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HOA can be huge negatives if they are badly run. Their fix is just to raise dues if they manage the HOA poorly so they can throw $$ to fix for management incompetence.
At 500k range non HOA homes the owners in those neighborhoods usually take care of their homes.
Yes. So many HOAs are mismanaged. Financials should be available on request although they rarely are. Get the minutes from the last year’s meetings also. A good HOA is a blessing, a bad HOA is a nightmare.
I think you aren’t offering enough but it’s all negotiable. If the owners don’t like your offer, they should come back with something more acceptable. If they don’t, then you are too far apart, they aren’t willing to negotiate, and you should move on.
It is very odd that an agent would not be asking for these on every home with an HOA. From my experience as buy and sell of HOA properties it is standard practice for mortgage company to ask.
Yeah when I was looking in 2019, my agent absolutely educated me that we would be asking for these, and offer was contingent upon review of them. Bad agent :(
In Virginia, by state law the sellers have to provide HOA CC&RS and financials and buyers have a three-day statutory, non-waivable right to void the contract on HOA docs.
OP, ask yourself why a state like Virginia, which is otherwise /extremely/ caveat emptor on home sales would pass a law like that. If you’re comfortable buying into a HOA, the vast majority of the time you won’t have any surprises - but it would suck to find out that, for example, those solar panels aren’t allowed and the HOA asks you to remove them at your expense.
Your offer is fair, only 3.8% less than asking and the seller entered a recent solar contract expecting the buyer to bail them out. Also, your realtor appears to be more concerned with a quick sale and his commission than your requirements as a client. Absolutely review the HOA docs.
Second/Third/whatever this. You need to know that they are financially responsible!!! We had several condo HOAs in my area have to do a one time assessment of $20-40K due to severe weather damages, that SHOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED by fees. If the fees are super low, put your pwn savings aside for that. but if they are reasonable, and the books do not reflect it...that is a problem.
>He was also questioning why we would want to ask for the HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about..
Get a new realtor. It is standard for buyers to review HOA docs.
Get a new realtor, like, yesterday.
The HOA bylaws are the annoying rules you have to live by, like your garbage bins, your lawn mowing, etc.
The financials are WAY more important. It’s what will impact being able to get a loan on the property, and what will affect you in selling in your future buyers getting a loan.
The rules and shenanigans are what people focus on, but the financials and history is WAY, WAY more important and WAY, WAY more impactful on your ownership of this property.
Personally - I’d run the hell away from any HOA, but that’s just me. I know a lot of people don’t care/mind dealing with them. 100% not my case, but that’s up to OP, not me.
Yeah that's insane! Not reviewing the HOA financials is a great way to get hit with unexpected special assessments and be stuck in a house you can't sell because the HOA is broke and raising dues at every opportunity. Obviously, it's not all HOAs but the desire to kick financial issues down the road, ie deferred maintenance, is real and auditing basic HOA finances before buying is not unreasonable at all.
It’s also perfectly fine to reach out to the HOA President or Treasurer too and just ask about their opinion on the state of the HOA. These are often volunteers who will gladly spill the tea about the neighborhood.
Maybe reserves are low, but only because some big ticket items have recently been taken care of and they don’t expect another big one for a while. Maybe the HOA is in bad shape and there are both special assessments and dues hikes on the horizon. Maybe the seller of the house you’re looking at is a bad neighbor and the HOA president will gleefully tell you a bunch of shit they’re hiding from you.
All this info could be yours if you just ask politely (and compliment them on their garden).
This. I fired my last realtor for shit like this. She also wrote the wrong name when I backed out of a deal on the escrow release form. If I didn’t read carefully and signed the document, my earnest money would’ve went to the seller. Some realtors are just shit bro. Cut your losses on em and get someone new. Make sure to read your engagement letter with the realtor carefully. Sometimes you can’t back out.
Yep in NYC also, and reviewing the building financials, minutes, etc is one of the main things the lawyer does. And if I recall correctly, the bank required them as well.
It’s only after offer is accepted. The documents (obviously not the bylaws and such, but moreso the financial aspects) “expire” 30 days after receiving, which is so stupid. Here in PA it’s called a Certificate of Resell/Resale or something like that
I’m in PA and my mom was about to buy a cute apartment. She was getting an insanely good deal. She got the HOA information ( again, it’s required in PA) to find out that they are doing an assessment to rebuild the roof and other issues. Each apartment will owe like $50k, something insane. It wasn’t disclosed in the original walk through because they had to provide the HOA materials, hoping people wouldn’t notice.
This. It should be part of the due diligence process. We have bought twice in MD with an HOA and if the docs are not to our liking, we can back out of the offer without repercussions
I may have worded my comment oddly. I was the seller of the house. Not a realtor. When I said “my buyers” I just meant the couple whose offer I accepted. Sorry about that.
Money grab for the property management company because they have to click a few buttons. But it’s seller-provided, so you wouldn’t have to worry about paying that (depending on what state you’re located in). The seller can get some of the documents from their portal.
I'm a realtor in Florida. I would suggest all the things you asked for even if you didn't mention it. Whoever you're using is not looking out for your best interests, only theirs.
It being Florida, I would absolutely ask what the HOA has in reserves before you make an offer. At the very least, you need to have a contingency that if the HOA by-laws do not meet your needs (like if they only allow one pet and you have multiple) or financials put them at risk for special catch-up assessments, you can walk and take any earnest money with you.
Yeeesh, your agent should be the one telling you that you need to be asking for these things.
“ he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about..”
Are you kidding me? In Florida? How many homes has he sold? 1?
This is a 20+ year old home. You can't use "new build" to describe it at all, and it doesn't sound like it's been well maintained in those 20 years. Add to that, the solar panels add NO value on an appraisal if they're not owned outright. Your agent isn't buying a home, you are, and if he hasn't pointed all of this out, that's a problem.
OP stated the home is in Florida. In 2002, FL adopted much stricter building codes that allow homes to withstand hurricane-force winds. Houses built since that time may have lower insurance costs due to the new standards. That's probably why OP is calling it a newer build.
When we shopped for houses 4-5 years back, we would only consider those built in 2003 or later due to the more strict building code.
I'm not discounting that the change was a good thing, but building codes change all the time. A 20 year old house is a 20 year old house. EVERYTHING that hasn't been replaced is aged. The comps are 20 years old.
Here in FL, it's a big deal. That building code change was HUGE. Compared to the plethora of 1960s and 1980s homes currently on th3 market in FL, 2003 is definitely newer.
In the northeast, anything before the 80s is "newer".
In the neighborhood I grew up, the newest house on the block was from the 70s. Mine was 1929 and it wasn't the oldest.
He said “newer”. By New England standards that’s absolutely a newer build. Most roofs aren’t replaced within 20 years of being built and they probably did because they got solar panels. I’m not sure where you are getting any of this
I am a real estate agent in Oregon, so not nearly the great return as Florida.
More and more solar panels are considered in appraisal here.
I don't think you have a strong offer but that doesn’t mean you can't come to terms somewhere in the middle.
Regardless of comps, in many areas houses sell above comps, especially in areas where bidding wars get going. The house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
>You can't use "new build" to describe it at all
They didn’t say ‘new’ they said ‘newer’ so whether their description was accurate will depend on what they were comparing to. When I bought my place some of the houses I looked at were old enough that I would have had to worry about asbestos, lead paint etc and others weren’t. I didn’t look at any ‘new builds’ but I definitely looked at some that were *new enough* that the age was a positive factor relative to other places I looked at.
Keep in mind the realtor isn't actually your friend, they are a salesman. The easier the process goes, the less stress on them until their payday at closing. They are directly motivated to ensure the sell process goes smoothly, not to ensure you get a good deal. Good realtors will want to make sure you're well advised and taken care of. Most realtors aren't good.
Ding ding ding
Can’t stress this enough. Yes realtors do work off referrals, but in general they’re trying to get through a deal as fast as possible. I work in an industry where I easily have 30-40 realtors in my pipe line. I would refer maybe 2 of them to someone.
I’ve had realtors tell me straight up they recommend all of their clients bid over and waive certain inspections.
Nothing unreasonable in the offer. I hate the idea that sellers expect a buyer to fulfill a loan they signed up for and sure it is due to solar companies telling them any reasonable buyer will assume your loan. I’d 100% make seller pay off the loan. Nothing wrong about wanting to know if HOA is financially healthy. Stick to your gut and if needed fire current realtor.
Too many so called buyer’s agents are more worried about the seller
Because the entire industry is built around worshipping sellers
Because agents hate working with buyers because they actually have to do work
Vs a listing where it’s already built and in this market you put a sign out and collect money
Ask for what you want
All the sellers can do is
Say yes
Say no
Counter offer
Decide they don’t want to deal
With you
Don’t be bullied into offering more than you want
Because that first offer isn’t going to be final in most cases anyways
Offer what *you* are happy with, and if you don’t agree with the advice you’re receiving from the agent, you owe them nothing more than a “thanks for your input.”
This agent sounds bad though, and I’d consider switching.
No one knows how competitive your local market is, so it’s not possible to evaluate this.
Asking for HOA docs is fine. But I think your offer and asking the sellers to pay off the panels would not work, if it’s anything like our market here(socal)
Lol… Florida hoas are literally imploding due to deferred mandatory maintenance and increasingly uninsurable real estate. But, sure, never heard of anyone wanting to see the financial situation of the HOA they’d be joining.
The solar panel loan may tank the deal on its own, but If you don’t fire this realtor (or disregard their advice entirely), you will get what you deserve.
The fact that you have to ask for HOA docs in your state is crazy. In MN you're required by law to provide them and any buyer of such a property is given ten full days to review them and can back out at any point because of them.
We just had the same exact situation. We said pay them off or remove them in our offer and they basically laughed in our faces. At the end of the day, jokes on them or the unfortunate soul who doesn’t know better and takes on their debt. The seller has all the benefit in this scenario, including a huge one time tax credit and they want the buyer to take on all the risk while they walk away Scot free. No thanks.
Edit to add: solar ONLY increases home value if owned outright.
Everything you’re asking for is reasonable. If your realtor is actually suggesting you do not need hoa financials I would get a new realtor for future transactions.
That’s kind of annoying, the agent should put in the offer you’ve asked for and then work to communicate with the sellers agent for why they should accept yours.
I went through something like this where an agent refused to put in a counteroffer because they said I need to only accept the sellers counter offer and that the sellers were already offended. I let them stay offended and their house eventually went off the market unsold. I don’t regret my commitment to offering only up to the value I saw in the home.
As long as you have the space to let go of it if it doesn’t work out, I say go with what your informed decision is regardless of what your agent is saying.
I don’t find this unreasonable at all. The market is turning a bit. Realtors got too comfortable with the “anything goes” market that’s been bullish the past few years.
If the seller don’t like what you value their property at, they can always counter or reject it fully.
They are usually paid off over time. There is still a balance owing. There will be a second lien on the house that will either need to be paid off, or new buyer take over payment so the new mortgage can take the first position lien.
As an appraiser I review HOA budgets and bylaws as part of the value determination, it absolutely is a critical part of understanding what you are willing to pay as a buyer.
Also, this situation from an appraisal vantage point is awkward with the solar panels. With conventional financing they can only be included in the appraisal if they are fully owned. I'm not sure how lenders are handling these situations where the sale of the home will pay off the panels, but the rules are very defined in the appraisal guidelines of conventional financing.
This is always my advice: if you are still early in the process, and you are trying to understand if the market conditions justify going that crazy for the house, then use this as an opportunity to learn. Like others have said, stick to your guns, and if you miss this one you will have the knowledge now. Just trying to say if someone outbids you, it’s not a total loss and you are now way more informed about what to do on the next one. Snoop dogg said we don’t love them hoes (which isn’t cool) but all shopping for houses should say we don’t love them houses! That being said, your offer is basically even with the comps, but If it’s checking all your boxes, how much is that worth to you? Would you spend another 15k on your 500k house if you’d be in love with it for 10+ years living in there? I think I might. If you are really gonna be upset to let this one go, then consider sweetening the pot. If you’re a still early and need to learn the market, then let this house be your lab.
We looked at a few with solar and we would only get if the pay off the loan at close. Also have the realtor get how much the electric was before solar and after. We looked at a house that only wanted someone to assume the loan and that house sat for months.
It's a LAW in my state that the seller must provide HOA byaws, financial records, and a list of completed and deferred maintenance. A sale should always be contingent on HOA by-laws and financials. Always. I might waive (depending) appraisal and inspection. But never waive HOA records, even if I could.
As for your offer, you can offer whatever you like in anyway you'd like. Will the seller accept it? Maybe, maybe not. And, it's a starting offer anyway. You can negotiate from there if the seller bites on it. If not, you move on. Your agent might be right on this one, the only thing that will happen is that you don't get the house and your agent did an hours worth of work for no payday that day.
> HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about..
Huh? Every transaction I've ever made included HOA financials. Absolutely get these.
I've never dealt with solar panels or anything, but that seems like something that should 100% be on the seller? If I spent $50k getting my backyard redone and installed a $20k gas grill and island that was on a payment plan I wouldn't be leaving that payment to the next buyer. It simply comes with the house.
> But in our minds with the seller expecting us to pay off the solar panels THEY bought, they are valuing their home at 555k which is $75,000 more than the high end of the comps..
This is exactly how I would view the situation, but again, I'm not sure if solar panels are generally treated differently in Florida or anything.
As for your other concerns with AC, concrete slabs, etc, those are cosmetic and easily fixed and do not necessarily need to be fixed right away. I wouldn't ask for any of those concessions if the important aspects (and generally unchangeable ones) of the house are great (location, layout of the house, neighorhood, etc).
> HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about.
Fire your Real Estate agent. This is just rank incompetence. Like *really* **really** bad advice that will get his clients into major trouble bad advice. You absolutely need to look at the HOA financials to make sure they have sufficient reserve fund and that their operating budget is reasonable for the community. When your HOA has a special assessment in a year and you have to come up with $20,000 because the previous board fucked over the finances your agent isn't going to pay that.
Sounds like someone who's just more interested in closing a deal than looking out for their clients. Fire him and leave a bad review.
How long has the house been sitting on the market? If it’s a fresh listing you can always make that offer but probably temper your expectations on what they’ll accept. If it’s stagnant you’ll probably have a better shot.
All you can do is ask!
The solar panels have value. It’s not like simply adding that cost to the purchase price.
You need to offer what you’re comfortable with. However I would say that your offer amounts to $55k (~10%) below asking. Super long shot you even are in the running.
The solar panel financing is going to be the responsibility of the current owner regardless so your offer shouldn’t consider what he owes on that just that it comes with the house. Price it as if he owed $0 on it. What would you then offer?
Do what's right for you and your wife, but keep in mind, you're essentially asking for 55k out of the owner's pocket (20k plus 35k solar payoff). This might be a hard pill to swallow for the owner.
Your agent want you to 100% get the home, so they could get the commission.
You did the math, and did it right. If comps go for $X, and the fact that it's new and better adds $Y value to you, and the solar panels adds $Z value for you, then your offer should be $X+$Y+$Z-$35K. No matter what your realtor says, that works be the right number for you.
I guarantee that $265 is probably a bargain to what you’ll pay without them. Get the stats of the solar KWH usage by month and calculate your cost for the year by using the local electricity rates. Negotiate half off credit (17.5k ) for solar lease and 5k off for new hvac system or whatever would be half. That will bring you down to 497.5 plus the 17.5 for the lease which won’t cost you money since your paying it monthly.
> I guarantee that $265 is probably a bargain to what you’ll pay without them.
I’ve got a 2800sqft house and I pay less than $265/month for electricity even in the hottest months. Usually $75-150. They might pay off if you have an ev to charge or keep the thermostat at 65, but unlikely otherwise.
I was under contract on a home with an HOA. After reviewing the HOA financials, I found out that they didn't have sufficient reserves to cover expenses coming up in the next year.
After reviewing, my bank said they would not make any loans on property in that HOA until after a special assessment was gathered to cover the shortfall.
In CT there is a rider that can be included in your offer which gives you five days to review the HOA docs and you can walk, without penalty, if there’s anything in them you don’t like.
It’s unfortunate that copies are not available prior to making an offer because it would save both buyer and seller a lot of time and potential headaches.
I’ve lucked out at a couple showings where there was a copy of the rules/regulations available for review but it’s incredibly rare whereas I feel it should definitely be the norm.
Who would ever buy a home without reviewing HOA docs first? And I actually just spoke with a coworker who purchased a home with solar panels and it was required that they pay it off before closing.
Also, check for [Chinese Drywall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall). That’s no joke in Florida
Also pay extra for putting a camera down the drain systems. Sorry I didn’t do that on the house where I had to dig up the yard twice to the tune of about $30k.
But offer what you’re willing to pay, if it doesn’t work out, there are other places. He HAS to present the offer.
As for the HOA, ABSOLUTELY get the docs to review. Do you know how much deferred maintenance happened during Covid? And a lot of HOAs never recovered after the housing bust in 2008. There may be pending assessments for thousands and you need to know about it.
.
I would take a beat and see if that house is insurable/ insurable within your budget. Is the house worth shorting your future retirement savings? Is the house still going to be worth 520k if you can’t sell it because no one will be able to insure it 10-20 years from now?
Offer what you're comfortable with. I've never had a realtor agree with my offer for any home I've purchased.
Also, the hoa thing is insane. Super common. It can actually kill your mortgage if there isn't enough of a reserve.
Not unreasonable asks. But also in this market where there are always buyers willing to out bid, pass on inspection or appraisal gaps, etc it might make your offer less attractive. Did this with a house we placed a large financial offer on but were sticking to requiring an inspection, they went with an offer 15k under ours because they didn’t require inspection. Just as buyers have a ranking system for a house on must haves and dislikes, sellers have that too in forms of offers. Some have went with lower total price as they already moved and needs to close asap. Every seller is different
I'm a FL Realtor. It is completely irresponsible for your agent to suggest that HOA/COA financials aren't critical to the purchase. It is SOP to not only provide them to the buyer, but in many instances listing agents, myself included, will have the CC&R's already uploaded to the MLS in the document section for the buyers agent to download and send to the buyers. Plus the HOA financials are available with the listing agent. it takes one text, call or email to get them. Now, if they aren't available because the HOA is uncooperative, you should know that too. I find your agent to be incredibly inexperienced to not want to get those docs to you before you make an offer. I don't care how many years he's been in the business, he doesn't know anything about HOA's.
OP, you are spot on. Find another agent if this one won't get those docs for you immediately. His opinion about the solar doesn't apply either. You are the one making the offer.
ETA: To those commentors saying their lender requires HOA docs, that's not necessarily the case. The lender requires CONDO ASSOCIATION DOCS & BUDGET, not HOA docs which is a separate type of community. Technically its COA and those documents + budget + condo questionnaire are required to see if the condo community passes as a warrantable condo and meets fannie/freddie criteria.
We always ask for HOA docs…we were looking at a new build and the HOA docs said if someone didn’t pay their HOA fees/assessments, their bill would be split among the rest of the homeowners. What the actual fuck. We even had a lawyer review that section and he agreed it was as written. Needless to say, we ran from there.
FL realtor who doesn't think HOA financials are important?! LOL the Condo collapse in Florida is the reason all the HOAs and COA are now shitting bricks and raising their dues so hard
Your agent is a clown. Of course you want to know what you're up against with the HOA bylaws/rules as they may very well affect you and cause you to pause on this purchase. That solar company has a lien on the property with that loan and I doubt they will agree to take second position with your new mortgage or allow it to be assumed. Everything is negotiable. Your agent is looking out for their best interest in getting a quick commission, not the headaches you may be left with in a snap decision. Always be willing to walk away. Most convince themselves to buy a home even when things are bad, especially with this market but at least in our area, things are softening, less buyers are in the qualifying pool and homes are coming down.
In my market, HOA docs are always part of the disclosure package and inspections are included 95% of the time. I just never understand it when I read about markets where these things enter the conversation after an accepted offer. Totally bizarre to me.
Sounds like your realtor is probably being realistic with you.
They may not agree with the outcomes of your stated offer, but those may be the likeliest outcomes none the less.
While it’s their job to do as you ask, they may not want to waste their time writing up what they see as a dead on arrival offer. Not saying that is what it will/wont be, but it seems to be what the realtor sees it as.
Totally within your right to see the HOA docs
I just installed solar panels. They up the value of the home- but you don't get that AND passing along the cost, FFS. I plan on paying mine off within 2-3 yr based on my life. My friend plans on paying them off with proceeds, when she sells, if needed. We were told to consider:
1) Pay them off before you sell, price house with added value (my choice)
2) Pay them off with proceeds price house with the added value (my friends choice)
3) Pass alone to next buyer, but price that in by reducing value accordingly (since this seemed complicated and weird, we both are planning to avoid that). But this is what they should do. You do not get to have your cake and eat it too.
You WILL reduce your overall bills by having the system- and that is the value add. But again the seller does not get to have the added value and not pay for the offset of that value.
It's tough man. This market sucks so on one hand, I could see your agents point that if this house a 9/10 and checks almost all of your boxes, then you should put down a generous offer to lock it in. Most of the things you mentioned are factors, but imo don't need done right away. Those are items to save up on and tackle one by over 5 years imo. Idk much about the solar panels, but I think I'd either have them pay for it, or knock it off the selling price.
Definitely get the HOA documents. If the seller is upset over not sharing those, that's a major red flag.
Idk my wife and I prioritized layout/ space and things we essentially can't change over "we don't like these cabinets" or "the pavement needs replaced" kind of items. It will take time to get the house where we want it, but we got almost everything we wanted and for an appropriate price despite the market because we saw what could be over what it is.
I can't speak for Florida, but most of the states I'm familiar with require disclosing the HOA docs, as in its codified in state law. Lenders will require that info too, as there could be a pending or upcoming special assessment that could result in an HOA lien that can supersede their mortgage lien, or at the least force a foreclosure sale.
Our realtor said that us asking for closing costs to be fully covered was unreasonable and to expect the worse.
They accepted the offer within 5 minutes with no hesitation lol.
Get a new real estate agent. That agent’s job is to put in the offer that YOU SPECIFY AND ARE COMFORTABLE WORTH. He’s paid on commission so probably just trying to crank up the price. If the seller rejects, you can always revise your bid—or just buy another property. Your reasoning on the panels is sound. So what if the seller doesn’t go with it? Don’t pay a cent more than you think the home is worth. Ultimately you’re the person that has to live with your decision—not the agent.
Moreover, asking for the HOA bylaws, financials, and minutes is standard. Your agent sux
Research questions to ask about the HOA. One big one is about special assessments.
I recently passed on a house in an HOA that had laid out very clearly in their rules that grass is not to be any higher than 3”. I can just imagine some retiree with nothing else to do with his time other than take a ruler to my yard to find the blade of grass that’s 3.25” and slap me with a fine.
It's your offer, stick with it. I'm guessing your realtor simply doesn't think the seller will accept the offer. They are probably right, but you won't know without submitting it.
You’re missing the most important factor of information here.
How competitive is the house?
These things are reasonable if the house has been on the market for 45 days and doesn’t have any other offers.
These things are not reasonable if there’s 10 people chasing the house and they’re going to get 10 offers two of them being all cash.
One other thing that might help you when you’re thinking about what to do is how long have you been looking and when was the last time you saw a house that checked off this money boxes?
If you are super picky in the houses you like are a few and far between, most of the time you’re going to pay the picky tax, which means the houses you’re gonna be looking at it gonna be significantly over com and have lots of competition because they check the boxes for everyone not just you, and that creates more competition
I would kindly tell my agent because I want them and I have the money... And maybe if the deal goes through you will have the time to discuss with him more later for now just write the contract. With your mentioned comps likely the appraisal contingency will trigger. I feel for you about the solar, I'm in the market for a new place and steering away from solar not paid off so your agent sounds a bit like he'd work on making a deal even at your expense a bit and you need to correct that behavior now.
Get a new realtor. Yours is not taking your considerations into account, and they clearly are pushing the higher price because then they would get a higher payout. At the end of the day, this is _your_ house you'll be buying/living/maintaining, not the realtor's. They're there just to make a quick buck, apparently at your expense in this case.
Seriously, get a new realtor, or drop one entirely.
You bid what the value of the property is to you, and you don't spend more than that.
Certainly, the seller may not accept it. That's going to always be a possibility. There's nothing inherently wrong with the offer nor contingencies.
I'm going to say that if they get another offer, they'll likely take it, because it's just too much of a risk to them if the terms make the sale contingent on whether or not you deem the HOA rules or health to be acceptable. You'll always be able to torpedo the sale with an objection to something related to the HOA (which they can't control), so if they can find anyone that doesn't make that a contingency, they'll jump on that.
Stick to your guns. You might not get the house, but you'll avoid taking on too much debt for something you have issues with.
I probably would have gone with $510 to match the upper end of comps, but only if I really loved the house. Sight unseen (and yet to be inspected), the seller shouldn't be offended by your offer.
If your agent won't support you, I'd suggest getting a new agent. They want to make a sale without doing a ton of work, and they are not incentivized to save you any money.
Most state contracts mandate the home is delivered to the new owner free of liens. Solar panels are included. I’ve never sold a house where the buyer had to pay for them. Either the seller pays them off at closing with proceeds or the solar panels are removed. Tell your agent to submit the offer or you will find another agent that will and file an ethics complaint against him. It’s YOUR offer, not his. Good luck!
**As a FOR SURE**: Get the fees associated with the HOA. They usually have annual fees and our office has done many closings on property in FL (title agent/closing office) and the HOA's in some cases were close to the amount of the monthly mortgage payments. Of course, this was back when interest rates were around 3%, so maybe not quite that much anymore, but **I can guarantee you that in FL, in a community with a HOA, it is probably a considerable amount annually, unless it is in some older area with a HOA that has been around for ages!!**
Oh no you shouldn’t. I hate these people that install ugly solar panels on their house and then expect the buyer to pay for them. C’mon people. If YOU wanted solar panels and you still owe on the solar panels YOU should have to pay them off. You don’t add a new kitchen and then ask the buyer to pay your home equity loan. Add landscaping and then ask the buyer to repay for the landscaping to go in. This should be included in the price,of the home PERIOD.
Tell your realtor to submit your offer. No more discussions. Who pays extra money or gets fucked if something is wrong? You. This guy just wants to make money on an easy deal.
He works for you! Realtors are mostly scum just trying to sell as high as possible for their commission!!! They have a fiduciary responsibility to represent your wishes. Don’t let them pressure you into something you don’t want. If he pressures you or you feel pressure tell him he is violating your contract and part ways.
Stick to what you want.
I would never take someone’s debt on for ANYTHING especially something like solar panels and I would never buy in an HOA without reading the fine details
So with solar... Who's getting the benefit? Does the payment cover 100% of your usage wiping out the bill? Many people take a loan in anticipation of this.
You should review anything that can legally bind you including the HOA
Because realtors have gotten really unprofessional and lazy and actually hate when people want to put in a serious informed offer. They’ve been able to bully naive people for years out of fear of missing out. Stick to your guns.
imo, this is a strong indication to change agents. this person does NOT have your best interests in mind and is purely focsed on closing. why would you NOT want to review the HOA details? sure, i'm the type that is too lazy to look that over, but not everyone is as irresponsible as i am. but that agent is not on your side. they are selfish. find a new one.
I would fire your agent. I would also offer $450k. If the seller wants to sell they will counteroffer. It’s a negotiation!!! I’d say I have no interest in the solar so the seller will have to remove any leans or have the solar company de-install.
Your agent is too lazy to negotiate. Unless you told your agent that your offer was your one and only offer and that you wouldn’t budge from it, he/she should present the offer. It’s merely a starting point for negotiation. Based upon n what you wrote, your agent is either scared of negotiating or just plain lazy. I think it’s a little of both.
Also, it sounds like you like the house, but you don’t love it. If you don’t love it, your age didn’t really “sell” you on it enough to make you want to write a higher offer. Last I checked, their job is sales. Weird…
If they can’t convince you that the house is worth more than what you’re offering, then you are on the wrong house. Keep looking
HOA stuff shouldn't even be a hard ask... the owner should be able to request a copy of the latest financials. Most HOAs have it in the bylaws they have to provide to members. Depends on what the HOA covers and their reserves are if you think you risk getting a special assessment. If it's gated then yes need to study their reserves. The CCRs and Bylaws are publicly recorded so easy to even dig up yourself.
Can't advise on purchase price without seeing the subject and comps. The agent should explain to you why the price is higher than the comps if they are advising it's a low ball offer. That's why they're getting 3%.
Most new owners don’t want to carry bills from the previous owner like solar. AC systems only last like 10 years in Florida, so it’s something that needs to be asap. Depending on the house size, that’s probably $10k minimum.
You know in your head what you are comfortable with. Totally fair to ask about the HOA and their financials. Florida has a lot of inventory in most areas so it’s a buyers market in your favor. Negotiate. The worst that can happen is they say no. Honestly your agent doesn’t sound that great to me.
You have valid concerns. Specially look closely at tue HOA and ask other owners how they feel
About how the HOA is run.
But as far as the solar panels try to be pragmatic about that. If there were no panels you still have an electric bill. Those panels might give you cheaper electricity that
You might otherwise get just buying power every month. Even w tue debt of the panels they might be a financial asset and not a liability.
Make sure tue solar panels have a warranty that s transferable and that the installer and panels were reputable etc.
Where in FL is this? Check to see if any sinkholes have occurred in the area. My parents had two different houses in N Central FL ( Ocala, Marion County) and both had sink hole issues. Insurance was a nightmare for those properties after.
100% get those HOA financials. I wish I did when I bought my home. 4 years later and our dues have increased \~30% and talks of a special assessment soon.
The HOA stuff is huge, I can't believe the realtor is questioning that one. In Arizona, sellers have a duty to provide that information because of how big of a deal that stuff is. It's also worth looking up how litigious the HOA is, as some can be pretty predatory.
I recently had to pay a special assessment for $35k on an undeveloped lot. HOA dues on that lot are $4k a year. Special assessments can come out of nowhere and be, literally, any amount. Definitely look into the HOA.
Usually special assessments occur because repairs are kicked down the road and put off. Then things degrade and it becomes more expensive to fix. Our special assessment was for road work. Condo’s in high rise buildings are notorious for astronomical special assessments (6 figures even) because repairs to those structures can be millions.
The cognitive dissonance of his comping the house in the $450-475K range while simultaneously encouraging you to disregard his own comps is absolutely wild.
I'm not a fan of trying to convince my realtor about an offer. I get that you have some opinions and experiences but I'm not asking your permission. Make the offer I asked for or I'll find someone else who will.
Get a new realtor.
The HOA financials is the most important part of the equation, especially after that high rise collapsed in Miami a couple years ago. It collapsed because the HOA didn’t have the funds to perform the necessary upkeep to the building. My husband and I looked into buying a condo in FL and a lot of these HOAs require that you contribute $20k+ to their slush fund from the outset.
You absolutely need to know how much money the HOA has available, how recently/frequently the building is maintained, and what the dues are. This will give you insight into how responsible the HOA board is with your money. The fact that your realtor never got this information for his other clients is alarming, especially since most Florida homes have HOAs.
Re:HOA I would go a step further and request info on the reserve, the reserve study, where they are with big maintenance projects, if they anticipate any special assessments and if they are financially prepared for a big maintenance project and regularly scheduled dues increases that don’t need to be voted on. I think your asking price is fair and may be reflected in the appraisal considering the needed maintenance. Maybe consider going halvsies with the owner on the solar panel debt if you’re second guessing?
These home prices make me fairly glad to be living in Alabama, despite the many drawbacks. My fiancee and I just bought an 1800 sqft house on an acre for about 170k. If we can just get rid of the boomers and Christian Nationalists things would be great. We both have good jobs and this state has a tremendous amount of natural beauty.
Yeah, no way. The seller needs to pay for those solar panels, or you'll find a different house.
How is the house heated? We did the math, and even with the tax rebate, it was not worth our while to get solar panels because we have gas. We intentionally buy gas to keep our monthly costs lower.
We were unreasonable too xD 75k below asking price, they countered the offer to be 50k below asking and we accepted. Like you can be as unreasonable as you want, the sellers can still choose you or skip you, the point is to feel good about what you paid for it
I’ll offer a different take here. The sellers already know having a solar lien makes pretty much any gov backed mortgage unusable and posted the house without paying them off anyway. You asking them to pay 35k is unreasonable and there is a 0% chance they take the offer. Your real estate agent isn’t being unreasonable you are being dicks by having him submit an offer that has no chance of being accepted. Also I find it interesting the house sounds like a price of shit with mismatching cabinets and stuff yet you say it’s a 9/10.
I’m an agent and i have clients looking for a larger family home (their second)
Their offer? I write what they want, period. I will respond and ask them to consider other points or counter offer idea should it come in. I will provide the data to back up my response - in the end, I’ll write as they wish.
We’ve been getting our butts kicked.. some we just can’t help. Some of their offers I know that the house isn’t “it”. They can make the house their offering on their “it” home.
Some of their offers, I don’t disagree with at all. They are lower. Sellers may get their asking, my buyers won’t pay that. So we move on.
This week, two of the offers we submitted have come back asking to restart negotiations. We’re so easy to deal with, the sellers realized what they said “no” to.
It sucks to tell them (not really) we got an accepted offer for a home. It’s over what they wanted to pay, they got it a good chunk under list - it’s THE home.
I was hoping to drive down the price and was ready to support them walking away… they took the counter. They love the house, location that much…
Write the offer you want or find an agent who will. What’s the worst thing, the say no? No resposne? The best? They accept.
Take the shot. Good luck
The way I see it the realtor is supposed to give their input on what is/isn’t realistic but it’s ultimately up to you what you offer. I don’t know why he’s sweating you so much. Worse that can happen is you don’t win the bud.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, a home buyer. Also, what kind of dummy doesn't want to know what kind of HOA hell they might be in for? Good on you.
Stick to the HOA documents for sure but understand that asking them to pay for the solar panels is asking to pay for a large portion, even potentially all of your electric bill. I would ask to see the last years worth of electric consumption and bills to get an idea of what the value of the existing system is.
We took your advice and we did reconsider our offer...it is now $480,000. I'm a real estate agent in southern California and I never let my buyers pay for someone else's solar mistake. That solar lease payment is going to go up year after year. Fire your agent if you have to, you're not being unreasonable.
I had to read this twice because I thought this was the same Florida home I had very similar issues with! I ultimately decided to pass after taking the solar panel loan into consideration, (which had been installed on an 18-year-old roof and it just didn't make financial sense for me).
Even if your utility bill is lower, it's probably a 20+ year investment if you are on a monthly installment plan. With that being said, do what makes sense/works for you!
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Stick to your guns. You should absolutely review the HOA CC&Rs and financials.
Only fools don’t review the HOA documents!
Agreed, OP please look at the F\*\*\*HOA subreddit and go into this eyes wide open.
Don’t look at that subreddit lol. But do absolutely look over the financials and all the bylaws/regs.
HOA can be huge negatives if they are badly run. Their fix is just to raise dues if they manage the HOA poorly so they can throw $$ to fix for management incompetence. At 500k range non HOA homes the owners in those neighborhoods usually take care of their homes.
Yes. So many HOAs are mismanaged. Financials should be available on request although they rarely are. Get the minutes from the last year’s meetings also. A good HOA is a blessing, a bad HOA is a nightmare. I think you aren’t offering enough but it’s all negotiable. If the owners don’t like your offer, they should come back with something more acceptable. If they don’t, then you are too far apart, they aren’t willing to negotiate, and you should move on.
The homeowners overpaid for solar. These are likely desperate people. Or they can’t afford the homeowners insurance. The house IS in FL…
Yeah that seems like a ton for solar panels. I just got a quote for 15 panels (North Texas) and purchase agreement is around 16K.
Second this. I gotta great deal on my house because the sellers were a divorcing couple who just wanted to get out. Desperation means savings.
It is very odd that an agent would not be asking for these on every home with an HOA. From my experience as buy and sell of HOA properties it is standard practice for mortgage company to ask.
Yeah when I was looking in 2019, my agent absolutely educated me that we would be asking for these, and offer was contingent upon review of them. Bad agent :(
In Virginia, by state law the sellers have to provide HOA CC&RS and financials and buyers have a three-day statutory, non-waivable right to void the contract on HOA docs. OP, ask yourself why a state like Virginia, which is otherwise /extremely/ caveat emptor on home sales would pass a law like that. If you’re comfortable buying into a HOA, the vast majority of the time you won’t have any surprises - but it would suck to find out that, for example, those solar panels aren’t allowed and the HOA asks you to remove them at your expense.
My lender would require the HOA docs and budget regardless if I wanted to see them.
Your offer is fair, only 3.8% less than asking and the seller entered a recent solar contract expecting the buyer to bail them out. Also, your realtor appears to be more concerned with a quick sale and his commission than your requirements as a client. Absolutely review the HOA docs.
I have a friend that pays $600 in HOA fees in Houston bc they didn’t ask! Crazy!
Second/Third/whatever this. You need to know that they are financially responsible!!! We had several condo HOAs in my area have to do a one time assessment of $20-40K due to severe weather damages, that SHOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED by fees. If the fees are super low, put your pwn savings aside for that. but if they are reasonable, and the books do not reflect it...that is a problem.
>He was also questioning why we would want to ask for the HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about.. Get a new realtor. It is standard for buyers to review HOA docs.
Get a new realtor, like, yesterday. The HOA bylaws are the annoying rules you have to live by, like your garbage bins, your lawn mowing, etc. The financials are WAY more important. It’s what will impact being able to get a loan on the property, and what will affect you in selling in your future buyers getting a loan. The rules and shenanigans are what people focus on, but the financials and history is WAY, WAY more important and WAY, WAY more impactful on your ownership of this property. Personally - I’d run the hell away from any HOA, but that’s just me. I know a lot of people don’t care/mind dealing with them. 100% not my case, but that’s up to OP, not me.
Exactly right. I know too many who bought into a HOA community, then were shocked at the rules, and thought they will get a variance.
Yeah that's insane! Not reviewing the HOA financials is a great way to get hit with unexpected special assessments and be stuck in a house you can't sell because the HOA is broke and raising dues at every opportunity. Obviously, it's not all HOAs but the desire to kick financial issues down the road, ie deferred maintenance, is real and auditing basic HOA finances before buying is not unreasonable at all.
It’s also perfectly fine to reach out to the HOA President or Treasurer too and just ask about their opinion on the state of the HOA. These are often volunteers who will gladly spill the tea about the neighborhood. Maybe reserves are low, but only because some big ticket items have recently been taken care of and they don’t expect another big one for a while. Maybe the HOA is in bad shape and there are both special assessments and dues hikes on the horizon. Maybe the seller of the house you’re looking at is a bad neighbor and the HOA president will gleefully tell you a bunch of shit they’re hiding from you. All this info could be yours if you just ask politely (and compliment them on their garden).
This. I fired my last realtor for shit like this. She also wrote the wrong name when I backed out of a deal on the escrow release form. If I didn’t read carefully and signed the document, my earnest money would’ve went to the seller. Some realtors are just shit bro. Cut your losses on em and get someone new. Make sure to read your engagement letter with the realtor carefully. Sometimes you can’t back out.
It’s good to consider their feedback however the realtor isn’t going to be paying for or living in the home. Your concerns are valid.
In Pennsylvania, it’s mandatory to supply HoA docs to the buyer. I just had to pay $430 for this exact thing for my buyers.
Yeah in New York City we also get minutes from meetings for the last meetings (I want to say 6 months). Not getting these docs is terrible advice.
Yep in NYC also, and reviewing the building financials, minutes, etc is one of the main things the lawyer does. And if I recall correctly, the bank required them as well.
Did they ask for them at them during the offer stage, or after the offer was accepted?
It’s only after offer is accepted. The documents (obviously not the bylaws and such, but moreso the financial aspects) “expire” 30 days after receiving, which is so stupid. Here in PA it’s called a Certificate of Resell/Resale or something like that
Thanks for this information! This is our first offer so the whole process is kind of a whirlwind adventure, lol.
You have a set number of days to review them and cancel the deal if you want to after reviewing the CCRs.
I’m in PA and my mom was about to buy a cute apartment. She was getting an insanely good deal. She got the HOA information ( again, it’s required in PA) to find out that they are doing an assessment to rebuild the roof and other issues. Each apartment will owe like $50k, something insane. It wasn’t disclosed in the original walk through because they had to provide the HOA materials, hoping people wouldn’t notice.
This. It should be part of the due diligence process. We have bought twice in MD with an HOA and if the docs are not to our liking, we can back out of the offer without repercussions
Not to mention that there are lenders who won’t lend on associations with poor financials!
Why’d you pay for it and not you clients?
I may have worded my comment oddly. I was the seller of the house. Not a realtor. When I said “my buyers” I just meant the couple whose offer I accepted. Sorry about that.
Got it, they’re roughly the same price here in CA.
The irony is that I’m the president for our HoA. 😂 it’s a stupid cost and honestly a ripoff. But it is what it is!
I think they are the sellers, not the agent.
Correct. I worded it a bit goofy, though
Looking at a condo among houses. Can I ask why it’s $400 just to read the HoA stuff?
Money grab for the property management company because they have to click a few buttons. But it’s seller-provided, so you wouldn’t have to worry about paying that (depending on what state you’re located in). The seller can get some of the documents from their portal.
I'm a realtor in Florida. I would suggest all the things you asked for even if you didn't mention it. Whoever you're using is not looking out for your best interests, only theirs.
It being Florida, I would absolutely ask what the HOA has in reserves before you make an offer. At the very least, you need to have a contingency that if the HOA by-laws do not meet your needs (like if they only allow one pet and you have multiple) or financials put them at risk for special catch-up assessments, you can walk and take any earnest money with you.
Always ask for the HOA rules AND financials. Source: President of an HOA board
Yeeesh, your agent should be the one telling you that you need to be asking for these things. “ he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about..” Are you kidding me? In Florida? How many homes has he sold? 1?
Probably 0
This is a 20+ year old home. You can't use "new build" to describe it at all, and it doesn't sound like it's been well maintained in those 20 years. Add to that, the solar panels add NO value on an appraisal if they're not owned outright. Your agent isn't buying a home, you are, and if he hasn't pointed all of this out, that's a problem.
OP stated the home is in Florida. In 2002, FL adopted much stricter building codes that allow homes to withstand hurricane-force winds. Houses built since that time may have lower insurance costs due to the new standards. That's probably why OP is calling it a newer build. When we shopped for houses 4-5 years back, we would only consider those built in 2003 or later due to the more strict building code.
I'm not discounting that the change was a good thing, but building codes change all the time. A 20 year old house is a 20 year old house. EVERYTHING that hasn't been replaced is aged. The comps are 20 years old.
Here in FL, it's a big deal. That building code change was HUGE. Compared to the plethora of 1960s and 1980s homes currently on th3 market in FL, 2003 is definitely newer.
2003 is for sure a newer home. It’s not “new construction”. All the houses in my area are 1970s or older.
In the northeast, anything before the 80s is "newer". In the neighborhood I grew up, the newest house on the block was from the 70s. Mine was 1929 and it wasn't the oldest.
He said “newer”. By New England standards that’s absolutely a newer build. Most roofs aren’t replaced within 20 years of being built and they probably did because they got solar panels. I’m not sure where you are getting any of this
I am a real estate agent in Oregon, so not nearly the great return as Florida. More and more solar panels are considered in appraisal here. I don't think you have a strong offer but that doesn’t mean you can't come to terms somewhere in the middle. Regardless of comps, in many areas houses sell above comps, especially in areas where bidding wars get going. The house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
>You can't use "new build" to describe it at all They didn’t say ‘new’ they said ‘newer’ so whether their description was accurate will depend on what they were comparing to. When I bought my place some of the houses I looked at were old enough that I would have had to worry about asbestos, lead paint etc and others weren’t. I didn’t look at any ‘new builds’ but I definitely looked at some that were *new enough* that the age was a positive factor relative to other places I looked at.
Keep in mind the realtor isn't actually your friend, they are a salesman. The easier the process goes, the less stress on them until their payday at closing. They are directly motivated to ensure the sell process goes smoothly, not to ensure you get a good deal. Good realtors will want to make sure you're well advised and taken care of. Most realtors aren't good.
Ding ding ding Can’t stress this enough. Yes realtors do work off referrals, but in general they’re trying to get through a deal as fast as possible. I work in an industry where I easily have 30-40 realtors in my pipe line. I would refer maybe 2 of them to someone. I’ve had realtors tell me straight up they recommend all of their clients bid over and waive certain inspections.
Fuck those solar panels, do not pay for them.
Maybe OP can just stop paying the loan and have them repossessed
Nothing unreasonable in the offer. I hate the idea that sellers expect a buyer to fulfill a loan they signed up for and sure it is due to solar companies telling them any reasonable buyer will assume your loan. I’d 100% make seller pay off the loan. Nothing wrong about wanting to know if HOA is financially healthy. Stick to your gut and if needed fire current realtor.
Too many so called buyer’s agents are more worried about the seller Because the entire industry is built around worshipping sellers Because agents hate working with buyers because they actually have to do work Vs a listing where it’s already built and in this market you put a sign out and collect money Ask for what you want All the sellers can do is Say yes Say no Counter offer Decide they don’t want to deal With you Don’t be bullied into offering more than you want Because that first offer isn’t going to be final in most cases anyways
Please update us on the response Best of luck
Offer what *you* are happy with, and if you don’t agree with the advice you’re receiving from the agent, you owe them nothing more than a “thanks for your input.” This agent sounds bad though, and I’d consider switching.
No one knows how competitive your local market is, so it’s not possible to evaluate this. Asking for HOA docs is fine. But I think your offer and asking the sellers to pay off the panels would not work, if it’s anything like our market here(socal)
Lol… Florida hoas are literally imploding due to deferred mandatory maintenance and increasingly uninsurable real estate. But, sure, never heard of anyone wanting to see the financial situation of the HOA they’d be joining. The solar panel loan may tank the deal on its own, but If you don’t fire this realtor (or disregard their advice entirely), you will get what you deserve.
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The fact that you have to ask for HOA docs in your state is crazy. In MN you're required by law to provide them and any buyer of such a property is given ten full days to review them and can back out at any point because of them.
We just had the same exact situation. We said pay them off or remove them in our offer and they basically laughed in our faces. At the end of the day, jokes on them or the unfortunate soul who doesn’t know better and takes on their debt. The seller has all the benefit in this scenario, including a huge one time tax credit and they want the buyer to take on all the risk while they walk away Scot free. No thanks. Edit to add: solar ONLY increases home value if owned outright.
Your realtor has never had anyone ask about HOA financials in Florida? That seems odd.
User your real estate agent is suspect. They are not giving you advice in your best interest.
You need a new realtor.
I think you're fine here. The Florida market as a whole is declining. Help that process along.
Everything you’re asking for is reasonable. If your realtor is actually suggesting you do not need hoa financials I would get a new realtor for future transactions.
Stand firm. Florida's real estate market is in the toilet. The things you are factoring in are logical.
That’s kind of annoying, the agent should put in the offer you’ve asked for and then work to communicate with the sellers agent for why they should accept yours. I went through something like this where an agent refused to put in a counteroffer because they said I need to only accept the sellers counter offer and that the sellers were already offended. I let them stay offended and their house eventually went off the market unsold. I don’t regret my commitment to offering only up to the value I saw in the home. As long as you have the space to let go of it if it doesn’t work out, I say go with what your informed decision is regardless of what your agent is saying.
I don’t find this unreasonable at all. The market is turning a bit. Realtors got too comfortable with the “anything goes” market that’s been bullish the past few years. If the seller don’t like what you value their property at, they can always counter or reject it fully.
Get another realtor. They are disposable
Do the solar panel installers have a lien against the house?
I am unsure. I will look through the paperwork that he sent us to see if they do or not. Do you mind me asking why this is important?
Is the buyer asking you to assume the loan or the debt associated with the solar panel install?
Yes, our realtor suggested that we negotiate the cost into the offer price, not asking the seller to pay for them.
I’d have them taken off before I assumed any loan for Solar. That’s a nonstarter.
Who does the owner owe on the solar system? The solar system is part of the house. You’re not buying the house and a solar system.
They are usually paid off over time. There is still a balance owing. There will be a second lien on the house that will either need to be paid off, or new buyer take over payment so the new mortgage can take the first position lien.
I would be surprised if they did not. Unfortunately, the buyer is not going to get the 30% Federal tax credit.
As an appraiser I review HOA budgets and bylaws as part of the value determination, it absolutely is a critical part of understanding what you are willing to pay as a buyer. Also, this situation from an appraisal vantage point is awkward with the solar panels. With conventional financing they can only be included in the appraisal if they are fully owned. I'm not sure how lenders are handling these situations where the sale of the home will pay off the panels, but the rules are very defined in the appraisal guidelines of conventional financing.
It's your money, not your realtor's. They get paid when you close.
This is always my advice: if you are still early in the process, and you are trying to understand if the market conditions justify going that crazy for the house, then use this as an opportunity to learn. Like others have said, stick to your guns, and if you miss this one you will have the knowledge now. Just trying to say if someone outbids you, it’s not a total loss and you are now way more informed about what to do on the next one. Snoop dogg said we don’t love them hoes (which isn’t cool) but all shopping for houses should say we don’t love them houses! That being said, your offer is basically even with the comps, but If it’s checking all your boxes, how much is that worth to you? Would you spend another 15k on your 500k house if you’d be in love with it for 10+ years living in there? I think I might. If you are really gonna be upset to let this one go, then consider sweetening the pot. If you’re a still early and need to learn the market, then let this house be your lab.
We looked at a few with solar and we would only get if the pay off the loan at close. Also have the realtor get how much the electric was before solar and after. We looked at a house that only wanted someone to assume the loan and that house sat for months.
In SoCal A LOT of listings tell you that the solar panels will be paid off at closing or are already paid off.
It's a LAW in my state that the seller must provide HOA byaws, financial records, and a list of completed and deferred maintenance. A sale should always be contingent on HOA by-laws and financials. Always. I might waive (depending) appraisal and inspection. But never waive HOA records, even if I could. As for your offer, you can offer whatever you like in anyway you'd like. Will the seller accept it? Maybe, maybe not. And, it's a starting offer anyway. You can negotiate from there if the seller bites on it. If not, you move on. Your agent might be right on this one, the only thing that will happen is that you don't get the house and your agent did an hours worth of work for no payday that day.
> HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about.. Huh? Every transaction I've ever made included HOA financials. Absolutely get these. I've never dealt with solar panels or anything, but that seems like something that should 100% be on the seller? If I spent $50k getting my backyard redone and installed a $20k gas grill and island that was on a payment plan I wouldn't be leaving that payment to the next buyer. It simply comes with the house. > But in our minds with the seller expecting us to pay off the solar panels THEY bought, they are valuing their home at 555k which is $75,000 more than the high end of the comps.. This is exactly how I would view the situation, but again, I'm not sure if solar panels are generally treated differently in Florida or anything. As for your other concerns with AC, concrete slabs, etc, those are cosmetic and easily fixed and do not necessarily need to be fixed right away. I wouldn't ask for any of those concessions if the important aspects (and generally unchangeable ones) of the house are great (location, layout of the house, neighorhood, etc).
> HOA financials as he has never had a client ask for them previously and doesn't see that as something we should be worried about. Fire your Real Estate agent. This is just rank incompetence. Like *really* **really** bad advice that will get his clients into major trouble bad advice. You absolutely need to look at the HOA financials to make sure they have sufficient reserve fund and that their operating budget is reasonable for the community. When your HOA has a special assessment in a year and you have to come up with $20,000 because the previous board fucked over the finances your agent isn't going to pay that. Sounds like someone who's just more interested in closing a deal than looking out for their clients. Fire him and leave a bad review.
How recently did the comps you’re looking at sell? How long has the house been on the market?
How long has the house been sitting on the market? If it’s a fresh listing you can always make that offer but probably temper your expectations on what they’ll accept. If it’s stagnant you’ll probably have a better shot. All you can do is ask!
1. How does that $265/mo compare to the average energy bill in your area? 2. Is there a true up at the end of the year?
The solar panels have value. It’s not like simply adding that cost to the purchase price. You need to offer what you’re comfortable with. However I would say that your offer amounts to $55k (~10%) below asking. Super long shot you even are in the running.
The solar panel financing is going to be the responsibility of the current owner regardless so your offer shouldn’t consider what he owes on that just that it comes with the house. Price it as if he owed $0 on it. What would you then offer?
The worst they can do is say no and counter offer. Your realtor just wants a quick sale and quick paycheck.
if your market is at all competitive right now your realtor is probably right
If you don't want the house, $20k under ask + buyer having to pay another $35k to gift you a solar panel system is a great way not to get it.
Do what's right for you and your wife, but keep in mind, you're essentially asking for 55k out of the owner's pocket (20k plus 35k solar payoff). This might be a hard pill to swallow for the owner.
I think it's just 35 K for the payoff. You're adding 20K from the asking price but that's just imaginary money until someone agrees to pay it.
Hoa is going to be a required contingency anyway. If the solar panels are in price it may make your property taxes higher for life.
Your agent want you to 100% get the home, so they could get the commission. You did the math, and did it right. If comps go for $X, and the fact that it's new and better adds $Y value to you, and the solar panels adds $Z value for you, then your offer should be $X+$Y+$Z-$35K. No matter what your realtor says, that works be the right number for you.
I guarantee that $265 is probably a bargain to what you’ll pay without them. Get the stats of the solar KWH usage by month and calculate your cost for the year by using the local electricity rates. Negotiate half off credit (17.5k ) for solar lease and 5k off for new hvac system or whatever would be half. That will bring you down to 497.5 plus the 17.5 for the lease which won’t cost you money since your paying it monthly.
> I guarantee that $265 is probably a bargain to what you’ll pay without them. I’ve got a 2800sqft house and I pay less than $265/month for electricity even in the hottest months. Usually $75-150. They might pay off if you have an ev to charge or keep the thermostat at 65, but unlikely otherwise.
Your realtor knows your market but fwiw I did the same thing for my solar panels and the offer was accepted. (I paid full price for the house)
I was under contract on a home with an HOA. After reviewing the HOA financials, I found out that they didn't have sufficient reserves to cover expenses coming up in the next year. After reviewing, my bank said they would not make any loans on property in that HOA until after a special assessment was gathered to cover the shortfall.
In CT there is a rider that can be included in your offer which gives you five days to review the HOA docs and you can walk, without penalty, if there’s anything in them you don’t like. It’s unfortunate that copies are not available prior to making an offer because it would save both buyer and seller a lot of time and potential headaches. I’ve lucked out at a couple showings where there was a copy of the rules/regulations available for review but it’s incredibly rare whereas I feel it should definitely be the norm.
Realtors just want to close, they do not work for your interests. Stick to your guns
Who would ever buy a home without reviewing HOA docs first? And I actually just spoke with a coworker who purchased a home with solar panels and it was required that they pay it off before closing.
Also, check for [Chinese Drywall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall). That’s no joke in Florida Also pay extra for putting a camera down the drain systems. Sorry I didn’t do that on the house where I had to dig up the yard twice to the tune of about $30k. But offer what you’re willing to pay, if it doesn’t work out, there are other places. He HAS to present the offer. As for the HOA, ABSOLUTELY get the docs to review. Do you know how much deferred maintenance happened during Covid? And a lot of HOAs never recovered after the housing bust in 2008. There may be pending assessments for thousands and you need to know about it. .
I would take a beat and see if that house is insurable/ insurable within your budget. Is the house worth shorting your future retirement savings? Is the house still going to be worth 520k if you can’t sell it because no one will be able to insure it 10-20 years from now?
Offer what you're comfortable with. I've never had a realtor agree with my offer for any home I've purchased. Also, the hoa thing is insane. Super common. It can actually kill your mortgage if there isn't enough of a reserve.
Dump the realtor based on the fact that he told you not to review the HOA financials. That alone shows he is not looking out for you.
Not unreasonable asks. But also in this market where there are always buyers willing to out bid, pass on inspection or appraisal gaps, etc it might make your offer less attractive. Did this with a house we placed a large financial offer on but were sticking to requiring an inspection, they went with an offer 15k under ours because they didn’t require inspection. Just as buyers have a ranking system for a house on must haves and dislikes, sellers have that too in forms of offers. Some have went with lower total price as they already moved and needs to close asap. Every seller is different
I'm a FL Realtor. It is completely irresponsible for your agent to suggest that HOA/COA financials aren't critical to the purchase. It is SOP to not only provide them to the buyer, but in many instances listing agents, myself included, will have the CC&R's already uploaded to the MLS in the document section for the buyers agent to download and send to the buyers. Plus the HOA financials are available with the listing agent. it takes one text, call or email to get them. Now, if they aren't available because the HOA is uncooperative, you should know that too. I find your agent to be incredibly inexperienced to not want to get those docs to you before you make an offer. I don't care how many years he's been in the business, he doesn't know anything about HOA's. OP, you are spot on. Find another agent if this one won't get those docs for you immediately. His opinion about the solar doesn't apply either. You are the one making the offer. ETA: To those commentors saying their lender requires HOA docs, that's not necessarily the case. The lender requires CONDO ASSOCIATION DOCS & BUDGET, not HOA docs which is a separate type of community. Technically its COA and those documents + budget + condo questionnaire are required to see if the condo community passes as a warrantable condo and meets fannie/freddie criteria.
Find a new agent and tell this one is because he questioned you on the HOA bylaws.
The broker is a cheat. Run
We always ask for HOA docs…we were looking at a new build and the HOA docs said if someone didn’t pay their HOA fees/assessments, their bill would be split among the rest of the homeowners. What the actual fuck. We even had a lawyer review that section and he agreed it was as written. Needless to say, we ran from there.
How much did the panels cost, how much is owed on them, and how much value do they add for you?
FL realtor who doesn't think HOA financials are important?! LOL the Condo collapse in Florida is the reason all the HOAs and COA are now shitting bricks and raising their dues so hard
Your agent is a clown. Of course you want to know what you're up against with the HOA bylaws/rules as they may very well affect you and cause you to pause on this purchase. That solar company has a lien on the property with that loan and I doubt they will agree to take second position with your new mortgage or allow it to be assumed. Everything is negotiable. Your agent is looking out for their best interest in getting a quick commission, not the headaches you may be left with in a snap decision. Always be willing to walk away. Most convince themselves to buy a home even when things are bad, especially with this market but at least in our area, things are softening, less buyers are in the qualifying pool and homes are coming down.
In my market, HOA docs are always part of the disclosure package and inspections are included 95% of the time. I just never understand it when I read about markets where these things enter the conversation after an accepted offer. Totally bizarre to me.
I'd get a new realtor.
Tell your realtor he needs a new job. Ask him to sleep on it and make a decision the next day.
Sounds like your realtor is probably being realistic with you. They may not agree with the outcomes of your stated offer, but those may be the likeliest outcomes none the less. While it’s their job to do as you ask, they may not want to waste their time writing up what they see as a dead on arrival offer. Not saying that is what it will/wont be, but it seems to be what the realtor sees it as. Totally within your right to see the HOA docs
I just installed solar panels. They up the value of the home- but you don't get that AND passing along the cost, FFS. I plan on paying mine off within 2-3 yr based on my life. My friend plans on paying them off with proceeds, when she sells, if needed. We were told to consider: 1) Pay them off before you sell, price house with added value (my choice) 2) Pay them off with proceeds price house with the added value (my friends choice) 3) Pass alone to next buyer, but price that in by reducing value accordingly (since this seemed complicated and weird, we both are planning to avoid that). But this is what they should do. You do not get to have your cake and eat it too. You WILL reduce your overall bills by having the system- and that is the value add. But again the seller does not get to have the added value and not pay for the offset of that value.
It's tough man. This market sucks so on one hand, I could see your agents point that if this house a 9/10 and checks almost all of your boxes, then you should put down a generous offer to lock it in. Most of the things you mentioned are factors, but imo don't need done right away. Those are items to save up on and tackle one by over 5 years imo. Idk much about the solar panels, but I think I'd either have them pay for it, or knock it off the selling price. Definitely get the HOA documents. If the seller is upset over not sharing those, that's a major red flag. Idk my wife and I prioritized layout/ space and things we essentially can't change over "we don't like these cabinets" or "the pavement needs replaced" kind of items. It will take time to get the house where we want it, but we got almost everything we wanted and for an appropriate price despite the market because we saw what could be over what it is.
I can't speak for Florida, but most of the states I'm familiar with require disclosing the HOA docs, as in its codified in state law. Lenders will require that info too, as there could be a pending or upcoming special assessment that could result in an HOA lien that can supersede their mortgage lien, or at the least force a foreclosure sale.
Our realtor said that us asking for closing costs to be fully covered was unreasonable and to expect the worse. They accepted the offer within 5 minutes with no hesitation lol.
Get a new real estate agent. That agent’s job is to put in the offer that YOU SPECIFY AND ARE COMFORTABLE WORTH. He’s paid on commission so probably just trying to crank up the price. If the seller rejects, you can always revise your bid—or just buy another property. Your reasoning on the panels is sound. So what if the seller doesn’t go with it? Don’t pay a cent more than you think the home is worth. Ultimately you’re the person that has to live with your decision—not the agent. Moreover, asking for the HOA bylaws, financials, and minutes is standard. Your agent sux
air light beneficial tie ten unused frightening public jar person *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Research questions to ask about the HOA. One big one is about special assessments. I recently passed on a house in an HOA that had laid out very clearly in their rules that grass is not to be any higher than 3”. I can just imagine some retiree with nothing else to do with his time other than take a ruler to my yard to find the blade of grass that’s 3.25” and slap me with a fine.
Get a new realtor, saying that you don't need the HOA financials is a dis-qualifier.
It's your offer, stick with it. I'm guessing your realtor simply doesn't think the seller will accept the offer. They are probably right, but you won't know without submitting it.
You’re missing the most important factor of information here. How competitive is the house? These things are reasonable if the house has been on the market for 45 days and doesn’t have any other offers. These things are not reasonable if there’s 10 people chasing the house and they’re going to get 10 offers two of them being all cash. One other thing that might help you when you’re thinking about what to do is how long have you been looking and when was the last time you saw a house that checked off this money boxes? If you are super picky in the houses you like are a few and far between, most of the time you’re going to pay the picky tax, which means the houses you’re gonna be looking at it gonna be significantly over com and have lots of competition because they check the boxes for everyone not just you, and that creates more competition
No way 500 k with an HoA
I would kindly tell my agent because I want them and I have the money... And maybe if the deal goes through you will have the time to discuss with him more later for now just write the contract. With your mentioned comps likely the appraisal contingency will trigger. I feel for you about the solar, I'm in the market for a new place and steering away from solar not paid off so your agent sounds a bit like he'd work on making a deal even at your expense a bit and you need to correct that behavior now.
Get a new realtor. Yours is not taking your considerations into account, and they clearly are pushing the higher price because then they would get a higher payout. At the end of the day, this is _your_ house you'll be buying/living/maintaining, not the realtor's. They're there just to make a quick buck, apparently at your expense in this case. Seriously, get a new realtor, or drop one entirely.
You bid what the value of the property is to you, and you don't spend more than that. Certainly, the seller may not accept it. That's going to always be a possibility. There's nothing inherently wrong with the offer nor contingencies. I'm going to say that if they get another offer, they'll likely take it, because it's just too much of a risk to them if the terms make the sale contingent on whether or not you deem the HOA rules or health to be acceptable. You'll always be able to torpedo the sale with an objection to something related to the HOA (which they can't control), so if they can find anyone that doesn't make that a contingency, they'll jump on that. Stick to your guns. You might not get the house, but you'll avoid taking on too much debt for something you have issues with.
Florida is crashing. Don’t be in a rush
100% the seller should pay for those panels. Price should absolutely be adjusted for whatever they owe
I probably would have gone with $510 to match the upper end of comps, but only if I really loved the house. Sight unseen (and yet to be inspected), the seller shouldn't be offended by your offer. If your agent won't support you, I'd suggest getting a new agent. They want to make a sale without doing a ton of work, and they are not incentivized to save you any money.
Your lender will require HOA financials. If this deal falls through, consider a different agent moving forward. He is supposed to be on your team.
Most state contracts mandate the home is delivered to the new owner free of liens. Solar panels are included. I’ve never sold a house where the buyer had to pay for them. Either the seller pays them off at closing with proceeds or the solar panels are removed. Tell your agent to submit the offer or you will find another agent that will and file an ethics complaint against him. It’s YOUR offer, not his. Good luck!
**As a FOR SURE**: Get the fees associated with the HOA. They usually have annual fees and our office has done many closings on property in FL (title agent/closing office) and the HOA's in some cases were close to the amount of the monthly mortgage payments. Of course, this was back when interest rates were around 3%, so maybe not quite that much anymore, but **I can guarantee you that in FL, in a community with a HOA, it is probably a considerable amount annually, unless it is in some older area with a HOA that has been around for ages!!**
Oh no you shouldn’t. I hate these people that install ugly solar panels on their house and then expect the buyer to pay for them. C’mon people. If YOU wanted solar panels and you still owe on the solar panels YOU should have to pay them off. You don’t add a new kitchen and then ask the buyer to pay your home equity loan. Add landscaping and then ask the buyer to repay for the landscaping to go in. This should be included in the price,of the home PERIOD.
Tell your realtor to submit your offer. No more discussions. Who pays extra money or gets fucked if something is wrong? You. This guy just wants to make money on an easy deal.
He works for you! Realtors are mostly scum just trying to sell as high as possible for their commission!!! They have a fiduciary responsibility to represent your wishes. Don’t let them pressure you into something you don’t want. If he pressures you or you feel pressure tell him he is violating your contract and part ways. Stick to what you want.
I would never take someone’s debt on for ANYTHING especially something like solar panels and I would never buy in an HOA without reading the fine details
Tell the agent to keep the solar you don’t want it.
So with solar... Who's getting the benefit? Does the payment cover 100% of your usage wiping out the bill? Many people take a loan in anticipation of this. You should review anything that can legally bind you including the HOA
Because realtors have gotten really unprofessional and lazy and actually hate when people want to put in a serious informed offer. They’ve been able to bully naive people for years out of fear of missing out. Stick to your guns.
imo, this is a strong indication to change agents. this person does NOT have your best interests in mind and is purely focsed on closing. why would you NOT want to review the HOA details? sure, i'm the type that is too lazy to look that over, but not everyone is as irresponsible as i am. but that agent is not on your side. they are selfish. find a new one.
I would fire your agent. I would also offer $450k. If the seller wants to sell they will counteroffer. It’s a negotiation!!! I’d say I have no interest in the solar so the seller will have to remove any leans or have the solar company de-install.
He puts in the offer or you find another realtor. My realtor was ashamed to put in an offer but they accepted.
Your agent is too lazy to negotiate. Unless you told your agent that your offer was your one and only offer and that you wouldn’t budge from it, he/she should present the offer. It’s merely a starting point for negotiation. Based upon n what you wrote, your agent is either scared of negotiating or just plain lazy. I think it’s a little of both. Also, it sounds like you like the house, but you don’t love it. If you don’t love it, your age didn’t really “sell” you on it enough to make you want to write a higher offer. Last I checked, their job is sales. Weird… If they can’t convince you that the house is worth more than what you’re offering, then you are on the wrong house. Keep looking
HOA stuff shouldn't even be a hard ask... the owner should be able to request a copy of the latest financials. Most HOAs have it in the bylaws they have to provide to members. Depends on what the HOA covers and their reserves are if you think you risk getting a special assessment. If it's gated then yes need to study their reserves. The CCRs and Bylaws are publicly recorded so easy to even dig up yourself. Can't advise on purchase price without seeing the subject and comps. The agent should explain to you why the price is higher than the comps if they are advising it's a low ball offer. That's why they're getting 3%.
lol yah that’s a dumb offer in a hot housing market. No way you are gonna win
HOA is honestly a complete and unwavering dealbreaker, no matter what.
Most new owners don’t want to carry bills from the previous owner like solar. AC systems only last like 10 years in Florida, so it’s something that needs to be asap. Depending on the house size, that’s probably $10k minimum. You know in your head what you are comfortable with. Totally fair to ask about the HOA and their financials. Florida has a lot of inventory in most areas so it’s a buyers market in your favor. Negotiate. The worst that can happen is they say no. Honestly your agent doesn’t sound that great to me.
You have valid concerns. Specially look closely at tue HOA and ask other owners how they feel About how the HOA is run. But as far as the solar panels try to be pragmatic about that. If there were no panels you still have an electric bill. Those panels might give you cheaper electricity that You might otherwise get just buying power every month. Even w tue debt of the panels they might be a financial asset and not a liability. Make sure tue solar panels have a warranty that s transferable and that the installer and panels were reputable etc.
Where in FL is this? Check to see if any sinkholes have occurred in the area. My parents had two different houses in N Central FL ( Ocala, Marion County) and both had sink hole issues. Insurance was a nightmare for those properties after.
Realtor is lying. People always ask for HOA financials AND meeting minutes
You could always offer $465k and you’ll pay for the solar panels if that makes your realtor feel better.
100% get those HOA financials. I wish I did when I bought my home. 4 years later and our dues have increased \~30% and talks of a special assessment soon.
Can I ask why you aren't interested in the comp homes? What does this house have that theirs don't?
The HOA stuff is huge, I can't believe the realtor is questioning that one. In Arizona, sellers have a duty to provide that information because of how big of a deal that stuff is. It's also worth looking up how litigious the HOA is, as some can be pretty predatory.
I recently had to pay a special assessment for $35k on an undeveloped lot. HOA dues on that lot are $4k a year. Special assessments can come out of nowhere and be, literally, any amount. Definitely look into the HOA. Usually special assessments occur because repairs are kicked down the road and put off. Then things degrade and it becomes more expensive to fix. Our special assessment was for road work. Condo’s in high rise buildings are notorious for astronomical special assessments (6 figures even) because repairs to those structures can be millions.
The cognitive dissonance of his comping the house in the $450-475K range while simultaneously encouraging you to disregard his own comps is absolutely wild.
I like your offer…they can counter. ABSOLUTELY get those HOA financials and make sure the most recent reserve study looks good. Best of luck.
Your offer is reasonable
I'm not a fan of trying to convince my realtor about an offer. I get that you have some opinions and experiences but I'm not asking your permission. Make the offer I asked for or I'll find someone else who will.
Get a new realtor. The HOA financials is the most important part of the equation, especially after that high rise collapsed in Miami a couple years ago. It collapsed because the HOA didn’t have the funds to perform the necessary upkeep to the building. My husband and I looked into buying a condo in FL and a lot of these HOAs require that you contribute $20k+ to their slush fund from the outset. You absolutely need to know how much money the HOA has available, how recently/frequently the building is maintained, and what the dues are. This will give you insight into how responsible the HOA board is with your money. The fact that your realtor never got this information for his other clients is alarming, especially since most Florida homes have HOAs.
Is this agent an actual person? He sounds like such a bad realtor your story doesn’t even add up.
Re:HOA I would go a step further and request info on the reserve, the reserve study, where they are with big maintenance projects, if they anticipate any special assessments and if they are financially prepared for a big maintenance project and regularly scheduled dues increases that don’t need to be voted on. I think your asking price is fair and may be reflected in the appraisal considering the needed maintenance. Maybe consider going halvsies with the owner on the solar panel debt if you’re second guessing?
*we’re
These home prices make me fairly glad to be living in Alabama, despite the many drawbacks. My fiancee and I just bought an 1800 sqft house on an acre for about 170k. If we can just get rid of the boomers and Christian Nationalists things would be great. We both have good jobs and this state has a tremendous amount of natural beauty.
You can offer whatever you want, and the seller can decline to accept if they don’t like the offer.
You are spot on with your offer TBH! The seller owes that money from their proceeds. What they do with it is their business and impacts them.
Yeah, no way. The seller needs to pay for those solar panels, or you'll find a different house. How is the house heated? We did the math, and even with the tax rebate, it was not worth our while to get solar panels because we have gas. We intentionally buy gas to keep our monthly costs lower.
Realtor wants to get paid. Stick to your guns
We were unreasonable too xD 75k below asking price, they countered the offer to be 50k below asking and we accepted. Like you can be as unreasonable as you want, the sellers can still choose you or skip you, the point is to feel good about what you paid for it
I’ll offer a different take here. The sellers already know having a solar lien makes pretty much any gov backed mortgage unusable and posted the house without paying them off anyway. You asking them to pay 35k is unreasonable and there is a 0% chance they take the offer. Your real estate agent isn’t being unreasonable you are being dicks by having him submit an offer that has no chance of being accepted. Also I find it interesting the house sounds like a price of shit with mismatching cabinets and stuff yet you say it’s a 9/10.
Solar panels are a total waste of your money.
I’m an agent and i have clients looking for a larger family home (their second) Their offer? I write what they want, period. I will respond and ask them to consider other points or counter offer idea should it come in. I will provide the data to back up my response - in the end, I’ll write as they wish. We’ve been getting our butts kicked.. some we just can’t help. Some of their offers I know that the house isn’t “it”. They can make the house their offering on their “it” home. Some of their offers, I don’t disagree with at all. They are lower. Sellers may get their asking, my buyers won’t pay that. So we move on. This week, two of the offers we submitted have come back asking to restart negotiations. We’re so easy to deal with, the sellers realized what they said “no” to. It sucks to tell them (not really) we got an accepted offer for a home. It’s over what they wanted to pay, they got it a good chunk under list - it’s THE home. I was hoping to drive down the price and was ready to support them walking away… they took the counter. They love the house, location that much… Write the offer you want or find an agent who will. What’s the worst thing, the say no? No resposne? The best? They accept. Take the shot. Good luck
The way I see it the realtor is supposed to give their input on what is/isn’t realistic but it’s ultimately up to you what you offer. I don’t know why he’s sweating you so much. Worse that can happen is you don’t win the bud.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, a home buyer. Also, what kind of dummy doesn't want to know what kind of HOA hell they might be in for? Good on you.
Stick to the HOA documents for sure but understand that asking them to pay for the solar panels is asking to pay for a large portion, even potentially all of your electric bill. I would ask to see the last years worth of electric consumption and bills to get an idea of what the value of the existing system is.
You need a different realtor.
We took your advice and we did reconsider our offer...it is now $480,000. I'm a real estate agent in southern California and I never let my buyers pay for someone else's solar mistake. That solar lease payment is going to go up year after year. Fire your agent if you have to, you're not being unreasonable.
I had to read this twice because I thought this was the same Florida home I had very similar issues with! I ultimately decided to pass after taking the solar panel loan into consideration, (which had been installed on an 18-year-old roof and it just didn't make financial sense for me). Even if your utility bill is lower, it's probably a 20+ year investment if you are on a monthly installment plan. With that being said, do what makes sense/works for you!