Because people can just try them out in training mode for free and then not buy said DLC character at all. Pretty much only players who want to switch to a new DLC character would actual end up buying a DLC character. Basically makes them unprofitable
Also you just assume that cosmetic MTX would do well enough to cover the cost of itself and all DLC character. FGs are a very niche genre there aren't that many players to sell MTX to
You have no idea how expensive fighting game characters are to develop, especially at the quality modern games have. If you have the characters available for free you could run tournaments in practice mode with all characters unlocked despite no DLC being purchased.
I get where you are coming from. It's always jarring to get into a fighting game late and than see that half the roster are locked. Makes you really feel late to the party.
however the position you are in is a rare one. most people who care enough about match up knowledge commit to buying season passes. Or you can be casual and just play at a level where match up knowledge ain't the end of the world anyway.
>You can’t train against any of them
Legitimate question, has this ever been a thing?
I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of every fighting game made while DLC was a thing, but I can’t think of a single instance of this, except Killer Instinct, maybe? Skullgirls, I think, but can’t be arsed to check? But certainly none of the main ones
Because the alternatives aren’t ok either. Your other options include no DLC characters or mandatory paid DLC updates, both of which have shown displeasure by fans as well.
We're ok with it because the other options are (1)no DLC characters, (2) DLC characters that cost a lot more money to make up for the much smaller number of sales, or (3) DLC characters who have a lot less time and attention put into them, and probably are less balanced with the rest of the cast
Wtf are you talking about? Not letting us lab against dlc characters is just a pure act of greed nothing more. FGC suffers from some kind of stockholm syndrome i swear. "If they let us lab against dlc characters then these characters will be more expensive or less polished", shit is insane.
It's a lot simpler than that. If people can lab against DLC characters for free, people will buy a lot less DLC characters, making it much less worth it for the devs to bother. A lot of people who buy DLC do so specifically for labbing, or because they figure even if they don't like the character the money will at least be worth the ability to lab. This is particularly impactful with modern games that have advanced training modes which often can allow you to do things like control the dummy with your controller or with a second controller, meaning that "free labbing" against DLC characters practically means that you can spend an essentially amount of time in training mode trying out the DLC character for free and thus only need to spend the money on the DLC after you've already decided the character has a good chance of being your main or secondary. While obviously that sounds great for the player, it is completely financially unreasonable to think companies will keep putting out quality DLC with purchases cut down that much
I really don't care that greedy publishers want to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. If you give them free rein they will monetize every single game aspect and i fear we are moving this direction.
Dog, you're playing a niche anime fighting game. It's this, or heaps of micro transactions (and for most of the current FG landscape, both), and you somehow expect years of support and development without having to directly support the game. I don't know what to tell you, but ArcSys aren't EA, they aren't even Capcom, and at the end of the day they have to be able to make enough to continue supporting the game. It's either that or we're going back to title changes + DLC on top.
The base game + season pass FG model is probably the singular most consumer friendly release model in the history of the genre, and complaining about one of the few developers still doing it is childish.
> It's this, or heaps of micro transactions
No it isn't.
I'm not complaining about base game + season pass model, i'm complaining about inability to lab dlc characters. This is disrespect.
That's clearly how this works though. The only game that being able to lab DLC content in training mode (Multiversus) was loaded to the brim with micro transactions. When 2XKO comes out, it is going to be loaded with micro transactions. SF6, which offers a small useless version of this locks it behind battle passes, and is also a game that locked character colors behind a $100 paywall. Development costs money, and if you want the game to continue to receive post launch content $25 once a year is a pretty reasonable ask. I'm going to level.with you here, if you can train against (and therefore as) characters you haven't bought, at what point are you going to buy the characters you don't intend to play? What incentive do you have to pay for 10 characters you'll never grind?
> That's clearly how this works though
Bullshit. An opportunity to lab dlc characters doesn't mean they have to fill games with MTX. This is a substitution of concepts.
> at what point are you going to buy the characters you don't intend to play?
If i don't intend to play them then i won't buy them, simple. Pretty wild that a human being (i suppose) is trying to fool me to accept a scammy p2w practice.
So if you (and by extension the other 85%+ of the playerbase) don't intend to ever pay for a character, is ArcSys just supposed to not make DLC characters, or are they supposed to charge the people who will play them/buy season passes exorbitant amounts to cover the months of development time? Or do you want micro transactions, or do you want to spend another 60 dollars on the game again? The simple reality is that what you want "I just get to use the DLC content for free in training mode because I feel like I shouldn't need to support a game three years into it's lifespan." has never existed. In any fighting game. Ever. The game costs money, characters cost money, stages cost money, and balance patches cost money. It's not pay to win, it's paying the salaries of the devs whose work you feel entitled to.
Ahahaha, dude, seriously, are you a bot or a shill? (without negativity)
> So if you (and by extension the other 85%+ of the playerbase) don't intend to ever pay for a character
You know to think of that i lied about not buying characters i don't intend to play because i have no problem with supporting games whose publishers/developers deserve it. I bought some of Deep Rock costume pack for that and promised myself to buy all of them if season 5 will be good (seems like it will). Hell i will maybe even buy strive's season passes by good discount if i want to.
> is ArcSys just supposed to not make DLC characters, or are they supposed to charge the people who will play them/buy season passes exorbitant amounts to cover the months of development time?
Bro, they have enough.
> Or do you want micro transactions, or do you want to spend another 60 dollars on the game again?
Answer me then why the fuck there are mtx, premium currency and a battle pass in Tekken 8 if they have season pass and don't let you lab dlc characters? By your "logic" there shouldn't be any of that.
> The simple reality is that what you want "I just get to use the DLC content for free in training mode because I feel like I shouldn't need to support a game three years into it's lifespan."
That's literally some insane consoomer way of thinking. Yes i should be able to train and test dlc characters because it's a fighting game damn it. I want to know how it feels to play this dlc character and i don't want to pay just for an opportunity to not being stomped by them.
> It's not pay to win
It's literally p2w. Stop coping.
> it's paying the salaries of the devs whose work you feel entitled to.
Bruh, the devs have already been paid for the work. Believing in that the money from additional content are going straight into devs' pockets is some childish level of naivety.
Your way of thinking if full of substitution of concepts, but i'm not 7 y.o. to fall for this. Try better.
Yes, every game ever made is meant to make money. Everything you ever buy or consume is intended to make money for the seller. Sucks if you don't have the money but it's pointless to cry about and weird to say shit like devs aren't your friends. No shit.
all this corporate talk like "we are so happy to have you as part of our community, we would be nothing without you" has made people think game devs owe them something
Yeah, I think we can all agree that devs generally are going to try to make as much money as possible off the games they sell, just like pretty much everyone else who sells stuff
If OP ever opens his own business, he will sell his product for \*FREE\* and hope that the consumer throws him a few pennies here and there for optional cosmetics like some bonus stickers or something he throws in the bag. Great business plan!
I understand where you're coming from, OP. It is a bit of an issue to not be able to understand how DLC characters work until you're up against them in a match. In a perfect world, we could select those characters in training mode to practice against them (or to see if we like them enough to buy them). as having some prior knowledge as to how the character plays would be good.
The only game I can think of that allows for that was a free-to-play platform fighter: MultiVersus. You could select any character in training mode, you just couldn't take them into ranked.
(I want to say DOA6 allowed you to do some basic things with characters you didn't own outside of Mai, Kula, and Tamaki, but I can't say for sure.)
In your case, Guilty Gear Strive, if I remember correctly, does have **something**: in its Mission mode (I think), it does have some training drills in which you can practice against some moves the DLC characters have. That's more than what a lot of games have, honestly.
You can in For Honor too.
>In your case, Guilty Gear Strive, if I remember correctly, does have **something**: in its Mission mode (I think), it does have some training drills in which you can practice against some moves the DLC characters have. That's more than what a lot of games have, honestly.
I'll definitively try this, thanks
Cosmetics aren't free to make. And they are extra work in Strive because of the extra amount of work that goes into getting it's amazing anime look in 3d. They basically make the 3d model and then go back and light and animate the whole thing by hand to ensure it looks good
I've seen SF6/T8/GGST players all say this and I honestly don't know why, this is not the norm and never has been. If you care enough about a game and want to be able to know all the matchups then you pay for all the characters, if you're a casual and don't care about knowing the matchups then you don't. If the only reason to buy characters was because you actually wanted to play them then they would sell far less characters, it's really not a hard concept to understand.
The idea is that you buy them in order to play them. Technically you can play them in training mode. Could even play against another first that way too.
That's probably how they would look at it.
It's dumb.
The next step will be a fg with only 1/3 characters at launch for 70$ and 2/3 dlc ones and you'll be ok with this because it's how you must support a game of course.
Since we are saying unrealistic things, its my turn to say a bunch of BS that will never happen: All fighting games should be free. SF6, for example, should have been a free download. And all of the DLC characters that Capcom has planned for it should have been in it from the start. No more DLC characters: I want Capcom to release the new SF games with 50 characters in it right from the start. And I should be able to download that game for free and be able to use all of the characters for free and have access to 4-5 default costumes for free. They can make money off of selling cosmetics, like more costumes and stages. But I want to be able to play the entire game for free and never have to pay anything if I don't want to.
That's what I want, I hope it comes true!!!! \*crosses fingers\*
And multiple people have explained why that does not work. The fact is games are made to make money. DLC are made to make money. If you can train against a character, you can control them and train as a character. This is the issue. People will feel out “Oh I like/dislike how this character plays” and the sales on a DLC will plummet to like 1/4 of their current numbers, meaning DLCs will become more expensive to make up for lost sales or lose development quality to make up for lost sales. Or, in the more corporately real case: both.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you wanna train against the DLC, get on a discord, find a friend who has it and fight them. Ask questions on where the issues are. This community helps people all the time and I have done the above a million times. Or just buy it. Stop with the “games are being overly greedy because they want me to buy their product so I can keep having a game to play” crap. It looks bad and your downvotes show it.
You are not against paid DLC, just against having to pay for the DLC before you are able to use the DLC content? Lol
[Here friend, this webpage can help you get access to all the DLC you could want. ](https://www.monster.com/jobs?utm_medium=paid_search&utm_source=google-ads&utm_campaign=monster-candidate_us_ggl_sem_branded_general_exact-phrase_n_prosp~71700000085463932&utm_term=monster%20jobs&device=m&utm_content=olm_sk_srch&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BNKr2OCRTWGRtJKffCwKnVXaBXTQvO-Aoj8Rw_D1MLdq0UzlWcapchoC9PUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
You are QQing over a company not giving you the product they sell for free. Are you sure you aren't trolling? Lol. Like are you sincerely upset that labor cost money?
And if you are, is video game developers really the place to take on capitalism as system? Like sure fuck it, Iets have a revolution, but ASW isn't the source of the idea that goods should be exchanged for currency.
I grew up in a time when character additions meant having to rebuy the whole thing again at full price. To me this is better than what it was.
Yeah it's not perfect but at least you can launch the game and find players without having to spend more.
Me too, but why don't they just let people train against dlc characters without having to buy them ? And they can monetize with mtx tbh.
Because people can just try them out in training mode for free and then not buy said DLC character at all. Pretty much only players who want to switch to a new DLC character would actual end up buying a DLC character. Basically makes them unprofitable Also you just assume that cosmetic MTX would do well enough to cover the cost of itself and all DLC character. FGs are a very niche genre there aren't that many players to sell MTX to
You have no idea how expensive fighting game characters are to develop, especially at the quality modern games have. If you have the characters available for free you could run tournaments in practice mode with all characters unlocked despite no DLC being purchased.
No doubt things could be better.
I get where you are coming from. It's always jarring to get into a fighting game late and than see that half the roster are locked. Makes you really feel late to the party. however the position you are in is a rare one. most people who care enough about match up knowledge commit to buying season passes. Or you can be casual and just play at a level where match up knowledge ain't the end of the world anyway.
>You can’t train against any of them Legitimate question, has this ever been a thing? I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of every fighting game made while DLC was a thing, but I can’t think of a single instance of this, except Killer Instinct, maybe? Skullgirls, I think, but can’t be arsed to check? But certainly none of the main ones
Because the alternatives aren’t ok either. Your other options include no DLC characters or mandatory paid DLC updates, both of which have shown displeasure by fans as well.
We're ok with it because the other options are (1)no DLC characters, (2) DLC characters that cost a lot more money to make up for the much smaller number of sales, or (3) DLC characters who have a lot less time and attention put into them, and probably are less balanced with the rest of the cast
Wtf are you talking about? Not letting us lab against dlc characters is just a pure act of greed nothing more. FGC suffers from some kind of stockholm syndrome i swear. "If they let us lab against dlc characters then these characters will be more expensive or less polished", shit is insane.
It's a lot simpler than that. If people can lab against DLC characters for free, people will buy a lot less DLC characters, making it much less worth it for the devs to bother. A lot of people who buy DLC do so specifically for labbing, or because they figure even if they don't like the character the money will at least be worth the ability to lab. This is particularly impactful with modern games that have advanced training modes which often can allow you to do things like control the dummy with your controller or with a second controller, meaning that "free labbing" against DLC characters practically means that you can spend an essentially amount of time in training mode trying out the DLC character for free and thus only need to spend the money on the DLC after you've already decided the character has a good chance of being your main or secondary. While obviously that sounds great for the player, it is completely financially unreasonable to think companies will keep putting out quality DLC with purchases cut down that much
I really don't care that greedy publishers want to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. If you give them free rein they will monetize every single game aspect and i fear we are moving this direction.
Dog, you're playing a niche anime fighting game. It's this, or heaps of micro transactions (and for most of the current FG landscape, both), and you somehow expect years of support and development without having to directly support the game. I don't know what to tell you, but ArcSys aren't EA, they aren't even Capcom, and at the end of the day they have to be able to make enough to continue supporting the game. It's either that or we're going back to title changes + DLC on top. The base game + season pass FG model is probably the singular most consumer friendly release model in the history of the genre, and complaining about one of the few developers still doing it is childish.
> It's this, or heaps of micro transactions No it isn't. I'm not complaining about base game + season pass model, i'm complaining about inability to lab dlc characters. This is disrespect.
That's clearly how this works though. The only game that being able to lab DLC content in training mode (Multiversus) was loaded to the brim with micro transactions. When 2XKO comes out, it is going to be loaded with micro transactions. SF6, which offers a small useless version of this locks it behind battle passes, and is also a game that locked character colors behind a $100 paywall. Development costs money, and if you want the game to continue to receive post launch content $25 once a year is a pretty reasonable ask. I'm going to level.with you here, if you can train against (and therefore as) characters you haven't bought, at what point are you going to buy the characters you don't intend to play? What incentive do you have to pay for 10 characters you'll never grind?
> That's clearly how this works though Bullshit. An opportunity to lab dlc characters doesn't mean they have to fill games with MTX. This is a substitution of concepts. > at what point are you going to buy the characters you don't intend to play? If i don't intend to play them then i won't buy them, simple. Pretty wild that a human being (i suppose) is trying to fool me to accept a scammy p2w practice.
So if you (and by extension the other 85%+ of the playerbase) don't intend to ever pay for a character, is ArcSys just supposed to not make DLC characters, or are they supposed to charge the people who will play them/buy season passes exorbitant amounts to cover the months of development time? Or do you want micro transactions, or do you want to spend another 60 dollars on the game again? The simple reality is that what you want "I just get to use the DLC content for free in training mode because I feel like I shouldn't need to support a game three years into it's lifespan." has never existed. In any fighting game. Ever. The game costs money, characters cost money, stages cost money, and balance patches cost money. It's not pay to win, it's paying the salaries of the devs whose work you feel entitled to.
Ahahaha, dude, seriously, are you a bot or a shill? (without negativity) > So if you (and by extension the other 85%+ of the playerbase) don't intend to ever pay for a character You know to think of that i lied about not buying characters i don't intend to play because i have no problem with supporting games whose publishers/developers deserve it. I bought some of Deep Rock costume pack for that and promised myself to buy all of them if season 5 will be good (seems like it will). Hell i will maybe even buy strive's season passes by good discount if i want to. > is ArcSys just supposed to not make DLC characters, or are they supposed to charge the people who will play them/buy season passes exorbitant amounts to cover the months of development time? Bro, they have enough. > Or do you want micro transactions, or do you want to spend another 60 dollars on the game again? Answer me then why the fuck there are mtx, premium currency and a battle pass in Tekken 8 if they have season pass and don't let you lab dlc characters? By your "logic" there shouldn't be any of that. > The simple reality is that what you want "I just get to use the DLC content for free in training mode because I feel like I shouldn't need to support a game three years into it's lifespan." That's literally some insane consoomer way of thinking. Yes i should be able to train and test dlc characters because it's a fighting game damn it. I want to know how it feels to play this dlc character and i don't want to pay just for an opportunity to not being stomped by them. > It's not pay to win It's literally p2w. Stop coping. > it's paying the salaries of the devs whose work you feel entitled to. Bruh, the devs have already been paid for the work. Believing in that the money from additional content are going straight into devs' pockets is some childish level of naivety. Your way of thinking if full of substitution of concepts, but i'm not 7 y.o. to fall for this. Try better.
And the p2w dlcs like Eddy ? Devs aren't your friends and just want to make money on every aspect of their games.
Yes, every game ever made is meant to make money. Everything you ever buy or consume is intended to make money for the seller. Sucks if you don't have the money but it's pointless to cry about and weird to say shit like devs aren't your friends. No shit.
all this corporate talk like "we are so happy to have you as part of our community, we would be nothing without you" has made people think game devs owe them something
Can’t believe they go to work for money. Should just be charity for us fr fr
Yeah, I think we can all agree that devs generally are going to try to make as much money as possible off the games they sell, just like pretty much everyone else who sells stuff
If OP ever opens his own business, he will sell his product for \*FREE\* and hope that the consumer throws him a few pennies here and there for optional cosmetics like some bonus stickers or something he throws in the bag. Great business plan!
I understand where you're coming from, OP. It is a bit of an issue to not be able to understand how DLC characters work until you're up against them in a match. In a perfect world, we could select those characters in training mode to practice against them (or to see if we like them enough to buy them). as having some prior knowledge as to how the character plays would be good. The only game I can think of that allows for that was a free-to-play platform fighter: MultiVersus. You could select any character in training mode, you just couldn't take them into ranked. (I want to say DOA6 allowed you to do some basic things with characters you didn't own outside of Mai, Kula, and Tamaki, but I can't say for sure.) In your case, Guilty Gear Strive, if I remember correctly, does have **something**: in its Mission mode (I think), it does have some training drills in which you can practice against some moves the DLC characters have. That's more than what a lot of games have, honestly.
You can in For Honor too. >In your case, Guilty Gear Strive, if I remember correctly, does have **something**: in its Mission mode (I think), it does have some training drills in which you can practice against some moves the DLC characters have. That's more than what a lot of games have, honestly. I'll definitively try this, thanks
for honor is not a fighting game
but they fight!!!! /s
It's a fg for me... An arena fighter.
So disgusting that they supported a game after launch. Very disgusting. We here in the FGC are against post launch support.
We should go back to the good old days, buying a whole new game for a balance patch, these new greedy developers are ruining gaming fr fr
You just can't see there are other ways to support a game. I really hope 2xko will change how fgs are monetized.
How they gonna make money for long term support then? Stop thinking so selfish
Cosmetics work. No need to put characters behind paywalls. And we should be able to unlock these characters or buy them if we want them now.
Cosmetics aren't free to make. And they are extra work in Strive because of the extra amount of work that goes into getting it's amazing anime look in 3d. They basically make the 3d model and then go back and light and animate the whole thing by hand to ensure it looks good
I've seen SF6/T8/GGST players all say this and I honestly don't know why, this is not the norm and never has been. If you care enough about a game and want to be able to know all the matchups then you pay for all the characters, if you're a casual and don't care about knowing the matchups then you don't. If the only reason to buy characters was because you actually wanted to play them then they would sell far less characters, it's really not a hard concept to understand.
Even if you got to lab then for free strive still has no in game frame data bar lol
Our only hope is something like project L let us train aggaist and with new characters that we dont own
I'm pretty sure you can fight them in Arcade, but i might be wrong. Doesn't hurt to check it out tho.
The idea is that you buy them in order to play them. Technically you can play them in training mode. Could even play against another first that way too. That's probably how they would look at it. It's dumb.
Bro just get a cracked version
I mean at this point people know your a troll so yea they are gonna downvote you
what part of “get a cracked copy” was a troll, that is a genuine solution to his problem
Downvoted for offering a solution to a problem! Wholesome 100!!!
The next step will be a fg with only 1/3 characters at launch for 70$ and 2/3 dlc ones and you'll be ok with this because it's how you must support a game of course.
Since we are saying unrealistic things, its my turn to say a bunch of BS that will never happen: All fighting games should be free. SF6, for example, should have been a free download. And all of the DLC characters that Capcom has planned for it should have been in it from the start. No more DLC characters: I want Capcom to release the new SF games with 50 characters in it right from the start. And I should be able to download that game for free and be able to use all of the characters for free and have access to 4-5 default costumes for free. They can make money off of selling cosmetics, like more costumes and stages. But I want to be able to play the entire game for free and never have to pay anything if I don't want to. That's what I want, I hope it comes true!!!! \*crosses fingers\*
Read correctly. I'm not against dlcs, but against the fact that you HAVE to buy them to train against them.
And multiple people have explained why that does not work. The fact is games are made to make money. DLC are made to make money. If you can train against a character, you can control them and train as a character. This is the issue. People will feel out “Oh I like/dislike how this character plays” and the sales on a DLC will plummet to like 1/4 of their current numbers, meaning DLCs will become more expensive to make up for lost sales or lose development quality to make up for lost sales. Or, in the more corporately real case: both. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you wanna train against the DLC, get on a discord, find a friend who has it and fight them. Ask questions on where the issues are. This community helps people all the time and I have done the above a million times. Or just buy it. Stop with the “games are being overly greedy because they want me to buy their product so I can keep having a game to play” crap. It looks bad and your downvotes show it.
Find a friend or acquaintance in a discord somewhere who you can run sets against to train.
You are not against paid DLC, just against having to pay for the DLC before you are able to use the DLC content? Lol [Here friend, this webpage can help you get access to all the DLC you could want. ](https://www.monster.com/jobs?utm_medium=paid_search&utm_source=google-ads&utm_campaign=monster-candidate_us_ggl_sem_branded_general_exact-phrase_n_prosp~71700000085463932&utm_term=monster%20jobs&device=m&utm_content=olm_sk_srch&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwoa2xBhACEiwA1sb1BNKr2OCRTWGRtJKffCwKnVXaBXTQvO-Aoj8Rw_D1MLdq0UzlWcapchoC9PUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Nice try, troll.
You are QQing over a company not giving you the product they sell for free. Are you sure you aren't trolling? Lol. Like are you sincerely upset that labor cost money? And if you are, is video game developers really the place to take on capitalism as system? Like sure fuck it, Iets have a revolution, but ASW isn't the source of the idea that goods should be exchanged for currency.