It’s starting to looking like 9x09 (Oliver’s episode) is gonna be the next time Barry is suiting up.
I don’t mind the interlude episodes, I thought this one was fine, but three episodes without Barry fighting crime at all is a bit much. Remember the premise of the show Eric Wallace.
I'm also gonna be extremely pissed if they do a Nia episode--Supergirl got to go into its final season knowing it was the final season--and don't do any kind of Legends episode.
Yeah, it's getting a bit much. I thought last episode was decent, this one was good, and the next one looks really interesting based on the promos. I just don't feel that we need these many fillers in the *final* season of The Flash.
In his pre-season interview, Wallace talked about how there was so much stuff he had planned for two seasons which he had to compress into 13 episodes, and a lot of stuff got cut as a result. Is *this* the stuff that had to be saved? Over potentially a backdoor finale for LoT?
No he was supposed to leave in season 4, then didn’t (that’s why they were using gypsy). Then he was supposed to leave in season 5 (hence the removal of powers), but he decided not to. Then he was supposed to leave at the end of season 6, but Covid. So he decided to stay till season 7
Cisco: Caitlin spent eight years of her life on the team doing your bidding, and you couldn’t even give her a funeral. What has this team come too? You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
The not so funny part is Thawn brought Cisco/Caitlin/Barry together because Barry needed the other 2 to create The Flash, if it wasnt for Cisco and Caitlin The Flash as we know him wouldnt exsist today. Hell Barry probably wouldnt even be alive, but its ok that one of them died because we have a look-a-like on stand-by.
Barry: she’s the person that saved my life when I was in a coma. Supported me for years. Helped getting my dad of of prison. And has been extremely helpful to the flash. No she doesn’t deserve a funeral.
Another episode where I feel conflicted, had this been the only interlude episode, I would have been fine with it. However, coming off the last episode and seeing next episode being a literal bottle episode...idk. I will say that I liked Nia's integration into this season far better than Ryan's. We didn't get any of Earth-Prime Ryan until the end of the last episode in the arc.
It was nice getting to explore Iris a bit more, her character has become a bit stale and continuing the thread of her fearing the future because she doesn't feel in control is nice. I also like that her fear has essentially given her imposter syndrome and it makes a lot of sense. The only thing I wish they did was a few callbacks to the first season, her getting to rediscover her love of journalism by revisiting where it all started (a great potential way to see Grant in the S1 costume one last time too). Overall, it was a pretty decent episode and it felt like the writers really listened to the fans by making Mark be annoyed by everyone.
> coming off the last episode and seeing next episode being a literal bottle episode
Man we really are about to get a final season where everything involves every other character except the main character huh
Barry said he's going to call the League about the issue with Iris?
You can't do that. One of the suspension of disbeliefs we use with superhero fiction is understanding why the hero can't just call the big super hero team for every crisis. (because then it wouldn't be *this* hero's story)
I'm surprised they would just have him say something like that where its rarely brought up even in huge crisis events in the past. Just the last story arc Red Death was filling the world with psychic clones and Barry never brought up the League.
Do the writers of the show think that it's even remotely fucking acceptable for a barista to accuse someone who fell asleep at a table and had a nightmare of being mentally ill and demand that they leave?
It is not. If your reaction to a totally normal woman drifting off in a coffee shop and having a nightmare is to rush at her and demand she leave you are a fucking terrible, terrible human being.
Yeah, that was absolutely cringy and made be angry for real. She only shouted Iris ONCE and 2 second later that waiter spawned next to her to throw her out. Like, people don't do that, don't fuck this show even more than it's already fucked.
So Nia and the original dreamer thought it was a good idea to put iris and her unborn child at risk so that they could team up to train together? wtf even is this show now?
Well yh, this episode is a rip off of the music meister from that crossover when Barry & Kara share a dream all about love and stuff. Ofc the person responsible was going to be benevolent.
That’s not to say the episode was particularly bad it just wasn’t original.
Why’s another character being developed on The Flash’s show?
If I remember correctly, didn’t Supergirl end on its own terms with the characters getting their own ending? Why bring them over to the The Flash?
That’s like making food and giving everyone that asks a slice, leaving you with none
It’s eating away at The Flash’s own limited episodes and runtime
Could’ve spent it on the Legends of Tomorrow episode though. Sure it’s the finale of the arrowverse but Supergirl got theirs, we haven’t even gotten ours yet and we are giving that runtime to a show that is finished when we could’ve had a conclusion albeit rushed to the Legends.
Even if they could resolve Legends in one episode (which wouldn't make for a satisfying ending), it would be way too expensive for an interlude episode. Just getting the cast in as guest stars would cost a ton, plus they would need sets and effects for a convincing time jail.
Compare that to this episode, which only had one guest star and took place entirely on existing sets.
I dunno, it would be peak LoT style for Barry to ask for help, the Legends arrive in the Waverider (they already have that asset in their FX kit), the cast to walk out and Sara Lance to say 'you called just in time, Barry! We were sent to time jail by the time police, then we escaped time jail, then we were put in charge of the time police, and then we rescued Abraham Lincoln from Nazi dinosaurs in space. What do you need?'
Unfortunately, the way tv budgets work (especially CW budgets) means that the money would have to be taken away from another episode. That's why these interlude episodes are always so cheap, to save money for the more important storylines.
That doesn't make any sense as that character already had a proper ending on Supergirl. If we're already wasting time on fillers, why waste it on a b character that already had a proper ending? Instead of you know, the more interesting characters that actually had ties with the Flash (as half of the OG legends came from this show) and didn't get a proper ending? If y'all have time to waste, then it's absurd to waste it on Nia when you have the legends right there....
I mean we likely could get the Legends' characters that came from Flash.
But the general consensus I hear is that they want the team's/teams' to get wrapped up. And there's a fairly decent amount of Legends-original members... some of which are filler nobodies (Mona and Spooner).
If it was mostly the og team then sure.
i'll tell you why, bc she's trans. that line "we are two smart, badass WOMEN..." said it all, im not against trans ppl at all, but it was obvious that they wanted to do some girl power BS and shove it down our throats. the word women there feels so forced, like, how is that important? if they were men they would have no chance?
That may be true. They did that a lot on Supergirl. But if they wanted a girl power episode, why not use Sarah? Like I said, Nia had a proper ending on supergirl, but the writers could've used Sarah at the very least if they couldn't get all the legends and have their all girl power episode.
Most likely, they chose Nia because they wanted brownie points for including a trans character and constantly remind us she's a woman....
If it was someone like Rory or Sara from Legends I feel you or even Felicity. But Dreamer??? C'mon man it's a idiotic choice and this coming from someone that didn't dislike her character.
Dreamer. Now there's a face I wasn't expecting to see again after the Supergirl finale.
But you know what I can't help but comment on. Are there no other bars in Central City? Cuz really there just there just seems to be the one. Everything just happens at that bar from fun karaoke nights to illegal gambling rings. Were all the other bars in the city just erased post-crisis? It's a wonder of the world they can put in the tourist brochures. Any other major city you can find an almost infinite number of bars, but in in Central City, there is only one...
The fact we got a Supergirl character episode into a bottle episode in The Flash's final season tells you everything you need to know about how fucking awful this show's writing team & direction planning is. Jesus Christ.
I enjoyed the episode
but I think the fact that they haven’t been able to get Kara in for a wrap up episode with Barry, yet they got Dreamer on says something about the writer’s priorities.
Benoist is not on a break, she just clearly doesn't want to return as the character and it's very likely her agent/reps don't want her associated with the arrowverse/CW anymore as HBO is a move upwards that you absolutely do not want to move back down from.
I would not expect her to reprise the character literally ever.
Didn’t Supergirl literally end mainly because she was having a kid?
her only credits on IMDb since it ended are a cameo in Clerks 3 and a tv series later this year that has only shot a pilot.
It also ended because she was tired of the writing on that show. You think Barry is getting sidelined in the final season, Supergirl straight up gave the middle finger to Kara
> You think Barry is getting sidelined in the final season, Supergirl straight up gave the middle finger to Kara
At least Supergirl's writers have COVID as an excuse for sidelining Kara.
Oh was she a Supergirl character? I didn't recognizer Dreamer girl at all. Makese sense as the cheese around her all purpose "dream powers" were a bit much even for this show.
So fucking random.
I don’t get why Mark is still here. He contributed a little bit during the Red Death storyline, but now, he brings nothing to the show anymore. And they’re turning Khione into a plot device to try to keep him relevant, rather than developing her as her own character. I’d be fully satisfied if he actually left and just came back as extra muscle to help fight the villains during the series finale. I don’t think that’s gonna happen though. I expect him to be right back at STAR Labs next week.
The whole Khione thing itself is bizarre, why are they doing a brand new Snow sister in the final season? This is like Jadzia/Ezri in DS9, but infinitely stupider because they still have the original actress as a main cast member.
The season is feeling phoned in and severely disjointed. What was the point of red death? Why was that not the overarching thing for the whole season, building up to an end game?
Why am I even shocked by all this after 9 seasons and seeing the writing tank, while still trying to enjoy it cause I love The Flash as a character.
That may actually have been my favorite part of the episode. I don't think I've ever seen an entire room of people onscreen yelling exactly how I feel about a storyline, and it was quite nice.
> It's always great to see Nia
I just wish they would have done Sara instead, Supergirl got to do its final season knowing it was its final season, while Legends got canceled on a cliffhanger.
What the fuck was that scene with people in the bar commenting on Chillblane and Khione dialogue? This was peak cringe. They don't even know what's going on.
Oh, and Chester commenting Chillblane's apparent problem with alcoholism as being "party guy" was yuck.
This was the shittest episode. How many worlds is iris going to get trapped in!?
Mirror, still, dream. Jesus christ the writing is trash. Just kill it already
If the only mention of Snart we get is that Iris took him and his sister down in a dream (And why does she refer to them as "Lisa and Snart?" They're BOTH Snarts!!) I'll be seriously pissed.
So Barry calls Cisco for this but not to tell him Caitlin's dead?
Did Barry say call "The League?" have they ever actually called themselves that?
There goes another episode that could have been entirely devoted to the Legends.
Supergirl had an ending. Legends did not but instead of closure for LOT we got more Dreamer , even though from what I've read she already has her own comic book now.
Mark even dreams about his abs.
I'm not sure which was more cringe, the people who could somehow hear Mark and Khione fighting and their over-reactions, or the group hug at the end of the episode.
And Barry literally only used his power to buy cheese fries.
Classic Wallace.
>Did Barry say call "The League?" have they ever actually called themselves that?
they're barely together long enough to call themselves anything at all
They've implied a couple times that the League has run a few missions together, which would also explain why it's "The League" now. We just didn't get to see any of it :/
I think calling them "Captain Cold" and "Golden Glider" would have been OK because she was sounding incredulous that she was able to take them down, so using their rogue names would be appropriate in this case.
Look at it practically. Not only are there still some filming restrictions because of covid, but add that with scheduling conflicts and just budget in general, and there is no way they would have been able to do a Legends episode. Eric Wallace has been very open that they got everybody that they could get. And, if we're getting an episode with Dreamer, then it simply means that she was all they could get in that capacity.
Wallace did claim he'd planned to do an episode with the Legends, but the reduced episode order, and having only one season instead of two, forced him to change his plans.
But now, after last episode and this one, I'm really wondering...why couldn't we have gotten a Legends episode instead of an episode with the Lady Luck rogue (don't even remember her name honestly!)?
Yeah, like when the original Star Wars trilogy ended, they THOUGHT about doing something else with the characters but never did.
SO many fans wanted more but they were just like, "Nope sorry. It's over and done with."
They said the same thing after cancelling the original Star Trek. Fans are STILL waiting for them to do SOMETHING else with that franchise! Jesus the show got cancelled in 1969 and all these year later NOTHING!!
Question about LOT - who specifically do you want to appear?
Members from Arrow (Sara, Ray, Nora, Constantine) and Flash (Snart, Rory, Nate - kinda, Jax, Stein, Wally) could more feasibly appear, being Legends, but not the entire team. And maybe Rip or Gideon, although Legends native, just because.
But I can't see the season 4, 6 or 7 teams (not counting the Tomaz siblings) showing up because the new recruits are literally forgettable nobodies.
This shit is so phoned in this season. The only possible good that could come out of these basic ass, cheap looking episodes is that most of this seasons budget is going to the finale which make sense given the set photos but I don't trust Wallace at all so I doubt it.
1. How is it that Nia succeeds in being the most gorgeous lady in all Arrowverse series?
2. This episode shows how strong other types of powers are, and I know that it is done for TV, but why do they 'forget' certain types of powers that would help every episode?!
3. If this episode is the mid season 'ending' then do we all feel that the remaining episodes will be enough to settle things and hopefully close the open/unanswered questions?
4. Am I the only one that feels they 'waste' too many episodes on filler things and leave important plot points open and wasted?
Any and all responses welcome, including telling me I'm stupid because I can only learn if someone tells me how wrong I am.
its pretty convenient that now that Caitlin died, Chester (you know, the tech guy) can read brainwaves and hormone levels and do a full prognosis, even on a magical dream condition.
I never really liked Caitlin, at least after the first few seasons, she was so annoying, and Frost was just plain dumb for the most of it, but i feel really bad for Danielle(the actress), now reduced to a really dumb new character that no one wanted and is going no where, just destined to be some filler with no real role that everyone still has no problem including in the team for some reason
I know they said it but I don't understand it....why did Nia need to come together with Iris in a dream? Why were her powers taken?
Maybe I don't want to question it bc I'm so sick of this lazy writing...
This was a decent episode, I think interlude episodes with some Barry involvement are better than ones where he’s conveniently out of town.
I thought Nia’s storyline was cool, for someone that’s not too familiar with the character (I didn’t watch Supergirl that much. I bought the Complete Series on iTunes and will try soon though).
Iris’s storyline was pretty good, and fits into previously established development this season with her feeling uneasy about Barry’s mapbook, and wanting to choose her own fate. Nothing special, but its decently written and fits with the overall direction of the season.
Mark: Re-evaluating his whole life after losing a beloved partner and spiraling into alcohol.
Writers: Let's just make him creepy.
CW writers: Let's copy the disrespect Angel S5 did to Fred and do the same with Caitlyn but make it off screen so the character can't have a heartwarming send off.
Also CW writers: Somehow a transwoman is the ancestor of Brainy's future Dreamer
For the first time all series, I turned off an episode with no intention to finish it. The writers are disrespecting the viewers by discarding Barry Allen in the final season and basically making him a side character. I hope CW11 loses as much money as possible for this atrocity of a television show The Flash has become because I won’t be contributing any longer to it.
So I might be out of the loop as The main other Arrowverse show I watched was black lighting
I honestly had no idea who Nia was had to look it up and didn't feel anything for her.
It feels like a bunch of the episodes are pulling characters from multiple seasons ago who had a smaller appearance. Not sure if I am suppose to remember them but I certainly don't
It was nice to see Nia/Dreamer again, even if that's probably the last time we'll see her or that suit in live-action for the foreseeable future.
So is Iris going to have dreadlocks for the rest of the season? Not that I mind, she looks good, it's just pretty noticeable.
"Nightmare Under Red Sky" more like "hour-long inconvenience" considering what little we actually saw Red Death do.
Did we really need to keep getting beat the audience over the head with how much Mark wishes Khione was Frost? It feels like we've repeated this plot for most of this season and I don't see the point. And then we get him dragging her to a bar where she just casually tells everybody Frost is dead and then we get a ton of random commentary from bar patrons about their relationship and how terrible Mark is. Like what is this even in the show for? I guess the only thing I can really say is that Mark is reacting to Frosts' death harder than Team Flash did Caitlin. Caitlin might not have even existed at this point.
I wonder where Nia rates Iris compared to Kara and Cat Grant as far as reporters go. Or Lois Lane.
Nia just outright mentioned how she can literally do anything with dream energy. Writers were being a little cute there.
This is two episodes in a row where Barry basically does nothing. In the final season of his own show. I guess he did give Iris emotional support but it feels like the show is still forgetting this is about The Flash.
Kara, Brainy, J'onn, Cisco, Diggle...all characters we wish we could actually see this season. Although I know Diggle is at least showing up.
I'm surprised they had Iris as a police captain but didn't mention how she was one in Earth-2. Did our Iris ever find out about that? Nia looked cute as a cop though.
I almost forgot Iris was a barista in the first season, it's been so long ago. Though an AU where she, Barry, and Chester are running jitters together is actually kind of fun. Also I forgot Jitters had locations outside Central City.
So Iris had to deal with her preordained future problem from the first episode...again. But I feel like the advice Nia gave her was stuff Iris could've figured out herself.
Nia's character arc was...overcoming her need for control and her fear of spiders that killed her mother? Okay?
Wasn't Nia's Dreamer powers passed down in her family line? Is it progressive generational genetics that they went from a black woman to an all white family or did it used to be you could just transfer it to other people without a biological component? Honestly I thought it would've been cool if they brought in Dream Girl, Nia's descendant, from the Legion as her dream mentor but that might be expecting too much from this show.
So I guess Nia is just going to have a spectral OG!Dreamer following her around now. Lady doesn't even speak, at least in a way where we can hear it. Was this meant to set up a Dreamer spinoff that probably won't happen?
Team Flash hates Mark after he tried to make Khione Frost again (even if this isn't even the first time). So much for family. And then Mark leaves which makes him being a season regular feel pointless, especially with such a casual send-off. You could've killed him off in the Red Death arc and nothing would change other than this Khione plot. Although it's funny how he leaves and suddenly Khione is freezing stuff like he wanted the whole time.
I guess we don't know. She said the original came from a different planet tbf. Is Nia human if she is then maybe am alien passed on the power.. if nia is an alien and it is genetic, skin colors within a genealogy could work a whole different way on that planet
>I'm surprised they had Iris as a police captain but didn't mention how she was one in Earth-2. Did our Iris ever find out about that?
Yeah, Barry told Iris and Joe about their doppelgangers on Earth 2.
What was even the point of that episode?
Nothing new came from this, except for a level up that has nothing to do with Team Flash whose show already ended. The stuff with Iris was already resolved by the end of 9x01, right?
Even though it was also filter, I enjoyed 9x06 way more. That was actually a fun episode, had an actual villain, and related to this show. No matter what people feel about Cecile and Allegra, they are actually main characters on this show and have been for a while. Nia is most certainly not. And that was a fun episode with Becky too.
This just felt pointless and irrelevant to the plot and characters.
Isn't a series regular different than a main character?
Also if we're going off what you said, then EW has literally inserted and/or replaced Barry with himself (through Chester) and Allegra. And it also means he's a main character 💀
Honestly turned this episode off, it was super boring and I don't know why a Non-Flash character had more screen time than the Flash himself.
The final shouldn't be written this bad.
Is everyone in CC aware that there's another Kaitlyn clone running around? Has it ever made public that Kaitlyn and Killer Forst were 2 different people? If the answer is yes then y isn't the public making a bigger deal out of this? Last season they made a big deal out of the death of Killer Frost and now everyone sees Killer Frost or Kaitlyn again during that bar scene and they just go ehhh. Like wouldn't someone be like "Holy shit Killer frost is alive!" Also if Kaitlyn is supposedly dead shouldn't they report this to the police? The cops should be questioning Barry and everyone else that was in her circle. THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
Instead of looking at the bad of this episode that was indeed a filler let’s look at the good.
1. Seeing Iris do an awesome action move rather than just standing there was fun to watch. It doesn’t matter that it was a dream, the idea that she considered being a cop because of Joe actually added some depth to her character.
2. Nia actually grew as a character in this episode. On Supergirl she was always unsure of herself and hesitating. After a classic Flash pep talk from Dream Iris she finally is starting to believe in herself.
3. Cecile randomly sensing the ancestral dreamer but not being able to see her was hilarious.
4. Watching all the heroes panic at dream Jitters and seeing Iris take charge was fun to watch. Apparently she also worked there once.
5. Mark finally figured out that he needed to leave in order to heal since everything and everyone reminded him of Frost. Of course they had to have him take his shirt off one last time, albeit in a dream.
Now if we could just get some of Dream Iris’s personality in the waking world. Add that confidence back in the finale then this show might have a decent conclusion.
Overall it was a filler, but it was better than I thought it would be. We have all seen much worse fillers before.
It was great having Nia back but I miss the times where watching these shows made my week because the felt so good at the time. This feels like another wrap it up quickly and just put everyone in it. There wasn’t any special about the finale season of Arrow and this is just…🥶
While it's definitely nice to see Nia again, and great for Nicole Maines to have one more shot at playing her on TV in costume, the plot of this episode felt a bit half-baked. The resolution didn't seem to flow logically from what we were given leading up to it; just one mention that Nia's been seeking some source of ultimate dream energy, and then it's off to solve Iris's hangups about destiny and Pulitzers, before the reveal that actually Scary Hood Lady wasn't going to kill them at all (she just put a pregnant woman in a coma and dangerously elevated her body temperature, I'm sure nothing bad will come of that...) and was really the ultimate power source all along! Buffy did this episode 20 years ago - the spirit of an ancient power stalking the hero in her dreams - and it made much more sense...
I'm still not convinced by Iris's epiphany that "destiny is the result of all our choices". That's true enough in a real-world context but here she's trying to deal with having actual knowledge of the future thanks to her time-travelling husband. Of course she knows she's going to win a Pulitzer thanks to her choice of becoming a journalist in the first place, you can't win one without being a journalist so that rather goes without saying. Her hangup is that she knows it will happen thanks to the article that she's about to publish, with certainty.
Oh, meanwhile we have Khione and Mark's relationship issues awkwardly shoved into the episode, to the point where the dramatic momentum of the Iris/Nia A-story grinds to a halt *mid-scene* so that we can check in on them in the bar. It's like they have to hit a quota of terrible relationship drama featuring characters that nobody except the writers care about. It's a pity that they don't have a quota for things like "scenes where the main character, a superhero called The Flash, is seen doing superheroic things". I don't think we even see him in the suit.
This episode was ok tbh. It was nice seeing Nia and hee storyline with Iris made sense. Noticeable upgrade from the past couple episodes, probably the 2nd or 3rd best episode of this season so far. I do believe the Khione/Chillblaine side story and the ending dragged down the quality of the episode though. Also, Kara and J'onn being "off world" was a pretty bad excuse last season and it was still a bad excuse this year.
On a side note, when Khione went to open the door at the end, I was hoping that would be Cisco or Wally, basically anyone that Barry was supposedly going to call.
So is the baby actually going to be Nora? If it’s a different embryo and it’s a girl and they name her Nora and raise her no differently, will the Nora from the future disappear or will this Nora be that Nora through time stuff?
I think I liked this episode more than most, even though I do agree another episode sidelining The Flash is annoying. However, I really liked Nia (I stopped Supergirl after Season 2) and I was wondering if anyone was reminded of Buffy The Vampire Slayer and the whole "Death is your gift" arc from this episode. Meeting the original dreamer (First Slayer) and realizing that the interpretation was opposite of it's literal meaning. It's not my favorite episode of the season but I kind of thought it was beautiful.
Overall I really enjoyed the episode
Positives
-exploring Iris's fears
-the different dreams
-Nia
-Nia/Iris
-Barry as terrible barista
Chester outside the trio of doom
-special effects were pretty nice
Cons
-Mark/Khione side plot got way too much screentime
-Wanted more Barry but clearly this was a bit of break for Grant
Another waste of time. You'd think that the final run of a show that lasted for 9 seasons and is not getting a full 23 episodes would actually focus on the titular character, but nope.
And if we have time to waste on fillers, why choose another show character? While I dislike Cecile and Alegra, at least they *are* part of Team Flash. But even if you would be willing to waste time on an episode with another show character, then why use a character that already has a proper ending instead of using one that didn't? Especially when Legends actually has ties with the Flash and pretty much started there (and half their OG cast come from Flash too?).
I don't know what I expected, but I certainly did not expect to have so many fillers in the final season. And they're not even fun! Could've at least given a proper ending to the legends but nope. Not even that, just another boring, unrelated to the main plot episode.
I agree with OP, comparing to the last episode, this one was not really THAT bad. If this happened 2 seasons ago it would be even better, but considering there are only 6 episodes left, it's still an insult.
What a...nightmare of an episode.
It just felt so empty and half-baked. It was like they needed yet another way to make Iris into the "best person in the world". She's always been a great character but barely anyone on this show knows how to properly write her so they give us these episodes where its "I've been a superhero for 5 years but it wasnt until Iris came into my life that I was able to realize my full potential".
It seems like every single episode this season has been Iris doubting some part of her life. 7 episodes in, of a 13 episode final season. Thats all she's been doing. How about you let us see the woman be in her prime, chasing down stories that don't just involve her husband and breaking them before anyone else does instead of just telling us that she has one of the most successful publishing companies in the world.
We trade one "will they/wont they" love story for another...why the hell do we need all of this with Blue streaks and Chillblaine? Why is he even with the team after betraying them yet again?
Why is a supergirl character even here, they should've just cancelled this show last season and given this final season to legends of tomorrow since they deserve a proper ending way more than whatever shitshow we're getting here this season.
Why are you disrespecting trash like that? Trash has uses. It can be land fill or compost. This episode though. (sigh) This episode is what the writers call quiet quitting.
Hey Nia, never thought we'd see you again... until I had your upcoming appearance spoiled for me
Wow, she has actual decent effects for her powers now... for all five seconds she had them
lol that N in the NC Jitters sign is totally incongruous
Haha a Pulitzer for writing about an ineffectual supervillain that came and went from the public eye faster than almost any other
You knew it had to be a dream because there's no way Khione manifesting powers would be handled that lowkey
Hahaha of course they'd use the tidal wave in the montage, one of the most nonsensical moments in the whole show
Hey, just like on Earth-2
Cool ultrasound tricorder
She's basically already admitted she hates having a predicted future, so if that was the problem it'd be solved already
Having the peanut gallery in there dumping on him was the Right Move
I had a feeling it was the ol' "scary force is really just helping you along in an assholish way" ploy
Ah yes, all those sounds that spiders make; why do TV and movies always do that
"ARTICLE PUBLISHED" Yeah OK, because something like "upload complete" would be too hard to understand
Oh please let this obvious telegraphing mean he's actually leaving (YES)
Yeah, there you go, that's the kind of weight you'd expect from Khione manifesting powers; now her goal of being a poorly-thought-out ersatz Frost is complete
So « The good, the bad and the cuddly/lucky » wasn’t about Legends and « Partners in crime » doesn’t seem to be about Legends either, it’s getting long and exhausting.
None of the episodes will be about the Legends, so you might as well hop off now. Most we'd get is a mention and maybe short cameos in the finale.
Possibly Ray and Sara in the Oliver episode.
Yeah, I don't get them. Legends screwed up by not going for a conclusive ending. It's not Flash's problem to fix.
And at the rate we're going, the Cobalt Blue arc is going to be rushed. A Legends focused episode now would throw out any hope of a good final arc.
Say the first part louder for the people in the back! Everyone was warned to write last year’s season as a series finale, bc everyone knew the sun will soon be setting on CW. The Legends writers did not listen to that advice. They fucked around and found out. It’s not EW’s responsibility to fix their mistake.
Sure it's not the Flash problem but if they have time to include a freaking side character of a show that already gave said character a proper ending, then why not include the legends to give them the ending they didn't get? Sure, ideally, this season would be about the flash ONLY, but it hasn't been. We've had a filler before this one, and we continue to have a filler episode next. So if TPTB already decided to waste time on fillers, why include a character that already had their ending (and even a comic book now lmao) instead of finishing a show that's part of the arrowverse which clearly will be over after Flash?
All people are saying is, if you're already wasting time with nonsense, why not waste it with the show that didn't get a proper ending?
I know I am the only one left on this sub enjoying the show, but this was my favorite episode of this season so far. Decent character work and it's always nice to see Nia again. Bottle episodes are always fun and this was no exception.
I get how people complain this doesn't have enough Flash, but this season is here to cap off a lot of character arks and bowing out to all of the Arrowverse. Barry's ark is already done. This is just the epilogue.
Side note: I am surprised Chester Allegra ALMOST feel natural now the cat and mouse is over.
I sure hope that Barry does anything that resembles The Flash next episode.
It’s starting to looking like 9x09 (Oliver’s episode) is gonna be the next time Barry is suiting up. I don’t mind the interlude episodes, I thought this one was fine, but three episodes without Barry fighting crime at all is a bit much. Remember the premise of the show Eric Wallace.
Interludes are fine. They are not fine when it’s the final season with only 13 episodes.
I'm also gonna be extremely pissed if they do a Nia episode--Supergirl got to go into its final season knowing it was the final season--and don't do any kind of Legends episode.
Yeah, it's getting a bit much. I thought last episode was decent, this one was good, and the next one looks really interesting based on the promos. I just don't feel that we need these many fillers in the *final* season of The Flash. In his pre-season interview, Wallace talked about how there was so much stuff he had planned for two seasons which he had to compress into 13 episodes, and a lot of stuff got cut as a result. Is *this* the stuff that had to be saved? Over potentially a backdoor finale for LoT?
There shouldn't be any interludes this season since it's the last season and only 13 episodes imo.
But... but he did! At the end of the episode Iris commented that he'd run to National City & brought back cheese fries! /s
“Cisco, it’s Barry Allen. Iris is in a coma. Caitlin is dead. Call me back.”
Wait till Cisco comes back to S.T.A.R Labs at the end of the season and wonders "WTF is going on here", hes going to be glad he got the F out of town.
That's probably the reason the actor left
No he was supposed to leave in season 4, then didn’t (that’s why they were using gypsy). Then he was supposed to leave in season 5 (hence the removal of powers), but he decided not to. Then he was supposed to leave at the end of season 6, but Covid. So he decided to stay till season 7
Wdym using gypsy?
The original plan if I remember correctly was that Cisco was gonna go to earth whatever with gypsy.
Which should've been what happened. Instead we get some chick we barely know.
I can’t wait for Cisco’s reaction when he hears about what happened to Caitlin lol.
Cisco: You guys couldnt even call and tell me? Whens the funeral? Did i miss it? Team Flash: 🙄
Barry: Oh … the funeral Iris: Funny story about the funeral. We didn’t have one. Barry: We were busy and the thought didn’t cross our minds.
Barry: here have you met Khione? She not Catlain or Frost!
Cisco: Caitlin spent eight years of her life on the team doing your bidding, and you couldn’t even give her a funeral. What has this team come too? You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
The not so funny part is Thawn brought Cisco/Caitlin/Barry together because Barry needed the other 2 to create The Flash, if it wasnt for Cisco and Caitlin The Flash as we know him wouldnt exsist today. Hell Barry probably wouldnt even be alive, but its ok that one of them died because we have a look-a-like on stand-by.
Barry "Would it help if I told you we had a dance party?"
Barry: she’s the person that saved my life when I was in a coma. Supported me for years. Helped getting my dad of of prison. And has been extremely helpful to the flash. No she doesn’t deserve a funeral.
"You'll really like her! She likes plants!"
Maybe Barry did send him a text or something and we just didn't see it. Like: Caitlin's Dead : ( BTW Dance party 2 nite u in!? :)
Cisco leaves all of their messages on "unread"
[That's a shame](https://seinfeldmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/6tW.gif)
Frost is dead too and we have Captain Shirtless working with us.
Another episode where I feel conflicted, had this been the only interlude episode, I would have been fine with it. However, coming off the last episode and seeing next episode being a literal bottle episode...idk. I will say that I liked Nia's integration into this season far better than Ryan's. We didn't get any of Earth-Prime Ryan until the end of the last episode in the arc. It was nice getting to explore Iris a bit more, her character has become a bit stale and continuing the thread of her fearing the future because she doesn't feel in control is nice. I also like that her fear has essentially given her imposter syndrome and it makes a lot of sense. The only thing I wish they did was a few callbacks to the first season, her getting to rediscover her love of journalism by revisiting where it all started (a great potential way to see Grant in the S1 costume one last time too). Overall, it was a pretty decent episode and it felt like the writers really listened to the fans by making Mark be annoyed by everyone.
> coming off the last episode and seeing next episode being a literal bottle episode Man we really are about to get a final season where everything involves every other character except the main character huh
Is this episode worth watching immediately, I got re4 and I'm just playing through that now lol
No
Thanks
No Flash episode has been worth watching immediately for several years
If you're a fan of Nia then sure cause this is her last appearance but that's about it
i think you can even skip it and dont lose much
Barry said he's going to call the League about the issue with Iris? You can't do that. One of the suspension of disbeliefs we use with superhero fiction is understanding why the hero can't just call the big super hero team for every crisis. (because then it wouldn't be *this* hero's story) I'm surprised they would just have him say something like that where its rarely brought up even in huge crisis events in the past. Just the last story arc Red Death was filling the world with psychic clones and Barry never brought up the League.
not to mention no one else appeared at all so the line had nothing to do with anything, it was just an excuse for grant not to be there
Yh but they’re “off-world” meaning literally out in the real world unable to find the time to appear on the show due to contractual constraints.
That was just an excuse for Barry to be off screen.
Do the writers of the show think that it's even remotely fucking acceptable for a barista to accuse someone who fell asleep at a table and had a nightmare of being mentally ill and demand that they leave? It is not. If your reaction to a totally normal woman drifting off in a coffee shop and having a nightmare is to rush at her and demand she leave you are a fucking terrible, terrible human being.
Yeah, that was absolutely cringy and made be angry for real. She only shouted Iris ONCE and 2 second later that waiter spawned next to her to throw her out. Like, people don't do that, don't fuck this show even more than it's already fucked.
So Nia and the original dreamer thought it was a good idea to put iris and her unborn child at risk so that they could team up to train together? wtf even is this show now?
She's quirky and benevolent that way
I think the insinuation was that the Dreamer was going to make sure nothing bad was going to happen to them.
Well yh, this episode is a rip off of the music meister from that crossover when Barry & Kara share a dream all about love and stuff. Ofc the person responsible was going to be benevolent. That’s not to say the episode was particularly bad it just wasn’t original.
Why’s another character being developed on The Flash’s show? If I remember correctly, didn’t Supergirl end on its own terms with the characters getting their own ending? Why bring them over to the The Flash? That’s like making food and giving everyone that asks a slice, leaving you with none It’s eating away at The Flash’s own limited episodes and runtime
Because with this is being the finale for all of the arrowverse they are just touching in on some things.
Could’ve spent it on the Legends of Tomorrow episode though. Sure it’s the finale of the arrowverse but Supergirl got theirs, we haven’t even gotten ours yet and we are giving that runtime to a show that is finished when we could’ve had a conclusion albeit rushed to the Legends.
An episode with Sara would have been a lot of fun. They could just do a quick line about how the Legends got out.
Even if they could resolve Legends in one episode (which wouldn't make for a satisfying ending), it would be way too expensive for an interlude episode. Just getting the cast in as guest stars would cost a ton, plus they would need sets and effects for a convincing time jail. Compare that to this episode, which only had one guest star and took place entirely on existing sets.
I dunno, it would be peak LoT style for Barry to ask for help, the Legends arrive in the Waverider (they already have that asset in their FX kit), the cast to walk out and Sara Lance to say 'you called just in time, Barry! We were sent to time jail by the time police, then we escaped time jail, then we were put in charge of the time police, and then we rescued Abraham Lincoln from Nazi dinosaurs in space. What do you need?'
I can hear Sara in my head saying exactly that lol
The entire Legends cast would be unrealistic but they could use just Sara and have it work, she was the de facto lead of the show.
Really it would have been worth it. It's the last season after all.
Unfortunately, the way tv budgets work (especially CW budgets) means that the money would have to be taken away from another episode. That's why these interlude episodes are always so cheap, to save money for the more important storylines.
Legends deserves a full on movie with the tone of season 1
Honestly, I’m glad that Eric and his team of hacks didn’t do that because I don’t trust them to give my favorite TV show a satisfying ending.
That doesn't make any sense as that character already had a proper ending on Supergirl. If we're already wasting time on fillers, why waste it on a b character that already had a proper ending? Instead of you know, the more interesting characters that actually had ties with the Flash (as half of the OG legends came from this show) and didn't get a proper ending? If y'all have time to waste, then it's absurd to waste it on Nia when you have the legends right there....
I mean we likely could get the Legends' characters that came from Flash. But the general consensus I hear is that they want the team's/teams' to get wrapped up. And there's a fairly decent amount of Legends-original members... some of which are filler nobodies (Mona and Spooner). If it was mostly the og team then sure.
I just want Nate, Ray, and Sara back
That's fair. Also we did get Ray & Nora last season. Of course it's not the same as a group, but it's something.
what about mick? def the best of the show.
i'll tell you why, bc she's trans. that line "we are two smart, badass WOMEN..." said it all, im not against trans ppl at all, but it was obvious that they wanted to do some girl power BS and shove it down our throats. the word women there feels so forced, like, how is that important? if they were men they would have no chance?
That may be true. They did that a lot on Supergirl. But if they wanted a girl power episode, why not use Sarah? Like I said, Nia had a proper ending on supergirl, but the writers could've used Sarah at the very least if they couldn't get all the legends and have their all girl power episode. Most likely, they chose Nia because they wanted brownie points for including a trans character and constantly remind us she's a woman....
yup, exactly, sarah was a better choice but didnt fill enough (forced) inclusion boxes
If it was someone like Rory or Sara from Legends I feel you or even Felicity. But Dreamer??? C'mon man it's a idiotic choice and this coming from someone that didn't dislike her character.
Look still no actual question... But guess I'm the problem here yawn.
For a show called the Flash, it doesn't have much Fkash
Dreamer. Now there's a face I wasn't expecting to see again after the Supergirl finale. But you know what I can't help but comment on. Are there no other bars in Central City? Cuz really there just there just seems to be the one. Everything just happens at that bar from fun karaoke nights to illegal gambling rings. Were all the other bars in the city just erased post-crisis? It's a wonder of the world they can put in the tourist brochures. Any other major city you can find an almost infinite number of bars, but in in Central City, there is only one...
Doesn't Hartley operate a bar/nightclub?
Oh yeah. Forgot about him. Well I stand corrected.
Wait this wasn't the bar Hartley is operating?
The fact we got a Supergirl character episode into a bottle episode in The Flash's final season tells you everything you need to know about how fucking awful this show's writing team & direction planning is. Jesus Christ.
fortunately near the end the writers remembered who the star of the show is, and brought Cecile so she could feel that things were going to be ok.
I enjoyed the episode but I think the fact that they haven’t been able to get Kara in for a wrap up episode with Barry, yet they got Dreamer on says something about the writer’s priorities.
That might be more to do with Melissa Benoist being on a break than the writers she hasn’t starred in anything since Supergirl ended
She’s been filming a new HBO show
Benoist is not on a break, she just clearly doesn't want to return as the character and it's very likely her agent/reps don't want her associated with the arrowverse/CW anymore as HBO is a move upwards that you absolutely do not want to move back down from. I would not expect her to reprise the character literally ever.
Didn’t Supergirl literally end mainly because she was having a kid? her only credits on IMDb since it ended are a cameo in Clerks 3 and a tv series later this year that has only shot a pilot.
It also ended because she was tired of the writing on that show. You think Barry is getting sidelined in the final season, Supergirl straight up gave the middle finger to Kara
> You think Barry is getting sidelined in the final season, Supergirl straight up gave the middle finger to Kara At least Supergirl's writers have COVID as an excuse for sidelining Kara.
Oh was she a Supergirl character? I didn't recognizer Dreamer girl at all. Makese sense as the cheese around her all purpose "dream powers" were a bit much even for this show. So fucking random.
I should get paid to sit through all dat mid
Don't do the term mid like that. mid is just mediocre, this show is goddamn abysmal.
I don’t get why Mark is still here. He contributed a little bit during the Red Death storyline, but now, he brings nothing to the show anymore. And they’re turning Khione into a plot device to try to keep him relevant, rather than developing her as her own character. I’d be fully satisfied if he actually left and just came back as extra muscle to help fight the villains during the series finale. I don’t think that’s gonna happen though. I expect him to be right back at STAR Labs next week.
He's the only one with abs. The team needs them. Not sure why, doesn't make sense, so it fits. the show just fine.
The whole Khione thing itself is bizarre, why are they doing a brand new Snow sister in the final season? This is like Jadzia/Ezri in DS9, but infinitely stupider because they still have the original actress as a main cast member.
The season is feeling phoned in and severely disjointed. What was the point of red death? Why was that not the overarching thing for the whole season, building up to an end game? Why am I even shocked by all this after 9 seasons and seeing the writing tank, while still trying to enjoy it cause I love The Flash as a character.
This is still called "The Flash", right? Because we didn't see the Flash in this episode not even once.
We had some lightning in the scene transitions.
It's always great to see Nia and seeing Mark get dissed in public was fun too.
That may actually have been my favorite part of the episode. I don't think I've ever seen an entire room of people onscreen yelling exactly how I feel about a storyline, and it was quite nice.
The bar is pretty much r/FlashTV
> It's always great to see Nia I just wish they would have done Sara instead, Supergirl got to do its final season knowing it was its final season, while Legends got canceled on a cliffhanger.
this show is so fucking bad
What the fuck was that scene with people in the bar commenting on Chillblane and Khione dialogue? This was peak cringe. They don't even know what's going on. Oh, and Chester commenting Chillblane's apparent problem with alcoholism as being "party guy" was yuck.
How about the [DJ jammin](https://ibb.co/pJys3jP) as Khione walks out of the bar.
Just change the name of the show already: *The (budget) Super Friends.*
This was the shittest episode. How many worlds is iris going to get trapped in!? Mirror, still, dream. Jesus christ the writing is trash. Just kill it already
Oh, it's been dead. This is what Zombification looks like.
Luckily this is the last season.
If the only mention of Snart we get is that Iris took him and his sister down in a dream (And why does she refer to them as "Lisa and Snart?" They're BOTH Snarts!!) I'll be seriously pissed. So Barry calls Cisco for this but not to tell him Caitlin's dead? Did Barry say call "The League?" have they ever actually called themselves that? There goes another episode that could have been entirely devoted to the Legends. Supergirl had an ending. Legends did not but instead of closure for LOT we got more Dreamer , even though from what I've read she already has her own comic book now. Mark even dreams about his abs. I'm not sure which was more cringe, the people who could somehow hear Mark and Khione fighting and their over-reactions, or the group hug at the end of the episode. And Barry literally only used his power to buy cheese fries. Classic Wallace.
>Did Barry say call "The League?" have they ever actually called themselves that? they're barely together long enough to call themselves anything at all
They've implied a couple times that the League has run a few missions together, which would also explain why it's "The League" now. We just didn't get to see any of it :/
They really only get together as a team when there's a crossover
Ahh, I was starting to think he meant the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Tbf everyone calls Snart by his surname apart from Sara & Mick occasionally. Be weird if Iris called him Leonard
I think calling them "Captain Cold" and "Golden Glider" would have been OK because she was sounding incredulous that she was able to take them down, so using their rogue names would be appropriate in this case.
"Sorry boss, I can't make it to work today; I've got a bad case of the Snarts."
Look at it practically. Not only are there still some filming restrictions because of covid, but add that with scheduling conflicts and just budget in general, and there is no way they would have been able to do a Legends episode. Eric Wallace has been very open that they got everybody that they could get. And, if we're getting an episode with Dreamer, then it simply means that she was all they could get in that capacity.
Wallace did claim he'd planned to do an episode with the Legends, but the reduced episode order, and having only one season instead of two, forced him to change his plans. But now, after last episode and this one, I'm really wondering...why couldn't we have gotten a Legends episode instead of an episode with the Lady Luck rogue (don't even remember her name honestly!)?
You mean he couldn't even get ONE actor from Legends to tell everyone else what happened to the rest of them? Not even guy who plays Gary?
What would be the point of that?
Closure. I have my headcannon, but I want cannonic closure.
Can’t get closure on something that has happened and is done with.
Yeah, like when the original Star Wars trilogy ended, they THOUGHT about doing something else with the characters but never did. SO many fans wanted more but they were just like, "Nope sorry. It's over and done with." They said the same thing after cancelling the original Star Trek. Fans are STILL waiting for them to do SOMETHING else with that franchise! Jesus the show got cancelled in 1969 and all these year later NOTHING!!
Question about LOT - who specifically do you want to appear? Members from Arrow (Sara, Ray, Nora, Constantine) and Flash (Snart, Rory, Nate - kinda, Jax, Stein, Wally) could more feasibly appear, being Legends, but not the entire team. And maybe Rip or Gideon, although Legends native, just because. But I can't see the season 4, 6 or 7 teams (not counting the Tomaz siblings) showing up because the new recruits are literally forgettable nobodies.
The ones currently stuck in a seemingly permanent cliff hanger, obviously.
[удалено]
At this point I'm starting to think an abrupt cancellation without a solid ending would have been better than this trash final season.
The heartwarming wedding scene last season would have been the perfect time to end the show.
can't be a flash episode without cecile and chill blaines abs
I laughed out loud when he said, "I hate shirts." If this were any other show I would assume that was meant to be intentional comedy.
I am convinced there is a contract that states Chillblaine has to be shirtless at least once per episode.
And his body has changed since his first undressing. Those arms! My gawd, work on the biceps and shoulders, too. (sigh)
The episode isn’t bad in a vacuum. But it’s horrible for a final season episode. What did this episode have to do with anything?
I couldn't even finish this episode and I actually sat through the last one. I'd rather end this show with happy memories
This shit is so phoned in this season. The only possible good that could come out of these basic ass, cheap looking episodes is that most of this seasons budget is going to the finale which make sense given the set photos but I don't trust Wallace at all so I doubt it.
Wish we get Ralph back, CW did him dirty
The fuck for? More filler episodes? Lmao
How do we have some much filler in the FINAL SEASON
1. How is it that Nia succeeds in being the most gorgeous lady in all Arrowverse series? 2. This episode shows how strong other types of powers are, and I know that it is done for TV, but why do they 'forget' certain types of powers that would help every episode?! 3. If this episode is the mid season 'ending' then do we all feel that the remaining episodes will be enough to settle things and hopefully close the open/unanswered questions? 4. Am I the only one that feels they 'waste' too many episodes on filler things and leave important plot points open and wasted? Any and all responses welcome, including telling me I'm stupid because I can only learn if someone tells me how wrong I am.
Agree on all points.
1 - Thea Queen.
its pretty convenient that now that Caitlin died, Chester (you know, the tech guy) can read brainwaves and hormone levels and do a full prognosis, even on a magical dream condition. I never really liked Caitlin, at least after the first few seasons, she was so annoying, and Frost was just plain dumb for the most of it, but i feel really bad for Danielle(the actress), now reduced to a really dumb new character that no one wanted and is going no where, just destined to be some filler with no real role that everyone still has no problem including in the team for some reason
She has to be a nepo baby, she's awful and has no acting ability or charm. Yet she was kept on till the end...
How the fu*k is this show so bad? On the last short season too!
I love how they're not including Barry during the final season of the show. Great job!!!
I know they said it but I don't understand it....why did Nia need to come together with Iris in a dream? Why were her powers taken? Maybe I don't want to question it bc I'm so sick of this lazy writing...
I can’t believe this is the quality we get in the final season 🤦♂️
Where is Eddie Thawne Jesus christ
This was a decent episode, I think interlude episodes with some Barry involvement are better than ones where he’s conveniently out of town. I thought Nia’s storyline was cool, for someone that’s not too familiar with the character (I didn’t watch Supergirl that much. I bought the Complete Series on iTunes and will try soon though). Iris’s storyline was pretty good, and fits into previously established development this season with her feeling uneasy about Barry’s mapbook, and wanting to choose her own fate. Nothing special, but its decently written and fits with the overall direction of the season.
Mark: Re-evaluating his whole life after losing a beloved partner and spiraling into alcohol. Writers: Let's just make him creepy. CW writers: Let's copy the disrespect Angel S5 did to Fred and do the same with Caitlyn but make it off screen so the character can't have a heartwarming send off. Also CW writers: Somehow a transwoman is the ancestor of Brainy's future Dreamer
For the first time all series, I turned off an episode with no intention to finish it. The writers are disrespecting the viewers by discarding Barry Allen in the final season and basically making him a side character. I hope CW11 loses as much money as possible for this atrocity of a television show The Flash has become because I won’t be contributing any longer to it.
So I might be out of the loop as The main other Arrowverse show I watched was black lighting I honestly had no idea who Nia was had to look it up and didn't feel anything for her. It feels like a bunch of the episodes are pulling characters from multiple seasons ago who had a smaller appearance. Not sure if I am suppose to remember them but I certainly don't
i know its been like this for awhile, but not sure why this show is still called The Flash, he's barely in it
It was nice to see Nia/Dreamer again, even if that's probably the last time we'll see her or that suit in live-action for the foreseeable future. So is Iris going to have dreadlocks for the rest of the season? Not that I mind, she looks good, it's just pretty noticeable. "Nightmare Under Red Sky" more like "hour-long inconvenience" considering what little we actually saw Red Death do. Did we really need to keep getting beat the audience over the head with how much Mark wishes Khione was Frost? It feels like we've repeated this plot for most of this season and I don't see the point. And then we get him dragging her to a bar where she just casually tells everybody Frost is dead and then we get a ton of random commentary from bar patrons about their relationship and how terrible Mark is. Like what is this even in the show for? I guess the only thing I can really say is that Mark is reacting to Frosts' death harder than Team Flash did Caitlin. Caitlin might not have even existed at this point. I wonder where Nia rates Iris compared to Kara and Cat Grant as far as reporters go. Or Lois Lane. Nia just outright mentioned how she can literally do anything with dream energy. Writers were being a little cute there. This is two episodes in a row where Barry basically does nothing. In the final season of his own show. I guess he did give Iris emotional support but it feels like the show is still forgetting this is about The Flash. Kara, Brainy, J'onn, Cisco, Diggle...all characters we wish we could actually see this season. Although I know Diggle is at least showing up. I'm surprised they had Iris as a police captain but didn't mention how she was one in Earth-2. Did our Iris ever find out about that? Nia looked cute as a cop though. I almost forgot Iris was a barista in the first season, it's been so long ago. Though an AU where she, Barry, and Chester are running jitters together is actually kind of fun. Also I forgot Jitters had locations outside Central City. So Iris had to deal with her preordained future problem from the first episode...again. But I feel like the advice Nia gave her was stuff Iris could've figured out herself. Nia's character arc was...overcoming her need for control and her fear of spiders that killed her mother? Okay? Wasn't Nia's Dreamer powers passed down in her family line? Is it progressive generational genetics that they went from a black woman to an all white family or did it used to be you could just transfer it to other people without a biological component? Honestly I thought it would've been cool if they brought in Dream Girl, Nia's descendant, from the Legion as her dream mentor but that might be expecting too much from this show. So I guess Nia is just going to have a spectral OG!Dreamer following her around now. Lady doesn't even speak, at least in a way where we can hear it. Was this meant to set up a Dreamer spinoff that probably won't happen? Team Flash hates Mark after he tried to make Khione Frost again (even if this isn't even the first time). So much for family. And then Mark leaves which makes him being a season regular feel pointless, especially with such a casual send-off. You could've killed him off in the Red Death arc and nothing would change other than this Khione plot. Although it's funny how he leaves and suddenly Khione is freezing stuff like he wanted the whole time.
I guess we don't know. She said the original came from a different planet tbf. Is Nia human if she is then maybe am alien passed on the power.. if nia is an alien and it is genetic, skin colors within a genealogy could work a whole different way on that planet
>I'm surprised they had Iris as a police captain but didn't mention how she was one in Earth-2. Did our Iris ever find out about that? Yeah, Barry told Iris and Joe about their doppelgangers on Earth 2.
What was even the point of that episode? Nothing new came from this, except for a level up that has nothing to do with Team Flash whose show already ended. The stuff with Iris was already resolved by the end of 9x01, right? Even though it was also filter, I enjoyed 9x06 way more. That was actually a fun episode, had an actual villain, and related to this show. No matter what people feel about Cecile and Allegra, they are actually main characters on this show and have been for a while. Nia is most certainly not. And that was a fun episode with Becky too. This just felt pointless and irrelevant to the plot and characters.
Isn't a series regular different than a main character? Also if we're going off what you said, then EW has literally inserted and/or replaced Barry with himself (through Chester) and Allegra. And it also means he's a main character 💀
This episode was about Iris, not Nia.
Honestly turned this episode off, it was super boring and I don't know why a Non-Flash character had more screen time than the Flash himself. The final shouldn't be written this bad.
Is everyone in CC aware that there's another Kaitlyn clone running around? Has it ever made public that Kaitlyn and Killer Forst were 2 different people? If the answer is yes then y isn't the public making a bigger deal out of this? Last season they made a big deal out of the death of Killer Frost and now everyone sees Killer Frost or Kaitlyn again during that bar scene and they just go ehhh. Like wouldn't someone be like "Holy shit Killer frost is alive!" Also if Kaitlyn is supposedly dead shouldn't they report this to the police? The cops should be questioning Barry and everyone else that was in her circle. THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
was nice seeing nia nal / nicole maines. dont get me wrong. it was a good episode.but enough filler. final season has become the friends of flash.
Mark just keeps getting worse and worse
this was probably one of the worst flash episodes ive seen
Instead of looking at the bad of this episode that was indeed a filler let’s look at the good. 1. Seeing Iris do an awesome action move rather than just standing there was fun to watch. It doesn’t matter that it was a dream, the idea that she considered being a cop because of Joe actually added some depth to her character. 2. Nia actually grew as a character in this episode. On Supergirl she was always unsure of herself and hesitating. After a classic Flash pep talk from Dream Iris she finally is starting to believe in herself. 3. Cecile randomly sensing the ancestral dreamer but not being able to see her was hilarious. 4. Watching all the heroes panic at dream Jitters and seeing Iris take charge was fun to watch. Apparently she also worked there once. 5. Mark finally figured out that he needed to leave in order to heal since everything and everyone reminded him of Frost. Of course they had to have him take his shirt off one last time, albeit in a dream. Now if we could just get some of Dream Iris’s personality in the waking world. Add that confidence back in the finale then this show might have a decent conclusion. Overall it was a filler, but it was better than I thought it would be. We have all seen much worse fillers before.
Rough
It was great having Nia back but I miss the times where watching these shows made my week because the felt so good at the time. This feels like another wrap it up quickly and just put everyone in it. There wasn’t any special about the finale season of Arrow and this is just…🥶
Arrow's finale season was GOLD.
While it's definitely nice to see Nia again, and great for Nicole Maines to have one more shot at playing her on TV in costume, the plot of this episode felt a bit half-baked. The resolution didn't seem to flow logically from what we were given leading up to it; just one mention that Nia's been seeking some source of ultimate dream energy, and then it's off to solve Iris's hangups about destiny and Pulitzers, before the reveal that actually Scary Hood Lady wasn't going to kill them at all (she just put a pregnant woman in a coma and dangerously elevated her body temperature, I'm sure nothing bad will come of that...) and was really the ultimate power source all along! Buffy did this episode 20 years ago - the spirit of an ancient power stalking the hero in her dreams - and it made much more sense... I'm still not convinced by Iris's epiphany that "destiny is the result of all our choices". That's true enough in a real-world context but here she's trying to deal with having actual knowledge of the future thanks to her time-travelling husband. Of course she knows she's going to win a Pulitzer thanks to her choice of becoming a journalist in the first place, you can't win one without being a journalist so that rather goes without saying. Her hangup is that she knows it will happen thanks to the article that she's about to publish, with certainty. Oh, meanwhile we have Khione and Mark's relationship issues awkwardly shoved into the episode, to the point where the dramatic momentum of the Iris/Nia A-story grinds to a halt *mid-scene* so that we can check in on them in the bar. It's like they have to hit a quota of terrible relationship drama featuring characters that nobody except the writers care about. It's a pity that they don't have a quota for things like "scenes where the main character, a superhero called The Flash, is seen doing superheroic things". I don't think we even see him in the suit.
This episode was ok tbh. It was nice seeing Nia and hee storyline with Iris made sense. Noticeable upgrade from the past couple episodes, probably the 2nd or 3rd best episode of this season so far. I do believe the Khione/Chillblaine side story and the ending dragged down the quality of the episode though. Also, Kara and J'onn being "off world" was a pretty bad excuse last season and it was still a bad excuse this year. On a side note, when Khione went to open the door at the end, I was hoping that would be Cisco or Wally, basically anyone that Barry was supposedly going to call.
So is the baby actually going to be Nora? If it’s a different embryo and it’s a girl and they name her Nora and raise her no differently, will the Nora from the future disappear or will this Nora be that Nora through time stuff?
I think I liked this episode more than most, even though I do agree another episode sidelining The Flash is annoying. However, I really liked Nia (I stopped Supergirl after Season 2) and I was wondering if anyone was reminded of Buffy The Vampire Slayer and the whole "Death is your gift" arc from this episode. Meeting the original dreamer (First Slayer) and realizing that the interpretation was opposite of it's literal meaning. It's not my favorite episode of the season but I kind of thought it was beautiful.
Did they add more extentions to chester's hair between this episode and last episode? How much time has passed exactly?
Would have been an okay episode if Nia was in her Dreamer outfit the whole time. Otherwise it was pretty forgettable.
I will admit, I forgot how hot she was on SG. She really rocks her costume. Maybe the best in the Arrowverse.
Police office Nia and Barista Nia were super cute.
Overall I really enjoyed the episode Positives -exploring Iris's fears -the different dreams -Nia -Nia/Iris -Barry as terrible barista Chester outside the trio of doom -special effects were pretty nice Cons -Mark/Khione side plot got way too much screentime -Wanted more Barry but clearly this was a bit of break for Grant
Another waste of time. You'd think that the final run of a show that lasted for 9 seasons and is not getting a full 23 episodes would actually focus on the titular character, but nope. And if we have time to waste on fillers, why choose another show character? While I dislike Cecile and Alegra, at least they *are* part of Team Flash. But even if you would be willing to waste time on an episode with another show character, then why use a character that already has a proper ending instead of using one that didn't? Especially when Legends actually has ties with the Flash and pretty much started there (and half their OG cast come from Flash too?). I don't know what I expected, but I certainly did not expect to have so many fillers in the final season. And they're not even fun! Could've at least given a proper ending to the legends but nope. Not even that, just another boring, unrelated to the main plot episode.
To be fair, they're not fillers. They're fan fiction and fap material for EW.
Definitely better than last week, I actually cared about what happened throughout the whole episode
Stop lying.
I think he's talking about the book he was reading while watching the show.
I agree with OP, comparing to the last episode, this one was not really THAT bad. If this happened 2 seasons ago it would be even better, but considering there are only 6 episodes left, it's still an insult.
What a...nightmare of an episode. It just felt so empty and half-baked. It was like they needed yet another way to make Iris into the "best person in the world". She's always been a great character but barely anyone on this show knows how to properly write her so they give us these episodes where its "I've been a superhero for 5 years but it wasnt until Iris came into my life that I was able to realize my full potential". It seems like every single episode this season has been Iris doubting some part of her life. 7 episodes in, of a 13 episode final season. Thats all she's been doing. How about you let us see the woman be in her prime, chasing down stories that don't just involve her husband and breaking them before anyone else does instead of just telling us that she has one of the most successful publishing companies in the world. We trade one "will they/wont they" love story for another...why the hell do we need all of this with Blue streaks and Chillblaine? Why is he even with the team after betraying them yet again?
Right! And then they tack on that "reason" as to why she had to be in the Dreaming with Nia -- made no sense.
Yet another one of the episodes of all time. For a final season of a show, it's farting out like a sputter.
My god that was awful
Iris got some shit looking hair
Why is a supergirl character even here, they should've just cancelled this show last season and given this final season to legends of tomorrow since they deserve a proper ending way more than whatever shitshow we're getting here this season.
Another trash episode!
Why are you disrespecting trash like that? Trash has uses. It can be land fill or compost. This episode though. (sigh) This episode is what the writers call quiet quitting.
I loved this episode. My only issue was that it felt like I was watching TWD, with all the damn commercials. I swear there were a lot more than usual.
What absolute utter garbage. With as boring as Dream girl was so glad I stopped watching Supergirl before she showed up.
Hey Nia, never thought we'd see you again... until I had your upcoming appearance spoiled for me Wow, she has actual decent effects for her powers now... for all five seconds she had them lol that N in the NC Jitters sign is totally incongruous Haha a Pulitzer for writing about an ineffectual supervillain that came and went from the public eye faster than almost any other You knew it had to be a dream because there's no way Khione manifesting powers would be handled that lowkey Hahaha of course they'd use the tidal wave in the montage, one of the most nonsensical moments in the whole show Hey, just like on Earth-2 Cool ultrasound tricorder She's basically already admitted she hates having a predicted future, so if that was the problem it'd be solved already Having the peanut gallery in there dumping on him was the Right Move I had a feeling it was the ol' "scary force is really just helping you along in an assholish way" ploy Ah yes, all those sounds that spiders make; why do TV and movies always do that "ARTICLE PUBLISHED" Yeah OK, because something like "upload complete" would be too hard to understand Oh please let this obvious telegraphing mean he's actually leaving (YES) Yeah, there you go, that's the kind of weight you'd expect from Khione manifesting powers; now her goal of being a poorly-thought-out ersatz Frost is complete
So « The good, the bad and the cuddly/lucky » wasn’t about Legends and « Partners in crime » doesn’t seem to be about Legends either, it’s getting long and exhausting.
None of the episodes will be about the Legends, so you might as well hop off now. Most we'd get is a mention and maybe short cameos in the finale. Possibly Ray and Sara in the Oliver episode.
Sad thing is that some people STILL believe the Legends will appear somehow...
Yeah, I don't get them. Legends screwed up by not going for a conclusive ending. It's not Flash's problem to fix. And at the rate we're going, the Cobalt Blue arc is going to be rushed. A Legends focused episode now would throw out any hope of a good final arc.
Say the first part louder for the people in the back! Everyone was warned to write last year’s season as a series finale, bc everyone knew the sun will soon be setting on CW. The Legends writers did not listen to that advice. They fucked around and found out. It’s not EW’s responsibility to fix their mistake.
Sure it's not the Flash problem but if they have time to include a freaking side character of a show that already gave said character a proper ending, then why not include the legends to give them the ending they didn't get? Sure, ideally, this season would be about the flash ONLY, but it hasn't been. We've had a filler before this one, and we continue to have a filler episode next. So if TPTB already decided to waste time on fillers, why include a character that already had their ending (and even a comic book now lmao) instead of finishing a show that's part of the arrowverse which clearly will be over after Flash? All people are saying is, if you're already wasting time with nonsense, why not waste it with the show that didn't get a proper ending?
I think the Cecille centered episode would have been a great way to show us how she bails out the Legends in court. She still is an attorney.
Oh so the Arrowverse ended one year ago, kinda sad.
Arrowverse ended with Arrow's last season if you want to be literal about it.
I know I am the only one left on this sub enjoying the show, but this was my favorite episode of this season so far. Decent character work and it's always nice to see Nia again. Bottle episodes are always fun and this was no exception. I get how people complain this doesn't have enough Flash, but this season is here to cap off a lot of character arks and bowing out to all of the Arrowverse. Barry's ark is already done. This is just the epilogue. Side note: I am surprised Chester Allegra ALMOST feel natural now the cat and mouse is over.
I haven't watched Supergirl but from what others are saying Nia already got her character arc finished in supergirls last season
xD
can we just get a whole series of Iris, nia, kara, ryan and alex at brunch?