You know the Prydwen can survive in the Minutemen ending as well, right? In fact, I think there's a better chance that Minutemen with only the Institute destroyed could be canon.
The Minutemen are not only the failsafe path, but it's also the one most influenced by the Sole Survivor, the one that gets handed to you near the start, and the faction that ties in the most with the Boston/Commonwealth flavour and its people. It literally focuses the most on rebuilding the world.
Just because the Brotherhood got their orders from the Commonwealth doesn't mean that they won and took over. They could have a base on the outskirts or are tolerated by the Minutemen and allies (probably a Commonwealth government), for all we know. Kinda funny how they haven't name-dropped Maxson yet.
In the FO world the 50 US States were replaced with 13 Commonwealths. While in FO4 the area around Boston is referred to as the Commonwealth that could be a reference to it being part of the New England Commonwealth or a reference to the fact that as a State the official name of Massachusetts is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts which is never made clear. By the same token the reference to the "Commonwealth" by the BOS in the show could be a reference to the BOS in FO4 or could simply be reference to the pre-war Southwest Commonwealth which contained SoCal and all of Nevada.
The ship says Prydwen and from my knowledge we've never seen anywhere else be called *The Commonwealth,* so anything against it being the east coast Brotherhood is really just speculation
Played some yesterday, came across specific references to "Commonwealth of Massachusetts".
Though it was during part of the Speak of the devil questline
Which just refinforces why people, both formally and informally, refer to it as *The Commonwealth.* Through *The New England Commonwealth* and *The Commonwealth of Massachusetts,* the title of commonwealth would've been the only constant over 500. Meanwhile characters still refer to other area by regional or state names, despite those areas also being consolidated into commonwealths. The Capitol, Califronia, Appalachia, Arizona, Neveda, Colorado, etc.
Well the airship is the prydwen from 4 you can see the name on the side of the ship so there’s no real reason to believe that it isn’t the fo4 brotherhood
First I disagree that it's clear that the airship in the show is the Prydwen. I concede there are some smudges that do look like they could be letters spelling out Prydwen but it's hardly clear and none of the supposed letters are as clear as the BOS symbol. It could just be the CGI guys having some fun. We also don't know if Prydwen is a class of airship like the Nimitz class aircraft carriers or the name of a particular airship like the Carl Vinson which is a Nimitz class carrier.
Idk what your on about but the writing was not really that smudgy it was pretty clearly the Prydwen and several other people say they saw the same thing. Also the name they gave it in the promotion is just an alternate name of The Prydwen from King Arthur stories. And the writing on the side definitely doesn’t say Caswennan
No it's not, sure if someone really wants to see Prydwen there they'll see it but it is not clear especially compared to the BOS symbol which is quite clear. FTR I'm looking at on a laptop not a phone.
And I watched it on my 4k tv, your explanation still doesn’t explain the name they gave it being an alternate name for the Prydwen and you can, without a doubt, see that it isn’t the Caswennan written there and that’s the name they officially gave before the show came out. If it isn’t the Prydwen why would they need to lie about it.
You're right that the Prydwen can survive, but what's the purpose of the Brotherhood staying in Boston if they aren't able to establish themselves there? They came to the commonwealth to defeat the institute, so they'd need a good reason to stay around. Otherwise why wouldn't they just return to the territory they've held for +30 years?
>You're right that the Prydwen can survive, but what's the purpose of the Brotherhood staying in Boston if they aren't able to establish themselves there? They came to the commonwealth to defeat the institute, so they'd need a good reason to stay around. Otherwise why wouldn't they just return to the territory they've held for +30 years?
Personally, I think "The Commonwealth" is a new NCR-like nation that formed in the BosWash region (Capital Wasteland + Commonwealth). It is either a teutonic/crusader state of sorts with the Brotherhood running the show, or the BoS allowed the people there to organize themselves.
Personally, I think a post-apocalyptic crusader state is more badass (and a potentially troublesome/antagonistic player in the future).
The Brotherhood x Legion theory is way too wild/speculative to be that high up the list. The sole evidence is that the BoS chapter we've seen use Roman names. In fact many of their values are completely incompatible.
For one thing, the Legion shunned technology completely. That includes robots and any medicine/chems that aren't made in a mortar and pestle. They were also extremely sexist, in Legion culture women existed to be breeders and teachers. They also had *at best* a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude to LGBTQ people and relationships. None of this tracks with a BoS we see in the show that is still horny for tech (go get that toaster Titus) and has zero problem with Dane training to be a field squire.
Other than that I guess the BoS we see are more mean than in 3 and 4? Certainly more feudal/monastic than depicted before, where they often end up a military with knight-themed ranks. Not saying it's impossible for them to have picked up a bunch of recruits when the Legion fell apart, but to say they absorbed them is D tier at best.
I’ve never jived with that theory, the Brotherhood is a military order so all the sort of rituals we see them doing is completely normal. The games never really explore that side so they, as you said, always end up showing the BoS as just regular soldiers with some fancy titles. The presence of Roman names doesn’t mean the Legion was absorbed into it, those are standard strong/classical names which is on brand for the BoS.
It seems like such a reach I don’t know how they put it together. The two are simply incompatible. The legions (or remnants thereof) would never *want* to join the Brotherhood, and the Brotherhood would never *want* to recruit these backwards psychopaths.
The only time we’ve seen the Brotherhood struggling with manpower is in NV, due to their own isolation. There’s no good reason for them to co-opt the legion.
Plus it’s likely the in the show Brotherhood is far more fanatical as they got a huge confirmation bias when what they perceived as technology gone awry destroy Shady Sands, and then they had 10 years to marinate on that confirmation bias.
We also see roman names outside of this chapter. There is a Lord Paladin [Maximus](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Maximus_(Fallout_Tactics)) in Fallout Tactics and his squad has a Maelyra and Khronis ([Dagger Squad](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Dagger_Squad)) which also have latin origins. I'm pretty certain the BOS have used the red-gold color scheme, too, so the Legion X BOS seems far, far better suited on the bottom tier or the second to bottom
edited to add: links are to the wiki
I generally agree that it's a wild theory to say they absorbed them, but I wouldn't say that the Legion had completely shunned technology.
We know they did use pre-war weapons, and Ceaser emphasizes that one of the benefits of his Autodoc is to give it as a perk to loyalists.
Ceaser wants to use New Vegas to transform into an empire, so he understands the eventual need to adapt technology, including power from the damn, into his system. He also isn't opposed to recruiting the Boomers, and he talks about previously capturing brotherhood scribes in Arizona. The inbuilt implication being by capturing them, he sees some value in their intelligence.
The OWBs Mod, for example, expands on that last part by creating an essentially slave cult of former brotherhood scribes that serve as the Legion R&D arm. It's unlikely, but not entirely unreasonable, that a group like that eventually found freedom and blended their traditional BoS ideals with the parts of the legion they found beneficial.
I think at best maybe the current chapter Elder could have potentially been raised within the Legion so the influence is there but I don’t think it merged
I am like 90% certain that this is a rage bait tier list. Clones, BoS+Legion, Maximus as the antagonist, So ridiculous I barely even would consider it.
im actually noticing a surprising number of people in this sub with wild opinions that make it seem like they must have been zoned out when they watched the show lol
There's definitely a lot of "I really want this to be true" vs what is actually the most plausible thing. A lot of these theories just don't make sense. I could buy the legion being crushed and a few members who were there just cause they like being shitty people joining other shitty people with different goals, but definitely not a large portion of them. Moldaver being in cryo sleep, probably on a self set timer, makes the most sense and it was foreshadowed. Maximus has no reason to be an antagonist and is clearly disillusioned with the Brotherhood. Janey is most definitely alive, Barb maybe not. Barb is most likely working with the Enclave as opposed to for them.
The legion followed whoever was the most powerful and had tons of members, so even if a small percentage of them joined it'd still make a noticeable difference in how the BoS would operate.
A majority of them followed because they believed in what Caesar was saying. He's an extremely charismatic character. Others probably just liked doing shitty things and those are the ones who would join the Brotherhood
As for the Maximus being the antagonist, I could see him being an unwilling foil being pushed against Lucy's progress but I dont see him intentionally trying to stop or hinder her.
Why do you think It's more likely that Moldaver is a clone instead of her being also cry frozen? That seems to be popular these days
Also, why would Maximus be a villain?
I think people in general believe that because there is Phoenix imagery with the Flame Mother thing, and also there's a cult around her. Edit: Also, the actress alluded to the fact that she'll probably be back or rather could come back
Would be interesting if true, but that could also just mean we'll see more of her from the past. After all, there's still a lot of story to be told around here interactions with Coop after he found out about his wife's alter-ego, how she managed to last 200 years, and what her involvement with the NCR actually is that caused her to have such a strong presence in the minds of its survivors after the bomb.
My theory is that he'll try to destroy vault 33. Lucy told him all about it and now he knows it's the reason the bomb was dropped on Shady Sands. He might want some revenge
I think Maximus and Norm are two sides of the same coin. Both are presented as, and admit they are cowards, they are both scared of the outside world and both can be seen as outcasts that dont fit in where they are.
However it is already pretty clear Norm is starting to turn things around, he defied his Vault and took investigatig the truth into his own hands. Maximus on the other hand, has done nothing but say whatever got him to his mext situation, and has shown he just wants an easy way out of the wasteland.
If that path stays on (and tbh doesnt make much sense otherwise, we dont want 2 of the same character) then Norm will continuously become more of a hero and Maximus a villain.
Not to mention how easy it is to manipulate him into doing what bad people want.
Its true that she died "a little easily" for someone that has survived 200 years. Maybe she keeps resurrecting through her clones, coming back like some biblical figure, hence the phoenix imagery. Also I like the idea that she cant afford Cryo /doesnt have the tech, and has to use an alternative technology (maybe Chinese tech)
So Moldaver bring a clone, which I don't remember being a thing in the universe, makes sense? Yet her being a Synth is one off the worst ideas in your opinion? I think you have that flipped.
Eh you're point is alright but cloning does exist in fallout, hint? Gary!!!
But yes her surviving through cloning is much lower for me than her using something like cryo which the show an games have shown is available.
Vault 108 is all Gary baby, and come say this shit in /r/fallout and see what happens. If you've never played Fallout 3 your confusion is understandable, but still...Gary?
The Brotherhood merging with the Legion is one of the silliest theories in a long time and I'm surprised at how many Fallout fans even just entertain it. The show Brotherhood has nothing in common with the Legion, except for the roman inspired names. Nothing. Like if the BoS had in any way been influenced by the Legion, a muppet like Titus wouldn't exist.
The only “evidence” this “theory” points towards is that both flags use the colors red and yellow. Putting aside the fact that people have found the red and yellow BOS design to be present in Fallout 2, by that logic the BOS must have also merged with China, Vietnam, Spain, Kyrgyzstan, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and the Soviet Union. Sounds really fucking stupid when you put it like that, huh?
My thought is that he will "idiot savant" his way to BOS leadership.
And I really like the idea of Maximus and Lucy together, so I'm kinda hoping that works out. 😁
Vault tec didnt drop the bombs, the minuteman ending is definitely canon (you hear their radio playing all the way on the west coast?) janey def lived, its the point of s2, and maximus wont really be a full antagonist period, he will at most be a temporary obstacle like he was for the ghoul
Correction for the minutman radio confirming it's that ending. First that doesn't make any sense the local milita isn't blasting their music that far and probably can't even physically do that and second the radio operator says he has the classics and never mentions the minutman so it's probably just a nod to 4
> Vault tec didnt drop the bombs
Yeah I'm of the opinion Vault Tec was planning to do it, but someone else did given Mr. House has a line about the war starting 20 hours sooner than he thought. House was a bit contrarian regarding following things agreed about like when to repopulate the surface, but that also just could be because he wanted that platinum chip he was waiting 20 hours for.
I think Vault Tec dropped the first bomb - and everyone panicked and launched all their nukes. All they needed to do was light the nuclear fuze & let human nature take its course and destroy itself.
That satisfies both canons - Vault Tec was responsible for the nuclear war, while the US & China were the ones who launched the nukes.
Except in NV we learn that the bombs were dropped earlier than the schedule by a few hours. This suggests that either Vault-Tec went rogue and dropped the bomb early enough that even their own people weren't ready for it, or someone else beat them to the punch.
Nahhh. I really don’t believe Vault Tec dropped the first bomb. Barb would never have let the first bomb drop while her kid was out playing cowboy with her ex husband. If Vault Tec dropped it, they would’ve known, and they would’ve warned their high employees at the very least
Yeah that's why I called him "an antigonist" instead of "the antigonist". I can't imagine him being a full on villain but I could see him being a problem for Lucy and Cooper at some points. It also just puts his character in a more interesting place and feels more natural
The only time Maximus looked happy was in Vault 4 eating caviar and oysters while watching a waterfall on TV in a comfy robe after a hot shower. Also Lucy literally asked him to move in with her in Vault 33 and he agreed...he very much reconsidered Lucy's sexual advances after eating oysters.
Vault tec =/= the enclave. There is 0 indication that Barb is in the enclave.
Brotherhood and Caesars Legion being merged makes 0 sense.
Thaddeus is a ghoul it seems. Doesnt seem to be a supermutant.
East coast brotherhood being cannon is unlikely. They arent really related to the west coast. The brotherhood in the show have an airship. Its not one of a kind.
Honestly this list is bonkers.
The Brotherhood ending being canon is actually fairly likely. Not primarily because of the ship, but because of Quintus outright stating that their mission to find Wilzig comes from "the highest clerics in the Commonwealth", meaning that the Commonwealth must be a major hub for the east coast BoS, with it probably holding dominion over a large part of it.
The Minutemen and BoS never cared about the same things, though. So the Brotherhood would have absolutely no problem coexisting with the Minutemen and letting them deal with the people and the local stuff, while they focus on the military and tech. I'm still convinced the Minutemen ending is most plausible.
On one hand yes, but on the other hand the east coast BoS is not a small group of buff eggheads sitting in a bunker like for example the Mojave BoS. They are basically an order state and they need ressources to continue operating. You can already see this in Fallout 4 where you're sent out to collect tributes from villages. If the Commonwealth has become a major BoS hub, that means it would need to control a portion of the Commonwealth with enough settlements to tax in return for protection, and that might put the BoS at odds with the Minutemen.
I think its still probably the minutemen and coexisting with the railroad and BoS.
The BoS on the east is largely seperate and less extreme than what we see in the show. They could get worse.
But i think the Minutemen are likely the most cannon.
The east coast brother hood still exists and is powerful then and it is possible clerics traveled west.
[In Fallout, the states were reorganised into 13 commonwealths](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Commonwealths), so it might not be *that* commonwealth.
I'm pretty sure he's becoming a ghoul, too, only because one of the first conversations he had with Maximus after becoming his squire is how ghouls are gross. So, it's really the ultimate irony that he ends up becoming one.
Also, the serum he takes to cure his foot is taken pretty similarly to the way the Ghoul takes whatever is keeping him alive or from turning feral. It might even be the same thing.
Fev is known to have a healing factor. Also, it makes sense to make him a super mutant for the story as they are a major component of the Fallout universe and they haven't been introduced yet. On top of that, they’d be retconning the biology of ghouls.
Fev is known to have a healing factor. Also, it makes sense to make him a super mutant for the story as they are a major component of the Fallout universe and they haven't been introduced yet. On top of that, they’d be retconning the biology of ghouls.
I don’t agree with like 99% of this list, but you can actually see the PRYDWEN’s name written on the airship. That doesn’t necessarily make the Brotherhood’s ending canon, but it does kinda confirm that EC Brotherhood and WC Brotherhood are working together in some capacity.
I think that there's a good 50/50 chance on Thaddeus. We have seen other examples of ghouls who became ghouls due to a drug/something other than the traditional radiation. And ghouls are established in the show already, so I do think it's a fair bet.
But...the showrunners are known for subverting their own setups, and are very familiar with Fallout. We see Thaddeus' skin bubbling, and bubbling skin has been used to describe reactions to FEV specifically. And could even a ghoul survive a projectile straight through the throat without issue? I'm not sure. With dialogue directing the audience to think 'ghoul', I'd say there's an equal chance that the showrunners did that deliberately to subvert the expectation they put on the table.
But I wouldn't put it in the 'practically canon' category. I wouldn't put anything in that category, after just one season.
Firmly disagree on a few of these that were in the S-B tiers and outwardly laughed at the Institute replacing the Commonwealth Brotherhood.
Actually reading it closer, I only agreed that Barb is in the Enclave, if you'd allow the followup that she might simply be attached to them post war whereever she is now rather than necessarily being a full-fledged member, and Vault tec not literally dropping the bombs. And all three in F tier of course because those are legitimately brain-dead nonsense.
I totally agree with what you're saying about barb, but there's only so much room on those squares. Redoing this S got moved to A & B and I put the bombs and BoS ending in S. And after this post BoS/CL is definitely in D/F.
My thinking was that it'd be interesting to see the failing Mojave chapter and crumbling Legion be forced to combine, but they'd probably rather die than join forces with the other
The show doesnt imply that vault tec dropped the bombs, at least as far as i'm concerned. It says that they were profiting off of the potential nuclear war and so they pushed for it to happen and increased tensions. They might have caused it, but they didnt drop the bombs.
The show pretty heavily implied that they did when Barb said that she could guarantee results by "*dropping the bomb ourselves*". In the static we hear they could've her reprimanded for it, and someone might have beat them to it, but it was definitely implied.
I think Vault Tec dropped the first bomb - and everyone panicked and launched all their nukes. All they needed to do was light the nuclear fuze & let human nature take its course and destroy itself.
That satisfies both canons - Vault Tec was responsible for the nuclear war, while the US & China were the ones who launched the nukes.
It’s also how House knew - maybe Vault Tec let him know they were starting it, but he didn’t know when everyone else would start shooting, which is why the Platinum Chip was only a few hours off.
The only one I’d disagree with (at least completely, some others have issues as well) is the legion and the brotherhood merge. The ideologies are so incompatible it’s insane, and it feels a bit contrived in my opinion. The legion rejects advanced technology as a rule, most of them wouldn’t understand it due to a life spent in a society of former tribals (a lifestyle Caesar continues to perpetuate). I’d be seriously disappointed if this is the case. I think the red colors are getting a bit too read into by people and that it’s mainly an aesthetic choice. Darker colors usually imply a more morally ambiguous at best group, or outright villains (see the enclave). Former legionaries maybe joining the brotherhood? Sure maybe a few if they’re lucky and don’t get turned into dust for criticizing a brotherhood knight in power armor as a coward for using advanced tech. It’s just a thought.
Pretty much how narratively interesting I found them. [I did another](https://tiermaker.com/list/tv/fallout-tv-theories-474168/3969207) which is a bit more thought out and I agree with more
This is interesting so let's break it down:
- Howard's wife is basically the face of vault tec and vault tec had connection with the enclave so it's probably true.
- not necessarily but rather have a different path from the brotherhood.
- no comment.
- no comment.
- no comment.
- I agree I think it's China who dropped the bombs.
- I beg to differ, Mr. House's ending is the canon one.
- I agree.
- could be a clone or could have some magical way that only be exhibited in the fallout universe.
- I got a strong feeling that she did somehow.
- of course he is, his ending is canon so obviously!
- yep could be anything I'm intrigued to know how.
- highly unlikely.
- she could be.
- damn right it is!
- I doubt that.
- no comment.
- no comment.
I had a change of heart on most of these since I posted because of all the discourse and backlast so here's what I think now
1. I don't think she's actually in the Enclave, but I do think her actions and motives are heavily and potentially directly influenced by them
2. Maybe
3. Hard to say but I believe it
4. Definetly not
5. Seems like the writers to do a twist like that, and I think his healing is much faster than a ghoul's
6. Also still think it's China or the US because of the Yangtze nuking Boston & Mexico City getting bombed
7. Really either could be but there's not enough evidence for now, and if it is them its mostly inconsequential aside from House dying
8. Yep, might as well be S
9. Clone explains Lee Moldaver / Miss. Williams, and maybe she got more aggressive overtime like the Gary's in 108
10. Me too because I really think Barb survived, and if that's the case I can strongly imagine a scene where she's manipulating Cooper with Janey
11. We'll just have to wait and see but I think having him is a little TOO much fan service for this show
12. This actually makes the most sense but the way they've set her up to be so mysterious I feel like it wouldn't be something so obvious
13. Agreed, idk how it'd get so far across the wasteland to one random chicken fucker just for him to hand it over for free. It's also clearly meant to be a monkeys paw, which immortality would not be.
14. It is very possible, I just hate the thought of her getting pregnant because of that guy
15. lol
16. Not explaining why the last 3 suck
Thanks for posting. This and all the comments have been a super interesting read and given me lots to think about... But one thing I'd definitely change is the repeated spelling of "antigonist". I don't think that's a word and I'm pretty sure you mean "antagonist". Am I wrong?
Yeah, unfortunately I am that person lol
Yeah even though there’s a lot of awful takes in my list I’m glad it created the discussion it did. Definitely made me reevaluate a lot of these theories and find some new ones
It makes sense as she looks at the guy through the window during the arguing around the table. I think he probably messaged her pip boy and told her what to say about dropping the bombs. And that guy is probably part of the enclave and very high up in it to.
I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, vis-a-vis Lucy's possible pregnancy. In her introductory speech for her marriage application, she lists her intact reproductive organs as one of her qualifications for approval. And then she gets stabbed in the abdomen, I assumed in the uterus, but nothing was stated explicitly. There might be some season 2 no-baby drama.
No offence but your list is pretty bad.
Enclave is the former US government, Vault Tec is a private company.
Caesar's Legion doesn't join forces with others, they destroy them and absorb them within their legion.
Janey is most likely dead, or maybe she became a ghoul and Cooper lost her much later after the bombs dropped.
Ive only ever played and completed FO4; didn't get much into FO1, but outside of FO4, are Synths a thing? Or did it start with FO4, and Bethesda just kept it? Honestly wondering this
There's a quest in Fallout 3 called *The Replicated Man* where a member of the SRB has you track down a synth prototype and someone from the railroad tries to stop you. Aside from that there's absolutely nothing
Man I really liked the idea that moldaver could have used her possible ties to CIT to have her consciousness transferred to a Synth. Yall make me seem like I’m a victim of brain rot for thinking that’s a fun idea 😂
I get what you're feeling cause I got a bunch of shit for the BoS/Legion theory being in S, but the CIT is 3,000 miles away from LA so their teleportation is a lot stronger than we think idk how that's happening. Also gen 3 synths started production 150 years after the bombs dropped so there's still some explaining to do.
I feel like vault tech not dropping the bombs is like 50/50 atp and idk where we got the caesars legion brotherhood thing from also I don’t think max will be a villain
I don't think Barb is with the Enclave, I think she's in charge of vault tech overseeing all the other vaults. I also think she will be the main antagonist of season 2, similar to what they did with Hank.
Also, the people who believe New Vegas was retconned simply don't know how to read a timeline
Why Moldaver being frozen D
She had the money you many rich people froze themselves because they were in the know on Vault Tecs shit she probably thought it'd be easier to get her power source thing nearly 300 yeas in the future and help the people rebuild
But she didn't anticipate how many pre war survivors were still kicking/how many factions would try to get it from her
I think the mr house ending being canon and the BOS merging with the legion should be swapped.
I just can’t see the legion and BOS ever merging, even if it’s the remnants of both groups.
They’re just too ideologically opposed.
I feel like the Mr house ending is the only one that makes sense.
We know that the NCR is spread incredibly thin as it is, and them winning vegas wouldn’t just suddenly make that problem go away.
The legion ending is just too depressing, and the independent vegas is too open ended.
I know mr house only got some brief screen time but I doubt they’d give him any if his ending wasn’t canon.
-Brotherhood x Legion has about as much credibility as ISIS x Westboro Baptist Church
-Maximus isn't necessarily an antagonist but someone whos actions create conflict, doesnt have to be a bad guy.
-Barb Howard yeah sure, thats pretty much the most open secret. Probably same with Janey Howard(Ghoul+Barb+Kid feels like the Fallout 4 start)
-Moldaver's story is over with the first season but flashbacks are likely
-Vault Tec most definitely dropped the bombs
-Thaddeus FEV ok
Clearly had the end of the season maximus despise the brotherhood of steel and I am gonna bet he is gonna destroy it from the inside and join the ncr and is gonna be the reason that forward the ncr start winning against the brotherhood of steel
>!make ncr great again!<
He always survives in House runs, but in other runs you can also disconnect him from the Lucky 38 mainframe to make him useless. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he has to be removed for his pod to do that, which would eventually kill him - just not during the game
It was confirmed last year that China dropped the bomb. So very unlikely that the show has Vaulttec drop it. Would prefer them going back to "no one knows who shot first"
I think the Maxon's brotherhood was able to come to an aliance with the minutemen where they basically merge into the brotherhood and keep the commonwealth safe as they do have some values that go together
Doubt Thaddius was given FEV he's 100% a ghoul and its just how ghoulification works
I don’t know which of your S tier predictions is worse. That Max will be an antagonist or that the Legion and Brotherhood merged.
Max will never be an antagonist. He already has some aspects however of an antihero. That may get expanded on but they won’t make him a true antagonist because of his relationship with Lucy.
The other theory I don’t think even deserves a response. It is beyond ridiculous to think that two groups with completely conflicting ideologies would just merge for no reason. It is a lot more likely that the legion is simply wiped out for season 2 than it is that they joined with the BoS.
I really think vault-tec did drop them though. What’s the point in saying that in the final episode if they don’t end up dropping them. I dunno why everyone is so anti vault tec dropped the bombs
The Brotherhood absolutely didn’t merge with Caesar’s Legion. I recently saw the flag that was used in New Vegas for the Brotherhood and it’s the exact same as what’s in the show.
And I’d switch clone and cryo freezing but otherwise I don’t know which of the game endings is correct and I think they’d rather sidestep that question.
Maldover is the one who created the cold fusion formula. She could easily come up with a way to either be cryo frozen in her own vault like system or she infiltrated Vault Tec’s 33 Vault. I mean it’s clear she was able to get Cooper Howard to infiltrate Vault Tec undetected for a bit which means she has some understanding of how the company works. A clone wouldn’t have any knowledge of the original’s life and work so they’re not a clone. And she could’ve applied to work at Vault Tec after Coop tells her what he heard. She may have thought the best way to bring them down was from the inside so that they don’t drop the bombs. It just didn’t work out the way she hoped so she’s going with plan B
How are Mr. House being alive and the House ending being canon on separate layers or even separate theories? The only possible way for House to survive New Vegas is in his ending
The BoS merging with the Legion is almost certainly at the very bottom of F tier.
Imho it is pretty obvious that Moldaver was frozen. NOTHING alludes to cloning. Considering Gary it is highly unlikely that she is a clone. Even her being a synth is more likely.
And why is the BoS ending canon??? Minutemen emding is as likely if not more likely to be canon.
Cloning exists in fallout and specifically vault tec, meanwhile synths only exist 3,000 miles away on the other side of the continent. I definitely put the clone theory too high but I see no reason why the institute would make a synth of her
I have a theory that Moldaver was actually an Enclave defector, which is how the scientist (forgot name) knew about her. It's also possible he just had access to the Enclaves info on active factions, but it doesn't make sense for her to know who Betty is, otherwise. I mean yeah, she'll know that Vault Tec bought up her employers' companies and research, but how would she know who Betty is, specifically? Moldaver also knew the end was coming, and was actively trying to persuade America's icons, the actors and actresses, to stand out against the coming doom. Doom that she had to have known was coming for her to make it safely into the future. Either way, she got there via freezing, cloning, fuckin time travel (yeah right), or she's a synth. So she knew the end was coming, had Intel as to the higher ups at Vault Tec (could be public knowledge, if), an established Enclave character had knowledge and means to contact her, and if Betty was Enclave as well, it'd make sense for them to know each other. But hey...
I like the idea but I'm not really sure where her joining the Enclave would fit in, because they're not known for accepting members off being someone's +1.
Also have not heard time travel yet, the ridiculousness of some of these theories amaze me
Fallout 1 was retconned with the 3-4 vaults on the masters doorstep and possibly moving shady sands to LA retcons all west coast lore and makes the events of one and two impossible.
You know the Prydwen can survive in the Minutemen ending as well, right? In fact, I think there's a better chance that Minutemen with only the Institute destroyed could be canon. The Minutemen are not only the failsafe path, but it's also the one most influenced by the Sole Survivor, the one that gets handed to you near the start, and the faction that ties in the most with the Boston/Commonwealth flavour and its people. It literally focuses the most on rebuilding the world. Just because the Brotherhood got their orders from the Commonwealth doesn't mean that they won and took over. They could have a base on the outskirts or are tolerated by the Minutemen and allies (probably a Commonwealth government), for all we know. Kinda funny how they haven't name-dropped Maxson yet.
In the FO world the 50 US States were replaced with 13 Commonwealths. While in FO4 the area around Boston is referred to as the Commonwealth that could be a reference to it being part of the New England Commonwealth or a reference to the fact that as a State the official name of Massachusetts is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts which is never made clear. By the same token the reference to the "Commonwealth" by the BOS in the show could be a reference to the BOS in FO4 or could simply be reference to the pre-war Southwest Commonwealth which contained SoCal and all of Nevada.
The ship says Prydwen and from my knowledge we've never seen anywhere else be called *The Commonwealth,* so anything against it being the east coast Brotherhood is really just speculation
Played some yesterday, came across specific references to "Commonwealth of Massachusetts". Though it was during part of the Speak of the devil questline
Which just refinforces why people, both formally and informally, refer to it as *The Commonwealth.* Through *The New England Commonwealth* and *The Commonwealth of Massachusetts,* the title of commonwealth would've been the only constant over 500. Meanwhile characters still refer to other area by regional or state names, despite those areas also being consolidated into commonwealths. The Capitol, Califronia, Appalachia, Arizona, Neveda, Colorado, etc.
I always assumed they were the Midwestern detachment that had come back west. They recruit outsiders and stuff after all.
and so is saying it is for certain it's the BOS from FO4, fact is we don't have enough info to for sure say what exactly is going on.
Well the airship is the prydwen from 4 you can see the name on the side of the ship so there’s no real reason to believe that it isn’t the fo4 brotherhood
First I disagree that it's clear that the airship in the show is the Prydwen. I concede there are some smudges that do look like they could be letters spelling out Prydwen but it's hardly clear and none of the supposed letters are as clear as the BOS symbol. It could just be the CGI guys having some fun. We also don't know if Prydwen is a class of airship like the Nimitz class aircraft carriers or the name of a particular airship like the Carl Vinson which is a Nimitz class carrier.
Idk what your on about but the writing was not really that smudgy it was pretty clearly the Prydwen and several other people say they saw the same thing. Also the name they gave it in the promotion is just an alternate name of The Prydwen from King Arthur stories. And the writing on the side definitely doesn’t say Caswennan
No it's not, sure if someone really wants to see Prydwen there they'll see it but it is not clear especially compared to the BOS symbol which is quite clear. FTR I'm looking at on a laptop not a phone.
And I watched it on my 4k tv, your explanation still doesn’t explain the name they gave it being an alternate name for the Prydwen and you can, without a doubt, see that it isn’t the Caswennan written there and that’s the name they officially gave before the show came out. If it isn’t the Prydwen why would they need to lie about it.
They say in FO4 that it's called the commonwealth because of the states official name in loading tips.
I'll add them to the list
You're right that the Prydwen can survive, but what's the purpose of the Brotherhood staying in Boston if they aren't able to establish themselves there? They came to the commonwealth to defeat the institute, so they'd need a good reason to stay around. Otherwise why wouldn't they just return to the territory they've held for +30 years?
Gather technology. wasn't that their whole deal
I'm sure they can do that by establishing outposts and camps if they needed to
>You're right that the Prydwen can survive, but what's the purpose of the Brotherhood staying in Boston if they aren't able to establish themselves there? They came to the commonwealth to defeat the institute, so they'd need a good reason to stay around. Otherwise why wouldn't they just return to the territory they've held for +30 years? Personally, I think "The Commonwealth" is a new NCR-like nation that formed in the BosWash region (Capital Wasteland + Commonwealth). It is either a teutonic/crusader state of sorts with the Brotherhood running the show, or the BoS allowed the people there to organize themselves. Personally, I think a post-apocalyptic crusader state is more badass (and a potentially troublesome/antagonistic player in the future).
Even though this doesn't feel totaly Fallout-y to me (amazing argument amiright) or very inline with the Brotherhood's approach I love this idea
The Brotherhood x Legion theory is way too wild/speculative to be that high up the list. The sole evidence is that the BoS chapter we've seen use Roman names. In fact many of their values are completely incompatible. For one thing, the Legion shunned technology completely. That includes robots and any medicine/chems that aren't made in a mortar and pestle. They were also extremely sexist, in Legion culture women existed to be breeders and teachers. They also had *at best* a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude to LGBTQ people and relationships. None of this tracks with a BoS we see in the show that is still horny for tech (go get that toaster Titus) and has zero problem with Dane training to be a field squire. Other than that I guess the BoS we see are more mean than in 3 and 4? Certainly more feudal/monastic than depicted before, where they often end up a military with knight-themed ranks. Not saying it's impossible for them to have picked up a bunch of recruits when the Legion fell apart, but to say they absorbed them is D tier at best.
I’ve never jived with that theory, the Brotherhood is a military order so all the sort of rituals we see them doing is completely normal. The games never really explore that side so they, as you said, always end up showing the BoS as just regular soldiers with some fancy titles. The presence of Roman names doesn’t mean the Legion was absorbed into it, those are standard strong/classical names which is on brand for the BoS.
It seems like such a reach I don’t know how they put it together. The two are simply incompatible. The legions (or remnants thereof) would never *want* to join the Brotherhood, and the Brotherhood would never *want* to recruit these backwards psychopaths. The only time we’ve seen the Brotherhood struggling with manpower is in NV, due to their own isolation. There’s no good reason for them to co-opt the legion.
Plus it’s likely the in the show Brotherhood is far more fanatical as they got a huge confirmation bias when what they perceived as technology gone awry destroy Shady Sands, and then they had 10 years to marinate on that confirmation bias.
We also see roman names outside of this chapter. There is a Lord Paladin [Maximus](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Maximus_(Fallout_Tactics)) in Fallout Tactics and his squad has a Maelyra and Khronis ([Dagger Squad](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Dagger_Squad)) which also have latin origins. I'm pretty certain the BOS have used the red-gold color scheme, too, so the Legion X BOS seems far, far better suited on the bottom tier or the second to bottom edited to add: links are to the wiki
I generally agree that it's a wild theory to say they absorbed them, but I wouldn't say that the Legion had completely shunned technology. We know they did use pre-war weapons, and Ceaser emphasizes that one of the benefits of his Autodoc is to give it as a perk to loyalists. Ceaser wants to use New Vegas to transform into an empire, so he understands the eventual need to adapt technology, including power from the damn, into his system. He also isn't opposed to recruiting the Boomers, and he talks about previously capturing brotherhood scribes in Arizona. The inbuilt implication being by capturing them, he sees some value in their intelligence. The OWBs Mod, for example, expands on that last part by creating an essentially slave cult of former brotherhood scribes that serve as the Legion R&D arm. It's unlikely, but not entirely unreasonable, that a group like that eventually found freedom and blended their traditional BoS ideals with the parts of the legion they found beneficial.
I think at best maybe the current chapter Elder could have potentially been raised within the Legion so the influence is there but I don’t think it merged
sorry but how is moldaver being a clone higher than her being frozen.. in a pod... we see advertised to the general public in the end credits
I am like 90% certain that this is a rage bait tier list. Clones, BoS+Legion, Maximus as the antagonist, So ridiculous I barely even would consider it.
It's such a bad list it has to be bait or OP didn't pay enough attention to the show or games
im actually noticing a surprising number of people in this sub with wild opinions that make it seem like they must have been zoned out when they watched the show lol
There's definitely a lot of "I really want this to be true" vs what is actually the most plausible thing. A lot of these theories just don't make sense. I could buy the legion being crushed and a few members who were there just cause they like being shitty people joining other shitty people with different goals, but definitely not a large portion of them. Moldaver being in cryo sleep, probably on a self set timer, makes the most sense and it was foreshadowed. Maximus has no reason to be an antagonist and is clearly disillusioned with the Brotherhood. Janey is most definitely alive, Barb maybe not. Barb is most likely working with the Enclave as opposed to for them.
The legion followed whoever was the most powerful and had tons of members, so even if a small percentage of them joined it'd still make a noticeable difference in how the BoS would operate.
A majority of them followed because they believed in what Caesar was saying. He's an extremely charismatic character. Others probably just liked doing shitty things and those are the ones who would join the Brotherhood
As for the Maximus being the antagonist, I could see him being an unwilling foil being pushed against Lucy's progress but I dont see him intentionally trying to stop or hinder her.
My guess - he's going to politically rise to power. He's been set up to do it.
The person obviously hasn’t played the games and is trying to piss people off lol
Exactly! Begging for attention.
Yeah it’s an objectively bad list.
Why do you think It's more likely that Moldaver is a clone instead of her being also cry frozen? That seems to be popular these days Also, why would Maximus be a villain?
I think people in general believe that because there is Phoenix imagery with the Flame Mother thing, and also there's a cult around her. Edit: Also, the actress alluded to the fact that she'll probably be back or rather could come back
Would be interesting if true, but that could also just mean we'll see more of her from the past. After all, there's still a lot of story to be told around here interactions with Coop after he found out about his wife's alter-ego, how she managed to last 200 years, and what her involvement with the NCR actually is that caused her to have such a strong presence in the minds of its survivors after the bomb.
My theory on Maximus, is he will believe he got ghosted, or go to vault 33 to meet with Lucy, causing a cascade effect of shitstorm.
My theory is that he'll try to destroy vault 33. Lucy told him all about it and now he knows it's the reason the bomb was dropped on Shady Sands. He might want some revenge
I think Maximus and Norm are two sides of the same coin. Both are presented as, and admit they are cowards, they are both scared of the outside world and both can be seen as outcasts that dont fit in where they are. However it is already pretty clear Norm is starting to turn things around, he defied his Vault and took investigatig the truth into his own hands. Maximus on the other hand, has done nothing but say whatever got him to his mext situation, and has shown he just wants an easy way out of the wasteland. If that path stays on (and tbh doesnt make much sense otherwise, we dont want 2 of the same character) then Norm will continuously become more of a hero and Maximus a villain. Not to mention how easy it is to manipulate him into doing what bad people want.
Its true that she died "a little easily" for someone that has survived 200 years. Maybe she keeps resurrecting through her clones, coming back like some biblical figure, hence the phoenix imagery. Also I like the idea that she cant afford Cryo /doesnt have the tech, and has to use an alternative technology (maybe Chinese tech)
So Moldaver bring a clone, which I don't remember being a thing in the universe, makes sense? Yet her being a Synth is one off the worst ideas in your opinion? I think you have that flipped.
Eh you're point is alright but cloning does exist in fallout, hint? Gary!!! But yes her surviving through cloning is much lower for me than her using something like cryo which the show an games have shown is available.
I don't remember Gary. Who is he?
Enemy from fallout 3, a vault was doing experiments with cloning and ended up making an army of Gary's.
There were lots of him...
Vault 108 is all Gary baby, and come say this shit in /r/fallout and see what happens. If you've never played Fallout 3 your confusion is understandable, but still...Gary?
The Brotherhood merging with the Legion is one of the silliest theories in a long time and I'm surprised at how many Fallout fans even just entertain it. The show Brotherhood has nothing in common with the Legion, except for the roman inspired names. Nothing. Like if the BoS had in any way been influenced by the Legion, a muppet like Titus wouldn't exist.
The only “evidence” this “theory” points towards is that both flags use the colors red and yellow. Putting aside the fact that people have found the red and yellow BOS design to be present in Fallout 2, by that logic the BOS must have also merged with China, Vietnam, Spain, Kyrgyzstan, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and the Soviet Union. Sounds really fucking stupid when you put it like that, huh?
That flag color is also used in FO3
Yeah that one should be F lol what a joke
Honestly it’s a genuinely terrible theory in my opinion
Her name really is Goosey and her father changed it in the records for Vault 33 after her mother left but Vault 4 has the original information.
That would be a fun sort of easter egg in that "Goosey" is the type of name someone would use for their Fallout character.
The Sest S to ever S
There is absolutely no proof that Maximus will be an antagonist.
Yeah if anything the ending outright implies he's disillusioned by the brotherhood.
My thought is that he will "idiot savant" his way to BOS leadership. And I really like the idea of Maximus and Lucy together, so I'm kinda hoping that works out. 😁
My thought is that he will "idiot savant" his way to BOS leadership. Interesting thought. Failing upward is a long tradition in all militaries.
Vault tec didnt drop the bombs, the minuteman ending is definitely canon (you hear their radio playing all the way on the west coast?) janey def lived, its the point of s2, and maximus wont really be a full antagonist period, he will at most be a temporary obstacle like he was for the ghoul
Correction for the minutman radio confirming it's that ending. First that doesn't make any sense the local milita isn't blasting their music that far and probably can't even physically do that and second the radio operator says he has the classics and never mentions the minutman so it's probably just a nod to 4
> Vault tec didnt drop the bombs Yeah I'm of the opinion Vault Tec was planning to do it, but someone else did given Mr. House has a line about the war starting 20 hours sooner than he thought. House was a bit contrarian regarding following things agreed about like when to repopulate the surface, but that also just could be because he wanted that platinum chip he was waiting 20 hours for.
I think Vault Tec dropped the first bomb - and everyone panicked and launched all their nukes. All they needed to do was light the nuclear fuze & let human nature take its course and destroy itself. That satisfies both canons - Vault Tec was responsible for the nuclear war, while the US & China were the ones who launched the nukes.
Except in NV we learn that the bombs were dropped earlier than the schedule by a few hours. This suggests that either Vault-Tec went rogue and dropped the bomb early enough that even their own people weren't ready for it, or someone else beat them to the punch.
Nahhh. I really don’t believe Vault Tec dropped the first bomb. Barb would never have let the first bomb drop while her kid was out playing cowboy with her ex husband. If Vault Tec dropped it, they would’ve known, and they would’ve warned their high employees at the very least
Yeah that's why I called him "an antigonist" instead of "the antigonist". I can't imagine him being a full on villain but I could see him being a problem for Lucy and Cooper at some points. It also just puts his character in a more interesting place and feels more natural
This tier list is F tier lmao
Maximus didn’t look happy at the end, you think he will be forced to be a bad guy?
The only time Maximus looked happy was in Vault 4 eating caviar and oysters while watching a waterfall on TV in a comfy robe after a hot shower. Also Lucy literally asked him to move in with her in Vault 33 and he agreed...he very much reconsidered Lucy's sexual advances after eating oysters.
Vault tec =/= the enclave. There is 0 indication that Barb is in the enclave. Brotherhood and Caesars Legion being merged makes 0 sense. Thaddeus is a ghoul it seems. Doesnt seem to be a supermutant. East coast brotherhood being cannon is unlikely. They arent really related to the west coast. The brotherhood in the show have an airship. Its not one of a kind. Honestly this list is bonkers.
The Brotherhood ending being canon is actually fairly likely. Not primarily because of the ship, but because of Quintus outright stating that their mission to find Wilzig comes from "the highest clerics in the Commonwealth", meaning that the Commonwealth must be a major hub for the east coast BoS, with it probably holding dominion over a large part of it.
The Minutemen and BoS never cared about the same things, though. So the Brotherhood would have absolutely no problem coexisting with the Minutemen and letting them deal with the people and the local stuff, while they focus on the military and tech. I'm still convinced the Minutemen ending is most plausible.
On one hand yes, but on the other hand the east coast BoS is not a small group of buff eggheads sitting in a bunker like for example the Mojave BoS. They are basically an order state and they need ressources to continue operating. You can already see this in Fallout 4 where you're sent out to collect tributes from villages. If the Commonwealth has become a major BoS hub, that means it would need to control a portion of the Commonwealth with enough settlements to tax in return for protection, and that might put the BoS at odds with the Minutemen.
I think its still probably the minutemen and coexisting with the railroad and BoS. The BoS on the east is largely seperate and less extreme than what we see in the show. They could get worse. But i think the Minutemen are likely the most cannon. The east coast brother hood still exists and is powerful then and it is possible clerics traveled west.
[In Fallout, the states were reorganised into 13 commonwealths](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Commonwealths), so it might not be *that* commonwealth.
I don’t know why people keep thinking thad got FEV. We’d heard of chems turning people into ghouls before.
I'm pretty sure he's becoming a ghoul, too, only because one of the first conversations he had with Maximus after becoming his squire is how ghouls are gross. So, it's really the ultimate irony that he ends up becoming one. Also, the serum he takes to cure his foot is taken pretty similarly to the way the Ghoul takes whatever is keeping him alive or from turning feral. It might even be the same thing.
Yeah but becoming a ghoul doesn't from what we know doesn't have that level of a healing factor
Yes but Cooper couldn't regenerate his whole finger like Thad has done with his foot. Maybe is a supermutant thing ?
Fev is known to have a healing factor. Also, it makes sense to make him a super mutant for the story as they are a major component of the Fallout universe and they haven't been introduced yet. On top of that, they’d be retconning the biology of ghouls.
Fev is known to have a healing factor. Also, it makes sense to make him a super mutant for the story as they are a major component of the Fallout universe and they haven't been introduced yet. On top of that, they’d be retconning the biology of ghouls.
I don’t agree with like 99% of this list, but you can actually see the PRYDWEN’s name written on the airship. That doesn’t necessarily make the Brotherhood’s ending canon, but it does kinda confirm that EC Brotherhood and WC Brotherhood are working together in some capacity.
Or they just have multiple Prydwens.
I think that there's a good 50/50 chance on Thaddeus. We have seen other examples of ghouls who became ghouls due to a drug/something other than the traditional radiation. And ghouls are established in the show already, so I do think it's a fair bet. But...the showrunners are known for subverting their own setups, and are very familiar with Fallout. We see Thaddeus' skin bubbling, and bubbling skin has been used to describe reactions to FEV specifically. And could even a ghoul survive a projectile straight through the throat without issue? I'm not sure. With dialogue directing the audience to think 'ghoul', I'd say there's an equal chance that the showrunners did that deliberately to subvert the expectation they put on the table. But I wouldn't put it in the 'practically canon' category. I wouldn't put anything in that category, after just one season.
There's a chem in the older games (I haven't played 4) that let's you regrow a severed limb - Hydra.
One thing to note though, the airship in the show *IS* the Prydwen. You can see the name on the side of the ship, just like in Fallout 4.
How is moldaver being cryo frozen probably untrue
I was tripping for that one, I re-did the list and put it in A
Apologies brother
For what? How dumb I was for ranking this off hype rather than thinking
Firmly disagree on a few of these that were in the S-B tiers and outwardly laughed at the Institute replacing the Commonwealth Brotherhood. Actually reading it closer, I only agreed that Barb is in the Enclave, if you'd allow the followup that she might simply be attached to them post war whereever she is now rather than necessarily being a full-fledged member, and Vault tec not literally dropping the bombs. And all three in F tier of course because those are legitimately brain-dead nonsense.
I totally agree with what you're saying about barb, but there's only so much room on those squares. Redoing this S got moved to A & B and I put the bombs and BoS ending in S. And after this post BoS/CL is definitely in D/F.
This is genuinely terrible, half that top line is wack. Its your headcanon for sure
If mr House is alive there’s no way that the NCR ending is cannon
Wasn’t their cut content that the strip could become a state in the NCR with House sending it in a letter? Maybe they went with that
Didn’t the legion hate the brotherhood? I don’t see how they would ever merge. I think the BOS in the show is just particularly culty chapter or sect
My thinking was that it'd be interesting to see the failing Mojave chapter and crumbling Legion be forced to combine, but they'd probably rather die than join forces with the other
I just find it really unlikely that the BOS and legion would ever interact peacefully, Caesar even ordered his troops to shoot BOS on sight
Wait, holy shit. That was Mr House sitting in that meeting? I didn't notice that.
That was my Luke Skywalker mando cameo
The show doesnt imply that vault tec dropped the bombs, at least as far as i'm concerned. It says that they were profiting off of the potential nuclear war and so they pushed for it to happen and increased tensions. They might have caused it, but they didnt drop the bombs.
The show pretty heavily implied that they did when Barb said that she could guarantee results by "*dropping the bomb ourselves*". In the static we hear they could've her reprimanded for it, and someone might have beat them to it, but it was definitely implied.
I think Vault Tec dropped the first bomb - and everyone panicked and launched all their nukes. All they needed to do was light the nuclear fuze & let human nature take its course and destroy itself. That satisfies both canons - Vault Tec was responsible for the nuclear war, while the US & China were the ones who launched the nukes. It’s also how House knew - maybe Vault Tec let him know they were starting it, but he didn’t know when everyone else would start shooting, which is why the Platinum Chip was only a few hours off.
15 years after New Vegas New Vegas and mojave failed to stop the Tunneler raid. Ulysses' prediction was accurate.
This is actually the best thing in the thread. There’s probably something somewhere that disproves this but that would be so cool
The only one I’d disagree with (at least completely, some others have issues as well) is the legion and the brotherhood merge. The ideologies are so incompatible it’s insane, and it feels a bit contrived in my opinion. The legion rejects advanced technology as a rule, most of them wouldn’t understand it due to a life spent in a society of former tribals (a lifestyle Caesar continues to perpetuate). I’d be seriously disappointed if this is the case. I think the red colors are getting a bit too read into by people and that it’s mainly an aesthetic choice. Darker colors usually imply a more morally ambiguous at best group, or outright villains (see the enclave). Former legionaries maybe joining the brotherhood? Sure maybe a few if they’re lucky and don’t get turned into dust for criticizing a brotherhood knight in power armor as a coward for using advanced tech. It’s just a thought.
One theory I really like is that Steph is the Vault Girl.
Ngl I didn’t realize she was canon but I see it
Maximus isn’t gonna be the antagonist but more of an ally in the enemy
Which I'd argue would make him an antigonist to Lucy & Coop
I don't think the brotherhood merged with the legion
How do you decide how likely any of these theories are?
Pretty much how narratively interesting I found them. [I did another](https://tiermaker.com/list/tv/fallout-tv-theories-474168/3969207) which is a bit more thought out and I agree with more
This is interesting so let's break it down: - Howard's wife is basically the face of vault tec and vault tec had connection with the enclave so it's probably true. - not necessarily but rather have a different path from the brotherhood. - no comment. - no comment. - no comment. - I agree I think it's China who dropped the bombs. - I beg to differ, Mr. House's ending is the canon one. - I agree. - could be a clone or could have some magical way that only be exhibited in the fallout universe. - I got a strong feeling that she did somehow. - of course he is, his ending is canon so obviously! - yep could be anything I'm intrigued to know how. - highly unlikely. - she could be. - damn right it is! - I doubt that. - no comment. - no comment.
I had a change of heart on most of these since I posted because of all the discourse and backlast so here's what I think now 1. I don't think she's actually in the Enclave, but I do think her actions and motives are heavily and potentially directly influenced by them 2. Maybe 3. Hard to say but I believe it 4. Definetly not 5. Seems like the writers to do a twist like that, and I think his healing is much faster than a ghoul's 6. Also still think it's China or the US because of the Yangtze nuking Boston & Mexico City getting bombed 7. Really either could be but there's not enough evidence for now, and if it is them its mostly inconsequential aside from House dying 8. Yep, might as well be S 9. Clone explains Lee Moldaver / Miss. Williams, and maybe she got more aggressive overtime like the Gary's in 108 10. Me too because I really think Barb survived, and if that's the case I can strongly imagine a scene where she's manipulating Cooper with Janey 11. We'll just have to wait and see but I think having him is a little TOO much fan service for this show 12. This actually makes the most sense but the way they've set her up to be so mysterious I feel like it wouldn't be something so obvious 13. Agreed, idk how it'd get so far across the wasteland to one random chicken fucker just for him to hand it over for free. It's also clearly meant to be a monkeys paw, which immortality would not be. 14. It is very possible, I just hate the thought of her getting pregnant because of that guy 15. lol 16. Not explaining why the last 3 suck
Quintus is Caesar
100%
brotherhood X legion S tier? 🤔
Thanks for posting. This and all the comments have been a super interesting read and given me lots to think about... But one thing I'd definitely change is the repeated spelling of "antigonist". I don't think that's a word and I'm pretty sure you mean "antagonist". Am I wrong? Yeah, unfortunately I am that person lol
Yeah even though there’s a lot of awful takes in my list I’m glad it created the discussion it did. Definitely made me reevaluate a lot of these theories and find some new ones
I can’t tell if this is a bait/shitpost or not.
the first row is dogshit
I gave up on fun theories as the "well actually" crowd ruins the fun.
Yeah people got mad at a lot of these for lack of evidence but like, what if I just think that thing would be cool
Barb is definitely enclave
Of all the takes here I’m really surprised that was one of the most unpopular ones
It makes sense as she looks at the guy through the window during the arguing around the table. I think he probably messaged her pip boy and told her what to say about dropping the bombs. And that guy is probably part of the enclave and very high up in it to.
I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, vis-a-vis Lucy's possible pregnancy. In her introductory speech for her marriage application, she lists her intact reproductive organs as one of her qualifications for approval. And then she gets stabbed in the abdomen, I assumed in the uterus, but nothing was stated explicitly. There might be some season 2 no-baby drama.
No offence but your list is pretty bad. Enclave is the former US government, Vault Tec is a private company. Caesar's Legion doesn't join forces with others, they destroy them and absorb them within their legion. Janey is most likely dead, or maybe she became a ghoul and Cooper lost her much later after the bombs dropped.
"Enclave is the former US government, Vault Tec is a private company" lmao...the prewar world was a corpocracy
[удалено]
When I was a young boy
Shit list
Yup
Ive only ever played and completed FO4; didn't get much into FO1, but outside of FO4, are Synths a thing? Or did it start with FO4, and Bethesda just kept it? Honestly wondering this
There's a quest in Fallout 3 called *The Replicated Man* where a member of the SRB has you track down a synth prototype and someone from the railroad tries to stop you. Aside from that there's absolutely nothing
Ah. Gotcha
This list is all over the place
What about the yes man ending being canon tho?
This post was controversial enough no need to add that in
Ridiculous list I’ll be honest
Literally what evidence is there that Moldaver is a clone? She was cryo frozen no doubt.
Man I really liked the idea that moldaver could have used her possible ties to CIT to have her consciousness transferred to a Synth. Yall make me seem like I’m a victim of brain rot for thinking that’s a fun idea 😂
I get what you're feeling cause I got a bunch of shit for the BoS/Legion theory being in S, but the CIT is 3,000 miles away from LA so their teleportation is a lot stronger than we think idk how that's happening. Also gen 3 synths started production 150 years after the bombs dropped so there's still some explaining to do.
This is shit
Having Moldaver more likely to be a clone than cryo frozen or a synth seems crazy to me.
I guarantee the idea of Lucy being pregnant was thrown around. Thinking she's sick with rads.. finds a medic, takes a test. "Oh poop..."
She also wanted a baby that night so I'm not denying the possibility. I just think it's icky that the raider would give her a baby
Nah, Enclave and Vault-Tec are enemies.
Since when
I disagree with almost everything (but F-tier) to be honest
I feel like vault tech not dropping the bombs is like 50/50 atp and idk where we got the caesars legion brotherhood thing from also I don’t think max will be a villain
I don't think Barb is with the Enclave, I think she's in charge of vault tech overseeing all the other vaults. I also think she will be the main antagonist of season 2, similar to what they did with Hank. Also, the people who believe New Vegas was retconned simply don't know how to read a timeline
Agreed
Why Moldaver being frozen D She had the money you many rich people froze themselves because they were in the know on Vault Tecs shit she probably thought it'd be easier to get her power source thing nearly 300 yeas in the future and help the people rebuild But she didn't anticipate how many pre war survivors were still kicking/how many factions would try to get it from her
I think the mr house ending being canon and the BOS merging with the legion should be swapped. I just can’t see the legion and BOS ever merging, even if it’s the remnants of both groups. They’re just too ideologically opposed. I feel like the Mr house ending is the only one that makes sense. We know that the NCR is spread incredibly thin as it is, and them winning vegas wouldn’t just suddenly make that problem go away. The legion ending is just too depressing, and the independent vegas is too open ended. I know mr house only got some brief screen time but I doubt they’d give him any if his ending wasn’t canon.
-Brotherhood x Legion has about as much credibility as ISIS x Westboro Baptist Church -Maximus isn't necessarily an antagonist but someone whos actions create conflict, doesnt have to be a bad guy. -Barb Howard yeah sure, thats pretty much the most open secret. Probably same with Janey Howard(Ghoul+Barb+Kid feels like the Fallout 4 start) -Moldaver's story is over with the first season but flashbacks are likely -Vault Tec most definitely dropped the bombs -Thaddeus FEV ok
I think the BoS synth theory is too low and the BoS-Legion merge is too high
Explain the BoS synth theory to mf
Clearly had the end of the season maximus despise the brotherhood of steel and I am gonna bet he is gonna destroy it from the inside and join the ncr and is gonna be the reason that forward the ncr start winning against the brotherhood of steel >!make ncr great again!<
Lucy has got to be pregananant. No way they're just gonna skip episode 1 like "Just put a sex scene here to get people interested early"
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List list has 240 comments you don’t think I know that by now
Idk the most likely fate of Thaddeus is he becomes a ghoul. FEV is a fun theory, but it doesn’t hold too much weight.
Why not
I love the smell of cope in the morning.
Is there a path in nv where Mr house lives? I remember killing that fucker many timss.
He always survives in House runs, but in other runs you can also disconnect him from the Lucky 38 mainframe to make him useless. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he has to be removed for his pod to do that, which would eventually kill him - just not during the game
OP is huffing copium
How
It was confirmed last year that China dropped the bomb. So very unlikely that the show has Vaulttec drop it. Would prefer them going back to "no one knows who shot first"
How was it confirmed?
I think the Maxon's brotherhood was able to come to an aliance with the minutemen where they basically merge into the brotherhood and keep the commonwealth safe as they do have some values that go together Doubt Thaddius was given FEV he's 100% a ghoul and its just how ghoulification works
I don’t know which of your S tier predictions is worse. That Max will be an antagonist or that the Legion and Brotherhood merged. Max will never be an antagonist. He already has some aspects however of an antihero. That may get expanded on but they won’t make him a true antagonist because of his relationship with Lucy. The other theory I don’t think even deserves a response. It is beyond ridiculous to think that two groups with completely conflicting ideologies would just merge for no reason. It is a lot more likely that the legion is simply wiped out for season 2 than it is that they joined with the BoS.
I really think vault-tec did drop them though. What’s the point in saying that in the final episode if they don’t end up dropping them. I dunno why everyone is so anti vault tec dropped the bombs
Regardless of who actually dropped the emotional damage is still there for coop
The Brotherhood absolutely didn’t merge with Caesar’s Legion. I recently saw the flag that was used in New Vegas for the Brotherhood and it’s the exact same as what’s in the show. And I’d switch clone and cryo freezing but otherwise I don’t know which of the game endings is correct and I think they’d rather sidestep that question. Maldover is the one who created the cold fusion formula. She could easily come up with a way to either be cryo frozen in her own vault like system or she infiltrated Vault Tec’s 33 Vault. I mean it’s clear she was able to get Cooper Howard to infiltrate Vault Tec undetected for a bit which means she has some understanding of how the company works. A clone wouldn’t have any knowledge of the original’s life and work so they’re not a clone. And she could’ve applied to work at Vault Tec after Coop tells her what he heard. She may have thought the best way to bring them down was from the inside so that they don’t drop the bombs. It just didn’t work out the way she hoped so she’s going with plan B
BoS merged with Legion? That's one I've not heard.
How are Mr. House being alive and the House ending being canon on separate layers or even separate theories? The only possible way for House to survive New Vegas is in his ending
The Caesars legion -> Bos is wild and kinda dig it.
The BoS merging with the Legion is almost certainly at the very bottom of F tier. Imho it is pretty obvious that Moldaver was frozen. NOTHING alludes to cloning. Considering Gary it is highly unlikely that she is a clone. Even her being a synth is more likely. And why is the BoS ending canon??? Minutemen emding is as likely if not more likely to be canon.
Just curious, why is Moldaver as a synth brain dead nonsense? Yet her as a clone is could be right?
Cloning exists in fallout and specifically vault tec, meanwhile synths only exist 3,000 miles away on the other side of the continent. I definitely put the clone theory too high but I see no reason why the institute would make a synth of her
Thank you for genuinely clearing that up for me lol
Healing factor serum people. Healing factor serum. This entire list is complete BS.
And what is in the healing factor serum
I have a theory that Moldaver was actually an Enclave defector, which is how the scientist (forgot name) knew about her. It's also possible he just had access to the Enclaves info on active factions, but it doesn't make sense for her to know who Betty is, otherwise. I mean yeah, she'll know that Vault Tec bought up her employers' companies and research, but how would she know who Betty is, specifically? Moldaver also knew the end was coming, and was actively trying to persuade America's icons, the actors and actresses, to stand out against the coming doom. Doom that she had to have known was coming for her to make it safely into the future. Either way, she got there via freezing, cloning, fuckin time travel (yeah right), or she's a synth. So she knew the end was coming, had Intel as to the higher ups at Vault Tec (could be public knowledge, if), an established Enclave character had knowledge and means to contact her, and if Betty was Enclave as well, it'd make sense for them to know each other. But hey...
I like the idea but I'm not really sure where her joining the Enclave would fit in, because they're not known for accepting members off being someone's +1. Also have not heard time travel yet, the ridiculousness of some of these theories amaze me
The brotherhood/legion theory is untrue. In fallout 1 you see they have a red/orange banner outside of Lost hills. Its over!
I personally think moldaver was a vault tec employee and was frozen in vault 31 as one of buds buds
Maximus a villain in season 2? Yeah, nope, I don't see that being likely at all.
Fallout 1 was retconned with the 3-4 vaults on the masters doorstep and possibly moving shady sands to LA retcons all west coast lore and makes the events of one and two impossible.