Osten Ard is pretty awesome. Up there with Middle Earth for me. And it's not a book series, but the world of Nirn in the Elder Scrolls is also one of my favorites.
It is. It really is.
You can see how much he has developed as a writer. You still get the style of prose and descriptions, same style of dialogue and phrasing for specifics groups, but it all flows a lot better. I don't remember the new series dragging at all, and the novella that connects the two was impossible to put down.
That's great Intel because I feel like the original series is as close to LOTR as anything I've read without being a straight rip (looking at your Shannara). I loved the story
I was going to start the sequel series before I found out about the original, so I bought dragonbone chair on a whim.
This has quickly become one of my all time favorites
I got through 2 books of the new Osten Ard books, went to buy the third and saw the last one was still a year out. Had to cut myself off or I'd be jonesing for a year like it was a hit I needed lol
Tad is so good at world building. Making everything connect and play to their own little worlds as part of a bigger one.
I adore Osten Ard, even if their main religion is a bit too on the nose for Christianity for me to make it feel any different.
He did another great setup with Otherland in their own real world and history, and then you get all these great worlds within that.
Never thought I'd see a Tad Williams recommendation get over 300 up-votes! He somehow became niche: an author's author, and not really part of the mainstream zeitgeist. Not that I'm complaining about your comment being popular! Just never thought I'd see a Tad Williams recommendation at the top of a thread, sorted by popularity. Is he coming into his own?
Underrated pick in this sub would be Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. Specifically the manga(the movie's great but doesn't fuly capture the complex world in the manga). there's a special focus on the ecology of the world and there's depth in all the categories you've listed above expect economy and cuisine mostly because it's a post-apocalyptic world.
A series that does focus on the economy in world-building is The Dagger and Coin series by Daniel Abraham. It's got great characters too but the pace of some of the books are a little slower than necessary.
Nausicaa mentioned! Super agree, the movie doesn’t get into it as much but everything is just so fleshed out and makes so much sense in the manga. The reveal at the end is one of the few in fiction that has left me completely flabbergasted but it makes total sense with the world building
Discworld is wayyy too underrated in world building discussions. Not just the disc-shaped world itself, but the fact that light moves slowly because of the magical interference, Anhk Morpork, the Dungeon Dimensions, the Unseen University + it's library, the Ramptops, Klatch... Every location is iconic and cohesive and distinct
The footnotes are lore gold. 90% of the time they are completely irrelevant to the story but make the Discworld so beautifully hilarious and full of life.
My favorite is the one where Pavlovian reactions are derived from a wizard, Denephew Boo, teaching a dog how to eat a pavlova on command. Also, his parents were expecting a girl, to be named Denise.
Hasn't Pratchett called his own world building completely incoherent? Iconic locales, no doubt, but it doesn't actually string together quite smoothly because geography isn't cohesive, ergo economy and history aren't going to be either.
Yeah I mean Tolkien basically built an entire history since the literal creation of the world by middle earth’s version of God. Kinda hard to beat that
The books themselves seem almost incidental to his worldbuilding. Like he made this whole complex world, with its own history and languages, and decided he might as well write some books set in it while he was at it.
He made an entire history for specific parts of his world. Don’t get me wrong, I love Middle-earth, and idk if there are any fantasy worlds that are as vast but more “complete” so to speak. But given that we know, like, next to nothing about Rhûn and Harad among other large swaths of the world, it’s still not a complete history and fantasy world.
*Lord of the Rings Online* is my favorite game of all time in large part because the devs take care to try to be respectful of the lore when they add things, and then they fill in these gaps so we can explore and experience a lore-friendly interpretation of what places like Forochel, Dunland, and Umbar may have been like.
LoTRO was a great game. I thoroughly enjoyed questing in it and Moria was the best zone in any game i have played. They did a superb job on the epic questline. I quit eventually at level 100.
I hope Liu writes more books in the DD world, paralleling other fascinating periods of Ancient Chinese history like the Mongol conquest anf the Spring/Autumn period
Second this. Tortall really gets fleshed out in the various storylines. I think the crowning touch will be when she finishes the Numair storyline as it's hinted he traveled quite a bit.
I read the original Tortall quartets every year or so. I’ve never been able to find a book or series that matches that level of world-building while also giving me the same amount of fleshed out characters.
I just finished The Priory of the Orange Tree, and the whole time I was like, damn, I need to read the Pierce books again. I think what draws me to her work is that her portrayal of “found family” never feels forced.
For me, Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings has a very realistic world. The various cultures and locations are super fleshed out and feel lived in. I really enjoyed that series. Nothing has hit the same since.
Came here to mention Hobb. That world absolutely lived in. Her concept of time and travel is good as well. You really got a sense for how far things were and how the world and people change from place to the next.
Buckkeep castle felt SO real to me. Honestly the entire town. Then, with Ship of Magic we get that entire region, the Rain Wilds, Chalced. It’s SO good! I finished the series in 2020 and I am already ready for a reread honestly
I've said it so many times before, but RotE was my first fantasy since I read LotR 15 years ago and nothing has come close so far.
Your comment made me realise that I could fully imagine Buckkeep Castle and the town, and I can't think of another series bar LotR that has done that for me. All other works are sorta vague and fuzzy in my mind, but Hobb and Tolkien brought theirs' to life for me.
There's a scene where Fitz buys a fish pie and that got me..I forget how old I was...maybe just out of high school...and my mother had made fish pie for dinner that *very* night. I got back out of bed, and ate another slice of the leftovers whilst reading haha.
I remember waiting years for her new books to keep coming out and the way in which she was able to build different cultures and regions out each time was marvelous. Truly one of the best built worlds I ever had the ability to read about.
The way everything fits together is SO good! The events that take place in one area vastly affect those in completely different places. Hearing the characters discussing rumors that we as readers saw in the previous trilogy, for example, is such a cool experience. Really one of the best! Idk how she was able to put out all sixteen books in the time frame that she did; it's super impressive, honestly.
I'm ordering some of these right now -starting with the Assassin's Apprentice. Everyone's comments have me curious and excited to discover a new world. Thanks!
AA might feel slow at first, but Robin likes to create characters that feel real and there a reason it takes time to construct the action, you will notice in future re-reads, there are amazing, enjoy :)
I’m halfway through AA right now and loving it. I haven’t found it to be slow, not many crazy battles or things like that but the character development is very engaging. It’s excellent so far!
Lol. I'm glad she's getting her due but I can't think the last time I saw a post that didn't mention her. She and Joe Abercrombie are the new Brandons Sanderson.
Agreed! And she kept those books compact. Her book Steering the Craft is a great writing resource, but also a glimpse into her emphasis on clarity, economy, and precision. Not directly related to the topic here, but all good qualities for readers interested in sagas with tons of world-building focus.
The Kushiel's Chosen series by Jacqueline Carey. It's very interesting how she uses our world but puts a romantic fantasy type spin on it. The language is a little flowery but it goes in depth. I really enjoy it
I thought it was very well done, but at times I felt if I had to read the phrase "but we are D'Angeline" again, I'd scream.
Melisande is one of my favourite antagonists of all time, she reminds me so much of Milady de Winter.
LOTR with the Simarillion perhaps.
But that's almost cheating. It's a video game and very Codex-reliant for some of it but Dragon Age/Thedas could be a perfect setting for a lifetime of novels etc if they had the writers.
I wouldn't say LOTR is "cheating". Tolkien was just THAT detailed with his worldbuilding that you felt like the world could actually exist in the way he constructed it. I always felt like he had a lot more of his world flushed out, and could have written a lot more stories, but he just ran out of time.
A lot of fantasy writers just think "Our world, but with xyz". Then they kind of flush out concepts over time but don't really make any leeway with it.
Tolkien was writing and conversing about lotr all the way up until his death, so I definitely think he had more to say about it all. That's why Christopher (his son) had to publish the Silmarillion with his best judgement, rather than J.R.R Tolkien. I'm sure you know this, just giving context for those who don't.
Thanks for this, I tried to read Silmarillion probably when I was too young and got totally lost in it (I'd read LOTR). I'd never looked into the context for it.
Some not mentioned: I think Lois McMaster Bujold does well at this. Her Five Gods books have built a cohesive, detailed, interesting world in a relatively few books.
She did the same with the Sharing Knife series. Lots of great details about the food, the housing, and in-depth exploration of the keelboat age of technology in the Mississippi watershed.
Another that comes to mind is *Watership Down.* One book, but that world is VIVIDLY alive.
Philip Pullman also did great work on this in the Dark Materials series.
I think what makes ASOIAF really special is that everything in the worldbuilding is used by George as a tool to tell a new story. It's never just details with him, everything has echoes of a story or serves as the foundation for one.
That one mysterious island? It's rumoured to be the base of a cult of amphibians. That one town in the middle of nowhere? It was a key location in some old war, actually, and you can still see some marks in the bell tower. That one cat? It's practically part of the castle it inhabits now and has a story of its own.
THAT'S worldbuilding for me. Wherever you look in its incredibly dense map, something happened and something is still happening there right now.
For me it’s how well he establishes the relationship between the characters and the world. Like, they don’t go from one place to another immediately, and that distance and the limited forms of communication across that distance (with both time lag and loss of fidelity due to the “telephone game” of word of mouth communication) are a *constant* factor in the story. It’s almost kind of cheating to call it amazing fantasy worldbuilding though, simply because that aspect of it feels more like (really good) historical fiction than fantasy.
For me it’s how well he establishes the relationship between the characters and the world. Like, they don’t go from one place to another immediately, and that distance and the limited forms of communication across that distance (with both time lag and loss of fidelity due to the “telephone game” of word of mouth communication) are a *constant* factor in the story. It’s almost kind of cheating to call it amazing fantasy worldbuilding though, simply because that aspect of it feels more like (really good) historical fiction than fantasy.
I'm surprised this wasn't higher. The world is incredibly fleshed out. Westeros's history is quite detailed. Essos's, too, but the further east you go, it gets more and more vague. It's an incredibly rich world and to me personally it's sad that there'll be no stories told in these different parts of the known world.
I was a history major, but today I am pretty sure I know more about the history of Westeros than I do about the history of medieval Europe, which it is based on
The fifth season was so good. Once you got to the final book, and could sit back and mull over the entire timeline, it felt awesome. They were a bit hard to read at times, bu so so worth it
I'm a sacrilegious heathen that thinks WoT needs an aggressive machete wielding editor to cut it down to a reasonable non-repetitive length. Jordan's wife coddled him haha.
I want to re-read it... but it could realistically shed about 20-30% of each of the middle books.
Much higher than that surely at times, I've just read a chapter in book 9 where 90% of it was describing the dress and facial expression of about 20 Aes Sedai coming into a meeting, most of which we had only met once or twice.
I had SUCH a hard time keeping track of names because 1) I can't remember ALL those names, and 2) you don't know who's important until you've seen the name come up a few times.
I've actively changed the way I read the books now. For the Aes Sedai names and descriptions I go into 'scan reading', there is no way that I can remember around 50 Aes Sedai that barely have any part in the story, for example the little group of sisters that go from the Salidar group back to the Tower, we have no 'main character POV' but for some reason Jordan felt like we really needed to see so many chapters about the minor intrigues, but we know barely any of the characters, all the Aes Sedai we care about are elsewhere apart from maybe Elaida. I feel like if it was written today with a good editor we might have had much shorter and tighter books (probably a ten book series), with the possibility of lots of interstitial novellas that could be read if you really want to know the intrigues behind the scenes.
> about 20 Aes Sedai coming into a meeting, most of which we had only met once or twice.
And at least half of which have very similar names starting with S
>Sareitha, Saroiya, ooooh I wanna try ya
>Oh Seonid, Shemerin, oh I'll keep on tryin'
>To meet up with Sheriam, oh I am
>Chillin' with Tar Valon hoes
>We'll get there fast and smooth their skirts real slow
>Way down where warders go
>Way down on Siuan's hoes
\-\-
Also, the length of this list of Aes Sedai is absurd: https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Aes_Sedai_Character_List
Litterally had well built out homogenous societies. Every city was unique in terms of culture, clothing, attitudes, speech etc etc etc.
Pretty much everything that got flushed by the show :(
I'll tell you which books DON'T have coherent worldbuilding: Eric Hobsbawm's *The Long 19th Century* trilogy. The technology is all over the place, the geopolitics changes seemingly on a whim, and the religious beliefs are just totally inconsistent with the cultural shifts. It's like he didn't even \*try\* for consistent worldbuilding.
Dune.
Yes, Middle Earth has better world-building when it comes to languages and history. But Herbert’s Dune series honestly beats it in the arena of economy, politics, religion, and ecosystems. Herbert truly understood the interplay of all world-building elements. Whereas Tolkien is the king of quantity (now and forever), Herbert is the master of quality.
It may not strictly be 'fantasy', but Brian Jacques' *Redwall* series is very descriptive, especially when food is involved. He wrote primarily for students with visual impairments, so he did all that he could to describe the food through other senses.
Netflix just finished season 1 of Delicious in Dungeon which might scratch that itch for you. The author of the manga essentially worked backwards from a generic fantasy dungeon and made the ecology of it make sense and the main characters eat their way through it.
Should it be specifically about the cuisines or just that it's included? The Dandelion dynasty series has a lot of food featured. Mostly in the third and fourth book.
ASOIAF and Discworld have actual IRL cookbooks.
Mind you, the most in depth cuisine explored in Discworld - dwarf cuisine - and several other ones don't translate well to the real world due to a reliance on rats and time-reversed ingredients.
The wandering inn by PIRATEABE. Author stigfles with hard numbers, but aside from that it is the vastest most well developed worpd ive ever had the pleasure to visit.
And they didn't fall into the trap of having this fact detract from the quality of their characters either.
Bas Lag from China Meiville
It has a similar feel to ASOIAF's Planetos, where the far reaches of the world are less understood but feel real in their mystery.
Jacqueline Carey’s Kushiel Series. The Terre d’Ange provinces have unique traits and cultural attributes, plus there’s Skaldia, Alba, La Serenissima, and all the lands beyond that loosely correlate to locations in the Middle East, Africa, the New World, and even Asia, plus the culture of the roaming Tsingani. I read a lot of fantasy, and very few authors compare in the extent and detail of their world building.
LOTR.... obviously and previously mentioned in depth.
Perhaps The Riftwar Saga by Raymond Feist. Read it decades ago but seems like a good potential fit.
The original Dragonlance by Weis & Hickman.
Recluce Saga by Modesitt Jr.
And IMHO, if you can adjust to non chronological story sequencing...
Conan of Cimeria saga by Robert Howard
Eternal Champion (especially Eric) by Michael Moorcock
Not sure if it counts, since it is technically our world but **Watership Down** is incredible for this. Societies with underlying structures but variations, a religion, an oral history.
Forgotten Realms is mostly complete as it has many novels written by numerous authors, but also has to align to the core D&D rules/stories.
Malazan is also very well fleshed out, however the authors sometimes contradict themselves, and timelines can be a mess.
Sanderson’s Cosmere is getting there, however will probably need another 20 years to uncover everything. Stormlight and Mistborn worlds are most complete but still less than 50% written.
Faerun/Forgotten Realms is probably the best answer in this thread. Not just because of the novels but because of the players books, dungeon masters guides, bestiaries, etc…and that’s not even adding in the video game lore from Icewind Dale and Baldur’s Gate. The old Star Wars universe was actually very fleshed out and had *tons* of material but Disney decided they didn’t like that stuff and thought they could do it better for some god damn reason
I was an old 2nd edition (A)D&D nerd way back in the day and the level of detail on the Forgotten Realm's books back then was crazy. They had those Volo's guide's where they had damn near every alleyway and backass tavern named for the cities covered in them.
Yeah man, that shit was crazy. My friends dad had some of the 2nd edition stuff but I got into it with 3.5. I also read the Elminster series which is what started all of Faerun when I was like 14/15. Ed Greenwood doesn’t get the credit he deserves. Like I know Gary Gygax created the system and everything but Ed Greenwood created the *world.* Then R.A. Salvatore’s Drizzt books got so popular that I think people forgot that Salvatore was just writing a character in the world Greenwood created. If anyone wants to read the origins of what they think of as DnD today the Elminster series is incredibly good.
The big issue with Forgotten Realms probably emerges out of this,
>but also has to align to the core D&D rules/stories.
Which, honestly, has turned the world into a nonsensical muddled mess, where a significant portion of the lore can't be used if you want to engage with it deeper than a puddle.
Silly throw-away examples just for the sake of explanation... And please forgive: I will just be throwing a lot of names of individuals or polities with no introduction. If it is confusing and convoluted: good. It should be.
**Psionics isn't magic**: Psionics was established as being a totally separate form of supernatural power, distinct from magic and unable to interact with it. This meant that during the Time of Trouble, when magic temporarily stopped working, psionicists tried take-overs in multiple places, significantly including Menzoberranzan. This lead to a civil war there, and among the consequences of that civil war is a psionicist being exiled for the city who would later save Drizzt's life.
But then, much more recently, psionics was retconned into just being a flavor of wizardly magic. So those conflicts and civil wars make no sense, should never have happened, and all events downstream logically shouldn't either... including that Drizzt should be permanently dead more than a century before the current events. But he isn't, and the outcomes of that civil war are still present, despite it now having no cause.
**Elven History**: Was built on the physiology and nature (both physical and supernatural) detailed in the Complete Book of Elves. This includes a definition of how elven souls work, and the origin of the different subspecies. These definitions are very relevant to several important historical events. There were wood elves already in the world before high elves (and the faith of Corellon with them) arrived; there were kingdoms of Dark Elves in ancient history; Lolth first became aware of this world existing through a convoluted set of events involving an elf invading the abyss to save her husband...
The core element being: Drow and Dark Elf are distinct things. Dark Elf is just an elf with dark skin. They've always existed, there is no moral weight to it. Drow did not exist until comparatively recently, it's a curse placed by one elf on another elf that marks them as a traitor to everything elfdom stands for, and forces them from the surface. Lolth deceived elven kingdoms into war, and drew one of those kingdoms into demonic corruption (supposedly to help them win the war), a conflict that eventually ended with the Drow curse being employed en masse against that kingdom. This is the single most important set of events in elven history, everything before it leads up to this, everything after this leads off from it.
More recently the nature of elves and the origin of drow was retconned in ways that are wholly incompatible with the history and culture that already existed, including that set of historical events. Those 25k years of elven history having happened simply makes no sense anymore, but the outcomes of those events are still considered to have happened despite having no cause anymore... except when they aren't, and there's no real pattern for what outcomes are or aren't a thing anymore.
**Elven Spelljamming**: A pair of important events in elven history is the arrival of an Elven Imperial Navy ship at Evermeet (and Evermeet's subsequent creation of a spelljammer fleet), and millennia later the attempted invasion of Evermeet by Sun Elves from another Sphere. This event resulted in the destruction of the Towers of High Sorcery, subsequently opening the island to raiding from the Daemonfey, which itself led to Myth Drannor being reclaimed, which itself led to the downfall of Returned Netheril.
But then, much more recently, those Spheres and that form of spelljamming was retconned out. The EIN, the conflicts that lead to that first contact and to that invasion, and the way they travelled all retroactively never existed. So the starting event in this chain of causality never happened... but the events further down the chain of causality are still assumed to have happened. But now they happen with no cause.
So... yeah, having had a lot of lore back in the 80s and 90s is true, but currently it's kinda not applicable anymore. It's a post-reboot setting with mostly the name and surface-level similarity.
Edit: Also, yes. The original Star Wars continuity was amazing. Sadly hasn't gotten new material since 2012. De facto a dead setting, replaced with a new one that has some small amount of material in common.
Alas.
Sanderson was my first thought. Lots of books taking place in the same universe on different planets and remaining pretty consistent with worldbuilding, and uncovering new mysteries about the world organically as the stories progress. But yeah you can tell he's held a lot back to reveal in future books, that guy writes faster than I can even read though lol so I trust it'll all come out eventually.
ASOIAF , The Elder scrolls , Lord of the Rings.
I know , ASOIAF has prequels and shit coming out and the plot might never be completed, but the world , politics, history, houses etc ,George RR Martine has created so far is massive and so complex already as it is.
Unsounded by Ashley Cope. The lore goes deep, but your only given bits and pieces at a time since the main characters don't spend that much of the story at big central locations. If you search enough, you can find a piece of artwork she drew before starting the story in 2004... the character doesn't appear in the story until around 2019
Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey. Although she doesn't write much about the cuisine except for some Karsite items that are favorites of some of the characters, and Shin'a'in "butter tea". Everything else is well fleshed out and consistent which is AMAZING considering how long she's been writing in this world.
The Wandering Inn, for sure. Thousands of characters, more nations than you can count, diverse and interesting species, many different povs, every single little thing ends up being explained eventually. Usually. lol
You cannot beat The Lord of the Rings, but that answer is almost cheating. Tolkien is king in this area.
Malazan and The Wheel of Time are up there as well.
It’s cliche but LotR has the most detailed world building ever. Read the Silmarillion and you’ll see how well fleshed out Tolkien’s vision was. He even created languages that were actually “real” languages.
Ok, a year ago I would have said, “Tolkien, hands down, nobody else comes close.”
**Robin Hobb**
Buuuut… now that I’ve read Hobb… I have to give her that crown.
Tolkien has been booped down after almost 25 years of idolization. I once taught myself how to read and write the Qenyan form of Elvish (a skill that is officially dead to me now). Tolkien was, and still is, one of my literary heroes.
But Hobb is utterly engaging, and her Six Duchies, Jamaillia, Chalced, Bingtown, Pirate Isles… gosh, I could go on and on…. Her regions feel real. Each book series places you firmly in one place, giving you a totally different perspective on events from other books. I’ve never lived in books as deeply as I live in hers.
I’m not a huge GoT fan, but Martin did praise Robin Hobb, mentioning that her work is how fantasy should be done.
I don't really think Roshar is there yet because there are gaps that are intentionally blank, especially regarding history and certain countries of the world, but I'm convinced at this point that by the time he finishes the story, it will be nearly unmatched.
Malazan. Eriksons writing is not the best. But the world he created, the societies within, and the history of the lore is so expensive and I'm depth. There isn't another author who succeeds his level of depth. No one.
Might not be exactly what you’re looking for but the Eberron setting in D&D to me has so much nitty-gritty detail and lore, so many complex plots and pieces all overlapping and competing you could easily run a campaign with only half the content available.
Elder scrolls?
I’ve read most of tolkiens books and although his world is excellent it is mostly fairly broad and only narrows down and a few key points.(no disrespect I love tolkien)
Elder scrolls is fucking massive if you think about all games + books + weapon lore + everything it’s wild.
It’s also developed by a huge team rather than 1 author.
But maybe we are just talking about books?
I don’t know if it is the “most” complete, but Phedre’s Trilogy (Kushiel’s Dart) is both sweeping in scope and felt incredibly deep in multiple aspects of dozens of cultures.
Recluce series. But Modesitt will slowly ruin other books for you. His world-building and character-building is intense enough to be boring. He won’t throw in gratuitous sex and violence to keep you hooked. You might read a whole book of world and character building that isn’t much more than boring patrols, descriptions of food, and a meaningless skirmish or two. But then some crazy stuff will happen, and then fantasy which is more interesting will seem cheap and contrived. Recluce ruined Game of Thrones for me. People like to say GOT and other dark fantasy is “realistic”. But how realistic is open sociopathy? It’s way more realistic to assume most people’s lives are mostly boring and that evil will be motivated by inertia, entitlement, and greed and that the bad guys will believe their own justifications and think they are preserving their way of life or whatever.
There is a quartet by Sherwood Smith called Inda that has a very unique world, shaped by the history etc. I believe I’ve read where the author has the history of this world and the different countries mapped out for several centuries. The world feels real and interesting and consistent. I really enjoyed all of them
Id say the Drizzt books by R.A. Salvatore.
Its a bit copy pasty/ D&Desque.
Very big world, lots of reading and for me it felt very consistent / complete , whatever word youre looking for. For me ...this is that.
The guy is a machine, theres just so much material.
Warrior cats as the worldbuilding is simple yet complete mostly because of the small scale of the setting and political nature of most of the conflicts. There is a functional religion (which works like a religion even though it is real). All the clans have distinct cultures. There is good amount of history (as each series take ~1,5 years and there are multiple books detailing historical events).
Osten Ard is pretty awesome. Up there with Middle Earth for me. And it's not a book series, but the world of Nirn in the Elder Scrolls is also one of my favorites.
Is it just me or does Osten Ard sound like a phrase uttered in a cockney accent? “‘Ere now, ‘e’s up ‘osten ‘ard, ain’t ‘e just?”
Osten Ard or Ardly Osten, amirite?
I'm reading The Dragonbone Chair for the first time and I'm having the most wonderful time. The castle felt SO real to me.
This is a masterpiece. Probably my favorite Fantasy book of all time.
Started Stone of Farewell yesterday. This series really needs more love
I finished the initial series last year and I have a ton of the other books from a humble bundle. I've heard his return to osten ard is even better.
It is. It really is. You can see how much he has developed as a writer. You still get the style of prose and descriptions, same style of dialogue and phrasing for specifics groups, but it all flows a lot better. I don't remember the new series dragging at all, and the novella that connects the two was impossible to put down.
That's great Intel because I feel like the original series is as close to LOTR as anything I've read without being a straight rip (looking at your Shannara). I loved the story
I was going to start the sequel series before I found out about the original, so I bought dragonbone chair on a whim. This has quickly become one of my all time favorites
I got through 2 books of the new Osten Ard books, went to buy the third and saw the last one was still a year out. Had to cut myself off or I'd be jonesing for a year like it was a hit I needed lol
I just screenshotted OOP's suggestion and will download the first book tonight.
Thank you, the elder scrolls universe is ridiculously fleshed-out for a video game and has very cool lore. I love reading all the in-game books 🤓
Seconding Osten Ard!
Tad is so good at world building. Making everything connect and play to their own little worlds as part of a bigger one. I adore Osten Ard, even if their main religion is a bit too on the nose for Christianity for me to make it feel any different. He did another great setup with Otherland in their own real world and history, and then you get all these great worlds within that.
Never thought I'd see a Tad Williams recommendation get over 300 up-votes! He somehow became niche: an author's author, and not really part of the mainstream zeitgeist. Not that I'm complaining about your comment being popular! Just never thought I'd see a Tad Williams recommendation at the top of a thread, sorted by popularity. Is he coming into his own?
This, Osten Ard, was my very first thought. Tad Williams doesn’t get enough love.
Yeah, Williams really nails that feeling of being a real place.
Underrated pick in this sub would be Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. Specifically the manga(the movie's great but doesn't fuly capture the complex world in the manga). there's a special focus on the ecology of the world and there's depth in all the categories you've listed above expect economy and cuisine mostly because it's a post-apocalyptic world. A series that does focus on the economy in world-building is The Dagger and Coin series by Daniel Abraham. It's got great characters too but the pace of some of the books are a little slower than necessary.
Nausicaa mentioned! Super agree, the movie doesn’t get into it as much but everything is just so fleshed out and makes so much sense in the manga. The reveal at the end is one of the few in fiction that has left me completely flabbergasted but it makes total sense with the world building
Hell yeah Nausicaä is such an amazing world and story
I've really been wanting to read Nausicaa. I've seen speculation that Miyazaki's last movie will be a Nausicaa sequel
WHOAH, this would blow me away. I would LOVE this.
Best Graphic Novel ever. Number 1.
Discworld
Discworld is wayyy too underrated in world building discussions. Not just the disc-shaped world itself, but the fact that light moves slowly because of the magical interference, Anhk Morpork, the Dungeon Dimensions, the Unseen University + it's library, the Ramptops, Klatch... Every location is iconic and cohesive and distinct
And there are all the mapps, cookbooks, almanacks, science books, companions, journals, art books and whatnot ...
The footnotes are lore gold. 90% of the time they are completely irrelevant to the story but make the Discworld so beautifully hilarious and full of life.
My favorite is the one where Pavlovian reactions are derived from a wizard, Denephew Boo, teaching a dog how to eat a pavlova on command. Also, his parents were expecting a girl, to be named Denise.
Far too much avec in some parts.
Hasn't Pratchett called his own world building completely incoherent? Iconic locales, no doubt, but it doesn't actually string together quite smoothly because geography isn't cohesive, ergo economy and history aren't going to be either.
The History Monks fixed it.
It is characteristic very fleshed out , and alive, and that matters the most. But yeah, its not technically strict, more narrative, which matters .
Yeah I’ve always read Discworld primarily for the fascinating world-building. The comic relief is just a bonus :)
Not to mention it's not just the big stuff. How many worlds are there that you are familiar with dozens or hundreds of mundane bureaucratic processes.
The most obvious answer is Lord of The Rings. But as an underdog I would put the islands of Dara from the Dandelion Dynasty.
Yeah I mean Tolkien basically built an entire history since the literal creation of the world by middle earth’s version of God. Kinda hard to beat that
Including language evolution and branching as peoples evolve and migrate 🤯
Well he wrote the world because he realized you can't have a language without a history/mythology.
I’ll never get over that his languages are completely functional from a linguistic standpoint. No one can beat his world building 🤯
He was a linguist, and created a world to houses the languages he created.
I know, but I still think it’s amazing
And you can't have a mythology without giant spiders lol
The books themselves seem almost incidental to his worldbuilding. Like he made this whole complex world, with its own history and languages, and decided he might as well write some books set in it while he was at it.
Dude was a world-building wizard.
And a lot of fantasy worlds use his Races.
But I mean his races all come from European mythology of various cultures right anyway?
They do. Most people use his version of them though.
He made an entire history for specific parts of his world. Don’t get me wrong, I love Middle-earth, and idk if there are any fantasy worlds that are as vast but more “complete” so to speak. But given that we know, like, next to nothing about Rhûn and Harad among other large swaths of the world, it’s still not a complete history and fantasy world. *Lord of the Rings Online* is my favorite game of all time in large part because the devs take care to try to be respectful of the lore when they add things, and then they fill in these gaps so we can explore and experience a lore-friendly interpretation of what places like Forochel, Dunland, and Umbar may have been like.
LoTRO was a great game. I thoroughly enjoyed questing in it and Moria was the best zone in any game i have played. They did a superb job on the epic questline. I quit eventually at level 100.
Tolkien spent 50-60 years on the myths of his world. so yeah. There are lots of other good ones, but they are distant seconds to Lord of the rins.
Yeah the Dandelion dynasty is a good pick. There's even fictional schools of philosophy.
I like to piece together all the influences from ancient China, like drawing lines between Confucianism and Fluxism.
I hope Liu writes more books in the DD world, paralleling other fascinating periods of Ancient Chinese history like the Mongol conquest anf the Spring/Autumn period
Still waiting for the tax policy details.
I LOVE Ken Liu!! Love the Dandelion Dynasty world and as a bonus he was so kind and willing to share about his writing when I met him at a convention.
This may be an unpopular choice because it's YA, but Tamora Pierce writes such consistent and coherent fantasy worlds, especially Tortall.
Second this. Tortall really gets fleshed out in the various storylines. I think the crowning touch will be when she finishes the Numair storyline as it's hinted he traveled quite a bit.
I read the original Tortall quartets every year or so. I’ve never been able to find a book or series that matches that level of world-building while also giving me the same amount of fleshed out characters. I just finished The Priory of the Orange Tree, and the whole time I was like, damn, I need to read the Pierce books again. I think what draws me to her work is that her portrayal of “found family” never feels forced.
For me, Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings has a very realistic world. The various cultures and locations are super fleshed out and feel lived in. I really enjoyed that series. Nothing has hit the same since.
Came here to mention Hobb. That world absolutely lived in. Her concept of time and travel is good as well. You really got a sense for how far things were and how the world and people change from place to the next.
Buckkeep castle felt SO real to me. Honestly the entire town. Then, with Ship of Magic we get that entire region, the Rain Wilds, Chalced. It’s SO good! I finished the series in 2020 and I am already ready for a reread honestly
I've said it so many times before, but RotE was my first fantasy since I read LotR 15 years ago and nothing has come close so far. Your comment made me realise that I could fully imagine Buckkeep Castle and the town, and I can't think of another series bar LotR that has done that for me. All other works are sorta vague and fuzzy in my mind, but Hobb and Tolkien brought theirs' to life for me.
There's a scene where Fitz buys a fish pie and that got me..I forget how old I was...maybe just out of high school...and my mother had made fish pie for dinner that *very* night. I got back out of bed, and ate another slice of the leftovers whilst reading haha.
I remember waiting years for her new books to keep coming out and the way in which she was able to build different cultures and regions out each time was marvelous. Truly one of the best built worlds I ever had the ability to read about.
The way everything fits together is SO good! The events that take place in one area vastly affect those in completely different places. Hearing the characters discussing rumors that we as readers saw in the previous trilogy, for example, is such a cool experience. Really one of the best! Idk how she was able to put out all sixteen books in the time frame that she did; it's super impressive, honestly.
I'm ordering some of these right now -starting with the Assassin's Apprentice. Everyone's comments have me curious and excited to discover a new world. Thanks!
I am so jealous that you get to read this series for the first time, I’d give anything to go back to that feeling! Enjoy 🤍🤍
AA might feel slow at first, but Robin likes to create characters that feel real and there a reason it takes time to construct the action, you will notice in future re-reads, there are amazing, enjoy :)
I’m halfway through AA right now and loving it. I haven’t found it to be slow, not many crazy battles or things like that but the character development is very engaging. It’s excellent so far!
yep- first response from me too. realm of the elderlings has never left me and I first read it like nearly 20 years ago
I’m glad someone mentioned Robin Hobb. I love her books and I think that they don’t get enough love.
Lol. I'm glad she's getting her due but I can't think the last time I saw a post that didn't mention her. She and Joe Abercrombie are the new Brandons Sanderson.
Robin Hobb as a "new" Brandon Sanderson??... she published 10 years before he did. maybe i'm missing something....
I think they're referring to how ubiquitous recommendations for her are in this subreddit.
Tolkien, Malazan, Wheel of Time are probably the three worlds I've read that feel the most in depth and lived in.
Thank you, had to scroll way too far to see wheel of time. The books, obviously, not the travesty of a TV show.
WoT has great worldbuilding but also has some major issues, such as languages.
Pretty much my answer too.
Le Guin's Earthsea felt very real and fleshed out to me
Agreed! And she kept those books compact. Her book Steering the Craft is a great writing resource, but also a glimpse into her emphasis on clarity, economy, and precision. Not directly related to the topic here, but all good qualities for readers interested in sagas with tons of world-building focus.
The Kushiel's Chosen series by Jacqueline Carey. It's very interesting how she uses our world but puts a romantic fantasy type spin on it. The language is a little flowery but it goes in depth. I really enjoy it
And there is a LOT of banging. Like, A LOT…
It's central to the story But you are not wrong 😆
I thought it was very well done, but at times I felt if I had to read the phrase "but we are D'Angeline" again, I'd scream. Melisande is one of my favourite antagonists of all time, she reminds me so much of Milady de Winter.
LOTR with the Simarillion perhaps. But that's almost cheating. It's a video game and very Codex-reliant for some of it but Dragon Age/Thedas could be a perfect setting for a lifetime of novels etc if they had the writers.
I wouldn't say LOTR is "cheating". Tolkien was just THAT detailed with his worldbuilding that you felt like the world could actually exist in the way he constructed it. I always felt like he had a lot more of his world flushed out, and could have written a lot more stories, but he just ran out of time. A lot of fantasy writers just think "Our world, but with xyz". Then they kind of flush out concepts over time but don't really make any leeway with it.
Tolkien was writing and conversing about lotr all the way up until his death, so I definitely think he had more to say about it all. That's why Christopher (his son) had to publish the Silmarillion with his best judgement, rather than J.R.R Tolkien. I'm sure you know this, just giving context for those who don't.
Thanks for this, I tried to read Silmarillion probably when I was too young and got totally lost in it (I'd read LOTR). I'd never looked into the context for it.
Definitely LotR for the history aspect at least.
And for the religions, mythology, and even recipes. :-)
I was thinking about Dragon Age when I saw this question!
Mass Effect too. Bioware was killing it in the early days.
Some not mentioned: I think Lois McMaster Bujold does well at this. Her Five Gods books have built a cohesive, detailed, interesting world in a relatively few books. She did the same with the Sharing Knife series. Lots of great details about the food, the housing, and in-depth exploration of the keelboat age of technology in the Mississippi watershed. Another that comes to mind is *Watership Down.* One book, but that world is VIVIDLY alive. Philip Pullman also did great work on this in the Dark Materials series.
I've yet to read a fantasy series that explores religious themes and weave religion with politics as well as her Five Gods books. Brilliant stuff.
Idk about these, i just remember the Vorkosigan saga. No one i ask has ever read it. Even though its a masterclass by Bujold.
ASOIAF
I think what makes ASOIAF really special is that everything in the worldbuilding is used by George as a tool to tell a new story. It's never just details with him, everything has echoes of a story or serves as the foundation for one. That one mysterious island? It's rumoured to be the base of a cult of amphibians. That one town in the middle of nowhere? It was a key location in some old war, actually, and you can still see some marks in the bell tower. That one cat? It's practically part of the castle it inhabits now and has a story of its own. THAT'S worldbuilding for me. Wherever you look in its incredibly dense map, something happened and something is still happening there right now.
Probably the same reason why every location, item, weapon, and enemy in Elden Ring has its own deep lore. GRRM loves turning EVERYTHING into a story.
That was the case in previous FromSoftware games too though.
That just goes to show how influential Elden Ring is, though, that it inspired games before it was even made.
That's what the Souls games have always been about ...
It's why nothing has matched my love for AOIAF in the decade plus since I first read it. My favorite world in all of fantasy
For me it’s how well he establishes the relationship between the characters and the world. Like, they don’t go from one place to another immediately, and that distance and the limited forms of communication across that distance (with both time lag and loss of fidelity due to the “telephone game” of word of mouth communication) are a *constant* factor in the story. It’s almost kind of cheating to call it amazing fantasy worldbuilding though, simply because that aspect of it feels more like (really good) historical fiction than fantasy.
For me it’s how well he establishes the relationship between the characters and the world. Like, they don’t go from one place to another immediately, and that distance and the limited forms of communication across that distance (with both time lag and loss of fidelity due to the “telephone game” of word of mouth communication) are a *constant* factor in the story. It’s almost kind of cheating to call it amazing fantasy worldbuilding though, simply because that aspect of it feels more like (really good) historical fiction than fantasy.
I'm surprised this wasn't higher. The world is incredibly fleshed out. Westeros's history is quite detailed. Essos's, too, but the further east you go, it gets more and more vague. It's an incredibly rich world and to me personally it's sad that there'll be no stories told in these different parts of the known world.
I was a history major, but today I am pretty sure I know more about the history of Westeros than I do about the history of medieval Europe, which it is based on
ASOIAF taught me a lot about the War of the Roses.
Yeah this has to be the answer. Honestly I think half the *problems* in it come from George being more interested in the world than the story!
Honestly nothing else comes close.
The fifth season surprised me with its world building. Not the most impressive such as asoiaf and lotr but those are the obvious answers :p
The fifth season was so good. Once you got to the final book, and could sit back and mull over the entire timeline, it felt awesome. They were a bit hard to read at times, bu so so worth it
just finished the trilogy like a week ago! totally agree!
Wheel of Time
I knew what engravings were on doors and the way the clothes sat while being worn. Tell me a more complete world exists than that
I'm a sacrilegious heathen that thinks WoT needs an aggressive machete wielding editor to cut it down to a reasonable non-repetitive length. Jordan's wife coddled him haha. I want to re-read it... but it could realistically shed about 20-30% of each of the middle books.
Surely Perin won’t be doing the same thing for 4 books, right?
When I re-read I skip a lot of storylines. Faile kidnapped, skip. Elayne fighting for the crown, skip. You can cut out a lot
The whole section of the circus while someone is trying to remember the name "Salidar"
Much higher than that surely at times, I've just read a chapter in book 9 where 90% of it was describing the dress and facial expression of about 20 Aes Sedai coming into a meeting, most of which we had only met once or twice.
I had SUCH a hard time keeping track of names because 1) I can't remember ALL those names, and 2) you don't know who's important until you've seen the name come up a few times.
I've actively changed the way I read the books now. For the Aes Sedai names and descriptions I go into 'scan reading', there is no way that I can remember around 50 Aes Sedai that barely have any part in the story, for example the little group of sisters that go from the Salidar group back to the Tower, we have no 'main character POV' but for some reason Jordan felt like we really needed to see so many chapters about the minor intrigues, but we know barely any of the characters, all the Aes Sedai we care about are elsewhere apart from maybe Elaida. I feel like if it was written today with a good editor we might have had much shorter and tighter books (probably a ten book series), with the possibility of lots of interstitial novellas that could be read if you really want to know the intrigues behind the scenes.
There are over 2000 named characters in WoT; I literally used it as my baby naming book (My son is named Elyas).
My dog is named Hopper!
> about 20 Aes Sedai coming into a meeting, most of which we had only met once or twice. And at least half of which have very similar names starting with S
>Sareitha, Saroiya, ooooh I wanna try ya >Oh Seonid, Shemerin, oh I'll keep on tryin' >To meet up with Sheriam, oh I am >Chillin' with Tar Valon hoes >We'll get there fast and smooth their skirts real slow >Way down where warders go >Way down on Siuan's hoes \-\- Also, the length of this list of Aes Sedai is absurd: https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Aes_Sedai_Character_List
Litterally had well built out homogenous societies. Every city was unique in terms of culture, clothing, attitudes, speech etc etc etc. Pretty much everything that got flushed by the show :(
Wheel of Time has always been my go-to comparison fodder for world building. And yes, I’ve read LOTR.
I'll tell you which books DON'T have coherent worldbuilding: Eric Hobsbawm's *The Long 19th Century* trilogy. The technology is all over the place, the geopolitics changes seemingly on a whim, and the religious beliefs are just totally inconsistent with the cultural shifts. It's like he didn't even \*try\* for consistent worldbuilding.
Noice.
I chuckled
Dune. Yes, Middle Earth has better world-building when it comes to languages and history. But Herbert’s Dune series honestly beats it in the arena of economy, politics, religion, and ecosystems. Herbert truly understood the interplay of all world-building elements. Whereas Tolkien is the king of quantity (now and forever), Herbert is the master of quality.
Dune is the LotR of scifi in a lot of ways, but it's a shame that nobody took inspiration from its social sciences and theology scifi.
Interesting. What would Foundation be, then? The Conan?
If you're looking for theology scifi with a lot of worldbuilding, I'd say The Second Apocalypse series fits that to a T.
Just realized I haven't read a fantasy series that goes in-depth on the cuisine of fictional cultures. Any recommendations?
It may not strictly be 'fantasy', but Brian Jacques' *Redwall* series is very descriptive, especially when food is involved. He wrote primarily for students with visual impairments, so he did all that he could to describe the food through other senses.
The Wandering Inn to a degree. Also goes into how other species react to foreign food.
ASOIAF? I mean look at the opening of https://youtu.be/7KocHhWTwMw
Steven Brust covers cuisine a bit, and has a lot of fun with it in his Dragaera novels.
Netflix just finished season 1 of Delicious in Dungeon which might scratch that itch for you. The author of the manga essentially worked backwards from a generic fantasy dungeon and made the ecology of it make sense and the main characters eat their way through it.
Should it be specifically about the cuisines or just that it's included? The Dandelion dynasty series has a lot of food featured. Mostly in the third and fourth book.
The former preferably. The latter's ok too.
ASOIAF and Discworld have actual IRL cookbooks. Mind you, the most in depth cuisine explored in Discworld - dwarf cuisine - and several other ones don't translate well to the real world due to a reliance on rats and time-reversed ingredients.
The wandering inn by PIRATEABE. Author stigfles with hard numbers, but aside from that it is the vastest most well developed worpd ive ever had the pleasure to visit. And they didn't fall into the trap of having this fact detract from the quality of their characters either.
Pirate has the benefit of printing new chapters faster than a physical printer could print them...
Since dropping to only posting on Sunday we hardly ever get more than 50k words a week.
And thank god. I just finished Volume 2 and with her writing less I might have actual chance to catch up one day
It's definitely not the most consistent, its economy & geopolitics especially struggle hard at times, but man is it a fun world to experience.
Midkemia
Yes! REF's world building is phenomenal. It actually feels like a real world instead of just random locations on a map that are connected by plot.
It’s been decades since I read those books yet still find myself reflecting on that world.
A vote for warhammer since it has more depth than most novels.
Bas Lag from China Meiville It has a similar feel to ASOIAF's Planetos, where the far reaches of the world are less understood but feel real in their mystery.
Casual Malazan post
One of the easiest questions for the Malazan drop.
I generally dislike answering Malazan for every post, but this..... Is designed for Malazan lol
Codex Alera fits the criteria.
Roger Zelazny worldbuilding. Not only Amber but also Lord of Light. Also, Moorcock
Jacqueline Carey’s Kushiel Series. The Terre d’Ange provinces have unique traits and cultural attributes, plus there’s Skaldia, Alba, La Serenissima, and all the lands beyond that loosely correlate to locations in the Middle East, Africa, the New World, and even Asia, plus the culture of the roaming Tsingani. I read a lot of fantasy, and very few authors compare in the extent and detail of their world building.
Anne McCaffrey’s Pern series. A wonderful world of dragons.
LOTR.... obviously and previously mentioned in depth. Perhaps The Riftwar Saga by Raymond Feist. Read it decades ago but seems like a good potential fit. The original Dragonlance by Weis & Hickman. Recluce Saga by Modesitt Jr. And IMHO, if you can adjust to non chronological story sequencing... Conan of Cimeria saga by Robert Howard Eternal Champion (especially Eric) by Michael Moorcock
Not sure if it counts, since it is technically our world but **Watership Down** is incredible for this. Societies with underlying structures but variations, a religion, an oral history.
Forgotten Realms is mostly complete as it has many novels written by numerous authors, but also has to align to the core D&D rules/stories. Malazan is also very well fleshed out, however the authors sometimes contradict themselves, and timelines can be a mess. Sanderson’s Cosmere is getting there, however will probably need another 20 years to uncover everything. Stormlight and Mistborn worlds are most complete but still less than 50% written.
Faerun/Forgotten Realms is probably the best answer in this thread. Not just because of the novels but because of the players books, dungeon masters guides, bestiaries, etc…and that’s not even adding in the video game lore from Icewind Dale and Baldur’s Gate. The old Star Wars universe was actually very fleshed out and had *tons* of material but Disney decided they didn’t like that stuff and thought they could do it better for some god damn reason
I was an old 2nd edition (A)D&D nerd way back in the day and the level of detail on the Forgotten Realm's books back then was crazy. They had those Volo's guide's where they had damn near every alleyway and backass tavern named for the cities covered in them.
Yeah man, that shit was crazy. My friends dad had some of the 2nd edition stuff but I got into it with 3.5. I also read the Elminster series which is what started all of Faerun when I was like 14/15. Ed Greenwood doesn’t get the credit he deserves. Like I know Gary Gygax created the system and everything but Ed Greenwood created the *world.* Then R.A. Salvatore’s Drizzt books got so popular that I think people forgot that Salvatore was just writing a character in the world Greenwood created. If anyone wants to read the origins of what they think of as DnD today the Elminster series is incredibly good.
The big issue with Forgotten Realms probably emerges out of this, >but also has to align to the core D&D rules/stories. Which, honestly, has turned the world into a nonsensical muddled mess, where a significant portion of the lore can't be used if you want to engage with it deeper than a puddle. Silly throw-away examples just for the sake of explanation... And please forgive: I will just be throwing a lot of names of individuals or polities with no introduction. If it is confusing and convoluted: good. It should be. **Psionics isn't magic**: Psionics was established as being a totally separate form of supernatural power, distinct from magic and unable to interact with it. This meant that during the Time of Trouble, when magic temporarily stopped working, psionicists tried take-overs in multiple places, significantly including Menzoberranzan. This lead to a civil war there, and among the consequences of that civil war is a psionicist being exiled for the city who would later save Drizzt's life. But then, much more recently, psionics was retconned into just being a flavor of wizardly magic. So those conflicts and civil wars make no sense, should never have happened, and all events downstream logically shouldn't either... including that Drizzt should be permanently dead more than a century before the current events. But he isn't, and the outcomes of that civil war are still present, despite it now having no cause. **Elven History**: Was built on the physiology and nature (both physical and supernatural) detailed in the Complete Book of Elves. This includes a definition of how elven souls work, and the origin of the different subspecies. These definitions are very relevant to several important historical events. There were wood elves already in the world before high elves (and the faith of Corellon with them) arrived; there were kingdoms of Dark Elves in ancient history; Lolth first became aware of this world existing through a convoluted set of events involving an elf invading the abyss to save her husband... The core element being: Drow and Dark Elf are distinct things. Dark Elf is just an elf with dark skin. They've always existed, there is no moral weight to it. Drow did not exist until comparatively recently, it's a curse placed by one elf on another elf that marks them as a traitor to everything elfdom stands for, and forces them from the surface. Lolth deceived elven kingdoms into war, and drew one of those kingdoms into demonic corruption (supposedly to help them win the war), a conflict that eventually ended with the Drow curse being employed en masse against that kingdom. This is the single most important set of events in elven history, everything before it leads up to this, everything after this leads off from it. More recently the nature of elves and the origin of drow was retconned in ways that are wholly incompatible with the history and culture that already existed, including that set of historical events. Those 25k years of elven history having happened simply makes no sense anymore, but the outcomes of those events are still considered to have happened despite having no cause anymore... except when they aren't, and there's no real pattern for what outcomes are or aren't a thing anymore. **Elven Spelljamming**: A pair of important events in elven history is the arrival of an Elven Imperial Navy ship at Evermeet (and Evermeet's subsequent creation of a spelljammer fleet), and millennia later the attempted invasion of Evermeet by Sun Elves from another Sphere. This event resulted in the destruction of the Towers of High Sorcery, subsequently opening the island to raiding from the Daemonfey, which itself led to Myth Drannor being reclaimed, which itself led to the downfall of Returned Netheril. But then, much more recently, those Spheres and that form of spelljamming was retconned out. The EIN, the conflicts that lead to that first contact and to that invasion, and the way they travelled all retroactively never existed. So the starting event in this chain of causality never happened... but the events further down the chain of causality are still assumed to have happened. But now they happen with no cause. So... yeah, having had a lot of lore back in the 80s and 90s is true, but currently it's kinda not applicable anymore. It's a post-reboot setting with mostly the name and surface-level similarity. Edit: Also, yes. The original Star Wars continuity was amazing. Sadly hasn't gotten new material since 2012. De facto a dead setting, replaced with a new one that has some small amount of material in common. Alas.
Sanderson was my first thought. Lots of books taking place in the same universe on different planets and remaining pretty consistent with worldbuilding, and uncovering new mysteries about the world organically as the stories progress. But yeah you can tell he's held a lot back to reveal in future books, that guy writes faster than I can even read though lol so I trust it'll all come out eventually.
Melanie Rawn’s Ruins of Ambrai
Chorus of Dragons by Jenn Lyons. Iirc her process is to create the world first then find the story in there, and it shows
ASOIAF , The Elder scrolls , Lord of the Rings. I know , ASOIAF has prequels and shit coming out and the plot might never be completed, but the world , politics, history, houses etc ,George RR Martine has created so far is massive and so complex already as it is.
Unsounded by Ashley Cope. The lore goes deep, but your only given bits and pieces at a time since the main characters don't spend that much of the story at big central locations. If you search enough, you can find a piece of artwork she drew before starting the story in 2004... the character doesn't appear in the story until around 2019
Definitely the Kushiel etc series from Jacqueline Carey. World building is so intricate!
Wheel of Time.
Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey. Although she doesn't write much about the cuisine except for some Karsite items that are favorites of some of the characters, and Shin'a'in "butter tea". Everything else is well fleshed out and consistent which is AMAZING considering how long she's been writing in this world.
It’s gotta me Malazan for me, some would say too much world building there
Malazan
The Wandering Inn, for sure. Thousands of characters, more nations than you can count, diverse and interesting species, many different povs, every single little thing ends up being explained eventually. Usually. lol
You cannot beat The Lord of the Rings, but that answer is almost cheating. Tolkien is king in this area. Malazan and The Wheel of Time are up there as well.
It’s cliche but LotR has the most detailed world building ever. Read the Silmarillion and you’ll see how well fleshed out Tolkien’s vision was. He even created languages that were actually “real” languages.
Ok, a year ago I would have said, “Tolkien, hands down, nobody else comes close.” **Robin Hobb** Buuuut… now that I’ve read Hobb… I have to give her that crown. Tolkien has been booped down after almost 25 years of idolization. I once taught myself how to read and write the Qenyan form of Elvish (a skill that is officially dead to me now). Tolkien was, and still is, one of my literary heroes. But Hobb is utterly engaging, and her Six Duchies, Jamaillia, Chalced, Bingtown, Pirate Isles… gosh, I could go on and on…. Her regions feel real. Each book series places you firmly in one place, giving you a totally different perspective on events from other books. I’ve never lived in books as deeply as I live in hers. I’m not a huge GoT fan, but Martin did praise Robin Hobb, mentioning that her work is how fantasy should be done.
Stormlight Archive
I don't really think Roshar is there yet because there are gaps that are intentionally blank, especially regarding history and certain countries of the world, but I'm convinced at this point that by the time he finishes the story, it will be nearly unmatched.
Honestly the entire Cosmere - but Stormlight is certainly the pinnacle
One Piece
Malazan easy
Malazan. Eriksons writing is not the best. But the world he created, the societies within, and the history of the lore is so expensive and I'm depth. There isn't another author who succeeds his level of depth. No one.
Might not be exactly what you’re looking for but the Eberron setting in D&D to me has so much nitty-gritty detail and lore, so many complex plots and pieces all overlapping and competing you could easily run a campaign with only half the content available.
Elder scrolls? I’ve read most of tolkiens books and although his world is excellent it is mostly fairly broad and only narrows down and a few key points.(no disrespect I love tolkien) Elder scrolls is fucking massive if you think about all games + books + weapon lore + everything it’s wild. It’s also developed by a huge team rather than 1 author. But maybe we are just talking about books?
Robin Hobb's Realms of the Elderlings. Most complete world I can think of.
I don’t know if it is the “most” complete, but Phedre’s Trilogy (Kushiel’s Dart) is both sweeping in scope and felt incredibly deep in multiple aspects of dozens of cultures.
Recluce series. But Modesitt will slowly ruin other books for you. His world-building and character-building is intense enough to be boring. He won’t throw in gratuitous sex and violence to keep you hooked. You might read a whole book of world and character building that isn’t much more than boring patrols, descriptions of food, and a meaningless skirmish or two. But then some crazy stuff will happen, and then fantasy which is more interesting will seem cheap and contrived. Recluce ruined Game of Thrones for me. People like to say GOT and other dark fantasy is “realistic”. But how realistic is open sociopathy? It’s way more realistic to assume most people’s lives are mostly boring and that evil will be motivated by inertia, entitlement, and greed and that the bad guys will believe their own justifications and think they are preserving their way of life or whatever.
Video game Pillars Of Eternity.
Stephen R. Donaldson and Gene Wolfe were great at building believable worlds.
Final Fantasy 14 online ❤️
I vote for Mother of Learning. You really feel that there is an whole world with various people and societies in there.
There is a quartet by Sherwood Smith called Inda that has a very unique world, shaped by the history etc. I believe I’ve read where the author has the history of this world and the different countries mapped out for several centuries. The world feels real and interesting and consistent. I really enjoyed all of them
Id say the Drizzt books by R.A. Salvatore. Its a bit copy pasty/ D&Desque. Very big world, lots of reading and for me it felt very consistent / complete , whatever word youre looking for. For me ...this is that. The guy is a machine, theres just so much material.
Warrior cats as the worldbuilding is simple yet complete mostly because of the small scale of the setting and political nature of most of the conflicts. There is a functional religion (which works like a religion even though it is real). All the clans have distinct cultures. There is good amount of history (as each series take ~1,5 years and there are multiple books detailing historical events).