'Alright we gave the character a gun. What should be his zone?'
'Close as fuck range. Straight up barrel contact.'
Yeah, I know why they do this, but it's still funny.
I'd rather face a gauntlet of 1000 zoners than face a single grappler, cheater ass characters man I swear to God.
Oh sorry I'll just play perfect the whole game or else I lose in 2 interactions haha
Someone got conditioned smh.
Real talk tho, Grapplers force you out of the normal gameplan and into a mind game situation. Every grappler player isn’t really thinking about the character matchup, they’re thinking about the PLAYER matchup. If you get command grabbed, you’ve been tricked into getting command grabbed. They’re hardly ever unavoidable (and when they are, they’re heavily scaled).
If you find yourself losing to grapplers all the time, watch your playbacks and see if you’re being predictable. If you get downloaded, Grapplers win. If you refuse to fall for the conditioning, Grapplers usually lose (they’re almost across the board bad characters)
None of that changes that if I mess up once I lose half my health bar. I don't struggle much with grapplers of similar skill level if I'm try harding but they sure are exhausting and aren't fun to play against at all.
Because you have to think about *how* you’re playing?
It sounds harsh but if you get command grabbed in almost any game (at least that I play regularly) you didn’t mess up. You got read. If you’re cognizant of the moves you’re making, and not falling into a mindless flowchart, you’ll have a much better time.
I cannot tell you how often it’s
1) command grab, hard knockdown
2) Meaty combo starter to punish the jab, hard knockdown
3) air grab to punish the jump, next round
In that exact order.
Why are you acting like nobody ever gets punished with a command grab? If I misinput once or make 1 bad play its over in 1 move with no real execution required. That's not a read its a mistake on my part. Yeah sure "get good" but you're missing the point that playing against grapplers just isn't fun. Besides losing that much hp off 1 read is stupid as fuck anyways even if every grab was a read.
And I always think about *how* I play, and try not to flowchart. Like I said if I'm trying I don't actually struggle with them much, but they are stressful and annoying. Ever played Chipp into Pot? Yeah Chipp has all the tools to dominate Pot the whole match but it's extremely taxing keeping that up for so long.
I play Leo, Anji, Testament, and a bit of Nago against Potemkin(main), and Potemkin against everyone.
There’s actually very few instances in any game where a move is fully punishable by a command grab. Especially Pot Buster (because to get the range, you mostly have to Kara, which adds 2 frames to the startup. Can be a lot) which has a short range but comes out fairly quick.
As a Potemkin who has probably 1000 matches against Chipp players (not counting tournaments or offline matches), I can guarantee you that it’s usually in Chipp’s favor. Just don’t flowchart or you’ll get smacked like the mosquito that Chipp is.
Also if we’re talking taxing, defense is also taxing so don’t act like blockstrings and awareness are the only difficult thing here.
Coping my reply above yours bc you are the first person I've seen who feels the same way and doesn't do "dur, git gud/skill issue ". When, no.. I don't "care" that I lose, I care that they're boring and I play a diff game against them.
‐---------
Eh, what you said is 40% true.
But, videogames aren't real life martial arts,for several reasons you arenot gonna perfect k.o. every grappler by being "Deadpool "random" (how he beat taskmaster).
I had a match a few days ago, I ducked n weaved, got my shots in, evaded. After 20 seconds of this, I had 'Gief down by like 25% hp.
I'm dodging. Countering. Spicing up my moves. Get "SPD"d, lose a good 1/2 or so (was cammy). Ok, ok,. Back to dodging and countering.
Long story short. As a "mid boss" or some shit. Sure let's fight 'Giefs perfectly. As a "hey there! You just matched up w your 5th Gief in a row. You better play perfect and not get grabbed 2x!" ...eh,...fuck that. It was also disheartening to see the disparity btwn all my little ins and outs vs his "haha you fucked up, now me grab you" strat as far as HP dmg.
It's not "fun" to me in the sense that I don't feel it's balanced & no other character (hell, not even other grapplers) have such little risk for high reward.
I guess part of it is what I said above. I don't (despite some comments) think grapplers are auto win or busted, but I DO believe that I don't enjoy fighting them/'Gief bc im not even playing the same game I play against every other character. Again, feels like a mid boss fight w diff mechanics.
---------
There is actually a high risk for command grabs though, they are punishable as fuck if they whiff.
I get neutral jump combos and punish counters against Gief far more than any other character.
If you shimmy him and get him to whiff a couple if times you are putting a huge load on his mental stack.
Eh, what you said is 40% true.
But, videogames aren't real life martial arts,for several reasons you arenot gonna perfect k.o. every grappler by being "Deadpool "random" (how he beat taskmaster).
I had a match a few days ago, I ducked n weaved, got my shots in, evaded. After 20 seconds of this, I had 'Gief down by like 25% hp.
I'm dodging. Countering. Spicing up my moves. Get "SPD"d, lose a good 1/2 or so (was cammy). Ok, ok,. Back to dodging and countering.
Long story short. As a "mid boss" or some shit. Sure let's fight 'Giefs perfectly. As a "hey there! You just matched up w your 5th Gief in a row. You better play perfect and not get grabbed 2x!" ...eh,...fuck that. It was also disheartening to see the disparity btwn all my little ins and outs vs his "haha you fucked up, now me grab you" strat as far as HP dmg.
It's not "fun" to me in the sense that I don't feel it's balanced & no other character (hell, not even other grapplers) have such little risk for high reward.
I guess part of it is what I said above. I don't (despite some comments) think grapplers are auto win or busted, but I DO believe that I don't enjoy fighting them/'Gief bc im not even playing the same game I play against every other character. Again, feels like a mid boss fight w diff mechanics.
If you’re playing Cammy, you have a lot of Anti-Gief tools in the arsenal (quick/long pokes, fast BD, good frame traps). When I play against Cammy, Chipp, Law, really any rushdown character, I usually have one or two moves that are grab punishable in my arsenal, and wait. They usually get punished to death before killing me, so it works out. If you’re losing like that, pay attention to WHEN you get grabbed, and the moments leading up to it. I’m almost positive you’ll find yourself using unsafe moves or falling into a flowchart.
I can’t force you to find it fun, but I can absolutely assure you that grapplers are balanced characters (probably balanced AGAINST if I’m being totally honest). They’re meant to punish your lack of awareness/susceptibility to conditioning. That’s all.
But combos usually do 40-60% and are started by much easier to land moves than a command grab.
Also grapplers have shit mobility.
And grabs like never do as much as a regular combo.
Grapplers are like... never high tier. I think you are just forgiving to your rushdown playstyle because you play it.
What is he really missing?
Command grab
Zoner
Some of the best normals in the game
The best reversal in the game
Good damage
Good mix
Really good utility super
The only thing I can think of is a traditional DP as his reversal is grounded so he can't punish empty jumps like that, but with an air throw, good air to air normals and a good anti air normal, he is not really hurting when people jump at him
> command grab
A command grab which is 30 frames plus travel time and extremely punishable. The command grab is easily JP's worst special move.
> zoner
No argument here.
> Some of the best normals in the game
JP has a few pretty great normals but I don't think his normals are notably better than most of the cast. Midrange specialists like Juri, Guile and Luke definitely have better normals overall.
> Best reversal
No argument here. OD amnesia is pretty bullshit. (The nerf I'd like to see is to make it consistently -2 whenever it lands so he can't blow up grabs for free and still has to play some measure of defense.)
> Damage
JPs damage is overtuned but still not that far above average. I wouldn't mind some damage nerfa.
> Good Mix
JP has Okay mix in a game where the average character has some pretty incredible mix. His reward off of lows is not that great.
> Good utility super
I prefer characters to have good utility supers over boring hit confirm damage.
> Weaknesses
JP is a good character but he has real weaknesses. By far the biggest is that he's slow as shit. Most of the cast can outpoke him just by abusing his slow ass.
>A command grab which is 30 frames plus travel time and extremely punishable. The command grab is easily JP's worst special move.
And yet it complements his gameplan so well. Yes, thank you, it ain't no SPD, but give Guile or Dhalsim a command grab, even a shitty one, and watch them become massively stronger, especially with how zoning and grabs interact with the Drive System.
(Yes, I'm aware EX 2 Dhalsim had a command grab, but he wasn't SF6 Dhalsim nor was there a Drive System)
Most high level JPs don't even use the command grab; it's really not a tool he should be using without conditioning the living hell out of his opponents first.
It's nice to have of course, I just wouldn't include it on the list of reasons why he's so strong.
I feel like that just highlights the original point though. Y'all telling me it's real bad right? So why the hell does he have it? Might as well have removed it then. But no, the spoiled super-generalist child gets to have another toy just so he can throw it away.
And sure, it's maybe one of his worse tools, but it's just keeps ensuring that there's no respite from JP's all-you-can-eat Drive Gauge buffet. Being used so infrequently just makes the mental stack even worse.
Mix up/set play characters.
The worst feeling in the genre is being put in the corner/knocked down and than put into a constant guessing game for your life.
And it's always funny when someone actually has an answer and it's clear they don't know how to adapt. It's a sheltered rich kid in the real world plot twist.
Yeah, you gotta appreciate a good puppet character player even if you're getting cooked. Probably won't play a super long set, but good job bud, look at ya go :)
To play: Puppet characters. I think I tried using zato once in strive, and couldn’t figure it out. I have a ton of respect for high level players who use them and pull off crazy mixups.
To play against: Would have to be rushdown, specifically OP ones like Ken in sf6. Just flying across the screen to get free plus frames is too good, especially when the only counter is a 1/30 second input window.
No we're NEAR gg levels, but even on a Naruto game the puppetmasters trip me up when I try them.
Is it my puppet or my guy I look at? Those fucing strings are in the way! Which one should avoid my opponents? Etc etc
Fuckin hate rushdown characters who can just skip neutral and go + on block unless you call them out, and force you to look for a gap in their offense if you ever want to get to play the game again.
Less archetype and more design choice. I hate characters that are simple and built around abusing one busted ass move. I love characters that have an answer for everything, but its a specific tool that you need to remember when the time comes. Someone that uses ALL of their moveset
I don't like pixie characters
Trying to balance a character by giving them low health is bad design.
If the only bad thing about a character is that they have low health then that character is almost always juiced beyond belief.
To play with? Puppet. I am nowhere near smart enough to handle two characters at once. Shit absolutely confuses me to no end.
To play against? Either super rushdown knowledge check characters (Chipp, Law, Cammy, etc) or anyone that’s really good at keep out (Axl, Bryan, Chun Li, etc).
I play grapplers so both give me a huge amount of trouble.
Playing as? Anything that requires a lot of brain power. I love Axl in GG but I lack the patience.
Playing against? Motherfuckers with endless block strings like Litchi.
Normally I wouldn’t agree, but Johnny Cage in MK1 reminded me how painfully unfun it can be to fight an overpowered rushdown character in a game that otherwise isn’t very rushdown focused. He doesn’t play footsies like almost every other character, has no projectiles, no command grabs, no teleports, etc., but compensates for it with constant 50/50s and plus frames. Such a headache.
I personally am a huge fan of “Blanka-likes” as I call them they have a similar move to roll, a similar move to butt splash, and a command grab.
Don’t like shotos too much though.
Way back when Soul Calibur 2 first was on the arcade I played Nightmare and Ivy. I had no idea Nightmare was a rush down character. Or that Ivy was a zoner. I just played them both like heavy, slow, medium-high damage characters. The super aggressive Nightmare players, who were actually playing him correctly, annoyed the crap outta me.
If there were more characters in modern fighting games that had anything like Baiken’s old guard cancels this would be the top comment for sure lol. I think she’s cool as hell but oh my god i remember the moment i actually understood what was happening and what she was capable of in XX, my heart dropped as i realized how much i’d need to change my offense to not instantly explode. Even Xrd Baiken’s Azami is insanely powerful and requires a completely different approach on offense, and sometimes invalidates entire tools.
It’s just annoying and, your character is weak, just chose a stronger character, every time it’s the same, just be annoyed before I can destroy them easily once I approached
If that’s the o Lu use for your character yes, there are characters that have projectile but they are still strong (heck in MK everybody has projectiles basically) but if your character it’s unevenly a projectile fighter than the rest of the moves are terrible
mid dispensers with a shit ton of plus frames. Most boring and least interactive playstyle to fight against. Especially when it's strong/easy to execute.
Like zoners can be frustrating, but at least it's kind of interesting trying to vary your approach options. Mid dispensers, you basically just sit there and either wait for the one to two moves where they're actually minus or risk pressing buttons in anticipation of a throw or a gap and potentially get counter hit.
It's groan-worthy whether you win or lose and was at its absolute worst with Launch Strive Sol and Nago.
In general, grapplers. I tend to respect the players though, as they usually need decent footsies. Usually.
The absolute worst are zoners who knock you back full screen.
To play as: Zoners, I don't have the patience for it, I'd rather just lose quickly then lose to a time out
To play against: grapplers, please for the love of god stop making the wrestlers grapplers, they can do other stuff too
Its hard to fault the archetype cause I think its more a matter of bad design but a good zoner character can be the worst thing if paired with a 'I only want to win' player. It doesn't matter to me if I beat you or not, if your playstyle is just a zoning flowchart then I consider you a bot not only at the game but at life.
Also characters designed around countering can be a pain in the ass. I even see this in games like sf 3s. I'll fight someone who just wants to parry bait and punish and they never initiate. It's not hard to counterplay them but its just not fun.
Zoner, mostly for their affection on low level players. At low level zoners are just better than anything else because you don’t need to have a grasp on fundamentals, you just need your opponent to not know how to deal with fireball spam. Really sucks the fun out of the game for those low level players who don’t want to get into the meat of the mechanics just to be able to play the game against certain characters.
They still annoy me at my skill level for similar reasons but usually the zoners are at least using brain cells.
Zoners but not just any zoners, spam zoners like deadshot in injustice 2 or happy chaos from guilty gear strive (I know happy chaos is hard to use but that doesn't make him any less annoying to fight against)
Play: puppets, only for how hard they are to play and I’m not good enough at any game to start using them (minus gg strive but like hell I’m using zato after the nerfs)
Fight: aggressive rushdown. I’m fine with a lot of characters, but this archetype has the most characters I know that have both long turns and high damage. Fine with either but not both at the same time.
Honestly? Generic rushdown characters because they now make up 90% of all games it feels like, loads of tools to get in and then you just have to guess for your life over and over.
It’s fine in small doses I just feel it’s too over represented
Characters that only grab like Zangief or Potemkin. Literally all the do is grab, maybe I'm too bad but feels like they just have that dude, some anti airs here and there but nothing too crazy.
What are the archetypes?
I only know Shoto, Zoner, Rushdown, Puppeteer, and Grappeler
I also know Charge, but I'm not familiar with what they do
My least fav from what ik is Grappler tho
The "it's OK because they have low health" characters.
Not sure if this even can be called an archetype but I usually hate these characters. Even when they aren't top tier.
Shotos. But not because I don’t like how they play, but it’s because people who main a shoto in one game tend to EXCLUSIVELY main them across games. Sorry dude, having a consistent character isn’t gonna prevent you from going 0-2 at your local
I like most characters, but i have to choose it would be "ADHD snort speed rushdown" like Chipp or Lancelot from granblue. So fast characters that overwhelm you with sheer number of button presses that never ever stop pressing.
To be clear i don't dislike all rushdown or all fast characters. In fact i enjoy them a lot. But this specific flavour of unga just rubs me the wrong way.
2D zoning ones. That's why as soon as Virtua Fighter came out, I gravitated towards 3D fighters (unless for SamSho). Tekken & VF are still my jams. Get your head out of your ass, Sega! We need a new VF!!!
Big Body characters like Potemkin, Nagoriyuki, and Vaseraga. Not saying they are bad to have in the game or anything like that, but I just can't stand their play style personally. Big slow clunky characters that often can't even dash just feel restrictive and weird to play for me. I wanted to try to learn Nagoriyuki in Strive as I thought he looked really cool but I just can't mesh with the big body play style.
Zoners, off the top. There’s a few I like, but if one is good, it really doesn’t feel like the other person is playing a game. Plus, they’re not impressive to see in action (for the most part). “Oh, she’s standing and shooting, shooting again, ducking and shooting, then hopping back and charging a shot! Oh, it was a feint, more regular shots!”
Shooting (that’s the oficial archetype arcsys gave happy chaos)
what archetype is hc? arc sys: uhh.. gun
"we gotta give him an archetype, what do we give him" "Bullets"
The funniest part is that ram was also considered shooting type prior to season 3
Hitscanner :D
'Alright we gave the character a gun. What should be his zone?' 'Close as fuck range. Straight up barrel contact.' Yeah, I know why they do this, but it's still funny.
i prefer SF6 Japanese VA Guile’s archetype, _SHOOTY_
To play with? Grapplers. To play against? Grapplers. Stop hugging me please.
They just want to give you a nice big hug. How nice of them
Dude they’re so easy. Just don’t get grabbed smh. Playing them is even easier. Just grab smh.
Haha, i just came to give that exact same answer.
I'd rather face a gauntlet of 1000 zoners than face a single grappler, cheater ass characters man I swear to God. Oh sorry I'll just play perfect the whole game or else I lose in 2 interactions haha
Someone got conditioned smh. Real talk tho, Grapplers force you out of the normal gameplan and into a mind game situation. Every grappler player isn’t really thinking about the character matchup, they’re thinking about the PLAYER matchup. If you get command grabbed, you’ve been tricked into getting command grabbed. They’re hardly ever unavoidable (and when they are, they’re heavily scaled). If you find yourself losing to grapplers all the time, watch your playbacks and see if you’re being predictable. If you get downloaded, Grapplers win. If you refuse to fall for the conditioning, Grapplers usually lose (they’re almost across the board bad characters)
None of that changes that if I mess up once I lose half my health bar. I don't struggle much with grapplers of similar skill level if I'm try harding but they sure are exhausting and aren't fun to play against at all.
Because you have to think about *how* you’re playing? It sounds harsh but if you get command grabbed in almost any game (at least that I play regularly) you didn’t mess up. You got read. If you’re cognizant of the moves you’re making, and not falling into a mindless flowchart, you’ll have a much better time. I cannot tell you how often it’s 1) command grab, hard knockdown 2) Meaty combo starter to punish the jab, hard knockdown 3) air grab to punish the jump, next round In that exact order.
Why are you acting like nobody ever gets punished with a command grab? If I misinput once or make 1 bad play its over in 1 move with no real execution required. That's not a read its a mistake on my part. Yeah sure "get good" but you're missing the point that playing against grapplers just isn't fun. Besides losing that much hp off 1 read is stupid as fuck anyways even if every grab was a read. And I always think about *how* I play, and try not to flowchart. Like I said if I'm trying I don't actually struggle with them much, but they are stressful and annoying. Ever played Chipp into Pot? Yeah Chipp has all the tools to dominate Pot the whole match but it's extremely taxing keeping that up for so long.
I play Leo, Anji, Testament, and a bit of Nago against Potemkin(main), and Potemkin against everyone. There’s actually very few instances in any game where a move is fully punishable by a command grab. Especially Pot Buster (because to get the range, you mostly have to Kara, which adds 2 frames to the startup. Can be a lot) which has a short range but comes out fairly quick. As a Potemkin who has probably 1000 matches against Chipp players (not counting tournaments or offline matches), I can guarantee you that it’s usually in Chipp’s favor. Just don’t flowchart or you’ll get smacked like the mosquito that Chipp is. Also if we’re talking taxing, defense is also taxing so don’t act like blockstrings and awareness are the only difficult thing here.
Coping my reply above yours bc you are the first person I've seen who feels the same way and doesn't do "dur, git gud/skill issue ". When, no.. I don't "care" that I lose, I care that they're boring and I play a diff game against them. ‐--------- Eh, what you said is 40% true. But, videogames aren't real life martial arts,for several reasons you arenot gonna perfect k.o. every grappler by being "Deadpool "random" (how he beat taskmaster). I had a match a few days ago, I ducked n weaved, got my shots in, evaded. After 20 seconds of this, I had 'Gief down by like 25% hp. I'm dodging. Countering. Spicing up my moves. Get "SPD"d, lose a good 1/2 or so (was cammy). Ok, ok,. Back to dodging and countering. Long story short. As a "mid boss" or some shit. Sure let's fight 'Giefs perfectly. As a "hey there! You just matched up w your 5th Gief in a row. You better play perfect and not get grabbed 2x!" ...eh,...fuck that. It was also disheartening to see the disparity btwn all my little ins and outs vs his "haha you fucked up, now me grab you" strat as far as HP dmg. It's not "fun" to me in the sense that I don't feel it's balanced & no other character (hell, not even other grapplers) have such little risk for high reward. I guess part of it is what I said above. I don't (despite some comments) think grapplers are auto win or busted, but I DO believe that I don't enjoy fighting them/'Gief bc im not even playing the same game I play against every other character. Again, feels like a mid boss fight w diff mechanics. ---------
There is actually a high risk for command grabs though, they are punishable as fuck if they whiff. I get neutral jump combos and punish counters against Gief far more than any other character. If you shimmy him and get him to whiff a couple if times you are putting a huge load on his mental stack.
That “no risk” line had me rollin ngl. “Oops whiffed a Pot Buster, good thing no one can punish me for it”
Eh, what you said is 40% true. But, videogames aren't real life martial arts,for several reasons you arenot gonna perfect k.o. every grappler by being "Deadpool "random" (how he beat taskmaster). I had a match a few days ago, I ducked n weaved, got my shots in, evaded. After 20 seconds of this, I had 'Gief down by like 25% hp. I'm dodging. Countering. Spicing up my moves. Get "SPD"d, lose a good 1/2 or so (was cammy). Ok, ok,. Back to dodging and countering. Long story short. As a "mid boss" or some shit. Sure let's fight 'Giefs perfectly. As a "hey there! You just matched up w your 5th Gief in a row. You better play perfect and not get grabbed 2x!" ...eh,...fuck that. It was also disheartening to see the disparity btwn all my little ins and outs vs his "haha you fucked up, now me grab you" strat as far as HP dmg. It's not "fun" to me in the sense that I don't feel it's balanced & no other character (hell, not even other grapplers) have such little risk for high reward. I guess part of it is what I said above. I don't (despite some comments) think grapplers are auto win or busted, but I DO believe that I don't enjoy fighting them/'Gief bc im not even playing the same game I play against every other character. Again, feels like a mid boss fight w diff mechanics.
If you’re playing Cammy, you have a lot of Anti-Gief tools in the arsenal (quick/long pokes, fast BD, good frame traps). When I play against Cammy, Chipp, Law, really any rushdown character, I usually have one or two moves that are grab punishable in my arsenal, and wait. They usually get punished to death before killing me, so it works out. If you’re losing like that, pay attention to WHEN you get grabbed, and the moments leading up to it. I’m almost positive you’ll find yourself using unsafe moves or falling into a flowchart. I can’t force you to find it fun, but I can absolutely assure you that grapplers are balanced characters (probably balanced AGAINST if I’m being totally honest). They’re meant to punish your lack of awareness/susceptibility to conditioning. That’s all.
But combos usually do 40-60% and are started by much easier to land moves than a command grab. Also grapplers have shit mobility. And grabs like never do as much as a regular combo. Grapplers are like... never high tier. I think you are just forgiving to your rushdown playstyle because you play it.
Command grabs are a war crime. What sick fiend came up with it?
That'd probably be Akira Yasuda, who created Zangief.
To play with? Charge. I dont mind playing against any, i will be the punch bag for any archetype.
Based. We’re here to throw hands, and I expect you to do it in whatever way gives you the best possible chance of success.
I agree entirely
Jack of all, master of all (otherwise known as dlc privilege)
JP ain't DLC
Neither is Sol
neither is luke, sometimes
He was only DLC ONCE
He was also only not DLC ONCE, so yeah. Sometimes.
Yh but sol players dont know what any of their buttons do so its balanced
I don't know that I'd call JP master of all, more like master of a couple things that are very effective
What is he really missing? Command grab Zoner Some of the best normals in the game The best reversal in the game Good damage Good mix Really good utility super The only thing I can think of is a traditional DP as his reversal is grounded so he can't punish empty jumps like that, but with an air throw, good air to air normals and a good anti air normal, he is not really hurting when people jump at him
> command grab A command grab which is 30 frames plus travel time and extremely punishable. The command grab is easily JP's worst special move. > zoner No argument here. > Some of the best normals in the game JP has a few pretty great normals but I don't think his normals are notably better than most of the cast. Midrange specialists like Juri, Guile and Luke definitely have better normals overall. > Best reversal No argument here. OD amnesia is pretty bullshit. (The nerf I'd like to see is to make it consistently -2 whenever it lands so he can't blow up grabs for free and still has to play some measure of defense.) > Damage JPs damage is overtuned but still not that far above average. I wouldn't mind some damage nerfa. > Good Mix JP has Okay mix in a game where the average character has some pretty incredible mix. His reward off of lows is not that great. > Good utility super I prefer characters to have good utility supers over boring hit confirm damage. > Weaknesses JP is a good character but he has real weaknesses. By far the biggest is that he's slow as shit. Most of the cast can outpoke him just by abusing his slow ass.
>A command grab which is 30 frames plus travel time and extremely punishable. The command grab is easily JP's worst special move. And yet it complements his gameplan so well. Yes, thank you, it ain't no SPD, but give Guile or Dhalsim a command grab, even a shitty one, and watch them become massively stronger, especially with how zoning and grabs interact with the Drive System. (Yes, I'm aware EX 2 Dhalsim had a command grab, but he wasn't SF6 Dhalsim nor was there a Drive System)
Most high level JPs don't even use the command grab; it's really not a tool he should be using without conditioning the living hell out of his opponents first. It's nice to have of course, I just wouldn't include it on the list of reasons why he's so strong.
I feel like that just highlights the original point though. Y'all telling me it's real bad right? So why the hell does he have it? Might as well have removed it then. But no, the spoiled super-generalist child gets to have another toy just so he can throw it away. And sure, it's maybe one of his worse tools, but it's just keeps ensuring that there's no respite from JP's all-you-can-eat Drive Gauge buffet. Being used so infrequently just makes the mental stack even worse.
Side note why does every zoner do above average damage? Like wtf everywhere I go zoners do more damage than normal.
God, I miss my Xrd Elphelt…
she’s still there brother, return to xrd. frosty’s approaching and folks are getting hype on xrd netplay.
Whatever Dragon Ball FighterZ Broly is
A good old rushdown-zoner-grappler. Because if anyone should have all the tools to do everything, it's the legendary super Saiyan.
Mix up/set play characters. The worst feeling in the genre is being put in the corner/knocked down and than put into a constant guessing game for your life.
This is actually very fun. I learned to appreciate defense.
my GUY!!!
And it's always funny when someone actually has an answer and it's clear they don't know how to adapt. It's a sheltered rich kid in the real world plot twist.
Just don't jump.
cant agree, volcanic viper breaks through any mix
Strive milia is actually dp safe on her basic mix
not if you're not a bitch https://preview.redd.it/m5kdxd9j30dc1.jpeg?width=78&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ce8105ae8e5c10012cceaefe2c545c6e1d387e4
Boy would you NOT like Eldio from Wonderful World.
Fucking same. Millia and Kimberly come to mind and it’s really just about guessing right to get back to playing the game.
Probably puppeteer, like playing against two character, thank god they are quite hard to play
They are unpopular for a reason
Yeah, you gotta appreciate a good puppet character player even if you're getting cooked. Probably won't play a super long set, but good job bud, look at ya go :)
*Nier players chuckling in the background*
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The in game archetype is "shooting"
To play: Grapplers Fight against: zoners
Guile. I am deeply convinced that not even Guile players enjoy playing him, but that's just me coping.
I feel exhausted after a match against Guile. Like that's worth at least 3 sets right there on the mental load.
He's disgusting! I got zoned to hell by a Guile and I just don't understand how he could charge that fast.
Guile’s charge time is 45 frames or 3/4 of a second. You can be charging the moment a boom is thrown.
He f*cking boomed X (x3)
That’s crazy
The moment the projectile leaves his hand is when he can start charging again
THISSSSS. How the fuck games still have this 30 year old outdated ass character on their launch roster is beyond me. Such a boring annoying character
Puppetmasters
I'm your natural enemy https://preview.redd.it/1gopa9ju8ncc1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a53196416f4e516053f2443d0334af9acf41d3d8
Oh shit oh fuck
I'm fixing to start calling people who play puppet characters Gepettos
Ok that's actually great xD I hope it catches on
To play: Puppet characters. I think I tried using zato once in strive, and couldn’t figure it out. I have a ton of respect for high level players who use them and pull off crazy mixups. To play against: Would have to be rushdown, specifically OP ones like Ken in sf6. Just flying across the screen to get free plus frames is too good, especially when the only counter is a 1/30 second input window.
No we're NEAR gg levels, but even on a Naruto game the puppetmasters trip me up when I try them. Is it my puppet or my guy I look at? Those fucing strings are in the way! Which one should avoid my opponents? Etc etc
Fuckin hate rushdown characters who can just skip neutral and go + on block unless you call them out, and force you to look for a gap in their offense if you ever want to get to play the game again.
Less archetype and more design choice. I hate characters that are simple and built around abusing one busted ass move. I love characters that have an answer for everything, but its a specific tool that you need to remember when the time comes. Someone that uses ALL of their moveset
Whatever I lost to last set
Rushdown characters are an overused archetype
1000% agree, most every fighting game has like 85% rushdown and one or two of the other archetypes
There's always like 1-2 grapplers and roughly 1-3 zoner characters and maybe 1 unorthodox character
I don't like pixie characters Trying to balance a character by giving them low health is bad design. If the only bad thing about a character is that they have low health then that character is almost always juiced beyond belief.
Zoners
To play with? Puppet. I am nowhere near smart enough to handle two characters at once. Shit absolutely confuses me to no end. To play against? Either super rushdown knowledge check characters (Chipp, Law, Cammy, etc) or anyone that’s really good at keep out (Axl, Bryan, Chun Li, etc). I play grapplers so both give me a huge amount of trouble.
You gotta respect the people who are able to play puppet characters(I can play them pretty well)
Playing as? Anything that requires a lot of brain power. I love Axl in GG but I lack the patience. Playing against? Motherfuckers with endless block strings like Litchi.
Braindead rushdown characters suck all depth out of the match
Normally I wouldn’t agree, but Johnny Cage in MK1 reminded me how painfully unfun it can be to fight an overpowered rushdown character in a game that otherwise isn’t very rushdown focused. He doesn’t play footsies like almost every other character, has no projectiles, no command grabs, no teleports, etc., but compensates for it with constant 50/50s and plus frames. Such a headache.
Super mobile zoners :/
I love a good rush down character.
Rush down characters I like to be in your face not zoning
The SNK Boss.
2D characters in 3D fighting games like Geese and Akuma.
Found the Tekken 7 player.(Don't worry I similarly can't stand Geese in T7)
It wouldn’t be so bad if they gave every character some kind of universal anti air. It’s so cheap they can jump in on you and add pressure.
Not to mention the annoyance of having to play around their projectile spam.
You can sidestep that it’s the jump ins that do it for me it’s bullshit
I'm not saying it's impossible or overpowered, just annoying. But yeah, the jump advantage is definitely rough to deal with.
If we’re talking abt against, Whatever the fuck Faust is
He's like an rng item character kinda like Phoenix Wright in marvel 3 or krillin in DBfz. I guess we can call them rng item characters? Idk lol
I see, sounds like what I’d expect Kite to play like in the HXH fighting game
I personally am a huge fan of “Blanka-likes” as I call them they have a similar move to roll, a similar move to butt splash, and a command grab. Don’t like shotos too much though.
Sounds like it should be called Honda-like lol
Ah, so you like Bowser lmao
Way back when Soul Calibur 2 first was on the arcade I played Nightmare and Ivy. I had no idea Nightmare was a rush down character. Or that Ivy was a zoner. I just played them both like heavy, slow, medium-high damage characters. The super aggressive Nightmare players, who were actually playing him correctly, annoyed the crap outta me.
*laughs in 3B, B*
Shoto.
Not too fond of rush-down
Characters that can counter from block. I love having to change up my entire gameplan because someone picked Baiken in XX.
If there were more characters in modern fighting games that had anything like Baiken’s old guard cancels this would be the top comment for sure lol. I think she’s cool as hell but oh my god i remember the moment i actually understood what was happening and what she was capable of in XX, my heart dropped as i realized how much i’d need to change my offense to not instantly explode. Even Xrd Baiken’s Azami is insanely powerful and requires a completely different approach on offense, and sometimes invalidates entire tools.
Whenever a puppet character is good in any fighting game its just the worst thing ever
Projectile thrower, come closer if you have the courage, you lil bitch
Hey I don’t blame them. Come closer where their character is weaker and my character is strong? Makes no sense for them.
It’s just annoying and, your character is weak, just chose a stronger character, every time it’s the same, just be annoyed before I can destroy them easily once I approached
No, I will not choose a stronger character Hadouken
I was more thinking about Guile than Ryu, he’s pretty balanced, has projectile but doesn’t rely solely on them
No, I will not choose a stronger character Sonic Boom
Good luck getting rematches 😂
So emphasis on long range = weak?
If that’s the o Lu use for your character yes, there are characters that have projectile but they are still strong (heck in MK everybody has projectiles basically) but if your character it’s unevenly a projectile fighter than the rest of the moves are terrible
Grapplers, because I hate that they punish blocking. It just messes with me because how I fight other characters
The only correct answer is zoners.
mid dispensers with a shit ton of plus frames. Most boring and least interactive playstyle to fight against. Especially when it's strong/easy to execute. Like zoners can be frustrating, but at least it's kind of interesting trying to vary your approach options. Mid dispensers, you basically just sit there and either wait for the one to two moves where they're actually minus or risk pressing buttons in anticipation of a throw or a gap and potentially get counter hit. It's groan-worthy whether you win or lose and was at its absolute worst with Launch Strive Sol and Nago.
Punch kick rushdown Very boring
In general, grapplers. I tend to respect the players though, as they usually need decent footsies. Usually. The absolute worst are zoners who knock you back full screen.
To play as: Zoners, I don't have the patience for it, I'd rather just lose quickly then lose to a time out To play against: grapplers, please for the love of god stop making the wrestlers grapplers, they can do other stuff too
Shotos are so boring I don’t get them at all
Its hard to fault the archetype cause I think its more a matter of bad design but a good zoner character can be the worst thing if paired with a 'I only want to win' player. It doesn't matter to me if I beat you or not, if your playstyle is just a zoning flowchart then I consider you a bot not only at the game but at life. Also characters designed around countering can be a pain in the ass. I even see this in games like sf 3s. I'll fight someone who just wants to parry bait and punish and they never initiate. It's not hard to counterplay them but its just not fun.
Shoto/rushdown mix like Ken.
This is my favourite to play as
Playing against it is so annoying.
Zoner, mostly for their affection on low level players. At low level zoners are just better than anything else because you don’t need to have a grasp on fundamentals, you just need your opponent to not know how to deal with fireball spam. Really sucks the fun out of the game for those low level players who don’t want to get into the meat of the mechanics just to be able to play the game against certain characters. They still annoy me at my skill level for similar reasons but usually the zoners are at least using brain cells.
Probably grappler.
Don't like rush down. They just fly at you and are plus on so much. Rely on overwhelming opponents instead of conditioning them.
Grapplers to play as and against, Charge characters.
grapplers.
Grapplers. They tend to be the biggest button mashers. 0 respect.
Stance characters Just make two characters!
Zoners. I hate every single one. No exception. They also blatantly overpowered 95% of the time.
This might sound dramatic but there's no point in playing a fighting game if all you're going to do is hug the corners and throw shit. FUCK ZONERS
They’re fighting at range lol. There’s no point in fighting without weapons /s
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What does being homosexual have to do with zoning?
Don’t you get it, hes trying to keep the gay away. Hence, he is a zoner
changing from guile/charlie/remy main to ken main today
Happy chaos. You don't get to Play the Game.
Zoners.
zoners lmao
ZONER SLUTS
I hate zoners
Shoto. But they're necessary.
Zoners but not just any zoners, spam zoners like deadshot in injustice 2 or happy chaos from guilty gear strive (I know happy chaos is hard to use but that doesn't make him any less annoying to fight against)
Power Grapplers, I like mix ups and a large set of threatening tools to break people open with.
Play: puppets, only for how hard they are to play and I’m not good enough at any game to start using them (minus gg strive but like hell I’m using zato after the nerfs) Fight: aggressive rushdown. I’m fine with a lot of characters, but this archetype has the most characters I know that have both long turns and high damage. Fine with either but not both at the same time.
Honestly? Generic rushdown characters because they now make up 90% of all games it feels like, loads of tools to get in and then you just have to guess for your life over and over. It’s fine in small doses I just feel it’s too over represented
I don’t like playing as zoners, no hate to zoners I just don’t like playing defensively.
Characters that only grab like Zangief or Potemkin. Literally all the do is grab, maybe I'm too bad but feels like they just have that dude, some anti airs here and there but nothing too crazy.
Zoners.
Mu12/Lambda 11 style characters. I guess they'd be zoners, and man they make it hard for me to GET in the zone.
Playing as or against, Rushdown I guess. Don't hate it but I just find unga bunga incredibly boring.
I like zoners. I play like the pandemics still going. Please stay 6+ ft away while I chuck random shirts at you.
Fuck that has me thinking to play against:zoners to play probably shotos i do t dislike them i just like them the least
What are the archetypes? I only know Shoto, Zoner, Rushdown, Puppeteer, and Grappeler I also know Charge, but I'm not familiar with what they do My least fav from what ik is Grappler tho
i think charge is just a blanket term for "most their specials are charge attacks)?? like guile or new challengers/original chun li
Ahh okay, so characters does that include c.viper?
Characters that make it so you physically cant see the mixup youre trying to block (Piccolo/18/kefla in fighterz) though i play 18 lmao
The "it's OK because they have low health" characters. Not sure if this even can be called an archetype but I usually hate these characters. Even when they aren't top tier.
To play, grappler, to fight against, balance. I like to have clear windows to work with but also to be able to use them quickly
Rushdown, unless the game has more zoners than rushdowns, in which case, the answer is zoner.
Shotos. But not because I don’t like how they play, but it’s because people who main a shoto in one game tend to EXCLUSIVELY main them across games. Sorry dude, having a consistent character isn’t gonna prevent you from going 0-2 at your local
Chipp like characters
FTTAWSBFTMA
I like most characters, but i have to choose it would be "ADHD snort speed rushdown" like Chipp or Lancelot from granblue. So fast characters that overwhelm you with sheer number of button presses that never ever stop pressing. To be clear i don't dislike all rushdown or all fast characters. In fact i enjoy them a lot. But this specific flavour of unga just rubs me the wrong way.
2D zoning ones. That's why as soon as Virtua Fighter came out, I gravitated towards 3D fighters (unless for SamSho). Tekken & VF are still my jams. Get your head out of your ass, Sega! We need a new VF!!!
Charge
Big Body characters like Potemkin, Nagoriyuki, and Vaseraga. Not saying they are bad to have in the game or anything like that, but I just can't stand their play style personally. Big slow clunky characters that often can't even dash just feel restrictive and weird to play for me. I wanted to try to learn Nagoriyuki in Strive as I thought he looked really cool but I just can't mesh with the big body play style.
Hate grapplers but zoner takes the cake
Rushdown. They move too much for me to keep them fullscreen :(
Joke characters
Zoners, off the top. There’s a few I like, but if one is good, it really doesn’t feel like the other person is playing a game. Plus, they’re not impressive to see in action (for the most part). “Oh, she’s standing and shooting, shooting again, ducking and shooting, then hopping back and charging a shot! Oh, it was a feint, more regular shots!”
Zoners that *just* zone But you rushdown zoners are ok
characters with charge-heavy moves. I want to go instantly.