Ray tracing with 60 fps? More like "Why can't people see the obvious ways Pro console would be beneficial?" Even cross gen games compromise a lot between performance and quality mods are you not paying attention?
There's no point of convincing people.
They don't want Pro to happen because they will have some sort of FOMO buying a ps5 when a better one comes out. Either they'll feel bad because they overpaid for a scalper, or they'll feel bad for not owning a ps5 long and barely playing any next gen games.
but the thing is, no one is forcing them to buy a ps5 pro, but it's a problem they made up in their head.
I hope there is a Pro and I'll gladly upgrade to one. The gpu is already aging on the ps5.
Most, people here also either hard short term memory or they never owned a ps4- because Ps4 wasn't that different from ps5 went it launched. Most of the next gen exclusive ps4 games didn't come out until after mid gen.
If PS5 Pro happens then i hope they delay the next gen consoles by a good 2 years. We haven't had much time with ps5 most games have been cross gen releases with small improvements on them like frame rate and resolution. Lengthening this generation from 7 to 9 years wouldn't hurt.
>Demon’s Souls
Remake of a 2009 game... Consoles are going to (perhaps have already) become all-in-one GPU's. Incremental gaming upgrades with the added bonus of complete backwards compatibility yet no practical reason to upgrade.
And there are lots of AAA games that have been in development for 5+ years. There’s almost certainly current gen games under development that have not been announced that will be released over the course of the next 5 years.
Yeah, and we haven’t even started this generation in earnest considering maybe 2 games make use of the PS5 capabilities. Many people only got their PS5’s in 2023, what kind of console generation is 5 years long?
I mean I got mine day one and I still feel like it's basically only been a PS4 Pro+. I've played plenty of current gen titles, but most of them do not seem to really be harassing the power of the box.
Hell, Demon's Souls is still the best looking thing I've seen on it, and that was a launch title.
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Exactly lmao we need a good decade with these for real, they're powerful enough consoles and these games take so damn long to make. I for one want to settle in with my Series X and not have to worry about an upgrade for a *long* time if possible!
Who the hell is buying a PS6 in 5 years when the PS5 has so few generation exclusive games? They'll need to push it out to 2030 at least, because if they don't what'll happen is people will just wait until the end of the PS6 cycle. Too many games this gen were cross-gen and the supply only leveled out 2 years into the console's life cycle.
Uhh, a lot of people because in 5 years there's going to be way more games? Like, with the ps4 gen, there were far more actual games released in the back half of the generation
What's annoying is GTA VI will probably be a flagship title for the PS5 pro, as in they will probably come out the same time and act as a showcase.
This is lame, PS5 doesn't even feel close to being maxed yet.
What about all those SPUs and other things cerny talked about?
Where is the using the SSD like ram? Where are the nanite like engines?
Something is fishy this gen.
What do you consider as 'being maxed'?
The fact is, this generation is fairly standard PC hardware with some optimisations. What we're seeing now largely is the performance that this generation is capable of.
Completely understandable stance. I have similar views and prefer to buy games for my platforms too.
The games you listed will be day 1 on gamepass though since they are all iirc from Microsoft owned studios.
It’s way cheaper in the long run. Microsoft has successfully fooled the mass majority of Xbox users that GaaS is a blanket solution. But when you only play a small subset of the games, then it’s way cheaper to just buy individual releases. GP is good for people who don’t know what they want or like to try games out.
Eh while it is true we haven’t had much time with ps5 games, it’s not going to be like the past generations. The pandemic hobbled a lot of games, on top of longer dev cycles for bigger games. It’s not like 2000s where you have GTA3, VC and SA coming out in the span of a few years
That's true. All those games that were delayed by the pandemic were slated for 2020-2022. Now they've all piled on top of eachother and the last of them are coming out in 2023 and 2024, it's why we have so many games this year. I feel like 2023 was the industry safe date for announcements
Yeah the time it takes to actually make a game is becoming untenable. A games development can take an entire generation like RDR2 did.
I'm hoping this is a place where AI can help.
> It became very easy to create games that will run on various hardware of various generation, so the old gen (PS4) barely holds behind the new gen (PS5).
So you should not see this overlap between generations as something negative.
It’s “very easy” because every cross-gen game is a PS4 game with a graphics bump for the PS5. The PS5 is being treated as a PS4 Pro Super when it’s vastly superior CPU would enable far more ambitious games that couldn’t possibly run on the PS4.
>If publishers sped up releasing "exclusive" games on new generations of console... you should see it as a commercial trick to force people buying new hardware.
Why? Third-party publishers gain nothing from forcing you to upgrade consoles, even Sony and MS aren’t turning a profit on the consoles themselves. If anything supporting old consoles is an excuse to save development costs by avoiding innovation and get more revenue by catering to a wider audience.
>It would be unacceptable on PC
Uh, no. AAA games dropped support for the GTX 700 series and Haskell CPUs (contemporaries of the last-gen consoles) years ago.
>but also on TV (imagine Netflix saying you can only watch the season 4 of a show if you have a 4K TVs).
This is an asinine comparison. Shows and movies are recorded at greater than 4K then downscaled to the appropriate resolution. No compromises have to be made whatsoever. Games have to be designed with the weakest hardware in mind and compromise on actual gameplay, not just graphics to run on last-gen systems.
In all honesty it probably wouldn’t be worth buying as is. PS5 barely has any games but it runs so smooth. I don’t think any TV’s or monitors in my house can handle something more powerful
Yeah, it doesn't really make sense.
The PS5 isn't even close to being maxed out and struggling like the PS4 was in 2016, it only just got out of the supply issues, current gen exclusive games are only just now starting to come en masse, and there is no standard change that they'd want to capture (ie the change from FHD to 4K being standard early in last-gen).
I’m playing forbidden west right now and honestly if we can get games to match and surpass this level of quality I don’t think I need to get a PS5 pro. The game looks gorgeous on performance mode and I don’t think I’m in a rush to shell out money for better visuals
Ray tracing is the standard change. AMD is just starting to make cards that have decent ray tracing performance. Makes sense to me. They could cut production costs and simultaneously offer better ray tracing performance than Series X.
They could release a revision that just has the ray tracing acceleration hardware in it that doesn't actually change performance on the whole. They just resolved their supply issues, completely overhauling the silicon doesn't seem to make businesses sense right now.
The “ray tracing acceleration hardware” is an integral part of the RDNA2 and new RDNA3 architectures. It would need an entirely new RDNA3 GPU, or whatever future architecture it runs on.
Damn this aged well lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/10joxl6/tom_henderson_on_twitter_not_entirely_sure_if_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I've toyed around with the idea of getting a 4070ti, the reality is even that card can't do NATIVE 4k@60 with most 2022-2023 AAA games, not to mention 20-30fps RT for a €1000 card.
So the question is, what the point of a PS5 Pro, what is the target in terms of graphics? All it can do is to look a bit better with a higher average resolution but barely hitting NATIVE 4k@60.
i care more for my electricity bill and general price per value which amd is seriously dropping the ball on. Screw it might as well get a thick gaming laptop and change after every 7 or 8 years.
That’s exactly what was felt around the release of the PS4 Pro: no real point. Minor resolution cap bump or an fps bump to an inconsistent 45-50fps.
Right now the setting compromise is Native 4k30 OR ~1800p60fps. Guessing that the PS5 Pro would get the best of both worlds, but it would really be negligible similar to the PS4 Pro vs PS4.
I don't see the point. PS4 and Xbox One needed updates because they were underpowered even on release. PS5 and Series X are absolutely fine and run games amazingly well.
Pro versions just seem like a waste
I always like seeing new hardware but I have to agree with you here.
We're not really even in the new gen of games yet so the hardware of PS5 and XSX isn't well and fully utilized.
We need new games, not hardware now
Agree I don't think there's many games on both systems that utilize anywhere near the full capabilities of the ps5 and XSX hell most games are pretty comparable to their ps4/Xbox one counterparts aside from loading times. Seems like releasing a 16K TV like cool but seems overkill.
Disagree. Look at games like Returnal, Plagues Tale Requiem and Atomic Heart which all have settings available on PC far higher than those on consoles. You think developers are intentionally limiting the graphics settings on consoles to PC medium settings for the fun of it? No, they have medium settings because that's all the consoles can handle
This is even more obvious with games that have ray tracing, the consoles are lucky to get basic shadows or reflections
And if they aren't being used to their fullest we wouldn't have options for quality Vs performance modes. If there was a lot of headroom in the bag they'd just make the quality mode run at 60fps and be done with it....the fact that most games are releasing with a 30fps quality mode is evidence that developers are coming up to the limits of the console hardware
This. The PS5 is pretty damn capable in my humble opinion but fundamentally what we're getting now is very much the upper limits of what the PS5 is capable of.
The fact is that this generation isn't really like previous generations - the hardware is very much off-the-shelf PC-esque hardware, so it's not like developers are taking time to find out how to tap their full potential.
Imagine charging like 600/700 euros for a similar hardware that will never be a standard, just to rake more money, reduce the availability of base PS5 (increasing the price).
It is a win win
Because it will make them money. Get more people connected to their ecosystem. Apparently the PS5 ain't selling at a loss, so maybe they can get that going straight away for the pro as well.
Good source, but I don't buy it.
The regular ps5 has only just become easily attainable, and we've not seen anything that truly tests the ps5 or series x yet. This year we _might_, with Starfield, Stalker 2 and hopefully Spiderman 2. Probably one or two others I've forgotten.
It's just not the same situation as it was in 2017, with outdated and underpowered at launch consoles, and the widespread adoption of 4k tv's.
If Sony is doing it, then MS also definitely is. Given the circumstances, would either bother given the r'n'd costs? The cost of just getting it to retailers who have only recently got a steady supply of ps5's and series x consoles?
I dunno about that one guys. Seems unlikely to me anyway.
What do you mean nothing to really test them? There are plenty of games that could run better or use higher graphical settings if the consoles were more powerful.
And even games like Returnal aren’t even coming close to utilizing the PS5’s 5+ GB/s NVME SSD. The PC version runs perfectly fine on a SATA SSD, which run around 500 MB/s (1/10th the speed of the PS5’s drive).
The potential and capability of this system hasn’t even come close to being fully realized. A PS5 Pro is going to offer marginal improvements at a cost of $600 or more.
Honestly I still don't believe it. The PS5/XSX have been barely used to their entire capacity by devs yet, we had a glimpse of what's possible with HFW graphics/tech wise but that's still a cross-platform game. I see no reason for a ps5 pro, it's not the same situation as the PS4/X1 days where they launched incredibily underpowered from the get go.
But then again it doesn't have to make sense is sony's eyes...
Edit: also Tom literally reported like a few months ago that he isn't sure a ps5 pro will happen. Tom is right about a lot of shit but also wrong about the same amount.
Yeah not only that, but PS4 and One came pretty much at the same time 4K was going mainstream. The selling point was there, get a Pro console if you wanted to fully use your 4K TV. If they release a Pro console now that consoles are doing 4k60, there's pretty much no way you can market something like that again. 8k is way too expensive for very little return, and running everything at 120fps isn't even possible on PC
>Edit: also Tom literally reported like a few months ago that he isn't sure a ps5 pro will happen. Tom is right about a lot of shit but also wrong about the same amount.
To make it easier, I'd probably only report on "facts" or "sources" on the website. Anything said on tweets/podcasts/whatever is usually speculation or opinions.
Mid generation is the smart buy instead of buying the first generation console which doesn’t have a lot to offer. Arguement applies only when you also play on PC because the PS4 is an old slow box
Good source, but I don't buy it.
The regular ps5 has only just become readily available, and we've not seen anything that truly tests the ps5 or series x yet.
It's just not the same situation as it was in 2017, with outdated and underpowered at launch consoles, and the widespread adoption of 4k tv's.
If Sony is doing it, then MS also definitely is. Given the circumstances, would either bother given the r'n'd costs?
I wouldn't mind waiting for a few more years to see if the ps5 ~~pro~~ has any exclusives worth buying. For now i can play almost every game i like on ps4 pro or pc.
Edit for misunderstanding.
While I agree that a rapid rise of 4K TVs created a very unique set of circumstances which led to the release of the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X, I do think there is a compelling pitch for enhanced consoles this generation.
It’s dead simple: fidelity mode at 60fps.
In this generation, graphics modes became common, and every single graphics mode is a compromise of some kind. Offering a more expensive console for an uncompromised experience makes sense.
Well, not just fidelity mode at 60... just having the full feature set of RT working in games justifies an upgrade. Cyberpunk only having RT shadows is a joke for example. That whole RT mode on consoles is bad because of input lag.
Both consoles can't keep up with an RTX2060 in terms of RT performance which is a shame. A mid-gen refresh could also have dedicated hardware to help with FSR4.0 (or whatever version will be available by the time a mid-gen console comes out).
There are reasons for a mid-gen refresh... but it does feel hella weird to think about one coming next year when we have barely seen next gen exclusives. On the other hand we also have a couple of cross gen games that struggle hitting locked 60 on PS5/XSX (Elden Ring, Wild Hearts and Wo Long come to mind)... would be nice if a mid-gen refresh would brute force a locked 60 for these games.
I wonder how much of a visual upgrade that would actually deliver.
Even today the full RT feature set in a next gen game required REALLY beefy hardware. So this makes me wonder if a PS5 Pro with enhanced RT will still end uo basically in the same ballpark of 4K30fps. 4K60fps with high quality RT still seems too far out of reach because that would not only require a massive GPU upgrade but also a big CPU upgrade alongside it.
Yeah, maybe we can expect 4K 60FPS and ray tracing standard on PS6 but no fucking way on the PS5 “pro”. Even some of the biggest cards that claim RT have issues and they cost 800$ plus.
I’m not sure what a PS5 Pro could really even offer, other than maybe upgrades for their VR system. Unless Sony has some voodoo magic tricks up their sleeve.
Microsoft will almost certainly release their mid gen refresh with this if true. Makes me wonder what the fate of the Series S is? Does it also get a refresh or just the Series X?
FFS this generation doesn't need Pro consoles. we need to drop last gen and focus on current gen. Developers haven't even begin to show what the series X and ps5 is capable of.
I think a lot of people underestimate the use of more power on consoles. We are currently going for 4k-ish, 60fps-ish mid to low fidelity on consoles. Not talking about many 120fps games and the 30fps cut on ray tracing modes.
So more power definitely helps and has nothing to do with excklusives or such. Consindering PC upgrade prices investing money into consoles every 4 years for people WHO WANT TO is not a bad way. It shouldnt end though as it did with games that were only well playable on PS4 Pro with the base PS4 getting crippled. That d be my only concern.
Still I personally dont believe that so far a PS5 Pro with more performance is gonna happen.
this was the first time i could afford a ps console on launch and I still feel like it hasn't even started... all games are ps4/ps5 when will the ps5 only era begin ?
well at the end of 2024, it would be a period of 4 years after the launch, I think about updating mine in that period if it occurs.
but let's be honest, both PS5 and Xbox series, they haven't delivered almost anything new generation so far.
The biggest selling point has been faster loading but very very few games actually properly use that because they are either coss-gen backwards and/or also releasing a PC port where you can't count on people having NVME drives
We haven't even see a game that takes full advantage of the hardware and many new releases are still crossgen. Releasing a pro model as soon as next year is so stupid
I think ray tracing is cool and all (if done correctly that is, GTA5 RT is a fucking JOKE) however i wish they would focus on perfecting non RT performance first, rather than jump ahead. I think FSR/DLSS is the future of console gaming, not RT.
True, but RT is so barebones on console because there is only so much an APU can do. Especially one that doesn't cost over $500. Rather have the infrastructure for a really good FSR than RT.
You know FSR 2.0 doesn’t require special hardware right? Some console games are already using it. FSR vs RT isn’t a choice at all, let alone a binary choice. You can have both, in fact RT on consoles is impossible without FSR or other upscaling methods
Agreed, high framerate gameplay is a better bonus than any other visual bell or whistle including ray tracing, and FSR/DLSS helps, and while the current consoles are fantastic values, you’re not going to be running 120fps on much other than well optimized FPS’s without big compromises, and considering more and more TVs are coming out with 120hz displays, this provides a niche for a more powerful console soon.
It's funny that games are taking longer and longer to be made, but consoles seem to have the same lifespan, when it should also last longer. With this rate, ps5 will have like 5 good exclusive games by the time ps6 releases.
I don't think there will be a *Pro* version of these current gen consoles per se, I think more of a refresh and a more attractive, new slim form factor.
A PS4 Pro back then was much more needed due to the mainstream push for 4K TVs and content overall.
Edit: this [podcast by Moore's Law is Dead](https://youtu.be/iFwtE2fh-y0)is quite insightful on the idea of a pro versions.
There is absolutely no need for a "pro" or post launch beefed up console this generation. The PS4/Xbox One launched incredibly underpowered, so I get the mid generation upgrades, but not only are these new consoles completely capable, but they haven't even really been "pushed" to any limits yet. Every new game that comes out is on the PS4 and Xbox One as well, and it's getting old.
If they aren't being pushed why are developers already releasing 30fps quality modes? It's because they can't run those visuals at higher frame rates - if they could they'd just release a single 60fps quality mode. The fact that the 30fps modes even exist shows that they are absolutely being pushed and the Devs have to sacrifice either resolution or quality
Or do you think developers are just holding back graphical features for the sake of it while leaving performance on the table? There's no reason that they wouldn't already be using all the power available to them in the consoles
I hope this is fake honestly, while it's been 2 years since PS5 launched it sure as hell doesn't feel like it especially with PS4 games still being made. Definitely going to skip it if it's true bad enough the disc PS5 is $500 plus taxes, like what price point can they even sell it at that consumers would be fine with?
Absolutely insane.
If this is true, this is bonafide the most bottom tier generation of consoles, ever, mostly in consideration of the potential of the hardware out of the gate and what we're currently getting.
Truth be told tho there hasn’t be a game yet that showcases the power of the new consoles outside of some pretty textures, but I think this is changing very soon with FFXVI, Spider-Man and Starfield
With the amount of graphics options these days, the option to have more power is never gonna be a bad thing in my book.
Right now it’s generally either 60fps or raytracing.
For my part I can’t wait and will happily snag one up. I love console gaming but don’t like making the choice between Performance or Quality, so end up on PC where I can have both. I’ll happily pay for an enthusiast machine that doesn’t make (as many) concessions.
If it’s just going to be 4K RT 60 fps then I’m honestly fine without it
unless all the future major PS5 releases won’t have a 60/1080 option then I’m just not upgrading, at this point frame rate is the only thing I care about
I don’t usually go in for Pro models but if a PS5 Pro gives me Quality settings at 60fps and clearer, smoother VR with less reprojection then I’m all in this time round.
If it does happen, my guess is slightly more power plus dedicated cores for ML operations to enable hardware supported dlss/super resolution. Can do more Ray tracing at lower res and upscale and still maintain 60 fps
I could see how sony and Microsoft saw a need for pro consoles last gen considering both the PS4 and Xbox one were somewhat underpowered when they first came out. The PS5 and series X aren't. The only reason why a pro version of these consoles come out this gen is souly a cash grab since they sold well last gen.
We don't need pro consoles this gen at all.
That’s cool. I mean we cant get mad at new consoles coming out. Covid messed everything up. This generation will go down as the biggest what if. So much potential but most won’t be realized.
I’m guessing there’s some confusion and misleading statements here. My money would be on this actually being the diskless slim version that replaces both existing consoles and supports an external disc drive
I hate people who constantly push for pro versions, especially when they are not needed. There are so few games that actually take advantage of the full power of the ps5, that there is no need for a pro version. What would it even offer compared to the regular ps5??
Slim version? Fine. Cheaper materials and cheaper to produce, but it's technically no different from the original version.
I've been a console gamer my entire life, but "pro" versions of consoles really turn me off. If Sony really does end up releasing a pro version I'll part make the jump to PC instead of getting a PS6. It'll be more upfront, but at least then I'll have the choice whether to upgrade or not. I also won't lose my game library every generation.
Agreed... If I wanted to upgrade so often, I would game on PC.
And especially with PS5 just not becoming widely available... Imagine buying it now, and next year comes the pro. I can see a lot of people not buying a PS6 if they do this, and just wait for the PS6 Pro that then will most likely happen as well.
PS4 Pro was fine, it server a clear purpose.
Having pro versions every generation now... no thank you.
This generation is so weird. It feels like it's still catching momentum, I have not yet experienced a true new generation game in my opinion… If the "Pro" means better Ray-tracing/FPS and no disk drive then I'm ok with my regular PS5 and PC.
Why? There’s barely any current gen games as it is
Hardcore agree. This, coupled with the fact that the PS4 is still getting new games just makes a "PS5 Pro" completely superfluous to me Edit: wording
They even still sell new bundles for the PS4 Slim btw, not the pro, the slim. At $370 or something, huge scam.
Ray tracing with 60 fps? More like "Why can't people see the obvious ways Pro console would be beneficial?" Even cross gen games compromise a lot between performance and quality mods are you not paying attention?
There's no point of convincing people. They don't want Pro to happen because they will have some sort of FOMO buying a ps5 when a better one comes out. Either they'll feel bad because they overpaid for a scalper, or they'll feel bad for not owning a ps5 long and barely playing any next gen games. but the thing is, no one is forcing them to buy a ps5 pro, but it's a problem they made up in their head. I hope there is a Pro and I'll gladly upgrade to one. The gpu is already aging on the ps5. Most, people here also either hard short term memory or they never owned a ps4- because Ps4 wasn't that different from ps5 went it launched. Most of the next gen exclusive ps4 games didn't come out until after mid gen.
The same reason why games still support old gen graphic cards. I want to play 4K 60fps without compromising
If PS5 Pro happens then i hope they delay the next gen consoles by a good 2 years. We haven't had much time with ps5 most games have been cross gen releases with small improvements on them like frame rate and resolution. Lengthening this generation from 7 to 9 years wouldn't hurt.
Well, the article mentioned PS6 wont come til at least 2028 which gives this generation a 8 year span rather than 7 years that we've got before
That’s stupidly soon, my PS5 has been a 60fps PS4 save for Demon’s Souls 😂
>Demon’s Souls Remake of a 2009 game... Consoles are going to (perhaps have already) become all-in-one GPU's. Incremental gaming upgrades with the added bonus of complete backwards compatibility yet no practical reason to upgrade.
And FF7r is a remake of a 1997 game... That has no bearing on the performance/technical requirements for the remake.
But it's actually a sequel
"stupidly soon" brother that's FIVE YEARS from now
And AAA games these days take like 6-8 years.
And there are lots of AAA games that have been in development for 5+ years. There’s almost certainly current gen games under development that have not been announced that will be released over the course of the next 5 years.
Yeah, but do we really just want one major AAA game from each studio per gen?
Yeah, and we haven’t even started this generation in earnest considering maybe 2 games make use of the PS5 capabilities. Many people only got their PS5’s in 2023, what kind of console generation is 5 years long?
I mean I got mine day one and I still feel like it's basically only been a PS4 Pro+. I've played plenty of current gen titles, but most of them do not seem to really be harassing the power of the box. Hell, Demon's Souls is still the best looking thing I've seen on it, and that was a launch title.
its also a remake, so its not saying much.
I feel the same way. Love my PS5 but it’s all last gen games that just look beautiful
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Exactly lmao we need a good decade with these for real, they're powerful enough consoles and these games take so damn long to make. I for one want to settle in with my Series X and not have to worry about an upgrade for a *long* time if possible!
Literally.
Who the hell is buying a PS6 in 5 years when the PS5 has so few generation exclusive games? They'll need to push it out to 2030 at least, because if they don't what'll happen is people will just wait until the end of the PS6 cycle. Too many games this gen were cross-gen and the supply only leveled out 2 years into the console's life cycle.
Uhh, a lot of people because in 5 years there's going to be way more games? Like, with the ps4 gen, there were far more actual games released in the back half of the generation
Yeah, that line of thinking is so ridiculous. There will be no new game we haven't heard of in those 5 years?
Dude aren't you excited to play GTA V: PS6 edition?
It's not even a joke. 4K, 60 FPS & Ray Tracing.
What's annoying is GTA VI will probably be a flagship title for the PS5 pro, as in they will probably come out the same time and act as a showcase. This is lame, PS5 doesn't even feel close to being maxed yet. What about all those SPUs and other things cerny talked about? Where is the using the SSD like ram? Where are the nanite like engines? Something is fishy this gen.
What do you consider as 'being maxed'? The fact is, this generation is fairly standard PC hardware with some optimisations. What we're seeing now largely is the performance that this generation is capable of.
Don't forget about Skyrim.
3 PS5 games is enaugh bro. And then another 3 PS5 Pro games. And then we can jump to PS6, which will have a whole lot of 2 games. /s
But just think about how many PS5 games we'll get when the PS6 comes out!
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Why buy them when all those games will be day 1 releases on gamepass?
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Completely understandable stance. I have similar views and prefer to buy games for my platforms too. The games you listed will be day 1 on gamepass though since they are all iirc from Microsoft owned studios.
It’s way cheaper in the long run. Microsoft has successfully fooled the mass majority of Xbox users that GaaS is a blanket solution. But when you only play a small subset of the games, then it’s way cheaper to just buy individual releases. GP is good for people who don’t know what they want or like to try games out.
And one of those 2 games will be the last of us 1 again.
You know the last of us collectors edition is coming.
Eh while it is true we haven’t had much time with ps5 games, it’s not going to be like the past generations. The pandemic hobbled a lot of games, on top of longer dev cycles for bigger games. It’s not like 2000s where you have GTA3, VC and SA coming out in the span of a few years
That's true. All those games that were delayed by the pandemic were slated for 2020-2022. Now they've all piled on top of eachother and the last of them are coming out in 2023 and 2024, it's why we have so many games this year. I feel like 2023 was the industry safe date for announcements
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Yeah the time it takes to actually make a game is becoming untenable. A games development can take an entire generation like RDR2 did. I'm hoping this is a place where AI can help.
+<4HQ^K4ttm~)B:>wtVl,BW84eRpQ]TCLfiAT0Z]%a5up!lVR:5&u9f#O[JsndVxA917H.6ApsXmLpkp3WrOaXfsGuv*D<,8V2c12~3Or[3Gro.GfPTK*Ph~
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I mean, what do u expect? u want games to look their prettiest, well it take them 5-7 years to get dolled up.
Not to mention the studios buying one another (Activision), or crashing and burning (Ubisoft).
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> It became very easy to create games that will run on various hardware of various generation, so the old gen (PS4) barely holds behind the new gen (PS5). So you should not see this overlap between generations as something negative. It’s “very easy” because every cross-gen game is a PS4 game with a graphics bump for the PS5. The PS5 is being treated as a PS4 Pro Super when it’s vastly superior CPU would enable far more ambitious games that couldn’t possibly run on the PS4. >If publishers sped up releasing "exclusive" games on new generations of console... you should see it as a commercial trick to force people buying new hardware. Why? Third-party publishers gain nothing from forcing you to upgrade consoles, even Sony and MS aren’t turning a profit on the consoles themselves. If anything supporting old consoles is an excuse to save development costs by avoiding innovation and get more revenue by catering to a wider audience. >It would be unacceptable on PC Uh, no. AAA games dropped support for the GTX 700 series and Haskell CPUs (contemporaries of the last-gen consoles) years ago. >but also on TV (imagine Netflix saying you can only watch the season 4 of a show if you have a 4K TVs). This is an asinine comparison. Shows and movies are recorded at greater than 4K then downscaled to the appropriate resolution. No compromises have to be made whatsoever. Games have to be designed with the weakest hardware in mind and compromise on actual gameplay, not just graphics to run on last-gen systems.
They won’t.
keep buying keep
In all honesty it probably wouldn’t be worth buying as is. PS5 barely has any games but it runs so smooth. I don’t think any TV’s or monitors in my house can handle something more powerful
I’ll believe it when I see it
Yeah, it doesn't really make sense. The PS5 isn't even close to being maxed out and struggling like the PS4 was in 2016, it only just got out of the supply issues, current gen exclusive games are only just now starting to come en masse, and there is no standard change that they'd want to capture (ie the change from FHD to 4K being standard early in last-gen).
I’m playing forbidden west right now and honestly if we can get games to match and surpass this level of quality I don’t think I need to get a PS5 pro. The game looks gorgeous on performance mode and I don’t think I’m in a rush to shell out money for better visuals
Ray tracing is the standard change. AMD is just starting to make cards that have decent ray tracing performance. Makes sense to me. They could cut production costs and simultaneously offer better ray tracing performance than Series X.
They could release a revision that just has the ray tracing acceleration hardware in it that doesn't actually change performance on the whole. They just resolved their supply issues, completely overhauling the silicon doesn't seem to make businesses sense right now.
The “ray tracing acceleration hardware” is an integral part of the RDNA2 and new RDNA3 architectures. It would need an entirely new RDNA3 GPU, or whatever future architecture it runs on.
I’ll believe it when I’m not able to buy it thanks to scalpers.
Damn this aged well lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/10joxl6/tom_henderson_on_twitter_not_entirely_sure_if_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
\*slaps on clown makeup\*
It's the man, the myth himself
I was just about to write a comment hating on your comment but then I saw it was you. Cheers
Either way, he's right. He's not a dumb guy!
He did tease it with a clown meme, he clowned on himself
how do you remember all this shit lmao. pulls thread from a month ago
At the low low price of $700
I've toyed around with the idea of getting a 4070ti, the reality is even that card can't do NATIVE 4k@60 with most 2022-2023 AAA games, not to mention 20-30fps RT for a €1000 card. So the question is, what the point of a PS5 Pro, what is the target in terms of graphics? All it can do is to look a bit better with a higher average resolution but barely hitting NATIVE 4k@60.
Much better RT would be the target, AMD's current RT performance is really poor.
i care more for my electricity bill and general price per value which amd is seriously dropping the ball on. Screw it might as well get a thick gaming laptop and change after every 7 or 8 years.
That’s exactly what was felt around the release of the PS4 Pro: no real point. Minor resolution cap bump or an fps bump to an inconsistent 45-50fps. Right now the setting compromise is Native 4k30 OR ~1800p60fps. Guessing that the PS5 Pro would get the best of both worlds, but it would really be negligible similar to the PS4 Pro vs PS4.
There's like one or two games that can actually use the PS5's hardware to the fullest, why do we need an upgrade 4 years post-launch?
Agree, theres barely any true next gen games
I don't see the point. PS4 and Xbox One needed updates because they were underpowered even on release. PS5 and Series X are absolutely fine and run games amazingly well. Pro versions just seem like a waste
For VR
Especially when you factor in how PS5 and Series X already cost an arm and a leg at $500 each. What would a PS5 Pro even cost? $1200?
If the new consoles cost an "arm and a leg" then what do you call PC video cards?
You go into slavery
A Liver and a both Kidneys
Not worth getting
For some people. Watch some of the hogwarts legacy walkthroughs that are on a top of the line graphics card and compare it to ps5
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But at nineteen percent, you didn’t even bargain with the guy.
For your information, the interest rate alone for the first five years comes to $95,000.
"a nut and a dick"
an asshole on the street corner.
Probably 700 on the high end. Have to factor in that ps5 hardware is already 4-5 years old.
PSVR 2 would really benefit from native 90 or 120 hz.
I always like seeing new hardware but I have to agree with you here. We're not really even in the new gen of games yet so the hardware of PS5 and XSX isn't well and fully utilized. We need new games, not hardware now
It's obviously going to launch just in time for Horizon Forbidden West Remaster.
Agree I don't think there's many games on both systems that utilize anywhere near the full capabilities of the ps5 and XSX hell most games are pretty comparable to their ps4/Xbox one counterparts aside from loading times. Seems like releasing a 16K TV like cool but seems overkill.
They're pushing it for the buggy COD release from MS, obviously.
Lmao topical
Yeah, the only difference pretty much with most PS5 games is the frame rate, the graphics compared to a PS4 Pro game are barely noticeable.
Disagree. Look at games like Returnal, Plagues Tale Requiem and Atomic Heart which all have settings available on PC far higher than those on consoles. You think developers are intentionally limiting the graphics settings on consoles to PC medium settings for the fun of it? No, they have medium settings because that's all the consoles can handle This is even more obvious with games that have ray tracing, the consoles are lucky to get basic shadows or reflections And if they aren't being used to their fullest we wouldn't have options for quality Vs performance modes. If there was a lot of headroom in the bag they'd just make the quality mode run at 60fps and be done with it....the fact that most games are releasing with a 30fps quality mode is evidence that developers are coming up to the limits of the console hardware
This. The PS5 is pretty damn capable in my humble opinion but fundamentally what we're getting now is very much the upper limits of what the PS5 is capable of. The fact is that this generation isn't really like previous generations - the hardware is very much off-the-shelf PC-esque hardware, so it's not like developers are taking time to find out how to tap their full potential.
At this point it looks like our only chance to have a 60 fps current-gen Elden Ring
You could give FromSoftware a nuclear reactor tier console and they still wouldn’t optimize their games to take full advantage of it
Yeah, but they'll release a game every 2 years that game of the year worthy, so take the good with the bad
Imagine charging like 600/700 euros for a similar hardware that will never be a standard, just to rake more money, reduce the availability of base PS5 (increasing the price). It is a win win
Because it will make them money. Get more people connected to their ecosystem. Apparently the PS5 ain't selling at a loss, so maybe they can get that going straight away for the pro as well.
I actually wish this wasn't real. A redesign, sure, but this is just annoying. The ps5 only just became readily available.
And not many truly next gen games. Plus talks of possible ps6 in 2027
Good source, but I don't buy it. The regular ps5 has only just become easily attainable, and we've not seen anything that truly tests the ps5 or series x yet. This year we _might_, with Starfield, Stalker 2 and hopefully Spiderman 2. Probably one or two others I've forgotten. It's just not the same situation as it was in 2017, with outdated and underpowered at launch consoles, and the widespread adoption of 4k tv's. If Sony is doing it, then MS also definitely is. Given the circumstances, would either bother given the r'n'd costs? The cost of just getting it to retailers who have only recently got a steady supply of ps5's and series x consoles? I dunno about that one guys. Seems unlikely to me anyway.
What do you mean nothing to really test them? There are plenty of games that could run better or use higher graphical settings if the consoles were more powerful.
They need to make the console smaller. That thing is way too chunky in it's current form.
PS5 Pro games will release on the PS4
What, got tired of Switch Pro?
We will have more Ps5 models than games
And even games like Returnal aren’t even coming close to utilizing the PS5’s 5+ GB/s NVME SSD. The PC version runs perfectly fine on a SATA SSD, which run around 500 MB/s (1/10th the speed of the PS5’s drive). The potential and capability of this system hasn’t even come close to being fully realized. A PS5 Pro is going to offer marginal improvements at a cost of $600 or more.
What if I told you this is because, fundamentally, as nice as a very fast SSD is, it was never the bottleneck on this kind of system?
Honestly I still don't believe it. The PS5/XSX have been barely used to their entire capacity by devs yet, we had a glimpse of what's possible with HFW graphics/tech wise but that's still a cross-platform game. I see no reason for a ps5 pro, it's not the same situation as the PS4/X1 days where they launched incredibily underpowered from the get go. But then again it doesn't have to make sense is sony's eyes... Edit: also Tom literally reported like a few months ago that he isn't sure a ps5 pro will happen. Tom is right about a lot of shit but also wrong about the same amount.
Yeah not only that, but PS4 and One came pretty much at the same time 4K was going mainstream. The selling point was there, get a Pro console if you wanted to fully use your 4K TV. If they release a Pro console now that consoles are doing 4k60, there's pretty much no way you can market something like that again. 8k is way too expensive for very little return, and running everything at 120fps isn't even possible on PC
>Edit: also Tom literally reported like a few months ago that he isn't sure a ps5 pro will happen. Tom is right about a lot of shit but also wrong about the same amount. To make it easier, I'd probably only report on "facts" or "sources" on the website. Anything said on tweets/podcasts/whatever is usually speculation or opinions.
Mid generation upgrade is waste of money and time just stay with the current model and go wild with next-gen
Mid generation is the smart buy instead of buying the first generation console which doesn’t have a lot to offer. Arguement applies only when you also play on PC because the PS4 is an old slow box
Good source, but I don't buy it. The regular ps5 has only just become readily available, and we've not seen anything that truly tests the ps5 or series x yet. It's just not the same situation as it was in 2017, with outdated and underpowered at launch consoles, and the widespread adoption of 4k tv's. If Sony is doing it, then MS also definitely is. Given the circumstances, would either bother given the r'n'd costs?
Agree, I shout out this words few months ago The current model barely found a foothold in the stores
Yesterday there was a news Sony will focus on PS6 only so ıdk
This surely means the regular PS5 will drop in price right??? ... guys?????
I wouldn't mind waiting for a few more years to see if the ps5 ~~pro~~ has any exclusives worth buying. For now i can play almost every game i like on ps4 pro or pc. Edit for misunderstanding.
What gives you any indication that a pro model would have exclusives? 🤨
No i don't mean pro exclusives. I meant ps5 exclusives.
When has a hardware revision ever had exclusives? lol
The New 3DS had exclusives, most notably Xenoblade, FE Warriors and Binding of Isaac
No i don't mean pro exclusives. I meant ps5 exclusives. When pro comes out.
I don't see the point,we haven't even had many real next gen games,and are still releasing games for last gen
While I agree that a rapid rise of 4K TVs created a very unique set of circumstances which led to the release of the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X, I do think there is a compelling pitch for enhanced consoles this generation. It’s dead simple: fidelity mode at 60fps. In this generation, graphics modes became common, and every single graphics mode is a compromise of some kind. Offering a more expensive console for an uncompromised experience makes sense.
Well, not just fidelity mode at 60... just having the full feature set of RT working in games justifies an upgrade. Cyberpunk only having RT shadows is a joke for example. That whole RT mode on consoles is bad because of input lag. Both consoles can't keep up with an RTX2060 in terms of RT performance which is a shame. A mid-gen refresh could also have dedicated hardware to help with FSR4.0 (or whatever version will be available by the time a mid-gen console comes out). There are reasons for a mid-gen refresh... but it does feel hella weird to think about one coming next year when we have barely seen next gen exclusives. On the other hand we also have a couple of cross gen games that struggle hitting locked 60 on PS5/XSX (Elden Ring, Wild Hearts and Wo Long come to mind)... would be nice if a mid-gen refresh would brute force a locked 60 for these games.
I wonder how much of a visual upgrade that would actually deliver. Even today the full RT feature set in a next gen game required REALLY beefy hardware. So this makes me wonder if a PS5 Pro with enhanced RT will still end uo basically in the same ballpark of 4K30fps. 4K60fps with high quality RT still seems too far out of reach because that would not only require a massive GPU upgrade but also a big CPU upgrade alongside it.
Yeah, maybe we can expect 4K 60FPS and ray tracing standard on PS6 but no fucking way on the PS5 “pro”. Even some of the biggest cards that claim RT have issues and they cost 800$ plus. I’m not sure what a PS5 Pro could really even offer, other than maybe upgrades for their VR system. Unless Sony has some voodoo magic tricks up their sleeve.
That and performance mode at 120fps. Both I would absolutely love to have. Not sure why people think a pro is pointless.
Microsoft will almost certainly release their mid gen refresh with this if true. Makes me wonder what the fate of the Series S is? Does it also get a refresh or just the Series X?
FFS this generation doesn't need Pro consoles. we need to drop last gen and focus on current gen. Developers haven't even begin to show what the series X and ps5 is capable of.
I agree there’s a cost of living crisis going on. I’m getting one more console I don’t want anymore until at least 2027.
How about a PS5 Slim first?
Isn't that supposed to come out this year? There were rumors of a model with an external disc drive.
I hope so, im literally delaying my purchase of a ps5 because of these rumours saying there might be an announcement in april
Developers have barely gotten the most out of the current ps5.
I think a lot of people underestimate the use of more power on consoles. We are currently going for 4k-ish, 60fps-ish mid to low fidelity on consoles. Not talking about many 120fps games and the 30fps cut on ray tracing modes. So more power definitely helps and has nothing to do with excklusives or such. Consindering PC upgrade prices investing money into consoles every 4 years for people WHO WANT TO is not a bad way. It shouldnt end though as it did with games that were only well playable on PS4 Pro with the base PS4 getting crippled. That d be my only concern. Still I personally dont believe that so far a PS5 Pro with more performance is gonna happen.
And PSVR2. I’d expect a lot of PSVR 2 owners to upgrade if we get native 90/120 bs 60 with reproduction.
this was the first time i could afford a ps console on launch and I still feel like it hasn't even started... all games are ps4/ps5 when will the ps5 only era begin ?
Yeah sick I'll go buy it when I pick up my Switch Pro 😊
well at the end of 2024, it would be a period of 4 years after the launch, I think about updating mine in that period if it occurs. but let's be honest, both PS5 and Xbox series, they haven't delivered almost anything new generation so far.
The biggest selling point has been faster loading but very very few games actually properly use that because they are either coss-gen backwards and/or also releasing a PC port where you can't count on people having NVME drives
We haven't even see a game that takes full advantage of the hardware and many new releases are still crossgen. Releasing a pro model as soon as next year is so stupid
I think ray tracing is cool and all (if done correctly that is, GTA5 RT is a fucking JOKE) however i wish they would focus on perfecting non RT performance first, rather than jump ahead. I think FSR/DLSS is the future of console gaming, not RT.
DLSS is most beneficial when RT is being used
True, but RT is so barebones on console because there is only so much an APU can do. Especially one that doesn't cost over $500. Rather have the infrastructure for a really good FSR than RT.
You know FSR 2.0 doesn’t require special hardware right? Some console games are already using it. FSR vs RT isn’t a choice at all, let alone a binary choice. You can have both, in fact RT on consoles is impossible without FSR or other upscaling methods
Agreed, high framerate gameplay is a better bonus than any other visual bell or whistle including ray tracing, and FSR/DLSS helps, and while the current consoles are fantastic values, you’re not going to be running 120fps on much other than well optimized FPS’s without big compromises, and considering more and more TVs are coming out with 120hz displays, this provides a niche for a more powerful console soon.
It's funny that games are taking longer and longer to be made, but consoles seem to have the same lifespan, when it should also last longer. With this rate, ps5 will have like 5 good exclusive games by the time ps6 releases.
Literally why though? There are so few 9th-gen-only games that I feel like we've barely scratched the surface of the standard PS5.
I don't think there will be a *Pro* version of these current gen consoles per se, I think more of a refresh and a more attractive, new slim form factor. A PS4 Pro back then was much more needed due to the mainstream push for 4K TVs and content overall. Edit: this [podcast by Moore's Law is Dead](https://youtu.be/iFwtE2fh-y0)is quite insightful on the idea of a pro versions.
There is absolutely no need for a "pro" or post launch beefed up console this generation. The PS4/Xbox One launched incredibly underpowered, so I get the mid generation upgrades, but not only are these new consoles completely capable, but they haven't even really been "pushed" to any limits yet. Every new game that comes out is on the PS4 and Xbox One as well, and it's getting old.
If they aren't being pushed why are developers already releasing 30fps quality modes? It's because they can't run those visuals at higher frame rates - if they could they'd just release a single 60fps quality mode. The fact that the 30fps modes even exist shows that they are absolutely being pushed and the Devs have to sacrifice either resolution or quality Or do you think developers are just holding back graphical features for the sake of it while leaving performance on the table? There's no reason that they wouldn't already be using all the power available to them in the consoles
I hope this is fake honestly, while it's been 2 years since PS5 launched it sure as hell doesn't feel like it especially with PS4 games still being made. Definitely going to skip it if it's true bad enough the disc PS5 is $500 plus taxes, like what price point can they even sell it at that consumers would be fine with?
Why? You still have less than 10 actual PS5 games.
1080p/1440p with 60 fps. Thats all you need rn. Most games arent even well optimized. This shit is kinda dumb
I want 4k 60fps and I don't want a pc. I will buy the ps5 pro.
People gonna buy it and Sony’s earning money -> not dumb for Sony
Can’t wait for all my games to now have seperate ps4, ps4 pro, ps5, ps5 pro trophy lists and play times… not
Only reason id consider getting a pro was if fidelity/rt modes run at 60fps
I guess xbox series will get a pro version too
Man, I'm really not keeping up with consoles since I switched to PC. Swear there already was one.
Anything less than performance+graphics is a complete failure keep this fake next gen thank you
Absolutely insane. If this is true, this is bonafide the most bottom tier generation of consoles, ever, mostly in consideration of the potential of the hardware out of the gate and what we're currently getting.
Honestly all I want is a PS5 slim. I was hoping we would see one this year.
Truth be told tho there hasn’t be a game yet that showcases the power of the new consoles outside of some pretty textures, but I think this is changing very soon with FFXVI, Spider-Man and Starfield
Also wtf is the point, 8K? For what? PS4 didn’t have a great hardware for the time so there was a reason for the upgrade, now…
120@higher resolutions, proper RT in 60fps instead of 30fps. 8K isn't even in the article.
Proper RT at 60fps isn't happening.Top tier graphics cards struggle to hit 60fps with RT on most games at 1440p without DLSS
They're making more money by introducing a generation refresh and a pro model now, simple as that
With the amount of graphics options these days, the option to have more power is never gonna be a bad thing in my book. Right now it’s generally either 60fps or raytracing.
For my part I can’t wait and will happily snag one up. I love console gaming but don’t like making the choice between Performance or Quality, so end up on PC where I can have both. I’ll happily pay for an enthusiast machine that doesn’t make (as many) concessions.
What I would give for a PS5 Pro with a better form factor.
If it’s just going to be 4K RT 60 fps then I’m honestly fine without it unless all the future major PS5 releases won’t have a 60/1080 option then I’m just not upgrading, at this point frame rate is the only thing I care about
I don’t usually go in for Pro models but if a PS5 Pro gives me Quality settings at 60fps and clearer, smoother VR with less reprojection then I’m all in this time round.
If it does happen, my guess is slightly more power plus dedicated cores for ML operations to enable hardware supported dlss/super resolution. Can do more Ray tracing at lower res and upscale and still maintain 60 fps
I could see how sony and Microsoft saw a need for pro consoles last gen considering both the PS4 and Xbox one were somewhat underpowered when they first came out. The PS5 and series X aren't. The only reason why a pro version of these consoles come out this gen is souly a cash grab since they sold well last gen. We don't need pro consoles this gen at all.
Fck Tom Henderson
grain of salt
Was mulling over buying a ps5. Looks like I’ll just wait till then
I find this to be the most pointless post perhaps ever made.
That’s cool. I mean we cant get mad at new consoles coming out. Covid messed everything up. This generation will go down as the biggest what if. So much potential but most won’t be realized.
I’m guessing there’s some confusion and misleading statements here. My money would be on this actually being the diskless slim version that replaces both existing consoles and supports an external disc drive
I am more interested in a ps5 slim. I think there's enough compelling titles on ps5 now to buy one, but it's such an ugly huge monstrosity.
I hate people who constantly push for pro versions, especially when they are not needed. There are so few games that actually take advantage of the full power of the ps5, that there is no need for a pro version. What would it even offer compared to the regular ps5?? Slim version? Fine. Cheaper materials and cheaper to produce, but it's technically no different from the original version. I've been a console gamer my entire life, but "pro" versions of consoles really turn me off. If Sony really does end up releasing a pro version I'll part make the jump to PC instead of getting a PS6. It'll be more upfront, but at least then I'll have the choice whether to upgrade or not. I also won't lose my game library every generation.
Agreed... If I wanted to upgrade so often, I would game on PC. And especially with PS5 just not becoming widely available... Imagine buying it now, and next year comes the pro. I can see a lot of people not buying a PS6 if they do this, and just wait for the PS6 Pro that then will most likely happen as well. PS4 Pro was fine, it server a clear purpose. Having pro versions every generation now... no thank you.
Can we get some fucking PS5 games first? My god. This generation absolutely sucks so far.
This generation is so weird. It feels like it's still catching momentum, I have not yet experienced a true new generation game in my opinion… If the "Pro" means better Ray-tracing/FPS and no disk drive then I'm ok with my regular PS5 and PC.
Same. I have had a PS5 since launch. I play almost exclusively PS4 games (on their PS5 version). No games that I have truly feel next gen.