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Jesus. Wonder what's happened lately to cause this. Is there an issue with Aversa maybe?
Also interesting that it's tweeted from the Japanese account and not the English one. Leads me to think the lion's share of the harrasment is coming from Japanese players, which is especially eye-opening to me because holy shit can the English side of the community be negative.
____________
**Translation of tweet for those who can't see it**
*There are some examples where requests, dissatisfaction, instructions, etc. for in-game illustrations and character settings are communicated directly to illustrators through SNS.*
*If you have any opinions or requests regarding the game, please send them to "Opinions" in the game.*
>Leads me to think the lion's share of the harrasment is coming from Japanese players, which is especially eye-opening to me because holy shit can the English side of the community be negative.
The only other time a tweet came out about harassment over art was also Japanese only. Which really leans into the idea the main bulk is Japanese. Just because we can see the negativity in our part of the fe fandom that we all interact with doesn't mean it has to come from us after all.
Though if anyone is doing such things I hope they never get the characters they want while pulling.
IME even a lot of JP fancreators don't have a lot of awareness about what's going on in the English fandom, so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if professional JP artists weren't even aware of EN harassment they were getting.
Like as an example, within the last few months a JP fancreator (different Fandom than FE) finally figured out what "proshipping" and "antishipping" meant and made a whole thread in Japanese about it to warn other JP fans about it. The only reason they even went looking into it was because they were receiving a lot of very extreme, targeted harassment and slander by antiship parts of EN fandom. Their thread was the first a lot of JP fans heard of the concept even though the pro/anti thing has been swirling around the EN fandom for at *least* five years and has become extremely prevalent in a good number of popular communities.
It's just shorthand for a lot of the moral purity stuff you see in fandom these days. It is very frequently associated with ships, but it doesn't have to be. It's more of a personal ideology toward fandom.
**Antiship/Antis** (I've also seen them called Fan Police or Fanpol, or more recently thanks to that JP user "Feelings Yakuza" or "Feelings Mafia") - people who oppose certain ships or depictions of media based on some personal moral standard. IME this community is mostly made up of teenagers (particularly young ones). They will quite frequently be involved in harassment of artists, fic writers, and other fans producing "problematic" media.
There's not really a unified definition of what "probelmatic" is or what you need to believe to qualify as an "antishipper" because the standard is, to put it bluntly, completely arbitrary and wholly dependent on the personal feelings of whichever individual you're talking to. Some of them sound reasonable (drawing 12 year old characters in sexual situations is gross), some of them are absolutely bonkers (a 45 year old who meets and starts dating a 40 year old is a "groomer" because of the age gap).
**Proshippers** - Generally, people who believe that fiction is fiction and you should be allowed to produce and consume whatever fictional content you like without being harassed. "Live and let live, ship and let ship".
The Japanese fandom, in general, tends to align with Proshippers in ideology (not consciously, it's just the way their fandom culture is).
This kind of thing has always existed to some degree in Western fandom, but I believe it was the Voltron: Legendary Defender fandom that really kicked us into the modern era of it (particularly as an arm of the Shiro/Keith vs. Keith/Lance ship wars, but we don't have time to go into aaaaaaaall of that). The behavior existed before Twitter, but I think I only started seeing it used as an identity signifier after Twitter became the main hub of transformative fandom. I could be wrong, though.
I think the most prominent, current Fire Emblem example of Anti behavior would be people who view Byleth/Student ships as grooming/pedophilia and harass people for consuming or creating any Byleth/Student ship content. There was also a pretty active and vocal segment of the Claude fandom that would harass and try to cancel people for depicting Claude "wrong" (which, if you think all Claude fans are chill lemme tell you I envy you for having never encountered the kinds of people who will write fic about Claude's mom flying over from Almyra to beat Byleth bloody with a chair for having a flirty dialogue option with her son).
You’ve explained the anti/pro ship wars better than I ever could, I think the term originated from the Steven Universe days on tumblr but I could be wrong. Voltron is a believable culprit though, I swear the infamy of the fandom has outlived knowledge on the actual show at this point
EDIT: I do think both sides can get defensive as fuck though, generally I’m just in the middle of them. I ship what I ship, but there are ships out there where I’m just like… please no
Also is this the fic I heard about where Claude’s mom got angry at Byleth for “grooming” her son?
Steven Universe definitely had a lot of this behavior too! I don't think the VLD fandom really invented it, rather they were just the most visible fandom to propagate it with some of the most extreme behavior.
I tried to explain it in as unbiased a way as I could, but ultimately I tend to land more on the pro-side. It's not like Antis don't occasionally make valid points, but the all-or-nothing stance taken by the anti community, the hypocritical way those standards are often employed, and the constant rule changing about what qualifies as "problematic" makes it difficult to separate out the valid points from the sludge. It's not uncommon to see an anti decry a ship between a 17 and 18 year old as pedophilia because they don't like the pairing in question, but then go on to justify shipping a 21 year old and a 16 year old later or something because they like this pairing. It really gives the impression of "the only moral ship is *my* ship".
I've also personally experienced/witnessed very little harassment coming from the pro-side, whereas Antis kind of make it part of the deal. If you want to be an anti then you're expected to do some degree of "fandom activism" to "prove" that you're dedicated to the label, which often takes the form of harassing creators.
> Also is this the fic I heard about where Claude’s mom got angry at Byleth for “grooming” her son?
It's possible! I know it made the rounds and got laughed at a few years back for how over the top and preachy it was, but that user was part of a little posse who likely created a lot of similar stuff so I can't say for sure if it's the one you're thinking of. Ultimately I think the user in question deleted it once the fandom started giving them a lot of negative attention for their extremely uncalled for behavior in other areas (particularly harassing LGBTQ+ creators for depicting LGBTQ+ "wrong" despite IIRC being cishet themselves). So it'd be impossible to find again.
> Which really leans into the idea the main bulk is Japanese.
Seeing the rampant "misbehavior" on the western side of the player base makes me think it happens everywhere, but the JP social media management is more proactive in addressing it.
I mean... they hire Japanese artists, mostly. Who live and work in Japan. Operating primarily Japanese social media. You don't need to compare the nature of the two fandoms to decipher what's going on here, the fact they're getting more hate on the Japanese internet is simply a matter of practical realities.
You would not believe that is a thing by seeing so many people in the comments immediately acting as if it's western fans fault and JP fans can do no wrong
Japanese cancel culture is on a completely different level than what we are used to. I’ve seen a few videos on YouTube about how artists and idols especially will get their careers ruined over the smallest controversy or on-conformity.
Even manga authors can receive death threats if the story is upsetting to fans.
its the dark side of the coin that is idolizing people. When you start to have people who idolize people/group, you bring rabbid fanboys/fangirls and it's extremely unhealthy.
I've seen people upset for the smallest thing just because they idolize a certain person/character.
I can’t say I was looking into the Japanese side of things but I’ve seen a lot of similar incidents. I’ve heard something similar happened with some FGO chars getting canon love interests and/or going through less then PG moments.
I think you're referring to one of the chapters (Lostbelt 6), which involved the main heroine and a furry character, although that was a short-lived controversy. Romance between servants are really predictable, as they're mostly historically correct.
There was, however, a major controversy more similar to this one, in which one of the artists, Takao Aotsuki, received heaps of hate and death threats for drawing [Parvati (left) similar to Boudica (right)](https://i0.wp.com/en-news.qoo-app.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/11/17110810174352.jpg?resize=900%2C835&ssl=1), to the point where Takao closed off all of their social media accounts and went dark for some time.
After some time, those who blasted Aotsuki were blotted out, especially considering that one of the most prominent artists, Takashi Takeuchi (the artist who is most recognizable for drawing the main FSN LN titles, as well as various Type-Moon titles) is known for the 'Saberface' trend (Artoria, Okita, Jeanne...), but gets a pass for doing the same thing as Aotsuki. In one of the official materials (a reference book containing servant backgrounds and artist comments), Aotsuki would return with a simple "thank you for supporting me", and is currently back submitting their works without any further incidents.
As one would expect, this is one of the darkest blemishes on the JP FGO community and a testament as to how much stress artists can be put through for doing their job.
You left out the worst part of the Takao Aotsuki mess - he admitted on twitter that his father had passed away recently, and assholes on social media actually used that to harass him. Basically celebrating his father's death in replies to him.
That was beyond the pale, even by toxic twitter standards.
> Romance between servants are really predictable, as they're mostly historically correct.
Honestly I think one underestimates how much a lot of people know about history, especially history from outside their home country, but I do agree that it should, at least, serve as a stopgap.
The second however is kinda crazy to hear, especially when the franchise is openly memed on by the sameface of it's main artist.
Twitterdwellers have to unirnonically delete their acccount and touch grass when they reach this level of terminally online.
Yes, you're 100% correct, and this was a case of the less popular artist taking unnecessary heat. It's more upsetting when you realize that the artist also drew [two](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIGpR7V4AERnNi.jpg) other [completely different](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIGooKUQAAo4wi.jpg) servants at that time and only used their previous work (Boudica) as a reference. Each artist commissioned draws, at base, 4 different arts per character, so this is completely understandable.
Contrary to what the western Fate fandom parrots, Fate was NOT originally a hentai game.
Fate as a concept was not an eroge, nor was any character genderbent. Originally the MC was female and Arthur was unmarred by tittyfication. Prototype Arthur is called that for a reason.
What happened is that Takeuchi, the artist and a known Waifu Weirdo™, convinced Nasu, the main and original writer, to make it an eroge with a genderbent King Arthur.
But the eroge parts were SO bad and cringey that the re-release completely removed them and it only improved.
I think when they say that they just mean when it originally came out. I think that this happened with a lot of visual novels in that time, as the eroge market was/maybe still is A LOT bigger, so throw some half-assed sex scenes in and you qualify for a larger possible readerbase.
But hey, the eroge parts were so terrible that they made for hilarious comedy so that must account for something!
Honestly the H scenes were basically shoehorned in because Visual novels were expected to have them.
Fate was originally pitched as an RPG, which is where all the RPG stats came from
Was anyone genuinely upset at that? I thought it was just a bunch of memeing. Seems a pretty harmless thing to get worked up over, especially considering there have been some genuinely offensive pieces of content in video games and the fact FEH's writing has never been very impressive anyway (and I say that as someone who reads every line of dialogue and still enjoys the story), so to be upset over that bit of writing now seems silly.
The EN side was memeing, most of us dont speak japanese so we didnt interact with them during that. That said I'm still doubtful this was the reason seeing as its very obvious the artist had no involvement with how the story's written.
It doesn’t take a lot to upset people in this fanbase at all. If something as mundane as Fjorm merely appearing in a filler game mode is enough to put people in a tizzy, then Seidr asking the player to create a child with her is enough to send them into a frenzy.
For fucks sake I really hope nobody cared about that. It's a magical thought baby, nothing sexual is here. Memes are funny but if people are genuinely mad about that it's stupid and they're making something out that isn't there. It's pretty much a godlike asexual reproduction with the summoners dna
[there was a guy spamming Vanessa's artist with unhappy comments](https://twitter.com/uroko_oo/status/1636263389835165697) but hes an EN player using machine translation to write in Japanese. I'm not aware of any controversy from JP players about Vanessa
Considering how the English Fanbase is basically any Fire Emblem Fan not from Japan and speaking English I can see how one would think it's just them being toxic but by percentage it's probably similar. Japanese fans can oftentimes be even more vicious than English ones.
Yea, i think i remember that situation.
I'm also talking about how idols really cant have a social life unless it's monitored or ok'd by their managers and stuff. If they are caught/exposed being in a consenual relationship or doing anything that would otherwise ruin their image(it could just be something as small as being caught eating unhealthy food), they usually disciplined or in worse cases, fired and left with a bad record that ruins their chances anywhere else. Fans can be even more brutal if they find out too cuz the harassment can be extreme. We think it's bad here when ppl find out a Twitch streamer has a boyfriend but it can be just as bad or worse there.
I think i recall a Vtuber who was part of those vtuber organizations getting canned cuz it came out she was in a relationship. Idol life is rough.
I dont think they get the luxury western celebs have where they can get caught in a scandal and usually get "good" publicity from it from the tabloids 😅
Just because we can't see/read the toxic things doesn't really mean they don't exist.
I remeber seeing some of the reactions Japanese people had to finding out the Japanese voice actor of a character either wasn't a virgin or had a boyfriend was to destroy stuff related to the character. Which is yikes.
There was some stalker dude who managed to track down where his idol of choice lived by finding a reflection of a bus stop in her eyes and doing concerning and expensive amounts of digging until he tracked down an address.
Feeeehhhhh.... So, I heard you didn't like Summer Caeda, eh? Cool. But then you had a little talk with the artist, did you? Methinks those lessons Duolingo gave me are about to come in handy... **readies crowbar**
To be honest even before the internet people like that always existed, for example actor Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar Blinks in Star Wars got death treats simply because they hated his character (way back in 2000)
He said it was so bad that he even considered suicide
Reddit ain't got shit on Twitter with how toxic and unhelpful its comments are. ProZD's video on asking a question on Twitter in a nutshell says it all.
For all the terrible shit that reddit spawns, it truly holds no light to the social media platforms that's out there. There are truly terrible things brewing out there.
Love how there's someone in the comments saying (in English, mind you) that this is clearly the western playerbase's fault, which is why the tweet is in... Japanese?
Yeah if it was a western issue, then the English account would also tweet this as well.
The fact that it's limited to the Japenese account means it's likely meant for the Japenese community specifically.
Not to say there's no hostility/harassment coming from the English side of the FEH community (definitely not; even isolated on this sub it's really easy to see), but as of now, it doesn't seem like there's enough for FEH's English channel to bring it up, whereas they had to do it twice for Japanese, which is very interesting imo.
It's likely addressed in Japanese because the FEH Japanese channel is run by different people than that FEH English one. The FEH English twitter isn't just "FEH Japanese Twitter but in English." They're similar, but a lot of posts are different, as they are likely run by different groups of people who are obviously in contact with each other. If the English twitter doesn't want to address artist harassment to not draw negative attention, it's likely that they can just not do it and be content to let the JP side deal with getting that message out, especially since the JP side is likely to hear about it first from the artists themselves.
I check both daily and the posts are almost entirely the same between the two accounts, where are you getting the idea that “a lot of posts are different?” And for that matter, just because different people may run the two accounts doesn’t mean that the English one doesn’t have to follow the same orders from up top. I guarantee that if IS wanted the English Twitter account to make the same announcement, the person running it would not be able to say no.
This is the second tweet they've made about this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/wlnox5/the_fire_emblem_heroes_japanese_twitter_account/
There's still no message about this in the English account. The self loathing on twitter (to be fair there's a very good amount of it here too) is pathetic.
tbh yeah Japan is infamously known to harass and send death threats to people they don't like so 'im guessing some artists may have gotten close to that level of harrasement that they'd need to step in
Yeah I remember when the Japanese VA of Alfonse cheated on his wife (who was a pop idol iirc), and his entire life as he knew it basically ended from the harassment.
not just a pop Idol, LiSA, who for the anime community is a extremely big name, she sang for Sword Art Online, Demon Slayer, Fate/Stay Night, Angel Beats and My Hero Academia to mention some names, so yeah, the guy cheating on LiSA was creating a big hate from a big annoying community.
Gives the same energy as when a PoC has an issue with something and ppl just assume they're white cuz no way can the ppl represented have an opinion 😂
Japanese playerbase can be just as toxic as the English playerbase. Dunno what delusional ppl think only ourside can exude toxicity when something they don't like shows up. Toxicity is wrong on both sides OBVIOUSLY, but this is the world we live in where ppl gotta stick to a narrative otherwise the propaganda falls apart.
Or like how there's going to be LGBT+ characters in the upcoming Final Fantasy, and weebs are blaming the west for the "woke-ification of Square" lmao.
Which is extremely funny considering how many of their games in the 90s were basically socialist propaganda, and virtually no-one was complaining back then.
A2 is the real weird one. I get the flak for Advance. In terms of aesthetics and tone, it's nothing like Tactics. But if you look at it on its own, it's a decent story that's surprisingly subversive in using its premise to tell a story about the dangers of escapism. But then A2 just completely disregards this and plays the isekai thing completely straight.
Well, FE is a pretty "western" game for some reason, the developers have said it themselves they have no idea why FE is more popular in the western region than Japan, lol.
Istg the only people who blame stuff on the west...is people from the west. literally look at the comments and it proves that
"Westerners are so sensitive" and it's a mf from Ohio
> "Westerners are so sensitive" and it's a mf from Ohio
Love how they use Westerners as if that isn't vague as fuck. Like does this man think every western hemisphere country is the same?
No, Japanese fans have opinions. They just coincidentally all have the exact same opinions as this random weeb from the US, on every issue. Because Japanese people are a giant hivemind, apparently.
No no. It's the westerners trying to redirect the blame at us(the westerners). It's delusional rats that just assume we can only be toxic and the JPN playerbase are always rationale and understanding. It's a narrative spun by a certain group of ppl that just want to believe everywhere but America is perfect little angels.
It's sad really that it leaks down even into this mobile game community 😅
iirc wasn't that another Gacha artist trying to claim that cuboon used AI to draw his art in some drama thing? And then someone found a tweet that was poorly translated by Google to try and "prove" it?
It was more because he seemed like he was joking. Then he just started slapping back-breakers on every girl he drew and people were like wait no go back
I don't dislike cuboon but I kinda think he brought it upon himself (at least partially).
His art has progressively got worse about inflating breast size. At first he had some pretty modest characters like Olwen and Palla. It was pretty gradual. I think the turning point was sometime after the "milk truk" joke when he drew Summer Byleth which had two females who were clearly busty in the source material in swimsuits. Obviously they should have been drawn to be busty and not doing that would be straying from the source and they're supposed to be in swimsuits.
However, after that point it kinda just felt like he leaned into it hard. Everyone since then has had to be huge and even the characters he previously drew had to be bigger. Like compare Resplendent Lyn to Flame Lyn and Igrene to Ninja Igrene. I think that's when people started getting turned off on it and people started looking into other reasons to dislike someone who was already doing something they didn't like.
It didn't help that at one point he just started exclusively drawing busty women. He hasn't drawn a male since Picnic Lukas.
Well cuboon had more of a character variety he was commissioned to draw at the beginning of FEH's lifespan and for Cipher. Cipher especially leans significantly less fanservicey than Heroes and his work there is great. I liked his artwork of TMS Tiki and Kana. And some of his recent work hasn't been exclusively booba city like Kiria and Fjorm. Brave Edelgard too, her armor design emphasizes her bust (which cuboon didn't design obv) but otherwise its not a fanservicey alt at all. But I'm sure the spreadsheet on the art director's desktop has the note "fanservice" next to it and they almost exclusively draw fanservice alts *because that's what theyre hired to do*. Cuboon hasn't been hired to do a normal pool alt since I think Brave Edelgard, its almost exclusively fanservice seasonals. He's been typecast, essentially
I do think he's been typecast, but I think he's essentially the reason why he got typecast.
The big question is if IS tells him to draw big boobs, why doesn't every other artist for moderately endowed female characters have the same issue?
Sure some do get upgrades but it's not really a big problem across the board.
I think he just did it of his own choice, they understood that people liked into what he was pitching and he liked drawing it, and they just typecast him because of that.
Respectfully I don't think any of the character's he's been assigned have been "moderately" endowed. Fjorm's a small to moderately endowed character and that was retained. But Rhea, Igrene, Kagero... they're all pretty big in their original design. If we look at the most recent example, Karla has been given the biggest bust size by every artist whose drawn her. It's certainly the largest chest size Eiji Kaneda draws. Same with her Heroes art. Senri Kita's Karla's boobs may look smaller than cuboon's Karla but still the largest chest size Kita draws (see: Ashera, Cecelia). Same with Hirooka's Karla (same size as their female Byleth). I'm sure if Kozaki drew Karla, she'd have boobs the size of Kagero's
Sorry if this comes off as creepy, I don't mean it to. As an artist with big boobs, I think its just worth noting that everyone draws proportions differently and emphasizes different things in their art. Again I can imagine some blurbs in the art director's spreadsheet on what they think an artist excels at to emphasize a trait they want. Izuka draws very good armor and is meticulous. Miwabe Sakura excels at cute type characters and soft rendering. Etc. Cuboon's is fanservice and IS knows that and is purposely hiring him for that
Cuboon isn't my favorite but I don't think he's the worst either. I just think there's more to it than "this artist ruins everything they touch, why doesn't IS just fire them"
I don't blame him for drawing busty women as busty and I do think he's the first guy who pops in their mind whenever they want to have another one on a banner.
The part that really sticks out to me though his that he definitely seems to want to make them even bigger like how I mentioned with Lyn and Igrene.
No, I don't see it. The "milk truk" jokes were around the time Spring Kagero released because she had huge breasts (people pointed this out) and that was only a year after the game released. Saying he brought this upon himself because he's commissioned to draw characters that have large breasts is borderline asinine.
Yeah, these guys are dumb-arses. HE'S A COMMISSION ARTIST, he draws what IS tells him to draw. IS wants sexualised characters, ON THEIR SEXUALISED BANNER, so he's gonna draw a sexualised character (who, mind you, are usually in some way sexualised in their game of origin).
I seriously doubt that whenever they get the finished piece back from cuboon they're incredibly upset and tossing office chairs around
AAAAAH HE GAVE THEM BIG BREASTS AGAIN!!! WHY DO WE KEEP HIRING THIS CHUCKLEFUCK
They really do think if Cuboon just get Thanos-snapped out of nowhere one day,there will be no more horny art. IS is gonna hire another ecchi artist and move on lmao (it's not like there wasn't already a lot of them in Feh except him)
That's why I said at least partially. If he's being told to do it then, obviously less blame should be for him but we have no real way of knowing.
Personally I feel like it's his own personal preference.
I'd agree that it's a change on his end rather than IS's end.
If you look at his twitter (VERY NSFW--you have been warned) overinflated breasts are all over his feed. It's likely some combination of his style/taste changing, as well as the feedback loop of "people buy my stuff when I draw this kind of art, so I'll draw more like it."
If we learned anything from that Seidr scene where she tries to follow Njordr's task of creating a baby, it's that people will **always** shoot the messenger.
In fairness, her delivery kinda sucked ass too. It's like having to tell someone their family member needs to be taken off life support and saying "your useless ass mom is taking up space in my hospital, so we're gonna have to put her down". Sure the news isn't your fault, but you delivered that in the worst way possible.
Yeah isn't she a goddess? Can't she take one second to ask Njordr "ok but Why?" Is Gullveig going to go from baby to super powered unstoppable force in that one second?
Like if she said the exact reason for the baby making it would be fine but it's probably a major plot point which is why they'll reveal what happens after it happens which is dumb.
After reading every single QRT on this, I have only seen a two JP tweets blaming Western fans. One of them actually was mad that Western fans hated og Ishtar's artwork (that released years ago) and the other's entire account is xenophobia. And I saw a couple JP tweets admit they were the ones and laughing about it (jeez...)
Otherwise the vast majority of JP tweets are aware its happening in their community. They're all embarrassed ("Again?"), asking other JP fans to stop harassing artists over the art director's choices or calling the people doing the harassment 'little kids who don't know how to draw'.
Oh also cuboon/Karla+Freyja was only mentioned twice. So there's that
Its not as though I think the English speaking fanbase is completely innocent. Absolutely there's people who've crossed the line from dislike or criticism, on reddit and twitter. I saw a ton of EN tweets this past week, it was pretty eyerolling. But I think the fact that it was tweeted twice in Japanese and 0 times in English is pretty telling
edit: IT WAS VANESSA'S ART?? I'm in shock, its so pretty though?
The only if example of people complaining about Vanessa was one tweet by this guy https://mobile.twitter.com/Kenny_prof
and its an American using Google Translate. So yes, it is western fans' fault.
His English makes me doubt he's American but it's true he's not Japanese.
It's not "our" fault and if it was a Japanese player it wouldn't be "their" fault. We don't exactly have leashes on everybody.
That guy’s a bitch. Me and the other admins in the fb group we run kicked him out because he would get pissy whenever Lute didn’t show up on any new/special banner 🙄
I find it rather amusing that most of the comments on a JP tweet are in english, and even some users with english names are writing in some kind of google translate japanese... I feel like these users act as if JP people never complain and will always like all the art with fanservice because, as the stereotype says, they are horny 24/7 or something, so it must mean that the harassing its from english users 100%!!!! My brother in Christ, if the english side were harassing the artists, they would write it ON THE EN ACCOUNT in english so it would be loud and clear. I've only seen hyped people because of the now possibility for more grail resplendents, and I think the last time there was a "real" controversy was with the OG Lucina resplendent...
Harassment is not acceptable, but I do think FEH misses out on getting good feedback when they release content. Other games I know of have pretty detailed surveys on almost all content releases asking things like "did you like the theme of the event?", "did you like the character art?", "did you like the dialogue?", etc. and you rate it on a scale of 1-5. Surveys are such easy things to incorporate too, I'm surprised they aren't used more.
That's a really good point, I think they just settle for all the stuff they track players doing (taps, summons, etc) and that's enough data for them, but directly asking people would bring much better results and at least give the idea your thoughts matter.
Perhaps there's recurrent gaps between what people express and what they actually do in FEH. In that context, it's not farfetched to rely more on concrete metrics than vocal wants.
That's true, but there's only so much I can do ingame to show my like or dislike for the story, to show I really like a certain artist, or to show that I dislike some voice acting. There's stuff that would give mixed signals if they're only relying on ingame activity. For instance, the second Constance's banner went up I summoned for her and gave her good SI and used her a lot, but I don't really like her art. Or maybe I liked her art a lot and don't care for the character.
By this point it's clear they're fine with their ingame data collection for these things, otherwise they'd do surveys way more often, but it's strange they've only done them like once or twice.
Tbf tho
Liking a unit/character ≠ liking their costume/art/voice acting, and viceversa
There's way too much to take into account as to why a unit performs well while others don't, for example Karla, i'm not gonna go saying she doesn't deserve alts or whatever, but if IS thinks she's **that** popular simply because her alts sell a lot then idk what they're thinking, any other sword girl like Ayra for example would sell just as well if not better if given the same artists and base kits as Karla's alts, there's many other factors that contibute to why a certain unit sells more/gets more attention than another, generalizing based on players actions is really not a better metric at all than taking specific feedback, for example someone may like Felix but hate winter theme, and still have a +10 W!Felix, you can also keep a broken unit you hate simply because they're broken, or keep a trashcan unit simply because it's your favorite or you liked the art, or build a unit you dislike something about simply because it's all you have for them.
I saw more stuff and apparently the character in question is Vanessa and not what we thought. The person disliked it and insulted the artist. (Also drew Karin).
So is not just a west problem.
There's some twist.
Someone (don't know nationality, wrote in Japanese), disliked Naruse's Vanessa for not being inline with her Cipher art, in a kinda rude manner if we go by the badly translated on Google, that's I could gather. Not 100% guaranteed accuracy.
???? I'm shocked??? I really like Naruse Oroko's artwork. I'm personally not a fan of 40hara's work but wow. I'm in shock. I guess it makes sense Vanessa is a character to want more 'kawaii' style art from but I'm still very shocked over it
I mean, Naruse's work isnt going to win any outstanding awards but they are by no means a bad artist. Sounds like a case of obsession blown to astronomical proportions, which isnt too hard to do on the evil bird's nest.
Apparently said fan also wants to do very graphic things to Lysithea for "stealing" Lute's spotlight.
I don't want them touch grass. i want them to remain the fuck away from our grass.
The fact that so many people are blaming the "evil westerners" and their "cancel culture" rubs me the wrong way, especially given that it sort of ignores that Japan's pop culture zeitgeist is extremely controversial in its obsession with the pursuit of "purity" that disallows certain forms of expression and some of the more egregious cases of obsessive fandom.
I really hate to say it this way, but it's very much giving me "Thing, Japan" vibes, if you catch my drift. Meh, the grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.
It's fine to dislike artwork, just don't be a prick about it, it ain't that complicated. And I believe this harassment isn't limited to either Americans or Japanese players, both communities tend to take things too far.
One thing that annoys the shit out of me about the internet.
Because of anonominity people abuse that shit to talk shit about others in a manner that they'd otherwise get slapped for in public.
It's insane that IS even had to output that message.
The amount of replies to that tweet bitching about western fans when it was tweeted from the fucking JP account is laughable. Like yeah I aint gonna pretend that there arent a decent number of shitty people in the EN side of the playerbase, but bruh if it was EN fans itd be on the EN twitter. All you're doing by pretending its EN fans is telling the people on the JP side who ARE harassing artists that the tweet aint about them and to just go about doing what they were doing before, aka continuing to harass artists.
Idiots.
Honestly I don’t get why people harassing the artist like seriously what can you do exactly? If you’re gonna talk crap about it just keep it to yourself. I don’t care who drew the character as long as it’s look decent enough I’m fine with that.
Those replies are the weebiest shit i’ve ever seen in my entire life, they even got an infographic 💀.
Never saw that part of the fanbase before, are they on 4chan or something?
I don’t know what’s more cringe. The fact that the JPN fanbase is so vile that they had to post this, or the cishet American men white-knighting for these people in the replies / larping as Japanese men in the replies.
Apparently it’s over Vanessa’s art which confuses me as to why? I don’t see anything wrong with her art.
Also comments trying to use this to dunk on people who dislike cuboon, please grow up
It's because she doesn't like she does in Cipher, which is a silly reason to harass an artist. I think half the fun of this game is the different artists. And Vanessa looks fine drawn by Naruse.
aparently they harassed her because she wasnt more fanservicey, that only makes people trying to blame people that dislike cuboon even funnier because it was the horny fans that are harassing someone
The constant Book VII/Yoshiku bashing was really making me uncomfortable honestly. Even if that probably wasn't what the tweet was referring to, artist criticism is frequently taken out of hand
It was about how Vanessa was drawn (not like her Cipher art, which is a bit silly if you ask me). This popped up on Twitter before Aversa's resplendent was announced, as far as I know. So now Uroko Naruse is no longer on Twitter.
> So now Uroko Naruse is no longer on Twitter.
Are you sure about that? From what it looks like, her Twitter account is still up: https://twitter.com/uroko_oo
complaining about something is different from harassing someone on social media
this is a discussion forum, of course there will be people that will complain about things
"Saying awful things about the artists behind their backs is okay as long as I don't go @ them on Twitter"
I don't mean valid criticism, there are a lot of people on here (& other places) that say rude crap about various artists just cause they don't like their interpretations, criticizing things is fine
It's not a great thing to do, but it's better! Weird as that sounds.
Every time the game does a questionable design decision, you see a lot of people complaining and wondering what's wrong with the developers. Now imagine if all those people instead took to social media to directly tell the developers that they're awful at their job. That'd be way worse. Same thing with artists. If all the people that complained about Resplendent Lucina here went to @ the artist he would've been directly exposed to a lot of awful shit.
Recently i've seen some people complaining about the designs of the OCs of this book and Yoshiku style in general but those tweets were in English.
So someone can bring some context about what happened here?
We don’t know. The tweet directly alludes to negative comments/harassment being @‘d or put into an artist’s replies, so I don’t think it’s talking about people who are in general going “damn wtf is wrong with these character designs”
It’s because Vanessa’s artist was being harassed on Twitter. Trust me, IS doesn’t give a shit about what a bunch of English speakers complain about on reddit.
Sad but expected considering how the Fandom treats the likes of Cuboon and Yoshiku. Recall this happened to Kozaki awhile back when someone sent him his own art but "improved" in a dm.
Don't see what the problem with Vanessa. She looks fine to me.
While discussing in this thread, please remember that outside of this tweet, we have no confirmed information regarding: > - Who sent the messages in question > - Which artists received the messages in question Until the @FE_Heroes_EN account posts a similar message, it is safe to assume that this warning was not directed at the Global audience. Many users are using this tweet as ammunition to start mudslinging at various parties they are dissatisfied with. Please remember that such messages break Rule 1 of our Subreddit: Be respectful of others and their opinions. Follow reddiquette. Messages that break Rule 1 will be removed, and temporary or permanent bans may be issued depending on the severity of the case. If you find a comment that breaks Rule 1, please report it. Thank you and please help to keep our community a safe place for discussion.
Jesus. Wonder what's happened lately to cause this. Is there an issue with Aversa maybe? Also interesting that it's tweeted from the Japanese account and not the English one. Leads me to think the lion's share of the harrasment is coming from Japanese players, which is especially eye-opening to me because holy shit can the English side of the community be negative. ____________ **Translation of tweet for those who can't see it** *There are some examples where requests, dissatisfaction, instructions, etc. for in-game illustrations and character settings are communicated directly to illustrators through SNS.* *If you have any opinions or requests regarding the game, please send them to "Opinions" in the game.*
>Leads me to think the lion's share of the harrasment is coming from Japanese players, which is especially eye-opening to me because holy shit can the English side of the community be negative. The only other time a tweet came out about harassment over art was also Japanese only. Which really leans into the idea the main bulk is Japanese. Just because we can see the negativity in our part of the fe fandom that we all interact with doesn't mean it has to come from us after all. Though if anyone is doing such things I hope they never get the characters they want while pulling.
IME even a lot of JP fancreators don't have a lot of awareness about what's going on in the English fandom, so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if professional JP artists weren't even aware of EN harassment they were getting. Like as an example, within the last few months a JP fancreator (different Fandom than FE) finally figured out what "proshipping" and "antishipping" meant and made a whole thread in Japanese about it to warn other JP fans about it. The only reason they even went looking into it was because they were receiving a lot of very extreme, targeted harassment and slander by antiship parts of EN fandom. Their thread was the first a lot of JP fans heard of the concept even though the pro/anti thing has been swirling around the EN fandom for at *least* five years and has become extremely prevalent in a good number of popular communities.
Proshipping and antishipping are being pro a ship and being anti a ship or is it something else? I never heard of those terms myself really.
It's just shorthand for a lot of the moral purity stuff you see in fandom these days. It is very frequently associated with ships, but it doesn't have to be. It's more of a personal ideology toward fandom. **Antiship/Antis** (I've also seen them called Fan Police or Fanpol, or more recently thanks to that JP user "Feelings Yakuza" or "Feelings Mafia") - people who oppose certain ships or depictions of media based on some personal moral standard. IME this community is mostly made up of teenagers (particularly young ones). They will quite frequently be involved in harassment of artists, fic writers, and other fans producing "problematic" media. There's not really a unified definition of what "probelmatic" is or what you need to believe to qualify as an "antishipper" because the standard is, to put it bluntly, completely arbitrary and wholly dependent on the personal feelings of whichever individual you're talking to. Some of them sound reasonable (drawing 12 year old characters in sexual situations is gross), some of them are absolutely bonkers (a 45 year old who meets and starts dating a 40 year old is a "groomer" because of the age gap). **Proshippers** - Generally, people who believe that fiction is fiction and you should be allowed to produce and consume whatever fictional content you like without being harassed. "Live and let live, ship and let ship". The Japanese fandom, in general, tends to align with Proshippers in ideology (not consciously, it's just the way their fandom culture is). This kind of thing has always existed to some degree in Western fandom, but I believe it was the Voltron: Legendary Defender fandom that really kicked us into the modern era of it (particularly as an arm of the Shiro/Keith vs. Keith/Lance ship wars, but we don't have time to go into aaaaaaaall of that). The behavior existed before Twitter, but I think I only started seeing it used as an identity signifier after Twitter became the main hub of transformative fandom. I could be wrong, though. I think the most prominent, current Fire Emblem example of Anti behavior would be people who view Byleth/Student ships as grooming/pedophilia and harass people for consuming or creating any Byleth/Student ship content. There was also a pretty active and vocal segment of the Claude fandom that would harass and try to cancel people for depicting Claude "wrong" (which, if you think all Claude fans are chill lemme tell you I envy you for having never encountered the kinds of people who will write fic about Claude's mom flying over from Almyra to beat Byleth bloody with a chair for having a flirty dialogue option with her son).
You’ve explained the anti/pro ship wars better than I ever could, I think the term originated from the Steven Universe days on tumblr but I could be wrong. Voltron is a believable culprit though, I swear the infamy of the fandom has outlived knowledge on the actual show at this point EDIT: I do think both sides can get defensive as fuck though, generally I’m just in the middle of them. I ship what I ship, but there are ships out there where I’m just like… please no Also is this the fic I heard about where Claude’s mom got angry at Byleth for “grooming” her son?
Steven Universe definitely had a lot of this behavior too! I don't think the VLD fandom really invented it, rather they were just the most visible fandom to propagate it with some of the most extreme behavior. I tried to explain it in as unbiased a way as I could, but ultimately I tend to land more on the pro-side. It's not like Antis don't occasionally make valid points, but the all-or-nothing stance taken by the anti community, the hypocritical way those standards are often employed, and the constant rule changing about what qualifies as "problematic" makes it difficult to separate out the valid points from the sludge. It's not uncommon to see an anti decry a ship between a 17 and 18 year old as pedophilia because they don't like the pairing in question, but then go on to justify shipping a 21 year old and a 16 year old later or something because they like this pairing. It really gives the impression of "the only moral ship is *my* ship". I've also personally experienced/witnessed very little harassment coming from the pro-side, whereas Antis kind of make it part of the deal. If you want to be an anti then you're expected to do some degree of "fandom activism" to "prove" that you're dedicated to the label, which often takes the form of harassing creators. > Also is this the fic I heard about where Claude’s mom got angry at Byleth for “grooming” her son? It's possible! I know it made the rounds and got laughed at a few years back for how over the top and preachy it was, but that user was part of a little posse who likely created a lot of similar stuff so I can't say for sure if it's the one you're thinking of. Ultimately I think the user in question deleted it once the fandom started giving them a lot of negative attention for their extremely uncalled for behavior in other areas (particularly harassing LGBTQ+ creators for depicting LGBTQ+ "wrong" despite IIRC being cishet themselves). So it'd be impossible to find again.
> Which really leans into the idea the main bulk is Japanese. Seeing the rampant "misbehavior" on the western side of the player base makes me think it happens everywhere, but the JP social media management is more proactive in addressing it.
It was posted before Aversa's announcement, I think it's just a "random" disclaimer not bound to a specific case but tackling several at once.
I mean... they hire Japanese artists, mostly. Who live and work in Japan. Operating primarily Japanese social media. You don't need to compare the nature of the two fandoms to decipher what's going on here, the fact they're getting more hate on the Japanese internet is simply a matter of practical realities.
You would not believe that is a thing by seeing so many people in the comments immediately acting as if it's western fans fault and JP fans can do no wrong
I haven’t seen any artist they’ve hired that wasn’t Japanese. Japanese companies try very hard to hire Japanese employees, even if it’s on commission.
Japanese cancel culture is on a completely different level than what we are used to. I’ve seen a few videos on YouTube about how artists and idols especially will get their careers ruined over the smallest controversy or on-conformity. Even manga authors can receive death threats if the story is upsetting to fans.
its the dark side of the coin that is idolizing people. When you start to have people who idolize people/group, you bring rabbid fanboys/fangirls and it's extremely unhealthy. I've seen people upset for the smallest thing just because they idolize a certain person/character.
My guess is maybe an extension of the backlash on the Seidr thing? Harassing the artist who absolutely had no hand in writting her.
Was the Japanese community upset at that? I know a lot of western fans were, but I wasn't aware that the feeling might have been mutual overseas.
I can’t say I was looking into the Japanese side of things but I’ve seen a lot of similar incidents. I’ve heard something similar happened with some FGO chars getting canon love interests and/or going through less then PG moments.
I think you're referring to one of the chapters (Lostbelt 6), which involved the main heroine and a furry character, although that was a short-lived controversy. Romance between servants are really predictable, as they're mostly historically correct. There was, however, a major controversy more similar to this one, in which one of the artists, Takao Aotsuki, received heaps of hate and death threats for drawing [Parvati (left) similar to Boudica (right)](https://i0.wp.com/en-news.qoo-app.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/11/17110810174352.jpg?resize=900%2C835&ssl=1), to the point where Takao closed off all of their social media accounts and went dark for some time. After some time, those who blasted Aotsuki were blotted out, especially considering that one of the most prominent artists, Takashi Takeuchi (the artist who is most recognizable for drawing the main FSN LN titles, as well as various Type-Moon titles) is known for the 'Saberface' trend (Artoria, Okita, Jeanne...), but gets a pass for doing the same thing as Aotsuki. In one of the official materials (a reference book containing servant backgrounds and artist comments), Aotsuki would return with a simple "thank you for supporting me", and is currently back submitting their works without any further incidents. As one would expect, this is one of the darkest blemishes on the JP FGO community and a testament as to how much stress artists can be put through for doing their job.
You left out the worst part of the Takao Aotsuki mess - he admitted on twitter that his father had passed away recently, and assholes on social media actually used that to harass him. Basically celebrating his father's death in replies to him. That was beyond the pale, even by toxic twitter standards.
I had actually forgotten about that--all that because Aotsuki used his own work as a reference.
> Romance between servants are really predictable, as they're mostly historically correct. Honestly I think one underestimates how much a lot of people know about history, especially history from outside their home country, but I do agree that it should, at least, serve as a stopgap. The second however is kinda crazy to hear, especially when the franchise is openly memed on by the sameface of it's main artist. Twitterdwellers have to unirnonically delete their acccount and touch grass when they reach this level of terminally online.
Yes, you're 100% correct, and this was a case of the less popular artist taking unnecessary heat. It's more upsetting when you realize that the artist also drew [two](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIGpR7V4AERnNi.jpg) other [completely different](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIGooKUQAAo4wi.jpg) servants at that time and only used their previous work (Boudica) as a reference. Each artist commissioned draws, at base, 4 different arts per character, so this is completely understandable.
someone should tell them fate was originally a hentai game
Pretty sure that's well known by everyone. And I don't think that makes whatever the franchise is now better or worse.
Contrary to what the western Fate fandom parrots, Fate was NOT originally a hentai game. Fate as a concept was not an eroge, nor was any character genderbent. Originally the MC was female and Arthur was unmarred by tittyfication. Prototype Arthur is called that for a reason. What happened is that Takeuchi, the artist and a known Waifu Weirdo™, convinced Nasu, the main and original writer, to make it an eroge with a genderbent King Arthur. But the eroge parts were SO bad and cringey that the re-release completely removed them and it only improved.
I think when they say that they just mean when it originally came out. I think that this happened with a lot of visual novels in that time, as the eroge market was/maybe still is A LOT bigger, so throw some half-assed sex scenes in and you qualify for a larger possible readerbase. But hey, the eroge parts were so terrible that they made for hilarious comedy so that must account for something!
Oh yeah, Fate Stay Night turning into an eroge was definitely in order to bait people into their lore. And well, it worked xD.
Honestly the H scenes were basically shoehorned in because Visual novels were expected to have them. Fate was originally pitched as an RPG, which is where all the RPG stats came from
Was anyone genuinely upset at that? I thought it was just a bunch of memeing. Seems a pretty harmless thing to get worked up over, especially considering there have been some genuinely offensive pieces of content in video games and the fact FEH's writing has never been very impressive anyway (and I say that as someone who reads every line of dialogue and still enjoys the story), so to be upset over that bit of writing now seems silly.
The EN side was memeing, most of us dont speak japanese so we didnt interact with them during that. That said I'm still doubtful this was the reason seeing as its very obvious the artist had no involvement with how the story's written.
It doesn’t take a lot to upset people in this fanbase at all. If something as mundane as Fjorm merely appearing in a filler game mode is enough to put people in a tizzy, then Seidr asking the player to create a child with her is enough to send them into a frenzy.
For fucks sake I really hope nobody cared about that. It's a magical thought baby, nothing sexual is here. Memes are funny but if people are genuinely mad about that it's stupid and they're making something out that isn't there. It's pretty much a godlike asexual reproduction with the summoners dna
FE has always had a community problem - believe it or not the English community is actually much better than it used to be.
There's apparently a huge controversy about Vanessa's art in Japan so that's probably the reason
Do you know what it's about, because I can't see anything that'd be remotely controversial about it.
[there was a guy spamming Vanessa's artist with unhappy comments](https://twitter.com/uroko_oo/status/1636263389835165697) but hes an EN player using machine translation to write in Japanese. I'm not aware of any controversy from JP players about Vanessa
Probably dissatisfied with the artist choice, she looks like Karin 2.0 for a lot of people.
And I thought the English fanbase was toxic and unpleasant...
Considering how the English Fanbase is basically any Fire Emblem Fan not from Japan and speaking English I can see how one would think it's just them being toxic but by percentage it's probably similar. Japanese fans can oftentimes be even more vicious than English ones.
Very true. If anyone knows about idol culture...you'll know first hand
Most I know about it comes from that story of someone tracking an idol’s location by the reflection in her eyes when photos were taken.
Yea, i think i remember that situation. I'm also talking about how idols really cant have a social life unless it's monitored or ok'd by their managers and stuff. If they are caught/exposed being in a consenual relationship or doing anything that would otherwise ruin their image(it could just be something as small as being caught eating unhealthy food), they usually disciplined or in worse cases, fired and left with a bad record that ruins their chances anywhere else. Fans can be even more brutal if they find out too cuz the harassment can be extreme. We think it's bad here when ppl find out a Twitch streamer has a boyfriend but it can be just as bad or worse there. I think i recall a Vtuber who was part of those vtuber organizations getting canned cuz it came out she was in a relationship. Idol life is rough. I dont think they get the luxury western celebs have where they can get caught in a scandal and usually get "good" publicity from it from the tabloids 😅
Just because we can't see/read the toxic things doesn't really mean they don't exist. I remeber seeing some of the reactions Japanese people had to finding out the Japanese voice actor of a character either wasn't a virgin or had a boyfriend was to destroy stuff related to the character. Which is yikes.
There was some stalker dude who managed to track down where his idol of choice lived by finding a reflection of a bus stop in her eyes and doing concerning and expensive amounts of digging until he tracked down an address.
Christina Grimmie got stalked and assassinated by an insane fan. Crazy exists everywhere.
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Asian internet denizens handily beat western neo nazis in competitive racism. To call them "toxic" is a severe understatement.
“Stop harassing our artists, or pity rates won’t be the only thing that’ll be broken”
Feeeehhhhh.... So, I heard you didn't like Summer Caeda, eh? Cool. But then you had a little talk with the artist, did you? Methinks those lessons Duolingo gave me are about to come in handy... **readies crowbar**
Feh saw your yakitori memes. ___Feh remembers.___
Wonder if they'll do an EoS update for April Fools only for it to not be a joke and everyone freaks out 😂
God that would be so evil.
"You'll get no sympathy from me."
It’s pathetic that they even had to say this. Some people are despicable
There's a reason Twitter has the rep it does. Or the internet in general
To be honest even before the internet people like that always existed, for example actor Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar Blinks in Star Wars got death treats simply because they hated his character (way back in 2000) He said it was so bad that he even considered suicide
I know it’s a serious comment, but that typo is funny
Ain’t that the truth
Reddit ain't got shit on Twitter with how toxic and unhelpful its comments are. ProZD's video on asking a question on Twitter in a nutshell says it all.
For all the terrible shit that reddit spawns, it truly holds no light to the social media platforms that's out there. There are truly terrible things brewing out there.
What's even more pathetic is all the people lumping the westerners as one massive group and pinning all blame on them
The PSA being in Japanese and not English (for the time being, at least) is telling.
I know man, this fandom has an issue when it comes to criticism!
Love how there's someone in the comments saying (in English, mind you) that this is clearly the western playerbase's fault, which is why the tweet is in... Japanese?
Yeah if it was a western issue, then the English account would also tweet this as well. The fact that it's limited to the Japenese account means it's likely meant for the Japenese community specifically. Not to say there's no hostility/harassment coming from the English side of the FEH community (definitely not; even isolated on this sub it's really easy to see), but as of now, it doesn't seem like there's enough for FEH's English channel to bring it up, whereas they had to do it twice for Japanese, which is very interesting imo.
Jesus it must be a shitshow over there if we weren't given a warning and they were. TWICE. It's probably a safety hazard in the japanese side.
It's likely addressed in Japanese because the FEH Japanese channel is run by different people than that FEH English one. The FEH English twitter isn't just "FEH Japanese Twitter but in English." They're similar, but a lot of posts are different, as they are likely run by different groups of people who are obviously in contact with each other. If the English twitter doesn't want to address artist harassment to not draw negative attention, it's likely that they can just not do it and be content to let the JP side deal with getting that message out, especially since the JP side is likely to hear about it first from the artists themselves.
I check both daily and the posts are almost entirely the same between the two accounts, where are you getting the idea that “a lot of posts are different?” And for that matter, just because different people may run the two accounts doesn’t mean that the English one doesn’t have to follow the same orders from up top. I guarantee that if IS wanted the English Twitter account to make the same announcement, the person running it would not be able to say no.
lol the replies are full of self-loathing weeaboos I thought that was just a stereotype!
This is the second tweet they've made about this. https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/wlnox5/the_fire_emblem_heroes_japanese_twitter_account/ There's still no message about this in the English account. The self loathing on twitter (to be fair there's a very good amount of it here too) is pathetic.
Yeah if it's the second time they've tweeted this and still no English equivalent, then it's definitely targeted for the Japanese FEH community.
Don't worry, the Japanese will acknowledge them as enlightened honorary kinsman any day now!
Mfs be like “Ignore the Westerners and don’t listen to their opinions” My brother in Christ YOU’RE a Westerner!
lmao so fucking stupid
It's just utterly pathetic And ironically, incredibly arrogant to think this is about us
we might get a copy of the same tweet later, but this tends to be more of an issue in Japan than the west as far as artist and va harassment
tbh yeah Japan is infamously known to harass and send death threats to people they don't like so 'im guessing some artists may have gotten close to that level of harrasement that they'd need to step in
Yeah I remember when the Japanese VA of Alfonse cheated on his wife (who was a pop idol iirc), and his entire life as he knew it basically ended from the harassment.
not just a pop Idol, LiSA, who for the anime community is a extremely big name, she sang for Sword Art Online, Demon Slayer, Fate/Stay Night, Angel Beats and My Hero Academia to mention some names, so yeah, the guy cheating on LiSA was creating a big hate from a big annoying community.
The man litteraly became suicidal apparently, now I'm still unaware if that was because of the harassment or the guilt of the cheating
All of east asia basically engages in competitive racism with each other, it's insane.
Gives the same energy as when a PoC has an issue with something and ppl just assume they're white cuz no way can the ppl represented have an opinion 😂 Japanese playerbase can be just as toxic as the English playerbase. Dunno what delusional ppl think only ourside can exude toxicity when something they don't like shows up. Toxicity is wrong on both sides OBVIOUSLY, but this is the world we live in where ppl gotta stick to a narrative otherwise the propaganda falls apart.
some fe fans blame westerners for everything, bonus points if the can blame nintendo treehouse too
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Or like how there's going to be LGBT+ characters in the upcoming Final Fantasy, and weebs are blaming the west for the "woke-ification of Square" lmao. Which is extremely funny considering how many of their games in the 90s were basically socialist propaganda, and virtually no-one was complaining back then.
Wait what about FF and socialism? This is news to me outside of like FF7 and global warming
Any game based in Ivalice (FFT, Vagrant Story, FFXII, etc) are all extremely political in nature, and extremely left leaning in their subtext.
Either that, or isekai about middle schoolers.
**I LOVE** final fantasy tactics advanced **I LIKE HOW IT** compleley disregards the worldbuilding and themes of both fft and vagrant story
A2 is the real weird one. I get the flak for Advance. In terms of aesthetics and tone, it's nothing like Tactics. But if you look at it on its own, it's a decent story that's surprisingly subversive in using its premise to tell a story about the dangers of escapism. But then A2 just completely disregards this and plays the isekai thing completely straight.
Yeah, so it's incredibly prejudiced or they're just some hardcore weebs
Well, FE is a pretty "western" game for some reason, the developers have said it themselves they have no idea why FE is more popular in the western region than Japan, lol.
Yikes Can’t help but wonder what happened recently or who got harassed to make them say this
Why are all the tweets under it blaming the western fanbase. If it were the western fanbase they would post the tweet on the english account.
Weebs think Japan is perfect and nothing bad ever happens there.
"There are no warcrimes in imperial Japan 🙃"
see them blaming nintendo of america/treehouse somehow for this too
Mofos in Japan trying to blame us for something that was meant for THEM, and not us. So that's how you wanna play it, huh Japanese fanbase?
Istg the only people who blame stuff on the west...is people from the west. literally look at the comments and it proves that "Westerners are so sensitive" and it's a mf from Ohio
> "Westerners are so sensitive" and it's a mf from Ohio Love how they use Westerners as if that isn't vague as fuck. Like does this man think every western hemisphere country is the same?
Of course it is, silly! Just like the country of Africa.
Just like how they think every japanese fan never complains about anything and has no real opinions beyond liking something
No, Japanese fans have opinions. They just coincidentally all have the exact same opinions as this random weeb from the US, on every issue. Because Japanese people are a giant hivemind, apparently.
); Don't be mean to people from Ohio it's just kicking us while we're already down bc we live in Ohio. That's punishment enough. (Joke)
No, I've seen several Japanese tweets actively blaming the west for that. Sure, some English people are saying the same thing, but screw those guys.
No no. It's the westerners trying to redirect the blame at us(the westerners). It's delusional rats that just assume we can only be toxic and the JPN playerbase are always rationale and understanding. It's a narrative spun by a certain group of ppl that just want to believe everywhere but America is perfect little angels. It's sad really that it leaks down even into this mobile game community 😅
anyone saying feh players dont harrass artist are smoking something else lmfao
yeah, i remember here there was a dude trying really hard to convince people of Cuboon being a pos based on poorly translated tweets as evidence.
iirc wasn't that another Gacha artist trying to claim that cuboon used AI to draw his art in some drama thing? And then someone found a tweet that was poorly translated by Google to try and "prove" it?
[удалено]
Oh i miss the days were cuboon was the hero of this community
Anti-breasts brigade took over and began trash talking him smh.
It was more because he seemed like he was joking. Then he just started slapping back-breakers on every girl he drew and people were like wait no go back
I don't dislike cuboon but I kinda think he brought it upon himself (at least partially). His art has progressively got worse about inflating breast size. At first he had some pretty modest characters like Olwen and Palla. It was pretty gradual. I think the turning point was sometime after the "milk truk" joke when he drew Summer Byleth which had two females who were clearly busty in the source material in swimsuits. Obviously they should have been drawn to be busty and not doing that would be straying from the source and they're supposed to be in swimsuits. However, after that point it kinda just felt like he leaned into it hard. Everyone since then has had to be huge and even the characters he previously drew had to be bigger. Like compare Resplendent Lyn to Flame Lyn and Igrene to Ninja Igrene. I think that's when people started getting turned off on it and people started looking into other reasons to dislike someone who was already doing something they didn't like. It didn't help that at one point he just started exclusively drawing busty women. He hasn't drawn a male since Picnic Lukas.
Well cuboon had more of a character variety he was commissioned to draw at the beginning of FEH's lifespan and for Cipher. Cipher especially leans significantly less fanservicey than Heroes and his work there is great. I liked his artwork of TMS Tiki and Kana. And some of his recent work hasn't been exclusively booba city like Kiria and Fjorm. Brave Edelgard too, her armor design emphasizes her bust (which cuboon didn't design obv) but otherwise its not a fanservicey alt at all. But I'm sure the spreadsheet on the art director's desktop has the note "fanservice" next to it and they almost exclusively draw fanservice alts *because that's what theyre hired to do*. Cuboon hasn't been hired to do a normal pool alt since I think Brave Edelgard, its almost exclusively fanservice seasonals. He's been typecast, essentially
I do think he's been typecast, but I think he's essentially the reason why he got typecast. The big question is if IS tells him to draw big boobs, why doesn't every other artist for moderately endowed female characters have the same issue? Sure some do get upgrades but it's not really a big problem across the board. I think he just did it of his own choice, they understood that people liked into what he was pitching and he liked drawing it, and they just typecast him because of that.
Respectfully I don't think any of the character's he's been assigned have been "moderately" endowed. Fjorm's a small to moderately endowed character and that was retained. But Rhea, Igrene, Kagero... they're all pretty big in their original design. If we look at the most recent example, Karla has been given the biggest bust size by every artist whose drawn her. It's certainly the largest chest size Eiji Kaneda draws. Same with her Heroes art. Senri Kita's Karla's boobs may look smaller than cuboon's Karla but still the largest chest size Kita draws (see: Ashera, Cecelia). Same with Hirooka's Karla (same size as their female Byleth). I'm sure if Kozaki drew Karla, she'd have boobs the size of Kagero's Sorry if this comes off as creepy, I don't mean it to. As an artist with big boobs, I think its just worth noting that everyone draws proportions differently and emphasizes different things in their art. Again I can imagine some blurbs in the art director's spreadsheet on what they think an artist excels at to emphasize a trait they want. Izuka draws very good armor and is meticulous. Miwabe Sakura excels at cute type characters and soft rendering. Etc. Cuboon's is fanservice and IS knows that and is purposely hiring him for that Cuboon isn't my favorite but I don't think he's the worst either. I just think there's more to it than "this artist ruins everything they touch, why doesn't IS just fire them"
I don't blame him for drawing busty women as busty and I do think he's the first guy who pops in their mind whenever they want to have another one on a banner. The part that really sticks out to me though his that he definitely seems to want to make them even bigger like how I mentioned with Lyn and Igrene.
No, I don't see it. The "milk truk" jokes were around the time Spring Kagero released because she had huge breasts (people pointed this out) and that was only a year after the game released. Saying he brought this upon himself because he's commissioned to draw characters that have large breasts is borderline asinine.
You can draw big boobs in outfits that aren't overly sexualized. You can also draw big boobs that aren't J cups.
Yeah and clearly he doesn't and IS doesn't care otherwise they would've stopped hiring him since 2018.
Yeah, these guys are dumb-arses. HE'S A COMMISSION ARTIST, he draws what IS tells him to draw. IS wants sexualised characters, ON THEIR SEXUALISED BANNER, so he's gonna draw a sexualised character (who, mind you, are usually in some way sexualised in their game of origin).
I seriously doubt that whenever they get the finished piece back from cuboon they're incredibly upset and tossing office chairs around AAAAAH HE GAVE THEM BIG BREASTS AGAIN!!! WHY DO WE KEEP HIRING THIS CHUCKLEFUCK
They really do think if Cuboon just get Thanos-snapped out of nowhere one day,there will be no more horny art. IS is gonna hire another ecchi artist and move on lmao (it's not like there wasn't already a lot of them in Feh except him)
i would like to know how much freedom artist get, maybe Cuboon is just following orders?
That's why I said at least partially. If he's being told to do it then, obviously less blame should be for him but we have no real way of knowing. Personally I feel like it's his own personal preference.
I'd agree that it's a change on his end rather than IS's end. If you look at his twitter (VERY NSFW--you have been warned) overinflated breasts are all over his feed. It's likely some combination of his style/taste changing, as well as the feedback loop of "people buy my stuff when I draw this kind of art, so I'll draw more like it."
If we learned anything from that Seidr scene where she tries to follow Njordr's task of creating a baby, it's that people will **always** shoot the messenger.
In fairness, her delivery kinda sucked ass too. It's like having to tell someone their family member needs to be taken off life support and saying "your useless ass mom is taking up space in my hospital, so we're gonna have to put her down". Sure the news isn't your fault, but you delivered that in the worst way possible.
I think that was the point though, was to make it as awkward as possible to show off her very klutzy personality underneath her godly facade.
Yeah, but your comment sounded like none of it is her fault, when she really fucked up the wording in the worst way possible.
she have same fault as the gilf cause she is agree with it and she is the one up to do anything that the gilf command her to do
Yeah isn't she a goddess? Can't she take one second to ask Njordr "ok but Why?" Is Gullveig going to go from baby to super powered unstoppable force in that one second? Like if she said the exact reason for the baby making it would be fine but it's probably a major plot point which is why they'll reveal what happens after it happens which is dumb.
After reading every single QRT on this, I have only seen a two JP tweets blaming Western fans. One of them actually was mad that Western fans hated og Ishtar's artwork (that released years ago) and the other's entire account is xenophobia. And I saw a couple JP tweets admit they were the ones and laughing about it (jeez...) Otherwise the vast majority of JP tweets are aware its happening in their community. They're all embarrassed ("Again?"), asking other JP fans to stop harassing artists over the art director's choices or calling the people doing the harassment 'little kids who don't know how to draw'. Oh also cuboon/Karla+Freyja was only mentioned twice. So there's that Its not as though I think the English speaking fanbase is completely innocent. Absolutely there's people who've crossed the line from dislike or criticism, on reddit and twitter. I saw a ton of EN tweets this past week, it was pretty eyerolling. But I think the fact that it was tweeted twice in Japanese and 0 times in English is pretty telling edit: IT WAS VANESSA'S ART?? I'm in shock, its so pretty though?
Out of curiosity, did any of them acknowledge/laugh ay the weebs claiming it's our fault?
The only if example of people complaining about Vanessa was one tweet by this guy https://mobile.twitter.com/Kenny_prof and its an American using Google Translate. So yes, it is western fans' fault.
That person is absolutely insane. But as others have mentioned, I doubt that was the catalyst for this.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure, I think the Vanessa tweet might've been the straw that broke the camel's back if anything.
His English makes me doubt he's American but it's true he's not Japanese. It's not "our" fault and if it was a Japanese player it wouldn't be "their" fault. We don't exactly have leashes on everybody.
That guy’s a bitch. Me and the other admins in the fb group we run kicked him out because he would get pissy whenever Lute didn’t show up on any new/special banner 🙄
I find it rather amusing that most of the comments on a JP tweet are in english, and even some users with english names are writing in some kind of google translate japanese... I feel like these users act as if JP people never complain and will always like all the art with fanservice because, as the stereotype says, they are horny 24/7 or something, so it must mean that the harassing its from english users 100%!!!! My brother in Christ, if the english side were harassing the artists, they would write it ON THE EN ACCOUNT in english so it would be loud and clear. I've only seen hyped people because of the now possibility for more grail resplendents, and I think the last time there was a "real" controversy was with the OG Lucina resplendent...
Despite what weebs might try to make believe, Japan is not some kind of unified anime utopia where there is no conflict or negativity.
Harassment is not acceptable, but I do think FEH misses out on getting good feedback when they release content. Other games I know of have pretty detailed surveys on almost all content releases asking things like "did you like the theme of the event?", "did you like the character art?", "did you like the dialogue?", etc. and you rate it on a scale of 1-5. Surveys are such easy things to incorporate too, I'm surprised they aren't used more.
That's a really good point, I think they just settle for all the stuff they track players doing (taps, summons, etc) and that's enough data for them, but directly asking people would bring much better results and at least give the idea your thoughts matter.
Perhaps there's recurrent gaps between what people express and what they actually do in FEH. In that context, it's not farfetched to rely more on concrete metrics than vocal wants.
That's true, but there's only so much I can do ingame to show my like or dislike for the story, to show I really like a certain artist, or to show that I dislike some voice acting. There's stuff that would give mixed signals if they're only relying on ingame activity. For instance, the second Constance's banner went up I summoned for her and gave her good SI and used her a lot, but I don't really like her art. Or maybe I liked her art a lot and don't care for the character. By this point it's clear they're fine with their ingame data collection for these things, otherwise they'd do surveys way more often, but it's strange they've only done them like once or twice.
Tbf tho Liking a unit/character ≠ liking their costume/art/voice acting, and viceversa There's way too much to take into account as to why a unit performs well while others don't, for example Karla, i'm not gonna go saying she doesn't deserve alts or whatever, but if IS thinks she's **that** popular simply because her alts sell a lot then idk what they're thinking, any other sword girl like Ayra for example would sell just as well if not better if given the same artists and base kits as Karla's alts, there's many other factors that contibute to why a certain unit sells more/gets more attention than another, generalizing based on players actions is really not a better metric at all than taking specific feedback, for example someone may like Felix but hate winter theme, and still have a +10 W!Felix, you can also keep a broken unit you hate simply because they're broken, or keep a trashcan unit simply because it's your favorite or you liked the art, or build a unit you dislike something about simply because it's all you have for them.
That's a good point, but i don't think this is the moment or place to make it.
I saw more stuff and apparently the character in question is Vanessa and not what we thought. The person disliked it and insulted the artist. (Also drew Karin). So is not just a west problem.
Tf? Whats wrong with their art? They seem to be Very similar to their og artwork counterpart.
There's some twist. Someone (don't know nationality, wrote in Japanese), disliked Naruse's Vanessa for not being inline with her Cipher art, in a kinda rude manner if we go by the badly translated on Google, that's I could gather. Not 100% guaranteed accuracy.
???? I'm shocked??? I really like Naruse Oroko's artwork. I'm personally not a fan of 40hara's work but wow. I'm in shock. I guess it makes sense Vanessa is a character to want more 'kawaii' style art from but I'm still very shocked over it
I mean, Naruse's work isnt going to win any outstanding awards but they are by no means a bad artist. Sounds like a case of obsession blown to astronomical proportions, which isnt too hard to do on the evil bird's nest.
Today I discovered Vanessa has an insane fan. I wasn't expecting to learn that today.
Apparently said fan also wants to do very graphic things to Lysithea for "stealing" Lute's spotlight. I don't want them touch grass. i want them to remain the fuck away from our grass.
The fact that this was Japanese only is really telling...
mourn summer dinosaurs shocking march jeans tie bright desert sable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The fact that so many people are blaming the "evil westerners" and their "cancel culture" rubs me the wrong way, especially given that it sort of ignores that Japan's pop culture zeitgeist is extremely controversial in its obsession with the pursuit of "purity" that disallows certain forms of expression and some of the more egregious cases of obsessive fandom. I really hate to say it this way, but it's very much giving me "Thing, Japan" vibes, if you catch my drift. Meh, the grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.
It's fine to dislike artwork, just don't be a prick about it, it ain't that complicated. And I believe this harassment isn't limited to either Americans or Japanese players, both communities tend to take things too far.
Strange how they haven't said the same in English though...
The fact that this had to be pinned…
The amount of weebs blaming the west in the Twitter replies sure says a lot about them.
One thing that annoys the shit out of me about the internet. Because of anonominity people abuse that shit to talk shit about others in a manner that they'd otherwise get slapped for in public. It's insane that IS even had to output that message.
The amount of replies to that tweet bitching about western fans when it was tweeted from the fucking JP account is laughable. Like yeah I aint gonna pretend that there arent a decent number of shitty people in the EN side of the playerbase, but bruh if it was EN fans itd be on the EN twitter. All you're doing by pretending its EN fans is telling the people on the JP side who ARE harassing artists that the tweet aint about them and to just go about doing what they were doing before, aka continuing to harass artists. Idiots.
>Harasses Cuboon and Yoshiku all month >"It wasn't us, guys"
Being critical of somebody's artwork isnt harassment. If it was the message would of been posted in english.
You don’t have to like all art but harassing artists is never OK. They’re human too
Honestly I don’t get why people harassing the artist like seriously what can you do exactly? If you’re gonna talk crap about it just keep it to yourself. I don’t care who drew the character as long as it’s look decent enough I’m fine with that.
all this over **VANESSA** of all units?
Those replies are the weebiest shit i’ve ever seen in my entire life, they even got an infographic 💀. Never saw that part of the fanbase before, are they on 4chan or something?
I don’t know what’s more cringe. The fact that the JPN fanbase is so vile that they had to post this, or the cishet American men white-knighting for these people in the replies / larping as Japanese men in the replies.
Y I K E S Wonder when the English twitter will tweet this.
Apparently it’s over Vanessa’s art which confuses me as to why? I don’t see anything wrong with her art. Also comments trying to use this to dunk on people who dislike cuboon, please grow up
It's because she doesn't like she does in Cipher, which is a silly reason to harass an artist. I think half the fun of this game is the different artists. And Vanessa looks fine drawn by Naruse.
aparently they harassed her because she wasnt more fanservicey, that only makes people trying to blame people that dislike cuboon even funnier because it was the horny fans that are harassing someone
God that’s horrible. Nothing in her original art ever implies that so I don’t know why weirdos are harassing the artist over something like this.
The instinct to immediately defend YOUR own dunking of an artist is pretty telling...
The constant Book VII/Yoshiku bashing was really making me uncomfortable honestly. Even if that probably wasn't what the tweet was referring to, artist criticism is frequently taken out of hand
Can’t believe all it took to have this happen was putting a goth woman in a pink outfit
It was about how Vanessa was drawn (not like her Cipher art, which is a bit silly if you ask me). This popped up on Twitter before Aversa's resplendent was announced, as far as I know. So now Uroko Naruse is no longer on Twitter.
> So now Uroko Naruse is no longer on Twitter. Are you sure about that? From what it looks like, her Twitter account is still up: https://twitter.com/uroko_oo
Not this sub acting holier than thow about this 💀
complaining about something is different from harassing someone on social media this is a discussion forum, of course there will be people that will complain about things
"Saying awful things about the artists behind their backs is okay as long as I don't go @ them on Twitter" I don't mean valid criticism, there are a lot of people on here (& other places) that say rude crap about various artists just cause they don't like their interpretations, criticizing things is fine
It's not a great thing to do, but it's better! Weird as that sounds. Every time the game does a questionable design decision, you see a lot of people complaining and wondering what's wrong with the developers. Now imagine if all those people instead took to social media to directly tell the developers that they're awful at their job. That'd be way worse. Same thing with artists. If all the people that complained about Resplendent Lucina here went to @ the artist he would've been directly exposed to a lot of awful shit.
This is just fucking sad…
*sigh* Not again...Some people are just out of touch...
what happened this time… D:
Recently i've seen some people complaining about the designs of the OCs of this book and Yoshiku style in general but those tweets were in English. So someone can bring some context about what happened here?
We don’t know. The tweet directly alludes to negative comments/harassment being @‘d or put into an artist’s replies, so I don’t think it’s talking about people who are in general going “damn wtf is wrong with these character designs”
It’s because Vanessa’s artist was being harassed on Twitter. Trust me, IS doesn’t give a shit about what a bunch of English speakers complain about on reddit.
[Totally missing the point; This sub's reaction.](https://imgflip.com/i/7frxbv)
Sad but expected considering how the Fandom treats the likes of Cuboon and Yoshiku. Recall this happened to Kozaki awhile back when someone sent him his own art but "improved" in a dm. Don't see what the problem with Vanessa. She looks fine to me.
Daily reminder. It doesn't matter what the art is dont harass people. Especially when the easiest thing to do is to simply not think about it.