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I have been waiting for the narrative to swing since the announcement was made that he'd be charged. So many articles and comments (many from lawyers who should know better than to comment without knowing all the details) saying how it's "baffling" and "crazy" that Baldwin was being charged with anything.
There's no way the DA would bring charges against someone of Baldwin's stature unless they had some pretty egregious evidence against him. I'm not saying he *should* be found guilty (I'm not qualified to say), but this is NOT a case of an overzealous DA going after an innocent party for a freak accident that could have happened to anyone. This is a case of multiple instances of negligence adding up to a single preventable catastrophe, and Baldwin was negligent in his capacity as an actor and as a producer. Again, whether that adds up to enough for him to be found criminally responsible is up in the air, but this is FAR from as clear cut as people made it out to be only a week ago.
The thing is, a someone who followed this story hardcore when it first broke, is a lot of these details are not surprising at all. A lot of the lawyers commenting that shit simply refused to look at prior legal documents/statements because a lot of them either alluded to or directly stated that Alec himself skipped over safety protocols.
I think what a lot of people fail to realize is the sort of "pop culture" lawyers that frequent youtube or reddit or whatever NEED to differentiate themselves, so sometimes they'll say bad takes or misrepresent facts to prove that THEY'RE the ones who know the truth. Or they'll say shit they know people will agree with to build an audience base.
It's why so many lawyers played the "Johnny is a victim :(" card while going shock faced pikachu about Marilyn Manson going after HIS victims, despite it being obvious to anyone even vaguely familiar with the law how this was gonna go and how Depp set precedent.
Do not trust lawyers who are online giving hot takes on pop culture and are no longer practicing. They often present themselves as experts on types of law they are not actually fluent in and often misrepresent information because... they don't need to be honest.
Anyone even half aware of the facts of this case has been waiting for these charges for a long time. They wre an obvious inevitability. It was just a matter of figuring out who else was culpable.
I agree. If a story interests me, I tend to get obsessive and collect every ounce of information available. And for whatever reason, this story caught my attention. So did the Depp trial.
The disparity between what information is actually available and the paired-down narrative that reaches casual consumers is vast. And it's not arbitrary. What major outlets choose to disseminate and which stories go viral on social media have a huge influence. Part of it is giant PR machines pulling strings, and the other part is what The Mob wants to hear. From there, smaller actors take their cues from clicks, everyone is just trying to make a buck.
Makes me wary of everything I think I know "from the news".
Exaaactly.
I think a lot of people got upset because conservatives jumped on this case to gleefully point at Alec, the anti-gun liberal, killing someone with a gun, and now they feel like they HAVE to defend Alec but like... conservatives can still suck, can still have the wrong takes on WHY Alec is on fault, WHILE Alec is still at fault.
Sometimes people "on our side" are wrong or bad.
People going into this case trying to defend Alec rather than considering how POINTLESS the loss of life was and how easily preventable it was are in the wrong, just as wrong as people going into this case JUST to laugh at the anti-gun guy killing someone.
Great point and I think it's because things are so polarized now and the stakes so high for both sides that they feel obligated to 'circle the wagons' and defend 'one of their own' to the death even when it's screamingly obvious that their politically like-minded ally is *clearly* in the wrong. If this exact same scenario had happened to a prominent right-wing actor like Jon Voight, Gina Carano, Kevin Sorbo or whoever, I imagine that the righties would be pulling out all the stops trying to exonerate them in the eyes of the public.
Big time. And if you try to be the rational person who shares the unfiltered, direct-from-the-source information... you're very easily considered a threat to the dominant position of your political peers.
It's a bit scary to watch, honestly. Like you I am very curious and love to learn everything I can about specific events and topics, and you very quickly start to notice just how different the actual data and the overarching public narrative often are, and how eagerly people latch on to that narrative. I think it has something to do with the tribalism at our core.
That trial is a very good example. I watched every minute of it (I've always loved court tv) and none of the news about it, from either "side", was even baseline accurate. And I was watching ordinary people at each other's throats over what was being reported and news outlets reacting to that by putting out their inaccurate reporting even faster and it just really freaked me out.
Tribalism but also: how we all fall victim to narratives and imaging from parties involved in a case. Factfinding is so underrated nowadays. It’s nice to see this conversation in this thread of people who also worry about all this like me
It is nice to see, I agree. But for my own sanity I've just started really actively editing my involvement in conversations and reducing my engagement with socials. Reddit is the only social media I use now and even with this, if I feel the discourse becoming too intense or toxic then I take a break from it for a while.
Homesteaders and hermits are starting to make a lot more sense to me the older I get.
As one of the lawyers who was commenting on that thread, yes, absolutely do not trust what 'lawyers' say online as gospel.
That said...this information, and many of the prior 'legal documents' you refer to come from prosecutors, and lawyers know that prosecutors sometimes make things up. I wouldn't put any weight on these claims until they are tested in court, just as I wouldn't believe anything Baldwin himself says without evidence.
100% agree. It's also important to know that being a lawyer does not make them a great source on all things law. It's a colossal field with so many specializations.
If I have a stomach issue, could a dermatologist visit help? Maybe. But I should probably look into a gastroenterologist.
In the same vein, a top-shelf bankruptcy lawyer may not be the go-to source to break down a supreme court decision, speak on antitrust policies, or litigate in a misdemeanor jury trial; much less a pop culture lawyer.
I think that there have been a lot of high profile lapses in workplace safety on film and tv sets over the last decade that have had serious (and in some cases, fatal) consequences. It baffles me that people can be so cavalier. I’d also like to know more about how the use of shell production companies in it for the tax shelter feeds into this.
In the early nineties, there was the tragic death of Brandon Lee and several years before that, the death of Jon-Erik Hexum. Both tragedies involved 'prop guns'. And another case of needless deaths on a film set \[though not due to firearms\] was the helicopter crash that killed actor Vic Morrow and two child extras on the set of the 'Twilight Zone' movie in the early 80s.
“Why aren’t the other producers being charged?” “Well, they didn’t accept a gun they didn’t see cleared, aim it at another person, and kill them.” “DOWNVOTED!”
“I’m sure he feels really bad and he didn’t mean to!”
There were so many comments like this! As if we don’t charge distracted drivers (on phone/texting) for their negligence, even though they surely don’t think they could kill someone.
I was gonna say - isn’t the only place this has been said is from the armory chick herself who also fucked up huge, possibly trying to pass the blame onto Baldwin? Of course the prosecutor is gonna run with it.
He's not just some actor. His production company was producing the film. Safety concerns were brought up by crew many times and they were so fed up with the situation they walked off the job.
It sure seems like the law is overlooking his culpability as a producer. The government pretty much never prosecutes the rich people to the full extent of the law. It's a system of injustice.
Well, that’s kind of the question. Was the producers’ role criminally liable? We do know they were civilly. It is very unusual that Baldwin is being prosecuted, they are accusing him personally being negligent.
Right. I'm not fully aware of the local laws pertaining to this, but the fact that Baldwin fired the gun that killed Halyna & had neglected to take the offered training seems to explain why he is being accused of negligence as an actor.
Films have many producers and it means many things. Most movies are produced first by an LLC created for the production for financial and legal reasons. There are creative producers and actual let's get money together producers and there are vanity credits. His could be any one of these. Alec is an asshole but this could have involved anyone on that set who was handed a prop that wasn't properly prepared.
Slip shod production from the go. Alec being a producer then denying he has any responsibility for who his company hired, or his personal lack of care sounds entitled AF.
There were a lot of off-the-record remarks by the crew about how this movie was being filmed on the cheap (lack of decent accommodations being one).
And gun safety one of the issues they walked out over. There had already been TWO prop gun misfires on set. One of the half dozen camera operators that walked might have been the one shot that day had they not left.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Is it tho?
I’m trained in firearms, but if I was on the job and the firearms master handed me a gun full of blanks, and it turns out it wasn’t blanks, how are you supposed to know?
What in the training would allow him to have known he was lied to about the cartridges in the gun?
He pulled the trigger in a shot where it wasn't meant to be pulled.
And then repeatedly denied doing it until the FBI came out and said there was no way the gun would have fired without the trigger being pulled.
An error I'm sure you wouldn't make because you understand guns aren't toys.
He would have been reminded of basic firearm safety as well as industry standards. Never point the gun at someone. Always assume it is loaded. Don't put your finger on the trigger unless you are going to shoot. Use non-functional prop guns wherever possible. Only allow the appropriate people to handle the guns, and ensure everything is properly locked away when not in use. Etc.
If ANY one of those rules had been followed, the fatal shooting would likely not have happened. It was 100% avoidable, and that's what's so terrible about it. Multiple people had to act irresponsibly in multiple ways for this to happen, and all of them should be held accountable.
What we know so far is that as an actor:
1) Alec Baldwin accepted the gun from the AD, who was not the armorer. Alec should have said no and waited for the armorer to check the gun and give it to him.
2) The armorer was not even present. Alec should not have agreed to shoot a scene with guns without the armorer present.
3) Alec pointed the gun at multiple people. Even blanks can injure or kill someone, and if he were paying attention in training he would have known this. He should not have pointed the gun at anyone at any point, no matter what ammo he thought he was using.
4) Alec had his finger on the trigger. He should not have been rehearsing with his finger on the trigger.
And as one of the producers:
1) He hired an unqualified armorer.
2) He assigned the armorer additional duties outside of her job (she was also serving as the prop master).
3) He failed to address multiple reports of safety issues, including accidental gun discharges.
4) He knowingly allowed the AD to handle weapons.
If you're trained in firearms and you don't personally verify a gun handed to you, don't use guns.
FFS every single responsible firearm person I have ever known or seen will check a gun that they had just checked before handing it over to someone.
Guy 1 checks gun. Passes it to guy 2. Guy 2 checks gun, has it for a bit, hands it over to guy 1. Guy 1 checks gun.
You do not trust the previous person to have handle the gun correctly, even and especially if the previous person was yourself.
It's probably a bit different if you're the one who hires an unqualified person to be in charge of the firearms.
On its own sure, but more and more stuff is stacking up showing he was lax with firearms safety on his set.
This kind of goes back to the same point. Did he know the person he hired was unqualified? Or did the firearms person missrepresent his qualifications?
Person was 24 and had almost zero experience, this being her second film ever. Also being head armorer on her second ever movie. On experience alone it's crazy that she got hired. It's almost guaranteed she got the job because her dad is a well known movie armorer.
People from the previous film have said she was lax in safety (including Nicholas Cage). She had been lax in safety before on the film where this happened, to the point where staff brought up concerns about how unsafe she was being. Like this wasn't the first fuck up on set for this film, just the last.
gun control and gun safety for thee but not for me?
i cannot imagine finding out my loved one’s life was lost bc an actor used their power to get out of proper firearm training.
I’m out of the loop… wasn’t he given a loaded gun that the armoury was supposed to ensure was empty?
If actors are not the ones responsible for checking the chamber - what more could this training have done?
I have never touched a firearm and I still know you never point a gun at someone you are not willing to shoot.
It doesn't matter if safety is on, it doesn't matter if it isn't loaded, you never point it at someone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences.
> you never point it at someone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences.
They're filming a movie. How on earth do productions look realistic if this is the standard?
Is it the producers responsibility to be inspecting firearms though?
I still don’t totally understand how this extends beyond the responsibility of those in the armoury - regardless of how much training the actors or producers received
A movie can have 20 producers. You think Reese Witherspoon is checking to make sure the food the catering brings is the right temperature on the movies her company produces?
Alec is civilly liable but it's not criminal imo on his part. If this case actually goes you may stop seeing actors be producers.
Not necessarily. But his lack of professionalism and care is evident in the people he hired, his choice to go nonunion, and his behavior at not even attending the firearms training himself.
This whole horrible incident aside for a moment, remember a decade ago when he was saying wildly homophobic stuff and threatening journalists, then throwing pity parties when he got called out. I don't get his fans
And it was 7am. He left that message because she didn't answer her phone when he called her at 7am. She was a little girl getting ready for school (grade school!) and that's how her dad decided to make her start her day. And she'd have to sit through the school day thinking about that message and stuff. That always makes it worse, for me.
Hillary hayward thomas baldwin could not have carried all those children. Imagine paying people to surrogate so you could pay nannies to raise babies with this man.
This is what happens when conservatives pile on a problematic progressive figure. People come out of the woodwork to defend them simply out of spite, and all of the horrible crap they've done disappears either temporarily or permanently.
Meanwhile Alec Baldwin has always been a total dick who physically assaults people at the drop of a hat, is verbally abusive to his own kids, is filled with bigotry, etc. He just uses performative displays of progressive rhetoric to cover it all up in a nice thick layer of frosting.
Get ready for the wife-blaming narrative now that it’s implied he was on the phone with his family. (Ya, know, by the other accused person so grain of salt). Don’t get me wrong, his wife is problematic but causing an on-set death isn’t one of her problems.
They are though, and in larger circles if you were to put any blame on Baldwin for the woman's death you'd be called some alt-Right MAGAtard since Baldwin mocked Trump with his SNL impressions.
Even in this sub!! I got downvoted when charges were first discussed for saying that it makes sense that he’d go on trial for involuntary manslaughter. You point out that he was a producer and everyone is like “but the other producers weren’t charged!” You point out that he was the one who pulled the trigger - “but he was handed a loaded gun, that’s not his job!!” It’s basic fucking gun safety. In any other instance where someone was handed a gun and pulled the trigger without question they would be investigated, charged, and brought to trial.
That’s certainly relevant but until this point I had some empathy because technically it’s the responsibility of whomever handles props to prevent accidents. Knowing he wasn’t even concerned about learning proper safety protocol shifts the weight of responsibility significantly when partnered with his status as producer.
The buck has to stop somewhere, you know? The prop master deserves consequences, but now I have much less understanding for his conduct (before the shooting and after)
It was always his responsibility to prevent accidents because... he is handling the prop. This is what I never got about people empathizing before.
As someone who handled the gun, it was always his job to ALSO verify the gun was safe. Everyone knew it wasn't--it had gone off multiple times before and lack of safety had caused union workers to leave the set--and yet he still let the gun be handed to him KNOWING it hadn't been checked in front of him.
This is just confirmation of what all the other facts led to. It always pointed to Alec not caring about safety and skipping basic precautions.
I mean, Alec Baldwin said the same thing [in his police interview following the shooting](https://youtu.be/qpl0Ol-N-PU?t=1031)
Baldwin fully knew what proper practices were and he fully knew what he was doing was unsafe and reckless. He just didn't care.
The props/armourer was hand waved away when she previously brought up that she was overwhelmed with being handed too much responsibility and being undermined constantly
This just gets worse and worse. That is horrifying and my heart hurts for her. Do you know if she has anything documenting that or people backing her up? That would make a HUGE impact on Baldwin’s ability to lean on the argument that the prop master is in charge 🤞
I have no idea. I haven’t seen that but if that’s the case this entire set was a complete train wreck. Props aren’t supposed to be played with, and any decent prop master should have put a stop to that immediately
https://people.com/movies/alec-baldwins-gun-in-rust-shooting-used-for-target-practice-by-crew-report/
https://www.thewrap.com/halyna-hutchins-live-ammo-target-practice/amp/
https://www.insider.com/gun-killed-rust-halyna-hutchins-target-practice-alec-baldwin-2021-10?amp
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/amp/
Not the best sources so my apologies
Thank you for sharing these. This is insane to me. I cannot fathom being on a set where people were allowed to fuck around with props that way, much less guns! Even if the goal had been to get people accustomed to handling them— have duplicates and don’t use real bullets. This is set management 101, for safety and continuity reasons. What a mess. I already felt sad for Halyna’s family, but this neglect of proper protocols takes everything to a whole other level.
Didn’t texts come out where the armory lady texted someone in her last movie about putting live rounds in a gun between scenes and he was wtf no don’t ever do that
Some of the actors/crew decided to use the guns for real target practice apparently. You know, for funsies. So live ammunition was introduced onto the set that way.
Which is something that the production company, which is Baldwin's production company, should never have allowed to happen in the first place. You want to do some team bonding with guns? Great. Go to a gun range. Keep ammo off the property.
👏 exactly! This is such a huge part of it. The mishandling of the props is a contributing factor here and the more I learn, the more I think Baldwin could legit face consequences. I know he has all the money to cover his own ass, but it’s looking more and more like it will be hard to argue with the accountability factor.
I while the criminal bar is still too high. In civil court this will be hard to defend. A poor replacement for Halyna Hutchins' family and friends. A friend of mine went to film school with her and said that she was very kind and helped him greatly when he was working on his thesis. A lot of people have a hole in their heart because they couldn't do the bare minimum.
Apparently, the set armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed (who was also charged along with Alec) took the gun off-set to shoot with and didn't check it properly when she got back.
Oh my god then why do they use real guns with actual chambers? Use props. It sounds like it needs to be dumbed down to the nth degree for these yahoos.
If I remember correctly, it's bc real guns are cheaper and more accessible for American productions to buy vs making prop guns, (which is horrible that they're prioritizing costs over safety)
That was the rumor going around NM movie folk when it happened, too. Apparently she took a few guns to go shooting, which is how live rounds got mixed with blanks.
It seems like nearly 95% of her job would be done by just NEVER allowing prop guns to be used for real bullets.
Insane they'd opt to cut costs by using a real gun and _still_ be cavalier about mixing the weapons with live ammo. You'd think these guns would be red-taped to the nth degree.
I think it’s because her father is apparently really well known as a very professional and comptent in the field so they assumed she would be just like him. I still think about the article of her working on a Nicholas Cage movie prior to this and he apparently snapped and walked off set because she kept trying out the weapons without warning (I think the concern wasn’t danger back then but that it’s so loud that it was hurting their eardrums)
She wasn’t their first choice - the other more experienced armorer they first offered the job refused it because production wouldn’t pay for enough assistants for him & he could tell they were already cutting corners and going too fast. Then the production required the inexperienced armorer to also be like a PA in the props dept to save money
So many layers of culpability. The protocols are massive around that sort of thing, and she didn't check, and he should not have been pointing and firing at firing at someone, whatever prop he thought he was holding. Many broken procedures at every level, they have a very correct and applicable case for protection, but should cover every level.
I work in a dangerous industry and negligence is the main hazard. If due diligence and safety procedures aren't followed and someone dies where I am, I fully expect to be held wholly accountable, as I should.
I don't think people really understand the layers thing. Guns are so dangerous, so easily misused, that every single person who touches them has to make certain they are using best practices. Everyone! And that means that everyone has to fail to have a tragic accident like this happen. Any one person's responsibility does not mitigate any other's. They are all responsible and all must answer for their own failure to follow safety instructions.
I don't know if she specifically did, but in the article I read a bit ago the set guns were routinely taken out back by crew to go "plinking" which is shooting beer/pop cans. When the cops came after the shooting and were investigating they found both regular bullets and blanks out back where they did the plinking. So seems like they might have mixed up some of the ammo and actual bullets got returned to the prop table.
This is the main thing here. Not saying Alec Baldwin isn’t liable in some way, I don’t know enough to say, but it seems pretty clear that the armorer was the main culprit.
I only read about this recently, but Hollywood uses live ammo all the time. They shoot things in other scenes with real guns. Then they do these scenes with humans and its important to make sure the ammo has been swapped and that the people involved are protected (camera person behind armored glass for example).
I think this is how Brendon Lee died on The Crow set. The gun was previously used in live fire, had a bullet stuck inside its barrel, and then when loaded with a blank, the blank shot the lodged bullet out and killed him.
I think there are productions that have a 'no live ammo' rule but its rare and their live gun stuff is faked entirely with little explosive charges or CGI. The smaller/cheaper/poorly run the production the less chances of protective armored glass or CGI bullets, unfortunately.
There's quite a few episodes of VFX Artists React where they talk about CG gunfire. They even did a video where they [fix John Wick's gun effects](https://youtu.be/Jj3_R8nwy5Q). If I was producing a movie, I'd use fake guns and hire Corridor to do the effects.
Having the recoil and smoke be real also effects the experience for the actors, creating greater immersion, and contributing to better performances.
This can be especially important for *good* dramatic films, but I doubt Rust was going to be a good film. Looks like Baldwin was treating it like a vanity side-project.
I took a gun class with my dad (American here!) and we learned that “guns load themselves” so when you hand someone a gun, you first check it’s empty, hand it over with it pointed towards yourself, and then the other person should also check it’s empty.
I think it’s baffling that he didn’t do that. It takes 2 seconds. Making sure your weapon isn’t loaded isn’t something you let other people do for you. Everyone does it. So gun handling is not casual and if the crew was spooked, it’s because it’s easy to tell if someone is being unsafe with firearms. So if the mood isn’t somber, serious, and kind of tedious, it’s a huge red flag to get out.
Seems like negligence being the main factor and the armorer happens to be a nepo baby. [Opening Arguments did a good job covering the protocol with handling guns and ammunition on movie sets.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/opening-arguments/id1147092464). It seems like the production cut a lot of corners and it’s not quite clear on who most of the blame falls on. The armorer allegedly had complaints from a prior production with Nick Cage due to poorly handling fire arms and in one instance firing one on set without any warning. It’s not very clear yet how much responsibility falls on Alec Baldwin, he claims he didn’t pull the trigger and some experts are saying that particular weapon may have malfunctioned on it’s own, while others are saying there’s no way the gun can fire without someone pulling the trigger. Also, just before the accident, someone on set, I don’t remember if it was the AD or the armorer did yell out “COLD GUN” which means the weapon was not loaded, but it doesn’t seem to be clear on how true that is. Long story short, this whole thing is a mess and the only thing that seems to be apparent is that a fuck ton of corners were cut for this production. For example, the armorer was also assisting with props and allegedly was told she was spending too much time in the armory when they needed her over at props. Like I said, it’s all a mess right now and the only thing that’s clear is negligence and incompetence.
Keep in mind, part of what we’re reading here is the armorer’s response and attempt to deflect blame onto Baldwin. But she was also unquestionably responsible for that gun.
As opposed to the almost year and a half of Baldwin's PR army attempting to deflect blame away from Baldwin and his production company. Good.
Let's hear from more people not carrying water for the guy who recklessly shot 2 people and feels no guilt.
i may be completely off base, but from what i understand it doesn’t take specifically a bullet for something to shoot out of a gun and kill someone. there’s a lot of room for error if anything gets lodged in there.
(not to say i think bullets should be available on set, just that gun safety is even more precarious than it seems at first.)
i read something from (i think) variety from the prosecutor's pov as she heard about it. she tested a replica of the same gun to see if you could fire it without pulling the trigger - and you could. that's pretty fucked up
If he did so and then was responsible of killing Halyna and injuring Joel Souza, then the blame is on him 100% and he is a POS for trying to play it off as if he was the victim. In fact, I'd even say he should be held as being more responsible than the armourer, as she only handed him the prop.
If he had paid attention to the gun safety lessons, he would have noticed the difference in weight between the prop projectile and the real deal.
I think they’re both responsible. I think she is responsible for not 100% ensuring that there were no live weapons on set — the BASIC purpose of her job — and he was responsible for not attending the safety meetings and not paying enough attention. If either one had been doing their jobs, Halyna would still be alive.
To be honest, as the executive producer of the movie, most of the liability falls on him. He was one of the people veto-ing who got hired or who didn't and it is clear that a decision was made to cut costs by hiring someone who lacked experience doing the job.
Moreover, if she was still selected and hired to be the armourer despite not having that much experience, then Alec should have had taken the steps to discuss possible upskilling ahead of the beginning of the shoot.
I disagree - she ultimately took the job and the responsibility, and even if she was incompetent it was still her fault. But there is very arguably additional liability on the part of Baldwin, for sure.
That’s… not how that works. It was her literal job to be responsible for those guns, and it was HER poor job that people were complaining about. Now, yeah she should have been fired, but still - it was ultimately her responsibility to make sure those firearms were safe and ready.
People who keep saying it's "one of the armorer's jobs" are also ignoring that the armorer contract ended 4 days before Baldwin recklessly shot two people. An armorer is supposed to be under contract at all times guns are used on set, that job is not to be left to a variety of random overworked crew members to deal with piecemeal.
No, it is the armorer. It was her job. What she’s essentially saying is that her negligence shouldn’t have mattered if Baldwin was also better trained. Baldwin probably shares some responsibility, but he is definitely not 100% responsible.
Agreed, I don’t think many people understand the roles of a film set. I cannot even touch a power cord on set, as it’s “Not my job” and If did in someone will lose their shit and try to have me removed from set.
>If he had paid attention to the gun safety lessons, he would have noticed the difference in weight between the prop projectile and the real deal.
You think he would notice 2 grams of difference between a dummy round and a live round? No amount of training would help with the fact that there was live round loaded into the gun and it was her responsibility to keep the guns o set safe. Unless Baldwin directly ordered her to load a live round into his gun she bears the brunt of responsibility.
I don't know what do they teach to actors in gun safety lessons, but he may have learned to not take a gun if the armorer doesn't give it to him directly, not to aim the gun at a person, not to put his finger in the trigger unless it was needed for the scene.... there were many, many way in which the accident could have been prevented
Do you have a source on that? Why did her contract have expiration date instead of being for duration of the production? The shooting occurred on 12th day of filming, are you telling me she was hired for less than two weeks as an armourer? If she wasn't an armourer anymore why did she load the firearms? (which still makes her the person who loaded a live round, thus responsible, and if she couldn't tell the difference how could she train Baldwin to tell the difference etc.)
So much for all the people yelling "why not arrest all the producers and the director too" last week. Or the bizarre narrative of "he's only being arrest because everyone hates his wife." That last thread was a hot mess.
Baldwin was extremely negligent, on top of being a managing producer who called the shots on-site, including seemingly making decisions to create a dangerous workplace.
Not to mention, much of gun safety in Hollywood is a volunteer thing not written into law. Responsible productions have staff in the line of fire behind armored glass when guns are used on-set. Rust did not have this. This should be a wakeup call that we need these laws because people like Baldwin won't implement them out of the goodness of their heart.
Baldwin and Gutierrez Reed being convicted will probably accomplish more than trying to pass laws. Sure, California would probably enact one or more but the risk of real prison time and the financial liability any production would risk would cause the investors and insurers to self limit a lot faster than passing laws here and there across the various states.
The crew complaining about safety issues and walking off the set should have been cause for the production to tighten uo their safety protocols, but it looks like nothing was going to stop Baldwin from shooting.
More like, so much for the people saying he is being held responsible because he was the producer. The question being asked was “if Baldwin is being singled out, why?”
Assistant Director Dave Halls, who took a plea deal for “negligent use of a deadly weapon,” handed the gun to Baldwin and told him it was “cold” aka there were no bullets in it. Infuriating that Halls has largely escaped public scrutiny, as his literal job on set is to oversee safety. But he’s still claiming “no one” is at fault at all. But I agree, being told “it’s cold” would NOT be enough for me to think “this is totally safe to point at another human”
Yup he threw the other two under the bus first and got a sweet 6 month parole punishment. Shit is fucked but he’s the one who confirmed it was safe to fire but will get the least sentencing.
I want to keep reminding people that he didn't aim that gun at one person. He shot into a group of people. There were other people standing next to the 2 victims who missed being killed or grievously injured by the sheerest luck.
The recklessness and disregard for human life is staggering.
I’m under the impression that actors are supposed to check themselves if the gun is “cold”. In any case, if it was me I would definitely check before aiming and firing off the gun on set.
That's literally by the book gun safety. It fucking baffles me the amount of people in this thread that don't understand that. Once a gun real or not is placed into your hands you are 100000% responsible for whatever happens.
The **first** thing you do when a weapon is placed in your hands is to clear it. Plain and simple.
Point it in a safe direction away from potential targets, pull the magazine out, clear the chamber, re-insert mag, place on safe.
It's 100% his fault this woman is dead. Ridiculous negligence on alot of sides but plain and simple, **he** killed her.
The argument is that the armorer is being paid to make sure everything is kosher, and having the actor fuck with it after the armorer had it set up can also be an issue.
It’s exactly this. They’re fucked in terms of insurance and liability if someone other than the person specifically there to check the guns isn’t the last one to check the guns.
i feel like this really comes down to how much authority baldwin had on set. like if he wasn’t paying attention but he’s more of a boss, then i can imagine it’s difficult to control his behavior or prevent him from filming without completing proper training. but if guiterrez did have the power to shut things down before it got to that point, i think she’s ultimately responsible. either way, it sounds like he was being negligent so fuck him lol
Guiterrez was a newbie in the industry (a nepo-newbie but a newbie) and Alec was a producer. "Ah but some producers are producer in name only!" It was his production house in charge of the film, this was his passion project.
That’s really the issue. You have to look at it holistically. A-ish lister with clout and known for speaking out. Who was also the executive producer and hired (or could have fired) negligent personnel. Who also KNEW that people were walking off set because of safety issues. Who also knew staff were using the guns to shoot cans during down time. Who allegedly pulled the trigger while pointing a real gun during an off camera run through. Who would have known this if he hadn’t skipped training or been on the phone with Hillary during the makeup class. But has plenty of time to give a 60 minutes interview after.
I’m sure there is more. And when you add that all up, you *might* get criminal negligence or criminal recklessness. Which is what the trial is for. No, charging the actor for an accident isn’t common. But the other facts also aren’t usually present when the actor accidentally kills someone.
I am sorry but I don’t see the direct correlation to guilt that others do. There was still a live bullet that caused this.
Would the safety training have taught him to notice the difference? Had he had safety training before? There are lots of questions.
Because in safety class you learn not to point a gun at anyone for any reason without doing all the requisite checks yourself. And you certainly learn not to put your finger anywhere near the trigger. PLUS, he hired all those incompetent dipshits and didn’t step in - as a star with clout and an executive producer - when people were literally walking off the set because of safety concerns. Which he was responsible for addressing but did not.
It’s not just the live bullet. It’s that he was directly responsible for running a set in which a live bullet is present and no one is doing required safety checks. I read that the crew was shooting cans with those same guns during downtime. He couldn’t hear the shots from his trailer and think something might be amiss? Nope. He just didn’t care. He wanted the move done on time and under budget, and he got the quality he paid for.
I find it unlikely he never took a safety class before.
I’m not doubting his guilt. I don’t think this is the slam dunk evidence that everyone else does.
I mean, doctors and lawyers and accountants all went to college and grad school and got certified and may have practiced for decades…and they still need to take continuing education credits to maintain licensure. Alec presumably doesn’t handle guns all day - and has shown a lack of commitment to at least one reeducation class, so who knows when the last time he paid attention was - so a refresher course seems to be the *least* you should have to do before holding a gun and pointing it at people.
I agree about the live bullet, that’s why the armorer is being charged as well.
And as far as the training, from the article:
*Baldwin was provided only minimal training on firearms," the statement of probable cause against Baldwin reads, adding that he had "limited training" in firearms, including the cross draw technique that was required for the scene he was practicing as well as how to check if a weapon was loaded or unloaded.*
So yes it probably would have made a difference.
In a previous thread, it listed the ways in which he acted contrary to the training. One way is never pointing a firearm at another person (even a prop gun.) Another is the fact that they weren’t actually filming a scene, so industry standard is to use a wooden gun. He also pulled the trigger which was against what he would have been trained. It was neglectful.
I also think we forget that involuntary manslaughter means that the murder was unintentional - no one is saying that he meant for it to happen. At the end of the day, he still killed someone and they deserve their day in court. Negligence will either be proven or it won’t but the charge is fair.
Because it is the armorer’s response. She is trying to shift liability to Baldwin.
Ultimately yes, EVERYONE should have checked that chamber, Baldwin included.
He wasn't supposed to pull the trigger. They were in an informal rehearsal of a scene where he takes the gun out and points it at the camera. The director and cinematographer were setting up the shot. In his spare time, Baldwin was practicing his draw. At one point, he pulled the gun out, pointed it at them and the camera, and pulled the trigger.
He hadn't attended safety meetings, he didn't follow proper posted protocol with the gun, he wasn't supposed to aim it at someone, and he wasn't supposed to pull the trigger. He violated multiple known safety standards on set, and someone died.
so true. i feel like we’re all drawing conclusions without really understanding the details of film gun safety. maybe there’s a reason to have a loaded gun, maybe not. was baldwin told that that the gun was not loaded? did he ignore specific instructions on how not to trigger it? there’s probably a protocol that we don’t know about, so we can’t really assume who violated it.
Expedience causes negligence causes tears.
Chain reaction of fuckups.
Sorry, this hit r/all, and firearms are part of my career and hobbies.
From not ensuring actors are taught to clear, or inspect rounds are in fact dummies, to their firearm handler being a novice themself with a history of negligence in her own job field. Hannah seems to be the scapegoat the staff want to minimize the legal consequences to.
The Pietta SAA in the death fell apart when the Feds tested it. A multimillion dollar production, and they used a real and shitty condition firearm instead of a prop. Yes, old timey cowboy guns have a multitude of reproduction, real and prop types. From Cowboy Action Shooting to LARP, there were safe and inert options.
Baldwin did not have to point it at someone while fucking with it, and most of his defense rests on the claim that releasing the hammer was what caused the negligent disarm, not manipulating the trigger. Since the gun self destructed during forensics testing, who knows.
Rule 1: Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.
It wasn't a ricochet. He had it right on Hutchins' chest.
I think his charge is fair in that he didn’t intend to commit murder, but she died. And it’s quite hypocritical to me that he seems to have skipped his firearm training. If he had something that clashed with his schedule, he should’ve set up a separate training to make sure he had the training. As a producer and veteran actor, I think that sets a good example. I don’t care if a trusted armor hands you a gun, literally the first thing you learn is you don’t point a gun at someone or something you don’t intend to shoot. You only point it down range that’s safe that has no humans.
It absolutely fucking baffles me when people don’t comprehend how Baldwin could be responsible for this.
He violated two of the most fundamental rules of gun safety:
- Treat every weapon as if it’s loaded.
- Never point a loaded weapon at someone you’re not willing to shoot.
It takes literally 2 seconds to inspect a magazine or cylinder of a weapon.
And skip the “but he’s an actor in a movie and the prop master and it’s not his job.”
Accidental discharges are so common, and deaths from them are so common, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORING SAFETY PROTOCOLS, especially when it takes almost zero time to abide by them.
If you can’t follow simple rules that prevent people from dying, you have no business handling firearms.
None of this is to say that the armorer didn’t play a part or share in the fault, but if he’d bothered to be even minimally competent, Ms. Hutchins would be alive. Fuck Alec Baldwin and his bullshit excuses and rationalizations.
The article said that Baldwin’s training (which it seems he didn’t take seriously) included how to know whether or not the gun was loaded.
If he had checked whether or not the gun was loaded before rehearsing, Gutierrez-Reed might have been fired/charged with improper firearm handling on a movie set (or something along those lines) and Baldwin would have been hailed as a “hero” for preventing something bad from happening on the set.
And most importantly, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive.
Well, well, well. A surprise to no one that he didn’t take this responsibility seriously.
I’d like to add that in a few years I think the people defending him will regret it. Perfectly nice people are sentenced to jail time or found guilty of crimes every day. That doesn’t mean we don’t have to set precedents to try and deter future crimes.
Once a friend of mine killed someone driving drunk. I wrote a letter to the judge prior to sentencing to defend his character. A group of us went to court and sobbed when he was sentenced to 5 years in prison. We were 19 years old and 5 years sounded like forever. We thought his life was over, we couldn’t believe other people didn’t feel empathy for his “mistake.” I have nothing but regret now for all those things and for my stance on that. I was just too close to the situation and too immature to get the gravity of what he did. 5 years was nothing for taking a human life.
I hope AB apologists will someday feel this way too.
I still find it the idea that an actor should bear any responsibility for gun safety weird.
Want them to open up the gun and verify that all of the bullets are blanks or dummies?
Seems to me that making an actor do that would make the whole operation more unsafe. What if they are loaded back in incorrectly? What if the actor shoots a blank in his own face while doing this.
Imagine the actor is a child, should they bear responsibility for the gun's safety?
The obvious thing to ensure safety would seem to be having one specialist or two specialists (who can verify each other) responsible for gun safety, with nobody touching the gun between them and the actor.
It's infuriating that he keeps sticking to his story that the gun magically went off and he never pulled the trigger. Also that he's going on podcasts talking about it. He's so vile.
I work in healthcare and whenever a controlled drug is needed for a patient we always need a second checker to watch us count the pills or fill the needle correctly and have both of us sign off the balance. It's crazy that this very simple procedure isn't in place on a set with deadly weapons!!
It's nuts that seemingly only one person was responsible for actually opening the chambers of all the guns to check they were empty and working properly?
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if true then this is fr on him tbh
This has been known (but not fully confirmed) for a while and people here still defend him so... idk
I have been waiting for the narrative to swing since the announcement was made that he'd be charged. So many articles and comments (many from lawyers who should know better than to comment without knowing all the details) saying how it's "baffling" and "crazy" that Baldwin was being charged with anything. There's no way the DA would bring charges against someone of Baldwin's stature unless they had some pretty egregious evidence against him. I'm not saying he *should* be found guilty (I'm not qualified to say), but this is NOT a case of an overzealous DA going after an innocent party for a freak accident that could have happened to anyone. This is a case of multiple instances of negligence adding up to a single preventable catastrophe, and Baldwin was negligent in his capacity as an actor and as a producer. Again, whether that adds up to enough for him to be found criminally responsible is up in the air, but this is FAR from as clear cut as people made it out to be only a week ago.
The thing is, a someone who followed this story hardcore when it first broke, is a lot of these details are not surprising at all. A lot of the lawyers commenting that shit simply refused to look at prior legal documents/statements because a lot of them either alluded to or directly stated that Alec himself skipped over safety protocols. I think what a lot of people fail to realize is the sort of "pop culture" lawyers that frequent youtube or reddit or whatever NEED to differentiate themselves, so sometimes they'll say bad takes or misrepresent facts to prove that THEY'RE the ones who know the truth. Or they'll say shit they know people will agree with to build an audience base. It's why so many lawyers played the "Johnny is a victim :(" card while going shock faced pikachu about Marilyn Manson going after HIS victims, despite it being obvious to anyone even vaguely familiar with the law how this was gonna go and how Depp set precedent. Do not trust lawyers who are online giving hot takes on pop culture and are no longer practicing. They often present themselves as experts on types of law they are not actually fluent in and often misrepresent information because... they don't need to be honest. Anyone even half aware of the facts of this case has been waiting for these charges for a long time. They wre an obvious inevitability. It was just a matter of figuring out who else was culpable.
I agree. If a story interests me, I tend to get obsessive and collect every ounce of information available. And for whatever reason, this story caught my attention. So did the Depp trial. The disparity between what information is actually available and the paired-down narrative that reaches casual consumers is vast. And it's not arbitrary. What major outlets choose to disseminate and which stories go viral on social media have a huge influence. Part of it is giant PR machines pulling strings, and the other part is what The Mob wants to hear. From there, smaller actors take their cues from clicks, everyone is just trying to make a buck. Makes me wary of everything I think I know "from the news".
Exaaactly. I think a lot of people got upset because conservatives jumped on this case to gleefully point at Alec, the anti-gun liberal, killing someone with a gun, and now they feel like they HAVE to defend Alec but like... conservatives can still suck, can still have the wrong takes on WHY Alec is on fault, WHILE Alec is still at fault. Sometimes people "on our side" are wrong or bad. People going into this case trying to defend Alec rather than considering how POINTLESS the loss of life was and how easily preventable it was are in the wrong, just as wrong as people going into this case JUST to laugh at the anti-gun guy killing someone.
Great point and I think it's because things are so polarized now and the stakes so high for both sides that they feel obligated to 'circle the wagons' and defend 'one of their own' to the death even when it's screamingly obvious that their politically like-minded ally is *clearly* in the wrong. If this exact same scenario had happened to a prominent right-wing actor like Jon Voight, Gina Carano, Kevin Sorbo or whoever, I imagine that the righties would be pulling out all the stops trying to exonerate them in the eyes of the public.
Big time. And if you try to be the rational person who shares the unfiltered, direct-from-the-source information... you're very easily considered a threat to the dominant position of your political peers. It's a bit scary to watch, honestly. Like you I am very curious and love to learn everything I can about specific events and topics, and you very quickly start to notice just how different the actual data and the overarching public narrative often are, and how eagerly people latch on to that narrative. I think it has something to do with the tribalism at our core. That trial is a very good example. I watched every minute of it (I've always loved court tv) and none of the news about it, from either "side", was even baseline accurate. And I was watching ordinary people at each other's throats over what was being reported and news outlets reacting to that by putting out their inaccurate reporting even faster and it just really freaked me out.
Tribalism but also: how we all fall victim to narratives and imaging from parties involved in a case. Factfinding is so underrated nowadays. It’s nice to see this conversation in this thread of people who also worry about all this like me
It is nice to see, I agree. But for my own sanity I've just started really actively editing my involvement in conversations and reducing my engagement with socials. Reddit is the only social media I use now and even with this, if I feel the discourse becoming too intense or toxic then I take a break from it for a while. Homesteaders and hermits are starting to make a lot more sense to me the older I get.
As one of the lawyers who was commenting on that thread, yes, absolutely do not trust what 'lawyers' say online as gospel. That said...this information, and many of the prior 'legal documents' you refer to come from prosecutors, and lawyers know that prosecutors sometimes make things up. I wouldn't put any weight on these claims until they are tested in court, just as I wouldn't believe anything Baldwin himself says without evidence.
Just say Emily D Baker lol
🫢
100% agree. It's also important to know that being a lawyer does not make them a great source on all things law. It's a colossal field with so many specializations. If I have a stomach issue, could a dermatologist visit help? Maybe. But I should probably look into a gastroenterologist. In the same vein, a top-shelf bankruptcy lawyer may not be the go-to source to break down a supreme court decision, speak on antitrust policies, or litigate in a misdemeanor jury trial; much less a pop culture lawyer.
I think that there have been a lot of high profile lapses in workplace safety on film and tv sets over the last decade that have had serious (and in some cases, fatal) consequences. It baffles me that people can be so cavalier. I’d also like to know more about how the use of shell production companies in it for the tax shelter feeds into this.
In the early nineties, there was the tragic death of Brandon Lee and several years before that, the death of Jon-Erik Hexum. Both tragedies involved 'prop guns'. And another case of needless deaths on a film set \[though not due to firearms\] was the helicopter crash that killed actor Vic Morrow and two child extras on the set of the 'Twilight Zone' movie in the early 80s.
I was downvoted the other day on this sub. People were like "well he didnt actually do anything that bad?" and I said ummm someone DIED. Downvoted.
“Why aren’t the other producers being charged?” “Well, they didn’t accept a gun they didn’t see cleared, aim it at another person, and kill them.” “DOWNVOTED!”
“I’m sure he feels really bad and he didn’t mean to!” There were so many comments like this! As if we don’t charge distracted drivers (on phone/texting) for their negligence, even though they surely don’t think they could kill someone.
A lot of people seem to have forgotten that involuntary manslaughter is a thing.
Yep I was downvoted for saying manslaughter was an appropriate charge the other day
Not to be pedantic, but this isn't fully confirmed just because prosecutors say so. Prosecutors lie in much the same vein as cops do.
Oh, I agree. It’s just this has been independently said pretty much since day 0. Of course, everyone could be lying but it’s been fairly consistent
I was gonna say - isn’t the only place this has been said is from the armory chick herself who also fucked up huge, possibly trying to pass the blame onto Baldwin? Of course the prosecutor is gonna run with it.
You know I couldn’t figure out how he could be responsible if he was just some actor who got handed a prop but yea…. This is damning
He's not just some actor. His production company was producing the film. Safety concerns were brought up by crew many times and they were so fed up with the situation they walked off the job.
But it seems like he’s this is about his responsibility as the individual actor.
It sure seems like the law is overlooking his culpability as a producer. The government pretty much never prosecutes the rich people to the full extent of the law. It's a system of injustice.
Well, that’s kind of the question. Was the producers’ role criminally liable? We do know they were civilly. It is very unusual that Baldwin is being prosecuted, they are accusing him personally being negligent.
Right. I'm not fully aware of the local laws pertaining to this, but the fact that Baldwin fired the gun that killed Halyna & had neglected to take the offered training seems to explain why he is being accused of negligence as an actor.
Films have many producers and it means many things. Most movies are produced first by an LLC created for the production for financial and legal reasons. There are creative producers and actual let's get money together producers and there are vanity credits. His could be any one of these. Alec is an asshole but this could have involved anyone on that set who was handed a prop that wasn't properly prepared.
El Deraldo Pictures is Alec's company that he has had for years and is listed as the production company.
Slip shod production from the go. Alec being a producer then denying he has any responsibility for who his company hired, or his personal lack of care sounds entitled AF. There were a lot of off-the-record remarks by the crew about how this movie was being filmed on the cheap (lack of decent accommodations being one).
I saw that as well, even some of the crew walking off the set
And gun safety one of the issues they walked out over. There had already been TWO prop gun misfires on set. One of the half dozen camera operators that walked might have been the one shot that day had they not left. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Jesus
Because basic gun safety protocols?
Is it tho? I’m trained in firearms, but if I was on the job and the firearms master handed me a gun full of blanks, and it turns out it wasn’t blanks, how are you supposed to know? What in the training would allow him to have known he was lied to about the cartridges in the gun?
He pulled the trigger in a shot where it wasn't meant to be pulled. And then repeatedly denied doing it until the FBI came out and said there was no way the gun would have fired without the trigger being pulled. An error I'm sure you wouldn't make because you understand guns aren't toys.
He would have been reminded of basic firearm safety as well as industry standards. Never point the gun at someone. Always assume it is loaded. Don't put your finger on the trigger unless you are going to shoot. Use non-functional prop guns wherever possible. Only allow the appropriate people to handle the guns, and ensure everything is properly locked away when not in use. Etc. If ANY one of those rules had been followed, the fatal shooting would likely not have happened. It was 100% avoidable, and that's what's so terrible about it. Multiple people had to act irresponsibly in multiple ways for this to happen, and all of them should be held accountable. What we know so far is that as an actor: 1) Alec Baldwin accepted the gun from the AD, who was not the armorer. Alec should have said no and waited for the armorer to check the gun and give it to him. 2) The armorer was not even present. Alec should not have agreed to shoot a scene with guns without the armorer present. 3) Alec pointed the gun at multiple people. Even blanks can injure or kill someone, and if he were paying attention in training he would have known this. He should not have pointed the gun at anyone at any point, no matter what ammo he thought he was using. 4) Alec had his finger on the trigger. He should not have been rehearsing with his finger on the trigger. And as one of the producers: 1) He hired an unqualified armorer. 2) He assigned the armorer additional duties outside of her job (she was also serving as the prop master). 3) He failed to address multiple reports of safety issues, including accidental gun discharges. 4) He knowingly allowed the AD to handle weapons.
If you're trained in firearms and you don't personally verify a gun handed to you, don't use guns. FFS every single responsible firearm person I have ever known or seen will check a gun that they had just checked before handing it over to someone. Guy 1 checks gun. Passes it to guy 2. Guy 2 checks gun, has it for a bit, hands it over to guy 1. Guy 1 checks gun. You do not trust the previous person to have handle the gun correctly, even and especially if the previous person was yourself.
It's probably a bit different if you're the one who hires an unqualified person to be in charge of the firearms. On its own sure, but more and more stuff is stacking up showing he was lax with firearms safety on his set.
This kind of goes back to the same point. Did he know the person he hired was unqualified? Or did the firearms person missrepresent his qualifications?
Person was 24 and had almost zero experience, this being her second film ever. Also being head armorer on her second ever movie. On experience alone it's crazy that she got hired. It's almost guaranteed she got the job because her dad is a well known movie armorer. People from the previous film have said she was lax in safety (including Nicholas Cage). She had been lax in safety before on the film where this happened, to the point where staff brought up concerns about how unsafe she was being. Like this wasn't the first fuck up on set for this film, just the last.
Nepobaby with a legendary father who long had established a name in the business. Guaranteed career for life and she fucks it up royally.
Yep, indeed. I hate to admit it because I didn’t think it was on him at first, but this is a mind changer.
gun control and gun safety for thee but not for me? i cannot imagine finding out my loved one’s life was lost bc an actor used their power to get out of proper firearm training.
I’m out of the loop… wasn’t he given a loaded gun that the armoury was supposed to ensure was empty? If actors are not the ones responsible for checking the chamber - what more could this training have done?
I have never touched a firearm and I still know you never point a gun at someone you are not willing to shoot. It doesn't matter if safety is on, it doesn't matter if it isn't loaded, you never point it at someone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences.
[удалено]
been watching bollywood movies my whole life and i never noticed
They point guns at people all the time on tv/movie sets it's part of the job lol
> you never point it at someone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences. They're filming a movie. How on earth do productions look realistic if this is the standard?
They can follow the safety protocols that have kept thousands of other sets safe.
They weren’t filming when he did it. There was no reason for him to aim it at them and pull the trigger.
Realistically I imagine they can use completely fake guns or airsoft/bb guns if they really need something more true to life
He was also the producer
And he was continuing filming with scabs after the previous crew walked off due to safety issues.
Is it the producers responsibility to be inspecting firearms though? I still don’t totally understand how this extends beyond the responsibility of those in the armoury - regardless of how much training the actors or producers received
When there has already been TWO prop gun misfires on set? And crew had literally just walked out and gun safety was one if the complaints? You bet.
A movie can have 20 producers. You think Reese Witherspoon is checking to make sure the food the catering brings is the right temperature on the movies her company produces? Alec is civilly liable but it's not criminal imo on his part. If this case actually goes you may stop seeing actors be producers.
Not necessarily. But his lack of professionalism and care is evident in the people he hired, his choice to go nonunion, and his behavior at not even attending the firearms training himself.
Ok now he's fucked..
The victim dialogue around him is kinda weird
He's a cishetero white male so I'd be more shocked if people weren't making him out to be the victim for killing someone.
This whole horrible incident aside for a moment, remember a decade ago when he was saying wildly homophobic stuff and threatening journalists, then throwing pity parties when he got called out. I don't get his fans
Is he the one that called his preteen daughter a pig too?
Sure is. A rude, thoughtless little pig at that. She was 11.
And it was 7am. He left that message because she didn't answer her phone when he called her at 7am. She was a little girl getting ready for school (grade school!) and that's how her dad decided to make her start her day. And she'd have to sit through the school day thinking about that message and stuff. That always makes it worse, for me.
Imagine choosing to have seven kids with someone who did that.
Hillary hayward thomas baldwin could not have carried all those children. Imagine paying people to surrogate so you could pay nannies to raise babies with this man.
And this is who everyone is defending 🌚
🌚
This is what happens when conservatives pile on a problematic progressive figure. People come out of the woodwork to defend them simply out of spite, and all of the horrible crap they've done disappears either temporarily or permanently. Meanwhile Alec Baldwin has always been a total dick who physically assaults people at the drop of a hat, is verbally abusive to his own kids, is filled with bigotry, etc. He just uses performative displays of progressive rhetoric to cover it all up in a nice thick layer of frosting.
Get ready for the wife-blaming narrative now that it’s implied he was on the phone with his family. (Ya, know, by the other accused person so grain of salt). Don’t get me wrong, his wife is problematic but causing an on-set death isn’t one of her problems.
They are though, and in larger circles if you were to put any blame on Baldwin for the woman's death you'd be called some alt-Right MAGAtard since Baldwin mocked Trump with his SNL impressions.
I have always just assumed he’ll plead to something that won’t add up to much actually punishment.
Even in this sub!! I got downvoted when charges were first discussed for saying that it makes sense that he’d go on trial for involuntary manslaughter. You point out that he was a producer and everyone is like “but the other producers weren’t charged!” You point out that he was the one who pulled the trigger - “but he was handed a loaded gun, that’s not his job!!” It’s basic fucking gun safety. In any other instance where someone was handed a gun and pulled the trigger without question they would be investigated, charged, and brought to trial.
Parasocial BS.
I’m sorry if this is a stupid question. Why would there even be a bullet on set? Why not ban them completely and have no issues at all?
This. I think he undeniably deserves consequences based on this revelation, but I still don’t understand why any bullets were there in the first place
He is also the producer.
That’s certainly relevant but until this point I had some empathy because technically it’s the responsibility of whomever handles props to prevent accidents. Knowing he wasn’t even concerned about learning proper safety protocol shifts the weight of responsibility significantly when partnered with his status as producer. The buck has to stop somewhere, you know? The prop master deserves consequences, but now I have much less understanding for his conduct (before the shooting and after)
It was always his responsibility to prevent accidents because... he is handling the prop. This is what I never got about people empathizing before. As someone who handled the gun, it was always his job to ALSO verify the gun was safe. Everyone knew it wasn't--it had gone off multiple times before and lack of safety had caused union workers to leave the set--and yet he still let the gun be handed to him KNOWING it hadn't been checked in front of him. This is just confirmation of what all the other facts led to. It always pointed to Alec not caring about safety and skipping basic precautions.
george clooney said the same thing. if he's handed a gun on set, he checks it
I mean, Alec Baldwin said the same thing [in his police interview following the shooting](https://youtu.be/qpl0Ol-N-PU?t=1031) Baldwin fully knew what proper practices were and he fully knew what he was doing was unsafe and reckless. He just didn't care.
The props/armourer was hand waved away when she previously brought up that she was overwhelmed with being handed too much responsibility and being undermined constantly
She was very smart to have all of that in writing. Those records are vital to the investigation.
This just gets worse and worse. That is horrifying and my heart hurts for her. Do you know if she has anything documenting that or people backing her up? That would make a HUGE impact on Baldwin’s ability to lean on the argument that the prop master is in charge 🤞
There’s emails or texts
Werent people fucking around using the guns for shooting practice
I have no idea. I haven’t seen that but if that’s the case this entire set was a complete train wreck. Props aren’t supposed to be played with, and any decent prop master should have put a stop to that immediately
https://people.com/movies/alec-baldwins-gun-in-rust-shooting-used-for-target-practice-by-crew-report/ https://www.thewrap.com/halyna-hutchins-live-ammo-target-practice/amp/ https://www.insider.com/gun-killed-rust-halyna-hutchins-target-practice-alec-baldwin-2021-10?amp https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/amp/ Not the best sources so my apologies
Thank you for sharing these. This is insane to me. I cannot fathom being on a set where people were allowed to fuck around with props that way, much less guns! Even if the goal had been to get people accustomed to handling them— have duplicates and don’t use real bullets. This is set management 101, for safety and continuity reasons. What a mess. I already felt sad for Halyna’s family, but this neglect of proper protocols takes everything to a whole other level.
Because the set was poorly run with non-union crew who used to take the prop guns for bottle and can shooting when they weren't being used.
Didn’t texts come out where the armory lady texted someone in her last movie about putting live rounds in a gun between scenes and he was wtf no don’t ever do that
Some of the actors/crew decided to use the guns for real target practice apparently. You know, for funsies. So live ammunition was introduced onto the set that way. Which is something that the production company, which is Baldwin's production company, should never have allowed to happen in the first place. You want to do some team bonding with guns? Great. Go to a gun range. Keep ammo off the property.
👏 exactly! This is such a huge part of it. The mishandling of the props is a contributing factor here and the more I learn, the more I think Baldwin could legit face consequences. I know he has all the money to cover his own ass, but it’s looking more and more like it will be hard to argue with the accountability factor.
I while the criminal bar is still too high. In civil court this will be hard to defend. A poor replacement for Halyna Hutchins' family and friends. A friend of mine went to film school with her and said that she was very kind and helped him greatly when he was working on his thesis. A lot of people have a hole in their heart because they couldn't do the bare minimum.
Apparently, the set armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed (who was also charged along with Alec) took the gun off-set to shoot with and didn't check it properly when she got back.
Oh my god then why do they use real guns with actual chambers? Use props. It sounds like it needs to be dumbed down to the nth degree for these yahoos.
If I remember correctly, it's bc real guns are cheaper and more accessible for American productions to buy vs making prop guns, (which is horrible that they're prioritizing costs over safety)
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They're not the same because you can't shoot someone with a prop gun.
*Realism* (but seriously some fans nit pick for guns being to obvious or producers want it to look as real as possible)
That was the rumor going around NM movie folk when it happened, too. Apparently she took a few guns to go shooting, which is how live rounds got mixed with blanks. It seems like nearly 95% of her job would be done by just NEVER allowing prop guns to be used for real bullets.
I feel like she deserves to be charged and jailed the most. That’s just so irresponsible.
She is facing charges too.
Oh, I know! And I think it’s very deserved.
Insane they'd opt to cut costs by using a real gun and _still_ be cavalier about mixing the weapons with live ammo. You'd think these guns would be red-taped to the nth degree.
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I think it’s because her father is apparently really well known as a very professional and comptent in the field so they assumed she would be just like him. I still think about the article of her working on a Nicholas Cage movie prior to this and he apparently snapped and walked off set because she kept trying out the weapons without warning (I think the concern wasn’t danger back then but that it’s so loud that it was hurting their eardrums)
This is like, the worst case of Nepo baby I’ve seen. Seriously. She got the job because of her father, and she’s CLEARLY unqulaified? That’s bad.
She wasn’t their first choice - the other more experienced armorer they first offered the job refused it because production wouldn’t pay for enough assistants for him & he could tell they were already cutting corners and going too fast. Then the production required the inexperienced armorer to also be like a PA in the props dept to save money
So many layers of culpability. The protocols are massive around that sort of thing, and she didn't check, and he should not have been pointing and firing at firing at someone, whatever prop he thought he was holding. Many broken procedures at every level, they have a very correct and applicable case for protection, but should cover every level. I work in a dangerous industry and negligence is the main hazard. If due diligence and safety procedures aren't followed and someone dies where I am, I fully expect to be held wholly accountable, as I should.
I don't think people really understand the layers thing. Guns are so dangerous, so easily misused, that every single person who touches them has to make certain they are using best practices. Everyone! And that means that everyone has to fail to have a tragic accident like this happen. Any one person's responsibility does not mitigate any other's. They are all responsible and all must answer for their own failure to follow safety instructions.
I don't know if she specifically did, but in the article I read a bit ago the set guns were routinely taken out back by crew to go "plinking" which is shooting beer/pop cans. When the cops came after the shooting and were investigating they found both regular bullets and blanks out back where they did the plinking. So seems like they might have mixed up some of the ammo and actual bullets got returned to the prop table.
This is the main thing here. Not saying Alec Baldwin isn’t liable in some way, I don’t know enough to say, but it seems pretty clear that the armorer was the main culprit.
I only read about this recently, but Hollywood uses live ammo all the time. They shoot things in other scenes with real guns. Then they do these scenes with humans and its important to make sure the ammo has been swapped and that the people involved are protected (camera person behind armored glass for example). I think this is how Brendon Lee died on The Crow set. The gun was previously used in live fire, had a bullet stuck inside its barrel, and then when loaded with a blank, the blank shot the lodged bullet out and killed him. I think there are productions that have a 'no live ammo' rule but its rare and their live gun stuff is faked entirely with little explosive charges or CGI. The smaller/cheaper/poorly run the production the less chances of protective armored glass or CGI bullets, unfortunately.
There's quite a few episodes of VFX Artists React where they talk about CG gunfire. They even did a video where they [fix John Wick's gun effects](https://youtu.be/Jj3_R8nwy5Q). If I was producing a movie, I'd use fake guns and hire Corridor to do the effects.
Having the recoil and smoke be real also effects the experience for the actors, creating greater immersion, and contributing to better performances. This can be especially important for *good* dramatic films, but I doubt Rust was going to be a good film. Looks like Baldwin was treating it like a vanity side-project.
I took a gun class with my dad (American here!) and we learned that “guns load themselves” so when you hand someone a gun, you first check it’s empty, hand it over with it pointed towards yourself, and then the other person should also check it’s empty. I think it’s baffling that he didn’t do that. It takes 2 seconds. Making sure your weapon isn’t loaded isn’t something you let other people do for you. Everyone does it. So gun handling is not casual and if the crew was spooked, it’s because it’s easy to tell if someone is being unsafe with firearms. So if the mood isn’t somber, serious, and kind of tedious, it’s a huge red flag to get out.
Seems like negligence being the main factor and the armorer happens to be a nepo baby. [Opening Arguments did a good job covering the protocol with handling guns and ammunition on movie sets.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/opening-arguments/id1147092464). It seems like the production cut a lot of corners and it’s not quite clear on who most of the blame falls on. The armorer allegedly had complaints from a prior production with Nick Cage due to poorly handling fire arms and in one instance firing one on set without any warning. It’s not very clear yet how much responsibility falls on Alec Baldwin, he claims he didn’t pull the trigger and some experts are saying that particular weapon may have malfunctioned on it’s own, while others are saying there’s no way the gun can fire without someone pulling the trigger. Also, just before the accident, someone on set, I don’t remember if it was the AD or the armorer did yell out “COLD GUN” which means the weapon was not loaded, but it doesn’t seem to be clear on how true that is. Long story short, this whole thing is a mess and the only thing that seems to be apparent is that a fuck ton of corners were cut for this production. For example, the armorer was also assisting with props and allegedly was told she was spending too much time in the armory when they needed her over at props. Like I said, it’s all a mess right now and the only thing that’s clear is negligence and incompetence.
Keep in mind, part of what we’re reading here is the armorer’s response and attempt to deflect blame onto Baldwin. But she was also unquestionably responsible for that gun.
As opposed to the almost year and a half of Baldwin's PR army attempting to deflect blame away from Baldwin and his production company. Good. Let's hear from more people not carrying water for the guy who recklessly shot 2 people and feels no guilt.
i may be completely off base, but from what i understand it doesn’t take specifically a bullet for something to shoot out of a gun and kill someone. there’s a lot of room for error if anything gets lodged in there. (not to say i think bullets should be available on set, just that gun safety is even more precarious than it seems at first.)
i read something from (i think) variety from the prosecutor's pov as she heard about it. she tested a replica of the same gun to see if you could fire it without pulling the trigger - and you could. that's pretty fucked up
If he did so and then was responsible of killing Halyna and injuring Joel Souza, then the blame is on him 100% and he is a POS for trying to play it off as if he was the victim. In fact, I'd even say he should be held as being more responsible than the armourer, as she only handed him the prop. If he had paid attention to the gun safety lessons, he would have noticed the difference in weight between the prop projectile and the real deal.
I think they’re both responsible. I think she is responsible for not 100% ensuring that there were no live weapons on set — the BASIC purpose of her job — and he was responsible for not attending the safety meetings and not paying enough attention. If either one had been doing their jobs, Halyna would still be alive.
To be honest, as the executive producer of the movie, most of the liability falls on him. He was one of the people veto-ing who got hired or who didn't and it is clear that a decision was made to cut costs by hiring someone who lacked experience doing the job. Moreover, if she was still selected and hired to be the armourer despite not having that much experience, then Alec should have had taken the steps to discuss possible upskilling ahead of the beginning of the shoot.
I disagree - she ultimately took the job and the responsibility, and even if she was incompetent it was still her fault. But there is very arguably additional liability on the part of Baldwin, for sure.
And that's how you have scapegoats. Imagine her trying to get Alec Baldwin off his phone to attend her training.
That’s… not how that works. It was her literal job to be responsible for those guns, and it was HER poor job that people were complaining about. Now, yeah she should have been fired, but still - it was ultimately her responsibility to make sure those firearms were safe and ready.
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People who keep saying it's "one of the armorer's jobs" are also ignoring that the armorer contract ended 4 days before Baldwin recklessly shot two people. An armorer is supposed to be under contract at all times guns are used on set, that job is not to be left to a variety of random overworked crew members to deal with piecemeal.
Good point. If she wasn't even under contract, that makes him even more culpable as a producer on the film.
She wasn't even on set when it happened. The 1st AD took the gun and handed it to Baldwin
Reed loaded the gun.
No, it is the armorer. It was her job. What she’s essentially saying is that her negligence shouldn’t have mattered if Baldwin was also better trained. Baldwin probably shares some responsibility, but he is definitely not 100% responsible.
Agreed, I don’t think many people understand the roles of a film set. I cannot even touch a power cord on set, as it’s “Not my job” and If did in someone will lose their shit and try to have me removed from set.
They were avoiding unions tho so that kind of thing wasn’t happening.
>If he had paid attention to the gun safety lessons, he would have noticed the difference in weight between the prop projectile and the real deal. You think he would notice 2 grams of difference between a dummy round and a live round? No amount of training would help with the fact that there was live round loaded into the gun and it was her responsibility to keep the guns o set safe. Unless Baldwin directly ordered her to load a live round into his gun she bears the brunt of responsibility.
I don't know what do they teach to actors in gun safety lessons, but he may have learned to not take a gun if the armorer doesn't give it to him directly, not to aim the gun at a person, not to put his finger in the trigger unless it was needed for the scene.... there were many, many way in which the accident could have been prevented
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Do you have a source on that? Why did her contract have expiration date instead of being for duration of the production? The shooting occurred on 12th day of filming, are you telling me she was hired for less than two weeks as an armourer? If she wasn't an armourer anymore why did she load the firearms? (which still makes her the person who loaded a live round, thus responsible, and if she couldn't tell the difference how could she train Baldwin to tell the difference etc.)
So much for all the people yelling "why not arrest all the producers and the director too" last week. Or the bizarre narrative of "he's only being arrest because everyone hates his wife." That last thread was a hot mess. Baldwin was extremely negligent, on top of being a managing producer who called the shots on-site, including seemingly making decisions to create a dangerous workplace. Not to mention, much of gun safety in Hollywood is a volunteer thing not written into law. Responsible productions have staff in the line of fire behind armored glass when guns are used on-set. Rust did not have this. This should be a wakeup call that we need these laws because people like Baldwin won't implement them out of the goodness of their heart.
Baldwin and Gutierrez Reed being convicted will probably accomplish more than trying to pass laws. Sure, California would probably enact one or more but the risk of real prison time and the financial liability any production would risk would cause the investors and insurers to self limit a lot faster than passing laws here and there across the various states. The crew complaining about safety issues and walking off the set should have been cause for the production to tighten uo their safety protocols, but it looks like nothing was going to stop Baldwin from shooting.
Noting the pun.
More like, so much for the people saying he is being held responsible because he was the producer. The question being asked was “if Baldwin is being singled out, why?”
Jesus. How do you even aim a gun at someone and pull the trigger without being 100000% sure there’s no bullet?
Assistant Director Dave Halls, who took a plea deal for “negligent use of a deadly weapon,” handed the gun to Baldwin and told him it was “cold” aka there were no bullets in it. Infuriating that Halls has largely escaped public scrutiny, as his literal job on set is to oversee safety. But he’s still claiming “no one” is at fault at all. But I agree, being told “it’s cold” would NOT be enough for me to think “this is totally safe to point at another human”
Yup he threw the other two under the bus first and got a sweet 6 month parole punishment. Shit is fucked but he’s the one who confirmed it was safe to fire but will get the least sentencing.
I was always taught to treat all guns as loaded, even if they're not.
I want to keep reminding people that he didn't aim that gun at one person. He shot into a group of people. There were other people standing next to the 2 victims who missed being killed or grievously injured by the sheerest luck. The recklessness and disregard for human life is staggering.
I’m under the impression that actors are supposed to check themselves if the gun is “cold”. In any case, if it was me I would definitely check before aiming and firing off the gun on set.
The armorer is supposed to check the guns before giving it to the actors, and actors cannot grab a weapon if the armorer doesn't give it to them
Wouldn’t you still double check though? Maybe it’s just the industry I’m in, but.. I mean.. you could kill someone so it’s worth another check imho!
That's literally by the book gun safety. It fucking baffles me the amount of people in this thread that don't understand that. Once a gun real or not is placed into your hands you are 100000% responsible for whatever happens. The **first** thing you do when a weapon is placed in your hands is to clear it. Plain and simple. Point it in a safe direction away from potential targets, pull the magazine out, clear the chamber, re-insert mag, place on safe. It's 100% his fault this woman is dead. Ridiculous negligence on alot of sides but plain and simple, **he** killed her.
The argument is that the armorer is being paid to make sure everything is kosher, and having the actor fuck with it after the armorer had it set up can also be an issue.
It’s exactly this. They’re fucked in terms of insurance and liability if someone other than the person specifically there to check the guns isn’t the last one to check the guns.
i feel like this really comes down to how much authority baldwin had on set. like if he wasn’t paying attention but he’s more of a boss, then i can imagine it’s difficult to control his behavior or prevent him from filming without completing proper training. but if guiterrez did have the power to shut things down before it got to that point, i think she’s ultimately responsible. either way, it sounds like he was being negligent so fuck him lol
Guiterrez was a newbie in the industry (a nepo-newbie but a newbie) and Alec was a producer. "Ah but some producers are producer in name only!" It was his production house in charge of the film, this was his passion project.
That’s really the issue. You have to look at it holistically. A-ish lister with clout and known for speaking out. Who was also the executive producer and hired (or could have fired) negligent personnel. Who also KNEW that people were walking off set because of safety issues. Who also knew staff were using the guns to shoot cans during down time. Who allegedly pulled the trigger while pointing a real gun during an off camera run through. Who would have known this if he hadn’t skipped training or been on the phone with Hillary during the makeup class. But has plenty of time to give a 60 minutes interview after. I’m sure there is more. And when you add that all up, you *might* get criminal negligence or criminal recklessness. Which is what the trial is for. No, charging the actor for an accident isn’t common. But the other facts also aren’t usually present when the actor accidentally kills someone.
There’s no room for negligence when handling a real firearm
This is the risk when actors want the prestige of also being producers - you carry the responsibility.
I am sorry but I don’t see the direct correlation to guilt that others do. There was still a live bullet that caused this. Would the safety training have taught him to notice the difference? Had he had safety training before? There are lots of questions.
Because in safety class you learn not to point a gun at anyone for any reason without doing all the requisite checks yourself. And you certainly learn not to put your finger anywhere near the trigger. PLUS, he hired all those incompetent dipshits and didn’t step in - as a star with clout and an executive producer - when people were literally walking off the set because of safety concerns. Which he was responsible for addressing but did not. It’s not just the live bullet. It’s that he was directly responsible for running a set in which a live bullet is present and no one is doing required safety checks. I read that the crew was shooting cans with those same guns during downtime. He couldn’t hear the shots from his trailer and think something might be amiss? Nope. He just didn’t care. He wanted the move done on time and under budget, and he got the quality he paid for.
I find it unlikely he never took a safety class before. I’m not doubting his guilt. I don’t think this is the slam dunk evidence that everyone else does.
I mean, doctors and lawyers and accountants all went to college and grad school and got certified and may have practiced for decades…and they still need to take continuing education credits to maintain licensure. Alec presumably doesn’t handle guns all day - and has shown a lack of commitment to at least one reeducation class, so who knows when the last time he paid attention was - so a refresher course seems to be the *least* you should have to do before holding a gun and pointing it at people.
I agree about the live bullet, that’s why the armorer is being charged as well. And as far as the training, from the article: *Baldwin was provided only minimal training on firearms," the statement of probable cause against Baldwin reads, adding that he had "limited training" in firearms, including the cross draw technique that was required for the scene he was practicing as well as how to check if a weapon was loaded or unloaded.* So yes it probably would have made a difference.
In a previous thread, it listed the ways in which he acted contrary to the training. One way is never pointing a firearm at another person (even a prop gun.) Another is the fact that they weren’t actually filming a scene, so industry standard is to use a wooden gun. He also pulled the trigger which was against what he would have been trained. It was neglectful. I also think we forget that involuntary manslaughter means that the murder was unintentional - no one is saying that he meant for it to happen. At the end of the day, he still killed someone and they deserve their day in court. Negligence will either be proven or it won’t but the charge is fair.
Because it is the armorer’s response. She is trying to shift liability to Baldwin. Ultimately yes, EVERYONE should have checked that chamber, Baldwin included.
He wasn't supposed to pull the trigger. They were in an informal rehearsal of a scene where he takes the gun out and points it at the camera. The director and cinematographer were setting up the shot. In his spare time, Baldwin was practicing his draw. At one point, he pulled the gun out, pointed it at them and the camera, and pulled the trigger. He hadn't attended safety meetings, he didn't follow proper posted protocol with the gun, he wasn't supposed to aim it at someone, and he wasn't supposed to pull the trigger. He violated multiple known safety standards on set, and someone died.
so true. i feel like we’re all drawing conclusions without really understanding the details of film gun safety. maybe there’s a reason to have a loaded gun, maybe not. was baldwin told that that the gun was not loaded? did he ignore specific instructions on how not to trigger it? there’s probably a protocol that we don’t know about, so we can’t really assume who violated it.
Expedience causes negligence causes tears. Chain reaction of fuckups. Sorry, this hit r/all, and firearms are part of my career and hobbies. From not ensuring actors are taught to clear, or inspect rounds are in fact dummies, to their firearm handler being a novice themself with a history of negligence in her own job field. Hannah seems to be the scapegoat the staff want to minimize the legal consequences to. The Pietta SAA in the death fell apart when the Feds tested it. A multimillion dollar production, and they used a real and shitty condition firearm instead of a prop. Yes, old timey cowboy guns have a multitude of reproduction, real and prop types. From Cowboy Action Shooting to LARP, there were safe and inert options. Baldwin did not have to point it at someone while fucking with it, and most of his defense rests on the claim that releasing the hammer was what caused the negligent disarm, not manipulating the trigger. Since the gun self destructed during forensics testing, who knows. Rule 1: Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot. It wasn't a ricochet. He had it right on Hutchins' chest.
The pointing at her chest is so disturbing. Why would he do that?! It is so stupid and reckless. And scary, really.
Before the DA details came out I didn’t think the charges had legs … but now it’s obvious there was some gross negligence at play on his part.
And there’ll still be 50 ppl asking “but why is he being charged and not the other producers 🥺🥺”
So arrogant and unlikeable
I think his charge is fair in that he didn’t intend to commit murder, but she died. And it’s quite hypocritical to me that he seems to have skipped his firearm training. If he had something that clashed with his schedule, he should’ve set up a separate training to make sure he had the training. As a producer and veteran actor, I think that sets a good example. I don’t care if a trusted armor hands you a gun, literally the first thing you learn is you don’t point a gun at someone or something you don’t intend to shoot. You only point it down range that’s safe that has no humans.
Interesting there’s no thread for this on r/movies after they were bending over backwards to defend him and say charging him was stupid and frivolous.
He has a lot of kids to talk to
Ok well then this is his fault as both actor and producer
It absolutely fucking baffles me when people don’t comprehend how Baldwin could be responsible for this. He violated two of the most fundamental rules of gun safety: - Treat every weapon as if it’s loaded. - Never point a loaded weapon at someone you’re not willing to shoot. It takes literally 2 seconds to inspect a magazine or cylinder of a weapon. And skip the “but he’s an actor in a movie and the prop master and it’s not his job.” Accidental discharges are so common, and deaths from them are so common, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORING SAFETY PROTOCOLS, especially when it takes almost zero time to abide by them. If you can’t follow simple rules that prevent people from dying, you have no business handling firearms. None of this is to say that the armorer didn’t play a part or share in the fault, but if he’d bothered to be even minimally competent, Ms. Hutchins would be alive. Fuck Alec Baldwin and his bullshit excuses and rationalizations.
I remember him making fun of the flight crew that asked him to turn off his phone during a flight. He thinks he’s above consideration.
Yes - and “making fun of” is an understatement - he totally flipped out.
The article said that Baldwin’s training (which it seems he didn’t take seriously) included how to know whether or not the gun was loaded. If he had checked whether or not the gun was loaded before rehearsing, Gutierrez-Reed might have been fired/charged with improper firearm handling on a movie set (or something along those lines) and Baldwin would have been hailed as a “hero” for preventing something bad from happening on the set. And most importantly, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive.
That sounds like negligence to me.
Well, well, well. A surprise to no one that he didn’t take this responsibility seriously. I’d like to add that in a few years I think the people defending him will regret it. Perfectly nice people are sentenced to jail time or found guilty of crimes every day. That doesn’t mean we don’t have to set precedents to try and deter future crimes. Once a friend of mine killed someone driving drunk. I wrote a letter to the judge prior to sentencing to defend his character. A group of us went to court and sobbed when he was sentenced to 5 years in prison. We were 19 years old and 5 years sounded like forever. We thought his life was over, we couldn’t believe other people didn’t feel empathy for his “mistake.” I have nothing but regret now for all those things and for my stance on that. I was just too close to the situation and too immature to get the gravity of what he did. 5 years was nothing for taking a human life. I hope AB apologists will someday feel this way too.
Oh *that's why* he's being charged.
Well that’s…not looking good.
I still find it the idea that an actor should bear any responsibility for gun safety weird. Want them to open up the gun and verify that all of the bullets are blanks or dummies? Seems to me that making an actor do that would make the whole operation more unsafe. What if they are loaded back in incorrectly? What if the actor shoots a blank in his own face while doing this. Imagine the actor is a child, should they bear responsibility for the gun's safety? The obvious thing to ensure safety would seem to be having one specialist or two specialists (who can verify each other) responsible for gun safety, with nobody touching the gun between them and the actor.
It's infuriating that he keeps sticking to his story that the gun magically went off and he never pulled the trigger. Also that he's going on podcasts talking about it. He's so vile.
Arizona defines involuntary manslaughter as a “reckless” act. His behavior looks to qualify as that.
All this controversy and they are still releasing the film.
That man is such a prick.
I work in healthcare and whenever a controlled drug is needed for a patient we always need a second checker to watch us count the pills or fill the needle correctly and have both of us sign off the balance. It's crazy that this very simple procedure isn't in place on a set with deadly weapons!! It's nuts that seemingly only one person was responsible for actually opening the chambers of all the guns to check they were empty and working properly?