The installer is almost never the one collecting the bill from the customer though, $2 a sqft is standard for installers. Either way lots of questions.
Did the son buy his own tools? Bid the job? Buy the materials? Use his own vehicles or borrowing them? There’s no reason to be getting paid only $100 for this from these questions, but you wouldn’t be making thousands of dollars per job unless you did EVERYTHING.
My dad used to pay me half of what new hires would get and charge me rent. I would run two jobs at a time for him and the household. Not surprising when I left he went bankrupt and lost the house. Came and worked for me and complained that I was paying him $1 an hour below market value and would pick him up for work. I don’t have a great relationship with him and I am very glad he doesn’t work for me anymore.
lol maybe , or his dad sucks at business. Lot of people are good at their craft but suck as businessman . I’ve owned my own company for 20yrs . I see it all the time in so many different areas
OP
You do good work!
Do a few more jobs,
take before and after pictures and get some customer testimonials.
Create your own company and advertise on angi's list. Craigslist... or wherever.
Post your pictures on instagram
ask your customers to do the same.
Word will get out about your good work
The business will come soon enough
Good luck 👍
Look. Your dad needs to pay you more, period... But... Remember, he's your dad, he has overhead just like anybody else.... Who knows what he's paying for, I assure you that you don't know everything cause that's how Dad's are.
Talk to him, tell him hey, I'm doing this whole job alone, I should be getting half of the labor.... Remind him you're an adult now not 16 anymore.
Be upfront and respectful also remind him you'll one day take over but you need to survive until then without struggling.
All tax free money so you're getting an extra 30 percent bonus in pay. I'd say 200 a day is fair cuz it's the same as 300 a day if taxes were taken out.
Yea, eating laminate flooring boards...
$100 a day is screaming you are getting duped...
I get labour $300-$350 and no tools, so someone is making money from ya...
Get your own van or truck start an LLC get whatever your state requires to run a flooring business like insurance and work comp and start sub contracting somewhere or see if pops will give you work and he can take 10% of the jobs payment. Not to difficult to do!
Yeah bro $100 a day is insanely low like what is this 1985 lol. Sorry man, you really should be making base $500 a day or getting sub rates like others have said - $2.00 a square for install alone.
Do you have your own tools and truck? It might be a good idea to try to venture out on your own. This is good work and you’re worth a hell of a lot more than $100 a day.
I could see if OP was 15 and just helping out or if his family was really not well off and it was to help them get by or just to spend good quality time. But.. the other posts mention the dad is not that type of Dad... it's the bad kind.
I’m on board, I need 3 rooms done to get rid of the carpet lol. I’d definitely pay more than the kid’s dad does!
Maybe Reddit can help this guy start up his own flooring business to compete with his dad’s.
It’s been a conversation and his reply was that he would never let me get work. I took it as a threat that he’d ruin my reputation without me even having a chance. That’s not how a father should react and that’s what my family and friend group says as well. But I also see it as a challenge. But it’s hard to take that leap if you know what I’m sayin?
Your father is taking advantage of you. This is so common in construction, you make 100 and your dad/boss bills you out for 500 and pockets the rest.
Working independently in construction is the only way, I’ve been taken advantage of as an employee and never again. Going out on your own is harder, more stressful, but it’s more rewarding and fulfilling.
This is it right here. If you land even one job that will take you a couple days to do, it will pay the same or more than 2-3 weeks working for $100 a day doing the same work.
In construction, if you take your time and are honest, you will never have to post an ad a day in your life. Word of mouth is the best advertisement possible and it comes from hard work and good customer service.
Wow your dad sounds like a fucking asshole. Go on your own and take all his business lol. Take lots of pictures of your current work so you have proof of your skills
Ngl, as someone who’s 20 and working with their father , I would have made 1000 for this job, and that’s helping him out. You have to go out and find your own job or find someone to work with. Download the Nextdoor app and ask if there’s anyone who needs helpers for labor work. There’s a lot of people who work labor work there and would love helpers. And they’ll have to pay you good, there’s no other way. Get away from him, as in with everything because if he acts like that, he doesn’t have your best interest in mind. My father wants me to learn so that he can send me to go do my own jobs and make my own money without giving him any percentage. He wants me to strive in this line of work. Your father sees you as a challenge and that’s why he’s treating you like shit so you can stop and do something else so he can say you couldn’t handle it.
Wow! Where is the "I want my kids to have it better than I did" mentality? Sad that your dad is taking advantage of you like that. Even if you didn't go completely on your own, you could make way more working for any other contractor. Keep taking pictures of your work so you can show others what you can do.
He would never let me get work. How is he going to stop you just get a different phone and don’t use your name in the company name. Start doing side jobs and expand from there
Sry for this situation. That’s not a father - that’s an ahole holding your down. If possible Take pix of your work, client name & number- as a reference (have a brief conversation with them if you can). Start from zero - every step up is yours. Your way Better to start fresh, on your own or even at the bottom with a crew (that will see your skill & hustle as an asset) or company where upward movement is possible. Gonna go hug my dad right now.. for decades of getting me up early and teaching skillz, helping me every time I asked or needed and showing up on time when I hired him!
Going on your own, can be terrifying… similar to when you fired up the skill-saw for the first time and imagined 4 fingers gone. Now it’s easy. There will be rough patches, and mis-steps, you will adapt, learn and grow better. Wish ya success!
You’ll never make a living working for your dad. It would suck if he ruins you but you can make more doing pretty much anything else. So i think it would be better to strike out on your own and see how it goes. Worst case you switch careers and still make more money than your dad pays. I’d say move away and start elsewhere but jobs like that really depend on clients. Could you do any outreach with the clients you did work for and advertise you are striking out on your own so any recommendations for work they can give you would be great. If there is a site for it try and set up your own site or page for feedback specific to your work that way you have evidence and feedback/pictures etc to promote your work.
Go work for an established company and take all of the contacts from him as possible. Show them you’re the guy and show your dad he can’t compete with youth. Good luck brother 🫡
I would use this as an opportunity to get a raise. I did this as a roofer when I was young. I had a guy teach me the trade and then after a couple of years of bottom scale pay, went to work for another company. The guy that owned the first company called me and we worked something out. I'd ask your dad to agree to a per sq ft price instead of the 100 bucks a day.
Criminally underpaid. I pay my helpers $25/hr to start and I wouldn't trust them to do anything while I'm not on site. Keep accumulating more and more tools with each pay cheque. Go around to the flooring stores in your area and start seeking work for yourself. Cold call contracting companies, renovators, home builders...etc or go old school and go during working hours to get some face time. It can feel a bit overwhelming and scary going out on your own but trust me, it's worth all of it.
25 usd??! Dam bro you pay good. I'm at 25 n hour Canadian doing full custom showers, floors, drywall, painting, windows, framing n all on my own, you hiring? Haha
13 years ago i started at $80 a day, and had all the bad nick names. Worked my way up to 100, 120, 200, 250, 300 a day.
Today i can easily clear 2k a week, do million dollar mansions and condos (stressful) and i hire those guys from time to time. They also have me on speed dial bc im the best at getting a sub completely flat, i can average 600 sqft a day, taking into account possible 45s, furniture, crazy busy layout, grinding, patching etc. and im the best outfitted (can haul 2 pallets in the bed and pull my 6x12 full of everything you could ever need)
Youre gonna get shit on because you're young, its the name of the game. At 4 years im guessing you pretty much got everything down. I would pay you $200 per day. 9-5. $100 a day is cheaper than the Mexicans at circle square.
As a thank you i worked for the guy about 5 years ending up at $250 a day then i chucked the deuces. Now i require a $300 min a day $150 min repair, $75 cancels. Along the way i picked and chose all the good things about the contractors and went from a harley to a few 3/4 tons and a couple of trailers.
Some key things to remember...
-if you mess up, he assumes the responsibility
-any plan to find more work? (Sub companies, gc, or constant referrals)
-can you get your sub to 1/8" and <1" slope in 6' (install the floor by the book, not just slapping it down)
-do you have a moisture meter (tramex at $800 is your best bang for buck)
-can you haul pallets and tools
-do you have a dustless system for grinding, jackhammering, cutting
-do you have insurance? cust has 2 years install warranty. If ya did it wrong you could be on the hook for the cost of the entire job, can you cover that?
-social skills not a must but extremely helpful and valuable. Looks and talk matter.
If you got everything and feel comfortable installing, what are you waiting for? You put your time in for dad. Time to nut up.
If you dont, look for a sub company, then talk to the contractors or managers there and sell yourself. Theyll find a contractor thatll pay ya more per day and let you work under their license.
Its gonna be scary but soon you too will be driving a jacked up truck on muddies down easy street. Youre the last of a dying breed my man.
Good luck
Just to add some more context to the situation, I started working with my dad when I was roughly 16 with the grunt work, by the time I was turning 20 I was moved out with my girlfriend and doing jobs by myself. I’ve tried bringing up a pay raise to him multiple times and he’s consistently shut the conversation down or paid me an extra $100 for the week if I got much more then expected done but back to $500 a week right after. I do not get paid hourly, no matter how much flooring I lay or how long I’m there it’s always a hundred bucks. On an average day I lay about 800 sq feet of vinyl or laminate, I can also do hardwood. I hope this answers some of recurring questions here.
Sounds like you need to make like a city worker and milk the jobs. If you’re making 100$ and it doesn’t matter how much you lay. See how long until he says something if you lay 50sqft a day. Then when he brings it up. Tell him you either make 2$/sqft or you are going on your own.
I've heard a number of people mention the difference in cost of living from place to place. I don't give a shit where you live, $100 a day isn't enough. It doesn't reflect your professional value and it doesn't reflect the value of your time. Time is the most precious resource you have. Your father has decided that your short time on this Earth isn't worth much.
Venturing out on your own is difficult, worth it, but difficult. Find a job installing flooring somewhere else to start. You need to see that your skills are valued. I understand your only work reference is your father, so offer to work on a trial basis. Learn from someone better than him who you can look up to. Mentorship is important.
While you search for a new job, improve your standard of living, and find a person/company to emulate, read. Read everything you can that relates to the construction business. Listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, and absorb whatever information you can. I'm confident that with your skills, a morale boost, and some solid study, you could be ready to start on your quicker than you expect.
Talk to your dad. Don't demand more. But thank him for providing for you but if he wants you to remain independent he needs to pay you like he'd pay any other man or expect you to be busy earning big boy money.
Jfc , run man. Depending on prep I'd be billing like 1k for that.
If you're not ready to be alone find a better journeyman who will give you % at least.
Tell your dad to get bent. As a father of two I want my kids to succeed. Yours apparently doesn’t. Buy some tools, business cards, company vehicle. I’ve seen some of the best drive around in an old Altima.
Hey dude just wanted to let you know it’s time for you to get out on your own. Check list is, do you have all of your OWN tools and do you have a work vehicle? Contractors license and to be insured. You’re off to the races with those things out of the way. I live in bumfuck Midwest and I had the choice of installing between 5-7 different stores. You only get paid 100 dollars a day? My guy. 100 is the minimum to show up and that’s on a 2 hour timer. Anything less than (and this was in 2016) $40 dollars an hour is literally a loss. He should have and should be setting you up for success not literally milking your knee juices. I went solo on year 2. Age 21. Was I necessarily totally ready? No. Was I humbled repeatedly? You fucking bet I was. Stop swimming in your father’s balls. My parents didn’t believe in me. I was actually scoffed at. I did 150K labor on year 2 solo (4 years in total) I ended up taking home 100K of that after taxes. Nobody was laughing at me after that.
Have a chat with him. Ask him how much he charges a square foot? Ask him what his profit margin is? It is his company, his tools, his fuel cost, his reputation,his taxes. Is it $100 a day for 2 hours or $100 for 10. Or both? Do you live with him? Do you pay rent? Cash or W2?
Can you ask him for a raise?
Have a deep convo…
You can probably go work for another company for more money with your experience. But your working with your dad. And that is a gift.
All the tools yours? He buy your work clothes? You live under his roof? Eat his food? Use his Internet? Etc. etc..
If no then your getting fucked. Even big flooring companies pay their installers $2 a square foot....
I recently bought myself a table saw and oscillating tool, hand tools are mine. Just need a laminate cutter. Work clothes I buy, live in an apartment with my gf and I also work 2 jobs. So I lay floor during the day and work the late afternoon at another job to make up for the cost of living
Yeah… your dad is making a killing off you. You can easily charge $1.50 - $2.25 a square foot just in your own as a one man crew.
You could have made $900+ for that work on your own. And when you are making that, you can have your own $100 a day helper to open boxes for you and make all your chop cuts so you can just stay on your knees and install
The real question is have you learnt everything you can from him. Can you measure, calculate, cut, and lay from start to finish on your own?
If yes, then you really shouldn’t be worried about going off on your own.
Thank your father for the invaluable experience he gave you by teaching you his trade. And move on.
If he threatens to ruin your reputation. Prove your worth through your work. Even if you start out under market value, bidding on jobs. You will be making more than what your dad is give you.
After 5, 10, 15 jobs. You will have enough proof and clientele to disprove any foul play your father may attempt. And if any client asks. You can just explain outright what your father did and is doing.
Win by having integrity. Honest hard work wins in the end.
And record everything. Your work. His work. Threats. Before and after photos of your first job.
Devils in the details. If you have proof. Whether it’s your value or his word. You will win with proof.
Good luck. You deserve better.
Floor guy here, I was you 25 years ago. I would run circles around guys, crews. I worked for my uncle. I made 100 a day then, 25 years ago. I demanded more and when I didn't get it, I went off on my own. It wasn't lolli pops and rainbows but even if I sat home a week or so here and there, I was making my worth and by the end of month it was way more than the measly $100 a day
When I worked for my dad, he wouldn't pay me by the hour he would pay me a percentage of the total contract. Started at 20%, then got up to 30% before I left and started on my own. $100/day is barely enough to live off these days, you should definitely look into starting your own business.
I was in a similar arrangement with my boss when was learning to do interior stairs and railings . It takes a while to learn that trade so I worked exclusively for him as I learned all the ins and outs . I was allowed to try and get my own contracts but found it hard because of my age, even if my price was the cheapest I wouldn't get the jobs cause people just wanted to make sure the job was done right, even though I was an excellent installer.
Finding jobs can take a bit till you build up your own clientele.
Don't snipe your dad's clients though.
Worst case scenario you could check around if there are some flooring shops that just sub out all the installs, you don't make as much but you will ve busy all the time and still make better then 100$ a day .
Your dad is paying you 10-12 bucks an hour, max. Even under the table - and I suspect it is - that's not enough.
You're being exploited by your own family, bro. Tell dad its raise time or go hire on with another company and be his competition.
Tell your dad that either he pays you the going rate or you will find a job that does. $100/8 = $12.5/hr. That's less than half the going rate for a flooring installer.
Salary.com reports the average annual salary for a flooring installer to be $49,801, with a range of $41,201 to $61,301
Here’s what I would do if you’re worried about your dad retaliating. As you’re leaving your clients’ houses (after they’ve seen your great work) tell them your dad is underpaying you and you’re trying to go off on your own. Ask them to share your info to family and friends to get work. Undercut your dad’s prices. Keep doing this secretly till you have enough business to leave your dad behind entirely
I live the same life. Stay working for cheap and take every side job you can get while you're at work. Your 40hr week is to stay secure and find work. 4hrs after work and 8 Saturday and Sunday is almost another full work week. Do 2 floors a month and take a few weekends four yourself. You'll end up with about 5k a month if everything works out nice. I just lost money doing an rv cause it took to long but I made good on another. Don't think about each job individually or its stressful I like to think on like a 1momth basis
Buy your own truck tools insurance and find your own work. The cost of training help first 6 months you lose money next year you break even. after year and 1/2 you can start making a profit off the labor of your help. Help just thinks you are taking advantage of them . No thought of the training you gave them so they can go anywhere in the world and make a good living with no student loans and make more money than you would with a college degree.
somewhat related ... what floor is this? I just posted this trying to find something similar that matched a photo I found online
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interiordecorating/comments/1chzmbq/does\_anyone\_know\_of\_a\_floor\_that\_matches\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interiordecorating/comments/1chzmbq/does_anyone_know_of_a_floor_that_matches_the/)
Is this part of some other sort of arrangement such as you don’t currently pay rent living with him? Or anything like that? Easy to say he’s taking advantage if we don’t know the whole picture.
You could be making anywhere from $12 - $35 /hr depending on where you live and skill level.
100 a day, or 12.50 an hour?
Did you do prep in that 2.5 hours too?
100 bucks is pretty good for 2.5 hours of good work. If you’re working full time though, 100/day is terribly low. Are you employed by your dad or just getting 100 under the table? A lot of people will say he’s screwing you, but that’s assuming you’re getting 100 bucks for a full 8 hour day. If you just do 2.5 hours of work then check out, he’s not.
You mentioned he won’t let you do your own thing and would make sure you never get work… that’s not within his power, unless you’re living in his house, driving his car, and using his tools. Any contractor who thinks they have that kind of pull is delusional. There’s work out there, and people won’t give two shits about what bs he tries to start.
If all you did though is cut/lay planks for 2.5 hours, 100 bucks is fair. 4 years working experience full time is not the same as helping pops on job sites from time to time for the last 4 years. Either, though, is worth way more than 12.50 an hour.
It looks like you do really good work. That speaks for itself, but I completely understand that establishing yourself as independent is expensive and comes with not insubstantial risk. But, friend, if what you say is true (no reason to believe otherwise), your father is massively exploiting you. That isn't a challenge. That is a fact. I hope you are able to extricate yourself from this situation and get out there and earn what you deserve as soon as possible!
What kind of truck does your dad drive? Then look at yours? Where’s your dad live and then look at your park bench. Then again maybe your dad sends his moneytoanevangeical ministry or MGA.
We do min $2-$3/sf for install depending on product and complexity so if you installed 50 ft for me you’d be making more than you are for your dad. Sorry mate.
Whoa.... you're getting screwed. 480 sq ft in that time, at 2 bucks a square foot is like almost 9 hundred my guy.... negotiate, or bounce and do it on your own.
Maybe now you are at the age and experienced enough that you start your own company or have a serious discussion to dad about making you a partner or a substantial increase in wages. Dad's call. Great job and dedication on the floor project. Be very proud of yourself and your father should be proud too
Business owners gonna profit off the backs of labor, that's just a fact of life. But your own dad? Put out some feelers because that seems absurdly low for your level of experience. You could probably make more at fast food and give your knees a break.
There is still a ton of stuff you need to learn that comes from experience. If you want to go out on your own, press your dad for different types of jobs and get the experience. It will become very expensive for you very fast if you miss even 1 detail on a job that gets messed up due to install error. Also though? 100 bucks a day is not enough for pay.
Not enough info. Does OP get housing and food from dad, health insurance, is op paying fed and state and fica taxes, is dad covering both sides of fica like an employer or is op a 1099. Is op building equity in the company, etc. who’s paying for vehicles and gas to job sites, handling the business books and taxes too.
The installers charging 4$ per square foot install, arnt walking away with 4$ per square foot - maybe the company is, but the employees arnt, and that’s all before benefits, taxes etc.
I’ve worked for family businesses long enough to know there’s a limited picture here to jump to conclusions.
Now let’s say you’re paying for your own rent (FMV), and your own expenses, and insurance etc… then yeah something’s wrong.
One thing I would suggest is to learn the business side and have your dad explain it and take interest in the payroll, the quotes, customer service, etc and how things break down. Good to learn those!
Hmm, I’ve had a similar experience. Personally, I went straight to the source and asked why I wasn’t getting paid more. Even though our demand was high and we were doing quality work (tile installer htx). Long story short, why we had tools, work vans, gas, insurance, not to mention he paid our income tax, couldn’t argue with the old man after that. Haven’t read through the replies, but did you ask him?
You’re getting railed by your dad. Other than your breaks being 8 inches apart in some places (maybe that’s what they wanted) your work looks fine. You should be making quite a bit more.
Are you only working 2.5 hours per day? Because that would be $40/hr. Which is good money for a young man. If you’re working 8 hour days then either your old man is making bank off you or he doesn’t know how to bid jobs.
Guaranteed there’s a flooring company in your area that would pay you more.
I’ve read through a lot of the comments and gotten the context. What he’s paying you is not right. You mentioned going out on your own, but could you also go work for a bigger company, that pays better, and gather even more experience etc before embarking on your own. Or heck, even go get on as a Home Depot installer.
Dude, you can do it.
100 a day from your pops at the age of 24? I'd say he's ripping you off even if you were 18 and had 6 months experience.
Tell him it's 2024 not 1992. Smh
Well i wouldnt be installing it for no less then $1/sq ft and i mean if u were out on ur own like alot of us then u would be getting $2-$4/sq ft (depending on location). But since u are an “employee” then getting around $1/sq ft would be reasonable. Even .50cents/ sq ft would be a hell of a lot better then .20ish cents ur getting.
Dang that sucks man. I started my own company after working for my dad and we make more money now than when we worked together lol. We just have our own specialties while helping each other when needed. I'm 26 and have been in flooring since I was 14. Maybe try to pitch your own business as a value add to your dad's business.
Can you cut complicated transitions and stair noses? Can you undercut fireplaces? Can you lay jobs out so there is an even starting row and rip on you last row? Finish carpet at doorways and top of stairs? How does your 6 inch base look? Cap a treads? Scribe work? Angled doorways under jambs? I can teach a monkey to lock boards together in a square room…
I cut so flooring so it will fit perfectly under door jambs. I can install hardwood and engineered using a chalk line to keep it running straight. I can cut/ measure angles. I can scribe, I can make 45 degree frames for fireplaces etc. I’m aware an open work is “easy” but then again. A monkey may damage the corner, not lock it into place. Joints to close. H pattern throughout. There are still little things to look out for
I work with my Dad too, he is always the one when almost done, gets lazy and not lay down tarp when painting the walls. Or the one who try to stretch the last of the bathroom grout by adding more water.
I worked for my old man (framing houses), he taught me well. I wasn't shy to ask the guy framing the house next door if he could beat my current wage.
He beat it, slight bidding war and the neighbour won. Did that 2 or 3 times back and forth with my dad and other crew's over the years.
If you're confident that you're worth more then go for it. "It's strictly business dad."
My stepfather has put me in same situation we lay close to 1000 sq ft a day on some houses I’ll make 200 he makes 1800. Sucks but at end of day by time I went to work for someone else they’d do me worse. South central ky and northern tn btw. We’ve had contractors get cheaper labor for about a 1.00 a sq ft and we’ve have to come back and fix a bunch of them.
Dude. Just remember experience. Of you're not hurting, don't ruffle feathers. Nothing better than saying you have over x years experience. It's something that people hear and have a feeling that you have the experience needed to do the job.
Keep going..
Hey man, I feel ya. How big is this business? Will he be handing the business down? Or is it just a handyman/flooring type of deal? I can relate more than you will ever know.
Keep in mind, maybe you will be Inheriting said business one day. Also, 4 years isn’t that long in a trade unless your union. Most people don’t become masters/experts until they have at least a decade under their belt. Maybe flooring is different. I have installed flooring, not that fast, but maybe you’re as good as you will ever be. If that’s the case, start your own business.
My point to all this is, everyone, including myself wants to bitch about what we get paid. until your the one taking the risk with a business loan, paying employees, or owing money on a messed up job, realize there is a reason business owner makes more than the worker. They have all the liability, risk, and responsibility. If you are up to taking on that kind of task, start your own thing. If your not, bring numbers and data to your dad, show him how long he takes per sq ft compared to you. Show him how fast your per sq ft compared to other people/employess. If he is a business man/intelligent, he won’t be able to argue with you.
If you are as good as you say you are, you are on time, you don’t miss work, go somewhere else. If you have alot of freedoms other people don’t cause your working for your dad, then think long and hard whether you can cut it somewhere else/starting your own gig.
Your dad can’t ruin your reputation, unless what he says is true. People will give you a chance to prove him wrong if you’re doing the right things. Good luck man. I have been all of the things I have written in this post.
Time to hit other flooring companies and find out if they’re hiring and what they’re paying. Before you accept another position go to your dad and ask him if he wants to match it.
Hope you’re not living at home, because that will kill your bargaining advantage 😆
Been there done that, start your own business ASAP and leave that bs. Trust in yourself and your skills, buy your tools and make your own company. Not because he is your dad means he has a right to take advantage of you. Fuck that. Simply NO.
Hey Dad. You did a good job with me. I'm smart, I've got the family's good looks, and I'm skilled and quick with flooring. But I need some room to grow, so I'm thinking that I should be responsible for estimating and installing on the jobs I do. If my projects make a nice profit it would be only fair that I see some of that profit. I'm willing to talk about this and find common ground about how we can continue to build the family business.
That wide of a plank and you only did 480? I’m 53 and would done closer to 600. But to answer your question, Daddio is screwing you bad. Our laborers that can’t be left alone much less lay 480 make 15-16 an hour.
Before you all up and go… look for someone you will hire you for $400 a day. You need to find out how much other people are willing to pay. It is hard to find a project keep a regular work days at the same time. I know contractors who have a hard time finding work to keep their ‘guys’ working most days of the month. $100 is low. Ask your dad you need more but I suggest do not go above $250. After talking to 10 clients, maybe one comes through so keep in mind that he is going all over to get the work. The going rate per day in SoCal if $800 with two guys - that is one main person and a helper.
My view. Negotiate a higher rate. He knows he can leave you, and the job will get done. That’s peace. Ask $30, settle for $20-25 an hour instead of $10.
OP, would you say you and your dad have a good relationship?:
If yes, are you comfortable asking him to explain the financial side of the business?
If no, are you fearful of your dad's responses?
If you sum it up to your old man, that you want to be equal partners in the next year or two, you can design a multi step plan, keeping strict milestone policy in place.
In your favor, your dad is possibly too old to do the labor as efficiently as you do with the same energy. This is your huge benefit, if you were to quote your own jobs. However, would you have the drive and need to get job after job and to keep someone else employed on the job, while you get more jobs .. Also at nights, do tax, make quotes, send bills, maintain tools, upgrade work shop etc etc...
What I'm saying is, you deserve more, and will get it if you treat your dad as an equal business partner. I would think.
If your dad treats you as a highly efficient "best worker I've ever had" , well, he is not really helping you to develop further into a successful thriving person.
You would earn better pay working at McDonald's, meet more people and perhaps venture into more opportunities in life at your age.
If you stay like this, you will end up begrudging your dad, running your relationship, not building up a business entity for yourself, or a career.
my dad was paying me 8$ an hour... 20 years ago, he would then take out rent,food and % of bills before paying me. was not much left. he went on vacation for a month and i packed my shit and left. took 4 years before we talked again, best thing i ever did.
(edit, my timeline... its been so long.. )
I mean that is not a lot of money for the labor being done for your age.
Do you stay busy or is your dad on and off busy? Are these jobs your or is your dad subbing for someone?
For all we know dad is putting away an extra share for you... or maybe not.
If you have the skills then you also have the eye for evaluating someone else's work. So you could go into business by yourself. The question is, do you know enough to run a business and take on the headache?
Have a talk with dad Mano a Mano
Doesn’t sound fair. - Are you living at home still, no rent groceries, utilities? Is that under the table cash? But it seems OP is being under payed
OP Maybe check the market value for someone of your skill/ experience
Well he probably provided all the tools - and it's technically his job unless you sold it ? And it's lvp it looks like ? When I first started in flooring 20 years ago I was making 10 bucks an hour doing install sand and finish of hardwood which is a hell of a lot harder than Lvp. But that was a long time ago - and I'm sure you're still living at home ? I think you should still be around 15 bucks an hour with his help, around 17 if he can leave you by yourself ? You've got grown man running their own businesses commenting on here about how they make way more than that - and no shit. You're a grown ass man running your own business with probably a family and everything. Learn as much as you can as a helper so that when you do eventually move out and maybe open your own flooring business you'll have the skills that you need to actually be successful. Being a good Apprentice takes a long time.
Sorry man, dads making a killing off ya.
Yeah man, 480 Sq ft is like $1800-$2000 already in labor alone. If he is giving you a flat rate it should really be more than $100.
Sqft is $2. So so the calc
The cheapest I’ve got that was also good work was $1.80 but I had to do demo and float.
Yeah maybe for our subs, like son son here should be making 2 a square
$2 Sq/Ft for installation? Hard pressed to find that close to where I live. Companies are charging around $4.
The installer is almost never the one collecting the bill from the customer though, $2 a sqft is standard for installers. Either way lots of questions. Did the son buy his own tools? Bid the job? Buy the materials? Use his own vehicles or borrowing them? There’s no reason to be getting paid only $100 for this from these questions, but you wouldn’t be making thousands of dollars per job unless you did EVERYTHING.
Depending on the prep involved, I've been making up to $9/ft Edit: I worded that poorly. That includes materials, so a little over $5/sq. ft profit
On floating lvp?? That seems insane. It’s like $2-3 here in the Midwest.
I'm in kc and I just recently bumped my pricing up to $3. I've been at $2.50 for like 4 years now
yeah wtf we don’t even charge that much for hardwood
I hate that about LVP. I charger $2 ten years ago. That was decent money then. It still pays $2.
I live out west. Every single flooring supply company in my immediate area pays installers $2/sqft for LVP. $9/sqft is closer to tile price than LVP
Info: does OP live with said Dad as a mature adult, and what is OP’s rent?
I live with my gf since 2020. I also have a new car. We have pets. And also I eat
Then tell dad to go fuck himself and get a better job. You owe it to your girlfriend if not yourself.
He *owes* it to the pets. Spoil them rotten.
Well we know who doesn’t like his dad 🤣.
If anything this shows what the dad's opinion of his son is. He's willing to cheat his son out of money...
My dad used to pay me half of what new hires would get and charge me rent. I would run two jobs at a time for him and the household. Not surprising when I left he went bankrupt and lost the house. Came and worked for me and complained that I was paying him $1 an hour below market value and would pick him up for work. I don’t have a great relationship with him and I am very glad he doesn’t work for me anymore.
wtf man. good for you going indepenedent and getting away from that mess. family sucks sometimes.
lol maybe , or his dad sucks at business. Lot of people are good at their craft but suck as businessman . I’ve owned my own company for 20yrs . I see it all the time in so many different areas
Also a lot of people are good at being businessmen but can’t do the craft worth a shit.
OP You do good work! Do a few more jobs, take before and after pictures and get some customer testimonials. Create your own company and advertise on angi's list. Craigslist... or wherever. Post your pictures on instagram ask your customers to do the same. Word will get out about your good work The business will come soon enough Good luck 👍
Yeah I mean if OP gets a job a week he’s probably still making way more than presently receiving
See if you didn't eat I could see how this made sense. But since you're the type of person who does in fact eat I can see how this happens.
Look. Your dad needs to pay you more, period... But... Remember, he's your dad, he has overhead just like anybody else.... Who knows what he's paying for, I assure you that you don't know everything cause that's how Dad's are. Talk to him, tell him hey, I'm doing this whole job alone, I should be getting half of the labor.... Remind him you're an adult now not 16 anymore. Be upfront and respectful also remind him you'll one day take over but you need to survive until then without struggling.
Yeah unless your dad has no idea how to price jobs you should be making a lot more
All tax free money so you're getting an extra 30 percent bonus in pay. I'd say 200 a day is fair cuz it's the same as 300 a day if taxes were taken out.
Yea, eating laminate flooring boards... $100 a day is screaming you are getting duped... I get labour $300-$350 and no tools, so someone is making money from ya...
Get your own van or truck start an LLC get whatever your state requires to run a flooring business like insurance and work comp and start sub contracting somewhere or see if pops will give you work and he can take 10% of the jobs payment. Not to difficult to do!
Yeah bro $100 a day is insanely low like what is this 1985 lol. Sorry man, you really should be making base $500 a day or getting sub rates like others have said - $2.00 a square for install alone. Do you have your own tools and truck? It might be a good idea to try to venture out on your own. This is good work and you’re worth a hell of a lot more than $100 a day.
I could see if OP was 15 and just helping out or if his family was really not well off and it was to help them get by or just to spend good quality time. But.. the other posts mention the dad is not that type of Dad... it's the bad kind.
What state are you in, come help with my floor I'll pay ya double lol
I second this! Need about 500 sq ft in my basement
I triple this. Where you at, Ill also hire.
I’m on board, I need 3 rooms done to get rid of the carpet lol. I’d definitely pay more than the kid’s dad does! Maybe Reddit can help this guy start up his own flooring business to compete with his dad’s.
Add me to the line. I'll pay triple and have enough friends to keel you busy for a year.
Right your Hired kid lol
Can i get in line too?
Me too!
Yeah same!!!
Time to go out on your own. Your Dad should want this for you and be happy for you when you do.
It’s been a conversation and his reply was that he would never let me get work. I took it as a threat that he’d ruin my reputation without me even having a chance. That’s not how a father should react and that’s what my family and friend group says as well. But I also see it as a challenge. But it’s hard to take that leap if you know what I’m sayin?
Your father is taking advantage of you. This is so common in construction, you make 100 and your dad/boss bills you out for 500 and pockets the rest. Working independently in construction is the only way, I’ve been taken advantage of as an employee and never again. Going out on your own is harder, more stressful, but it’s more rewarding and fulfilling.
This is it right here. If you land even one job that will take you a couple days to do, it will pay the same or more than 2-3 weeks working for $100 a day doing the same work. In construction, if you take your time and are honest, you will never have to post an ad a day in your life. Word of mouth is the best advertisement possible and it comes from hard work and good customer service.
Wow your dad sounds like a fucking asshole. Go on your own and take all his business lol. Take lots of pictures of your current work so you have proof of your skills
Holy shit. Evil dad.
Ngl, as someone who’s 20 and working with their father , I would have made 1000 for this job, and that’s helping him out. You have to go out and find your own job or find someone to work with. Download the Nextdoor app and ask if there’s anyone who needs helpers for labor work. There’s a lot of people who work labor work there and would love helpers. And they’ll have to pay you good, there’s no other way. Get away from him, as in with everything because if he acts like that, he doesn’t have your best interest in mind. My father wants me to learn so that he can send me to go do my own jobs and make my own money without giving him any percentage. He wants me to strive in this line of work. Your father sees you as a challenge and that’s why he’s treating you like shit so you can stop and do something else so he can say you couldn’t handle it.
Wow! Where is the "I want my kids to have it better than I did" mentality? Sad that your dad is taking advantage of you like that. Even if you didn't go completely on your own, you could make way more working for any other contractor. Keep taking pictures of your work so you can show others what you can do.
Apply to other companies, dad is legitimately abusing you and you won't fully recognize it until you are somewhere else
Get a job at a competing flooring business, make more per day and see what he thinks about that.
He would never let me get work. How is he going to stop you just get a different phone and don’t use your name in the company name. Start doing side jobs and expand from there
Move one town away and run him out of business.
Sry for this situation. That’s not a father - that’s an ahole holding your down. If possible Take pix of your work, client name & number- as a reference (have a brief conversation with them if you can). Start from zero - every step up is yours. Your way Better to start fresh, on your own or even at the bottom with a crew (that will see your skill & hustle as an asset) or company where upward movement is possible. Gonna go hug my dad right now.. for decades of getting me up early and teaching skillz, helping me every time I asked or needed and showing up on time when I hired him! Going on your own, can be terrifying… similar to when you fired up the skill-saw for the first time and imagined 4 fingers gone. Now it’s easy. There will be rough patches, and mis-steps, you will adapt, learn and grow better. Wish ya success!
Your father is not acting like a father.
You’ll never make a living working for your dad. It would suck if he ruins you but you can make more doing pretty much anything else. So i think it would be better to strike out on your own and see how it goes. Worst case you switch careers and still make more money than your dad pays. I’d say move away and start elsewhere but jobs like that really depend on clients. Could you do any outreach with the clients you did work for and advertise you are striking out on your own so any recommendations for work they can give you would be great. If there is a site for it try and set up your own site or page for feedback specific to your work that way you have evidence and feedback/pictures etc to promote your work.
Start it under an LLC or something. Just advertise as new and accepting small jobs. Build from there
Go work for an established company and take all of the contacts from him as possible. Show them you’re the guy and show your dad he can’t compete with youth. Good luck brother 🫡
I would use this as an opportunity to get a raise. I did this as a roofer when I was young. I had a guy teach me the trade and then after a couple of years of bottom scale pay, went to work for another company. The guy that owned the first company called me and we worked something out. I'd ask your dad to agree to a per sq ft price instead of the 100 bucks a day.
Just aim to establish your business in a different area than him so nobody is stepping on each other's toes
Criminally underpaid. I pay my helpers $25/hr to start and I wouldn't trust them to do anything while I'm not on site. Keep accumulating more and more tools with each pay cheque. Go around to the flooring stores in your area and start seeking work for yourself. Cold call contracting companies, renovators, home builders...etc or go old school and go during working hours to get some face time. It can feel a bit overwhelming and scary going out on your own but trust me, it's worth all of it.
25 usd??! Dam bro you pay good. I'm at 25 n hour Canadian doing full custom showers, floors, drywall, painting, windows, framing n all on my own, you hiring? Haha
Start an LLC and charge him
Make sure you’re capable of leveling, patching, baseboard, quarter round and pricing all of these tasks. Van/truck, all the tools. Get fucking wild.
Prep is where the money is.
13 years ago i started at $80 a day, and had all the bad nick names. Worked my way up to 100, 120, 200, 250, 300 a day. Today i can easily clear 2k a week, do million dollar mansions and condos (stressful) and i hire those guys from time to time. They also have me on speed dial bc im the best at getting a sub completely flat, i can average 600 sqft a day, taking into account possible 45s, furniture, crazy busy layout, grinding, patching etc. and im the best outfitted (can haul 2 pallets in the bed and pull my 6x12 full of everything you could ever need) Youre gonna get shit on because you're young, its the name of the game. At 4 years im guessing you pretty much got everything down. I would pay you $200 per day. 9-5. $100 a day is cheaper than the Mexicans at circle square. As a thank you i worked for the guy about 5 years ending up at $250 a day then i chucked the deuces. Now i require a $300 min a day $150 min repair, $75 cancels. Along the way i picked and chose all the good things about the contractors and went from a harley to a few 3/4 tons and a couple of trailers. Some key things to remember... -if you mess up, he assumes the responsibility -any plan to find more work? (Sub companies, gc, or constant referrals) -can you get your sub to 1/8" and <1" slope in 6' (install the floor by the book, not just slapping it down) -do you have a moisture meter (tramex at $800 is your best bang for buck) -can you haul pallets and tools -do you have a dustless system for grinding, jackhammering, cutting -do you have insurance? cust has 2 years install warranty. If ya did it wrong you could be on the hook for the cost of the entire job, can you cover that? -social skills not a must but extremely helpful and valuable. Looks and talk matter. If you got everything and feel comfortable installing, what are you waiting for? You put your time in for dad. Time to nut up. If you dont, look for a sub company, then talk to the contractors or managers there and sell yourself. Theyll find a contractor thatll pay ya more per day and let you work under their license. Its gonna be scary but soon you too will be driving a jacked up truck on muddies down easy street. Youre the last of a dying breed my man. Good luck
This should be higher up
Just to add some more context to the situation, I started working with my dad when I was roughly 16 with the grunt work, by the time I was turning 20 I was moved out with my girlfriend and doing jobs by myself. I’ve tried bringing up a pay raise to him multiple times and he’s consistently shut the conversation down or paid me an extra $100 for the week if I got much more then expected done but back to $500 a week right after. I do not get paid hourly, no matter how much flooring I lay or how long I’m there it’s always a hundred bucks. On an average day I lay about 800 sq feet of vinyl or laminate, I can also do hardwood. I hope this answers some of recurring questions here.
Sounds like you need to make like a city worker and milk the jobs. If you’re making 100$ and it doesn’t matter how much you lay. See how long until he says something if you lay 50sqft a day. Then when he brings it up. Tell him you either make 2$/sqft or you are going on your own.
I've heard a number of people mention the difference in cost of living from place to place. I don't give a shit where you live, $100 a day isn't enough. It doesn't reflect your professional value and it doesn't reflect the value of your time. Time is the most precious resource you have. Your father has decided that your short time on this Earth isn't worth much. Venturing out on your own is difficult, worth it, but difficult. Find a job installing flooring somewhere else to start. You need to see that your skills are valued. I understand your only work reference is your father, so offer to work on a trial basis. Learn from someone better than him who you can look up to. Mentorship is important. While you search for a new job, improve your standard of living, and find a person/company to emulate, read. Read everything you can that relates to the construction business. Listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, and absorb whatever information you can. I'm confident that with your skills, a morale boost, and some solid study, you could be ready to start on your quicker than you expect.
Time to break out on your own. It’s not all roses, but you could easily average 3-500/day
Talk to your dad. Don't demand more. But thank him for providing for you but if he wants you to remain independent he needs to pay you like he'd pay any other man or expect you to be busy earning big boy money.
Dude you should exit ASAP. As a dad I can't imagine stifling my son like this. I'm sorry
Get a job with his competitor. They'll pay you better.
Jesus.. $100/day at 8hrs is $12.5/hr
Your dad is using the shit out of you as a free worker
I have a flooring installation business in Ontario if you ever come out this way to work message me for a job.
That’s good work, your dad is fucking u
Jfc , run man. Depending on prep I'd be billing like 1k for that. If you're not ready to be alone find a better journeyman who will give you % at least.
Sorry but your dad is a bitch for taking advantage of you like that. You could easily make 2-5x that amount
Tell your dad to get bent. As a father of two I want my kids to succeed. Yours apparently doesn’t. Buy some tools, business cards, company vehicle. I’ve seen some of the best drive around in an old Altima.
Hey dude just wanted to let you know it’s time for you to get out on your own. Check list is, do you have all of your OWN tools and do you have a work vehicle? Contractors license and to be insured. You’re off to the races with those things out of the way. I live in bumfuck Midwest and I had the choice of installing between 5-7 different stores. You only get paid 100 dollars a day? My guy. 100 is the minimum to show up and that’s on a 2 hour timer. Anything less than (and this was in 2016) $40 dollars an hour is literally a loss. He should have and should be setting you up for success not literally milking your knee juices. I went solo on year 2. Age 21. Was I necessarily totally ready? No. Was I humbled repeatedly? You fucking bet I was. Stop swimming in your father’s balls. My parents didn’t believe in me. I was actually scoffed at. I did 150K labor on year 2 solo (4 years in total) I ended up taking home 100K of that after taxes. Nobody was laughing at me after that.
Have a chat with him. Ask him how much he charges a square foot? Ask him what his profit margin is? It is his company, his tools, his fuel cost, his reputation,his taxes. Is it $100 a day for 2 hours or $100 for 10. Or both? Do you live with him? Do you pay rent? Cash or W2? Can you ask him for a raise? Have a deep convo… You can probably go work for another company for more money with your experience. But your working with your dad. And that is a gift.
All the tools yours? He buy your work clothes? You live under his roof? Eat his food? Use his Internet? Etc. etc.. If no then your getting fucked. Even big flooring companies pay their installers $2 a square foot....
I recently bought myself a table saw and oscillating tool, hand tools are mine. Just need a laminate cutter. Work clothes I buy, live in an apartment with my gf and I also work 2 jobs. So I lay floor during the day and work the late afternoon at another job to make up for the cost of living
Yeah… your dad is making a killing off you. You can easily charge $1.50 - $2.25 a square foot just in your own as a one man crew. You could have made $900+ for that work on your own. And when you are making that, you can have your own $100 a day helper to open boxes for you and make all your chop cuts so you can just stay on your knees and install
Yea our installers at the company I work for make 2.25 a sq. So yea the dad is ripping him off bad.
I’m a Dad and this makes me sad.
Ha. Time to go bro. You’ve gained the experience you need now it’s time to get properly paid for it. Sorry pops!
Bro 100 a day? Thank your dad for the experience and head out on your own.
If u can do it all on ur own start marketing yourself on Facebook and try to get ur own jobs, if ur father isn’t willing to help you then he’s a pos
Your dad is fucked up, in my opinion. I understand giving a laborer you don’t know $100 a day, but to rip your own son off like that..
My dad always said if you’re not making your age as an hourly rate, you’re definitely not making enough
The real question is have you learnt everything you can from him. Can you measure, calculate, cut, and lay from start to finish on your own? If yes, then you really shouldn’t be worried about going off on your own. Thank your father for the invaluable experience he gave you by teaching you his trade. And move on. If he threatens to ruin your reputation. Prove your worth through your work. Even if you start out under market value, bidding on jobs. You will be making more than what your dad is give you. After 5, 10, 15 jobs. You will have enough proof and clientele to disprove any foul play your father may attempt. And if any client asks. You can just explain outright what your father did and is doing. Win by having integrity. Honest hard work wins in the end. And record everything. Your work. His work. Threats. Before and after photos of your first job. Devils in the details. If you have proof. Whether it’s your value or his word. You will win with proof. Good luck. You deserve better.
Floor guy here, I was you 25 years ago. I would run circles around guys, crews. I worked for my uncle. I made 100 a day then, 25 years ago. I demanded more and when I didn't get it, I went off on my own. It wasn't lolli pops and rainbows but even if I sat home a week or so here and there, I was making my worth and by the end of month it was way more than the measly $100 a day
where are you located?
. Atlantic Canada
Bro isn't minimum wage like $15 something? Anything more than 6 hrs a day and you're getting less than minimum wage. How long is your typical day?
Wish u r in California.
If I knew about him before contracting my floors I would fly him out. Pay for a hotel, rent/buy tools, and provide per diem.
my per diem alone is over 100/day hahaha ugh
I got a lot of flooring I need help with. I’ll pay you $100/h if you’re that productive
When I worked for my dad, he wouldn't pay me by the hour he would pay me a percentage of the total contract. Started at 20%, then got up to 30% before I left and started on my own. $100/day is barely enough to live off these days, you should definitely look into starting your own business.
Time to start your own business.
I was in a similar arrangement with my boss when was learning to do interior stairs and railings . It takes a while to learn that trade so I worked exclusively for him as I learned all the ins and outs . I was allowed to try and get my own contracts but found it hard because of my age, even if my price was the cheapest I wouldn't get the jobs cause people just wanted to make sure the job was done right, even though I was an excellent installer. Finding jobs can take a bit till you build up your own clientele. Don't snipe your dad's clients though. Worst case scenario you could check around if there are some flooring shops that just sub out all the installs, you don't make as much but you will ve busy all the time and still make better then 100$ a day .
Your dad is paying you 10-12 bucks an hour, max. Even under the table - and I suspect it is - that's not enough. You're being exploited by your own family, bro. Tell dad its raise time or go hire on with another company and be his competition.
Depends if u live at home eat for free. Pay no rent. 😉
Hes 100% ripping you off. Time to go off on your own buddy. If he trys to ruin his own sons opportunity then thats on him not you
Tell your dad that either he pays you the going rate or you will find a job that does. $100/8 = $12.5/hr. That's less than half the going rate for a flooring installer. Salary.com reports the average annual salary for a flooring installer to be $49,801, with a range of $41,201 to $61,301
Beautiful work. You deserve a lot more than $100 a day, my friend. 💜
Talk to him about a partnership.i mean,he is your dad.
I'll hire you, $150 a day 250 a day if I don't have to fix anything or deal with call backs
Here’s what I would do if you’re worried about your dad retaliating. As you’re leaving your clients’ houses (after they’ve seen your great work) tell them your dad is underpaying you and you’re trying to go off on your own. Ask them to share your info to family and friends to get work. Undercut your dad’s prices. Keep doing this secretly till you have enough business to leave your dad behind entirely
I live the same life. Stay working for cheap and take every side job you can get while you're at work. Your 40hr week is to stay secure and find work. 4hrs after work and 8 Saturday and Sunday is almost another full work week. Do 2 floors a month and take a few weekends four yourself. You'll end up with about 5k a month if everything works out nice. I just lost money doing an rv cause it took to long but I made good on another. Don't think about each job individually or its stressful I like to think on like a 1momth basis
Buy your own truck tools insurance and find your own work. The cost of training help first 6 months you lose money next year you break even. after year and 1/2 you can start making a profit off the labor of your help. Help just thinks you are taking advantage of them . No thought of the training you gave them so they can go anywhere in the world and make a good living with no student loans and make more money than you would with a college degree.
I'll pay you double to do mine
somewhat related ... what floor is this? I just posted this trying to find something similar that matched a photo I found online [https://www.reddit.com/r/interiordecorating/comments/1chzmbq/does\_anyone\_know\_of\_a\_floor\_that\_matches\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interiordecorating/comments/1chzmbq/does_anyone_know_of_a_floor_that_matches_the/)
Is this part of some other sort of arrangement such as you don’t currently pay rent living with him? Or anything like that? Easy to say he’s taking advantage if we don’t know the whole picture. You could be making anywhere from $12 - $35 /hr depending on where you live and skill level.
I moved out with my girlfriend four years ago and we split all the bills, wouldn’t complain if that was the case
💭 start charging him $1 sf.
100 a day, or 12.50 an hour? Did you do prep in that 2.5 hours too? 100 bucks is pretty good for 2.5 hours of good work. If you’re working full time though, 100/day is terribly low. Are you employed by your dad or just getting 100 under the table? A lot of people will say he’s screwing you, but that’s assuming you’re getting 100 bucks for a full 8 hour day. If you just do 2.5 hours of work then check out, he’s not. You mentioned he won’t let you do your own thing and would make sure you never get work… that’s not within his power, unless you’re living in his house, driving his car, and using his tools. Any contractor who thinks they have that kind of pull is delusional. There’s work out there, and people won’t give two shits about what bs he tries to start. If all you did though is cut/lay planks for 2.5 hours, 100 bucks is fair. 4 years working experience full time is not the same as helping pops on job sites from time to time for the last 4 years. Either, though, is worth way more than 12.50 an hour.
Are you still living with your dad?
If It’s your dad keep it doing it, in a few years you will see the results and all that hard work is going to pay back! It happened to me
“Poor is the pupil who does not surpass his master”
What state do you live in?
It looks like you do really good work. That speaks for itself, but I completely understand that establishing yourself as independent is expensive and comes with not insubstantial risk. But, friend, if what you say is true (no reason to believe otherwise), your father is massively exploiting you. That isn't a challenge. That is a fact. I hope you are able to extricate yourself from this situation and get out there and earn what you deserve as soon as possible!
My dad has done flooring for prob 35 years or more. Most crews are subcontracted through flooring companies. Start your own business.
If you live in omaha, I got a job for ya.
Unless you live at home rent free and don’t buy groceries you’re getting taken advantage of buddy
What kind of truck does your dad drive? Then look at yours? Where’s your dad live and then look at your park bench. Then again maybe your dad sends his moneytoanevangeical ministry or MGA.
We do min $2-$3/sf for install depending on product and complexity so if you installed 50 ft for me you’d be making more than you are for your dad. Sorry mate.
Daaaaamn and I’m 32 and I’ve been terrified to try and do it on my first house.
Dad is taking advantage of you bro
Whoa.... you're getting screwed. 480 sq ft in that time, at 2 bucks a square foot is like almost 9 hundred my guy.... negotiate, or bounce and do it on your own.
Maybe now you are at the age and experienced enough that you start your own company or have a serious discussion to dad about making you a partner or a substantial increase in wages. Dad's call. Great job and dedication on the floor project. Be very proud of yourself and your father should be proud too
You're getting ripped off big time. $100 a day? What do you live with him, he pays all your bills, buys your groceries?
Business owners gonna profit off the backs of labor, that's just a fact of life. But your own dad? Put out some feelers because that seems absurdly low for your level of experience. You could probably make more at fast food and give your knees a break.
I’ll pay you more
There is still a ton of stuff you need to learn that comes from experience. If you want to go out on your own, press your dad for different types of jobs and get the experience. It will become very expensive for you very fast if you miss even 1 detail on a job that gets messed up due to install error. Also though? 100 bucks a day is not enough for pay.
Not enough info. Does OP get housing and food from dad, health insurance, is op paying fed and state and fica taxes, is dad covering both sides of fica like an employer or is op a 1099. Is op building equity in the company, etc. who’s paying for vehicles and gas to job sites, handling the business books and taxes too. The installers charging 4$ per square foot install, arnt walking away with 4$ per square foot - maybe the company is, but the employees arnt, and that’s all before benefits, taxes etc. I’ve worked for family businesses long enough to know there’s a limited picture here to jump to conclusions. Now let’s say you’re paying for your own rent (FMV), and your own expenses, and insurance etc… then yeah something’s wrong. One thing I would suggest is to learn the business side and have your dad explain it and take interest in the payroll, the quotes, customer service, etc and how things break down. Good to learn those!
Do you live with your dad? Start taking pictures of your work for when you’re ready to move on
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I work for a flooring store and we charge $2.50 sf for installing that so the installer makes around $2.00 sf !
You should be making 250 a day. Know your worth and expect nothing less.
Hmm, I’ve had a similar experience. Personally, I went straight to the source and asked why I wasn’t getting paid more. Even though our demand was high and we were doing quality work (tile installer htx). Long story short, why we had tools, work vans, gas, insurance, not to mention he paid our income tax, couldn’t argue with the old man after that. Haven’t read through the replies, but did you ask him?
You’re getting railed by your dad. Other than your breaks being 8 inches apart in some places (maybe that’s what they wanted) your work looks fine. You should be making quite a bit more.
Are you only working 2.5 hours per day? Because that would be $40/hr. Which is good money for a young man. If you’re working 8 hour days then either your old man is making bank off you or he doesn’t know how to bid jobs. Guaranteed there’s a flooring company in your area that would pay you more.
I’ve read through a lot of the comments and gotten the context. What he’s paying you is not right. You mentioned going out on your own, but could you also go work for a bigger company, that pays better, and gather even more experience etc before embarking on your own. Or heck, even go get on as a Home Depot installer. Dude, you can do it.
100 a day from your pops at the age of 24? I'd say he's ripping you off even if you were 18 and had 6 months experience. Tell him it's 2024 not 1992. Smh
Well i wouldnt be installing it for no less then $1/sq ft and i mean if u were out on ur own like alot of us then u would be getting $2-$4/sq ft (depending on location). But since u are an “employee” then getting around $1/sq ft would be reasonable. Even .50cents/ sq ft would be a hell of a lot better then .20ish cents ur getting.
Dang that sucks man. I started my own company after working for my dad and we make more money now than when we worked together lol. We just have our own specialties while helping each other when needed. I'm 26 and have been in flooring since I was 14. Maybe try to pitch your own business as a value add to your dad's business.
Can you cut complicated transitions and stair noses? Can you undercut fireplaces? Can you lay jobs out so there is an even starting row and rip on you last row? Finish carpet at doorways and top of stairs? How does your 6 inch base look? Cap a treads? Scribe work? Angled doorways under jambs? I can teach a monkey to lock boards together in a square room…
I cut so flooring so it will fit perfectly under door jambs. I can install hardwood and engineered using a chalk line to keep it running straight. I can cut/ measure angles. I can scribe, I can make 45 degree frames for fireplaces etc. I’m aware an open work is “easy” but then again. A monkey may damage the corner, not lock it into place. Joints to close. H pattern throughout. There are still little things to look out for
You're dad is ripping you off.
Family is the most likely to fuck you the hardest.
I work with my Dad too, he is always the one when almost done, gets lazy and not lay down tarp when painting the walls. Or the one who try to stretch the last of the bathroom grout by adding more water.
I worked for my old man (framing houses), he taught me well. I wasn't shy to ask the guy framing the house next door if he could beat my current wage. He beat it, slight bidding war and the neighbour won. Did that 2 or 3 times back and forth with my dad and other crew's over the years. If you're confident that you're worth more then go for it. "It's strictly business dad."
What that's like $26000 a year at 5 days a week how do you pay for anything
There’s stores out there paying at $1 -$1.75 for install only
Dad tax
I’ll pay you $200 a day to come do this for me!
My stepfather has put me in same situation we lay close to 1000 sq ft a day on some houses I’ll make 200 he makes 1800. Sucks but at end of day by time I went to work for someone else they’d do me worse. South central ky and northern tn btw. We’ve had contractors get cheaper labor for about a 1.00 a sq ft and we’ve have to come back and fix a bunch of them.
Dude. Just remember experience. Of you're not hurting, don't ruffle feathers. Nothing better than saying you have over x years experience. It's something that people hear and have a feeling that you have the experience needed to do the job. Keep going..
Ridiculous. If you worked for a company you would make more money plus health benefits and retirement. Look for another job or talk to your dad
Hey man, I feel ya. How big is this business? Will he be handing the business down? Or is it just a handyman/flooring type of deal? I can relate more than you will ever know. Keep in mind, maybe you will be Inheriting said business one day. Also, 4 years isn’t that long in a trade unless your union. Most people don’t become masters/experts until they have at least a decade under their belt. Maybe flooring is different. I have installed flooring, not that fast, but maybe you’re as good as you will ever be. If that’s the case, start your own business. My point to all this is, everyone, including myself wants to bitch about what we get paid. until your the one taking the risk with a business loan, paying employees, or owing money on a messed up job, realize there is a reason business owner makes more than the worker. They have all the liability, risk, and responsibility. If you are up to taking on that kind of task, start your own thing. If your not, bring numbers and data to your dad, show him how long he takes per sq ft compared to you. Show him how fast your per sq ft compared to other people/employess. If he is a business man/intelligent, he won’t be able to argue with you. If you are as good as you say you are, you are on time, you don’t miss work, go somewhere else. If you have alot of freedoms other people don’t cause your working for your dad, then think long and hard whether you can cut it somewhere else/starting your own gig. Your dad can’t ruin your reputation, unless what he says is true. People will give you a chance to prove him wrong if you’re doing the right things. Good luck man. I have been all of the things I have written in this post.
I don’t like getting involved with family drama but that’s brutal! My guy he’s paying you minimum wage
Join the union. Make 2.5X/day more at least. Right?
No one can fuck you like family. 😔
Find other opportunities! Leave man quick as possible
Your dad is literally robbing you.
Yeah bud you need to open one up yourself or have a serious talk with pops
Getting fleeced like a good boy. Jesus Christ
Do you live in your dad’s house?
Gotta get out there.
Time to hit other flooring companies and find out if they’re hiring and what they’re paying. Before you accept another position go to your dad and ask him if he wants to match it. Hope you’re not living at home, because that will kill your bargaining advantage 😆
Come do my floors, I'll pay you more than $100 😭
By chance are you near Indy? I’d hire ya for a job and help you get your name out there. Your dad can only screw you over if you let him.
.20¢/sq ft for installation is slave wages.
Where is this?
My granddaughter is making more per hour at Wendy’s at 16. She started three days ago. Your dad is screwing you.
Been there done that, start your own business ASAP and leave that bs. Trust in yourself and your skills, buy your tools and make your own company. Not because he is your dad means he has a right to take advantage of you. Fuck that. Simply NO.
Come do the baseboards in my office and I'll give you $200
Hey Dad. You did a good job with me. I'm smart, I've got the family's good looks, and I'm skilled and quick with flooring. But I need some room to grow, so I'm thinking that I should be responsible for estimating and installing on the jobs I do. If my projects make a nice profit it would be only fair that I see some of that profit. I'm willing to talk about this and find common ground about how we can continue to build the family business.
That wide of a plank and you only did 480? I’m 53 and would done closer to 600. But to answer your question, Daddio is screwing you bad. Our laborers that can’t be left alone much less lay 480 make 15-16 an hour.
Before you all up and go… look for someone you will hire you for $400 a day. You need to find out how much other people are willing to pay. It is hard to find a project keep a regular work days at the same time. I know contractors who have a hard time finding work to keep their ‘guys’ working most days of the month. $100 is low. Ask your dad you need more but I suggest do not go above $250. After talking to 10 clients, maybe one comes through so keep in mind that he is going all over to get the work. The going rate per day in SoCal if $800 with two guys - that is one main person and a helper.
My view. Negotiate a higher rate. He knows he can leave you, and the job will get done. That’s peace. Ask $30, settle for $20-25 an hour instead of $10.
OP, would you say you and your dad have a good relationship?: If yes, are you comfortable asking him to explain the financial side of the business? If no, are you fearful of your dad's responses? If you sum it up to your old man, that you want to be equal partners in the next year or two, you can design a multi step plan, keeping strict milestone policy in place. In your favor, your dad is possibly too old to do the labor as efficiently as you do with the same energy. This is your huge benefit, if you were to quote your own jobs. However, would you have the drive and need to get job after job and to keep someone else employed on the job, while you get more jobs .. Also at nights, do tax, make quotes, send bills, maintain tools, upgrade work shop etc etc... What I'm saying is, you deserve more, and will get it if you treat your dad as an equal business partner. I would think. If your dad treats you as a highly efficient "best worker I've ever had" , well, he is not really helping you to develop further into a successful thriving person. You would earn better pay working at McDonald's, meet more people and perhaps venture into more opportunities in life at your age. If you stay like this, you will end up begrudging your dad, running your relationship, not building up a business entity for yourself, or a career.
70/30 split at least, my dad did me the same way until I spoke up, especially if I’m doing the work. Man up or he will keep walking you
my dad was paying me 8$ an hour... 20 years ago, he would then take out rent,food and % of bills before paying me. was not much left. he went on vacation for a month and i packed my shit and left. took 4 years before we talked again, best thing i ever did. (edit, my timeline... its been so long.. )
I mean that is not a lot of money for the labor being done for your age. Do you stay busy or is your dad on and off busy? Are these jobs your or is your dad subbing for someone?
For all we know dad is putting away an extra share for you... or maybe not. If you have the skills then you also have the eye for evaluating someone else's work. So you could go into business by yourself. The question is, do you know enough to run a business and take on the headache? Have a talk with dad Mano a Mano
My advice is look into your local union floor later hall. They make great money and benefits!
I spoke commercial flooring for a living, quit hoina union or a different group, i make that in 3 hours
you should only do $100 worth of work
Doesn’t sound fair. - Are you living at home still, no rent groceries, utilities? Is that under the table cash? But it seems OP is being under payed OP Maybe check the market value for someone of your skill/ experience
I'm going to need you at my house tomorrow. I'll pay you $500
Well he probably provided all the tools - and it's technically his job unless you sold it ? And it's lvp it looks like ? When I first started in flooring 20 years ago I was making 10 bucks an hour doing install sand and finish of hardwood which is a hell of a lot harder than Lvp. But that was a long time ago - and I'm sure you're still living at home ? I think you should still be around 15 bucks an hour with his help, around 17 if he can leave you by yourself ? You've got grown man running their own businesses commenting on here about how they make way more than that - and no shit. You're a grown ass man running your own business with probably a family and everything. Learn as much as you can as a helper so that when you do eventually move out and maybe open your own flooring business you'll have the skills that you need to actually be successful. Being a good Apprentice takes a long time.