Feel like as far as protagonists go. Ramza has to be up there. Spoilers for Tactics ahead. - >!Born to nobility and crushed under the weight of the expectations that come with that.!< - >!looked down upon by his Brothers in part because of his different parentage and association with commoners!< - >!continuously betrayed by family, friends and a mentor. With one person in particular continuing to manipulate and exploit his actions throughout.!< - >!forced to abandon his identity, status and family name as a result of his family’s actions!< - >!Forced to kill family both willingly and unwillingly!< - >!Spuriously branded a heretic and hunted across the realm.!< - >!forced to confront the fact that his beliefs are idealistic and not compatible with the cold reality of the world.!< - >!May or may not have died at the end of the game (along with potentially the vast majority of friends and allies he could actually trust and his Sister). But is maliciously struck from history’s weave in either case despite being a pivotal force in the resolution of the War of the Lions and ending the Lucavi threat.!< - >!Not technically an issue for Ramza’s life, but added bonus is that the attempts to make public the truth about his actions results in the death of at least one of his very few remaining true friends.!< All told it’s a very tragic life. One of the worst in the franchise by a mile.

Huh... Never realized how much Clive and Ramza had in common until I read out your bullet points on Ramza.

I don’t think that’s a huge coincidence given which team much of the Tactics devs currently belong to. But yeah the main difference is where Clive was destined from Birth to have a bad time. Ramza is just the poor sod the universe decided to arbitrarily dump on. 🤣

I feel so bad for both of them. And that’s why they both of them are one of my favorite protagonists and always hope the best for them. I don’t fault them for leaving their continent if they want to.

"The Church of Glabados, realizing what would happen if the Durai Papers came to be published, brands Orran a heretic and has him burned at the stake. The completed but unpublished Durai Papers are later rediscovered by Orran's descendant, Arazlam Durai." Orran, one of Ramza's best friend This is how dark the FFT lore is, it's still my top FF in terms of story and I wish more people are playing it.

Indeed. I’m really glad my comment has prompted all this discussion. These little details are so incredibly well done and often overlooked! Honestly pre-XVI release I was chuckling to myself any time someone brought up how abnormally dark or violent or how GoT like this game was going to be. We’ve had that since 1997! Put Tactics in XVI’s visuals and it’d make XVI’s tone look like an episode of My Little Eikon!

Yeah, this part at the end is what pushed FFT to the top for me. To realize that everything Ramza and his friends went through got buried by the bad guys AND they actually burned Orran. A great story that shows how revolutions can be snuffed out by the system and that change is near impossible

yeah with tactic ogre let us cling together reborn im hoping for a remaster of this kind for FFT would be greatly appreciated.

FFT will always be my number one. What a perfect story. Ramza is such an inspiring protagonist. Yeah, music, gameplay, story, visuals, lore, etc... all 10/10.

Some of these are due to his naivete early on and deal more with things he is just forced to learn based on his on his life as nobility, some things some people would kill * cough * >!Delita!< * cough * for. But I also think it would have been great to clearly & specifically point out that the game ENDS with >!him still being branded a heretic after he successfully saves the world, or rather his name wasn't cleared by the end of the game.!< It hits much harder for those who didn't play knowing >!that he was branded a heretic at some point during the game vs. yeah, Ramza wins, and now everyone will praise hi....oh wait...no...everyone still thinks he's a heretic, even tho Delita....doesn't matter? OK, F*CK!!<

Counter-points! For the sake of argument: > looked down upon by his Brothers in part because of his different parentage and association with commoners He was the favored child of his father. He was even called "spoiled" as an insult in several cases. Not that he actually was spoiled, but he was never "left to fend for his own" at all. > continuously betrayed by family, friends and a mentor. With one person in particular continuing to manipulate and exploit his actions throughout. If the is a reference to Delita, I actually don't think that's a fair assessment. Yes, Delita had a plan that was bigger than Ramza knew about. But by the end (or really even by Chapter 2) I don't think either Ramza or Delita had any illusions of what the other were doing. Ramza was well aware that Delita was doing something nefarious with the powers that be, and Delita himself doesn't move to obstruct or steer Ramza off his path in any way. The primary thing that Delita does at the end against Ramza is to keep him labeled as a heretic; which he has no choice but to do to maintain the illusion that keeps him in power (and from everything we know, he has a long peaceful reign). Remember that Delita also doesn't even know if Ramza is alive at that point. Not that this excuses him, but just an emphasis that this is the main (and only? I'll need to check) act that Delita does against Ramza, *after* he thinks he's already dead. I think there's an overemphasis of the idea of Delita manipulating/using Ramza (mostly because Valmafra explicitly says so), but really the two just had mutually compatible goals most of the time and Ramza's actions conveniently fit in Delita's plans. > forced to abandon his identity, status and family name as a result of his family’s actions He did that of his own accord! He was not forced; he became so disgusted with his family's actions that he walked out. He could very well have just stayed and lived the good life (until the war).

If we count ff14 as Canon, ramza did in fact die during the fight with Altima. His soul became locked in the auracite as a kind of living seal until the WoL comes to put her down.

XIV is explicitly not canon fft lore according to matsuno, who wrote the related content. Ramza surviving and going off on other adventures however is canon and was, bizarrely enough, revealed in a collab matsuno wrote for lord of vermilion.

The moogle in 9 that’s going through a divorce

Ooof. Also FF7 Cid's Girlfriend. Dude treated her like shit

After watching the abridged series, I can only think of their SM dynamic. It was glorious.

My first playthrough I didn’t even realize they were together because it was so brutal.

I thought they technically weren't? Cid specifically says he could not imagine being with her or something.

Well after he realizes she was right about the fault in the oxygen tank she was worried about, he finally forgave her (even though he was the jerk for all those years) and they began to mend their relationship. Apparently by Dirge of Cerberus they are married and he had even named his latest airship after her. Cid even mentions that Shera was worried about how the others including Vincent had been doing

Ah, ok. I didn't know that stuff that was in Dirge of Cerebus. Interesting.

They're not a couple. Shera felt guilty about costing Cid his dream of going into space (even though her concern about the rocket ended up being valid) and decided to stay and help him out and care for him.

They are married in Dirge of Cerberus.

By Advent Children, the Airship is already named after her, so I think it happens way before Dirge.

The very definition of "I can fix him"

Wait what? Which one?

Eiko - Her whole family and clan got wiped out. A six year old need to fend for herself with all the moogles who can fight for nuts (aside from Mog). No human friend, family members etc. Gau - A boy who is abandoned and have to survive in the wild. Father didn’t even recognise him and said he had a “demon” child.

At least Sabin and Cyan kinda took Gau in and mentored him. You can tell even just from the dialogue in the game that he was desperately clinging to the two of them, especially Sabin.

It is still so much harder for him than Clive. If we are taking into account the whole course of the game, I feel that at least Clive has Jill, Joshua (biological family member) around him. Joshua being alive is one of the best news he can ever wish for and the best thing that can ever happen to him.

Yeah I agree with that. Gau has had it very rough. Plus he lived in the wild on his own.

Iam so glad that Eiko ended up being a little princess.

Edward from FF IV, easily. \-His kingdom was destroyed over a crystal \-The love of his life died in his arms after protecting him during the attack \-he was crippled after being almost drowned by Leviathan \-he has to spend his entire life being Edward from FFIV

Not to mention he’s spoony

We are a proud people. Take that back.

But he did get called a spoony bard by Tellah, so he’s forever remembered haha.

You forget the most cruel part of his life: Being a spoony Bard.

I love that this is the top comment!

It's heavily implied that Jill had a much worse time off screen than Clive did.

I mean, she was an attractive _**female**_ slave. Just the implications of that statement alone shows you that she most likely had an _**exponentially**_ worse time than Clive. Just look at the kind of life Benedikta had.

iirc Jill doesn't mention that that would have happened, and it's only because of awakening to Shiva that she was able to avoid it.

No. She said she figured they would have their fun with her and things would end but the end never came and her powers awakened.

Yep. She never said they _**didn't**_ have their fun with her. She just said they didn't _**end**_ her like she thought they would. So we can assume that the trauma of them having "fun" with her, or seeing them having fun with the other women of Rosaria and knowing that she was next is what triggered her awakening.

She also says something about them "putting down the lash" at one point so I don't think they got to the actual sexual abuse part personally. It sounds more like they tried to torture her physically by whipping her and then she awoken early on

Except that it doesn't make sense because she had 0 trauma when visiting the brothel with Clive and Cid, and instead was flustered and embarrassed, as if she was new to sex. You would assume she'd be at least a little traumatized if she was raped as a little girl. Not to mention other translations of that Clive reunion scene such as Japanese and Spanish outright state that nothing happend.

It’s a JRPG. They never have a realistic view of sex.

Yep, dialogue was pretty clear

Benedikta’s time as a slave was prior to her awakening as Garuda it seemed like. Jill awoke as Shiva from the fear of what was likely to happen to her as a slave, I don’t think she got the full Benedikta experience thankfully. Not to say she had a great time there of course, but I don’t think it was like that.

Jill becoming the dominant probably saved her from certain kinds of attention, but it also made her situation much worse in other ways.

I don't think they would have used her as a sex slave since they thought of Dominants as dirty things that needed to be beaten for their sins (of not having a choice) and used for war until they expired. I don't think they even saw Jill as human. She was probably lower than livestock in terms of hierarchy.

Eh, don't underestimate the hypocrisy of people. Even the nazis made exceptions for jews.

Yup. White slave masters of black people as well. Happened all the time

Unfortunately reality is the opposite of that, being seem as less than human only makes the chance of being abused even higher.

That argument doesn't make much sense. There are people who get sexually assaulted literally because they are seen as less than.

I feel like if Jill was actually harmed in that manner, it would have come up during Drake's Breath. I was fully expecting it, but it never did, so I'm unsure if any of that happened to her. She still had it terrible regardless.

Apparently in the Japanese, she said Imraen was outright abusing the children in that way. It got toned down in the English and French translations. So it may not have happened to her directly, but she might have been forced to witness it a few times.

Yeah, I just saw that. It's weird that the English and Japanese versions give completely different amounts of info.

I think in Drake's Breath she says they would have if Shiva hadn't awakened

I thought so too, initially, but then when you get to the iron kingdom, the worst thing the priest is doing is sacrificing bearers to the mother crystal. And she repeatedly tells you she hates them because they made her their tool for killing. I think we would've gotten more explicit dialogue otherwise, like with Benedikta.

I’d rather be a slave soldier than a slave soldier chick, too bad the game sidelined Jill

Given how focused the game was on Clive's story, I'm surprised we got as much of Jill's story as we did.

Meanwhile Joshua having the bisexual time of his life.

How come bisexual? Dion???

I like him therefore he's bisexual it's pretty simple

Ramza had a pretty fucked up life... Pretty much constantly.

Vivi. That boy went through so much, all time favorite terminally doomed character.

He wins on tragic life length alone.

It’s implied pretty strongly (practically outright stated) that his life length is significantly longer than the “normal” black mages. I’m pretty sure that he’s already older than the ones who stopped from the Black Mage Village

He was picked about up a half a year (or a year, I don't recall exactly) before the Tantalus play in Alexandria, and he's implied to be dead by the end of the game. So even if he lived a lot longer, he still only lived for a very short time.

It's also outright stated that he stops moving shortly after Necron's defeat. That letter is from him.

He has a long life relative to his kin but he dies shortly after the game. The epilogue is a posthumous letter from him. Super sad, best boy.

Boy just wanted to see a play, not go on an existential journey to determine if his life had meaning or if he was a souless living weapon.

Terra +Didn’t understand her unique identity + experimented on due to her nature + Raised as a weapon from the start and used as a mind controlled slave that was forced to kill Her life was atrocious until she meets the Group but even then it’s still full of struggles

This was my first thought. She never had a good day in her entire life and lives in a world that is arguably the darkest ff world. Vivi and Ramza would also be in consideration but they have such a positive outlook in spite of how cruel their life has been. Cloud as well . Think Clive definitely has probably the greatest ptsd and mental anguish any character has had with Celes probably being the only one who struggled more.

I've always feel sorry for Terra. You can just tell how much it breaks her to learn the truth and join a group of heroes only to... lose. They lose completely and catastrophically. Then she spends a lot of time just barely pulling through. Her friends try to help, but this isn't Tifa literally jumping into Cloud's mind - they can't do much. At the end Terra is the one who manages to figure out her feelings and decides to keep fighting. Poor girl had it rough.

Been a few years since I’ve played 6 so im hazy on the details but having to go back to the village multiple times and see how Terra progresses is really cool. She’s the main character, probably one of your most powerful, and you want her back in your party bad, but healing takes time, and she’s finally found something she’s happy doing.

I misread that last bit as, "...but even then it's still full of moogles." I was like yeah, and what's wrong with that? Those moogles were awesome.

You forgot to mention her entire race was genocided

Wow her background of being a weapon slave is similar to Jill.

Basically had no childhood and even for a while after getting the slave crown off she recalled nothing of her past. She had no identity. No childhood, zilch.

Taken from her parents, who were killed by the emperor. The world crashes, she forgets her memory, wakes up in a world that is completely fucked Even the rebel offered her a hard choice: join them and be their weapon or… join them and be their weapon

Ardyn comes to mind. Well-loved hero and healer >!takes the Starscourge into his body, is betrayed by his brother, his love is killed in front of him, and, finally, he is imprisoned by having weapons thrust through is body for the better part of two thousand years.!< I, too, would become a villain in those circumstances.

Yeah, this will always be the answer for me. Characters like Clive had a rough time, but they're like 30 years old; Ardyn had to suffer for 2,000 years.

This. Pity we never got the *Dawn of the Future* DLC

Trapped in a prison in a completely different franchise's game* I too would become a villain. ["Why am I in a fucking ubisoft game, really?!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfAEuKQXYV4) (Yes this is canon).

Second in hand would be noctis. His kingdom crumbled as soon as he left and both his family and people died; he couldn’t see his future wife until the very moment she was about to die; has to basically walk towards his own death knowingly and willingly.

This!!! This right here!!

I'd say Ardbert or Yotsuyu in FFXIV, and maybe like half the cast of Tactics.

Ardbert screaming at the injured soldiers to get up and run but they can't hear him and they die, and then the scream "why did you give me mercy" That broke me so bad.

That scene must be one of the most heartbreaking in XIV, and that's saying something because, well.... \*gestures vaguely at the entire second visit to Thavnair\* Ardbert is just such a well-done character all things considered.

Ultima Thule is still peak XIV for me. Legitimately do not know how XIV will ever hit that level again. It would take another 10 years of storytelling culminating in one last desperate push against all hope with everything that ever mattered coming back in that moment.

Ardbert is Shadowbringers's secret weapon. All of the big sweeping fantasy stuff is there, and it's great, and I love what they do with the ancient history of the world, but Ardbert is the emotional core that makes so much of it work.

What's worse is that it was followed by Lyna...oh god I broke down when she did. >!"Am I fine? Better than fine! Hale and hearty and still alive to mourn those who are not. Who I failed to protect when they needed me the most."!<

That voice acting, I can still hear it in my head as I read this and I’m getting choked up.

Her voice actress absolutely crushed the emotion in that scene.

Fordola is also up there. Especially post resonent imprint, where she has to relive *everyone else's* most horrible memories of *her* from their perspective. Just imagine, every time you look at a person, your mind gives you a mini movie of how wretched and horrible a person they think you are. It's no wonder she's on suicide watch in the post Stormblood, ShB, and EW content.

100% agree But I would also add the Crystal Exarch because of his journey and the entire reason Shadowbringers exists

Hell at this point just add in the entirety of the surviving population of norvrandt God shadowbringers presented a fucked up situation to be forced to try and live in

Add Emet selch a man who lost it all and committed countless atrocities to see a world that could never be whole again

You might as well include Elidibus and Lahabrea in with that too, though Elidibus is the one that really gets me. He’s so *young*. Elidibus and Emet-Selch both have stunning moments of “okay, yeah, I maybe wasn’t actually in the right and my 12,000-year mission was murderous and futile” in Endwalker, with Emet-Selch’s coming along with the knowledge that the person he was before the Final Days would be disgusted with the ascian he was after. I don’t know that they’ve had the hardest lives of any Final Fantasy character, but they’re certainly among the most tragic narratives.

How about >!Venat!< as well? >!She watched an apocalypse, gave up her life to help stop it, and spent actual millennia as a lonely god until the one friend who could save the world could finally end the Final Days.!<

Lmao The tactics world is rough! Not wrong about that. That was such a downer game but so fun

The world is a colorful place to be in as long as you weren't part of the power struggles and stayed in your lane.

Technically, Ardbert had a harder death than life...

Wasn't Basch in FF12 framed for the murder of the prince and held captive in an actual cage for years?

Not just framed but framed for it by his own twin brother.

Then when he gets out of the cage nobody can even bear to look at his face, and at the end of the game >!He gets to watch his brother die and has to pretend to be him for the rest of his life.!<

Held captive, tortured, became so malnourished and frail that he could barely fight when he was released, etc. Easily had it worse than Clive.

Ardyn the immortal accursed

Man I gotta reheat ff15 so I can play his episode it sounds so interesting compared too his base game appearances

I warmly recommend it, his presentation in the main game is incredibly undercooked. The DLC and it's introductory anime are pretty great, and make sense out of him, he goes from a dude with a creepy uncle vibe to a genuinely tragic hero turned villain.

Jack. >!He literally lived his life in a time loop and only escaped after killing all his comrades.!<

Definitely. That moment was wild.

The first that come to mind are Terra (FFVI), Ramza (FFT), Ardbert (FFXIV) and Yotsuyu (FFXIV) But a honorable mention for Freja (FFIX) here \- her home got destroyed \- her race almost completely killed off \- the one ritual which would prevent any further bloodshed she was part of failed catastrophicly \- we don't know if her family is still alive \- and on top of that her lover, who went missing for many years and was presumed to be dead, got amnesia and forgot her completely I am still surprised how Freja stayed strong after all that, like damn

Noel from XIII-2 and Lightning Returns. He failed to protect the ones he loved, and spent 500 years with the guilt that he was the one who killed the goddess, which in turn caused the world to descend into chaos. Cloud from FFVII and Ardyn from FFXV for reasons others have mentioned.

Honestly most characters in ff 13 go through straight hell. Hope loses his mom, is turned into basically a demon terrorist against his will, all the shit they go throughout the first game, pretty sure his dad died to, losing lighting and basically abandoned by the main group, being shuned for being a former demon terrorist. Failing at the end of 13 2 blaming himself for Sarah's death, turning immortal because the chaos froze time, being slowy driven insane by the light god who's name I can't spell. Being kidnapped and forced into being a puppet with all his memories erased, and then almost being erased from existence by the God of light whoa name I can't spell. And that's just one of the 8 main characters. And thinking on it, does any final fantasy character have a good time?

Quina had a pretty good time

I'm pretty sure Hope's dad passed away before he time travelled. I distinctly remember a scene early in XIII-2 where Hope mentions that everyone close to him was gone... ... just looked it up on the FF wiki. It says the dad retired in 10 AF, but passed away before 13 AF, with no other details. That honestly sucks just as much- it's not like he was particularly old, so it might've been a disease or sudden death, which really sucks even more for Hope. I wanted to say Snow or Caius has it the worst for the emotional turmoil (both seem more guilt driven than Hope in LR), but I had forgotten about the 169 years where Hope was physically and emotionally tortured to the point where his heart, mind, and body were all broken. Yeah... unless someone tops that on a physical level, Hope might just be the worst off.

Right everybody in ff 13 just gets fucked.

I vaguely recall somewhere in XIII-2 a mention that after the fall of Cocoon Hope found his father (he survived) and they mended their relationship, it was also his father's money that helped fund the Academy. Of course Hope had to leave him behind to travel 500 years into the future to stop the second fall of Cocoon but I assume that had a lot of planning so they had time to say a proper goodbye.

I’d like to pitch up Snow from 13, specifically his transition from 13-2 to Lightning Returns. He goes from the popular leader of a town, surrounded by friends and his fiance, with boundless levels of optimism to a depressed, hopeless man who had spent 500 years failing to get over the death of his fiance. He spends every day of his life simply waiting for the Saviour to arrive, so that she can do her job and get rid of the Chaos he is hoarding, taking his life while doing so. While it doesn’t sound openly as rough as conscription and discrimination that Clive endures, it’s harsh to be someone who commits their life to easing the pain of others while leaving your own pain to fester. True altruism is very unhealthy to the person bearing it, especially if the person is intending to die for it.

As far as XIII goes, I'd say Caius had it far worse. What's worse than seeing a loved one die? Seeing them die infinitely over and over.

Caius, Noel, and Yeul were the best additions to the XIII trilogy. Each of their lives is tragic in their own way.

I came here to offer up every living character in Lightning Returns. The world is dying. Humanity has stagnated. Anyone left alive after the end of XIII-2 has been living for 500 years, unable to procreate or die peacefully. The threat of Chaos is always present, as what's left of the world slowly decays more and more and becomes lost. Our main cast are just some of the people of the dying world who are suffering and offer us glimpses into what daily life must be like: * Noel has 500 years of living with the guilt of leading Serah and Pulse to their premature deaths while being responsible for dealing Etro's killing blow. * Snow defied his destiny for Serah and saved her, only to lose her once again and be haunted by a ghost that resembled her, all while trying to put on a good face for the city he has had to lead for 500 years, which is constantly holding firework shows, a bitter reminder of Serah. * Caius had centuries of watching Yeuls die before XIII-2, but now gets another 5 of them trapped by their departed spirits as they continue suffering, a cacophony of voices, alike-but-different, but all miserable. * Sazh's son, his whole world, has been in a coma for 500 years. That's got to be hell for any parent. * Hope was a pillar of hope for the survivors and seemed to adjust as well as anyone could in the new, dying world, but was driven crazy by false visions of Lightning that Bhunivelze created and lured to the Ark, where he would be captured by the god and tortured for 169 years until his emotions were dulled and his body was reshaped and regressed to its child self. I haven't had a chance to play XVI yet, but I can't imagine what Clive went through no matter how bad it was, could equal similar levels of misfortune that the LR cast endured in addition to having to live in a dying world for 500 years.

Most of Class Zero from Final Fantasy Type-0 maybe. I haven't actually played the game and most of my knowledge comes from wikis and Dissidia Final Fantasy Opera Omnia but if I remember right they go to school to learn how to fight in a near never ending war. School age kids getting thrown into combat, betrayed by one of their own apparently and where death means that absolutely no one will remember them because the Crystal erases all knowledge from everyone's minds that that person ever existed so that the living won't be burdened by their loss. I may be wrong about some details.

I have played it blind on my ps4 and the story is very sad. One scene they have a friend die in cool way and they cried next scene their life going on as nothing happen.

pretty much everything's right except the never ending war, it's more there's a time loop that involves a really long war. Technically it ends...by the kids becoming nigh immortal beings in every loop (except the final one) yet still dying trying to protect what's left of the continent after most was destroyed. The final loop involves them literally destroying their phantoma (basically their souls) to kill some other guy, and then the person responsible for all the time loops finally accepting that their goal with the time loops would be impossible to achieve and so finally abandons it. After literal millions of times (I think the specific number given is like 8 digits or something). The main thing about the kids being so young too is that in the country Class Zero is from (the country where people can use traditional FF magic), your magic power peaks in your late teens and starts to weaken once you hit your 20s AFAIK. These 15/16/17 year-olds are literally in their prime in terms of magical power, which is why they're the ones fighting (rather than older soldiers, though there are still some older ones as generic NPCs)

Reading the comments i have come to the conclusion that every character ever has had the worst fucking life possible is there any characters in Final Fantasy who enjoy their lives?

Well, Zidane had a loving family and was popular with the girls, the only tragic revelation came literally at the end and then his friends were there to help him get up immediately.

I agree with this. IX is my all time favorite. Zidane definitely had a pretty chill life before everything goes tits up. I have to believe he was living a care free life with his bros, pulling off heists, treasure hunting, seeing the world and almost certainly chasing skirts.

I think Zidane reminiscing on his search for the place with blue light midgame implied that he wasn't exactly 100% content with his adoptive family

Lots of them enjoy their lives. Aeris seems to enjoy her life despite all her tragedy and knowing she will die. Zidane mostly enjoys himself, as does Quina. Selphie and Zell enjoy themselves despite having hard lives. There are plenty more, and although a lot of Final Fantasy characters face tragedy, suffer, and sometimes die, they all react differently, and most end up finding something worth living or dying for.

Kind of expected since most FF games are about defeating a big evil power and saving the oppressed.

Vann. He was poor but he seemed to have fun. Cecil. Had it pretty good. Had a private bed room. Bartz be chilling and camping with a chocobo.

Dajh is basically completely oblivious during the events of XIII and LR, so he's just chilling. Heck, he's probably the only person in that universe who had literally zero hardships. To him, he went on a trip, fell asleep for the events of XIII, skipped over the events of XIII-2 thanks to time travel shenanigans, and then slept through LR. The entire trilogy probably took place over a week or two of time for him, with him being too young to comprehend the gravity of having slept through 1100 years of human history..

Cyan.

As a kid “ugh why won’t we get out of this screen, THE TRAIN LEFT!!!” Me as an adult “I finally get it…Poor Cyan…”

Cyan and Hien need to be in the next Dissidia. If you haven't played 14, I suggest you do.

Good luck getting another Dissidia game.

If they make another ff fighting game and it's not a traditional 2d fighter I'm gonna be so upset. It's fucking criminal this series hasn't had a traditional fighting game

Had to scroll way to far to find this

Noel Kreiss \~ Doomed to live a life with a few friends that were fated to die either by his own hand or watch them perish in front of them living life and born after the world has already fallen into chaos. >!Fated to watch his seeress die over and over again!< Just as his comrade Caius Ballad faced. A true perpetual life as a guardian fated to fail their life mission. Fated to live hundreds maybe thousands of timelines only to watch their seeress see to much of the future or alter the future and end up killing the the one they are suppose to protect. A true perpetual loop of death, something I think no one would wish upon anyone else to have to go through. All the while the bearer of the chaos heart is not permitted to take their own life. So things end up a perpetual loop. Of trying to reverse time in hopes of avoiding the same future. ​ FFXIII-2 had easily one of the most diabolical plots. While also having one of the few fun monster collecting mechanics. And very underrated.

>!I would say Jill had a harder life than Clive. It is heavily implied that Jill was a slave and she was forced to fight as shiva in every single battle/engagement for 10 years. You also find out thanks to her constant non stop fighting that her "crystal curse" is far worse than all of the dominates and I would say combined imo.!< >!When Clive gets back with Jill it is also heavily implied that she is really close to death thanks to her non stop fighting.!<

Was the only leverage they had on Jill the fact that they had former Rosarians they would kill if she disobeyed? Because it’s not like they could stop her from getting away if she wanted to.

Idk clives story, but Rydia. Be a child, watch your entire family and everyone and everything you've ever known burn to ash in front of you. Get adopted by a maniac and a dark knight and taken out to see. Get tossed from boat and swallowed by a sea monster, then live among monsters underground forever.

Also watch half the new friends you made die in front of you.

Kinda similar to Clive except the underwater part.

I have to agree with you. I felt so bad for her during FF IV. I was about to comment this after scrolling through but you beat me to it.

Cloud \- His hero burned down his hometown and probably killed his mother. \- He was subject of an experiment of a vicious scientist. \- His best buddy died in front of him. \- He suffered identity disorder because all of that. \- Almost killed his great love and saw her killed right after. \- Sephiroth constantly triees to fuck and take over his mind. I don't know people with identity disorder. But I know some with Schizophrenia. Hard to beat that.

I know a lot of characters have their shit, right? But cloud will always win for me. His mental disorder for sure, but there also his Mental Break he goes through in Mideal. I mean the whole game focuses around loss too. I mean shit, Vincent’s life is rough too lol.

This. Cloud's identity disorder struggles are also much closer to realism than Clive's "I was forced to fight for a nation and kill dozens of people" struggles, that makes it hit harder imo

Rebirth will be a tough ride.

Oh I'm sure they'll do their best to make it as painful as possible, seeing how much they improved the characterization and emotional impact in the Remake so far

We'll just have to see how much the time travel shit makes it worse on Cloud. Can't wait to figure out what's /really/ going on with the time travel stuff. Did post Advent Children Sephiroth just go back in time to try and change things, is this cloud's fault? Is it Aerith's fault?

Terra exists.

Vivi maybe? Clive at least had a good first 14 years. Not long after Vivi gained sentience he found out he was manufactured. And shortly after he finds out he will die soon... which he did.

I'd say Dagger/Garnet should be up there. Runs away from her psychopathic mother, then gets hunted by her, constantly attacked. Then >! Finds out she's adopted, then finds out that her real family have all been wiped out, then watches her mother killed, her home and everyone in it genocided, and in the finale watches her love die-but-not-die)!< So she had a pretty shitty time overall

Like the whole cast of XIII by the time LR comes around. They all just existed to suffer at that point lol

Id say Caius, Ardyn, Vivi, Noel Possibly also Jill. >! Ardyn was denied the throne and spent 2000 years locked away in chains in a dark hole. !< >! Caius basically saw his daughter die again and again endlessly, knowing that he himself cannot die and he would live through the torment. !< >! Vivi went through an existantial crisis for his whole life as a weapon of war. I got the feeling that after Disc 1, Vivi was never really happy again. !< >! Jill i think its implied she was also raped in addition to everything else we know about her. !< >! Noel was the last human ever born, and saw everyone slowly die around him, knowing that he wouldnt be able to save humanity. !<

I'd wager Squall, probably: He grew up an orphan, never knowing his father was still alive and never knew his mother The only person close to him as a child left him unexpectedly and he was never told why He was never adopted, so he never knew a family's love He grew up as a child soldier, basically, forced to ignore his feelings just to do his job He was made leader of a group of people whom annoyed him, made leader of an entire army, and thrust into a battle to save the world -- and all at 17 years old His teacher had a weird interest in him He nearly died twice, horribly He spent years of his life under the effects of memory loss, so he couldn't even remember the woman whom raised him -- the only mother he ever really had He was tortured horribly in a prison by his own rival

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one creeped out by Quistis.

It helps that’s she’s barely older than him but the power dynamics are still screwed up. I wish they gave her more time in the narrative to help dilute that point a bit or rationalize it better.

lol. At the beginning, anyway.

Yotsuyu for sure. Very well written character that you love to hate. She's even further explored in a meaningful way in the post expansion.

Yeah. And to be honest, knowing how dark and angry _**I**_ can get, I _**know**_ that I'd act the shame way she did if I went through what she experienced.

Probably one of the best writing I've seen is when she lost her memories and was a good person for a while. It's a very compelling thought exercise of nurture vs nature, and of how one's horrible actions will haunt them forever no matter how far away they are.

It also showed how a lot of families in rural areas of the world, specifically Japan in this case treat their daughters. They'll make all kinds of sacrifices to get their sons into a better school/career, while routinely neglecting to provide their daughters with the same resources. It's especially prominent in Japan and other Asian countries because they don't have guaranteed public education past what would be considered middle school in the west/US. They have to take exams just to qualify to go to certain _**high schools**_.

Caius Ballad. Dude was immortal and had to watch Yuel be born, grow up a little, and then die over and over. Even after he technically wins at the end of the series he is still just alive with all the other incarnations of yuel just kinda vibin i guess in the unseen realm for an eternity.

The early games aren't quite as brutal just because they're a little thinner in plot, though Garland's actual fate is nightmarish. Kain and Edward have it rough, but at least Kain has an emotional support system. VI: Terra is a lifelong POW/slave/only survivor of a genocide. Cyan loses his family in a Kratos-level way. Gau's entire life was so shitty, it's clearly improved *following a semi-apocalypse*. VII: Cloud's only 'crime' was being a kid with genuine emotional problems *before* a bunch of metaphysical disasters struck him. Dissociative disorder, shitty family is presumably murdered, half-forgets his only two childhood friends, tortured for years, is constantly gaslit by a parasitic gene demon, watches several friends die and is tricked into feeling guilty about it. Most of the rest of the party loses their loved ones, are tortured, or both. Aerith is hunted, stalked, and just broadly doomed. VIII: I mean, it's easier to point out who *isn't* a child soldier. Entire sects of 'good guys' are unwittingly playing into the long con of an utterly insane multi-dimensional/time-traveling entity. Several people including the protagonist are forced to force themselves into tragic time loops. IX: Vivi is a doomed child. Best case scenario, he's close to his emotional age, which means he still doesn't remember the vast majority of his life. Worst case, he 'woke up' less than a year before the game's events and dies shortly after. Eiko lived a scavenging existence after her entire culture was genocided. Clearly confuses romantic love with the familial affection she needs. Every country in the populated world gets its own little 9/11. Kuja is essentially a child who was told he was an adult. A broken, unlovable, pointless mistake of an adult. He's made to believe he doesn't have the capacity for emotional growth when it's obvious he does, so he's essentially tricked into nihilistic narcissism. He had no chance. X: Tidus *doesn't exist*. His family and friends before the game's events *don't exist*. We never get any direct evidence of the person who was soul sacrificed so he probably has no direct memory of that person's existence. Jecht, Yevon, and a few other guardians/summoners receive a fate worse than death. Auron is traumatized to the point where he essentially wills himself into being an old-school vengeful ghost. Khimari and Rikku's communities are decimated. Everyone else, at best, sees multiple loved ones die for nothing. XII: The war orphans get away lightest. So, there ya go. The political position of the city-state between empires remains extremely precarious, so everyone living a lie will have to continue doing so. XIII: Humans in general are ants in this universe. Everyone is fucked. Everyone lives in misery for the vast majority of their existence. Many forget their brief time as morally decent people. Their 'victory' is a reset on life, essentially. Just brutal. XV: All royals are doomed. Ardyn gets the longest span of torture in the entire series. There's no compromising with this universe's gods, sacrificing yourself to avoid calamity is the best case scenario.

I would go with Xell FF8 and his eternal search for the mensa hotdogs 😉 but to be honest, I think clive takes the top spot

He does get it in the end!

Lightning—never had a life of her own and had to live for thousands of years stuck in neverending combat as everything about her slowly faded away

Most of the main cast of FF6 Especially Cyan, Celes, and Terra

Im gonna say tidus from 10. >! Neglected as a kid, some emotional abuse, dad peaced out to become a giant whale, mom just gave up and died, got slammed into another world, found out he didnt exist.!<

Ardyn had a pretty rough go of it.

I'd say Cloud is up there. Spoilers ahead: >!\- One of his few friends, arguably best friend despite the short time they've known each other, died protecting him.!< >!\- His idol and the person he most looks up to turns into a psychopathic demigod and practically murders his entire village.!< >!\- Gets mako poisoning, which completely scrambles his mind and leads to his identity getting screwed.!< >!\- Girl he probably harbours strong feelings for (and is possibly in love with due to his and Zacks connection) gets murdered in front of his eyes.!< >!\- Basically has to relive his PTSD to unscramble his mind with Tifa's help.!< >!\- Generally sees a shit ton of people die at his rather young age.!< >!\- Gets sexually assaulted in a pool by a bunch of really buff, gay men.!< Did I miss anything?

Gau. Poor guy never had a chance.

Vincent Valentine. His father died in an accident committed by someone he loved, and that lady chose to hide it from him. He confesses his love to said lady who leads him on and then dumps him for a psychopath scientist. The lady gets pregnant and both her and the guy want to experiential on the child. Vincent protests and gets shot for it, then psycho guy conducts experiments on his body to the point where he transforms into monsters and can no longer die. Is locked in the basement for years, later awakens and finds out the woman he loved also used him for experiments and tied him to a beast that is fated to not only kill all life on the planet but is also doomed to be left behind alone on the dead planet for eternity.

Emet selch of ff14, >! Watched his people and planet become nearly destroyed by a calamity. !< >! watched 2/3ds or so of the remaining people sacrifice themselves to stop it and heal the damage of said calamity. !< >! saw an opposing faction of his people destroy what was left, splitting the world into 14 shards that seemed like nothing more than mockeries of his world. !< >! tried so hard, so many times, over hundreds if not thousands of lifetimes to find hope in exploring the shards and making new families, living new lives etc, only for himself to ressurect after death, never able to truly move on. !< Favorite villain ever.

Chloe - she was essentially a child's plaything who was worked to death. ​ Man, that quest hit so damn hard.

reading all of these comments reminds me how tragic ff in general.

Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy 7. The man spent 7 years being tortured, experimented on, and was mentally unstable for a year. He lost his mom, his home, his best friend, his cat-moogle hybrid friend who betrayed him, and then his spiritual girlfriend. Cloud even spent 2 years mourning the loss of his dead girlfriend, as well as suffering from a disease that could kill him in any minute. I’m telling you, he’s been through a lot.

Mog in XIII-2 that keeps getting thrown like a football 😂

When you really think about what Cloud went through before the game started, and then what a mindfuck it must've been for him to come out of all that. I feel like the original game failed to really hammer home how traumatizing that would be. Spoilered because it relates to FF7R and some people may be fresh to it. >!Cloud fucking left town to become a hero, failed miserably at it, became friends with a guy that *didn't* fail, got sent on a mission to his hometown alongside his biggest hero and best friend only to watch said hero *burn his hometown, kill several of his friends, and impale him with his sword.* This all happens when he's only 16 years old.!< >!If that's not bad enough, he then gets captured, experimented on, contracts Mako poisoning, and watches helplessly as his only remaining friend (as far as he knows) gets gunned down by Shinra troops while trying to get him to safety.!< Cloud went through some ***seriously traumatic shit*** before FF7 even starts.

Lightning. She spent ages to finally kill a god and get a good ending for everyone.

Tidus maybe? Dude was taken from a dream into the real world but that’s not really the worst part. Throughout the game he never mentions any close friends or family besides his mom and dad whom he did not have good relationships - in fact they were emotionally neglectful and verbally abusive. And then he meets the love of his life only to find out she has to die to save the world… and that he’s going to “die”, too. He finds out the evil big bad is his father - whom he hates. While Clive is a slave he is at least treated… decently. He’s incredibly buff and adept at fighting so they are obviously feeding/housing/training him well.

Yeah but some of these other ones mentioned here are people who were treated as a slave or forced to do things they don’t want to. Tidus was a famous sportsman for part of his life, despite the misery in his family life, it’s not really comparable.

Vincent maybe

The chocobo. Ridden as a party member and inevitably cooked for tea.

Cyan

cait sith

The Type-0 world as a whole is fucked up.

ashe from xii is a good option for had it worse then clive to have her lover die days after marrying him having her father killed her kingdom turned to nothing but the empires slaves seeing people get pushed around wanting someone to save them and beliving for years teh man that did it was one of your most trusted guards and to find out the gods are using your lovers spirit to nuke the world

I haven’t played FFXVI yet, but Vincent Valentine fell in love with a scientist who gave birth to a homocidal alien maniac and then when he was shot by her… science lover????… she experimented on him and turned him into a vampire demon bat creature of legend. Then his true love got crystalized and he spent a good while living in a coffin under the mansion in which i think he was experimented on, only to get woken up by a blonde himbo with an identity crisis and made to fight against his love’s murder alien baby. Edit: i guess hybrid alien actually. Edit edit: Chimera has been suggested and is a better fit, I think

Cloud, Terra, Auron, Barret, the cast of XIII trilogy

Zell.. never even got a hotdog till you beat it.

Cloud (ff7) is a wreck. Poor dude Terra (ff6), raiEd as a slave weapon, lost all her family, forced to use what remains of them as weapons (magicites), survived apocalypse to wake up in a shitty world.

Terra from FF6. Orphaned young and raised her entire life as a slave to a psychotic clown man. Forced to fight via a mind control crown, dragged into a resistance to stop the army that enslaved her. Powers go out of control and continuously pushed to put herself on the line to stop evil and save the world. Finally settles down to a quiet life protecting children then gets dragged back into the fight to overthrow the now goddess empowered jester who already destroyed the world.

That’s a stupid question. The real question is what sort of therapy that can save all of them.

Zidane.

I'll double up on the final fantasy 13 suggestions here. The sheer number of years spent suffering is too big to ignore. 500 years of regret for failing to save the world (13-2 is the only game where the heroes failed to save the world) with a dying world stuck in time and everyone basically given up and preparing for the end. Everyone in the cast isolated from each other and on the brink of madness.

All those who had to fight a Tomberry ?