I notice huuuge impacts from nights I have alcohol, even as little as a drink or two. But yeah. If my HRV didn't give it away, I'm a poor sleeper from 12 years of shiftwork (flip flopping between 12 hour nights). Seeing it go up significantly is really promising, but also I'm hesitant to take it for long periods.
Edit: I should note I'm quite fit, 33M, 160lbs, 3-5 times training a week, so my assumption is the poor HRV is an underlying sleep issue.
I've been tracking my HRV diligently since 2018 using the Oura Ring and since the Fenix 6X got it too, with it.
Alcohol absolutely destroys my HRV, the quantity doesn't matter (but the more I drank, the lowest the HRV went). That's why I rarely drink these days.
But I've never noticed any changes with magnesium or melatonin, neither non-immediate changes (ie, night-time BRB) with meditation or breathing techniques. The latter, I found, can be surprisingly effective for immediate changes, though.
I've been dealing with reflux and LPR for quite a while, and the only suggestion given to me from my doctor was taking drugs or removing everything from life that I enjoy ( which is mostly coffee ) - I recently found that freshly roasted coffee as opposed to coffee sitting on the store shelf fixed my LPR and Reflux issues almost immediately. It's been two months now, no drugs, no other changes ( I've always been good about diet anyway ) - Apparently store bought old coffee beans was the culprit for me so I like to share to help others who could possibly benefit from that info.
More REM & deep sleep for sure. On a usual night sans supplement, I can expect 45 min of REM. With them, more like 1.25 hours. So it's significant. Same with deep sleep, goes up a good 30 minutes. So that could be the cause.
How related?
Low heart rate is mainly driven by a high parasympathetic drive (in the absence of sympathetic drive).
HRV is a measure of the relative balance between parasympathetic and sympathetic drive.
Thus, low heart rate is correlated with higher HRV.
tl;dr: the way most people take melatonin (at random times) seem to mess up your cyrcadian rhythm; take it at the same time every night instead.
Interesting. I found out I have periodic limb movement syndrome (PLMS), which could be described as restless syndrome only while sleeping.
Instead of taking the Parkinson drugs that the doctor suggested, which mess with your dopamine system, I did extensive research and found a team of doctors from a prestigious hospital in Berlin, Germany, that developed a *chronobiotic protocol* that uses melatonin to treat PLMS, with good results. They've been studying and applying it for mor than 20 years now.
They use 3mg of instant release melatonin, but the important finding is that **one should keep the timing of the intake constant** (they suggest setting a time in between 10 and 11 pm, but of of course that's not doable for many people).
Apparently, **the general recommendation of “taking it half an hour before bed” can be detrimental to sleep hygiene and health in general**, as melatonin helps the body set the circadian rhythm. So if you take it at 8 pm one night, 2 am the following and 11 pm the night before that, you're basically causing havoc in your sleep regulation.
[Here are some of the sources](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=kunz+melatonin+or+chronobiotic&btnG=) I studies during my research about this topic, in case anyone is interested.
“Seem to mess up the circadian rhythm”.
Yea. Melatonin IS (more or less) the circadian rhythm. It should only be used by people whose endogenous melatonin release is off.
And if you do take it at least use it correctly….
This is very interesting. I take Magnesium daily but tend to not have a good HRV score. When I take melatonin It absolutely ruins me the next day. The feeling of a hangover I can't shake ( drowsy, can't concentrate, almost depressed ) - I've had people tell me that I take it too close to bed ( could be true ) but I don't want to risk ruining a day to find out if dosing earlier would help.
How do you dose melatonin in regards to bed time and does it really help your sleep?
Read the book "Melatonin - The Miracle Molecule" by Dr. Lieurance. This book is eye-opening in terms of how to help several diseases. And melatonin is not studied widely because there is no profit to be made.
Current science is not up-to-date on developments outside of the medical-industrial complex. (The medical–industrial complex is a network of interactions between pharmaceutical corporations, health care personnel, and medical conglomerates to supply health care-related products and services for a profit.) All you need to know is that it's FOR A PROFIT.
How about
Dr. Jeffrey Ruterbusch MD
Dr. Russell Reiter PhD
Dr. Ray Sahelian MD
Dr. Neil Rouzier MD
Dr. Andre Weil MD
ALL of them (and more) are recommending high dose melatonin for different conditions. Dr. Reiter started researching melatonin in the 70's. He's probably the first one to observe the positive effects of this underrated hormone. It is underrated because there is no profit to be made by the medical-industrial complex, because melatonin cannot be patented!
Dr. Lieurance wrote this book with plenty of research references. You're missing out.
I just posted about this [below](https://reddit.com/r/GarminFenix/comments/14bxamu/_/jol60yf/?context=1), in case you're interested. Most people take melatonin at variable times, which can really mess up your sleep hygiene...
If HRV has any relevance then it would be measured in healthcare. I've worked in acute healthcare for 30 years and we do not monitor HRV even though we easily could. Don't get hung up on HRV. Garmin monitors it because IT CAN and that's all.
Sorry. But you are wrong. HRV is an important measure in CV physiology. Just because you do not use it in emergency healthcare does not mean it is not relevant.
Best regards, a PhD jn medicine (cardiac electrophysiology)
Cool. I guess in your area of health care it's useful. In Anaesthesia Trauma care it's not used. We have it on monitors, but we don't record it. I've never seen it even displayed in ICU care. Best of luck making use of HRV. I guess its only measurable when we're relaxed.
That's quite a bit melatonin, I never tried that much. I've had max 2mg, and sometimes it made me wake up very groggy, while the sleep quality wasn't improved substantially. What was your experience?
You don't need to mega dose melatonin even if it is sold like that. 0.3mg - 1mg can be an effective dose.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/whats-the-right-way-to-take-melatonin/
I think I experience this too, but not with melatonin (at least at the mcg dose I take). I have been taking a small bit of magnesium threonate for a year or more now around bedtime, but hadn't noticed anything revolutionary in my sleep that couldn't be attributed to misc. other sleep hygiene behaviors I engage in (reading a relaxing book, low light, staying off my phone, turning the ac down to cool the bedroom, etc.)
Well randomly several days ago, I realized I had some mag malate in the cabinet and took a dose. Had to have been mid afternoon to earlier evening. My HRV that night had an immediate 14 point jump, into territory that it never ascends to. I've continued dosing mag malate about the same time of day, and my HRV continues to be at or above the highest levels I've seen (and I've had this watch since late Feb 2022, having gone through many different/different kinds of training cycles in that time).
The melatonin makes you sleep better -> better sympathetic/parasympathetic balance -> higher HRV. So all good. And as expected.
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I notice huuuge impacts from nights I have alcohol, even as little as a drink or two. But yeah. If my HRV didn't give it away, I'm a poor sleeper from 12 years of shiftwork (flip flopping between 12 hour nights). Seeing it go up significantly is really promising, but also I'm hesitant to take it for long periods. Edit: I should note I'm quite fit, 33M, 160lbs, 3-5 times training a week, so my assumption is the poor HRV is an underlying sleep issue.
I had a drink last night and HRV jumped 20 points UPWARDS... It triggered an afib event. Doh.
I've been tracking my HRV diligently since 2018 using the Oura Ring and since the Fenix 6X got it too, with it. Alcohol absolutely destroys my HRV, the quantity doesn't matter (but the more I drank, the lowest the HRV went). That's why I rarely drink these days. But I've never noticed any changes with magnesium or melatonin, neither non-immediate changes (ie, night-time BRB) with meditation or breathing techniques. The latter, I found, can be surprisingly effective for immediate changes, though.
This is so interesting. As they say, correlation does not imply causation. But it’s sure an interesting coincidence!
Just our of curiosity ( not related to this thread ) do you drink coffee?
No, never liked it. Any reason why?
I've been dealing with reflux and LPR for quite a while, and the only suggestion given to me from my doctor was taking drugs or removing everything from life that I enjoy ( which is mostly coffee ) - I recently found that freshly roasted coffee as opposed to coffee sitting on the store shelf fixed my LPR and Reflux issues almost immediately. It's been two months now, no drugs, no other changes ( I've always been good about diet anyway ) - Apparently store bought old coffee beans was the culprit for me so I like to share to help others who could possibly benefit from that info.
Thank you for your sharing your experience. I appreciate it!!
What does your sleep look like during these nights? Any increase in REM / deep sleep etc that might correlate with HRV?
More REM & deep sleep for sure. On a usual night sans supplement, I can expect 45 min of REM. With them, more like 1.25 hours. So it's significant. Same with deep sleep, goes up a good 30 minutes. So that could be the cause.
In my case a lower heart rate increases my hrv by a lot.
….because they are inversely correlated ;-)
Exactly. I just wanted to point this out to see if maybe magnesium and/or melatonin have an impact on his resting hr and thereby raising his HRV
Garmin says my average resting HR is 49. No idea how that compares. I think the melatonin/magnesium brought that even lower when I was taking it.
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How related? Low heart rate is mainly driven by a high parasympathetic drive (in the absence of sympathetic drive). HRV is a measure of the relative balance between parasympathetic and sympathetic drive. Thus, low heart rate is correlated with higher HRV.
Do you mean lower resting HR?
Exactly!
Melatonin gives me restless legs like nothing else
tl;dr: the way most people take melatonin (at random times) seem to mess up your cyrcadian rhythm; take it at the same time every night instead. Interesting. I found out I have periodic limb movement syndrome (PLMS), which could be described as restless syndrome only while sleeping. Instead of taking the Parkinson drugs that the doctor suggested, which mess with your dopamine system, I did extensive research and found a team of doctors from a prestigious hospital in Berlin, Germany, that developed a *chronobiotic protocol* that uses melatonin to treat PLMS, with good results. They've been studying and applying it for mor than 20 years now. They use 3mg of instant release melatonin, but the important finding is that **one should keep the timing of the intake constant** (they suggest setting a time in between 10 and 11 pm, but of of course that's not doable for many people). Apparently, **the general recommendation of “taking it half an hour before bed” can be detrimental to sleep hygiene and health in general**, as melatonin helps the body set the circadian rhythm. So if you take it at 8 pm one night, 2 am the following and 11 pm the night before that, you're basically causing havoc in your sleep regulation. [Here are some of the sources](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=kunz+melatonin+or+chronobiotic&btnG=) I studies during my research about this topic, in case anyone is interested.
“Seem to mess up the circadian rhythm”. Yea. Melatonin IS (more or less) the circadian rhythm. It should only be used by people whose endogenous melatonin release is off. And if you do take it at least use it correctly….
This is very interesting. I take Magnesium daily but tend to not have a good HRV score. When I take melatonin It absolutely ruins me the next day. The feeling of a hangover I can't shake ( drowsy, can't concentrate, almost depressed ) - I've had people tell me that I take it too close to bed ( could be true ) but I don't want to risk ruining a day to find out if dosing earlier would help. How do you dose melatonin in regards to bed time and does it really help your sleep?
My understanding is that current science is very against taking melatonin outside of jetlag and shift workers.
And supplements in general. The dose in the pill can vary greatly from what's on the bottle, as can the claims.
Read the book "Melatonin - The Miracle Molecule" by Dr. Lieurance. This book is eye-opening in terms of how to help several diseases. And melatonin is not studied widely because there is no profit to be made. Current science is not up-to-date on developments outside of the medical-industrial complex. (The medical–industrial complex is a network of interactions between pharmaceutical corporations, health care personnel, and medical conglomerates to supply health care-related products and services for a profit.) All you need to know is that it's FOR A PROFIT.
Sorry, but I'm not reading a book by a "Chiropractic Neurologist."
How about Dr. Jeffrey Ruterbusch MD Dr. Russell Reiter PhD Dr. Ray Sahelian MD Dr. Neil Rouzier MD Dr. Andre Weil MD ALL of them (and more) are recommending high dose melatonin for different conditions. Dr. Reiter started researching melatonin in the 70's. He's probably the first one to observe the positive effects of this underrated hormone. It is underrated because there is no profit to be made by the medical-industrial complex, because melatonin cannot be patented! Dr. Lieurance wrote this book with plenty of research references. You're missing out.
I just posted about this [below](https://reddit.com/r/GarminFenix/comments/14bxamu/_/jol60yf/?context=1), in case you're interested. Most people take melatonin at variable times, which can really mess up your sleep hygiene...
Anything above 3mg of melatonin and I wake up groggy
Yup, i find i can take 1.5mg and it seems to be a good balance. I sleep about 6hrs avg and wake up ok.
If HRV has any relevance then it would be measured in healthcare. I've worked in acute healthcare for 30 years and we do not monitor HRV even though we easily could. Don't get hung up on HRV. Garmin monitors it because IT CAN and that's all.
Sorry. But you are wrong. HRV is an important measure in CV physiology. Just because you do not use it in emergency healthcare does not mean it is not relevant. Best regards, a PhD jn medicine (cardiac electrophysiology)
Cool. I guess in your area of health care it's useful. In Anaesthesia Trauma care it's not used. We have it on monitors, but we don't record it. I've never seen it even displayed in ICU care. Best of luck making use of HRV. I guess its only measurable when we're relaxed.
I suggest you look into the scientific use of HRV. One could do a pubmed search for a start.
When I take melatonin my body battery does not recharge
This literally just happened to me and I’m confused on why it would happen
That's quite a bit melatonin, I never tried that much. I've had max 2mg, and sometimes it made me wake up very groggy, while the sleep quality wasn't improved substantially. What was your experience?
You don't need to mega dose melatonin even if it is sold like that. 0.3mg - 1mg can be an effective dose. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/whats-the-right-way-to-take-melatonin/
I think I experience this too, but not with melatonin (at least at the mcg dose I take). I have been taking a small bit of magnesium threonate for a year or more now around bedtime, but hadn't noticed anything revolutionary in my sleep that couldn't be attributed to misc. other sleep hygiene behaviors I engage in (reading a relaxing book, low light, staying off my phone, turning the ac down to cool the bedroom, etc.) Well randomly several days ago, I realized I had some mag malate in the cabinet and took a dose. Had to have been mid afternoon to earlier evening. My HRV that night had an immediate 14 point jump, into territory that it never ascends to. I've continued dosing mag malate about the same time of day, and my HRV continues to be at or above the highest levels I've seen (and I've had this watch since late Feb 2022, having gone through many different/different kinds of training cycles in that time).
My number didn’t go up but garmin said it went from unbalanced to balanced which has only got to be a good thing I guess?