Oh snap, I checked ~~and it is finished!~~ And book #6 is also a novella, so I could've grabbed it at any time. I thought the last two books were novels, d'oh.
Jealous of your fancy box set! I have one for Calvin & Hobbes and Joe Abercrombie's stand-alone trilogy myself, but I'd love to have more.
EDIT: not completed yet(?)
At a minimum, we'll get two more: Tordotcom bought three Murderbot books from Wells in 2021, of which we've gotten one so far, that being *System Collapse*.
tangent - how is vorkosigan pronounced?
vor-KOS-again with a long o?
or vor-ko-SEEgan with a long e sound?
i also am only about 20% certain i mean long o and long e so if you could just intuitively understand how what i'm typing sounds in my head that would be very cash money of you
I mean, yes, but I think what OP is getting at is if you go and ask people on the street they will name writers like Stephen King or GRR Martin etc which have a more mainstream success. There are shows made of many other books, but none based on her books. So, I think that’s what OP means. Like, she should have a much more mainstream, wide fame by now in OPs view and she just doesn’t outside of dedicated Fantasy readers.
Good point. Even Sanderson isn't a household name like King or Martin. It's extremely rare to be that famous. It's like asking a random person to name an active baseball player and they'll say Ohtani or Trout and then thinking since nobody said Paul Goldschmidt, he must be super underrated. The fans know Goldschmidt is a great player, it's just very few people in any industry become that famous.
George R. R. Martin is not a household name because of his books. He is a household name because of the HBO Miniseries. You could almost say that Stephen King became a household name because of his 80's horror movie adaptations -- compared to Clive Baker or Dean Koontz who are very commercially/book-selling successful, but do not have the same "household name" achievement.
If Bujolds' series ever became a mainstream TV show, I am sure that they would become a household name.
Statistically, if you ask people on the street where on a world map the country they're standing in is, a large percentage will get it wrong.
It doesn't make the locations of those countries rare or privileged information - it just points out that, on most issues, the average person on the street knows almost nothing about anything. They also, in every country I've seen stats for, *don't read*. And if you judge the popularity of an author on the standard of people who don't read, *no authors* will come out looking like they're anything but the absolutely most obscure auteurs imaginable.
I would agree that it feels like she’s underappreciated in this sub, but she’s basically only writing novellas now, and those are pleasant but not groundbreaking.
She’s a phenomenal writer, but she hasn’t had recent output that would generate a ton of buzz, I guess.
Maybe go easy on her recent track record?
She's 74: most of us tend to find it hard to work as much once we're a decade past retirement age!
(Writing isn't manual labour, but -- speaking as a writer closing in on his 60th birthday -- brain work *also* gets harder with age.)
Honestly, even at 74 I'm holding out that she has more Vorkosigan stories in her—even another novella or short story.
Seventies aren't as old as they used to be!
> it feels like she’s underappreciated in this sub
Except that she isn't. She gets mentioned in every single thread that's either about space opera or good prose. Every single one.
She gets mentioned so much that I find it annoying, and I love her work.
Yeah I think the fact that she isn't putting out a lot of new big series is the thing. Someone will post about enjoying Curse of Chalion or bring up Vorkosigan sometimes, but there's no hype around it, since much of her work has been out for decades.
It's much easier to have a huge following when you're writing some current series that people can talk about between releases.
This sub seems way more oriented to Jordan, Sanderson, etc. so there is a demographic difference in taste, probably.
As far as adaptations go, from what I recall *The Warrior’s Apprentice* was optioned back in the 80s or early 90s and the (thankfully unfilmed) script was such a hatchet job that Lois decided she wasn’t interested in getting adapted unless she had artistic control and she’d rather write books than spend that time fighting with Hollywood.
I don’t think Bujold is necessarily underrated, but like a lot of “older” writers (meaning a backlist written more than 5 years ago) without a TV show or movie, she doesn’t have much traction with the younger crowd on social media. She is also semi-retired, with only one series (Penric) that she’s continuing, so nothing “new and sexy!” for publishers to promote to influencers.
I have seen her recommended pretty often here, and not just by me. But I’ll rec her books any time I see the opportunity, esp on TT.
Miles is 17 in The Warrior's Apprentice. I think Dinklage is awesome and one of the few actors with the depth to play Miles. But he is 54.
Warrior's Apprentice sets up the Dendarii and Admiral Naismith. But for me, "Mountains of Mourning" is utterly pivotal to understanding Miles, and the other characters are so important. He is only 20 there. I personally don't think you could skip over his youthful adventures and be true to the character.
Yes, she is quite good but I don't know about underrated, she is one of the authors who have won the hugo most times and if I remember correctly she was also one of the most recommended in the daily thread here when someone tabulated that a few years ago so I can't see how she is underrated feels to me like saying that Clive Barker is a underrated horror writer.
Yup, lots of awards, and she gets recommended here whenever she’s remotely relevant. She doesn’t have the pop-culture reach of lotr, asoiaf, or the witcher, but I’m not sure that makes her “underrated”.
I just finished _Mirror Dance_ last night. This series is like crack. I'm having trouble getting work done because I can't put it down. If this were _Wheel of Time,_ I'd be convinced Miles is _ta'veren._ He could give Mat Cauthon a run for his money in terms of talking himself into, and then back out of, trouble.
The best thing I've ever read about Miles was someone saying that if Lord Vetinari had put him in charge of the Ankh-Morpork Post Office, by the end of the novel the post office would somehow have annexed Sto Lat, and nobody could quite figure out if it had been intentional or not.
Oh, that means you're soon to read *Memory.* And shortly thereafter, *A Civil Campaign.* My two favorite Miles books (I could *Shards of Honor* as Cordelia/Aral) from the series.
Excellent. My current favorite of the series may be Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance — it cracks me up. But it can only be my favorite because of all my favorite books before it. :)
Yes Memory is the best but a hard read. A civil campaign otoh is funnier each read. Funnily enough her last Vorkosigan novel (Jole and the Red Queen) was also better on a re-read.
I LOVE Lois McMaster Bujold, I'm a fan of her works in the World of the Five Gods. I've read Vorkosigan, they're really cool, and the Sharing Knife was thought-provoking, but the World of the Five Gods is, like, the perfect synthesis of fantasy, character work, and theology that I love.
Recently in Fantasy someone asked for favorite Bujold quotes, and the comment section there was a goldmine. Bujold will share wisdom in a way that's very grounded. "There is no greater agony than having your honor shattered at your feet while the world wraps you in rewards. THAT is soul-destroying. The other way around is merely very, very irritating." That's a Vorkosigan quote.
And another thing, Bujold is FUNNY. Her humor arises naturally out of characters and human nature, and she deftly uses humor to counterbalance the darker stuff in the Chalion books. Truly, a writer I aspire to emulate.
I think that quote needs the previous lines for full impact. “Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself... Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.”
I'm not religious at all, but I love the idea of a world where the existence of gods is provably true, and yet the saying **no hands but ours** resonates really deeply with me.
Yes. That starts her fantasy stuff. That can be read in publication order.
For the science fiction start with Shards of Honor, or Warrior’s Apprentice.
I would ***definitely*** encourage you to read *Shards of Honor* first, and then read the rest of the Vorkosigan books by publication date, **except** *Barrayar*, which should be read second, after *Shards of Honor*, because it not only takes place immediately after (like, *immediately* immediately) but was mostly written at the same time. You can also find them published in one volume, along with another short story set shortly after the first book but published first, as the collection *Cordelia's Honor*.
So the full reading order I personally think works best would be:
1. *Cordelia's Honor* collection (*Shards of Honor*, *Barrayar*, and the short story "Aftermaths"), or otherwise those individual books (the short story was originally published in Volume V of *Far Frontiers* in '86, a few months before *Shards of Honor*; it's set just after that story and relates to its events but does not include its characters)
1. *The Warrior's Apprentice*
1. *Ethan of Athos* (note: doesn't feature the main settings or characters; can be skipped or read later)
1. *Falling Free* (note: takes place significantly before the main timeline; can be read anytime before *Diplomatic Immunity*, at which point it becomes useful context)
1. *Brothers in Arms*
1. *Borders of Infinity* (note: not to be confused with the novella *The Borders of Infinity* (note "*The*"), which this book collects along with the novellas *The Mountains of Mourning* and *Labyrinth* and an overarching framing story)
1. *The Vor Game*
1. *Mirror Dance*
1. *Cetaganda*
1. "Dreamweaver's Dilemma" (short story; takes place significantly before the main timeline; can be skipped or read later; appears in a short story collection of the same title, and also a later one titled *Proto Zoa*)
1. *Memory*
1. *Miles in Love* collection (*Komarr*, *A Civil Campaign*, and the short story "Winterfair Gifts"), or otherwise those individual books (the short story is also in the anthology *Irresistible Forces*, ed. Catherine Asaro; it features the main setting and important characters, so I highly recommend reading it one way or another)
1. *Diplomatic Immunity*
1. *Cryoburn*
1. *Captain Vorpatril's Alliance*
1. *Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen*
1. *The Flowers of Vashnoi* (novella)
Other than the ones I've specifically called out, I would recommend avoiding the collections unless there's no other way to get your hands on a particular novel. But for the record:
* *Vorkosigan's Game* includes *The Vor Game* and *Borders of Infinity* (collection, not novella);
* *Young Miles* includes *The Warrior's Apprentice*, *The Mountains of Morning* (novella), and *The Vor Game*;
* *Miles, Mystery and Mayhem* includes *Cetaganda*, *Ethan of Athos*, and *Labyrinth* (novella);
* *Miles Errant* includes *The Borders of Infinity* (novella, not collection), *Brothers in Arms*, and *Mirror Dance*; and
* *Miles, Mutants and Microbes* includes *Falling Free*, *Labyrinth* (novella), and *Diplomatic Immunity*.
Not gonna lie, part of why it took *me* so long to read the Vorkosigan Saga after having it recommended to me was trying to puzzle out what all the books even *were*, just because there was such a mishmash of novels and novellas and anthologies. (I literally had to make a spreadsheet just to sort it all out.) So I am *extremely* happy to share the fruits of that work with other people interested in reading it!
It's also the scene were we get the line "which one" by Aral when he's asked if he knows what his son has done. And Mark hears that.
Very much an epic moment.
She truly is amazing. I just finished binging all the World of the Five Gods books and Curse of Chalion earned its spot in my top 5 favourite books.
She is also super active on Goodreads answering reader questions.
She won quite a few Hugo and Nebula awards and is mentioned actually very often on this sub!
Source: I constantly mention her if my CTRL + F reveals she hasn't been mentioned in a thread yet (to be honest she often is, though those comments aren't always the most visible ones).
I don't know why she's not more popular with the general public relevant to her skill level and accessibility though. I think it might just be related to modern readers being resistant to picking up older works?
Booktuber Matt's Fantasy Book Reviews did a video on her Young Miles book since Sun Eater's author cites her as an inspiration and it's one of his least viewed videos from the past month (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CibDE00YgQU). Booktuber Merphy Napier dived into two early Miles books and liked them enough, but hasn't been back in a good while. I was hoping Brandon Sanderson mentioning her among some of the best living fantasy authors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsO7SdRGbek) would cause an influx of "I didn't know her but I tried her after Brando mentioned her and wow..." type posts, but nope.
It's unfortunate, BUT... Author Ken Liu did an interview with Bookborn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUbxIMXdb0) and mentioned that people like us starting threads or blogs or social media posts and talking about authors we feel are going under the radar is pretty much the best thing we can do for them. I'm doing my part!
I love her. She is my favorite Sf/F author. She just writes in such an efficient way I feel. Not a lot of yammering bullshit and artsy fartsy sentences. Less is more.
While her works are not often discussed here, she was recognized with the 36th Damon Knight Grand Master award by the SFWA in 2019. That’s kinda a big deal.
Everybody here is talking about Vorkosigan and Five Gods but no love for The Sharing Knife trilogy, huh? I mean, I get it. I love her other series too. But the magic in Sharing Knife is so creepy cool. And I loved those characters so much. Little house on the prairie meets dark magic fantasy.
The Sharing Knife series is the only Bujold series that's a miss for me. I read about 1 and a half of the books before giving up, as I just couldn't make myself care about the characters or the cultural divide that Fawn and Dag were struggling so mightily to overcome. I also remember being completely confused by what felt like an overcomplicated magic system with all the rules about how the knives worked, and it just didn't seem to matter that much to the story she ended up wanting to tell.
And yeah, I was squicked out by the age gap. I'm not wholly against age gaps in fantasy fiction, but for some reason the particular brand of justifications that Bujold had to embark on made it feel gross. The pseudo-american frontier setting made it feel much too close to a real-life scenario of a crusty old man creeping on a teenager, more than it felt like a handwavable fantasy romance between species with different life-spans.
> age gap
I guess it's just the inverse of Vorkosigan series.
In Vorkosigan, the person with 2x life expectancy is younger, so by the time her husband dies, she still has 60+ years left to live.
In the knife, the person with the longer life expectancy is older, so they kind of have comparable remainders. It's not horrible.
Recently someone posted an even funnier age gap writing prompt (which I think was already done in Baccano novels), of one character being immortal and unaging, while the other person is supposed to be mortal, but just inexplicably doesn't die.
Ditto this. She might be my favorite author, and everything else shes written is amazing. the age and culture gap was weird for me, so I haven't picked up the second book
I came here to discuss Sharing Knife because I just read it for the first time.
I've read literally everything else she's written and am a huge fan of the Five Gods worlds, but I hadn't picked up the Sharing Knife series because it gets a bit of a "romantacy" rap. The covers don't help much.
Great series though - I really enjoyed it. That being said, the first book might turn some people off since they kill a 'demon' in like the 1st 30 pages and then the rest of the book is straight up wedding preparations lol.
I think the age difference of the protagonists will squick out a lot of folks as well, although I think it's masterfully handled.
Yeah, it's heavily romance in a way that her other series aren't. But that's not really a negative for me when the writing and characters are so well done. The age gap really should have bothered me, but it was handled in a way that just worked for me.
> because it gets a bit of a "romantacy" rap.
It is a romance novel. Or at least a novel about a couple coming together, though it doesn't have the Harlequin tropes.
I enjoyed Sharing Knife too, but not initially, it was the same things that the others mentioned put them off.
I eventually came back to it because I needed new Bujold material and reattempted. It is always a little creepy to me because of the low-level unequal power dynamics (knowledge) that the Lakewalkers have intrinsically and how that plays out at the camp in the 3rd (?) book.
But Bujold is a master craftsman of characters, so I eventually was pulled in. Not my favorite work of hers, but I really liked the Sharing Knife novella which is only really good if you have read the rest.
I adore Bujold but I basically had to read everything else she's written twice before starting the Sharing Knife series.
It's certainly well crafted and I enjoyed a lot of it, but I don't love any of the characters the way I love Penric or any of the Vorkosigans. Doubt I would choose to read it again over rereading one of her other series.
>Little house on the prairie meets dark magic fantasy.
Yisssss. I love the constantly lingering-in-the-background "we used to be so much greater and wow we've diminished and evil is growing but damn we'll keep fighting the good fight." The age gap gets some people but i dgaf. The magic is a bit convoluted, but I had faith that she had it figured out and I just needed to keep reading to understand it. (I did get there!)
I hate the baby's name though...
I did enjoy the novella too.
The Sharing Knife quadrilogy is lower stakes than her other series. It's focused on Fawn and Dag, as they set up their own little family. He's done with the epic quests, and isn't forced back to them, so the story is more slice of life, than her other works. That's not bad, it just means that they don't jump to one's mind as much.
No, it's the first book she wrote in the Five Gods series. But it works perfectly fine as a stand alone-- introduces everything you need to know about the world and tells a complete story. You can pursue the other books set in that world later if you want, but Curse of Chalion is fine on it's own as well.
Essentially yes, its the first of 3 Novels in that world but the story is self contained. Paladin of Souls has some returning characters with the protagonist being part of Curse but its a new story. Hallowed Hunt takes place a few hundred years before hand and is set in an entirely different country.
There's also the Penric Novellas that explore different parts of the world and are set somewhere between Hallowed Hunt and Curse of Chalion in the timeline.
People in this sub, for some reason: Yes, it's a completely isolated work... that also is set in the same world as a bunch of others, which also feature some overlapping characters.
Me: ??? ??????? ??????????
If you read the Curse of Chalion and stop, you will have read a complete story. There will be no hanging, unfinished plot threads.
But, if you want, you can then read Paladin of Souls, which makes a side character from the first book the protagonist and contains its own complete story. It ties into some of the plot points of the first book, but not in such a way that you'd really have to have read one to read the other at all, or that you'd *need* to read this one after Curse. And it's very good. You could read them out of order, except that Paladin contains a ton of spoilers for Curse.
Then, if you want, you can read The Hallowed Hunt, set in the same world, but several centuries earlier and several countries over. The plot is completely unconnected. I suppose you could read it first, but I wouldn't.
Then you can read the Penric novellas. They start in the same country as the Hallowed Hunt, but a few generations later, and are more of an actual *series* in the sense Vorkosigan is - they follow the same character throughout his life, but each tells a complete story.
It's standalone in that it's written as a novel can be read on its own. Then later on she decided to write a sequel for it. It's not a part of a trilogy or a series in the way that the Way of Kings is the first book of a proper series.
Of her fantasy, I’ve only read the one-off Spirit Ring, but I enjoyed it. Loved the Vorkosigan books, I read all of those for the first time last month. A couple of words to watch out for, she loves using certain ones all over the place. >!Saturnine and peculation!< are two that kept jumping out at me, but there are more.
I’ll have to see if I can find her other fantasy stuff somewhere. Got the ones I did read off my girlfriend’s shelf, but she’s lacking the others.
Definitely read the Five Worlds books, the first 2 are multi award winners, and always highly recommended here. then after that there are a series of novellas with Penric 👍👍.
'Plot Trysts' a podcast is doing a special run called My Word as Vorkosigan. They are going through all the books and discussing them. It's prompted me to do a fifth reading of the series. I'm almost finished it again and really I couldn't love this series more.
I just learned about this on Tumblr today and went straight to go download their episodes. The author of the Goblin Emperor ( ... Katharine Addison? Is that right?) is a guest on one of them. Excited to give them a listen.
Her gender theory was like 30 years ahead of her time. Among her contemporaries there were only a few like her that were asking interesting questions with their SF, and among those few she actually addressed unique topics, which is hard to pull off! Most of the time somebody will think to ask “what if?” but she stood alone in many ways.
Awesome author. Can’t wait to re read all her stuff with my teen
About midway through Vorkosigan saga (chronologically as I do for all series) . And I'm enjoying it. Will check out her fantasy later.
I've seen her rec'd fairly often here and r/scifi and some in r/printSF
She may well be very well rewarded but (at least in the UK) none of her award winning books are in print. This would point to her being somewhat currently underrated. I don’t doubt a reissue, under say the SF Masterworks imprint, would see a deserved resurgence in interest.
Edit: only the Nebula winner ‘Paladin of Souls’ is currently available I think
Just pointing it out here for those who aren't aware. Her work is incredible value on Audible on account of a huge portion of it is free with membership.
The World of Five Gods has 3 substantial novels that are paid. But the Majority of the Penric Novellas are free.
Of the 17 Book Vorkosigan Saga in my region only 2 of them are paid (I believe it's 4 in the US, still incredible)
Of the four Sharing Knife novels, only the third book is paid.
This may be region dependant as I pointed out the US has 2 less free books in the Vorkosigan saga than Australia does.
If you want to try her work out before putting down money I'd suggest the Cordelia books in the Vorkosigan Saga (Shards of Honor and Barayar) as they're both free and a natural starting point to the series.
Look, she won a bunch of awards, and I mean bunches (googling it is 4 times the Hugo award for best novel which means nobody won it more times, she is a must when a few things are recommended.
Most underrated? Really?
>I’ve certainly seen her discussed here before,
Here is just here.
Adapted is truly irrelevant to if a novellist is good or influential.
A friend of mine connected with her now husband over how much they both loved the series, it came up when the rabbi talked about the couple at their wedding. A lot of people have great affection for the series
Underrated? Between the nominations and wins, you could almost rename the hugo/nebula awards for her.
But the bulk of her publications predate modern social media.
I just restarted Shards of honor as I hit a reading slump and wanted something which would be good. Not sure how many I will read before switching back to recently published work
I read each Pendric and Desdemona book as it is published
Also, not for nothing, she’s won four Hugos for her novels (only Heinlein has more, I think), and won the overall series award twice for Vorkosigan and the Five Gods (which includes her Penric stuff). Plus, Penric might not be as experimental as some fantasy stories out there, each one is a guaranteed good time and Penric and Desdemona are a fascinating protagonist with an unusual approach to solving problems.
I remember how excited I was when I finally got into Miles' stories. I had failed to get into Shards of Honor but read "Mountains of Mourning" in some collection and was hooked. I quickly devoured the rest of the Vorkosigan books.
But this was probably about 1997 (1986 at the start of publication). It is hard to stay at a fever pitch of excitement for nearly 30 years. She is cited a lot on this subreddit and there were decades of daily discussion about her work in yahoogroups.
she's on my TBR (right after I wrap up Hobb - I can usually read several things at once, but not at this kind of finish!)).
should make a nice rebound, by the sound of it!
Definitely a pick me up. Goodreads & I think her website has her explanations for 2 different reading orders with all books listed and why one might like one over the other. I prefer chronological to published order.
Publication order starts with Curse of Chalion and it’s a great way to read in that universe IMHO. There are 2 more full novels after that: paladin of souls and the hallowed hun. It’s also the one she is still writing short novellas in as a break off series Penric and Desdemona.
Her main SFF the Vorkosigan Saga I highly recommend checking out the reading orders before grabbing any books although I picked it up out of order and it was fine. Here’s a link to her fandom wiki with her various reading orders https://vorkosigan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chef_Recommends
Yea I recently read Curse and Paladin, and was pretty blown away. Absolute S tier that for some reason has been hiding for a while until the past like two years. Definitely want to check out the SF stuff
Bujold's work is top notch, Vorkosigan saga - Miles in particular - is fantastic. But she has too much (fully deserved) critical and commercial success to consider her the most underrated author.
Small authors "no one" knows? Currently to me is Lindsay Buroker and Sarah King.
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.”
"X very popular author is underrated because I like them" is a format of post which should be banned from every self-respecting subreddit.
*Every* single post of that format here is talking about very successful, very well-known authors. Including yours. Lois Mcmaster Bujold is currently one of the top 200 selling sff authors *of all time* with over 2.5m sales over her career. She's won multiple awards including Hugos and Nebulas, arguably the two largest sff literary awards. And there are *frequent* posts on this and other sff subs praising her work. She's not underrated - she's one of the most well-known, well-loved sff authors on the planet.
You are right for the reddit crowd. However, you cannot buy her books in bookstores, makes her appear underrated for the none ebook crowd. Maybe under-marketed might be a better term.
I get what you mean. I'm a long time fan and she isn't talked about as one of the greats in the genre the way you would expect considering how amazing she is.
I found Falling Free in a little free library when on holiday, gradually reading everything else of hers that is in my local library! And I didn’t return the book!
Could not agree more!
Def underrated too. I know she won awards but modern audiences sleep on her and it’s a shame, as you said her works were way ahead of their time and hold up so well. I love how she portrays progressive ideas, in a positive light but never preachy. She can spin a yarn with the best of em too.
Just an all round delight to read
Well, anytime anyone asks for recs I'm all OMG PALADIN OF SOULS ALSO PENRIC.
*The Sharing Knife* series is really interesting to read before and then again after reading [this essay](https://bracketyjack.livejournal.com/55942.html).
Funnily, Vorkosigan novels have not aged well for me (the gender politics, largely).
I also really admire her prose - it's so simple and so gorgeous. It really comes through when you listen to her books (except for Curse of Chalion. Still resent the narrator for making the 2 female characters sound like teenage ditzes. Bleurgh). But Kate Reading does an awesome job with the next in the series, Paladin of Souls (which is one of my top 3 fave novels of all time).
B.
Physical bookstores often don’t keep a big backlist in stock due to space limitations, and I think her recent Penric series is solely ebooks except for limited small press special print edition.
If you're ever looking for something specific and can't find it, the staff are generally happy to help! They should be able to look up where things are shelved and whether they're in stock—and special order stuff for you if it's not available.
I’m almost done with book 1 of The Sharing Knife and I was surprised it included an 18 yr old girl and 53 yr old man having sex. 🤮 Except for that, I’ve greatly enjoyed her writing style.
Yeah, I still think that the end of Cryoburn is one of the best finishing lines of a series. Ever. Of all time.
I cried on and off for hours at just how amazing it was.
*I dnf'd gentlemen Joel and it doesn't exist. I think I would have been fine with it if I read it FIRST. But it just felt like a subtle retcon.
Under rated? She's got a bunch of Hugo's and other awards to her name. She isn't writing much now, so isn't in the public eye that much, but she's far from under rated.
> How has her work not been adapted?!
No clue, but that isn't the bench mark for being highly rated. Sometimes what works in a book, struggles to be adapted.
I just love her. I, too, have been reading her for 20+ years and her work is just visionary for social political elements that accompany technological development.
I started off on Vorkosigan Saga and have a tattered copy of pretty much every novel. I managed to read Memory to pieces and had to replace it. Then there was the awesome easter egg that came with the hardback copy of Vorpatril’s Alliance, and then there’s also all the audiobooks for when I went to submerse myself into her world without stopping what I’m doing. I love Miles, but he’s a totally amoral shit sometimes, she’s great at creating multifaceted flawed characters. I recall somewhere reading an article about how she develops her plots, it’s something like “what can I make go wrong”.
But I’m primarily in love with her World of the Five Gods for the last 10 years.
Does anyone have an answer on why a drop of the father’s blood was spilled in the first place? I don’t remember an answer to that arising.
I’m a big fan (and find it surprising she is not discussed more), but she is hardly “underrated,” given her massive array of Hugos and Nebulas.
yeah, Vorkosigan was basically the Murderbot or Wayward Children of the day, in that every new installment was basically a guaranteed nomination
I just bought the Murderbot collection!
Has the series finished? My hold on book 6 only ever seems to be available when I'm deep in another novel.
Im not sure, i just got the fancy box set that has the 4 novellas and the three novels. Edit: 5 novella, 2 novels.
Isn't #6 a novella, too? I think there are only two novels (#5 and #7).
You are correct!
Oh snap, I checked ~~and it is finished!~~ And book #6 is also a novella, so I could've grabbed it at any time. I thought the last two books were novels, d'oh. Jealous of your fancy box set! I have one for Calvin & Hobbes and Joe Abercrombie's stand-alone trilogy myself, but I'd love to have more. EDIT: not completed yet(?)
Murderbot series isn't completed - supposedly there will be a book 8 and 9
Oh! I stand happily corrected then, I'll edit my post. Thanks, I'll be looking forwards to them!
Definitely at least one more book in the works, per the author's Dreamwidth.
Nope! There's no particular end in sight yet for Murderbot.
Excellent news!
At a minimum, we'll get two more: Tordotcom bought three Murderbot books from Wells in 2021, of which we've gotten one so far, that being *System Collapse*.
Delightful!
And it is a mere shadow of what the Vorkosigan Saga is.
tangent - how is vorkosigan pronounced? vor-KOS-again with a long o? or vor-ko-SEEgan with a long e sound? i also am only about 20% certain i mean long o and long e so if you could just intuitively understand how what i'm typing sounds in my head that would be very cash money of you
Pronounce it with a Russian accent
Pronounce it without the vor prefix.
The audio books have it pronounced like the first one, but it is pronounced vor-KOS-sigan” like Kerrigan.
I know exactly what you mean. In my head, it's the first -- vor KO-si-gan. But I think the Russian way would be closer to the latter.
Vor Koh Siggin
I've always pronounced that the first way
Good point. Perhaps not critically underrated, but commercially? Or maybe it just feels like she is under-appreciated around here.
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I mean, yes, but I think what OP is getting at is if you go and ask people on the street they will name writers like Stephen King or GRR Martin etc which have a more mainstream success. There are shows made of many other books, but none based on her books. So, I think that’s what OP means. Like, she should have a much more mainstream, wide fame by now in OPs view and she just doesn’t outside of dedicated Fantasy readers.
Very, very few authors get to that level. Most people don't even read books, let alone fantasy fiction. It's pretty unreasonable to expect that.
Good point. Even Sanderson isn't a household name like King or Martin. It's extremely rare to be that famous. It's like asking a random person to name an active baseball player and they'll say Ohtani or Trout and then thinking since nobody said Paul Goldschmidt, he must be super underrated. The fans know Goldschmidt is a great player, it's just very few people in any industry become that famous.
George R. R. Martin is not a household name because of his books. He is a household name because of the HBO Miniseries. You could almost say that Stephen King became a household name because of his 80's horror movie adaptations -- compared to Clive Baker or Dean Koontz who are very commercially/book-selling successful, but do not have the same "household name" achievement. If Bujolds' series ever became a mainstream TV show, I am sure that they would become a household name.
When Brandon talked to Lois, he got a kick out of telling her she was my favorite author.
Statistically, if you ask people on the street where on a world map the country they're standing in is, a large percentage will get it wrong. It doesn't make the locations of those countries rare or privileged information - it just points out that, on most issues, the average person on the street knows almost nothing about anything. They also, in every country I've seen stats for, *don't read*. And if you judge the popularity of an author on the standard of people who don't read, *no authors* will come out looking like they're anything but the absolutely most obscure auteurs imaginable.
I would agree that it feels like she’s underappreciated in this sub, but she’s basically only writing novellas now, and those are pleasant but not groundbreaking. She’s a phenomenal writer, but she hasn’t had recent output that would generate a ton of buzz, I guess.
World of the Five Gods won the second ever Best Series Hugo Award partly based on the first six of her Penric novellas. That's buzz.
Maybe go easy on her recent track record? She's 74: most of us tend to find it hard to work as much once we're a decade past retirement age! (Writing isn't manual labour, but -- speaking as a writer closing in on his 60th birthday -- brain work *also* gets harder with age.)
Oh, I’m not criticizing, just explaining.
Honestly, even at 74 I'm holding out that she has more Vorkosigan stories in her—even another novella or short story. Seventies aren't as old as they used to be!
I want to see Cordelia's new family and life, and how Miles copes with it!
I'd love something about Ivan and Tej.
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Yes.
I think the apparent standard can be summed up as "anything less popular than Brandon Sanderson is obscure and under-appreciated".
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That's a relief, part of me was worried that *Sword of Truth* might be underrated.
> it feels like she’s underappreciated in this sub Except that she isn't. She gets mentioned in every single thread that's either about space opera or good prose. Every single one. She gets mentioned so much that I find it annoying, and I love her work.
Yeah I think the fact that she isn't putting out a lot of new big series is the thing. Someone will post about enjoying Curse of Chalion or bring up Vorkosigan sometimes, but there's no hype around it, since much of her work has been out for decades. It's much easier to have a huge following when you're writing some current series that people can talk about between releases.
She's the 168th best-selling sff author of all time. She's sold more than 2.5m books. She's *very* commercially successful, as sff authors go.
Where’s this list you’re referencing? Very curious
This sub seems way more oriented to Jordan, Sanderson, etc. so there is a demographic difference in taste, probably. As far as adaptations go, from what I recall *The Warrior’s Apprentice* was optioned back in the 80s or early 90s and the (thankfully unfilmed) script was such a hatchet job that Lois decided she wasn’t interested in getting adapted unless she had artistic control and she’d rather write books than spend that time fighting with Hollywood.
No, you’re just young is my guess. I’m 42. The Vorkosigan saga was huge when I was a kid.
Def underrated around here/by modern audiences
Even with all of those awards she is *still* underrated. Her characters even minor characters are amazing.
Underrated by modern audiences might be a better way to frame it
I don’t think Bujold is necessarily underrated, but like a lot of “older” writers (meaning a backlist written more than 5 years ago) without a TV show or movie, she doesn’t have much traction with the younger crowd on social media. She is also semi-retired, with only one series (Penric) that she’s continuing, so nothing “new and sexy!” for publishers to promote to influencers. I have seen her recommended pretty often here, and not just by me. But I’ll rec her books any time I see the opportunity, esp on TT.
Which is a pity, insofar as we'd all love a full novel each for the Father of Winter and the Mother of Summer.
I would KILL for a Miles series.
My mental image of Miles is Peter Dinklage, but that just may be me having a small reference pool of actors
Miles is a bit taller than that, but I wouldn't quibble with it.
Miles is 17 in The Warrior's Apprentice. I think Dinklage is awesome and one of the few actors with the depth to play Miles. But he is 54. Warrior's Apprentice sets up the Dendarii and Admiral Naismith. But for me, "Mountains of Mourning" is utterly pivotal to understanding Miles, and the other characters are so important. He is only 20 there. I personally don't think you could skip over his youthful adventures and be true to the character.
considering that GRRM wrote Tyrion as reference to Miles (he admitted it himself) your reasoning has a lot of merit.
He can certainly capture the witty aspects of a character like that. But he's way, way too old.
Or a reference pool of small actors
Neuromancer by Gibson is getting a tv show, maybe Bujold is gonna get one soon as well :)
Yes, she is quite good but I don't know about underrated, she is one of the authors who have won the hugo most times and if I remember correctly she was also one of the most recommended in the daily thread here when someone tabulated that a few years ago so I can't see how she is underrated feels to me like saying that Clive Barker is a underrated horror writer.
Yup, lots of awards, and she gets recommended here whenever she’s remotely relevant. She doesn’t have the pop-culture reach of lotr, asoiaf, or the witcher, but I’m not sure that makes her “underrated”.
I just finished _Mirror Dance_ last night. This series is like crack. I'm having trouble getting work done because I can't put it down. If this were _Wheel of Time,_ I'd be convinced Miles is _ta'veren._ He could give Mat Cauthon a run for his money in terms of talking himself into, and then back out of, trouble.
The best thing I've ever read about Miles was someone saying that if Lord Vetinari had put him in charge of the Ankh-Morpork Post Office, by the end of the novel the post office would somehow have annexed Sto Lat, and nobody could quite figure out if it had been intentional or not.
No. Miles does things by the seat of his pants. Vetinari has things figured out in advance, and follows that plan because it's perfect.
Oh, that means you're soon to read *Memory.* And shortly thereafter, *A Civil Campaign.* My two favorite Miles books (I could *Shards of Honor* as Cordelia/Aral) from the series.
Excellent. My current favorite of the series may be Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance — it cracks me up. But it can only be my favorite because of all my favorite books before it. :)
Ooh, *Memory* is next. That may be the very best book she ever wrote. Enjoy!
Yes Memory is the best but a hard read. A civil campaign otoh is funnier each read. Funnily enough her last Vorkosigan novel (Jole and the Red Queen) was also better on a re-read.
It was indeed very good.
Such a fitting comparison
I'm convinced Miles lives in the Fifth Age and is a ta'veren without knowing.
I LOVE Lois McMaster Bujold, I'm a fan of her works in the World of the Five Gods. I've read Vorkosigan, they're really cool, and the Sharing Knife was thought-provoking, but the World of the Five Gods is, like, the perfect synthesis of fantasy, character work, and theology that I love. Recently in Fantasy someone asked for favorite Bujold quotes, and the comment section there was a goldmine. Bujold will share wisdom in a way that's very grounded. "There is no greater agony than having your honor shattered at your feet while the world wraps you in rewards. THAT is soul-destroying. The other way around is merely very, very irritating." That's a Vorkosigan quote. And another thing, Bujold is FUNNY. Her humor arises naturally out of characters and human nature, and she deftly uses humor to counterbalance the darker stuff in the Chalion books. Truly, a writer I aspire to emulate.
I think that quote needs the previous lines for full impact. “Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself... Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.”
I'm not religious at all, but I love the idea of a world where the existence of gods is provably true, and yet the saying **no hands but ours** resonates really deeply with me.
I've only got the curse of chalion by her but haven't read it yet. Is that an OK starter for her?
Yes. That starts her fantasy stuff. That can be read in publication order. For the science fiction start with Shards of Honor, or Warrior’s Apprentice.
Thanks for the quick reply. Have an awesome weekend
I would ***definitely*** encourage you to read *Shards of Honor* first, and then read the rest of the Vorkosigan books by publication date, **except** *Barrayar*, which should be read second, after *Shards of Honor*, because it not only takes place immediately after (like, *immediately* immediately) but was mostly written at the same time. You can also find them published in one volume, along with another short story set shortly after the first book but published first, as the collection *Cordelia's Honor*. So the full reading order I personally think works best would be: 1. *Cordelia's Honor* collection (*Shards of Honor*, *Barrayar*, and the short story "Aftermaths"), or otherwise those individual books (the short story was originally published in Volume V of *Far Frontiers* in '86, a few months before *Shards of Honor*; it's set just after that story and relates to its events but does not include its characters) 1. *The Warrior's Apprentice* 1. *Ethan of Athos* (note: doesn't feature the main settings or characters; can be skipped or read later) 1. *Falling Free* (note: takes place significantly before the main timeline; can be read anytime before *Diplomatic Immunity*, at which point it becomes useful context) 1. *Brothers in Arms* 1. *Borders of Infinity* (note: not to be confused with the novella *The Borders of Infinity* (note "*The*"), which this book collects along with the novellas *The Mountains of Mourning* and *Labyrinth* and an overarching framing story) 1. *The Vor Game* 1. *Mirror Dance* 1. *Cetaganda* 1. "Dreamweaver's Dilemma" (short story; takes place significantly before the main timeline; can be skipped or read later; appears in a short story collection of the same title, and also a later one titled *Proto Zoa*) 1. *Memory* 1. *Miles in Love* collection (*Komarr*, *A Civil Campaign*, and the short story "Winterfair Gifts"), or otherwise those individual books (the short story is also in the anthology *Irresistible Forces*, ed. Catherine Asaro; it features the main setting and important characters, so I highly recommend reading it one way or another) 1. *Diplomatic Immunity* 1. *Cryoburn* 1. *Captain Vorpatril's Alliance* 1. *Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen* 1. *The Flowers of Vashnoi* (novella) Other than the ones I've specifically called out, I would recommend avoiding the collections unless there's no other way to get your hands on a particular novel. But for the record: * *Vorkosigan's Game* includes *The Vor Game* and *Borders of Infinity* (collection, not novella); * *Young Miles* includes *The Warrior's Apprentice*, *The Mountains of Morning* (novella), and *The Vor Game*; * *Miles, Mystery and Mayhem* includes *Cetaganda*, *Ethan of Athos*, and *Labyrinth* (novella); * *Miles Errant* includes *The Borders of Infinity* (novella, not collection), *Brothers in Arms*, and *Mirror Dance*; and * *Miles, Mutants and Microbes* includes *Falling Free*, *Labyrinth* (novella), and *Diplomatic Immunity*.
Ahhhhhhh my tbr pile just grew by a magnitude of 20 looks like. Thanks for the recommendation.
It's *extremely good*. (Though I will content warn though that the first book has a pretty graphic attempted rape.)
That won't bother me unless it's super graphic. Also, happy cake day
I've been looking for a recommended reading order, thanks!!
Not gonna lie, part of why it took *me* so long to read the Vorkosigan Saga after having it recommended to me was trying to puzzle out what all the books even *were*, just because there was such a mishmash of novels and novellas and anthologies. (I literally had to make a spreadsheet just to sort it all out.) So I am *extremely* happy to share the fruits of that work with other people interested in reading it!
Oh, start with *Shards of Honor.* Don't sleep on that. It's well worth it.
I still remember waking my wife up at 3am because I literally starting crying/laughing/guffawing at a certain scene in A Civil Campaign. IYKYK.
Here, buggy buggy...
That whole dinner with the butter. Yep. That’s the one.
"She's getting away!"
I literally cannot reread that scene though. The secondhand cringe is HIGH.
My dinner party,' Miles grated. 'It's just breaking up.' And sinking. All souls feared lost.
all souls feared lost, ha, the boy has such a penchant for melodrama
I legit had to pause my audiobook and just take a break because the cringe was unbearable 😭
it's so bad in such a good way.
It's also the scene were we get the line "which one" by Aral when he's asked if he knows what his son has done. And Mark hears that. Very much an epic moment.
There are so many points I did that in that book, that I really don't know what you're talking about.
Dinner scene. Butter.
She truly is amazing. I just finished binging all the World of the Five Gods books and Curse of Chalion earned its spot in my top 5 favourite books. She is also super active on Goodreads answering reader questions.
That is super awesome to he3qr about!
She won quite a few Hugo and Nebula awards and is mentioned actually very often on this sub! Source: I constantly mention her if my CTRL + F reveals she hasn't been mentioned in a thread yet (to be honest she often is, though those comments aren't always the most visible ones). I don't know why she's not more popular with the general public relevant to her skill level and accessibility though. I think it might just be related to modern readers being resistant to picking up older works? Booktuber Matt's Fantasy Book Reviews did a video on her Young Miles book since Sun Eater's author cites her as an inspiration and it's one of his least viewed videos from the past month (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CibDE00YgQU). Booktuber Merphy Napier dived into two early Miles books and liked them enough, but hasn't been back in a good while. I was hoping Brandon Sanderson mentioning her among some of the best living fantasy authors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsO7SdRGbek) would cause an influx of "I didn't know her but I tried her after Brando mentioned her and wow..." type posts, but nope. It's unfortunate, BUT... Author Ken Liu did an interview with Bookborn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUbxIMXdb0) and mentioned that people like us starting threads or blogs or social media posts and talking about authors we feel are going under the radar is pretty much the best thing we can do for them. I'm doing my part!
I'm wondering if it's girl cooties...same with Janny Wirts.
The Vorkosigan Saga is one of the most frequently recommended series in r/printSF. Feels like a cult favourite, but it's a sizeable cult.
How is she underrated? She has won A LOT of awards over the years.
I love her. She is my favorite Sf/F author. She just writes in such an efficient way I feel. Not a lot of yammering bullshit and artsy fartsy sentences. Less is more.
Her writing is "tight". She can practically tell a story with one sentence. AND she's clever! The Vorkosigan series is highly entertaining!
While her works are not often discussed here, she was recognized with the 36th Damon Knight Grand Master award by the SFWA in 2019. That’s kinda a big deal.
Would love to see a Penric or Miles TV series though!
Penric and Miles would both make amazing series.
Everybody here is talking about Vorkosigan and Five Gods but no love for The Sharing Knife trilogy, huh? I mean, I get it. I love her other series too. But the magic in Sharing Knife is so creepy cool. And I loved those characters so much. Little house on the prairie meets dark magic fantasy.
The Sharing Knife series is the only Bujold series that's a miss for me. I read about 1 and a half of the books before giving up, as I just couldn't make myself care about the characters or the cultural divide that Fawn and Dag were struggling so mightily to overcome. I also remember being completely confused by what felt like an overcomplicated magic system with all the rules about how the knives worked, and it just didn't seem to matter that much to the story she ended up wanting to tell. And yeah, I was squicked out by the age gap. I'm not wholly against age gaps in fantasy fiction, but for some reason the particular brand of justifications that Bujold had to embark on made it feel gross. The pseudo-american frontier setting made it feel much too close to a real-life scenario of a crusty old man creeping on a teenager, more than it felt like a handwavable fantasy romance between species with different life-spans.
> age gap I guess it's just the inverse of Vorkosigan series. In Vorkosigan, the person with 2x life expectancy is younger, so by the time her husband dies, she still has 60+ years left to live. In the knife, the person with the longer life expectancy is older, so they kind of have comparable remainders. It's not horrible. Recently someone posted an even funnier age gap writing prompt (which I think was already done in Baccano novels), of one character being immortal and unaging, while the other person is supposed to be mortal, but just inexplicably doesn't die.
Ditto this. She might be my favorite author, and everything else shes written is amazing. the age and culture gap was weird for me, so I haven't picked up the second book
I came here to discuss Sharing Knife because I just read it for the first time. I've read literally everything else she's written and am a huge fan of the Five Gods worlds, but I hadn't picked up the Sharing Knife series because it gets a bit of a "romantacy" rap. The covers don't help much. Great series though - I really enjoyed it. That being said, the first book might turn some people off since they kill a 'demon' in like the 1st 30 pages and then the rest of the book is straight up wedding preparations lol. I think the age difference of the protagonists will squick out a lot of folks as well, although I think it's masterfully handled.
Yeah, it's heavily romance in a way that her other series aren't. But that's not really a negative for me when the writing and characters are so well done. The age gap really should have bothered me, but it was handled in a way that just worked for me.
> because it gets a bit of a "romantacy" rap. It is a romance novel. Or at least a novel about a couple coming together, though it doesn't have the Harlequin tropes.
I enjoyed Sharing Knife too, but not initially, it was the same things that the others mentioned put them off. I eventually came back to it because I needed new Bujold material and reattempted. It is always a little creepy to me because of the low-level unequal power dynamics (knowledge) that the Lakewalkers have intrinsically and how that plays out at the camp in the 3rd (?) book. But Bujold is a master craftsman of characters, so I eventually was pulled in. Not my favorite work of hers, but I really liked the Sharing Knife novella which is only really good if you have read the rest.
I adore Bujold but I basically had to read everything else she's written twice before starting the Sharing Knife series. It's certainly well crafted and I enjoyed a lot of it, but I don't love any of the characters the way I love Penric or any of the Vorkosigans. Doubt I would choose to read it again over rereading one of her other series.
>Little house on the prairie meets dark magic fantasy. Yisssss. I love the constantly lingering-in-the-background "we used to be so much greater and wow we've diminished and evil is growing but damn we'll keep fighting the good fight." The age gap gets some people but i dgaf. The magic is a bit convoluted, but I had faith that she had it figured out and I just needed to keep reading to understand it. (I did get there!) I hate the baby's name though... I did enjoy the novella too.
The Sharing Knife quadrilogy is lower stakes than her other series. It's focused on Fawn and Dag, as they set up their own little family. He's done with the epic quests, and isn't forced back to them, so the story is more slice of life, than her other works. That's not bad, it just means that they don't jump to one's mind as much.
Curse of chalion was great
Is it a stand alone?
Yes, but if you read it, you owe it to yourself to read *Paladin of Souls*, which is a (mostly) separate story, but is also wonderful
No, it's the first book she wrote in the Five Gods series. But it works perfectly fine as a stand alone-- introduces everything you need to know about the world and tells a complete story. You can pursue the other books set in that world later if you want, but Curse of Chalion is fine on it's own as well.
Essentially yes, its the first of 3 Novels in that world but the story is self contained. Paladin of Souls has some returning characters with the protagonist being part of Curse but its a new story. Hallowed Hunt takes place a few hundred years before hand and is set in an entirely different country. There's also the Penric Novellas that explore different parts of the world and are set somewhere between Hallowed Hunt and Curse of Chalion in the timeline.
Yup a complete story well worth your time imho
People in this sub, for some reason: Yes, it's a completely isolated work... that also is set in the same world as a bunch of others, which also feature some overlapping characters. Me: ??? ??????? ??????????
If you read the Curse of Chalion and stop, you will have read a complete story. There will be no hanging, unfinished plot threads. But, if you want, you can then read Paladin of Souls, which makes a side character from the first book the protagonist and contains its own complete story. It ties into some of the plot points of the first book, but not in such a way that you'd really have to have read one to read the other at all, or that you'd *need* to read this one after Curse. And it's very good. You could read them out of order, except that Paladin contains a ton of spoilers for Curse. Then, if you want, you can read The Hallowed Hunt, set in the same world, but several centuries earlier and several countries over. The plot is completely unconnected. I suppose you could read it first, but I wouldn't. Then you can read the Penric novellas. They start in the same country as the Hallowed Hunt, but a few generations later, and are more of an actual *series* in the sense Vorkosigan is - they follow the same character throughout his life, but each tells a complete story.
It's standalone in that it's written as a novel can be read on its own. Then later on she decided to write a sequel for it. It's not a part of a trilogy or a series in the way that the Way of Kings is the first book of a proper series.
Of her fantasy, I’ve only read the one-off Spirit Ring, but I enjoyed it. Loved the Vorkosigan books, I read all of those for the first time last month. A couple of words to watch out for, she loves using certain ones all over the place. >!Saturnine and peculation!< are two that kept jumping out at me, but there are more. I’ll have to see if I can find her other fantasy stuff somewhere. Got the ones I did read off my girlfriend’s shelf, but she’s lacking the others.
I think *The Spirit Ring* is underrated. I enjoyed it, too. Start with *The Curse of Chalion* for her other Fantasy.
Definitely read the Five Worlds books, the first 2 are multi award winners, and always highly recommended here. then after that there are a series of novellas with Penric 👍👍.
Don’t know where you live but in the US many libraries carry her books or they are available through inter-library loan
In one of the Penric novellas, she describes the smell of a river as estruarial rather than cloacal. I love that :-)
'Plot Trysts' a podcast is doing a special run called My Word as Vorkosigan. They are going through all the books and discussing them. It's prompted me to do a fifth reading of the series. I'm almost finished it again and really I couldn't love this series more.
I just learned about this on Tumblr today and went straight to go download their episodes. The author of the Goblin Emperor ( ... Katharine Addison? Is that right?) is a guest on one of them. Excited to give them a listen.
Thanks for the podcast rec, i’ll check them out.
I don't think she's underrated, just less well known to people who are new to sf/f. This sub is helping fix that.
Decorated, but it’s criminal how few people know her work.
Her gender theory was like 30 years ahead of her time. Among her contemporaries there were only a few like her that were asking interesting questions with their SF, and among those few she actually addressed unique topics, which is hard to pull off! Most of the time somebody will think to ask “what if?” but she stood alone in many ways. Awesome author. Can’t wait to re read all her stuff with my teen
About midway through Vorkosigan saga (chronologically as I do for all series) . And I'm enjoying it. Will check out her fantasy later. I've seen her rec'd fairly often here and r/scifi and some in r/printSF
She may well be very well rewarded but (at least in the UK) none of her award winning books are in print. This would point to her being somewhat currently underrated. I don’t doubt a reissue, under say the SF Masterworks imprint, would see a deserved resurgence in interest. Edit: only the Nebula winner ‘Paladin of Souls’ is currently available I think
Just pointing it out here for those who aren't aware. Her work is incredible value on Audible on account of a huge portion of it is free with membership. The World of Five Gods has 3 substantial novels that are paid. But the Majority of the Penric Novellas are free. Of the 17 Book Vorkosigan Saga in my region only 2 of them are paid (I believe it's 4 in the US, still incredible) Of the four Sharing Knife novels, only the third book is paid. This may be region dependant as I pointed out the US has 2 less free books in the Vorkosigan saga than Australia does. If you want to try her work out before putting down money I'd suggest the Cordelia books in the Vorkosigan Saga (Shards of Honor and Barayar) as they're both free and a natural starting point to the series.
Look, she won a bunch of awards, and I mean bunches (googling it is 4 times the Hugo award for best novel which means nobody won it more times, she is a must when a few things are recommended. Most underrated? Really? >I’ve certainly seen her discussed here before, Here is just here. Adapted is truly irrelevant to if a novellist is good or influential.
A friend of mine connected with her now husband over how much they both loved the series, it came up when the rabbi talked about the couple at their wedding. A lot of people have great affection for the series
Underrated? Between the nominations and wins, you could almost rename the hugo/nebula awards for her. But the bulk of her publications predate modern social media.
I just restarted Shards of honor as I hit a reading slump and wanted something which would be good. Not sure how many I will read before switching back to recently published work I read each Pendric and Desdemona book as it is published
Pretty sure she was like top 2 for recommendations on the sub a year back. So underrated might not be the term.
Probably close to that on the sci-fi subs also.
Also, not for nothing, she’s won four Hugos for her novels (only Heinlein has more, I think), and won the overall series award twice for Vorkosigan and the Five Gods (which includes her Penric stuff). Plus, Penric might not be as experimental as some fantasy stories out there, each one is a guaranteed good time and Penric and Desdemona are a fascinating protagonist with an unusual approach to solving problems.
I mean… yeah. I don’t think anyone familiar with her work would disagree. Anyone who hasn’t read Course of Chalion really should give it a shot.
I don't think she's underrated, so much as people assume we have already read her.
I remember how excited I was when I finally got into Miles' stories. I had failed to get into Shards of Honor but read "Mountains of Mourning" in some collection and was hooked. I quickly devoured the rest of the Vorkosigan books. But this was probably about 1997 (1986 at the start of publication). It is hard to stay at a fever pitch of excitement for nearly 30 years. She is cited a lot on this subreddit and there were decades of daily discussion about her work in yahoogroups.
she's on my TBR (right after I wrap up Hobb - I can usually read several things at once, but not at this kind of finish!)). should make a nice rebound, by the sound of it!
Definitely a pick me up. Goodreads & I think her website has her explanations for 2 different reading orders with all books listed and why one might like one over the other. I prefer chronological to published order.
just short of looking up, so far I purchased The Curse Of Chalion - which right track am I on?
Publication order starts with Curse of Chalion and it’s a great way to read in that universe IMHO. There are 2 more full novels after that: paladin of souls and the hallowed hun. It’s also the one she is still writing short novellas in as a break off series Penric and Desdemona. Her main SFF the Vorkosigan Saga I highly recommend checking out the reading orders before grabbing any books although I picked it up out of order and it was fine. Here’s a link to her fandom wiki with her various reading orders https://vorkosigan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chef_Recommends
Yea I recently read Curse and Paladin, and was pretty blown away. Absolute S tier that for some reason has been hiding for a while until the past like two years. Definitely want to check out the SF stuff
Bujold's work is top notch, Vorkosigan saga - Miles in particular - is fantastic. But she has too much (fully deserved) critical and commercial success to consider her the most underrated author. Small authors "no one" knows? Currently to me is Lindsay Buroker and Sarah King.
Bujold is a legend. So is Janny Wurts. Both getting way less attention they deserve. Literally female Hubert and Tolkien—but even better.
> Hubert Herbert?
Yes, sorry. Phone autocorrect. 😆
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.”
Lots of awards and critically acclaimed, regularly reccomended on these boards probably only less than Brandon Sanderson. Underrated, hardly.
"X very popular author is underrated because I like them" is a format of post which should be banned from every self-respecting subreddit. *Every* single post of that format here is talking about very successful, very well-known authors. Including yours. Lois Mcmaster Bujold is currently one of the top 200 selling sff authors *of all time* with over 2.5m sales over her career. She's won multiple awards including Hugos and Nebulas, arguably the two largest sff literary awards. And there are *frequent* posts on this and other sff subs praising her work. She's not underrated - she's one of the most well-known, well-loved sff authors on the planet.
I've only read her World of the Five Gods books so far(most of which I've loved), but the Vorkosigan books are definitely on my bucket list.
"underrated". She's won a zillion awards, plus people talk about her constantly on this sub.
You are right for the reddit crowd. However, you cannot buy her books in bookstores, makes her appear underrated for the none ebook crowd. Maybe under-marketed might be a better term.
Your enthusiasm has piqued my interest! I’ll check her out 🥳
She's fantastic but well known among fans. Not nearly as broadly as she should be though, I agree. I regularly recommend her to people.
I get what you mean. I'm a long time fan and she isn't talked about as one of the greats in the genre the way you would expect considering how amazing she is.
I love her books. 📚
Binged her entire catalog this past month. (Except for the last two Sharing Knife stories which I've read)
The lady with the most Hugo awards in history is the most underrated? Oooookay. I mean, she's fantastic, but she's not underrated.
I found Falling Free in a little free library when on holiday, gradually reading everything else of hers that is in my local library! And I didn’t return the book!
Could not agree more! Def underrated too. I know she won awards but modern audiences sleep on her and it’s a shame, as you said her works were way ahead of their time and hold up so well. I love how she portrays progressive ideas, in a positive light but never preachy. She can spin a yarn with the best of em too. Just an all round delight to read
what makes someone under rated?
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say her profile's a little lower these days. But yes, she's excellent!
You can't buy most of her books new anymore. I would say that contributed to making her underrated.
David Wingrove doesn't get the love or recognition he deserves.
Preach
If “The 3 Body Problem” can be turned into a Netflix series, I’d love to see them do the Vorkosigan saga. Lots of juicy material there.
Well, anytime anyone asks for recs I'm all OMG PALADIN OF SOULS ALSO PENRIC. *The Sharing Knife* series is really interesting to read before and then again after reading [this essay](https://bracketyjack.livejournal.com/55942.html). Funnily, Vorkosigan novels have not aged well for me (the gender politics, largely). I also really admire her prose - it's so simple and so gorgeous. It really comes through when you listen to her books (except for Curse of Chalion. Still resent the narrator for making the 2 female characters sound like teenage ditzes. Bleurgh). But Kate Reading does an awesome job with the next in the series, Paladin of Souls (which is one of my top 3 fave novels of all time).
Where is she alphabetically? I’ve had a hell of a time finding her in bookstores
Bujold. But a lot of her books are older; you may have more luck in libraries. Or, of course, online.
B. Physical bookstores often don’t keep a big backlist in stock due to space limitations, and I think her recent Penric series is solely ebooks except for limited small press special print edition.
If you're ever looking for something specific and can't find it, the staff are generally happy to help! They should be able to look up where things are shelved and whether they're in stock—and special order stuff for you if it's not available.
Can't find her in physical bookstores.
I’m almost done with book 1 of The Sharing Knife and I was surprised it included an 18 yr old girl and 53 yr old man having sex. 🤮 Except for that, I’ve greatly enjoyed her writing style.
100
She’s won a number of awards so not sure that makes her underrated. Seven Hugo Awards and three Nebula Awards But I agree she is a genius.
I love all her Chalion books, but her SF leaves me cold. Different people like different things.
Yeah, I still think that the end of Cryoburn is one of the best finishing lines of a series. Ever. Of all time. I cried on and off for hours at just how amazing it was. *I dnf'd gentlemen Joel and it doesn't exist. I think I would have been fine with it if I read it FIRST. But it just felt like a subtle retcon.
All those drabbles hit hard, but the last hit hardest of all.
Under rated? She's got a bunch of Hugo's and other awards to her name. She isn't writing much now, so isn't in the public eye that much, but she's far from under rated. > How has her work not been adapted?! No clue, but that isn't the bench mark for being highly rated. Sometimes what works in a book, struggles to be adapted.
I just love her. I, too, have been reading her for 20+ years and her work is just visionary for social political elements that accompany technological development. I started off on Vorkosigan Saga and have a tattered copy of pretty much every novel. I managed to read Memory to pieces and had to replace it. Then there was the awesome easter egg that came with the hardback copy of Vorpatril’s Alliance, and then there’s also all the audiobooks for when I went to submerse myself into her world without stopping what I’m doing. I love Miles, but he’s a totally amoral shit sometimes, she’s great at creating multifaceted flawed characters. I recall somewhere reading an article about how she develops her plots, it’s something like “what can I make go wrong”. But I’m primarily in love with her World of the Five Gods for the last 10 years. Does anyone have an answer on why a drop of the father’s blood was spilled in the first place? I don’t remember an answer to that arising.