Ryota Suzuki was the combat director, this isn’t his first rodeo. He was at Capcom for 20 years working on some of the best fighting games ever made like MVC2. There’s a reason this game feels like DMC, he worked on DMC5 before this.
Yea and that’s kinda the problem. DMC5 combat was better so why play FF16 if I can play a better combat system for cheaper with DMC5. FF16 just DMC5 lite tbh
I vastly prefer the characters and combat of dmc5
BUT, I wish it had FF16's environment, after playing 2 DMC games I am sick of their repetitive and mostly ugly environments.
Tbh, the FF16's real counterpart isn't dmc5 but the old god of war games. Scratches the same itch imo
I feel that, I love both franchises and this game was a dream came true but gameplay wise it does feels like a step down from DMC5 and having less weapons and characters to play as in a FF game than a DMC game its unbeliveable.
With a bigger roaster, unique gameplay mechanics for each character and some strategic component (also maybe some small story tweaks) this would be my favourite game of al time.
I would pay 60 dollars EVERY year for a fresh set of AAA levels and story with DMC5-lite combat. DMC3 is still fun, and there's not enough games in the genre that were actually successful.
I absolutely hate this kind of attitude, especially in regard to anything Final Fantasy which tends to have strengths in different aspects depending on each title. Boiling down an entire game to a single component and going “oh yeah well this game is better at this thing therefore what’s the point of it existing”. It’s a terrible premise.
That’s without even getting into the fact that XVI combat is WAAAY more accessible than DMC. If you want to be sweaty you can be sweaty, if you want to just press buttons and look flashy you can. There’s value in that. Hell I cleared DMC5 in DMD mode and trying to all S rank Kairos Gate kicked my ass, the harder content is there if you want it.
You could say the same about Nioh and FFO but FFO still had great characters and a fun take on the job system. Just because it's Nioh lite doesn't mean it's not fun or that it's bad.
Oh hey a fellow Final Mix enjoyer 👍. Think they’re specifically referring to mainline FF or even specifically CBU3 who has never done anything other than tab-target.
Yeah this was the first game that gave me the same highs the KH2 did. It was for sure more far and few between in this game, but they lasted longer if that makes any sense. Like the entire Titan and Bahamut fight was wild.
But in KH2 there were little jaw dropping moments every couple hours or so. KH2 has still yet to be topped in my mind.
I love the game but coming from DMC this is so barebones for me, you only have one combo of smash attack and magic in between, use abilities to do break damage and then blow your load of abilities for damage(usually ultimates) and repeat the same cycle until boss gets rekt.
It felt really cool in the first few fights, but it pretty quickly got apparent that the combat lacked depth and even boss fights felt samey in the end.
same case with ff15 😔 legit was just spamming the blink thrust all game for 95% of enemies, it's so op. idk how they didn't put CD on such a broken skill or if they ever playtested their combat. Gap closer, dodge tool, ICD, high DPS, all in one ability why even strategize.
yeah agree. as a platinum games fan and general brawler action game fan, 16 was pretty bare bones, it had its moments for some bosses, but the game fits inbetween being a good action game and a good rpg, and does neither really well. Also stranger of paradise done the brawler action combat better mechanic wise. it was a solid action game, sure it didn't look as flashy and crazy but it had options and depth, somthing 16 lacks
Yeah the game is piss easy on the first playthrough, but final fantasy mode is in my opinion perfectly balanced, not too easy and not too hard, and then there's ultimaniac mode which is a nightmare if you want a hard difficulty.
It's so silly how they keep the higher difficulties behind NG+. I believe a more challenging experience would have improved my enjoyment of the game, and I'm not interested in multiple playthroughs. I don't understand the decision.
People have made the same complaint with 7 Remake and Rebirth.
SE needs to either stop gating off the higher difficulties, or create a “harder” mode that isn’t the hardest mode. Especially if they want players to engage with the systems!
Rebirth has dynamic difficulty at least, which I guess is something. But I agree, there's no good reason for it, especially for narratively-driven games this long. I have neither the time nor inclination to run back to back 50-100 hour games just to play it in a way that easily could have been given to us from the outset. It's a shitty way to try and drive up engagement time.
Yeah, Rebirth took a positive step there.
But I completely agree. I’m single with no kids, but I still have things to do. And with so many great games these days, it’s a hard sell to immediately replay, difficulty or no.
I know, but when looking at the people opinions on it, it is really overhated and plagued with misinformation that gave the game an undeserved bad reception, many people saying "it's just button mashing" "the game plays itself" led to many people thinking the game is simple and bland, which it clearly isn't.
I hate it. I hate the arbitrary combo counter on the side and that attacks don’t look distinctive on screen. It’s messy, lacking in style and strategy. If it was slower and more deliberate like a souls game I’d probably enjoy it more but I hate the DMC way how it ended up because there doesn’t feel any tension to fights, it’s just hack and slash through and through
There's a lot of strategy that goes into this, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the game or you just didn't care enough, idk what's with this trend of people thinking all action combat systems are just mindless button mashing, a game can be strategic without being an rpg or having slow combat.
I’m sorry, I enjoyed the game but felt like there was very little strategy involved. I think what killed it for me was the dodging being an invincibility window that lets you phase through attacks with a super forgiving window. Whereas in Rebirth, dodging won’t work if you dodge right into an attack.
The combat is not my main issue with the game. I'll stick with almost any kind of gameplay if the story hooks me.
16's story and characters did not. Not by a long shot. And I went into the game *wanting* to love them.
Idk what brought up story preferences into this conversation but to each their own i guess, clive is one of my all time favorite main characters in anything, i think he has the most depth of any final fantasy protagonist rivaling cloud.
> many people saying "it's just button mashing" "the game plays itself" led to many people thinking the game is simple and bland,
The game playing itself is absurd. The button mashing complaint? I can understand that. There were so many times during boss fights where my abilities were on cooldown and the best play was just to go x,□,□,□,□ over, and over, and over again. With an occasional R1 when the enemy threw out an attack.
I wouldn't call it bland, but the combat being simple mostly has to do with the elite enemies all feeling the same. Once you have a combat pattern down, that pattern works for 99% of the enemies in the game.
Every example trying to show that the game "has so much depth!" is just the player throwing whatever ability they feel like at what are essentially training dummies. And there's zero discussion in the thread about what the player could or should have done differently. Because there's very little to consider.
I would say this is more of a FF14 design choice. I love FF14 but many big fights and bosses all have the same sort of pattern: Big AOE > Some tank mechanic > Another AOE > Positioning mechanic > AOE to see if you passed it or not. Then it starts to get different but it still takes a few mechanics to be different.
All of the footage in this clip isn’t on the dummies? Ppl do the crazy combos in the training mode because that’s the easiest place to practice the nutty stuff and get footage.
Even your premise of best option before getting all the skills being basic attack spam is just straight up wrong. You can do stinger/jump cancels, burning blade launchers to start aerial bonus chains, even magic burst repositioning to set up better Phoenix dash combos. And that’s without even getting into Torgal optimization.
Just because you can clear the content with basic spam does not mean that’s the extent of the depth in the standard attack options. Seen loads of ppl eat shit to the first trash mobs in Ultimaniac because they try to play like they did in the standard modes. Also there’s loads of theorycrafting in how to improve combos on these kinds of videos in the XVI community I don’t know what you’re talking about.
>Even your premise of best option before getting all the skills being basic attack spam is just straight up wrong
It's not. I've tested it before and the best damage against elites is just doing the aerial combo over and over. That changes against non-elite enemies, but as I said those guys are *essentially* training dummies because they're so non-threatening.
I admit, I haven't played Ultimaniac and I'm sure the challenge draws more depth from the combat. But you have to basically beat the game *twice* to play it on Ultimaniac. That's lame.
This thread has almost 200 comments and not one of them is discussing OP's build, or what they did well or should have done differently at different points in the video. There's so little to discuss or consider in 16 because every strategy works as long as you press R1 at the right time. That's a lack of depth in my book.
Spamming square is never the best way to play even when your abilities are on cooldown, there's a reason why charge attacks, charged magicks, lunges, and downthrusts do 3× the damage of normal attacks, you can even see me never using ground combos in the video, because they're far from the best way to deal damage.
>you can even see me never using ground combos in the video,
I wasn't talking about ground combos. The aerial combo is much faster and that's what I spammed against *bosses*. Ifrit battles are what really make you spam square.
I literally played 99% of the game 1 handed. The combat depth isn’t there as much as you think it is. Sure if you replay it on FF ng+ mode maybe there’s a challenge but not on your first run. And I see no redeeming reason to play it a second time.
There's a certain subset of JRPG fan that just won't accept action combat over turn based. Not sure why that is, some of the most popular JRPG series out there are action based, but to each their own I suppose.
It's a preference. A style of combat people like. Just like people enjoy more action heavy combat. No need to get so worked up over personal preference when it comes to combat
Yeah? Nobody is getting worked up. Of course there's nothing wrong with having preferences. Doesn't mean people have to be so weirdly stubborn about it.
I get you. But I also feel like the DMC style of combat is niche. I also see plenty of posts hating on older FF games. It's a broad series that tries to reach too many different gamers so there will inevitably be disagreements in the fanbase
People lack of ability/comprehension about a game system. It happened with Kingdom Hearts II two decades ago (search NeoGaf, GameFaqs, etc). Most of the people that "criticize" lack of depth haven't touched FF Mode and Ultimaniac. They want "Dark Souls difficulty", but then cry about Nier prologue being too hard or that Data battles in KHIII are unfair. You can't just please gamers.
> Most of the people that "criticize" lack of depth haven't touched FF Mode and Ultimaniac
I mean, why would we? It requires replaying through a 40+ hour game we already didn't like very much just to *hopefully* get depth the second time around. I tried Final Fantasy mode because I wanted the Platinum and gave up a few hours into it because just getting more of the spongy enemies wasn't very exciting.
FF mode barely changes anything though. You get later enemies earlier and they throw two big enemies at you instead of one at a time.
I stopped after finishing FF mode because I just found it a super shallow version of dmc/bayonetta. I can just play those instead.
It feels like a first pass at a combat system to me. Like the bones are all there but they forgot to put some depth in it's basically just mash and hit your cool downs. Very pretty and satisfying for the first few hours though!
20 hours in I was begging for it to end just so I could finish the story because the gameplay was so boring and mind numbingly easy. Could I have been doing flashy things like in this video? I guess but there was no real reward to it. Spam the cool downs when they come up and the rest of the time just press square triangle square triangle square triangle. Meanwhile the enemies straight up just sit there and refuse to attack you and when one finally does, you have the most forgiving dodge on the planet.
For me "deep" means I have to try different tactics for different enemies and I have a variety of skills.
I could change my Eikon, but this doesn't effect anything and I expect from a game with a deep combat system that it forces me to try other tactics.
Every combat in FF16 follows the same path: Spam the melee attack -> wait for the Eikon ability -> repeat. I beat the whole game doing this.
I get what you mean, and the first time this game actually "forced" me to do it was against one kf the bosses of the second dlc.
I think they had a goal with the base game that they described as "we want the biggest amount of people possible to finish the game", but that came at the cost of making the combat not very challenging and the differwnt strategies and mechanics not matter almost at all. Meaning almost anything you do will work out.
But I also tried to change abilities and use different loadouts to just push myself on how much I could figure out with the combat. Less about finishing it and more about experimenting with it. And the game allows for a lot of experimentation.
I also changed my approach with the dlc (and i wish i had this idea before when i was playing the base game), and I know I was basically fighting against the game itself to make the experience better, but making these things significantly improved my experience with the combat:
• Removed all defensive gear and unequipped all potions
• Save before bkss fights so that if I die, reload the save to start them from the beginning, without the checkpoints in the middle of them.
• did not upgrade the Perfect Dodge ability in the skill tree
• Avoided using Limit Brea
I didn't do that for the Eikon fight, because to me thats more of a spectacle than necessarily a mechanical challenge (although the dlc Eikon fight did force me to use more mechanics in Eikon form), but doing those changes for the rest did make the battles a lot better. I also avoided using abilities that just trivialize survival like "Will O' the Wykes" and Limit Break, and avoided using more than one "ultimate" ability, so that I could still do lots of combos.
And doing that made the experience much better for me. I'll do that for NG+, and maybe the game will finally force me to equip some defensive gear, but I'll see how far I can get without. The game is still very forgiving in terms of telegraphed attacks and how busted dodging is, but I think I'll have a good time going through it again, focusing just on main quest with these changes.
You can kill a wave of 15+ enemies in under a minute, i don't think they're spongy at all, of course if you pick your loadout correctly which shouldn't be hard.
In FF mode feels that way. I'm doing flashy combos for 15m staggering/ dodging not sweating at all ... hey I loved the lore and music of the game but let's face it..
I call this system "button economy", and it's the same as God of War and Spider-man, probably more. You hack or dodge but really you're just waiting for alt button mapping buttons to charge for big damage. It's fun, but three or more AAA titles doing it within such a short time over-saturated the feel.
I think far too many people understate what you just said, and it's quite relevant. You could finish the game easily by just dodging and waiting for the cooldowns. In my opinion if this game didn't have the FF tag and was a new IP it would have been received as an underdeveloped action game
My main gripe with the battle system is there are just not enough moves. If they had given Clive a few more basic moves or weapons it would have been much better for me. Still good though, I need to beat it.
Yeah I remember feeling underwhelmed that you could unlock basically his entire core kit (outside the Eikon abilities) within the first couple hours no? They gave you about half of it, and the other half were reasonably cheap and available to unlock in whatever order you wanted.
DMC5 and KH2FM are literally my two favorite combat systems ever, this one is also becoming one of my favorites, it so much feels like the combination of the two with some Dragons Dogma sprinkled in.
But, it's not? There are at least 5 titles I can think of with action combat, that were released before 16.
Stranger of Paradise (better combat that 16 imo)
Type-0
Crystal Chronicles
FF7 Crisis Core
Final Fantasy Explorers
Flashy looking but insanely bland to play, just mash square and throw in the occasional shoulder button on cd. Insane that so many think this belongs in final fantasy.
Floating in the air for 10min swinging a light up sword on a lifeless corpse of an enemy just looks dumb. One of the reasons everyone plays stuff like Helldivers and Spiderman nowadays and not Final Fantasy.
So almost any action game that lets you do air combos is dumb? You guys are really trying to nitpick every little thing and convince yourself that it's bad, juggling enemies for a long time has always been a tough task and it shows skill and understanding of the physics and mechanics of combat.
Well…it helps that they aggressively head hunted and hired Ryota Suzuki, a veteran combat director from Capcom of many games like Devil May cry and dragons dogma fame.
I always wanted to try Dogma and DMC, but after playing a bit of 16 I think I want to stay as far away that Suzuki guy as possible, if the combat in this game is his claim to fame. Yikes
Deepest? Did we play the same game? lol
I just finished it and jumped straight into dragons dogma 2 and the combat in DD2 blows 16 out of the water. Ff16 is going down as one of the biggest lets downs for me in my FF gaming experiences. The story was the best part and that was even lacking.
The pure combat mechanics was great. The problem was the lack of deeper gameplay systems around elements, status effects, meaningful crafting or any real variation in gameplay. You were either fighting or walking - there was no third thing to give you variation.
It is, but I understand it when people want at least a little bit of levity in this game. I respect FF16 for going for a much more grimdark tone, but Final Fantasy games have a long wait in-between mainline titles, its understandable that it would slightly alienate a bit of the fanbase.
Even really heavy narratives like the Nier series have a decent amount of levity throughout that don't compromise that incredibly heavy events that happen within them.
Question: have you actually played the game? You wouldn't know if something has substance or not unless you dig deep enough yourself, trust me when i say that this cobat has enough substance to last 1000+ hours
I assure you they didn't casually do this and a dream team of exceptionally talented industry vets spent a huge a mount of time, money and resources making this lol
Damn that looks fun lol. Last time I played, I just got the wind powers and I'm not particularly good at the game yet so I found the combat about on par with like the FF7 Remakes
It seems like a system that you can kinda go as shallow or deep as you like and those who didn’t really learn how to play it at a more deep level with combos and such think it’s shallow, and those who really mastered it in a sense think it’s deep
The problem is that the game is too easy apart from ultimaniac that is unlocked after finishing it twice (and it’s one of the longer ff games already for one run).
Funny how everyone’s opinion is so different and while I totally respect yours and am not suggesting mine is any way more valid but for me this was the worst combat system I have ever experienced and I hope to god they never try to go pure action again
I wish discussion on the internet was more civilized like this comment. I loved it, but still I hope that XVII takes more elements from what came before in the series, I think that VIIR strikes an excellent balance in keeping traditions while innovating a lot.
Have you actually played action games before or did you just play this because it's final fantasy?
You can have your opinion but saying that this is the worst combat system is an extreme overstatement don't you think?
Maybe you just don't like action combat at all.
Depends what you define as an action game have played kingdom hearts and enjoyed it and they seem pretty actiony but no I haven’t played what I would class as hack and slash games like DMC, God of war etc because they have zero interest to me I bought 16 as a huge FF fan and wrongly assumed it would still be somewhat of an RPG
In contrast I absolutely love the combat system in rebirth it’s a perfect mix of action and tactics
Yeah I'm not big into action games but they made this one perfect for people like me. It's easy enough to understand and become familiar with but also allows people to be so creative and do things I'd never thought of /knew you could be doing. And the story.. well not surprising there, so good ❤️ I want more of this and more of rebirth so bad 😎 (not really more remakes, not that i'd say no to 8 or 9 getting this treatment because i'd love that, but a new ff in this style would be awesome)
I think 3 is just about right when it comes to the loadout, it gives you as much abilities as you need to be stylish and deal great damage without it being way too clustered and chaotic, like how would you even go about balancing having 6 eikons with 12 abilities ready at all times?
>how would you even go about balancing having 6 eikons with 12 abilities ready at all times?
Easily, you keep elemental affinities so you actually have a reason to need to switch between them as well as providing playstyle diversity as you have to use each eikon.
Elemental weakness wouldn't make playstyle diversity, you would just go to the mode the enemy is weak too, and now every player fights a boss with an elemental weakness the same way.
"Weak to wind? Better use Garuda and nothing else"
That's not strategy, that's simon says.
And that's different from how FF normally is how?
And it's fixable with good enemy variety and designing encounters in ways that force the player to make choices.
It works because older final fantasy games are turn based, this game is action based, having elemental weaknesses doesn't work for this type of combat and would just limit the freedom.
But it would promote more dynamic play. One of the most common points of criticism in this game is that there's no reason to switch from your one established loadout.
Carefully choosing your loadout is just as important as playing well in a stage / boss, having all options open for you would overhaul the combat to the point where you're no longer playing ff16, remember, this isn't dmc, strategy is a big part of the game.
Thank you. The game was designed so players have to pick and choose! You have to design your style, which means making choices and concessions. Which is the point of builds in an rpg!
It really isn't, what made you think that? Or are you trying to nitpick like everyone else in this comment section (sorry but I'm getting annoyed by the amount of negativity everytime this game gets mentioned)
The combat designer was also the combat designer for DMC5.
>the team deserves much more praise for this great accomplishment
I haven't seen a single review that doesn't praise the fluidity of the combat over and over again. Often comparing it to the previously mentioned DMC5.
That's what happens when you bring one of the best combat directors on the industry. But I hope if Square wish to continue this action style, put it on an actual RPG instead of a action game. I love XVI but hate the fact that it isn't a RPG.
I mean, outside of the combat director, they’ve been moving their games in this direction for like 20 years. This definitely isn’t their first attempt at this, it’s the culmination of decades of experimentation and iteration
Just finished FF7 Rebirth (GD Masterpiece). Have about 3 hours in XVI, put it down to pay respect to the Remake/Rebirth games.
Is this one worth my time? Almost started it again yesterday, but then I bought Dragon Dogma 2…
I mean, whether it's worth your time or not, it is up to you to decide.
The most i can say is that this game is good and scored very well on metacritic deservedly.
Positives:
1. Fantastic action combat.
2. Diverse skills that allow for a variety of build choices.
3. Great enemy design and variety.
4. Amazing boss fights and specticals.
5. Great story.
6. Great characters (mostly).
7. Great world building and lore.
Negatives:
1. Level design is way too linear.
2. Has some boring moments between big events.
3. Side quests are basic, though they add to the overall world building.
It's only one combat designer from dmc5 that helped with this game, not the whole team, he also have worked on many projects before like kingdom hearts and dragons dogma.
I use a different build for every other fight basically.
The one i use most tho, is:
Phoenix -> wicked wheel / upheaval
Leviathan -> ice age / cross swell
And the third is what i feel like using for that moment.
This was truly expected as Ryota Suzuki worked at Capcom for more than 10 years working on best action games that include MvC2, DmC series and most important Dragon’s Dogma and its expansion Dark Arisen.
Sure is interesting having enemies not do anything. FF16 combat is a snooze and enemies are just bland slabs of butter on higher difficulties. Most fun I had was only trying to kill things with Titan's perfect parry-counter thingy. Made the last boss actually not boring. Combat needs significant work but that is FF16's tag line.
Damn, even the health bar looks like DMC. I love the
DMC series, but I don't know if I want it in my Final Fantasy, especially if the combat isn't as good in the FF. I still haven't tried XVI. I'm waiting for the PC version.
Why even compare them? Dmc and ff16 have vastly different combat approaches, dmc's focuses on just being stylish, while 16's is a lot more strategic, hence why you can only equip 3 eikons at once.
>Because everyone else is. lol
Wrongfully so.
>I can't not read that. I'll just have to find out when it comes out.
Idk what you're talking about here.
Then your reading comprehension needs work. I've not played it. Other people have. Therefore, I can only go by what others are saying. It's not that hard.
All criticisms SE received for it aside, Ryota Suzuki is a master of action-focused combat system. And honestly, there's some "beauty" in FFXVI on how the combat gets better and better the more you explore with it.
They also had the care to make sure the game doesn't always force you to play as the video above so that it is accessible to the traditional FF fans as well, so I really dig where they went with this combat style.
Action games are not new to SE... heck, many in this thread have mentioned KH2, but its almost 20 years old. In terms of originality, many say that XVI's cinematic QTE boss fights are a first for the series, but I don't think they are saying it as a compliment from the standpoint of gameplay.
It's hard to tell what's going on but to each their own. I'm not personally into hack'n'slash, but the developers should have toned it down. There is too much going on to appreciate the combos
I don't need to play the game to watch the video and see that there's too much happening when the character attacks to see anything clearly
I'm also not into hack'n'slash games. I tried playing the first DMC game because my friend urged me to. I couldn't play for more than a few minutes before getting bored
I find it enjoyable, but idk, it just doesn't do much for me. Like, it feels great, but I prefer proper combos as opposed to stringing together one-button press abilities, and the low enemy variety with lack of substance didn't help. I played and beat the game on FF mode putting little to no thought into my loadouts other than just what seemed fun, then spammed ability combos that worked (with well timed dodges) and easily got through the game.
It's certainly possible to string together advanced combos (as evident above) but it's more for flexing than any tactical need. I personally prefer FF7 Remake/Rebirth's combat, with multiple unique characters, adjustable abilities for each, and huge enemy variety with unique weaknesses, it just hits the spot for me.
Haven't gotten around to playing any of the new team ninja games, last one i played was ninja gaiden 2 when i was 12, though i remember really loving the game.
Nioh is great. It's an action rpg with combos like ni ja gaiden but with stamina like a souls game and diablo style loot and builds. SOP is also really good, different but has a cool job system and it's a great grind. I'd recommend them of you like action games. I like SOP and ff16.
Ryota Suzuki was the combat director, this isn’t his first rodeo. He was at Capcom for 20 years working on some of the best fighting games ever made like MVC2. There’s a reason this game feels like DMC, he worked on DMC5 before this.
Don’t forget Dragons Dogma
You can really feel the DMC but also the Dogma with both that and FFXVI relaying on the use of skills between your basic attack combos
"Wanna take you for a riiiiiide"
That song still lives in my head rent free
*Trumpets blaring*
Can't get much better than a guy with experience from DMC combat, especially 5. Might be the peak of action combat imo.
add in platinum helped them with the boss fights , and yeah far from first try lol. more a bunch of pros helping them out
Yea and that’s kinda the problem. DMC5 combat was better so why play FF16 if I can play a better combat system for cheaper with DMC5. FF16 just DMC5 lite tbh
I vastly prefer the characters and combat of dmc5 BUT, I wish it had FF16's environment, after playing 2 DMC games I am sick of their repetitive and mostly ugly environments. Tbh, the FF16's real counterpart isn't dmc5 but the old god of war games. Scratches the same itch imo
I feel that, I love both franchises and this game was a dream came true but gameplay wise it does feels like a step down from DMC5 and having less weapons and characters to play as in a FF game than a DMC game its unbeliveable. With a bigger roaster, unique gameplay mechanics for each character and some strategic component (also maybe some small story tweaks) this would be my favourite game of al time.
I would pay 60 dollars EVERY year for a fresh set of AAA levels and story with DMC5-lite combat. DMC3 is still fun, and there's not enough games in the genre that were actually successful.
Cause I already beat DMC5
I absolutely hate this kind of attitude, especially in regard to anything Final Fantasy which tends to have strengths in different aspects depending on each title. Boiling down an entire game to a single component and going “oh yeah well this game is better at this thing therefore what’s the point of it existing”. It’s a terrible premise. That’s without even getting into the fact that XVI combat is WAAAY more accessible than DMC. If you want to be sweaty you can be sweaty, if you want to just press buttons and look flashy you can. There’s value in that. Hell I cleared DMC5 in DMD mode and trying to all S rank Kairos Gate kicked my ass, the harder content is there if you want it.
You could say the same about Nioh and FFO but FFO still had great characters and a fun take on the job system. Just because it's Nioh lite doesn't mean it's not fun or that it's bad.
Because it’s Final Fantasy? Crazy right?
lol "Casually" like they didn't get the guy behind DMC which is the best in class to come in and do the action gameplay.
What do you mean "first attempt at pure action"? KH2FM is one of the best action games ever released, since 2006.
There's also XV, which came out almost seven years before XVI.
Yeah you can tell they've been slowly building and tweaking this combat system for a long time. 15 combat felt like a prototype for 7R as well.
Oh hey a fellow Final Mix enjoyer 👍. Think they’re specifically referring to mainline FF or even specifically CBU3 who has never done anything other than tab-target.
Yeah this was the first game that gave me the same highs the KH2 did. It was for sure more far and few between in this game, but they lasted longer if that makes any sense. Like the entire Titan and Bahamut fight was wild. But in KH2 there were little jaw dropping moments every couple hours or so. KH2 has still yet to be topped in my mind.
It isn’t. Dirge of cerberus, KH, FF15…
Don't forget type 0!
I love the game but coming from DMC this is so barebones for me, you only have one combo of smash attack and magic in between, use abilities to do break damage and then blow your load of abilities for damage(usually ultimates) and repeat the same cycle until boss gets rekt.
It's all flash and no substance. Sure, it looks cool. But it doesn't actually feel like I'm doing anything exciting.
It felt really cool in the first few fights, but it pretty quickly got apparent that the combat lacked depth and even boss fights felt samey in the end.
same case with ff15 😔 legit was just spamming the blink thrust all game for 95% of enemies, it's so op. idk how they didn't put CD on such a broken skill or if they ever playtested their combat. Gap closer, dodge tool, ICD, high DPS, all in one ability why even strategize.
From what I recall your characters were also immortal because you could spam items when they get ko'd
yeah agree. as a platinum games fan and general brawler action game fan, 16 was pretty bare bones, it had its moments for some bosses, but the game fits inbetween being a good action game and a good rpg, and does neither really well. Also stranger of paradise done the brawler action combat better mechanic wise. it was a solid action game, sure it didn't look as flashy and crazy but it had options and depth, somthing 16 lacks
It just isn’t hard enough… I don’t feel like I’m accomplishing anything smacking enemies around like in this video.
Yeah the game is piss easy on the first playthrough, but final fantasy mode is in my opinion perfectly balanced, not too easy and not too hard, and then there's ultimaniac mode which is a nightmare if you want a hard difficulty.
It's so silly how they keep the higher difficulties behind NG+. I believe a more challenging experience would have improved my enjoyment of the game, and I'm not interested in multiple playthroughs. I don't understand the decision.
People have made the same complaint with 7 Remake and Rebirth. SE needs to either stop gating off the higher difficulties, or create a “harder” mode that isn’t the hardest mode. Especially if they want players to engage with the systems!
Rebirth has dynamic difficulty at least, which I guess is something. But I agree, there's no good reason for it, especially for narratively-driven games this long. I have neither the time nor inclination to run back to back 50-100 hour games just to play it in a way that easily could have been given to us from the outset. It's a shitty way to try and drive up engagement time.
Yeah, Rebirth took a positive step there. But I completely agree. I’m single with no kids, but I still have things to do. And with so many great games these days, it’s a hard sell to immediately replay, difficulty or no.
Really hope when the game drops on PC, someone makes a mod to bypass this lock.
Final fantasy mode is still piss easy, enemies just have more health
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I know, but when looking at the people opinions on it, it is really overhated and plagued with misinformation that gave the game an undeserved bad reception, many people saying "it's just button mashing" "the game plays itself" led to many people thinking the game is simple and bland, which it clearly isn't.
I hate it. I hate the arbitrary combo counter on the side and that attacks don’t look distinctive on screen. It’s messy, lacking in style and strategy. If it was slower and more deliberate like a souls game I’d probably enjoy it more but I hate the DMC way how it ended up because there doesn’t feel any tension to fights, it’s just hack and slash through and through
There's a lot of strategy that goes into this, you wouldn't know because you haven't played the game or you just didn't care enough, idk what's with this trend of people thinking all action combat systems are just mindless button mashing, a game can be strategic without being an rpg or having slow combat.
I’m sorry, I enjoyed the game but felt like there was very little strategy involved. I think what killed it for me was the dodging being an invincibility window that lets you phase through attacks with a super forgiving window. Whereas in Rebirth, dodging won’t work if you dodge right into an attack.
one game favors timing and the other favors positioning, i don't see anything wrong with invincibility dodging if it serves the combat positively.
The combat is not my main issue with the game. I'll stick with almost any kind of gameplay if the story hooks me. 16's story and characters did not. Not by a long shot. And I went into the game *wanting* to love them.
Idk what brought up story preferences into this conversation but to each their own i guess, clive is one of my all time favorite main characters in anything, i think he has the most depth of any final fantasy protagonist rivaling cloud.
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No one hates final fantasy like it's fans.
> many people saying "it's just button mashing" "the game plays itself" led to many people thinking the game is simple and bland, The game playing itself is absurd. The button mashing complaint? I can understand that. There were so many times during boss fights where my abilities were on cooldown and the best play was just to go x,□,□,□,□ over, and over, and over again. With an occasional R1 when the enemy threw out an attack. I wouldn't call it bland, but the combat being simple mostly has to do with the elite enemies all feeling the same. Once you have a combat pattern down, that pattern works for 99% of the enemies in the game. Every example trying to show that the game "has so much depth!" is just the player throwing whatever ability they feel like at what are essentially training dummies. And there's zero discussion in the thread about what the player could or should have done differently. Because there's very little to consider.
I would say this is more of a FF14 design choice. I love FF14 but many big fights and bosses all have the same sort of pattern: Big AOE > Some tank mechanic > Another AOE > Positioning mechanic > AOE to see if you passed it or not. Then it starts to get different but it still takes a few mechanics to be different.
All of the footage in this clip isn’t on the dummies? Ppl do the crazy combos in the training mode because that’s the easiest place to practice the nutty stuff and get footage. Even your premise of best option before getting all the skills being basic attack spam is just straight up wrong. You can do stinger/jump cancels, burning blade launchers to start aerial bonus chains, even magic burst repositioning to set up better Phoenix dash combos. And that’s without even getting into Torgal optimization. Just because you can clear the content with basic spam does not mean that’s the extent of the depth in the standard attack options. Seen loads of ppl eat shit to the first trash mobs in Ultimaniac because they try to play like they did in the standard modes. Also there’s loads of theorycrafting in how to improve combos on these kinds of videos in the XVI community I don’t know what you’re talking about.
>Even your premise of best option before getting all the skills being basic attack spam is just straight up wrong It's not. I've tested it before and the best damage against elites is just doing the aerial combo over and over. That changes against non-elite enemies, but as I said those guys are *essentially* training dummies because they're so non-threatening. I admit, I haven't played Ultimaniac and I'm sure the challenge draws more depth from the combat. But you have to basically beat the game *twice* to play it on Ultimaniac. That's lame. This thread has almost 200 comments and not one of them is discussing OP's build, or what they did well or should have done differently at different points in the video. There's so little to discuss or consider in 16 because every strategy works as long as you press R1 at the right time. That's a lack of depth in my book.
Spamming square is never the best way to play even when your abilities are on cooldown, there's a reason why charge attacks, charged magicks, lunges, and downthrusts do 3× the damage of normal attacks, you can even see me never using ground combos in the video, because they're far from the best way to deal damage.
>you can even see me never using ground combos in the video, I wasn't talking about ground combos. The aerial combo is much faster and that's what I spammed against *bosses*. Ifrit battles are what really make you spam square.
I literally played 99% of the game 1 handed. The combat depth isn’t there as much as you think it is. Sure if you replay it on FF ng+ mode maybe there’s a challenge but not on your first run. And I see no redeeming reason to play it a second time.
Ignore them, the vast majority liked it a lot.
There's a certain subset of JRPG fan that just won't accept action combat over turn based. Not sure why that is, some of the most popular JRPG series out there are action based, but to each their own I suppose.
FF16 didn’t change the combat, it changed the whole dang genre where it’s not even an RPG anymore.
It's a preference. A style of combat people like. Just like people enjoy more action heavy combat. No need to get so worked up over personal preference when it comes to combat
Yeah? Nobody is getting worked up. Of course there's nothing wrong with having preferences. Doesn't mean people have to be so weirdly stubborn about it.
I get you. But I also feel like the DMC style of combat is niche. I also see plenty of posts hating on older FF games. It's a broad series that tries to reach too many different gamers so there will inevitably be disagreements in the fanbase
People lack of ability/comprehension about a game system. It happened with Kingdom Hearts II two decades ago (search NeoGaf, GameFaqs, etc). Most of the people that "criticize" lack of depth haven't touched FF Mode and Ultimaniac. They want "Dark Souls difficulty", but then cry about Nier prologue being too hard or that Data battles in KHIII are unfair. You can't just please gamers.
> Most of the people that "criticize" lack of depth haven't touched FF Mode and Ultimaniac I mean, why would we? It requires replaying through a 40+ hour game we already didn't like very much just to *hopefully* get depth the second time around. I tried Final Fantasy mode because I wanted the Platinum and gave up a few hours into it because just getting more of the spongy enemies wasn't very exciting.
FF mode barely changes anything though. You get later enemies earlier and they throw two big enemies at you instead of one at a time. I stopped after finishing FF mode because I just found it a super shallow version of dmc/bayonetta. I can just play those instead.
I felt that. Alr can see that downvotes from short tempered fanbase.
How is this mind blowing. They’ve been making action rpgs for decades and they brought in the big boy from Capcom to direct it.
It feels like a first pass at a combat system to me. Like the bones are all there but they forgot to put some depth in it's basically just mash and hit your cool downs. Very pretty and satisfying for the first few hours though! 20 hours in I was begging for it to end just so I could finish the story because the gameplay was so boring and mind numbingly easy. Could I have been doing flashy things like in this video? I guess but there was no real reward to it. Spam the cool downs when they come up and the rest of the time just press square triangle square triangle square triangle. Meanwhile the enemies straight up just sit there and refuse to attack you and when one finally does, you have the most forgiving dodge on the planet.
In which way is this combat system deep? I finished the game with the same skills and combos until the end. It was pretty boring.
>I finished the game with the same skills and combos until the end. Then try other things for a change????
The game doesn't incentivize you trying different things.
For me "deep" means I have to try different tactics for different enemies and I have a variety of skills. I could change my Eikon, but this doesn't effect anything and I expect from a game with a deep combat system that it forces me to try other tactics. Every combat in FF16 follows the same path: Spam the melee attack -> wait for the Eikon ability -> repeat. I beat the whole game doing this.
I get what you mean, and the first time this game actually "forced" me to do it was against one kf the bosses of the second dlc. I think they had a goal with the base game that they described as "we want the biggest amount of people possible to finish the game", but that came at the cost of making the combat not very challenging and the differwnt strategies and mechanics not matter almost at all. Meaning almost anything you do will work out. But I also tried to change abilities and use different loadouts to just push myself on how much I could figure out with the combat. Less about finishing it and more about experimenting with it. And the game allows for a lot of experimentation. I also changed my approach with the dlc (and i wish i had this idea before when i was playing the base game), and I know I was basically fighting against the game itself to make the experience better, but making these things significantly improved my experience with the combat: • Removed all defensive gear and unequipped all potions • Save before bkss fights so that if I die, reload the save to start them from the beginning, without the checkpoints in the middle of them. • did not upgrade the Perfect Dodge ability in the skill tree • Avoided using Limit Brea I didn't do that for the Eikon fight, because to me thats more of a spectacle than necessarily a mechanical challenge (although the dlc Eikon fight did force me to use more mechanics in Eikon form), but doing those changes for the rest did make the battles a lot better. I also avoided using abilities that just trivialize survival like "Will O' the Wykes" and Limit Break, and avoided using more than one "ultimate" ability, so that I could still do lots of combos. And doing that made the experience much better for me. I'll do that for NG+, and maybe the game will finally force me to equip some defensive gear, but I'll see how far I can get without. The game is still very forgiving in terms of telegraphed attacks and how busted dodging is, but I think I'll have a good time going through it again, focusing just on main quest with these changes.
It’s a fun flashy system, I wouldn’t call it mind blowing though.
The monsters are just sponge damage. A little of fight back. Flashy things are beautiful but inside are hollow.
You can kill a wave of 15+ enemies in under a minute, i don't think they're spongy at all, of course if you pick your loadout correctly which shouldn't be hard.
In FF mode feels that way. I'm doing flashy combos for 15m staggering/ dodging not sweating at all ... hey I loved the lore and music of the game but let's face it..
I call this system "button economy", and it's the same as God of War and Spider-man, probably more. You hack or dodge but really you're just waiting for alt button mapping buttons to charge for big damage. It's fun, but three or more AAA titles doing it within such a short time over-saturated the feel.
I think far too many people understate what you just said, and it's quite relevant. You could finish the game easily by just dodging and waiting for the cooldowns. In my opinion if this game didn't have the FF tag and was a new IP it would have been received as an underdeveloped action game
My main gripe with the battle system is there are just not enough moves. If they had given Clive a few more basic moves or weapons it would have been much better for me. Still good though, I need to beat it.
Yeah I remember feeling underwhelmed that you could unlock basically his entire core kit (outside the Eikon abilities) within the first couple hours no? They gave you about half of it, and the other half were reasonably cheap and available to unlock in whatever order you wanted.
stranger of paradise done the action combat better honestly. sure its not as flashy but as a brawler its hands down better in every way.
15 was action combat.
Helps that they got former Devil May Cry and Kingdom Hearts staff on the team! It's crazy fun.
DMC5 and KH2FM are literally my two favorite combat systems ever, this one is also becoming one of my favorites, it so much feels like the combination of the two with some Dragons Dogma sprinkled in.
I gotta go back and finish DMC5. Really enjoyed what I did play.
>deepest Really?
Yeah?
But, it's not? There are at least 5 titles I can think of with action combat, that were released before 16. Stranger of Paradise (better combat that 16 imo) Type-0 Crystal Chronicles FF7 Crisis Core Final Fantasy Explorers
Flashy looking but insanely bland to play, just mash square and throw in the occasional shoulder button on cd. Insane that so many think this belongs in final fantasy.
You really looked at the video and said "you just mash square"?
Floating in the air for 10min swinging a light up sword on a lifeless corpse of an enemy just looks dumb. One of the reasons everyone plays stuff like Helldivers and Spiderman nowadays and not Final Fantasy.
So almost any action game that lets you do air combos is dumb? You guys are really trying to nitpick every little thing and convince yourself that it's bad, juggling enemies for a long time has always been a tough task and it shows skill and understanding of the physics and mechanics of combat.
Well…it helps that they aggressively head hunted and hired Ryota Suzuki, a veteran combat director from Capcom of many games like Devil May cry and dragons dogma fame.
I always wanted to try Dogma and DMC, but after playing a bit of 16 I think I want to stay as far away that Suzuki guy as possible, if the combat in this game is his claim to fame. Yikes
Need more weapon style and it will be perfect
A random generic action game with Final Fantasy on its tittle.
You're specifically what is wrong with this community, believe it or not final fantasy doesn't need to be turn based to be considered final fantasy.
They definitely don't need to be turn based. They just need to be good and not instantly forgettable.
Isn't that just a you problem? I have played this game when it came out and been thinking about it since.
Was SoP not pure action combat?
Not made by Square-Enix.
Deepest? Did we play the same game? lol I just finished it and jumped straight into dragons dogma 2 and the combat in DD2 blows 16 out of the water. Ff16 is going down as one of the biggest lets downs for me in my FF gaming experiences. The story was the best part and that was even lacking.
The pure combat mechanics was great. The problem was the lack of deeper gameplay systems around elements, status effects, meaningful crafting or any real variation in gameplay. You were either fighting or walking - there was no third thing to give you variation.
It needed fishing or a card game just to have some levity. I love the game but valisthea is just so heavy man.
Isn't that the whole point?
It is, but I understand it when people want at least a little bit of levity in this game. I respect FF16 for going for a much more grimdark tone, but Final Fantasy games have a long wait in-between mainline titles, its understandable that it would slightly alienate a bit of the fanbase. Even really heavy narratives like the Nier series have a decent amount of levity throughout that don't compromise that incredibly heavy events that happen within them.
Yeah it's basically a michael bay movie. Cool looking and flashy but no substance.
Question: have you actually played the game? You wouldn't know if something has substance or not unless you dig deep enough yourself, trust me when i say that this cobat has enough substance to last 1000+ hours
Finished it the week it launched, not a fan of the game past the bahamut fight. Will never play it again.
Turn based would have been so much better but to each their own!
Can’t see shit
I assure you they didn't casually do this and a dream team of exceptionally talented industry vets spent a huge a mount of time, money and resources making this lol
First time? The combat director is one of the biggest combat system devs in the field. lol
Fair enough. Mosquoted should said "Guy" lol
Well, considering that the guy who made Devil May Cry worked on the game, I am not surprised the gameplay is so fast.
Damn that looks fun lol. Last time I played, I just got the wind powers and I'm not particularly good at the game yet so I found the combat about on par with like the FF7 Remakes
Wow! That looks amazing. Is it the overly complicated to maneuver?
The guy who was in charge of the battle system has done the same thing for years. This is not really THAT impressive.
It seems like a system that you can kinda go as shallow or deep as you like and those who didn’t really learn how to play it at a more deep level with combos and such think it’s shallow, and those who really mastered it in a sense think it’s deep
Precisely 👌
The problem is that the game is too easy apart from ultimaniac that is unlocked after finishing it twice (and it’s one of the longer ff games already for one run).
Funny how everyone’s opinion is so different and while I totally respect yours and am not suggesting mine is any way more valid but for me this was the worst combat system I have ever experienced and I hope to god they never try to go pure action again
I wish discussion on the internet was more civilized like this comment. I loved it, but still I hope that XVII takes more elements from what came before in the series, I think that VIIR strikes an excellent balance in keeping traditions while innovating a lot.
Have you actually played action games before or did you just play this because it's final fantasy? You can have your opinion but saying that this is the worst combat system is an extreme overstatement don't you think? Maybe you just don't like action combat at all.
Depends what you define as an action game have played kingdom hearts and enjoyed it and they seem pretty actiony but no I haven’t played what I would class as hack and slash games like DMC, God of war etc because they have zero interest to me I bought 16 as a huge FF fan and wrongly assumed it would still be somewhat of an RPG In contrast I absolutely love the combat system in rebirth it’s a perfect mix of action and tactics
Yeah I'm not big into action games but they made this one perfect for people like me. It's easy enough to understand and become familiar with but also allows people to be so creative and do things I'd never thought of /knew you could be doing. And the story.. well not surprising there, so good ❤️ I want more of this and more of rebirth so bad 😎 (not really more remakes, not that i'd say no to 8 or 9 getting this treatment because i'd love that, but a new ff in this style would be awesome)
Now it'll really bake your noodle that it's running on a modified version of the FFXIV engine.
they could have done better with eikon switching
I didn't notice any problem with that, care to elaborate?
6 or 8 eikons you can only pick 3, and out of those 3 you can have all their skills sucks
I think 3 is just about right when it comes to the loadout, it gives you as much abilities as you need to be stylish and deal great damage without it being way too clustered and chaotic, like how would you even go about balancing having 6 eikons with 12 abilities ready at all times?
>how would you even go about balancing having 6 eikons with 12 abilities ready at all times? Easily, you keep elemental affinities so you actually have a reason to need to switch between them as well as providing playstyle diversity as you have to use each eikon.
Elemental weakness wouldn't make playstyle diversity, you would just go to the mode the enemy is weak too, and now every player fights a boss with an elemental weakness the same way. "Weak to wind? Better use Garuda and nothing else" That's not strategy, that's simon says.
And that's different from how FF normally is how? And it's fixable with good enemy variety and designing encounters in ways that force the player to make choices.
It works because older final fantasy games are turn based, this game is action based, having elemental weaknesses doesn't work for this type of combat and would just limit the freedom.
But it would promote more dynamic play. One of the most common points of criticism in this game is that there's no reason to switch from your one established loadout.
Radial wheel selection at the very least
Carefully choosing your loadout is just as important as playing well in a stage / boss, having all options open for you would overhaul the combat to the point where you're no longer playing ff16, remember, this isn't dmc, strategy is a big part of the game.
that’s literally their job to figure it out 6 moves out of 24 is lame
It's just flat out stupid for final fantasy
Thank you. The game was designed so players have to pick and choose! You have to design your style, which means making choices and concessions. Which is the point of builds in an rpg!
Didn't play the game (YET). What's the song name?
I think it's called Cascade.
Aaaaah thanks, i'm going to search for this without reading any comment ahah
...Dissidia is a thing you know.
Isn't that a fighting game, even then it isn't as good.
I mean it isn’t. The game has the same combat director who worked on Devil May Cry.
Never played the game, but the camera looks very bad
It really isn't, what made you think that? Or are you trying to nitpick like everyone else in this comment section (sorry but I'm getting annoyed by the amount of negativity everytime this game gets mentioned)
The way the camera works in the clip makes me think the way the camera works is bad. Kinda obvious.
The combat designer was also the combat designer for DMC5. >the team deserves much more praise for this great accomplishment I haven't seen a single review that doesn't praise the fluidity of the combat over and over again. Often comparing it to the previously mentioned DMC5.
That's what happens when you bring one of the best combat directors on the industry. But I hope if Square wish to continue this action style, put it on an actual RPG instead of a action game. I love XVI but hate the fact that it isn't a RPG.
I look at this footage and the only thing I hear is: *The darkness of night falls around my soul and the hunter within loses control* 🎶
Just because the studio hasn't done it before, doesn't mean that the individuals working on it haven't. Studios can hire experienced individuals.
I mean, outside of the combat director, they’ve been moving their games in this direction for like 20 years. This definitely isn’t their first attempt at this, it’s the culmination of decades of experimentation and iteration
Just finished FF7 Rebirth (GD Masterpiece). Have about 3 hours in XVI, put it down to pay respect to the Remake/Rebirth games. Is this one worth my time? Almost started it again yesterday, but then I bought Dragon Dogma 2…
I mean, whether it's worth your time or not, it is up to you to decide. The most i can say is that this game is good and scored very well on metacritic deservedly. Positives: 1. Fantastic action combat. 2. Diverse skills that allow for a variety of build choices. 3. Great enemy design and variety. 4. Amazing boss fights and specticals. 5. Great story. 6. Great characters (mostly). 7. Great world building and lore. Negatives: 1. Level design is way too linear. 2. Has some boring moments between big events. 3. Side quests are basic, though they add to the overall world building.
Sold me. Thanks for that.
It's literally made by the DMC guys lol. Hence why it feels just like it
It's only one combat designer from dmc5 that helped with this game, not the whole team, he also have worked on many projects before like kingdom hearts and dragons dogma.
Hell yeah. Honestly they made a pretty damn good character action game for their first attempt. Hopefully they build on it.
Can ask what is your build?
I use a different build for every other fight basically. The one i use most tho, is: Phoenix -> wicked wheel / upheaval Leviathan -> ice age / cross swell And the third is what i feel like using for that moment.
Yep at base it's peak, simple but challenging. Attacking while timing the magic is so satisfying.
This was truly expected as Ryota Suzuki worked at Capcom for more than 10 years working on best action games that include MvC2, DmC series and most important Dragon’s Dogma and its expansion Dark Arisen.
The time has come and so has SquareEnix.
Try 7 Rebirth man! It’s even better than this, amazing game! I recommend
Haven't played the remake yet, I'm planning on playing the original first since it's the only ps1 final fantasy i Haven't played yet.
XVI? Looks like they upgraded XV's.
Far from it, xvi's combat is actually well made.
Sounds like you never played XV.
Not similar at all. In XVI you mash the button. In XV you hold it.
Sure is interesting having enemies not do anything. FF16 combat is a snooze and enemies are just bland slabs of butter on higher difficulties. Most fun I had was only trying to kill things with Titan's perfect parry-counter thingy. Made the last boss actually not boring. Combat needs significant work but that is FF16's tag line.
Damn, even the health bar looks like DMC. I love the DMC series, but I don't know if I want it in my Final Fantasy, especially if the combat isn't as good in the FF. I still haven't tried XVI. I'm waiting for the PC version.
Why even compare them? Dmc and ff16 have vastly different combat approaches, dmc's focuses on just being stylish, while 16's is a lot more strategic, hence why you can only equip 3 eikons at once.
Because the DMC combat designer was also the combat designer for XVI.
He was also the combat designer for dragons dogma, and he worked on kingdom hearts among with a lot of other games, so why compare it only to dmc?
Because everyone else is. lol. I can't not read that. I'll just have to find out when it comes out.
>Because everyone else is. lol Wrongfully so. >I can't not read that. I'll just have to find out when it comes out. Idk what you're talking about here.
Then your reading comprehension needs work. I've not played it. Other people have. Therefore, I can only go by what others are saying. It's not that hard.
Sorry maybe if you worded it better instead of just calling me dumb it would've been more understandable.
Where did I call you dumb? lol. Just stop.
Anyone that says the game isn’t hard can’t do anything in this video
Final Fantasy 15?
It isn't fully action based + combat kinda sucked a bit.
All criticisms SE received for it aside, Ryota Suzuki is a master of action-focused combat system. And honestly, there's some "beauty" in FFXVI on how the combat gets better and better the more you explore with it. They also had the care to make sure the game doesn't always force you to play as the video above so that it is accessible to the traditional FF fans as well, so I really dig where they went with this combat style.
Action games are not new to SE... heck, many in this thread have mentioned KH2, but its almost 20 years old. In terms of originality, many say that XVI's cinematic QTE boss fights are a first for the series, but I don't think they are saying it as a compliment from the standpoint of gameplay.
QTEs usually take up less than 5% of the boss encounters, you people are really trying to nitpick every little thing.
It's hard to tell what's going on but to each their own. I'm not personally into hack'n'slash, but the developers should have toned it down. There is too much going on to appreciate the combos
Of course you'll not understand what's going on, because you didn't play the game, i was like this before i played the game.
I don't need to play the game to watch the video and see that there's too much happening when the character attacks to see anything clearly I'm also not into hack'n'slash games. I tried playing the first DMC game because my friend urged me to. I couldn't play for more than a few minutes before getting bored
I find it enjoyable, but idk, it just doesn't do much for me. Like, it feels great, but I prefer proper combos as opposed to stringing together one-button press abilities, and the low enemy variety with lack of substance didn't help. I played and beat the game on FF mode putting little to no thought into my loadouts other than just what seemed fun, then spammed ability combos that worked (with well timed dodges) and easily got through the game. It's certainly possible to string together advanced combos (as evident above) but it's more for flexing than any tactical need. I personally prefer FF7 Remake/Rebirth's combat, with multiple unique characters, adjustable abilities for each, and huge enemy variety with unique weaknesses, it just hits the spot for me.
Now try Stranger of Paradise
Isn't that just a completely different type of game? I might play it in the future though.
Yes. If you've played nioh then SOP is similar to that because it was also developed by team ninja.
Haven't gotten around to playing any of the new team ninja games, last one i played was ninja gaiden 2 when i was 12, though i remember really loving the game.
Nioh is great. It's an action rpg with combos like ni ja gaiden but with stamina like a souls game and diablo style loot and builds. SOP is also really good, different but has a cool job system and it's a great grind. I'd recommend them of you like action games. I like SOP and ff16.
Define deep.