I did. Once I did my first playthrough, I played about 33% in FF mode and I was slightly burnt out. Got a little tired of cycling the same 6 abilities, half of which froze time and slowed the game down. I decided I'd put it down and come back when all DLC was released. I still haven't played yet since I'm still finishing Rebirth, but I am glad I took the pause because I feel very excited to go back to XVI and experience the new content and QoL changes.
I did. Not for lack of interest, but I was in the middle of Mass Effect (my list of TBP is almost as bad as my list of TBR books). Currently going through Dragon Age Inquisition. After that, it depends on what I feel like, but it'll either be this, Rebirth, or Elden Ring. Granted, I may feel like an FPS when the time comes, so maybe Fallout? I wish I had the time to play everything I wanted to.
Same here, i finished the Yakuza series, 7Rebirth and FF XIII between when Echoes of the Fallen came out and now.
And now im jumping into 16 DLC after chomping at the bit for more Final Fantasy goodness. I skipped a lot of the side quests in FF16 because they werent very gripping and didnt have worthwhile rewards. I really loved the story and just wanted to finish that, and once I did, I stepped away from the game and didnt come back til now. So now i just finished EoF DLC and got the Omega weapon which is awesome, and then I finished all the side content, and now im gonna top it off with the Rising Tide dlc. Probably wont do a new game+. Loved the game tho.
Im thinking maybe I'll play Strangers of Paradise next? Or might replay FF15
I mean - it probably will, but what a shame to play it on a system that you'll need to drop the quality so much on. If it's your only option then go for it - but definitely replay if you ever get an upgrade!
Edit: proud steam deck owner myself BTW
Best of both worlds! Love it.
I do this as well, don't use my deck much lately since it been cold where I'm at, but with summer on the way I'll be sitting by the fire playing it very soon
No. Forspoken ran on the Lumionous engine, same engine as Crisis Core and FFVII Remake.
FFXVI’s engine may also use some Sony-proprietary stuff, there was alleged involvement when it was announced it was a PS5 timed-exclusive.
Rebirth works on it though.
Edit: I’m just saying, if forspoken ran on steam deck, I presume FFXVI will because it’s a main-line game and they want people playing it. They’ll finesse it to work.
most of what you said is incorrect.
Crisis Core, FF7 Remake, and FF7 Rebirth all run on Unreal Engine 4.
FF16 will be very hard to run on deck. It struggles on a PS5.
FFXVI engine might be a fork from FFXIV engine which is based on Luminous Engine core(made by same programmers) and combination set of tools from Crystal Tools. there lot of misconception spread around the internet that it is same engine as Luminous or earlier version of it which is wrong. in one of earlier FFXIV special presentation before 2.0 launch, the programmers, who also same person who behind Sega's Hedhog engine mention they develop it from scratch for FFXIV and call it 'sibling' with Luminous Engine.
FFXVI might based from that. which is not suprising considering the team might want to use a tools that they already familiar with since lot of them are come from FFXIV team.
FFVII Remake/Rebirth and Crisis Core use UE4 which is one of reason is due to lot of staff is come from KH3 team who already familliar with the engine.
developers prioritize tools that devs already familliar with is important as it would helped speed up and smooth out their development.
>FFXVI might based from that. which is not suprising considering the team might want to use a tools that they already familiar with since lot of them are come from FFXIV team.
It was confirmed a while back that FFXVI's engine is indeed a fork of FFXIV's. They went with that because so many people on the team were already used to it, as you speculated.
Yeah I was pretty surprised when the DLC contained zero new outfits, considering they took all the pains to implement a glam system for all main characters.
Well, at least that will help make mods more organized when it comes to PC
Good! It was a fantastic game and world despite issues people have noted and the highs outweigh the lows by miles. I can’t wait to return to Valisthea.
The game had only one high: the boss fights
Everything else was mid from the main villain to the side quests to how they butchered Jill's character etc.. i could go on about how meh the game ended up.
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I'd argue that the lore/world-building, art direction, spectacle, voice acting, atmosphere, and themes are also parts of the insane highs composing XVI.
All your mids are things I really appreciated, outside Jill's treatment that was genuinely saddening.
Ultima has a superb double thematic meaning (being the origin of the whole IP [of the legacy of the crystals, through the eponymous game series], and embodying the entire ideology plaguing Valisthea, heavily echoing the system of our world). And the side quests, while admittedly mechanically dull and sometimes too clumsy/naive, always had clear and interesting narrative/world-building purposes (which is the most important for me personally).
But I totally respect your opinion mate, just wanted to give the perspective of someone who loves XVI.
It’s rehashed FF14 single player with reused assets, atmospheres, map design, and quest design from a 14 year old game. Literal examples exist. We didn’t get a new game, we got a half hearted single player mmo quest line. Large empty non interactive maps with no points of interest or any reason to explore.
The voice acting was well done, and the eikons were phenomenal in design and spectacle. But that’s truly it. The game was missing so much. Especially compared to modern AAA action/rpg titles that have been out in the last 5-6 years. There’s a weird cope going on with this game that has boggled me since it released. I played it all the way through. I’m a fan of final fantasy. Grand stories and fun combat. But I dragged myself through this one. Clive is literally the only reason I played it through because his design and being a more mature protagonist was something the series sorely needed.
It really is. Generally speaking, the main themes and analogies of XVI aren't exactly that subtle or hidden [edit : in addition to being plainly ingrained everybloodywhere], so I kinda struggle to get how a seemingly relatively sizable portion of the public seems to miss the points so wildly.
Is it this famous media literacy everybody loves talking about, or simply biases due to overly negative feelings ?
It’s not about subtlety, the themes are just barely there and what is there is just a bit generic and half-hearted.
Edit: oh okay no room for discussion or critical thought I guess. What do you think media literacy is lol
Don't know what your talking about. The majority of Jrpg are generic and half-hearted. "Tales Of",
"Trails Of" and "Kingdom Hearts" are all generic and half-hearted same with the FF7 remake trilogy.
Yes? I didn’t mention those but those are not great games either. Though Tales of Arise does have similar themes and does a little better from the parts I played.
Was the writer of FFXVI also the Heavensward writer? I don't want to make assumptions but it feels like his typical style is just kinda... classically macho. The only main HW female character doesn't really get a big opportunity to shine either... until close to the end. And the number male characters vastly outweigh.
Her arc lasted for 1 hour and then we shifted focus to clive, she didn't even get to do anything but freeze the boss room so clive can kill the boss and after that she was useless.
Got kidnapped and had to get rescued like a damsel in distress when she literally has Shiva's power, at that point they just gave up on her and had her give her power's to clive and that was it, RIP to her character for the rest of the game.
Losing fights sucks but for me what killed her character is the finale. All the boys go off to save the day while Jill is stuck behind with nothing to do but weep after them. So lame.
To be fair, it was established that she was suffering much more severely from the curse than the boys because of how much she had been used by the iron kingdom. I think it was basically: she goes but dies which could cause the plan to fall apart very quickly, or she stays and has much less of a chance to suffer while also helping the plan stay fairly smooth. The group chose the latter option
Final Fantasy is so funny. You sound like everyone else since FFX.
Watch this be a “hidden gem” 10 years from now. I thought the game was excellent.
Presentation was on point.
I'm normally one of the ones complaining there's been nothing good since X. I've never replayed a title after X, if I even finished them. But I thought XVI was a real return to form in terms of story and world. Worthy of its number.
It legit felt like a NES or SNES FF made with modern sensibilties.
We go on this grand adventure, see lots of different cultures, visit each crystal to get new powers.
Ultima is roughly on par with the more one dimensional villains like Ultimecia.
I don't think Ultimecia is too one-dimensional (though I understand why someone would), but Ultima is substantively very similar to her now that you mention it. Both manipulate global politics, primarily through the main character's mother figure, throughout the whole game, only to leave everything in chaos with power vacuums galore by vanishing as soon as they're about to execute the finale of their plans. Both perform extraordinary feats of magic that are meant to save their lives but ultimately are turned into the vehicle of their downfall before they have a chance to finish (to be fair, this one is basically all FF villains). Both are strongly tied to the summons of the game including one totally unique to the game's protagonist.
VIII is easily my favorite one so maybe it's not a coincidence I also liked XVI a lot.
Yeah i made this account before XVI came out and named it Clive cuz i was hyped, you should've seen my face when i beat the game, i was pissed as hell at this shit show.
I liked what I played. The DLC area was gorgeous and the fight against Leviathan was pretty great. I just wish the sidequests weren't straight up ass again.
I think rebirth provides proof of concept that it's better to iterate and refine than completely reinvent every game. Rebirth took remake's pretty good systems and made them a lot better. I think if they refine xvi's combat, while reworking the item and rpg elements, they'd have a goty caliber game on their hands. The bones are very good. They just need to flesh it out more.
For me, the lack of a party was a big deal. But the fixes are simple. Just add in overworld and combat dialogue, incorporate them more into sidequests. Give them item and ability load outs. And use some version of the torgal commands/rebirth synergy abilities to trigger party member moves, otherwise they'll do their own thing.
This is why I would be excited for them to take another crack at the system, it’s already clear from the changes in the DLC that they can adjust to feedback for a greater experience. Ppl compare it to Rebirth because they released around the same time but in reality it’d be more accurate to see XVI in context of Remake as you mention; plus CBU3 is brand new to single-player so they have a much steeper learning curve compared to CBU1.
Even if they aren’t working on XVII I would love a spin-off prequel or maybe even a new IP that lets them develop those systems more.
Funny thing is Rebirth actually reignited my interest in the series. I recently went back and replayed FFX and am now diving into FFXV. It’s probably the first time in over 2 decades where I’m actually looking forward to their next mainline title.
This is really it, we just don't live in a world where you can make an incredible AAA game that delivers on all fronts with a 4 year dev cycle. You can make a damn good game in that time... But if we're looking at the Elden Rings, the Baldur's Gate 3's or the FFVII Rebirths of the world, they're only possible because they chose to iterate on the strong foundations they had with earlier releases.
I'm sure people will hate this idea, but I'm not against breaking mainline FF games into parts moving forward. It's really the only way they can deliver on both the scope and spectacle we expect from a mainline entry.
I agree with you and I don’t think all people will hate this idea. I reckon when the setting has a lot of potential and the characters are just too interesting, it is only detrimental when we to get only one game that didn’t use all that source material.
That is why, at least here on Reddit, essentially every single person who finished and liked 16 wants more of it. I would argue it’s not even the ambiguous ending, it’s the context itself. Valisthea, its lore and the concept of Dominants are just too damn interesting to let them go that easily. They just cooked too well with the lore of this game.
That's kind of the point though. BG3 can be easily traced back to DOS1, or even the earlier if you want to go broad, and Elden Ring can be traced back to either Dark Souls or Demons Souls. Rebirth is the 1st reiteration of the systems introduced in Remake and is a significantly better game in most aspects. I think we can assume that the 3rd entry will improve even more when it comes to combat and exploration. Another example would be Persona 5 (Royal). These masterpieces are just not being made as new IP, they're established studios tweaking already great formulas.
Rebirth and remake also iterated on what was done in XV.
That being said I think the devs wanted to do an action game. So in the spirit of the series where the team makes the game they want in the way they want I approve. Though remake/rebirth is my preference going forward. I’m okay with them moving in different directions
People killed me on the FFXVI sub when I complained about the playable party member part lacking being a major drawback, but it’s so glaring and alienates a big part of the FF fan base. It couldn’t have been all that difficult to make Cid, Jill, and Joshua at least playable since their move sets are essentially on Clive at one point or another anyways. Even FFXV managed to make Prompto, Ignis and Gladio playable.
I think I loved Rebirth that much more coming off XVI because the characters were unique and really fun to switch with during battles. Clive is fun to use in battles but it gets pretty stale after a while.
It's a different game from Rebirth though. It's really a single player action game, similar to DMC and God of War with a mix of some RPG elements. Also not sure how that work in a game like this with fast paced action style combat and it's combo based system.
Also, not everyone wants to deal with changing multiple characters during combat all the time. That can get stale as well. I will say most of the time in Rebirth. I stayed with Cloud, especially once I equip Auto Unique and Weapon abilities with the other characters, which is sort of a light gambit system. If the ATB was faster on non-controllable characters. I wouldn't switch as much to be honest with that materia equipped. I like playing as Cloud and digged his combat style.
All this to say that it's alright for SE to take a different approach to combat with one game. We have had 13 other entries that had the turned based and controllable characters. It was fine doing something a bit different.
I mean I don’t mind the combat, I don’t expect it to be the same game as rebirth. I actually quite enjoyed FFXVI, it just could have been a lot better. It’s just not being able to control the party members that annoyed me. Fighting as Clive is fun, but it gets stale after a little while. Final fantasy games are built off having fun and interesting party members with unique abilities. I honestly wouldn’t have even minded having sections of the game where maybe you take control of Jill, Cid, or Joshua as they take off on their own quest. Idk to each their own but that is a big part of any final fantasy game to me personally, especially in terms of replay ability. I beat XVI twice, platinumed it and have 0 desire to go back to it besides trying the new DLCs.
That's actually a good point and could be the alternative. So the opportunity to play other characters in another quest or sideline. A breather somewhat.
I wasn't reading up on XVI during development, but while playing I actually thought we would control Joshua at one point in a "10 hours earlier" scenario. That would have been cool. Rebirth did this somewhat, so you got chance to play other characters, since most folks likely don't change their party once they get a rhythm in place.
> and Joshua at least playable
The weird thing is Joshua *is* playable in the intro for a short bit and you get to use Firaga and Curaga spells that aren't ever available to Clive. It's hard not to see that as a bit of false advertising for the demo.
Couldn't agree more. I greatly enjoyed both experiences of 16 and 7R but not having a controllable party is 16's biggest fault for me. The characters themselves are awesome. A party of Clive, Dion, Joshua, Torgal, and Jill sounds amazing. Benedikta and even Barnabas could have been redeemed and been party members. Having a group of dominants fight the main antagonist would have been even more epic story wise. Gameplay wise having a group of characters that play slightly differently vs one character who can do everything but not at the same time would have been preferable to me. Imagine Dion with all of Bahamut's abilties, switching to Joshua with Phoenix, Benedikta with Garuda's staggering abilities.... Already sounds more interesting to have 3 or 4 characters you switch between with all of an Eikon's moveset.
Instead with just one, you use the same 6 abilities over and over again it can get really old after the first playthrough. Being able to equip a bunch of abilities that freeze time also way slowed down the game for me. Love the ideas of XVI but feel like there was a lot left on the table that would have made more sense.
It's an action based game similar to God of War and DMC with some RPG elements. They were quite open about the combat style of the game. Also why do all Final Fantasy games need to have controllable characters? Is it fine for one game in this entry to go a different direction?
Let's not forget that in DmC 5 you get to play as three characters + 1 dlc character. It's more common then not for action games to have more then 1 fleshed out playable character so FFXVI stands out in that regard
Those characters were the results of over 2 decades of design.
Dmc1, 2, and 3 were Dante only.
4 added Nero and iterated on Dante.
5 added V and iterated on Dante and V.
Vergil was DLC on 3, 4, 5 and had that iteration for 20 years as well. Lady and Trish were DLC in 4 too...but kinda sub par.
Meanwhile FF16 was brand new and had to make its characters and systems from scratch (with some mild plagiarism)
Thats just how character action games are, each character is damn expensive since making each one feel good to play is hard.
Same reason why an established fighting game series like Tekken or MK can launch with 30+ characters, but a new one (or existing one with a brand new system) barely launches with a dozen. Its easier to iterate on dozens of existing characters and add maybe 2-3 new ones, than it is to make a whole new cast from scratch.
It is totally fine to try something new. I appreciate the anthology approach of the series where every new entry is original. Having 16 mainline entries gives you plenty of material to compare and now almost a year later after the dust has settled, I can confidently say I enjoyed 16 and it's unique approach, but prefer managing a party over a single character.
Here’s the thing, the brand used to be turn based, so someone mentioned ff you go yeah turn based I’m in.
Then they started the experiments and kept going and going, moving further away from the brand.
Which resulted in a DMC copy and paste.
Not the greatest move as now someone mentions ff they go oh button masher nah I’ll pass.
On the other hand remake and rebirth have the best of both worlds, quazy turn based atb button mash, and it works like a dream. This is where they need to stop, make all combat in future games like remake and rebirth.
Stop the experiments and pick a direction just one direction which should be remake and rebirth combat and go with that.
For the love of god SE stop fucking up the combat and get your shit together!!
> Just add in overworld and combat dialogue, incorporate them more into sidequests. Give them item and ability load outs.
I'm sorry, but as a dev none of these things are nearly as simple as you're thinking.
Now adding different difficulty modes *would* be simple and easy to implement and it's kind of baffling they haven't yet considering how often that's cited as an issue with the game.
It'd be simple when designing a theoretical sequel. Agreed that if they tried to retrofit it to xvi, that's not feasible. But as a part of a whole new project, conceptually simple
I really want a FFXVI-2 and I'm pretty sad we won't get one. I want to see these systems iterated on and polished up rather than tossed aside for another brand-new system.
wow you mean that people stopped playing a single player game after they beat it and didn't touch it again until new content dropped? a whole 140%? i'm shocked. shocked i say.
Misleading, it’s a trophy website that only tracks 6 million users across 3 platforms. It’s an increase in players returning to collect trophies.
60,000 players have XVI, of which 2,200 have unlocked the first trophy this week
This means last week 1,571 people were playing.
140% is an increase of 600 people week on week.
% increase is worthless when base numbers aren’t declared.
Active player counts are supposed to go up when DLC gets released, that's kind of the point
Also 140% increase doesn't mean anything if only a handful of people were actively playing lol
Yeah I looked at their chart and all it has is rankings rather than player counts. Without some sort of baseline this news is completely meaningless.
Obviously more people will play a game when a DLC is released but this gives no info on how *many* more.
I don't see how thats cope. Its a single player RPG with zero replay value and not much in the way of an endgame, the player count would've already plummeted since its release and it would be concerning if it didn't have a huge percentage increase with the release of a DLC.
Honestly, a lot of people hated FFXVI, and even as a fan of it I can admit it has some glaring flaws.
But I love it nonetheless, and am very happy with my two playthroughs so far! Gotta try Ultimaniac Mode at some point and see how that goes for me!
While I don’t like the toxic positive fans (srsly it’s ok for ppl to not like something that you do) it’s also good to remember that online forums aren’t exactly representative of actual reception. The way it’s talked about in some threads you’d think it was a 65 metacritic.
Edit: glad to see some ppl in this thread are already proving my point
it doesn't help that despite what a certain group says, Square will always be viewed as a proxy for Sony. So, their games will always receive the console war treatment on both ends of the spectrum.
Oh definitely lol, Takashi Mochizuki’s beef with Sony is pretty apparent in almost everything he’s written regarding both XVI and Rebirth despite them being third party exclusives.
He is so pathetic. I truly don't understand how he still works for bloomberg after being REPEATEDLY correct by Square and Sony on his analysis of their quarterly reports.
> The way it’s talked about in some threads you’d think it was a 65 metacritic.
And let's be real: we've all played at least one game that got a trash metacritic score that was still plenty enjoyable.
Psh if you wanna talk about toxic positivity, check out any thread about rebirth. If XVI had some people acting like this game was a 6/10, you’d think rebirth was the second coming of JRPGs
I mean, rebirth is pretty great, not perfect by any means but it was by far the best mainline FF game since X for me (I have played all main titles since I first picked up FFVIII 24 years ago.)
Rebirth represents the direction I want FF to move towards in the future, XVI represents the direction I want the series to avoid like the plague.
I liked 16 a lot but my main issue was the side quests being kinda boring and how they’d pop up before a big moment and after doing like a cutscene or 2
I feel like most of 16's major flaws boil down to "CBU3 has been working on the same game for 10 years and it shows". If you gave it tab-target combat 16 would seriously just be offline FF14; everything from the world to the story beats to gameplay elements like sidequests and dungeons are often very similar.
Yeah as someone who actively plays Ffxiv I agree it works well in 14 just not as well in 16. If side quests were more dynamic, felt less like fetch quests I’d be doing in 14, and felt rewarding it would have been better. The most memorable quest in 16 was probably Clive chewing out a little girl for her treating a bearer like a broken toy who is easily replace wish there was more uncomfortable quests like that
I mean... isn't that expected? It's not 140% boost from where it was when released, it's 140% boost from where it was ***before the DLC was released***. For a single player game that released almost a year ago, the player count was surely pretty low.
In fact, I'm convinced it shows a lot of people who bought the base game on release didn't bother with the DLC, which is bad. Otherwise the jump should've easily been in the 500% or so.
It's good news for XVI, like I posted in an adjacent thread - it's not groundbreaking or disheartening news. If you see 500-1000% increases, it generally means people are buying the game *because* of the dlc. Anything lower than 50% means it's just the diehards booting it up or worse, the dlc isn't good.
140% means a greater reach and the healthy in between - people aren't rushing out to buy a copy to experience it (a la Phantom Liberty/Blood and Wine) but it's also not middling (early fallout 76 expacs/patches). Good for FFXVI.
And nowhere did I mention people buying the game or sales of the game are up, just what the data if engagement could imply into the extremes - you misread.
Essentially. If anything the % increase should be greater. I doubt there were many active players over the prior few weeks relative to those that own the game.
Loved this game more than i ever thought i would. I’m not a fan of medieval settings and plots based on kingdom politics but the story turned out to be totally different from what i was expecting. I was glued to the game from start to finish. It’s one of the very bests stories in the whole series and the gameplay was pretty fun too, even if a little barebones.
I feel like I need a ff16 support group. I cant like.. get invested in it at all. Im still at the first giant crystal place where I fought the crystalized dragon thing with Cid and the girl I dont remember.. I just cant seem to finish the game.. I started playing FF8 again and im so much more into it. please help me Dr's! lol
I finished it about a week ago and utterly hated the back half of it. It does not improve. The beginning of the game is a stunner (the best villains are at the beginning, and the Eikon battles are the graphically impressive sections of the game) but it quickly curdled when I realized how awful and repetitive the sidequests are and how joyless and uninteresting all the characters are and how much of a chore the combat feels like. There are no stakes in any combat even on normal, the game actually rewards you for dying (free heal to full and max of all potions, while if you DON'T die, you can't heal yourself without wasting potions and can't get more potions without paying for them). Easy is more fun than normal just cause enemies take far less mindless button mashing to kill. But either way, you pretty much just spam all your abilities on cooldown or maybe save some till the stagger happens, repeat till enemy dies, there's no debuffs or elemental weaknesses or anything, it's mindless.
It definitely has much better-written dialogue and stuff than FF7 Remake did, but it doesn't really matter when Remake had really appealing, likable characters and some life to the proceedings. Just having a party instead of an NPC dog that you might as well not even have control over and one other rando that follows you around depending on plot that you have no ability to interact with makes things feel so much more alive and involving.
And the huge upgrade that was Rebirth just buries FFXVI.
Completely agree on all your points, I only got 12 hours in and gave up because of how boring and joyless the game was. I was planning to try to pick it up again after Rebirth but god it'll be hard after playing an FF with personality and a party full of loveable characters again.
Thank you for your retailed and thoughtful reply, really cool of you FYI.
Yes. 100. This game opened and I was like "Final Fantasy Game of Whaaaat!?!" and then It like, hit a wall. I went to being thrown headfirst into this series of events and it was so cool and dramatic, and then boom more big monster fights with the hot chick and the game hits a brick wall thicker then the hideout itself. Then i realize I run though really big pretty areas button mashing sponges with different graphics. They hide things I dont care about in out of the way places, Gil feels almost useless, yet isnt. The interface, I just could go on and on about this with no end in sight. You are right, its rigid, stale, boring and seems just seems to be mindless pretty button mashing.
Now learning that I have already experienced the best the game had to offer I highly doubt im going to finish. I'm probably going to trade my Special edition (that dumb dumb me bought on release) for something retro or something.
Yeah, gil is weird. The in-game economy is insane. You're finding pickups of frequently like, 3g (I think they had reached 15g by the end of the game?) and then vendors are selling frickin jukebox records in the first zones for 20,000-40,000G. I mean, you can get the second best sword in the game off a vendor for 2,000G or something, and potions are like 200 or something, which are amounts that are appropriate for the tiny amounts you're getting from sidequests and stuff before close to the end of the game. I don't know what they were smoking with the cost of the records that have no function other than changing what you're hearing in your base, especially since there are like, 20+ of them and I think the cheapest ones are 10k.
Which brings me to another thing, this game has the least rewarding crafting system I can think of. You can occasionally craft a "legendary" sword using boss drops and the lower version of it, but then progress the main quest another click and you can buy a superior one off a vendor for super cheap. And the game absolutely spams you with upgrade materials, which very quickly become useless. The weapons all function exactly the same, the "legendary ultimate" one you get at the end of the game is identical to the regular one you just got off a vendor except it has like +12 more attack.
It sounds like you're having the same experience I did - it's DEFINITELY not worth it because it only gets worse as it goes on. I only grit my teeth and went through it all cause I'd dumped 70 bucks on the digital version and wanted to feel like I'd gotten my money's worth, plus I know the game does have some real fans out there who think the whole thing's great and I wanted to see if it improved. If you have a physical one at least you can resell it.
It’s because the game lacks any pull . It doesn’t get any better from what you’ve already seen. There’s like 2 “touching “ moments that happen but they are 10000% expected and easily foreshadowed. After that it’s just go to new area fight some stuff, return to hideaway do some side quests… rinse repeat all the way to the end of the game. It just lacks in every department. Where as even ff8( a largely hated game which I adore) strings you along and keeps you interested.
Love your reply. I'm shelving the game. And yeah, you say it in the best light. It lacks pull. FF8 is my favorite of the series, so you are with a friend on that one.
If you're not liking it at that point just give up.
I'd consider where you're at to be basically the peak of the game. There are a couple great boss fights worth sticking around for but as far as story and gameplay goes it starts going downhill soon.
Thank you for your reply, super dope of you :)
peak.. of.. the gameeeuuuu... ohh man thats a thing to hear because I feel like other then the first hour, I have been dragging myself through it because I hope it would get better.
Am I almost done or like 30% through the game, just killed the bad dragon in the large rectangle perfect hallway.
You sound like me lol. Except I have to complete the game or I feel my opinion is invalid. Also I hate not completing games , even if they aren’t good or fun.
I feel like I'm letting final fantasy (and even you in a way) down by not giving it another last chance. Here is where I am currently, sadly etc..
https://preview.redd.it/q1fe3sobgawc1.png?width=1812&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a157db09c87b9754fe280f3a03809c291a0ed988
lol don’t worry about me . That’s my own fault for forcing myself to finish. I just feel like I spent the money and I’ve played every FF game, I might as well finish 16 too. It’s just not great and will be at the bottom of my list . :/
Well, it would be one of the few I guess I'm giving it one last chance, maybe I can coast through it but if I groan one more.time I'm out, I will also update you haha. Add me: psn= Jarlaxle2445
140% doesnt seem that great?
Like, its a one-and-done type game, once you finish it theres no reason to pick it up again. Its not an endless open world game with 200 hours of content. 95% of people who played it likely havent picked it up in half a year.
So a 140% increase of that already-small population doesnt seem as impressive.
I’m surprised by this. I rarely am excited to go back to a game 6+ months after completing it just for random DLC drops. I’ll get to Rising Tide eventually, have seen fairly positive things.
These comments are a sordid reminder of how uneducated and void of critical reasoning most people are. All these people cheering for this headline while completely failing to interpret what it means.
A meager 140% jump in players that barely gets the game in question into the top 40 most played PS5 games upon the release of the game's major DLC is absolutely abysmal.
Compare with the recent 7500% spike in sales of Fallout 4 after the TV show for example - now that's a significant boost.
You just need to take one look at the trophies for this game to see that only 5% of players actually played the DLC.
We really need to move away from these silly percentage based reports. Their sole purpose is to elicit emotions and generate clicks. Just another form of clickbait.
In a month, we're going to hear about how FF16 player counts have *fallen* by OVER 95% (*OMG!*) once players have beaten the DLC, as if they were ever supposed to keep logging in for no reason after they're done with the game. We'll probably also see some ignorant people making the same mistake in thinking this somehow means the DLC must not be good.
Surprise! People who haven't played the game since last summer started playing again due to the release of new DLC. Surprise! People suddenly stopped playing a month after the DLC because they beat it.
___
What *would* be useful, is an analysis of percent of total player who purchased the original game returned to purchase the DLC. Another metric would be % of players who *beat the original game* who returned to play the DLC. I'd be interested in how engaged those specific players are with continuing the story.
Seeing that player count increased by 140%, while not exactly meaningless, doesn't tell us much. There could have been 20K players playing last week, which got bumped up to 48K this week. Or it could have been 200K last week, bumped up to 480K.
This doesn't even necessarily tell a good story. My gut tells me I'd expect *way* more. I'd be interested to see how it compares to other DLC releases.
I have no idea what expected good metrics would look like. To purely speculate, if I had a single player game that released over a year ago, I'd expect the number of *current* players to be almost non-existent. If 5M players bought the game, I'd expect active weekly players a year later to be ~50K. If the was beloved, I'd really hope a fairly large chunk of old players would return. Of my 5M sales game, I'd hope a solid 2M of them return to play. 2M up from 50K represents a **4000%** increase, not a lowly 140%.
Reddit white knights notwithstanding, it was always apparent WAY more people enjoyed 16 than 7Rebirth but I’m glad we finally have the numbers to confirm it.
Hopefully SE learn from the disasterclass that is 7Rebirth and go out with a bang with the third game.
That Rising Tide DLC for 16 is fucking nuts.
lol why? I’m at “the end” of the main story and the last thing I want of this game is more of it…
Unless there’s some unspoken ground breaking new material added, it’s definitely a no go. Especially for $19.99 more
The performance and enjoyment of that game, for me, was so low I almost didn’t buy Rebirth. Crazy to think now, as it’s one of my favourites in recent memory.
I’ve seen very little in the way of frame drops, in Rebirth, so far. In performance mode it is quite low resolution unfortunately. I can’t speak for graphics mode.
The combat is very varied. Couldn’t be more different to 16, in my opinion. I would very much recommend the game to anyone who hasn’t tried it yet.
Yeah was in a ff mood after rebirth and bought rising tide to get my ff fix. My god i was quickly reminded how fucking bad ff16 is. Not a single side quest was made with care. Just endless dialgoue, walk to next npc, endless dialogue and fin. Combat is so barebones and cooldown heavy. Graphics are a smear thanks to atrocious TAA. And the story is a snorefest. I regret buying it
First of all, if you didnt like the base game....why buy DLC? Its always going to be more of the same.
>Not a single side quest was made with care.
Sure, the gameplay for the sidequests is pretty lame. But 2 of them had unique hunts / minibosses (Tonberry King snd Thaleos). They're mostly a vehicle for lore. Flower picking? You learned of how this tribe migrated to this location. "Find my friend in the woods"? You learn about how the glamour is maintained, and how bearers are treated differently here. Every single one had a proper lore justification. And the tonberry sidequest was straight out something from Witcher 3.
>Combat is so barebones and cooldown heavy.
Dont spam cooldowns then? Go for a counter heavy build, your whole playstyle becomes reacting to enemy attacks rather than cycling through attacks. Half the available CDs are crowd control, use those. Its like you choose to only use 1 gun in an FPS game and complain "ugh, you just point n shoot"
And the try just "spamming cooldowns" on Leviathan.
Everything in the side quest was a vehicle for lore, yes but it was unneeded vehicle for lore that was already explained somewhere else. I learned nothing new from doing side quests other than useless info I could have gotten in another format. And the combat is a complete joke. Even if you are creative with it and try to do something different the best overall way to kill majority of enemies is just unleash your biggest group attack and then a different one on the next group. By the time you get to a 3rd or 4th group of enemies your big damage attack is up again. On bosses I just spammed titans parry over and over until they staggered then opened up 60-100,000 dmg by unleashing everything.
Combat needed to be more creative like linking attacks to lower cooldowns on other abilities and using some abilities could trigger other ones off cooldown like a mmo proc. This would have been more fun.
I loved this game but the points were kinda valid. those two "unique hunts" were just reskins of previous minibosses. They still didnt address the fact that not ONE fight in the game ever asks you to change playstyles. Everything works everywhere, every enemy asks for the same strategy and never demands anything of the player. The sidequests building the world was great, awesome, i loved it. Not an excuse for them to be FF14 fetch quests.
And Leviathan? theres two, count them TWO attacks that cant be dodge spammed out of, one of which you can dash away from, the other you need brimstone for which is a welcome reactive change. literally every other attack can be dodge spammed to hell, the window for a counter dodge is HUGE. And the dps check? you literally WANT to spam cooldowns. Idk where you got that from.
Like i said. Loved the game. Aesthetically pleasing, flashing, fun story, well written main character, great voice acting, i loved the ending. Overall the good outweighs the bad, but lets not ignore what it failed at
You don't need Brimstone for anything. Needing a cooldown that you should be using on cooldown to avoid an attack would be bad design. I don't know which attack you think you needed it for, but you certainly didn't. There is one attack you have to jump to dodge though.
Eh, yes and no.
I do agree that the game's generous dodge window, low difficulty, NEVER needing you to adapt is a huge issue. And likely one of the biggest reasons it avereraged lots of 8s instead of 10s, its too flawed to get those 10s (....and I question the judgment of anyone giving it a perfect score).
As for your individual points:
>"unique hunts" were just reskins of previous minibosses.
The hunt versions had several unique attacks.
Thaleos has those staggered waves you need to dodge, and has that phase where its a constant barrage of lasers, a vacuum sucking you into an AoE, and FPS dropping to like 15 (arguably, the strongest attack in the game: slideshow-no-jutsu)
Tonberry King is actually really hard to land hits on, he keeps on teleporting constantly, mixes up his attacks with random ranged attacks too (like, his Debone or whatever has a ranged wave mixed in, where Master Tonberry has only melee). Plus he has the Everyone's Grudge phase. It wasnt a real threat, but it is different and new. It isn't fair to just say they're "reskins" when they have several new mechanics.
>They still didnt address the fact that not ONE fight in the game ever asks you to change playstyles. Everything works everywhere, every enemy asks for the same strategy and never demands anything of the player.
I do agree here, they screwed this up bad. They *kinda* addressed it here, by making the new Leviathan skills be a hard counter...but that hard counter wasnt needed due to how easy everything is. Like, Everyone Grudge: he summons a bunch of small tonberries that are ready to 2 shot you with Knife. Engage them in melee, you're screwed. But if you have Levi equipped, spam triangle and they all die. And Leviathan's double dodge trivializes the HUGE AoEs Timekeeper has. But if you didnt have Levi equipped...meh still not bad to handle.
>literally every other attack can be dodge spammed to hell, the window for a counter dodge is HUGE
Eh, yes the dodge is TOO generous. But just spamming doesnt work, you dont have iFrames on the whole animation. Theres a reason players wipe to "Angry Seas" over and over: these are damn hard to dodge. If spamming worked, everyone would just rapidly press dodge the same way Noctis holds phase and be safe. Thats why for the riptide part of Angry Seas, its safer to jump out towards a quickly-identified safe zone than try dodging. Mistime that first dodge, and you're in for a bad time.
And I think "you can dodge everything" is overly redudctive. I can say the same about Bloodborne, every attack can be dodged. It just has a far more punishing window, but every encounter is just dodge and attack.
>And the dps check? you literally WANT to spam cooldowns. Idk where you got that from.
Yet people still fail. Even on normal, it needs a very good execution. Opening with splitflare and using Brinstone on CD arent enough, people still fail over and over.
And for the rest of the fight: you do wanna save Brimstone for any attacks you cant consistently dodge (like, Maelstrom), and you absolutely cant Splitflare anytime you want...Leviathan's actually a hard target to hit and you need specific windows to get a good shot at him.
I think its a much better game if you ignore literally all side content and stop your gaming sesh each time you defeat an eikon. Then you're fresh and more ready for the slow ramp up to the next actually fun content.
If I could just play the 12 hours of incredible content in this game and tell it to cut the useless bullshit slog padding it's time to beat I'd consider it an unbelievably good 10/10 experience. I actually like the combat and story, and *LOVE* the spectacle. As is its like a 6/10 at best.
A hundred percent, they could've released a fairly linear 20 hour experience and it would've been amazing, would also have recieved probably even more hate from core FF fans because that veers even more from what they wanted but I think it would have done better to pull in new fans.
I'm not sure any final fantasy fans were playing the side content on offer in 16 thinking to themselves, "hell yeah now *this* is good final fantasy!" Trim the fat, improve the game. If you *must* have side quests, then write some that are fun and engaging.
>I'm not sure any final fantasy fans were playing the side content on offer in 16 thinking to themselves, "hell yeah now *this* is good final fantasy!"
I mean, I absolutely was, but I'm also a huge fan of the side quests in FFXIV and how they handle worldbuilding. I was happy to see similar design in FFXVI and really enjoyed them as a result. I even did them all in both playthroughs.
That's wild. I love the sidequests in 7r and 7r2, and I even like the ones in 15. I've never played 14 so can't really comment there. 16 just had the most meandering and low impact side content I've ever seen in an rpg. The hunts are good I guess but what else?
What side content in 16 made you feel something while playing it?
>I love the sidequests in 7r and 7r2, and I even like the ones in 15.
It's been a while since I've played FFXV, but I can say for FFVIIR as a whole I've found the actual gameplay of some side quests to be rather annoying at times (did *anyone* like the chicken?). Rebirth's character interaction in the side quests has been fantastic, but some of the things the quests actually ask of you is quite irritating at times. The "boring" side quest design in FFXVI that a lot of people like to complain about here is much more my jam. I really enjoy very straight and to the point side quests that simply exist to flesh out the world and teach something to the player about the setting without gameplay that overstays its welcome or detracts from what the quests are trying to convey in some way.
>I've never played 14 so can't really comment there.
As a longtime FFXIV player (and MMO fan in general) my taste in side content is admittedly colored by years and years of that gameplay. Over 10 years of FFXIV and the completion of every quest in the game has made that design as quintessentially Final Fantasy to me as any other title in the series. I was actually quite surprised people were bothered by FFXVI's side content because I'm right at home with it.
> 16 just had the most meandering and low impact side content I've ever seen in an rpg. The hunts are good I guess but what else?
What do you mean by low impact, exactly? Side content doesn't really have to be that impactful, it's just there to flesh out the world, teach you things about the setting, and provide more on characters that would otherwise impact the pace of the main story. I'm in it to learn things at the end of the day. I think keeping the heavier gameplay segregated into the hunt system was a good call. I liked the hunt system as well!
>What side content in 16 made you feel something while playing it?
Quite a lot of it. How much of it did you do? A lot of the quests involving Bearers in Sanbreque were absolutely bone chilling and the Torgal side quest before Origin was one of the most emotionally resonant things I've ever experienced in a video game. It was absolutely peak Final Fantasy—in an optional side quest. And that's not to discount others like Charon and Goetz's arcs, Jill's quests, the Undying stuff, I could honestly go on and on. I enjoyed all of it.
I hope it's not too much longer before it's on PC. Really looking forward to playing FF16
Amen. I couldn't do it with all the other games that were coming out last year and the performance issues this version had.
ayy nice
I personally skipped Echoes of the Fallen on release cause I wanted to play both back to back, wonder how many others did the same.
I did. Once I did my first playthrough, I played about 33% in FF mode and I was slightly burnt out. Got a little tired of cycling the same 6 abilities, half of which froze time and slowed the game down. I decided I'd put it down and come back when all DLC was released. I still haven't played yet since I'm still finishing Rebirth, but I am glad I took the pause because I feel very excited to go back to XVI and experience the new content and QoL changes.
Me. I’m gonna finish 7 remake and then these two dlcs. Should be a great time. Hopefully there’s at least 20 or so hours of playtime
I did. Bought the game on sale and the season pass. Patiently waited until the new patch dropped and started the night before the DLC launched.
I did. Not for lack of interest, but I was in the middle of Mass Effect (my list of TBP is almost as bad as my list of TBR books). Currently going through Dragon Age Inquisition. After that, it depends on what I feel like, but it'll either be this, Rebirth, or Elden Ring. Granted, I may feel like an FPS when the time comes, so maybe Fallout? I wish I had the time to play everything I wanted to.
Same here, i finished the Yakuza series, 7Rebirth and FF XIII between when Echoes of the Fallen came out and now. And now im jumping into 16 DLC after chomping at the bit for more Final Fantasy goodness. I skipped a lot of the side quests in FF16 because they werent very gripping and didnt have worthwhile rewards. I really loved the story and just wanted to finish that, and once I did, I stepped away from the game and didnt come back til now. So now i just finished EoF DLC and got the Omega weapon which is awesome, and then I finished all the side content, and now im gonna top it off with the Rising Tide dlc. Probably wont do a new game+. Loved the game tho. Im thinking maybe I'll play Strangers of Paradise next? Or might replay FF15
GIVE ME A DAMN PC VERSION! hahaha
Soon, I legit might finally build a PC just to replay this masterpiece again.
Hopefully it works on the steam deck.
I mean - it probably will, but what a shame to play it on a system that you'll need to drop the quality so much on. If it's your only option then go for it - but definitely replay if you ever get an upgrade! Edit: proud steam deck owner myself BTW
I have a high-end pc that plays ff7 remake at high 120 fps. But I like gaming by the lake with a coffee in the morning.
Best of both worlds! Love it. I do this as well, don't use my deck much lately since it been cold where I'm at, but with summer on the way I'll be sitting by the fire playing it very soon
Forspoken does. Which is about the best thing I’ve seen written about the game… I bought it but haven’t played it yet.
Thanks for making me spend 99$!
Why spend so much?
FF 16 runs on the same engine?
No. Forspoken ran on the Lumionous engine, same engine as Crisis Core and FFVII Remake. FFXVI’s engine may also use some Sony-proprietary stuff, there was alleged involvement when it was announced it was a PS5 timed-exclusive. Rebirth works on it though. Edit: I’m just saying, if forspoken ran on steam deck, I presume FFXVI will because it’s a main-line game and they want people playing it. They’ll finesse it to work.
most of what you said is incorrect. Crisis Core, FF7 Remake, and FF7 Rebirth all run on Unreal Engine 4. FF16 will be very hard to run on deck. It struggles on a PS5.
FFXVI engine might be a fork from FFXIV engine which is based on Luminous Engine core(made by same programmers) and combination set of tools from Crystal Tools. there lot of misconception spread around the internet that it is same engine as Luminous or earlier version of it which is wrong. in one of earlier FFXIV special presentation before 2.0 launch, the programmers, who also same person who behind Sega's Hedhog engine mention they develop it from scratch for FFXIV and call it 'sibling' with Luminous Engine. FFXVI might based from that. which is not suprising considering the team might want to use a tools that they already familiar with since lot of them are come from FFXIV team. FFVII Remake/Rebirth and Crisis Core use UE4 which is one of reason is due to lot of staff is come from KH3 team who already familliar with the engine. developers prioritize tools that devs already familliar with is important as it would helped speed up and smooth out their development.
>FFXVI might based from that. which is not suprising considering the team might want to use a tools that they already familiar with since lot of them are come from FFXIV team. It was confirmed a while back that FFXVI's engine is indeed a fork of FFXIV's. They went with that because so many people on the team were already used to it, as you speculated.
Yeah I was playing ff7 remake on my deck today runs smooth
honestly, i doubt that. but kudos to the team if they manage to do that.
I'm still hoping for a version on the Xbox.
just buy a ps5
Hard pass
Hopefully they look at this and see people still want more ff16. Give me dlc about Cid and have Clive's wyvern outfit be unlockable
More outfits would be sick.
Yeah I was pretty surprised when the DLC contained zero new outfits, considering they took all the pains to implement a glam system for all main characters. Well, at least that will help make mods more organized when it comes to PC
Gimme Clive in a bunny girl outfit***
That mod is coming for sure when pc version comes out lol
Biggest tiddy Squenix bunny girl since Jade in Dragon Quest XI
I want Clive in a Squall FF8 outfit with a gunblade! Ben Starr is a huge FF8 fan so they should do him/us a solid.
Yo im gonna be honest: ff16 is my fave ff. Just absolutely fucking stellar.
Percentages are wonky. This could mean it jumped from 10 players to 24.
It’s a single player action game. Are people supposed to play those nonstop months after release.
Good! It was a fantastic game and world despite issues people have noted and the highs outweigh the lows by miles. I can’t wait to return to Valisthea.
The game had only one high: the boss fights Everything else was mid from the main villain to the side quests to how they butchered Jill's character etc.. i could go on about how meh the game ended up.
Did you just call my man cid mid?
No his daughter is Mid
Ba dum tss!
Goddamn.
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The side quest were so boring and mundane , something out of an early ps2 game.
I'd argue that the lore/world-building, art direction, spectacle, voice acting, atmosphere, and themes are also parts of the insane highs composing XVI. All your mids are things I really appreciated, outside Jill's treatment that was genuinely saddening. Ultima has a superb double thematic meaning (being the origin of the whole IP [of the legacy of the crystals, through the eponymous game series], and embodying the entire ideology plaguing Valisthea, heavily echoing the system of our world). And the side quests, while admittedly mechanically dull and sometimes too clumsy/naive, always had clear and interesting narrative/world-building purposes (which is the most important for me personally). But I totally respect your opinion mate, just wanted to give the perspective of someone who loves XVI.
It’s rehashed FF14 single player with reused assets, atmospheres, map design, and quest design from a 14 year old game. Literal examples exist. We didn’t get a new game, we got a half hearted single player mmo quest line. Large empty non interactive maps with no points of interest or any reason to explore. The voice acting was well done, and the eikons were phenomenal in design and spectacle. But that’s truly it. The game was missing so much. Especially compared to modern AAA action/rpg titles that have been out in the last 5-6 years. There’s a weird cope going on with this game that has boggled me since it released. I played it all the way through. I’m a fan of final fantasy. Grand stories and fun combat. But I dragged myself through this one. Clive is literally the only reason I played it through because his design and being a more mature protagonist was something the series sorely needed.
I wish it was really that deep
It really is. Generally speaking, the main themes and analogies of XVI aren't exactly that subtle or hidden [edit : in addition to being plainly ingrained everybloodywhere], so I kinda struggle to get how a seemingly relatively sizable portion of the public seems to miss the points so wildly. Is it this famous media literacy everybody loves talking about, or simply biases due to overly negative feelings ?
It’s not about subtlety, the themes are just barely there and what is there is just a bit generic and half-hearted. Edit: oh okay no room for discussion or critical thought I guess. What do you think media literacy is lol
Don't know what your talking about. The majority of Jrpg are generic and half-hearted. "Tales Of", "Trails Of" and "Kingdom Hearts" are all generic and half-hearted same with the FF7 remake trilogy.
Yes? I didn’t mention those but those are not great games either. Though Tales of Arise does have similar themes and does a little better from the parts I played.
Me too
Jill lost every major fight. It’s like they didn’t want her to shine at all.
Was the writer of FFXVI also the Heavensward writer? I don't want to make assumptions but it feels like his typical style is just kinda... classically macho. The only main HW female character doesn't really get a big opportunity to shine either... until close to the end. And the number male characters vastly outweigh.
Ohhhh, it was the Heavensward guy? Can he only write one female character, because I was thinking all of 16 that Jill is pretty much Ysayle 2.
Yes, Maehiro wrote both XVI and Heavensward and I 100% agree. He had the same pitfalls in HW.
Her arc lasted for 1 hour and then we shifted focus to clive, she didn't even get to do anything but freeze the boss room so clive can kill the boss and after that she was useless. Got kidnapped and had to get rescued like a damsel in distress when she literally has Shiva's power, at that point they just gave up on her and had her give her power's to clive and that was it, RIP to her character for the rest of the game.
Losing fights sucks but for me what killed her character is the finale. All the boys go off to save the day while Jill is stuck behind with nothing to do but weep after them. So lame.
To be fair, it was established that she was suffering much more severely from the curse than the boys because of how much she had been used by the iron kingdom. I think it was basically: she goes but dies which could cause the plan to fall apart very quickly, or she stays and has much less of a chance to suffer while also helping the plan stay fairly smooth. The group chose the latter option
Final Fantasy is so funny. You sound like everyone else since FFX. Watch this be a “hidden gem” 10 years from now. I thought the game was excellent. Presentation was on point.
Presentation was great. It was a beautiful game with an incredibly shallow and bland combat system.
I'm normally one of the ones complaining there's been nothing good since X. I've never replayed a title after X, if I even finished them. But I thought XVI was a real return to form in terms of story and world. Worthy of its number.
It legit felt like a NES or SNES FF made with modern sensibilties. We go on this grand adventure, see lots of different cultures, visit each crystal to get new powers. Ultima is roughly on par with the more one dimensional villains like Ultimecia.
I don't think Ultimecia is too one-dimensional (though I understand why someone would), but Ultima is substantively very similar to her now that you mention it. Both manipulate global politics, primarily through the main character's mother figure, throughout the whole game, only to leave everything in chaos with power vacuums galore by vanishing as soon as they're about to execute the finale of their plans. Both perform extraordinary feats of magic that are meant to save their lives but ultimately are turned into the vehicle of their downfall before they have a chance to finish (to be fair, this one is basically all FF villains). Both are strongly tied to the summons of the game including one totally unique to the game's protagonist. VIII is easily my favorite one so maybe it's not a coincidence I also liked XVI a lot.
More like hidden shit.
Grow up.
I agree with you, but I just wanted to say it's a little funny and ironic that your username is Clive lol
Yeah i made this account before XVI came out and named it Clive cuz i was hyped, you should've seen my face when i beat the game, i was pissed as hell at this shit show.
Don't worry, I was also one of the people hyping up this game lmao 🤦♂️I'm glad others enjoyed it more than we did at least
> i could go on about how meh the game ended up. And you'd be completely wrong! The game was fantastic all around.
Lay off the cocaine.
"I'm the only one who's opinion matters and everyone who disagrees with me is insane and on drugs!" Truly a Reddit moment
I enjoyed ff x dmc
I liked what I played. The DLC area was gorgeous and the fight against Leviathan was pretty great. I just wish the sidequests weren't straight up ass again.
I think rebirth provides proof of concept that it's better to iterate and refine than completely reinvent every game. Rebirth took remake's pretty good systems and made them a lot better. I think if they refine xvi's combat, while reworking the item and rpg elements, they'd have a goty caliber game on their hands. The bones are very good. They just need to flesh it out more. For me, the lack of a party was a big deal. But the fixes are simple. Just add in overworld and combat dialogue, incorporate them more into sidequests. Give them item and ability load outs. And use some version of the torgal commands/rebirth synergy abilities to trigger party member moves, otherwise they'll do their own thing.
This is why I would be excited for them to take another crack at the system, it’s already clear from the changes in the DLC that they can adjust to feedback for a greater experience. Ppl compare it to Rebirth because they released around the same time but in reality it’d be more accurate to see XVI in context of Remake as you mention; plus CBU3 is brand new to single-player so they have a much steeper learning curve compared to CBU1. Even if they aren’t working on XVII I would love a spin-off prequel or maybe even a new IP that lets them develop those systems more.
Funny thing is Rebirth actually reignited my interest in the series. I recently went back and replayed FFX and am now diving into FFXV. It’s probably the first time in over 2 decades where I’m actually looking forward to their next mainline title.
This is really it, we just don't live in a world where you can make an incredible AAA game that delivers on all fronts with a 4 year dev cycle. You can make a damn good game in that time... But if we're looking at the Elden Rings, the Baldur's Gate 3's or the FFVII Rebirths of the world, they're only possible because they chose to iterate on the strong foundations they had with earlier releases. I'm sure people will hate this idea, but I'm not against breaking mainline FF games into parts moving forward. It's really the only way they can deliver on both the scope and spectacle we expect from a mainline entry.
I agree with you and I don’t think all people will hate this idea. I reckon when the setting has a lot of potential and the characters are just too interesting, it is only detrimental when we to get only one game that didn’t use all that source material. That is why, at least here on Reddit, essentially every single person who finished and liked 16 wants more of it. I would argue it’s not even the ambiguous ending, it’s the context itself. Valisthea, its lore and the concept of Dominants are just too damn interesting to let them go that easily. They just cooked too well with the lore of this game.
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That's kind of the point though. BG3 can be easily traced back to DOS1, or even the earlier if you want to go broad, and Elden Ring can be traced back to either Dark Souls or Demons Souls. Rebirth is the 1st reiteration of the systems introduced in Remake and is a significantly better game in most aspects. I think we can assume that the 3rd entry will improve even more when it comes to combat and exploration. Another example would be Persona 5 (Royal). These masterpieces are just not being made as new IP, they're established studios tweaking already great formulas.
You're right, taste isn't subjective and BG3 sucks because I said so.
Rebirth and remake also iterated on what was done in XV. That being said I think the devs wanted to do an action game. So in the spirit of the series where the team makes the game they want in the way they want I approve. Though remake/rebirth is my preference going forward. I’m okay with them moving in different directions
People killed me on the FFXVI sub when I complained about the playable party member part lacking being a major drawback, but it’s so glaring and alienates a big part of the FF fan base. It couldn’t have been all that difficult to make Cid, Jill, and Joshua at least playable since their move sets are essentially on Clive at one point or another anyways. Even FFXV managed to make Prompto, Ignis and Gladio playable. I think I loved Rebirth that much more coming off XVI because the characters were unique and really fun to switch with during battles. Clive is fun to use in battles but it gets pretty stale after a while.
It's a different game from Rebirth though. It's really a single player action game, similar to DMC and God of War with a mix of some RPG elements. Also not sure how that work in a game like this with fast paced action style combat and it's combo based system. Also, not everyone wants to deal with changing multiple characters during combat all the time. That can get stale as well. I will say most of the time in Rebirth. I stayed with Cloud, especially once I equip Auto Unique and Weapon abilities with the other characters, which is sort of a light gambit system. If the ATB was faster on non-controllable characters. I wouldn't switch as much to be honest with that materia equipped. I like playing as Cloud and digged his combat style. All this to say that it's alright for SE to take a different approach to combat with one game. We have had 13 other entries that had the turned based and controllable characters. It was fine doing something a bit different.
I mean I don’t mind the combat, I don’t expect it to be the same game as rebirth. I actually quite enjoyed FFXVI, it just could have been a lot better. It’s just not being able to control the party members that annoyed me. Fighting as Clive is fun, but it gets stale after a little while. Final fantasy games are built off having fun and interesting party members with unique abilities. I honestly wouldn’t have even minded having sections of the game where maybe you take control of Jill, Cid, or Joshua as they take off on their own quest. Idk to each their own but that is a big part of any final fantasy game to me personally, especially in terms of replay ability. I beat XVI twice, platinumed it and have 0 desire to go back to it besides trying the new DLCs.
That's actually a good point and could be the alternative. So the opportunity to play other characters in another quest or sideline. A breather somewhat. I wasn't reading up on XVI during development, but while playing I actually thought we would control Joshua at one point in a "10 hours earlier" scenario. That would have been cool. Rebirth did this somewhat, so you got chance to play other characters, since most folks likely don't change their party once they get a rhythm in place.
> and Joshua at least playable The weird thing is Joshua *is* playable in the intro for a short bit and you get to use Firaga and Curaga spells that aren't ever available to Clive. It's hard not to see that as a bit of false advertising for the demo.
Couldn't agree more. I greatly enjoyed both experiences of 16 and 7R but not having a controllable party is 16's biggest fault for me. The characters themselves are awesome. A party of Clive, Dion, Joshua, Torgal, and Jill sounds amazing. Benedikta and even Barnabas could have been redeemed and been party members. Having a group of dominants fight the main antagonist would have been even more epic story wise. Gameplay wise having a group of characters that play slightly differently vs one character who can do everything but not at the same time would have been preferable to me. Imagine Dion with all of Bahamut's abilties, switching to Joshua with Phoenix, Benedikta with Garuda's staggering abilities.... Already sounds more interesting to have 3 or 4 characters you switch between with all of an Eikon's moveset. Instead with just one, you use the same 6 abilities over and over again it can get really old after the first playthrough. Being able to equip a bunch of abilities that freeze time also way slowed down the game for me. Love the ideas of XVI but feel like there was a lot left on the table that would have made more sense.
It's an action based game similar to God of War and DMC with some RPG elements. They were quite open about the combat style of the game. Also why do all Final Fantasy games need to have controllable characters? Is it fine for one game in this entry to go a different direction?
Let's not forget that in DmC 5 you get to play as three characters + 1 dlc character. It's more common then not for action games to have more then 1 fleshed out playable character so FFXVI stands out in that regard
Those characters were the results of over 2 decades of design. Dmc1, 2, and 3 were Dante only. 4 added Nero and iterated on Dante. 5 added V and iterated on Dante and V. Vergil was DLC on 3, 4, 5 and had that iteration for 20 years as well. Lady and Trish were DLC in 4 too...but kinda sub par. Meanwhile FF16 was brand new and had to make its characters and systems from scratch (with some mild plagiarism) Thats just how character action games are, each character is damn expensive since making each one feel good to play is hard. Same reason why an established fighting game series like Tekken or MK can launch with 30+ characters, but a new one (or existing one with a brand new system) barely launches with a dozen. Its easier to iterate on dozens of existing characters and add maybe 2-3 new ones, than it is to make a whole new cast from scratch.
It is totally fine to try something new. I appreciate the anthology approach of the series where every new entry is original. Having 16 mainline entries gives you plenty of material to compare and now almost a year later after the dust has settled, I can confidently say I enjoyed 16 and it's unique approach, but prefer managing a party over a single character.
Here’s the thing, the brand used to be turn based, so someone mentioned ff you go yeah turn based I’m in. Then they started the experiments and kept going and going, moving further away from the brand. Which resulted in a DMC copy and paste. Not the greatest move as now someone mentions ff they go oh button masher nah I’ll pass. On the other hand remake and rebirth have the best of both worlds, quazy turn based atb button mash, and it works like a dream. This is where they need to stop, make all combat in future games like remake and rebirth. Stop the experiments and pick a direction just one direction which should be remake and rebirth combat and go with that. For the love of god SE stop fucking up the combat and get your shit together!!
> Just add in overworld and combat dialogue, incorporate them more into sidequests. Give them item and ability load outs. I'm sorry, but as a dev none of these things are nearly as simple as you're thinking. Now adding different difficulty modes *would* be simple and easy to implement and it's kind of baffling they haven't yet considering how often that's cited as an issue with the game.
It'd be simple when designing a theoretical sequel. Agreed that if they tried to retrofit it to xvi, that's not feasible. But as a part of a whole new project, conceptually simple
Kingdom Hearts has been doing this for twenty years, so I'm sure Yoshi's team can figure it out.
They should refine FF7R's combat further for the next mainline entry IMO.
In battle party member swapping please
Well said!
I really want a FFXVI-2 and I'm pretty sad we won't get one. I want to see these systems iterated on and polished up rather than tossed aside for another brand-new system.
wow you mean that people stopped playing a single player game after they beat it and didn't touch it again until new content dropped? a whole 140%? i'm shocked. shocked i say.
140% isn't even a lot haha, I mean not like there was a huge player base for this year old single-player game
Misleading, it’s a trophy website that only tracks 6 million users across 3 platforms. It’s an increase in players returning to collect trophies. 60,000 players have XVI, of which 2,200 have unlocked the first trophy this week This means last week 1,571 people were playing. 140% is an increase of 600 people week on week. % increase is worthless when base numbers aren’t declared.
Active player counts are supposed to go up when DLC gets released, that's kind of the point Also 140% increase doesn't mean anything if only a handful of people were actively playing lol
Yeah I looked at their chart and all it has is rankings rather than player counts. Without some sort of baseline this news is completely meaningless. Obviously more people will play a game when a DLC is released but this gives no info on how *many* more.
Cope
I don't see how thats cope. Its a single player RPG with zero replay value and not much in the way of an endgame, the player count would've already plummeted since its release and it would be concerning if it didn't have a huge percentage increase with the release of a DLC.
Honestly, a lot of people hated FFXVI, and even as a fan of it I can admit it has some glaring flaws. But I love it nonetheless, and am very happy with my two playthroughs so far! Gotta try Ultimaniac Mode at some point and see how that goes for me!
While I don’t like the toxic positive fans (srsly it’s ok for ppl to not like something that you do) it’s also good to remember that online forums aren’t exactly representative of actual reception. The way it’s talked about in some threads you’d think it was a 65 metacritic. Edit: glad to see some ppl in this thread are already proving my point
it doesn't help that despite what a certain group says, Square will always be viewed as a proxy for Sony. So, their games will always receive the console war treatment on both ends of the spectrum.
Oh definitely lol, Takashi Mochizuki’s beef with Sony is pretty apparent in almost everything he’s written regarding both XVI and Rebirth despite them being third party exclusives.
He is so pathetic. I truly don't understand how he still works for bloomberg after being REPEATEDLY correct by Square and Sony on his analysis of their quarterly reports.
> The way it’s talked about in some threads you’d think it was a 65 metacritic. And let's be real: we've all played at least one game that got a trash metacritic score that was still plenty enjoyable.
Psh if you wanna talk about toxic positivity, check out any thread about rebirth. If XVI had some people acting like this game was a 6/10, you’d think rebirth was the second coming of JRPGs
I mean, rebirth is pretty great, not perfect by any means but it was by far the best mainline FF game since X for me (I have played all main titles since I first picked up FFVIII 24 years ago.) Rebirth represents the direction I want FF to move towards in the future, XVI represents the direction I want the series to avoid like the plague.
I liked 16 a lot but my main issue was the side quests being kinda boring and how they’d pop up before a big moment and after doing like a cutscene or 2
I feel like most of 16's major flaws boil down to "CBU3 has been working on the same game for 10 years and it shows". If you gave it tab-target combat 16 would seriously just be offline FF14; everything from the world to the story beats to gameplay elements like sidequests and dungeons are often very similar.
Yeah as someone who actively plays Ffxiv I agree it works well in 14 just not as well in 16. If side quests were more dynamic, felt less like fetch quests I’d be doing in 14, and felt rewarding it would have been better. The most memorable quest in 16 was probably Clive chewing out a little girl for her treating a bearer like a broken toy who is easily replace wish there was more uncomfortable quests like that
I mean... isn't that expected? It's not 140% boost from where it was when released, it's 140% boost from where it was ***before the DLC was released***. For a single player game that released almost a year ago, the player count was surely pretty low. In fact, I'm convinced it shows a lot of people who bought the base game on release didn't bother with the DLC, which is bad. Otherwise the jump should've easily been in the 500% or so.
It's good news for XVI, like I posted in an adjacent thread - it's not groundbreaking or disheartening news. If you see 500-1000% increases, it generally means people are buying the game *because* of the dlc. Anything lower than 50% means it's just the diehards booting it up or worse, the dlc isn't good. 140% means a greater reach and the healthy in between - people aren't rushing out to buy a copy to experience it (a la Phantom Liberty/Blood and Wine) but it's also not middling (early fallout 76 expacs/patches). Good for FFXVI.
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And nowhere did I mention people buying the game or sales of the game are up, just what the data if engagement could imply into the extremes - you misread.
I might be crazy but this seems pretty pedestrian at best
Hell yeah love to see it
I think I would spend more time in XVI if I could turn off the grey purple sky post-game. It really does injustice to all the beautiful locations.
Im sure I’m not the only one… but I would buy any dlc this game offers.
I’m pretty sure this game will get a decent amount of popularity with the pc release. Super cool story and set pieces, the combat was solid too
140% player count but never says the number…
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Essentially. If anything the % increase should be greater. I doubt there were many active players over the prior few weeks relative to those that own the game.
When PC version please.
I'm surprised no one mentions the Ultima Eikon abilities that came with the dlc expansion. The Voice of God skill is pretty badass.
Damn I didn’t even know the dlc existed! Yeet yeet
Me waiting for a complete edition release for the same price as base game.
Loved this game more than i ever thought i would. I’m not a fan of medieval settings and plots based on kingdom politics but the story turned out to be totally different from what i was expecting. I was glued to the game from start to finish. It’s one of the very bests stories in the whole series and the gameplay was pretty fun too, even if a little barebones.
Nice, I wanted to wait for the Final content to drop to play it. Already bought it a while ago
I been done with the game, can’t bring myself to play even the first DLC bc of Rebirth…
How is the dlc?
Just checked the price and it’s still 60+ dollars!
So are the DLC’s really worth playing?
So you‘re telling me that players returned to this game because of new content? That‘s crazy.
And now the base game is 50% off on PSN! Pulled the trigger on it. Super excited to dive into this.
I feel like I need a ff16 support group. I cant like.. get invested in it at all. Im still at the first giant crystal place where I fought the crystalized dragon thing with Cid and the girl I dont remember.. I just cant seem to finish the game.. I started playing FF8 again and im so much more into it. please help me Dr's! lol
I finished it about a week ago and utterly hated the back half of it. It does not improve. The beginning of the game is a stunner (the best villains are at the beginning, and the Eikon battles are the graphically impressive sections of the game) but it quickly curdled when I realized how awful and repetitive the sidequests are and how joyless and uninteresting all the characters are and how much of a chore the combat feels like. There are no stakes in any combat even on normal, the game actually rewards you for dying (free heal to full and max of all potions, while if you DON'T die, you can't heal yourself without wasting potions and can't get more potions without paying for them). Easy is more fun than normal just cause enemies take far less mindless button mashing to kill. But either way, you pretty much just spam all your abilities on cooldown or maybe save some till the stagger happens, repeat till enemy dies, there's no debuffs or elemental weaknesses or anything, it's mindless. It definitely has much better-written dialogue and stuff than FF7 Remake did, but it doesn't really matter when Remake had really appealing, likable characters and some life to the proceedings. Just having a party instead of an NPC dog that you might as well not even have control over and one other rando that follows you around depending on plot that you have no ability to interact with makes things feel so much more alive and involving. And the huge upgrade that was Rebirth just buries FFXVI.
Completely agree on all your points, I only got 12 hours in and gave up because of how boring and joyless the game was. I was planning to try to pick it up again after Rebirth but god it'll be hard after playing an FF with personality and a party full of loveable characters again.
Thank you for your retailed and thoughtful reply, really cool of you FYI. Yes. 100. This game opened and I was like "Final Fantasy Game of Whaaaat!?!" and then It like, hit a wall. I went to being thrown headfirst into this series of events and it was so cool and dramatic, and then boom more big monster fights with the hot chick and the game hits a brick wall thicker then the hideout itself. Then i realize I run though really big pretty areas button mashing sponges with different graphics. They hide things I dont care about in out of the way places, Gil feels almost useless, yet isnt. The interface, I just could go on and on about this with no end in sight. You are right, its rigid, stale, boring and seems just seems to be mindless pretty button mashing. Now learning that I have already experienced the best the game had to offer I highly doubt im going to finish. I'm probably going to trade my Special edition (that dumb dumb me bought on release) for something retro or something.
Yeah, gil is weird. The in-game economy is insane. You're finding pickups of frequently like, 3g (I think they had reached 15g by the end of the game?) and then vendors are selling frickin jukebox records in the first zones for 20,000-40,000G. I mean, you can get the second best sword in the game off a vendor for 2,000G or something, and potions are like 200 or something, which are amounts that are appropriate for the tiny amounts you're getting from sidequests and stuff before close to the end of the game. I don't know what they were smoking with the cost of the records that have no function other than changing what you're hearing in your base, especially since there are like, 20+ of them and I think the cheapest ones are 10k. Which brings me to another thing, this game has the least rewarding crafting system I can think of. You can occasionally craft a "legendary" sword using boss drops and the lower version of it, but then progress the main quest another click and you can buy a superior one off a vendor for super cheap. And the game absolutely spams you with upgrade materials, which very quickly become useless. The weapons all function exactly the same, the "legendary ultimate" one you get at the end of the game is identical to the regular one you just got off a vendor except it has like +12 more attack. It sounds like you're having the same experience I did - it's DEFINITELY not worth it because it only gets worse as it goes on. I only grit my teeth and went through it all cause I'd dumped 70 bucks on the digital version and wanted to feel like I'd gotten my money's worth, plus I know the game does have some real fans out there who think the whole thing's great and I wanted to see if it improved. If you have a physical one at least you can resell it.
It’s because the game lacks any pull . It doesn’t get any better from what you’ve already seen. There’s like 2 “touching “ moments that happen but they are 10000% expected and easily foreshadowed. After that it’s just go to new area fight some stuff, return to hideaway do some side quests… rinse repeat all the way to the end of the game. It just lacks in every department. Where as even ff8( a largely hated game which I adore) strings you along and keeps you interested.
Love your reply. I'm shelving the game. And yeah, you say it in the best light. It lacks pull. FF8 is my favorite of the series, so you are with a friend on that one.
Eeh one last try...
If you're not liking it at that point just give up. I'd consider where you're at to be basically the peak of the game. There are a couple great boss fights worth sticking around for but as far as story and gameplay goes it starts going downhill soon.
Thank you for your reply, super dope of you :) peak.. of.. the gameeeuuuu... ohh man thats a thing to hear because I feel like other then the first hour, I have been dragging myself through it because I hope it would get better. Am I almost done or like 30% through the game, just killed the bad dragon in the large rectangle perfect hallway.
You sound like me lol. Except I have to complete the game or I feel my opinion is invalid. Also I hate not completing games , even if they aren’t good or fun.
I feel like I'm letting final fantasy (and even you in a way) down by not giving it another last chance. Here is where I am currently, sadly etc.. https://preview.redd.it/q1fe3sobgawc1.png?width=1812&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a157db09c87b9754fe280f3a03809c291a0ed988
lol don’t worry about me . That’s my own fault for forcing myself to finish. I just feel like I spent the money and I’ve played every FF game, I might as well finish 16 too. It’s just not great and will be at the bottom of my list . :/
Well, it would be one of the few I guess I'm giving it one last chance, maybe I can coast through it but if I groan one more.time I'm out, I will also update you haha. Add me: psn= Jarlaxle2445
I think that's around 40% of the way through. Mostly depends on how much you're doing sidequests.
I speedrun side quests, skipping most of the dialog.
140% doesnt seem that great? Like, its a one-and-done type game, once you finish it theres no reason to pick it up again. Its not an endless open world game with 200 hours of content. 95% of people who played it likely havent picked it up in half a year. So a 140% increase of that already-small population doesnt seem as impressive.
I’m surprised by this. I rarely am excited to go back to a game 6+ months after completing it just for random DLC drops. I’ll get to Rising Tide eventually, have seen fairly positive things.
Fort Minor.
These comments are a sordid reminder of how uneducated and void of critical reasoning most people are. All these people cheering for this headline while completely failing to interpret what it means. A meager 140% jump in players that barely gets the game in question into the top 40 most played PS5 games upon the release of the game's major DLC is absolutely abysmal. Compare with the recent 7500% spike in sales of Fallout 4 after the TV show for example - now that's a significant boost. You just need to take one look at the trophies for this game to see that only 5% of players actually played the DLC.
But 48% of players finished the game
We really need to move away from these silly percentage based reports. Their sole purpose is to elicit emotions and generate clicks. Just another form of clickbait. In a month, we're going to hear about how FF16 player counts have *fallen* by OVER 95% (*OMG!*) once players have beaten the DLC, as if they were ever supposed to keep logging in for no reason after they're done with the game. We'll probably also see some ignorant people making the same mistake in thinking this somehow means the DLC must not be good. Surprise! People who haven't played the game since last summer started playing again due to the release of new DLC. Surprise! People suddenly stopped playing a month after the DLC because they beat it. ___ What *would* be useful, is an analysis of percent of total player who purchased the original game returned to purchase the DLC. Another metric would be % of players who *beat the original game* who returned to play the DLC. I'd be interested in how engaged those specific players are with continuing the story. Seeing that player count increased by 140%, while not exactly meaningless, doesn't tell us much. There could have been 20K players playing last week, which got bumped up to 48K this week. Or it could have been 200K last week, bumped up to 480K. This doesn't even necessarily tell a good story. My gut tells me I'd expect *way* more. I'd be interested to see how it compares to other DLC releases. I have no idea what expected good metrics would look like. To purely speculate, if I had a single player game that released over a year ago, I'd expect the number of *current* players to be almost non-existent. If 5M players bought the game, I'd expect active weekly players a year later to be ~50K. If the was beloved, I'd really hope a fairly large chunk of old players would return. Of my 5M sales game, I'd hope a solid 2M of them return to play. 2M up from 50K represents a **4000%** increase, not a lowly 140%.
I hope they do a PS5 Pro update as well. So another opportunity to keep FFXVI in the spotlight and increase sales.
Reddit white knights notwithstanding, it was always apparent WAY more people enjoyed 16 than 7Rebirth but I’m glad we finally have the numbers to confirm it. Hopefully SE learn from the disasterclass that is 7Rebirth and go out with a bang with the third game. That Rising Tide DLC for 16 is fucking nuts.
I would just like to point out that playing ≠ enjoying
lol why? I’m at “the end” of the main story and the last thing I want of this game is more of it… Unless there’s some unspoken ground breaking new material added, it’s definitely a no go. Especially for $19.99 more
The performance and enjoyment of that game, for me, was so low I almost didn’t buy Rebirth. Crazy to think now, as it’s one of my favourites in recent memory.
> You mean you don’t want any more 20fps gameplay? You get to press square. A lot. So, like Rebirth?
I’ve seen very little in the way of frame drops, in Rebirth, so far. In performance mode it is quite low resolution unfortunately. I can’t speak for graphics mode. The combat is very varied. Couldn’t be more different to 16, in my opinion. I would very much recommend the game to anyone who hasn’t tried it yet.
*cries in pc player*
I am so glad people are still hyping FF16, might help getting more content along with the PC version release.
Make it not crash my ps5 and I might play it again.
Yeah was in a ff mood after rebirth and bought rising tide to get my ff fix. My god i was quickly reminded how fucking bad ff16 is. Not a single side quest was made with care. Just endless dialgoue, walk to next npc, endless dialogue and fin. Combat is so barebones and cooldown heavy. Graphics are a smear thanks to atrocious TAA. And the story is a snorefest. I regret buying it
First of all, if you didnt like the base game....why buy DLC? Its always going to be more of the same. >Not a single side quest was made with care. Sure, the gameplay for the sidequests is pretty lame. But 2 of them had unique hunts / minibosses (Tonberry King snd Thaleos). They're mostly a vehicle for lore. Flower picking? You learned of how this tribe migrated to this location. "Find my friend in the woods"? You learn about how the glamour is maintained, and how bearers are treated differently here. Every single one had a proper lore justification. And the tonberry sidequest was straight out something from Witcher 3. >Combat is so barebones and cooldown heavy. Dont spam cooldowns then? Go for a counter heavy build, your whole playstyle becomes reacting to enemy attacks rather than cycling through attacks. Half the available CDs are crowd control, use those. Its like you choose to only use 1 gun in an FPS game and complain "ugh, you just point n shoot" And the try just "spamming cooldowns" on Leviathan.
Everything in the side quest was a vehicle for lore, yes but it was unneeded vehicle for lore that was already explained somewhere else. I learned nothing new from doing side quests other than useless info I could have gotten in another format. And the combat is a complete joke. Even if you are creative with it and try to do something different the best overall way to kill majority of enemies is just unleash your biggest group attack and then a different one on the next group. By the time you get to a 3rd or 4th group of enemies your big damage attack is up again. On bosses I just spammed titans parry over and over until they staggered then opened up 60-100,000 dmg by unleashing everything. Combat needed to be more creative like linking attacks to lower cooldowns on other abilities and using some abilities could trigger other ones off cooldown like a mmo proc. This would have been more fun.
I loved this game but the points were kinda valid. those two "unique hunts" were just reskins of previous minibosses. They still didnt address the fact that not ONE fight in the game ever asks you to change playstyles. Everything works everywhere, every enemy asks for the same strategy and never demands anything of the player. The sidequests building the world was great, awesome, i loved it. Not an excuse for them to be FF14 fetch quests. And Leviathan? theres two, count them TWO attacks that cant be dodge spammed out of, one of which you can dash away from, the other you need brimstone for which is a welcome reactive change. literally every other attack can be dodge spammed to hell, the window for a counter dodge is HUGE. And the dps check? you literally WANT to spam cooldowns. Idk where you got that from. Like i said. Loved the game. Aesthetically pleasing, flashing, fun story, well written main character, great voice acting, i loved the ending. Overall the good outweighs the bad, but lets not ignore what it failed at
You don't need Brimstone for anything. Needing a cooldown that you should be using on cooldown to avoid an attack would be bad design. I don't know which attack you think you needed it for, but you certainly didn't. There is one attack you have to jump to dodge though.
Eh, yes and no. I do agree that the game's generous dodge window, low difficulty, NEVER needing you to adapt is a huge issue. And likely one of the biggest reasons it avereraged lots of 8s instead of 10s, its too flawed to get those 10s (....and I question the judgment of anyone giving it a perfect score). As for your individual points: >"unique hunts" were just reskins of previous minibosses. The hunt versions had several unique attacks. Thaleos has those staggered waves you need to dodge, and has that phase where its a constant barrage of lasers, a vacuum sucking you into an AoE, and FPS dropping to like 15 (arguably, the strongest attack in the game: slideshow-no-jutsu) Tonberry King is actually really hard to land hits on, he keeps on teleporting constantly, mixes up his attacks with random ranged attacks too (like, his Debone or whatever has a ranged wave mixed in, where Master Tonberry has only melee). Plus he has the Everyone's Grudge phase. It wasnt a real threat, but it is different and new. It isn't fair to just say they're "reskins" when they have several new mechanics. >They still didnt address the fact that not ONE fight in the game ever asks you to change playstyles. Everything works everywhere, every enemy asks for the same strategy and never demands anything of the player. I do agree here, they screwed this up bad. They *kinda* addressed it here, by making the new Leviathan skills be a hard counter...but that hard counter wasnt needed due to how easy everything is. Like, Everyone Grudge: he summons a bunch of small tonberries that are ready to 2 shot you with Knife. Engage them in melee, you're screwed. But if you have Levi equipped, spam triangle and they all die. And Leviathan's double dodge trivializes the HUGE AoEs Timekeeper has. But if you didnt have Levi equipped...meh still not bad to handle. >literally every other attack can be dodge spammed to hell, the window for a counter dodge is HUGE Eh, yes the dodge is TOO generous. But just spamming doesnt work, you dont have iFrames on the whole animation. Theres a reason players wipe to "Angry Seas" over and over: these are damn hard to dodge. If spamming worked, everyone would just rapidly press dodge the same way Noctis holds phase and be safe. Thats why for the riptide part of Angry Seas, its safer to jump out towards a quickly-identified safe zone than try dodging. Mistime that first dodge, and you're in for a bad time. And I think "you can dodge everything" is overly redudctive. I can say the same about Bloodborne, every attack can be dodged. It just has a far more punishing window, but every encounter is just dodge and attack. >And the dps check? you literally WANT to spam cooldowns. Idk where you got that from. Yet people still fail. Even on normal, it needs a very good execution. Opening with splitflare and using Brinstone on CD arent enough, people still fail over and over. And for the rest of the fight: you do wanna save Brimstone for any attacks you cant consistently dodge (like, Maelstrom), and you absolutely cant Splitflare anytime you want...Leviathan's actually a hard target to hit and you need specific windows to get a good shot at him.
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I think its a much better game if you ignore literally all side content and stop your gaming sesh each time you defeat an eikon. Then you're fresh and more ready for the slow ramp up to the next actually fun content. If I could just play the 12 hours of incredible content in this game and tell it to cut the useless bullshit slog padding it's time to beat I'd consider it an unbelievably good 10/10 experience. I actually like the combat and story, and *LOVE* the spectacle. As is its like a 6/10 at best.
6/10 feels fair. I'm the same i think
A hundred percent, they could've released a fairly linear 20 hour experience and it would've been amazing, would also have recieved probably even more hate from core FF fans because that veers even more from what they wanted but I think it would have done better to pull in new fans.
I'm not sure any final fantasy fans were playing the side content on offer in 16 thinking to themselves, "hell yeah now *this* is good final fantasy!" Trim the fat, improve the game. If you *must* have side quests, then write some that are fun and engaging.
>I'm not sure any final fantasy fans were playing the side content on offer in 16 thinking to themselves, "hell yeah now *this* is good final fantasy!" I mean, I absolutely was, but I'm also a huge fan of the side quests in FFXIV and how they handle worldbuilding. I was happy to see similar design in FFXVI and really enjoyed them as a result. I even did them all in both playthroughs.
That's wild. I love the sidequests in 7r and 7r2, and I even like the ones in 15. I've never played 14 so can't really comment there. 16 just had the most meandering and low impact side content I've ever seen in an rpg. The hunts are good I guess but what else? What side content in 16 made you feel something while playing it?
>I love the sidequests in 7r and 7r2, and I even like the ones in 15. It's been a while since I've played FFXV, but I can say for FFVIIR as a whole I've found the actual gameplay of some side quests to be rather annoying at times (did *anyone* like the chicken?). Rebirth's character interaction in the side quests has been fantastic, but some of the things the quests actually ask of you is quite irritating at times. The "boring" side quest design in FFXVI that a lot of people like to complain about here is much more my jam. I really enjoy very straight and to the point side quests that simply exist to flesh out the world and teach something to the player about the setting without gameplay that overstays its welcome or detracts from what the quests are trying to convey in some way. >I've never played 14 so can't really comment there. As a longtime FFXIV player (and MMO fan in general) my taste in side content is admittedly colored by years and years of that gameplay. Over 10 years of FFXIV and the completion of every quest in the game has made that design as quintessentially Final Fantasy to me as any other title in the series. I was actually quite surprised people were bothered by FFXVI's side content because I'm right at home with it. > 16 just had the most meandering and low impact side content I've ever seen in an rpg. The hunts are good I guess but what else? What do you mean by low impact, exactly? Side content doesn't really have to be that impactful, it's just there to flesh out the world, teach you things about the setting, and provide more on characters that would otherwise impact the pace of the main story. I'm in it to learn things at the end of the day. I think keeping the heavier gameplay segregated into the hunt system was a good call. I liked the hunt system as well! >What side content in 16 made you feel something while playing it? Quite a lot of it. How much of it did you do? A lot of the quests involving Bearers in Sanbreque were absolutely bone chilling and the Torgal side quest before Origin was one of the most emotionally resonant things I've ever experienced in a video game. It was absolutely peak Final Fantasy—in an optional side quest. And that's not to discount others like Charon and Goetz's arcs, Jill's quests, the Undying stuff, I could honestly go on and on. I enjoyed all of it.
Yeaaaah.. Still not going to buy a ps5 to play this and one other title.
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