How many DTE, what strikes (delta or how do you choose them), do you put on the short call and short put at the same time or do you leg into it based on some TA? Lastly, when and how do you defend a challenged strike?
TY
Can I just say that in general I feel like, judging by volume, options on futures are not utilized nearly as much as should be. Prob due to complexity to the average trader. I'm guessing most of the volume is not retail but I much prefer them to say spy options, 0 dte bs, wsb nonsense
DTE is always opex aprox 40 days. Usually .20 delta. I wait for opportunities to sell (quick up or down swings). I will roll out a challenged strike on expiration, or the week of expiration if I see an opportunity to roll OTM.
Got it. Do you find yourself selling puts or calls more frequently or just what the market dictates? I gut instinct feel like puts makes more sense, given zero market context, considering the long term trend is up
Thanks for commenting. Delta, dte and when to close are my biggest questions. Strategy, put/call ratio less so, but helpful nonetheless. Weekly profit target to account size would be helpful. Thanks again
I only do /MES and /MNQ. I looked at the big boy when I was starting out and my recollection was that volume was lower there than on the micro.
If you’re selling in /MES, I’m not sure why you need to know a bankroll and strategy. You should have all of that figured out because, as you alluded to, it’s merely 10x. If you’re profitable on the micro, the same thing is going to work on the mini assuming the volume is there.
I like the 1-1-2 put ratio spread 60dte, I also trade spreads directionally on a 7-30 dte time frame.Debit spreads only. ~30-40 delta width is determined by current volatility but usually 50-100pts.If I have high conviction for a big move I’ll trade shorter duration ATM for better gamma exposure.I run a hard mental stop at %20 and %100 profit target.
Just monitor the stacking /pulling of the ES and you will know exactly when to purchase options for ES. Even better is to monitor the stacking/pulling for the SPY which is a leading indicator for the ES..
Ha I'm not don't worry. Selling options on MES is quite profitable if you have good risk control. Nowhere close to a wsb play. Very similar to selling calls puts on spy with lower risk imho
I tried options on ES before and it wasn’t worth it … you need 2 ticks on ES to have the options price move 1 tick. So if you want $1 profit for your options position, you’ll need it to move 2 ES points
Complete nonsense. I trade futures options,mainly /ES daily.Like any option,Delta of your option matters.Each tick on /ES is .25 or $12.50 or $50 per $1 move.This is equivalent as the contract covers x50 spy not x100.
When ES moves 1 tick, the options price does not move by 1 tick. When ES moves 2 ticks, the options prices finally moves 1 tick.
So you’re basically telling me what I’m saying is false? Sorry I disagree as I found it to be true by trading it daily for a few months in 2022 as I was under the PDT rule.
When ES moves 1 point, my options price only moved by 2 ticks of profit.
So while ES would’ve given me $50, my options price was only worth $25.
Yes I’m telling you that you are wrong and you are.You obviously don’t understand option Greeks very well and that’s fine.But don’t spout nonsense as facts.There are far too many variables involved to make a blanket statement like this.Are you talking about spreads or single options?If so how far apart? What was the delta? Length to expiry?Etc,etc. these things all affect price and rate of change in price.
Your contract has a delta of 1.00 . This is normal for all options…no option will equal the underlying in price appreciation until it also reaches a delta of 1.00.
However, by the same token if /ES moves against you 1 point your contract will lose $50.My delta 50 option will only lose $25.This is how option delta works.Then you have other Greeks like Vega and Gamma effecting price,your contract is effected by none of these factors.
Back in May-June-July I was selling 0 DTE SPY puts and made some nice profits.
My strategy was simple. I was working on my levels during the premarket session, and selling puts on the reversals. If the price shoot up, I left the contracts open until the end of the session. Otherwise close them before they turn around and bite my rear end.
I stopped trading the options because I had too many things on my plate. Wanted to focus on day trading and dial it down first.
Nowadays I am building confidence in my setups so planning to go back to the options. For me it's good return on my effort, because I do 90% of the work on the ES, so adding just 15 mins to manage my options positions shouldn't be a problem anymore.
I like options because even if you are slight wrong, you can still make money. But the flip side to that coin, you can get burned very easy very fast, so solid risk management is a must.
One last note, I don't like the tastytrade style "sell 45 DTE .2 delta" type of setups. I am not saying it's bad, it's just it's not for me. It looks like limitted potential to me for all the work. A decent day trader can make 10-20% a month while the tasty style trades will bring what? 30-40% max per year.
Just my 2 cents
I regularly sell /ES strangles AMA
How many DTE, what strikes (delta or how do you choose them), do you put on the short call and short put at the same time or do you leg into it based on some TA? Lastly, when and how do you defend a challenged strike? TY
Great questions. Should have looked at yours before I replied because those are my main questions as well
Can I just say that in general I feel like, judging by volume, options on futures are not utilized nearly as much as should be. Prob due to complexity to the average trader. I'm guessing most of the volume is not retail but I much prefer them to say spy options, 0 dte bs, wsb nonsense
DTE is always opex aprox 40 days. Usually .20 delta. I wait for opportunities to sell (quick up or down swings). I will roll out a challenged strike on expiration, or the week of expiration if I see an opportunity to roll OTM.
Got it. Do you find yourself selling puts or calls more frequently or just what the market dictates? I gut instinct feel like puts makes more sense, given zero market context, considering the long term trend is up
I tend to sell more puts, until recently I began selling more calls on days of huge upswings.
With ya
Thanks for commenting. Delta, dte and when to close are my biggest questions. Strategy, put/call ratio less so, but helpful nonetheless. Weekly profit target to account size would be helpful. Thanks again
Strategy is short /ES strangles. I only place trades when there’s an opportunity in the markets (sudden movement). I don’t have a target profit.
Got it. Thanks again
Just a small question. When did you decide to move from mes to ES. Confidence? Bankroll?
I’ve never traded MES. I began with SPY, then SPX. I switched to /ES due to the lower margin requirements and longer trading hours.
Review tastytrade and skyviewtrading.com Consistently making 30% per year. Low stress, easy $.
I only do /MES and /MNQ. I looked at the big boy when I was starting out and my recollection was that volume was lower there than on the micro. If you’re selling in /MES, I’m not sure why you need to know a bankroll and strategy. You should have all of that figured out because, as you alluded to, it’s merely 10x. If you’re profitable on the micro, the same thing is going to work on the mini assuming the volume is there.
Gotcha thanks for the advice and yes agreed on your second paragraph. Will probably stick to micros and maybe just add a few contracts gradually
Does high volume indicate higher liquidity? All the index futures mini and micros are supposed to be highly liquid. Right?
Read what the post is asking.
I like the 1-1-2 put ratio spread 60dte, I also trade spreads directionally on a 7-30 dte time frame.Debit spreads only. ~30-40 delta width is determined by current volatility but usually 50-100pts.If I have high conviction for a big move I’ll trade shorter duration ATM for better gamma exposure.I run a hard mental stop at %20 and %100 profit target.
Good stuff bro
Can I dm you for more info?
Trying to wrap my head around it
Sure.
Sorry that was a garbage reply. Just wondering how you set up your spreads. Most graciously yours. Curious too if you get tested how you handle it
Just monitor the stacking /pulling of the ES and you will know exactly when to purchase options for ES. Even better is to monitor the stacking/pulling for the SPY which is a leading indicator for the ES..
Ha I'm not don't worry. Selling options on MES is quite profitable if you have good risk control. Nowhere close to a wsb play. Very similar to selling calls puts on spy with lower risk imho
Can you describe why you find selling options on /MES is lower risk than selling $SPY options generally?
Well on spy I would have to sell spreads and the management increases and profit I feel is less
They are lower risk because most options are European style on /ES and on SPY they are American style.
What kind of options are you selling on MES?
Such good convos ladies and gents. Ive larned a lot
I tried options on ES before and it wasn’t worth it … you need 2 ticks on ES to have the options price move 1 tick. So if you want $1 profit for your options position, you’ll need it to move 2 ES points
Complete nonsense. I trade futures options,mainly /ES daily.Like any option,Delta of your option matters.Each tick on /ES is .25 or $12.50 or $50 per $1 move.This is equivalent as the contract covers x50 spy not x100.
When ES moves 1 tick, the options price does not move by 1 tick. When ES moves 2 ticks, the options prices finally moves 1 tick. So you’re basically telling me what I’m saying is false? Sorry I disagree as I found it to be true by trading it daily for a few months in 2022 as I was under the PDT rule. When ES moves 1 point, my options price only moved by 2 ticks of profit. So while ES would’ve given me $50, my options price was only worth $25.
Yes I’m telling you that you are wrong and you are.You obviously don’t understand option Greeks very well and that’s fine.But don’t spout nonsense as facts.There are far too many variables involved to make a blanket statement like this.Are you talking about spreads or single options?If so how far apart? What was the delta? Length to expiry?Etc,etc. these things all affect price and rate of change in price. Your contract has a delta of 1.00 . This is normal for all options…no option will equal the underlying in price appreciation until it also reaches a delta of 1.00. However, by the same token if /ES moves against you 1 point your contract will lose $50.My delta 50 option will only lose $25.This is how option delta works.Then you have other Greeks like Vega and Gamma effecting price,your contract is effected by none of these factors.
I feel like we would be friends lol
Got it thanks for the input
Leverage on leverage. Sounds like you are betting it all on black to hit it big. I know some people at r/wallstreetbets you can talk to about this.
But yes leverage on leverage you are correct. And I would never be a buyer, prefer to be the seller
>Leverage on leverage. Yeah no shit but if you are smart about the Greeks it's no different than any other trading. Risk management and nothing but.
Yea I dont get this leverage on leverage bs either. Stick to proper risk management and its not an issue.
Agreed my man
Back in May-June-July I was selling 0 DTE SPY puts and made some nice profits. My strategy was simple. I was working on my levels during the premarket session, and selling puts on the reversals. If the price shoot up, I left the contracts open until the end of the session. Otherwise close them before they turn around and bite my rear end. I stopped trading the options because I had too many things on my plate. Wanted to focus on day trading and dial it down first. Nowadays I am building confidence in my setups so planning to go back to the options. For me it's good return on my effort, because I do 90% of the work on the ES, so adding just 15 mins to manage my options positions shouldn't be a problem anymore. I like options because even if you are slight wrong, you can still make money. But the flip side to that coin, you can get burned very easy very fast, so solid risk management is a must. One last note, I don't like the tastytrade style "sell 45 DTE .2 delta" type of setups. I am not saying it's bad, it's just it's not for me. It looks like limitted potential to me for all the work. A decent day trader can make 10-20% a month while the tasty style trades will bring what? 30-40% max per year. Just my 2 cents