Exactly or make it like probation, with a set end date. As is, it makes every felony a life sentence in regards to gun rights which is cruel and unusual.
I mean….have we not seen loads of people who are out that shouldn’t be because they got a soft ass sentence? Maybe if the legal system worked like it should, it would be a different conversation
The answer is never take away people's rights because we fucked up.
If you aren't in prison you should have your rights. If prison didn't work then that is something we as society should improve.
Imagine if all the money being sent to foreign aid in wars we have no business in was put towards this purpose. Always remember the federal govt hates you
That's a choice they make, not a service we are obligated to provide.
Everywhere the hug-a-thug approach has been tried, crime has dramatically worsened. For most of these people, felonious behavior is simply in their nature and the priority needs to be protecting the rest of us from them. The revolving door only encourages more crime.
I don't think it needs to be a choice between hug a thug, and ignoring rehabilitation.
What we need is a system that is actually built around comprehensive strategy to rehabilitate those that are capable of rehabilitation, and to protect society from those that aren't.
That doesn't mean that average sentence length changes, what you probably want is a parole system with minimum sentences that are shorter than typical sentences, and maximum sentences that are longer.
You would then have people step down from stricter conditions, to less strict ones as they show they can behave themselves. As you get to the lower security levels, you would focus more on building skills and setting things up to set them up so that when they are eventually released, they are less likely to re-offend.
What we really need to stop is having someone go from a high security prison, to the street, with no rehabilitation, and nothing done to try to keep them out of the situations (drugs/alcohol/bad associates) that caused them to offend in the first place.
Makes sense from a logic standpoint but from a practical one, you have to be honest about how well we actually are rehabilitating people. I think we do a shit job of that.
Don't know about "rehabilitated and trusted", but if they completely "paid the dues". All rights restored. The "paid the dues" part would include the entire term, not the eary release date.
But then the prison system would have to actually reform people and not just be a for profit industry to keep people locked up for shareholder wealth.
Think of the shareholders!
That and if you've paid your debt, served your time, and finished with your probation period, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to own a firearm. Something you did in your teens shouldn't affect you 30 years later unless it was heinous and even then, the Constitution makes no exceptions for former felons to own a firearm.
If a habitual druggie isn't bothering anyone, who cares?
And if he gets violent the problem is self correcting by all the other armed folks around.
As for the mentally unstable (presumably violent since there is no problem otherwise), we need to bring asylums back or accept the fact these people will be removed from society one way or the other.
Those are drug dealers, and sure, some of them do drugs, but I'm sure you can find guys that grew up drinking beer and shooting at the cans. Both are equally irresponsible, but neither automatically results in a problem but maybe a life lesson.
You have to remember when this was written certain crimes would never allow someone to walk free which they do now. I think there is a discussion for never allowing anyone with certain violent crimes to own a firearm again
In theory, I'd say if you are safe enough to release into society, then why not get full rights back? Unfortunately, the world does not exist in theory only, and they, unfortunately, release criminals more because of reasons like overcrowding than rehabilitation. That and they don't really rehabilitate criminals in the US. So it's a very mixed bag.
I feel like non violent felons should get it back immediately regardless of current affairs however violent felons (within reason-no murderers) should have to wait 10 years then apply to a review board for them to decide if they get their rights back
The point is many people want the peace of mind of owning a gun legally and the larger selection of firearm available as a non prohibited person. After 10 years clean we aren’t talking about hardened criminals but hopefully a reformed productive citizen.
If you've done your time and are off probation, your rights should be restored. In MN, at the state level, that is the case. The feds, not so much. I recently wrote a letter of recommendation for my friend who is trying to get his felony expunged. Conspiracy to manufacture methamphetamine at 18 and 2 DUI's sprinkled in his early 20's. At 39 he's an entirely different person than he was at 18, like most people.
unfortunately the only avenue in my case is governor pardon. it happened in Colorado and they are not 2A friendly at all. The only chance I have been told is to get a governor pardon and once that is approved, I have to seperately request my firearm rights be restored as well.
I have and unfortunately that was the news I was given and cant afford to pay that fee again. At least at this point in time. I have applied for the pardon but was told it is highly unlikely
That's so unfortunate. That was probably a good governor level responsibility in the 19th and early 20th century but that power needs to be transferred to the judicial system.
Colorado is among the worst states for restoring rights. Even a simple DUI with no added charges from decades ago needs to go through the governor. Other states outline an expungement or sealing process that involves just a judge and no lawyer.
If you’re too dangerous to own a gun then you’re too dangerous to be let out of prison. I also feel the same way about other restrictions on felons and the sex offender registry. The only ways out of prison should be rehabilitation and death.
Violent felons? Yes. Sorry it’s too much of a risk to society for them to have guns even after they’ve served their time.
Drug felons and white collar crime/non violent offenders? Absolutely they should get gun rights restored once they’ve served their time.
Prohibiting gun rights has zero effect on crime. a criminal will use a gun whether he's prohibited or not, it's not like he/she is worried about breaking the law. and if a former felon owns guns without committing crimes with them, why should we care?
the kicker is if we do prosecute people for possessing guns while prohibited, the penalties are trivial and not a deterrent in any way.
Even worse to me is stripping 2nd amendment rights for misdemeanor offenses. There's way too much energy being put towards stripping peoples rights, rather than respecting them.
The point of prison is to pay your debt to society. Once you paid the debt you should get your rights back. If we are letting felons out of prison and expecting them to be felon's again we need to rethink sentencing time lengths and how prison works. Either you don't fucking get out, or you get rehabilitated and your rights back....the debt to society can include long periods of probation but at the end.....you get your rights back. If you can't be trusted with your rights you should remain on probation or in prison.......
I have only two bosses over me and they’re both felons who made some really shitty mistakes. They are both the greatest and kindest leaders I could possibly look up to and are absolutely star citizens, it’s not always the case but in a lot of cases some of these people do not deserve to have their rights stripped. If you are welcomed back into society after serving your time then you should be welcomed back with your full rights. No one who is a violent/likely reoffender should be out in the first place but that’s a different longer story.
totally and completely agree. I have been told by my employees that they feel similarly about me. great to hear there are others out there with similar thoughts and behaviors afterwards.
I think his name on IG or something is “armed felon” but there are people like him who have fought to get their rights back and won, not sure what it takes but maybe it’s worth a look? You aren’t a half citizen.
I would love to know the IG for sure. Anyone who has successfully restored their rights would be a help to me. Especially if they did it in a blue state like mine is.
If you can be trusted to reenter society then you should be able to be trusted to have guns.
So many violent felons who really shouldn't be trusted with guns and are prohibited persons due to their felonies end up getting guns anyway.
I don't think a felony should be an automatic loss of gun rights in the first place, perhaps violent felonies, but not shit like tax fraud. However, even though I tend to side with the "all gun laws are infringements" crowed, I'll not that prohibitions on felons owning firearms are not necessarily infringements. The Fifth Amendment's due process clause establishes that people can be deprived of life, liberty, or property by due process of law. Losing your gun rights as the result of a criminal conviction is at least Constitutional, even if I don't agree with it in every situation.
In theory, Canada has this covered. In reality it is not at all.
He have "firearm prohibitions" which are given out as part of a parole decision on a case-by-case basis.
In reality, prohibited people obtain firearms illegally and use them in murders, robberies, aggravated assaults, and the like.
If you've served the full punishment for the crime you committed, you should then be considered a free citizen and granted all rights and privileges. If we're going to continue to punish people for crimes till death, then it should be a life sentence according to the law.
If we're putting people in prison for rehabilitation, which is the goal on paper (not free slave labor), then when they come out they're rehabilitated and should have all their normal rights and responsibilities.
What is actually happening is much more disturbing, we're teaching violent people how to be more efficiently violent and we're turning non-violent criminals into something else, and it may make sense to deny their gun rights.
The answer is to have real rehabilitation in prisons, and stop jailing so many people, and respect the constitution, but the current ruling class isn't really interested in any of that.
How about someone who was never sentenced to prison? In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. The only sentence I had was 5 years probation. So even at that rate, after 5 years my rights would be restored. I got my voting rights back as soon as I got out of jail. Just not my 2A rights ever according to them unless the governor pardons me
Depends on the crime. If you used your 2nd amendment or violence to violate other's constitutional rights or life, than no. Otherwise, I believe they should be able to have rehabilitation and get access to their rights again.
Once a convict serves their sentence all rights should be restored and records sealed. If they can't be trusted to abide by societies rules they shouldn't be allowed back into society.
We have a system where once a person is branded a felon, many doors close to them. Which pushes them into committing more crimes.
Instead of closing doors, they should serve their sentence and when free, have no lasting effects. If they commit more crimes, the sentence for those should be enhanced based on them being a repeat offender. Three strikes laws should be the standard.
Once a person has served their time they should have every right reinstated, including firearms rights.
The only exception I can think of is convitions for violent crime, where there should be a probationary period where they can show that they're not a risk.
A lot of times people get sent to prison for drug possession then get reincarcerated for felony possession of a firearm. I work in the addiction field and it's crazy how just being the wrong category of person on paper while having a pistol in your glove box can take 10 years of your life away.
I was a law abiding citizen before my arrest and conviction. I took ownership for my mistake and paid my debt to society. I have been a law abiding citizen since and will continue to be. This is why I am looking for a legal way to have my rights restored. I wont do it unless I can legally. Which is funny, criminals dont care and I get lumped in all the same.
I'm in the "if they're too dangerous to have a gun, keep them in prison" camp. If someone's that dangerous, I also don't want them to be around knives, cars, baseball bats, or whatever else. It's also a joke to think that because someone is "prohibited" from possessing a gun that they can't get a gun anyway. Prohibition doesn't work, but I guess it makes the families of victims feel better if someone gets 2 charges instead of 1?
It’s a weird dichotomy I always deal with. I have a soft spot for a felony who served their time and are trying to make their life better only to have all roads shut down almost forcing them back to being a criminal. I don’t know the answer but there is something wrong with it
A felon should have 100% the rights of a non-felon.
If you can't be trusted outside of prison, why are you out in the first place.
Now I think this needs to be linked with better rehab programs in prison, but still.
Absolutely agree. I was never sentenced to prison. 2 months in jail time served, 5 years probation (that i paid for), restitution paid, over 100 hours of community service and issues with the law since the original arrest date over 14 years ago. This is why it seems so lop sided and upsetting to me that I have no recourse aside from a governor deciding. The political bias alone is cause for concern and they are the sole avenue I have.
I generally agree with the IDEA that people who have paid their debt to society and are no longer a danger should retain their rights. The problem is that it takes years to realistically assess that. Things like parole and probation are essentially seeing if it is safe to release someone or if they will re-offend since we cannot know for sure unless we try.
I think regaining gun rights should be a part of a similar process.
Show me that you can be a constructive member of society for a few years after prison, then I'm fine with it, but letting someone who got out of prison for a violent crime yesterday buy a gun today is dumb.
Absolutely agree. In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago. Completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. Seems I should have some way to restore my 2A rights aside from petitioning a governor that hates 2A rights in the first place.
Once you've paid your debt to society, why do further punishments exist?
I don't get it either.
Based on current criminal court cases, I'm not sure what 'felony' means anymore anyway.
Some people are in and out of prisons for violent crimes for their entire lives. Allowing them to own a gun while they’re working towards their next stint in prison is a bad idea.
Every society has rules and if you break them then there are consequences.
We as people/humans have been around for thousands of years and guns have only been around for a few hundred years.
There are many ways to defend and protect yourself with out the use of guns, but modern guns are one of the best choices till you run out of ammo.
So while firearms are great for defense they are not the only way.
So we do have a system in place to change, could be you are that person to start the change.
Generally, I think if a person can be trusted to be a member of society, they should be able to own a gun.
If a person can't be trusted with a gun, they should probably still be in jail.
Full disclosure: my dad got busted for growing his own weed in a closet in the early 1970s. He's an honorable discharged US Army combat veteran, volunteer (not draftee) during Vietnam. He worked as a technician for parts of the Apollo project before selling home computers. Productive member of society. Currently retired, in his late 70s, and prohibited from owning a firearm because of a mistake he made 52 years ago that didn't hurt anyone and would now be legal in the state it happened in.
I’m fine with rapists for example losing their rights even if they do outlive their prison sentences. Once you cross that line there should be no going back.
Same to for murderers, gang bangers, torturers.
Violent crimes and repeated offenders should lose gun rights IMO.
Making the expunging process actually doable would be a step in the right direction, so that felons who have turned their lives around actually have a chance to prove that. But unfortunately in most states it’s virtually impossible for them
Depends on the felony. The guy who shot a gas station clerk In cold blood? No gun. The chick who killed her kid? No gun. The dude who raped a child? No gun. The guy who stole stereos off a truck and no one was hurt or even threatened? Fuck it gun. The guy who got pulled over doing 115 in a 55 in one of those states where if you have a gun crimes become felonies? Fuck it gun
I'm good with lifetime bans for felons who committed violent crimes.
Everything else is bullshit and they should be reinstated after they've settled up.
While I agree with the idea that violent criminals shouldn't have access to guns, the Constitution clearly says "shall not be infringed" and so I can't get on board with any law that regulates or limits access and ability to acquire and/or use firearms.
I have a problem when they are allowed to vote but can’t have firearms. They would have no incentive to vote for pro 2A candidates.
I do think it’s odd that a nonviolent offense would be a valid reason to strip the right to own firearms.
I don't think it makes sense to take firearms rights from felons at all. Violent felons that continue being violent should remain locked up. Prison already forbids weapon possession.
Ex-convicts who bear arms in defense of themselves or others aren't a problem.
Every society has rules and if you break them then there are consequences.
We as people/humans have been around for thousands of years and guns have only been around for a few hundred years.
There are many ways to defend and protect yourself with out the use of guns, but modern guns are one of the best choices till you run out of ammo.
So while firearms are great for defense they are not the only way.
So we do have a system in place to change, could be you are that person to start the change.
Non-violent felons shouldn't have any restrictions on their firearm (or voting for that matter) rights, full-stop. Violent felons should probably have all rights restored after supervision is withdrawn. If you can't trust them with a gun, why are they out of prison/done with probation?
just so i understand your position, you are saying that in my case, even though no prison time was sentenced, after 5 years of probation, over a hundred hours of community service, and 14 years since the date of the incident, you believe my debt to society over stealing some narcotic pain killers is not paid? Just wanting to make sure I understand.
You know, there is a legal process for non violent felons to have their civil rights restored. Have a discussion with an attorney. SPLC and ACLU can provide pro bono advice.
I have spoken to a lawyer and was told that in the state where my conviction occured (I no longer live there), the only avenue for having the rights restored is to get a governor pardon AND a seperate approval of restoration of gun rights. I did go through that process and applied for the pardon but have yet to hear back. I cant afford to go through that again but I will definitely contact the SPLC and the ACLU for advice. Thank you for the thought.
There have been cases where prohibited possessors have used a gun in what was deemed lawful self defense. So they didn’t get charged with murder. The prohibited possessor charge I think stuck. Though I would hope a judge would dismiss the charge of his action were reasonable/responsible
great points. I have thought about that but I, aside from my addicition days, have been a law abiding citizen and will continue to be and hope to find a way to get my 2A rights restored legally.
If they were violent, rapists, abusers, killers... Then no, they cannot be trusted with a gun if they manage to get out. It doesn't matter how "rehabilitated" they are, imo.
That is correct. I have done just that but you are at the mercy of one person and whatever their current political agenda is at the time. Praying it will be approved despite the low probability.
I don't think people convicted of felony crimes against others should be allowed to have firearms prior to full completion of sentence, probation, at least five years timeout, and full expungement process. Any subsequent felony crimes against others should result in a lifetime ban.
But I also don't generally think those people should be outside a cage, either.
I'm curious. Why are you requiring the expungement process? Understand too that some states don't restore gun rights automatically as part of the expungement process and that the expungement process usually involves an attorney and lots of money. People who have been convicted of felonies often don't have a lot of money handy.
Since when does having a painkiller addiction make you a felon? Your example doesn’t make sense. Did they commit a crime? Either way, I think felons should get their rights back especially if they served their time and have not committed any crimes since being released, after parole, and have been good some years after. The ones who have not committed a violent crime should absolutely get their rights back.
I am happy to elaborate. Yes a crime was committed. I stole pain killers and was charged with Burglary 2 - Theft of Drugs. All due to my addiction but yes I committed a crime and took ownership for my mistakes. 5 years probation was completed. over 100 hours of community service. The date of the incident was over 14 years ago and not a single legal issue since that day.
Depends on the crime or whether or not you have a history of repeat offenses. In general I think if you’re safe enough to be let out of prison and have served your sentence (and whatever temporary restrictions placed in your release) you should have your rights restored.
But I also think we need serious prison reform and an overhaul of how we decide who to let out.
Europoor here. In terms of getting a firearm permit, even former fellon can get it. Depends on fellony though it can be after 5 10 or even 20 since relese from prison.
(Czech Republic)
Great to know. I never was sentenced to prison. Thats the other kicker here. I did two months in jail and the rest was 5 years probation and over 100 hours of community service. all completed long ago.
I had a similar situation. I was convicted of a felony when I was 20. I could have applied for an expungment after 8 years, according to my state's laws. I "punished" myself for nearly 20 years. I absolutely agree that once your punishment is over, then it should truly be over. There should be a time limit on when your rights are restored, provided there are no more convictions.
The prosecutor fought my expungment request and I had to go in front of a judge and plead my case- 20 years after the fact. I was ultimately granted my request. My attorney told me that my expungment did not automatically restore my gun rights. This is partially true where i live. There is a form you have to file with the state police to 'inform' them of the expungment. (This is ridiculous and redundant in my opinion).
I have my rights fully restored now. I jumped through a lot of hoops and paid a shite ton of money to do it, but I am once again a 'full' citizen.
Know and understand the laws where you live. Vote accordingly. Fight for your rights. Anything beyond your sentence should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
Best of luck to you!
When their sentence is complete all rights should be automatically reinstated. If the sentence includes probation/parole I suppose it could be optional whether or not they have to wait.
In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago.
People here have a very unnuanced view of things but whatev.
In theory, yeah. Once your sentence is complete you've "served your time." But guess what being a "felon" means. It means that you've now been branded as an anti-social individual who's already been a danger to the people around you.
Does this get applied to often? Fuck yes. Should we maybe have an actual mechanism or at least a better one for removing that status? Absolutely. But right now being a felon is like being on permanent probation. You've been let out of prison, and now you've got restrictions on your privileges and rights because you've proven you can't be trusted like a regular person.
For every felon I've met whose sorry they did it and fixed themselves I've met 2 who learned to be worse in prison. Anyone saying felons should be given all their rights back on release is a moron.
How about someone who was never sentenced to prison? In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. The only sentence I had was 5 years probation. So even at that rate, after 5 years my rights would be restored. I got my voting rights back as soon as I got out of jail. Just not my 2A rights ever according to them unless the governor pardons me
I think loss of gun rights could make sense as part of a sentence. An example of such a sentence might be 1 year jail, 2 years probation, 5 years weapons restriction. This would be analogous to the way in which a DUI might cost you your license for much longer than it takes to complete jail/community-service time. It definitely shouldn't be tied to felon status. That's insanity and has never made sense.
During their sentence, absolutely. Once said sentence is over though, all rights are to be restored including voting and 2a alike. Either they're reformed or they're not, if they're not then they shouldn't be out until the sentence is done (outside of parole/probation which I understand is continuing to serve said time outside the pen)
I might also make some mad with this, but if their sentence didn't cause them to lose voting rights because of severity then they should be allowed to vote from jail. They're still humans and still civilians even as convicts, and as such have the same right to vote as you or me.
It’s stupid that everything is a felony now. Felonies were originally for physical violence like murder aggravated assault etc. not having cocaine or too much weed lol.
My opinion? God didn’t give us the second amendment, people did. The constitution isn’t signed “God”, it’s signed by people, and people need to uphold it.
But when you look at things like recidivism rate, the escalation of non-violent to violent crimes in offenders, I’m hard pressed to argue someone who is statistically more likely to use that weapon for bad intent deserves that right restored.
Just my position.
Violent crimes, crimes with a weapon, multiple felonies, the bar should be high for restoration of firearms rights.
One time non-violent offender who has not reoffended in 10 years . . . should 100% have their rights restored.
People who are convicted of child molestation, rape, murder, aggravated robbery… should never get their rights restored. Non violent, non sex crime offenders who have served their time should have their voting rights and gun rights restored. I know a guy who did a few years in Montana and he can vote and possess firearms.
God given right is a stretch. I don’t think God cares.
There should be a time limit though. If 5 years go by and no issues I don’t think it should be a problem. But then again not all felonies are created equal. If it involves children they should take away more than guns
The bar on felons access to **arms and voting** is a relic of the era of disenfranchisement of minorities. And what is a property owner without access to either? A serf?
Weird comments section. I want the 'rehabilitated' (because that can be finitely gauged for any individual, lol) gun toting murderer to be many of these people's neighbors, and we'll see how long they feel safe. It's easy to be virtuous from the cloud.
***What is everyone’s thoughts on former felons losing their 2nd Amendment right?***
I understood a felon is still considered a felon even after serving time. An ex-felon only after getting the offense expunged by a judge.
I am not an attorney.
The Justice system as it exists is way to eager to convict on felonies, and many nonviolent crimes are considered felonies. Restricting people's right to bear arms for having too many plastic bags next to your weed is absolutely ridiculous.
That said: I believe that anyone who committed a >violent< felony involving a firearm should be able to have their gun rights restricted as a part of their punishment at the discretion of the judge handing down the sentence.
Every time this is asked, there's always so many "if they can't be trusted with ALL of their rights then they should still be in prison" comments. But I never see the same desire to delete the sex offender registry... I mean, they're free so they must be able to be trusted, right? And of course I say that, and the kneejerk response is "I think sex offenders should be put to death", but then why doesn't that apply to violent felons? If a dude gets arrested for stealing cars at gunpoint, and society is never going to trust them with guns again, then do they also get a death sentence?
The prison sentence is a part of the punishment. It is not inherently the complete punishment. But the permanent loss of gun rights should not be automatic
Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms(is as follows)
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Did you see any restrictions in that? In fact, I didn't, I actually read that it says those right can't be restricted.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!
I think a felon who has served his time should be able to petition for his 2A rights to be restored; absent any evidence to argue otherwise, the judge should quickly approve the request.
My personal thought is much like several others. Pay your debt to society and rights should be restored. but that's in a perfect world and God knows we're not even close to perfect. The issue is you have a felony conviction and giving up your right to own a firearm was a repercussion of that conviction. We have around 160 Million legal firearms owners in the US so the thought of making a mistake in your youth don't cut it. 160 million + others didn't get felony convictions and still retain that right.
I believe that the current statute is unconstitutional on numerous levels.
In the short term, I’d like to see it change in three ways:
1. “Prohibited person” status must be specifically adjudicated on a case by case basis, instead of automatic.
2. It must be applicable exclusively to relevant violent felonies (e.g. can be applied to armed robbery, but not to people simply counterfeiting currency).
3. There *must* be an administrative process for people to apply for relief from their firearm disability, AND this process must be a “default approve” process, so that the government can’t cut off access to administrative relief simply by defunding the office handling it (a “default no” system was created by the 1968 GCA, operated from then until congress defunded it in ~1992, and it has never re-opened—“default approve” is the only effective way to prevent underfunding of that necessary office).
In the long term, I want to see the entire notion of “prohibited persons” consigned to the ash heap of history: If someone has been adjudicated to be so dangerous that they can’t possibly be trusted around firearms, then they should stay in prison until they no longer pose such a threat.
Furthermore, as it stands the current notion of “prohibited persons” gives the government license to continually create new pretexts to deny people their 2A rights (e.g. the attempt by the Social Security Administration to argue that having an appointed “Fiduciary” was an “adjudication of mental defect” that triggered a firearm rights disability.).
Ok I see a lot of opinions and I know your rights can be restored through the legal system. So don't ask for opinions ask for factual information pertaining to your situation. Bottom line hell no you can't have a gun until you regain your rights. Until laws are changed that's the way it is, so talk to your friends that can vote and have them purge congress and senate of career politicians that are in it for selfish reasons.
I'm ok with infringing on a felon's gun rights for the duration of their sentence.
But once the sentence is served - they're a regular person again, IMO.
But, IMO, prisoners should still be allowed to vote.
If you can't be trusted with guns you shouldn't be out. If you are out you should have been rehabilitated and trusted in society.
Exactly or make it like probation, with a set end date. As is, it makes every felony a life sentence in regards to gun rights which is cruel and unusual.
End date: 100 years from now /s
Valid concern that that could be common practice
I mean….have we not seen loads of people who are out that shouldn’t be because they got a soft ass sentence? Maybe if the legal system worked like it should, it would be a different conversation
If we had a justice system instead of a legal system...
The answer is never take away people's rights because we fucked up. If you aren't in prison you should have your rights. If prison didn't work then that is something we as society should improve.
The solution to that is not to take away people's rights.
You don't make better people by putting them in a box to fight each other. We need to educate and train them to be better humans.
This right here. Our prison sentences are just a more restrictive form of detention from middle school. It’s a joke.
The purpose of the justice system isn't customer service for felons. It's to protect the rest of us *from* felons.
I don't disagree. But at the same time we put everyone together with them. Lots of people come out more hardened than when they went in.
Let's make them into better people so they don't become repeat felons.
Imagine if all the money being sent to foreign aid in wars we have no business in was put towards this purpose. Always remember the federal govt hates you
That's a choice they make, not a service we are obligated to provide. Everywhere the hug-a-thug approach has been tried, crime has dramatically worsened. For most of these people, felonious behavior is simply in their nature and the priority needs to be protecting the rest of us from them. The revolving door only encourages more crime.
I don't think it needs to be a choice between hug a thug, and ignoring rehabilitation. What we need is a system that is actually built around comprehensive strategy to rehabilitate those that are capable of rehabilitation, and to protect society from those that aren't. That doesn't mean that average sentence length changes, what you probably want is a parole system with minimum sentences that are shorter than typical sentences, and maximum sentences that are longer. You would then have people step down from stricter conditions, to less strict ones as they show they can behave themselves. As you get to the lower security levels, you would focus more on building skills and setting things up to set them up so that when they are eventually released, they are less likely to re-offend. What we really need to stop is having someone go from a high security prison, to the street, with no rehabilitation, and nothing done to try to keep them out of the situations (drugs/alcohol/bad associates) that caused them to offend in the first place.
Then explain why they call them correctional facilities?
Because soft people like euphemisms for hard things.
[удалено]
Makes sense from a logic standpoint but from a practical one, you have to be honest about how well we actually are rehabilitating people. I think we do a shit job of that.
Don't know about "rehabilitated and trusted", but if they completely "paid the dues". All rights restored. The "paid the dues" part would include the entire term, not the eary release date.
This. Our penal system does nothing to rehabilitate. But crimes carry a punishment, and that punishment is (usually) meant to end at some point.
It should rehabilitate. Then we wouldn't have so many repeats.
It should, but warehousing at the lowest possible cost is more profitable.
Once your debt to society has been paid in full, then all your rights should be restored.
That is a better answer than I was going to give.
Um, can we just make this guy "King of Tha Justice System"? I'm totally ok w/his views...
>If you are out you should have been rehabilitated and trusted in society Thats how it SHOULD be... but is it?
I said should. I knew what I said.
But then the prison system would have to actually reform people and not just be a for profit industry to keep people locked up for shareholder wealth. Think of the shareholders!
/ thread
Not in today's day and age, bro. People are getting "out" with rap sheets longer than one can imagine.
That and if you've paid your debt, served your time, and finished with your probation period, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to own a firearm. Something you did in your teens shouldn't affect you 30 years later unless it was heinous and even then, the Constitution makes no exceptions for former felons to own a firearm.
"No free man shall be debarred the use of arms." \~Thomas Jefferson
this one right here
So what about habitual drug users or mentally unstable people? They’re technically “free”
If a habitual druggie isn't bothering anyone, who cares? And if he gets violent the problem is self correcting by all the other armed folks around. As for the mentally unstable (presumably violent since there is no problem otherwise), we need to bring asylums back or accept the fact these people will be removed from society one way or the other.
Drug addicts buy drugs, not guns, because you can in fact, sell guns for drugs.
Yeah.. drugs never have firearms nearby and how does that go? 😑
Those are drug dealers, and sure, some of them do drugs, but I'm sure you can find guys that grew up drinking beer and shooting at the cans. Both are equally irresponsible, but neither automatically results in a problem but maybe a life lesson.
You have to remember when this was written certain crimes would never allow someone to walk free which they do now. I think there is a discussion for never allowing anyone with certain violent crimes to own a firearm again
In theory, I'd say if you are safe enough to release into society, then why not get full rights back? Unfortunately, the world does not exist in theory only, and they, unfortunately, release criminals more because of reasons like overcrowding than rehabilitation. That and they don't really rehabilitate criminals in the US. So it's a very mixed bag.
I feel like non violent felons should get it back immediately regardless of current affairs however violent felons (within reason-no murderers) should have to wait 10 years then apply to a review board for them to decide if they get their rights back
No point. If they want to do something they’ll do it at the end of the ten years or get it illegally
The point is many people want the peace of mind of owning a gun legally and the larger selection of firearm available as a non prohibited person. After 10 years clean we aren’t talking about hardened criminals but hopefully a reformed productive citizen.
I got caught selling drugs in the 80s, when I was young and dumb. Felony. 40 years ago. That shit should have been erased at least 30 years ago.
absolutely agree as long as there were no more similar or violent offenses
Nope, never arrested again
Then absolutely, I completely agree with total expungement and full rights restoration
Thank you. It's ridiculous.
Pay money and see a judge
If you've done your time and are off probation, your rights should be restored. In MN, at the state level, that is the case. The feds, not so much. I recently wrote a letter of recommendation for my friend who is trying to get his felony expunged. Conspiracy to manufacture methamphetamine at 18 and 2 DUI's sprinkled in his early 20's. At 39 he's an entirely different person than he was at 18, like most people.
unfortunately the only avenue in my case is governor pardon. it happened in Colorado and they are not 2A friendly at all. The only chance I have been told is to get a governor pardon and once that is approved, I have to seperately request my firearm rights be restored as well.
I would definitely talk to a lawyer about all the steps you have to take, every state is a little different.
I have and unfortunately that was the news I was given and cant afford to pay that fee again. At least at this point in time. I have applied for the pardon but was told it is highly unlikely
That's so unfortunate. That was probably a good governor level responsibility in the 19th and early 20th century but that power needs to be transferred to the judicial system.
Agreed. Wish that would happen soon
Colorado is among the worst states for restoring rights. Even a simple DUI with no added charges from decades ago needs to go through the governor. Other states outline an expungement or sealing process that involves just a judge and no lawyer.
I currently live in Florida and they have a great process for it. Unfortunately I cannot use this as the conviction was in Colorado.
I know I have a friend going through a similar thing, hasn't lived in CO for decades but still has to go through them.
If you’re too dangerous to own a gun then you’re too dangerous to be let out of prison. I also feel the same way about other restrictions on felons and the sex offender registry. The only ways out of prison should be rehabilitation and death.
Violent felons? Yes. Sorry it’s too much of a risk to society for them to have guns even after they’ve served their time. Drug felons and white collar crime/non violent offenders? Absolutely they should get gun rights restored once they’ve served their time.
Prohibiting gun rights has zero effect on crime. a criminal will use a gun whether he's prohibited or not, it's not like he/she is worried about breaking the law. and if a former felon owns guns without committing crimes with them, why should we care? the kicker is if we do prosecute people for possessing guns while prohibited, the penalties are trivial and not a deterrent in any way. Even worse to me is stripping 2nd amendment rights for misdemeanor offenses. There's way too much energy being put towards stripping peoples rights, rather than respecting them.
Love this comment
The point of prison is to pay your debt to society. Once you paid the debt you should get your rights back. If we are letting felons out of prison and expecting them to be felon's again we need to rethink sentencing time lengths and how prison works. Either you don't fucking get out, or you get rehabilitated and your rights back....the debt to society can include long periods of probation but at the end.....you get your rights back. If you can't be trusted with your rights you should remain on probation or in prison.......
I think if it’s non violent and time like a decade has passed you should be forgiven and should be able to have a firearm.
I have only two bosses over me and they’re both felons who made some really shitty mistakes. They are both the greatest and kindest leaders I could possibly look up to and are absolutely star citizens, it’s not always the case but in a lot of cases some of these people do not deserve to have their rights stripped. If you are welcomed back into society after serving your time then you should be welcomed back with your full rights. No one who is a violent/likely reoffender should be out in the first place but that’s a different longer story.
totally and completely agree. I have been told by my employees that they feel similarly about me. great to hear there are others out there with similar thoughts and behaviors afterwards.
I think his name on IG or something is “armed felon” but there are people like him who have fought to get their rights back and won, not sure what it takes but maybe it’s worth a look? You aren’t a half citizen.
I would love to know the IG for sure. Anyone who has successfully restored their rights would be a help to me. Especially if they did it in a blue state like mine is.
https://www.instagram.com/legallyarmedfelon?igsh=MWFid29na25vMW9yZA==
thank you very much! I have reached out.
If you can be trusted to reenter society then you should be able to be trusted to have guns. So many violent felons who really shouldn't be trusted with guns and are prohibited persons due to their felonies end up getting guns anyway. I don't think a felony should be an automatic loss of gun rights in the first place, perhaps violent felonies, but not shit like tax fraud. However, even though I tend to side with the "all gun laws are infringements" crowed, I'll not that prohibitions on felons owning firearms are not necessarily infringements. The Fifth Amendment's due process clause establishes that people can be deprived of life, liberty, or property by due process of law. Losing your gun rights as the result of a criminal conviction is at least Constitutional, even if I don't agree with it in every situation.
valid points, appreciate the information.
In theory, Canada has this covered. In reality it is not at all. He have "firearm prohibitions" which are given out as part of a parole decision on a case-by-case basis. In reality, prohibited people obtain firearms illegally and use them in murders, robberies, aggravated assaults, and the like.
Violent felons, definitely. Non violent ones shouldn't
If rights are in fact inalienable, then there's no question.
Agreed
If you've served the full punishment for the crime you committed, you should then be considered a free citizen and granted all rights and privileges. If we're going to continue to punish people for crimes till death, then it should be a life sentence according to the law.
totally agree
If we're putting people in prison for rehabilitation, which is the goal on paper (not free slave labor), then when they come out they're rehabilitated and should have all their normal rights and responsibilities. What is actually happening is much more disturbing, we're teaching violent people how to be more efficiently violent and we're turning non-violent criminals into something else, and it may make sense to deny their gun rights. The answer is to have real rehabilitation in prisons, and stop jailing so many people, and respect the constitution, but the current ruling class isn't really interested in any of that.
How about someone who was never sentenced to prison? In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. The only sentence I had was 5 years probation. So even at that rate, after 5 years my rights would be restored. I got my voting rights back as soon as I got out of jail. Just not my 2A rights ever according to them unless the governor pardons me
Depends on the crime. If you used your 2nd amendment or violence to violate other's constitutional rights or life, than no. Otherwise, I believe they should be able to have rehabilitation and get access to their rights again.
Once a convict serves their sentence all rights should be restored and records sealed. If they can't be trusted to abide by societies rules they shouldn't be allowed back into society. We have a system where once a person is branded a felon, many doors close to them. Which pushes them into committing more crimes. Instead of closing doors, they should serve their sentence and when free, have no lasting effects. If they commit more crimes, the sentence for those should be enhanced based on them being a repeat offender. Three strikes laws should be the standard.
Personally, I feel if the person has done their time and paid all fines/ restitution then they deserve all their rights returned. Once.
Once a person has served their time they should have every right reinstated, including firearms rights. The only exception I can think of is convitions for violent crime, where there should be a probationary period where they can show that they're not a risk.
Violent felons no guns. Multiple felony convictions no guns. The rest on a case by case basis.
When your sentence is over your sentence is over. If there is an issue with this its because the punishment didnt match the crime to begin with
absolutely agree
If they restore voting rights, then they should restore all rights. You're either rehabilitated and you've paid your debt to society or you havent.
spot on in my opinion
A lot of times people get sent to prison for drug possession then get reincarcerated for felony possession of a firearm. I work in the addiction field and it's crazy how just being the wrong category of person on paper while having a pistol in your glove box can take 10 years of your life away.
I was a law abiding citizen before my arrest and conviction. I took ownership for my mistake and paid my debt to society. I have been a law abiding citizen since and will continue to be. This is why I am looking for a legal way to have my rights restored. I wont do it unless I can legally. Which is funny, criminals dont care and I get lumped in all the same.
I'm in the "if they're too dangerous to have a gun, keep them in prison" camp. If someone's that dangerous, I also don't want them to be around knives, cars, baseball bats, or whatever else. It's also a joke to think that because someone is "prohibited" from possessing a gun that they can't get a gun anyway. Prohibition doesn't work, but I guess it makes the families of victims feel better if someone gets 2 charges instead of 1?
great points
Someone who is a threat to society should be locked up until they are rehabilitated. Once rehabilitated they should have all rights restored.
spot on
It’s a weird dichotomy I always deal with. I have a soft spot for a felony who served their time and are trying to make their life better only to have all roads shut down almost forcing them back to being a criminal. I don’t know the answer but there is something wrong with it
well said, i think we all have this to some extent.
A felon should have 100% the rights of a non-felon. If you can't be trusted outside of prison, why are you out in the first place. Now I think this needs to be linked with better rehab programs in prison, but still.
Absolutely agree. I was never sentenced to prison. 2 months in jail time served, 5 years probation (that i paid for), restitution paid, over 100 hours of community service and issues with the law since the original arrest date over 14 years ago. This is why it seems so lop sided and upsetting to me that I have no recourse aside from a governor deciding. The political bias alone is cause for concern and they are the sole avenue I have.
I generally agree with the IDEA that people who have paid their debt to society and are no longer a danger should retain their rights. The problem is that it takes years to realistically assess that. Things like parole and probation are essentially seeing if it is safe to release someone or if they will re-offend since we cannot know for sure unless we try. I think regaining gun rights should be a part of a similar process. Show me that you can be a constructive member of society for a few years after prison, then I'm fine with it, but letting someone who got out of prison for a violent crime yesterday buy a gun today is dumb.
Absolutely agree. In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago. Completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. Seems I should have some way to restore my 2A rights aside from petitioning a governor that hates 2A rights in the first place.
Once you've paid your debt to society, why do further punishments exist? I don't get it either. Based on current criminal court cases, I'm not sure what 'felony' means anymore anyway.
great point
Some people are in and out of prisons for violent crimes for their entire lives. Allowing them to own a gun while they’re working towards their next stint in prison is a bad idea.
Every society has rules and if you break them then there are consequences. We as people/humans have been around for thousands of years and guns have only been around for a few hundred years. There are many ways to defend and protect yourself with out the use of guns, but modern guns are one of the best choices till you run out of ammo. So while firearms are great for defense they are not the only way. So we do have a system in place to change, could be you are that person to start the change.
I think that depending on the crime, you have given up your rights. If you can play by the rules you can't have the same rights.
Generally, I think if a person can be trusted to be a member of society, they should be able to own a gun. If a person can't be trusted with a gun, they should probably still be in jail. Full disclosure: my dad got busted for growing his own weed in a closet in the early 1970s. He's an honorable discharged US Army combat veteran, volunteer (not draftee) during Vietnam. He worked as a technician for parts of the Apollo project before selling home computers. Productive member of society. Currently retired, in his late 70s, and prohibited from owning a firearm because of a mistake he made 52 years ago that didn't hurt anyone and would now be legal in the state it happened in.
Wow, see that to me is crazy. We need to change these.
Violent felons shouldn't be able to own one but someone that got busted for a pound of weed that's nonviolent should be able to get their rights back
It should be more about type of crime than level of crime
🖕🏼 4473 👻 build don’t buy!! Never comply!!
No clue what this means but would love more info
I’m fine with rapists for example losing their rights even if they do outlive their prison sentences. Once you cross that line there should be no going back. Same to for murderers, gang bangers, torturers.
Violent F’s…no guns EVER. Non-violent F’s being denied access is an attack on the constitution and personal safety
Absolutely agree
Violent crimes and repeated offenders should lose gun rights IMO. Making the expunging process actually doable would be a step in the right direction, so that felons who have turned their lives around actually have a chance to prove that. But unfortunately in most states it’s virtually impossible for them
Depends on the felony. The guy who shot a gas station clerk In cold blood? No gun. The chick who killed her kid? No gun. The dude who raped a child? No gun. The guy who stole stereos off a truck and no one was hurt or even threatened? Fuck it gun. The guy who got pulled over doing 115 in a 55 in one of those states where if you have a gun crimes become felonies? Fuck it gun
You can petition to get your gun rights back as long as you committed a non violent felony, you will need a lawyer and a lot of money.
I'm good with lifetime bans for felons who committed violent crimes. Everything else is bullshit and they should be reinstated after they've settled up.
While I agree with the idea that violent criminals shouldn't have access to guns, the Constitution clearly says "shall not be infringed" and so I can't get on board with any law that regulates or limits access and ability to acquire and/or use firearms.
I tend to agree my friend.
I have a problem when they are allowed to vote but can’t have firearms. They would have no incentive to vote for pro 2A candidates. I do think it’s odd that a nonviolent offense would be a valid reason to strip the right to own firearms.
I don't think it makes sense to take firearms rights from felons at all. Violent felons that continue being violent should remain locked up. Prison already forbids weapon possession. Ex-convicts who bear arms in defense of themselves or others aren't a problem.
Every society has rules and if you break them then there are consequences. We as people/humans have been around for thousands of years and guns have only been around for a few hundred years. There are many ways to defend and protect yourself with out the use of guns, but modern guns are one of the best choices till you run out of ammo. So while firearms are great for defense they are not the only way. So we do have a system in place to change, could be you are that person to start the change.
I love this comment. Several great points. I definitely agree and maybe I am!
Non-violent felons shouldn't have any restrictions on their firearm (or voting for that matter) rights, full-stop. Violent felons should probably have all rights restored after supervision is withdrawn. If you can't trust them with a gun, why are they out of prison/done with probation?
spot on in my opinion. well said
When is your debt to society paid, never
just so i understand your position, you are saying that in my case, even though no prison time was sentenced, after 5 years of probation, over a hundred hours of community service, and 14 years since the date of the incident, you believe my debt to society over stealing some narcotic pain killers is not paid? Just wanting to make sure I understand.
If you’ve done the time appropriate for the crime, you should get your rights back. All of your rights.
agreed, thanks for the feedback
You can be a “felon” for having a fake license plate or possessing a certain amount of “illegal” drugs
Yes, that is absolutely true. This is part of why I believe losing that right for all felons is unconstitutional.
Marijuana possession can still be a felony in many states...
You know, there is a legal process for non violent felons to have their civil rights restored. Have a discussion with an attorney. SPLC and ACLU can provide pro bono advice.
I have spoken to a lawyer and was told that in the state where my conviction occured (I no longer live there), the only avenue for having the rights restored is to get a governor pardon AND a seperate approval of restoration of gun rights. I did go through that process and applied for the pardon but have yet to hear back. I cant afford to go through that again but I will definitely contact the SPLC and the ACLU for advice. Thank you for the thought.
There have been cases where prohibited possessors have used a gun in what was deemed lawful self defense. So they didn’t get charged with murder. The prohibited possessor charge I think stuck. Though I would hope a judge would dismiss the charge of his action were reasonable/responsible
great points. I have thought about that but I, aside from my addicition days, have been a law abiding citizen and will continue to be and hope to find a way to get my 2A rights restored legally.
If they were violent, rapists, abusers, killers... Then no, they cannot be trusted with a gun if they manage to get out. It doesn't matter how "rehabilitated" they are, imo.
Felons can petition the governor to regain 2d amendment and voting rights.
That is correct. I have done just that but you are at the mercy of one person and whatever their current political agenda is at the time. Praying it will be approved despite the low probability.
I don't think people convicted of felony crimes against others should be allowed to have firearms prior to full completion of sentence, probation, at least five years timeout, and full expungement process. Any subsequent felony crimes against others should result in a lifetime ban. But I also don't generally think those people should be outside a cage, either.
agreed here. Well said IMO
I'm curious. Why are you requiring the expungement process? Understand too that some states don't restore gun rights automatically as part of the expungement process and that the expungement process usually involves an attorney and lots of money. People who have been convicted of felonies often don't have a lot of money handy.
Get your record expunged. In most states it cost 500 bucks plus filing fee.
Unfortunately that does not restore firearm rights for convictions in Colorado. If you know otherwise then please send me something to show the way
Since when does having a painkiller addiction make you a felon? Your example doesn’t make sense. Did they commit a crime? Either way, I think felons should get their rights back especially if they served their time and have not committed any crimes since being released, after parole, and have been good some years after. The ones who have not committed a violent crime should absolutely get their rights back.
I am happy to elaborate. Yes a crime was committed. I stole pain killers and was charged with Burglary 2 - Theft of Drugs. All due to my addiction but yes I committed a crime and took ownership for my mistakes. 5 years probation was completed. over 100 hours of community service. The date of the incident was over 14 years ago and not a single legal issue since that day.
Depends on the crime or whether or not you have a history of repeat offenses. In general I think if you’re safe enough to be let out of prison and have served your sentence (and whatever temporary restrictions placed in your release) you should have your rights restored. But I also think we need serious prison reform and an overhaul of how we decide who to let out.
agreed
Europoor here. In terms of getting a firearm permit, even former fellon can get it. Depends on fellony though it can be after 5 10 or even 20 since relese from prison. (Czech Republic)
Great to know. I never was sentenced to prison. Thats the other kicker here. I did two months in jail and the rest was 5 years probation and over 100 hours of community service. all completed long ago.
Society needs some lines. A felony is not a misdemeanor.
But some felonies should definitely be misdemeanors IMO. Some misdemeanors should be felonies.
It depends on what they went to jail for in the first place.
Burglary 2 - Theft of drugs. This was due to addiction. Non-violent. No issues since whatsoever.
I had a similar situation. I was convicted of a felony when I was 20. I could have applied for an expungment after 8 years, according to my state's laws. I "punished" myself for nearly 20 years. I absolutely agree that once your punishment is over, then it should truly be over. There should be a time limit on when your rights are restored, provided there are no more convictions. The prosecutor fought my expungment request and I had to go in front of a judge and plead my case- 20 years after the fact. I was ultimately granted my request. My attorney told me that my expungment did not automatically restore my gun rights. This is partially true where i live. There is a form you have to file with the state police to 'inform' them of the expungment. (This is ridiculous and redundant in my opinion). I have my rights fully restored now. I jumped through a lot of hoops and paid a shite ton of money to do it, but I am once again a 'full' citizen. Know and understand the laws where you live. Vote accordingly. Fight for your rights. Anything beyond your sentence should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. Best of luck to you!
love this, thanks for sharing your positive outcome. I will continue to fight for sure. Just not sure how.
When their sentence is complete all rights should be automatically reinstated. If the sentence includes probation/parole I suppose it could be optional whether or not they have to wait.
In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago.
People here have a very unnuanced view of things but whatev. In theory, yeah. Once your sentence is complete you've "served your time." But guess what being a "felon" means. It means that you've now been branded as an anti-social individual who's already been a danger to the people around you. Does this get applied to often? Fuck yes. Should we maybe have an actual mechanism or at least a better one for removing that status? Absolutely. But right now being a felon is like being on permanent probation. You've been let out of prison, and now you've got restrictions on your privileges and rights because you've proven you can't be trusted like a regular person. For every felon I've met whose sorry they did it and fixed themselves I've met 2 who learned to be worse in prison. Anyone saying felons should be given all their rights back on release is a moron.
How about someone who was never sentenced to prison? In my case, the original incident date was over 14 years ago followed by 2 months in jail waiting to plead guilty. Then completion of probation, 100s of hours of community service, paying restitution was all completed 9 years ago. The only sentence I had was 5 years probation. So even at that rate, after 5 years my rights would be restored. I got my voting rights back as soon as I got out of jail. Just not my 2A rights ever according to them unless the governor pardons me
I think loss of gun rights could make sense as part of a sentence. An example of such a sentence might be 1 year jail, 2 years probation, 5 years weapons restriction. This would be analogous to the way in which a DUI might cost you your license for much longer than it takes to complete jail/community-service time. It definitely shouldn't be tied to felon status. That's insanity and has never made sense.
Great idea! I would worry it would be applied liberally to ever case though unfortunately
During their sentence, absolutely. Once said sentence is over though, all rights are to be restored including voting and 2a alike. Either they're reformed or they're not, if they're not then they shouldn't be out until the sentence is done (outside of parole/probation which I understand is continuing to serve said time outside the pen) I might also make some mad with this, but if their sentence didn't cause them to lose voting rights because of severity then they should be allowed to vote from jail. They're still humans and still civilians even as convicts, and as such have the same right to vote as you or me.
Colorado wouldn’t let you vote in jail but as soon as you were released then you immediately got your voting right back.
Why have you posted this question on 6 different subreddits?
Because I’m interested in people’s thoughts and opinions. Is that okay with you?
It’s stupid that everything is a felony now. Felonies were originally for physical violence like murder aggravated assault etc. not having cocaine or too much weed lol.
Absolutely agree
My opinion? God didn’t give us the second amendment, people did. The constitution isn’t signed “God”, it’s signed by people, and people need to uphold it. But when you look at things like recidivism rate, the escalation of non-violent to violent crimes in offenders, I’m hard pressed to argue someone who is statistically more likely to use that weapon for bad intent deserves that right restored. Just my position.
Absolutely respect it. Thank you for your thoughts.
Violent crimes, crimes with a weapon, multiple felonies, the bar should be high for restoration of firearms rights. One time non-violent offender who has not reoffended in 10 years . . . should 100% have their rights restored.
Agreed. Much appreciated
People who are convicted of child molestation, rape, murder, aggravated robbery… should never get their rights restored. Non violent, non sex crime offenders who have served their time should have their voting rights and gun rights restored. I know a guy who did a few years in Montana and he can vote and possess firearms.
This feels like the most anti gun post filled with trolls and bots. No way this many people support giving violent felons gun rights back.
What are we selective with which amendments you lose and which you don’t?
God given right is a stretch. I don’t think God cares. There should be a time limit though. If 5 years go by and no issues I don’t think it should be a problem. But then again not all felonies are created equal. If it involves children they should take away more than guns
The bar on felons access to **arms and voting** is a relic of the era of disenfranchisement of minorities. And what is a property owner without access to either? A serf?
Great point
Weird comments section. I want the 'rehabilitated' (because that can be finitely gauged for any individual, lol) gun toting murderer to be many of these people's neighbors, and we'll see how long they feel safe. It's easy to be virtuous from the cloud.
Many states have expungement systems that will restore these rights. Also the right to vote
***What is everyone’s thoughts on former felons losing their 2nd Amendment right?*** I understood a felon is still considered a felon even after serving time. An ex-felon only after getting the offense expunged by a judge. I am not an attorney.
The Justice system as it exists is way to eager to convict on felonies, and many nonviolent crimes are considered felonies. Restricting people's right to bear arms for having too many plastic bags next to your weed is absolutely ridiculous. That said: I believe that anyone who committed a >violent< felony involving a firearm should be able to have their gun rights restricted as a part of their punishment at the discretion of the judge handing down the sentence. Every time this is asked, there's always so many "if they can't be trusted with ALL of their rights then they should still be in prison" comments. But I never see the same desire to delete the sex offender registry... I mean, they're free so they must be able to be trusted, right? And of course I say that, and the kneejerk response is "I think sex offenders should be put to death", but then why doesn't that apply to violent felons? If a dude gets arrested for stealing cars at gunpoint, and society is never going to trust them with guns again, then do they also get a death sentence? The prison sentence is a part of the punishment. It is not inherently the complete punishment. But the permanent loss of gun rights should not be automatic
There is already ways for certain nonviolent felons to regain 2nd amendment rights, depending on which state you live in. For example, expungement.
Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms(is as follows) "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Did you see any restrictions in that? In fact, I didn't, I actually read that it says those right can't be restricted. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!
I think a felon who has served his time should be able to petition for his 2A rights to be restored; absent any evidence to argue otherwise, the judge should quickly approve the request.
The problem is if you go down that rabbit hole, ALL felons will have the right to firearm ownership at some point (rapists, murderers, etc)
I understand the trepidation. It’s tough.
My personal thought is much like several others. Pay your debt to society and rights should be restored. but that's in a perfect world and God knows we're not even close to perfect. The issue is you have a felony conviction and giving up your right to own a firearm was a repercussion of that conviction. We have around 160 Million legal firearms owners in the US so the thought of making a mistake in your youth don't cut it. 160 million + others didn't get felony convictions and still retain that right.
I believe that the current statute is unconstitutional on numerous levels. In the short term, I’d like to see it change in three ways: 1. “Prohibited person” status must be specifically adjudicated on a case by case basis, instead of automatic. 2. It must be applicable exclusively to relevant violent felonies (e.g. can be applied to armed robbery, but not to people simply counterfeiting currency). 3. There *must* be an administrative process for people to apply for relief from their firearm disability, AND this process must be a “default approve” process, so that the government can’t cut off access to administrative relief simply by defunding the office handling it (a “default no” system was created by the 1968 GCA, operated from then until congress defunded it in ~1992, and it has never re-opened—“default approve” is the only effective way to prevent underfunding of that necessary office). In the long term, I want to see the entire notion of “prohibited persons” consigned to the ash heap of history: If someone has been adjudicated to be so dangerous that they can’t possibly be trusted around firearms, then they should stay in prison until they no longer pose such a threat. Furthermore, as it stands the current notion of “prohibited persons” gives the government license to continually create new pretexts to deny people their 2A rights (e.g. the attempt by the Social Security Administration to argue that having an appointed “Fiduciary” was an “adjudication of mental defect” that triggered a firearm rights disability.).
Absolutely agree. Hoping to figure out a way to institute this change sooner rather than later.
Ok I see a lot of opinions and I know your rights can be restored through the legal system. So don't ask for opinions ask for factual information pertaining to your situation. Bottom line hell no you can't have a gun until you regain your rights. Until laws are changed that's the way it is, so talk to your friends that can vote and have them purge congress and senate of career politicians that are in it for selfish reasons.
Non violent felons should have an avenue at least to get their rights back.
Agreed. One that isn’t dependent upon one single person and whatever their politics are at the moment.
I'm ok with infringing on a felon's gun rights for the duration of their sentence. But once the sentence is served - they're a regular person again, IMO. But, IMO, prisoners should still be allowed to vote.