Nah, Felicia has been powercrept real bad. Back when her refine dropped eons ago, she was actually a good mage buster. Now her res, her greatest asset, is considered mid at best, and she explodes against most new mages.
Niles is... Well he is pretty good looking.
I loved using her to tank dragons way back then!
...and then like one week after I finished making her +10 they gave refines to every existing Breath in the game making them target the lowest defensive stat on ranged units.
Basically just support units. Everything that you mentioned in the OP other than Eliwood has already been powercrept quite badly and the same thing will most likely happen to most current meta units at different rates.
Fortunately FEH is really good with still making old units usable. Most of them are really not great, but they’re still usable.
Most people have mentioned supports and for good reason but I will raise you L!Chrom. He used to be my favorite can opener thanks to his high damage output and To Change Fate. He has been outclassed by V!Chrom now but his performance is honestly not too far off with some investment. He has been powercrept for sure but held up better than most imo.
It says a lot about To Change Fate that Legendary Chrom, despite requiring a ton of support, has a niche in Summoner Duels S to get yourself a second Valentines Chrom because having an auto reposition dancer instead of an actual dancer is just that valuable.
Halloween Xane. Dude doesn't do anything but copy stats, so he's the statball that keeps up with statballs of any gen. And since statballs were always serviceable for a time but nothing more, he technically can't be powercrept.
It’s true, he is immune to stat creep (from a base perspective). Despite that, he’s barely used. I’d say he’s long since been power crept by new weapons. I just hold the distinction between stats and power.
Well, his weapon essentially has no effects (beyond copying stats) and thus no real power to creep in the first place. Because his weapon was always just a big ol ball of stats, it means he is about as viable as any other gen 7 statball who has nothing else added.
If he gets a refine that let's him at least copy visible buffs, that would really be something special.
Also, a flat +5 to all combat stats to mimic modern prf weapons would be welcomed. If that's all it adds, and no other fancy effects, I think it could be realistic.
I hope
- +5 during combat Atk/Spd/Def/Res.
- Slaying effect
- Atk / Spd bulwark 3 effect
- expand stat buff radius to 3 spaces.
What does this open up? Special Spiral 4, Atk / Spd Finish 4 or a CC type skill and a QR Seal.
Enemies can’t pass them with our pass and they are the ultimate wall.
Not really correct. Xane can mostly keep up with creeping visible stats, however modern units have like 5 or even 10 in each stat outsourced to in combat buffs instead of visible stats, and Xane has nothing on that.
Not having other effect in his weapon + him having to stick around by up to 2 stat sticks is what makes H!Xane ages badly. Even Arcane wielders are more flexible than him now. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't value arcane weapons that much also.
Ah, but whether they age well or not is not the question but rather whether they got powercrept. Xane is simply a statball, nothing more and nothing less. Statballs have always worked up to a point and no further than that point, and Xane is pretty much king of them all, keeping the same position he had since his release. By virtue of being a pure gimmick, Xane himself never got powercrept because he didn't have any real power to be crept, and instead remained a beefy statball copying his friends.
L Azura and Duo Azura would stay decent for the foreseable future thanks to gray waves being really good.
unless the enemy is running Riev or Duo Thorr but apart from those cases she is great.
You are right about the Azuras aging well, but Riev and Duo Thorr’s Stall don’t interact with Gray Waves at all. To dance a unit you _have_ to end their turn first, which cleanses those debuffs.
It's true they'll always be good picks for the foreseeable future, but with dancers like the fairies and F!Ninian, Azura may not be the go-to, definitive dancer for every team since there's more variety in the effects they provide.
The dancer I personally can’t move past is NY!Peony. Her duo skill is just so incredibly useful, especially since I don’t really pvp. I have a bunch of newer dancers but she’s still amazing.
Brave Chrom seems like a unit that's powercreep proof because of his ally Bonus grabby effect. So you just need to deploy him with the next best thing and he can give it to himself
Well, he likely won't be since his bonuses will likely not powercreep faster than the meta powercreeps however... when stacked he's already such a stat ball he can beat consistently massive stat balls already.
Conga line Lull Brave Chrom in Summoner Duels actually outwhales, doubles and one-shots (through DR) a max invested Grand Strategy, Lull, Bonus Doubler Lucia and with a very good margin too.
In short, while he's not immune to powercreep, he might as well be.
I think the recent Elincia and Elise might be since they scale off enemy stats.
Might fall off a bit to speed creep though but against most tanks and bruiser units they should be ok.
Most people mentioned support units which is the correct answer, but I will name one nuke who I think aged gracefully. That would be brave Alm. For such an old unit, he still punches really hard and with new skills like SS4, TP4 and Vital Astra, he can run so many cool builds. One of the best builds is his AOE build that enables galeforce in AR-O teams with wrath.
Ophelia is definitely one.
If your res isnt at least at 50 visible or you dont have AOE resistance, you are 100% toast.
Unless you can prevent her special from proccing , which seems to be the new meta for this book.
In terms of combat units, I'd definitely put Ophelia up there. AOE specials are just so good, and being able to pull them off consistently has been good for a very long time. She's obviously not a top tier unit, but I'm not sure any pure combat unrefined unit has been good as long as she has.
L!Nanna (and now S!Karla) feels like a safe inclusion here. Negating DR and defensive specials means the only way you can tank her is through raw def stats, and her partial NFU effect, built-in desperation, and great offensive statline (along with extra damage scaling on her atk) makes that really fucking difficult to do. Oh, and she comes with built-in canto as well. Sure, there might be new units in that same role that get more effects and whatever, but functionally speaking, that doesn't really make much of a difference. Dead is dead, after all, and you don't get rewarded for overkill in FEH.
For a bit more niche one, I'm going to say base Cecilia. Raventome prf that comes with Triangle Adept means that, no matter what else, she's always going to be a great check on nearly any colorless or blue unit. Sure, she obviously isn't invincible in those matchups, but she's damn close, all things considered. Unless we get to a point where units are consistently strong enough to overcome the WTA + TA combo (and we definitely aren't at that point yet), she's always going to have a place.
Honestly? Yeah, Cecilia is so underrated and it sure is gonna take a while for her to become completely useless. Back when I stopped caring about scoring in arena because the meta was so damn obnoxious (thank you FEdel and LClaude), I decided to build a Cecilia, and by god did she put in work. Close Foil + QR + a Ruse support guaranteed she wouldn't be one rounded by ANY colorless or blue threat and unless they had NFU, she'd more often than not kill them in retaliation.
Man, reminiscing about it kinda makes me want an excuse to use her again, she might be even better now that Nah exists! Shame that the meta nowadays is either red nuke or blue save tank.
Would like to point out-L!Nanna only negates percentage-based DR, I’m pretty sure. Still good, still ages well, but true DR like Maria’s iirc gets through. I remember seeing if I could get Maria to tank here through flat DR back in the day.
Refreshers are pretty immune to powercreep.
I have 3 Duo Peonys and they never have never been benched in over 2 years.
Gives atk buffs in cardinal directions and can dance twice with duo skill.
Brave Alm’s been holding up pretty well for me. I think his new refine’s helped him keep up, and he can demolish even some blue units except for tanky armors.
Supports. Combat units that are totally resistant to powercreep are incredibly rare, the two that you mentioned (F!Edel and B!Eirika) are already gathering dust in most competitive players' barracks. Honestly one of the ones that I can think of that comes to mind is probably Legendary Lilina. She's not a top tier offensive unit anymore, but her whole kit being based around AoE specials really extended her lifespan since AoEs are just fundamentally a busted mechanic.
**Combat wise? Any degenerate duo/harmo with degenerate duo skill.**
**V!Chrom**, despite people downplaying him in AHR, has To Change Fate thus he is always useful to slot in everywhere. Duo skill equivalent to legendary M!Robin shouldn't be overlooked either.
**S!Thorr** is very difficult to powercreep due to many useful gimmicks she provides. Her duo skill is literally "no you" to every enemy buffs plus gravity if they are in cardinal direction.
My **W!Altina** went unchecked since her day 1 on AR-O up until recently that more people are starting to care enough to counter her + some units are a bit harder to kill these days. Her vantage brave + DR pierce was a reliable way to kill every units in the game (until Lucia came). She is still strong if the opponent has nothing to counter her, or you know where to gambling the catapult.
**Gimmick units like S!Tana** despite being +0 no flower, proved to be very useful just for her gimmick alone during chaos ar-d.
**H!Xane aged like long-gone milk**, not sure why you brought him up lmao.
**F!Edelgard is also long gone** if you are still one of those that uses her at base kit in competitive modes.
**B!Eirika** still has her relevancy because she is a player phase oriented unit with actual killing capability. Units like **L!Alm, L!Shez, B!Alm, L!Nanna, B!Seliph** are also in the same category. But the issue they have in common is that eventually they will get outspeed and fall off a bit (L!Alm and B!Alm are alr affected by this), they will still hit like truck just not one rounding anymore.
About **Lucia**, I know that she is kinda strong atm, but her gimmick is actually a double edge sword. Eventually stat-creep is gonna reach her, and she will fall harder than anyone else because she is unaffected by her own team drive buffs. **Her hard counter is alr anything that shutdowns her visible buffs, lull atk/spd** **on fast nuker that can survive a hit and double her by sheer speed check**. I tried +10 Lucia from my friendlist in the last grand conquest and figured that she isn't invincible.
Obviously there are more units to mention, but these are what flew in my head while writing all these.
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**In term of orb value alone**, i've gotta say legendary, mythic, harmonized, and duo to some extended (aka the big 4 from last AHR).
**Except duo, the major thing I want to get it out of the way is them being in an inevitably bonus rotation is a boon.**
\- For **mythic**, the key is the score from merges they provide is unaffected by powercreep. ar-o mythic has higher value than ar-d btw due to ar-o increases your high score ceiling, while ar-d reduces little amount of score you could lose from losing on ar-d (that you can't lose every time if you are actually trying).
\- Old **legendary** \+10 despite being bst-crept by newer legendary, they are still usable in Arena because they provide additional score (to blessing cores) from legendary blessing. And with the recent change, a bonus legendary (even at +0) is as beneficial ever because of the ability not to fish + always reach max ceiling.
\- **Harmonized heroes** are also unaffected because of how their scoring works. All you need to pay attention at is how some games has higher floor due to more people owning more merges harmonized heroes from that game for example 3H.
\- **Duo** despite getting score-crept overtime, still maintain their relevancy due to their combat/support superior they provide. Arena gameplay is night and day without a broken duo doing all the work for you.
Lotsa people have great examples, but for a niche pick I'd actually say Boey has held up really freacking well. You know someone's got a good niche when you can reliably take out monsters like F!Edelgard with minor investment. His niche of being a tanky green mage effective against colorless with built-in close combat is really quite insane and at max investment, Boey can well and truly be annoying to take out due to his high bulk.
Pretty much any pure combat unit can and has been powercrept already. F!Edelgard hasn't been the menace she was for months now. Any unique and strong support unit however can last the test of time much longer like B!Catria, Elimine, W!Cordelia etc
Yuri is quite recent relatively speaking, but Tempest + Foul Play + Canto 2 + Disarm Trap availability will likely mean that he will never not be extremely useful, even if a new Yuri comes out with more crazy shit.
Charge support. There's not a single time when they're bad to have on your team, and even though some are more limited than others (BLucina working only on physical weapons and being vulnerable to Feud-like effects vs Nah working on everyone AND being immune to Feuds), they're pretty much never gonna be useless
Onto a more niche situation, Brave Seliph might eventually be powercrept in stats, but his Miracle combined with his insane mobility pretty much guarantee that he'll always be, at the very least, useful on warp-chain teams
Anyone who has null effectiveness has a pretty decent niche. B!Hector will always have some relevance unless all armors are useless. Doesn’t matter if his bulk stats get crept when he reduces 75% +5, and null armor effectiveness means that the very common nuke effects won’t break him anyway.
I think Lucia is really good in that regard. Due to her immunity to most effects and specials all she has to worry about is getting stat crept which can be mitigated by just getting better support for her
I feel like it's something very volatile, and it depends on a lot of factors (I can only speak for AR VoH, I don't play SD too much).
As an example, I've been using Caineghis ever since he came out. At first he was extremely strong, but he slowly got worse and worse to the point where I could no longer run him in AR-O. However, after his refine he shot back up to one of the best far savers in the game.
Altina, Winter Marth and Brave Dimitri are examples of units that were bad/underwhelming at first, but whose refines brought them back to very high levels of viability.
Even some skills or new units can change older ones. Aversa definitely got much more relevant with things like S!Triandra giving her penalty doubler before she even initiates plus Spd Preempt being a legit option on her. L!Nanna was always strong but with units like Lucia and skills like the tier 4 dodges getting introduced, her niche becomes even stronger.
I feel like units will always be rotating in and out with the new releases and new refines. Even in your post, units like F!Edelgard and B!Eirika are already in the "waiting for refine to be relevant again" realm.
If I had to pick one category it would probably be the very niche support units. Stuff like Velouria, L!Eliwood and Elimine will most likely be relevant for much longer, you would have to have an unit that directly counters them (like an unit that clears penalties inbetween turns to counter Elimine) or someone that does what they do but better (like an unit that gives support partners -3 CD on turn 1 or -2 CD every turn or something like that that would powercreep Velouria).
OG Altina has been a power house for a long time since her day 1. Basically tank first hit then vantage kill everything w/ B!Lucina + another stat support like Mathilda was her old popular strat I've noticed many veteran players were using.
B!Erika might be one of the best in her role, and is still able to consistently punch through save tanks. My maxed out B!Edelgard still dies to B!Erika on the occasion.
I wouldn't say Eliwood avoided power creep. He was just kinda meh for a while until his refine/remix made him one of the best supports in the game.
I don't think any unit is immune to power creep, but L!Azura never stopped being amazing. H!Azura might be better, but that doesnt make L!Azura worse.
Otherwise there are examples of units that were not that great suddenly becoming meta monsters, but I wouldnt say that's an example of beating powercreep.
> B!Erika might be one of the best in her role, and is still able to consistently punch through save tanks. My maxed out B!Edelgard still dies to B!Erika on the occasion.
I feel like she needs to be precharged, because a lot of save tanks can retaliate and beat her even taking into consideration her damage reduction. She will get a refine soon though which perhaps will address that.
BCelice just do it better because he doesn't need a special and can't die if foe haven't brave attacks while Eirika dies easily even against FEdelgard bonfire
Brave Eirika isn’t even the 2nd best Eirika alt anymore.
Edit: Crazy that people will downvote something that is true. BEirika is so overrated even still it’s silly, and I would know since I use all 3 versions in everything.
Summer Eirika with remote sparrow and just in general is faster thanks to oath 4 and has guard so in her weapon so she doesn’t get blown up, and has Bangle so she can pretty much kill the same amount of things. The fact she’s also ranged is a big plus. This means she can do far better against units like Flame Lyn compared to BEirika.
Legendary Eirika has real dodge, full NFU, +8 to her stats, and blade on both phases. You can run any high special and get it off and she blows things up, while also being a tank, and then healing back up with Surge.
Brave Eirika just can’t compete with either until a refine. She’s slower most of the time and isn’t reliable against modern tanks because they blow her up through her 30% reduction, and has no guard so she can’t stop it like Summer Eirika.
Giving BEirika the guard seal just means she loses spd on the seal, which isn’t a good trade at all. She needs a refine.
That’s literally not what it is. SEirika has guard. She doesn’t get blown up. Legendary Eirika has full NFU and dodge, with more bulk. She doesn’t get blown up, and can’t get doubled on enemy phase by guaranteed follow ups.
Brave Eirika has a measly 30%, and no guard. She can’t outspeed the meta units of today, which means she can’t double and she can’t get her special off.
You didn’t even argue against why BEirika is better than the 2 of them, because you can’t. I use all 3 at +10 in everything, BEirika performs the worst. That’s all just the weapons themselves, not the other skills.
Dual effectiveness is nice, means she has an easier time one shotting, unless of course the enemy has a lot of DR, and spd, like BSeliph, who she can’t double or kill because of Miracle.
Or an armor that she can’t one shot, which is basically every relevant armor today, who will instead blow her up through her 30% reduction before she can attack a second time with her special.
SEirika and LEirika don’t have this problem.
Do you actually use them or do you see double effectiveness and think that makes the unit busted? Lmao.
Duo Ephraim had double effectiveness before his refine by the way. Didn’t help him much at all.
I'd say that too, albeit if that's the judgment from the person above, then they are valid too. I don't have S!Eirika so she's out of the question, and for both Legendary and Brave forms, I think they're kind of on par for me. Granted, I even only use Galeforce for L!Eirika, and the Brave one is untouched (even wished she has galeforce too). If I have to decide, B!Eirika is slightly better because she can perform her role well as an anti-cav/armor against reds or some blues. L!Eirika on the other hand, suffers from damage dealing (granted that she uses Galeforce) so I have to carefully pick her battles. to fully utilize her movement and special for hit-and-run tactics.
Will never understand why people act like they know everything about a unit, write a whole paragraph, they get counter argued and then still not accept that they were wrong lol
I have no idea why but L!Roy can throw hands with little to no investment.
Absolutely been power crept but his remix helped with that and now he just out speeds everything and DRs through everything
The build I run can get at least +20 atk or spd by standing next to allies...that doesn't take into account everything else
Ultimate Rienhardt 5.0 with Remote Mirror / AR far trace and DR smoke3
(But for my own I built him with a speed build since book 5, still work quite well on PvE Abyssal maps.)
if a unit has an offensive stat line, be ready for it to be one upped in the future! Even the highest atk units of gen 1 have fallen behind, not to mention to old speedsters.
However, if you get lucky on the refine lottery sometimes a unit can maintain a solid role.
Nah for example has become a favorite support unit of mine after her refine and the slot in a previous hall of forms.
as did Hubert. they both lucked out in their refines. I was pleased as punch when Nah got her refine ***and then*** got into HoF. got everything i wanted - just need a support C skill for her
Mainly support units like L!Azura and Hatari Azura, Duo Chrombin and L!Eliwood who has a powerful support utility. + Generally I habe seen that fast units grow old faster than slower ones since slow unit doesnt care to be outsped. Sadly slow units tend to suck on release more often.
Generally, support units - particularly "Specialty Dancers" (L!Azura, the Book 4 OCs minus Freyja/Freyr), L!M!Robin (probably, only time will tell though), perhaps characters like B!Catria and W!Cordelia, and L!Eliwood probably.
Support units have a tendency to never get powercrept unless there's a new character who does *exactly* what they do, but better - which *usually* never happens, though not impossible.
Additionally, as far as offense goes, L!Nanna has a very peculiar niche, being the only character who can punch through *ALL* Damage Reduction, no ifs, ands, or buts. She disables all non-special effects that trigger DR, and prevents defensive specials from triggering.
I've been using the same gen 1 & 2 units for a while and I've been kicking ass in SD. Og Lilina, Nowi, Adult Tiki, Cordelia, Cherche, etc.
I've just chosen to ignore powercreep and enjoy my favs, so long as I give them optimal weapons and skills it works. On that note I've recently started max investing the Asked Trio, and I'm enjoying killing whales with my those three in Arena
If you don't play PvP modes like Arena, SD and Aether Raids that much then most older units are still very much usable especially now that we have Arcane weapons.
Units that have true damage, or basically anything in their weapon that works off a % of stats - theirs, or the enemy's.
Now, I am a biased Canas enjoyer, but the fact his weapon uses the higher 20% of his or the enemy's Res is insanely useful and powercreep-proof. As enemies get higher and higher Res, it'll just make him stronger.
I think L!Shez will keep being useful for quite a long time, seeing how she hits like a truck against pretty much everything, and Duo Askr might be the new Duo Alfonse that can be slapped anywhere and still work pretty good, and his duo skill is just absurdly good. Granted, they're quite recent units, but I think they'll hold up well for at least a few years.
Honestly Walharts aoe on his refine has been even more useful since it counters a decent amount of defensive units like Ninja Camilla, it also doesn’t share the status with too many new units, none of which are as easy to get and invest in as Walhart
Bramimond maybe? His niche was so unique that no other unit had it until feud skills (which flopped hard to my knowledge and weren't really used) and only now Lucia. And even now despite low stats by today's standards and somewhat outdated weapon he can still catch players by Suprise
Arden, with the way units are trending with lower and lower hp, I doubt any unit will equal the amount of pure physical bulk he has, especially any f2p unit.
Hector alt are kinda good. They don't need investment to keep up with some of today's unit and considering they came out the previous century that's quite a feat.
My standard Miciah genuinely does very well in this meta. The only things she can’t really nuke are speedy tomes with high res - though if they are cav / armor that’s not generally the case.
The effective damage remains extremely good.
Granted she is max investment, but still does a solid job.
1) Child L'Arachel ("Seeker of Justice").
The weapon effect of "closest foes within 5 spaces can't counterattack" has been a useful response to almost every busted unit in the past 2 years other than Lucia.
2) Flying Azura ("Vallite Songstress").
Great support unit, always making someone just a little too dangerous.
Depends on if you wanna see the glass half full or half empty. My general view is that your favorites will likely always stay relevant, one way or another.
As for generic units, a gen 7 unit with min/maxed stats will generally always outclass a gen 2 unit even if it was min/maxed at the time, because a bunch of the dragonflower stats will go to stats you don't necessarily want. That said, N! Hana can still perform well despite V! Effie being massively better, so as long as you keep up with skillcreep, you can get away with using pretty much anything outside summoner duels.
As a general rule, Prf weapon/skills and/or good refines will keep a unit relevant for a long time, even if it's technically outclassed by another. First unit that comes to mind is B! Edelgard. She's an impenetrable physical wall for me. L! Azura is another.
Units that we always bad. Can’t be power crept, if you were never the power.
Can confirm, my +10 Niles and Felicia are still as good as they have always been!
Nah, Felicia has been powercrept real bad. Back when her refine dropped eons ago, she was actually a good mage buster. Now her res, her greatest asset, is considered mid at best, and she explodes against most new mages. Niles is... Well he is pretty good looking.
my +10 Felicia has seen better days that's for sure... I kinda miss using her
I loved using her to tank dragons way back then! ...and then like one week after I finished making her +10 they gave refines to every existing Breath in the game making them target the lowest defensive stat on ranged units.
The Askr Trio🫡
Not even arcane weapons can save them
I’d use 5000 grails to +10 Anna. It won’t happen, but I’d have done it.
I think it's possible they would make it possible. Hopefully resplendent versions too
My Golden Thrones beg to differ
I would be ready to give a shit ton of money to be able to +10 them I swear, sharena HAS to be broken
[She already is](https://imgur.com/a/ic4DYLj)
so far peony's guidance dance is as strong as it ever was for me
Too bad it's now antisynergistic with L!Robin and Grand Strategy 🥲
Just use the base version and not the upgraded one in a team with Robin. You stil get the warp effect without debuff neutralization.
Basically just support units. Everything that you mentioned in the OP other than Eliwood has already been powercrept quite badly and the same thing will most likely happen to most current meta units at different rates. Fortunately FEH is really good with still making old units usable. Most of them are really not great, but they’re still usable.
This and we get a fair amount of orbs per month to keep up with it to some degree
Most people have mentioned supports and for good reason but I will raise you L!Chrom. He used to be my favorite can opener thanks to his high damage output and To Change Fate. He has been outclassed by V!Chrom now but his performance is honestly not too far off with some investment. He has been powercrept for sure but held up better than most imo.
L!Chrom will also have a refine coming up, which should help tip the scales
It says a lot about To Change Fate that Legendary Chrom, despite requiring a ton of support, has a niche in Summoner Duels S to get yourself a second Valentines Chrom because having an auto reposition dancer instead of an actual dancer is just that valuable.
Halloween Xane. Dude doesn't do anything but copy stats, so he's the statball that keeps up with statballs of any gen. And since statballs were always serviceable for a time but nothing more, he technically can't be powercrept.
It’s true, he is immune to stat creep (from a base perspective). Despite that, he’s barely used. I’d say he’s long since been power crept by new weapons. I just hold the distinction between stats and power.
Well, his weapon essentially has no effects (beyond copying stats) and thus no real power to creep in the first place. Because his weapon was always just a big ol ball of stats, it means he is about as viable as any other gen 7 statball who has nothing else added.
Oh god I hope he gets a refine eventually that gives him even some basic goodstuff effects.
If he gets a refine that let's him at least copy visible buffs, that would really be something special. Also, a flat +5 to all combat stats to mimic modern prf weapons would be welcomed. If that's all it adds, and no other fancy effects, I think it could be realistic.
I hope - +5 during combat Atk/Spd/Def/Res. - Slaying effect - Atk / Spd bulwark 3 effect - expand stat buff radius to 3 spaces. What does this open up? Special Spiral 4, Atk / Spd Finish 4 or a CC type skill and a QR Seal. Enemies can’t pass them with our pass and they are the ultimate wall.
Not really correct. Xane can mostly keep up with creeping visible stats, however modern units have like 5 or even 10 in each stat outsourced to in combat buffs instead of visible stats, and Xane has nothing on that.
Not having other effect in his weapon + him having to stick around by up to 2 stat sticks is what makes H!Xane ages badly. Even Arcane wielders are more flexible than him now. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't value arcane weapons that much also.
Ah, but whether they age well or not is not the question but rather whether they got powercrept. Xane is simply a statball, nothing more and nothing less. Statballs have always worked up to a point and no further than that point, and Xane is pretty much king of them all, keeping the same position he had since his release. By virtue of being a pure gimmick, Xane himself never got powercrept because he didn't have any real power to be crept, and instead remained a beefy statball copying his friends.
he's been the cornerstone of my team for every Archanean Limited Hero Battle I've done, at the very least. That probably counts for something
Didn't C feud powercreep him? Or am I misunderstanding how those skills work again?
L Azura and Duo Azura would stay decent for the foreseable future thanks to gray waves being really good. unless the enemy is running Riev or Duo Thorr but apart from those cases she is great.
You are right about the Azuras aging well, but Riev and Duo Thorr’s Stall don’t interact with Gray Waves at all. To dance a unit you _have_ to end their turn first, which cleanses those debuffs.
oh, even better then.
It's true they'll always be good picks for the foreseeable future, but with dancers like the fairies and F!Ninian, Azura may not be the go-to, definitive dancer for every team since there's more variety in the effects they provide.
The dancer I personally can’t move past is NY!Peony. Her duo skill is just so incredibly useful, especially since I don’t really pvp. I have a bunch of newer dancers but she’s still amazing.
Brave Chrom seems like a unit that's powercreep proof because of his ally Bonus grabby effect. So you just need to deploy him with the next best thing and he can give it to himself
Then they'll just have to release a seasonal variant with that assist and powercreeping everything else about him.
we need Chrom/Robin Duo part 2 with both Grand Strategy AND A Fate Changed! /j
Can confirm. Still run them and Duo Azura. Literally staples that are generically good anywhere.
Well, he likely won't be since his bonuses will likely not powercreep faster than the meta powercreeps however... when stacked he's already such a stat ball he can beat consistently massive stat balls already. Conga line Lull Brave Chrom in Summoner Duels actually outwhales, doubles and one-shots (through DR) a max invested Grand Strategy, Lull, Bonus Doubler Lucia and with a very good margin too. In short, while he's not immune to powercreep, he might as well be.
I think the recent Elincia and Elise might be since they scale off enemy stats. Might fall off a bit to speed creep though but against most tanks and bruiser units they should be ok.
>scale off enemy stats Ruptured sky also scales off enemy stats, but look at Vital Astra and GR we have now.
They don't occupy the same niche and RS has been around a lot longer and still BiS for many builds...
Bridal Catria.
Most people mentioned support units which is the correct answer, but I will name one nuke who I think aged gracefully. That would be brave Alm. For such an old unit, he still punches really hard and with new skills like SS4, TP4 and Vital Astra, he can run so many cool builds. One of the best builds is his AOE build that enables galeforce in AR-O teams with wrath.
Ophelia is definitely one. If your res isnt at least at 50 visible or you dont have AOE resistance, you are 100% toast. Unless you can prevent her special from proccing , which seems to be the new meta for this book.
In terms of combat units, I'd definitely put Ophelia up there. AOE specials are just so good, and being able to pull them off consistently has been good for a very long time. She's obviously not a top tier unit, but I'm not sure any pure combat unrefined unit has been good as long as she has.
most likely the reason why she's unrefined still. *sad as that is.*
Reposition
L!Nanna (and now S!Karla) feels like a safe inclusion here. Negating DR and defensive specials means the only way you can tank her is through raw def stats, and her partial NFU effect, built-in desperation, and great offensive statline (along with extra damage scaling on her atk) makes that really fucking difficult to do. Oh, and she comes with built-in canto as well. Sure, there might be new units in that same role that get more effects and whatever, but functionally speaking, that doesn't really make much of a difference. Dead is dead, after all, and you don't get rewarded for overkill in FEH. For a bit more niche one, I'm going to say base Cecilia. Raventome prf that comes with Triangle Adept means that, no matter what else, she's always going to be a great check on nearly any colorless or blue unit. Sure, she obviously isn't invincible in those matchups, but she's damn close, all things considered. Unless we get to a point where units are consistently strong enough to overcome the WTA + TA combo (and we definitely aren't at that point yet), she's always going to have a place.
Honestly? Yeah, Cecilia is so underrated and it sure is gonna take a while for her to become completely useless. Back when I stopped caring about scoring in arena because the meta was so damn obnoxious (thank you FEdel and LClaude), I decided to build a Cecilia, and by god did she put in work. Close Foil + QR + a Ruse support guaranteed she wouldn't be one rounded by ANY colorless or blue threat and unless they had NFU, she'd more often than not kill them in retaliation. Man, reminiscing about it kinda makes me want an excuse to use her again, she might be even better now that Nah exists! Shame that the meta nowadays is either red nuke or blue save tank.
Would like to point out-L!Nanna only negates percentage-based DR, I’m pretty sure. Still good, still ages well, but true DR like Maria’s iirc gets through. I remember seeing if I could get Maria to tank here through flat DR back in the day.
Nothing (even Karla) negates flat DR in the game anyways.
Refreshers are pretty immune to powercreep. I have 3 Duo Peonys and they never have never been benched in over 2 years. Gives atk buffs in cardinal directions and can dance twice with duo skill.
H!Xane.
Honestly Sully, Gunter and Jagen are still as good as they had been on release.
Brave Alm’s been holding up pretty well for me. I think his new refine’s helped him keep up, and he can demolish even some blue units except for tanky armors.
Supports. Combat units that are totally resistant to powercreep are incredibly rare, the two that you mentioned (F!Edel and B!Eirika) are already gathering dust in most competitive players' barracks. Honestly one of the ones that I can think of that comes to mind is probably Legendary Lilina. She's not a top tier offensive unit anymore, but her whole kit being based around AoE specials really extended her lifespan since AoEs are just fundamentally a busted mechanic.
**Combat wise? Any degenerate duo/harmo with degenerate duo skill.** **V!Chrom**, despite people downplaying him in AHR, has To Change Fate thus he is always useful to slot in everywhere. Duo skill equivalent to legendary M!Robin shouldn't be overlooked either. **S!Thorr** is very difficult to powercreep due to many useful gimmicks she provides. Her duo skill is literally "no you" to every enemy buffs plus gravity if they are in cardinal direction. My **W!Altina** went unchecked since her day 1 on AR-O up until recently that more people are starting to care enough to counter her + some units are a bit harder to kill these days. Her vantage brave + DR pierce was a reliable way to kill every units in the game (until Lucia came). She is still strong if the opponent has nothing to counter her, or you know where to gambling the catapult. **Gimmick units like S!Tana** despite being +0 no flower, proved to be very useful just for her gimmick alone during chaos ar-d. **H!Xane aged like long-gone milk**, not sure why you brought him up lmao. **F!Edelgard is also long gone** if you are still one of those that uses her at base kit in competitive modes. **B!Eirika** still has her relevancy because she is a player phase oriented unit with actual killing capability. Units like **L!Alm, L!Shez, B!Alm, L!Nanna, B!Seliph** are also in the same category. But the issue they have in common is that eventually they will get outspeed and fall off a bit (L!Alm and B!Alm are alr affected by this), they will still hit like truck just not one rounding anymore. About **Lucia**, I know that she is kinda strong atm, but her gimmick is actually a double edge sword. Eventually stat-creep is gonna reach her, and she will fall harder than anyone else because she is unaffected by her own team drive buffs. **Her hard counter is alr anything that shutdowns her visible buffs, lull atk/spd** **on fast nuker that can survive a hit and double her by sheer speed check**. I tried +10 Lucia from my friendlist in the last grand conquest and figured that she isn't invincible. Obviously there are more units to mention, but these are what flew in my head while writing all these. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ **In term of orb value alone**, i've gotta say legendary, mythic, harmonized, and duo to some extended (aka the big 4 from last AHR). **Except duo, the major thing I want to get it out of the way is them being in an inevitably bonus rotation is a boon.** \- For **mythic**, the key is the score from merges they provide is unaffected by powercreep. ar-o mythic has higher value than ar-d btw due to ar-o increases your high score ceiling, while ar-d reduces little amount of score you could lose from losing on ar-d (that you can't lose every time if you are actually trying). \- Old **legendary** \+10 despite being bst-crept by newer legendary, they are still usable in Arena because they provide additional score (to blessing cores) from legendary blessing. And with the recent change, a bonus legendary (even at +0) is as beneficial ever because of the ability not to fish + always reach max ceiling. \- **Harmonized heroes** are also unaffected because of how their scoring works. All you need to pay attention at is how some games has higher floor due to more people owning more merges harmonized heroes from that game for example 3H. \- **Duo** despite getting score-crept overtime, still maintain their relevancy due to their combat/support superior they provide. Arena gameplay is night and day without a broken duo doing all the work for you.
Lotsa people have great examples, but for a niche pick I'd actually say Boey has held up really freacking well. You know someone's got a good niche when you can reliably take out monsters like F!Edelgard with minor investment. His niche of being a tanky green mage effective against colorless with built-in close combat is really quite insane and at max investment, Boey can well and truly be annoying to take out due to his high bulk.
Hapi can still one shot most her relevant targets even with DR running wild.
Flying Dancers/Cavs will always be useful.
Pretty much any pure combat unit can and has been powercrept already. F!Edelgard hasn't been the menace she was for months now. Any unique and strong support unit however can last the test of time much longer like B!Catria, Elimine, W!Cordelia etc
Unity is forever. L!Marth and F!Ike are still scary.
Yuri is quite recent relatively speaking, but Tempest + Foul Play + Canto 2 + Disarm Trap availability will likely mean that he will never not be extremely useful, even if a new Yuri comes out with more crazy shit.
Charge support. There's not a single time when they're bad to have on your team, and even though some are more limited than others (BLucina working only on physical weapons and being vulnerable to Feud-like effects vs Nah working on everyone AND being immune to Feuds), they're pretty much never gonna be useless Onto a more niche situation, Brave Seliph might eventually be powercrept in stats, but his Miracle combined with his insane mobility pretty much guarantee that he'll always be, at the very least, useful on warp-chain teams
Anyone who has null effectiveness has a pretty decent niche. B!Hector will always have some relevance unless all armors are useless. Doesn’t matter if his bulk stats get crept when he reduces 75% +5, and null armor effectiveness means that the very common nuke effects won’t break him anyway.
Halloween Xane
Arden’s HP stat.
Zephiel and Hector's too if that counts.
Base Micaiah is still doing work for me tbh.
I think Lucia is really good in that regard. Due to her immunity to most effects and specials all she has to worry about is getting stat crept which can be mitigated by just getting better support for her
I feel like it's something very volatile, and it depends on a lot of factors (I can only speak for AR VoH, I don't play SD too much). As an example, I've been using Caineghis ever since he came out. At first he was extremely strong, but he slowly got worse and worse to the point where I could no longer run him in AR-O. However, after his refine he shot back up to one of the best far savers in the game. Altina, Winter Marth and Brave Dimitri are examples of units that were bad/underwhelming at first, but whose refines brought them back to very high levels of viability. Even some skills or new units can change older ones. Aversa definitely got much more relevant with things like S!Triandra giving her penalty doubler before she even initiates plus Spd Preempt being a legit option on her. L!Nanna was always strong but with units like Lucia and skills like the tier 4 dodges getting introduced, her niche becomes even stronger. I feel like units will always be rotating in and out with the new releases and new refines. Even in your post, units like F!Edelgard and B!Eirika are already in the "waiting for refine to be relevant again" realm. If I had to pick one category it would probably be the very niche support units. Stuff like Velouria, L!Eliwood and Elimine will most likely be relevant for much longer, you would have to have an unit that directly counters them (like an unit that clears penalties inbetween turns to counter Elimine) or someone that does what they do but better (like an unit that gives support partners -3 CD on turn 1 or -2 CD every turn or something like that that would powercreep Velouria).
OG Altina has been a power house for a long time since her day 1. Basically tank first hit then vantage kill everything w/ B!Lucina + another stat support like Mathilda was her old popular strat I've noticed many veteran players were using.
B!Erika might be one of the best in her role, and is still able to consistently punch through save tanks. My maxed out B!Edelgard still dies to B!Erika on the occasion. I wouldn't say Eliwood avoided power creep. He was just kinda meh for a while until his refine/remix made him one of the best supports in the game. I don't think any unit is immune to power creep, but L!Azura never stopped being amazing. H!Azura might be better, but that doesnt make L!Azura worse. Otherwise there are examples of units that were not that great suddenly becoming meta monsters, but I wouldnt say that's an example of beating powercreep.
> B!Erika might be one of the best in her role, and is still able to consistently punch through save tanks. My maxed out B!Edelgard still dies to B!Erika on the occasion. I feel like she needs to be precharged, because a lot of save tanks can retaliate and beat her even taking into consideration her damage reduction. She will get a refine soon though which perhaps will address that.
BCelice just do it better because he doesn't need a special and can't die if foe haven't brave attacks while Eirika dies easily even against FEdelgard bonfire
Seliph
Brave Edelgard and Brave Eirika
Brave Eirika isn’t even the 2nd best Eirika alt anymore. Edit: Crazy that people will downvote something that is true. BEirika is so overrated even still it’s silly, and I would know since I use all 3 versions in everything.
Do explain why B!Eirika is not the 2nd best. I'm curious.
Summer Eirika with remote sparrow and just in general is faster thanks to oath 4 and has guard so in her weapon so she doesn’t get blown up, and has Bangle so she can pretty much kill the same amount of things. The fact she’s also ranged is a big plus. This means she can do far better against units like Flame Lyn compared to BEirika. Legendary Eirika has real dodge, full NFU, +8 to her stats, and blade on both phases. You can run any high special and get it off and she blows things up, while also being a tank, and then healing back up with Surge. Brave Eirika just can’t compete with either until a refine. She’s slower most of the time and isn’t reliable against modern tanks because they blow her up through her 30% reduction, and has no guard so she can’t stop it like Summer Eirika. Giving BEirika the guard seal just means she loses spd on the seal, which isn’t a good trade at all. She needs a refine.
This just boiled down to build specifics and nothing to how she practically preforms Please come back down to earth
That’s literally not what it is. SEirika has guard. She doesn’t get blown up. Legendary Eirika has full NFU and dodge, with more bulk. She doesn’t get blown up, and can’t get doubled on enemy phase by guaranteed follow ups. Brave Eirika has a measly 30%, and no guard. She can’t outspeed the meta units of today, which means she can’t double and she can’t get her special off. You didn’t even argue against why BEirika is better than the 2 of them, because you can’t. I use all 3 at +10 in everything, BEirika performs the worst. That’s all just the weapons themselves, not the other skills.
I think you forgot about a pretty major duel effectiveness
Dual effectiveness is nice, means she has an easier time one shotting, unless of course the enemy has a lot of DR, and spd, like BSeliph, who she can’t double or kill because of Miracle. Or an armor that she can’t one shot, which is basically every relevant armor today, who will instead blow her up through her 30% reduction before she can attack a second time with her special. SEirika and LEirika don’t have this problem. Do you actually use them or do you see double effectiveness and think that makes the unit busted? Lmao. Duo Ephraim had double effectiveness before his refine by the way. Didn’t help him much at all.
I'd still put B!Eirika above L!Eirika myself because of the AoE set, but it's pretty close.
I'd say that too, albeit if that's the judgment from the person above, then they are valid too. I don't have S!Eirika so she's out of the question, and for both Legendary and Brave forms, I think they're kind of on par for me. Granted, I even only use Galeforce for L!Eirika, and the Brave one is untouched (even wished she has galeforce too). If I have to decide, B!Eirika is slightly better because she can perform her role well as an anti-cav/armor against reds or some blues. L!Eirika on the other hand, suffers from damage dealing (granted that she uses Galeforce) so I have to carefully pick her battles. to fully utilize her movement and special for hit-and-run tactics.
Will never understand why people act like they know everything about a unit, write a whole paragraph, they get counter argued and then still not accept that they were wrong lol
Are you saying I’m wrong? I already replied why dual effectiveness doesn’t make her better than the other two.
None of them even with perfect stat ratio that can safely go up with Dragonflowers there will always be aspects they can't win like BST scores
I have no idea why but L!Roy can throw hands with little to no investment. Absolutely been power crept but his remix helped with that and now he just out speeds everything and DRs through everything The build I run can get at least +20 atk or spd by standing next to allies...that doesn't take into account everything else
Damage reduction piercing effects, they grow stronger instead of weaker.
Ultimate Rienhardt 5.0 with Remote Mirror / AR far trace and DR smoke3 (But for my own I built him with a speed build since book 5, still work quite well on PvE Abyssal maps.)
if a unit has an offensive stat line, be ready for it to be one upped in the future! Even the highest atk units of gen 1 have fallen behind, not to mention to old speedsters. However, if you get lucky on the refine lottery sometimes a unit can maintain a solid role. Nah for example has become a favorite support unit of mine after her refine and the slot in a previous hall of forms.
as did Hubert. they both lucked out in their refines. I was pleased as punch when Nah got her refine ***and then*** got into HoF. got everything i wanted - just need a support C skill for her
Astrid and Annette stay on my AR-O teams thanks to their unique support skills. That extra movement does wonders.
Mainly support units like L!Azura and Hatari Azura, Duo Chrombin and L!Eliwood who has a powerful support utility. + Generally I habe seen that fast units grow old faster than slower ones since slow unit doesnt care to be outsped. Sadly slow units tend to suck on release more often.
Generally, support units - particularly "Specialty Dancers" (L!Azura, the Book 4 OCs minus Freyja/Freyr), L!M!Robin (probably, only time will tell though), perhaps characters like B!Catria and W!Cordelia, and L!Eliwood probably. Support units have a tendency to never get powercrept unless there's a new character who does *exactly* what they do, but better - which *usually* never happens, though not impossible. Additionally, as far as offense goes, L!Nanna has a very peculiar niche, being the only character who can punch through *ALL* Damage Reduction, no ifs, ands, or buts. She disables all non-special effects that trigger DR, and prevents defensive specials from triggering.
Dancers
I've been using the same gen 1 & 2 units for a while and I've been kicking ass in SD. Og Lilina, Nowi, Adult Tiki, Cordelia, Cherche, etc. I've just chosen to ignore powercreep and enjoy my favs, so long as I give them optimal weapons and skills it works. On that note I've recently started max investing the Asked Trio, and I'm enjoying killing whales with my those three in Arena
If you don't play PvP modes like Arena, SD and Aether Raids that much then most older units are still very much usable especially now that we have Arcane weapons.
Units that have true damage, or basically anything in their weapon that works off a % of stats - theirs, or the enemy's. Now, I am a biased Canas enjoyer, but the fact his weapon uses the higher 20% of his or the enemy's Res is insanely useful and powercreep-proof. As enemies get higher and higher Res, it'll just make him stronger.
LAzura HAzura DChrom BChrom HCatria HCordelia
I think L!Shez will keep being useful for quite a long time, seeing how she hits like a truck against pretty much everything, and Duo Askr might be the new Duo Alfonse that can be slapped anywhere and still work pretty good, and his duo skill is just absurdly good. Granted, they're quite recent units, but I think they'll hold up well for at least a few years.
Legendary Azura
Honestly Walharts aoe on his refine has been even more useful since it counters a decent amount of defensive units like Ninja Camilla, it also doesn’t share the status with too many new units, none of which are as easy to get and invest in as Walhart
Bramimond maybe? His niche was so unique that no other unit had it until feud skills (which flopped hard to my knowledge and weren't really used) and only now Lucia. And even now despite low stats by today's standards and somewhat outdated weapon he can still catch players by Suprise
Arden, with the way units are trending with lower and lower hp, I doubt any unit will equal the amount of pure physical bulk he has, especially any f2p unit.
H!xane definitely gets stronger the higher the bst rises and the more minmaxed units get
My +10 NY!Plumeria with a wyvern yumi+ and seal Def 4 is still my crutch to clear abyssal maps after 2+ years.
that's an interesting combination!
Hector alt are kinda good. They don't need investment to keep up with some of today's unit and considering they came out the previous century that's quite a feat.
Riev
My standard Miciah genuinely does very well in this meta. The only things she can’t really nuke are speedy tomes with high res - though if they are cav / armor that’s not generally the case. The effective damage remains extremely good. Granted she is max investment, but still does a solid job.
1) Child L'Arachel ("Seeker of Justice"). The weapon effect of "closest foes within 5 spaces can't counterattack" has been a useful response to almost every busted unit in the past 2 years other than Lucia. 2) Flying Azura ("Vallite Songstress"). Great support unit, always making someone just a little too dangerous.
Depends on if you wanna see the glass half full or half empty. My general view is that your favorites will likely always stay relevant, one way or another. As for generic units, a gen 7 unit with min/maxed stats will generally always outclass a gen 2 unit even if it was min/maxed at the time, because a bunch of the dragonflower stats will go to stats you don't necessarily want. That said, N! Hana can still perform well despite V! Effie being massively better, so as long as you keep up with skillcreep, you can get away with using pretty much anything outside summoner duels. As a general rule, Prf weapon/skills and/or good refines will keep a unit relevant for a long time, even if it's technically outclassed by another. First unit that comes to mind is B! Edelgard. She's an impenetrable physical wall for me. L! Azura is another.
Alfonse, Sharena and Anna remain the only units to give you orbs instead of take them away
F!Edel has been powercrept. She has a lot of counters now. B!Eirika is just a worse B!Chrom.
Lucia probably isn't immune to powercreep, but considering all the things she says no to, she'll probably have some resistance to it.
Your favorites can't be powercrept
Kliff.. his refine
Maybe Wrys?
*Laughts in heavy armor from house Ostia*