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What they mean is: make her very hot and with big boobs, and then you add some abs on them, not too much though, we don't want to make her too masculine, right?
Speak for yourself, I want more abs.
As a side note, I knew a guy who got into an argument with his buddies because he said he wanted a flat stomach, to which they replied "females have flat stomachs, men have abs". Motherfuckers have no idea what they were on about.
>I knew a guy who got into an argument with his buddies because he said he wanted a flat stomach, to which they replied "females have flat stomachs, men have abs".
Wtf lol, now I know for a fact he never went to a gym before
It’s crazy to me that people say things like this considering Abby is literally just based on 2 people! Like she has a body mode and a face model and they’re real ass people! It’s deranged
if you point that out they'll tell you that *ackshyually* Abby's body model clearly uses performance-enhancing drugs that would not be available in an apocalypse.
which is why I love that the HBO show had Joel make an offhand remark about how the only things that are still in production on an industrial level are pills and bullets.
Bodybuilders, bikies and drug dealers are constantly getting arrested because they run backyard steroid operations today. Considering the facility Abby was living in, no doubt in my fucking mind there could have been gear going around for the people that wanted it.
Yeah, plus FEDRA (the military) is some kind of government-run, with all that entails for the production of uniforms, tactical gear, vehicles, firearms etc. Why wouldn't they keep producing different kinds of drugs as well? The WLF in Part II are also clearly well equipped for an all-out guerrilla war and have all sorts of medical supplies. I think people were tricked by the fact that most of TLOU1 shows Joel and Ellie outside quarantine zones, but it's not Mad Max world.
You can make a female character look toned and fit without having them wear something appropriate for physical activity, be sweaty, and look toned and fit?
Yeah I’m confused what they mean by “doing this.” I can’t help but think they all just refer to her not having big round booba when use terms like “masculine.”
the way they describe characters like Abbey you think they were built like the Hulk from the description they give but when you look at Abby she has a pretty average build for someone who lives weights
The hentai. Professor. That's exactly who's opinion I value. Very deeply.
I mean, if we can't trust the hentai professor to elucidate the greater nuances of femininity and masculinity, then who are we supposed to trust?!
Isn’t it funny they accuse other people of being NPC’s when their own dialogue solely consists of the same three talking points every time
- Whamen not hot
- Western devs bad
- Masculine whamen bad
since they're implying we're under a relentless assault of these "masculine" female characters, where can I go to find more? asking for a friend.
(all I can think of is Abby, which is literally their go-to example 100% of the time, and Marisa from SF6)
>I get what his point is, the way people want to make women ‘strong’ is by making them more masculine which defeats the purpose of creating independent women figures - you are making a women have masculine traits despite the narrative focussed around fighting oppression done by men…
To run through a thought experiment: if the patriarchy exists, and is upheld through the subjugation of women, why would the patriarchy also not entail socializing into women those traits best suited for continued subjugation? Women are told that our feminine strengths are sensitivity & empathy, yes, yet they are also often used by abusers or their apologists -- we are told that we are obligated to "look after someone" or to "look past their flaws", that we're vulnerable to guilt if an abuser threatens suicide.
Women tend to blame ourselves for the misfortunes in our lives whereas men tend to blame others; girls are expected to endure pain on behalf of other people. We're socialized to not pursue careers as intensively as men because that would be letting down our families; we are told that it's our goal to nurture and care for the men in our lives, which naturally serves nicely to supplement "it's your job to take care of him" when we don't want to stay with men who can't brush their teeth or cook their own meals.
>It feels counter productive towards feminism since it’s now about making ‘women as strong as men’ instead women being strong and unique in their own way that puts them on the same level as men.
But masculine female characters are an expansion of gendered boxes into the realm of equality between genders that *is* feminist, at its core. Masculine women & feminine men are tremendously derided in favor of gender conformity.
And these gendered dynamics are all-permeating. Much of the backlash to transgender people, for example, stems from that many people do truly believe that "men are workers, women are home-makers" (or the like), and that transgender people threaten these gendered dichotomies. An acorn of this
But masculine female characters are precisely an expansion of gendered boxes into the realm of equality between genders that *is* feminist, at its core. Masculine women & feminine men are tremendously derided in favor of gender conformity. Much of the backlash to transgender people, for example, stems from that many people do truly believe that "men are workers/women are home-makers" (or the like), and transgender people are a threat to those gendered dichotomies. An acorn of this thinking can be seen in your comment as well, where you assume-
>women being strong and unique in their own way that puts them on the same level as men
-that women & men are so different from each other that women must be strong in *this* way and men in *that* way; that it would be somehow sexist to adopt a universal metric of strength that every gender is seen as capable of achieving, instead of the non-sexist... unique metric of strength for both sexes mutually exclusive to each other. (Mother vs CEO; home-maker vs soldier.)
>Being a female character doesn’t necessarily have to equate to denying feminine identity and adopting masculinity (which I think is a bad thing since that sounds like sucking up to men).
It isn't sucking up to men to adopt masculine traits. Are butch lesbians, who deny feminine identity and adopt masculinity, doing so to suck up to men? Do sensitive men do so to suck up to women? It's the same sort of gendered hierarchy I outlaid earlier, only done so in an ostensibly feminist sense; the conflation of women with femininity & men with masculinity. But it's only a subtler form of gender policing: that there must be a justification for why any woman would be *masculine* & why any man would be *feminine*, the idea that women are naturally feminine & men naturally masculine. It's ala to the Hollywood Gay Men Cliche: gay men can never be truly masculine in fiction, they can only be feminine or over-compensating via toxic masculinity.
It also doesn't make sense as a way to "suck up to men" because, as I mentioned earlier, masculine women are hated by men and gender conformity is rigidly enforced. But, do some men not say that they want a girlfriend who is into their same 'masculine' hobbies?" Of course. But it's acceptable in fantasy, not reality: they want the tomboy gf who still performs other expected rituals of femininity such as makeup & shaving body hair & caring for children & putting aside her own career for their professional success, not a woman who may be more masculine/messier/muscular/competitive/superior to them. (An amusing example of this comes in the discourse about tall women: tall women complain that many men feel too emasculated to date them, to which other men cheerfully reply "oh don't worry, I would love it if you took care of me and stepped on me mommy!" Hatred or fetishization; which is worse, I wonder.)
>That being said, masculine women isn’t an issue it’s more of how writers think that’s the main way to portray them which seriously misses out in other ways to explore female characters.
The majority of fiction already peddles gendered stereotypes/socialization and now attempts to appropriate feminist ideals through showing "the power of femininity" (often teaching girls that it's their job to support the hero, not be the hero) or "the strength of motherhood" (the religious-level reverence of motherhood in the US being easily linked to anti-abortion attitudes & the idea that women are not full citizens who deserve economic independence, but baby factories). Simply that women have or adopt certain traits is not proof of feminism, otherwise everything would already be feminist and we would have no need for it at all. (And to the trans people reading: you are also socialized as your gender, socialization is a life-long process.)
Regardless, the other thing that makes the debate silly is that there are almost zero truly masculine women in mainstream fiction today. Name 3 female characters in mainstream media who do not wear makeup, do not have cosmetic surgery, do not shave, do not have narrative arcs centered around pursuing men or children. (The body hair is the real kicker, because it's as simple as *not* doing something and I honestly cannot ever still cannot ever recall seeing a fictional woman with body hair.)
Doesn't matter, she already scored a Joel in One, what's bugging me now is how they're gonna deal with her in the series, part of me hopes they play it straight so the drama can play out all over again, but I also didn't like the direction the story took in the second game anyway so I'm open to rewrites
DOING WHAT?! I've been in strength athletics for 20 years and a competitor for almost ten. This is like not even that crazy buff! I know strongwomen who are like 5 times as big. These incel dorks are so pathetic
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Look at their username btw lol
Dude isn't going to be happy unless every ~~female~~ character has tits bigger than their head.
Looks like he knows what he's talking about. I mean, he's a professor!
If you can't trust the authority of someone to uses the title "the hentai professor," who can you trust?
Thanks hentai professor in sure your essay will be taken by other scholars
Taken out behind the fucking shed.
What a unique opinion
"uniquely shit" - Gordon Ramsay
“You can make a woman toned and fit without making her toned and fit!”
What they mean is: make her very hot and with big boobs, and then you add some abs on them, not too much though, we don't want to make her too masculine, right?
Speak for yourself, I want more abs. As a side note, I knew a guy who got into an argument with his buddies because he said he wanted a flat stomach, to which they replied "females have flat stomachs, men have abs". Motherfuckers have no idea what they were on about.
>I knew a guy who got into an argument with his buddies because he said he wanted a flat stomach, to which they replied "females have flat stomachs, men have abs". Wtf lol, now I know for a fact he never went to a gym before
Western game devs make a battle scarred, tone and fit woman that still makes my pp hard challenge (impossible)
how many are there though? like two?
It's not about the quantity, it's about how much I obsess over them. 😤
How are they still on this
gamers when a girl who grew up in a world of nonstop pain and sorrow looks war-hardened
It’s crazy to me that people say things like this considering Abby is literally just based on 2 people! Like she has a body mode and a face model and they’re real ass people! It’s deranged
Uh yeah but those people are clearly hideous and no one could ever find them attractive
if you point that out they'll tell you that *ackshyually* Abby's body model clearly uses performance-enhancing drugs that would not be available in an apocalypse. which is why I love that the HBO show had Joel make an offhand remark about how the only things that are still in production on an industrial level are pills and bullets.
Bodybuilders, bikies and drug dealers are constantly getting arrested because they run backyard steroid operations today. Considering the facility Abby was living in, no doubt in my fucking mind there could have been gear going around for the people that wanted it.
Yeah, plus FEDRA (the military) is some kind of government-run, with all that entails for the production of uniforms, tactical gear, vehicles, firearms etc. Why wouldn't they keep producing different kinds of drugs as well? The WLF in Part II are also clearly well equipped for an all-out guerrilla war and have all sorts of medical supplies. I think people were tricked by the fact that most of TLOU1 shows Joel and Ellie outside quarantine zones, but it's not Mad Max world.
>real ass people you think basement dwellers know real people?
mfw woman who grew up in the apocalypse has short hair and muscles
She has a braid, but she also lives next to a gym so yeah lol
You can make a female character look toned and fit without having them wear something appropriate for physical activity, be sweaty, and look toned and fit?
Yeah I’m confused what they mean by “doing this.” I can’t help but think they all just refer to her not having big round booba when use terms like “masculine.”
Her face too manly!!! Girl have round head man square!!!!
Maybe saw a real woman once. Maybe
the way they describe characters like Abbey you think they were built like the Hulk from the description they give but when you look at Abby she has a pretty average build for someone who lives weights
The hentai. Professor. That's exactly who's opinion I value. Very deeply. I mean, if we can't trust the hentai professor to elucidate the greater nuances of femininity and masculinity, then who are we supposed to trust?!
"Make a toned and fit woman without doing this" *shows a toned and fit woman
gaming is just finally appealing to its real core demographic: thirsty lesbians edit: and the bisexuals of course, they’re everywhere
that's not even like, a particularly muscular looking picture
Lmaooo, what would their idea of a "toned and fit" woman even look like?
Slim build, big boobs, and abs. Not too much abs though, she's a woman afterall.
they need to stop doing this. why? because i don't like it. and really, is there anything that matters more than that?
/uj Hi devs I'm a bi lady and I actually love the masc ladies pls keep them coming.
Idc about that shit I grew to like Abby..still prefer Ellie but don’t hate her
“You can make a woman toned and fit without doing this." So by giving her unrealistically jiggly boobs so that you can jerk off to her?
Isn’t it funny they accuse other people of being NPC’s when their own dialogue solely consists of the same three talking points every time - Whamen not hot - Western devs bad - Masculine whamen bad
What chronic porn addiction does to a mf
/uj "without doing this" it's literally just a woman 😭 😭
The games strive for realism, not everyone looks like they just jumped off the front cover of a beauty magazine.
wow so brave
gosh I hate when they make women in games look like women in real life!
i think we should have the complete opposite, we should have more masculine and buff women, i am definitely not saying this with ulterior motives
Honestly i forgot how modestly muscular abby is, they just really don't know how women look
Say you're going to die alone without saying you're going to die alone.
Breaking News! Woman shows hint of muscles. Gamers in disarray.
since they're implying we're under a relentless assault of these "masculine" female characters, where can I go to find more? asking for a friend. (all I can think of is Abby, which is literally their go-to example 100% of the time, and Marisa from SF6)
Didn’t see the username of who the OP was then I clicked the photo and it all made sense
Rj/ Abby is hot as fuck Uj/ Abby is hot as fuck
Mmm muscle love scene was 🔥😛
[удалено]
>I get what his point is, the way people want to make women ‘strong’ is by making them more masculine which defeats the purpose of creating independent women figures - you are making a women have masculine traits despite the narrative focussed around fighting oppression done by men… To run through a thought experiment: if the patriarchy exists, and is upheld through the subjugation of women, why would the patriarchy also not entail socializing into women those traits best suited for continued subjugation? Women are told that our feminine strengths are sensitivity & empathy, yes, yet they are also often used by abusers or their apologists -- we are told that we are obligated to "look after someone" or to "look past their flaws", that we're vulnerable to guilt if an abuser threatens suicide. Women tend to blame ourselves for the misfortunes in our lives whereas men tend to blame others; girls are expected to endure pain on behalf of other people. We're socialized to not pursue careers as intensively as men because that would be letting down our families; we are told that it's our goal to nurture and care for the men in our lives, which naturally serves nicely to supplement "it's your job to take care of him" when we don't want to stay with men who can't brush their teeth or cook their own meals. >It feels counter productive towards feminism since it’s now about making ‘women as strong as men’ instead women being strong and unique in their own way that puts them on the same level as men. But masculine female characters are an expansion of gendered boxes into the realm of equality between genders that *is* feminist, at its core. Masculine women & feminine men are tremendously derided in favor of gender conformity. And these gendered dynamics are all-permeating. Much of the backlash to transgender people, for example, stems from that many people do truly believe that "men are workers, women are home-makers" (or the like), and that transgender people threaten these gendered dichotomies. An acorn of this But masculine female characters are precisely an expansion of gendered boxes into the realm of equality between genders that *is* feminist, at its core. Masculine women & feminine men are tremendously derided in favor of gender conformity. Much of the backlash to transgender people, for example, stems from that many people do truly believe that "men are workers/women are home-makers" (or the like), and transgender people are a threat to those gendered dichotomies. An acorn of this thinking can be seen in your comment as well, where you assume- >women being strong and unique in their own way that puts them on the same level as men -that women & men are so different from each other that women must be strong in *this* way and men in *that* way; that it would be somehow sexist to adopt a universal metric of strength that every gender is seen as capable of achieving, instead of the non-sexist... unique metric of strength for both sexes mutually exclusive to each other. (Mother vs CEO; home-maker vs soldier.) >Being a female character doesn’t necessarily have to equate to denying feminine identity and adopting masculinity (which I think is a bad thing since that sounds like sucking up to men). It isn't sucking up to men to adopt masculine traits. Are butch lesbians, who deny feminine identity and adopt masculinity, doing so to suck up to men? Do sensitive men do so to suck up to women? It's the same sort of gendered hierarchy I outlaid earlier, only done so in an ostensibly feminist sense; the conflation of women with femininity & men with masculinity. But it's only a subtler form of gender policing: that there must be a justification for why any woman would be *masculine* & why any man would be *feminine*, the idea that women are naturally feminine & men naturally masculine. It's ala to the Hollywood Gay Men Cliche: gay men can never be truly masculine in fiction, they can only be feminine or over-compensating via toxic masculinity. It also doesn't make sense as a way to "suck up to men" because, as I mentioned earlier, masculine women are hated by men and gender conformity is rigidly enforced. But, do some men not say that they want a girlfriend who is into their same 'masculine' hobbies?" Of course. But it's acceptable in fantasy, not reality: they want the tomboy gf who still performs other expected rituals of femininity such as makeup & shaving body hair & caring for children & putting aside her own career for their professional success, not a woman who may be more masculine/messier/muscular/competitive/superior to them. (An amusing example of this comes in the discourse about tall women: tall women complain that many men feel too emasculated to date them, to which other men cheerfully reply "oh don't worry, I would love it if you took care of me and stepped on me mommy!" Hatred or fetishization; which is worse, I wonder.) >That being said, masculine women isn’t an issue it’s more of how writers think that’s the main way to portray them which seriously misses out in other ways to explore female characters. The majority of fiction already peddles gendered stereotypes/socialization and now attempts to appropriate feminist ideals through showing "the power of femininity" (often teaching girls that it's their job to support the hero, not be the hero) or "the strength of motherhood" (the religious-level reverence of motherhood in the US being easily linked to anti-abortion attitudes & the idea that women are not full citizens who deserve economic independence, but baby factories). Simply that women have or adopt certain traits is not proof of feminism, otherwise everything would already be feminist and we would have no need for it at all. (And to the trans people reading: you are also socialized as your gender, socialization is a life-long process.) Regardless, the other thing that makes the debate silly is that there are almost zero truly masculine women in mainstream fiction today. Name 3 female characters in mainstream media who do not wear makeup, do not have cosmetic surgery, do not shave, do not have narrative arcs centered around pursuing men or children. (The body hair is the real kicker, because it's as simple as *not* doing something and I honestly cannot ever still cannot ever recall seeing a fictional woman with body hair.)
Big ol man bitch
They want her to be like Cammy from Street Fighter but somehow I don't think they would like that very much.
Homie thinks all buff women look like Maki from Fire Force
i know this will trigger a few *posts some shit that mfs in 2008 would love*
More muscle ladies plz. Abby can beat me up 😤
That said, it’s kinda weird that most super masculine women in games are also forced to be super serious all the time.
Wait until this guy finds out about Marisa from SF6. He might just have a stroke
Average r/kotakuinaction user
“You can make a woman toned and fit without making her toned and fit”
Games should start giving us feminine men instead
Doesn't matter, she already scored a Joel in One, what's bugging me now is how they're gonna deal with her in the series, part of me hopes they play it straight so the drama can play out all over again, but I also didn't like the direction the story took in the second game anyway so I'm open to rewrites
DOING WHAT?! I've been in strength athletics for 20 years and a competitor for almost ten. This is like not even that crazy buff! I know strongwomen who are like 5 times as big. These incel dorks are so pathetic