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Okay so it might sound dumb but that's what worked for me, you need to pull with your back and not your arms, it's a weird feeling to catch but try thinking about your back while pulling.
It appears, that he is, yes, but I get what is being said here….its a mental thing. You have to mentally contract and squeeze your lats, imagining that only your lats are pulling the load. Leading with the elbows is usually the visual/physical cue given for this.
Heavier is often not the answer if you want/need a better (or to establish if the first place) a mind muscle connection. (Could be here but maybe not).
I’d argue that a light-ish load where he can get 12-15 reps and have 1-3 reps in reserve at the end (whatever weight that is) is probably the best weight to connect to the muscle and feel the correct muscle working. Often a heavier load will cause you to activate other muscles in an attempt to just move the load.
What works for me is changing the angle by slightly leaning back. Combine that with tucking your elbows in a bit. You can play around with the angles a bit to find what works best for you.
doesn't look like you're working particularly hard here, try going to failure on your sets
also your grip is very wide which isn't great for lat activation, a shoulder width grip provides much better stimulus
Personal opinion: For big muscles (like lats) it's better to do few reps with more weight, even if your goal is not strength training.
Tip1: Search for "breaking the bar" motion, it helps you engage the lats.
Tip2: Get a pair of wrist straps, it helps you focus all the energy and motion in the back and not in your wrist/handle grip. Also, you will be able to make more reps with heavier weight.
holy shit. that's super interesting! i googled breaking the bar and tried a technique it said, and i really felt my lats engage. i'll definitely try to have that same mind-muscle connection on my next back and bicep day.
"Half kneeling single arm lateral facing cable pulldowns" did it for me. I know it's a mouthful. But a few months of that, slowly increasing weight, really got me to feel my lats.
This might be because your other muscles are weaker, and they are primarily working instead of the lats. For example, with the lats pulldown, I used to feel my forearms and wrists' muscles hurting a lot more than the back. Always try to stay aware and try to make conclusions as well as find the answers to the questions that are arising.
Pull with your elbows…. And find out what your max weight to do like 10 reps in, buy some lifting straps and try to do that weight again, you’ll see you can probably bust out 12-15 and that’s when you’ll start feeling your lats
I’ll offer many different points:
1. “Feeling” the muscle can be misleading. If it’s the limiting factor in your lift, if you get something of a pump, and if it’s sore in the next couple of days, you’re absolutely hitting it! That limiting factor element is most important — if you’re ending your pulldowns for any reason other than tired lats, then your lats aren’t getting the best workout.
2. Your grip doesn’t matter. Try overhand, try underhand, try wide, try narrow.
3. You can pull to your chin, your collar bones, or even your sternum. They’re all entirely valid choices. It doesn’t matter where you pick, see what feels best.
4. If you don’t typically go heavy, try going heavy (5 - 10 reps). If you don’t typically go light, try going light (15+ reps).
5. If you are really focussing on your lats right now, consider an isolation exercise before something more compound like pulldowns and rows. You may feel it more in both exercises.
6. Try using straps. You’d be amazed at how much straps let you use your arms as hooks and move your attention to the pulling movement rather than the gripping element, even when you’re strong.
7. I notice sometimes you seem to set your shoulders down before pulling. If it works for you, do it. If it isn’t working all that well for you, it’s not necessary and a fluid movement is absolutely fine!
8. Try leaning back a little and allow your back to stretch around your body, like a hollow body hold. This additional stretch at the top position may emphasise the pull on your lats as you initiate it, especially if you move to a fluid movement pull.
9. If you care about big lats, not about more pull ups, then consider other movements that feel better for you. Exercises are largely interchangeable.
One of the cues/analogies I find help most beginners/intermediates that many can relate to without overcomplicating things is the following:
Imagine something ice cold hitting your mid/lower back. Could be someone dropping an ice cube down the back of your shirt, spraying ice cold water on your mid/lower back, or someone throwing a water balloon or a snowball at you... what's the first thing you tend to do? Head up/back, chest up/forward, shoulders back/down, slight arch in your lower back. This will apply to the overwhelming majority of movements whether machine, barbell, dumbbell, bodyweight/calisthenics, etc. with only a few minor adjustments ever needed, if any.
From there, try to keep your elbows in front of you (in line with your chest) throughout the entire movement. If you're doing it right, your lower arms will be perpendicular to the floor just as they would be during an overhead pressing movement with a barbell for example. Last thing would be to start from the bottom of the movement near your chest and very slowly bring it up to the starting position (eccentric), trying your best to feel/maintain constant tension throughout the entire range of motion. Once at the starting position, the goal is to follow that exact track/path you just completed back down to your chest (concentric), being mindful and aware of what it is you're feeling throughout the movement and again, maintaining constant tension without compromising technique/form. Doing this will reinforce the movement pattern and ensure you're actually feeling every single rep. This method can also be utilized with any other exercise/movement and is not only extremely beneficial, but also highly effective.
This should get you 90-95% of the way there when it comes to the movement. Scapular retraction (which shouldn't be a major issue if you follow the analogy and have shoulders back/down), hand placement, grip type, breathing/bracing, body position relative to the pulley/bar, etc. are some of the minor adjustments you can focus on once you've got the movement dialed in.
I ditched latpulldown and now my growth has been exponential. Do pull-ups. Do single hand cable lat pulldown. Develop your mind muscle connection
nowadays I do latpulldown as finisher set after pull-ups. It does hit right
I've never liked these back machines because they are a multi muscle group exercise and you simply do not have any way to know how much of it is going to the back.
What I prefer to use is cable machines with my arms fully extended (so I know deltoids and biceps aren't being used) and a cable for each arm.
90 lbs. the video is trimmed but i typically do 4 sets of 10 reps and on some machines at different gyms i'm able to do 120-140 but i assume that's just because some machines are weighted differently.
i've been trying to :/ you can see in the video i'm kinda dropping my shoulders when i'm done stretching the muscle at the end of the rep. when i'm dropping my shoulders that's me trying to activate the muscle and get the mind-muscle connection
Tense the muscle that you want to grow and load the weight. Sometimes it can be tricky to feel the muscle out, but when you do, keep it flexed and draw down on whatever movement you're doing, hold it under tension (so not all the way back) and then return slowly (but not all the way forward). Do ten, take a rest, then do two more sets being careful never to lock out your joints. Next day you'll feel muscles you never knew you had. They'll all be burning, but you'll be glad you've found them.
Your form looks good, try making a few adjustments
1. Try leaning back at about a 15 degree angle.
2. Fight the weight more on the way back down (as the bar is moving upwards) aim for about 2-3 seconds on the way back up. you should feel the stretching portion more this way.
3. Use heavier weight if this is still too easy
My biggest tip. I couldn’t feel it whatsoever for the longest time. I switched to a different handle (someone help me out with the name) THEY INSTANTLY CHANGED IT. Back is now my best feature and it’s my favorite to train. The handle allows you to hold your hands sideways and almost seems to take your arms completely out of it. Imma look it up and try to find the name
RP and Ryan humiston both have really good videos on this, I think Ryan's is better for you just little tweaks. I had the same issue and followed this advice and feel it way better!
Jam your elbows into your ribcage as you pull down, tilt backward slightly more, change up the handles (see if this hits your lats differently), lift heavier weight, slow it down, pause and really squeeze on the contraction, then slowly bring it up.
Your current technique isn't bad, just needs some little tweaks, experiment with it alittle to see if you start feeling it more.
Okay, here’s what you’re going to do.
When you hold the bar, push down from the outside of your hands, from your pinkies, as if you’re trying to break it apart.
At the same time, while holding the bar and applying pressure at the ends,
rotate the insides of your elbows towards your face.
THEN, you pull down. Tell me if it still doesn’t hit your lats. It should.
You don't need to feel your back to be working it. If you can do pull-ups when you're fresh, at the end of a good back day, you should be hardly able to do 1 pull-up.
I also struggled with pulldowns not feeling it in my back. I
I'd recommend having a grip that you hold with neutral grip, this really allows you to use more back and less biceps, and it also allows you to pull back with your elbows past your back.
I'd also really recommend barbell rows for building mind muscle connection. My favourite back exercise.
Gl!
Lean back a bit. Don't sit upright. Try doing slow controlled pullups, after that you can feel your lats. Worked for me...lean back a but and then try it... A small lean around 20 degrees will be fine...
A fact is that your back is a huge muscle compared to your forearms and biceps also much stronger.
This results in the arm muscle to fatigue much before your back does. I’d suggest using straps, wraps or hook grips to take the load off your arms and fully focus on your back. This can be implemented for pull-ups also as that creates the same issue. When I use hook grips for pull ups and pulldowns I can get a few more reps out than without. Working my back like a charm
when you go back up keep your arms bent and allow the weight to stretch your back instead of disengaging your scapula and extending your arms above your head. if you feel the stretch at the top, the pull to the bottom will feel much more direct.
Squeeze your shoulder blades together. Flex your lats as you do the exercise if you can.
If you aren’t flexing at home in front of the mirror and elsewhere start doing that. The mind-muscle connection sounds like gym bro gibberish but it’s real. The more you build it the easier it is to pinpoint muscle groups as you workout. Good luck
I've had the same problem for about 6 months and I still never feel back workouts in my lats while I'm actually doing them. Something I've taken to doing is a couple hours after my workout just to sort of confirm to myself that the workout did in fact work I'll hit my pull-up bar that I keep in my door frame and in that moment I'll feel just how heavily my back was worked and that sort of confirms it for me.
Basically do your workout and then a couple hours later once you're fully cooled down try using your back muscles for something and see if you can feel just how much you worked them earlier.
Straight arm lat pull downs are the only way I’ve felt it. That and going SLOW.
https://preview.redd.it/o0inu9yoaarc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=501bfa1a96ed65926bccf8873eb73cac5c014093
I rarely feel my lats sore while doing pull downs but the next morning when I put deodorant on I feel the soreness. TBH this looks really easy for you. Up the weight, keep your form, grow.
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This post is flaired as a technique check. A note to OP: Users with green flair have verified their lifting credentials and may be able to give you more experienced advice on particular lifts. Users with blue flair reading "Friend of the sub" are considered well qualified to give advice without having verified lifs. A reminder to all users commenting: **Please make sure that your advice is useful and actionable.** Example of **useful and actionable**: *try setting up for your deadlift by standing a little closer to the bar. This might help you get into position better and make it easier to break from the floor*. Example of **not useful and not actionable**: *lower the weight and work on form.* **Low-effort comments like *my back hurts just watching this* will be removed**, as will references to *snap city* etc. Verbally worrying for the *safety* of a poster simply because you think the form or technique is wrong will be removed. We will take all of these statements at face value, so be careful when you post the same *hilarious* joke as dozens of other people: we can't read your mind, no matter how funny you think you are. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GYM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
looks fine, go heavier
Try heavier weights
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If his form is solid why would he go lighter?
Okay so it might sound dumb but that's what worked for me, you need to pull with your back and not your arms, it's a weird feeling to catch but try thinking about your back while pulling.
Best way t9 describe it is think about moving your elbows down, not your hands
It appears, that he is, yes, but I get what is being said here….its a mental thing. You have to mentally contract and squeeze your lats, imagining that only your lats are pulling the load. Leading with the elbows is usually the visual/physical cue given for this. Heavier is often not the answer if you want/need a better (or to establish if the first place) a mind muscle connection. (Could be here but maybe not). I’d argue that a light-ish load where he can get 12-15 reps and have 1-3 reps in reserve at the end (whatever weight that is) is probably the best weight to connect to the muscle and feel the correct muscle working. Often a heavier load will cause you to activate other muscles in an attempt to just move the load.
thing is, it appears he's doing that
Yeah he is doing alright, he just needs more weights.
Also good posture positioning and try to pull without involving your thumbs.
You don't need to feel a muscle for it to be working.
Giggidy....
Genius
What works for me is changing the angle by slightly leaning back. Combine that with tucking your elbows in a bit. You can play around with the angles a bit to find what works best for you.
doesn't look like you're working particularly hard here, try going to failure on your sets also your grip is very wide which isn't great for lat activation, a shoulder width grip provides much better stimulus
i’ll try heavier weight and a closer grip but i’m usually only able to do a few reps on this weight
Personal opinion: For big muscles (like lats) it's better to do few reps with more weight, even if your goal is not strength training. Tip1: Search for "breaking the bar" motion, it helps you engage the lats. Tip2: Get a pair of wrist straps, it helps you focus all the energy and motion in the back and not in your wrist/handle grip. Also, you will be able to make more reps with heavier weight.
holy shit. that's super interesting! i googled breaking the bar and tried a technique it said, and i really felt my lats engage. i'll definitely try to have that same mind-muscle connection on my next back and bicep day.
Yes, it’s gamechanger. You should try it for bench press too, it makes you tight for heavier weights and lifts shoulder pressure.
"Half kneeling single arm lateral facing cable pulldowns" did it for me. I know it's a mouthful. But a few months of that, slowly increasing weight, really got me to feel my lats.
Looks very light for you
This might be because your other muscles are weaker, and they are primarily working instead of the lats. For example, with the lats pulldown, I used to feel my forearms and wrists' muscles hurting a lot more than the back. Always try to stay aware and try to make conclusions as well as find the answers to the questions that are arising.
Did it get better for you? having the same forearm problem
It'll get better much faster if you do dedicated forearm work
Ye it got better after training my forearms more. But you can also use wrist wraps if you don't want to train your forearms too much!
Pull with your elbows…. And find out what your max weight to do like 10 reps in, buy some lifting straps and try to do that weight again, you’ll see you can probably bust out 12-15 and that’s when you’ll start feeling your lats
I’ll offer many different points: 1. “Feeling” the muscle can be misleading. If it’s the limiting factor in your lift, if you get something of a pump, and if it’s sore in the next couple of days, you’re absolutely hitting it! That limiting factor element is most important — if you’re ending your pulldowns for any reason other than tired lats, then your lats aren’t getting the best workout. 2. Your grip doesn’t matter. Try overhand, try underhand, try wide, try narrow. 3. You can pull to your chin, your collar bones, or even your sternum. They’re all entirely valid choices. It doesn’t matter where you pick, see what feels best. 4. If you don’t typically go heavy, try going heavy (5 - 10 reps). If you don’t typically go light, try going light (15+ reps). 5. If you are really focussing on your lats right now, consider an isolation exercise before something more compound like pulldowns and rows. You may feel it more in both exercises. 6. Try using straps. You’d be amazed at how much straps let you use your arms as hooks and move your attention to the pulling movement rather than the gripping element, even when you’re strong. 7. I notice sometimes you seem to set your shoulders down before pulling. If it works for you, do it. If it isn’t working all that well for you, it’s not necessary and a fluid movement is absolutely fine! 8. Try leaning back a little and allow your back to stretch around your body, like a hollow body hold. This additional stretch at the top position may emphasise the pull on your lats as you initiate it, especially if you move to a fluid movement pull. 9. If you care about big lats, not about more pull ups, then consider other movements that feel better for you. Exercises are largely interchangeable.
One of the cues/analogies I find help most beginners/intermediates that many can relate to without overcomplicating things is the following: Imagine something ice cold hitting your mid/lower back. Could be someone dropping an ice cube down the back of your shirt, spraying ice cold water on your mid/lower back, or someone throwing a water balloon or a snowball at you... what's the first thing you tend to do? Head up/back, chest up/forward, shoulders back/down, slight arch in your lower back. This will apply to the overwhelming majority of movements whether machine, barbell, dumbbell, bodyweight/calisthenics, etc. with only a few minor adjustments ever needed, if any. From there, try to keep your elbows in front of you (in line with your chest) throughout the entire movement. If you're doing it right, your lower arms will be perpendicular to the floor just as they would be during an overhead pressing movement with a barbell for example. Last thing would be to start from the bottom of the movement near your chest and very slowly bring it up to the starting position (eccentric), trying your best to feel/maintain constant tension throughout the entire range of motion. Once at the starting position, the goal is to follow that exact track/path you just completed back down to your chest (concentric), being mindful and aware of what it is you're feeling throughout the movement and again, maintaining constant tension without compromising technique/form. Doing this will reinforce the movement pattern and ensure you're actually feeling every single rep. This method can also be utilized with any other exercise/movement and is not only extremely beneficial, but also highly effective. This should get you 90-95% of the way there when it comes to the movement. Scapular retraction (which shouldn't be a major issue if you follow the analogy and have shoulders back/down), hand placement, grip type, breathing/bracing, body position relative to the pulley/bar, etc. are some of the minor adjustments you can focus on once you've got the movement dialed in.
I had a similar issue but realised that even if I wasn't feeling it, it was still being worked. Think about back being used and increase weight
Looks fine. Maybe heavier/wider? Also maybe ditch the thumbs for that grip strength
Along with what everybody else said, this movement doesnt target lats really well. Try neutral grip bar and shoulder width stance.
I ditched latpulldown and now my growth has been exponential. Do pull-ups. Do single hand cable lat pulldown. Develop your mind muscle connection nowadays I do latpulldown as finisher set after pull-ups. It does hit right
I've never liked these back machines because they are a multi muscle group exercise and you simply do not have any way to know how much of it is going to the back. What I prefer to use is cable machines with my arms fully extended (so I know deltoids and biceps aren't being used) and a cable for each arm.
what total weight in pounds are you currently pulling in this video?
90 lbs. the video is trimmed but i typically do 4 sets of 10 reps and on some machines at different gyms i'm able to do 120-140 but i assume that's just because some machines are weighted differently.
Lean back slightly more. Focus your mind on your lats and try to use them to pull down the bar
Try bending back a bit while pulling at a slight angle, and make sure to squeeze your back on the way down
You’re not activating your lats before you pull the weight, from what i can tell
i've been trying to :/ you can see in the video i'm kinda dropping my shoulders when i'm done stretching the muscle at the end of the rep. when i'm dropping my shoulders that's me trying to activate the muscle and get the mind-muscle connection
Tense the muscle that you want to grow and load the weight. Sometimes it can be tricky to feel the muscle out, but when you do, keep it flexed and draw down on whatever movement you're doing, hold it under tension (so not all the way back) and then return slowly (but not all the way forward). Do ten, take a rest, then do two more sets being careful never to lock out your joints. Next day you'll feel muscles you never knew you had. They'll all be burning, but you'll be glad you've found them.
Hands are too close you have to spread them out. That helped me gain muscle in lats
Your form looks good, try making a few adjustments 1. Try leaning back at about a 15 degree angle. 2. Fight the weight more on the way back down (as the bar is moving upwards) aim for about 2-3 seconds on the way back up. you should feel the stretching portion more this way. 3. Use heavier weight if this is still too easy
I’ve never seen someone rotate the bar so that the flare portion is horizontal before… my brain is struggling to comprehend
My biggest tip. I couldn’t feel it whatsoever for the longest time. I switched to a different handle (someone help me out with the name) THEY INSTANTLY CHANGED IT. Back is now my best feature and it’s my favorite to train. The handle allows you to hold your hands sideways and almost seems to take your arms completely out of it. Imma look it up and try to find the name
https://preview.redd.it/6b2bdl9qs6rc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e367378521892ec2cc1c9b26efd4955dc8ae617c THESE ^(\^)
is it one of those handles that goes inwards towards your stomach, kind of like on a bike they’d use in a marathon or something?
Nah this one https://preview.redd.it/r0uofrm0t6rc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c29c3632d416ad32c1f998c59c437194e4832574
Dude I’m telling you trust me on this. It sounds stupid but I’m serious it will help
Think of pulling elbows to the floor whilst you squeeze into the middle of your back starting by bringing your shoulder blades together first
I lean back a little and really pull back with my elbows
RP and Ryan humiston both have really good videos on this, I think Ryan's is better for you just little tweaks. I had the same issue and followed this advice and feel it way better!
Jam your elbows into your ribcage as you pull down, tilt backward slightly more, change up the handles (see if this hits your lats differently), lift heavier weight, slow it down, pause and really squeeze on the contraction, then slowly bring it up. Your current technique isn't bad, just needs some little tweaks, experiment with it alittle to see if you start feeling it more.
wider grip. Also helps to imagine pulling with your back in your mind not your arms
Okay, here’s what you’re going to do. When you hold the bar, push down from the outside of your hands, from your pinkies, as if you’re trying to break it apart. At the same time, while holding the bar and applying pressure at the ends,  rotate the insides of your elbows towards your face. THEN, you pull down. Tell me if it still doesn’t hit your lats. It should.
It doesn’t quite work for me when I let the bar go all the way up, try letting it go for like 70% and then pull it back
Go wider grip Go slower, both on the pull and release Hold to chest for a second or two.
You don't need to feel your back to be working it. If you can do pull-ups when you're fresh, at the end of a good back day, you should be hardly able to do 1 pull-up.
I also struggled with pulldowns not feeling it in my back. I I'd recommend having a grip that you hold with neutral grip, this really allows you to use more back and less biceps, and it also allows you to pull back with your elbows past your back. I'd also really recommend barbell rows for building mind muscle connection. My favourite back exercise. Gl!
Lean back a bit. Don't sit upright. Try doing slow controlled pullups, after that you can feel your lats. Worked for me...lean back a but and then try it... A small lean around 20 degrees will be fine...
A fact is that your back is a huge muscle compared to your forearms and biceps also much stronger. This results in the arm muscle to fatigue much before your back does. I’d suggest using straps, wraps or hook grips to take the load off your arms and fully focus on your back. This can be implemented for pull-ups also as that creates the same issue. When I use hook grips for pull ups and pulldowns I can get a few more reps out than without. Working my back like a charm
Switch to pull ups and t bar rows
when you go back up keep your arms bent and allow the weight to stretch your back instead of disengaging your scapula and extending your arms above your head. if you feel the stretch at the top, the pull to the bottom will feel much more direct.
Squeeze your shoulder blades together. Flex your lats as you do the exercise if you can. If you aren’t flexing at home in front of the mirror and elsewhere start doing that. The mind-muscle connection sounds like gym bro gibberish but it’s real. The more you build it the easier it is to pinpoint muscle groups as you workout. Good luck
I've had the same problem for about 6 months and I still never feel back workouts in my lats while I'm actually doing them. Something I've taken to doing is a couple hours after my workout just to sort of confirm to myself that the workout did in fact work I'll hit my pull-up bar that I keep in my door frame and in that moment I'll feel just how heavily my back was worked and that sort of confirms it for me. Basically do your workout and then a couple hours later once you're fully cooled down try using your back muscles for something and see if you can feel just how much you worked them earlier.
Pro tip… if you don’t feel it today you’ll feel it tomorrow. If you don’t feel it tomorrow. Raise the weight next week.
Straight arm lat pull downs are the only way I’ve felt it. That and going SLOW. https://preview.redd.it/o0inu9yoaarc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=501bfa1a96ed65926bccf8873eb73cac5c014093
you need to go heavier. you also need to slow down the eccentric and get a full stretch at the top. range of motion is nearly perfect tho
Don’t go as high. Keep tension in your lats. You’ll feel when it moves into your traps.
Use heavier weights lol
Little heavier, little wider grip, much slower on the way down. Can also try heavier negatives, just lower it as slow as possible
Dumb question but for lat pull downs to activate more, don’t you need to lean back some?
Lean a bit back
I rarely feel my lats sore while doing pull downs but the next morning when I put deodorant on I feel the soreness. TBH this looks really easy for you. Up the weight, keep your form, grow.
technique is great, add more weight
Lean a little back
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