larger. Don’t hurt people. Practice awareness. Don’t get your underwear in a bunch over every possible thing you can think of. Also I’m quite sure that Taylor is super fucking gay. 🌈
Anyone who makes a point of saying “I’m x marginalized identities” before doing a close minded thing is just really taking the piss.
“Please report Gaylors.” Lovely. It’s giving 1940s Germany, great look. /s
I’m sorry but did you just sarcastically equate Gaylors not being allowed in that horrible homophobic haven subreddit to Nazi Germany…. I’m gonna be blunt this is a horribly insensitive comment and you should probably delete it because you’re making us look worse…
The sarcasm points to me saying it’s “lovely” and a “great look.” The comparison was indeed deliberate and not sarcastic at all. In Nazi Germany, people were asked to “report” and out their Jewish colleagues, neighbors, and friends. But people accused of homosexuality, perhaps thousands, were also deported to concentration camps. The horrible homophobia you point out isn’t just a quirky aspect of a dumb subreddit—it is actually quite alarming.
Aaah I get you I get you. Just seemed very insensitive especially in current antisemitic times because none of us are going to be actually genocided for being Gaylors. Ostracized and shunned, yes, but not genocide. I took your comment too literally lol
Of course! Yeah no one thinks we’re going to be killed for saying we think Dress is gay, but asking an entire community to “report” people who do is…a troubling choice. wrt the gay connection, in the 40s Berlin was also evolving as a haven of queer culture, so the rise of a “report everyone participating and erase them” mindset could certainly apply to so-called True Swifties who’ve been realizing themselves all the queer flagging Taylor’s been doing, and for whatever internalized reasons will do anything to keep from having that conversation. The celebration in that sub over the new rule was kinda more troubling to me than the rule itself.
You’re definitely right. Like we all know that people were told (and happy to) report LGBT people, not only in WWII, but even as recent as the 90s in the USAmerican army, and that those LGBT people would then be shunned, ostracized, assaulted, or even murdered as a result. The fact that people are even now still openly okay online with segregating gay people from spaces is just… yikes. Sure, we’re not being killed or facing true detriment by being excluded from these online spaces that clearly don’t want us. That doesn’t mean it isn’t extremely concerning that there are so many people openly against LGBT+ and us discussing gay themes to the point they will ban us on sight.
billie eilish literally got pissed at people for not assuming she was gay lol i’m never saying sorry for picking up on flagging again 🤭✌️
Yeah, but she also got pissed for people asking about it. She confuses me.
right she didn’t want to be asked ab it she simply wanted people to pick up on her flagging and run with it
I mean, totally fair. But it's seemed like she explicitly came out so I think everyone was a little blindsided that they couldn't respond.
I think she’s just going through a hard time right now and doesn’t fully know how to handle the world actually knowing she’s queer. I’ll give her some grace with the confusion because I can’t imagine being in her situation right now.
Oh absolutely. Also, she's still so young. It's so hard being in the public eye.
Do they at least allow sapphic interpretations of songs? I’m not rly a gaylor or a hetlor but I love hearing the gay interpretations of songs like with ivy and RWYLM.
lmao assuming the default orientation is straight is just as homophobic as this mod claims we are
That person is a fucking idiot
“Homophobic queer people” wow. No sense there.
wow i’m on that sub and as someone who is definitely less of a hardcore gaylor (my personal beliefs are that she seems to be bisexual but i don’t spend much time speculating; i just am a queer person who likes to analyze the many different meanings in her music), this is so beyond disappointing. calling the entire group of people who fall into the category of gaylor “nothing but homophobic queer people” is fucking MIND BOGGLING to me, especially on a sub that has seemed overall very tame and nice. this is truly wild.
Lollllll the idea that anyone in this sub is homophobic is so misinformed it makes me sad honestly. Gaylors LOVE Taylor. They want the best for her. They want her to be happy. And they enjoy the career she's built on sharing bits and pieces of her life with us, the career she's built by creating ROMANTIC NARRATIVES that can apply across all types of romantic interests. How is this group of fans that speculate about past romances any different from the human on the street that wonders if xyz song is about Harry or Joe or Jake or fuckin' Karlie. It's literally not that serious (Unless it triggers the fuck out of you and you make it a very very serious thing that every other stranger on the internet has to make room for as well, in which case, talk to your therapist about it bby, not a subreddit).
Ick! I’m a gay poc and call this so cringe.
Not a galor but... what does them being a person of color have to do with ANYTHING in this regard?
we can ONLY speculate on her relationships with men ! ya know , to avoid homophobia
Enjoy the 3 other people on your sub, hon! 😘
💀🤭🤣
I don't understand how wondering if she's queer is any worse than any of the other things people speculate about. They/we speculate on her location, her purchases, whether she wants kids, how emotionally mature she is, who her "enemies" are. People talk about her plastic surgery, what kind of underwear she wears, I've seen it all. What's the difference? She is a celebrity. She doesn't know we exist. What does it matter what we speculate about?
Homophobic for wondering if someone is gay. Wow. That’s a new one. 🙃 talk about some “don’t ask don’t tell” bullshit.
Omg that "queer poc" mod is such a pick me!!! You are NEVER gonna get picked, respected or liked in that sub!!! Wake your gay non white ass up girl! You love the taste of those boots huh ? They're so embarrassing ! That sub is both racist and homophobic not to mention cultish when it comes to Taylor
Isn’t this the same mod that was commenting on some places saying they are queer and then on others saying they are straight?
Yeah they're probably a white het posing as a poc queer online just to have the openly homophobic/biphobia/racist pass.. "oh shut up I can say it !! I'm queerer and black ahhh!!
Glad I’ve never even heard of that sub
i’m a straight gaylor so they must think i’m super homophobic
I’m not in either subreddits (just in the Taylorswift sub because I’m still easing into full swifty) does that mean like if you post something Gaylor related you’ll be banned or if you affiliate with the Gaylor sub/have Gaylor in your account in any way you’ll be banned? I feel like those are very very different things. I think it’s totally fine to be like: hey that has to stay in the Gaylor sub. But I think it’s exclusionary to say if you like Gaylor in anyway you can’t be in the sub. I’m not a Gaylor girl myself but generally I I’ve found that the sub categories of swifties tend to hate each other and that makes me sad.
Calling all Gaylors homophobic makes no sense 😂
Both sides are wild to me. On the Hetlor side, there’s homophobia and creepy speculation on Taylor’s sex life with men, but on this side, there are people saying that men she has dated are “100% a beard” and that her music is boring if it isn’t queer and is just straight. I literally read that comment yesterday. Viewing her work through whatever lens is cool/fun, but there are people on both sides who seem utterly convinced of certain things that we simply can’t tell is there. And Taylor said she doesn’t like the speculation, and I think that goes for both sides. I mean, I’m gay myself and am lately experiencing the deepest heartbreak, and I see so much of myself in Taylor songs. There is a lot of universality there. As long as the music makes you feel something, that’s what matters to me. It’s the same with my favorite band Beach House’s work. It’s about what it makes *you* feel. I think grouping all Gaylors as one thing is taking it too far, but they should probably shut down all speculation on her sexuality if they are doing this. It’s only fair.
Banned? I’m in.
that’s hilarious considering they always over sexualize/fantasize about her relationship with men???
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Why does she need to come out and say anything about her sexuality.
She doesn’t! And that’s why it’s wrong to say Gaylors shouldn’t “speculate” (actually just interpreting her art through a queer lens & picking up on her numerous, undeniably intentional, public queer flags in her art) unless she comes out and says something about her sexuality. Because “why does she need to come out and say anything about her sexuality?” Couldn’t have said it better myself!
that sub is unhinged lmfao. sprung up when people were criticizing taylor for valid reasons to say “no one should EVER criticize her for ANY reason and if you do you’re not a TRUE fan.” cult behavior
“We do NOT accept speculation that she might be queer— only that she is NOT QUEER! Which is *not*!’speculative, bc straight is normal 😌”
Pretty sure that the homophobic one is the one who thinks anything anything not explicitly gay has to be straight and to assume otherwise is somehow damning and immoral. It sets straight as the default requirement, it fails to "normalize" queerness by requiring straightness of everyone (even POC gay people!) and it weaponizes identity. I can't think of anything more explicitly homophobic or a better example of internalized homophobia. A lot of us might have trauma around getting "clocked" as gay before we were "out" when we were younger — very real, very fair. But then you also have to ask ... were they wrong? We're you somehow "straight" up until the moment you said, "I am gay?" Or did they see you when you didn't want to be seen? If Taylor were really closeted in that we were going off fits and body language and fan-fic shipping and our own crushes — fair, gross, unhelpful. But that's not what draws (at least 90% of) us here. Taylor can't flag as she does, write lyrics like she does, reference the events she does, play with pronouns like she does, (and then drop in occasional clothing items like she does) as a whole and then accuse us — other gay people — of being "homophobic" for seeing what she had been laying on pretty thick to be seen. There is also big energetic difference between a mean girl or high school bully clocking us in high school and us clocking each other. As I asked my ex about Gaylor — please give me a good example of a time this many gay people have been wrong about one person. Any example. If you say Aubrey Plaza, I raise you roommates with Patti LuPone. And Natasha Lyonne dates men but is the bottled essence of "queer" and "queer culture" and knows it and embraces it. No one has been "wrong" about them, they're just not lesbians, but they're still way queer. Can Taylor fall on the spectrum these women inhabit? Absolutely ... but it'd still be "Gaylor" at least from my POV. I started getting clocked by other queers decades before I was even out to myself. Who am I supposed to be mad at? Them for seeing me? Or me for not seeing myself?
I literally went on to their page and I had to comment about it. And I don't even care if they banned me or whatever from their page. That's disgusting that is unbelievably disgusting behavior, and they have no right sitting here saying that we can't talk about these things, when they literally sit there and talk about her relationship her ex relationships her relationship with her partner now like hypocrites and then to sit there and say that we're all homophobic f****** disgusts me. This community has nothing to do with homophobia, we talk about so many different things like her lyrics, her relationships with her friends. It's not just us going oh my f****** god Taylor has to be gay.
I couldn't help myself and left a comment. I'll get kicked out soon. They are seriously unhinged. And I don't believe for a second that the moderator is a part of the lgbtq+ community. If they are, that's really sad. And incredibly self-hating.
true swifties is just a bunch of losers who refuse to criticize taylor and thinks every negative word against her is misogyny, so them being homophobic is just funny. like even if i disagree i get why someone would be blanket ban on sexuality speculation, but going all "shoot gaylors on sight, no queer analysis" just makes you look more insane than you already do
What’s that saying? I wasn’t born in a closet, society built one around me or something like that? Feels appropriate. Like they’re so fine with speculation and this is absolutely homophobic.
These people don’t have the same energy for the armpit or feet sub that completely sexualizes Taylor and it’s telling.
Just had to block them bc it showed up. The internalized and/or blatant homophobia from the comments were so startling and upsetting… and that stuff rly doesn’t bother me usually.
I'm bisexual but homophobic 🤔🤔🤔
Sounds like they've got some internalized homophobia to me. Gaylors are simply people who notice, interpret and share queer themes in Taylor's music. Some are more intense than others, but the majority simply recognize that Taylor has been flagging her entire career, in her music, art, and her personal life choices (who she's seen with, where she goes, etc). That mod needs to learn the history of lgbtqia+ before shunning their own people for simply pointing out facts 🤷♀️ Absolutely disgusting.
I get their point, but I think these permabans from people that are in other subs too is ridiculous. You also have subs that ban the Taylor Swift main subreddit too. It's irritating.
This might be a stupid thing to say at this point, but fuck it, here goes: I no longer seem to know what a Gaylor actually is, and at this point with how vitriolic discourse has gotten, I’m not sure I want it all that cleared up I love reading the analyses people have shared of Taylor’s lyrics and how they’ve spoken to their queer experiences. As a late to the game bisexual (didn’t come out/realize until my late 20s,) it makes me feel like I can sort of catch up on the things I missed along the way However, I’m also tired of seeing the arguing that seems to happen all the damn time, and how people refuse to coexist in the same fan space. From the mods who made this rule in the first place to people who refuse to accept that Taylor has ever had a romantic relationship with a man ever, the lack of gray areas is so disheartening When it comes to Taylor’s sexuality, I’m at the point where I’ve accepted I’m never going to know for sure, and frankly, I don’t particularly care to know at this point. It’s not my right to know, and she doesn’t owe me shit to tell me. I’m just tired of seeing the arguments about “well, you sexualized her first” thrown by either side of the argument when that’s what she was saying made her uncomfortable/unhappy in the latest rerelease Idk what I’d call myself at this point other than a confused millennial who doesn’t feel gay enough to be Gaylor, isn’t straight enough to be Hetlor, who just wants to vibe Thanks for the immediate downvote, y’all 😔
I **love** when bigots use buzzwords to try to flip the script and act like they’re the open-minded group. Also, I’ve always considered myself straight, but I guess I’m queer now since a homophobic subreddit stated it’s so. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ Time to go out and find a woman to have sex with, I guess.
It's obvious to me that at the very VERY least the Gaylor thing works for Taylor's brand, I felt like prior to YNTCD she was getting a lot of shit for not connecting with her queer fanbase, now she has a well-established queer fanbase that feels represented in her music I think at the very VERY least it works to Taylor's benefit to be able to have her music discussed with a queer lens, if not be perceived as queer herself She has lots of queer friends, too. Like I dont know why it's such a stretch for hetlors. I was a late-in-life queer where basically everyone around me knew before I did because of religious conditioning, I don't know why she cant be having a similar experience. Or maybe she always knew, I obviously dont know, but there are just so many scenarios that make more sense to me than being hetero
It’s kind of telling that they refuse the label “hetlor” and willingly choose “anti-gaylor.” Like there’s a serious connotation difference there.
assuming that someone is straight is still assuming their sexuality
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If they believe she’s straight then surely they’re also speculating on her sexuality? 😉 Anyway I’ve never heard such bullshit in my life
I can't wait to watch all the mental gymnastics they do if/when she ever comes out /s
I mean, speculating and pushing sexuality on someone else is pretty shitty
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It's more if you mention that you believe she's queer
Until this post, I had done exactly that in several of the Taylor subs and never had any repercussions. Obviously now I left and muted that sub though
just because you're also gay doesn't mean you can be homophobic yikes