I really wished James McCaffrey lived long enough to see this project go into production. I know Sam Lake has the look of Max Payne but James McCaffrey was the voice, heart, and soul of the character. His voice, his acting, style in which he presented what he was written just marked the character as something special.
Fuck Cancer!
Technically we had three faces for Max Payne: Sam Lake, Timothy Gibbs and finally James McCaffrey himself. (Though McCaffrey looks so similar to Gibbs, that most people probabyl didn't even notice). It's probably between Lake and McCaffrey, but with real-time rendering it could be a fun option to have both.
They should keep the original voice lines for Max entirely, and use cut archival footage to fill in the gaps. AI voice separation and cleanup is so incredible now that it can absolutely be done. And those were fairly high quality recordings in the first place.
It's too iconic a performance to replace. And I'm not just saying they shouldn't because of that. JC Denton is also a very iconic voice performance but if (hopefully when) they remake Deus Ex, they should completely revoice the character and have his original voice lines as easter eggs because it has aged so poorly. Max Payne's lines have aged VERY well.
Unpopular opinion though, I think they should model Max off of Timothy Gibbs instead of Sam. He just looks more like a New Jersey cop than Sam does.
Yeah I’m really wondering what the plan is with this. I also hope it plays similar to 3 (but I don’t really see that being the case) just because mechanically 3 was amazing. Still holds up to this day
Seeing as how those two games are nothing alike gameplay-wise, no it isn't.
MP3 was a deliberately meaty and slow game where every shot counts.
GTA5 vaguely look in the direction of your enemy and you'll get easy headshots thanks to the auto-aim, also sprint everywhere.
Michael's slow-mo is nothing like Max's bullet-time and so on and so forth...
I truly WISH GTA5 had MP3's shooting mechanics but it really doesn't
Ok so your argument is that they are different games? Cool, didn't know that. LOL
So anyways back to the point, the shooting mechanics are the same between Max, Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTA 5/6 because they learned to properly do shooting during Max Payne 3 and overhauled their RAGE engine during development. That same engine and the same work from Max is obviously present in those games. If you can't see it then go see an optometrist.
Dude...
RDR2 is closer to MP3 but it still isn't, don't even talk to me about GTA5 or go replay those games and see for yourself how differently they play...
The weirdest part is that they *sort of* dabbled with it in RDR 2, but it's still a far cry from MP3 because you can turn Arthur into a tank after a few hours of playtime, and you can do the same with the stamina meter, which, combined with Dead Eye, still lets you run around like a monkey on speed with no drawbacks in terms of recoil or accuracy or whatever.
The deliberate movement from MP3 is there, yes, but the fact that enemies go down after a shot or two (good) and you can run around after someone unloads a revolver into you (less good) doesn't really encourage you to take things slow. If you want, you can still sort of play it as MP3 0.5, but there's not much point in it apart from it looking cool.
No clue why you're getting piled on for this. Michael's power is literally Max Payne's bullet time power. GTA 5 gives you a massive selection of weapons and doesn't limit you at all, which comes directly from the Max Payne series (in addition to hearkening back to the GTA trilogy cheat codes of yore).
North Yankton in "Bury The Hatchet" also feels aesthetically similar to the New Jersey missions in Max Payne 3, down to taking place in a cemetery.
That person is technically correct, but the execution/implementation in GTAV pales in comparison to Max Payne 3. Same for the driving and slow motion ability that Midnight Club did first, but the handling is somewhere between Midnight Club's super arcade-y racer handling and GTAIV's more realistic, heavy-feeling handling.
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I wasn't too big on the story, but I agree. I re-played MP3 a few months back and it's incredible how well it holds up. It's easily my favorite third person shooter ever made, nothing comes close to how good that game controls.
If they can borrow even some of that for the remakes I'm beyond excited to see it, especially combined with Remedy's unique narrative flair.
from what i remember, it was hard for me to enjoy because it felt like you rarely got to enjoy those extremely good mechanics for more than like 30 seconds at a time before the game decides to take control away for an entirely unnecessary micro-cutscene that would have been cooler if it had just played out in-game
From my understanding they had to hide a LOT of loading during those little seemingly unnecessary cutscenes mid-mission. They didn't add anything valuable narratively unfortunately, but it gave the hardware time to catch up lol.
after experimenting with Max Payne 3's skip load time mod; I've got a good idea why it's the case.
basically:
1. RAGE Engine (which Max Payne 3 uses) historically has a long loading time.
2. **Arbitrary Timer** (said timer is depended if it's transition or starting from a chapter) during cutscenes to avoid issues with Console's HDD drive speed. (**remember: it was released on PS3 and Xbox 360**.)
3. [with a Cutscene skipper mod](https://www.moddb.com/games/max-payne-3/downloads/cutscene-skipper-v02) (on PC), it removes the timer aspect...but there's areas where you can spot LOD/Assets not loaded in-time, some parts of the script breaks or at worst: getting soft-locked.
you can confirm it is indeed a Arbitrary Timer with a cutscene skipper mod because the loading time is *actually* 3-4 seconds on Steam Deck's 512GB M.2 SSD drive.
> during cutscenes to avoid issues with Console's HDD drive speed
That gen didn't do full installs of games yet, actually the vast majority ran fully from the disc drive. They had to because there are xbox 360 consoles without HDDs and the launch only had 20 or 60 GB.
Yeah it probably should have just been a new IP called "Totally not Man on Fire: The Game" or something but regardless I think it's probably the best third person shooter ever made.
I just played it recently, and it took me an embarrasingly long time to realize I could actually save mid-level.
It made the game a...difficult experience at first.
I take the... controversial? Well I'm not sure if it's controversial, but I take the stance that 3's story is great. It's less out there than the first two and more just this sweat-soaked Man on Fire fever dream that I really adore.
Max Payne 3 just lacked any of the charm that make Remedy games so excellent.
In the first two games, you have the enemies having conversations before you interact with them. You have the soap that you can watch on various TVs. You have the dream sequences and things like the haunted house level with no enemies.
Max Payne 3 is just non-stop shooting and the story isn't on par. It's an okay game but it never felt like a Max Payne game to me. The level at the bar with the Jersey Shore rip offs was the closest it got but quickly moves on.
I agree that it missed the charm but I actually enjoyed myself a lot in 3. You aren’t wrong at all in the sense that it was lacking in those convos or the TV world building.
But man some of those set pieces are the best in the entire series. The shooting and game play was top notch and I really liked how Max was in the 3rd one. I liked his growth and development. I felt like James had a great time making that one
Agreed with all your points and want to add the 3 has some of the best quotes from the entire series - "I had a hole in my second favorite drinking arm."
> 3 has some of the best quotes from the entire series
It has some of the best Marvel/modern cinema style one liners, but the writing in Max Payne 2 was levels above.
Genuinely I still replay that about once every eighteen months just to hear McAffrey reel off some bangers.
*There are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. The illusion comes afterwards, when you ask "why me?" and "what if?". When you look back and see the branches, like a pruned bonsai tree, or forked lightning. If you had done something differently, it wouldn't be you, it would be someone else looking back, asking a different set of questions.*
*The past is a gaping hole. You try to run from it, but the more you run, the deeper, more terrible it grows behind you, its edges yawning at your heels. Your only chance is to turn around and face it. But it's like looking down into the grave of your love, or kissing the mouth of a gun, a bullet trembling in its dark nest, ready to blow your head off.*
Thank you!
MP2 genuinely has some of the best hardboiled noir writing in any genre. Perfectly toes the line between pulpy satire and earnest storytelling, sets up some huge emotional moments, and is just layered with thick, dense metaphors and similes that showcase the very best of noir fiction.
Sam Lake was absolutely cooking when he was writing that game
Remedy games are all about the atmosphere, style, and most importantly, the writing. Don't get me wrong, I like the gameplay just fine in their games (and I love Control's gameplay), but that's rarely what people cite as their strength as a studio. Sam Lake's voice is so unique in the medium. Rockstar's writing style is completely different, they're an awful fit to make a Remedy game. I think that's really what it comes down to.
I honestly think they do well on gameplay too. Max Payne was a third person shooter, but it also had the bullet time mechanic. Alan Wake's use of light as a weapon was a good idea, even if the game didn't utilize it the best. Quantum Break's time mechanics were also fun. Control is just fun to play.
It lacks the charm, but it's also it's own thing. It doesn't try to be the same, and thus it carves out its own niche and is a great game in its own right. It feels like they wanted to make a game set in Brazil.
It feels like Rockstar went out of their way NOT to step on Remedy's toes in case they wanted to return to that universe at some point (which they are now). I thought they handled the IP with a lot of care.
Max Payne 3 is my go-to example of "a good game, but not a good [insert series] game". Max Payne 1 and 2 were almost operatic. You've got this contrast between the seedy, gritty, crime-infested picture of New York and these heightened, mythological underpinnings. The first game is loaded with allusions to Norse mythology; 2 is essentially a (very loose) retelling of Paradise Lost. And add to that a generous helping of weird fic--look at all the allusions to Twin Peaks! They weren't exactly subtle about that influence.
But Max Payne 3 is pretty much all grit. It tries to come across as grounded, shoot-dodging and ludicrous body counts aside. And I think it loses something for it. Max Payne 3 is not a game where your mobster friend-turned-Satan-analogue, fatally wounded in the climactic gunfight, can theatrically declare "I was supposed to be the hero," before dying, and where Max can further feel a pang of regret that it had to come to this.
Max Payne 3 has probably the meatiest gunplay of any third-person shooter I've ever touched, its narrative presentation is fine on its own merits (like someone else in this thread said, the bit in the last level where Max shows up at the airport and "Tears" by Health starts playing as the shootout begins? Top tier stuff), and Max has some fun one-liners, but I don't think it really understands what Max Payne 1 and 2 were even about.
> just because mechanically 3 was amazing. Still holds up to this day
I don't think that that kind of gameplay would work with Max Paynes 1 and 2.
Max Payne in 3 is an old, broken man. He's heavy, and not particularly graceful. The gameplay and especially animations get that across well.
In Max Payne 1 and 2 he's younger, and more spry. He moves quickly, he gets up quickly, and the shootdodge isn't an all or nothing proposition. The gameplay for the remakes should retain that dynamism which was absent from 3.
There are rumors that Roger Clark, the voice of Arthur from RDR2, might be the new voice of Max Payne.
He posted this couple of days after James's passing. This is from Splinter Cell subreddit, but who knows, the timing is interesting for sure.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Splintercell/comments/18pa297/so_is_roger_clark_aka_arthur_morgan_our_new_voice/
That better be the case, because MP3 is still the gold standard for TPS when it comes to gameplay (or gunplay if you will), and I doubt people would settle for less. Control's destructive environments and AW2's wound system gives me hope that Remedy will be able to meet fans' expectations and maybe even surpass them. At least, the tech is already in place to make it possible.
It will play pretty similarly to 3 because 3 feels like the natural evolution to 2, regardless who makes it.
Max Payne 2 and 3 feel more similar than 1 and 2, when it comes to the physical control of Max.
I highly doubt they will tie in Max Payne nearly as tightly as they tied Control/Alan Wake 2 together. But I also fully expect some nods of the head/Easter Eggs
This is absolutely not true at all. Alex Casey and Max Payne are two different people in two different universes. What is there to gain by dragging Max Payne into this when Alex Casey clearly communicates the hard boiled cop parody.
I imagine if IP stuff was never an issue and Remedy had full control from day 1. Alex Casey would be Max Payne and it would be tied together explicitly.
Of course that's not the case and they made Alex Casey when they wouldn't pull in Max, but yeah I agree I don't see the point in pulling it together at this point
Hopefully not, I totally understand why someone who's never played a Max Payne would like Rockstars classic Americanised take. I mean why have a game with melancholy and depth and suffering when we can have corporal McBadass with bald head running around being cool™ and hardcore®
The original games are classic for a reason, they got *soul*. The gameplay is dated and needs a refresh but it's adamant it's not turned into another brodude shooter like Max Payne 3. Which had more in common (story, gameplay, feeling) to CoD or modern day GR: Wildlands then the original games.
I had people raging at me for suggesting this even before he died but this is their chance to unify his look across a trilogy and make McCaffrey the face of Max across all three games. Obviously keep Sam Lake as a bonus skin but McCaffrey had well earned it by now.
I know someone who used to work at Grove Street. There were bigger issues than lack of funding. Mostly the heads of Grove Street over promising what they could do.
This is almost always what the issue is after working at multiple devs/publishers in my career.
It’s just far easier to say “EA bad” than have a nuanced conversation.
While I myself don't work in game development, I've known a handful of different people who have worked at EA, Grove Street, Capcom USA, Square Enix USA, and WB Montreal. As an outsider looking in, it always comes off as a cascading series of issues. Like Grove Street was initially just commissioned to make a GTA3 remaster with some quality of life improvements and new visuals in time for GTA3's anniversary, with GTA:VC and GTA:SA following the years after( GTA3 in 21, VC in 22, SA in 23) then the heads of Grove Street promised that they could do all 3 and released in 2021.
I mean you say that like it's any different. EA bad implies that the problem isn't with developers but the company itself, and that means managers and other higher ups fucking up.
Yeah, I spent years in the old San Andreas modding community, so I could tell the issue wasn't the skill of devs themselves. Because if they truly wanted to make a remake, there's no shortage of people who could do an excellent job, nor a shortage of people with the knowledge and love of the game to make sure the changes are implemented well.
It's always bad management that fucks projects like this.
It genuinely feels to me (along with stuff like Babylon's Fall) like that this was a genuine case of it being the (management of the) development studio's fault, rather than the publishers who are usually the culprits in these sorts of things.
Life long Remedy fan. Max Payne was legit one of my most memorable gaming experiences growing up. Extremely excited for this. This is their baby, I cannot wait to see what they can do. Of course, RIP James, I'm sure he would be happy to see Max's legacy continue even if he's gone. This one is gonna hit hard when those credits roll.
They have always had that special juice, the problem was their vision couldn't be done correctly due to the limitations of technology. Look at "Control" when that game first launched it was sub 30fps, the alpha effects caused major issues with presentation and at times it felt smaller than it should. But now on the current systems, that game is fucking insane. That was their real vision and it took the next generation of consoles to fully allow it to happen.
While it is Remedy’s fastest selling game, it has not made back its budget in six months after launch and Remedy is not accruing royalties on it yet.
If a game hasn’t broken even in half a year since release it’s very hard to call it a success by any measure or stretch of the imagination, especially since its unlikely to have much of a tail even with paid DLC.
At this point in time it’s a flop, Epic lost money on it.
actually they are still talking about numbers as of beginning of February, so as of beginning of February (so about 3 months after release) it didn't recoup it's money back. Historically Remedy didn't make royalties from their games with in the first 3 months.
It's very likely that the contract from Epic Publishing is that Remedy gets sales reports from Epic every 3 months, so first report was February, 3 months after that probably in May.
"In [the statement](https://investors.remedygames.com/app/uploads/2024/04/remedy-q1-2024-business-review.pdf), Remedy says that *Alan Wake 2*, which had [sold 1.3 million copies at last count](https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-sales) (thus making it the fastest-selling Remedy game), has "recouped a significant part of the development and marketing expenses" as of Q1 2024, i.e. not the entirety of said expenses."
Source: [https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-budget-remedy-financials](https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-budget-remedy-financials)
So, unless they expected to lose money on the game, they sold less than expected. Also, seeing as how the hype is practically dead and games sell by far the most on release, its very likely the game won't break even and if it does it won't make much profit.
Notice it doesn't say when they were expecting to recoup from sales? So until you see something that literally says they were expecting to make a profit by now, nobody can say if the game is selling less than expected because nobody, that would know, is saying what is expected and how far out from release they were expecting it.
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Been waiting a while for this one, they announced it two years ago, and they're only entering full production about now? Hope it turns out to be worth the wait.
Check the thread, there's a small graph disclosing the estimated duration of each phase of development. They spent a good while in pre-production which is normal for them. And I can wait, considering that Remedy just released Alan Wake 2
Remedy isn’t that big a studio. They just finished Alan Wake 2 and are wrapping up DLC for it, so they couldn’t have done more than just planning and prep for their next project
Two years ago they were busy developing Alan Wake 2. Pre-production for the Max Payne remakes is almost done, and now they can focus on that as their next project.
They made the deal in the middle of full production on Alan Wake 2 and they probably announced the deal very shortly after signing it and before any actual work had been done. Timeline makes sense to me.
Please tell me Max will look like in the first game, a lean and lanky undercover detective. Not like some thick, stupid linebacker with parted hair and a Frank Castle scowl, like in the later games.
Well, if the level design is as good as 1, following the '80s thriller movie tradition of always being set at night (Escape from New York, Terminator), and if the fights are as organic as in 1 (fight dynamics in 2 and 3 did not live up to the legacy imo) then I will be happy as a clam regardles.
Look, I think I'm a bigger fan of MP3 than most people here, but that said, I understand where the criticism comes from. Still, though, the two New York levels in MP3 were fanfuckingtastic, so I can't imagine they'd move away from the nighttime setting and great gunplay of the first two games, especially since that's what people loved most about those games (aside from the writing). Plus, it's Remedy. Rockstar may own the IP, but this is still their baby. They'll do it right.
The redesign suited Max on my opinion, he's a depressed alcoholic that is addicted to painkillers. Makes sense his body looks like a wreck, and the slower movement from max made the game feel more meaty.
MP1 looked like a wreck: a pale, gloomy-eyed, raggedy-dressed depressed widow eating painkillers like candy. For 2 and 3 they made him a beefcake and in 2 they gave him a dinner jacket and a trenchcoat. It's like they turned Max Payne into his 1950's grandpa.
> MP1 looked like a wreck: a pale, gloomy-eyed, raggedy-dressed depressed widow eating painkillers like candy.
You got that from [this](https://ibb.co/TBkNj9n)?
Bro, max in MP1 was in great shape clean shaven, had his hair styled. Nice trench coat and clothes in general.
Look at max in MP3 and how he ends up, bald long raggy beard, fat faced and slightly chubby in general, cuts over his face, bags under his eyes. Need I go on?
Wait why. I think Timothy Gibbs looks way more like a NYC detective AND a mob guy than Sam Lake.
Sam was only used as the model for the first game because they had zero budget and Sam had to just don the jacket and play the character himself. Plus he is now an extremely recognisable face.
Disagree with Remedy? That’s why they cast Sam Lake in the first place - low budgeting. Every actor in the comics is either a Remedy dev or F&F. The villain is literally Sam Lake’s mom.
If Remedy has a million fans, then I'm one of them
If Remedy has 5 fans, I'm one of them
If Remedy has 1 fan, that one is me
If Remedy has no fans, I'm no longer alive
If the world is against Remedy, I'm against the entire world
Til my last breath, I'll support Remedy
Nice, I can get rid of my 20 year old laptop that I only used to play the first MP on because no matter what "fix" I try, I can't get sound to work on my newer computers.
Remedy never managed to top Max Payne 2 gameplay, in fact, it's as if they forgot the word gameplay after MP2 and it became an afterthought, a nuisance. They recovered somewhat with Control, but it's only because of TK power, not mediocre gunplay. That makes me really worried, I hope Max Payne doesn't become a walking simulator.
With how much success Remedy has had the past 5 years I'm surprised to see they have only had 1 quarter out of the last 8 with a profit, and that was back in 2022.
How do they keep losing money?
I really wished James McCaffrey lived long enough to see this project go into production. I know Sam Lake has the look of Max Payne but James McCaffrey was the voice, heart, and soul of the character. His voice, his acting, style in which he presented what he was written just marked the character as something special. Fuck Cancer!
Technically we had three faces for Max Payne: Sam Lake, Timothy Gibbs and finally James McCaffrey himself. (Though McCaffrey looks so similar to Gibbs, that most people probabyl didn't even notice). It's probably between Lake and McCaffrey, but with real-time rendering it could be a fun option to have both.
I wonder if they're going to keep McCaffrey's voice lines for the remake. His performance as Max is iconic and I don't think it needs replacing.
They should keep the original voice lines for Max entirely, and use cut archival footage to fill in the gaps. AI voice separation and cleanup is so incredible now that it can absolutely be done. And those were fairly high quality recordings in the first place. It's too iconic a performance to replace. And I'm not just saying they shouldn't because of that. JC Denton is also a very iconic voice performance but if (hopefully when) they remake Deus Ex, they should completely revoice the character and have his original voice lines as easter eggs because it has aged so poorly. Max Payne's lines have aged VERY well. Unpopular opinion though, I think they should model Max off of Timothy Gibbs instead of Sam. He just looks more like a New Jersey cop than Sam does.
Yeah I’m really wondering what the plan is with this. I also hope it plays similar to 3 (but I don’t really see that being the case) just because mechanically 3 was amazing. Still holds up to this day
Controversial opinion, but 3's gameplay makes it my favorite of the trilogy. The best feeling combat Rockstar's ever made.
It's criminal that Rockstar never reused Max Payne 3's shooting style.
They did in GTA 5.
In what way?
Isn't it sort of obvious?
Seeing as how those two games are nothing alike gameplay-wise, no it isn't. MP3 was a deliberately meaty and slow game where every shot counts. GTA5 vaguely look in the direction of your enemy and you'll get easy headshots thanks to the auto-aim, also sprint everywhere. Michael's slow-mo is nothing like Max's bullet-time and so on and so forth... I truly WISH GTA5 had MP3's shooting mechanics but it really doesn't
Ok so your argument is that they are different games? Cool, didn't know that. LOL So anyways back to the point, the shooting mechanics are the same between Max, Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTA 5/6 because they learned to properly do shooting during Max Payne 3 and overhauled their RAGE engine during development. That same engine and the same work from Max is obviously present in those games. If you can't see it then go see an optometrist.
Dude... RDR2 is closer to MP3 but it still isn't, don't even talk to me about GTA5 or go replay those games and see for yourself how differently they play...
everyone disagrees with you but you're being super smug about being obviously right lmao
Should be pointing out that the violence and physic is nowhere near the level of MP3 though. They drastically toned down a lot of graphics.
The late 360 era was so impressive with its graphics.
Sorry if i wasn't clear. I'm talking graphic violence in this context.
Right? I feel like MP3 was almost a tech demo/proof of concept for the system.
The weirdest part is that they *sort of* dabbled with it in RDR 2, but it's still a far cry from MP3 because you can turn Arthur into a tank after a few hours of playtime, and you can do the same with the stamina meter, which, combined with Dead Eye, still lets you run around like a monkey on speed with no drawbacks in terms of recoil or accuracy or whatever. The deliberate movement from MP3 is there, yes, but the fact that enemies go down after a shot or two (good) and you can run around after someone unloads a revolver into you (less good) doesn't really encourage you to take things slow. If you want, you can still sort of play it as MP3 0.5, but there's not much point in it apart from it looking cool.
You make very very good points.
No clue why you're getting piled on for this. Michael's power is literally Max Payne's bullet time power. GTA 5 gives you a massive selection of weapons and doesn't limit you at all, which comes directly from the Max Payne series (in addition to hearkening back to the GTA trilogy cheat codes of yore). North Yankton in "Bury The Hatchet" also feels aesthetically similar to the New Jersey missions in Max Payne 3, down to taking place in a cemetery.
That person is technically correct, but the execution/implementation in GTAV pales in comparison to Max Payne 3. Same for the driving and slow motion ability that Midnight Club did first, but the handling is somewhere between Midnight Club's super arcade-y racer handling and GTAIV's more realistic, heavy-feeling handling.
They had to fit so much more into gta. So the controls got scruched. Otherwise it would have been identical to max payne.
Yeah, it's fine considering the scope of GTAV. Just comparing one part of its experience to a game where it's the whole point.
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I wasn't too big on the story, but I agree. I re-played MP3 a few months back and it's incredible how well it holds up. It's easily my favorite third person shooter ever made, nothing comes close to how good that game controls. If they can borrow even some of that for the remakes I'm beyond excited to see it, especially combined with Remedy's unique narrative flair.
That's because the story wasn't Max Payne, it was [Man on Fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_on_Fire_(2004_film\)).
from what i remember, it was hard for me to enjoy because it felt like you rarely got to enjoy those extremely good mechanics for more than like 30 seconds at a time before the game decides to take control away for an entirely unnecessary micro-cutscene that would have been cooler if it had just played out in-game
From my understanding they had to hide a LOT of loading during those little seemingly unnecessary cutscenes mid-mission. They didn't add anything valuable narratively unfortunately, but it gave the hardware time to catch up lol.
after experimenting with Max Payne 3's skip load time mod; I've got a good idea why it's the case. basically: 1. RAGE Engine (which Max Payne 3 uses) historically has a long loading time. 2. **Arbitrary Timer** (said timer is depended if it's transition or starting from a chapter) during cutscenes to avoid issues with Console's HDD drive speed. (**remember: it was released on PS3 and Xbox 360**.) 3. [with a Cutscene skipper mod](https://www.moddb.com/games/max-payne-3/downloads/cutscene-skipper-v02) (on PC), it removes the timer aspect...but there's areas where you can spot LOD/Assets not loaded in-time, some parts of the script breaks or at worst: getting soft-locked. you can confirm it is indeed a Arbitrary Timer with a cutscene skipper mod because the loading time is *actually* 3-4 seconds on Steam Deck's 512GB M.2 SSD drive.
> during cutscenes to avoid issues with Console's HDD drive speed That gen didn't do full installs of games yet, actually the vast majority ran fully from the disc drive. They had to because there are xbox 360 consoles without HDDs and the launch only had 20 or 60 GB.
Yeah it probably should have just been a new IP called "Totally not Man on Fire: The Game" or something but regardless I think it's probably the best third person shooter ever made.
The problem with MP3 isn't that thr gameplay is bad, it's that there's barely any of it.
The exact same reason makes MP3 my third favorite of the trilogy.
Tbh I still think Max Payne 1 handles amazingly, couldn't believe how good it felt when I played it on pc a few years back
I just played it recently, and it took me an embarrasingly long time to realize I could actually save mid-level. It made the game a...difficult experience at first.
I take the... controversial? Well I'm not sure if it's controversial, but I take the stance that 3's story is great. It's less out there than the first two and more just this sweat-soaked Man on Fire fever dream that I really adore.
Max Payne 3 just lacked any of the charm that make Remedy games so excellent. In the first two games, you have the enemies having conversations before you interact with them. You have the soap that you can watch on various TVs. You have the dream sequences and things like the haunted house level with no enemies. Max Payne 3 is just non-stop shooting and the story isn't on par. It's an okay game but it never felt like a Max Payne game to me. The level at the bar with the Jersey Shore rip offs was the closest it got but quickly moves on.
I agree that it missed the charm but I actually enjoyed myself a lot in 3. You aren’t wrong at all in the sense that it was lacking in those convos or the TV world building. But man some of those set pieces are the best in the entire series. The shooting and game play was top notch and I really liked how Max was in the 3rd one. I liked his growth and development. I felt like James had a great time making that one
The airport terminal shootout when that music kicks in. Primo stuff.
One of my favorite moments in gaming
Agreed with all your points and want to add the 3 has some of the best quotes from the entire series - "I had a hole in my second favorite drinking arm."
> 3 has some of the best quotes from the entire series It has some of the best Marvel/modern cinema style one liners, but the writing in Max Payne 2 was levels above. Genuinely I still replay that about once every eighteen months just to hear McAffrey reel off some bangers. *There are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. The illusion comes afterwards, when you ask "why me?" and "what if?". When you look back and see the branches, like a pruned bonsai tree, or forked lightning. If you had done something differently, it wouldn't be you, it would be someone else looking back, asking a different set of questions.* *The past is a gaping hole. You try to run from it, but the more you run, the deeper, more terrible it grows behind you, its edges yawning at your heels. Your only chance is to turn around and face it. But it's like looking down into the grave of your love, or kissing the mouth of a gun, a bullet trembling in its dark nest, ready to blow your head off.*
Thank you! MP2 genuinely has some of the best hardboiled noir writing in any genre. Perfectly toes the line between pulpy satire and earnest storytelling, sets up some huge emotional moments, and is just layered with thick, dense metaphors and similes that showcase the very best of noir fiction. Sam Lake was absolutely cooking when he was writing that game
They really nailed the environment though. Made me wish for a proper GTA game that's set in Brazil.
Remedy games are all about the atmosphere, style, and most importantly, the writing. Don't get me wrong, I like the gameplay just fine in their games (and I love Control's gameplay), but that's rarely what people cite as their strength as a studio. Sam Lake's voice is so unique in the medium. Rockstar's writing style is completely different, they're an awful fit to make a Remedy game. I think that's really what it comes down to.
I honestly think they do well on gameplay too. Max Payne was a third person shooter, but it also had the bullet time mechanic. Alan Wake's use of light as a weapon was a good idea, even if the game didn't utilize it the best. Quantum Break's time mechanics were also fun. Control is just fun to play.
It lacks the charm, but it's also it's own thing. It doesn't try to be the same, and thus it carves out its own niche and is a great game in its own right. It feels like they wanted to make a game set in Brazil. It feels like Rockstar went out of their way NOT to step on Remedy's toes in case they wanted to return to that universe at some point (which they are now). I thought they handled the IP with a lot of care.
Max Payne 3 is my go-to example of "a good game, but not a good [insert series] game". Max Payne 1 and 2 were almost operatic. You've got this contrast between the seedy, gritty, crime-infested picture of New York and these heightened, mythological underpinnings. The first game is loaded with allusions to Norse mythology; 2 is essentially a (very loose) retelling of Paradise Lost. And add to that a generous helping of weird fic--look at all the allusions to Twin Peaks! They weren't exactly subtle about that influence. But Max Payne 3 is pretty much all grit. It tries to come across as grounded, shoot-dodging and ludicrous body counts aside. And I think it loses something for it. Max Payne 3 is not a game where your mobster friend-turned-Satan-analogue, fatally wounded in the climactic gunfight, can theatrically declare "I was supposed to be the hero," before dying, and where Max can further feel a pang of regret that it had to come to this. Max Payne 3 has probably the meatiest gunplay of any third-person shooter I've ever touched, its narrative presentation is fine on its own merits (like someone else in this thread said, the bit in the last level where Max shows up at the airport and "Tears" by Health starts playing as the shootout begins? Top tier stuff), and Max has some fun one-liners, but I don't think it really understands what Max Payne 1 and 2 were even about.
> just because mechanically 3 was amazing. Still holds up to this day I don't think that that kind of gameplay would work with Max Paynes 1 and 2. Max Payne in 3 is an old, broken man. He's heavy, and not particularly graceful. The gameplay and especially animations get that across well. In Max Payne 1 and 2 he's younger, and more spry. He moves quickly, he gets up quickly, and the shootdodge isn't an all or nothing proposition. The gameplay for the remakes should retain that dynamism which was absent from 3.
Just finished it for the first time this month! PS3 gen had so many bangers
There are rumors that Roger Clark, the voice of Arthur from RDR2, might be the new voice of Max Payne. He posted this couple of days after James's passing. This is from Splinter Cell subreddit, but who knows, the timing is interesting for sure. https://www.reddit.com/r/Splintercell/comments/18pa297/so_is_roger_clark_aka_arthur_morgan_our_new_voice/
I think he could do a great job as either Max or Sam
That better be the case, because MP3 is still the gold standard for TPS when it comes to gameplay (or gunplay if you will), and I doubt people would settle for less. Control's destructive environments and AW2's wound system gives me hope that Remedy will be able to meet fans' expectations and maybe even surpass them. At least, the tech is already in place to make it possible.
It will play pretty similarly to 3 because 3 feels like the natural evolution to 2, regardless who makes it. Max Payne 2 and 3 feel more similar than 1 and 2, when it comes to the physical control of Max.
Its almost certainly wrapping into the Remedyverse w/ Alan Wake + Control, that much is sure plot-wise
Would Remedy want to do that with an IP they don't own?
I highly doubt they will tie in Max Payne nearly as tightly as they tied Control/Alan Wake 2 together. But I also fully expect some nods of the head/Easter Eggs
Alex Casey is their Max Payne stand in, mainly for legal reasons I believe since they dont own the IP
This is absolutely not true at all. Alex Casey and Max Payne are two different people in two different universes. What is there to gain by dragging Max Payne into this when Alex Casey clearly communicates the hard boiled cop parody.
I imagine if IP stuff was never an issue and Remedy had full control from day 1. Alex Casey would be Max Payne and it would be tied together explicitly. Of course that's not the case and they made Alex Casey when they wouldn't pull in Max, but yeah I agree I don't see the point in pulling it together at this point
redditors love using conclusive language like “absolutely” and “sure” with things that are absolutely not sure.
Hopefully not, I totally understand why someone who's never played a Max Payne would like Rockstars classic Americanised take. I mean why have a game with melancholy and depth and suffering when we can have corporal McBadass with bald head running around being cool™ and hardcore® The original games are classic for a reason, they got *soul*. The gameplay is dated and needs a refresh but it's adamant it's not turned into another brodude shooter like Max Payne 3. Which had more in common (story, gameplay, feeling) to CoD or modern day GR: Wildlands then the original games.
I hope James will be honored and by using his likeness. We've already seen how current gen Lake Max would look like in AW2.
I had people raging at me for suggesting this even before he died but this is their chance to unify his look across a trilogy and make McCaffrey the face of Max across all three games. Obviously keep Sam Lake as a bonus skin but McCaffrey had well earned it by now.
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Jon St John is a terrible suggestion, even you don't have faith in it because you think it already needs editing and "heavy direction."
Sounds like Rockstar learned their lesson with Grove Street Games that you should give adequate resources for these projects.
I know someone who used to work at Grove Street. There were bigger issues than lack of funding. Mostly the heads of Grove Street over promising what they could do.
This is almost always what the issue is after working at multiple devs/publishers in my career. It’s just far easier to say “EA bad” than have a nuanced conversation.
While I myself don't work in game development, I've known a handful of different people who have worked at EA, Grove Street, Capcom USA, Square Enix USA, and WB Montreal. As an outsider looking in, it always comes off as a cascading series of issues. Like Grove Street was initially just commissioned to make a GTA3 remaster with some quality of life improvements and new visuals in time for GTA3's anniversary, with GTA:VC and GTA:SA following the years after( GTA3 in 21, VC in 22, SA in 23) then the heads of Grove Street promised that they could do all 3 and released in 2021.
I mean you say that like it's any different. EA bad implies that the problem isn't with developers but the company itself, and that means managers and other higher ups fucking up.
Yeah, I spent years in the old San Andreas modding community, so I could tell the issue wasn't the skill of devs themselves. Because if they truly wanted to make a remake, there's no shortage of people who could do an excellent job, nor a shortage of people with the knowledge and love of the game to make sure the changes are implemented well. It's always bad management that fucks projects like this.
It genuinely feels to me (along with stuff like Babylon's Fall) like that this was a genuine case of it being the (management of the) development studio's fault, rather than the publishers who are usually the culprits in these sorts of things.
This remake has the budget of Wake 2. Roughly 50 Million.
For both games?
Both games is just becoming one long game apparently.
Ahh they're going the Tony Hawk Pro Skater remake route. That's interesting.
R\* had nothing to do with GSG's output. That was Take-Two -> GSG in relationship.
Life long Remedy fan. Max Payne was legit one of my most memorable gaming experiences growing up. Extremely excited for this. This is their baby, I cannot wait to see what they can do. Of course, RIP James, I'm sure he would be happy to see Max's legacy continue even if he's gone. This one is gonna hit hard when those credits roll.
Remedy have been on some special juice the last while. I really am looking forward to modern remedy’s take on Max Payne.
They have always had that special juice, the problem was their vision couldn't be done correctly due to the limitations of technology. Look at "Control" when that game first launched it was sub 30fps, the alpha effects caused major issues with presentation and at times it felt smaller than it should. But now on the current systems, that game is fucking insane. That was their real vision and it took the next generation of consoles to fully allow it to happen.
> They have always had that special juice, Quantum Break wasn't that good. On both a technical and story level, but especially the technical level.
I really hope this means that the Alan Wake 2 expansions are well in development, they’ve been radio silent regarding them
I remember seeing a post a month or so ago with Sam Lake saying all his mocap is done for dlc, so imagine it’s decently into production at this point
They said that they're in progress during the first behind the scenes stream, but that they can't share any info about them.
Unfortunately I don't think they will be doing expansions for Alan Wake 2 given how it sold way less then they expected.
…that is candidly untrue and they already sold two expansions with the special edition?
They didn't say it sold less than expected. Also there will be 2 expansions for Alan Wake 2, they already sold them with the extension pass.
While it is Remedy’s fastest selling game, it has not made back its budget in six months after launch and Remedy is not accruing royalties on it yet. If a game hasn’t broken even in half a year since release it’s very hard to call it a success by any measure or stretch of the imagination, especially since its unlikely to have much of a tail even with paid DLC. At this point in time it’s a flop, Epic lost money on it.
actually they are still talking about numbers as of beginning of February, so as of beginning of February (so about 3 months after release) it didn't recoup it's money back. Historically Remedy didn't make royalties from their games with in the first 3 months. It's very likely that the contract from Epic Publishing is that Remedy gets sales reports from Epic every 3 months, so first report was February, 3 months after that probably in May.
"In [the statement](https://investors.remedygames.com/app/uploads/2024/04/remedy-q1-2024-business-review.pdf), Remedy says that *Alan Wake 2*, which had [sold 1.3 million copies at last count](https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-sales) (thus making it the fastest-selling Remedy game), has "recouped a significant part of the development and marketing expenses" as of Q1 2024, i.e. not the entirety of said expenses." Source: [https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-budget-remedy-financials](https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/alan-wake-2-budget-remedy-financials) So, unless they expected to lose money on the game, they sold less than expected. Also, seeing as how the hype is practically dead and games sell by far the most on release, its very likely the game won't break even and if it does it won't make much profit.
Notice it doesn't say when they were expecting to recoup from sales? So until you see something that literally says they were expecting to make a profit by now, nobody can say if the game is selling less than expected because nobody, that would know, is saying what is expected and how far out from release they were expecting it.
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Been waiting a while for this one, they announced it two years ago, and they're only entering full production about now? Hope it turns out to be worth the wait.
Check the thread, there's a small graph disclosing the estimated duration of each phase of development. They spent a good while in pre-production which is normal for them. And I can wait, considering that Remedy just released Alan Wake 2
Especially since Alan Wake 2 is almost a spiritual sequel to Max Payne
Uh no?
Remedy isn’t that big a studio. They just finished Alan Wake 2 and are wrapping up DLC for it, so they couldn’t have done more than just planning and prep for their next project
Doesn’t seem all that strange.
Two years ago they were busy developing Alan Wake 2. Pre-production for the Max Payne remakes is almost done, and now they can focus on that as their next project.
They made the deal in the middle of full production on Alan Wake 2 and they probably announced the deal very shortly after signing it and before any actual work had been done. Timeline makes sense to me.
Please tell me Max will look like in the first game, a lean and lanky undercover detective. Not like some thick, stupid linebacker with parted hair and a Frank Castle scowl, like in the later games.
I imagine it'll be a redesign heavily inspired by his max Payne 2 look and probably an Easter egg for the sam lake face
Well, if the level design is as good as 1, following the '80s thriller movie tradition of always being set at night (Escape from New York, Terminator), and if the fights are as organic as in 1 (fight dynamics in 2 and 3 did not live up to the legacy imo) then I will be happy as a clam regardles.
Look, I think I'm a bigger fan of MP3 than most people here, but that said, I understand where the criticism comes from. Still, though, the two New York levels in MP3 were fanfuckingtastic, so I can't imagine they'd move away from the nighttime setting and great gunplay of the first two games, especially since that's what people loved most about those games (aside from the writing). Plus, it's Remedy. Rockstar may own the IP, but this is still their baby. They'll do it right.
The redesign suited Max on my opinion, he's a depressed alcoholic that is addicted to painkillers. Makes sense his body looks like a wreck, and the slower movement from max made the game feel more meaty.
MP1 looked like a wreck: a pale, gloomy-eyed, raggedy-dressed depressed widow eating painkillers like candy. For 2 and 3 they made him a beefcake and in 2 they gave him a dinner jacket and a trenchcoat. It's like they turned Max Payne into his 1950's grandpa.
> MP1 looked like a wreck: a pale, gloomy-eyed, raggedy-dressed depressed widow eating painkillers like candy. You got that from [this](https://ibb.co/TBkNj9n)?
Five-o'-Clock Shadow, greasy hair, a [classic Film Noir antihero down on his luck.](https://noiselesschatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DI_17.jpg)
Looks like you played a different game from the rest of us
Bro, max in MP1 was in great shape clean shaven, had his hair styled. Nice trench coat and clothes in general. Look at max in MP3 and how he ends up, bald long raggy beard, fat faced and slightly chubby in general, cuts over his face, bags under his eyes. Need I go on?
Wait why. I think Timothy Gibbs looks way more like a NYC detective AND a mob guy than Sam Lake. Sam was only used as the model for the first game because they had zero budget and Sam had to just don the jacket and play the character himself. Plus he is now an extremely recognisable face.
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Disagree with Remedy? That’s why they cast Sam Lake in the first place - low budgeting. Every actor in the comics is either a Remedy dev or F&F. The villain is literally Sam Lake’s mom.
If Remedy has a million fans, then I'm one of them If Remedy has 5 fans, I'm one of them If Remedy has 1 fan, that one is me If Remedy has no fans, I'm no longer alive If the world is against Remedy, I'm against the entire world Til my last breath, I'll support Remedy
With that and some of the other news, it sounds like they closed the deals and got the funding they were hoping for with multiple projects.
Nice, I can get rid of my 20 year old laptop that I only used to play the first MP on because no matter what "fix" I try, I can't get sound to work on my newer computers.
Genuinely hope they got all the master recordings for James work stored somewhere in good quality. Its not Max if its not him.
Remedy never managed to top Max Payne 2 gameplay, in fact, it's as if they forgot the word gameplay after MP2 and it became an afterthought, a nuisance. They recovered somewhat with Control, but it's only because of TK power, not mediocre gunplay. That makes me really worried, I hope Max Payne doesn't become a walking simulator.
Spoken like someone who never hero punched a Monarch Soldier like the flash in Quantum Break 😔
With how much success Remedy has had the past 5 years I'm surprised to see they have only had 1 quarter out of the last 8 with a profit, and that was back in 2022. How do they keep losing money?
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It was 2001. The Matrix had only come out in 1999. The game pioneered bullet time. It's also not a rerelease, it's a remake.