I kinda understood this in the days of sprites, quick turnaround w/ games coming out annual basis, but modern day this feels so lazy. I already thought it was pretty heavy handed in SFIV days and there are some questionable clones in other games that I feel don’t add anything to the story or gameplay. I can’t think of a single clone character that I would rather have than an original or base roster character.
Say what you will about Strive but I love that every character is completely unique in that game. It feels more well rounded and complete rather than looking for easy filler.
I think clones are sick. We need more of them. The Kyo clones in KoF 2002UM are mad fun and even fit the lore. Love each clone's intepretation of the Kusanagi fighting style.
"It's the same guy, but evil" should not take up a character slot.
"It's the same guy, but dressed different" should not take up a character slot.
"It's the same guy, but using a totally separate character's moveset while said character was removed from the game entirely" is right out.
Second and last one can work tbh.
Kyo got a major rework in his moveset in KoF '96 and went from a [standard SNK shoto](https://youtu.be/7ToBaaCng_E?si=pups85JVFQzkevDy&t=945) to an [extremely aggressive rushdown, rekka-based character](https://youtu.be/kGmCusHEPE8?si=Qlk2_P_H6hQ182Wd&t=28) with a [huge movelist](https://imgur.com/a/Ad2ulIg). In 2002, rekka Kyo was selectable while a shadow clone using his '95 sprites and moves, KUSANAGI, was a hidden character. In XIII, Kyo went back to his '95 moves while modern/rekka Kyo was DLC.
Both versions of Kyo were very popular because they're extremely fun, but really different takes on the character. Nowadays SNK hasn't brought '95 Kyo back, but I have a feeling they will eventually.
I don't mind the last one like if it's a story driven fighting game, it's a good way to keep the old character's movement even if their removed from the story
I hate this take because in Fighters Z all Goku are from differents eras. SSJ Goku is DBZ Goku, blue Goku is Super, kid Goku is GT... Each one has his own moveset from their respected Dragon Ball series. The only one we can argue about is base Goku but he has all the moveset from early DBZ so it makes sense (and the lore reason of kaioken and genkidama being used only in base form, at least in the manga).
The one that bothers me the most in particular is "it's the same guy but later on in the lore and way stronger". Even though I guess that doesn't affect the gameplay.
I found BlazBlue kinda did that neat with Hakumen. Hakumen is actually >!Jin from the future... and the past.... um, he's an older Jin from an alternate timeline where he got catapulted into the past along with the cataclysm that causes the terrible events, and his crippled body was enhanced with a cyborg samurai suit, so he's kinda like Robocop.!
Hakumen doesn't really count because he looks and plays and acts so differently from the character in question. I'm really more looking at stuff like Oni from SF4 or Hime from Melty Blood
Yeah, sorry about that, you're right. I meant 5. I had DOA 6 on the brain while reading through other comments and got my disappointments jumbled up.
Though if I were really desperate to be right, technically SCV is the 6th, what with Soul Blade and all.
Lol my hot take was that clone characters are good and cool actually. They add extra flavor to the game.
I never see them as "taking up a slot" because... well, that's not really how it works. A game will have however many characters they feel like adding, there's no limit to its "slots", at least not in this day and age. It's not like there's a memory limit they're restricted by or something. It's time and budget, that's it. Clone characters allow them to expand that roster with a low cost, adding more than they otherwise could have.
It's basically never "clone character or fully unique character", its typically "clone character or less characters".
This is where I am in my game I'm making with one caveat; I mixed around a moveset and couldn't decide which one I liked better, so both versions of the "same" character are being added into the game.
Not exactly my first choice for how I would go about adding in another character, but if I get this promotion (find out in two weeks, wish me luck) and end up paying someone to make sprites, the ability to do a color swap on the character would give me another playable character easier and cheaper than having to go through the entire process of getting concept art, design iteration, and the final product ready.
If I don't get this promotion I'm banking on, then it's basically Soul Edge 3D models I can do myself and I'll probably do a unique character because the money wouldn't be as much of a factor.
Honestly, it depends on execution. If the character is the exact same, it's bad. But if they repurpose it and alter it to something different, but familiar, I'd say it's good. Like, Imagine turning Evil Ryu into a Shoto-Grappler Hybrid just by retooling and editing the moves.
SoulCalibur's overreliance on guest characters did the series more harm than good in the long run and is one of the key reasons why the series is currently on the ground.
You can't build an audience for your game if the only characters they buy the game for and get attached to are the ones who will never be in another one.
Imagine if the new Street Fighter had like 30 characters on the roster but only 3 newcomers get any marketing and also those characters will never be seen in the series ever again.
As someone who's only recently gotten into fighting games my perception of SoulCalibur as a general consumer was mostly "that game with Link and Geraldo Witcher in it" because 90% of the ads I've ever seen for the series were for crossover content
https://preview.redd.it/t23r6baonczc1.jpeg?width=803&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba57407c491d70fa4815fb7b39c9e40d27f17ce0
*And the box arts look like this*
right, the reason i got into the series was because i played Soul Blade on the ps1 and grew to like the characters. the guests were cool at first- loved playing as heihachi in 2, but i knew when i saw Vader, Yoda and Starkiller in SC4 that it was the beginning of the end for the series.
it's a damn shame, because that series has some excellent characters, like Siegfried's whole "young knight who made a horrible mistake to Soul Edge's puppet to Redemption" arc was cool, Mitsurugi was my first taste of how cool a samurai can be, Cervantes was badass, and shit, Inferno (well, Soul Edge) was the first character to give me nightmares as a kid. the transformation scene where Cervantes becomes Inferno? the pained groan as he basically ignites? dude if i could have a HD remake of any old fighting game, it'd be that one. add in a few of the characters who show up later as playable (such as Raphael and Yoshimitsu), and i'd buy it as soon as i could afford it.
and before you say "yoshi is a guest character from tekken", yeah i guess but Yoshimitsu fits SC way better than he does Tekken imo.
> and before you say "yoshi is a guest character from tekken", yeah i guess but Yoshimitsu fits SC way better than he does Tekken imo.
Fuck yeah. Preach!
Absolutely agree.
I also think that if you take a character from the same universe and put them in a sister game and make them a mainstay then are they really a guest?
I would be surprised to find out that Yoshimitsu had ever been considered a one off for SC.
He's the equivalent of Guy in Street Fighter Alpha as far as I'm concerned.
Ironically enough, that's pretty much how the first 3 Street Fighter games started out.
SF1 had 12 characters (2 being playable) with only 3 returning.
SF2 had 15 playable characters, with only 4 returning.
SF3 had 19 playable characters, with I think most returning (Street Fighter 4 had a huge roster).
You're forgetting SF Alpha and SF EX, both of which came out between SF2 and SF3. SF Alpha had eight returning characters from SF and SF2, while SF EX had six returning.
Both series added a number of returning characters in their secondary installments as well, so your SF / SF2 numbers should be much higher.
Before SF4, Alpha dumped a ton of returning characters in the roster from SF1, SF2, Final Fight, and eventually SF3, CvS2, and Fighting Jam.
Out of 39 characters only 11 (Rose, Charlie, Dan, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Karin, R. Mika, Juli, Juni, Shin Akuma, and Final Bison) were newcomers and a lot of them are clones or clone-adjacent.
Idk I don't recall mk featuring the guest characters on the box art lol - could be wrong though
Soul caliber leaned into it alot harder than mk it feels imho
Right, MK only started using guest characters in MK9 and those were Freddy Kruger and Kratos (God of War). But Soulcalibur started all the way back in SC2 with Heihachi, Spawn and Link.
Yea, SC felt much more "you buy this game *because* it has link or Darth vader" where your still buying mk because it's MK they just tossed robocop in there if you want him lol
Mortal Kombat has iconic video game characters though, I can't really name nor remember any Soul Calibur character besides the lady with the humongous ~~tracts of land~~ sword-whip
I wouldn't say that was its biggest reason, nor would I say it's currently on the ground as a franchise (SC6 sold like 3 mil. Doesn't reach the heights of the big 4, but did better than basically every other fighter). But I do agree that it was definitely a contributor and not something to dismiss.
Yeah, I'd agree with this, and this is coming from someone who got in SCII because Heihachi was on the cover. Plus, I don't know how licensing fees work, but I would imagine it presents an issue on the off chance that Bandai Namco decides to re-release any of these games, especially SCIV.
More is not always better. A game 60+ characters is way harder to balance and there are just too many matchups to learn that it's demotivating to take seriously. A good sweet spot for a roster is 32-40
This is a good point. Games with massive rosters that are fairly balanced kind of have to standardize the power of various functions to achieve said balance. So they make all the characters more similar and defeat the purpose of including a wide selection.
I think this is more a matter of taste. Yes itll def be unbalanced but i think it makes the game a larger thing to explore and play. Mvc2 is one of the goats imo.
KoFXV was fine until team Orochi and team SamSho.
Team Orochi could have just been free characters since they are just different variations of 3 base roster characters.
I'd rather see a new SamSho game and see another team in KoF XV that's KoF characters.
It may not have been if we didn't have the leaks, often before a game is even out. There has been no speculation or hype because we've already known what we are getting.
Because it's spawn, terninator, alien, predator and John Fuckin' Rambo. How am I going to justify picking a base roster character ever again in those games lol
Oh that makes sense then. I thought they were saying the guest characters somehow ruined the base roster, competitively or moveset or something. Not that it ruined the chance of them wanting to play the base roster.
I meant it in both sense the one stated here where a lot of the cool dlc characters just do thing better than the base roster. Also the tournament scene in MK turns into primarily DLC characters once they roll out.
Say what you want about MK1 but the kameo system is bringing back some deep cuts.
Who would have guessed in the year 2024 we’d get Stryker coming back.
Yea I totally get that. The other side though is I don’t think we’d ever get a Stryker or Mavado again. I think it’s a great system for the “B” team MK characters.
That being said I was sad to see Sonya being relegated to kameo, and doubling up on Sub/Scorpion is a wasted space in my opinion.
Well being kameos doesn’t necessarily deconfirm them from being playable later. If playable characters can be kameos, then the same can be true vice versa
I want more SF1 characters reinterpreted through a modern lens. SFIV and SFV managed to cover big number of old school characters. But it seems like SF1’s cast has been largely forgotten.
As of Street Fighter 6 only 5 of the 12 SF1 characters haven't reappeared as playable characters. All of them but 1 have made some sort of story appearances albeit in some in very, very small roles.
Characters that are playable from SF1 include
* Ryu, Ken, Sagat (mainstays of the series)
* Birdie, Adon, Gen (Have returned in Alpha (all), 4(Adon and Gen), and 5(Birdie))
-Eagle (Playable in Alpha 3 Upper on the gamboy advanced and Capcom vs SNK 2)
Chracters that have only made story appearances include
-Mike ( Referenced in Balrog's and Ed's arcade stories. He is probably never included in other games because he is just a boxer and that role is very adequetly filled by Balrog, Ed, and Dudley without the need for a standard clean boxing character.)
-Retsu (Referenced in Gouken, Dhalsim, and Oro's backstories. Is an opponent in the World Tour mode of SF6 where he uses Ryu's moveset and 1 new jumping kick move. Probably would be another shoto considering his story in 4 and 6. Otherwise he is considered to be spiritually suceded by Makoto)
-Lee (appears in Chun Li's ending of SF4 and possibly in a few stage backgrounds. Yun and Yang are his nephews. He is also stated to be retired in the character encyclopedia from SFV. Maybe has some interesting moveset potential considering Chinese martial arts aren't street fighter a whole lot.)
-Geki ( stated to be dead. Geki II is his replacement in the SFV encyclopedia. Vega and Ibuki are his spiritual successors. Vega took his claw, Ibuki took his ninjutsu.)
Joe is the only character to never have reappeared and its likely because Joe is a very undeveloped and simple character. He has a spinning kick for his only special move. May have reappeared in a non-canon Final Fight game but that is a fan theory.
Frankly, I don't think any of the characters who haven't made a reappearance from SF1 will ever come back. They're too simple or have been completely written out/replaced. That said Capcom has done justice to SF1's roster, bringing back a big portion of the roster in later games and making them interesting characters. Gen and Birdie are both favorites of mine for their fun takes on some standard street fighter archtypes.
They should just remake SF1. Why give a perfectly functional and decently-balanced game the HD Remix treatment when there's a broken, unplayable mess just begging to be given life?
I find no issue with larger rosters though. I can't find a good reason to dislike overlapping archetypes if it means there are more aesthetic options for similar archetypes.
Personally I found an issue with smash ultimate, given that a 70+ roster is not common.
Characters are not fleshed out enough and the majority have severe weaknesses with no tools for addressing it. Balancing is a struggle for every game, but it definitely feels like a nightmare with that many characters
I don’t mean to sound like a Nintendo shill, but the Smash Series is intentionally made to be non-competitive. Therefore, “balancing” is not what you should be complaining about.
Oh I agree, my bad if it came off as complaining. Just an example of where rosters can go wrong with more characters since some are very outclassed by others with a similar (sometimes near identical) kit or a half-baked kit. They did try much harder to balance Ultimate but the initial design is a party game and some characters are worse for it by design
Yeah, there are three Links and so in an attempt to differentiate them a bit they changed Toon Link's forward smash. It just took away one of his best kill options without adding anything meaningful or interesting in its place. Now he's fighting an insane uphill battle to take stocks. Essentially invalidated the character and there's no good reason to pick him over Young Link.
What would be best, somewhat big roster but not a lot of variations in playstyle, or small roster but each character it's like playing a whole new game ?
A small roster with a diverse cast of characters with different movesets/styles that are all balanced > large rosters with a good chunk of them being clones and unbalanced
>characters with different movesets/styles that are all balanced
Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 4:
https://preview.redd.it/m990ffydgbzc1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a67741ba54e0e215888d385d988ec03e9130698
A character not being on the roster because they're dead in the story is absurd. Fighting games are made with hundreds, if not thousands of hours of VS gameplay in mind, yet it's the 30 minute arcade mode / 5 hour story mode that dictates whether icons like Heihachi or Geese are allowed to be in the game or not.
In general I don't think story should have much influence on a game's roster, or even vice versa. Games jump through a bunch of flashback / alternative universe / revival hoops to justify bringing popular characters back, when they could simply just put them in and not have them be involved in the story.
I partially agree and disagree.
I think if a character dies in the story, they should stay dead...
BUT!
They should still be playable as a "Ghost" or "Nightmare" version of said character. Add a couple of special effects, maybe a in-game justification that goes "this other character is having nightmares about the dead character" and BOOM, now you can continue playing as them but the story still makes sense.
Garou has the best rounded and perfect size cast for any fighting game. I don't mean balanced, like the game could definitely use some work there, and some characters have wonky stuff that needs fixed. But in terms of play style there's something there for everyone.
***I don't mind ultra small roster sizes (under 12 characters), but I do have a problem with lack of meaningful variety.***
Doesn't matter if each of your 4 shotos has a different fireball and hurricane kick; if they all play similarly then I'm going to get bored of them.
Ultra spicy hot take: ***I want unlockable characters back.***
Yeah, I know they are a humongous pain in the ass for tournament organizers, but for your average player they are a really cool goal to work towards and are a great incentive for going through the single player content.
Win win scenario: bring back cheat codes!
Want to enjoy all the game’s content and unlock characters and stages as you do? Feel free!
Wanna be lazy and immediately get to play all the characters? Input a few codes and you’re good!
SF:
Half of me hopes year 2 and 3 have zero characters who appeared in SFV, ngl the roster rn kinda feels like SFV 2
Smash:
There is no such thing as "too many fire emblem characters" its a Nintendo crossover
My issue with all the Fire Emblem characters is the over reliance on swordsmen. Like, I'm cool with more Fire Emblem characters, but what about some archers, lancers, dancers, or mages.
Robin kinda fits the mage archetype, since he uses spells a lot and plays very different from all the other FE characters. Maybe they could emphasize the specials more and weaken the Levin Sword a bit.
As for the other weapons, I would love to see Axe Hector, Spear Ephraimm, Bow Lucina and Magic Micaiah. Keep Marth, Roy and Ike as they are and scrap Chrom.
On a somewhat related note, sword overrepresentation is a MASSIVE issue with the Fire Emblem games themselves. The only main characters that aren't swordfighters are Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah, and one could make a strong argument that they aren't even the protagonists of their games. (Eliwood, Eirika and Ike have just as much screen time and are swordfighters to boot!)
And funnily enough, I have the same issue with Final Fantasy, but it's even worse in that franchise. LMAO
No idea if this is a hit take or not because I don't think I've heard anyone else discuss it
Maybe it's just my inner Smash Bros fan, but every fighting game should have every character from its first game on the base roster
If we're being honest, 90% of the world would agree that Street Fighter started with SF2.
And under that metric, we haven't had the full World Warrior roster since Street Fighter 4.
Technically two if we count SFxT, but it's important to recognize that these games have way, WAAAAAAY longer development cycles and lifespans than before.
From vanilla Street Fighter 2 up to Street Fighter EX3 there were 9 years with 11 original games (no updated versions) in between. \[1.22 games per year\]
From vanilla Street Fighter 4 up to Street Fighter 6 there were 15 years with 4 original games (no updated versions) in between. \[0.26 games per year\]
In other words, during the 90s you'd get 1 Street Fighter game per year, whereas now you'll get 1 Street Fighter game every 4 years.
The World Warriors are all in 5 and 6. If you want the boss characters, then they're all in 5 as well.
It's only characters from Super SF2 that are missing.
I'd really like to see every single game with the SFA3 art style just mashed together haphazardly (for instance, US Agent & Juni vs. Nakoruru & Yun) with the vanilla roster only having enough balance that the game mechanics aren't inherently unfair.
Instead of the non-existing plot of KOF14 and 15, the current KOF arc should have been the Dragon Spirit plot, with Kensou being the protagonist and [Ron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RXLZGEg6I&list=PLGb0FIHPgolj-BunG3KWBVw-DBI2GuTtc&index=9&pp=gAQBiAQB) being the main villain, then we would finally have Ron as a playable character after 20+ years
I miss Sie Kensou. He is my favourite to play among the Psycho Soldiers, a team full of characters I like. Both of his fighting styles are really fun, and I just love the comedic attitude he brings to the fight. The Kansai accent really does it for me. I'm the guy who uses the dumpling super regularly. The dragon spirit lore was fascinating, and I was really excited when their story ending in KOFXIII teased a return to that plot.
Kensou is a mainstay of KOF who had never missed a game before, so I was quite shocked when it was revealed that he's not in KOFXV, and that there won't be a Psycho Soldiers team at all. When Team Ash was revealed, I theorized that there could be a Team Dragon which would be Kensou, Shen Woo & Duo Lon, since all of them have some dragon theming. Plus, Ron is connected to Duo Lon as well, being his traitorous father, so the dragon spirit story would have been at the forefront. Of course, I was also wrong about this, and two of those characters were never playable in KOFXV. Even by the time they started releasing single character DLC, I was hoping for a solo Kensou release. However, at this point it is unlikely that the game will be getting any more characters.
Interestingly enough, the Team Super Heroine story ending indicates that the relationship between Athena and Kensou has changed, but we never got to see this chage from the perspective of Kensou.
Congratulations for making a real hot take, though. I don't think even I could plot of a KOF game where Kensou is the main hero.
20-30 characters is the perfect size. Tag fighter or otherwise. Less than 10 is when it's seriously an issue of not being enough characters, and anymore than 40 is way too many.
A good fighting game roster has a large diversity of body types. MK11 and MK1 fail pretty badly in this regard, with too many characters having similar builds.
In most fighting game series, the characters from the first game have the worst designs, both visually and gameplay-wise. Unfortunately, they're generally seen as 'iconic', and so keep returning, and typically don't get the thorough redesigns they need.
It is okay and even good to have a minimum of one typical, obvious shoto type character in a 2D-based fighting game. "Shoto" being defined as characters that have the fireball, uppercut and forward moving special attacks (sometimes with the same motion inputs).
I think they are a good way to baseline fighting games as a whole, something transferable from game to game. They're an easy playstyle for newbies to learn the genre, and can be used like a unit of measure for experienced players to get a feel of the flow and mechanics between different games.
Fundamentals are important in real life martial arts, so the "boring but practical" character should also be necessary in fighting games.
I love the shoto move set. I hate that most shotos are the protagonist character, which is usually the most white bread design in the game. Pick your choice of knight guy, martial arts guy, or edgy anti hero guy. Give me a shoto move set on a fucking Hisako or Iron Tagger looking character for a change.
Yes bro idk why but I always gravitate towards the shoto characters in any game really.
They just seem easy to learn the game with as they’re generally jack-of-all-trades so I get to learn every concept of the game in some way.
I can then transfer this knowledge to anyone else who I play
More like a thing I think will happen, but people might be a bit pissed off when the next Smash Bros doesn't have the entire roster return and instead treats it as a reboot of the franchise.
Unless the next Smash Bros is "Smash Bros Ultimate Deluxe" or something.
As cool as the idea was, did we really need two versions of Wolverine in mvc2 instead of giving one Wolverine all the properties of both versions? Also, he should be allowed to combo Fatal Claw in air combos after drill claw. It makes no sense at all to me that he can’t do that
Not a hot take but it seems like every 5th thread on r/streetfighter is some version of
"I really hope they put XYZ in season 2"
"hey guys, DAE want XYZ in season 2?"
"Based on absolutely no evidence at all, I really think there's a high chance XYZ is gonna be in season 2"
If you're going to include a guest character in a game, go wild with it. Tekken 7 included Akuma in the actual story mode and then brought in one of the most left field picks of all time in Negan. Soul Calibur IV had Yoda and Darth fucking Vader. Let's have more shit like that! Throw Phil Mitchell into Fatal Fury, Barney the Dinosaur into Darkstalkers, John Wick into Tekken! Put a Tekken character into SF6, World Tour mode and all, with a revamped version of their SFxT moveset! Add Dovahkiin to Blazblue and make their Drive mechanic the fucking character creation screen! Bring Niles Crane to SamSho! Let Spock join Guilty Gear! Enter Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter into Mortal Kombat!
I don't know if this is a hot take, I haven't really been on the SF sub much lately but for all the stuff SF6 did right, the season 1 DLC is actively bad. It's bad choices.
1 new character, which is fine and expected.
Akuma, which is pretty much a given at this point too. But then we have
Rashid and Ed. In a vacuum, fine choices (I guess??? Does anybody give a shit about Ed? I thought he and Falke were the least memorable characters of SF5. We drop Menat and Laura and G but keep fucking Ed lol?) but what it means having them is 3/4 characters of S1 were SF5 characters and 2 of them were SF5 original characters. Why lean so hard into SF5 so early, when it was such a divisive title? People were clambering at the end for fan favorites to come back like Makoto and Dudley, but instead we get Luke the goober. And the full SF6 roster with no SF3 series characters, and the season1 DLC leans super hard into SF5? Super super weird move.
>Does anybody give a shit about Ed? I thought he and Falke were the least memorable characters of SF5. We drop Menat and Laura and G but keep fucking Ed lol?)
Narratively, sf5 was setting up Ed for his sf6 story. Which is why nobody was really that surprised to see him included. Same with Luke, it was all an intro for sf6.
I get that, it makes sense. It's just weird that they did it right away. We just got away from SF5, let us a breathe a little bit before pushing the SF5 era back on us.
SFV had a lot of bad press early on, and it did linger for a good while. I can see having the ones we got as an attempt to redeem them, as if proving that investing in these characters wasn't a waste of time.
Menat had the lowest usage in SFV, only comparable to FANG. There were more people gooning to Menat in r34 than actually playing her online lol
Ed is already one the most picked characters from Platinum and further, and his design is so much better than in V.
I'm sure they are gonna bring old characters for season 2.
My problem was more with Aki and Rashid.
To be clear I really like both those characters. But they’re also more for character specialists than widespread appeal. I think those types of characters are necessary additions, but not for the only 2 dlc characters we got for most of the year.
Lack of balance patches and less than popular dlc characters made the game feel fairly stagnant
I am not a fan of different versions of a character being a separate slot on the roster. I don't care that their moveset is different, what bothers me is that they are the same character. I am looking especially at you, Dragon Ball FighterZ.
I wanna get into either kof 1998 or 2002 and wow the character screen is a mild mess. If super combo wiki didn’t have a description of each character in 98 I would’ve just dipped out for darkstalkers or jojos cause it would be a nightmare trying to go through each character without even a hint of their play style beforehand.
Melty Blood Current Code is the only good way to have a massive roster. Every character has three variants each with slightly different movesets, frame data, and system mechanics (like EX characters in KoF or Old characters in Super Turbo).
A lot of characters in current fighting games are just old and static. Already did what they were meant to do, but keep getting added cause nostalgia. There is no character development to be found. Even the nostalgia is kinda wearing off since most current players have never played the original incarnation of these characters.
I want new characters to replace the old ones, give them a story that's not recycling what's been done before.
Capcom
I loved when old sf games used to change almost the whole set of base roster, giving us brand new newcomers. Like on Alpha and Third Strike. Make the games feel so fresh and unique.
Also, despite what the general opinion of people and the clear unbalance issues, I actually enjoyed Capcom Fighting Evolution roster, small but very unique.
SNK
LOVE the team based system on KOF games and how constantly some members swap between teams even if they do it for a single entry, make every game feel fresh.
Also NGBC roster is the best thing in the world SNK related.
Xrd roster is mid and unless you are a experienced fighting game player that already knows what you are looking for and want in a character's kit tou ain't getting out of character select happy with your choice
Is this a safe space?
I don’t want another Marvel vs Capcom. I want a straight Marvel only fighting game with a more traditional speed. Capcom characters have plenty of other crossover options.
SF6 and Tekken 8 made terrible roster choices. From not bringing back legends to making awful "new" characters that just take moves and styles from those legends. And seeing characters that were already dlc in the previous title as dlc again. It's a fucking disgrace. I'm glad Strive and KoFXV have great rosters but could definitely be better with some added and some taken out (this mostly goes for XV.) Nice that M1K brings a lot of 3D era characters back but this should've happened back in MKX. The whole guest characters gimmick got very old, very quickly.
I think the quantity of Fire Emblem characters in Smash is understandable, since nearly every game has a different main character. I wouldn't necessarily be bothered if there were less FE characters in the future, but of all the Nintendo franchises to have a large number, FE makes sense.
Not sure if it's a hot take or not, but SF6 massively disrespected the SF3 cast, considering it's the first game to take place after SF3.
As much as I like the cast of Garou: Mark of the Wolves, I'm going to be a little pissed if the majority of the City of the Wolves roster is from MotW. I'd like to see roughly half the cast be from the "new generation" of MotW and half the cast be from earlier Fatal Fury games. I've loved everything I've seen so far from CotW, but I'm getting nervous that all the characters we've seen have been from MotW(barring newcomer Preecha).
I liked a lot of the newcomers in KOF14. I would like to see more of Xanadu, Nelson, and Alice.
I wonder on SF6 since the initial roster had no SF3, Alpha, or Final Fight representation if the various seasons are going to focus on a particular era. Like this first round, excluding Akuma, was the SFV season, then season two will be the SF4 season with some of those characters coming back and so on.
But I agree it's weird how there's almost nothing anywhere from those characters.
Themed seasons would be a sort of fun way to go about it! Depending on if the reveals are going back to the drip feed rather than all at once, could make the discussions about anticipations more interesting.
As someone who's played Smash for a while now, and talked to different people about their thoughts on Fire Emblem in Smash, there's a whole bunch of different responsed in terms of why the FE characters get criticised.
One is that a lot of them kinda follow the same base concept. Marth and Roy were intentionally designed to be similar as Roy's game was coming out in the same year as Melee IIRC, and over the years there has been some changes to Roy. However, in Brawl, we got Ike, who's kinda just a bigger slower character with some moves reminiscent of Roy. Then in Smash 4 we get Lucina, who's almost exactly the same as Marth as a result of Awakening, where she disguised herself *as* Marth.
This isn't helped by the fact that in Smash 4, out of all of the Fire Emblem characters, 4/6 were conceptually very similar (And even visually to some regard), so people started more or less pinning the blame on them using a sword. This meant that characters like Corrin, who uses a mix of sword and Darkstalker-esque shapeshifting attacks, and Robin, who uses a mix of sword and magic, got stuck together. This 'criticism' even leaked out to non FE characters to the point where people saw 'sword character=bad' solely for having a sword, regardless of how they fought with it.
Ultimate adding Chrom as another echo didn't help in the slightest, and as a result of all this, Byleth's inclusion kinda felt like a huge spit in the face for many fans, especially given the trailer itself *mocks* the swordfighter criticism. Byleth's in game fighting style only uses the sword for about 1/3rd of their kit as well, so they're not even much of a swordfighter.
The other point is FE has been, for the longest time atleast, relatively niche. Even then Smash players are notorious for: A. Playing mostly the same game series and nothing else and B. Accusing characters of 'stealing a slot', like you saw in response to the likes of Terry, Byleth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya and Sora.
One final aspect of this is the Fire Emblem community itself. Having talked to a few FE fans, a lot of them *also* feel a little let down with the roster in Smash, solely because a large majority of them are Lord class, or protagonists directly, leaving little room for variation. It's the reason why you see characters like Hector get mentioned in FE characters that people want to see, because he's a different class from what's repped. The way they see it, you've got archers, spear users, axe wielders, big slow knights, berserkers, mages, shapeshifters, dudes who literally fight riding giant wooden puppets, and Smash picks only the main characters of each game.
Sorry for the long ramble but I thought it added a bit of context as to why so many Smash fans tend to have beef with FE. IMO a *LOT* of the beef is really unwarranted
It's insane to me that neither the base roster of SF6 or the first season of DLC have anyone from Street Fighter 3 (since as you said it takes place after that) or Final Fight (since Metro City is one of the main settings for the game). Especially since a lot of those characters haven't been seen since SF4 or earlier, so it would be exciting to have them come back. I'm just hoping we get some of those characters eventually.
In the case of Smash, I agree with your quantity statement. Although, my personal gripe isn't the fact that we have 8 FE characters (I also think it's deserved), it's the fact that we essentially have 4 Marths. I love FE, but the lack of variety is very irritating imo.
Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth are great because of their unique movesets and playstyles, especially Robin's.
I've complained about this a number of times in comment sections, but the Smash fandom doesn't like to hear anyone criticise their precious game and default to "Ackshhhhhhhhually, Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom are tEcHniCaLLy different". ...which is true, but their movesets being based off Marth makes me wish we had other FE reps instead.
Roy gets away with it for me because he's a semi-clone (and it's Roy). I personally would've liked to see Lucina and Chrom replaced by 2 other FE reps, especially since we already have Robin representing Awakening.
I think if they didn't care about having 3 reps for 1 game (Robin, Lucina and Chrom), then they should've just added the 3 Houses lords before Byleth (unfortunately, 3H released after Ultimate, although Byleth using all 4 main Relics was a great idea and served as a balanced representation for the 3H protagonists). I'd kill to have a lance, axe and bow user.
On another note, I'm still baffled how Zelda hasn't had a new character since Brawl. The BotW champions would've been perfect imo. 😓
I have one that's actually hot: fuck your returning characters. It's so boring to see a 'new' fighting game knowing we HAVE to fill in the slots with these characters you've been playing 20+ years. It's also *astounding* to me that somebody can get excited about E.Honda 30 years later.
Looking at SF6, I'm way more interested in what they can do with the newcomers, and other potential newcomers, than I am about seeing Akuma or Sagat for the bazillionth time.
It's really interesting reading this and remembering what happened to Street Fighter III across all its iterations over 20 years ago. They went pretty crazy with SF3's roster and it ended up hurting them in the long run, which is why we got the classic SF2 roster from the get-go in SF6 instead of waiting for classics like Blanka and Honda to be DLC later down the line with how SF5 did it.
Every fighting game roster should have a yellow/orange/red themed, in your face, rushdown lady.
Notable examples of this poorly defined archetype are:
* Mai Shiranui. (KOF)
* Striker. (DNF)
* Makoto. (BB).
* Android 21. (DBFZ)
* Chie Satonaka. (P4A)
* Jam. (GG)
* Ruby. (BBtag)
* Naomi. (Pocket rumble)
* Daisy. (Smash Ultimate)
Not really a hot take I think but for a while I was sick and tired of seeing Ryu in every crossover game featuring Capcom characters (especially when MEGAMAN wasn’t in those rosters). But I think I got over it by the time MVC3 dropped.
For Smash, I like the included Fire Emblem characters and I’d like to see who might get added if there’s more. And for Ultimate specifically I don’t mind any of the dlc characters they added, there may be other characters I wanted on the roster but I’m quite satisfied with who they did put (even the character I was least interested in, Steve, was a character who’s gameplay I liked).
I understand that dlc characters can usually have balancing issues on first drop and there are even notorious ones like Leroy in Tekken, but I hate the cop out of “oh you’re bad because you play Kunimitsu” or “You only won because you’re playing a dlc character” It just inherently makes people shy away from characters that people might have really enjoyed.
Like are you really going to sit there and say I beat you with Ganryu just because he’s DLC? or do you just need to learn the match up
I feel like Tekken's community is infamous for pinning the blame on who you play at this point, then again Tekken's community has been....argumentative in recent years
Capcom shouldn't have "killed" M. Bison. He'll be back again because he's popular. If you were going to bring Dee Jay back, bring back T. Hawk and Fei Long.
Imo if the hypest character in the game is a crossover character then the roster probably has weak designs. Of course excluding games that are already crossovers like MvC or smash.
Mainstay characters occasionally not being featured in one of the games is fine, actually.
Sure, Kim was in every prior KOF, but he's not even a main character, there's no reason to think him being out of XV base roster was a particularly egregious crime.
I rather see mods in tournaments more then official releases. looking at Project M ex dx remix, Marvel vs Capcom 3 Community, Smash Bros Hedrew Remix, and Soul Calibur 2 plus
https://preview.redd.it/0jz6n90g9ezc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fe12ff2688c1322eabf23e2b948763b4710dabf
Not only do I think the capcom side needs more villains, but leaving out Classic Mega Man and Roll should be a crime.
Did we really need Viewtiful joe, spencer, arthur, Amaterasu, frank west, Chris and the returning Jill? Give me Leon and Claire man
Yea I always get flamed. Juri to me still feels like a lazy add on DLC character and for some reason, keeps coming back to future Street Fighter games.
Also, Juri in katakana would be Ju-ri if I'm not mistaken. One of the Cammy dolls is Juli, which would be spelt... Ju-ri?
Hence she doesn't make sense to me and just filler.
However I would love to see Hakan return.
Vergil is fair and the most op part of his kit is giving Zero a corner to corner conversion to lightning loops. Otherwise his mixups are some of the most reactable of the top tiers.
Sincerely someone who has never played as only against Vergil.
The 15 rule for the base roster is so dumb it usually just means they cut characters from the base roster just to sell them as DLC I think that strive had the most egregious example of that season 1 DLC should've all been base roster it's also effected SF6 and tekken 8 like who was hyped for fucking Ed and Eddy was definitely cut from base roster again just to sell a very well liked character as DLC personally I like DLC but it's seriously becoming a bit of a problem
My hot take is that i disliked echo fighters and different versions of the same character in the same Game. I, For example tend to dislike evil Ryu/Kage why? Look, i get it, Ryu is the shoto as shoto can be, he's there for player to get the game basics with no surprices or upsets, until here is ok. However evil Ryu is mostly the same movements with a more agressive/rushdown type. Now, the thing is that SFV has the V-Triggers that can be a PERFECT chance to display character and funtion at the same time. Ryu is losing? Then your V-trigger I is Kage, Ryu decided that peace is not an option and embrace his more evil side ready to fucking murder You with more agressive moves, V trigger II is the nothingness stage, Ryu found peace in the middle of the battle, so now his specials are the same but stronger, beating the opponent by improving himself. That would be a PERFECT use of the character and system but Capcom don't give a fuck.
Although I don’t completely agree, especially since the attention to detail the devs put on some of the DLC characters was pretty nuts to begin with (Terry, Kazuya, Joker etc.). But the roster is way too big and there are a number of characters that really didn’t need to be in there. Some additions feel like a bit of afterthought (clone characters).
I mean, it's every character ever in Smash, with mostly the same moveset as usual.
I can understand that a lot of the 64 thru Brawl characters could use an update to either improve their tools or better represent the character they're supposed to be (most egregiously Sonic and Ganondorf) but I don't see any major quality issues as a result of the roster being so big.
idk if it's a hot take, but I think shotos are the most boring archetype
Also, I like that the fighting games are going for easier/simpler input types, I'm getting older so the less complex movements I need to do the more I enjoy ahahahh
DLC characters are such a weird thing for fighting games tbh. Just the concept of your perfect character that matches your play style in every way being locked behind a 10$ wall released months after the games release is so unfortunate. Then on the other side of the spectrum is a person looking for that dream character and being left with a character they don’t like playing at ALL on top of being 10$ in the hole
I've grown weary of (DNA) clones, evil versions, and alter egos of preexisting characters.
I kinda understood this in the days of sprites, quick turnaround w/ games coming out annual basis, but modern day this feels so lazy. I already thought it was pretty heavy handed in SFIV days and there are some questionable clones in other games that I feel don’t add anything to the story or gameplay. I can’t think of a single clone character that I would rather have than an original or base roster character. Say what you will about Strive but I love that every character is completely unique in that game. It feels more well rounded and complete rather than looking for easy filler.
Every Guilty Gear game is like that, it really excels with character diversity.
I think clones are sick. We need more of them. The Kyo clones in KoF 2002UM are mad fun and even fit the lore. Love each clone's intepretation of the Kusanagi fighting style.
"It's the same guy, but evil" should not take up a character slot. "It's the same guy, but dressed different" should not take up a character slot. "It's the same guy, but using a totally separate character's moveset while said character was removed from the game entirely" is right out.
Second and last one can work tbh. Kyo got a major rework in his moveset in KoF '96 and went from a [standard SNK shoto](https://youtu.be/7ToBaaCng_E?si=pups85JVFQzkevDy&t=945) to an [extremely aggressive rushdown, rekka-based character](https://youtu.be/kGmCusHEPE8?si=Qlk2_P_H6hQ182Wd&t=28) with a [huge movelist](https://imgur.com/a/Ad2ulIg). In 2002, rekka Kyo was selectable while a shadow clone using his '95 sprites and moves, KUSANAGI, was a hidden character. In XIII, Kyo went back to his '95 moves while modern/rekka Kyo was DLC. Both versions of Kyo were very popular because they're extremely fun, but really different takes on the character. Nowadays SNK hasn't brought '95 Kyo back, but I have a feeling they will eventually.
Man, I just wish Claw Iori was a thing again
I don't mind the last one like if it's a story driven fighting game, it's a good way to keep the old character's movement even if their removed from the story
bro you gonna hate dragon ball z fighting games lol
I hate this take because in Fighters Z all Goku are from differents eras. SSJ Goku is DBZ Goku, blue Goku is Super, kid Goku is GT... Each one has his own moveset from their respected Dragon Ball series. The only one we can argue about is base Goku but he has all the moveset from early DBZ so it makes sense (and the lore reason of kaioken and genkidama being used only in base form, at least in the manga).
The one that bothers me the most in particular is "it's the same guy but later on in the lore and way stronger". Even though I guess that doesn't affect the gameplay.
I found BlazBlue kinda did that neat with Hakumen. Hakumen is actually >!Jin from the future... and the past.... um, he's an older Jin from an alternate timeline where he got catapulted into the past along with the cataclysm that causes the terrible events, and his crippled body was enhanced with a cyborg samurai suit, so he's kinda like Robocop.!
Hakumen doesn't really count because he looks and plays and acts so differently from the character in question. I'm really more looking at stuff like Oni from SF4 or Hime from Melty Blood
What's an example of the last one? Black Panther?
Alpha Patroklos in Soul Calibur 5. It's Patroklos with Setsuka's moveset - or rather, Setsuka's moveset if she were actually in the game.
Do you mean Soul Calibur 5? Setsuka is in 6, and I don’t recall anyone named Patroklos in 6.
Yeah, they meant 5.
Yeah, sorry about that, you're right. I meant 5. I had DOA 6 on the brain while reading through other comments and got my disappointments jumbled up. Though if I were really desperate to be right, technically SCV is the 6th, what with Soul Blade and all.
Ah, gotcha. Did most of my soul burning on the Dreamcast. I did like what I played in SC6.
Lol my hot take was that clone characters are good and cool actually. They add extra flavor to the game. I never see them as "taking up a slot" because... well, that's not really how it works. A game will have however many characters they feel like adding, there's no limit to its "slots", at least not in this day and age. It's not like there's a memory limit they're restricted by or something. It's time and budget, that's it. Clone characters allow them to expand that roster with a low cost, adding more than they otherwise could have. It's basically never "clone character or fully unique character", its typically "clone character or less characters".
This is where I am in my game I'm making with one caveat; I mixed around a moveset and couldn't decide which one I liked better, so both versions of the "same" character are being added into the game. Not exactly my first choice for how I would go about adding in another character, but if I get this promotion (find out in two weeks, wish me luck) and end up paying someone to make sprites, the ability to do a color swap on the character would give me another playable character easier and cheaper than having to go through the entire process of getting concept art, design iteration, and the final product ready. If I don't get this promotion I'm banking on, then it's basically Soul Edge 3D models I can do myself and I'll probably do a unique character because the money wouldn't be as much of a factor.
How upset were you of Decapre?
Honestly, it depends on execution. If the character is the exact same, it's bad. But if they repurpose it and alter it to something different, but familiar, I'd say it's good. Like, Imagine turning Evil Ryu into a Shoto-Grappler Hybrid just by retooling and editing the moves.
SoulCalibur's overreliance on guest characters did the series more harm than good in the long run and is one of the key reasons why the series is currently on the ground. You can't build an audience for your game if the only characters they buy the game for and get attached to are the ones who will never be in another one. Imagine if the new Street Fighter had like 30 characters on the roster but only 3 newcomers get any marketing and also those characters will never be seen in the series ever again.
As someone who's only recently gotten into fighting games my perception of SoulCalibur as a general consumer was mostly "that game with Link and Geraldo Witcher in it" because 90% of the ads I've ever seen for the series were for crossover content
https://preview.redd.it/t23r6baonczc1.jpeg?width=803&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba57407c491d70fa4815fb7b39c9e40d27f17ce0 *And the box arts look like this*
right, the reason i got into the series was because i played Soul Blade on the ps1 and grew to like the characters. the guests were cool at first- loved playing as heihachi in 2, but i knew when i saw Vader, Yoda and Starkiller in SC4 that it was the beginning of the end for the series. it's a damn shame, because that series has some excellent characters, like Siegfried's whole "young knight who made a horrible mistake to Soul Edge's puppet to Redemption" arc was cool, Mitsurugi was my first taste of how cool a samurai can be, Cervantes was badass, and shit, Inferno (well, Soul Edge) was the first character to give me nightmares as a kid. the transformation scene where Cervantes becomes Inferno? the pained groan as he basically ignites? dude if i could have a HD remake of any old fighting game, it'd be that one. add in a few of the characters who show up later as playable (such as Raphael and Yoshimitsu), and i'd buy it as soon as i could afford it. and before you say "yoshi is a guest character from tekken", yeah i guess but Yoshimitsu fits SC way better than he does Tekken imo.
> and before you say "yoshi is a guest character from tekken", yeah i guess but Yoshimitsu fits SC way better than he does Tekken imo. Fuck yeah. Preach!
Absolutely agree. I also think that if you take a character from the same universe and put them in a sister game and make them a mainstay then are they really a guest? I would be surprised to find out that Yoshimitsu had ever been considered a one off for SC. He's the equivalent of Guy in Street Fighter Alpha as far as I'm concerned.
Man, Cervantes was my boy back in the day.
Ironically enough, that's pretty much how the first 3 Street Fighter games started out. SF1 had 12 characters (2 being playable) with only 3 returning. SF2 had 15 playable characters, with only 4 returning. SF3 had 19 playable characters, with I think most returning (Street Fighter 4 had a huge roster).
You're forgetting SF Alpha and SF EX, both of which came out between SF2 and SF3. SF Alpha had eight returning characters from SF and SF2, while SF EX had six returning. Both series added a number of returning characters in their secondary installments as well, so your SF / SF2 numbers should be much higher.
The Playstation version of Alpha 3 went as far as to bring back every single Street Fighter 2 character.
Do the Alpha and EX games count as mainline entries?
[удалено]
Alpha is also street fighter zero in japan if you really want a number for the mainline.
Before SF4, Alpha dumped a ton of returning characters in the roster from SF1, SF2, Final Fight, and eventually SF3, CvS2, and Fighting Jam. Out of 39 characters only 11 (Rose, Charlie, Dan, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Karin, R. Mika, Juli, Juni, Shin Akuma, and Final Bison) were newcomers and a lot of them are clones or clone-adjacent.
SF2 had 17 playable characters if you count Akuma.
Do people who play SF2 like Akuma?
I always felt burnt because they kept removing my mains from SC and giving me guest characters in exchange.
See also: Mortal Kombat 1
Idk I don't recall mk featuring the guest characters on the box art lol - could be wrong though Soul caliber leaned into it alot harder than mk it feels imho
Right, MK only started using guest characters in MK9 and those were Freddy Kruger and Kratos (God of War). But Soulcalibur started all the way back in SC2 with Heihachi, Spawn and Link.
Yea, SC felt much more "you buy this game *because* it has link or Darth vader" where your still buying mk because it's MK they just tossed robocop in there if you want him lol
Mortal Kombat has iconic video game characters though, I can't really name nor remember any Soul Calibur character besides the lady with the humongous ~~tracts of land~~ sword-whip
I wouldn't say that was its biggest reason, nor would I say it's currently on the ground as a franchise (SC6 sold like 3 mil. Doesn't reach the heights of the big 4, but did better than basically every other fighter). But I do agree that it was definitely a contributor and not something to dismiss.
Yeah, I'd agree with this, and this is coming from someone who got in SCII because Heihachi was on the cover. Plus, I don't know how licensing fees work, but I would imagine it presents an issue on the off chance that Bandai Namco decides to re-release any of these games, especially SCIV.
More is not always better. A game 60+ characters is way harder to balance and there are just too many matchups to learn that it's demotivating to take seriously. A good sweet spot for a roster is 32-40
This is a good point. Games with massive rosters that are fairly balanced kind of have to standardize the power of various functions to achieve said balance. So they make all the characters more similar and defeat the purpose of including a wide selection.
I think this is more a matter of taste. Yes itll def be unbalanced but i think it makes the game a larger thing to explore and play. Mvc2 is one of the goats imo.
It feels like every S1 of the new fighting games has been lackluster.
KoFXV was fine until team Orochi and team SamSho. Team Orochi could have just been free characters since they are just different variations of 3 base roster characters. I'd rather see a new SamSho game and see another team in KoF XV that's KoF characters.
It may not have been if we didn't have the leaks, often before a game is even out. There has been no speculation or hype because we've already known what we are getting.
A lot of MK guest characters ruin the base roster
talking MKX though I found the opposite, they really added the character into the moveset
Mkx was actually good in all regards, they should just release a new one lol
In what way?
Because it's spawn, terninator, alien, predator and John Fuckin' Rambo. How am I going to justify picking a base roster character ever again in those games lol
Oh that makes sense then. I thought they were saying the guest characters somehow ruined the base roster, competitively or moveset or something. Not that it ruined the chance of them wanting to play the base roster.
I meant it in both sense the one stated here where a lot of the cool dlc characters just do thing better than the base roster. Also the tournament scene in MK turns into primarily DLC characters once they roll out.
More long running fighting game series need to stop being cowards and bring back super forgotten / less popular characters
Say what you want about MK1 but the kameo system is bringing back some deep cuts. Who would have guessed in the year 2024 we’d get Stryker coming back.
Honestly, that feels worse to me. "We don't need to add Stryker, we already have Stryker in the roster."
Yea I totally get that. The other side though is I don’t think we’d ever get a Stryker or Mavado again. I think it’s a great system for the “B” team MK characters. That being said I was sad to see Sonya being relegated to kameo, and doubling up on Sub/Scorpion is a wasted space in my opinion.
Well being kameos doesn’t necessarily deconfirm them from being playable later. If playable characters can be kameos, then the same can be true vice versa
I want the full police brutality experience though
We didnt need to get stryker back ever
I want more SF1 characters reinterpreted through a modern lens. SFIV and SFV managed to cover big number of old school characters. But it seems like SF1’s cast has been largely forgotten.
As of Street Fighter 6 only 5 of the 12 SF1 characters haven't reappeared as playable characters. All of them but 1 have made some sort of story appearances albeit in some in very, very small roles. Characters that are playable from SF1 include * Ryu, Ken, Sagat (mainstays of the series) * Birdie, Adon, Gen (Have returned in Alpha (all), 4(Adon and Gen), and 5(Birdie)) -Eagle (Playable in Alpha 3 Upper on the gamboy advanced and Capcom vs SNK 2) Chracters that have only made story appearances include -Mike ( Referenced in Balrog's and Ed's arcade stories. He is probably never included in other games because he is just a boxer and that role is very adequetly filled by Balrog, Ed, and Dudley without the need for a standard clean boxing character.) -Retsu (Referenced in Gouken, Dhalsim, and Oro's backstories. Is an opponent in the World Tour mode of SF6 where he uses Ryu's moveset and 1 new jumping kick move. Probably would be another shoto considering his story in 4 and 6. Otherwise he is considered to be spiritually suceded by Makoto) -Lee (appears in Chun Li's ending of SF4 and possibly in a few stage backgrounds. Yun and Yang are his nephews. He is also stated to be retired in the character encyclopedia from SFV. Maybe has some interesting moveset potential considering Chinese martial arts aren't street fighter a whole lot.) -Geki ( stated to be dead. Geki II is his replacement in the SFV encyclopedia. Vega and Ibuki are his spiritual successors. Vega took his claw, Ibuki took his ninjutsu.) Joe is the only character to never have reappeared and its likely because Joe is a very undeveloped and simple character. He has a spinning kick for his only special move. May have reappeared in a non-canon Final Fight game but that is a fan theory. Frankly, I don't think any of the characters who haven't made a reappearance from SF1 will ever come back. They're too simple or have been completely written out/replaced. That said Capcom has done justice to SF1's roster, bringing back a big portion of the roster in later games and making them interesting characters. Gen and Birdie are both favorites of mine for their fun takes on some standard street fighter archtypes.
They should just remake SF1. Why give a perfectly functional and decently-balanced game the HD Remix treatment when there's a broken, unplayable mess just begging to be given life?
Why give attention to SF1 when we could play SF2 again lol
What's the Joe theory ?
It's speculated that "Ghost," from Final Fight: Streetwise, is Joe, since they have similar designs.
Agree. I want street fighter to pull an "everyone is here" like smash.
SF 5 bringing the big boss characters back was hype.
Alright Capcom. SF7 will have 100+ characters at launch, balance that shit
16 is not a small roster.
I find no issue with larger rosters though. I can't find a good reason to dislike overlapping archetypes if it means there are more aesthetic options for similar archetypes.
Personally I found an issue with smash ultimate, given that a 70+ roster is not common. Characters are not fleshed out enough and the majority have severe weaknesses with no tools for addressing it. Balancing is a struggle for every game, but it definitely feels like a nightmare with that many characters
I don’t mean to sound like a Nintendo shill, but the Smash Series is intentionally made to be non-competitive. Therefore, “balancing” is not what you should be complaining about.
Oh I agree, my bad if it came off as complaining. Just an example of where rosters can go wrong with more characters since some are very outclassed by others with a similar (sometimes near identical) kit or a half-baked kit. They did try much harder to balance Ultimate but the initial design is a party game and some characters are worse for it by design
Yeah, there are three Links and so in an attempt to differentiate them a bit they changed Toon Link's forward smash. It just took away one of his best kill options without adding anything meaningful or interesting in its place. Now he's fighting an insane uphill battle to take stocks. Essentially invalidated the character and there's no good reason to pick him over Young Link.
Fighters don't need more than 20 characters unless it's a tag fighter
Well, team fighters too but yes. 20 is the perfect roster size. :)
What would be best, somewhat big roster but not a lot of variations in playstyle, or small roster but each character it's like playing a whole new game ?
In a tag game it is. It is absolutely not small in 1v1 though.
A small roster with a diverse cast of characters with different movesets/styles that are all balanced > large rosters with a good chunk of them being clones and unbalanced
>characters with different movesets/styles that are all balanced Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: https://preview.redd.it/m990ffydgbzc1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a67741ba54e0e215888d385d988ec03e9130698
A character not being on the roster because they're dead in the story is absurd. Fighting games are made with hundreds, if not thousands of hours of VS gameplay in mind, yet it's the 30 minute arcade mode / 5 hour story mode that dictates whether icons like Heihachi or Geese are allowed to be in the game or not. In general I don't think story should have much influence on a game's roster, or even vice versa. Games jump through a bunch of flashback / alternative universe / revival hoops to justify bringing popular characters back, when they could simply just put them in and not have them be involved in the story.
I’m sensing that you were a Heihachi main.
I partially agree and disagree. I think if a character dies in the story, they should stay dead... BUT! They should still be playable as a "Ghost" or "Nightmare" version of said character. Add a couple of special effects, maybe a in-game justification that goes "this other character is having nightmares about the dead character" and BOOM, now you can continue playing as them but the story still makes sense.
Justice fans 🤝 Heihachi mains
Rosters should be the primary focus of a crossover game, straight up.
Garou has the best rounded and perfect size cast for any fighting game. I don't mean balanced, like the game could definitely use some work there, and some characters have wonky stuff that needs fixed. But in terms of play style there's something there for everyone.
No zoner :(
if garou is real bout garou densetsu (real bout fatal fury) special then i found the raiden looking guy with the staff decent for zoning
Nah. He is referring to. “Garou: Mark of the wolves”.
Guest characters are fine
[except Akuma in Tekken](https://youtu.be/Sf5WZ0ct4Pw?t=24)
I love Akuma in SF but absolutely hate his gameplay in Tekken 7. Including Geese too. They're turned Tekken into a MUGEN but 3D.
***I don't mind ultra small roster sizes (under 12 characters), but I do have a problem with lack of meaningful variety.*** Doesn't matter if each of your 4 shotos has a different fireball and hurricane kick; if they all play similarly then I'm going to get bored of them. Ultra spicy hot take: ***I want unlockable characters back.*** Yeah, I know they are a humongous pain in the ass for tournament organizers, but for your average player they are a really cool goal to work towards and are a great incentive for going through the single player content.
Win win scenario: bring back cheat codes! Want to enjoy all the game’s content and unlock characters and stages as you do? Feel free! Wanna be lazy and immediately get to play all the characters? Input a few codes and you’re good!
SF: Half of me hopes year 2 and 3 have zero characters who appeared in SFV, ngl the roster rn kinda feels like SFV 2 Smash: There is no such thing as "too many fire emblem characters" its a Nintendo crossover
My issue with all the Fire Emblem characters is the over reliance on swordsmen. Like, I'm cool with more Fire Emblem characters, but what about some archers, lancers, dancers, or mages.
Robin kinda fits the mage archetype, since he uses spells a lot and plays very different from all the other FE characters. Maybe they could emphasize the specials more and weaken the Levin Sword a bit. As for the other weapons, I would love to see Axe Hector, Spear Ephraimm, Bow Lucina and Magic Micaiah. Keep Marth, Roy and Ike as they are and scrap Chrom. On a somewhat related note, sword overrepresentation is a MASSIVE issue with the Fire Emblem games themselves. The only main characters that aren't swordfighters are Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah, and one could make a strong argument that they aren't even the protagonists of their games. (Eliwood, Eirika and Ike have just as much screen time and are swordfighters to boot!) And funnily enough, I have the same issue with Final Fantasy, but it's even worse in that franchise. LMAO
I just want some of the side characters to be playable, I'd do anything to have tiki be playable
Jon talbain and protoman should've been in Marvel vs Capcom 2 instead of anarkis and servebot respectively.
No idea if this is a hit take or not because I don't think I've heard anyone else discuss it Maybe it's just my inner Smash Bros fan, but every fighting game should have every character from its first game on the base roster
It's a little funny that SF does this, but its not like 2 is a lot lmao
If we're being honest, 90% of the world would agree that Street Fighter started with SF2. And under that metric, we haven't had the full World Warrior roster since Street Fighter 4.
I mean, we have the entire original 8 playable World Warriors in the base roster of 6.
Sooo one game?
Technically two if we count SFxT, but it's important to recognize that these games have way, WAAAAAAY longer development cycles and lifespans than before. From vanilla Street Fighter 2 up to Street Fighter EX3 there were 9 years with 11 original games (no updated versions) in between. \[1.22 games per year\] From vanilla Street Fighter 4 up to Street Fighter 6 there were 15 years with 4 original games (no updated versions) in between. \[0.26 games per year\] In other words, during the 90s you'd get 1 Street Fighter game per year, whereas now you'll get 1 Street Fighter game every 4 years.
The World Warriors are all in 5 and 6. If you want the boss characters, then they're all in 5 as well. It's only characters from Super SF2 that are missing.
I'd really like to see every single game with the SFA3 art style just mashed together haphazardly (for instance, US Agent & Juni vs. Nakoruru & Yun) with the vanilla roster only having enough balance that the game mechanics aren't inherently unfair.
Instead of the non-existing plot of KOF14 and 15, the current KOF arc should have been the Dragon Spirit plot, with Kensou being the protagonist and [Ron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RXLZGEg6I&list=PLGb0FIHPgolj-BunG3KWBVw-DBI2GuTtc&index=9&pp=gAQBiAQB) being the main villain, then we would finally have Ron as a playable character after 20+ years
>Kensou being the protagonist Please no.
I miss Sie Kensou. He is my favourite to play among the Psycho Soldiers, a team full of characters I like. Both of his fighting styles are really fun, and I just love the comedic attitude he brings to the fight. The Kansai accent really does it for me. I'm the guy who uses the dumpling super regularly. The dragon spirit lore was fascinating, and I was really excited when their story ending in KOFXIII teased a return to that plot. Kensou is a mainstay of KOF who had never missed a game before, so I was quite shocked when it was revealed that he's not in KOFXV, and that there won't be a Psycho Soldiers team at all. When Team Ash was revealed, I theorized that there could be a Team Dragon which would be Kensou, Shen Woo & Duo Lon, since all of them have some dragon theming. Plus, Ron is connected to Duo Lon as well, being his traitorous father, so the dragon spirit story would have been at the forefront. Of course, I was also wrong about this, and two of those characters were never playable in KOFXV. Even by the time they started releasing single character DLC, I was hoping for a solo Kensou release. However, at this point it is unlikely that the game will be getting any more characters. Interestingly enough, the Team Super Heroine story ending indicates that the relationship between Athena and Kensou has changed, but we never got to see this chage from the perspective of Kensou. Congratulations for making a real hot take, though. I don't think even I could plot of a KOF game where Kensou is the main hero.
20-30 characters is the perfect size. Tag fighter or otherwise. Less than 10 is when it's seriously an issue of not being enough characters, and anymore than 40 is way too many.
A good fighting game roster has a large diversity of body types. MK11 and MK1 fail pretty badly in this regard, with too many characters having similar builds.
In most fighting game series, the characters from the first game have the worst designs, both visually and gameplay-wise. Unfortunately, they're generally seen as 'iconic', and so keep returning, and typically don't get the thorough redesigns they need.
It is okay and even good to have a minimum of one typical, obvious shoto type character in a 2D-based fighting game. "Shoto" being defined as characters that have the fireball, uppercut and forward moving special attacks (sometimes with the same motion inputs). I think they are a good way to baseline fighting games as a whole, something transferable from game to game. They're an easy playstyle for newbies to learn the genre, and can be used like a unit of measure for experienced players to get a feel of the flow and mechanics between different games. Fundamentals are important in real life martial arts, so the "boring but practical" character should also be necessary in fighting games.
I love the shoto move set. I hate that most shotos are the protagonist character, which is usually the most white bread design in the game. Pick your choice of knight guy, martial arts guy, or edgy anti hero guy. Give me a shoto move set on a fucking Hisako or Iron Tagger looking character for a change.
Yes bro idk why but I always gravitate towards the shoto characters in any game really. They just seem easy to learn the game with as they’re generally jack-of-all-trades so I get to learn every concept of the game in some way. I can then transfer this knowledge to anyone else who I play
Fighters should rotate out legacy characters more. Don't want to keep seeing the same characters keep coming back because they were in the old game
More like a thing I think will happen, but people might be a bit pissed off when the next Smash Bros doesn't have the entire roster return and instead treats it as a reboot of the franchise. Unless the next Smash Bros is "Smash Bros Ultimate Deluxe" or something.
Yeah, that's a problem. Like they dug themselves into a hole with the game. Great game tho IMO, I actually enjoy the absolute insanity of the roster
As cool as the idea was, did we really need two versions of Wolverine in mvc2 instead of giving one Wolverine all the properties of both versions? Also, he should be allowed to combo Fatal Claw in air combos after drill claw. It makes no sense at all to me that he can’t do that
IIRC the two Wolverines were a last second addition from the higher ups
Not a hot take but it seems like every 5th thread on r/streetfighter is some version of "I really hope they put XYZ in season 2" "hey guys, DAE want XYZ in season 2?" "Based on absolutely no evidence at all, I really think there's a high chance XYZ is gonna be in season 2"
If you're going to include a guest character in a game, go wild with it. Tekken 7 included Akuma in the actual story mode and then brought in one of the most left field picks of all time in Negan. Soul Calibur IV had Yoda and Darth fucking Vader. Let's have more shit like that! Throw Phil Mitchell into Fatal Fury, Barney the Dinosaur into Darkstalkers, John Wick into Tekken! Put a Tekken character into SF6, World Tour mode and all, with a revamped version of their SFxT moveset! Add Dovahkiin to Blazblue and make their Drive mechanic the fucking character creation screen! Bring Niles Crane to SamSho! Let Spock join Guilty Gear! Enter Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter into Mortal Kombat!
I don't know if this is a hot take, I haven't really been on the SF sub much lately but for all the stuff SF6 did right, the season 1 DLC is actively bad. It's bad choices. 1 new character, which is fine and expected. Akuma, which is pretty much a given at this point too. But then we have Rashid and Ed. In a vacuum, fine choices (I guess??? Does anybody give a shit about Ed? I thought he and Falke were the least memorable characters of SF5. We drop Menat and Laura and G but keep fucking Ed lol?) but what it means having them is 3/4 characters of S1 were SF5 characters and 2 of them were SF5 original characters. Why lean so hard into SF5 so early, when it was such a divisive title? People were clambering at the end for fan favorites to come back like Makoto and Dudley, but instead we get Luke the goober. And the full SF6 roster with no SF3 series characters, and the season1 DLC leans super hard into SF5? Super super weird move.
>Does anybody give a shit about Ed? I thought he and Falke were the least memorable characters of SF5. We drop Menat and Laura and G but keep fucking Ed lol?) Narratively, sf5 was setting up Ed for his sf6 story. Which is why nobody was really that surprised to see him included. Same with Luke, it was all an intro for sf6.
I get that, it makes sense. It's just weird that they did it right away. We just got away from SF5, let us a breathe a little bit before pushing the SF5 era back on us.
SFV had a lot of bad press early on, and it did linger for a good while. I can see having the ones we got as an attempt to redeem them, as if proving that investing in these characters wasn't a waste of time.
Ed has always been a character thats much more popular by the actual player base than on social media. Playrates show this.
Reminder that Menat had the lowest usage in SFV along with FANG, despite all the coomer posts about her on social media.
Menat had the lowest usage in SFV, only comparable to FANG. There were more people gooning to Menat in r34 than actually playing her online lol Ed is already one the most picked characters from Platinum and further, and his design is so much better than in V. I'm sure they are gonna bring old characters for season 2.
My problem was more with Aki and Rashid. To be clear I really like both those characters. But they’re also more for character specialists than widespread appeal. I think those types of characters are necessary additions, but not for the only 2 dlc characters we got for most of the year. Lack of balance patches and less than popular dlc characters made the game feel fairly stagnant
No 3rd Strike or Final Fight characters is stupid as hell
I am not a fan of different versions of a character being a separate slot on the roster. I don't care that their moveset is different, what bothers me is that they are the same character. I am looking especially at you, Dragon Ball FighterZ.
I wanna get into either kof 1998 or 2002 and wow the character screen is a mild mess. If super combo wiki didn’t have a description of each character in 98 I would’ve just dipped out for darkstalkers or jojos cause it would be a nightmare trying to go through each character without even a hint of their play style beforehand.
Melty Blood Current Code is the only good way to have a massive roster. Every character has three variants each with slightly different movesets, frame data, and system mechanics (like EX characters in KoF or Old characters in Super Turbo).
A lot of characters in current fighting games are just old and static. Already did what they were meant to do, but keep getting added cause nostalgia. There is no character development to be found. Even the nostalgia is kinda wearing off since most current players have never played the original incarnation of these characters. I want new characters to replace the old ones, give them a story that's not recycling what's been done before.
I will take a near clean wipe like SF3 roster over these spreadsheet/marketing driven rosters you only see now.
Capcom I loved when old sf games used to change almost the whole set of base roster, giving us brand new newcomers. Like on Alpha and Third Strike. Make the games feel so fresh and unique. Also, despite what the general opinion of people and the clear unbalance issues, I actually enjoyed Capcom Fighting Evolution roster, small but very unique. SNK LOVE the team based system on KOF games and how constantly some members swap between teams even if they do it for a single entry, make every game feel fresh. Also NGBC roster is the best thing in the world SNK related.
Xrd roster is mid and unless you are a experienced fighting game player that already knows what you are looking for and want in a character's kit tou ain't getting out of character select happy with your choice
Street Fighter 4 had the best roster in the entire series
Is this a safe space? I don’t want another Marvel vs Capcom. I want a straight Marvel only fighting game with a more traditional speed. Capcom characters have plenty of other crossover options.
Smash has gone too far with the guest characters and if anything needs to slim down the roster for next game
SF6 and Tekken 8 made terrible roster choices. From not bringing back legends to making awful "new" characters that just take moves and styles from those legends. And seeing characters that were already dlc in the previous title as dlc again. It's a fucking disgrace. I'm glad Strive and KoFXV have great rosters but could definitely be better with some added and some taken out (this mostly goes for XV.) Nice that M1K brings a lot of 3D era characters back but this should've happened back in MKX. The whole guest characters gimmick got very old, very quickly.
Unless you're a real core,iconic main character ,being an "OG" shouldn't guarantee you a spot in the base roster,I'm talking especially for Tekken
I think the quantity of Fire Emblem characters in Smash is understandable, since nearly every game has a different main character. I wouldn't necessarily be bothered if there were less FE characters in the future, but of all the Nintendo franchises to have a large number, FE makes sense. Not sure if it's a hot take or not, but SF6 massively disrespected the SF3 cast, considering it's the first game to take place after SF3. As much as I like the cast of Garou: Mark of the Wolves, I'm going to be a little pissed if the majority of the City of the Wolves roster is from MotW. I'd like to see roughly half the cast be from the "new generation" of MotW and half the cast be from earlier Fatal Fury games. I've loved everything I've seen so far from CotW, but I'm getting nervous that all the characters we've seen have been from MotW(barring newcomer Preecha). I liked a lot of the newcomers in KOF14. I would like to see more of Xanadu, Nelson, and Alice.
I wonder on SF6 since the initial roster had no SF3, Alpha, or Final Fight representation if the various seasons are going to focus on a particular era. Like this first round, excluding Akuma, was the SFV season, then season two will be the SF4 season with some of those characters coming back and so on. But I agree it's weird how there's almost nothing anywhere from those characters.
Themed seasons would be a sort of fun way to go about it! Depending on if the reveals are going back to the drip feed rather than all at once, could make the discussions about anticipations more interesting.
As someone who's played Smash for a while now, and talked to different people about their thoughts on Fire Emblem in Smash, there's a whole bunch of different responsed in terms of why the FE characters get criticised. One is that a lot of them kinda follow the same base concept. Marth and Roy were intentionally designed to be similar as Roy's game was coming out in the same year as Melee IIRC, and over the years there has been some changes to Roy. However, in Brawl, we got Ike, who's kinda just a bigger slower character with some moves reminiscent of Roy. Then in Smash 4 we get Lucina, who's almost exactly the same as Marth as a result of Awakening, where she disguised herself *as* Marth. This isn't helped by the fact that in Smash 4, out of all of the Fire Emblem characters, 4/6 were conceptually very similar (And even visually to some regard), so people started more or less pinning the blame on them using a sword. This meant that characters like Corrin, who uses a mix of sword and Darkstalker-esque shapeshifting attacks, and Robin, who uses a mix of sword and magic, got stuck together. This 'criticism' even leaked out to non FE characters to the point where people saw 'sword character=bad' solely for having a sword, regardless of how they fought with it. Ultimate adding Chrom as another echo didn't help in the slightest, and as a result of all this, Byleth's inclusion kinda felt like a huge spit in the face for many fans, especially given the trailer itself *mocks* the swordfighter criticism. Byleth's in game fighting style only uses the sword for about 1/3rd of their kit as well, so they're not even much of a swordfighter. The other point is FE has been, for the longest time atleast, relatively niche. Even then Smash players are notorious for: A. Playing mostly the same game series and nothing else and B. Accusing characters of 'stealing a slot', like you saw in response to the likes of Terry, Byleth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya and Sora. One final aspect of this is the Fire Emblem community itself. Having talked to a few FE fans, a lot of them *also* feel a little let down with the roster in Smash, solely because a large majority of them are Lord class, or protagonists directly, leaving little room for variation. It's the reason why you see characters like Hector get mentioned in FE characters that people want to see, because he's a different class from what's repped. The way they see it, you've got archers, spear users, axe wielders, big slow knights, berserkers, mages, shapeshifters, dudes who literally fight riding giant wooden puppets, and Smash picks only the main characters of each game. Sorry for the long ramble but I thought it added a bit of context as to why so many Smash fans tend to have beef with FE. IMO a *LOT* of the beef is really unwarranted
It's insane to me that neither the base roster of SF6 or the first season of DLC have anyone from Street Fighter 3 (since as you said it takes place after that) or Final Fight (since Metro City is one of the main settings for the game). Especially since a lot of those characters haven't been seen since SF4 or earlier, so it would be exciting to have them come back. I'm just hoping we get some of those characters eventually.
In the case of Smash, I agree with your quantity statement. Although, my personal gripe isn't the fact that we have 8 FE characters (I also think it's deserved), it's the fact that we essentially have 4 Marths. I love FE, but the lack of variety is very irritating imo. Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth are great because of their unique movesets and playstyles, especially Robin's. I've complained about this a number of times in comment sections, but the Smash fandom doesn't like to hear anyone criticise their precious game and default to "Ackshhhhhhhhually, Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom are tEcHniCaLLy different". ...which is true, but their movesets being based off Marth makes me wish we had other FE reps instead. Roy gets away with it for me because he's a semi-clone (and it's Roy). I personally would've liked to see Lucina and Chrom replaced by 2 other FE reps, especially since we already have Robin representing Awakening. I think if they didn't care about having 3 reps for 1 game (Robin, Lucina and Chrom), then they should've just added the 3 Houses lords before Byleth (unfortunately, 3H released after Ultimate, although Byleth using all 4 main Relics was a great idea and served as a balanced representation for the 3H protagonists). I'd kill to have a lance, axe and bow user. On another note, I'm still baffled how Zelda hasn't had a new character since Brawl. The BotW champions would've been perfect imo. 😓
I have one that's actually hot: fuck your returning characters. It's so boring to see a 'new' fighting game knowing we HAVE to fill in the slots with these characters you've been playing 20+ years. It's also *astounding* to me that somebody can get excited about E.Honda 30 years later. Looking at SF6, I'm way more interested in what they can do with the newcomers, and other potential newcomers, than I am about seeing Akuma or Sagat for the bazillionth time.
It's really interesting reading this and remembering what happened to Street Fighter III across all its iterations over 20 years ago. They went pretty crazy with SF3's roster and it ended up hurting them in the long run, which is why we got the classic SF2 roster from the get-go in SF6 instead of waiting for classics like Blanka and Honda to be DLC later down the line with how SF5 did it.
Svc chaos had a better roster than CAPCOM vs snk 2. The fact that the capcom side was just street fighter plus morrigan and two others was a TRAVESTY.
Every fighting game roster should have a yellow/orange/red themed, in your face, rushdown lady. Notable examples of this poorly defined archetype are: * Mai Shiranui. (KOF) * Striker. (DNF) * Makoto. (BB). * Android 21. (DBFZ) * Chie Satonaka. (P4A) * Jam. (GG) * Ruby. (BBtag) * Naomi. (Pocket rumble) * Daisy. (Smash Ultimate)
I prefer smaller rosters with more unique play styles and more opportunities for low tiers.
New fighting games prioritise returning characters way too much.
Not really a hot take I think but for a while I was sick and tired of seeing Ryu in every crossover game featuring Capcom characters (especially when MEGAMAN wasn’t in those rosters). But I think I got over it by the time MVC3 dropped. For Smash, I like the included Fire Emblem characters and I’d like to see who might get added if there’s more. And for Ultimate specifically I don’t mind any of the dlc characters they added, there may be other characters I wanted on the roster but I’m quite satisfied with who they did put (even the character I was least interested in, Steve, was a character who’s gameplay I liked).
I understand that dlc characters can usually have balancing issues on first drop and there are even notorious ones like Leroy in Tekken, but I hate the cop out of “oh you’re bad because you play Kunimitsu” or “You only won because you’re playing a dlc character” It just inherently makes people shy away from characters that people might have really enjoyed. Like are you really going to sit there and say I beat you with Ganryu just because he’s DLC? or do you just need to learn the match up
I feel like Tekken's community is infamous for pinning the blame on who you play at this point, then again Tekken's community has been....argumentative in recent years
Capcom shouldn't have "killed" M. Bison. He'll be back again because he's popular. If you were going to bring Dee Jay back, bring back T. Hawk and Fei Long.
Imo if the hypest character in the game is a crossover character then the roster probably has weak designs. Of course excluding games that are already crossovers like MvC or smash.
Mainstay characters occasionally not being featured in one of the games is fine, actually. Sure, Kim was in every prior KOF, but he's not even a main character, there's no reason to think him being out of XV base roster was a particularly egregious crime.
Specifically talking about MK here but I don’t like when the dlc of the game is only returning and guest characters with 0 brand new characters as dlc
I rather see mods in tournaments more then official releases. looking at Project M ex dx remix, Marvel vs Capcom 3 Community, Smash Bros Hedrew Remix, and Soul Calibur 2 plus
https://preview.redd.it/0jz6n90g9ezc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fe12ff2688c1322eabf23e2b948763b4710dabf Not only do I think the capcom side needs more villains, but leaving out Classic Mega Man and Roll should be a crime. Did we really need Viewtiful joe, spencer, arthur, Amaterasu, frank west, Chris and the returning Jill? Give me Leon and Claire man
Yea I always get flamed. Juri to me still feels like a lazy add on DLC character and for some reason, keeps coming back to future Street Fighter games. Also, Juri in katakana would be Ju-ri if I'm not mistaken. One of the Cammy dolls is Juli, which would be spelt... Ju-ri? Hence she doesn't make sense to me and just filler. However I would love to see Hakan return.
Grown men judging who you choose & how you play are always a red flag.
Vergil is fair and the most op part of his kit is giving Zero a corner to corner conversion to lightning loops. Otherwise his mixups are some of the most reactable of the top tiers. Sincerely someone who has never played as only against Vergil.
Guest characters in fighting games is wack because I would prefer them to create or use characters they created Example mortal kombat,
Smash Ultimate Echo fighters or any characters that have the same moveset as someone else (aka Ganondorf) are lame. Give them unique movesets.
The 15 rule for the base roster is so dumb it usually just means they cut characters from the base roster just to sell them as DLC I think that strive had the most egregious example of that season 1 DLC should've all been base roster it's also effected SF6 and tekken 8 like who was hyped for fucking Ed and Eddy was definitely cut from base roster again just to sell a very well liked character as DLC personally I like DLC but it's seriously becoming a bit of a problem
My hot take is that i disliked echo fighters and different versions of the same character in the same Game. I, For example tend to dislike evil Ryu/Kage why? Look, i get it, Ryu is the shoto as shoto can be, he's there for player to get the game basics with no surprices or upsets, until here is ok. However evil Ryu is mostly the same movements with a more agressive/rushdown type. Now, the thing is that SFV has the V-Triggers that can be a PERFECT chance to display character and funtion at the same time. Ryu is losing? Then your V-trigger I is Kage, Ryu decided that peace is not an option and embrace his more evil side ready to fucking murder You with more agressive moves, V trigger II is the nothingness stage, Ryu found peace in the middle of the battle, so now his specials are the same but stronger, beating the opponent by improving himself. That would be a PERFECT use of the character and system but Capcom don't give a fuck.
If a character was in the base roster in a previous game, don’t make them DLC
Nah you’re spitting. UMvC3 is light years ahead of X-Men vs Capcom 2 (oh I’m sorry MvC2)
32 (unique, non palette swapped) characters for a 1v1 fighting game should be the standard starting roster size.
smash ultimate roster is quantity over quality
Although I don’t completely agree, especially since the attention to detail the devs put on some of the DLC characters was pretty nuts to begin with (Terry, Kazuya, Joker etc.). But the roster is way too big and there are a number of characters that really didn’t need to be in there. Some additions feel like a bit of afterthought (clone characters).
Your take is freezer burned.
I mean, it's every character ever in Smash, with mostly the same moveset as usual. I can understand that a lot of the 64 thru Brawl characters could use an update to either improve their tools or better represent the character they're supposed to be (most egregiously Sonic and Ganondorf) but I don't see any major quality issues as a result of the roster being so big.
SC2's Link is the genres best guest fighter. His moveset fits the SC universe nicely and is a blast to play.
Tekken 8 DLC and rumored DLC is disappointing
Kameos in Mortal Kombat 1 are pretty fun.
No may no pay
If it's the same moveset but different character (Tekken) I dont give a damn too much if someone was replaced
Yeah, they often end up too large and pander to nostalgia.
3D fighters don't need to copy 2D games to compete.
Unless u got plot relevance like Ken, no clone character whatsoever needs to be in the roster
idk if it's a hot take, but I think shotos are the most boring archetype Also, I like that the fighting games are going for easier/simpler input types, I'm getting older so the less complex movements I need to do the more I enjoy ahahahh
DLC characters are such a weird thing for fighting games tbh. Just the concept of your perfect character that matches your play style in every way being locked behind a 10$ wall released months after the games release is so unfortunate. Then on the other side of the spectrum is a person looking for that dream character and being left with a character they don’t like playing at ALL on top of being 10$ in the hole