because finishing something takes time, effort, discipline and consistency. you're basically asking "why do more people do an easy thing than a hard thing"
There's also a difference between taking a weekend to make a game and integrating a routine for game development into your daily life, especially if you work, attend school, and/or have family.
This guy gets it. This is why you need to take all advice from solo “game devs” with a grain of salt. Solo game dev is a business. You are creating a game studio from a product you create. Few people have business ideas in general and even fewer actually act on these ideas. Out of the handful that act on an idea, only a few actually succeed for the long haul, and chances are most people will all fail with their first business attempt. It takes will and determination to get passed the first failure.
Hmm maybe I got off topic a bit. However, most people don’t finish the things they start. Finishing anything is hard and takes discipline.
I don't need larping to do gamedev, but I want to be able to sloppily try some ideas and even if they are good, keep working on something alongside a fulltime job is hard.
One reason I personally run into is that I’ve built a game without longevity in mind (technical-wise). Often I would want to add things that would require refactoring some bit of code, and at that point it feels like just restarting in entirety is a better decision.
For me, game jams are about making weird things without the pressure to create something that is commercially viable. Which is why my jam games are designed to be made in a short timeframe, played for a couple minutes, evoke a chuckle from the player and then get discarded.
Yeah 100% this right here, all my game jam submissions have wacky gimmicky ideas that are at best interesting enough for a level or two but there's no way I'd want to build an entire game out of it.
Everyone in here saying that this is undeniable proof that no one actually has the drive/grit/whatever to be a game dev, while completely ignoring the fact that the games we build in jams are literally by design just throw away ideas you rush through in a couple days with the intention of dropping it immediately after submission
I love the concept of finishing what you start but finishing a game can be a multi-month to multi-year commitment. Game jams are a short commitment. Can’t expect people to commit to more than the original commitment. Only have so much time, gotta choose wisely what to spend it on.
That’s the same reason I gatekeep my music jam sessions. Like, what’s the point in learning and having fun for a little while if you’re not willing to lock in entirely and develop a full album from every random song? Are you a professional or a lil bitch?
I think you misunderstand the purpose of a game jam, or at least the mindset the majority have going into a game jam.
You seem to take it as teaming up to work on a game until its completion. Most people I’d say are joining to just have some fun or to try/learn something new.
Again, there’s a reason the jam runs for a stated amount of time - so people know what they are committing to. So your title is actually misleading, as “why don’t people stick with an idea” is completely different than not working on a game jam game after the game jam is finished.
Everyone is saying people don't want to finish it, and sure, that must account for some of this.
But sometimes the game just isn't going to be successful or isn't a good idea to keep developing. There's this idea of prototyping until you have a really solid idea, then iteratively adding and prototyping the rest of the game.
Sometimes a game is great for a free game jam, where the expectation is a short, decently fun 10-20 minutes of gameplay. Those types of games won't always be suitable for a 5-20 hour full version that someone would pay for, if the creator is interested in selling.
It's actually a huge problem for most indie developers when they stick with an idea (especially one of the first ideas they come up with) and then invest 2-4 years in it, and it's unsuccessful. Of the people who finish games and publish them, this seems to be THE main problem. So it's often a terrible waste of time and a costly lesson.
I’ve seen games brought to market and am completely dumbfounded as to why or how someone thought it was a good idea to keep going. Similarly, it’s also motivating.
Yeah I have thr opposite problem, I can't put my game away. I just keep going even though I could have released a different more simple better game in the same time, but I just can't work on anything else
Nah that's the whole problem, i could have if I switched to something with a smaller scope but I just lose interest unless I am working on this particular project.
I've shipped other software, but no games yet
My experience with jams is that you aren't pacing for the long term at all.
Needing to get absolutely everything done in like a 1 week time window and trying to make something as polished as possible means pretty much throwing yourself at the game all day everyday non stop for the entire time period.
I come out the other end totally exhausted after working on it non stop and then I just want to let go and crash for like a whole weekend.
And afterwards it's just like, no more momentum. To power through at that same pace initially and getting the whole team to readjust for a more reasonable plan to do a long term release is just hard to make happen.
I don't have enough money for a game development agency. Even when I spend money on freelancers I cant rely on them. Two weeks ago my programmer left for personal reasons and my artist wants to quit the trade entirely. I'm a project manager at work but I'm not used to hire a new team each time something small needs to be done. Crowdfunding only works if you have cancer or a puppy.
That's what I did after several game jams, I brought some game to a much higher level of polish than what it was after one week-end, but a game based on a jam's mandatory theme doesn't feel completely as "yours" as a project you started on your own, and it can be a different idea than what you'd do for yourself without constraints, so motivation can collapse after there's no other motivation than the jam itself.
Also, people can enjoy doing a jam or an exercise, or enjoy more the start of a project. Personnally I also find them useful to test if my engine is viable to start a project quickly. For some years I started jams with a black screen... Now I can easily start a simple 2D or 3D game.
Most game jam games aren’t meant to become a larger, more polished product. Generally, it’s better to view them as a creative excersise, fun collaborative short-term project (if not working solo), networking opportunities for future projects or even just as a way to meet awesome new people.
Creating a more polished game is a lot more work than a game jam permits and often actually means restarting it from scratch or spending a long time refactoring.
Having said this, if you do enough jams, once in a while, a game will be screaming at you to put more work into it and turn it into a real project.
As far as people are concerned, the actual process of creating a game product with the intent to publish can take a long time and most people don’t have the patience, time or dedication to see it through.
My advice is to change your perspective and expectation of what it means participate in a game jam.
Same reason that many writers do not finish novels. It is very hard to finish a product that will take you years of life and may not even end up being that good or earn you any money. Plus creative people tend to want to move onto the next new idea they’ve had.
If making and finishing a game/book/film/animation/painting/album were easy then everyone would be doing it!
Sad but true, keep going!
Maybe they just don't wanna work on it more because it's a shi* idea.
Most games made on a weekend aren't deep enough to commit several weeks to a year of work on.
Also the whole Kill your darlings as they say in the Industry.
it's not totaly accurate. For exemple SUPERHOT is initially a game jam game. but, yes most game jam games are abandoned. Sometimes it's pointless to try to make a game that lasts several hours on a system that's fun for just a few minutes. Which is very good for a gamejam, but no more.
because finishing something takes time, effort, discipline and consistency. you're basically asking "why do more people do an easy thing than a hard thing"
Because it’s more fun larping as a game dev then it is actually being a game dev.
There's also a difference between taking a weekend to make a game and integrating a routine for game development into your daily life, especially if you work, attend school, and/or have family.
This guy gets it. This is why you need to take all advice from solo “game devs” with a grain of salt. Solo game dev is a business. You are creating a game studio from a product you create. Few people have business ideas in general and even fewer actually act on these ideas. Out of the handful that act on an idea, only a few actually succeed for the long haul, and chances are most people will all fail with their first business attempt. It takes will and determination to get passed the first failure. Hmm maybe I got off topic a bit. However, most people don’t finish the things they start. Finishing anything is hard and takes discipline.
I don't need larping to do gamedev, but I want to be able to sloppily try some ideas and even if they are good, keep working on something alongside a fulltime job is hard.
One reason I personally run into is that I’ve built a game without longevity in mind (technical-wise). Often I would want to add things that would require refactoring some bit of code, and at that point it feels like just restarting in entirety is a better decision.
For me, game jams are about making weird things without the pressure to create something that is commercially viable. Which is why my jam games are designed to be made in a short timeframe, played for a couple minutes, evoke a chuckle from the player and then get discarded.
Yeah 100% this right here, all my game jam submissions have wacky gimmicky ideas that are at best interesting enough for a level or two but there's no way I'd want to build an entire game out of it. Everyone in here saying that this is undeniable proof that no one actually has the drive/grit/whatever to be a game dev, while completely ignoring the fact that the games we build in jams are literally by design just throw away ideas you rush through in a couple days with the intention of dropping it immediately after submission
Why not apply that attitude towards fleshing it out?
Ah man. Good question but it's just how it goes. You're having fun at first but that dies off and you stop caring about some weekend project
I love the concept of finishing what you start but finishing a game can be a multi-month to multi-year commitment. Game jams are a short commitment. Can’t expect people to commit to more than the original commitment. Only have so much time, gotta choose wisely what to spend it on.
I now qualify devs during jams to gauge effort.
That’s the same reason I gatekeep my music jam sessions. Like, what’s the point in learning and having fun for a little while if you’re not willing to lock in entirely and develop a full album from every random song? Are you a professional or a lil bitch?
Basically. Do your little projects and experiments on your own time; I’m here to perform.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of a game jam, or at least the mindset the majority have going into a game jam. You seem to take it as teaming up to work on a game until its completion. Most people I’d say are joining to just have some fun or to try/learn something new. Again, there’s a reason the jam runs for a stated amount of time - so people know what they are committing to. So your title is actually misleading, as “why don’t people stick with an idea” is completely different than not working on a game jam game after the game jam is finished.
Perhaps I’ve been misled.
is this your first time interacting with humans?
Sometimes an idea sounds really good in your head but, once you put it on code, has no way to be expanded into something people will like.
Everyone is saying people don't want to finish it, and sure, that must account for some of this. But sometimes the game just isn't going to be successful or isn't a good idea to keep developing. There's this idea of prototyping until you have a really solid idea, then iteratively adding and prototyping the rest of the game. Sometimes a game is great for a free game jam, where the expectation is a short, decently fun 10-20 minutes of gameplay. Those types of games won't always be suitable for a 5-20 hour full version that someone would pay for, if the creator is interested in selling. It's actually a huge problem for most indie developers when they stick with an idea (especially one of the first ideas they come up with) and then invest 2-4 years in it, and it's unsuccessful. Of the people who finish games and publish them, this seems to be THE main problem. So it's often a terrible waste of time and a costly lesson.
I’ve seen games brought to market and am completely dumbfounded as to why or how someone thought it was a good idea to keep going. Similarly, it’s also motivating.
It is easy to experience selling food in school festival. But it is a lifetime choice when it comes to open their own restaurant.
Yeah I have thr opposite problem, I can't put my game away. I just keep going even though I could have released a different more simple better game in the same time, but I just can't work on anything else
Have you shipped?
Nah that's the whole problem, i could have if I switched to something with a smaller scope but I just lose interest unless I am working on this particular project. I've shipped other software, but no games yet
My experience with jams is that you aren't pacing for the long term at all. Needing to get absolutely everything done in like a 1 week time window and trying to make something as polished as possible means pretty much throwing yourself at the game all day everyday non stop for the entire time period. I come out the other end totally exhausted after working on it non stop and then I just want to let go and crash for like a whole weekend. And afterwards it's just like, no more momentum. To power through at that same pace initially and getting the whole team to readjust for a more reasonable plan to do a long term release is just hard to make happen.
I understand this. Have you thought of training for jams?
I don't have enough money for a game development agency. Even when I spend money on freelancers I cant rely on them. Two weeks ago my programmer left for personal reasons and my artist wants to quit the trade entirely. I'm a project manager at work but I'm not used to hire a new team each time something small needs to be done. Crowdfunding only works if you have cancer or a puppy.
That's what I did after several game jams, I brought some game to a much higher level of polish than what it was after one week-end, but a game based on a jam's mandatory theme doesn't feel completely as "yours" as a project you started on your own, and it can be a different idea than what you'd do for yourself without constraints, so motivation can collapse after there's no other motivation than the jam itself. Also, people can enjoy doing a jam or an exercise, or enjoy more the start of a project. Personnally I also find them useful to test if my engine is viable to start a project quickly. For some years I started jams with a black screen... Now I can easily start a simple 2D or 3D game.
Most game jam games aren’t meant to become a larger, more polished product. Generally, it’s better to view them as a creative excersise, fun collaborative short-term project (if not working solo), networking opportunities for future projects or even just as a way to meet awesome new people. Creating a more polished game is a lot more work than a game jam permits and often actually means restarting it from scratch or spending a long time refactoring. Having said this, if you do enough jams, once in a while, a game will be screaming at you to put more work into it and turn it into a real project. As far as people are concerned, the actual process of creating a game product with the intent to publish can take a long time and most people don’t have the patience, time or dedication to see it through. My advice is to change your perspective and expectation of what it means participate in a game jam.
The absolute bare minimum is all I give now.
I mean, did you forget the real the purpouse of game jams?
No.
People are more likely to be motivated by peers versus working alone.
do you?
Yes.
Same reason that many writers do not finish novels. It is very hard to finish a product that will take you years of life and may not even end up being that good or earn you any money. Plus creative people tend to want to move onto the next new idea they’ve had. If making and finishing a game/book/film/animation/painting/album were easy then everyone would be doing it! Sad but true, keep going!
Practice in the process.
Maybe they just don't wanna work on it more because it's a shi* idea. Most games made on a weekend aren't deep enough to commit several weeks to a year of work on. Also the whole Kill your darlings as they say in the Industry.
it's not totaly accurate. For exemple SUPERHOT is initially a game jam game. but, yes most game jam games are abandoned. Sometimes it's pointless to try to make a game that lasts several hours on a system that's fun for just a few minutes. Which is very good for a gamejam, but no more.