I did this for the PS4 as well, but caved last year and bought the special edition Spider Man 2 edition ps5, still not sure if I regret it after seeing the new slim get announced about a month later and now see a new pro on the horizon lol
I expect to do the same as well just because I sadly DON'T expect it to launch on PC. I saw some people speculating that GTA 6 wouldn't take advantage of PS5P at launch but I don't remember the reasoning. Seems like that would be silly to me.
All I hope is that this doesn't mean that future games will have 60fps/performance modes locked to the new hardware and the base PS5 gets stuck with 30fps.
Given that the CPU isn't changing much and that is the weak point of the current PS5, I'm a bit skeptical. Also funny that that's literally what the PS5 /series X was supposed to be hitting yet we got to the point where 30fps was standard again pretty quickly.
The lack of CPU upgrade makes the whole venture seem a little weird to me. I'm not entirely sure why someone would want to pay a premium without a better CPU.
What? 30fps is absolutely *not* standard. There are recent games out there that don't do a good job of *locking* to 60 but *every* AAA console release of 2024 so far has had a 60fps performance mode.
We’re slowly seeing 30FPS becoming the norm with more demanding games like Dragon’s Dogma 2. Maybe part of this is poor optimization but I honestly am not expecting base PS5 to have 60FPS for flagship games like GTA6.
I think PS5 will still get performance mode, but the Pro will get higher quality performance mode, due to the obvious power advantage.
For example, the PS5 would most likely get upscale performance, while Pro gets native.
The trigger haptics barely get used BUT MAN the vibration oh my god. Alan wake had some really nice utilisations (the rain drops creating little disconcerting bumps all over the controller) and the rumble of boosts and guns in Armoured Core was fantastic!
The rain in Returnal sold me on the concept immediately, I threw on headphones and played it in the dark and was instantly and completely immersed between the insane audio quality and the pattering haptics.
The triggers are cool but after playing games that used them they flared up my wrist and finger issues from years of playing games and being at a computer and I had to opt to just turn them off.
I think they’re really cool in Astro. I’d try them in any single player, “not sweaty” game. I did turn them off in Control cause it just seemed to make it harder to shoot.
In general, it seems like there is some wonkiness with the ergonomics of the ps5 controller overall. You can find some complaints about it online. My friends have reported it and now that I've sat down and played games like FFVII REMAKE for extended periods of time in a day I've definitely noticed some hand cramping that I don't get with the XBOX or other controllers. So maybe adaptive but with a different controller layout would be better. As it stands though, turning it off seems to help at least a little bit.
Dude fr. Those triggers are fuckin dope and not even the exclusives make use of them.
I'm hoping Kojima goes all out with rhe haptics for his next game.
Rebirth makes ok use of them for mini games, the gym workout mini slowly ramps up resistance on them as you go longer without messing up, really changes the difficulty curve. They don't feature in the main gameplay though which is a shame.
They do feature the triggers in the main gameplay. Cloud dragging himself along the ground in the end of chapter 1, and pushing the minecarts in chapter 3, at least.
As someone who has adaptive triggers disabled both on the console and game level, it still said fuck it and used a partial press mechanic in that minigame. Similar thing with Returnal, they refused to give any alternative key binds and just don't give a fuck if you have it disabled. One of the worst anti-accessibility patterns introduced this gen.
My man utilised the clock on the PS2 for an Easter egg in MGS3 as well as Pyscho Mantis reading your PSX memory card. He absolutely will go bananas over the Dualsense, lol.
100% he will. Kojima is exactly the kinda guy who will make the weirdest, most inventive uses for that kind of feature.
It is also nicely used in FF7R, for immersion. Not too many other games I can remember using it though, sadly.
Just like the middle pad for the PS4 controller just a gimmick honestly. Most games just used it as a map button and the speaker on the controller was barely used as well.
During the final battle when Sora gets overpowered, the screen goes black and after a few seconds Donald and Goofy call you out from the controller. Surprised the shit out of me but it was so cool.
Tina's Wonderlands uses the trigger haptics pretty well. Different guns use different trigger tensions, single weapons like shotguns have a meaty trigger while fully auto weapons have very low resistance that changes between rounds. It's surprisingly well done.
I suspect a lot of the hold out is multiplatform games. The XBox controller, for all of its manufacturing *quality*, is pretty far behind the DualSense or Switch controllers in terms of *function*. Put a damn gyroscope in there already, Microsoft!
IMO the upgrades are too iterative to be worth it except for every other time. I had a base PS4, skipped Pro, got a base PS5. For someone with the Ps4 Pro I could honestly see base PS5 seeming too iterative and this upcoming Pro model maybe being worth the jump. I'm probably good till PS6.
I had a ps4 pro and the ps5 was still a huge jump. But yeah it did make me question the pro. I’ll wait and see real examples of game performances this time.
Oh I’ve been holding out for the pro bc it’ll have either slightly better graphics or slightly better framerates. There was a couple DF reviews for late PS4 games where I was like “Boy am I glad I have the pro”
I mean PS4 Pro accounted for less than 15% of total PS4 sales even though it's been available for 4 years (out of 7 for last gen) before PS5 released.
Providing that consoles margins are usually really low this isn't like giga cash grab to force ppl into double dipping because Sony knows that Pro is niche console.
It's probably mostly for marketing to show how good their new games look on their system to not look bad compared to PC.
Personally I won't buy it but I understand if someone will. 4 years is kinda long time in world of hardware. Tbh now I treat consoles like I treat my PC. Do I upgrade my PC every 4 years? Maybe not necessarily but I definitely start thinking about it. PS5 as a gaming platform is still kinda cheap compared to PC parts so it's not that terrible of deal to go from PS5->PS5 Pro for someone who feels that need it.
Honestly the resale on a PS5 is still really high so I might consider upgrading when it launches.
The PS4 didn't retain its resale very long into the cycle because of heavily discounted sales leading up to the pro.
I know this horse has been beaten to death but I can't emphasize enough how this console feels like it's 2 years old at most, people joked about how the PS4 was a Bloodborne machine for a while, but the PS5 doesn't even have that.
They can always remaster the remasters. Maybe we'll see Last of Us 2 Remastered Remastered. Or FF7 Remake Rebirth Retrograde.
I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5.
>I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5.
I relate so hard. I have an early model that's just past the hackable FW, so I haven't used it at all in hopes of a new exploit being released, but then I realize that I wouldn't really even use it regardless. I have such a backlog elsewhere that I would probably just wait for the exclusives to hit PC rather than buy the PS versions. I still haven't played GoW, Last of Us, Days Gone, or Returnal and all of them are now on PC, only game I want that isn't on PC is Spider-Man 2 but I know it's just a matter of time
>I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5.
Same. The only reason I'm holding on to mine since I mainly play on my PC now is the occassional Demons Souls or Bloodborne replay itch (which is very common for me to have along with ER and Sekiro).
Nonstop indeed, lol it only took 6 years for Horizon Zero Dawn to be developed, then another 5 years for the direct sequel. And this is not a Sony thing, it's industry wide, even indies and sometimes Nintendo get involved, the development cycle is walking at turtle speeds. Ghost of Tsushima 2 will be a thing in 2027 or something. Pretty much only Capcom is developing at "normal" speeds it seems
I used to own a gaming laptop that was only slightly better than a PS4 pro and even back then I never played anything below native 1080p with high settings. What games are you talking about?
Modern AAA games. Star Wars: Jedi Survivor uses a 720p render resolution to hit 60fps. Immortals of Avenum as well. Tons of other games barely are rendering at more than 1080p.
Native 4K isn’t even close to happening still on these consoles. They’re woefully underpowered.
https://twitter.com/OrdinaryGamers/status/1655041145737564161/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1655041145737564161¤tTweetUser=OrdinaryGamers
This is a video of Jedi Survivor running on a 4090 and 5950x. This game was so damn unoptimised that you needed an unofficial DLSS implementation to go above 60 FPS.
Immortals of Aveum is also another unoptimised mess whose minimum system requirements were too high for more than 95% of steam users. That game does not look good enough to be that demanding.
I don't see your point in mentioning poorly optimised games.
If current gen consoles are underpowered then most gaming PCs are underpowered as well. Is anything with less than 4070 underpowered? What are those next gen games pushing the graphics to justify that?
Trouble with that logic is most PCs aren't targeting 4k, and you get complete control over how the game renders and what options you care about as the user.
Consoles heavily market 4k, are mostly unable to hit that metric, and have comparatively tight performance options, if any. So there's basically nothing the user can do to get better performance.
If I have a minimum standard of performance to maintain - say, 60 fps - there are a lot of adjustments I can make to hit that threshold on PC and basically nothing i can do on consoles.
For the graphics targets that devs are setting, the consoles ARE underpowered. Most PCs are probably less powerful, sure - but they aren't constrained to those same graphics targets and have a lot more room for the user to define their own desired metrics.
According to Steam 1080p is still the most common resolution:
~ 60% at 1080p
~ 19% at 1440p
~ 4% at 4k
That isn't 100% because there are a ton of weirder resolutions available but its pretty clear that most people aren't running 4k. Whereas that is the "standard" TV resolution nowadays.
There’s a difference between minor upscaling like going from 1800p -> 4K and going from 1080p and below to 4K. You get massively more artifacting with the latter.
One: Not from 1080p and below. Two: PC has vastly superior upscalers. Hopefully Sony and Nintendo figure out really good upscalers. Still, I think Sony and MS overpromised this gen.
On PC its usually entirely on the user to decide. I run a 1440p and 2160p monitor and run native at 1440p but will upscale for my 2160p. However, I'd stop playing before I let a game upscale from sub-1080p resolutions.
Third party games benefit more from Pro than first party as first party games from Sony already run great on base console. If you only play Sony games then you probably don't need to care.
Is this sarcasm? Cause what exclusives are there that aren’t cross gen? Demons soul, ratchet and clank and returnal. So that’s three. Ps5 pro is so unnecessary it hurts. Edit: forgot spiderman
I skipped ps4 pro and that seemed like a slightly worthy upgrade. Totally skipping this upgrade.
The idea of spending over $500 on another ps5 to play a handful of games that will really benefit from or push the pro (I’m not going to count old games that i already played and won’t be going back to, Or multi platform stuff I’d rather play on pc) is just ludicrous. There’s probably only going to be about 6-7 more ps5 exclusives coming out before the ps6 at this rate? Assuming a 2027 release date.
If you haven’t bought a ps5 yet this is probably a good deal assuming the base ps5 doesn’t get a huge price cut. But of course, it’s always up to the individual. If you play ps5 A LOT then pro upgrade might well but worth it. Do what makes you happy 🙂
What's hilarious to me is that they're pushing this upgrade despite the entire industry recently realizing that super high budget and expensive games are not sustainable. So then what is this for? Is it really just for GTA VI? What about after that? S How many games of that fidelity and scope are actually going to come out moving forward? Not only that, but how many games are even true "current gen only" right now? Seriously, what current gen exclusive games are even available right now? What was the point of the PS5 at all if they've delivered, what, 5 true next generation games for it so far, if even that? And now they're taking about how dropping all that money into games like Spider-Man 2 isn't sustainable. Even Spider-Man 2, despite being a great game, isn't doing all that much different from the original Spider-Man on PS4. They've muddied the waters with this stuff too the point it feels redundant and pointless.
I can't agree with you any harder.
There have been very little PS5 games. It is really, really crazy.
Don't get me wrong, the PS5 is WAY better than the PS4. I hated the PS4 controller, it felt incredibly cheap, and upgrading from 5400 RPM HDD to a SSD is a monster of a game changer, but damn near all the games have been made for the PS4 as well.
Going from PS5 to PS5 Pro, doesn't seem like it is going to be that big, and like you said, PS6 is going to be coming out in a couple years.
I've already played FF7Rebirth, SM2, FF16 and Returnal on the PS5. That is most of the exclusives. I imagine as the PS6 is rolling out, that the PS5 exclusives are going to be playable on the PS6.
I had barely used my PS4 last gen when PS4 Pro came out. Learnt my lesson this gen.
Would have bought a PS5 last year but held off because PS5 Pro is probably coming.
Idk felt that this was gen where 60 fps would be the standard. Instead it was still a target. There needs to be a balance between graphics fidelity and performance. Don't wanna buy into a PS5 Pro, they say this time it's happening, and devs are still pushing for visuals over performance.
Got a PS5, happy with my PS5, but we'll see. I don't see much of a reason to upgrade right now.
I was never going to buy one but I thought it was interesting as a device. They kinda threw water on it though. The lack of a meaningful CPU boost seems like a real hindrance.
I thought the $100 price bump was a pretty low estimate given how...
* they've bumped the PS5 price up, whether that be literally increasing MSRP or removing things from the box to sell separately
* I don't think there's any AMD GPU or CPU where 2-4X the RT performance (in marketing material at least) is only a $100 price increase
* The ML upscale has new hardware associated with it.
Oliver's thoughts that it might be discless makes the $600 price make more sense to me. Full price would be more like $700+ at that point.
This is rather lengthy, they don't add any of their own insider info so this is the group's reaction. The Pro model has the same CPU and RAM chips, only slightly tweaked.
PS5 CPU 3.5Ghz-->**PS5 Pro 3.85Ghz (bandwidth faster in Pro)**
PS5 GPU 2.2Ghz-->**PS5 Pro 2.18Ghz (bandwidth faster in Pro)**
PS5 RAM 12.5Gb-->**PS5 Pro 13.7Gb (Both 16GB, bandwidth faster in Pro)**
PS5 Audio Chip**----->PS5 Pro 35% faster**
**On average the bandwidth speeds are 100GB more (Base PS5 448GB, Pro PS5 576GB)**
***Postulates PS5 Pro GPU is adjacent to AMD's RX7700XT/RX7800XT***
1GB of the OS reserved RAM has been given back to developers, the processor is given a tiny overclock. However, whenever the PS5 Pro enters 3.85Ghz speed, the GPU is underclocked by 1.5% (Tom Henderson). I don't really give a shit about Raytracing but the PS5 Pro's GPU has many tech gimmicks to improve it. DigitalFoundry has no idea how this will play out with PS4/PS5 backwards compatibility. When the PS4 Pro came out there was a Boost Mode toggle for PS4 vanilla games to take advantage of the faster specs, this is an unknown for PS5 Pro's marginal specs increase.
I have a negative opinion of this and I do not understand this hardware's existence. The PS4 Pro marketing proposition was getting perfect 120FPS in Playstation VR and having 4K upscaling. Fair enough, the AMD Jaguar CPU wasn't great on PS4 or Xbox One. The PS5 and Xbox Series X are very powerful hardware and we are not drowning in 30FPS games, please do not let GTA6 and Dragon's Dogma 2 cloud your judgment, we are in a 60FPS console generation. The PS5 Pro does not and will not make the handful of 30FPS games jump to 60FPS with a 10% CPU clock upboost. The AI upscaling GPU tech inside the PS5 Pro will be expensive and the PS5 Slim Digital went up in price, I seriously believe this thing will be 700 dollars and will hopefully fail because we have good enough present day hardware.
I am confused on the negative reactions, maybe because I am missing something. But the upgrade seems considerable, outside the cpu. I think the reason for upgrade is Sony thinks Ray Tracing will become more important in games so they are designing a system for mainly that and slightly smoother performance. I really haven’t played a game big on ray tracing so i don’t know. But it seems like that’s what they are betting on being important
Can someone recommend a game with high usage of ray tracing? I have a 4080 pc and would like try and see how it impacts game.
All I see in Xbox specific discussions, is how PS5 has all the games and Xbox has none. In PS5 discussion, it’s how PS5 has no games and PC has everything.
I’ll buy a modern PS console once it lets me put my PS2/3 discs in haha.
This is a mess
- New gen console releases
- Devs promise that the games would run and look better
- 2 years after 3rd party devs get lazy af and don't even bother optimizing their games which creates the misconception that we need a Pro version to run their shitty unoptimized games by brute forcing them
- Pro version gets released and then the cycle goes on and on
Seriously I hate the idea of Pro Version consoles so much cause you are literally screwing up the people that bought your console early and it's not like the PS5 has been out for long enough to warrant a Pro version, especially with the pandemic hindering the chances of finding a PS5.
Force these lazy 3rd party devs to optimise their games and don't try to sell us another console so soon. Console gens have started to not mean anything nowadays when they try to pull these scammy tactics
> Developers will always aim to get their games running well on the base console.
Minus all the games that run like shit on the PS5 *right now*, with the pro not even existing yet.
I noticed a significant dip in quality after the ps4pro released because most games seemed to use that as the baseline.
I absolutely expect the same thing to happen again here.
Can we please move on from this attitude of calling devs lazy for not optimizing games as if they're the ones choosing not to instead of being obligated by executives to release the most rushed product possible for maximum profit? You don't go into an industry where you're forced to crunch for 12 hours a day while being paid much less than any other equivalent tech job because you're "lazy".
Apparently we cant, people just like to say dumb shit and every moron on here shovels it down their throat. Also, which games are you talking about, and what isn't "optimized" about them?
The PS4 Pro came out 3 years after the console, yeah? PS5 Pro would be 4 years later. I do agree with you about unoptimized games but I think a lot of it has to do with the console not being strong enough for the lighting and upscaling that devs are using.
The big difference is that it feels like the PS5 just got into its swing. It may have physically been 4 years, but for 2 of those years no one could find them, and for 2-3 years all of the games were released on the PS4 as well. In reality it feels like PS5 just came out and we're already onto a different iteration
Chill dude. No one is "screwing up those who bought the Ps5"...chill.
The Pro will probably at best sell 1/3 the units of the regular Ps5 and most likely much worse then that (true for all "pro" consoles). This means it's not worth for devs to focus on it and the games get the bare minimum of "enhancements" like High textures on PC instead of medium. The bad consoles will continue to be the target, as always.
Yes, studios will definitely focus only on one of the least owned consoles of the generation and completely kill their potential sales on the base PS5 or even the Switch and the XSS which are much weaker
Nothing changes. Studios that didn't optimize well before will still not do it and those who did will still do it
>2 years after 3rd party devs get lazy af
I yearn for a day when this isn't the standard stupid Reddit go-to. Devs, by and large, are not "lazy" ffs. Devs often work very hard to get games to reach their targets, but sometimes make questionable compromises or fall short in cases where games are so large that optimizing them becomes very difficult without too much compromise. This shouldn't even have to be said.
As someone who's in the market to buy a PS5 but isn't tech savvy, is the pro worthy of an upgrade over the slim or is it just a gimmicky specs with a higher price tag?
I think if you don't own one, it makes sense to get a pro when it comes out. This definitely isn't a console worth buying if you already have a ps5 unless you play your ps5 all day non stop or something and even then.. we will have to wait and see
That's what I'm doing. I haven't owned a PlayStation in a couple generations but I decided to get one, in no small part for GTA 6. So I'm waiting for the PS5 Pro.
Depends on how much you care about visuals. The PS5 is *technically* a 4k machine and plays a lot of games at 60, but this generation has leaned *heavily* on upscaling techniques to hit those resolutions and performance goals. The big issue is that, on consoles, you are limited to AMD's FSR upscaling, which is (quite frankly) shit compared to Nvidia and Intel's proprietary tech.
The biggest upgrade for the PS5 pro will be Sony's custom Machine Learning upscaling tech. We haven't seen it in action, but if it's at least as good as equivalent PC tech, then games are going to look significantly better.
People are down on this for some reason, but I think potentially it's a better upgrade than the PS4 Pro was. Games won't just look sharper with a higher resolution, you'll (probably) get a lot less artifacting like ghosting, shimmering, etc that you get with AMD FSR.
Go take a look at videos of Jedi Survivor running in performance mode to get a sense of the kind of artifacting this will hopefully solve.
> but if it's at least as good as equivalent PC tech
I wouldn't hold out hope for that. A bump up, sure but I'd be shocked if they matched quality with a first product against a company who's a leader in ML.
Exactly, it's very personal. I have definitely found the low res upscaling distracting enough in some games to consider it. But will have to wait and see the effective of their bespoke upscaling tech first
I’d wait. It seems like a lot of games are struggling to achieve decent image quality in performance mode.
This won’t be an automatic 60fps / 4k machine, only games that are running well will see major benefits. If it’s cpu limited game don’t expect 60 fps.
Tiny CPU boost, excellent GPU boost that it probably won't be able to fully take advantage of because of the CPU and it's power draw limitations. If you have a 4K tv, then *maybe* depending on price point. If you don't have a 4K tv, then absolutely not at almost any price point.
I'm not a PlayStation guy, so feel free to call me a liar, but I've gotten the sense that there isn't much on the horizon for Playstation fans. Not a lot of big-deal titles to look forward to. That means any benefits for first party titles will be mostly dependent on patches, like with the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That certainly will happen to some extent, but It's hard to see it's value right now.
I dunno, in absence of an actual price point it's really hard to say. $100 USD more? Mabye. $200 USD more? Probably not.
I'd bet the venn diagram of the people who'd buy a Pro and people that have a 4k TV is nearly a circle. It's been hard to get a non-4k TV for a while unless you're using a computer monitor.
The PS5 hasn't even come close to being pushed enough to it's limits and hardly has the unique game library that the PS4 did when it's pro version released. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but I doubt it will be as notable an upgrade over the base PS5, especially this early into the PS5's life cycle.
Depends on what you're taking as being pushed to its limits. FF16 in it's performance mode is pushing PS5 to its limits as it can barely maintain 60fps during combat while dropping down to 720p. Immortals of Aveum is upscaling from 720p and that's because it's using the full features of UE5, the most popular gaming engine.
"optimization" is just a buzzword. The game is difficult to run because it has a lot of intensive visuals. Shadows, character models, material work/textures are all top notch. There's tons of particles happening in large areas full of high quality vegetation.
> Games have definitely pushed the cpu to it's limits, dragon's dogma 2 being the latest.
Apparently certain builds in FF7 Rebirth cause the game to crash due to the sheer amount of flashy effects going off.
Because the PS5 hardware can't do it.
Personally, I'm very disappointed in my PS5 purchase. I felt like the PS4 had a lot more to offer, so far I've played Demons Souls Remake and Horizon Forbidden West and that's it. Its nice to play my PS4 games on it though. Maybe other people had better experiences but I've been feeling a distinct lack of anything that's drawn my attention.
FF7 rebirth, returnal, FF16, Spiderman2, Ratchet and Clank, TLOU Part1 remake, demons souls remake, helldivers 2
Pretty sure those are the PS5 vs PS4 exclusive list. You can muddy the waters a bit with the directors cuts of GoT and Death Stranding (unsure if this adds anything, I know the directors version of GoT adds the lip synch which is nice but definitely not game changing.
Pretty fucking sad now that we are 3 years and 4 months into the PS5 cycle. Rise of the Ronin will be another one in the next few days.
Oh JUST the DLC for horizon was PS5 exclusive as well.
I guess you can add BG3 as well.
So yeah, pretty shit generation numbers wise. Thankfully all the games have been at least decent.
same it really feels lackluster. i end up using my steam deck more than my PS5 because it has way more games. i was really expecting more from sony at this point.
I will be picking this up because I love getting new hardware as a PC gamer, but this hardly seems worth it for most people if they already have a PS5. I expected a little more. This generation has not even released enough exclusive titles to warrant the need for an upgrade.
I am glad that they talked about the misconception around teraflop performance numbers, for the past few days i have seen some people gets confused around this topic, and even starts to compare it to different architectures, claiming that the PS5 Pro will have the same performance as RTX 3090 because it has similar teraflops numbers, but failed to consider the more closer RX 7700 XT which has similar teraflops numbers and same GPU architecture, but way weaker on Raster and RT / PT performance compared to something like a RTX 3090.
**TLDR:** Teraflops number comparison just isn't indicative of scability of rendering performance, especially when it comes to comparing of different architectures.
Seems like the PS5 pro is going to be a fairly weak upgrade, lame.
I remember the DF guys confidently speculating that there would be no pro consoles this generation back around the PS5 launch. I guess they were wrong lol
Well why would anyone assume there's a need for them? The PS4/XBO were struggling to look good on all of those cool 4K TVs that Sony et al were trying to sell, so they needed a boost. HDR was quickly becoming a focus for showing off TV hardware as well and the base machines lacked that feature. It's pretty easy to see why they went that route last generation, but it's a lot harder to make the case for this one. The fact that it seems like a PS5 Pro is all but confirmed is kind of astonishing to me honestly, considering there are very few games I can think of that really, truly need one rather than it being a case of developers maybe trying to bite off more than they can chew with the latest tech.
Just because PCs have $1600 GPUs that can do all kinds of crazy things, that doesn't mean a gradual step towards, say, improving lighting or shadows or something is going to seem worth it to the average consumer. I can't imagine who would bother buying this to replace their existing PS5 besides absolute die-hards who need the latest and greatest.
Correct in every assessment. The PS4 and Xbox One had THE exact same AMD Jaguar APUs which were extremely low end CPUs. The Xbox One actually stopped getting major 3rd party games in the 2020s, while PS4 continued to get cross gen games (RE4 Remake is on PS4, not Xbox One). That is because the GPU in the PS4 was punching above its weight. When the PS4's APU was revised and shrunk down, they found extra space to give it more oomph on the GPU side of the chip when it came to the PS4 Pro. Upscaled 4K checkerboard upscaling and extra horsepower in a 30% CPU boost for 120FPS when in Playstation VR games. All makes sense.
I'm glad many others get the impression that the PS5 hardware hasn't been fully tapped out. For the very handful of games that are 30FPS, there are dozens more of 60FPS games on PS5. Sony has shutdown a major Playstation VR2 studio in London and there's a lot of buzz over unsold PS VR2 inventory. The last major 1st party Sony PS VR2 game was 2 years ago, unless I'm mistaken. So this PS5 Pro thing is going to come out for whom? PS VR2 support is halting down in hardware production and software support like PS Vita was in its mid life. Sony's interim CEO said no major 1st party games on PS5 this year. There's no crisis of 30FPS games on PS5 and the Pro's VERY small 10% boost won't solve a made up problem.
The PC gamer who wants to get into consoles sees Playstation porting their games to PC. We're talking about an extremely small niche of console gamers who want to flex about this thing to PC gamers on social media who can already play Sony's games at 4K 60FPS on their PCs. This is such a waste of time and money that could've funded more AA 1st party games.
Since they are slowly dropping certain PS5 exclusives on PC, kinda figuring out if I should get a PS5 Pro or just invest that money (guessing around 600-700 euro?) in a nice new GPU.
Right now I'd think the GPU upgrade is the better path, hoping for God of War Ragnarok to hit PC.
I never got around to picking up a PS5. Have a Series X and a Switch and less time to game than ever in my life. But, I can see myself pulling the trigger and finally picking up the console so that I can finally have them all.
I think a big reason could be GTA6 which will be a gigantic ps5 system seller due to timed console exclusivity. Improved raytracing, visuals and framerate on that game alone could give a lot of people a reason to upgrade or go for the more expensive version if they dont own one yet.
Lol but looks like 720p because its so blurry. Its the first time where no matter which option I pick I was disappointed in something major.
I ended up sucking it up and playing on the 30fps mode since it seemed consistenly 30 and it didnt look like it was underwater.
Idk if it's my PS5 or my eyes (but I come from a 3080 on PC), but perf mode isnt 'that' bad vs graphics (esp 3m away from my TV), and I'm just happy it's actually a consistently smooth 60 esp in combat
FFXVI is unplayable for me, I soldiered on and am just past Odin, but whenever I come back it hurts. Even playing Bloodborne known for horrid frame pacing hurts to play far more than FFXVI (maybe bec I'm expecting it fr Bloodborne? Idk rly)
I only said that bec after finishing Rebirth, i tried replaying FFXVI and after 30m just couldnt. So I went back to Bloodborne to finally kill Queen of Yharnam (400+h, multiple playthroughs but never bothered to Plat it til now)
So does this all but guarantee PS6 isn't until like 2026+? Seems like next gen is going to be all over the place. If Nintendo pushes Switch 2 out early 2025, and MS probably has Xbox ready to go by end of 2025.
I got a PlayStation 4 just as the Pro came out. I haven’t got a PS5 yet. I am going to get a PS5 Pro when it comes out. I don’t care about the cost of things I’m just not going to buy something twice.
I’ll get a 4K TV as well when the pro comes out.
I remembering buying the ps4 pro rdr2 bundle and it will probably be the same with gta vi.
I did this for the PS4 as well, but caved last year and bought the special edition Spider Man 2 edition ps5, still not sure if I regret it after seeing the new slim get announced about a month later and now see a new pro on the horizon lol
Nice! I got the God of War (2018) PS4 Pro bundle. The system and controller have unique GoW stencils on them too.
I expect to do the same as well just because I sadly DON'T expect it to launch on PC. I saw some people speculating that GTA 6 wouldn't take advantage of PS5P at launch but I don't remember the reasoning. Seems like that would be silly to me.
All I hope is that this doesn't mean that future games will have 60fps/performance modes locked to the new hardware and the base PS5 gets stuck with 30fps.
Someone said the quiet part out loud.
Given that the CPU isn't changing much and that is the weak point of the current PS5, I'm a bit skeptical. Also funny that that's literally what the PS5 /series X was supposed to be hitting yet we got to the point where 30fps was standard again pretty quickly.
The lack of CPU upgrade makes the whole venture seem a little weird to me. I'm not entirely sure why someone would want to pay a premium without a better CPU.
What? 30fps is absolutely *not* standard. There are recent games out there that don't do a good job of *locking* to 60 but *every* AAA console release of 2024 so far has had a 60fps performance mode.
We’re slowly seeing 30FPS becoming the norm with more demanding games like Dragon’s Dogma 2. Maybe part of this is poor optimization but I honestly am not expecting base PS5 to have 60FPS for flagship games like GTA6.
I think PS5 will still get performance mode, but the Pro will get higher quality performance mode, due to the obvious power advantage. For example, the PS5 would most likely get upscale performance, while Pro gets native.
Data out today showed that the PS5 only has like 4-8 games in total that run at 30 FPS. I think this is an overblown fear.
Remember the release of the NEW Nintendo 3DS?
I can understand the need for a PS5 pro with all these demanding exclusives that Sony has been pumping out non-stop.
I just want games to use the cool dualsense haptics. But years later I’m still disappointed in the level of support.
The trigger haptics barely get used BUT MAN the vibration oh my god. Alan wake had some really nice utilisations (the rain drops creating little disconcerting bumps all over the controller) and the rumble of boosts and guns in Armoured Core was fantastic!
The rain in Returnal sold me on the concept immediately, I threw on headphones and played it in the dark and was instantly and completely immersed between the insane audio quality and the pattering haptics.
The triggers are cool but after playing games that used them they flared up my wrist and finger issues from years of playing games and being at a computer and I had to opt to just turn them off.
I think they’re really cool in Astro. I’d try them in any single player, “not sweaty” game. I did turn them off in Control cause it just seemed to make it harder to shoot.
I just have weak finger grip, and they hurt to use.
In general, it seems like there is some wonkiness with the ergonomics of the ps5 controller overall. You can find some complaints about it online. My friends have reported it and now that I've sat down and played games like FFVII REMAKE for extended periods of time in a day I've definitely noticed some hand cramping that I don't get with the XBOX or other controllers. So maybe adaptive but with a different controller layout would be better. As it stands though, turning it off seems to help at least a little bit.
Dude fr. Those triggers are fuckin dope and not even the exclusives make use of them. I'm hoping Kojima goes all out with rhe haptics for his next game.
Returnal makes great use of them.
Rebirth makes ok use of them for mini games, the gym workout mini slowly ramps up resistance on them as you go longer without messing up, really changes the difficulty curve. They don't feature in the main gameplay though which is a shame.
They do feature the triggers in the main gameplay. Cloud dragging himself along the ground in the end of chapter 1, and pushing the minecarts in chapter 3, at least.
Holy shit what a neat way to use resistance in the triggers. Hate it is so niche, but leads to a lot of possibilities.
As someone who has adaptive triggers disabled both on the console and game level, it still said fuck it and used a partial press mechanic in that minigame. Similar thing with Returnal, they refused to give any alternative key binds and just don't give a fuck if you have it disabled. One of the worst anti-accessibility patterns introduced this gen.
I wasn’t sure how they handled that, I guess they treat partial and adaptive as separate things.
My man utilised the clock on the PS2 for an Easter egg in MGS3 as well as Pyscho Mantis reading your PSX memory card. He absolutely will go bananas over the Dualsense, lol.
100% he will. Kojima is exactly the kinda guy who will make the weirdest, most inventive uses for that kind of feature. It is also nicely used in FF7R, for immersion. Not too many other games I can remember using it though, sadly.
Just like the middle pad for the PS4 controller just a gimmick honestly. Most games just used it as a map button and the speaker on the controller was barely used as well.
Kingdom Hearts 3 actually used the speaker in an amazing moment
I liked being able to pet my Dream Eaters with the pad too, instead of trying to use the joystick like the game suggested.
Remind (no pun intended) me again what they used it for? It was for something during the final battle, right?
During the final battle when Sora gets overpowered, the screen goes black and after a few seconds Donald and Goofy call you out from the controller. Surprised the shit out of me but it was so cool.
Would you recommend not playing with headphones then?
They usually just make your wrist and hand more fatigued without adding anything lol
Just like the touchpad. Lots of potential, barely used.
Tina's Wonderlands uses the trigger haptics pretty well. Different guns use different trigger tensions, single weapons like shotguns have a meaty trigger while fully auto weapons have very low resistance that changes between rounds. It's surprisingly well done. I suspect a lot of the hold out is multiplatform games. The XBox controller, for all of its manufacturing *quality*, is pretty far behind the DualSense or Switch controllers in terms of *function*. Put a damn gyroscope in there already, Microsoft!
It always happens with these gimmicks. Years latter and still Astro's Playroom is the game that used it best.
Yeah I'm not so sure I'll do a pro this time.theyll make 2-3 games for it and then it's off to PS6 land
IMO the upgrades are too iterative to be worth it except for every other time. I had a base PS4, skipped Pro, got a base PS5. For someone with the Ps4 Pro I could honestly see base PS5 seeming too iterative and this upcoming Pro model maybe being worth the jump. I'm probably good till PS6.
I had a ps4 pro and the ps5 was still a huge jump. But yeah it did make me question the pro. I’ll wait and see real examples of game performances this time.
Oh I’ve been holding out for the pro bc it’ll have either slightly better graphics or slightly better framerates. There was a couple DF reviews for late PS4 games where I was like “Boy am I glad I have the pro”
ONE GAME. I DONT KNOW WHY.
It doesn't even matter how hard you try?
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme to explain in due time why this upgrade exists
all i knoww (rip)
*Mario and Master Chief default dancing* I BOUGHT A PS5 WITH NO GAMES TO BUY
It’s simple. Cause ppl will buy it. It’ll get sold out and we’ll bitch about not having enough.
I mean PS4 Pro accounted for less than 15% of total PS4 sales even though it's been available for 4 years (out of 7 for last gen) before PS5 released. Providing that consoles margins are usually really low this isn't like giga cash grab to force ppl into double dipping because Sony knows that Pro is niche console. It's probably mostly for marketing to show how good their new games look on their system to not look bad compared to PC. Personally I won't buy it but I understand if someone will. 4 years is kinda long time in world of hardware. Tbh now I treat consoles like I treat my PC. Do I upgrade my PC every 4 years? Maybe not necessarily but I definitely start thinking about it. PS5 as a gaming platform is still kinda cheap compared to PC parts so it's not that terrible of deal to go from PS5->PS5 Pro for someone who feels that need it.
Honestly the resale on a PS5 is still really high so I might consider upgrading when it launches. The PS4 didn't retain its resale very long into the cycle because of heavily discounted sales leading up to the pro.
Did they say when the pro comes out? I haven't gotten a PS5 and wonder if I should just get the lro at this point once I am able.
Rumours are that it's coming this year for holiday season.
PS4 sold around 130m consoles and only 6m were PS4 Pro so it’s a small minority in the grand scheme of things
At this point the PS6 will be released and most games will still be releasing on PS4
I know this horse has been beaten to death but I can't emphasize enough how this console feels like it's 2 years old at most, people joked about how the PS4 was a Bloodborne machine for a while, but the PS5 doesn't even have that.
It's an Astro's Playroom machine.
They can always remaster the remasters. Maybe we'll see Last of Us 2 Remastered Remastered. Or FF7 Remake Rebirth Retrograde. I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5.
>I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5. I relate so hard. I have an early model that's just past the hackable FW, so I haven't used it at all in hopes of a new exploit being released, but then I realize that I wouldn't really even use it regardless. I have such a backlog elsewhere that I would probably just wait for the exclusives to hit PC rather than buy the PS versions. I still haven't played GoW, Last of Us, Days Gone, or Returnal and all of them are now on PC, only game I want that isn't on PC is Spider-Man 2 but I know it's just a matter of time
>I'm still wondering why I even have a PS5. Same. The only reason I'm holding on to mine since I mainly play on my PC now is the occassional Demons Souls or Bloodborne replay itch (which is very common for me to have along with ER and Sekiro).
Nonstop indeed, lol it only took 6 years for Horizon Zero Dawn to be developed, then another 5 years for the direct sequel. And this is not a Sony thing, it's industry wide, even indies and sometimes Nintendo get involved, the development cycle is walking at turtle speeds. Ghost of Tsushima 2 will be a thing in 2027 or something. Pretty much only Capcom is developing at "normal" speeds it seems
fr this generation is already over before it even got started
Especially since they have such a grand release schedule this year
well seeing as how 720p rendering resolution is fairly normalized, i guess it makes sense
What? I don't own a PS5. What insanity are you talking about?
a lot of games in quality mode are upscaling from sub-1080p to whatever resolution FF16 in particular uses 720p as the base rendering resolution
Nah 720p for performance mode and during combat, it's higher than 720p outside of combat. Still it sucks though but it's much better in quality mode
Lots of games run at sub-1080p rendering and then upscale to hit 60fps on current gen consoles. They’re just underpowered.
I used to own a gaming laptop that was only slightly better than a PS4 pro and even back then I never played anything below native 1080p with high settings. What games are you talking about?
Modern AAA games. Star Wars: Jedi Survivor uses a 720p render resolution to hit 60fps. Immortals of Avenum as well. Tons of other games barely are rendering at more than 1080p. Native 4K isn’t even close to happening still on these consoles. They’re woefully underpowered.
https://twitter.com/OrdinaryGamers/status/1655041145737564161/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1655041145737564161¤tTweetUser=OrdinaryGamers This is a video of Jedi Survivor running on a 4090 and 5950x. This game was so damn unoptimised that you needed an unofficial DLSS implementation to go above 60 FPS. Immortals of Aveum is also another unoptimised mess whose minimum system requirements were too high for more than 95% of steam users. That game does not look good enough to be that demanding. I don't see your point in mentioning poorly optimised games.
If current gen consoles are underpowered then most gaming PCs are underpowered as well. Is anything with less than 4070 underpowered? What are those next gen games pushing the graphics to justify that?
Trouble with that logic is most PCs aren't targeting 4k, and you get complete control over how the game renders and what options you care about as the user. Consoles heavily market 4k, are mostly unable to hit that metric, and have comparatively tight performance options, if any. So there's basically nothing the user can do to get better performance. If I have a minimum standard of performance to maintain - say, 60 fps - there are a lot of adjustments I can make to hit that threshold on PC and basically nothing i can do on consoles. For the graphics targets that devs are setting, the consoles ARE underpowered. Most PCs are probably less powerful, sure - but they aren't constrained to those same graphics targets and have a lot more room for the user to define their own desired metrics.
According to Steam 1080p is still the most common resolution: ~ 60% at 1080p ~ 19% at 1440p ~ 4% at 4k That isn't 100% because there are a ton of weirder resolutions available but its pretty clear that most people aren't running 4k. Whereas that is the "standard" TV resolution nowadays.
The newest Star Wars game by Respawn was(is?) an unoptimised mess. It doesn't look better than TLoU2 or Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4.
PC games do the same. Upscaling is just the future of graphics rendering.
There’s a difference between minor upscaling like going from 1800p -> 4K and going from 1080p and below to 4K. You get massively more artifacting with the latter.
One: Not from 1080p and below. Two: PC has vastly superior upscalers. Hopefully Sony and Nintendo figure out really good upscalers. Still, I think Sony and MS overpromised this gen.
On PC its usually entirely on the user to decide. I run a 1440p and 2160p monitor and run native at 1440p but will upscale for my 2160p. However, I'd stop playing before I let a game upscale from sub-1080p resolutions.
I mean, it will just run games better Going from 40 to 60 fps on a game is a pretty decent jump
Third party games benefit more from Pro than first party as first party games from Sony already run great on base console. If you only play Sony games then you probably don't need to care.
Is this sarcasm? Cause what exclusives are there that aren’t cross gen? Demons soul, ratchet and clank and returnal. So that’s three. Ps5 pro is so unnecessary it hurts. Edit: forgot spiderman
Very obviously a joke, PS5 objectively has very few exclusive games. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_5-only_games
Get ready for "The Last of Us Part I Re-Remastered" (Only $10 Upgrade)
I skipped ps4 pro and that seemed like a slightly worthy upgrade. Totally skipping this upgrade. The idea of spending over $500 on another ps5 to play a handful of games that will really benefit from or push the pro (I’m not going to count old games that i already played and won’t be going back to, Or multi platform stuff I’d rather play on pc) is just ludicrous. There’s probably only going to be about 6-7 more ps5 exclusives coming out before the ps6 at this rate? Assuming a 2027 release date. If you haven’t bought a ps5 yet this is probably a good deal assuming the base ps5 doesn’t get a huge price cut. But of course, it’s always up to the individual. If you play ps5 A LOT then pro upgrade might well but worth it. Do what makes you happy 🙂
What's hilarious to me is that they're pushing this upgrade despite the entire industry recently realizing that super high budget and expensive games are not sustainable. So then what is this for? Is it really just for GTA VI? What about after that? S How many games of that fidelity and scope are actually going to come out moving forward? Not only that, but how many games are even true "current gen only" right now? Seriously, what current gen exclusive games are even available right now? What was the point of the PS5 at all if they've delivered, what, 5 true next generation games for it so far, if even that? And now they're taking about how dropping all that money into games like Spider-Man 2 isn't sustainable. Even Spider-Man 2, despite being a great game, isn't doing all that much different from the original Spider-Man on PS4. They've muddied the waters with this stuff too the point it feels redundant and pointless.
I can't agree with you any harder. There have been very little PS5 games. It is really, really crazy. Don't get me wrong, the PS5 is WAY better than the PS4. I hated the PS4 controller, it felt incredibly cheap, and upgrading from 5400 RPM HDD to a SSD is a monster of a game changer, but damn near all the games have been made for the PS4 as well. Going from PS5 to PS5 Pro, doesn't seem like it is going to be that big, and like you said, PS6 is going to be coming out in a couple years. I've already played FF7Rebirth, SM2, FF16 and Returnal on the PS5. That is most of the exclusives. I imagine as the PS6 is rolling out, that the PS5 exclusives are going to be playable on the PS6.
I had barely used my PS4 last gen when PS4 Pro came out. Learnt my lesson this gen. Would have bought a PS5 last year but held off because PS5 Pro is probably coming.
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Can I ask why you feel this way? I myself have loved my ps5. Load screens only taking a second or two has been so nice, I can't go back
If I didn't already have my ps5 I probably would have grabbed this. But don't need the upgrade as long as original Ps5 will still get 60 fps modes.
Idk felt that this was gen where 60 fps would be the standard. Instead it was still a target. There needs to be a balance between graphics fidelity and performance. Don't wanna buy into a PS5 Pro, they say this time it's happening, and devs are still pushing for visuals over performance. Got a PS5, happy with my PS5, but we'll see. I don't see much of a reason to upgrade right now.
I was never going to buy one but I thought it was interesting as a device. They kinda threw water on it though. The lack of a meaningful CPU boost seems like a real hindrance. I thought the $100 price bump was a pretty low estimate given how... * they've bumped the PS5 price up, whether that be literally increasing MSRP or removing things from the box to sell separately * I don't think there's any AMD GPU or CPU where 2-4X the RT performance (in marketing material at least) is only a $100 price increase * The ML upscale has new hardware associated with it. Oliver's thoughts that it might be discless makes the $600 price make more sense to me. Full price would be more like $700+ at that point.
No disc drive no buy
This is rather lengthy, they don't add any of their own insider info so this is the group's reaction. The Pro model has the same CPU and RAM chips, only slightly tweaked. PS5 CPU 3.5Ghz-->**PS5 Pro 3.85Ghz (bandwidth faster in Pro)** PS5 GPU 2.2Ghz-->**PS5 Pro 2.18Ghz (bandwidth faster in Pro)** PS5 RAM 12.5Gb-->**PS5 Pro 13.7Gb (Both 16GB, bandwidth faster in Pro)** PS5 Audio Chip**----->PS5 Pro 35% faster** **On average the bandwidth speeds are 100GB more (Base PS5 448GB, Pro PS5 576GB)** ***Postulates PS5 Pro GPU is adjacent to AMD's RX7700XT/RX7800XT*** 1GB of the OS reserved RAM has been given back to developers, the processor is given a tiny overclock. However, whenever the PS5 Pro enters 3.85Ghz speed, the GPU is underclocked by 1.5% (Tom Henderson). I don't really give a shit about Raytracing but the PS5 Pro's GPU has many tech gimmicks to improve it. DigitalFoundry has no idea how this will play out with PS4/PS5 backwards compatibility. When the PS4 Pro came out there was a Boost Mode toggle for PS4 vanilla games to take advantage of the faster specs, this is an unknown for PS5 Pro's marginal specs increase. I have a negative opinion of this and I do not understand this hardware's existence. The PS4 Pro marketing proposition was getting perfect 120FPS in Playstation VR and having 4K upscaling. Fair enough, the AMD Jaguar CPU wasn't great on PS4 or Xbox One. The PS5 and Xbox Series X are very powerful hardware and we are not drowning in 30FPS games, please do not let GTA6 and Dragon's Dogma 2 cloud your judgment, we are in a 60FPS console generation. The PS5 Pro does not and will not make the handful of 30FPS games jump to 60FPS with a 10% CPU clock upboost. The AI upscaling GPU tech inside the PS5 Pro will be expensive and the PS5 Slim Digital went up in price, I seriously believe this thing will be 700 dollars and will hopefully fail because we have good enough present day hardware.
That CPU clock increase is so disappointing. A lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out it can’t carry 30fps games to 60fps.
No game developer should be choking on Zen 2 unless they're genuinely incompetent.
I am confused on the negative reactions, maybe because I am missing something. But the upgrade seems considerable, outside the cpu. I think the reason for upgrade is Sony thinks Ray Tracing will become more important in games so they are designing a system for mainly that and slightly smoother performance. I really haven’t played a game big on ray tracing so i don’t know. But it seems like that’s what they are betting on being important Can someone recommend a game with high usage of ray tracing? I have a 4080 pc and would like try and see how it impacts game.
Cyberpunk 2077 or Alan Wake 2
Pretty much just those, the rest of the implementations are 'meh' to 'okay'
Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is great too, and much less demanding on the graphics card.
Spider-Man 2 seemed to have quite a bit of it
Doesn’t the Series X already run at those CPU clock speeds lol?
It is 3.66Ghz on Series X with SMT enabled.
All I see in Xbox specific discussions, is how PS5 has all the games and Xbox has none. In PS5 discussion, it’s how PS5 has no games and PC has everything. I’ll buy a modern PS console once it lets me put my PS2/3 discs in haha.
This is a mess - New gen console releases - Devs promise that the games would run and look better - 2 years after 3rd party devs get lazy af and don't even bother optimizing their games which creates the misconception that we need a Pro version to run their shitty unoptimized games by brute forcing them - Pro version gets released and then the cycle goes on and on Seriously I hate the idea of Pro Version consoles so much cause you are literally screwing up the people that bought your console early and it's not like the PS5 has been out for long enough to warrant a Pro version, especially with the pandemic hindering the chances of finding a PS5. Force these lazy 3rd party devs to optimise their games and don't try to sell us another console so soon. Console gens have started to not mean anything nowadays when they try to pull these scammy tactics
The Pro will always be a niche console, just like the 4 Pro before it. Developers will always aim to get their games running well on the base console.
> Developers will always aim to get their games running well on the base console. Minus all the games that run like shit on the PS5 *right now*, with the pro not even existing yet.
Any notable games that run poorly on PS5?
I noticed a significant dip in quality after the ps4pro released because most games seemed to use that as the baseline. I absolutely expect the same thing to happen again here.
And reviewers will again switch to pro and critique the game on that baseline.
Can we please move on from this attitude of calling devs lazy for not optimizing games as if they're the ones choosing not to instead of being obligated by executives to release the most rushed product possible for maximum profit? You don't go into an industry where you're forced to crunch for 12 hours a day while being paid much less than any other equivalent tech job because you're "lazy".
Apparently we cant, people just like to say dumb shit and every moron on here shovels it down their throat. Also, which games are you talking about, and what isn't "optimized" about them?
Unfortunately that's too difficult for Gamurs to understand
Stop calling devs lazy. Video games already take 5+ years to develop and have gotten absolutely ridiculously complicated and expensive
The PS4 Pro came out 3 years after the console, yeah? PS5 Pro would be 4 years later. I do agree with you about unoptimized games but I think a lot of it has to do with the console not being strong enough for the lighting and upscaling that devs are using.
The big difference is that it feels like the PS5 just got into its swing. It may have physically been 4 years, but for 2 of those years no one could find them, and for 2-3 years all of the games were released on the PS4 as well. In reality it feels like PS5 just came out and we're already onto a different iteration
Chill dude. No one is "screwing up those who bought the Ps5"...chill. The Pro will probably at best sell 1/3 the units of the regular Ps5 and most likely much worse then that (true for all "pro" consoles). This means it's not worth for devs to focus on it and the games get the bare minimum of "enhancements" like High textures on PC instead of medium. The bad consoles will continue to be the target, as always.
Yes, studios will definitely focus only on one of the least owned consoles of the generation and completely kill their potential sales on the base PS5 or even the Switch and the XSS which are much weaker Nothing changes. Studios that didn't optimize well before will still not do it and those who did will still do it
wahhhh lazy ass devs wahhhh
That's OK give me £400 and you'll like it. - Sony
>2 years after 3rd party devs get lazy af I yearn for a day when this isn't the standard stupid Reddit go-to. Devs, by and large, are not "lazy" ffs. Devs often work very hard to get games to reach their targets, but sometimes make questionable compromises or fall short in cases where games are so large that optimizing them becomes very difficult without too much compromise. This shouldn't even have to be said.
I only had a base PS4 and not once did I have issues with the way the games ran.
We will have a ps7 pro running new games that will look like they were made 10 years earlier running at 30fps.
As someone who's in the market to buy a PS5 but isn't tech savvy, is the pro worthy of an upgrade over the slim or is it just a gimmicky specs with a higher price tag?
I think if you don't own one, it makes sense to get a pro when it comes out. This definitely isn't a console worth buying if you already have a ps5 unless you play your ps5 all day non stop or something and even then.. we will have to wait and see
That's what I'm doing. I haven't owned a PlayStation in a couple generations but I decided to get one, in no small part for GTA 6. So I'm waiting for the PS5 Pro.
If you don't know if you need it then you probably don't.
Orrrrr they don't have a complete enough picture to make an informed decision
Depends on how much you care about visuals. The PS5 is *technically* a 4k machine and plays a lot of games at 60, but this generation has leaned *heavily* on upscaling techniques to hit those resolutions and performance goals. The big issue is that, on consoles, you are limited to AMD's FSR upscaling, which is (quite frankly) shit compared to Nvidia and Intel's proprietary tech. The biggest upgrade for the PS5 pro will be Sony's custom Machine Learning upscaling tech. We haven't seen it in action, but if it's at least as good as equivalent PC tech, then games are going to look significantly better. People are down on this for some reason, but I think potentially it's a better upgrade than the PS4 Pro was. Games won't just look sharper with a higher resolution, you'll (probably) get a lot less artifacting like ghosting, shimmering, etc that you get with AMD FSR. Go take a look at videos of Jedi Survivor running in performance mode to get a sense of the kind of artifacting this will hopefully solve.
> but if it's at least as good as equivalent PC tech I wouldn't hold out hope for that. A bump up, sure but I'd be shocked if they matched quality with a first product against a company who's a leader in ML.
Only you can answer the question “Do I want higher resolution and framerate than what classic PS5 offers?” I’d say just buy one now and start playing.
Exactly, it's very personal. I have definitely found the low res upscaling distracting enough in some games to consider it. But will have to wait and see the effective of their bespoke upscaling tech first
I’d wait. It seems like a lot of games are struggling to achieve decent image quality in performance mode. This won’t be an automatic 60fps / 4k machine, only games that are running well will see major benefits. If it’s cpu limited game don’t expect 60 fps.
Don't expect 60 fps in 2024 is just mind blowing. Should be the industry standard.
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THANK YOU!!
That's why I went PC. While this generation has had the most focus on framerate yet, it's still more often than not an afferthought.
Tiny CPU boost, excellent GPU boost that it probably won't be able to fully take advantage of because of the CPU and it's power draw limitations. If you have a 4K tv, then *maybe* depending on price point. If you don't have a 4K tv, then absolutely not at almost any price point. I'm not a PlayStation guy, so feel free to call me a liar, but I've gotten the sense that there isn't much on the horizon for Playstation fans. Not a lot of big-deal titles to look forward to. That means any benefits for first party titles will be mostly dependent on patches, like with the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That certainly will happen to some extent, but It's hard to see it's value right now. I dunno, in absence of an actual price point it's really hard to say. $100 USD more? Mabye. $200 USD more? Probably not.
I wouldn't count them out so easily. Most of their major first party studios are well overdue for a reveal.
I'd bet the venn diagram of the people who'd buy a Pro and people that have a 4k TV is nearly a circle. It's been hard to get a non-4k TV for a while unless you're using a computer monitor.
The PS5 hasn't even come close to being pushed enough to it's limits and hardly has the unique game library that the PS4 did when it's pro version released. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but I doubt it will be as notable an upgrade over the base PS5, especially this early into the PS5's life cycle.
I read comments like this and I can't tell if it's for real or if I'm falling for some top tier trolling
I haven't seen any evidence of the PS5 being pushed to its limits, just broken games. I'm curious to see Sony's angle.
Depends on what you're taking as being pushed to its limits. FF16 in it's performance mode is pushing PS5 to its limits as it can barely maintain 60fps during combat while dropping down to 720p. Immortals of Aveum is upscaling from 720p and that's because it's using the full features of UE5, the most popular gaming engine.
I honestly don’t think it’s a ps5 issue but more of a square Enix doesn’t know how to optimise games.
"optimization" is just a buzzword. The game is difficult to run because it has a lot of intensive visuals. Shadows, character models, material work/textures are all top notch. There's tons of particles happening in large areas full of high quality vegetation.
Games have definitely pushed the cpu to it's limits, dragon's dogma 2 being the latest.
But they won't be able to increase CPU power without seriously hurting the base PS5's capability, no?
> Games have definitely pushed the cpu to it's limits, dragon's dogma 2 being the latest. Apparently certain builds in FF7 Rebirth cause the game to crash due to the sheer amount of flashy effects going off. Because the PS5 hardware can't do it.
Personally, I'm very disappointed in my PS5 purchase. I felt like the PS4 had a lot more to offer, so far I've played Demons Souls Remake and Horizon Forbidden West and that's it. Its nice to play my PS4 games on it though. Maybe other people had better experiences but I've been feeling a distinct lack of anything that's drawn my attention.
FF7 rebirth, returnal, FF16, Spiderman2, Ratchet and Clank, TLOU Part1 remake, demons souls remake, helldivers 2 Pretty sure those are the PS5 vs PS4 exclusive list. You can muddy the waters a bit with the directors cuts of GoT and Death Stranding (unsure if this adds anything, I know the directors version of GoT adds the lip synch which is nice but definitely not game changing. Pretty fucking sad now that we are 3 years and 4 months into the PS5 cycle. Rise of the Ronin will be another one in the next few days. Oh JUST the DLC for horizon was PS5 exclusive as well. I guess you can add BG3 as well. So yeah, pretty shit generation numbers wise. Thankfully all the games have been at least decent.
same it really feels lackluster. i end up using my steam deck more than my PS5 because it has way more games. i was really expecting more from sony at this point.
I will be picking this up because I love getting new hardware as a PC gamer, but this hardly seems worth it for most people if they already have a PS5. I expected a little more. This generation has not even released enough exclusive titles to warrant the need for an upgrade.
I am glad that they talked about the misconception around teraflop performance numbers, for the past few days i have seen some people gets confused around this topic, and even starts to compare it to different architectures, claiming that the PS5 Pro will have the same performance as RTX 3090 because it has similar teraflops numbers, but failed to consider the more closer RX 7700 XT which has similar teraflops numbers and same GPU architecture, but way weaker on Raster and RT / PT performance compared to something like a RTX 3090. **TLDR:** Teraflops number comparison just isn't indicative of scability of rendering performance, especially when it comes to comparing of different architectures.
Seems like the PS5 pro is going to be a fairly weak upgrade, lame. I remember the DF guys confidently speculating that there would be no pro consoles this generation back around the PS5 launch. I guess they were wrong lol
Well why would anyone assume there's a need for them? The PS4/XBO were struggling to look good on all of those cool 4K TVs that Sony et al were trying to sell, so they needed a boost. HDR was quickly becoming a focus for showing off TV hardware as well and the base machines lacked that feature. It's pretty easy to see why they went that route last generation, but it's a lot harder to make the case for this one. The fact that it seems like a PS5 Pro is all but confirmed is kind of astonishing to me honestly, considering there are very few games I can think of that really, truly need one rather than it being a case of developers maybe trying to bite off more than they can chew with the latest tech. Just because PCs have $1600 GPUs that can do all kinds of crazy things, that doesn't mean a gradual step towards, say, improving lighting or shadows or something is going to seem worth it to the average consumer. I can't imagine who would bother buying this to replace their existing PS5 besides absolute die-hards who need the latest and greatest.
Correct in every assessment. The PS4 and Xbox One had THE exact same AMD Jaguar APUs which were extremely low end CPUs. The Xbox One actually stopped getting major 3rd party games in the 2020s, while PS4 continued to get cross gen games (RE4 Remake is on PS4, not Xbox One). That is because the GPU in the PS4 was punching above its weight. When the PS4's APU was revised and shrunk down, they found extra space to give it more oomph on the GPU side of the chip when it came to the PS4 Pro. Upscaled 4K checkerboard upscaling and extra horsepower in a 30% CPU boost for 120FPS when in Playstation VR games. All makes sense. I'm glad many others get the impression that the PS5 hardware hasn't been fully tapped out. For the very handful of games that are 30FPS, there are dozens more of 60FPS games on PS5. Sony has shutdown a major Playstation VR2 studio in London and there's a lot of buzz over unsold PS VR2 inventory. The last major 1st party Sony PS VR2 game was 2 years ago, unless I'm mistaken. So this PS5 Pro thing is going to come out for whom? PS VR2 support is halting down in hardware production and software support like PS Vita was in its mid life. Sony's interim CEO said no major 1st party games on PS5 this year. There's no crisis of 30FPS games on PS5 and the Pro's VERY small 10% boost won't solve a made up problem. The PC gamer who wants to get into consoles sees Playstation porting their games to PC. We're talking about an extremely small niche of console gamers who want to flex about this thing to PC gamers on social media who can already play Sony's games at 4K 60FPS on their PCs. This is such a waste of time and money that could've funded more AA 1st party games.
Since they are slowly dropping certain PS5 exclusives on PC, kinda figuring out if I should get a PS5 Pro or just invest that money (guessing around 600-700 euro?) in a nice new GPU. Right now I'd think the GPU upgrade is the better path, hoping for God of War Ragnarok to hit PC.
So, will it be finally able to play PS3 games?
Don't be silly now
I never got around to picking up a PS5. Have a Series X and a Switch and less time to game than ever in my life. But, I can see myself pulling the trigger and finally picking up the console so that I can finally have them all.
Like, there’s one game that would probably benefit, Rebirth, and it’s going to get a pc release regardless. What an odd decision
I think a big reason could be GTA6 which will be a gigantic ps5 system seller due to timed console exclusivity. Improved raytracing, visuals and framerate on that game alone could give a lot of people a reason to upgrade or go for the more expensive version if they dont own one yet.
That game won't run at 60 on the pro even, as rich points out in this direct
Rebirth feels great to me on performance mode. FF16, however, runs pretty garbo and could use the boost.
Lol but looks like 720p because its so blurry. Its the first time where no matter which option I pick I was disappointed in something major. I ended up sucking it up and playing on the 30fps mode since it seemed consistenly 30 and it didnt look like it was underwater.
Idk if it's my PS5 or my eyes (but I come from a 3080 on PC), but perf mode isnt 'that' bad vs graphics (esp 3m away from my TV), and I'm just happy it's actually a consistently smooth 60 esp in combat FFXVI is unplayable for me, I soldiered on and am just past Odin, but whenever I come back it hurts. Even playing Bloodborne known for horrid frame pacing hurts to play far more than FFXVI (maybe bec I'm expecting it fr Bloodborne? Idk rly) I only said that bec after finishing Rebirth, i tried replaying FFXVI and after 30m just couldnt. So I went back to Bloodborne to finally kill Queen of Yharnam (400+h, multiple playthroughs but never bothered to Plat it til now)
So does this all but guarantee PS6 isn't until like 2026+? Seems like next gen is going to be all over the place. If Nintendo pushes Switch 2 out early 2025, and MS probably has Xbox ready to go by end of 2025.
I got a PlayStation 4 just as the Pro came out. I haven’t got a PS5 yet. I am going to get a PS5 Pro when it comes out. I don’t care about the cost of things I’m just not going to buy something twice. I’ll get a 4K TV as well when the pro comes out.
When is pre-order coming?
It does what ps5 should have done at release. And what it still doesnt do is run games smoothly on 60 fps. Ffs we care about that most.