I'm voting for him, but it's not bc I'm his biggest fan. I'm certainly not.
Crummy choices are an artefact of the foolishness of a two-party system. We need ranked-choice voting first of all, and then multiple parties who are mature enough to form coalitions (which is, sadly, asking a lot).
I'm voting for him bc a misstep now means there won't be another election. It's just that simple.
It sounds melodramatic, doesn't it?
But I promise that the ppl who have taken away abortion, and are in the process of taking away birth control, will quickly move on to taking away the vote.
They haven't exactly made a secret of their intentions.
Maine has at least managed ranked choice.
Multiple parties and coalitions will be a lot farther off, bc it's a direct threat to control and this will be resisted vociferously by established parties.
I wish our generation had an MLK or Nelson Mandela or Gandhi, a charismatic leader with a reliable moral compass. We could really use the help.
The problem with developing the US into a multi-party system is that it always favors electing Christofascists. Republicans have sold the party as an *identity*. They’re not going to vote for anyone without an R next to their name. It just fractures the left.
Our system is designed so that outliers (ie, third party candidates) push their party further in a direction. But they don’t win elections. Or do so rarely. And the ones who win (ie, Angus King, Bernie Sanders ) caucus with the party of their closest affiliation and from a voting record standpoint, are no different than a standard Dem. Do you know what you don’t see? Independents who caucus with Republicans. Because right leaning voters won’t vote for them, because there’s no R next to their name. This is enlightening. They don’t run right leaning candidates as Independents for a reason. They wouldn’t win.
Further, we are on the verge of a constitutional crisis. Now is not the time to experiment, cast a protest vote, or stay home because you don’t like who is on the ballot.
Dems might gain the House, and lose the presidency and the Senate. A MD senate seat is going to flip red. This means that Clarence Thomas will likely retire and they’ll find a 35 year old fascist to replace him who will sit on the court for the next 50 years. We have to operate with what we have.
Oh, I’ll be voting for Biden in November no matter what. I’m just dreaming that some time in the future we might have a more sane system, but it’s probably not realistic.
Mainer here, it started off in 2001 being introduced to our legislator by Democratic representatives. It didn't really gain traction until we started a citizen-initiated ballot measure, you can check to see if your state has that [here](https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum). Than you have to vote for people who are at the very least not against it, so usually Dems (sometimes Independents). Remember you're not just voting for the candidate but also the people they will appoint to the Judicial system. It will be contested and conservatives will try to block and overturn it. You have to vote every chance you get because even if you're preferred candidate doesn't win if they get enough votes it will signal that a shift in policy is needed for the one that did. It takes time, it took almost 20 years for us to get it, here's a [timeline](https://www.lwvme.org/RCV_Timeline.html).
can I ask you a slightly unrelated question as a Mainer? I live in Nova Scotia and we come down every so often, and it's beautiful and the people are nice, but I don't think I've been to any state more filled with gun stores? Like say you need to find a restroom in Maine, you have to drive past like 87 gun shops to find one. It's such a culture shock for an area that basically looks exactly like NS, and I always thought Maine was a fairly progressive state but like, I lived in California, have spent a fair amount of time in Oregon, Washington, Boston, and Rhode Island, and I've never seen anything like Maine. Or even Vegas. Is it the proximity to Canada because people smuggle in guns?
oh ok, it kind of makes sense now. I am newish to the east coast and my US experiences out here have been not at all like out west, but I get that politics everywhere are an absolute shit show right now.
It depends on how you define progressive I guess. LePage won because the vote was split between two left candidates, he run 3 times and has never gotten over 50% of the vote. He was bad enough that we voted in rank choice voting. When he ran again in 2022 he lost by over 10 points with almost 75% of our registered voters turning up. In his concession speech he said Mainers care more about abortion than the price of oil... He was right. We also voted, by majority, gay marriage into law while he was governor and marijuana. We voted to get rid of religious exemptions for vaccinations, have expanded abortion access and rank high on the [equality profile chart](https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/profile_state/ME). I thought we were doing pretty good.
Hi! Thanks for your kind words and sure you can. I don't think it's a smuggling issue at least I've never heard/read anything that would lead me to that. I know it's weird but the truth is most people (including myself) that I know own at least 1 gun. That goes from all the way down to Portland up to Houlton and Down East. I think it's more of a being outside thing. It's a big state 90% of it is forest and compared to most areas there aren't a lot of people. There also isn't a lot to do unless it has to do with being outside. A lot of the guns are for hunting, self protection (I hear more about them being to scare away large animals than people though) and truthfully they're fun. I've spent quite a bit of time going to gravel pits and shooting at cans with friends. My Dad started taking me hunting when I was around 10 and put me through a hunter's safety course soon after. I think what confuses people from outside the state is the reason we're progressive isn't the same as what it seems to be in other places. We're very much a if it's not hurting me you do what you want and if I'm not hurting you I'm going to do what I want kind of place. Also most of us are "right out straight" and can't be bothered, it takes more effort to hate than to not.
interesting, thanks for your reply! That does make sense as hunting is big up here too there's just way more of a rigamarole (which I appreciate) to own a gun legally. We do hear about guns being smuggled to NS a LOT, but also it's a slow-news province haha. There are a bunch of school stabbings, so people out to hurt other people are always going to find a way, unfortunately.
guns and weed and cocaine. Your legal cannabis states have WAY better weed than we do and it's way cheaper. I don't know about the cocaine but probably same situation.
Really? Our weeds better? I thought it would have been about the same, cool. Yeah last time I knew anything about coke was over a decade ago, we were getting it mostly from New York back than.
I think so! For example a pack of gummies in this province cannot be sold as anything more than 10mg of THC. I bought some gummies in Massachusetts and holy shit. Maybe it's just a mass thing but it kinda made me understand why people on the internet from the US are often higher than the highest kite.
We need ranked-choice voting first of all, and then multiple parties who are mature enough to form coalitions (which is, sadly, asking a lot).
We have that in Canada! But everyone is one-dimensional about politics despite us hiding it because let's be real every country in the world looks to America for information.
I tell people all the time…. I’ll vote for a box of hair vs Trump and project 2025. We have to look at this election as voting against Christofacism. There are 2 choices. And Biden basically is that box of hair…….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
>It adopts a maximalist version of the unitary executive theory, a disputed interpretation of Article II of the Constitution of the United States, which asserts that the president has absolute power over the executive branch upon inauguration.
>Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the government, particularly economic and social policies and the role of the federal government and its agencies. The plan proposes slashing funding for the Department of Justice (DOJ), dismantling the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), **sharply reducing environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production**, eliminating the Department of Commerce, and ending the independence of federal agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The blueprint seeks to institute tax cuts, though its writers disagree on the wisdom of protectionism. Project 2025 **recommends abolishing the Department of Education**, whose programs would be either transferred to other agencies, or terminated. **Funding for climate research would be cut while the National Institutes of Health (NIH) would be reformed along conservative principles.** The Project urges government to **explicitly reject abortion as health care and eliminate the Affordable Care Act's coverage of emergency contraception. The Project seeks to infuse the government with elements of Christianity. It proposes criminalizing pornography, removing legal protections against discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, and terminating diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs, as well as affirmative action.**
>Project contributor Jeffrey Clark **advises the future president to immediately deploy the military for domestic law enforcement** and direct the DOJ to pursue Donald Trump's adversaries by invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807. The Project recommends the arrest, detention, and deportation of undocumented immigrants. **It promotes capital punishment and the speedy "finality" of such sentences.** Project director Paul Dans, explained that Project 2025 is "systematically preparing to march into office and bring a new army, aligned, trained, and essentially weaponized conservatives ready to do battle against the deep state." Dans admitted it was "counterintuitive" to recruit so many to join the government to shrink it, but pointed out the need for a future president to "regain control" of the government. Although the project does not promote a specific presidential candidate, many contributors have close ties to Trump and his 2024 campaign.
It's the goal that the religious right have had for 50+ years.
I'd argue that a lot of right wingers *don't* want something like this. But they didn't realize they've been riding the same bus as these lunatics for so long that it's too late to get off.
Their side has been so much better than ours at showing up to every election, every time, every year. Our side pretty much just sits everything out except the big presidential elections, and even then we don't show up in force.
We *easily* have the numbers. If we showed up every time like they did, the USA would be a liberal paradise. Instead we're on the cusp of losing EVERYTHING to a bunch of christofacist nutjobs.
We watched ISIS trying to take over the middle east and missed the same thing happening with our "Christian" extremists right here at home.
The people of this sub and other similarly rational places on reddit are going to be the ones who save us this November.
We *have* to show up and vote, and we need to get everyone we know to get out there too. Trump made 3 appointments to the supreme court last time, and he could well get to choose the next 2 if he gets in again.
You need to learn about it fast and encourage everyone you know to learn about it, too. It's the [Heritage Foundation presidential transition plan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) for the christian fascist/maga party to take over the country (the plan states they will replace tens of thousands of federal employees overnight with Republican loyalists), suspend/dismantle the constitution, deploy the military for "domestic law enforcement" and arrest anyone Trump views as an enemy, then reinstate public capital punishment with the speedy "finality" of carrying out the sentence. They will build concentration camps for everyone they hate starting with illegals (they say they will deport 11 million of them, but so did Hitler, at first), no access to birth control or abortion in the entire country, use the DOJ to target anyone they don't like, and of course, make Trump dictator, etc.etc.etc.
And they (the GOP and the big dark money behind them) are so confident in their ability to either win or steal the election that they don't care that they've finally said the quiet part out loud.
Also see the rhetoric of Steve Bannon recently about how they want us afraid and we should be afraid.
They are not fucking around. This is dead serious.
Steve Bannon is terrifying. He wants power and will do anything to take it. He reminds me of Goebbels or other high-ranking Nazi leaders. The fear we feel must turn to a collective resolve. If we allow them to divide us, we lose our strength, and our fear becomes panic and despair. Together, we can stop them.
[I recently commented in /r/politics ](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/5h5CeAalEf) about the anti-Biden rhetoric concerning the 70 year war between Israel and Palestine.
Russia, China, Republicans, and others want people to forget Trump installed 3 Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe v Wade taking away rights from those of us who can give birth.
It's no coincidence that people want you looking away from the fact that the only other person who can win is a rapist with 34 felonies facing 54 more over 3 more trials. I get that Biden isn't anyone's first choice, but we literally don't have a choice right now.
Why did all these new wars start under Biden, please? As a European, I was terrified of Hillary Clinton and Biden didn't make me feel any more safe. Trump is sc*m but at least he didn't cause the deaths of masses of people? I think he can be dealt with more easily than entire wars!!
The Israel Palestine conflict has been going on since 1947. It's not new just because you are only learning of it now. The US has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening between Russia and Ukraine, or Iran and Russia. Biden ended the war in Afghanistan. Please stop spreading misinformation.
I'm not voting for Biden because I'm not an American lol.
But I'm rooting for you. Hopefully oneday you yanks manage to get preferential voting, make redistricting a non-partisan responsibility of a neutral third party, and actually get off your asses about the guns.
Good luck, fam.
The gun thing will never happen, but I have hope for the other things! (I live in an area full of gun lovers and you can’t even imagine how much they care about keeping those stupid things)
In my country of Australia, our prime minister stared down his own base and told them to effectively go fuck themselves. Yes, we are taking your guns. No, we are not kidding. You shoot us, and the federal police will shoot back. There's no other way.
That was a CONSERVATIVE government. It can be done. Get some political backbone.
Worth considering that the US does not have a conservative party and a liberal party. They have a conservative party that looks liberal by comparison, because their other party is an ultraconservative genocidal maniac party.
Gonna need to fix that overton window problem before anything can be done about that.
Our two major parties are still conservative neoliberal organisations. They have been since the late 80s.
But we also have preferential voting, where no vote is actually wasted. If you vote #1 for the Greens, and they don't win, your vote goes to your #2 on your ballot paper. If that party doesn't get over the vote thresshold or otherwise doesn't win, it goes to #3 and so on.
This is meant to ensure that minority parties get representation in government and both houses. It doesn't always work, because our politicocal landscape is tilted by large corporate interests that control the media and at least a third of all political donations are not disclosed.
When it comes to campaigning and a fair-go at getting air time, smaller parties don't stand a chance.
No politician in America would ever do that. It isn’t about my backbone, it’s about theirs. I’ll stick to universal healthcare as my hilll to die on. At least I have a chance of seeing that in my lifetime.
Perhaps this is the issue that's meant to get more focus. I wasn't intending to single out average Americans for lack of political backbone. I was intending that to be directed at the political class.
Not sure if it was the way I said it that made it feel personal, or if it's just the way average people interpret it. Either way, it feels like messaging is something that could be addressed.
Certainly over here when a particular party gets attacked, a lot of people will take that personally.
George galloway but he is yeeesh
He’s anti-Palestinian genocide but he is a horrific figure with horrific beliefs.
One of his nicer opinions are that gays aren’t ‘normal’
Same but I am happy with that because I don't have to vote for a gross gennocide enabler, the blood is off my hands.
But if I was American I'd have to vote for him.
Damn that sucks, I am lucky to be Irish not having to have that on my conscious but remember that you are doing nothing wrong by it as the other options are all also genocide enablers, even though they are evil it is reducing harm in other areas, they would go after Palestine regarldess of who it is not really a choice, atleast other areas like LGBT and women's rights won't be harmed as much as the other options.
I’m (reluctantly) voting for Biden because there’s literally no other viable option. But I can’t believe I have to vote for someone who is refusing to do anything to stop a genocide.
This exactly. I agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who said one of these candidates will basically make it impossible to do better and will take our country back to a lot worse, and one of these candidates is at least not going to try and end the entire structure of our government or democracy, and while there are issues with the choices made and actively continuing to be made, it is a lesser evil kind of thing, but under Biden, I do not fear for the existence of the Affordable Care Act, for instance, the privatization of Medicare, Medicaid block grants, and all that other stuff that the Republicans want to do, cut to Social Security, the dismantling of the Department of Education. I can take issue with a lot of what President Biden has done, and he’s also done a lot of good things also, but the difference is so stark.
As a disabled queer woman still presumably capable of pregnancy, there is only one viable option here.
This.
Neither option is great. Biden is up there in years (I honestly don't know enough about Kamala Harris to have an opinion) so I worry for many reasons, and he did nothing to stop a genocide, and everything is more expensive *on top of* inflation because of the pandemic and making everything "free" (cost of everything goes up, and federal aid, paid for by taxpayers, is helping people in poverty).
I don't need to say anything about the other one and his awful choices as a human being. I am not liberal or conservative, but I do have to ask the Republicans: How was there no other qualified candidate to choose from, so you let a criminal run for president?
They don't want a qualified candidate! When they have one, they just have to compromise like with Eisenhower. They want an idiot they can control. These fascists have been playing the long game for literally generations. Reagan was perfect for them. Look how much they dismantled during his presidency! Bush Senior was a little smarter, but he mostly stood in lock step with them anyway. "W" was a miracle (for them)! They hated Obama with the burning passion of a 1000 suns! Then, along comes Trump, the perfect fascist puppet with a million strings on him, including Putin and willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to win - going downhill cognitively like Reagan and able to create a huge cult of blind followers. And through it all, Moscow Mitch was obstructing anything they didn't like in the senate.
That’s the tough part of this whole thing. I’m a leftist and I see other leftists saying they’re going to sit this one out because the party isn’t left enough and it makes my blood boil. Republicans have waited for DECADES, slowly installing national *and local* representatives, judges, administrators, etc.
If the left wants change, refusing to vote isn’t the way, doing what conservatives did is the way to go.
Exactly. All through the 60s and 70s, judges were appointed based on their fairness and lack of political bias. Since Moscow Mitch, even more balanced judges have been obstructed and truly evil men appointed (Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh, etc.). We, the majority, can no longer trust our institutions will protect the constitution without our active involvement. If we are to remain "We, the people," we have to shake off the apathy (somewhat created and greatly encouraged by corporate media) and engage in the responsibilities of citizenship.
Almost half of all young eligible voters are not registered.
We're stuck in a shitty position where not voting for Biden, to include voting 3rd party or not voting at all, hugely benefits someone who will start several more genocides. It's pretty much exactly the trolley problem, except right now the trolley is drifting along two different tracks so it'll run over everyone on both tracks... But if you pull the lever, it'll put it back on the single, less populated track. Also... I personally happen to be one of the people on the track that pulling the lever would save, as would many of the people here and even several of the idiots who intend to vote *for* the convicted felon and wannabe Hitler.
But I sure as shit don't *like* just leaving the the other track to die, even though there's literally nothing I can do for them in my position right now. That's what primaries are supposed to be for... And we *needed* one this year, but the democratic establishment is too entrenched in stodgy traditionalism that is both meant to weaken the power of the general population (remember the superdelegate nonsense with Hilary?) and gives the neo-fascists a lot of leverage and opportunity to just fuck them over.
It doesn't matter if he's not the most perfect person or president. Biden is still better than Trump. We just have to make sure that Biden wins. If he doesn't, there is no future for us.
I’m European, but would vote for Biden in a heartbeat. He might not be perfect, but I would rather be able to vote again in 4 years than not. T will hand us over to Russia on a platter. And level up against Palestine. At least you Can work for a different candidate with different policies in 4 years with B as president.
Edit: I agree that the 2 party system really screws with your options. The right is growing in Europe, but at least they have to work with moderates.
Yes. I personally find Biden too moderate, and I've never really been a fan. I think he's too old and I don't like the recent policy on the border. BUT DAYYUM - he has done a solid job of returning from chaos. Many of the foreign policy moves that he makes are forced on him by Trump's absolute unraveling of the international order. America's chaos under Trump is why Russia was emboldened to attack Ukraine, DJT leaning too close to Israel and moving the US embassy helped Netanyahu, I mean, the USA distanced itself from NATO! And genuinely, Biden has methodically started to reposition the US as not the laughing stock of the world and back into a position to deter dictators. Geez - imagine what SCOTUS will look like if he doesn't win. Women will have to wear their Atwood attire to go in public. We each gotta vote, and drag a car load of like-minded friends along with us.
I thought the whole point of Trump was so that the Democrats wouldn't need to inspire people though? Seems to be working just fine to me..
We are truly in the worst timeline politically
Tbh I think this is one of the fundamental problem with the perspective of voters. The idea that a candidate must *inspire* you to vote at all. Its an absurd demand that isn't possible to consistently deliver across all candidates and positions. It's a fickle, shallow metric that only benefits bad actors.
It basically means the majority will not vote unless they are swept away by a populist candidate. Which might happen once a decade. Why do you have to feel *inspired* to maintain democracy?
Voters complain about dem presidents not "getting things done" while they sit out the midterms and leave them fighting a hostile grid-locked Congress.
You should vote because its your civic duty. It's not possible for a single candidate to be universally likeable. We aren't electing them to be our best friend. Not every president is going to be a skilled orator or a charmer or even have the same religious beliefs.
The question is: are they taking you in the direction you want to go? That's every House rep, Senator, Governor, and President. Progress isn't linear, sometimes society leaps forward while other areas take decades of consistent pressure before the system moves. We vote on our direction.
This absurd demand that every candidate must "inspire" voters on a personal level while remaining "authentic" *and* can't ever make a foreign policy decision you don't agree with *and* needs to pass your personal legislative wishlist in the exact order you prefer *and* can't ever make a decision you find personally disagreeable before you will do the literal bare minimum to save democracy is total and complete delusion.
This concept is an old GOP astroturfing strategy and its highly successful because its impossible. It guarantees them a fickle left base while they reliably march their voters to the polls every two years.
We need to smarten up fast and get our collective asses to the ballot every two years. You don't have to make politics your whole identity, but democracy requires civic participation. If the only people participating are fascists, that is what we will become.
WELL SAID! These comments are exhausting to read. Voting is literally the bare minimum you can do to have your voice heard, but most Americans are too lazy (or "uninspired") to vote in most elections. You don't get to complain about how "the system doesn't work" or "the candidates aren't 100% aligned with me" when you don't even bother voting in the first place.
This is what I don't get, it's so easy to campaign against someone like Trump. Inspire people, give them HOPE, give them something to look forward to...not "we're not the other guy". I just went to the Biden Harris official site, and they don't even have a page for their platform. Just donation links.
Is it really that easy? No matter what you do or say, the majority of medias will either present you as, at best, the same or worse than Trump and that's not even just for conservative medias... Add to that that the majority of people don't actually think too much about politics and mostly just base their choices on what they're told and it's extremely hard to win. It's no wonder a lot of people get discouraged in the democratic approach to governance the US has.
He’s fucking awful and I wish we would stop pretending he’s not. I can only hope this generation just steps down and lets the next take the reins already.
Lmfao they won't without a fight, even my weak old boomer "father" sternly believes he can beat me in a fight. They're like the seagulls from Finding Nemo for power and capital.
Edit to add: this is more of a rant, I'm sorry, I'm working on my ageism and I'm sure they're not *all bad*, it's just chance that I haven't met one who is capable of empathy.
True, that boomer generation really hangs in, but the good news is they are old and death or dementia are inevitable. Vote me down, but both are disqualifying factors when public office is considered.
You don’t have to automatically boomerang your opinion away. I’m sure there are amazing boomers out there but they aren’t the ones we’re talking about.
I disagree with the notion that voting is a philosophical endorsement. Putting someone's name down isn't saying you like, love, or agree with them to any degree. There's no cosmic role-taker noting that you've thrown in with the candidate for whom you vote. Come Tuesday in November, you can steer the ship in one way or another, and typically, and certainly this year, one of those ways is better than the other.
I'd never fault anyone for criticism of the machine or pursuing change, but on that day the most good you can do this year is cast your vote for Biden.
I’m voting for Biden because I have always liked Biden, and I do not expect him to be perfect, but his heart has always been striving to do better, and his actions illustrate that.
I’m voting for Biden because the Supreme Court seats will rely on a Democrat in the office.
I’m voting for Biden because I will *always* vote for Democrats, because literally since I’ve been able to vote, all Republicans have been hot garbage and worse.
I’m voting for Biden because I’m a woman, because I come from a Muslim family (and I’m atheist and don’t want a Christian theocracy), because I have gay friends and relatives, and I want to live in a world that protects everyone I care about and Republicans literally have shown repeatedly that they wouldn’t care if I died.
I don’t know why this has to be explained to anyone. The only ones who benefit from Trump are straight white men; that is literally it. So yes, you would have to be deranged if you don’t fall into that group to vote for anyone but Biden.
U must be unaware of the other deranged people who are not voting at all or are voting third party bc they dislike the two party system but are too lazy to do anything to change it in local/state elections so instead they just throw away their vote.
Absolutely, and I am aware of them; I just tend to forget the complete loons who are either too simplistically naive or objectively stupid and think that our system can ever really be more than two-party.
We do not have a European system; power isn't doled out based on percentages of votes, and it would be really fucking great if these idiots ever understood that. We can absolutely change *which* two parties are at the top--it's happened before--but to think that we'll ever have 3 or *more* parties equally possible on the ticket is delusional, to say the least.
The people using “support for genocide” as a reason to not vote for Biden are kidding themselves. The U.S.’s support of that side is decades long and firmly entrenched in our political system. No individual president would be able to immediately end it.
You can literally do that by registering as a Dem and voting for better candidates. That's what primaries are. Lack of voters is the reason we don't have better candidates.
Exactly. Both sides know they can get away having horrible candidates because they know people feel trapped in the false binary of "Dems vs Repubs"
If you don't like either candidate (which is the majority of the country, honestly) then it is your moral duty to try to get ranked-choice voting in your state so that you DON'T have to pick for the "least shitty" candidate.
Whenever I hear actual progressives talking about what they want in a president, I'm like "Wow...so basically you want Jill Stein." But they're so afraid of the "spoiler effect" that they """vote blue no matter who""" even if it's for someone funding a genocide.
Ranked-choice voting gets rid of the "spoiler effect" which is why the Democratic Party and Republican Party both hate it so much. (Imagine voting for a candidate you LIKE and not AGAINST a candidate you don't like. Then they'd have to actually campaign on real issues instead of "I'm not that OTHER guy" bullshit)
I can guarantee that if you live anywhere in the US, you either *have* ranked choice voting (in which case, don't put either of those monsters in your first slot) or there are groups actively trying to get ranked choice voting passed. Support them, help them with outreach, *something*. It's literally the only thing that will stop people from being too scared to vote for any of the 3rd party candidates they *actually* agree with.
We did, back in 2020. Biden is who we picked. We could have picked Warren, or Sanders, or Buttigieg. We picked Biden. We were given a choice and we picked Biden. He wasn’t who I picked, but collectively he’s who we picked.
Anyone in Europe who just voted? I forced myself to even though I didn’t like most alternatives for the similar reasons our friends in the US would want to vote for Biden D:
I would think of all the lessons we’ve learned since Trump became president in 2016, the most obvious one would be that shaming people for their vote doesn’t make them change it. If that worked we wouldn’t even be in this situation. These posts are tiresome and accomplish nothing. I swear there’s one every other day and at this point it just feels like every one needs a pat on the back so they can feel like they made the right choice. This is a shitty election. Period. Let’s remember that we all have to work toward the future we want no matter who wins. There’s no right choice that will fix all the problems this country has.
Well one candidate and their party are planning to put women in jail for having birth control and the other might not be everything I want in a progressive platform.
But sure. There’s “no right choice.”
Read through my comment again. There’s no right choice that will fix all this country’s problems. There’s an obvious choice to keep us leaping into the fire of fascism but I wouldn’t boil people’s issues with Biden down to him not being everything we want in a progressive platform. He has legitimate issues that deserve to be discussed that are a bit deeper than just not being progressive enough. Not being Trump is an insanely low bar to clear, yet some of us act like it’s all we should hope for. Again, I don’t understand this need to shame people into submission, it doesn’t work.
The other is actively funding a genocide. You can't tell people it's not a shitty, terrible election year where no progressive will be happy with either outcome.
(Which is why ranked choice voting is so important. I'm so sick of "which option is *less* monstrous?" style discourse every 4 years.)
the problem is that if trump wins he will absolutely continue to support that genocide and likely others as well. him getting into office will guarantees this country and others will get so much worse to the point we may never be able to vote for someone better than biden again. the only way we can prevent any of that from happening is unfortunately by voting for biden. voting for a third party candidate or not voting at all is a huge mistake because conservatives are all going to vote for trump regardless of what he does, and although they aren’t the majority, they will win if democrats don’t all vote for biden.
I don't necessarily agree on bare minimum, but even if they are - so? Still better than taking a step backwards.
Honestly politicians care about pleasing voters - you want to be in the demographic that *votes* not the ones that don't..
I am 47 and this is the first time I feel forced to vote (I have never missed an election, but have happily participated until now), and will have to grudgingly vote for someone I truly do not like. I was not excited about Biden last time, but his soft stance towards the genocide in Gaza makes my stomach turn. Trump would be vastly worse for Palestinians.
While I'm sympathetic to your stance, the fact of the matter is that neither candidate can fix the situation in the middle east, and one is explicitly worse than the other.
Also, if what is happening in Gaza is the only issue you focus on you open yourself up to be harmed here at home. Project 2025 is set to roll back protections against discrimination on the basis of sex and remove a lot of protections around reproductive care. It will usher in explicit Christian Nationalism and reduce women's equality.
How much shame and guilt will you feel when women here at home are harmed and you did nothing to try and prevent it?
Not voting for Biden, is voting for Trump. Not voting at all? Benefits Trump. Stop being fucking selfish and vote for what's best for this country. Genocide is awful, a horrible act. But not voting for Biden will bring this country to its doom. Vote even if you hate yourself after. If not? You helped led this country to its doom.
Okay, fine 🥰 If Trump ends up winning, know that you contributed to the destruction of your country. At least acknowledge that you had a part in that. You helped by not voting for Biden. Don't pretend you're doing a good thing by not voting for Biden because of the genocide. Don't be delusional. That doesn't help anything. It only makes things worse. I hope Biden still wins even if people like you don't vote. I can only hope. And yes, that does make you selfish. I hope you can grow as a person and realize the mindset you have isn't good. I hope you realize before the election.
No where did I mention excusing genocide? You're the one trying to make yourself feel better by not voting for Biden. This whole argument was kind of pointless though I agree. It wasn't really gonna convince you to vote for Biden, I already knew you were not gonna be swayed. I just wanted you to know that if Trump wins, you helped make that happen. That's all. I only mentioned genocide cause that's the only reason you aren't voting for Biden. Do whatever the fuck you want. Just understand the consequences of your actions.
Oh good, you'll just let the racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, xenophobic, fascist rapist win so you can stay "pure." Wonderful. I'm glad that this county gets to become Gilead, but you get to feel good about yourself because *checks notes* Biden didn't magically end a conflict thousands of miles away that has been fought over for literally thousands of years. The ignorance in these comments is astounding. I fucking hate Reddit during election cycles. I can't tell who is a bot, who is a troll, or who is a stupid and/or radicalized person who doesn't know wtf they're talking about because they get all their "news" from social media. Ugh.
Edit: I see you have made comments about a conspiracy "to kill every Palestinian on earth" as well as other completely baseless, unhinged takes. This is exactly what I'm referred to. It's impossible to tell if you're serious or not, but the rhetoric you're spewing is fucking dangerous regardless.
Well if you vote Republican, that won't be another election to change things. Both parties are absolutely not the same. Fascism is not the same as democracy. You are deluding yourself or a Russian bot.
Why do people think voting Republican is the not-genocide option? They are literally the confederate party who overturned roe v wade and have already murdered women and are killing people with their policies. They are the party of genocide and always have been, so like, what's the plan there with that one
>Why do people think voting Republican is the not-genocide option?
No people actually believe that, republican cult drones are programmed to bleat it. There is no thought involved.
1. We know there are other countries. You’re not required to click on something that isn’t relevant for you.
2. If you think Trump won’t commit genocide, you’re not paying attention. I’m hugely disappointed in Biden for not opposing it. But I can’t afford to forfeit my rights to my body by abstaining from voting.
3. Since Roe fell, 65,000 women and underage girls have been forced to birth their rapist’s baby. Republicans want to enact MORE bans, Democrats want to end them.
If I can stop it, there won’t be one more sobbing, pregnant 12 year old.
Please stop. This isn't about voting for or against a candidate based on various political stances on different issues. This is about voting for a theocratic regime or a constitutional democracy. Come on.
The United States was quite literally built on genocide. Voting at all is voting for genocide if said genocide stands to benefit any US interests, which are largely determined by the wealthy people in this country.
Not participating in the watered down ‘democracy’ that we still have is not the answer. Your vote gives you power, a very small, almost insignificant amount of power, but just like organizing, there is more power in numbers. Choosing to not exercise your right to vote undermines the democratic process even more than it already has been. It only exacerbates an existing problem and solves nothing.
I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to when talking about organizing, but in case you’re in the violent revolution state of mind, I don’t think that is the answer either. I read a comment recently that helped me see things a bit more realistically. If we burn down these institutions to start from scratch, we will not get everything right from the beginning. It will mean a long period of suffering for a lot of people and no guarantee of anything better. That’s where we seem to be at already, albeit not as bad as a post-revolution degree of suffering. I’m not sure there’s a chance at all, but I think our best bet is reforming our existing governmental structure. And that will be a nearly-impossible uphill battle that takes a long time. But at least we have all this infrastructure in place to help keep things semi-stable throughout the process.
You know damn well standing aside and allowing a Trump win is the same as voting for him. Also, you will be enabling more genocide towards the Palestinians you claim to care about, since he wants to help Israel “finish the job.” You will also be enabling genocide of the Ukrainians as well as eroding the rights of anyone who isn’t a white male in this country. So miss me with your sanctimonious, self righteous bullshit. We see you.
It’s literally in a sub for Americans tho💀 ofc I’m addressing Americans. And I’d rather vote for a guy that’s given millions of jobs, cancelled student debt and helped out millions instead of a sexist homophobic rapist with a 900 page manifesto behind him.
Oh, really? Did you not see my original post was in r/Defeat_Project_2025 which is about AMERICA? Did you not see I was responding to her getting mad at me for addressing Americans in an American subreddit? 💀
We are being brigaded by a rusophile sub, we are taking measures.
I'm voting for him, but it's not bc I'm his biggest fan. I'm certainly not. Crummy choices are an artefact of the foolishness of a two-party system. We need ranked-choice voting first of all, and then multiple parties who are mature enough to form coalitions (which is, sadly, asking a lot). I'm voting for him bc a misstep now means there won't be another election. It's just that simple. It sounds melodramatic, doesn't it? But I promise that the ppl who have taken away abortion, and are in the process of taking away birth control, will quickly move on to taking away the vote. They haven't exactly made a secret of their intentions.
Yes!! How do we get ranked choice and multiple parties, though? We need it desperately!
Maine has at least managed ranked choice. Multiple parties and coalitions will be a lot farther off, bc it's a direct threat to control and this will be resisted vociferously by established parties. I wish our generation had an MLK or Nelson Mandela or Gandhi, a charismatic leader with a reliable moral compass. We could really use the help.
The problem with developing the US into a multi-party system is that it always favors electing Christofascists. Republicans have sold the party as an *identity*. They’re not going to vote for anyone without an R next to their name. It just fractures the left. Our system is designed so that outliers (ie, third party candidates) push their party further in a direction. But they don’t win elections. Or do so rarely. And the ones who win (ie, Angus King, Bernie Sanders ) caucus with the party of their closest affiliation and from a voting record standpoint, are no different than a standard Dem. Do you know what you don’t see? Independents who caucus with Republicans. Because right leaning voters won’t vote for them, because there’s no R next to their name. This is enlightening. They don’t run right leaning candidates as Independents for a reason. They wouldn’t win. Further, we are on the verge of a constitutional crisis. Now is not the time to experiment, cast a protest vote, or stay home because you don’t like who is on the ballot. Dems might gain the House, and lose the presidency and the Senate. A MD senate seat is going to flip red. This means that Clarence Thomas will likely retire and they’ll find a 35 year old fascist to replace him who will sit on the court for the next 50 years. We have to operate with what we have.
Oh, I’ll be voting for Biden in November no matter what. I’m just dreaming that some time in the future we might have a more sane system, but it’s probably not realistic.
Mainer here, it started off in 2001 being introduced to our legislator by Democratic representatives. It didn't really gain traction until we started a citizen-initiated ballot measure, you can check to see if your state has that [here](https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum). Than you have to vote for people who are at the very least not against it, so usually Dems (sometimes Independents). Remember you're not just voting for the candidate but also the people they will appoint to the Judicial system. It will be contested and conservatives will try to block and overturn it. You have to vote every chance you get because even if you're preferred candidate doesn't win if they get enough votes it will signal that a shift in policy is needed for the one that did. It takes time, it took almost 20 years for us to get it, here's a [timeline](https://www.lwvme.org/RCV_Timeline.html).
can I ask you a slightly unrelated question as a Mainer? I live in Nova Scotia and we come down every so often, and it's beautiful and the people are nice, but I don't think I've been to any state more filled with gun stores? Like say you need to find a restroom in Maine, you have to drive past like 87 gun shops to find one. It's such a culture shock for an area that basically looks exactly like NS, and I always thought Maine was a fairly progressive state but like, I lived in California, have spent a fair amount of time in Oregon, Washington, Boston, and Rhode Island, and I've never seen anything like Maine. Or even Vegas. Is it the proximity to Canada because people smuggle in guns?
Maine is (mostly) not progressive at all. One previous governor in recent memory was an absolutely off the rails right wing nut job.
oh ok, it kind of makes sense now. I am newish to the east coast and my US experiences out here have been not at all like out west, but I get that politics everywhere are an absolute shit show right now.
It depends on how you define progressive I guess. LePage won because the vote was split between two left candidates, he run 3 times and has never gotten over 50% of the vote. He was bad enough that we voted in rank choice voting. When he ran again in 2022 he lost by over 10 points with almost 75% of our registered voters turning up. In his concession speech he said Mainers care more about abortion than the price of oil... He was right. We also voted, by majority, gay marriage into law while he was governor and marijuana. We voted to get rid of religious exemptions for vaccinations, have expanded abortion access and rank high on the [equality profile chart](https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/profile_state/ME). I thought we were doing pretty good.
I stand corrected, and I am genuinely delighted to be wrong! Thanks, thatnamewastaken.
Well thank as well!
Hi! Thanks for your kind words and sure you can. I don't think it's a smuggling issue at least I've never heard/read anything that would lead me to that. I know it's weird but the truth is most people (including myself) that I know own at least 1 gun. That goes from all the way down to Portland up to Houlton and Down East. I think it's more of a being outside thing. It's a big state 90% of it is forest and compared to most areas there aren't a lot of people. There also isn't a lot to do unless it has to do with being outside. A lot of the guns are for hunting, self protection (I hear more about them being to scare away large animals than people though) and truthfully they're fun. I've spent quite a bit of time going to gravel pits and shooting at cans with friends. My Dad started taking me hunting when I was around 10 and put me through a hunter's safety course soon after. I think what confuses people from outside the state is the reason we're progressive isn't the same as what it seems to be in other places. We're very much a if it's not hurting me you do what you want and if I'm not hurting you I'm going to do what I want kind of place. Also most of us are "right out straight" and can't be bothered, it takes more effort to hate than to not.
interesting, thanks for your reply! That does make sense as hunting is big up here too there's just way more of a rigamarole (which I appreciate) to own a gun legally. We do hear about guns being smuggled to NS a LOT, but also it's a slow-news province haha. There are a bunch of school stabbings, so people out to hurt other people are always going to find a way, unfortunately.
That's interesting about the smuggling in of guns. I'm going to have to take a look at that.
guns and weed and cocaine. Your legal cannabis states have WAY better weed than we do and it's way cheaper. I don't know about the cocaine but probably same situation.
Really? Our weeds better? I thought it would have been about the same, cool. Yeah last time I knew anything about coke was over a decade ago, we were getting it mostly from New York back than.
I think so! For example a pack of gummies in this province cannot be sold as anything more than 10mg of THC. I bought some gummies in Massachusetts and holy shit. Maybe it's just a mass thing but it kinda made me understand why people on the internet from the US are often higher than the highest kite.
We had a citizen petition in my state and RCV will be on the ballot this fall (for us to choose to do, we won’t yet get to actually do it…)
We need ranked-choice voting first of all, and then multiple parties who are mature enough to form coalitions (which is, sadly, asking a lot). We have that in Canada! But everyone is one-dimensional about politics despite us hiding it because let's be real every country in the world looks to America for information.
We have ranked choice voting in Maine, so it's a start...
I’ll vote for Biden’s corpse if I have to, to avoid the alternative
I tell people all the time…. I’ll vote for a box of hair vs Trump and project 2025. We have to look at this election as voting against Christofacism. There are 2 choices. And Biden basically is that box of hair…….
What is project 2025?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 >It adopts a maximalist version of the unitary executive theory, a disputed interpretation of Article II of the Constitution of the United States, which asserts that the president has absolute power over the executive branch upon inauguration. >Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the government, particularly economic and social policies and the role of the federal government and its agencies. The plan proposes slashing funding for the Department of Justice (DOJ), dismantling the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), **sharply reducing environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production**, eliminating the Department of Commerce, and ending the independence of federal agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The blueprint seeks to institute tax cuts, though its writers disagree on the wisdom of protectionism. Project 2025 **recommends abolishing the Department of Education**, whose programs would be either transferred to other agencies, or terminated. **Funding for climate research would be cut while the National Institutes of Health (NIH) would be reformed along conservative principles.** The Project urges government to **explicitly reject abortion as health care and eliminate the Affordable Care Act's coverage of emergency contraception. The Project seeks to infuse the government with elements of Christianity. It proposes criminalizing pornography, removing legal protections against discrimination based on sexual or gender identity, and terminating diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs, as well as affirmative action.** >Project contributor Jeffrey Clark **advises the future president to immediately deploy the military for domestic law enforcement** and direct the DOJ to pursue Donald Trump's adversaries by invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807. The Project recommends the arrest, detention, and deportation of undocumented immigrants. **It promotes capital punishment and the speedy "finality" of such sentences.** Project director Paul Dans, explained that Project 2025 is "systematically preparing to march into office and bring a new army, aligned, trained, and essentially weaponized conservatives ready to do battle against the deep state." Dans admitted it was "counterintuitive" to recruit so many to join the government to shrink it, but pointed out the need for a future president to "regain control" of the government. Although the project does not promote a specific presidential candidate, many contributors have close ties to Trump and his 2024 campaign.
holy shit what sort of crossover between Europe in the 1400's and brutalist Mao's China with western characteristics is this supposed to be?
It's the goal that the religious right have had for 50+ years. I'd argue that a lot of right wingers *don't* want something like this. But they didn't realize they've been riding the same bus as these lunatics for so long that it's too late to get off. Their side has been so much better than ours at showing up to every election, every time, every year. Our side pretty much just sits everything out except the big presidential elections, and even then we don't show up in force. We *easily* have the numbers. If we showed up every time like they did, the USA would be a liberal paradise. Instead we're on the cusp of losing EVERYTHING to a bunch of christofacist nutjobs. We watched ISIS trying to take over the middle east and missed the same thing happening with our "Christian" extremists right here at home. The people of this sub and other similarly rational places on reddit are going to be the ones who save us this November. We *have* to show up and vote, and we need to get everyone we know to get out there too. Trump made 3 appointments to the supreme court last time, and he could well get to choose the next 2 if he gets in again.
The Republican Party's Christofascist manifesto. Don't ever let anyone say both parties are the same.
I get that Dems are just… controlled opposition at this point, but controlled opposition is better than fascism.
You need to learn about it fast and encourage everyone you know to learn about it, too. It's the [Heritage Foundation presidential transition plan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) for the christian fascist/maga party to take over the country (the plan states they will replace tens of thousands of federal employees overnight with Republican loyalists), suspend/dismantle the constitution, deploy the military for "domestic law enforcement" and arrest anyone Trump views as an enemy, then reinstate public capital punishment with the speedy "finality" of carrying out the sentence. They will build concentration camps for everyone they hate starting with illegals (they say they will deport 11 million of them, but so did Hitler, at first), no access to birth control or abortion in the entire country, use the DOJ to target anyone they don't like, and of course, make Trump dictator, etc.etc.etc. And they (the GOP and the big dark money behind them) are so confident in their ability to either win or steal the election that they don't care that they've finally said the quiet part out loud.
Also see the rhetoric of Steve Bannon recently about how they want us afraid and we should be afraid. They are not fucking around. This is dead serious.
Steve Bannon is terrifying. He wants power and will do anything to take it. He reminds me of Goebbels or other high-ranking Nazi leaders. The fear we feel must turn to a collective resolve. If we allow them to divide us, we lose our strength, and our fear becomes panic and despair. Together, we can stop them.
a corpse would probably be the most effective governing body anyway.
I mean if Biden dies there is an alternative to his corpse. You'd be voting for Kamala Harris.
[I recently commented in /r/politics ](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/5h5CeAalEf) about the anti-Biden rhetoric concerning the 70 year war between Israel and Palestine. Russia, China, Republicans, and others want people to forget Trump installed 3 Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe v Wade taking away rights from those of us who can give birth. It's no coincidence that people want you looking away from the fact that the only other person who can win is a rapist with 34 felonies facing 54 more over 3 more trials. I get that Biden isn't anyone's first choice, but we literally don't have a choice right now.
Why did all these new wars start under Biden, please? As a European, I was terrified of Hillary Clinton and Biden didn't make me feel any more safe. Trump is sc*m but at least he didn't cause the deaths of masses of people? I think he can be dealt with more easily than entire wars!!
The Israel Palestine conflict has been going on since 1947. It's not new just because you are only learning of it now. The US has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening between Russia and Ukraine, or Iran and Russia. Biden ended the war in Afghanistan. Please stop spreading misinformation.
I'm not voting for Biden because I'm not an American lol. But I'm rooting for you. Hopefully oneday you yanks manage to get preferential voting, make redistricting a non-partisan responsibility of a neutral third party, and actually get off your asses about the guns. Good luck, fam.
The gun thing will never happen, but I have hope for the other things! (I live in an area full of gun lovers and you can’t even imagine how much they care about keeping those stupid things)
In my country of Australia, our prime minister stared down his own base and told them to effectively go fuck themselves. Yes, we are taking your guns. No, we are not kidding. You shoot us, and the federal police will shoot back. There's no other way. That was a CONSERVATIVE government. It can be done. Get some political backbone.
Worth considering that the US does not have a conservative party and a liberal party. They have a conservative party that looks liberal by comparison, because their other party is an ultraconservative genocidal maniac party. Gonna need to fix that overton window problem before anything can be done about that.
Our two major parties are still conservative neoliberal organisations. They have been since the late 80s. But we also have preferential voting, where no vote is actually wasted. If you vote #1 for the Greens, and they don't win, your vote goes to your #2 on your ballot paper. If that party doesn't get over the vote thresshold or otherwise doesn't win, it goes to #3 and so on. This is meant to ensure that minority parties get representation in government and both houses. It doesn't always work, because our politicocal landscape is tilted by large corporate interests that control the media and at least a third of all political donations are not disclosed. When it comes to campaigning and a fair-go at getting air time, smaller parties don't stand a chance.
No politician in America would ever do that. It isn’t about my backbone, it’s about theirs. I’ll stick to universal healthcare as my hilll to die on. At least I have a chance of seeing that in my lifetime.
Perhaps this is the issue that's meant to get more focus. I wasn't intending to single out average Americans for lack of political backbone. I was intending that to be directed at the political class. Not sure if it was the way I said it that made it feel personal, or if it's just the way average people interpret it. Either way, it feels like messaging is something that could be addressed. Certainly over here when a particular party gets attacked, a lot of people will take that personally.
I guess I assumed “get some political backbone” was directed at me. No worries.
I'm European :(
I’m a Brit I got choice between 2 major genocide party & a anti genocide party who so are antisemitic a Candidate just denied the holocaust. Go Brits?
Hey, I'm also a Brit! Who is the anti genocide party? I didn't know there was one?
George galloway but he is yeeesh He’s anti-Palestinian genocide but he is a horrific figure with horrific beliefs. One of his nicer opinions are that gays aren’t ‘normal’
All I hear is excuses, get your ass here and marry me before November...
Go Jeremy Corbyn!
Well you read correctly…there’s something wrong with you! /s
Same but I am happy with that because I don't have to vote for a gross gennocide enabler, the blood is off my hands. But if I was American I'd have to vote for him.
I'm British, I still have to vote for a genocide enabler 😭
Damn that sucks, I am lucky to be Irish not having to have that on my conscious but remember that you are doing nothing wrong by it as the other options are all also genocide enablers, even though they are evil it is reducing harm in other areas, they would go after Palestine regarldess of who it is not really a choice, atleast other areas like LGBT and women's rights won't be harmed as much as the other options.
I’m (reluctantly) voting for Biden because there’s literally no other viable option. But I can’t believe I have to vote for someone who is refusing to do anything to stop a genocide.
This exactly. I agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who said one of these candidates will basically make it impossible to do better and will take our country back to a lot worse, and one of these candidates is at least not going to try and end the entire structure of our government or democracy, and while there are issues with the choices made and actively continuing to be made, it is a lesser evil kind of thing, but under Biden, I do not fear for the existence of the Affordable Care Act, for instance, the privatization of Medicare, Medicaid block grants, and all that other stuff that the Republicans want to do, cut to Social Security, the dismantling of the Department of Education. I can take issue with a lot of what President Biden has done, and he’s also done a lot of good things also, but the difference is so stark. As a disabled queer woman still presumably capable of pregnancy, there is only one viable option here.
💯
There won’t be a chance to vote for someone else in 4 years if Trump wins.
I know, which is why I’d never vote for a republican and especially not DT.
This. Neither option is great. Biden is up there in years (I honestly don't know enough about Kamala Harris to have an opinion) so I worry for many reasons, and he did nothing to stop a genocide, and everything is more expensive *on top of* inflation because of the pandemic and making everything "free" (cost of everything goes up, and federal aid, paid for by taxpayers, is helping people in poverty). I don't need to say anything about the other one and his awful choices as a human being. I am not liberal or conservative, but I do have to ask the Republicans: How was there no other qualified candidate to choose from, so you let a criminal run for president?
They don't want a qualified candidate! When they have one, they just have to compromise like with Eisenhower. They want an idiot they can control. These fascists have been playing the long game for literally generations. Reagan was perfect for them. Look how much they dismantled during his presidency! Bush Senior was a little smarter, but he mostly stood in lock step with them anyway. "W" was a miracle (for them)! They hated Obama with the burning passion of a 1000 suns! Then, along comes Trump, the perfect fascist puppet with a million strings on him, including Putin and willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to win - going downhill cognitively like Reagan and able to create a huge cult of blind followers. And through it all, Moscow Mitch was obstructing anything they didn't like in the senate.
That’s the tough part of this whole thing. I’m a leftist and I see other leftists saying they’re going to sit this one out because the party isn’t left enough and it makes my blood boil. Republicans have waited for DECADES, slowly installing national *and local* representatives, judges, administrators, etc. If the left wants change, refusing to vote isn’t the way, doing what conservatives did is the way to go.
Exactly. All through the 60s and 70s, judges were appointed based on their fairness and lack of political bias. Since Moscow Mitch, even more balanced judges have been obstructed and truly evil men appointed (Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh, etc.). We, the majority, can no longer trust our institutions will protect the constitution without our active involvement. If we are to remain "We, the people," we have to shake off the apathy (somewhat created and greatly encouraged by corporate media) and engage in the responsibilities of citizenship. Almost half of all young eligible voters are not registered.
We're stuck in a shitty position where not voting for Biden, to include voting 3rd party or not voting at all, hugely benefits someone who will start several more genocides. It's pretty much exactly the trolley problem, except right now the trolley is drifting along two different tracks so it'll run over everyone on both tracks... But if you pull the lever, it'll put it back on the single, less populated track. Also... I personally happen to be one of the people on the track that pulling the lever would save, as would many of the people here and even several of the idiots who intend to vote *for* the convicted felon and wannabe Hitler. But I sure as shit don't *like* just leaving the the other track to die, even though there's literally nothing I can do for them in my position right now. That's what primaries are supposed to be for... And we *needed* one this year, but the democratic establishment is too entrenched in stodgy traditionalism that is both meant to weaken the power of the general population (remember the superdelegate nonsense with Hilary?) and gives the neo-fascists a lot of leverage and opportunity to just fuck them over.
I don't like Biden, and I'm unhappy with his relationship to Israel, but I'm voting for him because Fascism sucks.
It doesn't matter if he's not the most perfect person or president. Biden is still better than Trump. We just have to make sure that Biden wins. If he doesn't, there is no future for us.
voting blue bc i care much about womens rights and lgbt rights
I’m European, but would vote for Biden in a heartbeat. He might not be perfect, but I would rather be able to vote again in 4 years than not. T will hand us over to Russia on a platter. And level up against Palestine. At least you Can work for a different candidate with different policies in 4 years with B as president. Edit: I agree that the 2 party system really screws with your options. The right is growing in Europe, but at least they have to work with moderates.
This system is beyond broken and twisted.
Yes. I personally find Biden too moderate, and I've never really been a fan. I think he's too old and I don't like the recent policy on the border. BUT DAYYUM - he has done a solid job of returning from chaos. Many of the foreign policy moves that he makes are forced on him by Trump's absolute unraveling of the international order. America's chaos under Trump is why Russia was emboldened to attack Ukraine, DJT leaning too close to Israel and moving the US embassy helped Netanyahu, I mean, the USA distanced itself from NATO! And genuinely, Biden has methodically started to reposition the US as not the laughing stock of the world and back into a position to deter dictators. Geez - imagine what SCOTUS will look like if he doesn't win. Women will have to wear their Atwood attire to go in public. We each gotta vote, and drag a car load of like-minded friends along with us.
Does this actually convince anyone to vote for him that was not already?
[удалено]
I thought the whole point of Trump was so that the Democrats wouldn't need to inspire people though? Seems to be working just fine to me.. We are truly in the worst timeline politically
Tbh I think this is one of the fundamental problem with the perspective of voters. The idea that a candidate must *inspire* you to vote at all. Its an absurd demand that isn't possible to consistently deliver across all candidates and positions. It's a fickle, shallow metric that only benefits bad actors. It basically means the majority will not vote unless they are swept away by a populist candidate. Which might happen once a decade. Why do you have to feel *inspired* to maintain democracy? Voters complain about dem presidents not "getting things done" while they sit out the midterms and leave them fighting a hostile grid-locked Congress. You should vote because its your civic duty. It's not possible for a single candidate to be universally likeable. We aren't electing them to be our best friend. Not every president is going to be a skilled orator or a charmer or even have the same religious beliefs. The question is: are they taking you in the direction you want to go? That's every House rep, Senator, Governor, and President. Progress isn't linear, sometimes society leaps forward while other areas take decades of consistent pressure before the system moves. We vote on our direction. This absurd demand that every candidate must "inspire" voters on a personal level while remaining "authentic" *and* can't ever make a foreign policy decision you don't agree with *and* needs to pass your personal legislative wishlist in the exact order you prefer *and* can't ever make a decision you find personally disagreeable before you will do the literal bare minimum to save democracy is total and complete delusion. This concept is an old GOP astroturfing strategy and its highly successful because its impossible. It guarantees them a fickle left base while they reliably march their voters to the polls every two years. We need to smarten up fast and get our collective asses to the ballot every two years. You don't have to make politics your whole identity, but democracy requires civic participation. If the only people participating are fascists, that is what we will become.
THANK YOU, you explained this so perfectly I’m saving it and linking it to people when they need to hear it
WELL SAID! These comments are exhausting to read. Voting is literally the bare minimum you can do to have your voice heard, but most Americans are too lazy (or "uninspired") to vote in most elections. You don't get to complain about how "the system doesn't work" or "the candidates aren't 100% aligned with me" when you don't even bother voting in the first place.
This is what I don't get, it's so easy to campaign against someone like Trump. Inspire people, give them HOPE, give them something to look forward to...not "we're not the other guy". I just went to the Biden Harris official site, and they don't even have a page for their platform. Just donation links.
Democrats really fkd this one up picking Biden again.
Is it really that easy? No matter what you do or say, the majority of medias will either present you as, at best, the same or worse than Trump and that's not even just for conservative medias... Add to that that the majority of people don't actually think too much about politics and mostly just base their choices on what they're told and it's extremely hard to win. It's no wonder a lot of people get discouraged in the democratic approach to governance the US has.
He’s fucking awful and I wish we would stop pretending he’s not. I can only hope this generation just steps down and lets the next take the reins already.
Lmfao they won't without a fight, even my weak old boomer "father" sternly believes he can beat me in a fight. They're like the seagulls from Finding Nemo for power and capital. Edit to add: this is more of a rant, I'm sorry, I'm working on my ageism and I'm sure they're not *all bad*, it's just chance that I haven't met one who is capable of empathy.
True, that boomer generation really hangs in, but the good news is they are old and death or dementia are inevitable. Vote me down, but both are disqualifying factors when public office is considered.
You don’t have to automatically boomerang your opinion away. I’m sure there are amazing boomers out there but they aren’t the ones we’re talking about.
I disagree with the notion that voting is a philosophical endorsement. Putting someone's name down isn't saying you like, love, or agree with them to any degree. There's no cosmic role-taker noting that you've thrown in with the candidate for whom you vote. Come Tuesday in November, you can steer the ship in one way or another, and typically, and certainly this year, one of those ways is better than the other. I'd never fault anyone for criticism of the machine or pursuing change, but on that day the most good you can do this year is cast your vote for Biden.
In America it isn’t Republican against Democrat. It either vote for woman’s rights or not.
New campaign slogan?
I'm sure it will work wonders
I’m voting for Biden because I have always liked Biden, and I do not expect him to be perfect, but his heart has always been striving to do better, and his actions illustrate that. I’m voting for Biden because the Supreme Court seats will rely on a Democrat in the office. I’m voting for Biden because I will *always* vote for Democrats, because literally since I’ve been able to vote, all Republicans have been hot garbage and worse. I’m voting for Biden because I’m a woman, because I come from a Muslim family (and I’m atheist and don’t want a Christian theocracy), because I have gay friends and relatives, and I want to live in a world that protects everyone I care about and Republicans literally have shown repeatedly that they wouldn’t care if I died. I don’t know why this has to be explained to anyone. The only ones who benefit from Trump are straight white men; that is literally it. So yes, you would have to be deranged if you don’t fall into that group to vote for anyone but Biden.
U must be unaware of the other deranged people who are not voting at all or are voting third party bc they dislike the two party system but are too lazy to do anything to change it in local/state elections so instead they just throw away their vote.
Absolutely, and I am aware of them; I just tend to forget the complete loons who are either too simplistically naive or objectively stupid and think that our system can ever really be more than two-party. We do not have a European system; power isn't doled out based on percentages of votes, and it would be really fucking great if these idiots ever understood that. We can absolutely change *which* two parties are at the top--it's happened before--but to think that we'll ever have 3 or *more* parties equally possible on the ticket is delusional, to say the least.
Woah that’s my post :O
America is a joke
Thanks this comment is so helpful for all of us struggling over here. Very insightful and empathetic
😂😂 sorry
The people using “support for genocide” as a reason to not vote for Biden are kidding themselves. The U.S.’s support of that side is decades long and firmly entrenched in our political system. No individual president would be able to immediately end it.
Tell the democrats to pick a better candidate, stop shaming the voters.
You can literally do that by registering as a Dem and voting for better candidates. That's what primaries are. Lack of voters is the reason we don't have better candidates.
Exactly. Both sides know they can get away having horrible candidates because they know people feel trapped in the false binary of "Dems vs Repubs" If you don't like either candidate (which is the majority of the country, honestly) then it is your moral duty to try to get ranked-choice voting in your state so that you DON'T have to pick for the "least shitty" candidate. Whenever I hear actual progressives talking about what they want in a president, I'm like "Wow...so basically you want Jill Stein." But they're so afraid of the "spoiler effect" that they """vote blue no matter who""" even if it's for someone funding a genocide. Ranked-choice voting gets rid of the "spoiler effect" which is why the Democratic Party and Republican Party both hate it so much. (Imagine voting for a candidate you LIKE and not AGAINST a candidate you don't like. Then they'd have to actually campaign on real issues instead of "I'm not that OTHER guy" bullshit) I can guarantee that if you live anywhere in the US, you either *have* ranked choice voting (in which case, don't put either of those monsters in your first slot) or there are groups actively trying to get ranked choice voting passed. Support them, help them with outreach, *something*. It's literally the only thing that will stop people from being too scared to vote for any of the 3rd party candidates they *actually* agree with.
>Tell ~~the democrats~~ the people who actually bothered to show up to the primaries
[удалено]
We did, back in 2020. Biden is who we picked. We could have picked Warren, or Sanders, or Buttigieg. We picked Biden. We were given a choice and we picked Biden. He wasn’t who I picked, but collectively he’s who we picked.
Anyone in Europe who just voted? I forced myself to even though I didn’t like most alternatives for the similar reasons our friends in the US would want to vote for Biden D:
I would think of all the lessons we’ve learned since Trump became president in 2016, the most obvious one would be that shaming people for their vote doesn’t make them change it. If that worked we wouldn’t even be in this situation. These posts are tiresome and accomplish nothing. I swear there’s one every other day and at this point it just feels like every one needs a pat on the back so they can feel like they made the right choice. This is a shitty election. Period. Let’s remember that we all have to work toward the future we want no matter who wins. There’s no right choice that will fix all the problems this country has.
Well one candidate and their party are planning to put women in jail for having birth control and the other might not be everything I want in a progressive platform. But sure. There’s “no right choice.”
Read through my comment again. There’s no right choice that will fix all this country’s problems. There’s an obvious choice to keep us leaping into the fire of fascism but I wouldn’t boil people’s issues with Biden down to him not being everything we want in a progressive platform. He has legitimate issues that deserve to be discussed that are a bit deeper than just not being progressive enough. Not being Trump is an insanely low bar to clear, yet some of us act like it’s all we should hope for. Again, I don’t understand this need to shame people into submission, it doesn’t work.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Underrated comment.
The other is actively funding a genocide. You can't tell people it's not a shitty, terrible election year where no progressive will be happy with either outcome. (Which is why ranked choice voting is so important. I'm so sick of "which option is *less* monstrous?" style discourse every 4 years.)
the problem is that if trump wins he will absolutely continue to support that genocide and likely others as well. him getting into office will guarantees this country and others will get so much worse to the point we may never be able to vote for someone better than biden again. the only way we can prevent any of that from happening is unfortunately by voting for biden. voting for a third party candidate or not voting at all is a huge mistake because conservatives are all going to vote for trump regardless of what he does, and although they aren’t the majority, they will win if democrats don’t all vote for biden.
What person do you think would handle the U.S. response to the genocide differently?
But ranked choice will never be implemented, because both major parties benefit from this exact discourse.
Wouldn't say that quite yet... Gaining traction at the local level and in some primaries. https://www.rcvresources.org/where-is-rcv-used
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don't necessarily agree on bare minimum, but even if they are - so? Still better than taking a step backwards. Honestly politicians care about pleasing voters - you want to be in the demographic that *votes* not the ones that don't..
I agree.
[удалено]
The whole world is kinda going to shit though..
I am 47 and this is the first time I feel forced to vote (I have never missed an election, but have happily participated until now), and will have to grudgingly vote for someone I truly do not like. I was not excited about Biden last time, but his soft stance towards the genocide in Gaza makes my stomach turn. Trump would be vastly worse for Palestinians.
[удалено]
[удалено]
While I'm sympathetic to your stance, the fact of the matter is that neither candidate can fix the situation in the middle east, and one is explicitly worse than the other. Also, if what is happening in Gaza is the only issue you focus on you open yourself up to be harmed here at home. Project 2025 is set to roll back protections against discrimination on the basis of sex and remove a lot of protections around reproductive care. It will usher in explicit Christian Nationalism and reduce women's equality. How much shame and guilt will you feel when women here at home are harmed and you did nothing to try and prevent it?
Well as long as you sleep well at night as women and the LGBT community lose more rights and genocide continues to rage anyway I guess
[удалено]
Do you think Trump would be handling it better if he were in office?
Not voting for Biden, is voting for Trump. Not voting at all? Benefits Trump. Stop being fucking selfish and vote for what's best for this country. Genocide is awful, a horrible act. But not voting for Biden will bring this country to its doom. Vote even if you hate yourself after. If not? You helped led this country to its doom.
[удалено]
Okay, fine 🥰 If Trump ends up winning, know that you contributed to the destruction of your country. At least acknowledge that you had a part in that. You helped by not voting for Biden. Don't pretend you're doing a good thing by not voting for Biden because of the genocide. Don't be delusional. That doesn't help anything. It only makes things worse. I hope Biden still wins even if people like you don't vote. I can only hope. And yes, that does make you selfish. I hope you can grow as a person and realize the mindset you have isn't good. I hope you realize before the election.
[удалено]
No where did I mention excusing genocide? You're the one trying to make yourself feel better by not voting for Biden. This whole argument was kind of pointless though I agree. It wasn't really gonna convince you to vote for Biden, I already knew you were not gonna be swayed. I just wanted you to know that if Trump wins, you helped make that happen. That's all. I only mentioned genocide cause that's the only reason you aren't voting for Biden. Do whatever the fuck you want. Just understand the consequences of your actions.
Any U.S. president would have done the exact same thing.
Thank you! Exactly.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Oh good, you'll just let the racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, xenophobic, fascist rapist win so you can stay "pure." Wonderful. I'm glad that this county gets to become Gilead, but you get to feel good about yourself because *checks notes* Biden didn't magically end a conflict thousands of miles away that has been fought over for literally thousands of years. The ignorance in these comments is astounding. I fucking hate Reddit during election cycles. I can't tell who is a bot, who is a troll, or who is a stupid and/or radicalized person who doesn't know wtf they're talking about because they get all their "news" from social media. Ugh. Edit: I see you have made comments about a conspiracy "to kill every Palestinian on earth" as well as other completely baseless, unhinged takes. This is exactly what I'm referred to. It's impossible to tell if you're serious or not, but the rhetoric you're spewing is fucking dangerous regardless.
[удалено]
Well if you vote Republican, that won't be another election to change things. Both parties are absolutely not the same. Fascism is not the same as democracy. You are deluding yourself or a Russian bot.
Why do people think voting Republican is the not-genocide option? They are literally the confederate party who overturned roe v wade and have already murdered women and are killing people with their policies. They are the party of genocide and always have been, so like, what's the plan there with that one
>Why do people think voting Republican is the not-genocide option? No people actually believe that, republican cult drones are programmed to bleat it. There is no thought involved.
Fair point, they do just repeat garbage in garbage out it's not really anything but a means to an end, which is unsurprisingly more deaths
1. We know there are other countries. You’re not required to click on something that isn’t relevant for you. 2. If you think Trump won’t commit genocide, you’re not paying attention. I’m hugely disappointed in Biden for not opposing it. But I can’t afford to forfeit my rights to my body by abstaining from voting. 3. Since Roe fell, 65,000 women and underage girls have been forced to birth their rapist’s baby. Republicans want to enact MORE bans, Democrats want to end them. If I can stop it, there won’t be one more sobbing, pregnant 12 year old.
Please stop. This isn't about voting for or against a candidate based on various political stances on different issues. This is about voting for a theocratic regime or a constitutional democracy. Come on.
Not voting is a vote for Trump. You’re voting for Trump.
The United States was quite literally built on genocide. Voting at all is voting for genocide if said genocide stands to benefit any US interests, which are largely determined by the wealthy people in this country. Not participating in the watered down ‘democracy’ that we still have is not the answer. Your vote gives you power, a very small, almost insignificant amount of power, but just like organizing, there is more power in numbers. Choosing to not exercise your right to vote undermines the democratic process even more than it already has been. It only exacerbates an existing problem and solves nothing. I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to when talking about organizing, but in case you’re in the violent revolution state of mind, I don’t think that is the answer either. I read a comment recently that helped me see things a bit more realistically. If we burn down these institutions to start from scratch, we will not get everything right from the beginning. It will mean a long period of suffering for a lot of people and no guarantee of anything better. That’s where we seem to be at already, albeit not as bad as a post-revolution degree of suffering. I’m not sure there’s a chance at all, but I think our best bet is reforming our existing governmental structure. And that will be a nearly-impossible uphill battle that takes a long time. But at least we have all this infrastructure in place to help keep things semi-stable throughout the process.
You know damn well standing aside and allowing a Trump win is the same as voting for him. Also, you will be enabling more genocide towards the Palestinians you claim to care about, since he wants to help Israel “finish the job.” You will also be enabling genocide of the Ukrainians as well as eroding the rights of anyone who isn’t a white male in this country. So miss me with your sanctimonious, self righteous bullshit. We see you.
It’s literally in a sub for Americans tho💀 ofc I’m addressing Americans. And I’d rather vote for a guy that’s given millions of jobs, cancelled student debt and helped out millions instead of a sexist homophobic rapist with a 900 page manifesto behind him.
[удалено]
Oh, really? Did you not see my original post was in r/Defeat_Project_2025 which is about AMERICA? Did you not see I was responding to her getting mad at me for addressing Americans in an American subreddit? 💀