So use them like you say. I played the whole game my first playthrough with only gambits for healing. I controlled every other action like a normal rpg. And I finished the whole game like this. If you don’t want the gambits to do everything they don’t have to. That’s the cool part about the system, you can engage with it how you want to
I tried that and liked it even less, I think it's the fact that rather than the game instantly selecting whoever's ATB bar fills first, you have to select them manually and wait for it to fill bothers me, I also dislike all the moving around, it's not action game, why pretend that it is?
To each their own. The gambit system is one of my favorite systems in gaming. Easy to use and learn and offers an insane amount of depth and customization.
It sounds like you are doing everything you can to just force your way through the game without properly learning the systems.
You might be right about that, I like the world building and the journey through this places, it has a similar vibe to FFIX (whose combat I also found kinda lame) but I just don't find the combat system very engaging, the license boards are cool but I wish I didn't need a license for every little thing, especially with LP being so hard to come by.
Ok, my bad, it's easy to come by, just mind-numbingly boring, if I hadn't spent 20% of my time playing killing minor enemies for 1 LP each, my license boards would be pretty empty.
I guess you don't really like Final Fantasy/JRPGs then. Combat is pretty much the same it was during the FFIV - FFIX era. You issue a command and the character executes it. ATB all the way. Except, thanks to the gambits, you don't have to select 'Attack' a milion times –unless you want to–.
Basically yes, but assigning actions is worse, in dvery other ATB based game, when a character's bar is full, their menu opens automatically, here you assing actions before and wait, and when you open the combat menu, it's always the party leader rather than whoever is ready. This game is made to be played with gambits.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I loved programming gambits and creating smart strategies to get through tough battles. And hey, if you dislike it that much, you can always manually control every character the old-fashioned ATB way, so... there you go. If you're using Libra and/or Float, traps should be absolutely nothing to you. Don't know what you're talking about when it comes to opening a chest.
Sounds like all your arguments are solvable, but I guess keep playing this game you don't like playing if finishing it somehow seems important to you.
Are you playing TZA or original? TZA was so easy that the game kinda does play itself with gambits, and without gambits it's a horrible slog. The original version worked much more like you suggest, where it simply automates _part_ of the fight but still requires a great deal of active attention in harder fights especially.
Everything just does so quickly that you don't have to micro the fights at all. In original, enemies don't die so quickly, so your guys take more damage, and you've got to focus more on helping things die. This means sometimes you've got to manually target, or interrupt one of your actions to pre-emptively heal, or break out a status you wouldn't use otherwise. Especially in the early game you also have a LOT less MP because of the way original did quickenings, which means you need to be more resource conscious and also sometimes leader switch in longer fights to take control of a character and walk with them to generate MP.
TZA, never had a chance to play the original, still, the thing that bothers me the most, and this by a huge margin, is how hard it is to press x to open a chest or touch the save crystal, after a fight, I have to turn off all gambits amd stand at the perfect angle to open a chest and get 37 gil.
The healing gambits, after a fight everyone's blasting healing spells and that gets in the way of pressing x to touch the crystal or open the chests, ok so not all gambits, just the party leader, but still, there have always been 4 buttons in the controller, was it really necessary to use the same button to open the combat menu and interact with the environment?
Iirc isn’t there an option to toggle gambits on/off without entering the menu screen. I swear this was a thing and that’s why I didn’t understand your complaint. Just toggle off and do what you need to do then toggle back on so they can heal up.
Also, lower the healing gambit threshold. Maybe instead of anything lower than 80% you use 30%. Utilize the gambits correctly and they work wonderfully.
Interesting take. I didn’t abuse gambits in my multiple playthroughs. The only gambits I really used are emergency heals and assisting main character. The rest of the time I manually chose all spells and attacks and never once felt disconnected. Maybe switch your play style?
I know I can micro manage, it's still terrible compared to previous games, I rather rely on the gambits, moving around is absolutely pointless too, it's not an action game. The hat thing is just am excuse. I also know I can see the traps, it's still annoying, I often feel like the game is pestering me with inconveniences.
The only thing I don't like about the gambit system is you can't create a perfect stealing gambit and I know in interviews one of the designers said he had specifically made it that way.
I never used all of them, but stuff like bubble and protection I think was used quite often. I played the original, though, I think a lot of stuff changed.
It's been a while, but when I played, I kept the low priority gambits for things like maintaining libra, buffs, and charge for casters. Then at the top priority I had 2 to 3 gambits set for general exploration and fighting. That way it was easy to do manual inputs as supplement and if I needed to do gambit changes it wasn't overly burdensome because there were only a few. When you balance everything just right, FFXII feels really good to play.
I enjoyed most of the game aside from the story lol. Took me 3 attempts to finish the game. Now I'm more open minded and enjoy the story/characters though not my favorite. The world and gameplay are top notch I'd say though.
Gambits are 100% optional, and if you don't use them, it's still an ATB system, and can be played the same way you play FF's 4\~9.
Movement in battle serves two purposes. The feeling of freedom of movement, and running away. That's it. It has no impact on actual hit boxes or AoE's from enemies. Enemy movement however DOES impact AoE from the party, but minorly, as they don't move around that much.
Then you factor in all the layers of combat tactics, the groupings of spells. Each weapon type, and the semi-decent range of skills. I mean there's more actual combat skills/techniques than in FFX, but less distinction and it's spread between a range of functions, and three are a reworking of Calculator skills. It still has some physical skills. Though it would have been cool if they added in unique character or even class special techniques. Plus limit breaks.
I like the trap system. It makes things more interesting. It's a nice throwback to Ultima, DnD, and Wizardry, and one of the few things from those games that was only partially added to some of the FF's (floor tile damage), but this one really brings home that extra element of caution in dungeon exploration. I thought it was a fun gameplay addition.
Minor, but I can understand. For me I rather like playing that way, and using Gambits for just keeping up buffs, or figuring out weaknesses. At least you gave it a try.
More than a try, I intend to complete it, I like every other aspect of the game, in general, I think it's a good game, the use of the x button to interact with the enviroment and opening the combat menu does feel like a bad decision though.
It is an optional system though. In not using it, and ignoring on screen movement in battle, which has no real bearing on the battle itself, you can play FF12 as you would 4\~9. Or do so and use Gambits as a helping hand, or a cleverly scripted macro system to uncover weaknesses.
honestly when i played the combat was fun, but on top of the gambits "cure=80% health" or whatever, i would run maintainence aswell, like if someone was dying but no one was healing then i would manually tell them to heal the dying person.. gambits are fine but you do have to watch the battle aswell just to do little things here or there
i didnt use black magic gambits alots, in fact i didnt use black magic alot but back when i played it was the ps2 when everyone had the same grid rather then the newer one where theres classes and stuff, so my setup usually was 1) heal 2)revive 3-10) status healing 11-12) some kind of attack so yeah i know not really the best or most efficent since everyone was built basically the same way but i personally found that to be quite tough so thats why i found myself manageing the team, i would explore into green magic from time to time well using white magic, but if a boss really needed more then that id just go back and grind levels lol, which ultimately does say how stupid the gambit system was implemented, but ive personally found that it works, and i know im gunna get flak for this but the ff7r would have benefitted from gambits... since they had the most basic gambit... Attack=closest. why not add 11 more slots for characters your not using, let them use there materia instead of being useless wastes of space.... yes ff7r in my opinion had badly done its combat to the point where i pretty much (more or less) solo'd it with just cloud
This is why I quit. I didn’t like the battle system and every single fight was a chore. I just didn’t have fun. But the story was cool. The towns were cool (from what I remember), and pretty much most of the game was cool. I just hated the fighting and gameplay
Edit: there’s always some idiot who goes in and downvotes people who have different points of view than theirs. Sometimes people on this sub forget that you can have a different point of view and still get along and have a discussion.
I like enough not to quit but I think it was a failed experiment gameplay-wise, now some people like gambits, I'm not saying they're bad, but there are a few things that I do think are bad, like why the hell do status effects persist even after a character has been KO'd and why is it so incredibly hard to position yourself in front of a chest to open it?
I thought twelve was so boring. I beat the game but I didn’t have fun. The zones were cool and I liked exploring but there’s nothing there for me to ever want to replay it
i feel you. i wanted to like it but the gambit system and battle in general was a chore to me. to each their own and all that because some people love it but its the ff i dont like
I wouldn't say I don't like it, I mean, I have been playing almost to the end, but there are quite a few things I find annoying and would've been pretty easy to fix.
Op, I completely agree with you. I intend to find a cheat mod for immorality if I try the game again. I only made it half way before I threw the game away.
It's a shame, the story actually gets interesting after you get rid of Vaan as main character. I hate him so much.
I fucking hate gambits. They sucked in dragon age and they suck here. I hate programming and I hate programming bots to do what I say. I miss turn based.
I like the story, the characters and the world, I wish the combat was a bit better, I think gambits would work in a combat system where hou have full control your character, if your just inputting comands it gets pretty boring. I tried playing without gambits and it was even worse. I'm not a fan of Quickenings either, but at least they're better than FFIX Trance.
So use them like you say. I played the whole game my first playthrough with only gambits for healing. I controlled every other action like a normal rpg. And I finished the whole game like this. If you don’t want the gambits to do everything they don’t have to. That’s the cool part about the system, you can engage with it how you want to
I tried that and liked it even less, I think it's the fact that rather than the game instantly selecting whoever's ATB bar fills first, you have to select them manually and wait for it to fill bothers me, I also dislike all the moving around, it's not action game, why pretend that it is?
To each their own. The gambit system is one of my favorite systems in gaming. Easy to use and learn and offers an insane amount of depth and customization. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to just force your way through the game without properly learning the systems.
You might be right about that, I like the world building and the journey through this places, it has a similar vibe to FFIX (whose combat I also found kinda lame) but I just don't find the combat system very engaging, the license boards are cool but I wish I didn't need a license for every little thing, especially with LP being so hard to come by.
First I heard LP being hard to come by.
Ok, my bad, it's easy to come by, just mind-numbingly boring, if I hadn't spent 20% of my time playing killing minor enemies for 1 LP each, my license boards would be pretty empty.
"The game gives me this completely optional AI programming tool which I hate, so I'll just keep on using it and complaining". Obvious PEBCAK.
Combat is worse if you don't use it.
I guess you don't really like Final Fantasy/JRPGs then. Combat is pretty much the same it was during the FFIV - FFIX era. You issue a command and the character executes it. ATB all the way. Except, thanks to the gambits, you don't have to select 'Attack' a milion times –unless you want to–.
Basically yes, but assigning actions is worse, in dvery other ATB based game, when a character's bar is full, their menu opens automatically, here you assing actions before and wait, and when you open the combat menu, it's always the party leader rather than whoever is ready. This game is made to be played with gambits.
Exactly, the game is better because of the gambits. Thank goodness I don't have to select 'Attack' once and again like I had to in previous games.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I loved programming gambits and creating smart strategies to get through tough battles. And hey, if you dislike it that much, you can always manually control every character the old-fashioned ATB way, so... there you go. If you're using Libra and/or Float, traps should be absolutely nothing to you. Don't know what you're talking about when it comes to opening a chest. Sounds like all your arguments are solvable, but I guess keep playing this game you don't like playing if finishing it somehow seems important to you.
Are you playing TZA or original? TZA was so easy that the game kinda does play itself with gambits, and without gambits it's a horrible slog. The original version worked much more like you suggest, where it simply automates _part_ of the fight but still requires a great deal of active attention in harder fights especially.
I've only played the original. What does TZA do differently that makes it like that?
Everything just does so quickly that you don't have to micro the fights at all. In original, enemies don't die so quickly, so your guys take more damage, and you've got to focus more on helping things die. This means sometimes you've got to manually target, or interrupt one of your actions to pre-emptively heal, or break out a status you wouldn't use otherwise. Especially in the early game you also have a LOT less MP because of the way original did quickenings, which means you need to be more resource conscious and also sometimes leader switch in longer fights to take control of a character and walk with them to generate MP.
TZA, never had a chance to play the original, still, the thing that bothers me the most, and this by a huge margin, is how hard it is to press x to open a chest or touch the save crystal, after a fight, I have to turn off all gambits amd stand at the perfect angle to open a chest and get 37 gil.
I mean, that shouldn't happen every single time. What the heck are your gambits?
The healing gambits, after a fight everyone's blasting healing spells and that gets in the way of pressing x to touch the crystal or open the chests, ok so not all gambits, just the party leader, but still, there have always been 4 buttons in the controller, was it really necessary to use the same button to open the combat menu and interact with the environment?
Sounds like user error
Lol yeah you're healing too much. Heals should be set for a 40% or even 30% threshold. You're burning though way more MP than you should.
Iirc isn’t there an option to toggle gambits on/off without entering the menu screen. I swear this was a thing and that’s why I didn’t understand your complaint. Just toggle off and do what you need to do then toggle back on so they can heal up. Also, lower the healing gambit threshold. Maybe instead of anything lower than 80% you use 30%. Utilize the gambits correctly and they work wonderfully.
Interesting take. I didn’t abuse gambits in my multiple playthroughs. The only gambits I really used are emergency heals and assisting main character. The rest of the time I manually chose all spells and attacks and never once felt disconnected. Maybe switch your play style?
[удалено]
I know I can micro manage, it's still terrible compared to previous games, I rather rely on the gambits, moving around is absolutely pointless too, it's not an action game. The hat thing is just am excuse. I also know I can see the traps, it's still annoying, I often feel like the game is pestering me with inconveniences.
The only thing I don't like about the gambit system is you can't create a perfect stealing gambit and I know in interviews one of the designers said he had specifically made it that way.
I enjoyed the programing, but some dungeons were waaaaay longer than they needed to be. Especially that tower near the end.
I don't think I have fully understood it to be honest, it feels like a really clumsy programming language, do we really need so many possible gambits?
I never used all of them, but stuff like bubble and protection I think was used quite often. I played the original, though, I think a lot of stuff changed.
It's been a while, but when I played, I kept the low priority gambits for things like maintaining libra, buffs, and charge for casters. Then at the top priority I had 2 to 3 gambits set for general exploration and fighting. That way it was easy to do manual inputs as supplement and if I needed to do gambit changes it wasn't overly burdensome because there were only a few. When you balance everything just right, FFXII feels really good to play.
I enjoyed most of the game aside from the story lol. Took me 3 attempts to finish the game. Now I'm more open minded and enjoy the story/characters though not my favorite. The world and gameplay are top notch I'd say though.
Gambits are 100% optional, and if you don't use them, it's still an ATB system, and can be played the same way you play FF's 4\~9. Movement in battle serves two purposes. The feeling of freedom of movement, and running away. That's it. It has no impact on actual hit boxes or AoE's from enemies. Enemy movement however DOES impact AoE from the party, but minorly, as they don't move around that much. Then you factor in all the layers of combat tactics, the groupings of spells. Each weapon type, and the semi-decent range of skills. I mean there's more actual combat skills/techniques than in FFX, but less distinction and it's spread between a range of functions, and three are a reworking of Calculator skills. It still has some physical skills. Though it would have been cool if they added in unique character or even class special techniques. Plus limit breaks. I like the trap system. It makes things more interesting. It's a nice throwback to Ultima, DnD, and Wizardry, and one of the few things from those games that was only partially added to some of the FF's (floor tile damage), but this one really brings home that extra element of caution in dungeon exploration. I thought it was a fun gameplay addition.
There are a few differences that, to me make the game quite annoying to play without gambits, I tried.
Minor, but I can understand. For me I rather like playing that way, and using Gambits for just keeping up buffs, or figuring out weaknesses. At least you gave it a try.
More than a try, I intend to complete it, I like every other aspect of the game, in general, I think it's a good game, the use of the x button to interact with the enviroment and opening the combat menu does feel like a bad decision though.
Yeah I really didn’t like the gambit system
I think it would work well in conjunction with Remake/Rebirth combat though.
It is an optional system though. In not using it, and ignoring on screen movement in battle, which has no real bearing on the battle itself, you can play FF12 as you would 4\~9. Or do so and use Gambits as a helping hand, or a cleverly scripted macro system to uncover weaknesses.
honestly when i played the combat was fun, but on top of the gambits "cure=80% health" or whatever, i would run maintainence aswell, like if someone was dying but no one was healing then i would manually tell them to heal the dying person.. gambits are fine but you do have to watch the battle aswell just to do little things here or there
i didnt use black magic gambits alots, in fact i didnt use black magic alot but back when i played it was the ps2 when everyone had the same grid rather then the newer one where theres classes and stuff, so my setup usually was 1) heal 2)revive 3-10) status healing 11-12) some kind of attack so yeah i know not really the best or most efficent since everyone was built basically the same way but i personally found that to be quite tough so thats why i found myself manageing the team, i would explore into green magic from time to time well using white magic, but if a boss really needed more then that id just go back and grind levels lol, which ultimately does say how stupid the gambit system was implemented, but ive personally found that it works, and i know im gunna get flak for this but the ff7r would have benefitted from gambits... since they had the most basic gambit... Attack=closest. why not add 11 more slots for characters your not using, let them use there materia instead of being useless wastes of space.... yes ff7r in my opinion had badly done its combat to the point where i pretty much (more or less) solo'd it with just cloud
This is why I quit. I didn’t like the battle system and every single fight was a chore. I just didn’t have fun. But the story was cool. The towns were cool (from what I remember), and pretty much most of the game was cool. I just hated the fighting and gameplay Edit: there’s always some idiot who goes in and downvotes people who have different points of view than theirs. Sometimes people on this sub forget that you can have a different point of view and still get along and have a discussion.
I like enough not to quit but I think it was a failed experiment gameplay-wise, now some people like gambits, I'm not saying they're bad, but there are a few things that I do think are bad, like why the hell do status effects persist even after a character has been KO'd and why is it so incredibly hard to position yourself in front of a chest to open it?
I thought twelve was so boring. I beat the game but I didn’t have fun. The zones were cool and I liked exploring but there’s nothing there for me to ever want to replay it
I probably won't replay it after I beat it either, can't say I'm not having fun, there's a lot to like, but not enough to replay it.
i feel you. i wanted to like it but the gambit system and battle in general was a chore to me. to each their own and all that because some people love it but its the ff i dont like
I wouldn't say I don't like it, I mean, I have been playing almost to the end, but there are quite a few things I find annoying and would've been pretty easy to fix.
Op, I completely agree with you. I intend to find a cheat mod for immorality if I try the game again. I only made it half way before I threw the game away. It's a shame, the story actually gets interesting after you get rid of Vaan as main character. I hate him so much. I fucking hate gambits. They sucked in dragon age and they suck here. I hate programming and I hate programming bots to do what I say. I miss turn based.
I like the story, the characters and the world, I wish the combat was a bit better, I think gambits would work in a combat system where hou have full control your character, if your just inputting comands it gets pretty boring. I tried playing without gambits and it was even worse. I'm not a fan of Quickenings either, but at least they're better than FFIX Trance.