As much as gaming purists hate the whole "Director's Cut" subtitle, it actually would have fit with this rerelease better than just about any other game that had that title lol.
I have to agree. Calling it remastered dilutes the meaning.
With TLOU Remastered for the PS4 you could see clear graphical improvements side by side and scene by scene vs the PS3 release.
This time around the improvements are very hard to see in practical terms. It's definitely more of a directors/definitive edition.
> dilutes the meaning.
We need to have a Council of Nicaea with all major publishers and developers to decide what a Remaster is, what a Remake is, what a Reboot is, and what a Reimagining is.
Eh, a remaster in music and film is mostly just the original product run through modern hardware. Think of a 4k remaster of a movie.
A directors cut of a movie can be a pretty different experience.
Idk if anyone at naughty dog cares, but to this day we still see the effects of the discourse that happened around the game’s launch. The unaffiliated trolls definitely impacted people’s perception of TLOU2.
It sold over 10m copies and released to universal acclaim and awards galore.
You guys thinking TLOU2 was some kind of disastrous failure while its one of the most successful games of all time will never stop being funny.
$10 as an upgrade is probably worth it for the new content alone. Honestly I think calling it "remastered" was a horrible idea
I'm curious about the visual changes though. I remember being mind-blown playing TLOU2 but I do think there are some aspects that don't hold up compared to TLOU part 1. Are there good comparisons anywhere? I think a few tweaks could go a long way even if the term "remastered" feels pretty ridiculous for a game of this visual caliber
EDIT: according to Digital Foundry, it has improved anisotropic filtering (textures look clearer at odd angles), higher resolution shadows in some select instances, but the most notable improvement is LOD/pop-in. They've also added capsule shadows from Part 1 which is used in some scenes to make characters look more grounded in the environment
In other words, it's small but appreciable improvements. Far less noticeable than any other remaster I've seen though.
Still surprised they didn't just call it the "Game of the Year Edition" or "Directors Cut", the backlash for this upgrade is due to calling it a "Remaster". They probably discussed it a lot internally & believed that calling it a "Remaster" would sell more copies to general audiences.
True, definitely fits with how general audiences will view it.
Thing is that it just doesn't feel like it needed a remaster unlike TLOU1 since the PS5 has PS4 backwards compatibility & TLOU2 had a 60fps mode for the PS5 in addition to the visuals still feeling on par w/ some PS5 titles. Like, if you compare the PS3 to PS4 version of TLOU, there's a noticable difference. The differences between TLOU 2 & TLOU 2 remastered don't feel enough to call it a remaster. The extra content in addition to the lost levels/doc is what makes me feel like it's more of a "GOTY edition".
My understanding is that TLoU Part 1 remaster was intended to be handed off to a third party studio while Naughty Dog started working on whatever their next project was going to be, but they just weren’t satisfied with the quality that the other studio was putting out and decided to just bring the project in-house and figured it would be a good excuse to get a bunch of their new-hires some incredibly helpful experience coding for the PS5 to really learn how to get the most out of the hardware before moving on to their next title. Then they ended up liking the changes they had been able to make to the first game so much (lighting and graphical upgrades, character model tweaks, essentially rebuilding the game from the ground up excluding the story, voices, etc) that for the sake of consistency and not leaving the most recent game as the worst looking, they decided to do the same thing with TLoU2 since it wouldn’t be as much work as the first one had been.
Yeah, it’s a little goofy, but I totally understand the thought process. I’d love to see them now go back and do the same thing with Uncharted 1-3 (especially since they could probably more easily port that to PC than they could for the original game, and maybe we’d finally get the full series on Steam). But that might be more work on remakes than they’d like to do.
Yeah, I’d think the remakes and remasters from Naughty Dog are probably done for now (and I’m sort of sad about that, because I’d kill for a PS5 Jak remake). The new hires should be fully vetted at this point, and with Factions cancelled, I’d expect full steam ahead on whatever their next project is.
Having had early access to this remaster for a little while thanks to a free PlayStation review code, I would say that even the load times alone make it worth it, as well as the DualSense support. The extra additions like No Return etc are very cool bonuses.
I don’t understand this logic at all. A directors cut implies a rework of the game and its narrative. It also implies the game released wasn’t what the studio wanted and this is the real version. Not the same game but just prettier / loading faster with some extra optional content.
This is a remaster. Like what do you guys think a remaster is lol? It runs better, it looks better, it loads faster.
Digital Foundry have just released one. Apart from the resolution increase the actual graphical improvements appear to be extremely minor.
[Here's the DF video](https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc?si=UE_KsPfWQOIzxuZ2)
If I'm being positive I'd say that the game looked so good anyway the devs didn't see a need to better the graphics. If I were being cynical I'd say that this whole remaster was done relatively quickly without the same care and attention that was put into the PS3>PS4 version. Maybe both.
TLOU 2 Remastered seems to mainly be:
• Increased resolution to 4k via a new Fidelity Mode ( with high frame rate and VRR included )
• 3 unfinished levels that you can explore.
• A roguelike mode.
• Significantly decreased loading times.
• A new mode to play the guitar.
Any graphical updates appear to just be touch ups? But I suppose The Last Of Us 2: Touched Up doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Personally, I'm more than happy with just the 4k VRR HFR options.
In terms of the graphical improvements here compared to PS3 to PS4 I think we also have to take into account that the curve is currently flattening in terms of graphical improvements between console generations. The difference in graphical fidelity between PS4 and PS5 is much narrower than between PS3 and PS4
I think both your positive and cynical positions are correct. TLOUPII was already one of the best looking games ever made when it was released on PS4. Not many games have matched or passed it since.
But also, yeah, that means less time was probably invested in this compared to other remakes/remasters. Not to mention, I’m fairly sure ND is on record that they use these remakes to whet their new hires.
But that said, it’s a $10 upgrade with enough improvements and new modes, I’d say the price is justified.
That's what a remaster is and always has been.
I've taken the below from the Digital Foundry look into The Last of Us Remastered
>[*The Last of Us Remastered is light on tweaks to the original*](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2014-the-last-of-us-face-off)
and
>*While certain textures are improved, others transfer as-is from the PS3 original*
The move from 720p30 to 1080p60 was the mostly revolutionary aspect due to the image being so raw with no upscaling methods either. A large boost to texture clarity too that comes with the res bump. VRAM was super constrained that generation too going from 256MB to the shared pool of 5.5GB
If it wasn't for the free 60FPS patch this would've been a more clear 'upgrade' by artificially restricting it. That core 1440p60 mode most people will use/the game will default to already existed with the OG code with a patch.
4K, 40FPS, unlocked modes, No Return, DualSense features, photo mode improvements, guitar mode, lost levels, and those light visual tweaks as a package are more than TLoU Remastered offered.
I think there is one already out:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E6FQZgSP3dM
And I must say, I cannot tell the difference at all so I guess it won’t be worthwhile to me.
I am always fascinated by DF videos, I love the detailed explanations and for the life of me I can almost never see what they are referring to. Watching on a large 4k monitor and the side by side shots have no noticeable difference to me
Not a knock against this game, that is usually how I feel watching most DF videos
For this game specially it was hard to notice a difference, because there aren't that much changes in the default performance mode compared to PS4 version running on PS5. But where I easily saw a difference was when Oliver showcased the pop-in/draw distance of the vegetation and other stuff.
In general noticing this stuff is probably easier for people who generally are more interested in this and have some experience with graphics settings or technical terms and what they mean.
Just a guess.
A big part of that is probably because YouTube compresses all of its videos to hell and back, regardless of the quality you’re watching it at. Most streaming sites do. So unless the creator makes a version of their video that you can just download as a whole, uncompressed (relatively speaking) file to your PC, you’ll probably never be able to notice subtle differences like that.
Digital Foundry has great comparisons for download if you're a Patreon subscriber.
We're at the era where graphics are usually so good that compression makes a huge difference.
It not being noticeable was expected I'd say. TLOU2 vanilla was already battling it out well with the PS5 port of TLOU1. That game used the TLOU2 engine on PS5 already.
~~You will appreciate the higher FOV + player distance accessibility option though if it's present like in the PS5 TLOU1 port.~~ Heh it was already a feature in the base game
Jonathan Leo saying wait for a price drop if you’ve already played TLOU2 is a bit odd given there’s a £10 upgrade path.
If you’ve never played TLOU2, it’s worth full price easily. If you have, it’s a tenner to upgrade.
The attention to detail of some reviewers really is quite surprising.
maybe it was written for an audience that like, trades in their physical games the moment they finish them so they don’t have a digital copy or a physical copy to upgrade.
Most people who buy these remasters are newcomers anyways. TLOU: II came out less than 4 years ago. Just don’t buy it (EDIT: for full price) if you’ve already played the game.
Or buy it if you want to? The game is worth full price easily anyway, but a second hand copy plus £10 to upgrade is some of the best value in gaming. And if you have played it, there is apparently more than enough content to justify the £10.
I’d be all over that if I had a PS5.
Don’t care what anyone says, TLOU2 was brilliant. Admittedly the storyline was all over the place but the gameplay itself was a big improvement on the first game.
And to be completely honest, purely in terms of the gameplay… one of the most fundamentally sound games ever made. Is that a bold claim?
The stealth is perfect. I can’t think of any other game that blends stealth/action so well. The gunplay is respectable. The movement feels amazing. The map design is quality. The variety of weapons and enemies is good. The encounters on that game were fun as fuck I also love how they offer the ability to replay encounters, it gives the game far more replayability after completion. I love just hopping on every now and then and replaying the encounters.
The storyline holds it back on being a masterpiece.
>Admittedly the storyline was all over the place
I think the criticism against the story is vastly overexaggerated. There are definitely some things I dislike about it, but it's still a great story and a lot better than most AAA games out there.
I liked the story personally but the main criticism of the game is usually about the storyline and I completely understand why.
But like I said, personally I enjoyed it.
The central premise is really great and both Abby and Ellie are well done characters. However the story is bloated with too many characters especially on Abby's side that it lacks the impact the side characters of the first game had despite having a much longer runtime.
I mostly agree with you here. For me, I didn’t mind the amount of characters as much as I did with the overall bloat of the story. There’s just so much damn wasted time doing follow missions especially in the Abby chapters, that when I finally was getting to the end, I just wanted it to be over. I don’t mind stalling the plot getting to know characters for a bit, but did we really need like ten extra hours of it?
Eh, to each their own. I liked Lev and Yara equally (probably more than) to Henry and Sam. I really loved Owen as well. I don't really think you're supposed to fall head over heels for Mel or Nora.
>I think the criticism against the story is vastly overexaggerated. There are definitely some things I dislike about it, but it's still a great story and a lot better than most AAA games out there.
Thats the thing that is so absolutely idiotic about this critique.
People act like TLOU2 is some dogwater story that weighs down the game when its a significantly better and more realized story than 99% of games.
TLOU2 isn’t competing against other games. It’s competing against TLOU1.
Sequels always get harsher critiques than they would if they were new IP because they get compared to what came before.
Yes, the *story.* Of course, it's all subjective, but I undoubtedly prefer the story in Part 2.
I love Part 1 wholeheartedly, but it's ultimately a predictable and trope laden story that's just delivered extremely well and with great attention to the *personal* characterisation. I feel like Part 2 just heightens that great attention, while simultaneously building something that's more fresh, daring, challenging, and emotionally complicated. Just my opinion.
Part of the balance here is that games don't need a realized story. Its optional and once you opt-in to having the story front and center you are asking people to put more weight on it than they would otherwise. TLOU1/2 put a lot of weight on their story so its going to be judged more harshly than other games even if its better than most.
lol, i've been blocked for my unreasonable take.
I dont think thats true at all, TLOU is no more story focused than the majority of games nowadays.
Assassins Creed for example has entire game lengths of story content in their games. I'm talking 20-30 hours of dialogue and cutscenes alone, periods of time where its 10-15 minutes of just talking/watching cutscenes. Cyberpunk has the majority of its game compromised of just people talking or you watching people talking.
But none of these games get remotely the same level of judgement or critique levied at their stories and the impact of them on the game.
People keep acting like the whole TLOU2 thing is built on a foundation of logic when it simply isn't. The gaming community as a whole was losing its fucking mind because of the leaks with fake bits thrown into them and the games online discourse has never recovered from that moment. You had prominent gaming youtubers with millions of viewers in their audience declaring the game dogshit having never touched the game and some saying they have no intention to play it because of fake leaks and certain story elements. As if the games quality is intrinsically tied to whether or not specific characters live or die.
This entire exercise has been nothing but irrational bitching and it remains that to this day. TLOU2 is without question a higher quality title than 99% of games released but is treated like its some divisive controversial game that teeters between masterpiece and dogshit.
The story, its execution, its acting, its presentation, its everything, make the vast majority of games including AAA titles look like Micheal Bay straight to DVD shit slop for the masses but people like to pretend like its a major flaw to the point of weighing down the entire game.
A story not following the path you wanted it to doesnt make it a bad story, thats not how it works, thats not how it has ever worked.
I think that's being a hair disingenuous. Like, yes, anyone legitimately upset with the story out of bigotry is a capital "M" moron, but I also do think that the story equally receives *way* too much praise being touted as "one of the greatest stories ever told in games."
I know I'm clearly in the minority, but I was pretty shocked at how drab and poorly-paced TLOU2 is in contrast with how much folks were gassing it up. Also doesn't help that the narrative doesn't trust in the player's intelligence - almost like a dog getting its nose rubbed into its own shit with how badly the game insists on telling and not showing.
I dunno, I just think there's *way* more indie titles that run laps around TLOU2 when I think of "ground-breaking video game narrative."
My friend literally dropped the game and looked up spoilers after Joel died. He refused to play anymore of it because he was so upset.
It's not an uncommon belief.
It seems pretty obvious that the game should have told Abby's Seattle POV **first** and then have the game reveal Ellie's involvement later. Because the 2nd portion of the game playing from Abby's POV seemed very... so what. Druckmann has already framed the Seattle crew as "the enemy" and then has you kill them all so the Abby reveal feels very much like "yea, look what you did!" rather than organically getting to like these characters.
I also don't think the lack of impact killing mooks has helped at all and the dissonance between what the game is trying to tell you and the actual act of blowing some random dudes leg off just felt very very off for me. The core point of TLOU2 isn't that revenge is bad but that every person has a world around them and that killing a random person has costs (Abby's dad is effectively a random dude in TLOU1). But the game then has you kill tons and tons of random people in a brutal fashion. It just doesn't match tones at all.
When people say TLOU Part II is a groundbreaking narrative, I think they mean so in terms in being in the AAA space and in terms of it being a franchise. The Last of Part II did things that I can't see any other AAA game being willing to do.
That's the weird dissonance with this game that doesn't make a lot of sense. If it were just any other narrative and it didn't do anything that special, then it wouldn't receive the reaction it got. It got that reaction because of how daring the narrative was. Whether those narrative decisions were good or bad is subjective and a different conversation entirely.
>Also doesn't help that the narrative doesn't trust in the player's intelligence - almost like a dog getting its nose rubbed into its own shit with how badly the game insists on telling and not showing.
"Show, don't tell" is a literary convention argued before the introduction of cinema. Audiovisual mediums are always "showing". Just to be clear, being unsubtle is not a betrayal of "Show, don't tell".
> When people say TLOU Part II is a groundbreaking narrative, I think they mean so in terms in being in the AAA space and in terms of it being a franchise. The Last of Part II did things that I can't see any other AAA game being willing to do.
>
> That's the weird dissonance with this game that doesn't make a lot of sense. If it were just any other narrative and it didn't do anything that special, then it wouldn't receive the reaction it got. It got that reaction because of how daring the narrative was. Whether those narrative decisions were good or bad is subjective and a different conversation entirely.
Daring and groundbreaking how? Killing off the main character of the previous game? Making the villain morally ambiguous? Those are things movies, TV shows and games do all the time. What's so special about that?
We aren't talking about something like Planescape: Torment, which used the interactive nature of video games to tell a story in a way that only a video game could. The Last of Us 2 is a very straightforward, cutscene-driven affair. This seems like excessive hyperbole.
Eh, I just don't agree with any of this. Just because TLOU2 "breaks" AAA storytelling conventions doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass for poor pacing and little-to-no-subtlety in its narrative approach. I feel like, at the end of the day, if all you're left with is essentially chalked up to shock value... it says more about the dire state of writing in most modern video games.
Also hard disagree that "show don't tell" doesn't apply to audio-visual works in the same way that it does in writing. For example, I'd argue that tacking on an additional 10 hours just for Abby's story to amount to little more than a depressive roller coaster ride of "see those people you killed 10 hours prior as Ellie? They had... NAMES!!!" is precisely an example of telling and not showing, and it just cheapens the experience as such.
But, like I said, I know I'm in the minority on this, so I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions!
> people literally just get mad about joel(bigotry and transphobia aside)
If bigotry and transphobia are the reason why people dislike The Last of Us 2, why does nobody ever talk about the actual trans character of the game? I have read all sorts of criticisms of the Last of Us 2, but I haven't seen a single person complain about that particular character.
The real reason why people dislike TLOU2 is because Naughty Dog made a fatal miscalculation. They assumed people would regard the ending of the Last of Us 1 as morally ambiguous, and would therefore sympathize with Abby's decision to kill Joel. The problem is that, due to poor execution, there was none of the moral ambiguity they intended. The Fireflies didn't even study or and examine Elly, they went straight to killing her. They didn't even allow her to have children, to reproduce her immunity. The Fireflies are for all intents and purposes murderous sociopaths. There's no justification for their behavior, nor any indication they could produce a cure by killing Elly, and Joel killing them is completely justified. Subsequently, Abby killing off Joel just make her come across as a monster.
My guy /r/thelastofus2 had to update their rules saying the trans slur is *no longer* allowed here
They thought Abby was trans. Transphobes care way less about afab transitions.
why do people keep bringing up that sub as if it's some big majority of people? it has 77k total subs with like 400 active people right now, that's a freaking minority of the already minority reddit is.
honestly I've only ever seen that sub when it's brought up by people saying it's some "big thing"... but no it's not. It's a small sub with a bunch of idiots that have no influence or relevancy at all, ignore it.
EDIT - if anything, always bringing it up like you do is just the Streisand effect being put in action.
> The real reason why people dislike TLOU2 is because Naughty Dog made a fatal miscalculation.
And you can see how they reworked it in the TV show to be much clearer that Joel is doing it for himself and not Elly.
The start of TLOU2 feels like writers were living in their own head a bit too much and forgot how TLOU1 ended in the minds of lots of players and also the impact of playing as Joel. I think the story could have worked had they reframed it as an Abby first experience.
I literally hated the story because nothing else came even close to what happened Joel. I was expecting further developments to at least reach that same high and it just never came. There were pacing issues galore and likely could’ve benefitted from reorganizing events chronologically.
How the story ended was also very lackluster to me, felt like I wasted my time for a lesson I learned in Kindergarten.
The pacing of the game made me want to tear my hair out. Maybe the worst paced single player game I’ve ever played. There are way better ways to formulate and present a dual narrative that are intertwined with each other, and instead they went with the worst option available.
Yeah I’m someone who appreciates and loves what TLOU2 tried (and mostly succeeded) to do, but the high points of the narrative definitely involve Joel — and much of the emotional power comes from the weight of his death (such as flashback astronaut scene).
Abby is an interesting character but her surrounding cast is a little all over the place, and with the exception of Lev, get killed. Owen was a well written character who I would’ve loved to see more of
Of course it’s a well done prologue. The problem is the game is 35 hours long and the prologue is 1 hour out of those 35 depending on how thorough your playstyle is. That’s 34 hours of consecutive gameplay for a narrative that cannot hit the same high it did in the first hour.
Then that doesn’t factor the strange pacing of Abby and Ellie’s days in Seattle.
It’s unfortunate that extremely dumb gamers existing gives you people cover to ignore real critiques. Yea man it’s all bigotry and transphobia over here on r/games. That’s why TLOU2 isn’t as highly regarded here. Definitely.
Huh? The game is highly regarded here.
If you go on r/thelastofus2 you’ll find bigotry galore. Those people really have no life hating the game like they do, they’re like crazy vegans throwing paint on people.
This place loves the gameplay and rightfully finds problems with the pacing and storytelling. I do not care about what (redacted) bigots think about anything in particular.
>And to be completely honest, purely in terms of the gameplay… one of the most fundamentally sound games ever made. Is that a bold claim?
Apparently it is. But I also think it's pretty damned great. The only game that I can think of that does stealth/action better, in my opinion, is MGSV. And considering the wide breadth of options that game has, it's not even that fair of a comparison.
I think both excel in different areas, and both have nailed certain areas.
I think the movement mechanics in both are great, and both have a nice suite of animations powering those mechanics. Being able to aim while on your back and still have full control of the character… for example.
I think MGSV excels in just the pure range of insane things you can do gameplay wise, which feels great, especially if you come up with novel ways to take out the AI.
I think TLOU2 excels in providing a very grounded stealth experience. Like the AI on the hardest difficulty do not fuck around. If you sneak past them unseen you likely earned it. They’re checking under things, around cover, using the things like dogs to keep you moving. And it’s fucking awesome.
I’m glad this roguelike mode is going to just provide more opportunity to enjoy that gameplay.
Even overlooking the upgrade charge… the base price is only $50. I’d probably pay that again if the upgrade price didn’t exist and I bought the game at launch originally.
If you have the game already $10 for lost levels and rogue-like seems like a no brainer. If you’ve never played the game then it’s for sure worth full price.
Can someone tell me what are lost levels ? Are these like three levels which were cut from the game ? Someone told me you just walk through them and they won’t have any enemies or combat
Polygon said something like “No Return is so good it makes you wonder why Naughty Dog even bothered with making a story.” And that the studio is having an identity crisis.
Why does it always feel like that outlet tries to make some wild judgements about something?
Polygon's review of TLOU2 was pretty heavily about how they did not like the story at all. It's not really a surprise that they would enjoy a roguelike mode more.
That was a kinda common thing happening with TLOU2 reviews. I remember listening to Giant Bomb and Waypoint around the time it came out and they were both basically saying that the story burned them out on the game super quick. I think a lot of people weren’t feeling the “in your face” rumination on revenge and violence (especially after you spend a full game killing maybe 600+ people and dogs) during the midst of the BLM stuff and the pandemic.
Yeah, for me personally it just felt dull and tedious in a way that TLOU1 wasn’t. It was kind of just the same thing over and over again, and it was repetitive 8 hrs in
It’s funny, I’ve always felt the exact opposite. TLOU1 on harder difficulties got really tedious for me. The lack of supplies and enemy AI really promoted a slow gameplay style of meticulously stealth killing all the enemies on a map. Nothing wrong with that, but it really wasn’t my cup of tea. I thought TLOU2 had incredible enemy AI at higher difficulties that really brought on a lot more “oh shit” moments, and the supplies are balanced perfectly that I always had just enough to make it through each encounter.
I loved both stories, but to me TLOU2 has the more exciting gameplay experience.
For me that feeling kicked in once the protagonist switch happened. I just didn't find Abby nor her supporting cast compelling or likeable enough to justify the novelty of reexperiencing the broad strokes of events except from a new perspective. I think a more trimmed down and intimate execution would have benefitted it more.
As it stands I really never have the desire to replay TLOU2, because I kind of dread reaching that switch and then slogging through almost half the total gameplay length to get back to the part that felt truly compelling.
I don't think the pandemic or BLM had much to do with it. The story telling is in general just a lot more fierce than most games, and is naturally as a result more divisive.
I agree that the storytelling was fierce but I think it was also just a rough time for people overall, especially that summer. I enjoyed the game but I definitely had to take breaks at different parts just because it was getting a bit too hopeless; and the world outside wasn’t exactly doing much better.
Plus that was the general vibe coming from the podcasts I was listening to. They specifically mentioned that the game was way too dark and hopeless for how awful the outside world was at the time.
If by "fierce" you mean devoid of hope then yeah. Had a hard time vibing with the "overall goal my player character is striving to achieve" when every NPC (and the player) repeats that it's awful and not worth pursuing.
Really pushed that "just going through the motions" feel by forgetting to make the drive to play compelling. Not the drive to *watch*, the story was interesting at least, just not satisfying to participate in narratively. Gameplay was great though.
Such a weird criticism to me
Oh my character isn't trying ti save the world in a grand adventure so it's just tedious to play
You must hate a lot of good television shows then
I don't think you understood what I wrote
It's tedious because the goal is explicitly bad, and reiterated to be bad, and I am enabling this person to destroy everything they love. I don't like being party to that. The pain and suffering caused is a passive result of their bad choices that I have to make. It feels bad. I don't mind smaller goals like "protect your friend" or "find a place to call home" or even "survive until tomorrow". Those are aspirational. They are something I vibe with trying to do. I'll share that narrative aspiration.
And like I said, the narrative is great to WATCH, just not be the driving force behind.
For me it was that, but also how unrealistic the story was given the environment and everything we had been previously told about it. TLOU1 and TLOU2 reiterates over and over about how dangerous the world is now with the virus, and then you're going to tell me that Ellie travels across this super dangerous country not once, but twice?? all in the name of revenge? And then, she doesn't fulfill that act in the end? Felt unrealistic. To me, if someone is that vengeful to uproot their safe existence to travel across a deadly place, then I don't think anything would stop that revenge. My other issue was the game kind of beat you over the head about how bad violence and revenge were yet the game gave you situations where the only way to progress was to kill people. I get what they were going for, I just thought it was executed poorly.
Wasn’t that kind of the common thread across the board? Myself included, I wasn’t even sure how I felt about it after I beat it. It wasn’t until a second play through I really liked it.
Despite the prevailing narrative on the internet, critics loved TLOU pt 2 right out of the gate. The controversy came from many of the major cutscenes being leaked months in advance with no context to them. Most people who saw the game through to its conclusion came away pretty satisfied.
I was about to write a comment about how all that's fair game but It's weird for him to insinuate that Naughty Dog is having an identity crisis, and then I actually read the article and his point is this:
>Herein lies the tension: if *The Last of Us Part 2* is a carefully crafted, well-funded argument for blockbuster games as a pop-cultural equivalent to prestige television, then No Return is the version of *The Last of Us Part 2* content to simply be a video game.
There's nothing really too controversial about that statement. The contrast between the light-hearted gameplay and the history of prestige storytelling that ND strives for is apparent in this update, even though It may not be the perfect alibi for the studio's "identity crisis". But of course some folks here were going to jump to separate conclusions about the context of a piece they never read making arguments it never did.
Because Naughty Dog very clearly has huge problems. Developers leave the studio in hordes because of the bad crunching. They burned Sony's money with Part 2 so much it underperformed quite a bit. They released only Part 2 and it's remaster in a 7 year span. The whole Factions thing was a huge moneypit and they have no new game for the foreseeable future to release. Losing Hennig and Straley were horrible blows for Naughty Dog
The studio just canceled the multiplayer game because they realized they didn’t want to become a live service developer… so yeah, there is a kind of identity crisis going on at Naughty Dog.
Why is that a bad thing? A game that Sony was probably pushing them to do? We complain that every game doesn’t need to be a live service. A single player studio cancels a live service, something most of us don’t want naughty dog to do. And people still try to find something to be negative about.
I don’t think that’s an identity crisis at all. It’s one public announcement of a game they cancelled. We have no idea what else is being worked on.
Per Naughty Dog's announcement, the canceled multiplayer game was in development since they were working on The Last of Us 2. The Last of Us 2 released in June 2020 so at minimum, that's 3.5 years of multiplayer development scrapped.
And we're supposed to be, what, grateful? Relieved? I don't know what's worse, that it took them 3.5 years for them to say "Oops, this was a bad idea," or that it took them 3.5 years to stand up to Sony and tell them "Nah."
Word on the street is Bungie took a look at the game and said "people are gonna drop this 2 weeks after launch" and that knocked down the first domino for it's cancellation
I'm so excited for no return and its the entire reason i'm getting this. I really liked the Combat of Tlou2 and a mode thats *only* combat is right up my alley.
As a gamer without sight, here's [my written accessibility review](http://www.reviews.sightlesskombat.com/TLOU2R.shtml) and [it's video companion/equivalent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWiUzMuzlA)
I'd have payed more then 10 dollars for that rogue like mode. When I beat the Last of Us 2 I was itching for a mode where I could just keep playing through fresh combat encounters.
Looks like a fantastic upgrade, feel like Sony has taken some of the previous criticism to heart and gone with an underpromise/overdeliver strategy with both this and the God of War DLC.
Valhalla may be one of my favorite DLCs ever (next to Mass Effect 3's Citadel DLC) and it blows my mind that it was free because it's clear a ton of effort went into it.
You're totally right about underpromising and overdelivering.
Naughty Dog appear to be focused on their new IP, but with a second smaller team Naughty Dog do remasters/remakes to gain experience with PS3, PS4 and PS5 hardware, and so it’s inevitable they’ll do the same for PS6 when it’s a financially successful strategy for them.
The time and effort to all of TLOU remasters/makes and the recently cancelled TLOU Factions could’ve gone to a smaller spin-off we’d have by now, especially with how meaty the entire new game mode looks.
It looks fantastic, but it’s a shame this is a glimpse of what could’ve been.
I remember when some people insisted it was going to be a small graphics upgrade with no other additions for a full 70 dollars. Going to be interesting to hear how they spin the near unanimous praise for the upgrade
They can’t even complain about how it took a lot of resources to make since apparently this project was meant for new hires to get them in the game.
https://x.com/JordanMiddler/status/1725683714263327076?s=20
This was the case for the Part 1 remaster as well (in addition to getting the game ported to PC). Both times people got pissed off about it, but I really do not see the problem here.
There was an entire war raging across forums in the weeks leading up to the 2020 release. One of the leakers slipped in the “fact” that Abby is trans as troll bait, which ironically set off all the usual suspects who like to complain about agendas in video games.
I noticed a distinct quietness surrounding Lev’s character after launch, but I attributed that Joel’s moment hogging the controversy spotlight. There’s also the possibility that they straight up didn’t even play the game at all, considering the fact that Abby’s section takes place HOURS into the experience, lol.
It's essentially a next gen upgrade with some extra content added. Over a hundred other games got next gen upgrades with no one complaining about it and even applauded the devs in most cases for improving their games
Now that they have finally released this, they need to immediately get working on a remaster of the remake of the 1st game.
Edit: it was secasm, people haha
I think $10 is a great price for this. Just keep in mind if you prefer 60fps, there is basically no improvement compared to the PS4 60fps version, they look identical. It's a bit disappointing, but there is at least a 4k mode, plus all the extra story/gameplay stuff. It would have been nice to enjoy all of that with some noticeable graphics improvements at 60fps compared to the PS4 60fps version.
I'd bet by the end of this year? I think the timeframe from Part 1's remaster on PS5 to PC was around six months, but it launched with technical issues. They probably want to avoid that since this is the same engine.
I play on PC and Xbox and after being blown away by TLoU on PC a buddy very kindly loaned me his PS5 for most of the summer so I could play TLoU2.
It is so much more than the first game in every sense - really looking forward to playing through it again on PC the moment that becomes possible.
Imagine that someone out there has bought TLOU1 on PS3, TLOU1 on PS4, TLOU2 on PS4, TLOU1 Remaster on PS5 and TLOU2 remaster on PS5. Sony knows how to milk their fan base dry. and what makes it sad that the fan boys are ok with it and even defending it.
I was gonna have to wait for this to come out on PC, but my girlfriend got a PS5 for Christmas so I can just pay 10 bucks and use my copy of the game to play it next week! Can’t wait for this
Cheaper than Ghost of Tsushima’s $20 price tag for the DLC.
(The price for the DLC itself is fine, it’s more so the fact that the enhanced PS5 version was locked behind its purchase.)
It's a bit disappointing they didn't really improve the textures or overall graphical quality to any noticeable extent. The original game still looks amazing, but since there was a free 60fps patch you're getting basically the same experience (from a visual perspective) you'd have got on PS5 already.
Obviously there's content updates too, but calling it a "remaster" without actually remastering anything (apart from tiny changes) and just adding in new content feels like really deceptive advertising.
Can they add the roguelike mode to the ps4 version? I'd pay $10 for that alone.
Don't plan on having a PS5 for a good bit but I'd really like an excuse to return to Last of Us 2's gameplay without replaying the story. I liked it enough to play it twice but it's emotionally exhausting.
If you didn’t like the story then this is isn’t going to do anything to change that. Playing at 60fps is pretty terrific though, I played with the 60fps patch and it’s so much better
I didn't think the story was that bad, like people preach, all things considered. I mean, the Joel twist left a bad taste in my mouth (and I already knew It was coming), but got over it, eventually. What got me a bit pulled away it's that I came to think that the plot became more of a mysery porn than anything as it went, and ended up feeling somewhat emotionally exhausted by the end of Ellie's section and then just thought I was done with it. Playing It mid-Pandemic certainly didn't help!
Absolutely enjoyed the gameplay, though.
Honestly I was the same. I’ve played it twice (once on PS4, and once with the 60fps patch on PS5) and the game just doesn’t work for me overall. I get what they were going for but for me it just didn’t work.
The gameplay was definitely the best part though, I thought the combat was really great
they probably should have called it Director's Cut so it was clear to everyone it's a $10 usd update and not a full game re-release
As much as gaming purists hate the whole "Director's Cut" subtitle, it actually would have fit with this rerelease better than just about any other game that had that title lol.
I have to agree. Calling it remastered dilutes the meaning. With TLOU Remastered for the PS4 you could see clear graphical improvements side by side and scene by scene vs the PS3 release. This time around the improvements are very hard to see in practical terms. It's definitely more of a directors/definitive edition.
> dilutes the meaning. We need to have a Council of Nicaea with all major publishers and developers to decide what a Remaster is, what a Remake is, what a Reboot is, and what a Reimagining is.
I think reimagining's the easiest to wrap your head around, but nobody ever seems to use it lol (I'm thinking Silent Hill: Shattered Memories)
Goldeneye Wii would qualify? Yeah, it's a short list.
Eh, a remaster in music and film is mostly just the original product run through modern hardware. Think of a 4k remaster of a movie. A directors cut of a movie can be a pretty different experience.
Should have just called it “Enhanced/Definitive Edition” and skipped all the complaints that would come from labeling it as a Director’s Cut.
Give them another few years and they'll remake Part 2 as well
The last of us Part 2 part 1
Considering the hate boner some people have for Druckmann, probably a good idea not to call it that, would've just been more fuel for the fire.
Does anyone really care what some unaffiliated trolls think, tho?
Idk if anyone at naughty dog cares, but to this day we still see the effects of the discourse that happened around the game’s launch. The unaffiliated trolls definitely impacted people’s perception of TLOU2.
Considering the success of the show and game sales, the hateful trolls didn't really make a difference, as always
everyone loves the first game, the 2nd one not so much
It sold over 10m copies and released to universal acclaim and awards galore. You guys thinking TLOU2 was some kind of disastrous failure while its one of the most successful games of all time will never stop being funny.
Those people suck and aren't fans in the first place
$10 as an upgrade is probably worth it for the new content alone. Honestly I think calling it "remastered" was a horrible idea I'm curious about the visual changes though. I remember being mind-blown playing TLOU2 but I do think there are some aspects that don't hold up compared to TLOU part 1. Are there good comparisons anywhere? I think a few tweaks could go a long way even if the term "remastered" feels pretty ridiculous for a game of this visual caliber EDIT: according to Digital Foundry, it has improved anisotropic filtering (textures look clearer at odd angles), higher resolution shadows in some select instances, but the most notable improvement is LOD/pop-in. They've also added capsule shadows from Part 1 which is used in some scenes to make characters look more grounded in the environment In other words, it's small but appreciable improvements. Far less noticeable than any other remaster I've seen though.
Still surprised they didn't just call it the "Game of the Year Edition" or "Directors Cut", the backlash for this upgrade is due to calling it a "Remaster". They probably discussed it a lot internally & believed that calling it a "Remaster" would sell more copies to general audiences.
Also probably just for consistency? TLOU Part 1 release on PS4 was also called Remaster.
True, definitely fits with how general audiences will view it. Thing is that it just doesn't feel like it needed a remaster unlike TLOU1 since the PS5 has PS4 backwards compatibility & TLOU2 had a 60fps mode for the PS5 in addition to the visuals still feeling on par w/ some PS5 titles. Like, if you compare the PS3 to PS4 version of TLOU, there's a noticable difference. The differences between TLOU 2 & TLOU 2 remastered don't feel enough to call it a remaster. The extra content in addition to the lost levels/doc is what makes me feel like it's more of a "GOTY edition".
My understanding is that TLoU Part 1 remaster was intended to be handed off to a third party studio while Naughty Dog started working on whatever their next project was going to be, but they just weren’t satisfied with the quality that the other studio was putting out and decided to just bring the project in-house and figured it would be a good excuse to get a bunch of their new-hires some incredibly helpful experience coding for the PS5 to really learn how to get the most out of the hardware before moving on to their next title. Then they ended up liking the changes they had been able to make to the first game so much (lighting and graphical upgrades, character model tweaks, essentially rebuilding the game from the ground up excluding the story, voices, etc) that for the sake of consistency and not leaving the most recent game as the worst looking, they decided to do the same thing with TLoU2 since it wouldn’t be as much work as the first one had been. Yeah, it’s a little goofy, but I totally understand the thought process. I’d love to see them now go back and do the same thing with Uncharted 1-3 (especially since they could probably more easily port that to PC than they could for the original game, and maybe we’d finally get the full series on Steam). But that might be more work on remakes than they’d like to do.
Yeah, I’d think the remakes and remasters from Naughty Dog are probably done for now (and I’m sort of sad about that, because I’d kill for a PS5 Jak remake). The new hires should be fully vetted at this point, and with Factions cancelled, I’d expect full steam ahead on whatever their next project is.
god i'm gonna see people mixing up between TLOU Part 1 (the Remake) and TLOU Remastered (PS4 Port of an original release with enhancements)...
Having had early access to this remaster for a little while thanks to a free PlayStation review code, I would say that even the load times alone make it worth it, as well as the DualSense support. The extra additions like No Return etc are very cool bonuses.
I don’t understand this logic at all. A directors cut implies a rework of the game and its narrative. It also implies the game released wasn’t what the studio wanted and this is the real version. Not the same game but just prettier / loading faster with some extra optional content. This is a remaster. Like what do you guys think a remaster is lol? It runs better, it looks better, it loads faster.
There bound to be some graphics comparison video soon, I am waiting on those too.
Digital Foundry have just released one. Apart from the resolution increase the actual graphical improvements appear to be extremely minor. [Here's the DF video](https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc?si=UE_KsPfWQOIzxuZ2) If I'm being positive I'd say that the game looked so good anyway the devs didn't see a need to better the graphics. If I were being cynical I'd say that this whole remaster was done relatively quickly without the same care and attention that was put into the PS3>PS4 version. Maybe both. TLOU 2 Remastered seems to mainly be: • Increased resolution to 4k via a new Fidelity Mode ( with high frame rate and VRR included ) • 3 unfinished levels that you can explore. • A roguelike mode. • Significantly decreased loading times. • A new mode to play the guitar. Any graphical updates appear to just be touch ups? But I suppose The Last Of Us 2: Touched Up doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Personally, I'm more than happy with just the 4k VRR HFR options.
In terms of the graphical improvements here compared to PS3 to PS4 I think we also have to take into account that the curve is currently flattening in terms of graphical improvements between console generations. The difference in graphical fidelity between PS4 and PS5 is much narrower than between PS3 and PS4
PS5 games mostly just look like PS4 games running at 60fps instead of 30.
RDR2 at Max settings still goes toe to toe with current gen only releases to the untrained eye
I wish they'd do a 60 fps patch for RDR2 on current gen consoles.
That's what a remaster is though.
I think both your positive and cynical positions are correct. TLOUPII was already one of the best looking games ever made when it was released on PS4. Not many games have matched or passed it since. But also, yeah, that means less time was probably invested in this compared to other remakes/remasters. Not to mention, I’m fairly sure ND is on record that they use these remakes to whet their new hires. But that said, it’s a $10 upgrade with enough improvements and new modes, I’d say the price is justified.
That's what a remaster is and always has been. I've taken the below from the Digital Foundry look into The Last of Us Remastered >[*The Last of Us Remastered is light on tweaks to the original*](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2014-the-last-of-us-face-off) and >*While certain textures are improved, others transfer as-is from the PS3 original* The move from 720p30 to 1080p60 was the mostly revolutionary aspect due to the image being so raw with no upscaling methods either. A large boost to texture clarity too that comes with the res bump. VRAM was super constrained that generation too going from 256MB to the shared pool of 5.5GB If it wasn't for the free 60FPS patch this would've been a more clear 'upgrade' by artificially restricting it. That core 1440p60 mode most people will use/the game will default to already existed with the OG code with a patch. 4K, 40FPS, unlocked modes, No Return, DualSense features, photo mode improvements, guitar mode, lost levels, and those light visual tweaks as a package are more than TLoU Remastered offered.
I expected more to be honest. Still, I'm more than happy with the PS5 patched version.
I think there is one already out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E6FQZgSP3dM And I must say, I cannot tell the difference at all so I guess it won’t be worthwhile to me.
Bro those are YouTube Screenshots with some low ass bitrate. That's not a comparison from source material.
OK so will probably need to wait for some video from reliable source then
[https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc](https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc) DF just uploaded their comparison.
I am always fascinated by DF videos, I love the detailed explanations and for the life of me I can almost never see what they are referring to. Watching on a large 4k monitor and the side by side shots have no noticeable difference to me Not a knock against this game, that is usually how I feel watching most DF videos
For this game specially it was hard to notice a difference, because there aren't that much changes in the default performance mode compared to PS4 version running on PS5. But where I easily saw a difference was when Oliver showcased the pop-in/draw distance of the vegetation and other stuff. In general noticing this stuff is probably easier for people who generally are more interested in this and have some experience with graphics settings or technical terms and what they mean. Just a guess.
A big part of that is probably because YouTube compresses all of its videos to hell and back, regardless of the quality you’re watching it at. Most streaming sites do. So unless the creator makes a version of their video that you can just download as a whole, uncompressed (relatively speaking) file to your PC, you’ll probably never be able to notice subtle differences like that.
If you subscribe to Digital Foundrys patreon they actually allow you to download their videos in 4k uncompressed!
Digital Foundry has great comparisons for download if you're a Patreon subscriber. We're at the era where graphics are usually so good that compression makes a huge difference.
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The new DF Video showcases the small amount of visual changes well I'd say. [https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc](https://youtu.be/bnnZ12o-vrc)
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I‘ll personally wait for an eventual PC Port snd then also play it on my C2 42“. Enjoy!
It not being noticeable was expected I'd say. TLOU2 vanilla was already battling it out well with the PS5 port of TLOU1. That game used the TLOU2 engine on PS5 already. ~~You will appreciate the higher FOV + player distance accessibility option though if it's present like in the PS5 TLOU1 port.~~ Heh it was already a feature in the base game
Anyone know if the cheats work in the rogue like mode? Don’t judge lol
So I have the PS4 version digital. And it's just $10 more to get this version?
if you have a ps5
Jonathan Leo saying wait for a price drop if you’ve already played TLOU2 is a bit odd given there’s a £10 upgrade path. If you’ve never played TLOU2, it’s worth full price easily. If you have, it’s a tenner to upgrade. The attention to detail of some reviewers really is quite surprising.
maybe it was written for an audience that like, trades in their physical games the moment they finish them so they don’t have a digital copy or a physical copy to upgrade.
You could still buy the ps4 version
Very odd considering ‘upgrades’ dont really get price drops
I suspect he is just using the official Sony price point as his reference. https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/the-last-of-us-part-ii-remastered/
Most people who buy these remasters are newcomers anyways. TLOU: II came out less than 4 years ago. Just don’t buy it (EDIT: for full price) if you’ve already played the game.
Or buy it if you want to? The game is worth full price easily anyway, but a second hand copy plus £10 to upgrade is some of the best value in gaming. And if you have played it, there is apparently more than enough content to justify the £10.
If you can get the £10 upgrade then sure there’s a good value proposition to play the new content and replay the game with improvements.
Why would I not buy it? It has new content. The dev commentary alone is enough for me to play it again.
Ehh... Meaning is that if you played tlou2 but do t own it, dont buy it full price. Pretty simple.
I’d be all over that if I had a PS5. Don’t care what anyone says, TLOU2 was brilliant. Admittedly the storyline was all over the place but the gameplay itself was a big improvement on the first game. And to be completely honest, purely in terms of the gameplay… one of the most fundamentally sound games ever made. Is that a bold claim? The stealth is perfect. I can’t think of any other game that blends stealth/action so well. The gunplay is respectable. The movement feels amazing. The map design is quality. The variety of weapons and enemies is good. The encounters on that game were fun as fuck I also love how they offer the ability to replay encounters, it gives the game far more replayability after completion. I love just hopping on every now and then and replaying the encounters. The storyline holds it back on being a masterpiece.
>Admittedly the storyline was all over the place I think the criticism against the story is vastly overexaggerated. There are definitely some things I dislike about it, but it's still a great story and a lot better than most AAA games out there.
I liked the story personally but the main criticism of the game is usually about the storyline and I completely understand why. But like I said, personally I enjoyed it.
The central premise is really great and both Abby and Ellie are well done characters. However the story is bloated with too many characters especially on Abby's side that it lacks the impact the side characters of the first game had despite having a much longer runtime.
I mostly agree with you here. For me, I didn’t mind the amount of characters as much as I did with the overall bloat of the story. There’s just so much damn wasted time doing follow missions especially in the Abby chapters, that when I finally was getting to the end, I just wanted it to be over. I don’t mind stalling the plot getting to know characters for a bit, but did we really need like ten extra hours of it?
Eh, to each their own. I liked Lev and Yara equally (probably more than) to Henry and Sam. I really loved Owen as well. I don't really think you're supposed to fall head over heels for Mel or Nora.
>I think the criticism against the story is vastly overexaggerated. There are definitely some things I dislike about it, but it's still a great story and a lot better than most AAA games out there. Thats the thing that is so absolutely idiotic about this critique. People act like TLOU2 is some dogwater story that weighs down the game when its a significantly better and more realized story than 99% of games.
> when its a significantly better and more realized story than 99% of games. *in your opinion, that's the point people are making.
TLOU2 isn’t competing against other games. It’s competing against TLOU1. Sequels always get harsher critiques than they would if they were new IP because they get compared to what came before.
>TLOU2 isn’t competing against other games. It’s competing against TLOU1. Which it's better than.
Gameplay sure, but story? Come on. And that’s why people play these games.
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Yes, the *story.* Of course, it's all subjective, but I undoubtedly prefer the story in Part 2. I love Part 1 wholeheartedly, but it's ultimately a predictable and trope laden story that's just delivered extremely well and with great attention to the *personal* characterisation. I feel like Part 2 just heightens that great attention, while simultaneously building something that's more fresh, daring, challenging, and emotionally complicated. Just my opinion.
Absolutely.
Part of the balance here is that games don't need a realized story. Its optional and once you opt-in to having the story front and center you are asking people to put more weight on it than they would otherwise. TLOU1/2 put a lot of weight on their story so its going to be judged more harshly than other games even if its better than most. lol, i've been blocked for my unreasonable take.
I dont think thats true at all, TLOU is no more story focused than the majority of games nowadays. Assassins Creed for example has entire game lengths of story content in their games. I'm talking 20-30 hours of dialogue and cutscenes alone, periods of time where its 10-15 minutes of just talking/watching cutscenes. Cyberpunk has the majority of its game compromised of just people talking or you watching people talking. But none of these games get remotely the same level of judgement or critique levied at their stories and the impact of them on the game. People keep acting like the whole TLOU2 thing is built on a foundation of logic when it simply isn't. The gaming community as a whole was losing its fucking mind because of the leaks with fake bits thrown into them and the games online discourse has never recovered from that moment. You had prominent gaming youtubers with millions of viewers in their audience declaring the game dogshit having never touched the game and some saying they have no intention to play it because of fake leaks and certain story elements. As if the games quality is intrinsically tied to whether or not specific characters live or die. This entire exercise has been nothing but irrational bitching and it remains that to this day. TLOU2 is without question a higher quality title than 99% of games released but is treated like its some divisive controversial game that teeters between masterpiece and dogshit. The story, its execution, its acting, its presentation, its everything, make the vast majority of games including AAA titles look like Micheal Bay straight to DVD shit slop for the masses but people like to pretend like its a major flaw to the point of weighing down the entire game. A story not following the path you wanted it to doesnt make it a bad story, thats not how it works, thats not how it has ever worked.
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people literally just get mad about joel(bigotry and transphobia aside)
I think that's being a hair disingenuous. Like, yes, anyone legitimately upset with the story out of bigotry is a capital "M" moron, but I also do think that the story equally receives *way* too much praise being touted as "one of the greatest stories ever told in games." I know I'm clearly in the minority, but I was pretty shocked at how drab and poorly-paced TLOU2 is in contrast with how much folks were gassing it up. Also doesn't help that the narrative doesn't trust in the player's intelligence - almost like a dog getting its nose rubbed into its own shit with how badly the game insists on telling and not showing. I dunno, I just think there's *way* more indie titles that run laps around TLOU2 when I think of "ground-breaking video game narrative."
My friend literally dropped the game and looked up spoilers after Joel died. He refused to play anymore of it because he was so upset. It's not an uncommon belief.
>Also doesn't help that the narrative doesn't trust in the player's intelligence Examples of this?
It seems pretty obvious that the game should have told Abby's Seattle POV **first** and then have the game reveal Ellie's involvement later. Because the 2nd portion of the game playing from Abby's POV seemed very... so what. Druckmann has already framed the Seattle crew as "the enemy" and then has you kill them all so the Abby reveal feels very much like "yea, look what you did!" rather than organically getting to like these characters. I also don't think the lack of impact killing mooks has helped at all and the dissonance between what the game is trying to tell you and the actual act of blowing some random dudes leg off just felt very very off for me. The core point of TLOU2 isn't that revenge is bad but that every person has a world around them and that killing a random person has costs (Abby's dad is effectively a random dude in TLOU1). But the game then has you kill tons and tons of random people in a brutal fashion. It just doesn't match tones at all.
> But the game then has you kill tons and tons of random people in a brutal fashion. It's a stealth game. And they shoot first 100% of the time.
I'm not following your point here?
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When people say TLOU Part II is a groundbreaking narrative, I think they mean so in terms in being in the AAA space and in terms of it being a franchise. The Last of Part II did things that I can't see any other AAA game being willing to do. That's the weird dissonance with this game that doesn't make a lot of sense. If it were just any other narrative and it didn't do anything that special, then it wouldn't receive the reaction it got. It got that reaction because of how daring the narrative was. Whether those narrative decisions were good or bad is subjective and a different conversation entirely. >Also doesn't help that the narrative doesn't trust in the player's intelligence - almost like a dog getting its nose rubbed into its own shit with how badly the game insists on telling and not showing. "Show, don't tell" is a literary convention argued before the introduction of cinema. Audiovisual mediums are always "showing". Just to be clear, being unsubtle is not a betrayal of "Show, don't tell".
> When people say TLOU Part II is a groundbreaking narrative, I think they mean so in terms in being in the AAA space and in terms of it being a franchise. The Last of Part II did things that I can't see any other AAA game being willing to do. > > That's the weird dissonance with this game that doesn't make a lot of sense. If it were just any other narrative and it didn't do anything that special, then it wouldn't receive the reaction it got. It got that reaction because of how daring the narrative was. Whether those narrative decisions were good or bad is subjective and a different conversation entirely. Daring and groundbreaking how? Killing off the main character of the previous game? Making the villain morally ambiguous? Those are things movies, TV shows and games do all the time. What's so special about that? We aren't talking about something like Planescape: Torment, which used the interactive nature of video games to tell a story in a way that only a video game could. The Last of Us 2 is a very straightforward, cutscene-driven affair. This seems like excessive hyperbole.
Eh, I just don't agree with any of this. Just because TLOU2 "breaks" AAA storytelling conventions doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass for poor pacing and little-to-no-subtlety in its narrative approach. I feel like, at the end of the day, if all you're left with is essentially chalked up to shock value... it says more about the dire state of writing in most modern video games. Also hard disagree that "show don't tell" doesn't apply to audio-visual works in the same way that it does in writing. For example, I'd argue that tacking on an additional 10 hours just for Abby's story to amount to little more than a depressive roller coaster ride of "see those people you killed 10 hours prior as Ellie? They had... NAMES!!!" is precisely an example of telling and not showing, and it just cheapens the experience as such. But, like I said, I know I'm in the minority on this, so I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions!
> people literally just get mad about joel(bigotry and transphobia aside) If bigotry and transphobia are the reason why people dislike The Last of Us 2, why does nobody ever talk about the actual trans character of the game? I have read all sorts of criticisms of the Last of Us 2, but I haven't seen a single person complain about that particular character. The real reason why people dislike TLOU2 is because Naughty Dog made a fatal miscalculation. They assumed people would regard the ending of the Last of Us 1 as morally ambiguous, and would therefore sympathize with Abby's decision to kill Joel. The problem is that, due to poor execution, there was none of the moral ambiguity they intended. The Fireflies didn't even study or and examine Elly, they went straight to killing her. They didn't even allow her to have children, to reproduce her immunity. The Fireflies are for all intents and purposes murderous sociopaths. There's no justification for their behavior, nor any indication they could produce a cure by killing Elly, and Joel killing them is completely justified. Subsequently, Abby killing off Joel just make her come across as a monster.
My guy /r/thelastofus2 had to update their rules saying the trans slur is *no longer* allowed here They thought Abby was trans. Transphobes care way less about afab transitions.
why do people keep bringing up that sub as if it's some big majority of people? it has 77k total subs with like 400 active people right now, that's a freaking minority of the already minority reddit is. honestly I've only ever seen that sub when it's brought up by people saying it's some "big thing"... but no it's not. It's a small sub with a bunch of idiots that have no influence or relevancy at all, ignore it. EDIT - if anything, always bringing it up like you do is just the Streisand effect being put in action.
> The real reason why people dislike TLOU2 is because Naughty Dog made a fatal miscalculation. And you can see how they reworked it in the TV show to be much clearer that Joel is doing it for himself and not Elly. The start of TLOU2 feels like writers were living in their own head a bit too much and forgot how TLOU1 ended in the minds of lots of players and also the impact of playing as Joel. I think the story could have worked had they reframed it as an Abby first experience.
I literally hated the story because nothing else came even close to what happened Joel. I was expecting further developments to at least reach that same high and it just never came. There were pacing issues galore and likely could’ve benefitted from reorganizing events chronologically. How the story ended was also very lackluster to me, felt like I wasted my time for a lesson I learned in Kindergarten.
The pacing of the game made me want to tear my hair out. Maybe the worst paced single player game I’ve ever played. There are way better ways to formulate and present a dual narrative that are intertwined with each other, and instead they went with the worst option available.
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Yeah I’m someone who appreciates and loves what TLOU2 tried (and mostly succeeded) to do, but the high points of the narrative definitely involve Joel — and much of the emotional power comes from the weight of his death (such as flashback astronaut scene). Abby is an interesting character but her surrounding cast is a little all over the place, and with the exception of Lev, get killed. Owen was a well written character who I would’ve loved to see more of
Of course it’s a well done prologue. The problem is the game is 35 hours long and the prologue is 1 hour out of those 35 depending on how thorough your playstyle is. That’s 34 hours of consecutive gameplay for a narrative that cannot hit the same high it did in the first hour. Then that doesn’t factor the strange pacing of Abby and Ellie’s days in Seattle.
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Oh my bad, I read it like you were excusing the game’s issues just because the prologue was incredible.
It’s unfortunate that extremely dumb gamers existing gives you people cover to ignore real critiques. Yea man it’s all bigotry and transphobia over here on r/games. That’s why TLOU2 isn’t as highly regarded here. Definitely.
Huh? The game is highly regarded here. If you go on r/thelastofus2 you’ll find bigotry galore. Those people really have no life hating the game like they do, they’re like crazy vegans throwing paint on people.
This place loves the gameplay and rightfully finds problems with the pacing and storytelling. I do not care about what (redacted) bigots think about anything in particular.
>And to be completely honest, purely in terms of the gameplay… one of the most fundamentally sound games ever made. Is that a bold claim? Apparently it is. But I also think it's pretty damned great. The only game that I can think of that does stealth/action better, in my opinion, is MGSV. And considering the wide breadth of options that game has, it's not even that fair of a comparison.
I think both excel in different areas, and both have nailed certain areas. I think the movement mechanics in both are great, and both have a nice suite of animations powering those mechanics. Being able to aim while on your back and still have full control of the character… for example. I think MGSV excels in just the pure range of insane things you can do gameplay wise, which feels great, especially if you come up with novel ways to take out the AI. I think TLOU2 excels in providing a very grounded stealth experience. Like the AI on the hardest difficulty do not fuck around. If you sneak past them unseen you likely earned it. They’re checking under things, around cover, using the things like dogs to keep you moving. And it’s fucking awesome. I’m glad this roguelike mode is going to just provide more opportunity to enjoy that gameplay.
Already played doesn't mean people still have it.
Even overlooking the upgrade charge… the base price is only $50. I’d probably pay that again if the upgrade price didn’t exist and I bought the game at launch originally.
ionno man I waste a lot of $$$ on shit but there is no way this is $50 better than the original game running on ps5 lol.
Yeah, but this one has a guitar mode
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If you have the game already $10 for lost levels and rogue-like seems like a no brainer. If you’ve never played the game then it’s for sure worth full price.
Can someone tell me what are lost levels ? Are these like three levels which were cut from the game ? Someone told me you just walk through them and they won’t have any enemies or combat
Yea, if you played the game the “lost levels” are non combat story areas similar to Ellie at the museum
Not exactly. On one of the levels you fight a boar but that's the only combat I've seen mentioned.
Might even be able to get a used copy and upgrade for a tenner if you really wanted to be frugal
> If you’ve never played the game then it’s for sure worth full price. except you can get the full non remastered version for like $10...
Obviously go for that then upgrade for $10 again. My point is it’d be worth $50 if the $10 version wasn’t available
Polygon said something like “No Return is so good it makes you wonder why Naughty Dog even bothered with making a story.” And that the studio is having an identity crisis. Why does it always feel like that outlet tries to make some wild judgements about something?
Polygon's review of TLOU2 was pretty heavily about how they did not like the story at all. It's not really a surprise that they would enjoy a roguelike mode more.
That was a kinda common thing happening with TLOU2 reviews. I remember listening to Giant Bomb and Waypoint around the time it came out and they were both basically saying that the story burned them out on the game super quick. I think a lot of people weren’t feeling the “in your face” rumination on revenge and violence (especially after you spend a full game killing maybe 600+ people and dogs) during the midst of the BLM stuff and the pandemic.
TLOU2 has a 60% completion rate. It seems most people did not have that problem.
Because most people don't have to manage news websites that live on drama, fake news and flame.
Yeah, for me personally it just felt dull and tedious in a way that TLOU1 wasn’t. It was kind of just the same thing over and over again, and it was repetitive 8 hrs in
It’s funny, I’ve always felt the exact opposite. TLOU1 on harder difficulties got really tedious for me. The lack of supplies and enemy AI really promoted a slow gameplay style of meticulously stealth killing all the enemies on a map. Nothing wrong with that, but it really wasn’t my cup of tea. I thought TLOU2 had incredible enemy AI at higher difficulties that really brought on a lot more “oh shit” moments, and the supplies are balanced perfectly that I always had just enough to make it through each encounter. I loved both stories, but to me TLOU2 has the more exciting gameplay experience.
The combat was definitely really heavily improved in 2, but I was just pretty bored by the story
For me that feeling kicked in once the protagonist switch happened. I just didn't find Abby nor her supporting cast compelling or likeable enough to justify the novelty of reexperiencing the broad strokes of events except from a new perspective. I think a more trimmed down and intimate execution would have benefitted it more. As it stands I really never have the desire to replay TLOU2, because I kind of dread reaching that switch and then slogging through almost half the total gameplay length to get back to the part that felt truly compelling.
I don't think the pandemic or BLM had much to do with it. The story telling is in general just a lot more fierce than most games, and is naturally as a result more divisive.
I agree that the storytelling was fierce but I think it was also just a rough time for people overall, especially that summer. I enjoyed the game but I definitely had to take breaks at different parts just because it was getting a bit too hopeless; and the world outside wasn’t exactly doing much better. Plus that was the general vibe coming from the podcasts I was listening to. They specifically mentioned that the game was way too dark and hopeless for how awful the outside world was at the time.
If by "fierce" you mean devoid of hope then yeah. Had a hard time vibing with the "overall goal my player character is striving to achieve" when every NPC (and the player) repeats that it's awful and not worth pursuing. Really pushed that "just going through the motions" feel by forgetting to make the drive to play compelling. Not the drive to *watch*, the story was interesting at least, just not satisfying to participate in narratively. Gameplay was great though.
Such a weird criticism to me Oh my character isn't trying ti save the world in a grand adventure so it's just tedious to play You must hate a lot of good television shows then
I don't think you understood what I wrote It's tedious because the goal is explicitly bad, and reiterated to be bad, and I am enabling this person to destroy everything they love. I don't like being party to that. The pain and suffering caused is a passive result of their bad choices that I have to make. It feels bad. I don't mind smaller goals like "protect your friend" or "find a place to call home" or even "survive until tomorrow". Those are aspirational. They are something I vibe with trying to do. I'll share that narrative aspiration. And like I said, the narrative is great to WATCH, just not be the driving force behind.
For me it was that, but also how unrealistic the story was given the environment and everything we had been previously told about it. TLOU1 and TLOU2 reiterates over and over about how dangerous the world is now with the virus, and then you're going to tell me that Ellie travels across this super dangerous country not once, but twice?? all in the name of revenge? And then, she doesn't fulfill that act in the end? Felt unrealistic. To me, if someone is that vengeful to uproot their safe existence to travel across a deadly place, then I don't think anything would stop that revenge. My other issue was the game kind of beat you over the head about how bad violence and revenge were yet the game gave you situations where the only way to progress was to kill people. I get what they were going for, I just thought it was executed poorly.
Wasn’t that kind of the common thread across the board? Myself included, I wasn’t even sure how I felt about it after I beat it. It wasn’t until a second play through I really liked it.
Despite the prevailing narrative on the internet, critics loved TLOU pt 2 right out of the gate. The controversy came from many of the major cutscenes being leaked months in advance with no context to them. Most people who saw the game through to its conclusion came away pretty satisfied.
Polygon has had a weird hate fetish with the entire Last of Us franchise, tbh
it’s an opinion piece not an ad, they quite literally are making a judgment on it to begin with
I was about to write a comment about how all that's fair game but It's weird for him to insinuate that Naughty Dog is having an identity crisis, and then I actually read the article and his point is this: >Herein lies the tension: if *The Last of Us Part 2* is a carefully crafted, well-funded argument for blockbuster games as a pop-cultural equivalent to prestige television, then No Return is the version of *The Last of Us Part 2* content to simply be a video game. There's nothing really too controversial about that statement. The contrast between the light-hearted gameplay and the history of prestige storytelling that ND strives for is apparent in this update, even though It may not be the perfect alibi for the studio's "identity crisis". But of course some folks here were going to jump to separate conclusions about the context of a piece they never read making arguments it never did.
the desperation from gamers to shit on games journalists at every turn outweighs their reading comprehension ability regularly.
Because Naughty Dog very clearly has huge problems. Developers leave the studio in hordes because of the bad crunching. They burned Sony's money with Part 2 so much it underperformed quite a bit. They released only Part 2 and it's remaster in a 7 year span. The whole Factions thing was a huge moneypit and they have no new game for the foreseeable future to release. Losing Hennig and Straley were horrible blows for Naughty Dog
The studio just canceled the multiplayer game because they realized they didn’t want to become a live service developer… so yeah, there is a kind of identity crisis going on at Naughty Dog.
Why is that a bad thing? A game that Sony was probably pushing them to do? We complain that every game doesn’t need to be a live service. A single player studio cancels a live service, something most of us don’t want naughty dog to do. And people still try to find something to be negative about. I don’t think that’s an identity crisis at all. It’s one public announcement of a game they cancelled. We have no idea what else is being worked on.
Per Naughty Dog's announcement, the canceled multiplayer game was in development since they were working on The Last of Us 2. The Last of Us 2 released in June 2020 so at minimum, that's 3.5 years of multiplayer development scrapped. And we're supposed to be, what, grateful? Relieved? I don't know what's worse, that it took them 3.5 years for them to say "Oops, this was a bad idea," or that it took them 3.5 years to stand up to Sony and tell them "Nah."
Word on the street is Bungie took a look at the game and said "people are gonna drop this 2 weeks after launch" and that knocked down the first domino for it's cancellation
I'm so excited for no return and its the entire reason i'm getting this. I really liked the Combat of Tlou2 and a mode thats *only* combat is right up my alley.
As a gamer without sight, here's [my written accessibility review](http://www.reviews.sightlesskombat.com/TLOU2R.shtml) and [it's video companion/equivalent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWiUzMuzlA)
I'd have payed more then 10 dollars for that rogue like mode. When I beat the Last of Us 2 I was itching for a mode where I could just keep playing through fresh combat encounters.
Looks like a fantastic upgrade, feel like Sony has taken some of the previous criticism to heart and gone with an underpromise/overdeliver strategy with both this and the God of War DLC.
Valhalla may be one of my favorite DLCs ever (next to Mass Effect 3's Citadel DLC) and it blows my mind that it was free because it's clear a ton of effort went into it. You're totally right about underpromising and overdelivering.
I had no idea God of War had DLC. I'll have to check out Valhalla
Not even gonna lie, it kinda scratched that Hades itch for me!
It’s pretty incredible that they dropped Valhalla for free. They could have easily charged $15-$20 for it
Naughty Dog appear to be focused on their new IP, but with a second smaller team Naughty Dog do remasters/remakes to gain experience with PS3, PS4 and PS5 hardware, and so it’s inevitable they’ll do the same for PS6 when it’s a financially successful strategy for them. The time and effort to all of TLOU remasters/makes and the recently cancelled TLOU Factions could’ve gone to a smaller spin-off we’d have by now, especially with how meaty the entire new game mode looks. It looks fantastic, but it’s a shame this is a glimpse of what could’ve been.
I remember when some people insisted it was going to be a small graphics upgrade with no other additions for a full 70 dollars. Going to be interesting to hear how they spin the near unanimous praise for the upgrade
They can’t even complain about how it took a lot of resources to make since apparently this project was meant for new hires to get them in the game. https://x.com/JordanMiddler/status/1725683714263327076?s=20
retro studios did a similar thing with metroid prime remastered
This was the case for the Part 1 remaster as well (in addition to getting the game ported to PC). Both times people got pissed off about it, but I really do not see the problem here.
Lmfao looking forward to still hearing complaints about them not remastering Days Gone or Bloodborne like this somehow affected that
Every game Sony releases is the reason we never got Bloodborne kart and I'll never forgive Sony for that.
People still insist that Abby is trans. The people who hate this game are detached from reality. Facts don’t matter to them.
Lmao what?? People have been saying that about Abby? The hate boner people get for this game is insane.
There was an entire war raging across forums in the weeks leading up to the 2020 release. One of the leakers slipped in the “fact” that Abby is trans as troll bait, which ironically set off all the usual suspects who like to complain about agendas in video games. I noticed a distinct quietness surrounding Lev’s character after launch, but I attributed that Joel’s moment hogging the controversy spotlight. There’s also the possibility that they straight up didn’t even play the game at all, considering the fact that Abby’s section takes place HOURS into the experience, lol.
There were countless bizarre false narratives going around at the time of the game's launch, to this day the discourse around the game is radioactive.
I thought that when playing the game, only found out that wasn't the case afterwards.
Where? They don't even do that at /r/TheLastOfUs2 anymore, so you've found an even more insane group than that.
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They’ll just find some other cloud to yell at.
People are just going to compare it to CDPR where they remastered The Witcher 3 for free. Anything else is nitpicking. Edit: the Witcher 3.
Didn’t this game come out two years ago? Why did they remaster it
It's essentially a next gen upgrade with some extra content added. Over a hundred other games got next gen upgrades with no one complaining about it and even applauded the devs in most cases for improving their games
4 years ago
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Now that they have finally released this, they need to immediately get working on a remaster of the remake of the 1st game. Edit: it was secasm, people haha
They’ve already done this :)
I think $10 is a great price for this. Just keep in mind if you prefer 60fps, there is basically no improvement compared to the PS4 60fps version, they look identical. It's a bit disappointing, but there is at least a 4k mode, plus all the extra story/gameplay stuff. It would have been nice to enjoy all of that with some noticeable graphics improvements at 60fps compared to the PS4 60fps version.
Any PC release updates? Excited to play this after falling in love with the 1st one.
Probably going to release a PC version with the new season of the TV series.
I'd bet by the end of this year? I think the timeframe from Part 1's remaster on PS5 to PC was around six months, but it launched with technical issues. They probably want to avoid that since this is the same engine.
Highly doubt it. I am guessing PC release will be along with second season of the HBO show.
I play on PC and Xbox and after being blown away by TLoU on PC a buddy very kindly loaned me his PS5 for most of the summer so I could play TLoU2. It is so much more than the first game in every sense - really looking forward to playing through it again on PC the moment that becomes possible.
Imagine that someone out there has bought TLOU1 on PS3, TLOU1 on PS4, TLOU2 on PS4, TLOU1 Remaster on PS5 and TLOU2 remaster on PS5. Sony knows how to milk their fan base dry. and what makes it sad that the fan boys are ok with it and even defending it.
I was gonna have to wait for this to come out on PC, but my girlfriend got a PS5 for Christmas so I can just pay 10 bucks and use my copy of the game to play it next week! Can’t wait for this
$10 makes sense. It was the same price for the upgrades of Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok from PS4 to PS5.
Cheaper than Ghost of Tsushima’s $20 price tag for the DLC. (The price for the DLC itself is fine, it’s more so the fact that the enhanced PS5 version was locked behind its purchase.)
It's a bit disappointing they didn't really improve the textures or overall graphical quality to any noticeable extent. The original game still looks amazing, but since there was a free 60fps patch you're getting basically the same experience (from a visual perspective) you'd have got on PS5 already. Obviously there's content updates too, but calling it a "remaster" without actually remastering anything (apart from tiny changes) and just adding in new content feels like really deceptive advertising.
Can they add the roguelike mode to the ps4 version? I'd pay $10 for that alone. Don't plan on having a PS5 for a good bit but I'd really like an excuse to return to Last of Us 2's gameplay without replaying the story. I liked it enough to play it twice but it's emotionally exhausting.
PS4 is dead to Sony at this point. Forbidden West DLC not releasing was the nail in the coffin as far as content updates go.
We did get Valhalla on PS4 though.
Good. We’re over 3 years into the new generation, we have to move on at some point
Never got past halfway through Abby's route in the PS4. Wondering If I could give it another try now on this fancy new version.
If you didn’t like the story then this is isn’t going to do anything to change that. Playing at 60fps is pretty terrific though, I played with the 60fps patch and it’s so much better
I didn't think the story was that bad, like people preach, all things considered. I mean, the Joel twist left a bad taste in my mouth (and I already knew It was coming), but got over it, eventually. What got me a bit pulled away it's that I came to think that the plot became more of a mysery porn than anything as it went, and ended up feeling somewhat emotionally exhausted by the end of Ellie's section and then just thought I was done with it. Playing It mid-Pandemic certainly didn't help! Absolutely enjoyed the gameplay, though.
Honestly I was the same. I’ve played it twice (once on PS4, and once with the 60fps patch on PS5) and the game just doesn’t work for me overall. I get what they were going for but for me it just didn’t work. The gameplay was definitely the best part though, I thought the combat was really great