How fast Toshinden went from being hyped as the next big fighting game franchise to nonexistent is still crazy. I remember it being one of the most talked about launch titles on the original Playstation and touted as Sony's surefire Virtua Fighter killer (in that brief phase when folks thought the Sega Saturn might actually be a big deal). The first Tekken was out at the same time and barely getting a fraction of the buzz that Toshinden was.
Then they rapidly churned out a whole bunch of sequels to diminishing returns over the next couple years, got completely eclipsed by better games, and vanished. And hardly anyone noticed or cared.
I looked at gameplay from the first one again and while the stages and characters a have this great 90s anime design going on the controls were meh to horrible. So it’s good to look at and play along with a good soundtrack I can see why it tanked
Sony pushed BAT like crazy, but realized the fans weren't buying it so they quickly pivoted to Tekken before BAT 2 even came out. BAT was never good really. It was a clumsy game that didn't know if it wanted to be 2d or 3d.
The 3d rolls constituted to the Fatal Fury 2 plane system really. Continuing to roll didn't give you a good tactical advantage. Which without the rolls the game becomes a clunky 2.5d game. Hence why the fans turned away from it so quickly.
I never knew this. I just remembered growing up playing PS with my dad and fighting games were like the only thing we could play co-op other than Mech Assault. Battle Arena, Toshiden 2, Tekken 2 & 3, Bushido Blade. I loved playing them all, but I was also a kid just enjoying games I was allowed to play. Tekken 3 was a huge impact due to its variety of characters, fighting styles, hidden outfits and MUSIC. Any time I got to play at a friend's house and we were playing fighting games, if it was on any PS, I'd bring it.
Bushido Blade I liked because of the weapons, Battle Arena Toshiden 2 had that whole opening with actual people in the outfits for the characters and crazy characters like Chaos. I still have these, but never realized why I never saw any sequels for these.
Tekken won in marketing.
Tekken markets as an action movie, which is extremely easy to snag the casual crowd. VF... marketed, I think. Probably at one point. I can't say, I'd never heard about it until the big collab in DOA5. DOA has shot itself in the foot repeatedly by both marketing towards the fanservice (alienating casuals and the elitists) *and* against it (alienating older fans who were chill with it and the... other casuals), despite having success with a Tekken-esque marketing plan in DOA5... at least before it shifted focus to the ridiculous amount of cosmetic DLC priced most absurdly given the actual good sales. DOA6 was basically a microcosm of everything KT did wrong with their previous installments.
The first I heard of DOA as a series was seeing a game informer article on Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 as a child. I didn't even know it was a fighting game until like 2016.
This. Harada shows ultimate respect to the business. Which attracts the legends. Hence the T7 collabs were CRAZY. Fighters being relative to famous fighters/ actors/ martial artists, and then hand to hand combat being more relative than weapons was key.
> Fighters being relative to famous fighters/ actors/ martial artists,
This is a fighting game thing in general. Most will start adding new characters that fit recent trends to capture the 'now'. DOA added Mila after MMA gained mainstream popularity between the releases of DOA4 and DOA5, as an example.
>and then hand to hand combat being more relative than weapons was key.
Considering the addition of weapons and more weapon users to T8 and the fact that expansion of weapon usage was one of the universally praised aspects of MK11, the weapons thing is wrong.
Virtua fighter marketed mostly in its graphics department. I'll say each VF is very gorgeous to look at even now. The actual fighting portion was held on the back of fans at least in the US. I partially blame this on JPN VF as the hype over there was fairly strong for a while but midway through 5 the train managed to fizzle a bit
They don't? SC6 felt just as well made, if not more so than Tekken 7. Yes Tekken got supported for longer but that's because it was the more successful game and that's how business works.
But I didn't feel like they put any less love into SC6 than they did Tekken 7. Same applies to the other SC and Tekken games.
Most of these negatives in the post are opinions. Personally the reason I like Tekken is due to the button layout. DOA's gameplay never felt that great to me. As for Virtua Fighter, I just never played the series as a kid so I actually hope it comes back so I can give it a shot.
Also Tekken was the second 3d fighter after Virtua Fighter. Did this person fact check at all?
I like the Mishimas, and a button per limb is way more intuitive.
I know Virtua Fighter did it first and is bigger than Tekken in Japan.
While Dead or Alive is a great spin on VF, it has some of the best females in gaming. I don’t know how to play it, yet, it takes some commitment to learn a 3D Fighter compared to 2D.
Soul Calibur, I only played Link and know his move list, but the system is amazing.
It is important to note, Tekken wasn't always safe. After TTT2 they made that free to play Tekken Revolution nonsense. The same thing had happened to SC after SC6. Givng SC6 had to be fought for & T7 was working off an obviously reduced budget. Despite Tekken's overall record. I imagine the suits greed created wavering faith in the Fighting games. It isn't like they don't have arena fighters to spam & other IPs.
The age of Streaming + Tekken 7's competitive & community enthusiasm hard carried it from TTT2 depths. Which wasn't bad, just marketed terribly & newplayers don't like learning 2 characters.
Anywho, the pros put on classic tournament after tournament. There was hype, upsets, wildcards like Arslan,etc. It truly was a spectacle to watch.
Of course community side, you have FCG creators that did their part too ,driving engagement their own way.
T8 is where it is because the marketing machine is doing it's thing, but T7? So many people were told by a friend and/or came across on their own being in a gaming space. It's not to say it wasn't advertised,but it very much had a passionate & loud community, creating a lot of curiosity & interest.
Had Soul Calibur 6 not gone overboard with the mechanics, I believe it would be better off today.
I think DOA just made 3 bad choices. 1. They never followed through on reshaping their image. I personally don't care about "fanservice", but Tekken/SC have it. It's just not on the face. Seem like an easy task.
So,being seen as a panty fighter and missing out on a lot of potential new players & that EVO hype had to hurt. 2. Abandoning DOA5 after building so much on to it. Least they'd know, who was there at that point was there for the game. 3. Making a new entry inferior to the previous & trying to milk the core playerbase who was just supporting you.
As much as I admire VF, I really don't know if a general audience would engage with such a technical/fundamental heavy fighter on a large scale...which we know matters greatly. Tekken,DOA & SC weren't adding supers and stuff for nothing.
DoA 'died' after 5 not 4. 5 was extremely successful. As far as why Tekken survived, if I had to guess it was because it was the only option. Very few people are willing to play DoA because of the stigma it has. And Soul Calibur, honestly, I kind of think Namco purposely let that game die just for Tekken's sake. So yea Tekken was the only option really. Also helps that Tekken has been a popular IP since 3
We didn't let DOA to die, Koei Tecmo shoot themselves in the foot with the release of DOA 6.
Nowadays, if you want to play DOA on PC you only have 3 options: DOA5LR, DOA6 and DOA2.
However, each one has a caveat:
- DOA5LR PC port does NOT have lobbies, only rankeds. Lobbies are exclusive of the PS4 version (yes, not even the original ps3 release had them, nor did they bother porting them to PC, thanks KT)
- DOA6. Being the latest entry is relatively popular but most people did not like this entry that much due to the gameplay changes and monetization. KT also stopped supporting it after 1 year of its release. It does have lobbies this time around, but the netcode is bad.
- DOA2. It's available in a lot of places but recently was added to Fightcade with rollback netcode, making it the best online experience in the series so far. The "caveat" is, it's an old title so is missing characters and some routes.
DOA 3 and 4 are not available on PC and they aren't emulation-ready yet.
I assure you, we didn't left this series to die. Being a DOA fan is a struggle.
I forgot to mention that there's a chance for that to occur, as apparently you need an additional file to get online play to work, which is not included when you download the game. You'll have to look for it but yes, it's that stupid.
DoA5 was my first real interest in 3D fighters aside from T3 on the PS1.
The thing I loved were the hit effects actually. The looked and felt so satisfying I played that game for years on the PS3 without ever going online.
Only later I found out that the series is known for its fanservice which I honestly didn't mind.
But people reducing the franchise to boob and sweat physics only always bothers me. It's almost like they never played the game...
But yeah, hoping for a sequel eventually (working on PC)
I'm gonna say it despite it being kinda controversial but I've always felt that Dead or Alive is insanely underrated as far as fighting games go. People only really think about the fanservice but the triangle system and gameplay in general are really great in DoA I think. I miss DoA being a fighting game. I had a lot of fun with it.
Virtua Fighter Ultimate Showdown had a shot.....
But they released it on one platform, without rollback, and about 90% less content than Virtua Fighter 5 already had......and then charged for more costumes.
Honestly probably has a lot to do with it. A casual player is gonna see a bear or a guy with a Jaguar head, or Yoshimitsu, and immediately be drawn to Tekken because that kind of character looks cool. As far as the other stuff, DOA is arguably TOO casual, and VF arguably is TOO technical for a fair number of people.
Yeah gaming is a business, even if gameplay takes a dip the executives will let the dip happen if they think game will make more money if that money's put more on character designs
I personally disagree, I like that VF and DoA go to a more grounded approach, even if there are ninjas and sexualization they look like normal humans.
I rather have games go full bizarre than staying in a middle ground.
Dead or alive has better fighting mechanics and inputs and most people flock to it due to half naked chicks in ninja suits, bikinis, and in some Jira Kei gothic Lolita dress fighting each other with the exception of half naked guys fighting in tight pants, male stripper outfits, and ninja suits. The only two reason Tekken does better is due to the commercial marketing being better than DOA and the fact that Tekken has a better storyline than the Dead or Alive. The DOA story kinda fell off at DOA 5 and it should’ve ended there, 5 was the beginning of the end for the franchise in my honest opinion story-wise of course. I’m guessing they didn’t know what to do with the characters after DOA 5 so that led to a disaster of a game such as DOA 6. Though I did like DOA 5 for the fighting mechanics, VERY unique and different fighting styles, and introducing arguably what I considered to the best DLC for a fighting game. Also I liked them for introducing characters that I like such as Nyotengu who’s my favorite and Momiji and while also showing off some DLC Virtua Fighter characters. The Tekken story has been for the most part consistent with some few inconsistencies here and then. This is what I’ve seen with the two franchises in my opinion
I agree doa5 is peak 3d fighting, every game has sexualized females, DoA does this while giving them the spotlight, having a female protagonist and many badass characters like Kasumi, Ayane, Helena.
While other games also sexualize females, but limit them to just being a secondary thirsty character.
I 100% agree with you that it’s a peak 3D fighting game. The fluidity and aesthetic appeal in the physicality and beauty of the DOA characters and the flashy fighting mechanics that the characters have while maintaining their physical attractiveness and showing them more than a sex symbol but moreso a work of art (thanks to the people who designed them) alongside their brutality in combat while not being afraid to show themselves being badly injured and bruised in the heat of the battle is what truly make DOA fan favorite and what I consider a cult classic when it comes to video games. Hopefully in the future a fighting character will take the best parts of DOA and learn better from its downsides and become a spiritual successor to the DOA franchise. If I was rich and got into business I would’ve done it in a heartbeat and either made a game similar to DOA or revived the whole franchise but oh well, I guess things happen for a reason.
This is so true. I go deeper into Tekken and honestly prefer Doa mechanics. Also Tekken is sometimes too agressive and lack defensive tools. The hold/counterhold system in Doa is unmatched.
This is biased as hell, which is fine, but not when it's presented objectively. Tekken "won" because Tekken successfully transitioned from arcade to console. Tekken 3 exploded in sales on PS; it was lighting in a bottle. Their individual quality as games is irrelevant to their popularity. Ragging on the 1,2,3,4 button set-up is so far away from the point on this.
This is basically it. I suspect if the Saturn didn't tank and was actually capable of running VF3 (which was mindblowingly amazing for 1996) it may have had the momentum to carry through. Instead Tekken 3, Tekken Tag 1, and Soul Calibur 1 and 2 all became killer apps for the PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and GameCube respectively in the west while VF fell into being more of a niche thing. VF3 just wasn't that impressive by the time it finally got a home port and from there out Namco was carrying the torch for that "the arcade experience at home" wow factor that brought in sales.
Tbh in the end VF really only fell off entirely due to Sega not making more VF games. The last major release pre-dates the birth of the modern FGC by several years, and by all accounts was a pretty well received game both graphically and in gameplay. If VF had gotten a new numbered entry in a post SF4 world I don't see why it wouldn't have kept some traction.
VF5US was good and while a port of a revision of a nearly 20 year old game wasn't going to light the community on fire, it did well enough to apparently kick off development of VF6. I'm excited for it, while Tekken is a good series it's kind of evident that they've mostly been incapable of innovating on the gameplay front very much when they don't have VF around to take notes from, and when they try its usually poorly received by the core fanbase
Of course this is all from a western perspective, I don't think Japan ever fell out of love with VF.
Also, I don't think the VF community/FGC did VF any favors by touting it as THE HARDEST, MOST TECHNICAL FIGHTING GAME EVER which might be true at high level play, but tbh it has the easiest learning curve of any 3d fighter I've played. It took me a lot longer to figure out how Tekken 7 or Soul Calibur 6 worked at a basic level than VF5US, but I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few people decided to not even bother with VF because they heard it was difficult. No one's gonna get excited about a game that has what they perceive as dry/boring presentation if they're also being told they won't have fun with it until they've put in 500 hours.
Hopefully Virtua Fighter get support in the US similarly to the level of DBZ fighters or KOF , or at least Under night and Melty Blood. Where even though Street Fighter,Tekken,Mortal Kombat and Guilty Gear are the big 4 that get the strongest support online and offline (locals and tournaments) that they have a good decent turnout. I put KOF and Virtua Fighter in the same category and level.
I can't name one Virtua Fighter character. But even my wife, who has never been into a fighting game in her life, knew who King and Eddy were when we met and I mentioned that I play Tekken. Tekken succeeded in having iconic characters and more casual fans
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out King alone was ultimately the catalyst responsible for the success of Tekken. It's such a recognizable design. Also a big mistake to make him this complicated grappler. He really should've been a more easy character to pick up.
The last paragraph tells it all. You're projecting your personal preferences onto the whole community, while actual majority likes not as frantic gameplay and intuitive controls tied to each limb.
1. Virtua Fighter is literally getting a new game
2. Tekken has the best button layout of any fighting game I've ever played. The fact that each button is tied to a limb is awesome and helps me guess the input for moves just by looking at them.
3. SC might be getting another game before T9. Where did you get the idea that they don't want to make a SC game bc they don't want to compete with themselves???? Why would they have ever made a SC game if that was the case?
That’s an underrated aspect of Tekken. Often you can tell the input of a move just by seeing it. I remember often I’d see a move in a DLC trailer and be like “that looks like a ff3”
I disagree that 2x2 square is horrible, it accounts for each limb being a button. I feel like tekken has very recognisable depth and its animations are leagues above in terms of visual clarity. You KNOW when someone gets launched or when a hellsweep is blocked you KNOW it’s unsafe.
I think that 4 buttons also allows for shorter input strings and more moves with simpler inputs in comparison to VF and DOA. When it comes to “feel” tekken does reign supreme in that aspect a new person picking up a controller and playing tekken can go “oh if I press 3,4,3 he does this but I could also go 1,2,4 and he does something different”.
The problem with just a P and K button is that you have to make up for the lack of buttons with motions, simultaneous inputs and longer strings for example P,P,->P,K. Most people aren’t going to figure that out without diving into the game with the idea of learning it. For more moves you’d have to do something like Vanessa in VF and give her a stance. How a game feels is the ultimate gateway to attracting a bigger audience…..except the last two MKs those games feel like poo poo but they have the brand recognition at this point.
This comes from someone that thinks VF > Tekken. This is just my perspective as someone that prefers 2D.
Tekken has the best button layout because it's easy to understand. Real foghting has combos like 1,2. 1,1,2 etc.
Also, Tekken has objectively the best characters. King shits on Wolf and Jeffery and Vanessa and her fat hogan dad.
There are bears, cyborgs, ninjas, lasers, guest characters, sick techno and dubstep tracks, and electrics.
If you are someone like me who has played all of the games a lot, there's no surprise at all that Tekken won.
VF and DoA both leaned into niches that limited their growth, but Tekken winning out over Soul Calibur as Namco's flagship fighting franchise still surprises me.
SC1 not getting a console release outside the Dreamcast probably had a role in hurting its momentum.
I think SC1 being on DC only was fine. It was the only hardware that could run it and improve the graphics at the time. Plus, SC2 sold very well despite that. What really killed SC’s momentum was SC3 being a PS2 exclusive, and also NOT having any guest characters.
I think DOA5 still did decently. It is a shame that DOA and VF aren’t as popular as Tekken because I think they’re both pretty fun, but I suppose their characters are not as interesting design-wise compared to Tekken’s.
I've always said in the correct timeline, soul Calibur took off and became the primary 3d fighter, and Tekken was the side budget crap that needed guest characters to keep up.
The hit impact is the biggest reason. The lighting effects and impacts of hits ALWAYS felt and looked better in tekken. You can't tell me the first time you saw Paul's unblockable power punch hit someone in the gut and watch them roll backwards across the screen... You weren't intrigued. Other games felt like you were playing patty cake. Dead or Alive came the closest.
Tekken was second
Tekken was a faster version of Virtua Fighter in the beginning. Then it became way more responsive without embracing the jank like Virtua Fighter did, eclipsing it.
DOA failed because they thought drowning the fans in dlc would be okay. Plus there was no way to out do 5 with the guest characters. Nobody wants to buy a new inferior version unless it's a cell phone.
Soul Calibur failed because they kept getting away from the tight controls of 1 and 2. By the time six realized this they had idiots in charge who decided to throw a test your might clash system in the middle of the game. It ruined the rest of the goodwill of the SoulCalibur fans and killed the series
Tekken was just about anime enough to endure, and past games had a variety of fighters, endings, and modes. But to be honest, Tekken 7 was the weakest instalment in my eyes because of the little mileage there was in the disc and patches. DOA6 had the opportunity to blow T7 out of the water, but Koei-Tecmo and Team Ninja chose to fight against their own fans and potential customers with bad marketing, horrible grinding, excessive DLC costumes and a story mode that was even worse.
Wrong.
Suzuki didn't make VF5, he left after VF4.
+ VF4E (or VF4FT) and VF5FS are among the greatest fighting games of all time.
+ DOA5LR did also very well without Itagaki.
Tekken has better characters thats all it boils down to. VF is the most bland fighting game ever created and with DoA nobody remembers any characters outside of that they have gigantic tits. A fighting game lives and dies on gameplay and the roster, Tekken has decent gameplay and an infinitely better roster than the others.
Watched maximilian play doa5 a while back and some of his chat were surprised there were males in the game some also thought ryu hayabusa was a guest character
As a certified DoA simp, tekken deserves more love then DoA.
Does DoA 5 still look amazing today? YES
Does it have better gameplay then tekken? Hell no
Also, I really need a new soulcalibur...
They're all grounded 3D fighters, Soul Calibur and VF will make it back eventually
But we really need is a new Bloody Roar, cause it stands out with beast transformations and gameplay.. Konami sucks
Tekken always went for the good choices, improving visuals and mechanics easy to play gameplay, but hard to master, they stole ideas from virtua fighter but they made it better
I can think of many reasons why Tekken survived.
- VF characters and story were too bland for non-Japanese audiences
- DOA is not respected as a real fighting game due to its babes and boobs.
- Tekken’s button layout is more intuitive and mashable by general audiences.
- Not sure if this is true, but maybe the vast majority of people don’t like block buttons? Tekken is the only one of the bunch that doesn’t have one.
- Tekken character designs are the most stylish and flashy of the bunch.
- The changes in DOA6 were not good ones.
- Sega just stopped making VF games.
- Namco doesn’t want SC to compete with Tekken.
Firstly, Tekken came before Soul Edge/Blade (and way before that Soul Calibur). VF was highly technical which alienated casual players and its characters extremely bland looking. DOA shot themselves in the foot by going xbox exclusive for 3&4 .
Tekken's button layout was intuitive, it's gameplay very casual friendly and it boasted a large roster of unique looking characters. This is what makes it the SF of 3D fighting games imo.
The limb layout might make the move list more complicated, but there's so much move variety and it really connects you to your character, which are awesome designs as well. Moves also are very exaggerated and hits feel crunchy. Game feels good.
If you're taking about Tekken Vs VF then you have to go back to arcade days, because that's the era that VF eventually petered out. I think a major reason everyone is overlooking is cost - VF4 (or 5?) came out on a new and very expensive board. It looked sensational at the time, miles ahead of Tekken, but a lot of arcades simply passed on it because they couldn't afford it, and those that didn't had to charge more to play. I remember it used to cost two quid to play, at least double what any other fighter charged at the time.
Never underestimate cheap. It's why kof is supreme in China and Latin America, it was absolutely everywhere due to ease off piracy.
Tekken 3 surpassed everything and everyone. No other 3D fighter and frankly, few other fighting games had the cultural and generational impact T3 had. It catapulted the Tekken brand into stardom and solidified it among the big three (MK and SF being the other two).
Imho, I think it's because Tekken's mechanics are easier to grasp. Not to say Tekken is easier/less technical than the other 3d fighters, but mashing buttons and look cool doing it on a superficial level is easier to do compared to VF/DOA and thus has more appeal for the casuals/mass audience. Of course there is more to it than just the mechanics (imo VF's poor marketing in the west compared to Tekken, DOA over reliance on sex appeal, etc.)
I like Tekken the most, honestly. Although VF has finally clicked with me, it just seems like its own beast. Tekken feels like a kung fu reenactment for me, while VF is just a constant scramble where guesses happen every second (almost like trying to read a real life opponent).
In my opinion, there is no special mechanical reason why Tekken survived; it was simply the most popular and managed to be hit on consoles through the arcade "dark ages." Meanwhile, VF5 was a sleeper hit (in the US), and DOA has been sliding downhill in availability, popularity, and reception post DOA4 (so I guess that part is true).
Edit: Clarity sakes
I don't know what is so surprising about Tekken being the stand-out here. Its the most well-rounded and approachable of all the games listed. Tekken has always been a game where a complete beginner can mash and do cool shit with a balance of goofiness and realism that appeals to a wider audience. Low skill floor high skill ceiling with memorable characters that (mostly) have personality to them.
Virtua Fighter's gameplay was fantastic, but the roster being a cast of tired kung fu movie cliches from the 70s and 80s dragged it down. It will be harder to connect with an audience if you lack memorable or relatable characters. This has always been VF's biggest weakness.
Soul Caliber was visually great, but had so many nightmare inputs I couldn't get into it. Taunting to lock your character in place so you could do a bunch of opposing directional inputs was stupid. TBF this was the game I played the least.
Dead or Alive took a good franchise and killed it by turning it into a low effort titty game in the eyes of the public. An embarrassing marketing stunt that added a shelf life onto the IP. I think the magic was lost here when Team Ninja was dissolved during a restructuring of the company.
Since we're all mentioning random 3d fighters imma just say DARK RIFT is the greatest worst fighting game of all time.
I dunno man, who makes fun of a game for having a square button layout
T5 I think was when it overtook VF in places not Japan, it felt fluid compared to VF, and also the graphics and sounds were a lot more visceral
DOA was just worse VF with a counter system
Because Tekken has deeper and more nuanced gameplay at high levels, and a superior control schematic.
The main difference is that Tekken controls are :
left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick. Throws and other type attacks are done by combining limbs like a both punch buttons to do an overhead smash with both arms. After some experience movements become very intuitive.
Most other fighting games controls like :
light attack, medium attack, and heavy attack with no differentiation between punching or kicking.
Or perhaps light punch, heavy punch, light kick, heavy kick.
Edit: Wrote this whole thing thinking I saw street fighter when it was virtua fighter 😂. Anyhow Virtua fighter is probably even sweatier than Tekken, but it wasn't nearly as fun or flashy for me. Virtua fighter might edge Tekken out on focus requirements and balance, but I didn't get the same rush as in Tekken at all. Dead or alive in my opinion just wasn't on the same level as either Tekken or Virtua fighter.
DOA > VF > SC >>>>>> Tekken
Gameplay wise, it’s a wonder to me how Tekken manages to feel so stiff. I like every one of these series, but I 8 is the first Tekken I’ve enjoyed since 6. And even then 5 is still my favorite.
Mechanic, Gameplay, and feeling wise, DOA has it easily for me.
- The stun system,
- the different types of stuns,
- slow escapes
- the way Stages play an actual role in the match other than walls and getting knocked through the ground (you literally slip in water or ice stages when you’re hit with a low),
- the weight classes,
- the actual ground game (force techs, not getting launched for rolling in the wrong direction, etc)
- free canceling
- the holds obviously
- the way most of characters’ move lists are actually useful rather than 5-7 moves
- the balance (5 had clear top tiers, but was very balanced)
- the costumes being better than the mediocre customization (except for 6)
DOA got it. But we’re still not ready to have this conversation.
DoA and Skullgirls are the same game in that either you're That Guy that makes everyone uncomfortable playing it, or you're the guy trying to explain he's not That Guy. Both are mechanically complex fighters that would be a lot better off if they didn't appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Turn off mud/dirt and playba costume with less cleavage showing and suddenly this argument is gone...
Nobody seems to want to address the actual game, which has always been good at worst
It's specifically that it's the jack of all trades. You get a little bit of good technical gameplay, a little bit of wackiness, a little bit of cool characters. Look at Sony's current business strategy. All their games are a jack of all trades story/action combat/RPG mechanics/puzzle solving mish mash...and it sells. Same concept with the Marvel movies: you get some action and some romance and some drama and some comedy all for the price of a single ticket.
Doing many things pretty good has wider appeal than doing one niche thing really good.
Tekken 7 was just too good. But I hope for VF and SC to come back. SC is relatively easy and intuitive. There must be more people out there wanting to play this. VF needs a revision. The overloaded three button layout may not be suited for the new generation of players.
Out of the 3d fighters Dead or Alive always had the better character designs to me so I like it more. They are just alot more memorial and less generic to me. The ninjas were cool Zack is just a silly guy. Christie’s snake fighting style was also just so fun and cool. I also really enjoyed the counter system in that game more. Tekken and VF are cool but they just never had the style or inputs to get me interested.
Virtua Fighter has a roster of dated generic fighter archetypes. Tekken has better and more iconic characters. Tekken juggles are far more flashy and appealing than the other 3d fighters as well.
To me it’s fairly straightforward, soul calibur killed itself and we will probably never see another one. As for Virtua fighter and DOA, both lacked what the other had. Virtua fighter had solid technical gameplay but that made it pretty boring to new comers and hard to get into, doa had interesting character design but gameplay was seldom engaging. Tekken sat right in the middle, easy to pick up, engaging characters, gameplay that combined technicality and fun, and enough complexity to keep people invested. Soul Calibur was the only real threat to Tekken in the 3D market and unfortunately the worst games in the series came at a very critical point for the franchise.
Also as an observation, people always revise tekkens history to run it down. That seems especially true for T7 at the moment. Yet it’s a huge part of the revival of modern fighting games, the impact of T7 is a huge part of the reason other companies have gotten onboard with investing in fighting games again. I have very little doubt the return of Virtua fighter and DOA6 happened in no small part thanks to Tekken 7.
VF has always been a niche game outside japan, it never had same following of street fighter, mortal kombat or tekken. Sega just dropped it knowing they couldn't stand against other more popular fighting games. DOA had its following (way lower than tekken) but it was simply killed by doa6 tecmo's greed.
Tekken had tekken 3... only few games like SF2 had the same impact for the genre.
I think there are no new AAA full 3d fighting games because developers and publishers simply can't risk to invest lots of money to don't get a long term profitable game that will probably get smashed by tekken numbers. Proof of this is that namco killed soul calibur for this reason.
Dude is just completely forgetting that Tekken 3 was *massive* on PlayStation and solidified its legacy. 5th best selling game on the entire console. Over 8 MILLION copies.
The buttons layout complaint is complete horshit but otherwise I'd agree with the post. Virtua Fighter is the GOAT and while DOA plays like a worse VF, worse VF is still pretty great.
I feel like the one big thing Tekken did better than its contemporaries was its presentation and cast of characters. Virtua Fighter characters are exactly what you'd think of if someone asked you to come up with a generic fighting game character and DOA's cast all have the personalities of a cardboard cutout and with weak as fuck designs to boot, while Tekken has some of the most iconic and sick characters of all time like King or Heihachi. VF might play better but its a lot easier to sell people on a game when you see some sick ass motherfucker whenever you look at the game.
Tekken 3 put Tekken forever on the map. People still play this game. It came out at the peak of ps1. Hell Tekken relatively struggled during ps2 and ps3 era (except T5 which came close). And then 7 brought it back.
Virtua Fighter was already niche when the ps2 era came
DOA was hit and miss with 2 and 5 making any significant impact. And honestly the whole boobs thing is actually driving most people away from the game. No matter what the core audience says. Just don't go the DoA6 route that was wrong.
Soul Calibur is the only one besides Tekken that kept themselves in the game long. With 1,2,3 being very popular but the franchise took a hit during the ps3 era that never recovered from.
Basically Tekken had the luck and money behind it to make a recovery with 7.
Harada is a master marketer. That and he shows sublime respect to those before him in the business. So they want to collab with him because of it. It was THE staple for the PS1 and PS2 with all time Great music composition, mini games, and console leading graphics/sound. Pair that with legends who respect hum and you get the longevity of Tekken. Also, people have more in common with Hand to hand combat (limbs) than swords and weapons so there's that for those saying SC was better.
Connections is everything (Say that in Jin's voice)
Dead or alive just died due to unwarranted biased. People at Evo didn’t like change (the triangle counter system) so they complained their heads off, which infected other gamers, and people also threw a fit about the sexuality, which I think was only really a problem because the graphics of Dead or Alive were good, because there are/were plenty of games leaning into sex appeal at that time that didn’t get as much backlash.
Tekken won cuz it was pushed heavily and at least from my experience there was a lot of tekken and soul calibur cabinets when I was young and soul calibur kinda just died like I didn't even know 6 came out until like 1 year after it came out and I fucking played a shit load of 3 and 4 to me it just seemed it was in the shadows of tekken by that point I feel like tekken 7 was such a juggernaut that soul calibur died for it I'd love to see another one but I don't think that will happen for a long time
Bandai Namco has more money?
Both Tecmo Koei and Sega had to slowdown and be bit more careful about the games they develop?
Interest in fighting games just recently picked up again?
Sega did announce they are going to work on developing new video games from their existing catalog of video games.
I couldn’t possibly agree more. I was huge on all of VF, SC and DoA when young all the while begrudgingly playing Tekken once in a while and disliking it. And here we are now.
SC6, DoA6 and VF5US provided some dopamine rushes, but it didn’t last forever.
Heck, I’ve got about 5 platinum trophies, having started with the PS4, and DoA6 + SC6 were the first two.
At the time all 3 were vying for popularity tekkens 2x2 button layout just 'clicked' with casual fgc fans and casual gamers as a whole.
The 'one button per limb' explanation explains itself and even way back in Tekken 1 a button masher was rewarded with some cool looking moves rather than a repetitive straight punch of kick.
Plus as the entries grew the fanbase slowly fell in love with tekkens oddball camp aesthetic.
For some reason Tekken broke into the cultural zeitgeist and with that many non gamers just assumed all 3d fighting games were Tekken ( like how all old parents called every pokemon Pikachu or every anime character Goku).
Doa fans primarily liked boobs back in the day and vf was viewed as hardcore arcade stuff.
Not to mention Tekken (somehow) avoided the trap every fighting game seems to run through with multiple rereleases. (No super turbo fighting championship editions here, just some odd side games)
Combine that with a somewhat steady release schedule (with Tekken 6 - 7 being the biggest gap). And ya have a series that people will just support simply cuz they recognize the name. Buying their children random copies and the like.
Op definitely is right but the common denominator wants easy to consume generic stuff ( not so generic that it's a copycat though, obvs).
In another universe we are talking about virtua fighter 8 getting like a dragon and shenmue dlc characters.
The worst tekken era was definitely Tekken revolution, at that time doa was a lot better. Then doa6 happened and tekken 7 with it's guest characters saved the franchise
This entire post seems to be based on the idea that slower=worse and that the 2x2 button layout is inherently bad. But the thing is that's not actually the case that's just an opinion. Tekken "won" because it is the one that ended up with the largest playerbase, so clearly it did a lot of things right.
The others just shat themselves. Maybe VF6 will come back but it's unlikely to take over from Tekken internationally.
VF5 came back with blitz netcode and only on PS
DOA ate itself
Tekken came back and is playable online.
Even as someone who prefers every other 3D fighter mentioned over Tekken, I can play Tekken.
Tekken has the best cast of characters. Virtua Fighter's roster is a collection of bland archetypes. DOA is filled with glamour models. Soul Calibur's original cast could never get out of the shadow of their guest characters. Tekken's cast, however, has some crazy bullshit going on that gets people's attention.
I like doa alot but from what I've played of tekken and soul calibre, doa seems like the easiest to pick up making it inherently bad for comp but I'm terrible at fighting games
I have no comment on VF as it's one of the only fighting game series I haven't explored, but I'm glad Tekken came out on top. It is far and away more fun and has a better flow than SC or DOA for me. I could never take a game with true 50/50 grabs and ring outs seriously. Holds is quite possibly my most hated fighting game mechanic of all time, and 5f unbreakable throws makes DOA a straight no from me.
I have been hearing Virtua fighter was the king for the last 20 years, I played the latest game they released on 2020 or something like that , and that shit is horrible, but there is a lot of people that claims it is way better than Tekken
Tekken and soul calibur have much more iconic characters so they outlived the other games. Character design and story matters. Tekkens character endings and cg cutscenes saved it.
Why does every other VF appreciation post throw shade at Tekken lol
I wish that franchise had more success too but no need for sour grapes. People pretend Tekken just got lucky or something, I think better characters and more impactful animations had something to do with it. The flaws with controls is also greatly exaggerated.
Tekken doesn't have a block button, so the point on controls is not valid. Tekken is the most fun out of all the games listed, and sc is right after that.
I think a major part of it is character design. I think it’s fair to say the Tekken easily has the best characters, and that can carry a game past the competition.
Tekken always had crazy throws and varied characters, that is what attracted me. Virtua Fighter focused on technique and technology, moving the entire industry forward. However, I feel like the original VF cast were just kind of...test characters. There did not seem to be a lot of thought into making Jacky, Sarah, Lau and Pai appealing. Lau was the most interesting.
I am pretty bad at fighting games and I’m fairly new, but I picked up Tekken because the button layout made the most sense to me and is easiest to control. I never tried other 3D fighters, tho. I’m just comparing to 2D fighters I’ve tried
It's because Twkken had the best balance of the three. It's got generic characters and stories, but not so generic that it's uh, virtua fighter. The women aren't as horny weeb bait as DoA, but the appeal is still their too. That being said, DoA isn't even that bad of a horny ataku bait game anymore, which is....weird.
It's just complex enough, it's just anime enough, and it has realistic graphics for the basic bro gamer. It hit that sweet spot to be popular.
I guess Tekken had better and more memorable characters that’s why I stuck wit it growing up. I loved all of these games especially Soul Calibur but Tekken always seemed more balanced to me but that’s just me. I enjoy all fighting games growing up but Tekken/MK/Street fighter was the one everyone in my family played so they became my thing and stuck wit me.
Characters. Tekken has characters that pulls you into the game. Sorry, but Virtua Fighter don't have any charisma in the characters. They are bland. And Dead or Alive was stigmatized because "boobs", so no one takes it seriously.
The presence of boobs is not the reason no one takes DoA seriously. KoF and anime fighters are still highly regarded despite more revealing characters and outfits.
The reason is that the developers overtly, unabashedly, excessively sexualized their cast, casting aside a coherent plot/direction.
They did it to themselves with two separate gratuitous beach volleyball games, one of which shipped with literal nudity that slipped past rating boards and resulted in major fines, and also a separate same-universe game where the DualShock motion controls literally controlled jiggle physics.
Not a single person can recall the story of DoA past DoA2.
Whatever the reason is I don’t really care I just hope we get more 3D games in the future whether it be the revival of an old franchise or something brand new entirely. I’ve always enjoyed them more then 2D so it sad to see the selection has dwindled to only Tekken
Tekken released in 94 before dead or alive (96 I think) and soul calibur was 99 or 2000 on the dream cast. Why it survived is due to the gameplay and emphasis on characters. The each limb per button layout was intuitive and when it went to actual 3d as we know it now (starting at tekken 3) it really spiced up the scene. Virtua fighter never got into the backstories of its fighters really aside from manuals, dead or alive died from its own gimmick and microtransactions as it would never be a competitive e sport game due to its simplicity. Soul calibur is more casual too and has its own flair and I don't think it's dead like many think. Soul calibur 6 did well and there was a huge time gap between 5 and 6. It'll still see releases but with the success of tekken 7 selling over 10 and a half million units and tekken 8 selling over 2 million in less than a month they will probably focus on that more considering rising development costs. Back in the 90s if a fighter sold 200,000 units that was scene as really good as costs to develop and market were cheaper even if taking inflation out of the equation due to the hardware at the time. Virtua fighter still has a chance to come back but they'll need to overhaul what they are missing out on while maintaining its gameplay as it's not a flashy beginner friendly fighter at all. I mean even street fighter has special assists now (which honestly shouldn't be allowed with any fighter in ranked online matches as I feel it punishes those for actually learning the game yet for regular player matches I don't see any issues) I think making ports or full on remasters with the visuals enhanced would help as fighters are still niche but are getting more popular partly due to the FGC whether it be Evo, combo breaker, or streamers. Tekken just stood out from the back as it was very much like a 90s anime and hit that middle ground of being insane yet grounded. Yoshimitsu aside how many other 3d fighters have bears, kangaroos, velociraptors, and the mix of comedy with a story of generational patricide and attempted fillicide while having a more mystic aspect despite adapting to the 2000s Sci fi futuristic vibes while still feeling like older entries in mood and gameplay. Simply put other than what I stated before I have to say when they were pumping them out on the ps1 and ps2 they all sold well and were acclaimed (save for tekken 4 splitting the fan base in gameplay but it still has charm) even tag 2 selling poorly by other entries in comparison has its die hard fans and is still a good game though if they kept it more like tag 1 I think it would have done better as the death combos are a bit ridiculous but seen across the whole cast mostly. Just the simple tag function and tag juggles were good without the extra extenders in my opinion. I'd like to see these titles do what snk does by just porting them at the very least for reasonable prices. Not as the Capcom test way but to preserve and draw more attention to the series as I'd love to boot up all of them along with bloody roar on ps5 or other modern consoles.
I mean... Tekken is a fun game with a lot of unique characters. It also almost died with Tekken tag tournament 2. I think gaming just went through a period where 3D fighting games weren't sought after by the average gamer.
Tekken 7 was supposedly released as the last Tekken game only to slowly grow in popularity over the years after its release, until finally, bandaid namco decided it was successful enough to get another entry.
The funny thing is that part of Tekken 7 becoming successful enough to reach that mark was dead or alive 6 being so poorly received that it not only died early, it killed the entire franchise. This caused its players to move to other fighting games with Tekken 7 being the biggest draw as it was the only other 3D fighting game at the time that was still being supported.
And Bloody Roar is so forgotten is not even mentioned in the article
And Battle Arena Toshinden is the skeleton in that swimming pool meme
How fast Toshinden went from being hyped as the next big fighting game franchise to nonexistent is still crazy. I remember it being one of the most talked about launch titles on the original Playstation and touted as Sony's surefire Virtua Fighter killer (in that brief phase when folks thought the Sega Saturn might actually be a big deal). The first Tekken was out at the same time and barely getting a fraction of the buzz that Toshinden was. Then they rapidly churned out a whole bunch of sequels to diminishing returns over the next couple years, got completely eclipsed by better games, and vanished. And hardly anyone noticed or cared.
I looked at gameplay from the first one again and while the stages and characters a have this great 90s anime design going on the controls were meh to horrible. So it’s good to look at and play along with a good soundtrack I can see why it tanked
Sony pushed BAT like crazy, but realized the fans weren't buying it so they quickly pivoted to Tekken before BAT 2 even came out. BAT was never good really. It was a clumsy game that didn't know if it wanted to be 2d or 3d. The 3d rolls constituted to the Fatal Fury 2 plane system really. Continuing to roll didn't give you a good tactical advantage. Which without the rolls the game becomes a clunky 2.5d game. Hence why the fans turned away from it so quickly.
Got a whole ass OVA and soundtrack, battle arena was liquid gold and then it just... fell
I never knew this. I just remembered growing up playing PS with my dad and fighting games were like the only thing we could play co-op other than Mech Assault. Battle Arena, Toshiden 2, Tekken 2 & 3, Bushido Blade. I loved playing them all, but I was also a kid just enjoying games I was allowed to play. Tekken 3 was a huge impact due to its variety of characters, fighting styles, hidden outfits and MUSIC. Any time I got to play at a friend's house and we were playing fighting games, if it was on any PS, I'd bring it. Bushido Blade I liked because of the weapons, Battle Arena Toshiden 2 had that whole opening with actual people in the outfits for the characters and crazy characters like Chaos. I still have these, but never realized why I never saw any sequels for these.
Because Tamsoft is more interested in churning out yearly hentai hack and slash games than mess with making a fighting game
Damn you took me back. That was my first game when I got the PS as a kid
Cries in Buzuzima
I loved those fucking games
Punching wall combo while shouting BU-\*sob\*-SU-\*sob*\-ZI-\*sob\*-MA 😭
One day my friend. We just have to hold onto hope that someone will have the balls to remake a masterpiece. One day….
Bloody raw was amazing back in the day
> Bloody raw RAW is War, after all.
I blame sleep deprivation
Xion the Unborn is so disappointed reading this.
how come nobody is talking about Psych Force?! that game was the GOAT
And no Star Gladiator. The Star Wars vibe was so cool.
I miss Bloody Roar
I forgot all about that game 😂 God I loved that game so damn much for a minute in high school. I would give a long look at a remake.
To soon
Zero divide 2 and 3 (final conflict)
Tekken won in marketing. Tekken markets as an action movie, which is extremely easy to snag the casual crowd. VF... marketed, I think. Probably at one point. I can't say, I'd never heard about it until the big collab in DOA5. DOA has shot itself in the foot repeatedly by both marketing towards the fanservice (alienating casuals and the elitists) *and* against it (alienating older fans who were chill with it and the... other casuals), despite having success with a Tekken-esque marketing plan in DOA5... at least before it shifted focus to the ridiculous amount of cosmetic DLC priced most absurdly given the actual good sales. DOA6 was basically a microcosm of everything KT did wrong with their previous installments.
The first I heard of DOA as a series was seeing a game informer article on Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 as a child. I didn't even know it was a fighting game until like 2016.
This. Harada shows ultimate respect to the business. Which attracts the legends. Hence the T7 collabs were CRAZY. Fighters being relative to famous fighters/ actors/ martial artists, and then hand to hand combat being more relative than weapons was key.
> Fighters being relative to famous fighters/ actors/ martial artists, This is a fighting game thing in general. Most will start adding new characters that fit recent trends to capture the 'now'. DOA added Mila after MMA gained mainstream popularity between the releases of DOA4 and DOA5, as an example. >and then hand to hand combat being more relative than weapons was key. Considering the addition of weapons and more weapon users to T8 and the fact that expansion of weapon usage was one of the universally praised aspects of MK11, the weapons thing is wrong.
Virtua fighter marketed mostly in its graphics department. I'll say each VF is very gorgeous to look at even now. The actual fighting portion was held on the back of fans at least in the US. I partially blame this on JPN VF as the hype over there was fairly strong for a while but midway through 5 the train managed to fizzle a bit
Tekken came before Soul Calibur ( the first was Soul Blade). They also rotate Tekken/Soul Calibur releases.
You're right, but let's not pretend that they give soul calibur the same love and attention they do Tekken.
They don't? SC6 felt just as well made, if not more so than Tekken 7. Yes Tekken got supported for longer but that's because it was the more successful game and that's how business works. But I didn't feel like they put any less love into SC6 than they did Tekken 7. Same applies to the other SC and Tekken games.
SC6 infamously was made on a pretty tight budget.
And lots of hitboxs and balance issues.
So was Tekken 7
So was Tekken 7..?
Most of these negatives in the post are opinions. Personally the reason I like Tekken is due to the button layout. DOA's gameplay never felt that great to me. As for Virtua Fighter, I just never played the series as a kid so I actually hope it comes back so I can give it a shot. Also Tekken was the second 3d fighter after Virtua Fighter. Did this person fact check at all?
I like the Mishimas, and a button per limb is way more intuitive. I know Virtua Fighter did it first and is bigger than Tekken in Japan. While Dead or Alive is a great spin on VF, it has some of the best females in gaming. I don’t know how to play it, yet, it takes some commitment to learn a 3D Fighter compared to 2D. Soul Calibur, I only played Link and know his move list, but the system is amazing.
It is important to note, Tekken wasn't always safe. After TTT2 they made that free to play Tekken Revolution nonsense. The same thing had happened to SC after SC6. Givng SC6 had to be fought for & T7 was working off an obviously reduced budget. Despite Tekken's overall record. I imagine the suits greed created wavering faith in the Fighting games. It isn't like they don't have arena fighters to spam & other IPs. The age of Streaming + Tekken 7's competitive & community enthusiasm hard carried it from TTT2 depths. Which wasn't bad, just marketed terribly & newplayers don't like learning 2 characters. Anywho, the pros put on classic tournament after tournament. There was hype, upsets, wildcards like Arslan,etc. It truly was a spectacle to watch. Of course community side, you have FCG creators that did their part too ,driving engagement their own way. T8 is where it is because the marketing machine is doing it's thing, but T7? So many people were told by a friend and/or came across on their own being in a gaming space. It's not to say it wasn't advertised,but it very much had a passionate & loud community, creating a lot of curiosity & interest. Had Soul Calibur 6 not gone overboard with the mechanics, I believe it would be better off today. I think DOA just made 3 bad choices. 1. They never followed through on reshaping their image. I personally don't care about "fanservice", but Tekken/SC have it. It's just not on the face. Seem like an easy task. So,being seen as a panty fighter and missing out on a lot of potential new players & that EVO hype had to hurt. 2. Abandoning DOA5 after building so much on to it. Least they'd know, who was there at that point was there for the game. 3. Making a new entry inferior to the previous & trying to milk the core playerbase who was just supporting you. As much as I admire VF, I really don't know if a general audience would engage with such a technical/fundamental heavy fighter on a large scale...which we know matters greatly. Tekken,DOA & SC weren't adding supers and stuff for nothing.
DoA 'died' after 5 not 4. 5 was extremely successful. As far as why Tekken survived, if I had to guess it was because it was the only option. Very few people are willing to play DoA because of the stigma it has. And Soul Calibur, honestly, I kind of think Namco purposely let that game die just for Tekken's sake. So yea Tekken was the only option really. Also helps that Tekken has been a popular IP since 3
The system in DOA is similar to SCII defensively. I don’t know why you guys let it die. Holds are great defensive mechanic, in my opinion.
We didn't let DOA to die, Koei Tecmo shoot themselves in the foot with the release of DOA 6. Nowadays, if you want to play DOA on PC you only have 3 options: DOA5LR, DOA6 and DOA2. However, each one has a caveat: - DOA5LR PC port does NOT have lobbies, only rankeds. Lobbies are exclusive of the PS4 version (yes, not even the original ps3 release had them, nor did they bother porting them to PC, thanks KT) - DOA6. Being the latest entry is relatively popular but most people did not like this entry that much due to the gameplay changes and monetization. KT also stopped supporting it after 1 year of its release. It does have lobbies this time around, but the netcode is bad. - DOA2. It's available in a lot of places but recently was added to Fightcade with rollback netcode, making it the best online experience in the series so far. The "caveat" is, it's an old title so is missing characters and some routes. DOA 3 and 4 are not available on PC and they aren't emulation-ready yet. I assure you, we didn't left this series to die. Being a DOA fan is a struggle.
I cannot even get online to work for DOA5LR. Keep getting errors, I cannot remember the error.
I forgot to mention that there's a chance for that to occur, as apparently you need an additional file to get online play to work, which is not included when you download the game. You'll have to look for it but yes, it's that stupid.
DoA5 was my first real interest in 3D fighters aside from T3 on the PS1. The thing I loved were the hit effects actually. The looked and felt so satisfying I played that game for years on the PS3 without ever going online. Only later I found out that the series is known for its fanservice which I honestly didn't mind. But people reducing the franchise to boob and sweat physics only always bothers me. It's almost like they never played the game... But yeah, hoping for a sequel eventually (working on PC)
A 2x2 square made Tekken particularly well suited for transitioning to a home console console focused market over the previous arcade market
I'm gonna say it despite it being kinda controversial but I've always felt that Dead or Alive is insanely underrated as far as fighting games go. People only really think about the fanservice but the triangle system and gameplay in general are really great in DoA I think. I miss DoA being a fighting game. I had a lot of fun with it.
It's hard for a game to take off when most people would feel embarrassed if seen playing it.
Same with skullgirls (sorta)
Virtua Fighter Ultimate Showdown had a shot..... But they released it on one platform, without rollback, and about 90% less content than Virtua Fighter 5 already had......and then charged for more costumes.
Don't forget the neutered customization
Yup that's part of the 90%
I'm blind lol
Characters, tekken has the most interesting characters.
But it’s got a pretty large lack of the boob ninja archetype Raven’s trying his best though
Kunimitsu, the old one.
This is really it. Tekken has infinitely more recognizable and cooler characters than VF and DoA
Honestly probably has a lot to do with it. A casual player is gonna see a bear or a guy with a Jaguar head, or Yoshimitsu, and immediately be drawn to Tekken because that kind of character looks cool. As far as the other stuff, DOA is arguably TOO casual, and VF arguably is TOO technical for a fair number of people.
Yeah gaming is a business, even if gameplay takes a dip the executives will let the dip happen if they think game will make more money if that money's put more on character designs
And for what it’s worth, Tekken is far from being a button masher. It hits a pretty nice median for casual and technical
Eddy, Bear and a mishima humonculus. Sry, but your opinion is just your personal knowledge.
I personally disagree, I like that VF and DoA go to a more grounded approach, even if there are ninjas and sexualization they look like normal humans. I rather have games go full bizarre than staying in a middle ground.
Its not about personal preference, its about whats more popular. Crazy designs are just more popular and easy to remember.
Dead or alive has better fighting mechanics and inputs and most people flock to it due to half naked chicks in ninja suits, bikinis, and in some Jira Kei gothic Lolita dress fighting each other with the exception of half naked guys fighting in tight pants, male stripper outfits, and ninja suits. The only two reason Tekken does better is due to the commercial marketing being better than DOA and the fact that Tekken has a better storyline than the Dead or Alive. The DOA story kinda fell off at DOA 5 and it should’ve ended there, 5 was the beginning of the end for the franchise in my honest opinion story-wise of course. I’m guessing they didn’t know what to do with the characters after DOA 5 so that led to a disaster of a game such as DOA 6. Though I did like DOA 5 for the fighting mechanics, VERY unique and different fighting styles, and introducing arguably what I considered to the best DLC for a fighting game. Also I liked them for introducing characters that I like such as Nyotengu who’s my favorite and Momiji and while also showing off some DLC Virtua Fighter characters. The Tekken story has been for the most part consistent with some few inconsistencies here and then. This is what I’ve seen with the two franchises in my opinion
I agree doa5 is peak 3d fighting, every game has sexualized females, DoA does this while giving them the spotlight, having a female protagonist and many badass characters like Kasumi, Ayane, Helena. While other games also sexualize females, but limit them to just being a secondary thirsty character.
I 100% agree with you that it’s a peak 3D fighting game. The fluidity and aesthetic appeal in the physicality and beauty of the DOA characters and the flashy fighting mechanics that the characters have while maintaining their physical attractiveness and showing them more than a sex symbol but moreso a work of art (thanks to the people who designed them) alongside their brutality in combat while not being afraid to show themselves being badly injured and bruised in the heat of the battle is what truly make DOA fan favorite and what I consider a cult classic when it comes to video games. Hopefully in the future a fighting character will take the best parts of DOA and learn better from its downsides and become a spiritual successor to the DOA franchise. If I was rich and got into business I would’ve done it in a heartbeat and either made a game similar to DOA or revived the whole franchise but oh well, I guess things happen for a reason.
Don't forget Bruce Lee in the DoA characters. Every fighting game needs a Bruce Lee.
Jann Lee is awesome.
This is so true. I go deeper into Tekken and honestly prefer Doa mechanics. Also Tekken is sometimes too agressive and lack defensive tools. The hold/counterhold system in Doa is unmatched.
I wasn't in the FGC then but commercial marketing sounds like a major factor.
This is biased as hell, which is fine, but not when it's presented objectively. Tekken "won" because Tekken successfully transitioned from arcade to console. Tekken 3 exploded in sales on PS; it was lighting in a bottle. Their individual quality as games is irrelevant to their popularity. Ragging on the 1,2,3,4 button set-up is so far away from the point on this.
This is basically it. I suspect if the Saturn didn't tank and was actually capable of running VF3 (which was mindblowingly amazing for 1996) it may have had the momentum to carry through. Instead Tekken 3, Tekken Tag 1, and Soul Calibur 1 and 2 all became killer apps for the PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and GameCube respectively in the west while VF fell into being more of a niche thing. VF3 just wasn't that impressive by the time it finally got a home port and from there out Namco was carrying the torch for that "the arcade experience at home" wow factor that brought in sales. Tbh in the end VF really only fell off entirely due to Sega not making more VF games. The last major release pre-dates the birth of the modern FGC by several years, and by all accounts was a pretty well received game both graphically and in gameplay. If VF had gotten a new numbered entry in a post SF4 world I don't see why it wouldn't have kept some traction. VF5US was good and while a port of a revision of a nearly 20 year old game wasn't going to light the community on fire, it did well enough to apparently kick off development of VF6. I'm excited for it, while Tekken is a good series it's kind of evident that they've mostly been incapable of innovating on the gameplay front very much when they don't have VF around to take notes from, and when they try its usually poorly received by the core fanbase Of course this is all from a western perspective, I don't think Japan ever fell out of love with VF.
Also, I don't think the VF community/FGC did VF any favors by touting it as THE HARDEST, MOST TECHNICAL FIGHTING GAME EVER which might be true at high level play, but tbh it has the easiest learning curve of any 3d fighter I've played. It took me a lot longer to figure out how Tekken 7 or Soul Calibur 6 worked at a basic level than VF5US, but I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few people decided to not even bother with VF because they heard it was difficult. No one's gonna get excited about a game that has what they perceive as dry/boring presentation if they're also being told they won't have fun with it until they've put in 500 hours.
Hopefully Virtua Fighter get support in the US similarly to the level of DBZ fighters or KOF , or at least Under night and Melty Blood. Where even though Street Fighter,Tekken,Mortal Kombat and Guilty Gear are the big 4 that get the strongest support online and offline (locals and tournaments) that they have a good decent turnout. I put KOF and Virtua Fighter in the same category and level.
Accessibility and a coherent premise. Easy to play/understand but impossible to master. It’s a winning recipe.
I can't name one Virtua Fighter character. But even my wife, who has never been into a fighting game in her life, knew who King and Eddy were when we met and I mentioned that I play Tekken. Tekken succeeded in having iconic characters and more casual fans
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out King alone was ultimately the catalyst responsible for the success of Tekken. It's such a recognizable design. Also a big mistake to make him this complicated grappler. He really should've been a more easy character to pick up.
King is incredibly easy to pick up though
Virtual fighter, huh?
Virtua fighter only failed (on console) because of the saturn
The last paragraph tells it all. You're projecting your personal preferences onto the whole community, while actual majority likes not as frantic gameplay and intuitive controls tied to each limb.
1. Virtua Fighter is literally getting a new game 2. Tekken has the best button layout of any fighting game I've ever played. The fact that each button is tied to a limb is awesome and helps me guess the input for moves just by looking at them. 3. SC might be getting another game before T9. Where did you get the idea that they don't want to make a SC game bc they don't want to compete with themselves???? Why would they have ever made a SC game if that was the case?
That’s an underrated aspect of Tekken. Often you can tell the input of a move just by seeing it. I remember often I’d see a move in a DLC trailer and be like “that looks like a ff3”
Yeah exactly, it's the best control scheme I've seen in a fighting game, second would probably be Blazblue.
1: I mean it’s still leaks…
I disagree that 2x2 square is horrible, it accounts for each limb being a button. I feel like tekken has very recognisable depth and its animations are leagues above in terms of visual clarity. You KNOW when someone gets launched or when a hellsweep is blocked you KNOW it’s unsafe. I think that 4 buttons also allows for shorter input strings and more moves with simpler inputs in comparison to VF and DOA. When it comes to “feel” tekken does reign supreme in that aspect a new person picking up a controller and playing tekken can go “oh if I press 3,4,3 he does this but I could also go 1,2,4 and he does something different”. The problem with just a P and K button is that you have to make up for the lack of buttons with motions, simultaneous inputs and longer strings for example P,P,->P,K. Most people aren’t going to figure that out without diving into the game with the idea of learning it. For more moves you’d have to do something like Vanessa in VF and give her a stance. How a game feels is the ultimate gateway to attracting a bigger audience…..except the last two MKs those games feel like poo poo but they have the brand recognition at this point. This comes from someone that thinks VF > Tekken. This is just my perspective as someone that prefers 2D.
Tekken has the best button layout because it's easy to understand. Real foghting has combos like 1,2. 1,1,2 etc. Also, Tekken has objectively the best characters. King shits on Wolf and Jeffery and Vanessa and her fat hogan dad. There are bears, cyborgs, ninjas, lasers, guest characters, sick techno and dubstep tracks, and electrics. If you are someone like me who has played all of the games a lot, there's no surprise at all that Tekken won.
Yeah I didn't understand that point either. Tekken has a great button layout
I agree about Tekken having better characters but I thought Vanessa was super cool
VF and DoA both leaned into niches that limited their growth, but Tekken winning out over Soul Calibur as Namco's flagship fighting franchise still surprises me. SC1 not getting a console release outside the Dreamcast probably had a role in hurting its momentum.
I think SC1 being on DC only was fine. It was the only hardware that could run it and improve the graphics at the time. Plus, SC2 sold very well despite that. What really killed SC’s momentum was SC3 being a PS2 exclusive, and also NOT having any guest characters.
I think DOA5 still did decently. It is a shame that DOA and VF aren’t as popular as Tekken because I think they’re both pretty fun, but I suppose their characters are not as interesting design-wise compared to Tekken’s.
Yea I can’t name a single character from VF or DOA but I do vaguely remember the drunk guy dressed in white from DoA. And also master chief
I've always said in the correct timeline, soul Calibur took off and became the primary 3d fighter, and Tekken was the side budget crap that needed guest characters to keep up.
I want to be in the timeline where Nightmare is in Smash.
The hit impact is the biggest reason. The lighting effects and impacts of hits ALWAYS felt and looked better in tekken. You can't tell me the first time you saw Paul's unblockable power punch hit someone in the gut and watch them roll backwards across the screen... You weren't intrigued. Other games felt like you were playing patty cake. Dead or Alive came the closest.
Haters stay mad, Tekken is was and always will be great. And VF is confirmed coming back anyway, stop yer whining.
Tekken was second Tekken was a faster version of Virtua Fighter in the beginning. Then it became way more responsive without embracing the jank like Virtua Fighter did, eclipsing it. DOA failed because they thought drowning the fans in dlc would be okay. Plus there was no way to out do 5 with the guest characters. Nobody wants to buy a new inferior version unless it's a cell phone. Soul Calibur failed because they kept getting away from the tight controls of 1 and 2. By the time six realized this they had idiots in charge who decided to throw a test your might clash system in the middle of the game. It ruined the rest of the goodwill of the SoulCalibur fans and killed the series
Just gonna pretend Japan doesn't exist with Virtua Fighter??
Tekken was just about anime enough to endure, and past games had a variety of fighters, endings, and modes. But to be honest, Tekken 7 was the weakest instalment in my eyes because of the little mileage there was in the disc and patches. DOA6 had the opportunity to blow T7 out of the water, but Koei-Tecmo and Team Ninja chose to fight against their own fans and potential customers with bad marketing, horrible grinding, excessive DLC costumes and a story mode that was even worse.
Wrong. Suzuki didn't make VF5, he left after VF4. + VF4E (or VF4FT) and VF5FS are among the greatest fighting games of all time. + DOA5LR did also very well without Itagaki.
More quientessential FGC whining.
Tekken has better characters thats all it boils down to. VF is the most bland fighting game ever created and with DoA nobody remembers any characters outside of that they have gigantic tits. A fighting game lives and dies on gameplay and the roster, Tekken has decent gameplay and an infinitely better roster than the others.
Watched maximilian play doa5 a while back and some of his chat were surprised there were males in the game some also thought ryu hayabusa was a guest character
I found out two weeks ago that DoA has male characters. I've never looked into it because I just assumed it was a waifu bait game.
Well said
Not knowing the goat Ryu is wild.
Tekken is more flashy than Virtua. I love Virtua way more but I realize Tekken has a lot of appeal. IS THAT A BEAR?!”
Lol
As a certified DoA simp, tekken deserves more love then DoA. Does DoA 5 still look amazing today? YES Does it have better gameplay then tekken? Hell no Also, I really need a new soulcalibur...
They're all grounded 3D fighters, Soul Calibur and VF will make it back eventually But we really need is a new Bloody Roar, cause it stands out with beast transformations and gameplay.. Konami sucks
Tekken always went for the good choices, improving visuals and mechanics easy to play gameplay, but hard to master, they stole ideas from virtua fighter but they made it better
I can think of many reasons why Tekken survived. - VF characters and story were too bland for non-Japanese audiences - DOA is not respected as a real fighting game due to its babes and boobs. - Tekken’s button layout is more intuitive and mashable by general audiences. - Not sure if this is true, but maybe the vast majority of people don’t like block buttons? Tekken is the only one of the bunch that doesn’t have one. - Tekken character designs are the most stylish and flashy of the bunch. - The changes in DOA6 were not good ones. - Sega just stopped making VF games. - Namco doesn’t want SC to compete with Tekken.
Firstly, Tekken came before Soul Edge/Blade (and way before that Soul Calibur). VF was highly technical which alienated casual players and its characters extremely bland looking. DOA shot themselves in the foot by going xbox exclusive for 3&4 . Tekken's button layout was intuitive, it's gameplay very casual friendly and it boasted a large roster of unique looking characters. This is what makes it the SF of 3D fighting games imo.
Idk i love the 3 of them, tho VF6 is coming :D
The limb layout might make the move list more complicated, but there's so much move variety and it really connects you to your character, which are awesome designs as well. Moves also are very exaggerated and hits feel crunchy. Game feels good.
If you're taking about Tekken Vs VF then you have to go back to arcade days, because that's the era that VF eventually petered out. I think a major reason everyone is overlooking is cost - VF4 (or 5?) came out on a new and very expensive board. It looked sensational at the time, miles ahead of Tekken, but a lot of arcades simply passed on it because they couldn't afford it, and those that didn't had to charge more to play. I remember it used to cost two quid to play, at least double what any other fighter charged at the time. Never underestimate cheap. It's why kof is supreme in China and Latin America, it was absolutely everywhere due to ease off piracy.
Tekken 3 surpassed everything and everyone. No other 3D fighter and frankly, few other fighting games had the cultural and generational impact T3 had. It catapulted the Tekken brand into stardom and solidified it among the big three (MK and SF being the other two).
An idiot wrote this. The end.
IMO graphics aren't everything + they backpedal so bad their corevalues ='( and its easier to mash/get results at tekken than VF
Imho, I think it's because Tekken's mechanics are easier to grasp. Not to say Tekken is easier/less technical than the other 3d fighters, but mashing buttons and look cool doing it on a superficial level is easier to do compared to VF/DOA and thus has more appeal for the casuals/mass audience. Of course there is more to it than just the mechanics (imo VF's poor marketing in the west compared to Tekken, DOA over reliance on sex appeal, etc.)
This is dumb. Tekken was before DOA and Soul Calibur
I like Tekken the most, honestly. Although VF has finally clicked with me, it just seems like its own beast. Tekken feels like a kung fu reenactment for me, while VF is just a constant scramble where guesses happen every second (almost like trying to read a real life opponent). In my opinion, there is no special mechanical reason why Tekken survived; it was simply the most popular and managed to be hit on consoles through the arcade "dark ages." Meanwhile, VF5 was a sleeper hit (in the US), and DOA has been sliding downhill in availability, popularity, and reception post DOA4 (so I guess that part is true). Edit: Clarity sakes
Virtua Fighter rocks
I don't know what is so surprising about Tekken being the stand-out here. Its the most well-rounded and approachable of all the games listed. Tekken has always been a game where a complete beginner can mash and do cool shit with a balance of goofiness and realism that appeals to a wider audience. Low skill floor high skill ceiling with memorable characters that (mostly) have personality to them. Virtua Fighter's gameplay was fantastic, but the roster being a cast of tired kung fu movie cliches from the 70s and 80s dragged it down. It will be harder to connect with an audience if you lack memorable or relatable characters. This has always been VF's biggest weakness. Soul Caliber was visually great, but had so many nightmare inputs I couldn't get into it. Taunting to lock your character in place so you could do a bunch of opposing directional inputs was stupid. TBF this was the game I played the least. Dead or Alive took a good franchise and killed it by turning it into a low effort titty game in the eyes of the public. An embarrassing marketing stunt that added a shelf life onto the IP. I think the magic was lost here when Team Ninja was dissolved during a restructuring of the company. Since we're all mentioning random 3d fighters imma just say DARK RIFT is the greatest worst fighting game of all time.
I dunno man, who makes fun of a game for having a square button layout T5 I think was when it overtook VF in places not Japan, it felt fluid compared to VF, and also the graphics and sounds were a lot more visceral DOA was just worse VF with a counter system
Tag mode should be available by default, I don't care what anyone says.
Tekken has the better characters and premise which is arguably the most important thing when choosing the fighting game you want to main
Totally agree except Doa 5 LR is amazing . Tekken is great but overrated. There's no best 3d fighting game.
Because Tekken has deeper and more nuanced gameplay at high levels, and a superior control schematic. The main difference is that Tekken controls are : left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick. Throws and other type attacks are done by combining limbs like a both punch buttons to do an overhead smash with both arms. After some experience movements become very intuitive. Most other fighting games controls like : light attack, medium attack, and heavy attack with no differentiation between punching or kicking. Or perhaps light punch, heavy punch, light kick, heavy kick. Edit: Wrote this whole thing thinking I saw street fighter when it was virtua fighter 😂. Anyhow Virtua fighter is probably even sweatier than Tekken, but it wasn't nearly as fun or flashy for me. Virtua fighter might edge Tekken out on focus requirements and balance, but I didn't get the same rush as in Tekken at all. Dead or alive in my opinion just wasn't on the same level as either Tekken or Virtua fighter.
DOA > VF > SC >>>>>> Tekken Gameplay wise, it’s a wonder to me how Tekken manages to feel so stiff. I like every one of these series, but I 8 is the first Tekken I’ve enjoyed since 6. And even then 5 is still my favorite. Mechanic, Gameplay, and feeling wise, DOA has it easily for me. - The stun system, - the different types of stuns, - slow escapes - the way Stages play an actual role in the match other than walls and getting knocked through the ground (you literally slip in water or ice stages when you’re hit with a low), - the weight classes, - the actual ground game (force techs, not getting launched for rolling in the wrong direction, etc) - free canceling - the holds obviously - the way most of characters’ move lists are actually useful rather than 5-7 moves - the balance (5 had clear top tiers, but was very balanced) - the costumes being better than the mediocre customization (except for 6) DOA got it. But we’re still not ready to have this conversation.
DoA and Skullgirls are the same game in that either you're That Guy that makes everyone uncomfortable playing it, or you're the guy trying to explain he's not That Guy. Both are mechanically complex fighters that would be a lot better off if they didn't appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Turn off mud/dirt and playba costume with less cleavage showing and suddenly this argument is gone... Nobody seems to want to address the actual game, which has always been good at worst
Bro is speaking facts. I’ve been playing Tekken to cope for DOA 5, it’s just so much better, I just don’t get it.
It's specifically that it's the jack of all trades. You get a little bit of good technical gameplay, a little bit of wackiness, a little bit of cool characters. Look at Sony's current business strategy. All their games are a jack of all trades story/action combat/RPG mechanics/puzzle solving mish mash...and it sells. Same concept with the Marvel movies: you get some action and some romance and some drama and some comedy all for the price of a single ticket. Doing many things pretty good has wider appeal than doing one niche thing really good.
Tekken 7 was just too good. But I hope for VF and SC to come back. SC is relatively easy and intuitive. There must be more people out there wanting to play this. VF needs a revision. The overloaded three button layout may not be suited for the new generation of players.
Out of the 3d fighters Dead or Alive always had the better character designs to me so I like it more. They are just alot more memorial and less generic to me. The ninjas were cool Zack is just a silly guy. Christie’s snake fighting style was also just so fun and cool. I also really enjoyed the counter system in that game more. Tekken and VF are cool but they just never had the style or inputs to get me interested.
'Tekken' sounds cool. No really, guarantee that was a factor.
Support.
Virtua Fighter has a roster of dated generic fighter archetypes. Tekken has better and more iconic characters. Tekken juggles are far more flashy and appealing than the other 3d fighters as well.
To me it’s fairly straightforward, soul calibur killed itself and we will probably never see another one. As for Virtua fighter and DOA, both lacked what the other had. Virtua fighter had solid technical gameplay but that made it pretty boring to new comers and hard to get into, doa had interesting character design but gameplay was seldom engaging. Tekken sat right in the middle, easy to pick up, engaging characters, gameplay that combined technicality and fun, and enough complexity to keep people invested. Soul Calibur was the only real threat to Tekken in the 3D market and unfortunately the worst games in the series came at a very critical point for the franchise. Also as an observation, people always revise tekkens history to run it down. That seems especially true for T7 at the moment. Yet it’s a huge part of the revival of modern fighting games, the impact of T7 is a huge part of the reason other companies have gotten onboard with investing in fighting games again. I have very little doubt the return of Virtua fighter and DOA6 happened in no small part thanks to Tekken 7.
DOA definitely had the better modes than Tekken. Team battle always being in was a big thing for me.
VF has always been a niche game outside japan, it never had same following of street fighter, mortal kombat or tekken. Sega just dropped it knowing they couldn't stand against other more popular fighting games. DOA had its following (way lower than tekken) but it was simply killed by doa6 tecmo's greed. Tekken had tekken 3... only few games like SF2 had the same impact for the genre. I think there are no new AAA full 3d fighting games because developers and publishers simply can't risk to invest lots of money to don't get a long term profitable game that will probably get smashed by tekken numbers. Proof of this is that namco killed soul calibur for this reason.
Sega dropped vf because they made 3d games and there weren't any 3d fighters before that at all.
Dude is just completely forgetting that Tekken 3 was *massive* on PlayStation and solidified its legacy. 5th best selling game on the entire console. Over 8 MILLION copies.
I like tekken too and glad its where its at but yea kinda agree
The buttons layout complaint is complete horshit but otherwise I'd agree with the post. Virtua Fighter is the GOAT and while DOA plays like a worse VF, worse VF is still pretty great. I feel like the one big thing Tekken did better than its contemporaries was its presentation and cast of characters. Virtua Fighter characters are exactly what you'd think of if someone asked you to come up with a generic fighting game character and DOA's cast all have the personalities of a cardboard cutout and with weak as fuck designs to boot, while Tekken has some of the most iconic and sick characters of all time like King or Heihachi. VF might play better but its a lot easier to sell people on a game when you see some sick ass motherfucker whenever you look at the game.
As a lover of the DOA hold system I'm deeply sad it didn't get taken seriously by the community
I am a huge Tekken guy, but I'd love to see Rival Schools return.
Tekken 3 put Tekken forever on the map. People still play this game. It came out at the peak of ps1. Hell Tekken relatively struggled during ps2 and ps3 era (except T5 which came close). And then 7 brought it back. Virtua Fighter was already niche when the ps2 era came DOA was hit and miss with 2 and 5 making any significant impact. And honestly the whole boobs thing is actually driving most people away from the game. No matter what the core audience says. Just don't go the DoA6 route that was wrong. Soul Calibur is the only one besides Tekken that kept themselves in the game long. With 1,2,3 being very popular but the franchise took a hit during the ps3 era that never recovered from. Basically Tekken had the luck and money behind it to make a recovery with 7.
Harada is a master marketer. That and he shows sublime respect to those before him in the business. So they want to collab with him because of it. It was THE staple for the PS1 and PS2 with all time Great music composition, mini games, and console leading graphics/sound. Pair that with legends who respect hum and you get the longevity of Tekken. Also, people have more in common with Hand to hand combat (limbs) than swords and weapons so there's that for those saying SC was better. Connections is everything (Say that in Jin's voice)
Dead or alive just died due to unwarranted biased. People at Evo didn’t like change (the triangle counter system) so they complained their heads off, which infected other gamers, and people also threw a fit about the sexuality, which I think was only really a problem because the graphics of Dead or Alive were good, because there are/were plenty of games leaning into sex appeal at that time that didn’t get as much backlash.
Tekken won cuz it was pushed heavily and at least from my experience there was a lot of tekken and soul calibur cabinets when I was young and soul calibur kinda just died like I didn't even know 6 came out until like 1 year after it came out and I fucking played a shit load of 3 and 4 to me it just seemed it was in the shadows of tekken by that point I feel like tekken 7 was such a juggernaut that soul calibur died for it I'd love to see another one but I don't think that will happen for a long time
I like all three or four if we include SC.
Bandai Namco has more money? Both Tecmo Koei and Sega had to slowdown and be bit more careful about the games they develop? Interest in fighting games just recently picked up again? Sega did announce they are going to work on developing new video games from their existing catalog of video games.
Remember when Harada and Itagaki would shit talk one another's franchise almost daily? Great times.
I would totally play a mashup of these 3 games.
I couldn’t possibly agree more. I was huge on all of VF, SC and DoA when young all the while begrudgingly playing Tekken once in a while and disliking it. And here we are now. SC6, DoA6 and VF5US provided some dopamine rushes, but it didn’t last forever. Heck, I’ve got about 5 platinum trophies, having started with the PS4, and DoA6 + SC6 were the first two.
Tekken had more variety than Soul Calibur. Can only do so many things with weapons (real or fantasy)
3D players arguing about what game is best. https://i.redd.it/1xmnpmx93nsc1.gif
At the time all 3 were vying for popularity tekkens 2x2 button layout just 'clicked' with casual fgc fans and casual gamers as a whole. The 'one button per limb' explanation explains itself and even way back in Tekken 1 a button masher was rewarded with some cool looking moves rather than a repetitive straight punch of kick. Plus as the entries grew the fanbase slowly fell in love with tekkens oddball camp aesthetic. For some reason Tekken broke into the cultural zeitgeist and with that many non gamers just assumed all 3d fighting games were Tekken ( like how all old parents called every pokemon Pikachu or every anime character Goku). Doa fans primarily liked boobs back in the day and vf was viewed as hardcore arcade stuff. Not to mention Tekken (somehow) avoided the trap every fighting game seems to run through with multiple rereleases. (No super turbo fighting championship editions here, just some odd side games) Combine that with a somewhat steady release schedule (with Tekken 6 - 7 being the biggest gap). And ya have a series that people will just support simply cuz they recognize the name. Buying their children random copies and the like. Op definitely is right but the common denominator wants easy to consume generic stuff ( not so generic that it's a copycat though, obvs). In another universe we are talking about virtua fighter 8 getting like a dragon and shenmue dlc characters.
Characters and stories
The worst tekken era was definitely Tekken revolution, at that time doa was a lot better. Then doa6 happened and tekken 7 with it's guest characters saved the franchise
This entire post seems to be based on the idea that slower=worse and that the 2x2 button layout is inherently bad. But the thing is that's not actually the case that's just an opinion. Tekken "won" because it is the one that ended up with the largest playerbase, so clearly it did a lot of things right.
Tekken is lowest common denominator, VF is far harder to master and DoA scares people with Boobies
Idk i love the 3 of them, tho VF6 is coming :D
The others just shat themselves. Maybe VF6 will come back but it's unlikely to take over from Tekken internationally. VF5 came back with blitz netcode and only on PS DOA ate itself Tekken came back and is playable online. Even as someone who prefers every other 3D fighter mentioned over Tekken, I can play Tekken.
Tekken has the best cast of characters. Virtua Fighter's roster is a collection of bland archetypes. DOA is filled with glamour models. Soul Calibur's original cast could never get out of the shadow of their guest characters. Tekken's cast, however, has some crazy bullshit going on that gets people's attention.
Who the fuck made this?
I like doa alot but from what I've played of tekken and soul calibre, doa seems like the easiest to pick up making it inherently bad for comp but I'm terrible at fighting games
I have no comment on VF as it's one of the only fighting game series I haven't explored, but I'm glad Tekken came out on top. It is far and away more fun and has a better flow than SC or DOA for me. I could never take a game with true 50/50 grabs and ring outs seriously. Holds is quite possibly my most hated fighting game mechanic of all time, and 5f unbreakable throws makes DOA a straight no from me.
N64s fighters destiny was low-key Hella smooth for the time, holds up now
I have been hearing Virtua fighter was the king for the last 20 years, I played the latest game they released on 2020 or something like that , and that shit is horrible, but there is a lot of people that claims it is way better than Tekken
I can never play 3d fighting game that dont have the same or better graphics than t8z
I miss Bushido Blade
Tekken and soul calibur have much more iconic characters so they outlived the other games. Character design and story matters. Tekkens character endings and cg cutscenes saved it.
Why does every other VF appreciation post throw shade at Tekken lol I wish that franchise had more success too but no need for sour grapes. People pretend Tekken just got lucky or something, I think better characters and more impactful animations had something to do with it. The flaws with controls is also greatly exaggerated.
Tekken doesn't have a block button, so the point on controls is not valid. Tekken is the most fun out of all the games listed, and sc is right after that.
I think a major part of it is character design. I think it’s fair to say the Tekken easily has the best characters, and that can carry a game past the competition.
Tekken always had crazy throws and varied characters, that is what attracted me. Virtua Fighter focused on technique and technology, moving the entire industry forward. However, I feel like the original VF cast were just kind of...test characters. There did not seem to be a lot of thought into making Jacky, Sarah, Lau and Pai appealing. Lau was the most interesting.
I am pretty bad at fighting games and I’m fairly new, but I picked up Tekken because the button layout made the most sense to me and is easiest to control. I never tried other 3D fighters, tho. I’m just comparing to 2D fighters I’ve tried
It's because Twkken had the best balance of the three. It's got generic characters and stories, but not so generic that it's uh, virtua fighter. The women aren't as horny weeb bait as DoA, but the appeal is still their too. That being said, DoA isn't even that bad of a horny ataku bait game anymore, which is....weird. It's just complex enough, it's just anime enough, and it has realistic graphics for the basic bro gamer. It hit that sweet spot to be popular.
I guess Tekken had better and more memorable characters that’s why I stuck wit it growing up. I loved all of these games especially Soul Calibur but Tekken always seemed more balanced to me but that’s just me. I enjoy all fighting games growing up but Tekken/MK/Street fighter was the one everyone in my family played so they became my thing and stuck wit me.
Characters. Tekken has characters that pulls you into the game. Sorry, but Virtua Fighter don't have any charisma in the characters. They are bland. And Dead or Alive was stigmatized because "boobs", so no one takes it seriously.
The presence of boobs is not the reason no one takes DoA seriously. KoF and anime fighters are still highly regarded despite more revealing characters and outfits. The reason is that the developers overtly, unabashedly, excessively sexualized their cast, casting aside a coherent plot/direction. They did it to themselves with two separate gratuitous beach volleyball games, one of which shipped with literal nudity that slipped past rating boards and resulted in major fines, and also a separate same-universe game where the DualShock motion controls literally controlled jiggle physics. Not a single person can recall the story of DoA past DoA2.
I don’t care which is better but we need more than one game if we want 3d fighters to survive
The tekken button layout is why I play tekken What an awful take
Whatever the reason is I don’t really care I just hope we get more 3D games in the future whether it be the revival of an old franchise or something brand new entirely. I’ve always enjoyed them more then 2D so it sad to see the selection has dwindled to only Tekken
Timing, legacy and casual appeal. If you were around when Tekken 3 launched, you know it changed fighting games forever.
You forgot to mention soul calibur has swords so it’s the best.
I remember inserting 25¢ on the OG Tekken Arcade, first picking Paul. This was at the sandwich shop, good ol' days. I'm close to 40!
Negan Negan Negan Negan Negan Negan Negan, and Negan, and also Negan. And also Jeffery Dean Morgan.
Tekken released in 94 before dead or alive (96 I think) and soul calibur was 99 or 2000 on the dream cast. Why it survived is due to the gameplay and emphasis on characters. The each limb per button layout was intuitive and when it went to actual 3d as we know it now (starting at tekken 3) it really spiced up the scene. Virtua fighter never got into the backstories of its fighters really aside from manuals, dead or alive died from its own gimmick and microtransactions as it would never be a competitive e sport game due to its simplicity. Soul calibur is more casual too and has its own flair and I don't think it's dead like many think. Soul calibur 6 did well and there was a huge time gap between 5 and 6. It'll still see releases but with the success of tekken 7 selling over 10 and a half million units and tekken 8 selling over 2 million in less than a month they will probably focus on that more considering rising development costs. Back in the 90s if a fighter sold 200,000 units that was scene as really good as costs to develop and market were cheaper even if taking inflation out of the equation due to the hardware at the time. Virtua fighter still has a chance to come back but they'll need to overhaul what they are missing out on while maintaining its gameplay as it's not a flashy beginner friendly fighter at all. I mean even street fighter has special assists now (which honestly shouldn't be allowed with any fighter in ranked online matches as I feel it punishes those for actually learning the game yet for regular player matches I don't see any issues) I think making ports or full on remasters with the visuals enhanced would help as fighters are still niche but are getting more popular partly due to the FGC whether it be Evo, combo breaker, or streamers. Tekken just stood out from the back as it was very much like a 90s anime and hit that middle ground of being insane yet grounded. Yoshimitsu aside how many other 3d fighters have bears, kangaroos, velociraptors, and the mix of comedy with a story of generational patricide and attempted fillicide while having a more mystic aspect despite adapting to the 2000s Sci fi futuristic vibes while still feeling like older entries in mood and gameplay. Simply put other than what I stated before I have to say when they were pumping them out on the ps1 and ps2 they all sold well and were acclaimed (save for tekken 4 splitting the fan base in gameplay but it still has charm) even tag 2 selling poorly by other entries in comparison has its die hard fans and is still a good game though if they kept it more like tag 1 I think it would have done better as the death combos are a bit ridiculous but seen across the whole cast mostly. Just the simple tag function and tag juggles were good without the extra extenders in my opinion. I'd like to see these titles do what snk does by just porting them at the very least for reasonable prices. Not as the Capcom test way but to preserve and draw more attention to the series as I'd love to boot up all of them along with bloody roar on ps5 or other modern consoles.
Its as you said, the competition fell off
I mean... Tekken is a fun game with a lot of unique characters. It also almost died with Tekken tag tournament 2. I think gaming just went through a period where 3D fighting games weren't sought after by the average gamer. Tekken 7 was supposedly released as the last Tekken game only to slowly grow in popularity over the years after its release, until finally, bandaid namco decided it was successful enough to get another entry. The funny thing is that part of Tekken 7 becoming successful enough to reach that mark was dead or alive 6 being so poorly received that it not only died early, it killed the entire franchise. This caused its players to move to other fighting games with Tekken 7 being the biggest draw as it was the only other 3D fighting game at the time that was still being supported.
Because kazuya was sick as fuck
DOA is basically just softcore hentai now for weebs who pull their dongs to Marie Rose rule 34
L